Transcripts For CSPAN3 Suffrage - Womens Long Battle For The Vote 20240712

The World Affairs council of dallasfort worth hosted this online event. Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. Joining us this afternoon is dr. Dubois. She is the author of suffrage womens long battle for the vote. Im so pleased the conversation be with a very dear and special friend and supporter of the World Affairs council. Let me remind you you can purchase a copy by going to dallass independent bookstore. Please be sure to type in the off and you will get 10 not just on suffrage but any book in your shopping cart. Thanks to ourcial director for being a sponsor of todays program. And so much thanks the league of women voters being our perversion our promotional partner. Programs, with our please go online, or if you missed program, you can go to our Youtube Channel and one surprise you that the weight to find our channel is typed in d fwworld. Lee is a special friend of the World Affairs council and the host of a program where she interviews local business leaders. You can catch that if you missed one of her programs you can also go to the website to see some of her past programs. Fellow at aenior center here in dallas, a Southern Methodist university and has been a very active member of the board of directors on the council of formulations. So i to sit back and listen to your wonderful conversation. Take it away. Lee it is wonderful to have you here with us today. Allen has written a wonderful book suffrage womens long battle for the vote. Certainly was a long battle paired she has written other books along the subject. She is a specialist in womens history. She wrote feminism and suffrage, the emergence of an independent Womens Movement in america. Edited unequal sisters, which we will talk about later and also coauthored a textbook on womens history. Dont know if you agree with me but my observation has been that there are no more faithful alums. A lot of loyalty. Its wonderful. She got her phd at northwestern and for the past several years has been a ucla. And no import no sooner had she retired that she married, terrific thing to do. To turn right to your book, we all imagined that this womens fallsnt began at seneca but in fact it has been brewing as part of the abolitionist movement. Is that not the case . Professor dubois it was the case. The first generation of suffrage were supporters of the Abolition Movement and actually had learned their skills and their beliefs about human rights relative insignificant of sex or race as opposed to the common humanity. They learned that as they said, in the schools of antislavery. They learned how to do things that women of their generation did not do very much. Speak in public, right. Organize meetings, petition and begin to draw up a whole set of demands for equality to women and they learned this in the abolitionist movement. This is the first generation. This connection between antislavery and black rights on the one hand and women rights on the other petes in the postcivil war years in the early 1870s what you call the reconstruction. Connection with the two of the three reconstruction and the 14th amendment, which gives all persons the United States citizenship and in the 15th , which is not quite right to say gives men the right to vote. It prohibits the state from franchising anyone on the basis was the decision of the Ruling Republican Party not to include prohibitions on sex as well as race. Oft leads to the breakup this historic coalition. Lee lets talk about Elizabeth Stanton. Fallsd to move to seneca that was not a happy thing to do. Professor dubois this is old Elizabeth Cady stanton. Lee she looked very different from that. Women couldnt even appear on the floor. What did she do if with herself what did she do with herself . Professor dubois this one was taken on her honeymoon and she is sitting in the balcony and surrounded by women both british and american. Much more active in the Abolition Movement than she is. Friends with the most experienced and philosophical enemy important abolitionist woman in the entire states, women about 20 years older than her, who is a quaker from philadelphia. Really, they can act on the issue of womens rights. She basicallyon begins to school distilled woman in her late 20s and begins to school her in the history of. Omens right eight years after this crucial said whois knows, its a legend, in london they decide they are going to hold a Public Meeting for womens rights. They end up doing that eight years later in 1848. By this time, stanton is now living in seneca falls, as a sort of bustling Industrial Town between rochester and syracuse. There are plenty of people in that part of new york who were very experienced activists and reformers. That year is a crucial year. Its the year that is usually known for revolutions throughout europe to begin to lay the basis for democracy in places like france and germany. And seneca falls, the United States despite the fact that slave that there were slaves many black people and women were prohibited from the right about. It is still the case that the american electorate is more expensive than any other soctorate in the world and seneca falls, lets call a revolution. The american version of the Political Revolution in europe. The other thing that is happening in these years. The United States has just come out of a war with mexico in which it has taken over the , bringn third of mexico up the lands that include my own state of