Well, i dont know what im going to do now. Im going against my will, you know. And i might as well go in there and get it over with. Do you have any family . Yeah. I have a mother and father. Do they know youre going in today. Right. I talked to my mother last night. How did she feel about it . Upset. Yeah. What did she say. Well she said just take care and write me every day. Ive tried to. Theres no way. So what is your family going to do when youre away . Live. Worry, i guess. Well weve been hes been drafted before. And he just didnt go. And we tried everything. Medical excuse and everything and like right now im pregnant and i dont know what im going to do. The president said vietnam is this nations most anguishing problem but said the middle east is the most dangerous. He stressed that u. S. Military strength in the u. N. Now, ricky, do you want to eat something . What . Maybe ricky will. I really felt that way, too. I just feel that i cant possibly give another one of my boys to the service. But we are so very grateful to everyone for all of the help theyve given us. Two months ago this Selective Service center which covers most of the San Gabriel Valley notified dan that he was 1a and his induction had been postponed but even if it had not been postponed, willie was going to go to school today. He does not plan to be inducted into the service. He is one of five sons in the Thomas Willie family of west covina. Three brothers have already served in vietnam. One died there. The willie family decided they had given enough. This son should be allowed to finish college. Hes the first man in his family ever to refuse service. His forefather served in the civil war, the first and second world wars and his brother is in vietnam. When his brother john died in vietnam, the Family Tradition of service ended and his parents said no more. I know what they went through when my brother was killed and im not going to make them go through it over me no matter what happens. Ill never go in the service. Were not bluffing. I mean, it dont matter to them, you know. But for four years weve had a monkey on our back and were going to get it off one way or another. It just aint going to be in this family any more. It is all through. Were not putting up with it at all. Its over with us. I just hope they go ahead and give him a student deferment for a while any way. Of course we hope it is going to be changed. That is really what we want. Anything to keep him out of the service. Keep us in the country. We wont go to anything to keep him out of the service. There will be no braces, no medical in any way, shape or form. When it comes to that, were leaving. We wont go that route at all. I just felt that and my husband felt we had served sufficiently in this war. And that this family has been torn up by this war for four years and if they take our other two boys it will be another four years before it will be over for us. I dont know how to tell the story of how we found out. Of course we were notified by the army that john was missing first. And then five days later that he had been killed in action. How did we feel . I dont know. I remember looking out the window, it was mothers day and the people were coming and going. And they were having company and so on. And i thought, why is the world going on. Dont they realize that it stopped. But how do you feel . I really dont know. Tom and i are very religious and this is the only thing that saved us, im sure. And were very close. I remember when they gave us our gold stars, they gave us seven. One for each of my other five children and one for my husband and myself. And i said to my daughter, they left seven gold stars and she said seven, what a strange number. It was a strange number to us. We had six children and there was a family of eight. Seven never entered our mind until then. For months and weeks and almost this whole year tom and i have just wondered why we even try. You know, what difference does it make what happens to you now. You get to the point where you think why are you living . We felt that we had raised our children and now they were dying and we just wanted to be with johnny so bad that we thought maybe if we died that would be the best thing to happen to us. But i realize that you cant feel this way. That im sure my son is in heaven and some day we will join him. But you have to live for the others too. I know this. But what a world of depression it can be to lose a child. I think the thing ive found is that people dont know quite how to act. Theyre not quite sure whether they should come to you with condolences, as if you had lost a family member, people are inclined to talk in hushed tones as if they had a sense that you must be terribly shamed of having a son who is a federal convict. When he was outside of chicago when he was drafted in chicago, he became very much aware that it was only the boy who had a good education. I was one that could talk well. That ever got a classification. It just seems so unfair that he felt he couldnt deal with it anymore. His being in prison was smk something that we had to look forward to. He had no idea of going off to canada leaving his country. He feels very strongly that people who take this kind of a position do so only because they are devoted to their country and the principles on which it is based. And simply have to take whatever the consequences are of this kind of thing. And so i think he accepted the idea that he would have to pay society and we did too. He had to get himself up to the marshals on may 4th. Take care. You too. The prison system can break any man. And they make every effort to break any man. And in this kind of apprehension i feel constantly and i think that elizabeth fears it constantly and the sort of thing that we just acted like the 2 million other parents, we dont like to talk about it. But i think it is fair and i think thats the kind of apprehension that, if any, there is. Do you agree . No, i do not. No, i i have no question about that. Physically they could break a man, but i dont think they could break a mans spirit if its rooted and grounded in love if i could use a quaker expression. It seems to me that what the kids are saying to us is you get into doing something yourself, resist this thing yourselves in your own lives. Dont leave it to us to do all of the resisting. I have a very