Transcripts For CSPAN3 Senate Hearing On Student Aid Application 20240712

Captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2008 lets turn our attention to one of the important issues, and it is this. 20 Million Students and their families are in the middle of what has to be the strangest first semester of college in at least a century. Almost everything has changed for students except one thing, students still have to answer 108 questions on the dreaded fafsa form, federal aid application for pell grants and Student Loans to help go to college. For years now ive carried around the fafsa as a prop to make the case for simplifying it, but its no joke, especially this year. Many students are questioning their investment in a College Education at a time when many classes are only offering online courses, many of low income students who would benefit most economically from college long term are putting it off altogether. There was an 8 drop in the number of black undergraduate students enrolled in summer sessions compared with last summers enrollment according to the National Student clearinghouse Research Center. The president of Southwest Tennessee Community College in memphis, mostly my norty college, told me three years ago he loses 1500 student as semester because of the complexity of filling out the fafsa. Imagine how much less motivated anyone is to fill out those fafsa questions this year. This is a form difficult for students homeless, in foster care, living with grandparents. Hard for them to complete it. Homeless student have to prove theyre homeless. Foster care students may not have access to all the information required to complete the fafsa and students living with their grand parents often are still dependentes on their parents and obtaining information from their parents may be difficult. These are the very students federal aid is meant to help and the kind of economy a College Education proves its value. Its not that i and others havent been trying to fix the fafsa. When four of todays witnesses appear before this committee almost seven years ago, they universally agreed that fafsa was an obstacle to students attending college. They said we could award pell grants using just two simple variables, family size and income. Senator bentley and i had the same reaction, if theres that much agreement, why dont we just do it. For bennett and i set out to turn the lengthy fafsa into a postcard. The result was the fast act. Senator murray and i then worked with the Obama Administration to allow students to fill out the fafsa using their Tax Information from two years before they enroll in college instead of one so they could file in the fall, rather than having to wait until spring. The Trump Administration has created an app so students and families can files the fafsa on their cell phones or tablets. The fewer act which senator murray and i sponsored which became law last year reduced the fafsa by up to 22 questions and eliminated the bureaucratic nightmare created by requiring students to give the federal government the same information twice and then to try to catch them in making a mistake. Stopping the federal government from asking for your Tax Information twice, once for the irs and then once for the education department, also helps prevent most applicants from being selected by the department of education for Income Verification caused by mistakes which many parents and counselors have told me is a bigger burden than filling out the 108 questions in the first place. We have a piece of legislation that would finish the job. It has broad bipartisan support. Its based on recommendations that four of todays witnesses gave us nearly seven years ago at a hearing before this committee. Heres what i mean when i say its time to finish the fafsa. The Bipartisan Legislation senator jones and i have proposed would reduce the total questions on the fafsa from 108 to no more than 33. Let me give you an example of the difference if i can hold it up. This is the 108 questions, this is the 33 question form that would make the difference if we could enact it this year. Thats the first thing it would do. Second, it would end the department of educations lengthy Financial Data verification process by removing unnecessary financial questions and instead using only the Financial Data that will come from the irs starting in 2023 2024 school year a change congress made last year and passed and i mentioned. Three, it will continue to collect and provide states and colleges the information they need to determine state and institutional aid. The first legislation is senator bennett and i worked on caused some problems for states and weve worked with states and counselors to address those problems. Four, it would create a simple Grant Eligibility formula so that middle and High School Students and anyone interested in applying for aid will know how much pell grant money they have to go to college. Five, it does something else, something senator murray has been working on makes it easier for students that are homeless or in the foster system or students not in touch with their parents. Our bill allows these students to apply for aid as independent students, making the application process for them much simpler. As a result of these changes, congress would immediately enable more students to receive pell grants and many more to receive the maximum pell grant. An additional 420,000 students would qualify for pell grants each year if this bill passed according to the congressional budget office. An additional 1. 6 Million Students would qualify to receive the maximum pell grant award each year. Students from single parent families would benefit more from pell grants because the formula would account for the greatest needs of these families and in addition to senator murray, much of this work has been done by senator bennett, senator jones, as a member of this committee, and others who have helped with the work include senator booker, senator burr of this committee, senator collins of this committee, senator king, and former senator isakson. During these last several years, weve worked carefully with various organizations to make sure our proposals dont cause any unexpected problems and as a result, we have the support of the National Association for student aid administrators, the National College Attainment Network, the state Higher Education executive officers organization, schoolhouse connections, National Association of state student grant aid programs, each of the regional Higher Education compacts. In conclusion, after nearly seven years of work on these issues, it all boils down to this. It makes no sense to make it this complicated to apply for federal aid for college. It makes no sense to discourage the very Students Congress wants to encourage to attend college and benefit from federal Financial Aid. In tennessee former governor hasson created the tennessee promise and reconnect programs to provide two years of free Community College to any ten seen without a degree. All they have to do is fill out the fafsa yuts tets the governod me the fafsa is the single biggest barrier to help more to take advantage of two free years of Higher Education. The right time to finish the job is now, when College Students and families are under pressure, facing so much uncertainty, especially homeless students, students in foster care and those living with grandparents. I hope we can pass Bipartisan Legislation to do so by the end of this year. I will now recognize senator murray for her opening statement. Well, mr. Chairman, first of all, let me just say thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today and, mr. Chairman, thank you for your very kind opening remarks about me. I appreciate it so much. If im not mistaken this is your last scheduled education hearing as Health Chairman so i will say today, thank you for all your contributions about Higher Education. As i said earlier this week, as a former governor, president of the university of tennessee, secretary of education, of this committee and our entire country, everyone has really benefited from your expertise and your experience and i will say what i said again tuesday, we all owe you a debt of gratitude and really, really appreciate all your work. You know, through our time together on health, weve been able to pass the future act, to permanently fund our nations hbcus, we he updated our nations career and Technical Education programs and worked together with senator to restore the yearround pell grant, to name a few, just in Higher Education. Again, thank you so much for all of your contributions and, of course, today we are discussing an issue near and dear to your heart where you already have an impressive legacy, that is fafsa simplification. Im proud of the steps we have taken to improve the fafsa for students across the country. From our work in 2015 with the Obama Administration to allow students to fill out the fafsa earlier and with more accurate Financial Information, to our work last year on the future act which will streamline the process to help students securely use the Tax Information already on file with the federal government, this is an issue where we have been able to find Common Ground and get things done. Mr. Chairman, your leadership on this issue has already made the fafsa much easier to navigate, but, of course, we both agree there is more work to be done. The ongoing pandemic is also having a profound Economic Impact on families across the country and we are already seeing students are facing unprecedented struggles when it comes to paying for college. The fafsa must be a tool that expands access to higher ededation, not a barrier that prevents students