Transcripts For CSPAN3 The 20240703

Starts with great internet. Wow and these Television Companies support cspan2 as a Public Television service. Good afternoon. My name is doctor Matthew Costello Vice President of the David Rubenstein center for National History and Senior Historian for the White House Historical association and it is a pleasure to be with you today. I am excited for this panel and we have a great collection of talents and expertise, knowledge to approach this topic and i am excited to share the stage with three of you. But before we get to that, i would be remiss if i didnt at least add a little fun historical anecdote to this session and i did find this one and thought it was pretty amusing and maybe you will agree and maybe you wont on november 6 of 1947 president harry truman held up press conference in the oval office and in between questions that were revolving around grain exchanges and there was inflation and price controls and also the Marshall Plan and one reporter piped up, mr. President , have you seen any good movies lately . And truman answered, i never get a chance to see a movie unless they bring one to the white house and the only thing i see are newsreels and i try to go when i am not in them. So i guess that was funnier in 1947. Trumans quips touches on one subject that we will discuss with her panelist and president s and in newsreels in real life are different from the president s portrayed in tv and film and these cultural mediums educate countless americans and people around the world and in the office of the presidency and this leads to questions of accuracy, authenticity as well as how these are between history and entertainment. And joining us for this conversation today we have lilly goren, Gloria Reuben and tammy haddad. I wanted to start by having them talk little bit about their backgrounds and expertise and the perspectives that they will bring. Why dont we start and we will move down the line. I teach Political Science and political theory and gender politics it carol university in wisconsin. I have spent a lot of time in terms of my own scholarship and research as a trained theorist to look at what this teaches us a better understanding of politics and society, culture, gender. I started off doing this with regard to a guy named shakespeare who was a popular cultural writer at the time and i have evolved my scholarship in terms of paying close attention to popular cultural narratives particularly in culture and film where i am looking at a lot of the time the same way that one would look at a shakespeare play what the text is teaching us, what we understand about ourselves, our politics, society, gender, from those Popular Culture texts. I am Gloria Reuben and i am an actress and a finger and author and many of you may know me from er. And thank you. I know you are surprised and i still look the same. And im here today to talk about my per trail of elizabeth correctly in lincoln and we had a screening at the white house when president obama was in the white house and Daniel Day Lewis portrayed lincoln and Steven Spielberg directed the film. As you can imagine that trifecta and all of us involved it has deep historical dives and everything was authentic because that is the only way that daniel and tony and stephen would have it and myself included but i did have a say. But very much looking forward to tell you more about her. Hello. I am a longtime political producer and i worked at every cable channel you have every ever seen producing larry king live, the today show, msnbc and you name it and then on the side i started getting calls to consult on films and Television Series about president s and politics and maybe even these shows even through confirmations and i was actually just on capitol hill with the former director for an upcoming netflix show and i am so glad to be with all of you and dont you love this place . Isnt it great . Thank you. I am glad you can be here today and you know more about this than i do and that is why i have you on. Im looking forward for you and lightning all of us on your different experiences and i want to start first. You mentioned your role playing this role in the movie lincoln and can you tell us more about who elizabeth was and how this came about and how you prepared for it . I have not seen that in a long time and i talk about authenticity and literally that shot was taken from that scene and her life was extraordinary and she was born into slavery and her biological father was the master of the house and i am giving you a broad overview and many things happened between these markers when she was a teenager maybe 13 or 14. She was given as a wedding gift to her halfbrother so for he and his wife they left vi and went to North Carolina while elizabeth was a slave to r her brother. She was, unfortunately and very much unfortunately raped by a neighbor and gave birth to her only child george and they are now in st. Louis and elizabeth is a slave to another legitimate child and by this time elizabeth isnt just supporting her halfsister and her whole family because unfortunately her halfsisters husband isnt very good at finances but elizabeth has garnered an extraordinary list of clients and not just because of her incredible talent but because of who she was as a person and her whole energy and she was extremely graceful and she was very respectful and she dressed in her own designs and always look dutiful and always held her head high even though she had been through extreme trauma for pretty much her whole life. Eventually elizabeth really, for herself but especially for her son is diligent in becoming free and she needs to be free and she wants her son to be free and she goes to her sister and asks her sister for freedom. Her sister says yes if you pay me 1200. And now elizabeth