Transcripts For CSPAN3 Hearing On Migration At The U.S. Southern Border 20240713

Subcommittee on Border Security will come to order. Subcommittee is meeting to receive testimony in examining the human rights and legal implications of dhss remain in mexico policy. Without objection the chair is authorized to declare the subcommittee in recess at any point. Good morning. Today we will examine implications of a migrant protection protocol more commonly known as the remain in Mexico Program. We will hear the perspective of practitioners who witnessed the program on the ground. Since the program went into effect on january 18, 2019, the remain in mexico policy has forced 10,000 asylumseekers to wait in mexico while their claims are processed. This summary does not begin to touch on the devastating and deceptive impact on countless lives. Prior to this programs implication, asylumseekers will stay in the United States as it moves through the court. Policy based on the humane and common sense premise that should be given temporary safe havens, deciding whether or not they will remain in our country. Under remain in mexico, migrants who arrive at the southern border in former us official they are seeking asylum, are provided a court date and sent back into mexico until their initial hearing. It is mostly from central and south america having fled their homes to escape Gang Violence and government oppression. There almost always strangers to mexico with no friends or family to rely on as they wait on a decision in the United States. And they are active and hard to come by and local government officials have been known to engage in violence and exploitation. As a result is migrants, fleeing violence and oppression, in conditions that makes no difference, families fleeing mexico to this policy face kidnapping, Sexual Assault and extortion. In addition to provoking another humanitarian crisis, remain in mexico presents a serious threat to national security. The program has created a newly vulnerable population that completely exposed exploitation by drug cartels, allowing a organization to remain along the border and even expand their reach. The administration assured lawmakers and the public the program would be carefully applied making exceptions for Mexican Nationals, nonspanish speakers, pregnant women, the Lgbt Q Community and people with disabilities. However investigations and reporting have revealed individuals from every protected category are frequently turned away and left to fend for themselves in mexican cities. The Us State Department marked is too dangerous for travel. In august 2019 dhs notified congress it would build large temporary immigration hearing facilities to conduct remain in mexico, located in brownsville these temporary facilities are functioning as virtual Immigration Court rooms, with judges appearing via videoconference from brick and mortar court rooms across the country. These facilities have become a significant cause for alarm. Like a Public Information about the proceedings, limited access to translators and attorneys and complete disregard for migrant legal rights are some of the many problems emerging from this court system. Reports describe secretive assemblyline proceedings to conduct hundreds of hearings per day. Cvp, ice and dhs provided Little Information on the functioning of these courts, despite numerous inquiries, news outlets and congressional staff. Lack of available information on operations is exacerbated by severe restrictions on who can access the facility. With barbed wire fences and security managed by private companies they are closed to public news outlets and legal advocacy organizations. Despite the clear Legal Standard that all immigration proceedings are open to the public cvp has rejected request after request to access. These facilities dramatically worsen the nature of the program by removing any ability of migrants to access legal aid. Furthermore the prohibitions on oversight expose migrants to violations of Due Process Rights established asylumseekers in us law. We invited witnesses to shed light on this untenable situation and thank them for joining us today. Are asylum laws emerged after the second world war, and the nation faces a shameful truth, we failed to provide a safe haven. Since then we grant asylum to desperate communities fleeing danger all over the world and in doing so, saved an untold number of lives. The remain in mexico policy, reprehensible step backward and the continuation of this administrations abandonment of the nations longstanding and bipartisan tradition of protecting asylumseekers and refugees. We hope to build Public Awareness of this policy and improve our own understanding that we can find a way to stop needless harm inflicted on men, women and children seeking safety in our great country. The chair recognizes the subcommittee member mister higgins. Thank you, madam chair and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. While i look forward to hearing your testimony i also would like to voice that im disappointed now dhs officials actually responsible for negotiating and implementing the migrant protection protocol agreement with the government of mexico were invited to testify today by the majority. I am also concerned by the partisan preconception surrounding the hearing title. This past year we saw crisis at the border that was referred to by some as a fake emergency, virtually explode as 977,000 people attempted to illegally enter the United States through our southwest border. That is more than we encountered in 20172018 combined, larger than the population of the entire state of delaware. Historically most legal immigrants have been single adults from mexico looking for temporary work. In fiscal year 2000, Border Patrol was able to repatriate the majority of those detained within hours. Today most Illegal Immigrants are family units and unaccompanied minors from guatemala, honduras and el salvador. This fiscal year 19 customs and Border Protection encountered 473,600 every 2 families, an increase from fiscal year 13. This change is directly tied to criminal organizations exploiting loopholes in our Immigration Laws as propaganda to convince people to bring children to the border. Migrants who have given up life savings in many cases mortgaging homes and properties, handing over to children to smugglers because they are falsely told children are visas to get into this country. Even the Guatemalan Ministry of Foreign Affairs publicly confirmed this. Smugglers dont care about the wellbeing of migrants. They only care about turning a profit. In fiscal year 19 customs and Border Protection averaged 71 hospital visits per day for migrants that arrived at the border in deteriorating health. Border patrol conducted over 4900 rescues of immigrants left to die. Former dhs secretary mc illinin testified that fraudulent family cases that have been uncovered where the adult is not the parent of the child. 1000 of those resulted in prosecutions. The cartel sending children back on commercial airlines to their own country and return to the border with different adults. Agents call this practice recycling children. Ice identified 600 children who have gone through the list. One child told investigators he was forced to make the trip 8 times. There is a common misconception that most people illegally crossing the border are seeking asylum. However less than 20 of immigrants in customs and Border Patrol custody were found to have, quote, credible fear to return to their home country. In fiscal year 18 the number was 18 and for those saying everyone is turning themselves and that is not the case. According to customs and Border Protection last year, 150,000 migrants who illegally entered this country got away from authorities, even waiting capture and making their way to the interior. Trump administration forced to act alone and has taken several Enforcement Actions to mitigate the crisis as gridlock over Immigration Reform continues in congress. Dhs implemented migrant protection protocols to cut down on overcrowding of migrants and dhs custody. The number of migrants being released into Us Communities due to immigration backlog. As one point this year cvp had almost 20,000 people in custody. They are averaging less than 3500. Dhs has invested in temporary courtrooms near southwest border ports of entry, expediting immigration hearings and it ends the economic incentive of making a meritless asylum claim considering 20 of asylum claims get favorable final judgment with every asylum applicant released in the interior is provided with work authorization. The cooperate of justice statistics point to more than 89,000 orders of removal for fiscal year 19, for those who were not detained. Mvp mitigates the risk that those removed will disappear into the United States interior. This month dhs has taken the International Organization for migration visited several shelters operated by faithbased organizations and the government of mexico to house these individuals. These shelters had a persistent Law Enforcement presence, medical care and access to food and water. Todays hearing could have been an opportunity to bring in the department to ask about that visit and discuss implementation of the program with detailed. We have seemingly forgone Factfinding Mission for something that might resemble a show trial. Nevertheless i want to thank our witnesses for appearing before us today and look forward to your testimony. I yield back. The chair recognizes the chairman of the full committee, Mister Thompson for opening statement. The subcommittee will hear how the Trump Administration remains in mexico policy has distorted by immigration the system. Effectively closing the door to people seeking safety in this country. I share the chairwomans concerns about the legal and humanitarian implications of this misguided policy and thank you for calling this hearing. The department of Homeland Security officials argue remain in mexico have allowed u. S. Customs and Border Protection to regain operational control of our border with mexico. We actually know better. The policies raise serious legal questions and created a new humanitarian crisis along the southern border. It runs contrary to our American Values. Returning migrants with known physical, mental and Developmental Disabilities in mexico is unacceptable, sending pregnant women into mexico where there is no safe housing and basic medical care for them is unacceptable. Establishing secretive courts, dhs uses to prosecute asylumseekers who wish to return to mexico runs contrary to our values. Indeed, Immigration Court proceedings are generally open to the public for the sake of transparency. American Immigration Lawyers association, aclu and Amnesty International among others regularly observe these proceedings. However these organizations have been repeatedly denied access to the temporary courts in laredo. For those of you familiar with the Rio Grande Valley, you know about the work of Catholic Charities carried out to assist migrants in that region. And also been denied entry multiple times with no real explanation as to what . These observers are desperately needed. To get into the port courts, talk about Court Operations that run roughshod over basic Due Process Rights. Paperwork is filled out with wrong information or certain information that was purposely left blank for example. Every step