to get the Financial Aid they need to go to college. We need to build on the valuable work to make fafsa easier to navigate making sure students experiencing homelessness, in foster care and students whose families have low incomes can successfully get access to the pell grants available to them because right now, its students that need our help the most who are facing the biggest burdens in getting Financial Aid. Those students dont often have the resources to navigate the college Financial Aid process and they struggle without access to College Counselors or other support and many times without dependable internet or access to a computer. So instead of forcing them to jump through unnecessary hoops, we need to do everything we can to make their lives easier, like making the verification process where student have to confirm information on the fafsa for their schools less of a burden, especially for families with low incomes. Determining pell grants based on the federal Poverty Level, so more students and families can easily know the amount of help they will receive and fully implementing the future act as soon as possible. We cant stop there by the way. We need to get serious about connecting students to more than just pell grants and must work to ensure that students dont miss out on state and federal support programs they may be eligible for that could help them afford food and housing and child care. The fafsa is just the beginning of the Financial Aid process we need to make easier for students and families, so im glad to keep working with you, mr. Chairman, to get this right, but while simplifying fafsa is important i dont have to tell anyone here that covid crisis is top of mind for students and families and educators. We just kicked off an Unprecedented School year. There have been over 88,000 cases of coronavirus on College Campuses and 60 deaths and these outbreaks have led many colleges to abruptly switch to remote classes and force students to leave campus with little warning. Im hearing truly heartbreaking stories from College Students back in my home state of washington about the turmoil they are experiencing. So the Senate Also Needs to get to work negotiating a covid relief package to make sure colleges can deliver a quality education for their students and implement Public Health protocols and provide emergency Financial Aid to students who are struggling to afford the food and housing and child care and technology that they now need to have during this crisis. So i want you to know im going to keep pushing to start bipartisan negotiations on this relief package, but for now, i again want to thank our witnesses for being here and thanks again to chairman alexander. I know we dont always agree, but what i do know is that even when we disagree, weve always been able to listen to each other and quite often find things we can agree on that helps the people were here to serve. Thats what weve been able to do with the fafsa simplification in the past and i hope even in the few weeks you have remaining this year, that we can build on that work to make much needed progress on the many critical challenges in front of us so thank you, again, mr. Chairman. Thank you so much, senator murray. Senator baker told me one time that the key to being an effective senator was to become an eloquent listener. Absolutely. Absolutely. You do pretty well at that and i try to as well. Welcome our witnesses today. Our first witness is dr. Bridget terry long the dean and professor of education in economics at the Harvard Graduate School of education. Dr. Long is an economist who focuses on the transition from high school to Higher Education and beyond. Her Research Examines the impact of factors of affordability and academic preparation on College Student outcomes appointed to the National Board for Education Sciences at the u. S. Department of education where she served as vice chair and chair. She holds a ph. D. In master degree from the Harvard University department of economics and bachelor degree in economics from princeton. Our second witness is dr. Kim miss kim cook, executive director of the National College Attainment Network. Miss cook has worked in the Higher Education and College Access field for her entire professional career including an undergraduate admissions in Financial Aid and last Dollar Scholarship Program and as executive director of nca since 2008. She holds master degree in Public Administration from pace university, bachelors degree from american university. Our third witness is miss rachel feldman, associate provost and director of scholarships and Financial Aid at the university of North Carolina at chapel hill. She served as director of Financial Aid at the university of california berkeley in this role she developed and implemented a peer led Financial Wellness initiative for undergraduate and graduate students and cofounded and coled the university of california Financial Aid Leadership Institute and doechlds and implemented uc berkeley middle class access plan and currently serves on the leadership capacity on several Financial Aid advocacy boards. Our fourth witness dr. Judith Scott Clayton associate professor of economics and education at Teachers College Columbia University and directs the Economics Program and dr. Clayton is a Faculty Research associate at the National Bureau of Economic Research and Senior Research scholar at the Community College Research Center and holds a bachelor degree from wesley and ph. D. From harvard. Our final witness kristin hullcyst firm hcm strategies, she helped steward and direct two recent initiatives American Dream 2. 0 coalition and the doing better for more students technical report. She served as the u. S. Department of education Senior Adviser to the undersecretary of education and the Program Director for education policy at the National Governors association. She holds a bachelor degree from california polytechnic state university, a masters from georgetown. I look forward to everyones testimony. We thank you for being here. Let me please remind you to summarize your testimony in five minutes if you will. And lets begin with dr. Long. Welcome. Good morning, everyone. Chairman daryl, senator murray and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you again today. My name is dr. Bridget terry long and as noted i am the dean and professor of education in economics at the Harvard Graduate School of education. I spent the last two decades researching issues on Student Success and my testimony aims to provide information on the challenges students face in the Financial Aid system and steps to reform the fafsa and improve the federal Financial Aid system. To begin, i must emphasis the importance of Financial Aid. There is a long definitive research that proves Financial Aid has a positive impact on student enrollment but student persistence and degree completion. It is an approach for supporting College Access and success. Today the importance of Financial Aid is only growing, but a major impediment for many families, especially many low income families is the complexity at the college of Financial Aid process. There continue to be a lack of information about the process of applying and receiving the Financial Aid and the fafsa process is difficult to navigate and families are burdened with questions that do little to nothing to further our system of their financial need. Theres also confusion about how to remove Financial Aid. So as a result, students miss out on the support they are eligible to receive which affects their enrollment decisions and limits College Access. Additionally lost or reduced Financial Aid undermine student persistence in degree completion. Overall, having a cumbersome, overly complex Financial Aid system undermine the effectiveness of our Financial Aid policies not only federal, but also state and institutional aid programs because the process and the fafsa are unnecessarily complicated gatekeepers. Simplification is an important policy tool, a powerful policy tool. As i have shown in my research interventions that simplify the fafsa for families have had meaningful, positive impacts on college outcomes. And my work with eric, bill, and lisa we found that streamlining and providing assistance with the fafsa had a substantial positive impact on the likelihood of aid application and enrolling in college. Three years after that intervention helping students with the fafsa, we found that students were still persisting in college and persisting at higher levels and had Higher Educational attainment than their counterparts who did not receive help with the fafsa. They were able to succeed in college even though the barrier of the fafsa process would have kept them out of school. I want to acknowledge that there have been improvements to the fafsa in recent years and those have been amazing, but while the steps have been important, these efforts do not fully address the needs of many students. In a study i recently completed with eric and monica, in which we conducted a randomized controlled trial with 15,000 snuntsz 2017, we found that students still lacked access, awareness of Financial Aid eligibility, the fafsa application procedures and aid award rules even after having prior year early fafsa and irs data retrieval tool. Our intervention which focused on providing support and information had a positive impact which underscores the fact that without additional help and information, the current fafsa process is still a barrier to getting students aid. This point was further emphasized with what we just witnessed this past spring, with fafsa submission rates during covid. As students lost access to their teachers, counselors and nonprofit organizations who would normally help them, we saw submissions for the fafsa fall. So yes, additional simplification is necessary but much more is needed beyond just reducing the number of questions. First i would underscore the necessity to improves the need analysis calculation that determines how much aid families should receive. We need to reform it to more accurately reflect the financial situations of most College Students today who are not going full time and are financially dependent on their parents after immediately leaving high schooles. We have working adultes, parents, veterans not served as well by the way that we calculate how much aid they should receive. Regarding the fafsa we must disseminate clear information and enable multiple pathways for the families to complete the aid process. Perhaps most importantly now is the time we need to bolster the aid available to students. [ inaudible ] and numerous examples of racial injustice. While we usually see increases in College Enrollment during recessions this moment of time appears to be different in severity and scale. According to a new poll at least half of households in large cities have been affected by depleted savings and job loss and basic needs. Without support we are unlikely to see investments in the skills that will be necessary to take individuals and families in this country to the next stage of economic growth. Thank you. Thank you, dr. Long. Miss cook, welcome. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member murray and members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify on time to finish the fafsa. Im honored to offer this testimony as a former pell grant recipient myself. The National College Attainment Network and its over 500 affiliates work in communities across the country to close gaps in postsecondary attainment. As a nation weve made progress over the past 20 years with more students pursuing Higher Education but when we scratches the surface of the data we find attainment gaps of over 20 Percentage Points persist by race and income. Much of that gap is fueled by affordability challenge with the growing gap research finding only 25 of public fouryear institutions are affordable to even those students who work hard to gather all of the federal and state aid for which they are eligible. Fafsa completion is the bare minimum to afford college. This onetwo punch of inequity and lack of affordability exacerbated by Family Income losses due to covid make todays conversation about fafsa as the key to access that federal aid critical. The High School Class of 2018 left nearly 2. 6 billion on the table in unclaimed pell dollars not completing the fafsa. Many students miss out on the pell they deserve because the form is unduly complicated and often requires expert assistance to complete. Since our hearing seven years ago, weve been improving the fafsa through changes such as the use of prior year income, to allow students to file the application to better align with their Decision Making timeline and the launch of a mobile app to reach students where they are. In the year following the changes we saw a 9 increase in fafsa completion for High School Seniors and reversed a fouryear decline in applications. Prior year also increased the percentage of fafsa filers who are pell eligible adding over 58,000 pell fafsa filers. Simplification matters. The december passage of the future act will reduce up to 22 questions on the fafsa by allowing for data sharing between the u. S. Department of education and the Internal Revenue service. While we celebrate the passage of this legislation, its important to note that it faces a more complicated than anticipated road to implementation which is not expected until the 2324 fafsa. Were at point to think about whats left to fix the fafsa. Three key steps remaining. Remove unnecessary questions, simply fi the pell Grant Eligibility formula, for students receiving means tested benefits and streamline verification. Expand on these in my written testimony and would be happy to discuss more in the question and answer period. First, we have long advocated to remove unnecessary questions. 25 of the questions on todays fafsa are answered by less than 1 of applicants. In our 2017 research, half the fafsa, we developed a user tested streamlined fafsa with fewer questions. We found fafsa improved completion time by 3 and more importantly, reduced the error rate by 56 . Second, we turned to the pell grant, the cornerstone of federal student aid for lowincome students. We advocate for a simplified pell eligibility formula that ties adjusted gross income and family size to federal Poverty Levels. We support a fasttrack to full pell Grant Eligibility to those receiving means tested benefits such as the snap program. While coming the pell grant, at its peak in 75 76 maximum pell grant covered more than three quarts of the average cost of attendance at a four year university. Today less than 30 . Longterm investment proposal calls for a return to a pell grant that covers 50 of the cost of attendance for public fouryear university. Our third and final component to fix fafsa is to better target and significantly decrease verification selection rates. The student fafsa is not complete or actionable until this process is resolved, often causing missed deadlines and opportunities for first come, first serve state and institutional aid. Earlier this year, we worked with the office of federal student aid data to find slightly more than 70 of students who completed verification experience nod change in their pell grant award. And that 93 of applicants with an auto zero efc retained that award after verification. These data raised questions about the cost and benefits of verification and how upcoming policy implementations could knock down this barrier. In closing we thank you for having this important discussion today. Mr. Chairman, as you retire from the senate, please let me take this opportunity to thank you for being a tireless champion for fafsa simplification and help all of our students succeed. Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony and your nice comments. Miss feldman, welcome. Thank you, chairman alexander, Ranking Member murray and members of the committee for this opportunity to speak about simplifying the aid application process. As a person on a campus, i see every day how important this is. At carolina were a public Flagship University that prides itself on being truly public and that includes making it affordable for anyone who earns their admission through their scholarship and hard work. More than 10 of our undergraduates participate in our Carolina Covenant Program which is a promise for low income students. A quarter of our undergraduates receive pell grants and half receive some sort of need based aid. This means carolina provides significant funding to make College Affordable to every student across the income spectrum. Therefore, we must stretch our precious taxpayer and donor dollars and direct funds where theyre needed most. This means we need a fafsa that works for our lowest income students but also for middle income families that still need help to afford college and also for those seeking federal loans to financial their education. On the campus i see firsthand how students and families get discouraged by the complexity of the process. In difficult times like this pandemic, i really see the worry and frustration families have as they try to make it through all their paperwork. As you can imagine our students were among the hardest hit as they and their family members lost jobs, had to close Small Businesses and students were uncertain of where to live and how to take their courses remotely. We want to be there to answer their questions and provide them help and support, something we would have more time to do if we didnt have to explain a complicated application or follow up on missing tax transcripts. I applaud the senates efforts to make sure students can easily make it through the process and concentrate on their education. As an aid office we want three things an aid application thats easy for students to complete, a precise and meaningful measure of financial need and to be empowered to serve individual students in unique situations. With the act and further reform we can get there. The director of irs information is key. It means the fafsa wont need to ask questions about things we already know. That will make more students likely to complete the process and attend college and we can be assured of the quality and accuracy of the data were receiving. We should not need to subject so many families to verification. Frankly a burden for schools as well. I hope you will enact, in fact, additional legislation that will leverage the expanded irs data in the future act to further streamline the process. While schools like mine could use that expanded Tax Information right now for awarding our own funds, its value could be multiplied. I have thoughts how this could make things easier and equitable which i outlined in my written testimony and would be happen to comment on. In my written testimony i applaud many ideas in the fafsa simplification act, removing questions not related to finances and making the fafsa easy for those in simple situations without sacrificing information for people with complex situations. I would love to see a fafsa. Not only simply and equitably distributes pell but also contains enough information to eliminate any need for supplemental forms from states or from schools. As simple as we make the fafsa we also need to make sure it makes sense for all families including those in the nontraditional situations many of my colleagues have mentioned. Aid can be