is one of her main clients and elizabeth is so well respected in that community that this client asks other clients and these are all high Society Women and politicians and wives to raise money for elizabeth so she can get her freedom and they do so and elizabeth pays back the women who would like their money back, but the ones who gifted the money, she is very grateful to do so and her son by that time goes to a university in ohio and Elizabeth Keckley moves to washington dc and opens up her own business here in washington dc, not that far from here, 1017 12th street northwest and one of her clients immediately, because of her letters of recommendation from st. Louis garners another group of high society politicians wives as clients. One of them said to elizabeth, i would like to set up an appointment with you and the soon to be new first lady and Elizabeth Keckley meets mary lincoln and on the morning of the first inauguration of 1861 and the next day elizabeth is hired by mary lincoln to be your personal and elizabeth turns out to be her confidant. During this time, very soon after the president is sworn in and very soon after the lincolns are in the white house in february of 1862, Willie Lincoln dies of typhoid and mary lincolns arrest and its the second son of the lincolns who has died and Elizabeth Keckley is part of the Lincoln White house and os the civil war is happening at this time and mary lincoln has always been a highly emotional person and a little volatile and president lincoln is busy trying to deal with the civil war and elizabeth becomes almost that confidant and close with the lincolns and their sons but at that time it is elizabeth who consoles mary lincoln and this bonds them in their friendship that went on when the lincolns were in the white house and beyond and she is the one who prepares the little boy for the funeral and she is the one in the room with president lincoln and resident lincoln walks in and says goodbye to his dead son and six months prior to that elizabeth only son george who could pass as white, signed up to fight la for the union in the civil war. It was the preemancipation proclamation so legally because he was mixed race he was a black man but he signed up because he wanted to fight for the union and that is how much he believed in freedom and he died in his first battle and buried in a mass grave and elizabeth never was able to mourn her son and that preparing Willie Lincoln was s the connection that she made with mary lincoln and they grieved their sons together. And that was the bond that created this friendship that, please god help me that im mr making into a film and there is a book that i have the rights to and Jennifer Fleischman wrote and one of the many books i did research on and mrs. Lincoln and mrs. Keckley and the unlikely friendship of e first lady and a former slave. When i got the to audition for this role and i am embarrassed to say i didnt ha know anything about her and i had a day and a half to prepare and Steven Spielberg wants me to go on and say okay and daniel daylewis and no pressure. Great. No problem. So i google everything i can and as soon as i read that one page on wikipedia, emotionally i connected to this woman and i dont need to go into detail but i just connected to her fortitude and faith and her overcoming trauma and all of it consistently looking forward and standing up for things that need to be stood up for. So i do go on tape a day and a half later and in the scene it was clear that he wrote this particular scene because it was masterful and it wasnt one of them that ended up in the film but this scene is with mary lincoln and Elizabeth Keckley. It is almost like a monologue because she is talking about her life and the scene, and this kind of audition 101. You never bring props, but i did bring props and my instinct was i just felt like i needed to have my hands busy and i am paraphrasing what was on this page and i brought a silk scarf and a needle that was already threaded because there is no way i was going to do that so that was prepared and i am talking and again i am paraphrasing but i wanted to have my hands to do something. Because my son george, he died last year. And he fought for the union. And he was a beautiful boy. And i got the part. [ applause ] thank you. My research included many things and i read up on things and i planned and i went on and documented my research and i went to the places that were Still Standing and where she lived and where from virginia from North Carolina to virginia a few other places are now historical sites because of Elizabeth Keckley. One thing the first place i o went was here at 1017 12th street northwest at the brownstone where she lived and worked and now it is all corporate buildings and i think maybe it is one of them. It is Still Standing to this day. I took photographs of it and it was for sale at the time and i think there were lawyers offices there. I called the realtor and i said i am doing some research on somebody who lived here and super vague and this was in 2011 and i said i was wondering if maybe somebody could let me in and he gave me the code to get in the building and i wont tell you who it is. I went in and i walked through those doors where she lived and worked and the whole place needed to be redone and you could see the original brick through the wall and it was one of the most profound things, walking through that brownstone and walking on the ground where she walked and walking through the white house when we had that screening with president obama and i am not joking. It was a profound spiritual experience and i kid you not. I was meant to do this role. Again, i have three projects that i want to do before the end of my days and i dont want to sound macabre but i hope this story with her and Mary Todd Lincoln is