that can be taken to limit the amount of time to meet with their client is taken. Cbp has even allegedly fabricated future hearing dates for migrants who were granted asylum in order to return them to mexico. The administration appears intent on cutting off access to the lawful asylum process even if their actions are legally questionable for vulnerable adults and children in danger. I look forward to hearing from our founders about firsthand observation and experience to remain in mexico policy. That will inform future Committee Oversight work. Border security as long been about partisan priorities of this committee, and blocking the asylum process for Vulnerable People and risking their lives by putting them in harms way, does not make a safer. Just makes us out less than remake ourselves out to be thank you for holding the hearing and the members of the committee for their participation. I yelled back. Thank you mister chairman the Ranking Member of the full committee is recognized for an opening statement. I wholeheartedly support the remain in mexico policy. I think its an essential policy and a weight inhumane. This pastor nearly 1 million Illegal Immigrants were encountered coming across our southwest border. It led to an unprecedented humanitarian crisis. Cbp the soldiers were overwhelmed and overrun leading to dangerous conditions both for migrants and Law Enforcement officers. Every day up to 50 of four patrol agents were taken off the line to process and care for immigrants. For months the administration requested emergency funds to deal with this crisis. For months my colleagues ignored the crisis as a fake emergency. Vital finally congress acted and provided critical emergency funding. While the funding helped it did nothing to address the root cause of the crisis and left loopholes in our asylum laws. Any legislation to close the loopholes the Trump Administration has been forced to act on its own to secure agreement with mexico honduras guatemala and el salvador to improve Security Cooperation across the region to reduce the exploitation of Immigration Law for after negotiation with mexico dhs office so implemented the Migrant Protection Protocol Program as a regional strategy to prevent abuse of asylum laws while protecting those with legitimate claims that it discourages false asylum claims and help to create wait time migrants under the program wait months compared two years for those currently in the interior to focus on reforming Immigration Laws instead of holding messaging hearings. Thank you, i yield back. I would like to seek unanimous consent the over 2018 assessment for the record. So ordered. Under Committee Rules Opening Statements may be submitted for the record without objection members not on the committee today we look for our colleagues and i welcome the Panel Witnesses the first pro bono counsel at the American Bar Association native of the Rio Grande Valley appointed at the Us State Department under the Obama Administration later serving as an immigration Trial Attorney she served as a visiting attorney with the texas civil rights project after the zero tolerance policy went into effect last summer a staff attorney for the civil rights project that advocates on behalf of immigrants and low income individuals as part of the family separation crisis last year of much of the recent efforts are assisting asylumseekers forcing to wait for the policy in mexico next the assistant professor for emergency medicine at the University Southern california asylum clinician and has worked with those in tijuana mexico over the last five years for asylum cases on both sides of the border including the individuals for weight in Mexico Program we also have the president of the American Federation local 181924 the affiliate representing more than 2500 employees in the dc region who began working with communities in 1975 in countries such as afghanistan and thailand serving as the Asylum Officer since 1992 but is a special representative for refugee asylum with use of the union and its members finally Mister Thomas holman former acting director of immigration and enforcement he began his career as a Police Officer in new york before joining the immigration naturals are shut in Service Serving as a Border Patrol agent and investigator and executive associate director. January 2017 President Trump named him the acting director of i. C. E. Where he served through to june 2018 without objection i now ask each witness to summarize his or her statement for five minutes. Thank you to members of the subcommittee. I am pro bono counsel for the American Bar Association commission on immigration employees to testify on behalf of the president. Thank you for the opera president of the aba burqa we are concerned of the migrant protection protocol also known as remain in mexico it discriminates against Spanish Speaking asylumseekers to deny full access to the justice system. We are more concerned about the personal safety of 55000 asylumseekers objected to this policy and return to dangerous conditions in mexico particularly the border near laredo and is a refugee camp encampment. Nongovernmental organizations the facility erected near the port of entry where the hearings take place and remains closed to the public. I am based in the Rio Grande Valley representing individuals. I will briefly identify the primary issues that led to the erosion of Legal Protections for asylumseekers in the migrant protection protocol first asylumseekers are being returned with documents of hundreds of incidents of kidnappings and violence. Aba is concerned dhs efforts to comply with its obligations to refrain from sending refugees to suffer persecution or torture has failed asylumseekers must affirmatively request an interview to be removed from the program placing the burden on the applicant when it is a legal obligation of the United States government the Legal Standard is so high only a small percentage can actually pass the interview to be allowed to pursue their claim in the United States. Second, a dhs run facility managed by cbp is a major obstacle of basic due process protection. To appear for the hearings, they must travel through dangerous border cities in the middle of the night and have to wait on the bridge before they are processed for their hearing. Immigration judges and interpreters and counsel appear via video teleconference while respondents appear, most without an attorney. The technology can be a reliable leading to displays that can further traumatize asylumseekers. When it does function, no interpretation is provided during the hearing with the exception of procedural matters and that is selected by the judge. The results in unfairness and a lack of due process. It also frustrated meaningful access to council. Asylum seekers have the right to counsel in immigration proceedings. Although there are many attorneyclient meeting rooms, these are greatly under utilized due to restricted access. Attorneys may enter only to appear at the hearing for an Asylum Seeker, the attorney already represents. Attorneys cannot represent this facility to screen potential clients. Once the relationship is created, they can only begin on the beginning of the hearing. Attorneys are often prohibited from meeting with their clients, simply to explain what transpired, where there was insufficient interpretation. This means that u. S. Lawyers must go to their clients in mexico, a dangerous proposition that many attorneys will not take. Its time i need to meet with my clients, i must take precautions to ensure my safety, i must courtney my visits with humanitarian groups or other colleagues. During one illegal visit, several convoys of heavily armed military officials rolled into the refugee encampment, several u. S. Attorneys and humanitarian aid workers evacuated the encampment, out of fear that the military would begin forcibly removing the refugees. My Legal Consultation was cut short, and i returned days later to consult with my clients again and had to consult along a narrow sidewalk, along the ports of entry during a heavy rainstorm, where my clients four year old son was crying because he was scared of the thunder. This is not meaningful access to council, and attorneys should not have to deal with such conditions to fulfill the professional responsibilities. For this reason we urge that the procedures be rescinded, and that fair treatment is put in place to ensure due process for all Asylum Seekers. Thank you for your time. I now recognize the witness to summarize her statement for five minutes. Thank you for inviting me here to testify about my experience working with individuals at the ages under the migrant policies. Im a staff attorney at the civil rights project, where i have volunteered and work with people seeking asylum in the United States. For the last five years, i have lived and worked along the texas mexico border and all of my work is on a pro bono basis. Since august i have spent the least 200 hours per providing proponent work. The horrors are almost endless, and i want to share with you the fear, the risks and the despair that we attorneys and our clients feel every day. No one should be in this program. Asylum seekers survive in flimsy tents and under tarps, they do not have access adequate food or medicine because they are the only providers of aid. More than half a report being kidnapped, exported or rape since being returned to matamoros. The stories break my, heart but no more than stories of children tortured and assaulted that play over in my mind. One mother was kidnapped less than one hour after the u. S. Government forcibly returned them to matamoros. They were tortured for eight days. In another case, two sisters aged seven and nine were sent by our government to mexico and then targeted by local Mexican National who sexually abused them. Mexican authorities detained this person for one night and let him go. He returned to the tense the next day. Neither we nor our partners have been successful and trying to have these removed from our program. Knowing that they promote torture sends a strong message. Anyone can target Asylum Seekers there with impunity, and no government will care. This program puts people in lifethreatening conditions, and we have seen dhs routinely ignore its own safeguards. Anyone who has fear of persecution or torture will be taken out of matamoros, yet no one has passed the interview. The threshold its retired, and i have seen this fear. Ive seen Asylum Seekers breakdown and stop. Their fears are genuine and confirmed by the u. S. Government on reports about what is happening in this region. Yet, at interviews, Asylum Seekers report that Asylum Seekers send them back without any notice about whats happening in the interview. Certain groups of particularly Vulnerable People should be categorically barred from being sent to the streets of one of the most dangerous areas. Some are people with physical disabilities that are apparent but just looking at the person. Weve seen cancer survivors who are still in the camp today. We represent a death nonverbal woman, not once was she given an interpreter for any interaction with federal officers, a plane violation of our civil rights. Because she is nonverbal, she could not even scream for help when her family was being followed by two men. At the end of her first week their, dhs admitted that it had aired and placing her in the program, but it took presenting her presenting her three times, a demand letter i t rq taken out. Whad have happened if we had not been there . And why wont we fix these violations that place Vulnerable People in harms way . We find people who should be protected under the agencys own policies. I listen with her as a lesbian woman told me that men had punter in the face and threatened to rape her to turn her straight. This womans story is not an anomaly for the lgbt people that we work with. I am horrifying that all i can say to Asylum Seekers is this. Hold on and stay safe. That statement feels so empty when i know how often people are kidnapped directly from their tents, abused and tortured. It haunts me when i walked back, that i only have these words to console my clients. They should be able to seek safety. That is their right by international treaty, the constitution, and the Core Principles of our humanity that are enshrined in our Immigration Laws. