Interview conducted by the National WorldWar Ii Museum hershel Woody Williams recounts his experiences serving as a marine in the pacific. Watch American History tv, now and over the weekend, on cspan 3. My name is jared frederick. Im an instructor of history at penn state altoona. Im also a reenactor with the furious fourth world war ii living history group. And we are here at Army Heritage days at the u. S. Army heritage and Education Center in carlisle, pennsylvania. And at this event it is a major complex. Were here on the Army Heritage trail and one can find reenactors or living historians from all different time periods, ranging from the 17th century up to the present. My group, though, is here this weekend to discuss the 75th anniversary of the normandy invasion, which is taking place this summer. And we thought it certainly fitting to commemorate that event. And us putting on these old uniforms, wearing old equipment, it certainly gives us a better perspective and appreciation of what the greatest generation went through. And if we can impart even a small inkling of that to passers by and families who come visit this place then we feel that weve done a fairly good job. The unit that we portray is the Fourth Infantry Division and its a unit thats sometimes overshadowed in the realm of World War Ii History but nonetheless it was one of the spearhead units that was involved in the normandy invasion. It was some of the first amphibious troops who were ashore and they waded ashore on utah beach. Unbeknownst to many of them at that time they had actually landed on the wrong sector. They had landed about a half a mile off course, and there was a little bit of uncertainty, perhaps hesitation as to what exactly they should do. But the assistant Division CommanderTheodore Roosevelt jr. , son of the president who was oldest american participant in the invasion said very defiantly were going to start the war right here. And indeed that is what they did. They carried the fight inland into the normandy countryside where they really began to tally up casualties. The unit fought all throughout mainland europe. They were the First American troops into paris, they were the First American krotroops into germany but unfortunately it inflicted a very grim toll. The unit in its entirety, throughout the war, suffered about 250 casualties. There was just a perpetual stream of wounded, killed and then their replacements and sometimes replacements after that were being killed and wounded as well. It was an absolutely devastating affair. But many of the men in the unit had the Firm Conviction that they needed to do this because there was really no other choice. This was the price of stopping fascism and its spread. And as many world war ii veterans say to this very day, its something that had to be done. And 75 years later thats something that they still firmly believe in. Of course, Theodore Roosevelt jr. Had a long military lineage in his family. His father, of course, stormed up San Juan Hill in 1989 during the spanishamerican war and then a number of years later Theodore Roosevelt expected all of his sons to serve in world war i. And Theodore Roosevelt said of his sons, he said i would look upon them with same if they didnt serve in the same way i would look upon my daughters with shame if they didnt have children. Those were the two expectations for Theodore Roosevelts kids and junior really lived up to those expectations. H he served in world war i. He was, in fact, a political rival with cousin Franklin Roosevelt during the great depression. But when world war ii started the two cousins put their differences aside, theodore jr. Wanted to get into the military once again. Initially he served as a commander in the first Infantry Division and he served in the big red one. Which was one of the few Battle Tested divisions to go into normandy. However, roosevelt didnt gain a lot of acclaim or trust in the eyes of omar bradley or George Patton. Theodore roosevelt jr. Had a very laid back command persona and that wasnt up to snuff with somebody who was spitting polish as George Patton was and omar bradley thought he got a little bit too comfortable and cozy and laid back with some of the soldiers. There wasnt that sort of rigid discipline that makes a good soldier a good soldier. He was removed from command in the first Infantry Division, that he wasnt down and out and he landed a spot as the assistant Division Commander in the Fourth Infantry Division in the months immediately prior to the normandy invasion. And roosevelt pleaded with his commander general raymond tub by barton, that was his name, his nickname, and he was unceasing and he wanted to go ashore with his men. And barton finally acquiesced and barton realized at that moment that this is probably going to be the end of this general. His health was failing. He was suffering from chest pains and he wasnt telling anybody about it. He had very bad arthritis. His mobility in some cases was were limited. But nonetheless he went ashore with the Fourth Division in one of the secondary waves on june 6th. He had a cane in one hand, he had a pistol in the other. And he stayed with his men through, you know, thick and thin. He rode around in his jeep, which was called rough rider, which, of course, is named after his fathers unit. Unfortunately, though, his poor health did catch up with him to. Only a few weeks after the invasion he suffered a fatal heart attack. And he also becomes one of the highest ranking americans to be killed in france as the invasion was ongoing as well. And he rests in the normandy American Cemetery to this very day, right next to the remains of his brother quentin who was killed in the first world war. So right now we would like to walk us or walk you through our camp here a little bit. And