We decided about two hours, about 79 hours, shortening the time to get home again. This was always going to be an automatic burn using the diesel propulsion engine and this burn was very successful. After that the ground was very concerned with power and we were, too. We decided to go into a power down mode, we turned off just about everything and i would like to have jack and fred to tell about our situation. And since no one made a lunar trip before we were looking the way out ways to determine how we could make these corrections moment. The angle of entry is very small. It has to be controlled closely. So at 105 hours they gave us instructions to relight the engine to or geient the spacecr in this manner. When they read up the procedure to us, i could not believe it. I never thought i would have to use something as way out as this. And here was was on apollo 8 using this same thing. It was completed on time and because it was a manual burn we had a three man operation. Jack would tell us when to light the engine and when to stop it. I handled the pitch and the stop maneuv maneuver. Again after this maneuver we were again powered down and it became one of just merely hanging on our maneuvers from then on were drifting and they were done to keep the thermal control as even as possible. And we went that way down to about five hours down to entry where by throughout the night and throughout the days we were working with degrees in the simulators and crews to set up procedures that we would be able to follow to make a successful entry. I kind of think one of the most important point thats could be made of this flight is the cooperation and the coordination and the initiative that people have when suddenly faced with an unusual situation that can respond to come up with the answers. They read us up procedures and practiced the procedures and completed them. They responded so fast to get this job done. We were in a different situation now, normally you only have the command and Service Module. Coming home now we had a dead Service Module, a command module, a lunar module, and a wonderful vehicle. And they are saying im going to go with misfin and i said we dont have any, nothing happened, i armed the b system, nothing happened, so i felt home free. Meanwhile i was back in the lab with an open tunnel hoping that nothing happens. And the procedure went well, we used a push and pull method, and using the controller for velocity, and it went off with a lot of debris which is usual and jim tried to pitch around to try to photograph it. You might tell them about the you got the first look, and the ground told us that the best view of the Service Module was through the number five window. And the jettison had pitched the rest, you might see what we have now, we got rid of all of this and now we have the command and the lieu nor module together. And i could not see it, so and jack could not see it, so i came up through this overhead window, i finally caught sight of tor lunar module, it was an amazing sight. I didnt realize that the whole panel was right along the panel where it number isly swings off. I could not see what was damaged, i could see material hanging out for the interior and about that time because my description would not be as good as a picture. Jack then knowing that he didnt see anything from his window started to come down through the tunnel to the left and fred got his cameras ready and the spacecraft maneuvered to a point where the Service Module was visible and the front window and fred and jackson were taking pictures trying to capture some of the damage that we can see. The remainder of the flight went just as the ground had told us to do it. We had kept in that position. I got an alignment from the earth, moon, and soon which was good enough to transfer back to jack a rough alignment so he could get one in the command module. He started to get this alignment. And it ask a triangular window while theyre powering up, and even though it is not noticeable to me it looked like it was getting bigger and bigger. And i kept yelling how are you coming, are you fine . When can i leave . He was a little nervous. When he says he kept asking. He said how are you coming, the earth is getting bigger. Jack did a fine job, he got very good alignment. Mie finally when he got it powered up, the lunar module looked like a packed garbage can. W we had big bags of degree that we accumulated and i went from the lunar module, closed the hatch, and it came in with a recovery that i think you saw better on tv they we felt on the spacecraft. When the helium tank burst, and you were suddenly rocking in the right way . Well, that was a lot of unfortunate incidents in 13. I thought it was the worst possible time for this to happy, but it wasnt. We were lucky in the fact that we had a base support that was well receptive to immediate organization and getting us the problems and the procedures to continue. We were extremely lucky this that. We found out that we could operate the spacecraft and we could do the proceeders with less systems. I was turning it off because i knew when we could not see stars, especially because of the debris out there and the venting from the Service Module that i would be very difficult to get alignment on my own. These are areas that i think we were lucky in. What did you have in mind when you made a remark i think this will be the last moon flight for a long time. That is a good question. We were going around the moon and we didnt know what was going on. They were bound to take pictures, at that time not knowing what we were going to do and they were getting as many pictures as possible i thought maybe this would be the last moon flight for a long time. Looking back on it now, and looking back on a way that nasa responded to help us get home, i dont think that any more. I think we will be able to about liez our problems and i think we can get our incident over with and can charge ahead. I would not be scared to fly with the fix. Jim, speaking of that subject, flying again, you said it would be your last flight but that you did want to walk on the moon before giving up flying. How do you feel now . Would you want to stake a crack at apollo 14, 15, and 16. Im very disappointed as fred and jack is that we could not complete the mission. We spent a lot of time on it, but this was my fourth, and there are many people who want to fly, who deserve to fly, and are talented enough to fly. They deserve