Transcripts For CSPAN3 House Hearing On Amtraks Response To COVID-19 Pandemic 20240712

Here on cspan3, well take you live now to a hearing on amtraks response to the coronavirus pandemic. This hearing is already in process. While possibly only saving amtrak 213 million. Overall, the damage could top 3 billion if amtraks planned nine months of Degraded Service stretches another quarter to a full year. Ill finish. Thank you. The amtrak community was hit especially hard because several airlines say theyll drop service when the c. A. R. E. S. Act expires. Thats 67 cities facing air cutbacks. Nearly half, 31 of them, would all flew the same, sacramento, tampa, these routes touch nearly every corner of our country. On the empire builder on eight states from illinois to washington, those towns face a nearly 400 million blow. The north south city of new orleans between louisiana now produce nearly 134 million in economic benefits. It could wipe out as much as 88 million of that. Simply put, this drastically reduced utility of a nationwide Network Operating three days a week, making it impossible or difficult will gut the services and snatching as much as 3. 1 billion from our hardworking heartland during a historic recession for the sake of only 213 million in savings to amtrak seems to us to be bad public policy. It also ignores history. Amtrak tried this in 1994. It didnt work then. Its not going to work now. Passengers travel for the same reasons today as they did then. And theyll skip the ride for the very same reasons. In closing, we think that there is a better way. Cut some costs while preserving Daily Service by running fewer trains. Fewer coaches mean less maintenance, but continued service means continued opportunity to earn revenue. The largest revenue contributor since march. Congress didnt let the federal Highway Administration close highways four days out of seven. Congress shouldnt stand by and impose these restrictions on hard working towns, towns in which many cases can afford it the least. Strong investment in amtrak could position our country for recovery at the least, preserving service will stave off disaster in flyover countries. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mathews. Well now move on to members questions. Each member will be recognized for five minutes. And i will begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. Mr. Flynn, ms. Griffin mentioned in her testimony and i was made aware that amtrak town hall on july 29th that you attended, your team say that the 401 k match will return for Management Employees on october 1st and the pay cut for certain Management Employees that they took will be restored in early november. Can you confirm this information is accurate . If it is, do you think its appropriate to restore the 401 k matches and pay for Management Employees when youre furloughing over 2,000 employees and cutting vital Train Service . Thank you for your question, mr. Chairman. So yes, it is accurate that during that town hall meeting we discussed restoring the 401 k match. At the beginning of the pandemic, we took the initiative to reduce expenses and i referred to that in my remarks. And so we did cut the 401 k match for all Management Employees. The 401 k program that was put in place some years earlier when we eliminated the defined benefit pension plan, and in exchange for eliminating what was viewed to be a very attractive pension plan with a much lower cost 401 k match, we cut those expenses at the beginning of the pandemic. We thought that it was an appropriate action to take because while it would have impact to total compensation for our employees, it wasnt immediate takehome pay. We have heard loud and clear from our employees that taking that match away had Significant Impact to them. And i will point out, of course, there were no cuts to any agreement benefits at that time. So considering the equities of the situation, it made sense to us to restore the 401 k match at the beginning of october. On a voluntary basis, we well, for me, on a voluntary basis, i elected to take no compensation when i joined the company at the beginning of april 15th, in view of what the economic crisis that our economy was suffering. We took substantial cuts across our management ranks, and when i compare those cuts to reductions that other Management Teams and other Transportation Industries have taken, i believe those cuts were larger and deeper in terms of how far down the management ranks they went. Mr. Flynn, i do appreciate that. I appreciate that youre taking no compensation. The question is should this be restored to management while were furloughing frontline workers . My view is were restoring a basic level of pay considering all of the equities to insure that we also retain now a Smaller Group of management people as a result of furloughs so we can probable run the railroad. I think that thats not going to be looked on well just for the equity, but lets move on. If Congress Gives you the 4. 8 billion by october 1st, you indicated, will you commit on the record to rescinding the furloughs and rescinding the cuts to longer Distance Service . Ill commit that well do as directed by congress, and if that 4. 9 million instructs us to rescind the furloughs and rescind the service cuts, well do that. And if you do not if congress does not provide any additional supplemental funding in a covid relief bill or appropriations package, what other cuts can we expect for workers and service . Excuse me, mr. Chairman, is that providing the 2 billion and nothing else or providing nothing . Lets say if 2 billion was provided. We would be in a very, very difficult position as a company, mr. Chairman. As i mentioned in my testimony, our cash burn is about 250 million a month right now. And so we would have to make very dramatic reductions across the company in order to not to stave off bankruptcy, i would argue, in the long term. Certainly very, very significant challenges to run this company or operate this company on behalf of our customers. And with our employees in the near term. Substantial reductions in all services, and perhaps elimination of some services if thats the cash burn were having, and no supplemental funding. It would be good to see what those would be, just as were looking at the providing of funding. As i said, i support providing the funding, but we want to know what that would what additional cuts may be, and im running out of time here, so for the purpose of the record, are you willing to work with me to amicably resolve some local issues i have, including the Chicago Union station contract dispute between amtrak and metra in illinois request for a new amtrak stop on the lincoln service. So i just wanted to get you on the record, will you work with me to resolve these help to resolve these local issues . I certainly will, mr. Chairman. And as i mentioned, i did meet with metras ceo, and we talked about some very useful measures we can take and well continue to work to resolve our differences. Appreciate it. My time has expired. I will now recognize mr. Crawford for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Flynn, in your written testimony, you stated the leading cause of delays to our Long Distance trainicize the failure of some of our host railroads to comply with this longstanding legal obligation to provide amtrak trains with preference over their tracks. Can you clarify that remark . The data i have examined shows it accounts for a small amount of the delays, at least on the lines i examined . Thank you, Ranking Member crawford. I think we stand by our remarks. We publish every month in our statistics which are Available Online the number of minutes of delay that we experience on each of our host railroads. And have done that for quite a long period of time. We regularly and routinely find passenger trains are not given preference over Freight Railroads, and thats what our statistics in our experience reflect. And thats why in part we were encouraged in the invest act that theres language there that would provide us a private right of action to be able to enforce our statutory rights. I have been closely following the metrics and standards, rule making out of the fra, understanding the need for preserving amtrak ridership and providing amtrak riders with a safe and positive experience. It would make sense to revisit current schedules to account for actual run time. You could explain how your working with Freight Railroads on lengthening some of your schedules in light of the new fra metric. Were working with the fra to have the rule finally issued. That hasnt been issued yet. Were in regular routine correspondence with the fra about the schedules in place and how they could be adjusted. We have a team of people who are simply dedicated to the working relationship with our class 1 railroads and they speak with the class 1 railroads regularly and in some cases at least once a week, on the different schedules we may have. You could commit that amtrak is willing to lengthen schedules where it is appropriate . I dont im not sure i could answer that question. Im not sure what appropriate means. We have a schedule requirement of 80 on time arrival within 30 minutes. I dont know what appropriate means with the railroad a point of view. We need to dig into the details and a final rule on standards and metrics for me to be able to do that. Okay. All right. Thank you. I yield back, there chairman. Thank you. Chair will now recognize mr. Series for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. You know, a lot has been made of the use of enhanced cleaning procedures, advanced air filtration systems, and limit reservations, a lot of cleaning. What has been the feedback from Rail Passengers . In this process. Thank you for that question. The feedback has been very positive. Both in terms of our Customer Service satisfaction, i should say surveys, and focus groups that we have with our customers. We have regular focus groups virtually with our most frequent passengers. And i could say also anecdotally, i ride our trains between new york and d. C. Quite regularly. I have yet to speak with our on board staff and customers and we receive positive so youre meeting with passengers, members. Im certainly available always to meet with anyone representing our customers. And as i mentioned in my remarks and in my filed testimony, we continue to