a story that needs to be told and it isnt about slavery and it is about freedom and faith in fortitude and strength. So that is all i have. [ applause ] thank you for sharing that and also giving us sort of and i dont know about you guys but i felt like it was watching the movie in real time. It was incredible. Lets move over to you because you have a different experience, tammy. Yomeioned working as an executive, an executive producer and being involved in somany different projects and the one that i nt to focus on a little bit more was the hbo film all the way. Can you tell us a little bi more about that project and what the proceswalike and how, in your experience, how this compared to other films or projects . Bryan cranston. Come on. Did anybody see did anyone see the play . It was unbelievable. The idea of putting it on film, after it had this long, incredible history, i just felt so lucky to be connected, so what i did was take the director , jay roach, the great jay roach, and his production designers, and took them to all the rooms on capitol hill, lbjs original office there. We went out on the house floor, because the ny person that took us around, he has since left, told us the story about how they use to vote. Now, there are little buttons. You guys have probably been there. You used to walk down, and they would tap and vote by dropping it in. Just to glorias point, the more real it is the more successful. Its got to be true. Re thats how life is. Thats how it is in film. The time that these film directors and producers and stars spend looking into it and really taking the time to catch the feeling of it, even being in the cannon building, and i brought them over to the white house to the Vice President s office, and you guys probably know this, the Vice President s office, you open the door and all the Vice President s have signed it. We did that, and you could see how moved they were. Then, we went to the Vice President s balcony that looks out at the actual white house, and you can just feel the history all around you. So, thats the key thing. The other thing we do is talk to we brought them together with some of the people. There werent that many that had worked in the lbj administration, and just to hear them talk about what they were like and the families legacy, there was a little bit of a conversation about the family legacy. Its funny. When we finally did the premier here in d. C. , we did it over at the archives, and they pulled out the bill of rights. You just cant step away from the importance of the history and understanding this country, how people lived, who these people were, and what they had to face. What you are talking about, i saw the film. Honestly, its incredible that you got to make that movie. Who would watch that . I would watch that, right . But, in matthew, thats why its critical what you are doing. Its white so good everyone is here. I work on the comedy side too. I worked on veep and other shows, and comedy is even more important, i would argue. Its funnier when its completely true. Period. Have you guys heard eric speak . Theres eric, right there. When we worked on veep, they would send the scripts , and you are dealing with big people, like im dealing with big roach. Like im going to tell him to move the camera right here, or im going to tell these writers to go do this or that. You really have to think about it. We would always say, this is how it actually is. You guys decide how you want to show it. I should mention that even though our panel focuses more on film, all of our panels have also experience working and producing and researching Television Programs as well. Gloria, you were also cast as the Senior Adviser to barack obama in the showtime series, the first lady. Can you tell us more about that role . And,ha the fact that we have these two different roles, its television versus film. Tell us a little bit about that, as you have done both. Does that change your preparation or process for preparing . Well, not so much. Its the wig. I wasnt going to say anything. It was so much fun. Valerie, ms. Jarrett. I call her val. You know, its a different way of going about work because of the schedule on television. You only have so much time and you have a lot of work to do and not a lot of time. So, theres that, but also, it is a little bit more pressure to play someone who is still walking the earth, you know . You just want to get it right. But, i loved, of course, how important val, ms. Jarrett, was for the obamas, since the chicago days. E and, the kind of relationship she did have she does have with michelle and the former president. Of course, the relationships are still extremely strong until now. She is part of the obama foundation. It was a very intense time in the way that, again, the limited timeframe. Im very sensitive to energy, so it gets a little more frenetic, which is fine for the role, because that was what was going on at the time. Everything was frenetic. The process, for me, is always the same. I dive as deep as i can. I was only in a few episodes, but that doesnt matter. It just matters the quality of the content, i think. I read her autobiography. Of course, there is tons of stuff you can watch. Obviously, very different from Elizabeth Keckley. But, there is just something about her. You just cant help yourself. You have to love her. Shes got all this energy, and there is just goodness beaming out of her, and power. She has a she is the most powerful woman that has ever been in the white house. But, the monochromatic suits , the power suits, the glasses that match the suits. She is just a spitfire in every possible way. Smart as a whip, and could handle i dont know if i can say. You can say anything here. She had to deal with predominantly, these men that were very tough. Thank you. They were very