Transcripts For CSPAN3 House Subcommittee Hearing On Veteran Food Insecurity 20240713

Work in the Economic Opportunity subcommittee. Without objection the chair is authorized to calle for recess at any time. Todays hearing is entitled redoing the availability of resources to address veteran hunger. Im hopeful we can shed some light on a very important issue for veterans around the country. This hearing will examine department of Veterans Affairs and department of Agriculture Programs identify Food Insecurity among nearly 20 million veterans and provide nutrition assistance for those in need. Specifically, today through aly focus on how veterans access nutrition resources come out recent policy changes have impacted the availability of resources, and how congress can more effectively support public and nonpublic agencies that seek to end veteran hunger, so critically important. This continues the subcommittees efforts to get economic factors that contribute to veteran suicide which we note include homelessness and hunger. Our subcommittee works in a bipartisan way to strengthen education and job Training Programs so veterans can get a good job but, unfortunately, thats not always the outcome. Sometimes joblessness result in a veteran and their family members experiencing hunger. When that occurs nutrition resources should and must be made readily available. However, this committee is concerned that decisions are being made regarding these resources without thoroughly considering the impact on veterans. This subcommittee and congress as a whole need to know how usda considers the effect on veterans as they proposed regulatory changes limiting access to nutrition programs last year. If veterans were not considered, we must understand why usda felt it was unnecessary or that they were unable to do so, and how we can ensure veterans are considered now and in the future. In addition to ensuring the availability of resources, it is essential that we help veterans secure them. Since 2017, v. A. Has screened millions of veterans for hunger, but it is unclear how that policy is being carried out, and what v. A. Is doing when a veterans in need is identified. The many federal and state programs that assist veterans forgr experiencing hunger and only be utilized if veterans are aware of them. This is particularly fitting matter for our subcommittee which has spent this congress on policies to improve veterans economic outcomes and ultimately their overall wellness. We have a responsibility to ensure that no veteran falls through the cracks, and i look for during the testimony from Witnesses Today to do just that. With that i now recognize my friend, Ranking Member bilirakis with whom ive worked on a bipartisan basis now for five minutes for his opening statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Mr. Chairman, i want to thank the witnesses as well who will testify today on the important issue of veteran hunger. Food security for veterans as well as all americans is an essential component for a stable life. Food insecurity can be a contributor factor that could be detrimental to a persons mentalta health. It is important for us to evaluate the way were providing the security to ensure that it is being provided in the most effective manner to help those who need it the most. Mr. Chairman, need of us or members of congress when president clinton signed the person responsible at work opportunity reconciliation act of 1996, also known as the welfare reform act of 1996 into law. By the way, that was a bipartisan bill and a good bill, in my opinion. But right now, states are bypassing its original intent. This law was a bipartisan effort as a said to require work or training for work in exchange for the time related financial assistance. This law also included those to get back to work as a means to reduce the fiscal burden on the federal government and prevent what we now call a multigenerational poverty so we want to prevent multi generational poverty something but again thats what we should be striving for and i know that is your goal as well. The eligibility allows the states to circumvent income and ask them to have Assistance Programs to benefit based on nothing more than an individual receiving a brochure currently or a pamphlet 2. 9 million ablebodied adults without these methods that participate or not working and the number of people currently participating still exceeds pre recession session levels and i would like to hear from our panel today on why they think this is happening today with such a low Unemployment Rate why are we seeing so many purchase of continuing to not work and live on these benefits . I would also like to hear from the panel weighs the congress can help lift these people out of poverty and allow them to prosper in this booming economy. With that being said, the Unemployment Rate is now 3. 6 with the veteran Unemployment Rate mr. Chairman and it is obvious the economy is booming. Americans are returning to work in record numbers and encouraging employment is the foundation for congressauthorization of the program which is why im supportive of the administrations rule on ablebodied adults that implement the work requirements from the 1996 law held up as the supply we know surprisingly very well about how the program affects veterans. We simply do not have the idea on the veterans using this program or how to become prevalent. You were not here last congress so you may not be aware that despite requests from our side of the aisle the federal government still doesnt require states to conduct meaningful Data Collection on the participants including tracking of veterans. I know we have veterans that are having a hard time because i participated in those standout programs at least on a yearly basis. Bynot tracking the information both congress and the department of agriculture they are left in the dark about how to improve this program. I would like to work with you and our colleagues on the House Agricultural Committee to address this issue by putting in place the requirement for states to track the benefits for veterans and our heroes. My priority, and i know it is yours as well, some states already do this but not all. Im grateful to the witnesses for giving an opportunity particularly those involved in the program and i look forward to hearing what they believe works, doesnt work and how we can empower those that involve these programs to ensure no one that has served our country goes hungry. That is the bottom line and that is our goal and i thank you for holding this hearing and i would yield back the balance of my time. I think the Ranking Member for his remarks and i also have participated in the veteran stand down programs in my district and appreciate the objectives here and look forward to working in a bipartisan basis with you. And would like to recognize my friend the outstanding turn in on the house Veterans Affairs committee for his opening remarks. I was concerned by the changes that took place last year and how in particularly it would impact veterans but also active duty, guard and reserve. The guard reservists particularly often face employment challenges, so we need to find out more. We need better data. As with the chairman and many members of congress, joined in sending the letter to senator on may 24, 2019 reflecting the many concerns without good data we dont know the scope of the program and we need the data that can be done in conjunction with vha appointments, but also other interactions like awards, changes in benefits with also local populations by students and the Homeless Population students and transitioning veterans. Many questions exist. So i do appreciate you joining us this morning. We are very, very concerned about how the changes in terms of the benefits are going to affect our nations veterans active duty guard and reservists. Thank you and i will yield back. I appreciate your interest in the subject and your continued leadership, that brings us to the witnesses. We have two panelists with us today the first representing the administration and the second is made up of nongovernmental policy experts. First i want to thank the usda for joining us on this important topic. From the usda we have the administrator for the food and Nutrition Service. We also have doctor thoma, the senior medical adviser at the providence va medical center, thanks for being here. Hes accompanied by christine, the cochairperson of the pas ensuring veterans Food Security work great. As you know you will have five minutes for your statement with your full written statement will be added to the record and with that, administrator miller you are now recognized for five minutes. Make sure your microphone is on. Thank you, mr. Chairman, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee. Im pam miller administrator of the usda food and Nutrition Service which is responsible for administering the nations nutrition Assistance Program. Im pleased to be joining my colleagues from the department of Veterans Affairs and appreciate the cooperative relationship we have had in serving veterans together. We all owe great debts to the veterans who protected and defended our nation. Theyve earned our respect and honor and deserve our support, and if they may face the challenges of life after military service. These programs are not targeted to the veterans specifically, but provides Food Assistance veterans and families may need, particularly in tough times. The largest program, the supplemental nutrition Assistance Program, or snap, currently serves about 36 million lowincome americans each month. Since the data suggests about 1. 3 million veterans reported receiving snap in 2017. Let me make clear that because the veteran status is not a condition of the snap eligibility, we do not have that status as a part of the data sets that we used to estimate the impact of the rules. Congress debated the collection of the information in the last farm bill and decided that it wasnt necessary or appropriate at this time, so i will focus on the reform. The goal for these actions is to align the program of a statute established by congress to reduce inequities among participants and encourage households towards selfsufficiency. Those eligible to receive nutrition assistance should be treated fairly across the country read over the years, states policies that compromise consistency with certain standards defined in a statute or by allowing households in one state to be eligible for snap or to receive the benefits more than other states. Last month, the usda finalized a final rule to help more ablebodied adults between the ages of 18 and 49 who do not have dependent or ablebodies promising futures to the job training and employment. Is a robust economy, unemployment at a 50 year low of 3. 