confusing even beyond the fafsa. We need time to dig into each students situation and use professional judgment to address unique challenges. Otherwise the simplified formulas that work for the many may harm the few. The pandemic has proven this point. Without the flexibility to adjust aid for job losses and extra expenses many students would have dropped out. But families face hardships all the time, not just during pandemics and we want to help them and use their true ability to pay to guide that help. I hope once the future act and further legislation helps us simplify the fafsa, students parents and aid officers can spend less time navigating forms, fixing errors and submitting and reviewing tax forms for verification. Instead i hope students and families have more time for learning and living and i hope aid officers have more time to counsel family, encourage financial literacy, help students facing emergency and address special circumstances. Our goal should be to help students not only with access but successful graduation. Let me thank you for the steps we have already taken with the future act and the excellent proposals to make things easier and simpler for all families. As an aid officer i hope it will create a simple but meaningful process that allows professional like me to concentrate on helping students and making their dream of attaining a College Degree come true. Thank you very much. Thank you, miss feldman. Dr. Scott clayton, welcome. Thank you, chairman alexander, Ranking Member murray and members of the committee. It is a true honor to be here in front of you again this time virtually. Obviously a lot has changed since we first testified in 2013 and especially during these past six months. So the first thing i would like to address is why fafsa simplification Still Matters in the context of Everything Else that is going on right now. To put it simply, fafsa simplification Still Matters because College Access Still Matters. Perhaps now more so than ever. We know that the burdens of this pandemic from unemployment to illness and death are falling hardest on low income families and communities of color. In addition low income College Students may lack adequate Computer Technology and wifi to support online classes an the Public Institutions they are most likely to attend are facing drastic cuts if state and local funding. With the full recovery not expected for perhaps a decade, much is uncertain about the future. But the one thing we can count on is without large and sustained federal efforts to support lowincome students at all levels of education, educational inequality is likely to explode in the coming years. And if we dont take every step that we can to address this now, well be addressing the fallout for generations. When it comes to inequality and College Access, fixing the fafsa can be a meaningful part of the solution. De we know from research when students get Financial Aid it increases enrollment and can lead to higher rates of Home Ownership after college. As my collaborator and i wrote when we began studying this issue the federal student aid programs hide their substantial benefits behind a tangled thicket of bureaucracy in the fafsa application process. For many families filling out a fafsa is more complicated than an income tax form and something they have less experience with. Too many eligible students or perspective students have never heard of it and no idea it could provide them with up to over 38,000 in pell grant support over the course of their degree. Others try to file but get stuck along the way including in the comber sol verification process. Some dont realize they have to reapply every year and others are shut out due to the fafsas unnecessary counter productive question 23 about prior drug convictions like a woman i met this monthly when on a panel together speaking about College Access to members of the Oklahoma House of representatives. This complexity undermine our investment in student aid making it harder to reach the students that need it most and this is not just speculation as dr. Long just talked about. One of the studies she mentioned she was a coauthor on showed just helping families fill out and submit the fafsa increased College Enrollment by 8 points. Thats huge. Millions fail to file each year losing out in 24 billion in aid annually right now during the pandemic, the fafsa is just one more frustration for students and families to navigate when so much of their energy is consumed trying to survive. Most frustrating of all it does not have to be this way. Most of the questions on the fafsa are not necessarily to accurately target federal student aid. Simulations show pell eligibility can be predicted using only a few key items like income and family size. We could get rid of what we think of as the fafsa completely and heres what that could look like. First, base pell grants on a limited number of elements already available from the irs so that no separate financial application would even be needed. Second, we could continue to provide an index of eligibility that states and institutions can use for their own purposes. Third, fix eligibility for several years so that students can plan a multiyear course of study without needing to reapply. Fourth, summarize pell eligibility by income in a simple look up table and finally use irs information to proactively communicate to students and their families about pell eligibility. Since 2013 substantial progress has been made towards simplification thanks to the hard work of members of this committee. The future act will reduce the hassle even further and minimize the need for verification. Concerningly, fafsa applications are down since the committee took up this issue in 2013 and theyre down the most among low income students and independent students. Without further action the fafsa will still be the fafsa and still a barrier for low income students. Of course this isnt the only action we need to address persistent and growing inequality in education, but we cant afford not to take every opportunity that we have to help low income students who need our support now more than ever. Thank you and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, dr. Scott clayton. Our final witness is miss hullquist, welcome. Thank you. Good morning senator alexander, senator murray and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I am christian holquis come before you as an analyst, former Senior Adviser in the u. S. Department of education and a last witness to the interest and support of the fafsa simplification act. 525,600 minutes, the artists performing seasons of love from the play rent ask, how do you measure a year . I ask, how do you measure the time it takes to coalesce the voices for the fafsa simplification act. 24 years since president clinton introduced with his budget the concept of using prior year income provided through tax returns. 4362 days since secretary Margaret Spellings first waived the ten page fafsa when rolling out the bush administrations call for fafsa simplification. 68,102 hours since the New York Times covered strategist release of our American Dream 2. 0 report on simplifying student aid. This is a bipartisan report signed by civil rights leaders, a sitting governor, the president of the nations largest historically black College University system, the former head of the congressional budget office, employers and miss cook. 3. 6 million minutes since we four sat before you to demonstrate our shared conviction that fewer questions asked of students could yield approximately the same determination of need. States agree, we must finish fixing the fafsa now. An alphabet soup of state based Educational Leadership organizations unite on this. Tennessees experience shows us why they do. Tennessee has implemented multiple layers of staffing and infrastructure to achieve its best in the nation fafsa completion status. Every School Counselor gets a fafsa kit. This leads to a fafsa frenzy day across the state. No joke, that is a real thing. Finally, students receive individual reminders throughout the application period, urging them to complete their form and connecting them to call centers for support. Institutions agree we must fix the fafsa now. Nafsa supports this bill. I see the consequences of not having a simplified Needs Analysis for pell in my role as a trustee of one of our nations hispanic serving institutions, metro state denver. We are the opportunity generator in colorado. Compress half of our student body, one third of our fulltime students qualify for the maximum pell grant. The hard work of Racial Justice on our campus needs a simplified pell formula and for denvers 130,000 unemployed, with a pell lookup table msu denver can partner with our states Unemployment Insurance program to reach these adults that need reskilling and up skilling. Advocates for students coalesce around other changes in the fafsa simplification. As vice chair of the institute for Higher Education policies i join the voices of 40 National Faith Justice Reform business corrections and Higher Education organizations calling for removal of question 23, prohibiting students from prior drug related offense from getting aid. I sit before you just as much as one to remind you of the consensus achieved but as a former department of education adviser one who nose delaying to adopt the fafsa simplification act is wasteful and inefficient. Aid is incorporating necessary upgrades to the future. Changing in the fafsa do not happen quickly because of backend systems, but we have the opportunity to do a full renovation. Future fafsa will authorize the irs to share data and no additional Financial Information will be needed. My mom raised