the mission. If they feel that 15 should go back there, im willing to go back but i think other people ought to do. Youre ready to go back . You dont feel cheated . I would like to land it on the moon, but perhaps what we got out of the flight was also well worth it. In that connection we were told at all of the briefings before the flight that apollo 13s flight plan was important for the science you would get off of the moon but because of the pathfinder photography you would do subsequent to the landing. Do you think it will be necessary to refly the apollo 13 profile, and if so what crew would be Better Qualified for it than the one which trained for it for three years . On two days notice, jack could be placed, ken is the pestest best pilot, he knew that module better than anyone. Any crew put together can do any job. And if the shicientists feel its necessary to revisit, i think any crew can take the work that we did and improve upon it and do a good job. Are you saying young, mattingly, and duke would be a good crew . First, im not in the selection of people that fly spacecraft and im not in the scientific area to find out what areas should be revisited. We lost one lunar landing. We didnt make it. If it is worth it, our training, there is a lot to offer, then we should go back there. This is up for larger decisions and longer lead decisions. I wonder if the newcomers could tell us their impressions of the moon as they went whizzing by. We had already been told by jim what color it is. But i think my impression of it as we passed, the closest we got was 137 miles, and i think i have about the same impressions as the man that have visited previously. Very stark. It is desolate. Almost awesome in its desolation. We didnt get the chance because we were going to be doing a burn to really do any summation. What implications if any could this accident on apollo 13 have on future missions and deep Space Missions like mars or venus . Fred . Im not sure there is any sort of direct correlation that i can think of with exception maybe bringing home some of the problems and concerns. And making sure Environmental Control system can work equally well to keep their occupants comfortable for a normal operating level as well as emergency levels. Tim, you said people saw a better recovery than what we saw on the spacecraft, can you comment on what your feelings were at the time of splash down . When we hit the water, we were very happy to be back home and we commented on that fact. The recovery of 13 was almost textbook recovery. It was a calm day. The actual flash down itself was very mild, and the did a grand job. Im not prejudice of course, but we were, of course, disappointed that we did not complete the mission. How about the other two of you tells us how you feel about flying again and what experience meant in terms of your professional careers . I think what this has done for me, if anything, it has increased my confidence in the ability of this nations pace program to take an unusual situation and react to it and come out with a successful conclusion. I consider the recovery of the crew a successful mission, but i have nothing but the utmost appreciation for the people on the ground that worked tireless hours to get us back. I guess i might answer that by saying that some time this year ill have had 15 years with nasa and i dont figure ill retire for another 30 maybe, so ill just do whatever job the agency decides is the best place i can be and can contribute the most. Was there ever a moment where you or any other member of the group thought you did not have enough consumables to make it back and if so what were you feeling . As i said, our feelings varied during the emergency. There was moments i didnt know how much consumables we had. In one situation like that it is something you do, you just keep going and you just think about where you can get more consumables. And that is exactly what we did. Have you made any recommendations thus far on changes and procedures or redesigning of equipment based on your experience . No, this will all take place in the coming weeks. Looking at the Service Module, one of you said i think the explosion, from what i could see had stages, what made you think so and do you still think so. . The explosion what sir . The stages. I dont recall that incident. I thought it looked like a mess but i dont recall any other comments that i made. Terry . All of the time you were in recovery coming back you, grateful, and rightly so. Was there an awareness, or the same sort of an awareness of the Infinite Power watching you working to get you down . If youre asking whether or not i prayed, i certainly did. I had no doubt that my prayers and the prayers of the rest of the people contributed a lot for us getting back. At one point, there was a comment about the flight plan being read up to you and it was akin to reading war and peace over the air, i wounder what it was like to take it down. This was the i assume the procedure in the command module that was lengthy. We really threw away the book, we never powered down a command module in space. And we wanted to get it right. I read back every switch and every circuit breaker. It was a lengthy procedure. It was worked out and verified by the ground. Did you notice any unusual vibration when the j 2 shut down and if so could it have any effect at all on the Service Module. We noticed a vibration just prior to and during the number 5 engine shutting down on the boost faphase, but i have no evidence to say yes or no on that. A question for whoever wants to answer it. You asked if the flowers were blooming in houston yet. That was code apparently. And there is a movement in wisconsin for you to run against the senator there, would you comment on that . Yeah, they the first questi question, it was a code that weworked out. Really, asking a question about kens condition as to whether or not he had come down with the measles yet or not. And were still waiting for ken to come down with the moo measles. Jim, what about your political future . Jack, would you like to answer that question . No, i dont have any political affiliations in the state of wisconsin at this moment. I had no qualms about it at the time. I was not thinking because i knew we were reentering soon. I had no qualms at all. I dont know if youre aware how thick it is, but it takes a lot to damage that and i had no qualms at all. Jim, you were faced with a perhaps a precise of a flying