5 if more than 7. 3 million job openings theres no better time to engage this group of participants to get the skills they need to be successful in the job market. This rule doesnt change the requirements for those that were set in the 1996 welfare reform law and have been unchanged in every bill since time limits do not apply to children. Their parents, pregnant women, the mentally or physically disabled or anyone 50 years of age or older. Importantly the disability exception includes veterans who are totally disabled, permanently homebound or in need of a regular attendance. The subject to the time limits can receive this in a threeyear pair must they are working, volunteering or participating in training such as the Employment Training program or one of the va Work Programs for at least 20 hours a week. These limits account for the fact of all participants were fit for an claimant. States mustalignment. States must screen the participants further ability to work and can xm part of the caseload from the time limit of the full discretion as established in the wall. The final rule didnt change any of these policies. What they did this clarify when and where the states may seek to waive time limits for those who do not need these work requirements. Previous regulations are so loosely with unemployment 2. 5 were waved areas implementing the limits were the jobs where the jobs are available encourages them to realize their potential, have a sense of community and move towards an independent lifestyle. Two other proposals are pending, one would eliminate the loophole called broadbased eligibility, used to provide the benefits without conducting a robust eligibility determination, resulting in the households that exceed the statutory thresholds. The other would modernize the calculation the state standard utility allowances, which are important in calculating the benefit amounts. Under current policy policy and one policy in one seat an elderly person is receiving benefits 2. 5 times as much as an elderly person across the state line in a similar situation simply because of the standard utility allowance. Those proposals promote a level Playing Field for the participants with all treated fairly and consistently. The period for each is closed and analyzing the comments to determine the extent. Other programs also help the veterans and im happy to address those as well. So, in closing i am confident we can provide americans, veteran heroes with the services and support that they deserved, not only a nutritional safety net, but these programs can help launch participants on a path to a Better Health and a better life. Thank you and i am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, doctor otoole youre now recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. Good morning chairman, Ranking Member bilirakis and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today on ending that are in hunger. I am accompanied by ms. Christina of the cochair of the ensuring veteran Security Work group. There are three points i want to emphasize. One veteran experiencing Food Insecurity is one too many perk according to the most recent Department Agricultural survey data more than 11 percent of all households in one out of three households have less than 130 percent of the federal Poverty Level to experience Food Insecurity. Despite the robust economy and record low Unemployment Rates we have been experiencing. Among veterans while the overall rate is lower, specific populations including younger veterans with families and those with depression and psychiatric illnesses are particularly vulnerable. In one study 27 percent of iraq and Afghanistan War veterans reported Food Insecurity. Another 48. 5 percent of Homeless Veterans lack regular access to food. The consequences of food and security are substantial and significant. Research has consistently shown the lack between regular access to food diabetes hypertension, and asthma and anxiety and suicidal ideation. It is associated with reduced activities to be two times more likely to report poor health. Food insecurity is a social determinant that alone not having stable housing to experience violence and others are strong predictors for high risk among veterans federal International Studies have linked Food Insecurity and suicide risk. It is within this context i would like to shift we are doing about it. We had the workgroup the program of nonprofit agencies to identify veterans at risk to coordinate resources and initiatives. Milestones over the past three to half years include, implementing Electronic Medical record screening tool to identify Food Insecurity to date almost 100,000 food insecure veterans have been identified men and women who might otherwise have gone unnoticed streamlining enrollment of veterans through snap including partnering with usda to create veteran specific education materials Training Programs for staff including a toolkit to support food insecure veterans and expanding onsite or a mobile food pantry there are 57 food pantries in place including the 17 va feeding america pantries that serve 700,000 meals. To conclude, having enought to eating is a basic human need and nobody should be going without food it is a major determinant of health viewed no differently than primary care it is linked to manager friday of Health Conditions not the least of which include Mental Health and suicide risk. Across the va we are committed to have the highest quality care the veterans deserve going back to the 1921 verterans bureau act legislation we have the mandate for the health and wellbeing and the welfare of those we serve well we probably note the progress made to address Food Insecurity, there is more we can and will do for veteran hunger we need to increase the number of food pantries to address the urgent need for food. We need to facilitate snap to ensure more consistent access and address the root causes of Food Insecurity through social determinant of Health Focused intervention. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and we are prepared to answer any questions the committee may have have. I recognize myself for five minutes to begin the question portion tof the hearing. I did notice he citation that congress rejected veteran Data Tracking but its my understanding as well congress rejected the very rules that you hear defending today and there might still be a freshman Member Congress but have some sense of the actions taken by this body in recent years, particularly marble of chairing the subcommittee. Dr. Otoole and ms. Going, a couple of questions for you. What proportion of the veterans who screened positive for Food Insecurity does the va assist with s. N. A. P. Eligibility screenings, application assistance or referrals . Thank you, mr. Chairman. All of our veterans are screened positive are provided assistance. Id like to defer to miss going on some of the specific interventions that are social workers and registered dietitians to engage i that process. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Yes, any veteran who screened positive is initially offered compensation with a social worker and toee our dietitian and in both cases they care is customized what the better needs and one ofcu the questions is are you currently receiving s. N. A. P. If they are we provide additional services, if they are not we assist him and applying for s. N. A. P. Benefits. V. A. Does monitor ongoing Food Security staff participation for veterans who initially screened positive for Food Insecurity . We dont monitor exactly who has snapped or who does not. Its part of the individual questioning but not data that is captured. So you do not. How has the va with usda and with Community Partners to create resources or materials to help raise awareness and respond to veteran Food Insecurity as it exists . Thank you, mr. Chairman. We have worked with usda and mazon to develop veteran specific material on how to apply for snap and also engaged nationwide that each facility is responsible for developing very specific list of resource because resource is different. Each facility has been asked to establish that list based on their local resources. It seems to me thats a good start. It seems we can always be doing better and i guess i wanted to ask what is preventing v. A. From taking more proactive efforts to respond to the needs of veterans who screened positive for Food Insecurity . Mr. Chairman, i would agree with you. Theres more we can do and that is one of the efforts and activities were actively engaged in to this workgroup. We clearly need to be as proactive in connecting veterans to services but i think also ensuring that the consequences of Food Insecurity that may be manifest in worsening health or Mental Health can be concurrently addressed. Thank you for that. Adminstrator miller, coming considering the proposed rule regarding s. N. A. P. Time limit for ablebodied adults without dependents did usda consoled with v. A. Or analyze the impact specific of the impact on veterans, and if so, how many veterans did you determine would be impacted . We have data that does encompass the entire s. N. A. P. Population. So as we are putting forth the rules and look at our Regulatory Impact analysis, we looked at our entire s. N. A. P. Population, how they would be affected and in their does include veterans. But as i said, we dont have specific data sets on veterans because congress has not given us that authority to collect those types of information. It you consult with v. A. . We did not. Did you analyze the impact on veterans specifically . It wouldve been part of our entire s. N. A. P. Population data set that we collect. But not specifically . Because we dont have that data, because its not a condition of eligibility are not able to specifically assess that. Thats important to understand. How about for the proposed ruleal on broadbased categorical eligibility . The answer would be the same. Again we look at the impacts on our broad s. N. A. P. Population, but if congress were willing to engage in Technical Assistance and have conversation, so if Congress Gives attitude to give that data were happy to do so. I soon the editors of the same for the proposed proposal on the standard utility allows . Yes, sir. Despite the fact that you say you didnt have the congressional authorization to Carry Forward a dialogue with none the less you knew your own statement iau believe you said 1. 