me never quit a ra race. 9 from finishing. As a first generation pell graduate as a mother of a daughter who just started college this fall, as the financial supporter of Cornerstone Christian school, where every one of our students will be first gen and needs us to finish the job we started 24 years ago, i implore you dont quit now. We have 53 questions, one hurdle to go, to finish this race. We can and must measure the impact of consensus achieved in more than time elapsed. Millions more americans will access Financial Aid they need to improve their lives if you pass now the fafsa simplification act. Thank you. I welcome your questions. Well, thank you very much to our witnesses of compelling testimony and i have i will now begin a series of questions from senators limited to five minutes each. Listening to all of you especially the numbers that miss holquist mentioned takes me back seven years to the testimony when four of the witnesses who are here today, when i asked them and said, could you each write us a letter about what we need to do to simplify the fafsa and turned around and looked at each other, we dont need to each write you a letter we all agree on what needs to be done and they wrote us one letter. That was seven years ago. It sounds like today, it seems even more urgent to do it now. Sometimes in the senate we get in a position of saying well, lets wait until we agree on everything to do anything. This is a very significant thing that were talking about. I mean just to go back to where i started, this is the fafsa, this is 108 questions that in the middle of the pandemic 20 million families are expected to fill out in order to get their Free Education in tennessee for two years or any pell grant or any student loan. 20 million families filling it out every year. And what our witnesses have told us is that 53 questions on that list that we dont need. Theres really not any disagreement about that. I guess theres someone somewhere who disagrees about that, but i havent met them. I rarely have met any issue about which theres much more compelling agreement thanes this. This would be the new fafsa minus 53 questions that our witnesses say is unnecessary. Let me talk about a technical matter. The law that senator murray and i introduced last year that took the 22 questions and said that were on the fafsa that are on the fafsa and with one click a student applicant and family can ask the irs to answer that question for them, thats a big step forward. And the 53 that were talking about are in addition to that. It will take a while to implement the law we passed last year and were told it may be the year 23 24. Well my question and let me ask miss holquist and miss cook to start with this question, wouldnt it make sense to go ahead and pass this legislation removing the 53 questions so that it can be implemented at the same time the law we passed last year is, so that the new simplified fafsa can be introduced all at once to 20 million families in the same year 23 24 . How much difference would that make . Miss holquist. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I wanted to start by echoing senator murrays commendation of you. On behalf of first generation students we owe you a debt of gratitude. From a Student Perspective no doubt the fafsa simplification act finishes the job onliy asks the questions we need and no more. From a taxpayer and u. S. Department of education perspective you measure twice and cut once. Were going to have one back Office System upgrade thats going to be secure because were going to be transferring data from the irs to the department of education but not linking up our Data Elements the current law uses Data Elements from tax forms that no longer exist. The tax cuts and job act got rid of the 1040 a and 1040 ez. The kedepartment of education using schedule one. You have one model not talking to the old model. Lets clean up the legislation so our statutory formula for student affordability index, byebye efc, would actually be able to be sufficient and so individuals dont have to wonder did i fill out a schedule one, like right now they dont know whats a 1040 a or ez. Im going to run out of time here in a minute. Let me if i move on to miss cook and ask her the same question, wouldnt it make sense pass this law this year getting rid of the 53 questions to be implemented at the same time of the future act that senator murray and i sponsored. Mr. Chairman, fortunate to help serve and advise on implementation of the future act and weve seen as you understand well from your time that the sausage making process is difficult. I would say to the extent we can make these sweeping changes once im sure that would be helpful and i would be hopeful we would be able to integrate them all in the 23 24 fafsa. Dr. Scott clayton do you have anything to add . I simply agree with the prior statements. I absolutely think get it done once to make it efficient. Make. My time is up. Senator murray. In overseeing federal Financial Aid you see firsthand how its just one part of a complicated Financial Aid and enrollment process. Unfortunately, families face a lot of barriers in getting access to the support they need to afford Higher Education. And your own campus has seen the tumultuous impact of trying to make this process work during a pandemic. As a former is recipient myself i know how these forms creates headachess and barriers. And students now facing more rules and forms to get into college and get Financial Aid. Besides completing the fafsa was are the biggest hurdles students face in getting the Financial Access theyx our complicated formula gives us a chance to address that issue. And finally we need to make sure as i said earlier whatever we do to simplify those formulas for the index isnt so simple that schools like ours decide they need to fill out the css profile or other forms which are even more complicated than the fafsa today. While its critical we know the fafsa is just the front end of the process they go through, theres a lot more we should be doing to make sure our students have the support they need to afford food and housing and child care. And the its as the economic devastation of this pandemic is continuing many students and families particularly students and families of color are now experiencing unemployment and are really struggling to make ends meet. And those financial pressures threaten to exacerbate existing Racial Disparities regarding access to Higher Education. So to any of our witnesses whod like to answer let me just start with ms. Cook and m. D. Feldman. How can the department of education, states and colleges use the fafsa and Financial Aid process to connect students to other federal programs like medicaid and help make sure they can meet their basic needs while going to school . Senator, our experience is that many, many of our students have overlapping eligibility for pell grant, for snap for example. We see some opportunities perhaps on loan counseling to flag those students and flag their eligibility they may not be aware of. I also think we may have some promised then proposed simplified pell Grant Eligibility index. Since that is tied to federal Poverty Level it could give us a chance to crosswalk others tied to federal poverty law. Thank you, i agree with the statements of ms. Cook especially about the federal Poverty Level, and i also believe we need to make sure the measures were using accommodate nontraditional measures such as the students living with their grandparents. The students arent sure which are the parents they should be putting on the form and our independent students returning to school which make up more and more of our populations. I have a mipt left, but i wanted to ask you have breath brin about the benefits of p predictability by Financial Aid. Thank you, senator murray. Just to say we need to use out of these acronyms we use like efc. Weve seen research of other colleges and universities have moved to income thresholds that colleges understand or parents understand much better. I think this also builds on your previous question where we know about other aid programs. If you were already qualifying for food stamps or other kind of assistance, communicating that to students, saying if you were qualifying for Financial Aid, having that to go back and notify students. Weve seen this work in the past very effectively in increasing access to support. Thank you. And i know im out of time so if maybe some of the others could give me a written response that would be great. Thank you, senator murray. Senator cassidy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, its such a nobrainer. Youve convinced me over the last 4 or 5 years weve worked together as to the wisdom of this. My wife a general surgeon she was filling out a fafsa and she threw up her hands in the air. I think if your first language is not english, how would you accomplish it, so it really gives me sympathy. With that said im going to open up speaking about something which is not directly on point but id like to make the point. Its not only important someone be able to access the financial means, but i personally think its important they have the student level data, because i tell folks if you look in the mirror what does someone who looks like you going to do at this curriculum at this university . Senator warren and i have a Transparency Act bill that would request this to be published so someone could say i look like this, what am i going to do in this crim lm at this school. Do you have any comments on that . Youre on mute. Thank you, senator, for the tip and also for your question. Currently students must make choices whether to attend college, to study or to pay for it based on willfully inadequate information. This is because our National Database systems are inclut andbirdpsome. So the student level data network like the one youve proposed would fix us. It provides students with quality information on institution and Program Level outcomes to inform their choices and also gives policy makers better information to drive evidence based decisions which is very critical in a time lying this when resources are scarce. Thank you very much, and frankly im going to ask you be called as a witness if we ever have a hearing on it. Ms. Feldman, your testimony stated that you hope that the aid administrators will be giving guardrails to ensure Program Integrity such as the ability to use professional judgment to reduce a pell grant if the agi does not appear to reflect the students true ability to pay. Can you elaborate on that . Because were trying to get help to people and sometimes it gets tiedane knot and i think you want to untie it. Can you elaborate on that, please . Absolutely. Certainly our overall goal is to make things as simple and straightforward as possible for the majority of families. But i can tell you a story about a family i had about a few years ago. The student applied for aid, they were selected for verification. The mothers agi was 20,000. 