california and the entry of this a normal swath of territory breaks open a prohibition on the discussion of slavery in the american congress. Slaving that point on, is an increasingly controversial political issue. The fact that the Seneca Falls Convention raises political franchise for women is connected to the fact that american politics is beginning to grapple with this allimportant issue which women are determined to be part of. Lee as time went on these women were very interested in their own right but it was Elizabeth Stanton who understood they had to have the right to vote or they wouldnt get anything else. Nobody else agreed except for frederick douglass. How did he get involved with this group of women . Frederickdubois auglass had new stanton as young mother and he was getting to work with the boston abolitionist. They werent were immediately drawn to each other despite the tremendous differences thered they were both deep deep believers in american liberalism say philosophy and shall we , i have thought a lot about their relationship. Im going to write a biography of her after this is all over. Terriblyboth suffered from the contempt that was visited on them by people who they believed rightly were much their inferiors. , this is a little older. He is a fellow with white hair and in his early 70s. He had just moved the year before stanton moved to seneca falls. He moved 50 miles west to rochester and was there starting a newspaper, his lifes desire. And the person funding a newspaper was her cousin. Andhey had many, many links their friendship lasted a halfcentury. Lee it would be a wonderful book. And then there is this wonderful woman on the cover of the new yorker. She got involved. And with a name like Sojourner Truth, who wouldnt want to vote for her . Professor dubois her name was actually isabella. She was born a slave in the hudson ritz hudson river valley. There were slaves in new york. The dutch part of the neat of new york was actually the area where stanton grew up. With otherally freed adult slaves in the 1820s in new york and she went to new york became bornagain. Name and became an itinerant preacher. In her preaching, she began to preach both about antislavery and also to talk about womens rights. She is very interesting because there are a significant number of black women who appear on women rights platforms these early decades. But Sojourner Truth is the one who most consistently supports the equality of men and women. Even though of course she remains a complete devontae for the abolition of slavery and the quality of races. But as she says, when things get going, lets keep the pot stirring. She understood what Elizabeth Stanton understood, which is was this time of abolition an opportunity that would not come again for a while. Back to boston for a moment. There was a moment known as margaret. She was the intellectual american at the time and part of emersons circle. She became the First American war correspondent in europe. She was quite a character. Im not sure if she was a suffragist. We cannot tell. First of all, not until after the civil war is the demand for the right to vote coming part of the womens rights platform. Until then, there are other demands. The quality of education is very important for the ability of women to have professional standing. Economic equality was also very her. There is some circumstantial evidence that she might have been part of a salon she ran for women but we dont have any concrete evidence. There is also pictorial woodhall. She makes margaret seem positively mainstream. She was definitely a suffragist. She was. Now we are jumping ahead to woodhall0 and victoria , its amazing there hasnt been a movie about her. I remember one that was allegedly purchased by nicole kidman. But somehow, these never got made. Of its daughter not even fair to say workingclass. Were carnies. She was taught how to trick and she seems to have had , hardpressed to say this now, she had psychic abilities she and her sister rose in the civil war years through the patronage of some powerful men. It was cornelius vanderbilt, was did was and it . It . Asnt professor dubois one of them was. She had powerful supporters and had her own newspaper. She had the ear of important politicians and and eight sick in 1869, she is able to, and a Congressional Committee and make the argument that suffragists have beginning to make for a while. Very important argument. The argument was that the 14th made all Americans National citizens and made all americans eat right and who could but disagree that the right to vote was a right of citizenship. She made that argument in front of a Congressional Committee. It was the basis of that argument and that contention that susan b. Anthony goes to her polling place in 1872 and is able to convince the polling officers to let her vote for president. She is then a few days later statute under a federal , making it a crime to vote illegal vote. Criminal voting. It was an order that president has unknowingly pardoned susan b. Anthony. I dont the dont think he understood that she was found guilty of voting but voting on the grounds at all american citizens had the right to vote. Anyhow, both susan b. Anthony and victoria woodhall were both arrested within weeks of each other. Woodhall was thrown in jail in new york city. Anthony would have liked to have been thrown in jail. She wished very much to be a martyr to the cause. But the man running the trial was actually a supreme justice herhe was