Transcripts For CSPAN3 FBI Director Wray Outgoing Homeland Security Secretary McAleenan Others... 20240713

Were going to ask the members of the press to please part the center aisle so members can have access to the witnesses. The committees meeting today to receive testimony on global terrorism threats to the homeland part two. Good morning, the committee, as i indicated, is meeting to hear from four expert witnesses on where we are as of this date with threats to the homeland. This committee was created in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of september 11th, 2001. Since the establishment of the department of Homeland Security, the committee has focused on insuring the department is fulfilling its mission to secure the homeland. I take this responsibility seriously, as has every chairman of this committee. This is why its been the committees practice to hold a hearing to assess Global Threats to the homeland and evaluate the federal governments efforts to confront them. Congress and the American People deserve to hear about the threats we face directly from the official charge with our nations security. Today im deeply concerned about the state of the department of Homeland Security. Its been 203 days since the department has had a confirmed secretary and the acting secretary recently announced hes leaving after just six months on the job. His replacement will be the fifth person to lead dhs in fewer than three years. Even though acting secretary mcaleenan is leaving tomorrow, the president has yet to announce who his replacement will be. What is the delay . Overnight, we learned that the white house may be trying to find a legal loophole to install the president s pick, who is not the departments order of succession as acting secretary. This is completely unacceptable and such a decision would raise serious constitutional questions. Also unacceptable is the fact that the transportation security administrations administrator has been dual heading for the last six months. The tsa administrator is not a part time job. They each require someones full tension. Beyond the secretary, 11 components and offices within dhs are operating with acting leaders. In all but two cases, the president has yet to nominate anyone to fill these vacancies. This is an unprecedented situation with real consequences for the department and the more than 240,000 men and women of dhs working to secure the homeland. Indeed, at no time during my tenure on this committee have i been more concerned about dhs ability to carry out the mission. The chaos is not limited to the department. The president is also on his sixth National Security advisor. Fifth secretary of defense. Third fbi director and third director of national intelligence, including acting officials. He has no longer he also has no longer a Homeland Security advisor or a white house cyber coordinator. The president needs to fill positions critical to u. S. National security. At the same time, terrorism threats to the homeland are both international and domestic are unrelenting. Just over two weeks ago, President Trump pulled american troops out of syria. This abrupt exit put an end to u. S. Counterterrorism missions with the kurds and complicated pentagons raid on isis leader al baghdadi. Fortunately, their mission was successful, thanks to the bravery and skill of our military members and intelligence professionals and we honor them for their huh rowm service to our country. While alt bag baghdadi is dead, detainees pose a renewed threat to the u. S. And conditions on the ground are ripe for isis to reconstitute. We abandoned our kurdish allies, prompting them to make a deal with the russian backed syrian government. I want to hear from our witness today how these developments affect the global threat picture and what the implications are for the homeland. Here at home, domestic terrorism is on the rise. One year ago, 11 members of the tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh were gunned down by a perpetrator motivated by antisemitism and white supremacy. This year a synagogue in california and shoppers at a walmart in el paso, texas, were killed by a white supremacists. These attacks are increasingly linked to groups and individuals abroad and many are exploiting social media to proliferate violent extremist content and incite others around the world. The National Counterterrorism center has begun to look at domestic terrorism and last month dhs released its first strategic framework for countering terrorism and targeted violence. I hope we can hear about their efforts today. For too long this issue was not given the attention it deserved, and much more remains to be done. Finally id like to note that the 2020 elections are just a year away. Despite the alarm about foreign interference, the president has refused to accept the conclusion that russia interfered in the 2016 elections. His refusal to insure the integrity of our elections by leaning on this issue toronto white house sends the wrong message. It always calls into question whether the many agencies working to defend our elections are getting the resources they need. I hope we can speak to that issue as well. As i said, this committee must take its responsibility to oversee the department of Homeland Security seriously. The security of the homeland is at stake. And our constituents expect no less. I look forward to the witnesses important testimony. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member of the full committee, the gentleman from alabama, mr. Rogers for an opening statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you all the witnesses. I want to point out acting secretary mcaleenan. Im pleased youd came today. Our committee deserves to hear from you as the head of the department of Homeland Security. As tomorrow is your last day at the department, i want to thank you for your service. Your patriotism cannot be questioned. I wish you godspeed in your next adventures. Director wray, acting director trar travers, thank you all for taking the time. I know it takes time to prepare for these and its inconvenient but it helps us do our jobs better. Mr. Chairman, todays hearing is important. The threats to our homeland is real. Every day terrorists plot to destroy our way of life. Its important we understand those threats. What we do in this committee on a bipartisan way is vital. The killing of Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi was important. Isis is responsible for the public execution of two u. S. Journalists. They were doing their jobs and isis killed them both. American aid worker kaila mueller was kidnapped, tortured and killed by isis. At least seven terrorist attacks have been carried out in isis name in the west. Who knows how many more attacks baghdadi was planning. His death does not end the isis threat to our homeland. Isis is not the only threat that we face. I look forward to hearing more about how we are countering the threat from isis, al qaeda and others who seek to harm us. Mr. Chairman, i do need to address the subpoena issue before i yield back. Im very frustrated at how the events of last week unfolded. Im frustrated youd were put in the position where you thought issuing subpoenas was necessary. If someone gives you their word, they should keep it. I would like the same respect. We have a Committee Rule that needs to be followed. You gave me your word in a colloquy we would Work Together on subpoenas. None of that happened this time around. Just two months ago, we jointly issued a subpoena for jim watkins. Ive been willing to engage with you in the subpoena process. Ive been with you every step of the way to defend this committees mission and oversight responsibilities. The rules exist to protect the minority in this body. Rule 12 in our agreement that requires us to speak beforehand, we set in these same chairs for a markup last week about 24 hours before you issued the subpoenas. You didnt say a word. I asked to discuss this issue on monday this week and i havent heard back from you since. You have accused me of providing the acting secretary with quote, faulty information, in a letter this weekend. I find that implication outrageous. A quick conversation with me, an email or phone call would have prevented this. To be clear, i probably would have voted tfor the subpoenas. You would have seen that if you kept your promise to our members and marked them up. Our relationship to each other is the only way anything gets done around here. We have to set the tone. Going forward, i hope that we can conduct the committees business openly and in accordance with the rules. I yield back. Thank you, very much. Let me just say, that we have information share with you and your staff. We provided notification of what we were about to do. And that is absolutely false. Well, okay. I dont want to get into the i do. Well, thats fine. Youre not chairman, so you dont have to. Bide your time. Apart from that well go forward. I am comfortable with the fact that we followed the rules of the committee. You did not follow the rules of the committee and ive got them here. This is black letter rules. This is not arbitrary, this is not mr. Ranking member, im going to try to be differential to you. If you want to speak, ask to be recognized and ill recognize you. But im not going to allow you just to blurt out. So apart from that, i responded to it accordingly, and the rules have changed by republicans in this committee. At one point, the chair and Ranking Member jointly had to agree on issuing subpoenas. The rules have changed. And i dont have to get your approval to sign a subpoena. And thats the rules we operate on. We can provide information to you, but at the end of the day, its the chairs call. May i be recognized . Youre recognized. Would you put the rules up on the board for people to see . Id like to offer this for the record. Let me read to you what we say in the rules. A, authorization. The power to authorize and issue subpoenas is delegated to the chairman of the full committee as provided under rule 2 h 3 ai of rule 11. Of the rules of the house of representatives. The chairman shall notify the Ranking Member prior to issuing any subpoena under such authority. To the extent practicable the chairman shall consult the Ranking Member in 24 hours in advance of a subpoena being issued excluding saturdays, sundays, and holidays. Thats the rules you put into place. I was sitting in a chair with you the day before. I would have said lets do it. You never said a word to me. And this is your rule. 24 hours notice was not followed. I am not making this stuff up. Weve had a great relationship. I yield back. Other members of the committee are reminded that under Committee Rules, Opening Statements may be submitted for the record. However, my panel of witnesses, our first witness is acting secretary of Homeland Security Kevin Mcaleenan who has served in that role since april 2019. Next we have director of the federal bureau of investigation, christopher wray. Director wray has served in his role since 2017. Next we have acting director of National Counterterrorism center russell travers, who has served in the role since august of 2019. Last, we have David Galloway who has served as the undersecretary for intelligence and analysis at the department of Homeland Security since 2017. Without onbjection, the witnesses full statement will be inserted into the record. I ask each witness to summarize his or her statement for five minutes, beginning with acting secretary mcaleenan. Good morning, chairman thompson, members of the committee. I appear before you today to testify about the department of Homeland Securitys Vital Mission and our efforts to confront todays emerging world wide threats. The men and women of dhs are dedicated professional whose work to safeguard the American People. They represent some of the best of the country and i appreciate the continued support this committee shows for them and the work they do each day. The department of Homeland Security was created in the