investigative what more we could do to enhance that environment. So they are certainly aware of your efforts . I believe they are. And we continually communicate all of the steps that were taken, all of the different actions that weve made different actions that weve not only taken in terms of cleaning and the cleaning protocol but weve enhanced our communications with our customers to give them more information about service, about the trains, for example, if you were to book a train today you could understand what that level of the booking is and you may find that you want to book another train which has fewer passengers on it. Those are the kind of enhancements we provide and we communicate it. And have you broken it down for state, for example, new jersey, how many people will lose their jobs if this were to go through . So, we talked about 1,950 furloughs that were going to announce. Theyre going to occur in october. And they are by craft and will depend on that it could well be that a person works in new york but resides in new jersey. So that is further work that we need to do. But we can certainly provide that. Because i represent the northern part of the state, which is already congested and a lot of people work on amtrak. So im just wondering what the impact is going to be in that area of people being furloughed . Yeah, i want to get back to you with the accurate information. But i do understand that the number of employees who will be furloughed who identify themselves as new jersey residents is a relatively small number. And i mean, something less than 25. For new jersey . Yes, sir. So i assume that these all right. But what we will is that the reason because of the lease cargo the reason, is it because it is the northeast corridor and it is very active in that area . Yes. But well be happy provide the Committee Staff with the numbers by state. So all of the members can have that information. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chair will now recognize mr. Gray for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i appreciate it. And my question is for mr. Flynn. And that given your very optimistic, given your back ground in the private sector that youll be able to meet that mandate for profitability and being successful and i know it is obviously not an ideal situation to take over an unprofitable business in the middle of a pandemic. If that is not that makes it that much more, but you could give the committee your perspective on how you or your ideas on how you are going to be able to achieve that mandate and hopefully turn amtrak around and make it profitable . Thank you, Ranking Member grays. That is a great question. What we fundamentally believe, of course, is that were in a pandemic. Earlier in the year we might have thought that the shape of the recovery would look perhaps like a v. Or a u. , but thats not the case. What we believe, of course, is that the service we provide is essential, that there is real demand for our service and has we come out of that pandemic, there will be a combination of regaining prior customers as well as attracting new customers to our services. And were engaged in some of that now. At the end of fiscal year 19 as a company we had a dramatically reduced losses on adjusted operating income basis and well on track to have a first positive year in 2020. What that tells me is that our customers value the service that we provided and the results were such that the amount of earning we were generating in 19 and into 2020, meant that the supplemental grants that we could get from congress, we could use for Capital Investment and infrastructure that is desperately needed here. And i think that future is out there for amtrak. I think it is a few years away because we still dont know the shape of the recovery. And our intention is growth and in the corridor and from our states in our Long Distance net york and in particular on several metropolitan or many metropolitan corridors that exist on that network. So i was excited to have the opportunity to lead amtrak and when i accepted the position at the beginning of the year i had a belief of what the future could be and i still hold that belief. It is just further out in the future now than i might have thought of in early march. Thank you. Appreciate it. Again, thanks for your testimony and i yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Payne for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman for the opportunity to speak this day and welcome all of the witnesses. The c. A. R. E. S. Act and the payroll grants to airlines and their contractors so that airline employees would be kept on payroll and avoid furloughs. The term of that requirement is set to expire at the end of this month. Do you think that any c. A. R. E. S. Act extensions, any extension of the c. A. R. E. S. Act payroll grant provision should be extended to amtrak employees and that is to all of the witnesses . Mr. Flynn . Okay, thank you, sir. Wasnt sure if you wanted me to respond first. So we did receive just over a billion dollars in the c. A. R. E. S. Act. We have not furloughed any of our employees at this point in time. The furloughs that we have announced take effect in october. In our supplemental grant discussions and submissions we have identified the amount of supplemental funding that would be required for us to avoid furloughs and then retain the [ inaudible ]. Okay. Anyone else . Yes, mr. Congressman, we would definitely support extending the c. A. R. E. S. Act. In my testimony before, the c. A. R. E. S. Act funding and protections for received and Long Distance frequencies, i believe these numbers of amtrak so we could support that. And mr. Payne, would you like to add to that from the point of view of the Rail Passengers. Our passengers really do rely on those front line employees, particularly when you start looking at the number of disabled folks, elderly folks, people who need that extra hand. We really would very much hate to see anything happen to some of those front line folks. Our friends at tcu and twu, and not only on the trains but in the call centers, example now if youre looking at the strange connection pattern that were going to see of three times weekly service, and the drastic connections in chicago, planning a trip is going to become incredibly complicate the exercise and having Expert Employees on the other side of that phone line to make that connection clear to a passenger is also going to be very important. So whether youre looking at folks on trains or dealing with customers in remote ways, we could be very supportive of those folks to have that. Thank you. And mr. Flynn, i understand that covid19 has upended the Transportation Industry across the country and cost amtrak billions in lost revenue. And we know the plans to further go excuse me, those 2,000 employees approximately 10 of the workforce at the end of september. Now im sure the furloughs are your attempt to mitigate these revenue losses. Were here because amtrak has requested 4. 9 billion in additional funding from congress to deal with the revenue shortfall. Amtrak is a Public Entity and the profits should not be the priority. Passengers service must be priorities. What would happen if congress failed to provide the funding youre requesting . Thank you, congressman payne. First, i full agree with you that safety is our number one priority and safety informs everything that we do regardless of a level of funding, a level of funding affects the level of operations but never the level of safety. If we are not able to achieve supplemental funding as ive implied to the previous congressman in his question, that makes substantial Service Reductions across the company and also means we would have to adjust the workforce that we have. In addition, were also having to reduce our number of capital expenditure, whether that is [ inaudible ] and some of the other longer term Capital Projects such as our bridges and tunnels. And our Capital Program for reductions in employee and a reduction in [ inaudible ]. Very difficult choices that we have to make. Okay. Well, thank you and my time is up and i yield back mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Payne. I want to remind everyone to make sure you mute when you are not speaking and hopefully mr. Flynn, also the connection seemed to be going down and hopefully it will get back to the way it was. The chair will now recognize mr. Perry for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman and ill address my questions to mr. Flynn as well. And in your written testimony, it states that amtrak was on track to generate passenger revenues exceeding operating expenses in fy 2020 for the First Time Ever prior to the covid19 outbreak. In other words, amtrak was going to turn a profit before covid19 devastated ridership and if true that would be welcome news to the taxpayers and i dont think i need to remind you that the american taxpayers provided amtrak with over 100 billion in subsidies over the nearly 50year history. And i heard you talk to the Ranking Member about the same claim, if i could use that term. Im just wondering, could you explain, then, why amtrak counts state funded operations subsidies as passenger revenue but did not count federal subsidies in the same manner. But it seems to me that im not familiar with this accounting standard whereby you put things out and leave certain things in. And also explain why amtrak does not include depreciation costs for unaudited monthly performance report but includes the costs in total expenses for amtraks audited Financial Reports. These practices appear to be done in order, in my opinion, to hide the amount of losses amtrak runs every year. But i certainly want to give you the benefit of the doubt and how do these Accounting Practices improve the ability of amtrak, congress or the American People for that matter to evaluate amtraks financial viability . Thank you, congressman perry. You could hear me okay. I do have you loud and clear at the moment. Okay. Good. Well, thank you very much. It gets to the Financial Reporting of the company and our way of reporting on a gaap basis or adjusted operating income basis. The numbers that i refer to in my answer to several of the other members so far were indeed talking into terms of adjusted operating income, which in the private sector it would often be called ebidta and this does not include depreciation and so that is right. And the longest difference is the exclusion of ebidta for discussion purposes. Many Companies Across various industries talk about ebidta or some form of adjusted operating income to provide investors, if were talking about publicly traded company, to provide investors with as accurate of a view of the core operating results of the company. But gaap, of course, is the bottom line and the biggest number is depreciation. Which largely addresses the catchup in investing that the company is doing in fleet and other infrastructure that hasnt been done for many, many years. But we report both. And both are available on the amtrak website. Im just going to be because i want to move on to a couple of other questions, i remain unconvinced about the difference between state and federal subsidies and how their reported. I dont see the difference. And i dont think many of my bosses, mie constituents do either. And they request 4. 