not going to give the benefit of throwing her in jail and refused to allow her to do that. Lee lots of marriages, lots of lovers aired the could commune with the dead and made lots of money on wall street she was something else. But this amendment was very interesting. There was a case in illinois. Was there a woman named bradwell . Professor dubois there are a few cases that come before the supreme in the 1870s. They both are 14 amendment cases. Bradwell was a lawyer in chicago and she was being kept from a membership in the illinois bar. She argued that the 14th amendment properly understood equalted her right professional rights. That her rights to practice her profession should be practiced equally as men. The court, in a summary judgment, road rules against her about 1872. Case, and anythe of you who went to law school and were lucky enough to have any training in womens rights will know about these two cases. The other case comes before the court in 1874 and the woman who brings that case before the court is a st. Louis woman named virginia minor. Voteanthony, she tried to in 1872. Unlike anthony, she was not allowed to cast her vote. Unlike anthony, she was able to take her case to the Supreme Court. She made exactly the same argued that anthony had. I am a person and therefore citizen. Therefore equal rights and privileges protected by the federal government with all other citizens. The right to vote is one of those rights and privileges the Supreme Court said yes, you are person, a citizen yes you have equal rights but the right to vote is not a right of national citizenship. Court ruling that had gone differently and been followed, the world we live in be very, very different. Is still the case that there are not federal protections for the right to code to vote. It is under the control of the state. The federal government has almost no ability, should there be a federal government interested in protecting Voting Rights, has no ability to overrule states and insist upon equal rights. The vote still remains as it was decided in that case. Righta privilege, not a controlled by these. Lee suffragists became discouraged, understandably. Alreadytern states had granted women the right to vote, including wyoming. It happened much earlier and they had very practical reasons. Professor dubois the other side of this insistence was that the separatists suffragists seemed they would be unable to get the constitutional amendment passed. Sandy constitutional door had been slammed shut. They turned to the states and they started to go to those states which they thought were most likely to enfranchise women and these were western states. I think it is a more practical reason. Know what, i have to get a kleenex. Not because im doing anything with any illegal substances but im sneezing if you could wait one moment. I have allergies myself. But what she is about to say and im sure she will elaborate is that wyoming needed women. Anda preponderance of men felt they could trust women to come and live in wyoming if they gave them that they could get they and they felt could trust women to come and live in wyoming if they gave them the right to vote. I said that wyoming wanted to attract women. Because they had lots of men and no women. Professor dubois they had no white man they had lots of white men and no white women is accused native american women were not encouraging any enfranchisement i may have said this in the book. In these western states, the democrats and republicans were not as established. 1890s when each state began to enfranchise women there was an insurgent political. Omen condition movement that wanted toy bring new voters into the electorate heard and it is they who for the brief periods of time in which they have some power in their state, they sponsor womens suffrage. The 90s. Within another 20 years, the Second Third Party is called the Progressive Party and the same is true of them. And want to bring women they are interested in issues they believe women support and it is those states, washington and california which then enfranchise women. Very veryand this is crucial. You might think that because women have the right about and ,hey gained it in their state they had full Voting Rights women of california voted for president and Congress People starting in 1912. These women had full national Voting Rights and by the middle of the 19 teens, there were perhaps 4 million such women who are active voters in the western states. To put pressure and leverage on the existing parties and were a crucial factor in the ultimate passage of the 19th amendment, which was important because there were a lot of states that would never enfranchise. There was a column in the New York Times recently that the liquor lobby really opposed womens voting in the states. They would turn the Temperance Movement is that . He case you dont think much of that . Professor dubois it was at a very good article, i dont think. You have to remember that the 18th amendment was ratified much more recently. By the time suffrage came before congress, it was done. And it is certainly the case that in the late 19th century through an Organization Called the womens christian suffrage your someay be of your great grandmothers belong to. Way that common women, not radicals but conventional women become attracted to suffrage. Becauseome attracted they think of suffrage not as a matter of justice but because they have goals they want to achieve in the goals they want to achieve is to