wake of the 9 11 attacks and was charged with coordinating and unifying the nations Homeland Security enterprise. Our mission is multidimensional, built on the five pillars of prevention, mitigation, response and recovery. Id like to focus on five significant trends we see in the landscape and the efforts dhs is executing. Specifically the threats we face from foreign terrorist organizes, domestic terrorism and targeted violence, Transnational Criminal Organizations, and from malicious cyberactivities and actors. Dhs was formed first and foremost to counter the threat of International Terrorism, and has achieved successes in mitigating that. Weve utilized a range of tools, particularly our programs and capabilities to identify and detect foreign terrorist actors and prevent them from entering the country. In cooperation with the fbi, the intelligence communities and other we prevent thousands of potential terrorists entering the u. S. Each year. We have enhanced our security greatly, the threat of Foreign Terrorist Organizations remains a significant concern. Whether through direction or inspiration, these groups seek to spur disaffected individuals to violence, tencouraging them o attack the unity of our diverse society. Isis, hezbollah represent consistent threats to the United States. We must work to insure aggressively across government and with our International Partners were doing everything we can to pressure and disrupt these organizations in efforts to target the United States homeland. One of the most significant emerging threats has been domestic actors adoption of terrorist techniques to inspire and direct individuals often via the internet to carry out violence. Of specific concern has been an increase in racially and ethnically motivated violence, particularly the threat posted by violent white supremacists. Last month, dhs introduced a framework for countering terrorism, which explains how well adapt to the tools and expertise we have used to protect the country from foreign organizations to address the challenges of today. The trend of manes driven by personal grievances to commit acts of violence creates a unique challenge. This framework recognizes the changing Threat Landscape and calls for whole of Community Efforts to enhance prevention and resilience, identify individuals who are on a pathway to violence. Importantly, the framework calls out the need to focus on and protect our most vulnerable populations, particularly our youth. Its forward looking and understanding of technologys role as a factor that can exacerbate threats. The next major threat category is presented by powerful and violent Transnational Criminal Organizations. These tcos have diversified their multichannel businesses, profiting from drug and human smuggling in the movement of weapons and money. They organize and incentivize mass migration and engage in human trafficking. Their criminal activity, including competition for territory created security risks at our border and throughout the hemisphere. Dhs works with government partners in the private sector to enhance our nations posture against cyber activities. In august 2019, dhs cyber and Infrastructure Security Agency published its content to defend today, secure tomorrow. In this document, it laid out its directors operational priorities, calling out the threat from china and highlighting our need to focus on supply chain security, 5g technology, Election Security, federal Cyber Security and industrial control systems. As acknowledged within the document, china presents the most longterm threat to the u. S. The foreign intelligence threat faced by dhs in todays Global Environment has quickly evolved into one of the most significant threats to our country. The leading state intelligence threats to the u. S. Interest will likely continue to be china, russia, iran and north korea based on their capabilities and intent. In conclusion, every day the 240,000 men and women of the department of Homeland Security work to insure the safety and security of all americans and are dedicated to building a brighter and more secure nation. They deserve our support and our thanks. I continue to appreciate their efforts on behalf of the American People. Its been an honor to serve as their acting security and commissioner of cdp. The symmetry in this hearing, my first hearing was in front of Sheila Jackson lee, and chairman thompson and Ranking Member king attended. Its fitting i close this stage of my government control in front of this committee again. I want to thank you, chairman, thompson, Ranking Member rogers, distinguished members of the committee. The support you and your staff have shown the department of Homeland Security and our men and women and providing the tools we need. I look forward to your questions. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize director wray to summarize his statement for five minutes. Good morning, chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers. Members of the committee. Im honored to be here today representing the roughly 37,000 men and women of the fbi. Its now been just over two years since i became fbi director, in which time ive visited all 56 of our field offices. Meeting with state and local partners from every state represented on this committee. Ive met with every headquarters division, scores of our Law Enforcement partners, business and Community Leaders and crime victims and their families. And those interactions have given me a much better sense of what were up against. Quite frankly, the threats out there arent the same from a decade ago. Theyre evolving in scale, impact, complexity and agility. And the fbi is moving forward to meet those threats head on. In fact, over just the past six or seven months, the fbi has thwarted or disrupted terrorism related plots, both domestic terrorism and International Terrorism. Our joint Terrorism Task forces have made arrests just since april. And thats not including all of our hate crime arrests and all the other kinds of important work