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize the witness to summarize his team in for five minutes. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I am an emergency physician in los angeles, california. I provide care to patients deported from the United States, including young people and veterans. I speak as a medical experts. We have carried out forensic investigations to cooperate abuse and play a key role in the asylum claims that the United States. But work has changed dramatically since the Trump Administration, and we are now facing increasing demand to carry out these demands across the border. At a medical expert i witnessed the program. Thousands of asylum figures arrive at the border, every of this year i was part of a asylum takers anti wanna. This form the basis of a report. We share the stories of migrants. Not surprisingly, the majority screened positive for ptsd, many screened positive for depression, experiencing significant fear. I want to share some of the signs and symptoms that we documented at the u. S. Border. All names have been change for security reasons. A 21yearold mother from honduras who was raped because her husband refused to join a gang told us how armed men entered her house, through her face down on the kitchen floor. One of the men held her down while the other man right there. She described her physical state afterwards. I had bruises on my shoulders, where they help me down, i had pain in my afternoon for three days and in my stomach throughout my pregnancy. It hurts to sit down. Medical experts not a sign of severe depression and hypervigilance, having to wait in mexico only compounded her fear. Antonio, an eight year old honduran boy was attacked by two paramilitary men with a machete. Since the attack, his parents told us that he cries often and must hold his mothers hand to be at ease. Since they arrived and tear wanna, he difficult in his bed and suffers from nightmares, where he yelled, hurry, theyre going to. Careless he reported symptoms of ptsd and anxiety disorder and a psychosomatic disorder. As most Asylum Seekers stuck in tijuana, he did not have access to therapy or adequate treatment for his condition. Since the completion of the investigations, ive completed i participated and forensic evaluations the real network of both mexican and u. S. Networks. Here a few snapshot of these cases, a pastor was assaulted and sean the left for opposing gangs trying to recruit youth. Game members and raped his wife, threatening that it would keep happening unless he left the area. After his wife was raped a second time. In addition to his physical scars, its been positive for depression and ptsd. Although he was granted asylum, he was immediately repealed. Martin is a young man who fled honduras under pressure to join a gang. He was diagnosed with absolute epilepsy as a boy, for which he was prescribed a combination of medications. After being forced to wait, he suffered several seizures. U. S. Supporter officials confiscated his medication every time he had crossed into the United States to attend hearings, despite medical letters attesting the importance of these medications. I continue to work with returnees, and provide medical care. Id try to make the patient feel safe so that we can comfortably to gust their fears and needs. For the thousands that wait, the standard of safety and basic health needs are impossible to meet. Since this Program Began in february, ive seen firsthand how it put the mental and physical health and severe the danger. This exposes and further violent and exploitation. Each day they are forced to wait, compounds the trauma that force them to seek safe haven. I urge congress to take direction by directing dhs to defund the program, or risk retrumps edition of this population, such as programs that urges officials to conduct a credible fear. I also urge congress to safeguard against policies or directives that reflect access and the United States. I now recognize mr. Knowles to summarize his statement. Thank you to the committee, i want to recognize that im here as the Union Representative for employees, and not my official capacity as in Asylum Officers. Im not authorized to respeak on the agency but i speak on behalf of our members. I have an extensive statement that was submitted for the record, and i would like to draw attention to the exhibits, one being our front of the court brief that we submitted in part of a lawsuit brought across dhs on its mpp policy. We documented the objection of our members to this policy, in that weve also submitted very Important News and documents regarding the much publicized officers, he was the subject of some news stories in both print and radio over the last weekend, and we have included the transcript of the radio broadcast and his own statement of resignation in which he outlines the legal objections, and we just want to say for the record that we stand behind mr. Stevens and other Asylum Officers that had raised their voices. As indicated in my bio, i am well acquainted with this field, having served as an Asylum Officer since 1992, the second year of the programs inception. Before that, i worked for many years abroad. Im well acquainted with crisis and well acquainted with conflict having worked in war zones ranging from vietnam to cambodia to afghanistan and refugee camps across western and southeast asia, as well as refugee camps here in the United States i mention that because many of my Asylum Office or colleagues are just like me, they bring extensive experience and were hired by the government to conduct some of the most difficult and complicated work of the immigration service, and do so proudly as patriotic citizens. Many of them are attorneys, many of them have advanced degrees, extensive experience in the human rights field, and we are very dismayed that statement by this administrations leadership are disparaging this loyal workforce and going so far as to question their integrity, their confidence and their loyalty. And i asked that this committee regardless of party or inclination on this matter, would do its utmost to uphold the good name and the loyalty of these brave men and women. My colleagues on the panel have eloquently testified to the effect of this program and im here to talk about the effect on the officers that have to carry out the work. Many of them have expressed their concerns internally, some publicly and all in good conscious none out of this loyalty. We have disparaging remarks indicating that they just dont agree with policies, or that they are politically motivated. We categorically deny those allegations. We are nonpartisan professional civil servants, taking an oath to uphold the constitution and our objection to the policy, which is only one of many egregious policies that are being implemented. Our objections are based in our oath and in our commitment to uphold the law. These policies are blatantly illegal, immoral, and, indeed are the basis for some egregious Human Rights Violations by our own country. We have been threatened with retaliation, investigations of liquors and whistleblowers. Weve had some of our members threatened with discipline and, most shockingly, we witnessed the precipitous removal of mr. John laugh friday, the chief of the Asylum Program who is one of the most civil servants. He was dismissed. I have no option, or because of his integrity or side workforce. So in closing i would like to ask this committee to have more hearings like this. We need more exposure of these situations. Mpp its only one of many serious abuses. We filed a brief on these transit barr, and as you read in the news, we are on the eve of yet another egregious abuse by our country, whereby Asylum Seekers will be transported to have asylum cases heard in guatemala, not by our own country, but by a country that produces many refugees itself. Our officers are dismayed, they remain committed to the job, but they asked me to implore this committee to please intervene to put a stop to this injustice. Thank you for time, and i look forward to answering your questions. Thank you mr. Knowles. I now recognize the witness to summarize his statement. Members of the committee, my control is a important step. When the mpp was implemented, the number of migrants was a unprecedented levels. It they wait outside of the United States. We are still facing a humanitarian crisis, but i applaud the dhs for using all appropriate resources to address the crisis. Over 70 of all illegal entrants in the United States fizzle here are family units and unaccompanied children. 85 of our Central American set arrive at the border claim fear, less than 20 get relieved by courts because they dont apply for asylum. The last numbers i saw the immigration report that are on line show almost half, 46 of those that claimed fear at the border dont file a case. Once i released in the United States, which is the goal, their way for the next doctor to roll around. Misguided court decisions, outdated laws, and the failure of congress to close loopholes has made it easier for illegal aliens to enter and remain in the u. S. The most recent 100,000 family units have been ordering removed after the process, less than 2 have left. In june of this year, five months ago, acting secretary mcaleenan said that 90 of all family units fail to show up in court after being released from the border. The mpp assures that those get a due process and will actually see a judge. I hear from many, including some here today that these migrants have the right to claim assignment, a right to see a judge, and i agree. But theres a flipside to that coin. After the process, if ordered removed, it needs to be followed and executed or theres no integrity in the process. Loopholes that congress failed to close, things cities, a pathway to citizenship for those here illegally all encourage more people to make that dangerous journey, which continue to bankroll criminal cartels. The same cartels are smuggling drugs into this country at alarming rates. Ice season if opiates in this country to kill every person in america twice. If you dont hear a lot about that because people are too busy calling the Border Patrol racists and nazis. Theres a crisis on the border, even though many said there were no caravans, we saw them, other cities a manufactured crisis and now we know it was not. The president has been right from day one on this and has done everything they can to try our border. As a