aggressive. Its a shame that showtime didnt pick up a series for another year, or years. Lily, i want to turn to you now, because you are a professor of Political Science. You take a very different approach to these things. Were talking about television and film, and people who have portrayed the president and how the president is portrayed, and what our expectations of what a president is or should look like or act, and so i want you to tell our audience a little bit more . About how race and gender shape our pop culture presidencies, and i know you have a few slides. What you go ahead take that. O rgan freeman. This is a movie cadeep impact from 1988, ana lot of this research comes t of this book, which is a decade old, called women in the white a house, gender, Popular Culture and president ial politics. Who wrote that . Im one of the editors of it with justin vaughn. In any event, i was writing a paper in 2007. Obama was camped out in iowa. Hillary clintonn, clearly, she was running for president , and i was curious because i had done all this work on television and rolls and representation, and i was curious about the portrayal of the president by men of color, perhaps, and also by women. I was really looking at who would get the nomination based on what i saw popar culture. Was it molikely to be barack obama or Hillary Clinton on the democratic side 8 . I remember when morganfreeman vie about an asteroid hitting rth in 1998, called deep dd impact, and he was president of the United States. There was another movie that came out about a week after it, so they had both been green lit at the same time in hollywood, called, armageddon. Billy bob thornton played the president in that. You have asteroid hitting the earth as the narrative. In one movie, you have a black president , and in one movie you have a traditional white president , and i will go through the list of many of the white president s we know and love or despise. And, there was no controversy about the fact that Morgan Freeman was playing the president. Granted, he had already played god, so this was like a step down, maybe. But, there was a lot of controversy about the fact that two exact same narratives, that had huge budgets, were made by two different studios and came out within weeks of each other. That was the controversy, not the fact that you had an African American actor playing the president , which, at that point in 1998, you did not see that much of. As i started to do this research, i went back and looked at the deep impact issue , and again, you could talk about this question of representation because we are all used to seeing people like martin sheen, michael douglas, alan alda, Harrison Ford, kiefer sutherland, bill pullman, james cromwell, who has played the president twice, and seems to be the archetype for male leaders of some kind. And, billy bob thornton, who has also played it twice. Those are usually the folks that get cast on television or film as president s. I was looking at, we have this example, as i said, Morgan Freeman, and i was looking a little bit forward. At that point in 2007, we had dennis hayes bert on the Television Show 24 as president. You also had chris rock as president in the movie, head of state. Terry crews in a theocracy. And, at that point, you would see jimmy smith in the west wing, that we already talked about. There is an evolving category or grouping that i saw of black men or men of color who are getting into the narrative. I was looking at that, and as i was looking at that, i wenta little bit backwards, of course, as one does. Historians. There is a film from 1933 that also features a black president , but really, the first one in the contemporary period is this movie called, the man, that stars james earl jones. It iwas made in 1972. Its almost impossible to watch. It was very, very difficult to find a copy of this film to actually watch it, and i asked my friends at the library of congress to dig it up for me. Its written by r sterling, and it is, essentially, about this backbench senator, who also is a college professor, who the president dies, the speaker of the house dies, the Vice President is sick, he becomes president of the United States accidentally because all of these other people get out of the way and he is this backbench senator. Here, we have a film, 1972, where the president is a black man, accidentally in the office. I started to look at the narratives around the people who were being presented as president , aside from the white guys. Jo one i found was, you have this move with regard to featuring black men or men of color as president , who accidentally get into the job. Its a long period of time, were watching this evolve over movies and film. Like chris rock in head of state, and then you start evolving into the president , if there was a president of color, who actually gets elected. Im noting the narrative trajectory. First, there is an accidental black president or president of color, then there actually elected in the narrative as fixable fictional individuals. Theni started looking at the female if yenteen, kissr my president , which came out 1964, i ght ggestyou might want to see it, perhaps. Because, its really about fred mcmurray, who becomes the first husband his wife gets elecesidt, and she doesnelecd accidentally. She comes into the office, but in 1964, apparently, you cant be president and be pregnant together, so at the end of the film when it turns out shes pregnant, she resigns from the white house. Thats why i said, you might want to watch it, or you might not. Its a little backwards, forwards. Is that how theythght the first gentleman would dr i guess so. Exactly. All of the female characters in this movie also have very androgynous names. Its very interesting. We also see this as, again, i start to look at whats in