that we do. So preventing terrorist attacks continues to be the fbis top priority. Even as we recognize our countrys important recent achievements with the death of al baghdadi and our fight against isis in the middle east. We know that we have to stay vigilant against the threat both overseas and here at home. Were also laser focused on preventing attacks by those already in the United States, people inspired by Foreign Terrorists. What we call the home grown violent extremists. Often lone actors, these are folks inspired by foreign idealogies but selfradicalized online. Were keenly focused in todays world on the threat of domestic terrorism. Attacks carried out by people inspired by a variety of violent extremist idealogies. Im talking about everything from anarchist groups to racially motivated extremist groups. Terrorism today moves at the speed of social media. To confront these threats were working closely with our federal and state local Law Enforcement officers reaching out to the communities we serve. These cases present unique challenges because in this country we dont investigate a person just because of his or her beliefs. And these people like the homegrown violent extremists can also move very quickly with little warning from espousing radical views to attack. And i can tell you after having personally walked through the crime scene at the tree of life synagogue and having visited the teams from the Mass Shootings both in el paso and in dayton, that this threat is never far from our minds and is a focus across the fbi. The major threats well focus on today are too numerous to mention in my opening, but i look forward to answering questions about a number of them as i respond to your questions. In particular on the cyber front, we see a wider than ever range of actors, attack methods, and targets. Including things like sophisticated Ransomware Attacks on municipalities. We meet with the victims with state and local authorities and particularly with our federal partners, especially dhs and other agencies. On the counterintelligence front, were especially focused on china. Theyre using an expanding set of nontraditional methods blending both lawful and unlawful techniques. On the one hand to come after the youve got corporate Acquisitions Funding of research, but woven into those you have cyber intrusions, stealing trade secrets, and a whole variety of supply chain threats. Even as i sit here today testifying before the committee, the fbi has over 1,000 investigations involving attempted theft of u. S. Based technology that lead back to china. Involving nearly all 56 of our field offices and almost every industry and sector. This is not just a big city problem. Its the heartland. The men and women of the fbi dedicate themselves every day to keeping the American People safe. I want to thank this committee for your support for our fbi workforce. I can tell you it makes all the difference in the world to our hardworking agents, analysts and professional staff, both all over this country, but also around the world. So thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize actor director travers to summarize his statement for five minutes. Chairman thompson, Ranking Member rogers, members of the committee its a privilege to be here to represent the men and women of the National Counterterrorism center. In the years since 9 11, the u. S. Counterterrorism community and its many partners have achieved significant successes against terrorist groups around the globe. Perhaps most importantly Coalition Operations against isis in iraq and syria deprived the group of its socalled caliphate. Ct efforts across africa, middle east and south asia continue to diminish the ranks of isis. Interagency efforts at home to enhance our defenses here have resulted in continued progress in safeguarding the homeland from terrorist attacks. There is indeed a lot of good news. But we need to be cautious because challenges remain. Im knowing to focus on just three. First, military operations have bought us time and space as we address the terrorist global threat. With the diverse, defuse and expanding nature of that threat remains a significant concern. After 9 11, we were primarily focused on the threat emanating from the afghan border. Now we have a homegrown violent extremist threat. We have 20 isis networks ranging from hundreds to thousands of individuals. We have al qaeda and its affiliates and branches. We have foreign fighters that flock to iraq and syria from over 100 countries. We have iran and its proxies and there is a growing terrorist threat from racially and ethnically motivated extremists around the globe. By any calculation there are far more radicalized individuals now than there were at the time of 9 11. This highlights the important of prevention. Some aspects of the threat can be dealt with through kinetic operations, the residents of the idealogy will not be dealt with by military operations alone. The world has a lot of work to do to deal with radicalization and underlying causes. The Second Chance stems from the terrorists ability to exploit technology and the attributes of globalizati globalization. We have seen the use of encrypted communications for operational planning and the use of social media to superintend propaganda and transfer knowledge between and amongst individuals and networks. Weve seen the use of drones and uass for swarm attacks and even assassination attempts. High quality fraudulent travel documents will increasingly undermine the screening system and threaten Border Security. Well see greater use of crypto currencies to fund operations. And the potential use of chemical and biological weapons has moved to something we consider to be much more likely. In many cases, terrorists exploitation of technology has outpaced the legal and policy framework needed to deal with the threat. Looking out five years, were particularly concerned with the growing adverse impact encryption will have on our counterterrorism efforts. The third challenge id