matter of fact, and may seventh, the court of appeal stated an injunction, and has allowed it to continue. The significant gains made on this issue are because of our president , and the men and women. Again, it is upheld by the ninth circuit. Im here on another hearing today that will examine a policy implemented by the administration in attempts to secure our nation. However, ive seen no hearings regarding the three loopholes that are causing the crisis, such as abuse of the process, the florida settlement agreement. No hearing on sanctuary cities, or the numerous victims of the crimes that were released back into the streets instead of being turned over to ice. No hearings on the attacks against the men and women that served in the Border Patrol. No hearing about securing our border. The Border Patrol has said that 40 to 50 of their main powers no longer on the front line defending our power because there dealing with these families. One half of our Border Patrol is not on the line, the Border Patrol is more vulnerable to drug smelling and that operators it is cartel operatives, game members, in those they want to come to this country to do us harm. If you are someone in this world that wants to come to the United States and do us harm, our border is vulnerable. Its harder to buy a plane ticket to the west we get a visa there because after 9 11, we have all sorts of security checks and searches are conducted. If you want to get here and do us harm, were going to come here the same way, illegally through our southern border. Especially now because half of the border is unguarded. The president recognizes and has taken unprecedented actions to address this crisis, and i applaud him for doing that. Now its the time for this body to legislate and address this crisis and protect our nation. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Spirit thank you. I think all the witnesses for their testimony. I will remind each member that he or she will have five minutes to question the panel. I now recognize myself for questions. Mr. Knowles, ill start with you. There have been news reports, at least one, issued late last week that seemed to indicate that Asylum Officers were pressured by Border Patrol agents to deny certain migrants entry into the United States. To your knowledge, has this happened, and what have you members shared about the directives they have been asked to carry out in the remaining mexico policy . Am i and speaker . Sorry. I have no direct knowledge of what you just mentioned in the news report, although i have read the news report of Border Patrol agent directing Asylum Officers to make certain decisions. I did not get the last part of your question. What have you members shared with you about the directives they have been asked to carry out under the remain in mexico policy . They have shared first of all, i dont know a single Asylum Officer in the country, and i speak to them all over the country, who believes that this is a good policy. Most of them have been very vocal in talking to me about how it is illegal and places them feeling that they are complicit in a human rights abuses. They are sworn to carry out our laws, which guarantee due process for Asylum Seekers. Not every Asylum Seeker is guaranteed asylum, but they are guaranteed due process and humane treatment. Under mpp, the Asylum Officer is not even allowed to ask them about their asylum claims, they can only ask them about their fear of remaining in mexico, and that process is carried out at a very high standard, which is almost impossible for the applicant to meet. Moreover, weve had more Asylum Officers that, in applying very rigorously the flawed mpp rolls, tried to make positive decisions and they were overruled by their supervisors, and headquarter monitors saying that does not meet our standards. Theres no real legal explanation other than the front office has eyes on this. You mentioned that the people who felt threatened with retaliation and how whistleblowers have being treated, i have a limited time so i would like to follow up with you on those issues. You also say the mpp was one of many programs that should be revised or done away with. You also mentioned the asylum hearings being held in guatemala, and not even being supervised by american officers. What other programs were you talking about that he would include in that category . So, we have written for briefs i would urge your committee to look. At the force was approaching the travel ban and the suspension of the Refugee Program in 2017. The second was on mpp, the third was on very questionable changes that came from the white house to our training and policy guidance manuals that officers must use, which had the effect of substantially changing and altering the way that we do credible fear screening, in ways that we believe are unlawful. The fourth brief we filed a month ago, opposing the socalled interim rule, which imposes a bar on Asylum Seekers. An absolute bar to Asylum Seekers who passed through other countries and did not seek asylum there. Over the weekend, there was published in the federal record a new rule that, as i understand, will be implemented this week and our officers are to be trained today. How it will be adjudicated and asylums acres will be transported to guatemala to have their cases heard by guatemalans, not by the United States. Thanks for pointing that out. Dr. Schneberk, for the remaining time i have. The trump the trauma that these victims have endured, whether the long term consequences on their Mental Health and physical health, and what is the likelihood that they will recover . We how can we do a better job taking care of these folks is an ongoing study. But, to start with, we are trying to create safety as rule number one. The long term outcome, we can imagine the amount of Mental Health effects as a result of these types of experiences, but there isnt just Mental Health issues, but actually higher mortality as people die at younger ages because of adverse childhood events. This case a study that basically documented a lot of these advertised hood events. One of them being incarceration of a parent, and theres a lot of extrapolate a bull experiences, when you look at people that are subjected to these policies. Its pretty easy to say that its going to be a lot of denigrating health effects. I want to thank you for being here, and i recognize the number for questions. Thank you. Under migrant protection protocols, and international agreement, i want to clarify, Mexican Government provide migrants with humanitarian protections for the duration of their stay, but we are housing migrants, returned as one of mpp. Just to put a number on this to clarify, as of november the 57, 004, hundred and 30 Illegal Immigrants have been returned to mexico, house by Mexican Government and face bath shelters under this program. Im sure we all recall their recent history. So just to put this in perspective, a certain percentage are intercepted, processed and returned to mexico while their asylum to process moves forward, and weve done our best to accommodate court systems, to give them access to more rapid resolution. Is that generally a good description of this program . Yes, its accurate. Do you have personal knowledge of what is identified as faith based shelters that have been used . I know the government, along with a division of the United Nations is overseeing that process. Put the sexy funding from the United States flowing into mexico to pay for the expenses of these facilities. Thank you. This ms. Thorn vela, are you familiar with these shelters . Generally speaking. Yes, there are. The children of god that occupy the shutters, are the offense panic origin . Yes. They speak spanish . Yes. Your opening statement, and thank you for that statement, essentially accuses the United States of purposefully sending mpp Illegal Immigrants, which we are just trying to handle due process, its quite a situation down there. You are essentially accusing the United States of purposefully sending these immigrants into a horrendous situation, where based upon your testimony, you indicate that those Mexican Government officials and faith based organizations workers, primarily volunteers, that occupy the shelters and running them, that they dont care about these mpp folks. They have no compassion for them. Is that your position . That these folks down there have no compassion for the mpp . I understand that the government of mexico has said that they are providing aid, but from the ground, what we see every day, we dont see that aid just to clarify. You have the right to your opinion and, i will defend your right to have your opinion, but i just want to clarify, you seem to be indicating that the United States has set up some system where we are nor linked sending mpp immigrants into shelters that are run by folks that dont love them or care for them. In fact, are quite hateful towards them. From what ive seen, they are they individuals being sent back are, not being subjected shelters, they are living in the streets and a 2000 person refugee camp that does not have any shelter for them. The only eight, the only compassion that they are getting are from volunteers so that would be an indication, just in the interest of time, you are stating that the Mexican Government is not living up to its agreement under mpp . Ive not seen that promise fulfilled on the ground. One final question, and thank you for your candor, and this committee cares about these things but i ask you, regarding mpp Illegal Immigrants being knowingly returned to mexico, thats quite an accusation. They have any proof of that . We have partners on the ground that work with the young mother and her child that were tortured and released. You are referring to one case out of almost 58,000 . I personally only aware of that case, but i partner sat work not only in matamoros but throughout the borders where mpp is rolled out, and my partners can tell and dozens and dozens and dozens of stories a very similar conduct. Thank you for your testimony. My time has expired. Thank you mister higgins. We recognize the gentleman from mississippi, mr. Thompson. Thank you very much. Those of us that have been in the area where they are return to mexico policy has been implemented have questions about the health and safety ends sanitary conditions of the people who are there. I dont think those standards are the standards that we hold here as americans in this country, and i think our concern, more than anything else, is when you implement a policy that lowers your standard as a country, then that is changing the values of who we are as a country. So, when you put the burden on changing the policy in terms of returning people to mexico in a dangerous situation, that is not who we are as a country. I think the most important part for us is, why change a policy to put people at risk, and that is one of the reasons that we are here today. We have heard from two attorneys about a practitioner that some of those policies we put in place have in fact changed the lives of the people who are coming into this country seeking asylum. And as someone whose ancestors came to this country as slaves, who were absolutely mistreated, i think i have a sensitivity, and some others here, that we dont want our country to ever be part of anything to miss treat people. So the goal of why we are here today is to make sure that, as