40,000 from earned work and 16,000 from interest income. As we dug in that woman was a lawyer who owned her own firm and worked out of her home. And her income was actually closer to 300,000, but she had a lot of paper write off as she depreciated her home, her car and wrote off a lot of other things as personal expenses. It feels its not a good use of taxpayer money to give that student a full pell grant when there are so many in true need when there are others quite ably to use the tax system to write their income with these nonfinancial paper expenses that dont affect their true ability to pay. I think those cases would be rare but in state aid it could be very important. We have to push back on accountability and i think youre asking for administrator level accountability. Table, how has the pandemic affected students ability to pay, those who may have lost jobs, et cetera . Can you just comment on that . Yeah, the pandemic has been really devastating particularly for our low income students. And with our switch to Remote Learning many of them needed help just getting hooked up to Broadband Internet so they were able to study. Students needed a desk to study at. Maybe they shared a room at home with three of their siblings. Thank goodness we had the cares act to help us with emergency aid, but our resources are dwindling, and im wondering what well do next year with students coming to us because their parents have lost jobs, they cant find part time work and theyre uncertain about the future. We really appreciate the support. Thank you, senator cassidy. Senator casey. Mr. Chairman, thanks very much. I wanted to start by saying i think i speak for a lot of members of the committee when i say that most of us would incorporate by reference both what you and senator murray said about each other, so we wanted that on the record. Let me start with the circumstance we face with the worst Public Health crisis in a century, the covid19 pandemic. That pandemic we know has created all kinds of disruptions. And in the Education System those disruptions range from child care through post secondary education and so many other disruptions in between, and at the same time theres been a jobs crisis that has slowed in the wake of the pandemic. We know that post secondary education will be a critical component to any economic recovery, and unfortunately for many students the pandemic has not only created financial strain but it has exacerbated other barriers to post secondary education such as access to technology, access to transportation and even access to affordable high quality child care. We heard testimony this past march as well as today that only 45 of low income students complete the fafsa and missing out on some 24 billion in grants and loans institutionally each year. So to ensure that any student with financial need is able to obtain assistance its clear we must make the form and verification process simpler. I think we all agree on that. But i have to say without further reform tuesday the Higher Education act and significant investments in child care, elementary and secondary education, Higher Education, state and local funding and so many other investments we should be making post secondary access and success will unfortunately remain out of reach for many americans. Ill start with associate provost feldman for this question. Many college Financial Aid officers because of the pandemic had to cancel in person counseling and training events, and many College Access organizations transition to Virtual Operations supporting students solely online or by phone as they navigate these complex forms is indeed challenging. And for many low income and rural students a lack of access to technology or reliable highspeed internet can make it nearly impossible. According to the pew Research Center 30 of low income households of School Age Children lack reliable internet at home. My fundamental question is this. What can the department of education and institutions of Higher Education do to better support these students in applying for Financial Aid without the inperson assistance . Thank you, senator casey. That is indeed a challenging question. And here in North Carolina we are certainly a state that has broadband deserts in our Rural Counties in places. We, in fact, as we moved to remote instruction gave students supplements very particularly to try to purchase broadband access. But in some cases students chose to stay and live in inapartment in chapel hill rather than go home because no matter how much money we threw at them all simply wasnt the accessibility available and they couldnt be successful. On the other hand, students have been very resilient in using things like zoom or this webex product were using now or their phone to apply for aid or ask for help. And weve been able to help them much more carefully and strongly than we thought. I think if theres anything the department can do, again, to provide funding for students who need it to help enhance their access to technology in their schools or in their homes or both, it would be key to them successfully transitioning to college this coming year. Before i close i just want to ask any other member of the panel if they want to comment on this question about what the department can do. Thank you, senator, for the question. I would just briefly say we want students and families to be focusing their time on their academic preparation, and we know they have to focus now on many other needs. The more we can do in proactively pushing that information so for families who are already established but struggling at their core, why not do the outreach . So these recommendations to base things off quality levels and Poverty Levels for the program we can be much more proactive in meeting families where they are in their needs. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator casey. Senator m senator m senat senator murkowski. Okay, you can hear me and you can see me, right . I can hear you. Now i can see you. Thank you, chairman alexander. And thank you to those who have gathered to talk about these important issues for our students and what we can do ease the process for them. Several of you have noted the importance of decoupling the pell grant need analysis from federal Student Loans to ensure that our middle schoolers or High School Students will know theyve got the money then to go into college. We recognize, though, at the fafsa simplication act does not provide a promise students will be eligible for a pell grant because we know circumstances can change, Family Income can change, and theres been that discussion early this morning. The early awareness chart idea i assume is intended to let the students know that college may be an option if the income levels stay the same. But im afraid that that message may get lost there. Im concerned that families may believe that a chart showing a certain Family Income and family size equals a certain pell grant amount, and thats a promise, thats a guarantee. So how can the fafsa simplication act avoid that misunderstanding . Have we thought through how we ensure in a clear way that this is this is conditioned on circumstances remaining the same . Is this a concern you have . And i throw you out to any member of the panel who may wish to speak to it. Ill speak to that, thank you, senator. I do think that is a bit of a concern, but you have to wait relative to concerns here. I think right now the far larger concern is students go dont know or arent preparing for college because they think they wont qualify. If we do have some students preparing and qualifying and get surprises in another direction thats a concern for the longterm i think the ideal solution there is to think about taking that eligible and basing it on a familys income. So it can really be a promise when we get to that point. They know. Its almost like a savings account or baby bond idea by the time they get there they know exactly what they have in the back. And i think classification is a step that will be move isin that direction. So were not quite there yet, but were laying the groundwork. I think this will be a huge step, the legislation on the agenda today. I think itll be a major step, and like i said im way more worried about students not preparing for college because they think they wont qualify. And we know theres a lot of persistence to Family Income over time. We saw that every year switch. Theres