Transcripts For CSPAN3 Confirmation Hearing For Director Of National Counterterrorism Center 20240712

Our goal for this hearing is to enable this committee to have a thoughtful and deliberate consideration of your qualifications for the positions that youve respectfully been nominated to fill. The witnesses have provided written responses which you all will have. As youll see, mr. Miller graduated from George Washington university. He was commissioned as an infantry officer, he has a masters in National Security studies and a graduate of the Naval College of staff. Began his military career as a infantry man in the army and served in the district of col n Columbia National guard. He served with the fifth special forces group. He participated in combat operations in afghanistan and iraq. Upon retiring from the army in 2014, he worked as a defense contractor before serving as the special assistant to the president and senior director of counterterrorism at the National Security council. He currently serves as the Deputy Assistant secretary of defense for special operations and for combatting terrorism. Mr. Hovakimian received his law degree from Stanford University in 2010. He entered private practice for several years before joining the u. S. Department of justice as an assistant u. S. Attorney. During this time, he served multiple roles here in washington to including during his time with doj, he served in multiple roles here in washington to include as the departments director of counter Trans National organized crime, he serve as the associate Deputy Attorney general and chief of staff of Deputy Attorney general jeffrey rosen. Youve been asked to lead otct at a time when were engaged in a debate, a robust debate about the Intelligence Community and our collection tools and authorities. At the same time, however, the nation continues to confront growing array of threats from state and nonstate actors. Navigating this tension will require judgment, wisdom, integrity, and i expect that you will both provide sound counsel and advice to the director of National Intelligence as he takes on these complex challenges. The satisfaction of this committees oversight mandate will require transparency and responsive from your respective offices. You can expect us to ask difficult and probing questions of you and your staff and we will expect honest, complete and timely answers. That said, we also want you to feel free to come to the committee with situations that in a assess at a time our working in perspective wiwith y. I thank you both for being here for your years of service to your country and for your willingness to continue in that service and i look forward to your testimony. I recognize the vice chairman. Thank you, may remember. Cha. I had the opportunity to talk with both of them prior to this hearing. Congratulations on your respective nominations to serve as director of the National Terrorism center and general counsel for the office of dni. Both of the these positions are important positions in the Intelligence Community during a time of unprecedented National Challenge and peril. The National Counterterrorism center im not sure i understand. Is that huawei coming in already . His huawei phone was going off. I apologize. The National Counterterrorism center was created to prevent these kind of efforts of the bad guys listening into our meetings, was created in the wake of 9 11 to connect the dots and ensure a terrorist attack never occurs on our soil. Including protecting americans Civil Liberties and privacy. The job of the american Intelligence Community is to uncover and anticipate threats and to provide warning to the nation, the Intelligence Community is first and foremost americas eyes and ears against foreign threats. And you, just as all of the professional men and women of the ic are mandated to be nonpolitical and to speak truth to power making those difficult calls based not on what those in power wish to hear, but on the facts. Unfortunately, under this president , the men and women of the Intelligence Community have come under attack. Not only from a broad, but without justification from within the leadership of our very own government. Those who have had the temerity to do what all americans expected of them, simply to tell the truth, have found themselves similarly dismissed, disparaged on twitter, and retaliated against. Because this president so often finds the truth unwelcome, he has fired dni coats, acting dni mcguire, acting deputy dni, mr. Hallman, deputy dni, sue gordon, an ic Inspector General Michael Atkinson, a 40year intelligence veteran was dismissed by mr. Trumps acting dni. Intelligence professionals who volunteer to do difficult, dangerous jobs including those who risk their lives every day around the world, must know that our countrys leaders have their backs. Instead, theyve been subject to disrespect. For a signature period of this year, there was not a single senateconfirmed senior official at the office of the dni. This alarms me and it should alarm the american public. The leadership roles you have agreed to undertake are challenging under the best of circumstances. Mr. Miller, our terrorist adversaries have not simply disappeared. Those of us on this committee know that plots continue every day. American men and women deployed in harms way in syria, iraq, afghanistan, and elsewhere are terrorist target and is some thefr ma never made it back to their families. I look forward to hearing about you today as to how to confront the sophisticated threat from isis and other rogue operations. Youll take on in this role. And how you will define success should you be concerned. In particular, i would like to hear what you think about the role of the nctc in confronting these threats and how you plan to make sure the center is resourced to carry out its job. The general counsel advises the dni on the letter and spirit of the law, including the legal mandate to keep the intelligence committees informed and to ensure american Civil Liberties are protected. As we saw with the ukraine whistleblower, those who complied with their obligations to inform congress have faced consequences. I expect to engage on you today on your perspective on what Legal Counsel at the department of justice. Unfortunately, because of how this administration has approached the ic, your already difficult responsibilities will be even more challenging. In addition to asking how you will undertake these responsibilities today, i also wish to hear how you will stand up to political pressure, how you will ensure that analysis is apolitical, how you were reassured that you will not face the consequences for simply doing the job and how you will make sure that this committee is fully and currently informed. Former dni dan coats, former member of this committee, set a high bar for telling truth to power. Even in public, for which he was eventually fired. I want to understand how you plan to live up to this example. Thank you again for agreeing to take up these challenging positions and i look forward to todays hearing. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I understand senator grassley is here to speak. Senator grassley, please proceed. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman and mr. Vice chairman, for the opportunity to introduce to the committee a native of my home state of iowa, mr. Christopher miller. I congratulate both of the nominees for their appointment. It is not every day that an iowan with such a distinguished Service Record comes before the senate for consideration. So it is a special privilege for me to give this introduction. Chris parents and much of his family still live in iowa city and or eastern iowa. Im sure his family is very proud that he will be testifying be recognized for his accomplishments for the country. Chris was raised in iowa city and after graduating from City High School he attended North Washington university, where he majored in history and enrolled in the rotc program. He graduated from George Washington in 1987, and then immediately accepted a commission in the u. S. Army as an infantry officer. In the army, chris had an impressive and distinguished career. He served in afghanistan in 2001 and iraq in 2003, and in the following years, like a lot of other military people, he served on numerous additional deployments to both of those countries. On behalf of the people of iowa, we thank you and other people for your service to the country particularly in those difficult times. Following his time in the army, chris went on to become a Deputy Assistant secretary of defense for special operations and combating terrorism, where he is currently performing the duties of the assistant secretary of defense for special operations. Whether as a member of the armed forces or in Public Service, chris has given the best of himself for the American People in the defense of our country. Of course, that should be no surprise to. After all, hes got iowa roots. Im certain that this committee will find him a proper give him a proper review of his record and his service and how that fits into his new position. I believe he is fully qualified being nominated now to be the director of the National Counterterrorism center and also the director of National Intelligence. So now it is again my pleasure to introduce to this committee, mr. Christopher miller. Congratulations. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator grassley. Before we begin, would you please stand and raise your right hand . Do you solemnly swear to give this committee the truth, the full truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Thank you. Please be seated. Gentlemen, before we move to your statements, i want to ask you to answer the five standard questions that we ask of every nominee who appears before us. They generally require a simple yes or no answer. We need to hear it so it can be transcribed. So make sure your microphones are on. First question, do you appear to agree to appear here and many other venues when invited . Yes. If confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the committee and designated staff when invited . Yes. Do you agree to provide documents or other materials in order for the committee to carry out with oversight and legislative responsibilities . Yes. Will you ensure your office and staff provide such materials for the staff when requested . Yes. Do you agree in the full extent possible all members of the committee of intelligence activities and covert actions to the chairman and vice chairman . Yes. Thank you very much. We will now proceed to the Opening Statements after which i will recognize members. I believe we will go by order of seniority today. Christopher, i understand you are going to go first, the floor is yours. Thank you, senator. I want to highlight what a thrill it was for senator grassley to make those opening comments. I got my folks are watching, i hope they have cspan2 up. I was a little bit worried that im sure my sister helped them out. My uncle floyd and my aunt arlene i know are smiling down as they were supporters of senator grassley. When i was 14 years old, i went to an event at their farm and i will admit that i did not hear his remarks, i was on the defensive line plinking with my bb gun but this was obviously special. Senator warner, with highest regards, when people ask me where im from, i proudly say that im from iowa. Words cant describe how honored i am, with all the work senator grassley has done. Distinguished members of the committee, thank you for taking the time to consider my nomination to be the director of the National Counterterrorism center. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you. It is both humbling and surreal to sit before you today as the president s nominee for this position. I am grateful to have the support and confidence of President Trump and the director of National Intelligence radcliffe. Along with the overwhelming privilege to lead and command americas sons and daughters in combat as an Army Special Forces officer, being considered for this position is the honor of my professional life. When al qaeda declared war in the United States on september the 11th, 2001, i like many of my generation answered the call to fight. It wasnt a war that we thought that the defense of this nation as we sacrificed our youth. Many dear friends and comrades also sacrificed their health, their marriages, and in some cases their lives. We have no regrets. The war has been long. Our efforts have been remarkably successful. The commitment of tens of thousands of professionals has taken the fight to the enemy, protected the United States and developed a Global Network of partnerships that has prevented another cataclysmic attack. When we set out on this journey, we envisioned our campaign against violent extremist organizations as a generational war. Not a multigenerational war. It would be in my view the height of the responsibility to leave this conflict for our children to fight. It is my lifes goal whether confirmed for this position or in another capacity to defeat al qaeda and its affiliates, to transition the war to a sustainable effort focused on monitoring the terrorist threats in the United States, attacking those with the ability to do us harm. And expanding relationships with likeminded partners around the world who are committed to the elimination of this scourge to peaceful coexistence. I still see myself as a kid from iowa who wants nothing more than to serve the country and make their parents proud. My father believed strongly in the nobility of Public Service, and i try every day to follow in his footsteps. In addition to my mothers wisdom, an example of citizenship, that is what my sister and i aspire to emulate in our lives. Most importantly, i want to recognize my wife and our three children who are here with me today. Kate stood with me through this 32year odyssey and raised over three children into magnificent adulthood. Their character, optimism to the future, and motivation to that give me hope and continue greatness in this United States of america. If confirmed i will lead the patriotic men and women of the National Counterterrorism center with honor and integrity, advocate for the requirements of the counterterrorism enterprise, and provide frank, honest, unvarnished opinions and advice to the president of the dni, this committee, and other policy makers and leaders in order to guarantee that we never again experience the indescribable loss of september 11th, 2001. Mr. Acting chairman, mr. Vice chairman, members of the committee, thank you for your leadership in protecting the United States. I look forward to responding to your questions. Thank you. Acting chairman rubio, vice chairman warner, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for taking the time this morning to consider my nomination to serve as general counsel for the office of the director of National Intelligence. I am honored to appear before you today. I also extend my thanks to the president for the opportunity to serve, to director radcliffe, for his confidence in me to my current pulses, attorney general this room isnt great. Could we turn your volume up a little bit . And if maybe you can bring your mic a little bit closer . Sure. Thank you so much. We are all kind of getting used to this. At to my my current boss attorney general tovar and Deputy Attorney general jeff rosen for their support throughout the nomination process. Acting chairman rubio and vice chairman warner, i am a first generation american and a proud civil servant. My background and experiences shape who i am today and compelled me to put my hand up when called upon to serve. This great country of ours has given me everything. My parents came to the San Francisco bay area and built a life and raised two boys and instilled in me a deep appreciation of the freedom and rights our country provides. And an equally strong duty to serve. Without their love and support, i simply wouldnt be here today. I think my mom, who is watching from home, my dad, who i know is watching from above, my entire extended family and the many