the American Government does its immigration policy, that we still see people as human beings, we have laws, we have values that we have to uphold. Thats why we are here, thats why complemented the chairwoman for having the courage to hold a hearing like this. This is a tough situation. Im a grandfather. The last thing i would want is for someone to miss treat my grandchildren, just because they dont look like them. I dont want that. I voted for the Affordable Care act, because i think in america, everybody ought to have an opportunity, if they are sick, to go to a doctor. Those are the American Values that we hold as americans. I think we have to be mindful of that. So, with that preface, miss ms. Pena, do you think our standards of jurisprudence are being upheld with this remain in mexico party . Thank you for that question representative thomas, in front of me, i have the immigration and nationality act. This is the law passed by congress, and i appreciate the question because i want to bring us back to the legal obligations and jurisprudence, which is being circumvented and violated through the mpp protocols. My job as pro bono council, and i austin train non Immigration Attorneys an immigration loss. I tell tax attorneys tell me that this is very complicated. The way i describe this law, particularly the specific statutory provisions which are being utilized to implement the remain in mexico policy is as such, and please bear with me representative. Imagine section 235, which is the expedited removal statue is a mountain. Two for the proceedings which are full proceedings is another mountain directly across from it. Theres a valley in between. To get out of summary removal proceedings and into full immigration proceedings there is a narrow bridge. Remain in mexico has done has put a small level of law, and created a wrecking ball with it, and it has demolished this narrow bridge that included Legal Protections, credible fear processes has been completely annihilated and mr. Knowles has testified to the challenges that these Asylum Officers are raising. The proceedings are expedited instead of several years and months. What good is a proceeding if its rendered virtually meaningless . Theres no lawyer, one attorney utilize university of texas data and analyzed that, if mpp did not exist, the number of respondents would be over 15,000 people. So there is no meaningful right for an attorney, theres also no meaningful proceeding, at least in the attack where least in the tech where you can see the judge on a view. You cant understand the judge. You cant effectively communicate with the judge because the interpreter is not simultaneously translating the hearing. There are no Legal Service providers. In san diego i observed in mpp hearing in the brickandmortar courts at san diego, at judge asked the pro se respondents, a father speaking on his behalf of his family, did you receive the notice from the department of Homeland Security which includes a list of Pro Bono Legal survivors . Providers comic season. The father said yes, i that. However, i called all the numbers and numb none of them will provide a service because we are in mexico. So there is effectively no place who can help these individuals. To translate the applications into english, to make sure they can file it with the court. And, of course, all the meanwhile they are trying to go through this proceeding, there subjected to horrendous conditions, dangerous conditions. So thank you for the question. I believe we are circumventing our International Obligations which are codified in u. S. Law. Thank you. Thank you. I yield back, madam chair. Thank you mr. Chairman. Now recognize the gentleman from alabama vista rogers. Thank you, madam chairman. Is it your position the entire country of mexico is dangerous . For Asylum Seekers . Yes. The anticountry . Entire country . I would say that asylumseekers are at a heightened risk by danger in mexico. Why is that . Throughout the journey in mexico as micros are facing these conditions uses returning them to in mpp. So if a migrant were to escape hunters, i think he gave an example of a gang member, gang members who raped a young lady if her husband didnt join a gang. Was that you who gave no. That example was given. Lets migrant was escaping ponderous for that reason and went to mexico city. Your view is it would be endangered in mexico city . I would say there at a heightened risk for being targeted, yes. In mexico city . I would say yes. Well, heres my concern. I understand that you describe the impairments on the northern border as being overcrowded and maybe not as healthy as you like them to be. But i but i find it impossible to believe that the entire country of mexico is dangerous for migrants. The country of mexico is offering a time to all these asylumseekers or escaping guatemala, honduras, venezuela, whatever. You know as well as i do the alone majority of the asylumseekers that reaches the United States are not approved. 87 are not approved. They are seeking economic advantage. I dont blame them but theyre not in danger. And certainly once they get out of honduras and are in mexico they are no longer in danger. We need to be recognizing that people are coming appear for Economic Opportunities and theyve been overwhelming our system. Mr. Knowles, you talked about the interview process. When was the last time you personally contacted an interview of an Asylum Seeker under the mpp program . It should be known that i am almost a fulltime Union Representative so im excuse for my regular duties. I have not personally conducted mpp interviews, although i am in daily contact with those who do. Its been about four years since i have adjudicated personally i asylum cases, but have adjudicated many in the almost 30 years that ive served. In this process though you have not, you have not carried at any interviews in recent years to know the abuses you describe in your statement . Im sorry, could you repeat that . You described abuses in the process during her statement a while ago. Yes. Those are just being related to youth through other individuals. You havent personally conducted those interviews . No, i have not personally. Thats my point. Mr. Homan, you discover mpp would help deter those who are seeking to exploit loopholes in our immigration system. Can you describe some of the loopholes you think are driving this train . Welcome there are three loopholes when i was still iced director i work with sector nilsen to try to work with congress. The three loopholes by the settlement agreement, and fy1415 we detain families, about 40 days to see a judge. 90 loss the cases. We put them on airplane at seville. The numbers at the border tragically decreased. Then the ninth circuit said you have told them 20 days days. Asking congress to look at that and let us detain families for like 45 days so they can see a judge. In the Family Residential center, not a jail. The second issue is the asylum process itself. Practically 90 pass the first because thresholds understand the statute, as you said when they get in front of the court 87 lose so theres two big the first interview the special needs to be raised so makes more sense with the judiciary threshold. The last thing would be trafficking predictions protection act because if your child for the turnout recognizes the member from mexico mysteries. Thank you madam chair. You testified about the real arm that they experienced while waiting to pursue their claims for asylum. Ive spoken with a local past year in the district i represent. And the church they provide shelter and have been targeted and they dont have the resources to protect these individuals from being targeted by the cartels. My question for you is whether you believe that mexico or mpp can create a disincentive to legally present themselves in the port of entry to pursue their legal claims for asylum and attempted to cross undetected to the United States. Thank you congresswoman. Yes, i do believe it creates an incentive for people not at to present themselves at the bridge to request asylum. I know many individuals who even before mpp was rolled out who were presented themselves to the print and were replaced during a line that was there prior to the mpp rollout. Those people waited and line and follow the law and wanted to present them at the bridge and one this mpp was rolled out they ended up being placed an mpp. Many individuals see this now that they want to follow the law and they want to do this right away and they end up getting placed right back. Thank you. I heard from cbp individuals that have the process in numerous crossings back and forth in the United States and that is also added a strange on our ports of entry. Do you believe that they have been costeffective and a more efficient processing. The ports of entry are very busy and they cross every day as and as really congested the points of entry and Asylum Seekers for people that are going very early for and atm hearing and has really caused a lot of delays. I appreciate to hear testimony and near asylum laws and how is that mission and moral impacted mexico or mpp . Id like to say historically our morale has been extremely high because weve drawn to the protection but its also the protection of our country and ive done a very good job and we received a very high marks from every administration with this one. And under this administration has plummeted not because of the political views and the way that weve been treated and the way that we have been required to carry out the questionable programs that we have not been consulted by with the union and the workforce on the ability on various methodologys and procedures which is told to carry it out and if you dont like it you can work somewhere else. Thank you. That has a big head on morale. Thank you, mr. Knowles i heard from local charities and attorneys that these hearings with the new rules and consequent training that can actually have a negative impact on the docket. What Asylum Officers that you represent in mexico or mpp policy that has had on other you are dockets. Im not sure i understand the question. My question is whether you think in back and forth as well as the continent changes and rules and other cases other than they heal are dockets. I wouldnt be able to answer because im just representing people that to the asylum interviews. I want to turn for that last quick moment. Only 13 of individuals receive the fierce screenings and positive determinations. Do you feel like there is meaningful access and this number would be different. Thank you for the question congresswoman. We have seen at least one a federal judge that as joined dhs from disallowing attorneys access to those interviews so just in the past week or so attorneys have access and weve seen how the numbers change and its very difficult i doesnt allow attorneys access and hes area goes. My time is expired. The chair recognizes for nine minutes miss lisbon. Thank you madam chair. My first question is for mr. Goldman we have talked about these loopholes in previous hearings as well. And you have eloquently talked about it just now. I have said before and i roller pete again that these loopholes actually incentivize people to travel thousands of miles in cartels and huge amounts of money and a lot of women are getting raped and have evidence of help children are being abused by the cartels. So, changing some of these loopholes and clearing them will help mitigate the entire problem. I think all of us care about people that are being abused. If somebody is being raped by cartels the children being abused of course none of us would want to ignore that and theres a difference on how we should mitigate the problem so mr. Homan i, have six bills that i have introduced and sponsored that we tried to clean up these loopholes to stop incentivizing people from coming here and one of them is to raved the standard for asylum because the initial standard is too low as evidenced by the numbers. 