a lot of persistence over eligibility, and i think it will open the door to even greater reforms in the future. Anybody else want to speak to that quickly . If i could interjekt juct ju briefly. When we werephobing s on 2,800 students in North Carolina we also had a smaller experiment where we shared with their younger siblings and sophomore and freshman in their schools the postcard were talking about right now with a preestimate of Financial Aid. We found families became interested in almost a meeting with their Guidance Counselors and meeting with nonprofits available to start a conversation. It grabbed their attention so therapy coming in to get the advice not just about Financial Aid but also about College Choice and program of study which is also a very important part of the process. So we really interpreted it as starting the conversation, which is absolutely critical given all the misinformation out there that theres no aid. I appreciate that. Let me switch to a question that came from the university of alaska. And this relates to the need for changes in the Income Verification process. From their perspective this verification process has been theyve described it almost as a victory. Its captured a minimum amount of fraud and abuse. She likened it to getting audited by the irs every year and finding nothing every time. Its good you find nothing, but it puts applicants through quite a process for what they feel is very small benefit to the departments federal student aid office. The fsa provided guidance that allowed for applicants to submit and signed copy for the year 2021. This was very helpful from previous guidance that had required an irs return transcript that was very burdensome for many of my constituents particularly those that come from low income households. So we saw previously that these applicants were more likely to be selected for verification, which ultimately led to less completed fafsa applications. I guess a quick answer or whether or not a change in required documentation is necessary in your view. Senator, ill take that. So quick answer, yes, a permanent change to allow flexibility in the way students meet verification is a temporary fix. To really better target and perhaps get to the point where we can eliminate this back end process. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator murkowski. Senator warren. By now i think all of us agree this is good idea, but four hearings . Since the republicans took control of the Senate Nearly 6 years ago weve not had one single hearing in this committee on the student debt crisis. Instead of spending more time on how to make it easier for students to borrow more money i think we ought to focus on how to deal with the 1. 6 trillion in debt that is crushing millions of people. And i think thats particularly urgent because Student Loan Debt is disproportionately a serious problem for black and brown communities especially as the covid19 pandemic and economic crisis also disproportionately hits the same communities. I believe its time to explore Bold Solutions like broad student debt cancellation. Congress should do that. But even if congress doesnt cancel Student Loan Debt the president and secretary of education could do that right now. So dr. Scott clayton, just how bad is the student debt crisis for black and brown families . Its really shockingly bad. Even prior to the pandemic nearly half of all black student loan borrowers would experience a student loan default. Its so bad a black College Graduate a bachelors degree is more likely to experience a default than a wite college drop out. And unfortunately these stats might get worse due to the pandemic. And dr. Long, what are the consequences of the student debt crisis for students who are still in school . Does debt have an impact on their completion . Thank you, senator warren, for highlighting this issue. Yes, its affecting not only attainment but quality of experience. The Research Shows lower gpas, lower academic engagement, taking advantage of resources, reduction in course load. And then the students that affects their ability to save and building. I know you agree with me simplifying the fafsa form is good idea, but do you also agree student debt cancellation is the most efficient and effective solution to the right now . I do agree. We absolutely need to talk about student debt cancellation to address the crisis in Student Loans. Thank you. I appreciate that. I request unanimous consent to submit into the hearing record a letter from the Harvard Law School project on predatory student lending. It details the Legal Authority of the secretary of education to cancel Student Loans without congressional action. Millions of people are getting crushed by Student Loan Debt, and thats why i have a bill to broadly cancel Student Loan Debt as well. Mr. Chairman, do i have permission to enter this into the record . So ordered, senator warren. Thank you. Even if congress doesnt act, leader schumer and i introduced a resolution this morning calling on President Trump and secretary devos, to use the Authority Congress has already given them to broadly cancel Student Loan Debt now. It is time to get this done. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator warren. Senator scott. Well go to senator jones. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And let me also echo what senator casey said. I very much appreciate the comments youve made about senator murray and senator murrays comments about you. For those of you who may think we have a cynical washington, d. C. I can assure folks that heard those comments that they are heartfelt. And as someone whos worked with both of you in a really close way particularly on this issue with you, senator alexander, very heartfelt and appreciated. And thats its been such a joy for me to work on this committee over the last 2 1 2 years. So i really appreciate everything thats been commented on today and our work together. I would have to say, senator alexander, i appreciate especially the work weve been doing together on this really important issue. In alabama there are so many kids that just walk away from the fafsa. I think in 2018 i saw statistics that chose to 50 of our High School Seniors just walk away from the fafsa leaving a lot of grant money on the table. And not just money for loans but grant money and scholarships on the table. So one of the issues weve seen with the implementation of the bill weve pass fed for the futures act, it seems to be the department of education is going to be pretty slow to implement this. Im not sure who is best to answer this, but im trying to figure out what youre hearing about why its going to take so long. I completely agree with senator alexander, if we could get our bill passed to do a complete overhaul and get them implemented at the same time, that is the solution. Given the pandemic and this congress its going to be tough to get that done. So im assuming we may end this congress simply with what weve got, which is the futures act. Whys it taken so long, and what can we do especially in congress to speed that up so it can be ready earlier inill open up for anybody that might want to answer that. Senator, ill kick off here. What we are hearing is that there are complications in Data Security and in use of federal Tax Information. So concerns about how that information is and can be shared between the departments, and then with filers and even with family members who are part of an application. What congress can do is clarify its intentions of how that information can and should be used and help us certainly respect and care for data that we understand is sensitive but to use it widely. Would anybody else like to share anything theyve heard or just simply ask how important would it be for congress to do whatever is necessary to get that implemented earlier if at all possible . Scepter, thank you. This is rachel. As a person out of school we would certainly love to see the future act and any further simplication implemented as soon as possible. The longer it takes the longer we have the help people through difficult form and the more risk we have that students dont complete the process especially during this time of pandemic and extra need. So we appreciate that support. It is hard to understand how all the sausage making at a very complex organization like federal student aid works, but certainly the sooner the better. I would just add to emphasize a sense of confusion about why it does need to take so long and some pressure may be necessary to see that along because its a huge frustration to go through all the work of getting that legislation and then not have the urgency to get it implemented as soon as possible. Well, thank you all. A lot of my questions have been answered. Let me just say, again, were going to continue to work on this. It is something really important to all these states. I may following this hearing get with senator murray and senator alexander to see what we can do to try to push that date up somehow, some way. You know, senator collins also on this committee and i got a bill passed recently that would provide some extra security for the irs by creating a volunteer program for, you know, a pin number for the irs that would create an extra level of security. Maybe we could work to try to help implement that through some of this somehow, someway so we can give all parents and all those affected with this the level of comfort they need for the security. So in this day and age the United States government of people ought to be able to keep that information secure. So, again, thank you mr. Chairman for this work on this issue. Thank you for including me on this work and on this issue. I