Close Friends both from back home in california and those from later in life who have supported me and lived life beside me through the years. Ive been fortunate in my career. After graduation from law school i joined an International Law firm where i worked alongside and learned from the finest lawyers in the world. After a few years in the firm working for a judge on the 11th circuit, i have i thought could what i thought could be the best job i ever had. As an ausa in san diego i worked alongside agents and prosecutors building cases from the ground up. I handled matters and diverse contexts across the criminal code. For the last couple of years i served as a prosecutor and i worked primarily on a series of cases involving a former foreign defense contractor, his firm, and the u. S. Navy. Investigating and litigating the National Defense procurement fraud and bribery cases was rewarding work to say the least. It implicated our National Security interests and those of the military. Working handinhand with Law Enforcement agents and military personnel it felt like we were standing up for the interests of the United States. It felt righteous because it was. I look back on those days fondly, and i carry the experiences with me. They motivate me to continue to serve. Just as i have Great Respect for the dedicated professionals in our federal Law Enforcement agencies, i have tremendous respect for the members of our ioc. They do do righteous work and work every day on behalf of the United States. I am here because i want to support them and their mission. I am here because i want to do what i can particularly at this consequential time to ensure that women and men of the ic get the support they need to help keep the country safe and secure. Ive seen them work in action serving as the director of countertransnational crime, and participated in the fbi and cia briefings on counternarcotics efforts, terrorism finance, country specific and region specific threats into various interconnection between nationstates and organized crime around the globe. As they worked to implement the briefings and interaction i experienced firsthand the value they provide in the critical nature of the work that they do. Ive also seen firsthand the way the law interacts in the activity of the ic. As a deputy general i regularly participate in the counterintelligence and briefings in the operational matters in the investigation and litigation in National Security cases. Senators, the general counsel position that ive been nominated for is a legal job. In addition to the tasks that any clo would perform, i regard the overarching duties to be in principle threefold. First, they must speak truth to decision makers. Everything else flows from that basic proposition. The only legal advice i will ever give is that which comports entirely with the constitution of the United States and the law of the United States even when when it results in outcomes or advice others may not want to hear. I will only ever deliver what i consider to be lawful, objective, clear, and complete advice and counsel. My oath to the constitution will require it, and my professional judgment and moral compass demands it. Second, the general counsel must promote transparency because the ic must Keep Congress fully and currently informed of its intelligence activities. For me, cultivating a relationship with the congressional intelligence committees is of paramount importance. Oversight providing the American People through their elected representatives to channel through which to receive and evaluate, specifically with regards to the intelligence of the duties of the ic, robust and thorough congressional oversight that is vitally important. The ic engages in activities critical to the National Security of the country and with implications of many other values we prize like Civil Liberties and privacy. If confirmed, i will work with the director and other leaders to facilitate and maintain a cooperative process. The general counsel is uniquely situated for the collaboration across the offices and should do so. They should take a leading role in promoting collaboration and ensure activities are conducted lawfully and the full panoply of the statutory rights are protected for ic employees. I will close by saying Public Service is a high privilege. I remember standing in court and saying for the first time, good morning, your honor. Here on behalf of the United States. That feeling never got old. If i am confirmed, i will have a different but similarly significant opportunity to serve. I look forward to working with a talented professionals of the ic. So acting chairman rubio, vice chairman warner, and members of the committee, thank you. I look forward to your questions. I will defer my opening questions to the end of the hearing. Senator byrd . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Miller, mr. Hovakimiam. I have a question for both of you, but i want to make a statement if i can at the beginning. Most of this committee were intricately involved in creating, not just nctc, but the dni. So they have their own vision of what the responsibility and the mission of both were. Ive had an opportunity to sit down with mr. Miller, and ive talked at patricks background and his resume. Im not sure that we could have two more qualified people to fill the role that theyve been nominated for than these two individuals. And given that many on this committee crafted these agencies in legislation, it is absolutely crucial that we have people that can fulfill the mission that we thought nctc was there to do and that we could have somebody interpret the correct law in an agency that is in its embryo stage. So, i encourage the members if there were a time i would like to see us expedite these nominees and hopefully get away from acting and have permanent, it would be before we leave for the next break. Mr. Miller, how do you plan to ensure the Intelligence Communitys Counterterrorism Mission is operated as efficiently as possible given the limited resources and growing focus of hard target countries . Thank you, senator, for the question. I hope everyone can hear me. Its so important as weve had enormous success against counter and violent extremist organizations and i feel we are having these conversations on resourcing the prioritization from the counterterrorism at this time. It is a testament to the success that we have had. But the war isnt over yet. Al qaeda and its affiliates are still committed to attacking us. The first 30 days, get in there, look under the hood, see whats going on, determine the resourcing strategies and then take action after that. I feel right now we are in a pretty good place. I looked at the macro perspective of the budget in my last job. However, we cannot overcorrect. Let me ask you a followup if i can. How do you plan to reduce any analytic duplication thats going on currently . Senator, as you know, 17 intelligence organizations within the federated enterprise presents challenges, and i think i have some of the same concerns when i see products that are written and, like, it kind of contradicts another one. Thats kind of one of the challenges but that is the beauty of the federated enterprise. We have competitive analysis. The question is how much. And i know that we currently within the counterterrorism business, every day we have a meeting where we make sure we are not doing that. Im going to take that very seriously because the duplication is okay to a point, but to use the tax dollars correctly, we dont need too much, and that is the challenge im going to take that on. Loud and clear, sir. The intelligence communities are faced with cutting Edge Technologies in novel situations. Without a lot of precedent for us to draw on, what experience do you have in crafting Legal Solutions for the cuttingedge Technology Problems that have no legal precedent . Its a great question and one that in many ways as youve rightfully pointed out will define the ic and the process of providing considered legal judgments to the ic in the future. Working at the