3 million veterans receive s. N. A. P. In 2017 . Yes. You knew veterans were a uniquely Important Community as part of the step program, did you not . Our program serves all low income americans who need assistance, and so they wouldve been captured in our data set for the entire s. N. A. P. Population. Veterans and the significance, additional importance to you given their service to our nation where even a a phone call to v. A. Was warranted . We certainly want to make sure were serving all low income americans including veterans. So thats a no. You never contacted v. A. . We did not contact v. A. Thank you for that. Ill go it and yield to the Ranking Member kaine for his questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Ms. Miller, were interest in better Data Collection for veterans as s. N. A. P. Whats most efficient way to gather that information . The best way to gather this information is to the s. N. A. P. Application process. And so we have more, when with more detailed information to the s. N. A. P. Application process, thats the best way for us to gather that data. What if were to require on the application that households report their veteran status as a condition of eligibility, that doesnt are a statutory change and thats what we are lacking at this point. Would take an act of congress and the states to collect that information, why cant usda require states to provide this data on their own . Because it would be adding a condition of eligibility to the s. N. A. P. Application process which requires a statutory change. So what fs and find a use for it. If we could collect the data that would be useful. The usda just filed that without the rule. Why does it believe the criteria for state waivers from the congressional mandate need to be changed. We have seen right now as we have a very robust economy there are more Jobs Available then there are people who are seeking jobs and so this is an opportunity for us to really engage these able bodied adults without dependents with the resources to help them get into their career field. We have a snap Employment Training program we can also work through the va work program and so many others of our state and local partners. To help engage the population. We have seen areas as low as to a half that have been waived. We think this is a Good Opportunity to engage these people and making sure that they are able to return to the workforce. When do these changes take effect. The final rule will be implemented on april 1. Why are you y making these changes when the 2018 farm bill made no changes . We have the authority our authority was retained so that we could address the issue and so using our authority that we have we are able to do this final role. Has this administration done anything to change the work requirements that were passed as part of that the welfare reform act and the obama administrations this final rule does not change the work requirements. It does not change the time limits. This first was passed on a bipartisan basis. It has remained unchanged for more than 20 years. Very good. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you very much mister chairman and i share the concern of many folks here that too many veterans are food insecure. They are experiencinget Economic Hardship including not knowing where their next meal will come from. I think we need to leave her with a sense that there is so much more to do for those who had worn the uniform of this country and pledged everything to this country. Its our job to make sure that they are taking care of. I wanted to build on a question that was asked about these rule changes. He ask you for a rationale about why these changes were made and why you sought to propose these rules. You responded by saying we have the authority i think were not doubting the authority but can you explain a little bit more about the rationale and talk about the broader population that will be impacted. How many will lose snap benefits . Using our authority we were able to implement this final role but what we are seeing is that there give her more job openings than those who are seeking jobs. Knowing this is an able bodied adult without dependents so were talking about individuals between the ages of 18 and 49. The states have responsibility to be sure that they are screening everyone for their assessment for work and so we are hopeful that if we can engage this population we can really put them on a pathan towards a better future. States do have the ability to exempt a certain percentage of their case load if they are having difficulty finding work or reentering work. We have had employers reach out to the snap program about how can we engage the snap participants and make sure theyre getting job training and skills that they need to help fill some of the jobs that are out there. This is a great opportunity to engage this population. You do have numbers for the broader population. And how that will decrease as far as that rule change. 688,000 is what they showed in fy 21. It may not meet the work requirements. They may lose snap benefits. Were talking about thousands of veterans among this. To we have got to do all we can to make sure that those vets get what they need. I appreciate the work of the working group and what youre doing. To help our vets. Im wondering mister otoole if you could talk a little bit about those vets that are not seeking care at the va in what theyre doing to reach out to the broader population as we talk about Mental Health and suicide of most of the vets that are died by suicide are not connected to care at the va. A similar situation here. How do we get to them and how do we reach them . Think thank you mister congressman for the question. I think it is important one to acknowledge and that Veterans Health administration and those enrolled in care they represent only a proportion of all of those men and women who have served our country the va has launched several initiatives principally through our Suicide Prevention program as a means of engaging some of those veterans at highest risk to try to bring them into the system. You are right to note that many of the suicides occurring are occurring among veterans who are not enrolled in vha. Several initiatives undertaken to help bring some of those veterans into our system as well as to provide Community Resources to them. Include the other than Honorable Discharge capacities for veterans to seek Emergency Care and other care within the va system. I think bringing them within that venue is clearly an option and an opportunity. I would like to defer to the specific issues within the workgroup that may speak to some of Community Partnerships you referenced. Thank you mister congressman. The working group has on an annual basis at dunn education that goes from the field to the outside. They were advertised to our Community Partners so that they could participate. You did not had to be a veteran using that the vha to be able to listen and participate in our series and we are currently working on a podcast. Its not limited to just veterans receiving care within the h vhs. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that i understand one thing. You know the number of veterans that receive snap. Yet, you cannot tell me how many veterans will be impacted. So i will ask both agencies since youre both here can you commit to Work Together to inform this committee how many veterans will be impacted by this proposed rule making . Were happy to Work Together and look at the data that we have and follow up with you sir. We will followup and make sure that we can do everything we can to get that data. Unfortunately they couldve been here to stay but i guess this is going to be recorded on cspan or something so you can view he can view it if he chooses. Thats why we are having this hearing. When it comes to our guard in reserve as opposed to let say servicemen and women serving on active duty who just serve honorably and then move on with their lives and can be impacted by the subject matter that were talking about today is there any data out there that suggests an broken out by guard and reserve when it comes to Food Insecurity. For those of us who served in the Garden Reserve you dont really move your family when you get activated and deployed and when youre activation is complete than in most cases you will return home to your hometown and go back to whatever business you were in before and then continue on as the guard and reserve duties. The stability on some cases it does not mirror. Men and women serving actively. And find themselves at risk. Is there any data out there that suggest suggests any correlation between the stability of home life and the Garden Reserve and active when we come to the subject. I think your point is will taken in terms of the specific needs and issues. I would have to did for to the dod on any data that they been collecting. I do know that feeding america has conducted some work and its been involved in collecting some of that data. We do not have that. That is quite an opportunity for dod, va, usda whoever else to collaborate on the sharing of data as it relates to all men and women who serve in uniform whether they be active guard reserve. You mentioned about the time between Food Insecurity and suicide risk. Its been stated from you and from a peer that many of these veterans at risk are outside the va healthcare system. Have you tried anything or considered anything that would allow different ways to reach the population outside the va. I heard podcast. If that veteran is not any Different Things that you had tried yet whether to be successful or not. As i mentioned some of the Suicide Prevention initiatives of reaching out to the community is one example of how we can be tapped into that population and try to reach out and engage in a community way. To not only veterans and men and women who