highlight relates to a concern about complacency. Our whole of government approach to counterterrorism over the past 18 years has kept the country pretty safe. In our view, the near term potential, large scale externally directed attacks against the homeland has temporarily deadliclined. As noted earlier, the threat itself continues to metastasize and will require close attention in the years ahead. In a crowded National Security environment, its completely understandable that terrorism may no longer be viewed as the number one threat to the country. That begs a host of questions. What does the national equation look like as the country confronts a complex interNational Security environment . How do we optimize our resources in the best interest of the country . If were going to reduce efforts against terrorism, how do we do so in a manner that doesnt inadvertently reverse the gains of the past 18 years . These are complicated questions that will require discussion. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your testimony. I now recognize undersecretary gallw galloway. Its my only to testify on behalf of the department of Homeland Security to address todays emerging worldwide terrorist threats. Let me touch on my role. I currently serve as the chief Intelligence Officer and undersecretary at the department of Homeland Security. Im responsible for insuring the secretary, our 22 dhs components and offices and our Homeland Security partners have access to intelligence they need to keep the country safe. My focus is to insure the unique tactical intelligence from the dhs intelligence enterprise to share with operators and Decision Makers across all levels of government so they can identify and mitigate threats to the homeland. My office as well as the rest of the u. S. Intelligence community and our Law Enforcement partners generate intelligence that is unbiassed based on sound analytanaly judgments. Ill speak about the major shifts in the Threat Landscape. Id like to speak about the threats we face from foreign organizations. Underpinning these threats is adversarial engagement from nation states such as china, russia and iran. Regarding domestic terrorism, i want to address one of the most pervasive threats we face in the homeland, the threat from targeted violence and mass attacks. Whether its considered domestic terrorism or a hate crime, theres no moral ambiguity. The extremists are motivated by perceived grievances, often targeting, race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, gender and gender identity. Were focussed on identifying the behaviors that are indicative of an individual at risk of carrying out mass attacks so we can appropriately identify and mitigate any violent act before it occurs. My past experience as 24 years as a Police Officer and special agent and part of the First Responder metropolitan Police Department through the columbine attack has made me uniquely postured to be a witness today. Its shaped my approach to dealing with this violence. We continue to make substantial progress in our ability to detect the threats these groups pose. Isis, al qaeda, and returning foreign fighters represent longterm security threats. Cyberthreats remain a significant risk for the United States, threatening our National Security, Economic Prosperity and safety. Nation states and cyber criminals are increasing the frequency and sophistication of their attacks and other malicious cyber activity. Foreign influence threat has evolved into one of our most significant threats. U. S. Adversaries, including russia, china, iran and north korea and other strategic competitors will use influence operations to try to weaken democratic institutions, undermine u. S. Alliances, threaten our economic security, and shape our policy outcome. Regarding transnational organized crime. Criminal organizations have a destabilizing effect on the western hemisphere by corrupting governments, government officials, eroding institutions and perpetuating violence. Human smuggling and trafficking, narcotics extortion and kidnapping. They have little regard for human life. They continually adjust operations and supply chain to avoid detection and intradiction by Law Enforcement. And like legitimate businesses are quick to take advantage of cheaper transportation and better distribution methods. In many ways theyre operating like sophisticated intelligence operations. I want to thank you for the opportunity and also on behalf of the men and women of the department of Homeland Security, be honored to testify before you today. Thank you. I thank all the witnesses for their testimony. I remind each member that he or she will have five minutes to question the panel. I now recognize myself for questions. Mr. Secretary, during your tenure here, were you provided all the resources you needed to do your job . I think the department of Homeland Security has received strong support from congress in a bipartisan fashion. Across multiple budget years and multiple administrations. Weve used that funding and resources to increase our security effectively across programs from the i. T. Side, the intelligence side, operational side, and both our Border Security and our International Partnerships. Are there more resources we could use . Certainly. There always are. I dont think youll ever meet a Law Enforcement leader who say they have all the resources they need. Weve been able to communicate our requirements and received broad bipartisan support over my career. If you had what resources you dont have, that could give us a greater grasp on the terrorist threat to the homeland . On the counterterrorism side, one of the things weve requested in this budget cycle and actually called you, mr. Chairman, and other leaders on the appropriatation side back in may to look at a resubmission of our grant capability so we could focus on supporting efforts against domestic terrorism and targeted violence and readiness around the country so we could identify opportunities to move people off a pathway to violence and address their concerns and their disaffection early in that process. Thats 17. 