doj, ive had the opportunity to consult and work with the fbi and the National Security division on matters related to Artificial Intelligence and other cuttingEdge Technologies like that. There are crosscutting legal issues that apply, luckily the ic is comprised of a number of talented gc offices. I would draw upon their experience and expertise. I would work with this committee and their professional staff, i would engage as appropriate with other stakeholders, and i would do my best to render complete, thorough, and accurate legal advice, no matter how novel the context. Thank you for that. Mr. Chairman, i yield. Vice chairman . Thank you, mr. Chair. Let me again say that ive really enjoyed the opportunity to meet with both of you gentlemen before the hearing. And i would echo what senator byrd said. You bring very strong qualifications. You would be taking the job in a difficult time. But i want to get these for the record. Will you commit to report to congress any evidence of political pressure on the within your respective areas . Yes, i will. Yes, senator. Politics has no place in the intelligence activities of the United States. What will it you do to reassure the workforce or for that matter the odni writ large, not just the general counsels office, that the intelligence professionals will not face repercussions if they do their job and to tell the truth . Senator, i am a proud civil servant. I have worked alongside career Public Servants for the majority of my career now and i consider myself to be among them. If confirmed for the job i will engage with them daily. I will tell them that i am the leader of the office, but that doesnt mean i am not their peer. They can come to me and talk to me. If confirmed, i would have an open and collaborative relationship with them. And they would have my full support. Vice chairman warner, really important question, im drawn to the counterterrorism enterprise. We used to have a statement as many of us will recall politics ended up the the waters edge and its the same thing with counterterrorism but, maybe the mission focused group of professionals. I would absolutely lead with integrity as i have throughout my career and be very conscious to be too cautious of that and that the example as i can. I have a couple of questions for you, and we talked a little bit of this in the meeting. In your answers to the committees prehearing questions, you noted you were not familiar with the specific intelligence about russias efforts to help thencandidate trump. It appears that there are some within the Attorney Generals Office that are trying to undermine the conclusions of this committee and of the ica. Do you have any doubts that russia interfered in 2016 and continues to attempt to interfere in our 2020 elections . I do not. As director ratcliffe said during his confirmation hearings, it is clear that the russian interfered in 2016, its clear they interfered in 2018, and its clear that they are or are attempting to this year. Some of the things they did were extensive social media disinformation campaigns. Some forms of hacking and other efforts aimed at sowing general discord and undermining our democracy. So i think that its clear. Do you have any questions about the assessment of the unanimous consent assessment of the Intelligence Community and of this committees report that in 2016 they had a favorite candidate . Senator, as i noted in the response to the prehearing questions, i havent had a chance to look at that intelligence. I dont know what it says or what there is and isnt there. What i can say is i have no reason to doubt that of january 2017, nor this committees confirmation of it. I think that is a careful answer. I know you are applying to be a lawyer but i am concerned and i think my colleagues will press you on that. One last question. One of the things i found out most outrageous was when the Inspector Generals efforts were undermined by the olcs opinion that basically said that the odni has the ability to stop the icig from reporting a whistleblower concern to congress, which i believe is the opposite to the plain letter intent of the law. Have you had the chance to review any of those activities. And would you see going forward, if an Inspector General is pursuing the matter in the role for the odni would you try to impede or stop any general inspector effort . I have Great Respect for all acts of congress and among those chiefly is the enactment of the whistleblower protection acts including the one that applies to the ic. If confirmed i would ensure that they receive all protection for which they are entitled. To ensure that the whistleblowers are afforded all Legal Protections that they are entitled to. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Miller, as you know from our conversations on the phone, i have a very special interest in the nctc because it was created by the terrorism protection act of 2004, which i drafted with senator lieberman. We always considered the nctc as well as the dni as the chief component of the wideranging bill. I am therefore concerned about the recent comments in which he outlined his concerns that the nctc doesnt have the resources that are required to fulfill its mandate under irtpa. He has communicated similar concerns to my staff and to the committee. Ive also noted in recent years that it seems that agencies are no longer sending their very experienced analysts to the National Counterterrorism center and so in some ways weve gone back to the prenctc days when president bush first set it up try to do this kind of interagency analysis to ensure that we connect the dots. Do you believe that the nctc has sufficient resources to fulfill its legal mandate . Senator, first off, thank you for your Visionary Leadership with senator lieberman in establishing the National Counterterrorism center which responded prior to september the 11th, 2001. Russ travers is a dear friend and a mentor and fundamentally i very much agree with the broad outlines of the public statements. I understand he might have done a complaint or however you would determine that. We dont want to return to the pre2001 stovepipes. We want to make sure were resourced correctly. The other thing is between the centralization and decentralization. That is a really important question that we have to get right. And of course russ last thing, lets have a public discussion about that, which we are having today. I dont want to speak for him. I need to go in there and look. I know the general budget lines and analytical capacity is something that is important, and i know that there is stress on pulling analysts out of counterterrorism and moving them to other accounts that are of higher priority. I havent seen that at the macro level yet. As i said, i kind of look at the gross numbers. Its a huge concern. We cant return to back the problems that we had in the past, but i dont have a level of detail and i look forward to talking with russ again as soon as i can to get more specificity. And of course i will talk to all of the former directors to get their views, too. Thank you. I think that is really important. We intend to do that for the connections after reading the 9 11 commission report, which suggested that the 20some Intelligence Agency had some information that perhaps had one of us to be able to thwart the 9 11 attack. And as we shift towards the focus more on china and russia, we cannot forget that the terrorist threat is still very real. So i appreciate your commitment. Mr. Hovakimiam, last year the dni received a complaint that the Intelligence Community Inspector General was credible and of an urgent concern. Despite a legal requirement to transmit the complaint to this committee within seven days, the odni did not do so. Under what circumstances do you believe that its appropriate to not send a whistleblower complaint to congress that the icig decides is credible, and an urgent concern . Senator, generally speaking, all whistleblower complaints should be forwarded to congress. If confirmed, i said it in other contexts and i will say it again, i will do everything i can to ensure that whistleblowers are affordable to statutory rights to which they are entitled, and i will do everything i can to work with the professionals both in the Inspector Generals office and the general counsels office to ensure that the whistleblower protection act is applied fairly and consistently. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator feinstein . Youre next. Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. You are very young. Back in 2014 which one . Not you, sir. Sorry, i couldnt resist that. Back in 2014, this committee put out a study, a report, on the cia detention and interrogation program. That was very important to me. I was the chairman of the committee at the time. Do you believe that any of the cias former enhanced interrogation techniques are consistent with the detainee treatment act . Ive reviewed the executive summary of the report that was released while you were chairman. It is a very detailed and thorough report and from where i sit it is a model of congressional oversight. Senator, today the law is clear. The Defense Authorization act of 2016 says that only those in the field manual are legal and i support that fully in this conference i would ensure that its complied with. Good. Youve done your homework. Let me ask about the detainee treatment act, which is a set of conditions and techniques that can be used. Have you read that . I have reviewed it, senator, yes. That is the standard that is used, is my understanding. So as the chief Legal Counsel for the Intelligence Office im very interested in your position would be. Senator, torture is wrong and i would confirm and make sure that the law is complied with. Ive read the executive summary of the report that the committee put together when you were chairman. I found it to be illuminating and terrifying at the same time. Thank you. Let me ask, if confirmed as the general counsel in the odni, how would you approach questions of using title 50 as part of Law Enforcement operations . Senator, the bedrock principle of our country is if americans that are engaging in activities protected in the First Amendment or other parts of the constitution are not to be targeted or surveilled on the basis of that activity so although in the executive there is a section that allows for certain coordination, technical assistance, things like that between ic elements and domestic Law Enforcement, in a word, that kind of stuff happening here is very serious. And to answer the question directly, i would review it soberly and would look at activities with a skeptical eye and work with career professionals to ensure the law and the constitution is complied with in all contexts. Are you aware of the president s firings of recent Inspector Generals to include Inspector General Michael Atkinson . I am aware of that, senator, yes. Do you see any issues in the firing that would undermine the ics confidence in whistleblower protections . Im familiar with mr. Atkinson being fired. I dont know all the facts but what i do know is there is a dedicated committed core of Civil Servants who work in the ic and across the United States government. Im proud and honored to be among them and my experience has been nothing shakes these folks. I anticipate that if confirmed, i will go back and help them do just that. You will have the back of whom . Inch. I will have the back of those who serve the United States. Do you see any issues with the recent firing of Michael Atkinson that would undermine the confidence in whistleblower protections . Whistleblower protections are of paramount importance. Its important that the rights of all whistleblowers are protected. I was a prosecutor and worked with confidential informants. They are like whistleblowers in many ways. They put everything on the line. They tell what they believe to be the truth and to disclose what they see as wrongdoing. Its important to protect whistleblower rights. I know the dedicated servants of the ic and across the government work to do that. And if confirmed, i look forward to helping them do that. Thank you. Senator . Mr. Hovakimiam, im surprised nobodys asked you about what i considered to be one of the greatest scandals that has affected the Intelligence Community including the fbi and in American History where the resources of the fbi and the Intelligence Community were directed against a candidate for president of the United States and produced a long and lengthy narrative about russian collusion. Ultimately resulting in the appointment of a special counsel and a report from mr. Mueller. And now we are learning as a result of the classifications of previously classified materials about the nature of the fraud being committed on the fisa court in securing fisa warrants, abuse of the fbis authorities to conduct counterintelligence investigations, which are very important. And frankly disregard that the highest levels of the fbi getting during the Previous Administration for the procedures governing fair and impartial investigations. I wonder if you could characterize your reaction to the revelations weve seen, recognizing of course there are some ongoing investigations by mr. Durham, and were anticipating his report. But it strikes me that this is one of the greatest scandals in American History. Senator, all i can say is i was shocked, as were many americans, when i read the Inspector Generals report on the fisa situation. As a lawyer and as a public servant, the idea that just for example an office of general counsel lawyer would alter an email and then that altered email would serve as a base and partly for the fisa application, its deeply, deeply troubling. The attorney general has called it abuse. I would say over the course of my career as a prosecutor and as an employee i have had the pleasure and honor of working with any number of fbi agents and Law Enforcement personnel. They too seek to do the right thing and help protect this country. I am honored to work with them. I know the director and the fbi leadership are implementing reforms and changes to address the situation as described in the report. Its an ongoing and important conversation. And thank you for the question. Senator feinstein raised the issue of enhanced interrogation and the investigation that was made. Unfortunately, the report ended up being a minority and majority report on partisan lines, and indeed there wasnt a fulsome investigation in terms of talking or interviewing witnesses as opposed to reviewing paper and reports. But clearly this was a novel legal challenge for the department of defense and for the Intelligence Community. The cia and other aspects of the Intelligence Community had to adapt to a novel situation and try to get actionable intelligence to save american lives and hopefully preempt the future terrorist attacks. Could you describe for us how you as the chief lawyer for the director of National Intelligence would approach these sort of novel legal questions, because we know exactly what happened once the officials responsible for protecting the American People act consistent with the legal advice provided at the time, there was invariably second guessing. And then an attempt to hang those very people out to dry when they tried to do the best they can in the novel circumstance to understand what the law is. And follow the law. Can you address how they would approach the sort of novel legal questions . As i said in my opening, i want to do my job because i belive in the mission of the ic and those deployed overseas who are fighting on behalf of the country every day. If confirmed, i would talk to, consult, and work with personnel in the Intelligence Community, and people that have sort of been there, done that, because i believe that legal advice is informed when it takes into account facts on the ground. There are facts that can guide the analysis and situations. I would try to be a lawyer who talks to all of ho those who have skin in the game, so to speak, and have had at times their backs against the wall. I do believe the facts inform legal