served. The issues and needs in needs within those outreach efforts. Is there more we can do, absolutely. It will always be a challenge. Those are several efforts across different Population Group needs that provide opportunities for us. You can take this for the record. What help can we as Veterans Affairs committee give to va, in this case to enable an outreach that is not currently occurring because people are outside the system. With that mister chairman i yield back. And now i would like to recognize ms. Lee for five minutes. Thank you all for being here. This is such an important issue for our veterans we discovered the oversight hearing. In the proposed snap rule. The finding was that it eliminates access for about a million schoolchildren to free and reduced lunch. To be on this committee with this rule. With the initial Regulatory Impact. It continued to pursue the rule. I just wanted to point out that frustration. In my home state of nevada, they receive snap benefits and we know that low income veterans may be unemployed or have a disability. It provides such an essential support that enables them to purchase food for their families. Given this pattern. I just want to raise a question about the usdas priority. Why has the usda prioritize regulatory actions that would reduce state flexibility and limit access to snap and increase Food Insecurity rather than actions that would be more proactive and responsive . Thank you for the question. It is to align the program with the statute. Its very clear in setting income limits as well as asset limits for who should be receiving snap. We are trying to align the program with the statue and make sure that participants are treated fairly and consistently across the country. The folks are going to be determined eligible very differently then folks that are in virginia for example. What were trying to do is to make sure everyone is on a level Playing Field regardless of which state you live in. The statute divides that for us. Basically it is our duty to change the statute. Congress has that ability to do so. We are happy to work with you all. After any legislative proposals that you would like to pursue. Ty we know there are millions of americans who are experiencing Food Insecurityy including veterans and our are eligible for snap but dont receive the benefits. How is the usda addressing that snap participation gap . We want to make sure that the program does reach those doesnt reach those who are in need. States have the ability and they do some outreach in making sure that they work with different partners whether it be other federal agencies or our collaboration has been with the va and making sure that we have provided some training for their caseworkers. So they know some of those requirements. I think there are some outreach opportunities at the state level. So the usda as not taking any ownership of that its really through those partnerships . The law prohibits us from direct outreach for snap. Dr. Otoole i wanted to thank you for coming in today. I am concerned given the findings of the 2013 study. They tend to be younger and not married earning lower incomes at a lower military pay scale i cant help but be concerned about student vets. You listed numerous actions been listed by the va. The Food Insecurity and i applaud that. What can we do to capture students with veteran hunger . The Population Groups that you mentioned are all very vulnerable. And part of that vulnerability comes from melanie challenge many challenges that they have. While still bearing the scars of battlee and many of the challenges that are associated with that whether its pc ptsd or something else. Being able to fully engage. Its clearly an issue. The role of student veterans and the dynamics that they are struggling with. And the shortfalls they may occur. Their capacity to sustain a household are equally pronounced. Different plans and actions that we may be able to do. I appreciate you bringing it up. My time has expired. I would not like to recognize my friend Mister Barth Bart for five minutes. R thank you for holding this important hearing and addressing this issue of Food Insecurity. With the passion. We talked about this before. I know he is very passionate about it. We care very deeply especially when we find those people. And veterans who dont. His struggle with the Food Insecurity. I was moved by your testimony that when you said that the insecurity screening found that over the last two years one and half of all veterans are screening positive for Food Insecurity. I just think wow. What about those veterans who dont even get the screening. My view is for a veteran that is not disabled especially a veteran and that is not disabled in without dependents. The best thing we can do for that veteran is get them a good job. It addresses the issue of Food Insecurity. Is great for the employer. They have great skills to offer. The economy is doing really well right now and we have a million more job openings in this country than we have unemployed people. What if we could fill those job openings with veterans. I want to talk about what the usda is doing to try to encourage work getting folks back into the labor market. Lets ask the first question to miss miller. Why does the usda believed that the believe that the criteria for state waivers. Need to be changed . As you just commented it is really focused on the fact that we do have a robust economy right now and there are more job openings available that there are job seekers. This seems like the perfect environment where we should be engaging this. And so, we had programs such as our snap Employment Training Program States are required to run those programs we do provide them with formula funding as well as we have the have the opportunity to provide matching funds as they continue to expand. These ablebodied adults. It is congressjob to change the statutory requirement. I for one i dont want to change the statutory requirements. I think they had impeded people from getting back in the workforce. Lets go back to the statute. Lets just examine that for a minute. It limits participation by adults 18 to 49. Without a dependent and without a disability. Were not talking about veterans with disabilities here. Were talking about nondisabled between the ages of 18 and 49. There is a time limit. Unless the individual is working or participating in a work program and at least 80 hours per month. They dont even have to work. Do something that gives them work capable. In my describing the underlining cap statute correctly. I dont think it is stingy. I think it actually creates great positive incentives to do something to get them back into a productive place where they can be selfsufficient. To mefi that is exactly what we need to be promoting. To the extent that states are impeding that incentive structure i think that does a great disservice to the heroes of our country t and encouraging them to be more independent than independent. Em one final question. They tell a story of a navy veteran. They were not extended even though the department of labor ruled him unable to work. What impact peopleo in similar situations. That was an unfortunate situation and so the states have the responsibility to be sure that they are properly screening individuals for work. If there are situations like that we can certainly work with the states to provide Technical Assistance. That would satisfy those requirements. That individual would not be subject to the final role that we are talking about. Thank you n we appreciate your comments and working with you on this issue on a bipartisan basis. We would like to recognize ms. Rice for five minutes. I dont have a question i just had a comment i cant believe that we are here talking about this. We should be humiliated that we are talking about taking food away from any man or woman however ablebodied they may be. Who wore the uniform of this country they must strive to build communities. And protect our veterans from the very first moment they returned to civilian life. Those are the words of president trump. For him to allow you a ban band like this basically. To take food out of the mouths of a veteran nothing short of unamerican and inhumane. I cant even believe we are stalking about this. And you are sitting here talking about terms like level Playing Field. This is disgusting. We are sitting at piercing what can we do. I think we all know what we can do and wet should just do it so we dont have to hear people like you talking about level Playing Field. Not being able to get food. Thank you mister chairman. I would now like to recognize mister musfor five minutes. Thank you all. So clearly a difficult issue one in which i think we all agree in the end anyone who cannot afford to maintain a level of attrition and food particularly a veteran. We as a country and community. Myself, they donate regularly to food banks. There are some food banks that exist for the purpose of veterans. What we need to figure out is how to get it done. In a way that is accountable. I have the va in my district it takes a very holistic view of veteran services they work with Many Community organizations to connect whenever they feel like there are benefits that arent in line with what the best interest of the veteran as. And they are deserving. Is that a best practice that is encouraged or modeled or taught for other vas to really take this holistic approach ask the questions not just look at the data of what their income levels are . Thank you congressman for that question. And to get highlights get highlights an important pointt and it really underscores what we view in the va as our mission. And we see our role and job is going far beyond just making sure that we are managing a health problem. And really trying to take care of the entire veteran and that extends through many examples and i would wholeheartedly concur with the great work thats being done. In the staff there. A great testimony an example of what were trying to do. It gets back to the larger issue. We have to look at Food Insecurity not only in isolation but what are the root causes to it. And work with the veteran and support the veteran through the context of helping them secure an additional housing. To addressing Domestic Violence issues. That goes far beyond the prescription. I appreciate you bringing that up. Its also the