9 billion in anticipated expenses for fy 2021 so invest and operate in the network. According to amtraks own figures, total expenses for fy 19 were 4. 19 billion and could you explain why this is a vast difference. That is a lot of money. What is the difference then. 4. 19 billion to 4. 9 billion. I wan to come back to your state question for just a second, please. The state revenues is are reported in other revenue and it is what the state pays us to actually perform service. So we operate quite a few statesupported trains and for example in pennsylvania the harrisburg to philadelphia line, the keystone is a state supported train. They sell the capacity, the ticke tickets, they put a price on the tickets and pay us the operating cost of running the train and maintaining track infrastructure. And based onernston young, our outside auditor, they provided us the accounting guidance that said that is where you should probably account for the revenues or money you receive from the state because were providing a physical service. Wed be happy to meet with your office to provide more detail but were out of time. But without being difficult, could you please repeat the question i was the answer of your prior question when you were asking that question so i apologize. Im out of time but i would like to know the difference between the 4. 9 and the 4. 198 billion expense for 2019. Why is there such a delta there. That is a a lot of money and im trying to figure out what the difference is there. I think the expense there is a total expense on a gaap basis. So there is hundreds of millions of dollars of depreciation in that number. The 4. 9 billion request as we go forward on fy 21, first of all, addresses the revenue shortfalls that were experiencing as a result of the drop in ridership, it includes monies, if congress so directs, that we do not furlough employees and so it could be covered in that, it includes operating expenses for the Long Distance network if were directed to operate a sevenday service. It also includes monies for the states and commuter railroads based on what they have told us they what they need and what revenues, frankly, they do not have but still want us to continue to operate at a higher level of service. Wed be very happy to meet with your office or our staff and provide greater detail since were out of time on that question, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i yield the balance. Thank you. The chair will now recognize miss fletcher for five minutes. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman. And thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. This is an important hearing and im glad to have the witnesses here to testify about the covid19 pandemics impacts that are evident across so many sectors. From the Energy Industry here in my district to Transportation Systems across the country, sectors are under strain from the disruption and the danger that the pandemic presents. And amtrak, as weve discussed and heard about, already has plans to furlough 700 on Board Service workers beginning in october because of the uncertainty in funding they face and that is something that unfortunately were seeing across the country and is of particular concern here i know for this committee. So while congress did provide in the c. A. R. E. S. Act, im concerned that the Million Dollars that was provided has fallen short when amtraks overall revenue was down 82 in july compared to 2019 and where the ridership of the Long Distance routes is 61 as weve discussed already this morning. So this was an important lifeline, but we still dont know and if the amtrak still has yet to provide detailed accounts of how it spent the funds from the c. A. R. E. S. Act. So im concerned but would also like to know how and when we will know thousand the c. A. R. E. S. Act funding has been spent. So mr. Flynn, you could first address when a detailed accounting of c. A. R. E. S. Act funding could be completed and made available to congress and to the public . Well, thank you, thank you miss fletcher. Were closely tracking every dollar that we spend under the c. A. R. E. S. Act and the amtrak oig issued a not a full report but interim update on amtraks expenditure and recording of tracking of those expenditures just several weeks ago. In addition, we provide the fra and the Committee Staff with detailed accounting of how weve expended so far the cares money and we would be happy to report those though you because we are reporting that now on an ongoing basis. Yes. That would be useful i think for all of us to have that and to address this question of the funding. Also, in your testimony, mr. Flynn, you mentioned the metrics amtrak uses to decide when to bring back daily long Distance Service on each route and the three factors are Public Health by covid hospitalization rates and future demand, whether customers are booking near the same rate as 2019 and the current performance or how close ridership is for claimed projections. I believe that cutting long Distance Service to the three days per week may unavoidably slash demand because the Service Becomes less convenient for passengers and certainly we heard some concerns from our colleagues in the northeast corridor, we know in other parts of the country where there is less frequent service there is an impact on demand. So given that predicament, how will amtrak guarantee the long term prospects of the daily Long Distance routes . Thank you. Our view is well continually evaluate our long Distance Services with the view to restoring our long Distance Services and that is our commitment. And you talked about the three areas we want to look at. First of all just the state of the pandemic. Has it subsided or are we in a situation where we have a phase two or a second wave of the pandemic and that is just practical and common sense. The other thing in that Public Health that were going to be looking at is whether there is, indeed, an effective vaccine over vaccines that have been developed and are also effectively being distributed and made available to the public. Because we believe that is absolutely the Inflection Point as to when the public is going to feel safer about traveling again. In terms of level of ridership, it is comparing the level of ridership against a low level of capacity that already exists. So were not going to compare the level of ridership or future demand in 21, against 19, because theyre simply not comparable and the ratio is the level of utilization or load factor that well be looking at would le load factor against already reduced capacity or frequency. So it would account for perhaps a lower level of ridership as a result of the lower level of frequency. And then the third area, congresswoman, that well look at it our state of the company and what level of funding have we received. So i think the three pretty common sense metrics to look at, it is something that well look at on a continual basis and our goal here is grow our company, not shrink our company. And as we come through the pandemic and see demand improve and we clearly want to grow the company and that would include certainly our Long Distance network. And one other point ill make, were certainly going to need the help and the cooperation of our host railroads in order to not ome restore service, but grow service. Thank you. Thank you so much. I have used up all of my time so i would thank you for your answers and thank all of our witnesses for being here and i will yield back. Thank you. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Rodney davis, rodney, we hope that youre doing well. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Appreciate that. And great to be with you. Sorry i couldnt get on the call earlier. Had Something Else already previously scheduled. Mr. Flynn, welcome. Great to see you again. I look forward to continuing to work with you in this new capacity of yours. I dent dont know if youre aware that one of my constituents, one of my local mayors has been nommin ainated service on your board of directors, mr. Coos and i hope they could confirm him so he could get to work. He knows the issues with amtrak in illinois inside and out. Im proud to have him servicing with you and i look forward to you and he working together. I know that this is a tough time as my colleagues have mentioned. As you mentioned in your testimony, mr. Flynn. Financially for amtrak, passengership, ridership, those numbers have gone down. But now i think it is the time to address some of the institutional issues that exist with Ontime Service for amtrak while the Passenger Ship and the ridership is not at levels where it is impacting them. We have an issue with the saluki express and the illini express with Central Illinois on time service and always a conflict between the local railroad, who owns those tracks, and Amtrak Service and it seems like a constant game of back and forth. Now id like to get your commitment to work with the railroad, especially in those two lines, to try to address the short shun issue that has been driving some of these Ontime Service issues when the Passenger Ship is higher and what are you doing now with ridership down to address some of those concerns, mr. Flynn . Thank you, congressman davis. It is good to see you again. We are well you raise an excellent point. So with lower levels of train operations, indeed our level of on time performance was frankly improved and