judgments. If confirmed i will work every day to ensure that i give the best legal advice i can. Senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Hovakimiam, my hometown of portland has been invaded by militarized federal Law Enforcement. These federal forces are beating, teargassing, and detaining my neighbors. On monday, donald trump promised to expand this invasion to other cities. If the line is not drawn in the sand right now, america may be staring down the barrel of martial law in the middle of a president ial election. Now, mr. Hovakimiam, you are a Senior Justice Department official and you are in a position to know what is going on. And as you know, i informed you in advance that i would be asking questions this morning about the legality of what is happening in my hometown. My first question is, do you believe the federal forces can patrol American Cities over the objections of state and local officials and away from federal buildings . Senator, i understand portland is your hometown and i understand is theres a lot going on there. I extend my best wishes to your friends and family. I will stand firm on the idea that americans right to free speech and Free Assembly under the First Amendment is a bedrock principle of democracy and one that i stand by. A peaceful protest is one thing. Violence is another. From where i sit, Law Enforcement helping to quell violence. My same is short. Yes, senator. Nobody condones violence. And i have repeatedly said that. Thats not the issue. The issue is whether thats a smokescreen for a federal takeover of local authority and local Law Enforcement. So what is your reaction to what is going on in my hometown . Because i believe it is unconstitutional, and i believe the country needs government lawyers who arent going to use the law as a smokescreen to justify this unconstitutional invasion over the objections of local officials. Senator, i noted the situation in portland is volatile. I do extend my best wishes to your constituents there. My constituents want to know these forces cant go wherever they want over the objections of local authorities. Thats what they want. Senator, the department is committed to enforcing the law, while respecting and promoting the Constitutional Rights of all people. I will tell you, the department is throwing the law in the trash can. This morning, a republican, the first secretary of the department, said theres no way, no way he would have allowed it as a governor, the federal government to do what is going on in my city. And you see to want to extend best wishes to us, and the like, and for the First Amendment. But i dont see any evidence that youre going to do anything different. I would like to hear that youre going to. So let me ask you one other question. Do you believe unidentified federal forces in unmarked cars could drive around seizing and detaining american citizens . It is a yes or no question. I believe in fully protecting the Constitutional Rights of american citizens. Ive done that as a federal prosecutor and a doj official. Do you believe they can drive around seizing and detaining american citizens . Its a yes or no. Can you lean in a little bit more . Yes, my apologies. Generally speaking, senator, it is a great idea to identify oneself as a federal Law Enforcement officer. I will say the Department Takes the Constitutional Rights of americans very seriously. As you know, the state a. G. In oregon has sued the federal government, and the federal Programs Branch of the Civil Division and the department of state is named in the lawsuit. So at this point, there is ongoing litigation. Some of the matter is you were asking about cuts to the heart of the litigation. That again is ducking the question. These are practices that are going on now over the objection of local officials. And you have equivocated, i consider these practices a massive invasion of the Constitutional Rights of my constituen constituents. I think these practices are essentially fascist practices. That until recently would have been unthinkable in america. And your refusal to condemn what is going on in my hometown, and people know all about it, the first secretary of Homeland Security was very clear about it. These positions are not consistent with the position to which youve been nominated. I intend to oppose the nomination. Senator heinrich. Thank you, chairman. Mr. Hovakimiam, in your current capacity in the Justice Department, i have a few questions i would like for you to take for the record. You dont have to answer them today, but i would appreciate a quick response. The u. S. Attorney for new mexico told me yesterday that the federal Law Enforcement agents will be sent to albuquerque as a part of the expansion of the operation. The Justice Department states on its website that this initiative is intended to, quite, fight the sudden surge of violent crimes, but as the Albuquerque Police chief had pointed out, homicides are down this year and protests in the city have been mostly peaceful. The doj initiative is intended to work in conjunction with state and local Law Enforcement officials. But they were not consulted. I would like to ask you, why now . What is the driving reason to send agent to albuquerque at this time . How is it different from last years operation . How will doj work with city officials such as the chief of police and the mayor to ensure cooperation, coordination, and some legal guardrails . Because we dont want the portland model coming to the city of albuquerque, frankly. Finally, what will the operation look like on the ground . If it is not intended to monitor protests, how these forces be utilized . Now i like to get to some questions i would appreciate your answers to today. On june 26th the president issued an executive order on protecting american monuments, memorials, and statues to combat recent criminal violence. According to the public reports this week, an unclassified department of Homeland Security memo authorizes the analysis to engage in surveillance of ordinary american citizens who participate in local protests. If you believe the threats of Property Damage specifically is a significantly enough Homeland Security threat to warrant intelligence analysis and collection by federal agents . Senator, with respect, i cant necessarily speak to at the department of Homeland Security is or is not doing. I can say, free speech and Free Expression are bedrock principles. In your personal judgment, do you believe the threat of vandalism to monuments or statues rises to the level of necessita necessitating agents, especially if that comes at an opportunity cost. If were gathering information on protesters and not information about White Supremacy groups or other groups that have actually that have threatened violence . Senator, i understand the question. My goal in my current job and in my future job is to provide considered legal judgments and to do that i need all the facts on the ground. It is different to opine on hypotheticals. Because it seems to me, you answered pretty straightforwardly the question about title 50 authoritie authorities. This is the next logical step. This is the title 50 authorities in action, right . So why is it hard to connect the dots for you between those two things . There is a lot happening in the country, and there is a lot of facts on the ground. Your question specifically its about gathering intelligence about protesters. Generally speaking intelligence should not be gathered against those to be entirely protected by the First Amendment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator . I have questions that i will reserve them for close session they are not for public. Senator . Thank you, mr. Chairman. In your current role as the department of justice have you supervised the deployment of Law Enforcement officers . The deployment of federal Law Enforcement officers . Were you in any way involved in the decision to send officers to these locations . Im a current doj official. Theres a lot happening right now. A simple yes or no would be helpful. Ive advised the attorney