strategic approach that we have taken to the Food Insecurity screener. And the interdisciplinary is a much deeper problem than just food. It to commend the the department of Veterans Affairs. The mission act the veteran choice act. Have been implemented. And your staff. Most of you are veterans. You have dedicated your lives more or less to serving veterans. In to see that throughout the Veterans Administration and its appreciated. It is appreciated by the veterans and their families. They have seen improvements not from just the va but the va as a whole. All we always saw was disasters. Within various Veterans Administrations but the work that has been done we are caring for our veterans better now. Is there work to do, absolutely. Such thing as the improve act. That we need to pass. And provide more Community Services with a hybrid approach. We really commend you for your work and dedication. The other thing i wanted to ask you is the usda who was very active in my district and the department of Veterans Affairs do they work in unison. Are there collaborative efforts there in this regard related to food . We work closely. Theyre hoping to connect vets into our programs. I yelled back at mister chairman. I would like to call up our second panel and while everyone is switching around we will take just a minute. Udible conversations] alright. Thank you everybody. On the second panel today we have josh, a jewish response to hunger, thank you for being here. Also joining us is Denise Hollywood. And finally we have vince hall the ceo of feeding san diego. Thank you all so much for joining us. Im looking forward to getting your perspective. As you know we will have five minutes for the oral statement but the full written statement will be added to the record. Please use the microphone. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is josh protas. The jewish response to hunger. It takes to heart their responsibility to care for the most vulnerable in our midst without judgment or precondition. For nearly ten years we have addressed the long overlooked issue. It is the most crucial tool. Unfortunately it is under attack through administrative actions that will increase hunger and hardship for struggling veterans. I would like to tell you about one of these individuals. Tim, a navy veteran in maine. Tim could not return to work. Because the state of maine chose not to waive the time limit. Tim lost benefits after only three months. Three months is the limit not 36. They had pass them along in the bureaucratic maze. Nobody had an answer for tim. They have no assistance and became homeless. He resorted to scrounging for food and catching squirrels to eat. Reflecting on this time he shared there were many times i would go two or three days without food. They have only limited resources. Snap can easily save lives. We know that it helps about the veterans. They are struggling with hunger. They should not be forced to ask what should i eat because they cant get the help that they need. They Must Withdraw the three harmful proposals that would strip them for millions of americans including veterans. It would restrict waivers. It is not a reflection of the reality of the struggling americans. Without understanding how they will impact americans veterans. They can often trigger that. Improving access to snap. It is important tool in the campaign to end veteran suicide and needs to be prioritized. Two, connect veterans to snap. We are pleased that they took the advice in 2015 to start screening veterans but the current process is not doing enough and it does not caption all veterans who struggle. Those who are at risk of Food Insecurity. They should require and provide onsite snap eligibility application assistance, which is not happening broadly. Three, the nutrition assistance information. They should integrate materials about programs like snap. Re and other veteran outreach efforts. Include this information as part of the new solid Star Initiative and work with the usda and Community Partners like mazon to develop veteran specific resources about snap. Four, listen to veterans. Negative Public Perceptions are ramped up by proposals to restrict the programs. This creates a Chilling Effect and adds to the stigma and shame that makes veterans and others reluctant to seek help. They should hold a followup hearing to listen to veterans who had real insecurities. Lastly, Congress Must address that related issue of hunger. It is an urgent matter of National Security. Military readiness. Retention and recruitment. The best way we can support and honor the veterans is to ensure that they have what they need and never had to struggle with hunger. When tim turned 50 he was able once against to get the assistance he so desperately needed. Tim is in a much better place now he wants to make sure that others veterans and nonveterans alike do not fall through the cracks like he did. Thank you, i look forward to your questions. I would now like to recognize mrs. Hollywood for her opening statement. Mister chairman, Ranking Members thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today my name is Denise Hollywood and im the chief community and Program Officer at blue star families. It builds communities that support military families by connecting research and data to programs and solutions. Since its inception in 2009, we have engaged tens of thousands of volunteers and service more than 1. 5 million family members. Blue star families is nationally recognized for our National Survey which uses both quantitative and qualitative data to reveal a snapshot of the current status of military families. In our 2018 survey over 10,000 respondents found that 7 of military family respondents and 12 of veteran family respondents indicated that someone in their household had faced Food Insecurity in the past year. 9 of military family respondents and 18 of veteran family respondents indicated that someone in their household had sought emergency Food Assistance through a food bank, food bank or charitable organization. In order to comprehend the issue of Food Insecurity among veteran families, we must first understand the factors that contribute to Food Insecurity. Such factors include high rates of Military Spouse unemployment and underemployment, limited of availability and the high cost of childcare outofpocket relocation and housing expenses and unexpected financial emergencies. Many of these factors arise from frequent relocation due to military orders. According to department of defense activeduty military families relocate on average once every two to three years typically across state lines or overseas. Partly because employers are wary of hiring individuals who have gaps in their resumes as a result of previous moves. If they work in the license profession he or she must also undergo the costly process of relicensing and a new state. In 2018, we found that 30 a Military Spouse respondents were unemployed. This dwarfs the Unemployment Rate which in 2018 was less than 4 . 56 percent of military families who would have liked to be employed cited childcare as a reason to why they are not currently working. Meanwhile, 70 of millennial military family respondents reported that having two incomes was vital to the familys wellbeing thus the Military Spouse employment crisis directly contributes to Food Insecurity by preventing military families from achieving a vital second source of income. The Financial Difficulties are further compounded by frequent out of pocket expenses. Although the federal government covers the majority of the expenses incurred due to relocation one third of respondents responded spending over a thousand dollars in unreimbursed expenses during the last military move. All of these factors outofpocket expenses, spouse unemployment and others can contribute to Food Insecurity among currently serving families. Food insecurity among activeduty military families does not end when Service Members retire. The Financial Difficulties of military families can be aggravated by transition related challenges. It is critical that we work to address the underlying causes of military and veteran families. It can take immediate steps to address hunger by protecting and strengthening programs like snap that alleviate veteran hunger and instructing the usda to be more proactive in their efforts to keep insecurity. In the va partnerships with nonprofits to help reach veterans who are not receiving services. The federal government must also work to expand the Data Collection so as to better inform policy responses to these issues. This our families as well situated. I would like to thank the distinguished members of our subcommittee for their efforts does he make significant sacrifices for our country should never struggle to put food on the table. Thank you. Thank you miss hollywood. I would like to recognize mister hall thank you for all of your good work in my neck of the woods in north county san diego. Thats all a feeding san diego which is leading hunger relief food organization. We are also a very proud member of the network. San diego county is 4500 square miles and has a population of 3. 4 Million People making it larger than 20 u. S. States. It has one of the largest concentrations of veteran personal in the world. The National Guard armory is a critical part of this Nations National defense infrastructure. The activeduty military 260,000 military dependents, 243,000 veterans and over 1. 2 million. They had direct ties to the military is a proud heritage but it comes with solemn responsibility. Greatest among this responsibility is to ensure that they have a dignified quality of life about all too often despite the efforts of our government it falls to organizations like feeding san diego and feeding america to close this significant gap between what our heroes had and what they need to provide for their families. I am proud of my organization but i take no pride in the fact that our country stations people in san diego without paying them enough to live in san diego. And i take no pride in seeing ever larger numbers of veterans lining up. To help the from stores. 