some of the lower levels are indeed class 1 railroads which suggests improvement is available and achievable and excited to see it in the legislation, the right of private action. We are specifically in illinois in discussion with the Canadian National on levels of service and on operations. Certainly for the illini and the saluki and for other operations that we have in and out of chicago. And our belief is while covid certainly has created challenges for the long Distance Services, frankly all of our other services, the number one issue we have in long Distance Service is cooperation with the class 1 railroads to deliver a much higher level of ontime performance. I personally have spoken with the ceo of Canadian National but our teams are working with them on a regular basis. I believe it is solvable. But it has to be solved and it hasnt been. Well, i appreciate that. And agree with you, mr. Flynn. I hosted a Community Round table with representatives of amtrak and of the cn in champagne, illinois, and urbana, illinois, a few months before covid hit and i what sured by the cm and by amtrak that were this close to the Technology Advancement that would make sure were ready to address the on time performance of the two lines in particular which have abysmal on time performance measures. I hope as we move forward that you could reiterate to the cn and i will that we hope this technology could be tested now just to see if it addresses some of the short line issues on those two lines. If were not testing it now and there is not the cooperation now, im afraid were going back to the same old, same old once we get there. So if i could be helpful in urging the cn it work with you on testing this technology, please let me know or if you have any other ideas, i would like to give you the rest of my time to make those ideas known. Thank you, sir. So we certainly understand that testing that needs to be accomplished with the short shunting situation and the folks that are going to test that are from the u. K. , and im gotting to blame everything on covid, but this is one situation where i believe covid19 has it an impact to get this testing done. Certainly something that we want to do. And our job certainly is to improve the level of service everywhere and certainly on these routes. Well, great. I just got off another call with members of parliament from the u. K. So maybe we could get some get the technology installed and provide the Technical Assistance via zoom. Im sure chairman lipinski could help us with that. I yield back my time. I took it all. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Well now move on to mr. Mallin owski, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you mr. Flynn. I could only begin to imagine what it is like to take this leadership position at amtrak at the moment of such crisis when ridership is down 95 . And i want to tell you how much we appreciate how much responsibility you are bearing on yours right now and youre willingness to service in this job. And to take our tough questions. Were all trying to pull together and keep this extraordinary railroad strong to help it survive this crisis. I do want to come back, speaking of tough questions, though, to topic that chairman lipinski raised with you about the 401 k contributions an the furloughs. And listen to your answer, and i completely understand where youre coming from. I completely understand why an amtrak employee would want to see those contributions resume. But i think somewhat more concerned about those employees who may no longer be employees soon if theyre furloughed or lose their jobs. I ha i have constituents in that category. Just heard from one this morning, in fact. And, you know, i wonder, for example, if you believe that you have to move in this direction, why restore the full 7 . Why not 2 or 3 . Why did amtrak decide to move forward the date of restoration from january to october . Because originally you told the employees it would be january and now youre telling them october. Is this all or nothing here, given the fact that so many people may lose their jobs . Thank you for the question, congressman mallinowski. The restoration decision was a balance of the equities that were involved. The vast majority of our employees that were talking about are front line managers and supervisors who often are making less than the agreement employees that they supervise. And theyre benefits are not as rich as the benefits can be for our organized employees. We were hearing loud and clear from our Employee Base how concerned they were about the lack of the match. I had explained earlier i think to chairman lipinski that the 7 contribution is substantially less than what the contribution would be under a defined benefit plan that existed here. So it was a management jum call, sir, and i thought along with the Senior Leadership team that it seemed the right thing to do at the time. In part considering retention of the employees. It is tough to furlough anyone. It is tough to lay anyone off. I come from a Railroad Family myself. My i was 6, 7 years old, my father was furloughed and he was a locomotive engineer on the new haven engineer and i dont remember all of the details but i remember the anxiety our family felt when that happened. And as a at 6 or 7, i dont remember a lot but i do remember that period of time. So it was a difficult decision personally. We dont have that much time. Could you convey to us whether you know it now or after the hearing how much this is going to cost so that we could help evaluate this balance, because you have to balance laying people off and paying people these benefits, which they richly deserve, agree with you. But either way there is a cost and it would help us understand the balancing decision better if we knew exactly how much this would cost. Off the top of my head, i dont have the number. But i would be very happy to what about i understand amtrak does have bonus programs for management, bonus tied to performance. Well our bonuses are wiped out. No bonuses this year and our longterm incentive bonuses or the Incentive Plan is wiped out for the next three years. On a happy note, the portal bridge, the first part of the gateaway project, we got the first grant announcement from the fda, you could give us an update on moving toward the construction phase of that incredibly important project. It is incredibly important as you say. And were working closely with new Jersey Transit to ensure that the fta, the federal Transit Administration has everything they need so they could enter into the full Funding Grant agreement that is required and were also very pleased to see the d. O. T. Commit 765 million to the project and were hoping for the possible start of construction in early 2021. That is a very important project for us and for all of our customers. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mallin ow ski. We now recognize mr. Babbin for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Really appreciate it. I wanted to ask questions of mr. Flynn as well. Appreciate all of our witnesses being here. But mr. Flynn, according to the cato institute, amtrak currently received 30 cents per passenger mile and compare that to the Aviation Industry which receives a subsidy of roughly 1 cent per mile. Do you believe this is an appropriate balance here, of our passenger mile for amtrak . Thank you, sir. Im not specifically aware of the numbers but i could certainly address the question. The subsidy, we are due to be an essential service. We are receiving the subsidies as you point out. We are generating an operational on an operating income adjusted basis and in fiscal year 19 and into 20 we weren we were generating a break even, perhaps a few pennies here and there. But the operational subsidy fundamentally underpins long Distance Services. So the vast majority, if not all of the that subsidy, if we were to do it on a service line basis would be in the long Distance Service. Okay. It just seems to be a quite of a discrepancy between 30 times greater than what were seeing for the Aviation Industry. The second question would be when amtrak received over 1 billion as part of the c. A. R. E. S. Act, here in congress we were expected that this issing to avoid layoffs and furloughs. However, amtrak announced it would potentially be cutting roughly 3,700 jobs by october 1st, 2020, while increase fiscal year 2021 funding request by almost 1. 5 billion. How do you reconcile cutting those jobs while asking for a dramatic increase in the amount of 1. 5 billion . Thank you, sir. The one slightly above 1 billion that were fortunate to receive in the c. A. R. E. S. Act addressed our level of operations in fiscal year 2020. In early march, when we were first trying to gauge the impact of the level of ridership in the pandemic, we anticipated about a 50 level of ridership in fy 21 as compared to fy 19 which is our last full normal year. That simply hasnt happened. Our level of ridership is going to be about 34 of fy19. The request that we supplemental request we made in may was just about 1. 