front of me at this point in the late 1990s and into the 2000s, as we have seen in television, and you start to see, if there is a female president , like gina davis in commanderinchief, she gets there accidentally. If we look at battle star galactica, where you have a female president , she gets there accidentally. In fact, she was 42nd in line. Its scifi, but whatever. Then, of course, you have glenn close in air force one, where she doesnt actually become president. Shes the Vice President. She never signed the papers to become president when Harrison Ford is on the plane with the terrorists. Then, you have joan allen in the contender. She also anticipates that shes going to become president , but you dont actually see it. What i started to see is that ic there was this pattern. It was really fascinating, the pattern became clear to me, that African American men and men of color had become president accidentally, and that they evolved into getting elected in fiction. Women, same story. They had been moved into that office accidentally, and then, in the same way, they became, essentially, elected, as we have also seen in some subsequent television and film. Cherry jones becomes president in 24 and is elected into the office, but again, what was interesting to me was the fact that the female characters, this narrative was much more telescoped than it was for the black or people of color, men. Ultimately, when i concluded my research in 2007, i said, the likelihood is, barack obama gets the nomination and gets elected president. Political scientists dont really like to be prognosticators. But, i sort of thought i was onto something there. And so, my research was really looking at not only the representation issue, because we have seen more people who dont look like alan all the or martin sheen in fiction, which also helps us, if you are watching the show, imagine somebody who doesnt look like the 44 people who have been in that office before. Imagine what they would look like if they looked different. And, we become more used to, and possibly more accepting, of somebody who doesnt look like the 45 white guys, who have actually been in that office, s because we have imagined it. We have been on these narrative right, with people who are president of the United States in fiction, and we can think about that idea and give it some air and space to breathe, which again, i think is one of the ways that barack obama was able to present himself as part of that narrative in the early, or late haunts. That image will haunt me. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your research. One thing i was thinking about when you were talking is, of course, this is cyclical. We will continue to have elections, and do you care to take a wager or guess on what we could see on the horizon, in terms of, are we going to see a change in who could be in that type of office, aside from who are the leading candidates currently . Do you see us at another inflection point, where perhaps, we can learn more from pop culture presidencies about forecasting the next four years, eight years, 12 years . I think as art and life go back and forward, as we were talking about,dw and the fact that we have an elected Vice President , who happens to be a woman and a person of color, suggests that some of the groundwork was laid in ways by having them becomefr a little more normalized. D. We saw sarah palin run for vice resident in 2008. We have seen, in fact, women running for president more frequently now. Also, individuals of color, both men and women running for president more than we had, not only previous to obama, but to some degree, previous to having the idea of who occupies that space, that iconic space in our imagination. Who can be in that space and have it be more normalized . May i Say Something . I was going to run for president , but i was born in canada, so i cant. Im a dual citizen. Even more than that, i swear way too much. I curse all the time. I would never last a day. You can run for congress instead. This is a question for all the panelists. Feel free to respond to the questionf or to one anothers responses, but one thing i was struck by is how we, as moviegoers, have changed our Consumption Habits for film with the mall rise of multiple streaming services, more and more people are watching movies at home. That trend was accelerated by the pandemic. How do you foresee this impacting the Film Industry and the types of movies or shows that are being produced, and how could that impact portrayals of the presidency . Vi i guess, getting into more of the dynamics. Earlier, we talked about studios, what they decide to make, how much that should reflect reality or not reflect reality, and how is the moviegoer experience, now that its changing, how will that impact the movies and shows we see . If i may jump in here, because of covid, obviously, everybody has changed their habits, movie viewing and streaming Television Shows. Some of you may know there is a Writers Strike going on right now on this very issue. It has changed the landscape financially for writers and actors as well. There are handful of the mega streamers, we all know who they are. The e production values are hug they are making a lot of money, but its not trickling down. On that front, actual Movie Theaters, they are still around. Some didnt make it, but there is that love of going to the movies. Personally, as someone who has been in this business for a very long time, there are couple of things that play. Economic disparity happens all the time s in movies and television. You may not think it does, but it happens all the time. Theres that. Secondly, people everybody is always going to love going to the movies. But now, streaming is here to say stay, for sure. En personally, if a film opens up in the theaters first for