very much appreciate that. Ive enjoyed it very much, and thank tuesday all our witnesses for being here today. Thank you, senator jones. And thanks for your leadership and sponsorship both on the future act and on this legislation reducing 53 questions from the fafsa. Senator rosen. Thank you, mr. Chairman, Ranking Member. Thank you to all the witnesses for being there for our students, educating them and caring about them. And mr. Chairman, i want to thank you for your leadership on this committee in the United States senate and for welcoming me here to both of them, and really appreciate that. I just want to talk a little bit about whats going on in nevadach with so many students across nevada theyre facing financial pressures due to the pandemic of covid19. So removing barriers, increasing access to needs based programs is just critical. Unfortunately low income students, first generation students have longfaced obstacles when applying for student aid. Since the start of the pandemic the number of students completing fafsa has decreased from pell eligible students with the greatest decreases coming from families with incomes of 25,000 or less. Ditionally the students with the greatest barriers are also the students most likely to be able to complete a burdensome secondary Income Verification which results in many eligible students missing out on thaer important Financial Aid need to reach their goals. So what modifications to the family Income Verification process can be made to students facing the changing financial landscape . I think we have to ask why we verify so many families in the first place. The rate of verification has hovered around 30 . The department has talked about lowering it to 22 . These are much higher rates than we see on income tax verification which are in the single digits, and weve not shown its necessary or effective as most of the families we verify show little to no change in their ultimate eligibility. Although many fail to complete it because it is difficult to obtain the forms they need. In addition i think that research as my colleagues have mentioned has shown that verifying the lowest income families, those with means tested benefits or qualify for auto zfc is particularly ineffective and yet at school weez continue to see those students selected over and over again. And those are the students who often have the most difficulty getting the forms they need to complete the process. So if i could make two recommendations they would be very simple. Well, three. One, lets implement the future act so we dont have to ask them questions because we know already from their tax forms what their income is to really look at the formula and select fewer people. And three, lets not concentrate on the lowest income families but more on the Business Owners or middle income families where we see actual change and do verification . Thank you. I want to just really quickly ask a question about our student debts and our dreamers. And like you said a lot of reasons people dont fill out fafsa, a lot of confusion. A lot of our veterans dont realize they might be able to get fafsa, weve got a lot of Daca Recipients out there. We intentionally provided flexibility to determine how to distribute funding. And so we have to be sure we get it out there. This problem im going to ask you, how do you think we should be sure that our student vets, our Daca Recipients, how can we be sure they understand their eligibility particularly those student vets they have more access. Its a little bit of a complicated question since particularly dreamers have different eligibility depending on what state they live in. I think it would be easier for everyone if we had some consistent eligibility for students who have been in the country since they were very small. For veterans i would really like to see more outreach and more understanding for them that their Veterans Benefits often do not offset the other aid theyre eligible for or that they could save those benefits for graduate schools, and i should hope we could the list the department of defense in helping us craft a message together that would let them know its worth their time to apply for aid. I thank you and look forward to working with you to doing all those things. Thank you, senator rosen. Senator hassen . Well, thank you mr. Chair and Ranking Member, for having this hearing. And mr. Chair, i just want to echo what youve heard from the witnesses and our Ranking Member today. I want to thank you for your leadership, and thank you for your outreach to me as a new senator when i started in particular. And we have had some candidate exchanges, but weve always had productive ones and that really speaks to our leadership. So thank you so much for everything youve done for so many. And i want to thank the witnesses for being here today as well. Jpt to start with a question to ms. Cook and ms. Feldman. In may i sent a letter to secretary devos, tim scott and booker urging the department of education to ensure that students who have been financialally impacted by covid19 received the Financial Aid they are now eligible for. While the administration has since clarified that Financial Aid administrators may use what is known as professional judgment to adjust a students Financial Aid eligibility if their financial situation or Employment Status has changed, the department has continued to count Unemployment Benefits toward a students earned income calculation. Something that simply doesnt make sense given the uncertain duration of the benefits and the economic disruption that the need for the benefits represent. The department of education has also failed to conduct any outreach to recently unemployed individuals about their Higher Education options which the Obama Administration did during the last economic session. We need to do more for our current and future students. So ms. Cook, and ms. Feldman, what are your recommend asians for how congress and the department of education can address the challenges students are facing while navigating their circumstances . And well start with you, ms. Cook. Thank you for your question and attention to a rapidly changing situation. Many of our students do find themselves or family members with changes in employment, Catastrophic Health care bills and, unfortunately in some situations, the death of a parent. This is a lot to manage and certainly triggers for professional judgment. We appreciate the flexibility that has been put in place so far but agree with you that more can be done to better support our students particularly those with unemployment. Ill yield some time to ms. Feldman. Thank you. Ms. Feldman . Thank you. I think youve made some accurate points and it would certainly help students and aid administrators to have a lot of clarity about the flexibility allowed in professional judgment including not counting temporary means of support such as Unemployment Benefits. I think youll see in my written testimony that i call on you as members of congress to codify into law the provisions that were made in the 2009 colleague letter which allowed for both of those provisions and protected schools from getting professional Program Reviews from the department of Education Base said on the number of professional judgments done during a pandemic or other crisis such as this one. Thank you very much for those responses. The covid19 pandemic has devastated businesses across new york and across the country and put a Record Number of people out of work. Ive heard from constituents struggling to find work in their field and need upscale training programs. We need to eprovide robust support to burgers at businesses adapting during and after this pandemic and institutions of Higher Education play a significant role in this effort. With this shift in work force and Business Needs can you speak to the role of Higher Education and economic recovery and how employers and Industry Leaders may partner on some of these initiatives . Thank you, senator, for your question. I will say that Higher Education is absolutely critical to economic recovery. It is in fact, one of the benefits of the fafs pg whether you look at certain communities around the country, lets take san diego, impressive partnership to create worker pathways. They actually combine with an income share agreement that says if you finish this program in need in San Diego County you wont have to pay for your education. And so if youre at an income below a certain level. That will complete our questions from senators, but let me go to senator murray and see if she has any Closing Remarks or additional questions. I dont have any additional questions, but let me just thank the witnesses for joining us today. And mr. Chairman, thank you you again to you for all the work youve done to sumplify the fafsa. As ive said earlier it is really thank tuesday your leadership weve taken Great Strides in making fafsa easier to navigate. But its still clear we have a lot more to do to make sure our students can access the pell grants available to them. Weve got to make sure the Financial Aid process is easier for these students by making the verification process less of a burden, determining pell grants based on a federal Poverty Level so more students and families can easily know the amount of help theyre going to receive and only implementing the future act, and we absolutely have to address whats top of mind for so many Higher Education students and families and that of course is the covid crisis. Mr. Chairman, im very proud of the successful bipartisan work weve done on fassa simplication in the past. I hope in the coming weeks we can continue in that vein to address the critical challenges in front of us. Thank