perhaps offer a little bit of perspective on the gi experience. Well start here around the back. Now, often when americans think of the Second World War they think of helmets. They think of weapons, they thi think of sherman tanks. But war is this stuff too. It is the subtle, small stuff, the everyday stuff that soldiers used on an everyday basis. And they certainly werent eating fivestar meals as they were out in the hedge rows of france in 1944. And these units of food that would come for breakfast, dinner and supper were really the staple of the gi diet. And often there would be a small can of food inside. Some crackers, some bubble gum. And other instances they would even include cigarettes, which was actually part of the ration. If they were lucky they might be able to acquire a radio along the way. But, you know, when folks look at this sort of stuff it offers them a moment of empathy. You know, when you look at Something Like tooth powder or soap or a razor blade, these were the things that, you know, we would see on our fathers and grandfathers, you know, bathroom shelves, you know, as we were growing up. So its often the common, everyday stuff that fascinates me, and sometimes fascinates visitors as well. So well talk a little bit more about magazines, about the press, about newspapers at the time as well at one of our later stops. So well head over here to our recreation of a rather small gi encampment. And as you can see our members here are having lunch, chowing down in a very authentic way and very authentic to nap as well, a very common staple of the gi experience there too. And, you know, on average, an american soldier was about 22 years of age, weighed about 150 pounds. He had gone through the great depression. He was used to sacrifice and perhaps being short on supplies. And unfortunately that Economic Hardship well prepared a lot of American Youth for the forthcoming struggles in this global war. Among some of the most iconic features of the american uniform is the helmet itself. And for all intents and purposes this was the home of the american gi. And it was a multipurpose tool. It would be used not only for protection against raining fragments, shells, splinters, rocks, what have you, he could also use it for a lot more things. This is an original helmet. And i dont know who used it but i carry it on in his memory, nonetheless. What manufacturers would do with these steel pots, in order to diminish the shine and enhance the camouflage of it, they would actually mix sand within the green paint and that rough texture that you see on the helmet would diminish the shine and offer some additional camouflage. Now, there are a lot of other things that a soldier could do with this as well. He could use it as a digging tool. He, if he wanted to, he could take out the inside liner and he could use it as a pot. It was a steel pot. If you were lucky enough to find an egg you might be able to cook it inside of that. And also, you could use it as a wash basin, hold it right underneath you, be able to shave your face. Use it as a chair, use it as a pillow. One of the really notable phrases of the Second World War, a wellknown memoir is a helmet for my pillow and then finally it could be used as storage in a way. Something that was really popular among the troops were small compact books that were called Armed Service editions and american publishers gave these out by the tens of millions during the war. And american soldiers love of reading and literacy that they would later use after the war to, you know, use the gi bill and attain higher education, i think, was really instilled during that time. They could shove those books in here. But what they did most is they would put photographs inside. And this is actually a photo of my grandmother, gertrude, what she looked like during the world war ii years, and like many Young American women she married a world war ii veteran when he came home frft service. And i carry this photo not only in honor of her but in the man that she married at the end of the war and its my way of paying small tribute to some of my family history. And if i could have an m1 grandsh please, ill show them that. Thank you. This was the primary weapon of an american soldier that was fighting in europe. This could be slid back like this. You could put an eight round block there within the rifle. And, you know, general patton said that this was essentially the weapon that would help win the Second World War. And its quite hefty, quite heavy all things considered. But it really made a major contribution to the american war effort. And, indeed, it was used on through the korean war and even in some circumstances the vietnam war. And there are some militaries to this very day that have surplus of these, and still use them in their active military. Thank you very much. As we, you know, just kind of browse the camp here and look at all of the equipment, it really gives us a sense of the things that these soldiers carried. When some of the first initial waves of the normandy invasion took place, a lot of these american combatants had 70, 80, sometimes 90 pounds of gear on them. And the code name for the operation that they were participating in was known as operation overlord. In my view, though, it could have well have been named operation overload because these guys were packed down like mules. And when i talk about this in the classroom or sometime when a young family comes in we might dress up a young persona dday kit to give them a sense of the weight of war, so to speak, and its something i do in the classroom too. And, you know, it really, you know, weighs down on them, both physically and psychologically. You know, to think that they were wearing 80 pounds of gear, theyre being heaved off the Landing Craft into seven feet of