clear sense of my own existence of feeling that i want to keep working and doing the things that i can do to raise the level of public understanding about the war, bring war to an end. In other words to do the things with my life at this point which rick isnt able to do because hes behind bars. Now that was assignment for the day. And ill tell you why i assigned it. Every year, in Southeast Asia and vietnam but it is very difficult for me now. And if i cant take anything objectively, then id rather not do it at all. And i cant be objective about this more. You begin to wonder, can you really teach the kids that a government of the people. All the people you know seem to have one feeling, but the government seems to have another. You wonder if youre being unpatriotic as you are told you are, when you questioned and when you work against government policy. I dont feel any less patriotic. Almost a year from the time we were notified that his plane had gone down, there was a prisoner release and somehow one of those prisoners knew that my son was alive and was from prison. I dont know what personally i would do or say to my son if he were if i had to do over again and he was leaving. Certainly i would say something. I wont just let mim go away not realizing what war was like. This, i think, is the thing that i think about often. Whether it would have impressed him at the age that a young man is, it bothers me because you could always think perhaps my son would be here and perhaps he wouldnt be facing the bleakness of every day in prison. And the bleakness of no future that he could see other than prison. Just perhaps, had i said what war was like. I think that his father and i both feel that our son is being abandoned. And before you know it, it is another christmas and you realize this is the third christmas your son is sitting in prison. When hes shown on the film made in prison and you look at his eyes and a mother recognizes their sons feelings, i think, perhaps better than anyone, and though he doesnt look too bad physically, his eyes look so sad. As his father said, so far away. And then you know that he has that same feeling of despair. You sometimes think, well shall i just sell out everything and go to hanoi and live and be near him. Perhaps i could go in and see him occasionally because that becomes the most important thing to you. 70344 camp detection for u. S. Pilot captured in the democratic republic of vietnam. Dear mom and dad happy wedding anniversary. As for me im in good health and keeping my spirits up. Say hello to all from me. Love mark. If im not here in the future years when he gets out at least hell have some record that some people cared and wore working for them. I might be naive but i still feel that the majority of the people somehow could make their feelings known. I think that is the only way we could bring it to an end. And i could ever see my son again. Here you go. Help him. Oh, yeah, thats right. Try that one again. Its not necessarily important now, the war as far as were concerned. What happened to us or what happened to roy is what we can do to eliminate that possibility of war in the lives of our children. All children, not just our children. From a long line of ranching people and they ride horses and work very hard physically and they enjoy that excitement and challenge of a rodeo. Oh, man. How a bull in the arena is just not anything. And he put such a value upon his ability to ride and because he thought it made him happy, and it did. But it does require Perfect Health and good coordination in particular. Two good arms and two good legs and im worried about him a lot. Everything else ive been able to get together, but the religious view points more than anything else. I was brought up in the church of christ. And it is fairly strict church. And, of course, when i have to go to vietnam and do these things i was taught all my life were improper, maim and killing, you know. To this very day when i walk in a church i feel like a hypocrite. I feel like i dont belong there. And i know you shouldnt feel that way in a church. Sometimes i think that if i go to a church and participate that im just living a lie. And i dont want my children to see me living a lie. Where are you going now . Dont run off. When he was injured, i tried to think about how he was taking it before i ever even saw him for the first time. Because i knew that telegrams said prognosis poor. But the whole injury or what happened really didnt start then. It was later when id see him in the wheelchair and other parents were playing with their children, you know, throwing the football or i kind of thought i knew how he felt not being able to do that. And there were a lot of times when i was alone with our child that i would see other Families Together and wish [ crying ] im sorry. It was hard to get adjusted to everything, the way it turned out. But you cant go out and like me, i cant go out and play football with my kids and teach them how, things like that. Its hard. But it comes around. And the main thing is i just i cant let myself, if you get to feeling sorry for yourself and fall into that pattern, you know, feel like the world owes you a living for it, well it is going to rub off on my kids. And theyre going to grow up right, you know. And im not bitter against anyone. Except just the way things are. They need to be changed. This war has got to be stopped. When he was home, everything that he had done on the farm, he tried to redo. He built fences. He took one of the wagons and picked up the junk around. He lined up the machinery. He planted trees. He mowed the lawn. He plowed. He stayed in the field the last night. He stayed in the field the last night until 10 30. And i think he knew that he wasnt going to come back. You used to get up in the morning before i go to work i used to tune into sydney, australia, to get the firsthand news ahead before he would get here and about every three days we always got a letter from him. Khloe could follow his footsteps every day in the jungle. On thursday, that would have been the 19th of february, everything was upside down as far as my world was concerned. And i couldnt grasp that i didnt know what was wrong. I knew something was wrong. And i suppose this was probably the most terrible day in my life. And i cried. I sued and i cried and a sued. I made drapes