5 billion. It presupposed that we would have some level of furloughs as well as a reduction in the long Distance Service and about 500 million of cost reductions that as a Management Team we would achieve. In part through furloughs and in part through other operating expenses being reduced. Okay. And then ive got about a minute left or so. What is your plan for amtrak to increase ridership to restore services and worked toward achieving and making a profit in the next few years . I know that is a big question, but if you could answer, hit some of the high points about your plans. Thank you, sir. Well our plan is indeed to grow our company. We are going to have a challenging 2021. I dont know about 2022 at this point. But it will be difficult, i imagine. We wont see ridership levels start to return until we have a vaccine that is widely distributed in the public assumes that conditions have changed. We could restore services on our Long Distance network and restore services in the nec and we could increase the level of state supported routes and frankly many of the states were looking for increased levels of service before covid pandemic. I believe that there is the great demand and latent demand and real demand for our services after covid and i think that we can grow on new corridors as well as regain customers that we have and importantly attract new customers to our business. That is a very high level, question quick answer. But there is a lot of thought and detail behind that, sir. Okay. Thank you. My time has expired so i appreciate that very much. We wish you the very best. Thank you. And mr. Chairman, i will yield back. Thank you. Thank you. Chair will now recognize mrs. Napolitano for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. Mr. Griffin and mr. Marty, are you concerned with covid will be used as an excuse to furlough employees permanently even when ridership levels return. Thank you for the question and yes, i am. Mr. Marty . Yes, congresswoman, yes, i do believe that they will use covid as a excuse to furlough people. Quite frankly in the written brief that we just saw, theyre looking for workful concessions that were shot to us. We never heard of anything. They use that as an excuse. Mr. Flynn, do you share your budget reports with labor . Can you hear me congresswoman . Yes. Yes, we do. We keep our labor informed of really everything that we do no, your budget reports. Your budget reports. Actually your expenses. What your expending on c. A. R. E. S. Act with covid . So, yes, all of our Financial Reports are publicly available on our website. No, no, i mean directly to them. Not the public. Well, im not specifically aware that we formally send them a report every month. But we have, indeed, shared our results with labor and we speak with them, many labor leaders on a regular basis. Mrs. Griffin, do you have any comment . Miss griffin . Yes, congresswoman, we have never received any financial updates. That might be on the website but we never received them. Ms. Griffin . Ive never received any. It would be behoove the agency to share with them so they know what the money is spending, if youre doing only the 401 k , what justifies youre being able to do that. Then the next question i have, im from california and three of the five business state supported routes are in california. Has the ridership on these routes not on the northeast corridor diminished to the same ridership on north east corridor and what is being done to assist state supported routes and the workers on the routes being furloughed differently than other areas of amtrak operations . So, state supported routes in california, the they jpas are very important operations for amtrak and for the state. I know that. Congresswoman, were operating a level of Trained Service based on what the three jpas instruct us to operate. So they make the decision of how many trains we should operate during covid and post covid. So we respond to them. They make, i would say the business decision, on how many trains to operate. And our state partners are certainly working with us. But also insisting that we keep our costs low. And in part that gets to what level of Employment Base will we have to support the services. It is something that we hear about from the three jpass regularly as part of our ongoing discussion with them as we plan for 2021 levels of service, maam. All right. Well i would suggest that you communicate with all of yours, your labor organizations and with the transparency they could see why you have to do what you do. And i support amtrak, no doubt they do a great job and i support the employees. But i would wish that the organization with you being new on board that you might consider connecting with them through to allow them to see why youre doing what youre doing and not come up before us and explain it to congress. I think that the waiver of by american, we want to keep things in america. We want to do more manufacturing in america. So i suppose that there might be some need for it, but look at how important that is to your organization. And mr. Chair, i yield back. Chair will now recognize mr. Smucker for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair. I appreciate you holding this hearing. I did want to address comments to mr. Flynn as well. I have some questions as well. But first recognize that i know youve taken leadership of this organization during particularly challenging time, that the correspondent has certainly taken a tremendous toll on families, businesses and workers all across my district and across the country and i know that mr. Smucker. Yes. If youll stop for a second there. You could turn your camera on . It doesnt appear to be ill hit that when i muted myself. Sorry. That wasnt on. But so as i was saying, as individuals have shifted their work habits and travel, i know that there has been a tremendous toll on amtrak and so it has got to be a tough time to take on the leadership of an organization like that and i want to congratulate you and understand that difficult time. Rail is important to our transportation infrastructure and i support Rail Passenger service as well. It is important in my community, particularly amtrak, the keystone line runs right through the district that i represent, lancaster station is one of the busiest stations in pennsylvania, right behind 30th street station and so it is important. And youve talked a little bit about the virus impact on amtrak. But i specifically want to sort of understand what is happened on the keystone line than have some specific questions. You said ridership was down 97 i believe overall. How does that what have you seen in the keystone line . So, 97 was the immediate impact, mr. Congressman, in march, april and may. Our ridership has recovered about 20 . So were down 80 . And did amtrak similarly on the keystone line. The keystone line was the first of the state supported lines to shut down. Early in the pandemic, at the direction of septa, the keystone line was shut down for a period of time. And i think in part because of covid outbreak or incidents of covid within several of the septa operations itself. Were happy that the keystone line has been reinstated and were operating the keystone line for septa today as we speak. I dont off the top of my head know the specific level of ridership but that is something we could get back to you with. It would be similar, although the Commuter Services, several the Commuter Services were state supported lines that operate more like a commuter service. A bit higher level of ridership as people are returning to work, more people are taking leisure travel. I just dont have the number off the top of my head. Do you know how the revenue compared to last year at this time. I dont have that off the top of my head. If you could get that information, it would be great. You mention it is a state supported line. How does amtraks Capital Investment in the keystone line compare to the investment from the commonwealth . Another area id have to get you back on. I dont recall that number off the top of my head. Be glad to get that from you later. Do you know what percentage of the line is ada complaint . I dont know. I do know that were making substantial investments in ada compliance and certainly the keystone line is part of that. We have a requirement sorry, im running out of time. Do you know what percentage of the upgrade was compared for by amtrak as compared to by the state, by the commonwealth . Most of it has been paid by pennsylvania, sir. In my understanding. Do all of the amtrak revenues outside of ticket sales including fees generated from other rail line utilizers and additional revenue get reinvested back into the keystone line . If keystone revenues into keystone lines . The keystone line is part of the entire northeast corridor and so there is a very comprehensive set of rules and legislation under 212 i im going to stop you. Im at the end of my time here. I just might be able to guess what im getting at. During the committees markup earlier this year i offered an amendment that would transfer the key stein loan to the commonwealth of pennsylvania. Next week when the house returns to session, i plan to offer that amendment as a bill. I just would like to ask you, dont you think that at this time that the amtrak is losing money on the keystone line, particularly with the challenges now. Dont you through that transferring the line to the commonwealth would put amtrak in better financial standing . I dont, sir. I think making a shortterm decision over the longterm level of operations, i dont think it would be a good decision. Well, i just would hope that, as i said, i know rail service is important and i think at this time with these challenges, i think it is important that we consider outside of the Box Innovations to Better Service the American People. But i thank you for your questions and i look forward so of the answers coming forward. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Chair will now recognize mr. Cohen for five minutes. Do we have mr. Cohen . Okay. The chair will now recognize then mr. Garcia. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The penske and Ranking Member for convening this timely member. Like my colleagues im deeply concerned about the changes that were hearing about at amtrak, concerned but not surprised given the magnitude of the pandemic. I do not envy the public decisions you have to make at there time but no one could predict the onslaught when the pandemic first struck. Since march weve weve seen ridership drop and a financial disaster that covid has been for so many sectors. It has been especially clear in chicago where almost 1300 amtrak workers live and work every day, vast imagine of the front line workers at amtrak train operators an the engineers and the like are making accident liveable wages thanks to their goodpaying union jobs. For amtrak employees getting the pink slip, the decision is crippling. My kroenconstituents are feelin pain and kept the economy moving but at the risk of their own health and that of the families as well. Still were letting them down and youre letting them go in our preliminary conversations with representatives from amtrak and chicago and i was informed that nearly 200 employees in the chicagoland area were severed entirely. Mr. Flynn, would you confirm the number of furloughed verse you fired employees we could expect from this proposed action at amtrak, both nationally and in chicago or illinois . So, thank you very much for your question, congressman, garcia. Furlough would apply to any Union Represented employee so theyre not severed to the company. They have rights to return to service on a seniority