85 to 90 of them passed the initial phase but then a huge number and 86 or 87 when they finally go in front of a court and how would that affect this going back to mexico and the article and could we get rid of it you think . Certainly it will have an effect asylum bar that people couldnt come up in just claim and say to the three key lanes based on all of this upcoming. Because if the immigration gorgeous arc here that these people would not qualify and if they know they have their life savings where its chance to get approved because they know they have execution from the government thats a race from local beliefs and they will stop coming. Endorsement a law has a meaningful effect and it means something and a couple things dont add as i heard a lot of testimony today that people think the system is rigged and. And if there is a six put and by 14 and 15 under the Attention Center which about 87 to 90 than that remains the same and i dont see a correlation and as far as representation that making it different with the data and the approval rates then representation rate has not changed beyond 20 by attorney and thats fasttracking the data sheet which doesnt make a difference because they dont qualify with the representation with the facts in the case and this is the core database. Another question i have for you is it fair to say that right now the immigrants that are seeking asylum that are in mexico why are they able to say that im afraid to be in mexico and get a hearing on that or they say that they are fair screenings and established part of the program in october 15th and theyve completed over 7400 screenings to assess mexico and are in mexico under these programs and will go in front of somebody. When they came to the United States they do not return to mexico and establish clear danger and maybe in harms way and put the out the interview occurring that thats on the front end of that. I want to add one thing. I do think that there are some in america that qualify for asylum and now im up painting with Broad Strokes but based on the data and the findings across this country 87 there are certainly people who certainly do turn to homeland but we have 80 of denial fraud and you back up the system for the people in this world that are escaping further prosecution with the african nations around the world who really dont need our help. The system is up to 2000 and is troubling for the ones. I agree and i yield back. I want to take note that there are a lot of numbers for people that dont show up for your first meeting and there is doj information and 85 if you look at the system thats in syracuse anniversary that closely attracts the core proceedings and know that the doj is starting to limit access to the database and there was just a recent story in the Washington Post that did a lot of fact checks and we can disagree that is just for future discussion and republicans use when talking about this issue to this rate that is referred to consistently and that number was quoted by the former acting secretary mcaleenan and the Senate Hearing a few months ago that he ultimately had to walk back. He is referring to a Pilot Program being used and my point is that i think for us to have a real conversation about this democrats and republicans especially on this committee should be able to agree with the accurate number and im hoping the Ranking Member would agree that as a project we wouldnt have these back and forth numbers and it is just back and forth and or getting to any problem solving. Thank you for that and i thank myself for giving me two minutes to say that. But chair now recognizes for five minutes the gentleman from california. Thank you madam chair and i hope you dont take those two minutes off of my five and lee first of all thank the witnesses that are here today and i had a chance to visit some of the refugee camps and there are some very good faith based refugee camps providing services there with the doctor from columbia around the world when they close after 9 pm and outside the faith based refugee camp that was just not enough room for their services. Some services were not enough and the mayor was screaming because he is overwhelmed and does not have the resources for refugees and not from Central America but from all over the world. That is the challenge at the border and i also went and visited and talk to the person who was keeping a socalled list and not controlled by the u. S. But picture this. Refugee comes to the border and turned away and they say you have to sign up for numbers that can be heard. But where do i sign up . That person over there and i ask that person over there who would you work for . The u. S. Government. No you work for the mexicans . No. What do you work for . Just the person that set up and is giving out numbers and you give us your cell number and in a very questionable way of doing business and thats the way that is being taken care of. Its the chance of going to guadalajara mexico and driving down the street and i saw at home was person and i happen to pull over and i asked them some questions and say that i am from guatemala and i have no food and i point to you as the refugee crisis and thats throughout all of mexico. Im going to make it very quick but mr. When you talk about the work permits and these folks come to the u. S. That show up on all they want is a work permit. Theyre waiting for the next amnesty. I dont think weve seen this in a very long time and im thinking also to that in mississippi and the chairmans region or whoever regionals or picked up and i got a phone call from one of the representatives of that poultry plant and he called me and said we need to do something and he said most of the workers here and all the workers here are refugees and they are taking jobs from locals and are taking jobs from the children of the refugees and we need to have the jobs back. According to the chairman they essentially disrupted the whole economy of the area. So my point to you is that would you support something that is not only changing loopholes but the law but also supports some adjustment. To the law so that more folks can come to the u. S. And work legally . Because right now, we have this great market in this country of workers that are contributing to this economy yet theyre working in the great area because they cant get an adjustment status. Do your first question these family group started coming across and that was our first search and i was on the heels of a dhaka and it any families coming across now they see these children that are brought to the country and a few years in the business. You have to follow the law, you have to have a job and you have to essentially have a clean record. When you throw out Something Like that and you Start Talking about the Amnesty Program and the board of law. I came across the last two years and i dont know what happened would dock on the supreme court. Get to my question. Im back to 30 seconds. I do understand that there is a need for labor in this country but i think congress would say that i would try to link arms because theres a need for it. Economic factors ive been known for the last 200 years. Was there a martial plan to stabilize that region and with those folks . I think the secretary when i went with secretary kelly along with American Business and big banks there were great opportunities for them and our homeland and i support creating opportunities and our home country. Im out of time and thank you very much. The chair recognizes for five minutes the gentleman from mississippi. Thank you madam chairman. I first want to thank you for your 34 years of service and in reading your testimony you prepare to talk historically about what we are seeing today versus what weve seen in years past. Can you expand a little bit please sir. I think will receding today could have been prevented if congress wouldve closed loophole. We had a fly 14 and 15 and jay johnson and he let the whole family units to see a judge and it took about 45 days. Also 90 lost their cases numbers and home. The numbers went down and it worked. Theyve already proven in this administration and congress as a big system involved and are escaping fear and persecution and i dont see a problem with the nurture center and the pediatrician were on staff and access to lawyers and these are open air campus facilities. This isnt just about securing our border its about women being raped. Itll call women from being sexually assaulted and dying and are making millions of dollars and a lazy list of this country. You have several statistics that are written testimony and those are very important and those statistics that you give are supported by the 34 years . Absolutely. I did not say 85 on the hearing but about the case. The essential rate varies but the numbers i just received came off the executive office of the Immigration Court reds that website to the public and these are immigration hone databases and from the immigration genesis. Let me ask you about a couple of statistics and 70 of Illegal Immigrants have come from our family units. Is that accurate to the best of your knowledge . 72 have been removed. It says here and 90 of all families here to show up to Court Proceedings . I quoted the secretary mcaleenan when he made that number and it depends on when you look at it and what city look at it and it goes from 9 not showing up to 40 not showing up. But not number fluctuates so much for the 90 number i used by the secretary as the chairwoman mentioned was used six months ago. 85 to 90 dont qualify and if they do show up who dont qualify for it. Thats immigration core data and argo from 13 those are the countries that 87 to 85 are the case. Less than 2 i actually are on the country is that correct . Its closer to one present but i was generous to give to present. Its 1. 6 most recently and 1. 2 to 1. 