water, while people are shooting at them, they then need to waddle up several hundred yards of beach that has land mines and obstacles all throughout it. And when you take that into consideration it really gives you a humbling perspective on what the dday experience was, not only for americans but also for the british, french and the canadian troops that stormed ashore that day as well. So were well to consider this weight of war in the things that they carried, you know, as we think about this 75 years later. The american tents that usgis used was often called the shelter half tent. In many ways it symbolized the notion of teamwork, the very essence of camaraderie because there would be onehalf of a tent, and each soldier would have onehalf of a tent and in order to have a full tent you needed to team up with a battle buddy so he could bring his other half and then you could share one and there were a lot of different variations on this and how they used it and the tents often got as large as creativity and materials would allow american soldiers and sometimes they would get six or eight of them together to make really big tents because then you could pile eight guys into it. If youre in the fall or in the winter, all of those additional people inside a tent will offer additional body heat, might keep you a little bit warmer. Unfortunately for a lot of guys they moved so frequently and so quickly that a lot of times they didnt even have, you know, the opportunity to set up a tent or encampment like we have here today. You know, the advance into europe was monotonous, it was strenuous and it brought about some of the most enduring hardships that could be imagined. Theres one story of an american lieutenant that we often like to share with visitors and students, and theres a lieutenant in the Fourth Infantry Division by the name of george wilson. And he wore the same pair of socks for five months, and he never once had the opportunity to take off his shoes and wash his feet. And come spring of 1945 when he finally had an opportunity to bathe he went to take off his socks and it peeled the skin off of his feet. And so, you know, when we think of world war ii, we think of combat, big planes and tanks. But really its, you know, small Human Interest stories like that that illustrate the gi experience more than anything else. Theyre short on supplies. They go into wintertime combat without the proper clothing or equipment. And it was certainly no vacation. The story of artifacts, of course, is nothing without the story of people. And when visitors come into our various displays we like them to reflect upon that Human Element as well. And here on this board we have a few tangible reminders of all of that, perhaps most notably are copies of a dday diary that was kept by a lieutenant in the 4th Infantry Division. This gentleman pictured over here on the right, and his name was sydney monts. And he and his men operated an 81 millimeter mortar, one of which well be showing you here in a moment as they landed on utah beach. And some of the words that he has to offer about his experiences are quite profound. He talks about his men and his comrades falling to his left and his right. Hes scavenging the beach, looking for loose pieces of ammunition and equipment that he can pick up that he knows that he will need later along the way. And, you know, once more, that personal element, it really helps bring history to life. Thats really one of the fundamental reasons of why we are out here, to impart this knowledge to younger generations that may never have the opportunity to talk to a world war ii veteran. We see ourselves as an important conduit of sorts in transferring on this knowledge to other people. Another notable individual that we see on here is another lieutenant in the Fourth Infantry Division whose name was bill chapman. And like sydney monts he operated an 81 millimeter mortar. And, you know, he offers all sorts of unique perspectives. Theres a book that was recently written about him. And, you know, later on in the war, the 4th Infantry Division served in a place that was called the hurtkin forest and for those that were lucky enough to survive it they called it the death factory because it was just like this perpetual Conveyor Belt of men being sent to the front lines, almost needlessly or heedlessly and mr. Chap man was one of the lucky survivors of that carnage. Now as a lot of these Service Members were working their way across the european continent some things that gave them some added pep or inspiration or information was things like this. And this is a reproduction of stars and stripes, which was the official Army Newspaper and its still in publication publication to this very day. This issue is a copy from june 7, 1944. And there were two really big events that happened there in the first week of june. One of them is a bit overshadowed. Because just two days before the invasion of norm andy took place the city of rome was liberated and there was a mad dash for the headline whos would grab the most attention and news. Unfortunately for those serving in italy and general mark clark, commanding officer, was jealous of the level of headlines that the normandy invasion grabbed. Indeed there were 150,000 troops involved in the opening phases. Soldiers have different reports this under scored a point why americans were fighting this war. They saw freedom of speed, freedom of press and sank sanctity of journalism and literacy and access to books they believed was the democratic notion that represented their country and in some ways those notions are outlined in the speech that general eisenhower issued to his troops on the eve of dday. It is a short concise address, issued in tens of thousands in leaflet form to the troops and he also had a radio address of it