97 percent of which was rescued food according to the usda 40 of the food in this country goes to waste every day. Dozens of other sources we also rescued fresh produce. We are proud to partner with religious and charitable organizations across the country who had worked handinhand with us. Many of the organizations are specifically focused on the need of veterans and activeduty active duty military families. Iv the courage to call. In support of the listed arproject. Our Distribution Reach families through a dignified Farmers Market style model which allows individuals to select the foods that are best for their familys needs. Our military can access fresh nutritious fruits and vegetables without stigma or unnecessary bureaucracy. There is much more to be done and there are serious threats to our progress. We are asking congress to do several things which would help us to solve opposed cuts to the snap program which threaten millions of americans including many of the t veteran and activeduty military families that we serve. If you do america is 200 food banks strong but for one everyone male mail that is provided by our network thisor provides nine meals. They threatened to create a staggering increase in demand. It demands that we simply cannot meet. I encourage congress to improve needed budget items. For the children of military and veteran families. Her husband is a communication officer in the navy. She has four kids and her husband has been employed now for nearly eight months. Life as a Military Spouse was can have its challenges but she never expected that one of those challenges would be feeding her own children. Thousands of military families facing similar challenges. We see too many kids seen in food lines while their parents are serving on the front lines. It has been an honor to testify today. Including desiree and her family. Thank you. Arn thank you so much for your leadership and your work in san diego. Im glad this has provided the opportunity to highlight some of the great works that you are doing. I think you as nongovernmental leaders and experts for bringing your perspective today i went to think the va representatives for sticking around to hear them. Is anyone from usda still here . Let the record show let the record reflect that no one from the United States department of department of agriculture who administers the snap program took the time to stay and listen to Nongovernmental Organization efforts who see firsthand in the field of health Food Insecurity is impacting the veteran community. But the record reflect that. I would now like to turn to some questions mister hall i was really delighted to join you recently to to write your Distribution Center and i enjoyed learning about all of the good work that you are doing and how you do it. Our most veterans that you see that are referred to as feeding san diego do they get there from va or from elsewhere. And can you comment on any stigma or any reluctance to seek assistance among the food insecure veterans. The referral system is very informal and it often happens through peer networks. Transitioning veterans who had just left the service. They are still trying to find their footing in certain dash my civilian life. Senior veterans might come to us through the neighborhood base. Its only that we learn to serve them. And a lot of person to person referrals cause people to find their way through their food pantries. It consistently refers people to feeding san diego. No one who has worn the uniform of the country feels a pride in accessing food. It is really our duty and our obligation morally to support those who have served this country. To ensure that they dont need it. To have a minimal quality of life after they themselves had put themselves on the line for that country. That were able to create Safe Environments where we minimize that stigma and maximize their dignity but it is still always ever present challenge. You noted in your testimony that the current screening tool of a single question only identifies veterans. Can you explain the difference between very low and low Food Security and why its important to identify and address both. The difference is really a tick technical difference. This is the way that they define the two. The quantity of food intake. Were not substantially disruptive. In very low issues it describes that they were disrupted in food intake reduced because of the household. The truth is both of those categories are considered food insecure and the people have to alter their eating habits which ultimately result in poor nutrition and health outcomes. The single question thats been ask we think it captures those who have the very low Food Insecurity. We know that the rates for certain parts of the veteran population and veterans in general are much higher than that. Many people are falling through the cracks. By their own admission it has the recent proposed rule changes. It will no doubt include loss of snap benefits for struggling veterans. Im sure you can remember this from our first panel they dont know how many although they promised to get us that number. Although they are not here anymore to hear this. An organization that provides both direct food and also enrolls individuals in snap. What impact do you think the changes well have for your organization for feeding san diego. Do you have the capacity to make up for these cuts. The short answer is no we dont have that capacity. It is so complicated to get someone enrolled under the current eligibility. Instead doing if you were applications and helping more people through the entirety of the documentation process to get them to the finish line. We have actually scaled back our enrollment process to meet the con select bureaucracy. There what is experience in maine that you highlighted in your testimony teach about the ability for hunger relief organizations. To mitigate the impact with the snap policy changes. In 2015. The governor of maine chose not to take state waivers for the time limits on snap even though the state was eligible for those waivers. The state saw an increase in hunger that resulted thousands of mainers. They lost access to snap. It did not mean that they have a bettering of life circumstances. Just because they dropped that percentage. That they were inspired to find work. They need to get back to work for people that can. It doesnt magically make them work. That was the case that happened in maine. The story that was heard. There are thousands of other veterans. They lost access to snap and went country dash mike went hungry as a result of that. With that i would like to turn it over to the Ranking Member. Mister chairman, i understand that the usda should be here. They should have stayed. I understand i think they are barred by statute that they cant request a veteran status and i would like to discuss that with you. We have to give them that authority to do so. I understand it was taken out in the farm bill that authority. Lets get that done together going down the panel and i guess we will start there. Would you support an increase in the ability to track the veteran status. If not, why not. I think i would support that. I think the usda has ways to collect information that they are not using. The 1. 3 million veterans comes with Census Bureau data. There are waves dash mike ways to get this data and to get information. I think i would would be fine to see the veteran status. I do want to commend all of the groups for all of the good work. For helping our heroes i really appreciate it so much. The question for mister hall do you believe that it should be a temporary Assistance Program. I think for the best vast majority snap is temporary assistance. There are some individuals that were disabled. It may provide longer term support. Ideally people get back to work in it as a steppingstone but if they dont have jobs in their community. It is difficult. There are many barriers that people face to work. They talked about employment and Training Programs. I think it is really important that there were ten pilot programs for employment Training Programs. We should see the employments of those. The truth is that there arent job training plots. I think it is a shared goal. Lets invest in the employment and training program. Just taking food away from the food away from people is not the motivator. As i can have someone seek work. They just dont have jobs or training opportunities in their communities. Thank you mister hall. Do you believe that it should be a temporary Assistance Program . I agree with the previous response. For people that dont have a path to self sufficiency. It is an important part of meeting their needs. I also would say that we have a program where the data and san diego in san diego tracks the National Average. Its within that program for the year. It is lifting people out of poverty. When we look at the issues. It is typically not the same people each month. New people find themselves in crisis. And people find their way back into the workforce. I think the program is functioning well. Question for mister prentice. And miss hollywood anytime you want to chime in please dont hesitate. I want to give you an opportunity first, lets do that. Do you want to add to that in any way. The written statement you provide the story of tim a veteran a hero from maine why was the department of labor determination not enough for him to qualify i think there was a misunderstanding between state agencies and unfortunately we now know that there is a lot of confusion about disability status. Ms. Miller noted in her testimony that veterans any veteran there seems any benefit at all from the va is exempted from work requirements, we have the head of the Food Nutrition Service who do not properly convey that and understand those regulations, so i think it needs to be distributed and usda has a role to play but then state agency said administer snap in other faith safety net programs have to play a role as well and i think the va can play a part and better communicating that. I just want to emphasize that all of us want veterans to cut Food Security and their families, obviously, its just a thing where we need more hearings and we were told that they would like to have a panel to get their input on this so i really like your testimony, i yield back. Thank you mister, i, agree i think we should be hearing from them and in addition i appreciate the chance to work with the Ranking Member to get the data to know exactly how many veterans are being impacted by this and in fact there are reasons why that the u. S. Dear va cannot provide that information we need to understand that as well and we did at least get, on the administrator was here the commitment that she would work with view to try to get that added to us, so we will keep at it and i will take more hearings and i look forward to working with you together on that, but that id like to recognize mister for five minutes. Thank you chairman i would like to second that recommendation that we continue to look for ways to listen to the veterans and i appreciate the way the panel has brought out some personal stories of how veterans have been impacted by food and security and Economic Hardship and if there is a way to pull together a farm i would love to participate in that. I appreciate your comments here today, the work you do on behalf of veterans and those that are struggling across our country, we all know and we heard in the last panel that 36 million americans rely on food stamp benefits in this country every month and that is at a time when we consider the economy is doing well, 1. 