maybe three months or something, then its available on one of the major streamers, awesome, because the audience gets a choice of either going to the movies and having that communal experience, and for me, it stays with me. You cant pause. You are there and you have to be committed to the story. I love that. It stays with you longer than streaming. mind you, streaming has its benefits as well. Now, there is a new Television Show, speaking of streaming. Its called the diplomat. Did you talk about that earlier . Its a great series. Shes amazing. She is always incredible. Im not going to say what happens, but there is this possibility of becoming president. Im not going to say how that happens. To your question about, how is media changing, im curious to see the second season, how that does progress, if it does. But, movies are here to stay. Support your Movie Theaters, please. Continue to enjoy streaming. We can have the best of both, but its important to support the actual movie cinemas. And, pay the writers and actors. Yes. Again, we are talking a little bit before. O i dont know if anyone has seen the First Episode of white house plumbers on hbo. It was on sunday night. See it when you get home. It was on sunday night. Its the story of watergate, the watergate plumbers. Its funny, matthew, because its always a surprise to me, even though i am in d. C. Forever, how much people are interested in washington. These are some of the veep writers, curb your enthusiasm, and they have this story. Watergate. You have like 15 books about watergate. There are so many books, but they found a story that had never been told about the plumbers, who actually had broken into the offices four times. They were arrested, and it was the whole story was because of the plumbers. But, no one focused on it. There are so many stories to tell. The thing that i worry about is, for example, plumbers, is six or seven episodes, a limited series. There arent that many films, tv films anymore, like lbj as a film. I would think hbo would make it today, but you have to do it in a series, because you have to amortize your costs. It changes the production. And, i watched the diplomat last night. The interest in political shows, in president s and people of power, that interest is still there. Again, im a cable news producer too, but i think people are interested in washington. They see how what happens at the white house impacts them directly. Its not separate. If you think of the pillars of leadership, and the pillars of democracy, you are talking about government, media, and this past weekend was the white house correspondence weekend, and Bradley Whitford was here. Of course, from west wing. People were lining up to talk to him, because they felt something. Its just like, you mesmerize all of us. The feeling that you get when youre watching the shows togetherth and you connect and hear these stories, thats what is still so important. I agree with you about going to the theater. Im worried about people not going to the theaters, but i think there is still a lot of power in it, and its increasing, because people want to know, whats it like behind thescenes . I think. Watch plumbers tonight. Justin thoreau grew up in washington. He was never at the white house. For many of us that have access and come here, Woody Harrelson he was in game change. People find it really compelling. S even if you have this amazing career, to learn about how things happen. I would just add, in terms of what gloria was also saying, the ideas of the narrative revolving, and we saw this in madam secretary, where Elizabeth Mccoy becomes president in the last season of that show. Weve seen it with regard to veep, obviously. And so, you do have these narratives that also can expand. Thats one of the issues, the differences, when i talk about this in an academic way, you tell a threehour story or two hour story in a film, but you can tell a 13 hour story in a series. Sometimes, they have a couple episodes too many. Thats all in the set up. I know. Night agent couldve been three episodes or less. Ive never heard of night agent. Did you guys see that on amazon . I never heard the language, night agent, at the white house. Its actually really good. They are doing a second season. I do think there are different narratives that get told in different spaces, and so, absolutely, going to the movies, because it is also an encapsulated story, whereas we were talking about the fact, we had the reunion of the west wing earlier this morning, and the west wing went on for seven seasons. They were 23 to 24 episode seasons. You got to know all the characters really well, and thats a different experience, in terms of following the narrative, where you are watching it. Maybe you get up and go get something to drink and come back, whereas if you are in the Movie Theater, you are there and you are in it. I think that is emotionally different, and that pushes on different parts of our understanding of these cultural artifacts as well. Its interesting, because there are so many ways to get distracted. You are watching something at home,fu there are always phones and ipads and children and all kinds of things. If you are in a Movie Theater, you are focused on that screen. Its funny you bring up two screens, because scandal, another political show, was the first show that played to screens. All the actors were tweeting. They were the first ones. They were the first ones that showed the truman balcony. Shonda rhymes got barack obama to take her up there. I think we can all agree that we, certainly, need a movie or series on Elizabeth Keckley. Thats for sure. We get that as a movie, and then we can all go to the Movie Theater together. We do have some time for audience q a. Anyone . Anyone in the back over here . Thank you. My question is about portrayal of