as well it is considered the 1944 gettiesburg address. Eisenhower saying we have a fight to continue. It is a horrible fight but it must go on because the consequences of not doing so or losing it are almost too horrific to take into comprehension. Much like slavery needed to be destroyed as did fascism that came with it needed to be defeated. So his men took this message to heart. He cared about them and they knew it and that was one reason they fought so hard and diligently on his behalf. Of course, too, the harder they fight the war the sooner the war will be over. Another element id like to show you is a weapon that we have over here. This is an 81millimeter mortar. I mentioned this a little bit in some of our talk prior to all of this. And my good friends, mike and andy, are going to tell us a little bit about that. Hello, everybody. Im here to talk to you about the 81millimeter mortar. This is actually designed by the french in the 30s and the u. S. Army got hold of it, they really liked the idea because until that point in world war i mortars couldnt move around the battlefield, had to sit there and be stagnant. In the future they wanted a more mobile war and this fulfilled the bill. The germans had a similar weapon. They fired a 8 centimeter mortar one millimeter smaller than ours. He could fire their rounds out of ours they couldnt fire their round we even had a 60 millimeter mortar more transferable than this. Three men would carry this mortar in different pieces. You see you have the barrel, bipod and base plate here. Each piece weighs about 43 pounds and one guy would carry each piece and bunch of guys carrying all the ammo, you see here to my right. The smaller rounds are the m 43 rounds in a transport tube that is waterproofed. Semiwaterproofed. This round could go 3,300 yards and was used for anti personnel light vehicle. This is the mortar round a crew like this would use. You have increment charges in the end. Thats actually what produces the blast that propels the mortar round out of the tube and a super quick fuse. The second this touches anything its go to explode once it leaves the tube. The bigger round we have here, this bigger round is m56. And the m56 had a delayed fuse and on delayed fuse thats good for shooting at buildings, bunkers, any fortified structure that the germans might have been in. So it enters through the roof and its like a millisecond before it explodes inside the building. It had a shorter range of 2400 yards. They will had a similar round m57. A white fosse forrious. It also created casualties. With white fossorous when it hits the air it burns and burnls and burns. They used too. You see in this box here we have a life belt inflated. When the troops landed on dday some of them put some of these on their packages of ammo. So that when if the fact they dropped the ammo in the channel it would float and they could retrieve is easily and theyd be issued shoulder pads to carry heavy am anything on their shoulders. Back to the gun. A gun like this would be used in all kind of operations. Battalion commanders and infantry units called this hip pocket artillery because it would go anywhere in the battle field and be there and shoot whenever they needed it. At times they would consolidate many groups together for a lot of density of fire and in other times they would just match one or two mortar guns by themselves the with units. This Weapon System was carried by a eightman squad with i a gunner, two assistant gunner, and a squad lead around the rest carried ammunition. These are good with ammunition, 18 rounds a minute before it over heated. So we hope that offers a little bit of insider perspective on some of the daily trials and tragedies and triumphs that American World war two soldiers went through. As weve been talking here a number of world war ii veterans have come into our camp and they are the reason were here, to hear their stories and impart them to other generations and certainly we encourage viewers to do the same thing. We thank you for coming to visit our encampment today. Hey. Want to get a picture. Yeah. Greg whiteman. What regimen were you in. 26th. Bruce vader. Oh, yeah. Thats my reenactment group. Bruce vader. Oh, yeah. Dick was on the destroyer and he saw the raising of the flag on iwojima. Im dick donald, i was first class sonar man. Our ship was damaged the night before the calm causy attack, the last Aircraft Carrier in the world was sunk alongside our ship and we had to limp into iwojima and put the bomb on the beach and watching those marines with those flame throwers mopping up those tunnels. The navy and marines never did get along well, it was always a fight, but i learned to love the marines on that day. And suddenly the brightest brightest sun, up goes that flag. I was 19 at the time. And for the first time my 5th invasion, i have seven all together, it hit me why we kids were willing to die for that magnificent flag. And we did. And we did. Twothirds of us never left the island. Twothirds. Only two guys from the flag raising walked off that island. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for coming to visit us today. Youre watching a special edition of American History tv, airing weekdays. Tonight beginning at 8 00 p. M. Eastern its world war ii oral histories. In early 1945 the u. S. Marines invaded iwojima and fought Japanese Forces in one of the bloodiest battles of world war ii. In this 2016 oral history interview, williams accounts his experiences serving as a marine in the pacific. Watch American History tv now and over the weekend on cspan3. May 8th was veday, victory in europe day, marking the day 75 years ago when the allies accepted nazi germanys Unconditional Surrender bringing end to hostility in world war ii. Author of g. Guns of last light the war of europe