general on any number of topics. Lets focus on the subject matter. I have sight lines into a great number of things. This does not happen to be one of them. Federal Law Enforcement officers to the various cities weve been discussing during the protests . Senator, my understanding is that dojs involvement has been relatively limited can you answer the question . Were you involved or not . Senator, there are ongoing Law Enforcement operations around the country and to protect the youre not going to answer this question directly, sir . I can move on if or are you going to answer the question. Im attempting to answer the question, senator. Were you involved . Senator, i advised the attorney general and Deputy Attorney general on everything under the sun and i always bring to the table a respect for Constitutional Rights and the First Amendment. That is something i turn to frequently when advising them. Were you involved in the decision to remove peaceful protestors that were gathered in front of the white house, the incident . Lafayette square. In in early june . Yes. I dont know who made the decision. You were not involved. I dont know who made the decision were you involved in that decision . Senator, i think i had a question for the record prehearing on that topic and i answered, no, i was not. And press reports indicate in june that doj granted the dea new authority to conduct covert surveillance. Were you involved in the decision to grant these new authorities to da . Senator, im not entirely sure. I know i got some questions on the record prehearing youre not sure if you were involved. Im not sure exactly what it is that youre referring to. Dea is a federal Law Enforcement agency and under the United States code, there are delegations that are available to be made were you involved in that decision im giving you my understanding of the law. Again, i have sight lines into a great number of things the doj does. This generally speaking is not one of them. In your role at doj were you involved in any manner in the decision to fire Jeffrey Berman . No. You were not . Jeff berman was the u. S. Attorney up in new york. I knew jeff berman. I had worked with him on a germa number of things. The department has made statements on that and those will speak for themselves. The previous odni counsel cult consulted with the department of justice. In your capacity at doj, did you have any awareness of this whistleblower complaint and the question of whether it should be shared with congress . Senator, youre referring to the whistleblower complaint from the late summer and early fall of last year that resulted in all of the proceedings, is that were you involved in that decision in any way . Senator, that was something that occurred and the nation watched it were you involved in that decision in any way . In what decision precisely . The decision to not share the whistleblower complaint with congress . Senator, my understanding was that the whistleblower complaint was shared with congress at some point. At some point. But there was a decision not to share it with congress. And my question is, were you involved in that decision . I guess my point in bringing that up, senator, is that i im not exactly sure which decision youre referring to because i dont know who made it, if it was even made. I dont know that there was a decision made not to share it with congress because it was in fact shared with congress. And do you have any information were you involved in any way in any of the decisions that were made around the department of justices decision in the Michael Flynn case or the stone case . Senator, the matter involving general flynn is in active litigation. Its before the d. C. Circuit were you involved in that decision in any way . Senator, i as a lawyer, its and official at doj, its difficult for me to comment on an ongoing what about the stone case . Senator, roger stone, that matter was litigated over the course of years. The Department Took positions in Court Filings were you involved in that decision . The attorney general has made public statements about that case and i will allow those to speak for themselves. Thank you, mr. Chairman. My time is up. Thank you. Since i deferred my questions to the end, i have three. Let me start with mr. Miller. The nctc has an arrangement in which a lot of its workload is taken up by details from other agencies. In an era in which increasing our Foreign Policy and our intelligence work and frankly multiple areas of the u. S. Policy including geopolitics, trade, diplomacy are focused on china and russia and iran and north korea. And the concern, of course, is that even as we focus on these things and rightfully so, it could somehow detract from the role of or the importance of Counter Terror which remains an active threat and moved into different theaters. What is your view of this arrangement in which the nctc relies the mandate relies heavily on detailees from other agencies whose increased workload could potentially place a strain on our ability to focus on the Counter Terror mission . Thank you, acting chairman rubio. Great question. And its i really think the model works when resources are bountiful and everyone is committed to the mission. I think its something that the beauty of that model was youre rotating in new folks with new views and you kept the you kept the degree of energy and individual thinking going. My gut instinct right now is we need to look at that. Im concerned as you note that as resources get further constrained or other priorities take the fore, that we really need to think if thats the right model. Ive done this one before where youre trying to get borrowed labor and it works great until it doesnt. And i think we might be kind of getting to that point, sir . And just to be clear, is it the its not the aspect of having new people come into the role, its the question of numbers and workload. If an agency is being told we need more product, more work, more focus on, you know, north korea, they may not be able to part with detailees on the same scale in the past. Yes, senator, i also think National Counterterrorism center is doing cuttingedge work on using Artificial Intelligence and machine learning. I think were kind of baby steps right now. Were a long way as a government at large to exploiting those. But im really hopeful that they continue to be best in class and figure out whether there are efficiencies that can be gained. Thats the goal in there. But right now i completely hear what youre saying and am going to look at that closely if confirmed. Were in an unprecedented situation where certain Foreign Surveillance authorities expire in march and its leaving the Intelligence Community and the department of Justice Without fisa business records, lone wolf authorities. What concerns do you have with the current expired status of these authorities . Thank you, acting chairman rubio, for another kind of really important question. Im not an expert on 701 a2 and fisa. I will say this, i think this is one of the things we learned from the horrendous attacks in 2001 is typically speaking, its better to have tools and not need them than after the fact. Im not an expert on fisa. I understand the broad outlines in more tools are better, generally speaking, as long as they comport with the constitution with our laws and with, you know, ag guidelines. More specifically, my question is not so much about the legal arguments surrounding it or the political arguments, whether its an impediment to our counterterrorism, the current status, whether thats an impediment to the counterterrorism effort. How critical have those tools in your view . Senator, i know theres National Security agency has some thoughts on that and of course support the operational elements. However, once again, i cant speak specifically right now to what the impacts are on our intelligence take in regards to counterterrorism. Certainly more is better and ill look at that if confirmed, sir. Do you have any insights . Senator, yes. The provisions of fisa that expired on march 15th of 2020 have been