control liquor. Premise thatn the it is men who abuse liquor, and when they do so, they drink up their families wages and they are violent and their families so the christian temporal influential in bringing lots of smalltown relatively convention conventional women into the movement. The other problem is, it is not that attractive to men who dont want to think of womens votes as keeping them from going into the bar and throwing down a couple before they go home. So in that 20th century, there is that sort of link between suffrage and temperance. California, there is a suffragist whose name was younger they had tremendous impact on the movement. She was part of the waitresses union. And these were women who worked in bars and restaurants serve liquor. When they went before their union and argued for the right to vote, the Brewers Union as it was called gave up its opposition. Then the movement got underway and the action move back to washington. Tell us about ellis paul. She let a big demonstration in front of the white house the day before Woodrow Wilsons inauguration. Professor dubois now we are in 1913. This is about the Third Generation of women involved in suffrage and these are younger women. Modern women. Districts are shorter, their hair is shorter and they go to college they are not uncomfortable with marching and doing other things in public. She draws them in to a wing and eventually separate organization. She starts her leadership by organizing one of the first massive political parades in washington dc. , but she party evenized this parade on the of the first inauguration of Woodrow Wilson. Him power and discipline of the Suffrage Movement. End, ellis paul and Woodrow Wilson became the worst sort of enemies. They despised each others. Wilson was a southern democrat you have got great images here. He opposed a National Constitutional amendment. His party was still under the control of southern democrats. They had done their best and they had succeeded in removing the right to vote from southern black man. These states, southern white supremacist Democratic Political leaders were not going to allow lack women to come into the right to vote. So they really opposed a andtitutional amendment wilson is in their camp. In 1913. De is it later became infamous because this is a Democratic Administration in a Southern City washington. And ellis paul agrees to basically segregate black suffragists in the parade. Act which reinforces the longer for conflict between black suffrage and womens conflictreaganites with the champions of black equality and womens body. Equality. Maybe some of your listeners will want to ask more about that. Inaugurations used take place in march. 1916, ellis paul reformulate her group and calls it a party, the National Womens party. And her plan is to take all of the voting women that we talked about and have them use their votes to deny wilson his reelection on the grounds that he wont support a constitutional amendment. Have oneible she might won but there was a Little Something called the word world war and wilson declared he would take his country out of the war and became an issue and he was reelected. Including by womens votes. At that point, when he was about to be reinaugurated, in 1917 ellis paul switches her tactics protestbegins the first at the white house, and day , the day month after month members of the women parties stand silently in front of the not speaking but with theirnners slogans. The newspaper certified this amazing. April of 1917, the United States goes to war. Amusing protesters now become traders. They up their tactics. They start accusing wilson of being a hypocrite for going to war to protect democracy when there is doubt democracy at home. They are thrown in jail. They are abused. Some of them declaring that they are Political Prisoners go on a hunger strike. Some of them are forcefed. Their protests play a role, not i think that is england. Those not look like American Police those look like bobbys. In november of 1970, and by the way another big thing is about to happen, a pandemic is beginning to spread across the United States. Election of november of 1970, campaign ticket votes fruman passed the state crosses in thely state of new york with the largest and most powerful delegation changes its constitution. Two month after that the house of representatives begins. Lee you mentioned the tension between black and white women in the last days of that movement. Tell us about this black journalist ellis paul would not allowed to march with the group. Ida b wellsbois was a really wonderful person. Her parentshis, were certainly slaves. She might have been born just asore slavery was abolished was the case with so many of these families of former slaves. They were determined that their children would get education. She became a teacher and then a journalist and then she took it upon herself to begin a campaign to expose the epidemic of violence and lynching going on all over the south. She was inspired to do this because both friends of hers she lynched in memphis begins to investigate this. She goes all over the south and charges areat the oflly a cover for resentment that thisherners generation of black people is beginning to leave behind and the burden of slavery they are beginning to make. The friends of hers who were lynched were running a Grocery Store that white competitors didnt like. Now we remember her for a particularly important part of this battle one of the major charges against black