atrocities. Steven spielberg, for instance, has done a lot of movies where he talks about the holocaust and how it changes the messaging for the masses in supporting things like the u. S. Commission on the holocaust or different things. When it comes to slavery and president s, that message does not get through, which is the reason why as an activist, whent we talk about slavery and the need for a proposed u. S. Commission on slavery, we are not able to get it through, because Popular Culture does not present it in that way. Do you feel when there is too much of a friendship it makes it seem like it just wasnt there the way it was there . For instance, between mary lincoln and Elizabeth Keckley. Thank you. I dont know if my question makes sense. Im a little confused on your question. Are you asking if the friendship between elizabeth and mary lincoln diffuse the issue of racism . Not racism, specifically, of slavery. And also, the other part of the question is, when atrocities around the world are per trade in Popular Culture, americans, we can feel the pain, we can understand, we can support policies. I gave the example of the holocaust. When it comes to slavery, we are not getting that same sentiment. I understand what youre saying. I think they are two separate things here, for me to comment on. In terms of the atrocity, clearly, of slavery, there are some extraordinary films that are very factual and extremely disturbing and unforgettable. When it comes to slavery in times of certain president s, during those years, i dont recall any, but i dont know every single film that was ever made. I dont know how it would, obviously, depend on how one goes about telling that story, because i would think we pretty much know the Broad Strokes, if you will. Ki so, how do you bring it into the personal story of one particular president , who is dealing with something specific . I dont know if im making much sense. If you can narrow it down to the individual r,stories, that can be a compelling thing. The Broad Strokes of it are little more investment i would think, im not a filmmaker, but i think they would be more challenging to write and portray. But, ive never thought about it in depth. Perhaps, there is an opportunity there. When it comes to Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln, obviously, during that time, of course, the emancipation proclamation happened during the lincoln presidency, as did the passing of the 13th amendment. In lincoln, that seen with Elizabeth Keckley and mary lincoln in the house of representatives really happened. Elizabeth keckley was really there. In this story, again, its Elizabeth Keckleys life, but obviously, those two extremely u vital instances will be a part of the storytelling. This is not a biopic on Elizabeth Keckley. Take note as well, part of the story im going to be presenting in this film is the influx of numerous slaves were being freed in certain states, and there was an influx of freed slaves, newly freeds gaze slaves, and Elizabeth Keckley started a foundation, a nonprofit to help these newly freed slaves, the contraband association. One of the things i see in my head is her walking. She would go through these camps and talk to some of these freed slaves, and this is documented. This is part of what she did. The response was varied from, i want to go back because i had a roof over my head and food to, im so glad im free, to the country owes me everything now. Thats the scope, and that will be part of the story as well. Those are very specific, but very important things, the emancipation proclamation, the 13th amendment, and what was happening to the newly freed slaves, what they were thinking during that time. I dont know if that answers your question. But, i hope its helpful. Stories, there is always a story to be told. It has to be specific, and it has to be the personal story, of how its connected to the bigger issue. Thats what keeps in peoples minds. Ssion and hardly penniles, you know, as they have mentioned. And the talked about their perspective of the film and the president. Im we have benefited from this k beautiful session and all the panelists. They have mentioned and talked about their perspective. Im pakistaniamerican. I came to see the realization of american president s dreams, but at this time, what i see, how the films are bringing the perspective of the founding fathers, sometimes i feel that its not the same, because when i moved to america 35 years back, i had the great images of those people, the president s. And, i want to see in the film, the same thing, because according to the founding spirit of america, we have to see how failure is serving america. When we go outside of america, people ask, what is america . Because, social media, definitely, has brought so many things. But, so many distorted things. Its not something that is a true story of america. The true story of america, we can learn from the great perspectives of founding fathers. I believe that you people are doing a great job, specifically, when i was hearing you. You are bringing your, not only your words, your true perspective, and thank you very much. I wish to congratulate the historical association. Thank you very much. This is dr. Cosby, and im also serving on the first tourism channel. Thank you for your comment. Im dr. John wellen. Im the Vice President of the Lincoln Group of d. C. , and i wanted to complement you on your portrayal of Elizabeth Keckley, and the other thing is, im an Infectious Disease specialist, and i wanted to complement you on your portrayal on e. R. When i think back to it, when that started, we didnt even have effective treatment for hiv. People should go back and watch that if they havent seen it, because they really handled hiv really well. Thank you. Over here. This is primarily directed to gloria