basis and the recall rights or the recall rights are indefinite. The only time that a Union Employee would be severed would be if the Union Employee did not accept a return to service when so advised. And so they retain those rights. A management employee, however, did not have a right of recall. So Management Employees are severed when furloughed. I think were severing about a hundred people. Again, a very difficult decision to do, Management Employees, 100 total and they have the right to reapply or apply to be rehired one year or more after their severance. I dont have off the top of my head specific chicago numbers but would be happy to provide that. If you would. And then will these families receive any severance or extended benefits, what about health care . Well that is a very important question, thank you, sir. So we have gone beyond our contract beyond our contract requirements with our Union Represented employees and they will have full Health Care Coverage at no cost to the employee or his or her family through september 30th of 2021. For a management employee, we have a reduced cobra for them for a period of months after their served from the company. And can you briefly changing gears, shed light on the type of services we could expect in chicago. I understand several interstate routes like trips to detroit and through wisconsin will be heavily impacted. Long distance routes will come to a three day a week service. Those are are not already there. That, will go to a three day a week service from a sevenday then the state supported route will be dependent upon what the states tell us they want us to operate. We dont control that. I wanted to ask you more in depth about the thousands of people in indiana, wisconsin and counties of chicago, they rely on state supported amtrak trains to get to work or family, but ill skip that because my times running out. In the thud act, it was inacted instead of languishing in the senate under Mitch Mcconnells desk. How would that additional funding be utilized beyond the 4. 9 billion you have requested . If we were to get the 10 billion of funding that thud has spoken to, about 4. 9 billion would be used as weve already described in incremental, sup mental expense and the other 5 billion would be used across our company. Some in the northeast corridor. But the majority or greater than half in our National Network and we would use it to invest in fleet. Our bridge and tunnels work as well as in workforce training and working with our labor unions to develop internships and job training opportunities. Good. Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you for your indulgence. Thank you, mr. Garcia. The chair will now recognize mr. Fitzpatrick for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for yielding. For holding the hearing today. Thanks to all the panel for being here with us today. My question is for president marataia. I was wondering if you could explain to the committee what tcu has done for amtrak to reduce its overall cost of doing business. Thank you, mr. Chairman, for the question. First, mr. Chairman, i want to thank you for your ongoing support for the amtrak workforce. For leading a bipartisan letter along with congressman molten in support of emergency relief funding for amtrak, protections for our workers. Youve also shown time and again that you support and care about amtrak workers. Youve been standing with us u at a rally, freezing cold february in philadelphia. To answer your question, what is tcu members have been doing, most recently, our on board w k workers had received a 10 pay cut by put iting them on the actual list of guaranteed money has been reduced. And thats continuing. Many employees took voluntary leave without pay to help amtrak. Lost a weeks pay. And weve also said to amtrak, what can we do to make other side agreements, which unfortunately, we have not had any movement on. To take back go back a little further, i negotiated the last round of contract bargain. I was the lead spokesman for our coalition. They wanted major needs from us. One was relief under health care. We buckled down, rolled up our sleeves and we attacked it. By making a whole new Health Care Plan for the first five years of an employees employment before they can go into the higher level plan. Chr which, according to our numbers, generated 4 million of savings. Rolling it out to the future, ten years, generated 17 million and over 25 year, 72 million. Which amtrak needed for stability in their health care. We also increased our membership share. That during term, would have generated 20 million in money back to amtrak. Plus, on wages, they needed relief early on and we gave them that relief by adding a six month zero in front of the contract and basically taking a 1. 2518 months for the first two years of the contract. Industry standard, everywhere was getting it 1. 25. We took 1. 25 to help amtrak for the future. Future employment for our members. Weve had a long history with amtrak, sitting down. Making things work. Weve added part time agreements in our call centers and our ticket windows. Anything we could do to keep our people and this is just a small step in the right direction that we had to take time and time again to make things work. And thats why its a little disheartening to see our front line people, who, when you talk about heroes, these guys are the heroes. These brothers and sisters are your front line people. Ticket clerks. Ushers. Or cleaning the station. Doing spot cleaning so everybody stays safe. And now, risking their lives and families, have to go out or they could lose their job and then further respond to the congressmans question, i want to add im sorry congressman. The managers, if they hold rights to the union, they come back. They dont hit the street. And most managers hold rights. Pay due, come back. So that has to be taken into consideration. The tcu has always stepped up and we have many times. Hope that answers your questions. I just think its important we remember to recognize these front line workers. We hear that term used a lot. These people should be included in definition. As you just heard, they have significant skin in the game and have made tremendous sacrifices and when we talk about amtrak, we got to tastart the con vevern with the men and women on the front lines. Sir, thank you for your service. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The chair will now recognize miss norton for five minutes. Miss norton, are you there . Im sorry. Go ahead. Youre recognized for five minutes. Okay, im surrve sorry. I must have been muted. I particularly appreciate this hearing. Amtrak is on the northeast corridor and washington Union Station is its second busiest station nationwide. Of course i look to present the district. This question first to mr. Flynn. I know that continuing while competing pressures you have. Youve got a decrease in ridership. A drop in revenue. Youve got new safety protocols and yet, i know Capital Improvements continuing. For example, the tall north bridge among others. Id like you to answer how youre able to continue Capital Improvements in the middle of this economic and Health Crisis that amtrak faces . Thank you. The Capital Improvements that e we continue to improve are a improvements that have been pursued for a long time, as you know, and we believe our essential improvements for the company and for our riders where does the revenue come from for these improvements . The revenue comes from congress. Moneys that are allocated to us working jointly with the department of transportation and the federal Railway Administration and fta appropriate. So portal north, for example, is i believe 100 c have there been any cuts to make improvements . No, there havent been any cuts. The Capital Funding is fairly specific. Its what its intended to do and these are investments in hundredyearold infrastructure. Not sure if you can hear me. I can hear you, yes, i can hear you. And i understand the importance of this type of improvements. Simply trying to reconcile the funds youre not receiving for example, from congress. Heroes act. The funds you need so badly. And your ability to continue to find improvements across the country it looks like. But i take it those funds were alrea already appropriated . Yes, maam, those funds were appropriated and certainly additional consideration for Capital Expenditures in cares as well. In cares, all right. Im intrigued upon learning of partnership, i will call it, with rb, which is the maker of lysol. Miss griffin of the transport workers, earlier testified about lack of coach cleaners. Im wondering about this new partnership to strengthen disinfectant protocols for trains and stations and lounges and im interested in it because among the first to trying this out first in washington Union Station and on our pacific line, but in washington Union Station, which is one of the busiest in the northeast corridor. So could you give us some rare detail on these enhanced protocols that you will be using on amtrak in this new partnership with the maker of lysol . Yes, maam. So, lysol, the product lysol, is one of very few products that the food and Drug Administration has determined to be effective against covid19 and effective against other coronaviruses. Of different types. And what were doing is were constantly researching, seeking to understand, what more can we do. To mitigate and or essentially eliminate the potential for our customers and our employees to contract covid while in a station or on a train. And so in working out this agreement with lysol, we are, they are also working with us in providing advice to us in how we can enhance cleaning protocols that we employ on the trains and in fact, before they would sign this agreement with us, they did a very comprehensive review of what we are doing. Because while were cooperating with lysol, theyre cooperating with us. They werent going to cooperate with an entity they didnt feel had the right level of protocols and action in place. So thats, protesting the first in the stations as you pointed out now, those products could also be cruise e used on the tr. Thats reassuring. Thank you very much. My time has expired. The chair will now recognize mr. Balderson for five minutes. Thank you, chairman. Great to have mr. Flynn. Mr. Flynn, thank you for being here. Thank amtrak for their service through these trying times, but appreciate you being here. Mr. Flynn, i would like to follow up on a point my congressman, harry, made, regarding appreciation. On february 8th, 2019, amtrak announced its lowest loss of 29. 