men on the basis of which they were lynched is that they were sexual predators they were going after white women. , they were only charged with waving to them. , ida b wellsse first of all proved it was often not the charges against them and secondly and even more provocatively, she argued that this was not a case of black male predators and white female victims but the fact that there was a lot more interracial relationships in the south then anybody wanted to admit. That, she was shely driven out of memphis left and moved to chicago at the beginning of what began to be called the great migration and she became an important leader in the city of chicago when black male voting was southern prohibition. In cities like new york and chicago, black pants votes were not insignificant to the local Republican Party and she moved into that environment. Lee well the equal rights amendment passed earlier than i had ever realized it got nowhere until the early 70s. Here comes someone who managed to defeat it. Would you say that she won the battle but lost the war summer the war . The equal rights amendment . It was introduced in Congress Earlier than i had imagined and finally passed in the 1970s passed congress. He wrote about her in your book briefly. He came to the floor and defeated the bill. We do say that possibly she won the battle but lost the war professor dubois thats what i thought you said. What war are we talking about . Vote in the for the battle tap equal pay. Professor dubois i dont think so. Let us member that the very same time o. I thought it was what surname who played her on television. Lee cate blanchett. She was terrific. Professor dubois she had the same hairdo. Let us never that in that very same year, there are a couple of things going on here. This was not the work. It was a battle. Phyllis is note just organizing a womens initiating what became a fundamental change in the Republican Party. It will probably surprise some of your listeners to know that since the 1970s, it was the republicans who supported and not the democratic party. It was the oldfashioned Republican Party dwight and eisenhower. In Phyllis Schlafly was an early supporter of Barry Goldwater was an important element in the shift of the Republican Party to the radical right wing direction which takes which takes issues of racial and gender rights and turns them into hot on which the party ran increasingly and now thats all they run on. Time that phyllis is organizing the campaign against the equal rights amendment, there is a young lawyer coming before the Supreme Court named Ruth Bader Ginsburg and she is using the 14th amendment, the very same 14th amendment that the Supreme Court had refused to use to defend womens rights in 1874. 100 years later she is often called the Thurgood Marshall of the womens Rights Movement. Thurgood marshall also because she became a Supreme Court justice. She convinces the cord for a series of decisions that locate womens rights in the 14th amendment aired so even though they are defeated, there becomes check decades of jurisprudence starting in these years which defend womens equal rights. It is very interesting. People sayany abortion, which is the constitutional issue that become so important, abortion was decided on grounds of an argument that the right to im not a constitutional lawyer. But that there is a constitutional right to privacy for things like sexual rights. Ands a bit of a stretch, many people think that the 14th amendment, which is arguing about the equal protection of rights and privileges would have been a better and more solid basis for roe v. Wade. The point is that in the moves in a court definitely liberal direction. Lets turn to those who are joining us today and ask some questions. Prominent voices in the ruths movement such as Bader Ginsburg were jewish. Please comment on the role of jewish women in the Suffrage Movement and political feminism. Professor dubois those are two different stories. The United States is an overwhelmingly protestant country until the late 19th century. Extremely important jewish women. She comes the United States in the 1830s. Her name is ernestine rose, and anglicized version of her name. She is polish. She is a socialist antifeminist and she is an extremely important figure. Influencese of the on Elizabeth Stanton. That we have to wait until really late 19th and early 20th century with large numbers of jewish women. Coming in with massive waves of immigration aired immigration. They transform this Suffrage Movement because they are basic to the creation of a female Industrial Labor force. Particularly what are called needltry. Cloth in the garment industry. They link with womens suffrage questions of labor rights and social where fair. They are the ones who fill the ranks of those giant suffrage parade. And then we get a whole bunch of really interesting jewish women. One i will mention she was a tiny little thing, maybe four feet 10 inches tall at the most on her to be toast. Schneidermanrose and she was a Union Activist and a separatist. She becomes famous because after it is she that1, gives a powerful eulogy for the workers who died. She goes on to be a suffrage activist, organizing working women and importantly their husbands and fathers. There she is. There they are. Excellent. She is socialist in these years but later she joined the democratic and she becomes an associate of Eleanor Roosevelt and gains an important position. She is part of was called womens cabinet around Eleanor