6. So most do not leave and thats why people keep coming because families and Central America know that this is the case and theyre not going home. You have a case backlog. Theres 800,000 and are reporting 1 million . These figures are staggering . Absolutely. The backlog was near 600,000minute sounds right to me. On page three of your report calls ive been consistent but are still at high numbers beyond last year. This is what i want to highlight the, significant gains on this issue from our president and the cbp and ice and in this room. First of all, i want to apologize to you that they have failed the American People and then women of ice and i appreciate your hard work and theres congress i want to solve this problem. Every person on this panel and they should be commended further hard work. The chair now recognizes for five minutes the gentleman from new jersey mr. Green. Thank you madam chair. I have some questions that i want answered but i want to go to mr. Fela in reference to the questions and comments made made by the honorable Ranking Member. When we talk about georgia and the incident of torture that were privy to. I dont think that we can make light of just one and its one too many. And normally and theres been more than one. It opens the can of worms and then becoming a norm with respect to torture because i am having a family and i have triplets and a wife and just the prospect of thinking you are subjected to that and is horrific to. But can you elaborate anymore and that area an issue. Thank you congressman. It is very prolific throughout the country of mexico and at the northern border that cartels will often cannot extort will have money and practice that the u. S. Government has also detailed and in other years so mpp is providing people and very often people will be kidnapped and tortured on their way up and the u. S. Government will return them and for them to be objected to a second round of torture and is a common occurrence and every person that i know at the camp has told me that they live in fear of that happening. Thank you. Dr. Burke . How in your view does the remain in mexico were place with the families at risk of the type of harm that it is found it affecting immigrants . Whats the question again . How does the remaining policy replace individuals with families families and risk of the type of harm that the organization has identified regarding immigrants. Thank you for the question representative. So, the number of ways and one is the safety issue of the people that ive been through so much. And all right i didnt risk of Mental Health decline or Mental Health affects. Things they can take from an unsafe environment or from having to live with that fear as numerous both manifesting mentally as well as physically. In addition to that, putting them in a situation where they are not able to feed themselves, house themselves or are able to access things that make a person able to be healthy is especially difficult. It obviously has health effects. There is just a litany of things that we talk about. One of the main things is how they can be safe considering what theyve already gone through. I lost my place. All right, julie what type of market here will be most important for these people. Starting from a standpoint of putting them in a safe environment where you can address your needs from the standpoint of being able to speak about whats going on and whats happening to them. In the state therein and the ability to answer questions from the standpoint with depression and anxiety and starting with that baseline white Trauma Informed Care and with Mental Health evaluations as well as physical care and primary care and all the things that we hold dear into medicine and will be healthy. Thank you for your time and madam chair i yield back. Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas. Thank you madam chair. My microphone seems to be weak today but i trust you to hear me. I would like to know something that has happened as of late then as an organization to save the children its been around for 100 years its been involved in the business this organization has lost that since 2019. 13,000 children have been returned and 400 of them are infants. This is about children. So i have a few questions. The first is and id like you to raise your hand with this policy and a deal prove of family separation and if so raise your hand . And that no one approves and if you approve of Holding Children in cages raise or hand. Let the record reflect that no one approves. If you approved of the funding paid to the countries that migrants are fleeing raise your hand. And let the record reflect that no one approves. Theres something called wet foot dry foot and if you have what was called the wet foot dry foot policy as it related to cubans would you raise your hand please. All of the members let it reflect that it is required in as a person integrating from cuba and from one foot on dry land we could walk right on into florida usually and would be on a pathway to citizenship with one foot on dry land. I am not saying that we have to have a one foot policy. And that respects dinner and is not harmed children and this is what save the children is all about. And i would simply ask and make sure that i have your name correct sir mister home in. Sir . What type of policy do you envision that will help children who are fleeing harms way with their parents. And will have the opportunity to be on the safe and secure wholesome environment. First of all, if you would of said if i had zero tolerance i wouldve raise my hand and with my family and zero tolerance. See people seem to confuse those issues. I would address my quinces mud since he raised zero tolerance, im not sure what you mean by zero tolerance. Are using zero tolerance and no one in the United States. Youre referring to separations but zero tolerance and attorney general Jeff Sessions and that would separate our laws. When someone gets arrested for a crime it was just like if i got arrested and this is not about family separation. The thing about your argument is that these people commit crimes. If you do it legally its a crime. The United States 13 25 is a crime illegally. Its a civil. Its a violation of criminal code that the United States code 13 25 and the first defense. I dont differ with you on that point. But you have been separate the children. If someone is being prosecuted and you sent to the u. S. Marshals to a local jail, the child can go with you. There are people on every day across the country. Law. Youre asking our members. I said earlier that members are trained Asylum Officers with a Law Enforcement but we believe that our mandate that Asylum Seekers have due process here mainly during the claims and it is wellknown that the law and then the International Convention that an Asylum Seeker has the right to due process regardless of their manner of entry. And we do not believe that it is correct to separate families that prosecute individuals who are seeking asylum. They ought to have their asylum cases and if they prevail they should be allowed to remain and if they dont prevail than they are processes for their removal. But we dont support the separation of families under any circumstances. Anyone else id like to respond . Im sorry. We have three other people im so sorry. Thank you madam chair. The chair now recognizes ms. Jacksonlee. First of all i, want to thank you for holding this moot movie and i have your hold in the resolution that i have your words on this committee for a very long time and weve been hearing others that we do not quarrel with the men and women in this department and what i do say is that we are being impacted and the duty under the values of this nation and i stated early on that this is a country of immigrants and laws and no one did negates the idea of law and this question which poses them to a number of witnesses and that remain in mexico and the latest legally questionable step and anti immigrant agenda. I eat the muslim ban and, towards action i believe which is a policy. Rather than to tour Asylum Seekers with Human Rights Violations, id like to raise that question at my time is short. Id like to raise that question with the American Bar Association. Do leads policies create cruelty with other organizations . Thank you for the question congresswoman. When it comes to issues regarding course, that you raised attorneys have a very limited and restricted access to these kind of cords. Asylum seekers who are appearing in these courts do not have access to simultaneous interpretation so they quite often have no idea what is going on in these proceedings. They have long believed have provided access to in person interpreters for proceedings and especially when it pertains to not citizens and Video Conferencing should be done with their consent, thank you. Would you comment on the idea of Human Rights Violations . Yes congresswoman. From everything we see on the ground, we work in a 2000 person in cabman of the gateway bridge that is across im brownsville and theres not enough food, theres not enough Running Water and until very recently there is a real grant to wash their clothes and weve had and bp since august and three or four fold. Were not arguing against Immigration Laws and it has an atmosphere and is that correct . Yes congresswoman. There is no question that this particular policy has eroded everyones access to asylum and a safe place to seek asylum and thats why they await their court date. Im looking at a visual of scholar that is not even in places where theyve come from and that is tents and tarps have you all seen us on the other side of the border . Yes congresswoman. I cant see the photo but tents and tarps for 2000 and plus people is what we work with every day. I see a person walking with a face mask i know you cant see it and let me quickly go to the doctor by forcing Asylum Seekers with border cities with cartels that are highly active. The Trump Administration should objecting children to greater risk of aggravated assault and extortion which as a position also which impacts the quality of life of these individuals and doctor if you would. Doctor . Im sorry, doctor burke. Did you hear the question . Let me just go on. Dhs is providing Asylum Seekers with including wrong addresses and dates for hearings which complicates matters and peoples claims being rejected to snowfall to their own and doctor i was asking about the conditions that generate that i have the risk for kidnapping or assault but let me ask the question about the inaccurate paperwork and maybe you could respond to your question, thank you. Thank you congressman. That charging of a documents by the Homeland Security have several legal inefficiencies and insufficiencys including the address so individuals cannot get Proper Service because it address it is incorrect and the address shelters of have never been to and in addition they are incomplete and are no box is checked which require and established how the individual entered the United States and they have manufactured charges which have entered between ports of entry and his removable which is a legal notice but moreover reports are being issued on those notices and for example and in texas the court is where individuals are supposed to appear and that is incorrect. Thank you. I participated in a evaluation just last week and she is fair house and is free, rape and is afraid to leave that place she is renting. She leaves once a week to get groceries and is sitting there with her two kids. Can you imagine the kind of psychological harm thats causing to her because she knows through family that she has a message that perpetrators have sent somebody offer to her. I thank the chair and i thank you all. I want to put through the record that i sent the conditions that are and through the mpp on the other side of the border and the fear of death because call towels are sitting after people that are fleeing and evidence that their of being installed bother silent process. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from california miss paradigm. Thank you madam chair. Let me start by echoing the comments from my colleagues which the outrage this is happening over migrants in dangerous places. Miss vela you have visited some of these facilities and out of the six locations that remain in mexico policy two of them are across from an area of mexico at the state department has designated as a level for do not travel location. I understand you have been there. Can you describe the danger of violence and crime and those in the ports of entry in this area that are our risk of being subjected to. This cities were the last cities to get rolled out of mpp. The partner of ours that told us they were fortified and and the city and mexican migration and migration offices that there were removed to the city before they decided to have ten courts which was about an hour away. There are people still today that are terrified to make our journey south to the court hearings. They dont know what to do, theyve heard so many stories of people being kidnapped and possibly right out front of the door of a shelter that were stayed there to work through their case and have no way to get even an hour down the border. And they asked the government to stop sending people because it had no way to get people. Its really horrifying when you see the recount of whats happening in some instances where you have mexican officials and what was happening to them and is just outrageous and as long as it doesnt happen here and a and were just ignoring the harms with secretary mcaleenan come in and it was clear that the United States didnt bother with any type of risk with the harm that could be done to migrants. That they were being sent back to this level which is the equivalent of being set back to syria. These are outrageous and i know that you provide lawyers and are working to provide services to people. Can you tell us a little bit. I view represented migrants . Yes, thank you for the question congresswoman. I actually have scheduled for this friday. If i explain some of the challenges that i face in representing individuals and to mpp proceedings to find my client first of all. I participated in a volunteer asylum workshop. Where in the hot sun just across the port of entry and volunteer attorneys as traps to screen applicants in thats its a volunteer capacity there. To have access to the court i filed a motion to ask him, please allow my client to come into this multi Million Dollar court a couple days before the hearing so we can prepare in a safe environment. That judge denied our motion based on a lack of jurisdiction. Because dhs controls that facility. Although this will be my first to merit at local attorneys who have these cases, i imagine winning youre asylum case and having your clients and back to mexico after winning. They were causes with attorneys to go to extreme measures and to protect our clients even after winning their proceedings and having clients not being sent back to dangerous situations. It is horrendous. Thank you. Somebody who long ago when i practice law represented a women a child and asylum case a lot of workers and a lot of pressure and it prevents you from doing that very necessary preparation and weve seen these statistics from people that have and legal representation from much higher ability to these successful claims. , so it feels as though this is just another attempt to make sure that people dont have that access i dont have that ability so they can see because this administration is doing everything they can to and Legal Immigration and asylum is legal. Thank you all for your work and what you are doing and we will highlight the horrors of the policy and a program, thank you i yield back. The chair recognizes for five minutes the gentlewoman from texas miss escobar. Madam chairwoman, thank you so much for having the hearing and this is so critical. The American Public understands whats happening at the hands of the American Government. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to address our panel and ask questions. Thank you for coming to the border and coming to el paso. New and many of our distinguished colleagues have made the journey so that you can see for yourself what is happening through your own eyes in order to help change what is an important policy. To our panelists thank you so much for being here today. I cannot tell you how profoundly moving your testimony was earlier and i cant imagine anyone listening to your testimony or to what is happening at the hands of the American Government and believing that this policy should continue and this anti american harmful policy. I know full well about mpp cars i represent el paso texas. Our lawyers are advocates who have unfortunately had to bear witness of what is happening at the hands of the American Government and 20,000 vulnerable lies are through mpp and are a new eco system which is created by this policy on the other side of the courts of entry and the ecosystem where the American Government policy is sending vulnerable migrants into the hands of cartels so that cartels can extort money after theyve been kidnapped people and tell us about clients that had been raped multiple times and lawyers tell us about clients that disappear altogether and people who are legal asylum process. People that have been denied due process and have put in danger earlier. One of our colleagues expressed concern about the department of Homeland Security personnel not being here today. I have sat through hearings where you have dhs at the highest level essentially deny and Tell Congress that none of this is happening. It is important to hear from people who are here to speak the truth and tell us what is happening. Mr. Knowles is there any way that dhs at the highest levels and at the secretary level. Is there any way that they would not know that these atrocities are happening and the mexican cities where we are sending back migrants . I cant imagine how they could not know with our own agency which has a country of condition and condone trick country of origin which produce many reports over the conditions in mexico. I believe that there have been many investigations by the department of those conditions and certainly these things are well known. Miss pena and miss vela do, you think theres any way that the secretary of the department of Homeland Security or any leadership that are in the white house could be unaware of these atrocities . Thank you for the question. A number of organizations have come down to the border in texas and have escalated their request for their example and have been denied to the highest level. So as we understand it its at the highest levels we work with our clients to represent them to cbp a pistols and the bridge that are placed an mpp or have developed a condition that makes them extremely vulnerable and we have also raised that issue with the claw directors and people higher up and we believe there is very little chance. Thank you. Ive introduced a star 22 62 to protection act to defund and madam chair id like to ask for unanimous consent for three articles by the l. A. Times and a series of stories of npr detailing the heinous occurrences at the hands of the American Government. Just a final show of hands there is so much publicity around the atrocities of mpp. There is absolutely no way at the highest levels of dhs leadership could be unaware of whats happening. Since all of this as a blown white open have you seen any improvements to the lives of these above honorable migrants and the government reversing any of what its done . Show of hands. Let the record reflect no one has seen any improvements since the publicizing of mpp. Madam chairman, thank you so much and i yield back. Thank you miss escobar id like to recognize mister green for five minutes. Thank you madam chair. I promise but madam chair we have brought us to the heart of the problem. That is that this administration concludes that Asylum Seekers are criminals. And they are not criminals it is not a crime to seek asylum in the United States of america. When you treat them as criminals somehow you conclude that its okay to lock their children up in cages but they are not criminals they have a criminal mentality as it relates to the people who are coming to this country from south of the border and that is what we have to confront and thats part of this circumstance and a criminal mentality of people that are seeking a process called asylum and with that i yield back. That clarification is an accurate he was not claiming that claiming asylum and he was saying that crossing the border was not criminal and claiming assignment was not a nasty clarification that the gentleman made. I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and other questions and you asked unanimous consent into the record and statements of support from relevant organizations including the Immigration Lawyers and the American Council and Childrens Defense Fund and refugee international. They may have additional questions for the witnesses and we asked you respond expeditiously and writing and i believe the Ranking Member would like to say something. Thank you madam chair. I like to ask for unanimous consent for these statistics and lesko that was referenced and when you submitted for the record please. We have a brief followup question. They will both be admitted into the record as will the two page document that were holding and its the document that can the most recent information regarding appearances by people appearing at the border. Yes Ranking Member. Thank you madam chair. Miss vela youve been asked very is questions today. Youve sat there with dignity and asked the best year ability. The panelists that is join you today and thank you for being here today. We all struggle as a nation to deal with the challenge we faced at the southern border. Its good that our chairwoman was courageous and called a searing and that testimony was offered based upon various opinions and its our job to consider these opinions with respect for each other and for a common goal of finding some solution. Id like to point out that its been stated several times that the state department has indicated that its too dangerous to travel for some of those areas in mexico. There are some areas where these Illegal Immigrants are being sent in the process and their asylum claim but let me just state that its indicated that the alternative is to send them into the interior of the United States and we clarify how it happens there and allows folks that will stay here. Let me share with america and the following cities that have nothing in common. St. Louis, detroit, memphis, milwaukee, baltimore, oakland, kansas city. All of these cities have something in common. The citizens there are more likely to be subject to Violent Crime then the citizens of mexico city. Crime status for mexico city are about the same as washington d. C. Its intellectually on asylum to indicate to the American People that just generally speaking we are placing these immigrants in some greater harms way by having them await their process in mexico. Madam chair i, thank you so much for holding this hearing and we received excellent testimony today and i yield back. Mister Ranking Member thank you so much for that when we assure everyone here that you will continue to have hearings of whats going on at the border because and that are bearing witness and the Democratic Values and transparency and accountability i liked all the witnesses and the amount of members that showed up today how important this issue is so i want to thank you all for participating and without objection the record should be kept open for ten days and there is no further business the committee stands adjourned