8 million for fiscal year 2019. In that same statement, amtrak went on to pick up a profit for 2020, which would be a first in amtraks near 50year history. If depreciation was included in this Financial Reporting, what would amtraks net loss have been in 2019 and what would the projection have been for fiscal year 2020 . So if we were to add back the depreciation, it would be about 790 to, say 750 to 800 million. So at an operating income basis, adjusted operating income basis, b i believe that fy 19 was a negative 29 million or near break even on that level. You would have to add back to 750 or so Million Dollars of depreciati depreciation. There may be some other expenseses. That would get you to about an 800 million loss on a gap basis. And the same level of depreciation going into fy 20. I dont know the exact number, but it would increase somewhat, but not of an order of magnitude. Good to know. Thank you. Next question would be assuming a level Playing Field including workforce protections and safety standards, would you a pose opening certain National Network routes for a competitive bid if they meant driving down costs and improving service . Well, i have certainly not a question i have considered and i appreciate youre asking that, congressman. But as a First Impression to me, no, i dont believe we will operate or open up our Long Distance routes for competitive bids at this point in time. We have a hard enough time just getting on the network. More operators create more complexity among other things and i would imagine it would be highly disruptive to us and i would imagine could be highly disruptive to the classical and railroads and i think that would also, the situation there, i think would certainly jeopardize Employment Opportunities for our current employees. Thank you. Mr. Chairman. I cant see the clock. Hows my time . Youre at two minutes. Thank you, sir. Mr. Filynn, my last question then. I understand you work for a Class One Railroad and i know you are familiar with the importance of fright railroads to our economy. How do you plan to work with all classes of Freight Railroads to strengthen the relationship between railroads and amtrak to eliminate conflicts and improve on time performance. Thank you, sir, i did have the opportunity to work for csx for several years a while ago. I believe i have a class 1 Freight Railroad perspective and i believe we can certainly coexist, but i think we can do more than coexist. I believe we can both prosper. Freight railroads are making an important contribution to our economy broadly and so does amtrak. So i think if we could have standards and metrics in place, clarify the ground rules there, obtain the right of private action, i believe we can sit down with the class 1 railroads and absolutely work out a situation that will work to an operating profile that allows for high quality on Time Operations for both our passenger operations and our host railroads for operations. Mr. Flynn, thank you very much for taking the time to be here and please pass along our thanks to amtrak employees for their front line workers and being out there and god bless them and stay safe and healthy. Mr. Chairman, i yield back my remaining time. Thank you. The chair will now recognize mr. Lonethal for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chair, and to all and to the Ranking Member and thank you to all of the panelists on this very interesting issue on talking about amtrak and future of amtrak. Id like to really focus in on amtraks response to covid19 specifically. My first questions are to miss griffin. In your written testimony, you provide a concerning account of your experience in july when you were in cat wiontact with a cov positive colleague. You took steps to notify your supervisors. To initiate protocols that would remove you from further service to avoid further spreading the virus. However, you were not immediately removed from service. And were only removed after f further intervention from supervisors. Most concerning to me is that you were told by amtrak to return to service after only ten days and were never tested for covid before returning to work. While you did not display any symptoms, we know that asymptomatic individuals spread the virus just as much, in fact, the study that has just recently been published in last months journal of american medicine e cal associations internal medicine, found asymptomatic and presymptommatic individuals carried as much of the virus as those who were exhibiting symptoms. Since your experience in july, do you know if amtrak has instituted a different process to remove possibly infected individuals from work and to insure that they are covid free before returning to work . Thank you for your question and as far as i know, no. Its the same procedures as i went through. Actually, ive been quarantined twice through amtrak with possible exposure. And its been the same protocol. Thank you. Mr. Flynn. What went wrong in miss griffins. Well, i paid very close attention to miss griffins testimony as she was describing the conditions and circumstance to the committee. And i am going to insure that we look into those details very closely. We require that our employees quarantine after we confirm exposures. Real exposures to another employee and if theyre on the road, we ask them to isolate on the return trip. And also, we require a 14day period of time. I cant comment again specifically on miss griffins circumstances. I believe she might have just said that the first time she quarantined, it was for 14 days. Again, i want to look into the details of that. I dont know if ten days was an elapsed total of 14 days since the exposure. I dont know and it wouldnt be appropriate for me to presuppose any of that, but as i said to you and confirmed to miss griffin whos on the panel here with me, ill certainly look into those details. We do require our employees to quarantine. We do pay protect our employees when theyre on quarantine. So far, weve had, for example, 3,921 employees that we have pay protected not only because they were potentially exposed or exposed, but if they believed that they had some exposure or if they had some of is symptoms of covid. Weve had 18,045 employees test for covid. 482 tested positive of which only seven are current. And we are now providing thank you for describing the process that amtrak has in place to insure that employees are not on duty or in trains or the stations. My next question is does amtrak have any processes in place to Contact Trace covid infected passengers . What happens if a passenger tests positive a day or two after their train trip . Do employees who worked on that train, do they find out about that . So if you could describe that process, also. Yes, we do trace iing in place, our worker and where we can with our passengers. We dont always know where a passenger sits on a train. We did, actually, have an e early covid case passenger as early as march on a train from chicago to st. Louis. We were able to contact virtu virtually everyone on the train. There werent a lot of riders on that train, not just everyone in the car, but certainly all of our employees and so we are also working with the Public Health departments to continue to do so. Well, thank you. Thank you, miss griffin and mr. Flynn for that testimony. I am very concerned about the processes that are in place and whether examples of miss griffin, where things did not work out as well as she would like. They have improved and with that, i, mr. Chair, i yield back. The chair will now recognize mr. Carpen for five minutes. Thank you, chair. Am i on . Okay. Yes, so cant see. There you go. Had to logon. My questions for mr. Flynn regarding beach grove. Ive been very concern ed about the furloughs. Youre considering. Especially about the possible act on maintenance facilities. Can you tell me whether or not you plan to cut positions at beach grove . Id also appreciate any plans in writing you have to change the workforce levels a the beach grove facility. Thank you, congressman carson. We are not furloughing any employees at beach grove. A number of of our employees did take the voluntary separation and retire, so in fact, were actually hiring some employees in beach grove to back fill the positions. As you know, beach grove requires some substantial Capital Investments over the next several year, but as we develop future plans about beach grove or plans that would impact beach grove, we would be very happy to advise what those plans would be. Thank you. That would be a big help. Thank you very much. Mr. Miller, i appreciate listening to your testimony about the damage being done to Passenger Rail service in the midwest by reducing Daily Service on Long Distance routes. Indianapolis was previously served. And benefit frs this. Can you elaborate on what happens to midwestern cities when Daily Services are cut . Do you think congress should mandate Daily Services . I apologize, congressman. Was that question for me, sir . For you, mr. Miller and if anyone else wants to jump in about the congressionally mandated Daily Service. Chime in. So, yes, sir. Our position is that yes, these should be at a minimum daily and the reason for that is because of the multiple air effect that these services have in the communities. You know, weve heard a lot this morning, an assertion that amtrak is required by congress to make a profit. It is not. It is required to minimize subsidie subsidies. When we have the conversation about profit, that ignores the communities. The midwest is a perfect example of that. When i, when we looked at the effect of the Long Distance rout routes, 12 of the 15 would be affected. Those together contribute about 4. 7, 4. 8 billion to the economy. Thats the profit. The profit is going to those communities that are served. And whether youre looking at places like st. Louis or indianapolis or anywhere in the u. S. , these are services that provide an outsized benefit in terms of tourism, in terms of visitor spending, in terms of taking vehicles off the road. All of those impacts are measurable, quantifiable and amtrak itself used to talk about 7. 