for michaels bedroom. And at midnight i called a friend of mine and i said, lorraine, ive had it, whatever is ahead of me, im ready for it. So i was ready saturday morning and when they came, i knew. When i saw the uniform go up the stairs, i didnt break down. I didnt cry. This is when i probably became the angriest mother in the world and i started in onpy protest that very moment as far as the war was concerned. That saturday morning was a beautiful morning. The sun was shining. It was approximately 45 degree temperature. And i was outside the house and on the other side of the house and i was working on the antenna for the television. And something just told me to come around to the side of the house. And i walked around, up the walk i saw first the sergeant, then i saw our local pastor of our church about 15 or 20 feet from me and i challenged them and i said is my son dead. And they stopped. And i said is my son dead . And our priest said, why dont you come in the house. And i said no, i want to know. So i asked them a third time is my son dead . And he didnt answer me. I come in the house, called on to she was down in the rec room. I said mike is dead. She came up the steps. Sergeant and the priest were standing in the kitchen. I asked them was my boy killed wednesday morning . And he said, i havent told you people yet that your son is dead. Peg said, well, the military doesnt give you the courtesy of telling you that your son is wounded. But they do fulfill their obligation to tell you that your son has been killed. My husband was upset emotionally. He lost complete control. That was his way. He had to do it that way and i didnt try to stop him. I let him go until he worked and i thought he was going to break windows, i thought he was going to smash furniture, my first thought was to try to calm him down and i thought what the hell, his son is dead. He has a right to do this. My reaction to the death of my son was 25 years of my life just torn out of me. And i was stunned. I just couldnt see. I had great hopes for him because he had a great future. I just couldnt see why it had to happen. I was very strong in my bitterness. I just couldnt accept it. It was only when they brought the body back and i was asked to view it that i accepted it was mike. But i went to the airport and escorted my boys body to the funeral parlor. I asked to have his dog tags and the military said they still belong to the United States army. I said thats enough. From now on the boy is mine. And ill bury him as my son. Not as a military soldier any more. I have to live with this thing. I have to make his death the cause in my household. I have to. And this is what im doing now. Michael has to have died for something. And i think it is my duty to see that he did die for something. If my protesting is the war is something, that is what ill continue to do. My feeling now is a feeling of guilt. I feel that i didnt do enough to enlighten my son that you feel a mother loses his son simply feels she knew he was a man, hes 25 years old and i just didnt do it the right way. I think it is a mothers right. I think that she could let her son go there. It isnt a patriotism thing any more. This son is yours. Hes part of you. They have to drag him over my dead body to get him to go now. Im of the father of world war ii. Some of us have taken off our uniforms and some hasnt taken off the uniforms. But i took my uniform off when i passed out at the discharge center. And ive had all of the wars i want. And as far fathers, i dont understand how fathers could want to live past glory in seeing their sons go to war when they know what war is. I dont understand it. I dont want any more of it. Im donna reid own, chairman of another mother for peace. You can do something. Write another mother for peace, beverly hills, california. A million voices raised together will be heard. Youre watching a special edition of American History tv airing week days. Tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern programs on the cold war. We tour the Cold War Museum with founder gary powers jr. And the former Communication Base used by the National Security agency, cia and army intelligence. Well also hear the story of mr. Powells father and how on may 1st, 1960, his u2 spy play was shot down over the soviet union. American history tv now and over the weekend on cspan 3. Every saturday night American History tv takes you to College Classrooms around the country for lectures in history. Why do you all know who lizzy borden is and raise your hand if you ever heard of this murder, the jean harris murder trial before this class . A deepest cause where well find the true meaning of the revolution was in this transformation that took place in the minds of American People. So were going to talk about both of these sides of the story here, right. The tools, the techniques of slave owner power and also talk about the tools and techniques of power that were practiced by enslaved people. Watch history professors lead discussions with their students on topics ranging from the American People revolution to september 11th. Lectures in history on cspan 3 every saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on American History tv and lectures in history is available as a podcast. Find it where you listen to podcasts. The president s, from public affairs, available now in paperback and ebook. Presented biographies of every president , organized by ranking, by noted historians from best to worst. And features perspectives into the lives of our nations chief executives and leadership styles. Visit our website, cspan. Org the president s to learn more about each president and historian featured and order your copy today wherever books and ebooks are sold. Next on American History tv, Howard Ruffner talks about the photos he took on may 4th, 1970 when National Guard troops shot and killed four students at Kent State University in ohio during an antivietnam war protest. A student and photographer for the College Newspaper at the time, one of the photos was used on the clover of life magazine and published a book about his experience, moments of truth. Thank you all so much for coming out tonight. Tonight we are hosting the photographer Howard Ruffner who during his College Years at Kent State University was a photographer for the year book as well as the newspaper