3 million veterans access the program according to recent data and we have to make sure those beds continue to find ways to be connected even as this Administration Seeks to pull a rug out of those who are struggling, who rely on the snap program and i think it is outrageous they will for the strip cohen measures that target folks that are struggling and living day today. Mr. Hall you said a few things that i hear a lot from pantries, from food banks and Charities Across my district and understand that even at a time of significant Economic Growth for many in our country that there are those that are struggling and that the snap program doesnt necessarily meet the needs of those that are food and secure. So im wondering if you could continue to talk about what changes to the program mean for organizations like your said already or stretch to the max and why we need to make sure that we are doing all we can follow gaps. Thank you congressman it is a very difficult challenge to convey how this snap Program Works in the real world, there are the complexities of finding eligible populations and we know that only a population of eligible populations are participating in the program we know the documentation requirements that are required to successfully in a row before you receive a benefit card, in california this is a counter minister program and the counter and san diego has a full Time Employee and our food bank office to help us process snap applications but often it can take weeks and weeks to help someone who is and across crisis to get access to those benefits and we also see sir that the benefits off and run out the second or third week and we see an increase in demand for snap beneficiaries because the benefit amount is not and after secure the quantity of food they need to properly nourished their families so it is a situation where the Program Works well within the guidelines the congress has established, the congress has an established the program in a way thats just stop by and to solve hunger, it is absolutely at this moment essential critical supplemental aid for many veterans and many active duty military families. If i may just add, heavy their basic allowance for income, for purposes of disqualifying them from snap is an inexcusable front and i know many of the members of both sides of the aisle agree on this but i dont understand why we havent fixed yet come. Certainly no ones getting rich on the 45 dollar a day average that snap pays for Food Assistance in their anything since an overly generous benefit they should try moving on, i wonder if we could try move forward on the younger veterans, of a scam to stand iraq are experiencing food and security at higher rates, do you know why thats the case and how can we do outreach to those communities to make sure they are getting what they need . So a recent study by researchers at the university of minnesota found feet and security rates 27 for veterans returning from wars in iraq in afghanistan, these are astronomically high rates and very concerning, it was mentioned before about the economy thats booming and i just want to say the economy is not booming for everyone, that jobs arent available in every community, especially in Rural Communities and we also finding people who are transitioning from military service who are taking low paying jobs and experiencing underemployment, maybe its a parttime job without benefits, maybe their cobbler together a couple of parttime jobs and that Unemployment Rate was recently documented for returning veterans at a rate substantially higher than the civilian population, so i think thats part of the situation here and we need to do a better job for those transitioning to make sure they are aware of the benefits that can help them during that temporary time of need. Income and variability i think is a key component here because people go from getting a steady paycheck on active duty and then suddenly their threat to this crisis where they are piecemealing various jobs together in order to get a solid paycheck. Sure, i yield back. Thank you i would now like to recognize mr. Bergman. Thank you to all of you for being here because what we are talking about, especially the children of Service Members, if kids are hungry they can to learn, pure and simple, when you think about the things we do in schools because the kids dont have schools food at home to yield, or when they go home on friday afternoon and we send backpacks full of food on with them because of their home life situation puts them at risk, so i thank you for what youre doing. Ive got a hodgepodge of questions here based upon the testimony that each of you gave, so mr. Josh protas, he used the example of, tennessee in the system . He was not receiving health care and the system. Was that by choice . I am not sure that he qualified for medical care and va his disability was in a Service Related it was a job related disability so im not sure. The reason i asked questions like that is because data counts and when we use examples like that we want to make sure we are doing it and we are trying to make sure the committee are not sure what alley iran. We have to understand what our role here as congress is to do the right thing for veterans and their families. For the whole panel could each of you gave a rough number it doesnt have to be josh protas accurate of the veterans that you interact with who are inside or outside the tv system. 64 80 what do you think . I think it is maybe 60 40. The data we gather approximately 85 of our military family members. So the other 15 to a significant josh protas portion serves this was in the veteran community, we dont have a mechanism to track have many are actually gave, so unfortunate i dont have that data. This is not a question to be answered here, but i really appreciate a response so, active duty on, 32nd street, balboa hospital, north island. Corn auto okay what could doesnt have to be answered now unless you have a quick sociable ready thought of. These men and women are station there and there are active duty but theyre fulltime in most cases or in many cases they are either living on the base or theyre getting their base out in town and im guessing the ages relative to the cost of living in santiago is there anything that these people are full Time Employees for the u. S. Government so take it out the military and lets say we moved all the firefighters out there to be station temporarily in santiago to be jumpers in the event we had forced fighters okay, could they afford to live . Or is it just because of san diego its cost of living first of all let me compliment you on your talk about food waste and recapture in food if you well, are you familiar with Anthony Bourdains 2014 food waste. Yes sir. That impact me greatly when i first, saw what saddened me was that we have h2b ten grandkids and were all now greatgrandparents so were looking at three generations down. Whats added to me about that movie was a camp be shown in middle schools or any school for that matter because of the late morning in it. So if you could impact your fellow filmmakers not to make it a middle school presentable because the messaging we are talking about here is building resiliency in the military, we have families that are committed to the country, it is our responsibility to be committed to them but in building that resiliency within the family so the family can survive and thrive and i know im going a minute or so over, mister chairman if you dont need to continue. But the idea is that when they leave they served honorably their active duty and theyre out in the civilian workforce, can families in your particular case afford to live in san diego, if they got out, they served for eight years honorably they got out and the five or a six level or Something Like that and they dont have a pension because they didnt serve 20 years, what do you tell them . Its increasingly hard congressman. Its okay, its accepted, he just cant say that in the Armed Service committee. It is increasingly difficult to san diegos conflicts housing equation, our cost of living is now 40 higher than the National Average so it is unreasonable to expect that folks in the economic condition that you described are going to be able to easily located, find housing and support their families in san diego, unfortunately are active duty military families dont get to make those choices, they are stationed in san diego and when their families arrive years not sufficient to support, them so we have many traveling far too work. I know the roadways very well but san diego has one problem because of the cost of living, San Francisco probably has a similar problem, places like new york, boston, d. C. Has a similar problem to that as well, my district happens to be very rural and remote, we have a slightly different problem, usually the tyranny of distance and the availability, we need more good paying jobs but we are getting there because the economy is on fire in a positive way not in a wildfire sort of way. But the point is, if i see a hand coming up, when josh protas answers i yield back. Thank you for raising the issue, i agree that the basic allowance for housing is a barrier and we have tried in the past in the fireball context to have that basic allowance excluded as income but there has been an opportunity in the National Defense authorization