4 billion of value to the economy that is created. We think that number is actually a lowball. We think its actually a little higher than that. When you cut the Daily Service down to three times a week, you dont just cut four days worth of ridership. The ridership declines more than that because of the diminished utility and because of the diminished connections. Chicago is an performance connection point, as you know, and that is going to be a particularly difficult situation for the midwest because a lot of those connections, because theyre difficult to make, those trips simply wont take place. 39 million of revenue of connecting rev lieu nu flows through chicago alone and a lot of these trips are going to originate in chicago and flow through the midwest and those trips will not take place because the network does not have to utility required to make those trips worthwhile. So, those are people that will not be getting off in those smaller towns, will not be spending their money in those towns. Will not be eating in the restaurants and will not be supporting the local economy. Thats a big blow. Its already a big blow and its already going to get worse. Thank you, both. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you. We recognize mr. Lynch for five minutes. Can you hear me . We can hear you and we can see you. All right. Well, thats good. Two for two. First of all, i want to thank you, chairman, for keeping your focus on this. This is a very important issue. And i appreciate the witnesses trying to help. So going back to the cares act, we pushed through a billion dollars, hoping that that would help recapitalize amtrak so that you could avoid furloughs. Then we put through 10 billion in addition to that. On the transportation appropriations bill and then under hr 2, we actually, i thought were very generous to amtrak by supporting 30 billion for amtrak over the next five years. To be honest, i thought that was very generous. Just so you know, during the debate of hr 2, i had an amendment. It would have prohibited any furlough, layoffs or reductions in force during the term of this pandemic. And yet, the feeling between amtrak and members of the committee and staff is that with that generous funding of amtrak, that this would be unnecessary and that i should withdraw my amendment and so in good faith, in good faith, i did. I withdrew that amendment that would have prohibited what youre doing right now. And so, not happy about that. I just want to tell you, there are consequences to your decision. I mean, in good faith, you know, i supported all that funding for amtrak and while my district is at one end of the northeast corridor that provides a profit for amtrak, i am entirely comfortable and i fully support amtrak using the profit that they would make in the northeast corridor to help our southern and midwestern states. Some of those red states. Those rural areas that would be without service, so i support that. I dont think that we should cut out those lines of service. Those long haul lines that dont necessarily benefit my district, but i think benefit the country. And you know, i just feel, i hope you take very seriously the credeibility that you will lose by engaging in these furloughs and the reputational damage that comes to amtrak management because of this decision. These 2,000 line workers are very important to us. They are the heart and soul of amtrak. I appreciate that the management personnel are important as well, but were going through a rough patch right now. I think this is, this decision, youre not keeping faith with our line workers for amtrak. Youre not keeping faith with the people who drive those trains and maintain those trains every single day. And i really have some deep misgivings about my own decision to pull that amendment. So im asking you to rethink that. And you know, were all in this together. I dont think that your decision to furlough these 2,000 employees is going to save the day, quite honest ly, because cutting them out is going to reduce service. Its going to you know, continue to spiral that bottom line deficit. And youre going to lose the faith that members of Congress Like me who were behind you and supportive of you because of this decision. You have any other alternatives other than what youre suggesting right now with this furlough decision . Thank you, congressman lynch. These are really difficult decisions and ones we all feel very personally. As you pointed out, if hr 2 were to become law, the it would be Game Changing for amtrak on many, many levels, include iinge ability to retain everyone employed and to retain the long Distance Service. Should the economic recovery a as proposed by, under thud legislation, that would be some multiple of Game Changing. Not sure what the right adjective is r for that, but we dont have that funding certainty yet. Thats why in the 4. 9 billion s supplemental we presented to the committee, it is about retaining employees who would otherwise be furloughed and the long Distance Service. As i had mentioned in a response to another member of the committee, we have quite a bit of input from a wide array of stake holders including the senate and including in the administration, that said you need to, in your request, look at those areas where given the very, very low levels of ridership youre experiencing, you need to engage and take selfhelp in reducing costs. Those are the equities were trying to balance and i heard everything you said which is why in my remarks here today, i was reflecting levels of funding, giving a 41 level of ridership as opposed 2019, that we would require. Well, you know, i think weve got to hang together. I just do not see the support that i think we owe to our line workers. I just dont see it. These 2,000 furloughs. The other piece of the question i had was the vendor bidding on contracts that may result in jobs being exported overseas. Lost in the United States and overseas. Do you have anything to say about that . We did receive a waiver to purchase some specific track laying equipment from overseas and we did that after the fra committee satisfied themselves it was absolutely necessary and not available. That is certainly very strongly been brought to my attention. I was unaware by both chairman difazio owe and chairman graves or by chairman difazio owe specifically and we have adjusted that rfp, taken out the ability of the responder or the successful responder to outsource that i. T. Programming work. Under the circumstances, i can see how you would be under severe criticism for doing that. Im glad youre listening to chairman difazio owe and happy that at least the i. T. Portion of that has been retained. Mr. Chairman, im going to yield back. I want to thank the witnesses for their help with the committee at this hearing. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Lynch. Are there any members who have not had a chance to ask any questions . All right, hearing none, want to thank the witnesses for testimony. I think mr. Lynchs comments there at the end were very good way to conclude. We need to be supportive of the worker at amtrak, that they didnt have more of an opportunity here to field questions, but i think everyone understands that mr. Flynn is you know, driven in the drivers seat here for what is happening, but amtrak needs the support and the help from congress. Im very happy to hear it at the end. I was not aware. I sent that letter along with chairman difazio about the outsourcing of the i. T. Jobs so im very glad to hear that has been changed. The adoption has been changed. Good news. To hear from you, mr. Flynn, but were going to have to continue to talk about the need to make sure that amtrak workers are taken care of and also amtrak passengers receive the service they deserve and when the pandemic is over, that we can return to the service so which very questionable if we have cut to service in the meantime. But i want to thank all the witnesses again for your testimony. I want unanimous consent that the record of todays hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions, you may submit to them in writing. I also ask unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for additional comments or information to be submitted to be included in the record of todays hearing. Without objection so ordered and with that, the subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you. Youre watching American History tv. Every weekend on cspan 3, explore our nations past. Cspan 3. Created by americas Cable Television companies as a Public Service and brought to you today by your television provider. Weeknights this month, were featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan 3. Tonight, cspan citys tour takes you across the United States and through time as we explore our music history. Some of the stops include the Ryman Auditorium in nashville, the rock and hol rol hall of fame in cleveland and the birthplace of jazz music, new orleans. Watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern. Enjo enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan 3. Bidens record is a shameful roll call of the most catastrophic betrayals and blunders in our lifetime. He has spent his entire career on the wrong side of history. Our current president s failed in his most basic duty to the nation. Hes failed to protect us. Hes failed to protect america. And my fellow americans, that is unforgivable. The first president ial debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President , joe biden, is tuesday, september 29th, at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Watch live coverage on cspan. Watch Live Streaming and on demand at cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. Much of todays financial regulatory system and creation of the Federal Reserve system is due to senator carter glass after the great depression. Matthew fincke wrote a book at the virginia democrat who changed American Banking titled the unlikely reformer, carter glass and financial reformation. Todays talk by matthew p frank is something ive been looking forward to just because i like matt. I dont know anything about the subject so ill be a all yours t today, also. Matt comes to us, hes retired now, but spent the bulling of his career with the mutual fund association. He wrote what you described to me as a Landmark Book on mutual funds by Oxford University press early in the last decade and followed it up with this book