Roosevelt and 30s. Thats the first half of the question. Second half of the question is the second wave of feminism. And here, jewish women are not only more important but very important. Many figures that we know about in the womens Rights Movement and the second wave of womens liberation are jewish. Steinem, whose father was jewish, weight. She was on her mothers side. Her grandmother was jewish. Certainly Betty Frieden was jewish. And ive jewish. [laughter] i am jewish. [laughter] women whyewish this is the case is just a question. I dont know. Maybe its because there a kind of marginality that jewish women of this generation experience, that they draw upon that underlies their feminism. Also, there are arguments that this is also a. Whichs is also a time in there is an immigrant jewish generation in which men and women, husbands and wives join together to bring their families into the american dream. Now we entry the 1950s and sort of mad men. Which the next generation of jewish men eager to assimilate to american are, how shall i say this, they are not as committed to the mutuality of their relationship with two jewish women. It is possible there is a kind that jewish women of this generation understand about sexism on the spaces. Why do you think the british suffragists were more prone as violent methods to their cause . Also, with their connections between these movements before ellis paul . Professor dubois good question. This question raises a little question which never got raised before which is are they suffragettes or suffragists . The term suffragette was developed in and it was a term used by the newspapers to trivialize suffragists. Now, we dont use words like stewardess or poetess and it is that cap term. They are not really fullfledged human beings. They are small, feminine version. All suffragettes are suffragists but not all suffragettes but not all suffragists are answerette the standard thats given is that the parliamentary system is harder for women to break into. Think this isi the answer i would give, but the federal system of the united has already allowed suffragists to move into the states when block states move to the others. There is no such equivalent in england and so the parliament and liberal party refused to full Voting Rights for women to come before parliament. They have very little options. Mobilization in the same kind of way. I would have to be more of an expert on the british political system to really explain. Let me say that although its really not until 1920 that all british women receive the right to vote aired there are limits of that the number of women who vote dont overwhelm the number of men. Many of whom were killed in the first world war. There are links between the two movements and they come through of all people alyssa stanton. Her daughter married an englishman and continue to live outside of london. In the late 1880s, elizabeth goes to take care of her grandchildren. She goes to england to take care of her grandchildren and to help her daughter who needs little bell a little bit of help so she can pursue her writing and reform concerns. In the years she is there, she makes connections with british suffragists that she had made in 1840. The daughter thats how the a colleague whose father was an urgent liberal politician. It is stanton who is the basis for that continuing link. Lee here is a question from catherine limper. Can you share your thoughts on popular mainstream resistance in the early 20th century . . Rofessor dubois resistance question that there was transcendental sexism in the society. Political leaders and Suffrage Movements experienced tremendous ridicule but i personally think the real obstacles were not cultural. Leaders of came from the political party. Publicans in the 1870s and howcrats who did not now they were going to be able to control how women noted. They couldnt use women for parts of game and i believe that obstacle in the end. I would say i see jim come back. Does that mean we are running near the end . Lee it does. I have one more thing to say. Remember former governor and richards who says we have to vote and vote and vote. Professor dubois people sometimes ask me what difference did it make that this past . Passed . Usually i shake my head now it is pretty up because the right to vote is under extreme attacks aired attacks. I couldnt think of to better people to lead a discussion on women suffrage. It was such a delight to meet you and hear about your research. Your watching American History tv all weekend every weekend. To join the conversation, like us on facebook at cspan history. History on lectures in Casey Johnson teaches a class president S Lyndon Johnson Supreme Court nominations. He describes the plant to fill the bench with liberal justices and the difficulties he ran into heting that confirmed outlines the pushback from conservative senators concludes with background on some of nixons nominations. The National Archives posted a conversation with interpreters pretraining susan b. Anthony, Sojourner Truth as at and al is long as they discuss the history of womens suffrage and the challenge they face along the way. At 10 p. M. Eastern on reel america, we feature four films about wildfires, firefighting and fire prevention. All right. So at iswhat we are looking the development of controversial Supreme Court nominations in the late 1950s and early 1970s. We are looking at the war in court. And the increasing search of controversial decisions on the court. Two