act, we worked very closely with the National Military Family Association and congresswoman davis and ian for a bipartisan solution for a military family basic needs allowance. You had been allowance to help junior enlisted personnel to struggle to make it ends meet and there is something that congress can do, congressman livens has been a cosponsor of that provision, thank you very much, we would love to see that taking care of in the next meeting to make sure those military families are taken care of and as you mentioned you the children and military families are an x generation issue, so when families today or in the military are struggling or even veterans who have children those children are much more likely to go into service themselves and if they experience Food Insecurity as children there are more likely to experience obesity and dire related Health Conditions that may not make them healthy to serve, so its not only an issue for readiness now but recruitment down the road. Physical disabilities that dont fully recognized, part of that maybe because of economic barriers because they cant afford to get to a doctor to get the proper documentation. There are many hope so people need to jump through sometimes to get their disability properly certified, and i think that is a fair point, we should probably Work Together to address up when you are talking about a bona fide not disabled person you do agree that they should be a temporary program . It should be a temporary program for those who are not able to work and have opportunities available to them and as far as the proposed rule change, states its limiting state flexibilities, it wasnt just flexibilities about statewide waivers, there were other waivers they were currently exercised, so i dont know in kentucky if you feel the usda has a better stance about the Job Opportunities under state officials, i think the way the 1996 welfare reform law worked was there was a certain amount of flexibility for states to have those waivers knowing jobs in their communities. I think thats a fair point, but as i read the proposed rulemaking, moved to areas where rivers makes sense because the stakes can apply for those and rule kentucky where we do have difficult labor market conditions, one other point that i read in the regulation that hasnt received a lot of attention, the proposed rule continues the use of exemptions for adults having difficulty entering the workforce. You are aware of that, i mean that seems to address a lot of the concerns that you otherwise might have with the rule. There is a continuation of those exemptions, i believe in the proposed rule there is an elimination of the carryover of exemptions so that is a concern, it actually limits the number of exemptions and im not aware that every state is fully taking advantage of those exemptions to wave. So my concern, its limiting state flexibilities and limiting the options to help those on our struggling. I appreciate your work and your feedback on this and certainly will continue to monitor this because we obviously watch these create organizations to come to new to serve our veterans when there is a real need and we also want them to encourage work where they can. So thank you very, much able back. Thank you a now recognize mr. Audio dan meuser. Thank you mister chairman, we are the Veterans Affairs committee, we are focused on veterans not necessarily the entire population although we care greatly about that as well. No veteran should go hungry, i think that is understood and whatever procedures and perhaps legislation actions that need to be taken we need to simply do a better job and assuring that occurs. Now related to your organizations and i stated early that i am very familiar with various food bags, very often the committee has to step up and Capital Campaign fundraising events and things of that nature and other government participation. But we are to an extent talking about a broader issue here and that is a snap, thing is if you look back at the data on the average participant and the population of those that receive snap benefits over the years something doesnt add up. What i mean by that is this, go back to 1992, it was recession, so there were 25 Million People on snap as the economy improved as you would expect the number of people receiving Supplemental Nutritional Program reduced by quite a bit, went down to 17 million and 2000 and, then it went up, and oh seven and 26 million, and then we have the socalled great recession, so granted you would expect it to increase. However it increased from 20 million in 2000 any, those on the snap program to 45 million in 2000 or excuse me 47 million in 2013, 45 million in 2015, that is equivalent to the population of 22 states. The entire population of 22 states was on a snap program shot. We have a far better economy than we did five years ago, we have many jobs that are going on fulfilled, the farm bill last year it had the idea of some work requirements, i believe he was between the ages of 19 and 56, you are able bodied and not caring for children you needed to work and if you still work 30 hours i think it was, and he still work tenure and come met the demands then he would receive, receive the snap benefits, it didnt get past, so what we now have done over the last two years is not change the criteria to my understanding but and forced eligibility requirements. We now have 34 Million People verses years past, so in 2000 it was 17 million, in 2019 after reducing it doubled that, that is still 18 states 18 states all population on the snap program, so i guess you have to understand it is a reasonable question with hundreds and thousands of jobs being created, a very Strong Economy, 3. 5 , not my district its higher so i get it there still a lot of work to be done and warn people need to be included in the Strong Economy but overall its going very well and so pleasing reasonable work requirements on snap recipients and by the way if they cant get a job hump, they called for a 20 hours of volunteer service wouldve suffice and clearly would not have phrase the income levels so they sort of been recipients. I just find it hard to believe that we really dont want to take into consideration levels of accountability and have an organized approach so the money is there for those who need it so i make that comment and i asked for your comment in response. Deal i think it is alarming how Many Americans struggle with Food Insecurity and i think rather than the concern be directed and how many people participated snap there should be concerned about how many people struggle, 36 million americans who are currently served by snap, you say its 18 states, thats larger than the entire population of canada, whats wrong in the country that them Many Americans struggle to put food on the table and in terms of the increases and snap purchase spends one could argue what is wrong with the organization. I think you also have to recognize that snap helps the working poor and the vast majority who can work to work and so we have a low income households who are receiving extra help they need from snap people that are working two or three parttime jobs. My time is over. I do recognize that and it is a very high level and includes 18 states 34 million versus 20 years ago 17 million thats a bit of a disparity. Thank you and with no further questions we can bring this hearing into a close, i really want to thank witnesses and both the first and the second panel and id like to, have a brief close but all in thank my friend for a brief closing statement. Briefly, i really do appreciate holding this hearing and again we have some answers today but we need more answers obviously we need the data and tampa giving the usda the authorities to provide this data as well for veterans and begin no veteran should go hungry, all of us agree with that, we serve on this committee and its our, top priority and i know the chairmans to take care of our veterans and their families but i do believe and again we need to explore this even more and i really appreciate your testimony but i do believe long term we have to think long term and i think all of you agree that job training, so that our veterans can provide for their families in the future is really the key but short term wise sure, absolutely, no veterans should go hungry and we will continue to work on this issue, so i appreciate everyones input today and i yield back mister, chairman appreciate it. I think the Ranking Member for his work on this and look for it you continue to work with him on a bipartisan basis to address this pressing issue. Thank my colleagues on both sides, thoughtful questions and comments today you know its an interesting day they were in holding this hearing and im thinking of the men and women of extraordinary character who are serving this country and sacrificing for the National Security and the least we can do is provide our military family in veterans with Food Security its the very least we can do. So this committee asked earlier in this hearing how many will be impacted by the proposed changes to the snap program and i appreciate the usda agreed to work with the, toilet very least provide us with that data but that doesnt tell the whole story and doesnt go far enough in my opinion our veterans are more than statistics and furthermore there are those veterans who are suffering from Mental Illness visitor on diagnosed how is this decision going to impact them, definitely work worth that discussion. Hearing from veterans is critically important, i look forward to working with you all to make sure that happens in the weeks of months ahead. I am particularly concerned with how the usda will work with va to communicate better a concern that usda didnt see fit you have a representative here to hear from governmental experts in this area doesnt take much to pick up the phone and communicate and speak with one another it just takes a level of care and concern we set the highest expectations in part to serve our country and we need to set equally High Expectations to serve them in pots we should not let anyone go hungry we have to start by making sure they are and hungry it really isnt that hard and i think our witnesses for joining us today all members have five legislative days to revise an exchange their marks without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned pack