very important and useful to Law Enforcement and to the National Security community and as mr. Miller said, its always better to have more tools and not necessarily need to use them. One of those provisions, in fact, i think the ic has said has never been used in history. That doesnt mean there arent a set of circumstances under which it would be useful. So if confirmed, i look forward to collaborating with this committee and with the legislative Affairs Professionals across the government to reauthorize those provisions. All right. Any members have any questions . Mr. Hovakimian, im pretty disappointed about how you answered a number of any colleagues questions or failed to answer. But the one that really bothered me the most because we talked about it before senator harris came in was we had a discussion during my questions about the olcs opinion that ruled i think totally inappropriately but the olc could in a sense intervene, stop the ig from making a report to congress. We talked about that. You said you thought it was very important that Congress Gets the igs report and you left me with the impression that you thought that was inappropriate. And yet you wouldnt even respond to senator harris whether you were involved in that matter at all and acted like you didnt know what she was talking about. Senator, i think sorry for any misunderstanding. I think what i was referring to was when the decision was made not to send the report over, i sort of that i didnt compute for me because, of course, the complaint did eventually make its way over the complaint got over but not through appropriate channels and was stopped and the Inspector General stopped from continuing the investigation that he was rightfully required to do by law and so if youre not willing to answer her, will you answer me, were you involved in that in any way . Senator, i was not. That decision was made by the office of Legal Counsel. It was a considered in your effort of having sight lines into all Different Things the attorney general was involved in, were you involved in that through your various sight lines . Senator, im not quite sure what you mean. Sir, if you dont understand what i mean, then im not sure youre dealing with me or dealing with this committee in an appropriate straight manner. I enjoyed our conversation earlier. I think you are a bright young man, to quote my colleague. But i really i would like to get a written response from you on this subject. Im committed to ensuring the rights under the statute of all whistleblowers. I believe in it. I believe that whistleblowers serve an Important Role in the government. I believe congress spoke to that. And, you know, i worked with confidential informants and theyre in many ways like whistleblowers. If confirmed, i will do my best to respect those rights, as i always have, in every position, including my positions at doj. I want to give you an opportunity. There was confusion on your part about the questions. Let me just try to ask it a different way. The question at its core that i believe theyre asking is, obviously, you have sight lines, you work in an office. You understand the Different Things are going on in different places. If i understand the question, and it may be what you want to respond to in writing. As i understand the question is, whatever decision was made by the office of Legal Counsel or the like, were you involved in that deliberative processing in giving legal advice as to what the outcome should be . Senator can i just and i amend. Yes, mr. Chairman, i think that is right. But there was let me, you know this is why you may want to take this for the record. My understanding was that you had olc i believe in some consultation with the attorney general reaching that conclusion which then was referred to the ic the ig, im sorry. The ig Inspector General was stopped from performing his duties which at least some of us thought was in clear contradiction of the law and i do recall the gentleman who had your position beforehand coming in and trying to defend that because the odnigc tried to defend that, i thought, unsuccessfully. The clarity here is not whether you are simply obviously olc is not inside the dojs office. But you left me with you have left me with the impression that you are avoiding answering directly senator harris question and if you were involved, particularly after i tried to pose questions on this matter about whistleblowers, youve left me with very, very unsettled sense. Whether you want to address it today or in writing. Because i do i want to give you a chance to answer. Maybe its better off in writing because the answer is complex. To the extent the department of justice was involved in this matter, was that a process that you were involved in helping reach that determination . Senator, i would be happy to take the question for the record and do the best i can parsing it out and answering it. I will say theres an olc opinion that is public. Its reasoning is out there. Im not an attorney who works in the office of Legal Counsel. I did not inject myself into their deliberations. I did not try to, you know, steer things one way or another and i did not try to give legal advice on what that opinion should look like. But i will be happy to take the question for the record and to answer it the best i can. If you could just address both whether you were involved in or aware of these deliberations at doj in terms of consulting with olc. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Anybody else . Senator burr, do you have a followup question . Okay. I want to thank you, everyone, for being here today. The record for planning purposes of any members wish to submit questions for the record, which sounds like were going to have some after todays hearing, for either the nominee, do so by the close of business tomorrow. I think we know what at least one of those questions is. Again, i want to thank everybody for being here and with that, this meeting is adjourned. Tonight on American History tv, our series, landmark cases produced in cooperation with the National Constitution center. We explore the issues, people, places involved in some of the most Significant Supreme Court cases. We begin at 8 00 eastern with katz versus United States. It changed the way Law Enforcement officers conduct their investigations. And then at 9 35, brandenburg v. Ohio. The court issued a decision upholding his right to Free Expression, even if offensive. Watch landmark cases tonight on cspan and at any time on cspan. Org. Binge watch book tv this summer. Saturday evening, settle in and watch several hours of your favorite hours. Saturday, were featuring books written by former president s, including jimmy carter, george h. W. Bush, bill clinton, george w. Bush and barack obama. And watch saturday, august 8th, as we feature books written by former first ladies including rosalynn carter, barbara bush, hillary clinton, laura bush and michelle obama. Binge watch book tv all summer on cspan 2. American history tv on cspan3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. Coming up this weekend, saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on lectures in history, we look back to 2012 and hear from the roots and development of the modern consecutive movement. And then sunday on reel america four Police Training films from the 1960s. On american artifacts, a tour of the ellis island immigration museum. And historians talk about recent debates over removing historical monuments. Exploring the american story. Watch American History tv this weekend on cspan3. The House Small Business Committee held a hearing on proposals for aiding Small Businesses affected by the pandemic. They discussed the potential for an additional stimulus package, the impact of the pandemic on minorityowned businesses, and expanding highspeed internet access. Im going to thank everyone for joining us this afternoon for this official remote hearing. I want to make sure to note some important requirements. Standing house and Committee Rules and practice will continue to apply during remote