job as you will ever face, but you say you had to fly a new method, will you elaborate a little on how you worked it out . They had been worked out before by crews, and the procedure that we normally practice for. As were slowing down, if something happened to the system on the main engine we might have to use the system engine to get us back home again. And to control this system, if the automatic control is not working, requires a translation controller. Fred and i practiced that. And that is the way we flew this particular device. But part of the power down sequence, the fdis as we call them, and because our platforms and and we go sboor what is a gymble lock. It is an area where we had to look at the computer that read out these various angels. This is a new mode of operation that we have practiced before, no one has flown it in flight were, but it worked out quite well. In light of the experience that you had on this flight, it would be advisable to stay on a return trajectory. I think it would limit our flight operations, somewhat. And i think the fact that we were not on one and the fact that we could get back on one, and it was not wired to so to stay on one. I would like to ask jack, did you at any time have any doubt of your ability to step in 14 hours before and fly a spacecraft . No, not really. The only a presengs thpprehensi that you Work Together as a crew, and i had not had much experience, i just worked with them once or twice previous. We found that the days we had working together we did everything the same and i had no apprehension hat all. I thought it i my job to get them there. I felt like i could accomplish the majority of the orbital science projections of the flight. And i felt that we had a good mission and we could do it all. Captain, did you consider at the time and do you consider now that this could have been a meteorite strike or something internal. This thought crossed our minds that it could have been a meteorite. I dont really have a complete answer whether it was or not. Whether or not it went in must have caused a larger bang to throw completely out and thats all i know about so far. After two days of debriefing could you give us the best cause of what blew your oxygen tank and ended your mission to the moon . I dont think i can. I dont think im in position to because our debriefing so far have been from the crews point of view. It is unique, we were a few feet away from the accident, but the people on the ground had a lot more information than woe had concerns pressures and temperatures, and have perhaps a better indication than we do of what caused it. Referring to wonderful the apollo crew might fly again, did that discussion take place at the briefing and could you tell us under what circumstances it did . No discussion of that nature took place. We will be glad to go. If they decide to send odd crew, that is their decision. Physically speaking, what hardship did you suffer from the most. Was it cold, lack of sleep, cramped conditions . Sorry, i didnt understand the question. What were the worst physical hardships for you, was it the cold, the lack of sleep, the uncomfortable position . Well, it certainly was the combination, but the overpowering was the slow chill down until the last 15 or 16 hours it was just, well, we were just chilled down to the bone from there on in and we didnt get warmed up until we went through the power up and started getting the lim back up and we started getting comfortable again. Along with this hardship, the lack of sleep, at least two occasions it was recommended that you might want to take a stimulant. Did you do anything to get yourself up for the reentry . We took it just prior to reentry. We didnt want to take it too early because i was afraid with the lack of sleep that if the affects wore off i would be in worse condition than i was right there then, and i didnt feel too tired. You work on a lot of Nervous Energy in this particular situation and i didnt want to get exhausted where by i wasnt in good shape. I would like to address this to jack. Has anyone nominated you as bachelor of the year being the first bachelor to go into space . No, maam, they havent. I think on that profound question we will knock it off and we thank you very much. Youre watching a special edition of American History tv airing now during the week while members of congress are working in their districts due to the coronavirus pandemic. Former Bush Administration officials Megan Osullivan and pete fever talk about their roles to increase american troop levels in iraq and their efforts to document these efforts in an oral history called the last card. This is the first of three programs on the surge that will air tuesday night. It will be at the Southern Methodist university. American history tv now and over the weekend on cspan 3. When it comes to trying to keep people from gathering together, how close are we to remote voting in that building behind me. Is one chamber closer to that happening than the other . No, it doesnt seem like it. Is there some type of guideline there . I think this virus is, of course, it is more transmisable. Do you have any way to push Disaster Recovery preparedness to it is more of a top priority instead of the second most important priority . Im smiling as you say that because im shocked that you said second, often times i think it is dead last. Join our live conversation every morning on washington journal that starts at 7 00 a. M. Eastern. Up next on cspan 3, an oral history with former astronaut james lovell. He was commander of apollo 13 in 1970, a mission to land on the moon that was aborted. The interview is from the Oral History Program at the Johnson Space center. This is the Johnson SpaceCenter Original history project, may 25th, 1999, at the Johnson Space center. When you were a little kid, you saw a rocket go off and you said i want to do that . Is it that simple or that complex . You know, i was interested in rockets and astronomy long before the glenns and the shepherds of the world could spell rocket. I was interested in it way back in high school. I wasnt to try to build some rockets. I wanted to be a rocket engineer. I wrote to the American Rocket Society at that time which is now the aaia or Something Like that, and i said i want to be a rocket engineer, they wroek back a let near said you ought to go to mit or cal tech. I could not afford either, so i got an rotc appointment to wisconsin and then from there i