ruben. You mentioned something very important. I hope that you can expound a little more on it, the economic disparity among the viewers of television and movies. Something , most quality things are on these premium cable channels, which are out of my budget range, and i have to wait until seven months later in order to view them on netflix, but after september, i dont think i can do that anymore. This wont be available. So, why are so many of these pitched to the more expensive Premium Television channels, rather than pbs . I dont know. I mean, i was referencing, when we were talking about the Writers Strike, the disparity between producers, but your point is well taken, because when i think about a number of these megacorporations that are the top five or six, if you will of these streaming, and the membership, and that money goes to certain people, and they are not sharing the wealth, and it does its not like network television, where everybody can tune in. That doesnt happen anymore because of the access. It is a valid point. The access is not available to everyone. Sometimes, i know for myself, i will get a couple of especially over covid, streaming things. Fine, that six dollars a month, but before you know it, its like wait a minute, im doubling up. Wait a second. How much money . Let me go through and see exactly who im paying and what im getting from this. Its not like projects are specifically going to specific streamers or streaming channels. Its just, if you have a script and a show, who is going to buy it. Who wants to tell that story with you . If you get that yes, you have to go forward because its a brutal business. It took Steven Spielberg 10 years to make a lincoln. That was Steven Spielberg. It all worked out fine, thankfully, but this stuff takes time. Trust me, and its not easy. First of all, its almost a miracle that things end up on the air. Its just a miracle. I understand that everybody can afford it. Maybe choose one of your favorites. Find out what has a trial. Choose one and stick with it, then get another one and see the new shows that you want to see. Then, cancel that subscription and go to another one. People do that all the time. But, i think i can address part of it. The shows like first lady and veep are much more expensive. Everything has to be accurate. You talked about the white house plumbers, they had to rebuild the sets, and all of this is very expensive, so thats why premier channels tend to do it. Even when netflix started, if you remember when netflix started, they started with house of cards. They knew that a political show was the most powerful way to come in, but i will tell you, i dont want to end on doom and gloom, but if you look at prime time broadcast tv now, there is no way e. R. Would ever exist. Because, the companies are taking their money and putting it into the streaming channels, and on the broadcast channels, there are game shows in prime time. Cbs still has a lot of drama, but although shows are much more expensive. The senses, if youre putting all this money into streaming, you are not going to get into the broadcast channels. So, will they exist in the same way . Will you be at that work affiliate. The reason you affiliate is you want nbc news, you want nbc prime time programming, there is certain marker type things. If there is no e. R. , and i love jane lynch and those game shows, but is that going to carry . Thats one of the big things, which makes what you said about, pick your channel and cancel and go to the next thing. The problem also is, everyones looking at their stock price now. They are just cutting back on the amount of original programming. Netflix, its remarkable what they have achieved in building programming. But, its definitely not, at least, for the next year. I have to say, though, i wanted to bring gina back. I did. 20 years later. I had a whole thing. We will see what happens. Just kidding. I would have gotten the viewers, i think. Those are good points. Very true. I think we are one last question. Hello. My question is, do you think that movies Like White House down and air force one, where the president is in trouble, portrayed the presidency, or the white house, or america in a negative light to americans or around the world . We talked a little bit about the vulnerability that we are now seeing in the narrative portrayal of the presidency, in movies Like White House down, but you also saw this in movies Like Air Force one, and this goes to some degree, not only the vulnerability of the presidency, but also the heroic nature of the presidency, which is where we want to think about that. That space, and the person in it. And so, a narrative that casts this heroic individual and this office as vulnerable or, in a way, compromise, is also overly good story. And so, i think that combined with some of the conspiracy theories that we have in the zeitgeist these days, is where we see some of this coming through in portrayals of the presidency and the president , him or herself. Yeah, we didnt even really get to talk when i was a kid, i remember seeing independence day. You see the part where the aliens blow up the white house. Thats pretty jarring. As a kid, youre like wow, thats cool. You are not supposed to say that now because we are supposed to preserve the white house, but you know. Scifi is another whole genre that we didnt get to touch on a whole lot, but its interesting, that idea of vulnerability. Its like, here is the most powerful person in the world, but they are sort of like, help, i need superheroes to help. That was something we talked about on the morning panel. Im totally interrupting you. 04. This is the best white house movie, mars attacks. Remember . Yeah, jack nicholson. That was a pretty star studded cast. It was. 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