5 million we requested is in the senate marked for appropriations. Weve asked for investment at the dhs. Were looking for the office to help coordinate and galvanize efforts across multiple components to support prevention and the whole of Community Effort were looking for. Thats one specific investment, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. One of the issues that in light of what you have talked about, is this whole issue of domestic terrorism. Director wray, can you share with the committee the challenges you have with your agency in addressing domestic terrorism . Theres some definitional issues from what i understand continue to be a challenge . Mr. Chairman, i think what youre referring to is there is not currently a domestic terrorism offense as such. In the say way there is for the International Terrorism side a Material Support to a Foreign Terrorist Organization. Having said that, we tackle the domestic terrorism threat through a wide variety of tools, explosive charges, gun charges, state and local charges, hate crimes charges. We use a lot of different tools to go after it and our folks have been resourceful with our partners in making sure we dont let anybody get away with it. We had i think 107 domestic terrorism arrests in fiscal year 2019 which is about the same number as our International Terrorism arrests. So of your issues youre addressing here, have you put a percentage on the cases you investigate, how many of them are strictly addressing domestic terrorism . Do you see it on the rise . We see well, we see a couple things. We see domestic terrorism as a persistent evolving threat. Weve had typically had about a thousand and it fluctuates from time to time. But it tends to be about 1,000, sometimes closer to 900, sometimes a little over on the domestic terrorism side. The number hasnt dramatically changed, but its troublingly consistent. Certainly the most lethality in terms of terrorist attacks over recent years here in the homeland has been on the domestic terrorism side. Were trying to tackle one of the things weve started doing recently is i created a domestic terrorism and hate crimes fusion cell, which brings together both our efforts targeting a lot of the same conduct through our counterterrorism resources, you know, our join Terrorism Task forces but also on the hate crime side, were able to pick that up there. Were starting to have less of a lefthand, righthand issue and i think that will make us more effective as we go forward. The chair recognizes the Ranking Member for five minutes. Id like to ask any of the panel that want to take a swing at this. Look at the deaths of al baghda baghdadi, what does that mean for the rest of the Senior Leadership . Do you see anybody in particular emerging to fill that void of the number one and number two isis leaders . How big of a Leadership Organization is below that tier of leadership . Theres no question that the losses over the weekend were significant to isis. At the same time, its a deep bench. He was one of the individuals that could have ascended to the top, abdullah is another one. We need to remember that the United States and the Coalition Overall has had tremendous success in eliminating leadership over the years of al qaeda and isis. Yet, the bench tends to rise to the top. My guess is well will if history is any judge over the next couple of days and a couple of weeks, well see a new leader or announced. There will be eulogies, even from al qaeda. We will see calls for attacks against western interests. Typically that doesnt amount to a great deal in the near term. Then well see requests for the branches and the affiliates to swear allegiance to the new leader. Thats what well be watching carefully to see how this individual consolidates control moving forward. During this period of time before that happens, how effective do you think isis will be at carrying out attacks . Or do you think theyll be in a pause period . I dont think it will have much impact. If there were significant attacks that were in the planni planning, that planning will continue. It wont have that much effect. Can you give the committee about how large a number of fighters comprise isis and how many of those are in prisons . As i mentioned, there are 20 odd isis branches and affiliates around the globe. They may be as few as hundreds, they maybe have as many of thousands. We believe that within syria and iraq there are at least 14,000 isis fighters. Thats an important number. Because five, six years ago when isis was at its low point they were down under a thousand. This tells us the insurgency has a lot of options. Within the prisons, the sdf had roughly 10,000 isis prisoners in 15, 20 prisons in syria. Roughly 2,000 of those were foreign fighters. There was some faulty reporting recently about isis fighters being released from prisons. And are escaped. Can you tell us whats true and whats not true . We know of no instance of where isis fighters were released from prisons. There have been some prison breaks. Not so much the last few days. I think we were something over 100 individuals broke out of prisons. Theres a lot of fog of war as individuals are being relocated. We think the sdf has been professional about this, trying to relocate prisoners and theyre trying to keep control of the prisons. Its going to be very interesting to watch over the coming weeks with the turkish russian accord and the syrian move into east of the river. How those prisoners how those prisons are being managed Going Forward. Outside of al qaeda and isis, what affiliate organizations are you most concerned about . Im sorry . Outside of isis and al qaeda, what affiliate organizations are you most concerned about . Well, the entire shia side of the house. Certainly iranian backed shia militia groups and hezbollah and so forth. As i mentioned, as my colleagues have mentioned, the homeland violent extremist individual threat is amongst the greatest we worry about. Ill use my closing seconds to welcome our newest member to the committee. Represent bishop, who won election next week to represent north carolinas ninth district. I know hes going to be a fine addition to the committee membership. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from texas, ms. Jackson lee for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman to you and the Ranking Member this is a crucial hearing. I appreciate the time given, although the time is short. Mr. Secretary, let me thank you very much for both your dedication and commitment to this nation as your fellow witnesses are likewise public servants. We thank them for their service. Let me start with you and my time is short. So i note in your testimony on page four of your testimony you stated perhaps one of the most significant evolutions over the past few years has been domestic actors adoption of techniques to inspire individuals via the internet to carry out acts of terrorism. Can you explain that and what Homeland Security is doing there briefly . Very briefly, if you go back a few years to look at what al qaedas affiliates were doing in yemen, for instance, really using the internet to appeal to disaffected youth and to try to radicalize from afar. That was the homegrown violent extremists phenomenal. Were seeing that with other idealogy and the ability to communicate with like minded individuals what is Homeland Security doing about that . The strategic framework outlines the whole of communities efforts to build awareness, to identify opportunities to see risks being presented by individuals on a pathway to violence. In terms of monitoring that internet space, especially on the dark web, thats one of the serious challenges we face. We want to work with private sector entities to insure they have good policies, to monitor content and to address thank you. If its inciting thank you were trying to look at individuals who are on pathway to violence. Thank you. This chart represents i think a dangerous phenomenon. The red indicates these are the red incates these are vacant, acting persons. Do you find it difficult to secure the nation when you have most of the positions held by temporary persons . Is that something that should be corrected . Its very good to have confirmed leadership. It helps with action with congress. It ensures that alignment with administration policy. Thank you. What i can tell you though is that our career leaders, Senior Executives throughout the organization are tremendous and men and women. I need to go on to my other question. Its been reported that there are close to 3,000 children that were separated from their parents. By the way, i appreciate your extensionive answer. I just have a very short period of time. My question is, on the burden it put on your men and women at the border, do you view that as a failed policy and did not hold the deterrence that it should have held . Children as young as 9 months separated from their family . Can you give me a quick answer . Congresswoman, i have testified several times on this, spoken publicly and media and press on this issue. It was an effort to prosecute people violating the law. We lost the public trust with that effort and the president was right to end it. Let me director wray, i take that that it was a failed policy. I tlahank you for your service. I was at a meeting last evening dealing with buylogic threats of small box or ebola being used by terrorists. Can you tell me what work the fbi is doing on this very difficult act of terrorism that might impact the American People, number one . Number two, a question dealing with two individuals that are unidentified being sought by police for this are assault of an unarmed black man in char lots vil. Im wondersing if youre aware of them and whether the fbi is trying to find these individuals in charlottesville. Would you please answer those questions . Taking your second question first. Im not at least sitting here right now familiar with the specifics of that matter but im happy to take the information from you. I would appreciate it. Ill give it to you. Thank you. On the first question related to the bi logical weapons, as i think mr. Trafbers mentioned, that is something were concerned about. Were trying to go about it through a number of different lens working with our partners. One where were working with the rest of the Intelligence Community to try to gain more information about the capabilities, plans and intentions of different adversaries in terms of their designs on different kinds of bi logical weapons. Second were working more and more closely with what you might consider nontraditional partners, labs, people in the medical endtry, research and development, people to better understand what the capabilities are. A lot of that work happens through our weapons of Mass Destruction Division which is really singlemindedly focused on this kind of stuff. And then of course we have our joint Terrorism Task forces which i have investigated a number of attacks, and theyre always on the lookout for information there where we see any indication that a particular subject is looking into that kind of weapon. We do think its something thats going to become increasingly hard to chase just because the internet, again, makes the, if you will, the recipes for these things more and more widely available to less and less sophisticated actors. Gentle ladys time has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana. Im sorry. Okay. Yeah. How could you forget . I was well, recognize the gentleman from new york for five minutes, mr. King. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First of all, secretary mcclane, thank you for your service. Its been truly outstanding in some very difficult times. I really admire and appreciate that. And also my direct dealings with you, ive always found you to be totally straightforward and i want to again express my appreciation. Director wray, let me say i have a very close relationship with the police, it wasnt always that way with the new york. Its functioning very well right now and the level of cooperation has never been better. I want to thank you for that. On some of the specific questions, mr. Travers you mentioned about the fog of war, were not certain exactly how many isis prisoners may have esskaipd. Once that clears and hopefully soon, what are our plans to get a reading on those, the chances of them going to europe and coming to the United States . Any attempt to make them for them to be caught in any coordinated effort against the United States . Again, how soon do you think well know how many escapes . Are we working with our European Partners to track them going back into europe . So we spent a great deal of time trying to work with the sdf over the past couple of years on bio metrically enrolling individuals so that we can, as acting secretary mcal to ensure they cant come to the United States. Im confident on the foreign fighter issue, that one has been worked very hard because over the last couple of years there was a concern about trying to get European Countries to repaterate. We havent had a lot of success. We got fate litic that we would be seeing these individuals long before the turkish incursion, and as a result the ability to catalog who they are and get them into the appropriate data bases is i think a good thing. The europeans may have somewhat greater difficulty. They dont screen in the same way we do. The eu processes, while they have improved dramatically since paris and brussels, theyre trying to deal with 28 countries. The schengen system is more porous than ours. For the europeans i think they have challenges. I would tie those hundred or whatever number it is escapees into that foreign fighter category, how does that shape that, change the picture . Well, our expectation is that the vast majority of the individuals that escaped more likely than not were syrian and iraqi and will be looking to stay in the region. They will be incorporated into the isis insurgency in all likely hood. We may see them as suicide bombers and so forth. I think it is fair to say that where we had the sdf locking down these prisons for a couple of years, the expectation is that we will probably see more releases just three, four weeks ago we had abu backer baghdadi incate in a radio that he wanted to attack both prisons and idp camps to get people out. I assume that we will see some of that. Those prison are vulnerabilities. Director wray, mak aleenan, do you have any zent the fbi has had our folks over there doing these bioe metric enrollments. We are concerned that some of these folks may exploit Visa Waiver Program ultimately and may not be an meet term threat to us but over time could find their way in in ways we have to be vigilant about. I would also say that we know that isis has started to take advantage of using women in operational planning and trying to recruit youth more and more, some of them in these displacement camps that were in syria. Its hard to gauge and i know our European Partners are very worried about this. Part of a plan by isis to launch a multigenerational conflict and thats going to present all kinds of challenges for us and our partners. I agree with both director wray and mr. Travers. Were working with this with the eu and europe both providing our capabilities and reach back. To identify threats, i agree with travers on the work in the region, weve been helping identify people on the battlefield so we can prevent them from accessing the homeland in the future. Also on a bilateral biasis, wee extended, automated, global, ways to present weve given capability to partners and extensively in the western hemisphere. If individuals try to travel towards us we do have layers that will help identify and stop that movement. Thank you all. Again thank you for your service. Yield back. Gentlemans time has expired. Chair recognized gentleman from california. Thank you. I warrant to thank our guests, speakers being here today. American life is an american life, whether its in america or outside the u. S. Soldier, an american soldier is an american. An american frontliner, whether its a firefighter or Police Officer, is an american. So we talk a lot about Foreign Terrorists and domestic terrorists. And my concern is, are we separating these into silos and treating them independently. Im hearing stories we may have domestic terrorists going to be ukraine, getting trained on isis tactics, coming back to the u. S. To prepare to do god knows what. Are we having enough coordination between domestic terrorist operations and International Terrorist operations in terms of your defensive cape abilities to make sure were not missing anything . Mr. Wray . I think youre on to a trend that were watching very carefully. I know weve had conversations with nttc quite a bit on this topic. We are starting to see racially motivated violent extremists connecting with likeminded individuals overseas, online certainly. In some instances we have seen some folks travel overseas to train. Where . It varies, different parts of eastern europe. Okay. We have seen some connections between u. S. Based neonazis and overseas an logs, and certainly probably a more prev lant phenomenon is racially motivated violent extremists here who are inspired by what they see overseas. The christchurch attack in new zealand, weve had folks here arrested who were motivated by what they saw happening here. Theyre not working together but theyre just fueled by each other. So just to be clear on the silos part that you made, on the fbi end, our task forces which bring together 50 different federal agencies and 500 state and local agencies, we tackled domestic terrorism and International Terrorism both through the joint task forces. That ensures less risk of that silo issue that youre talking about. So if i call my local Orange County shoif and ask him if his Fusion Center is coordinating with yours, the answer from him would be yes. The answer would also be yes if i asked him, is there a twoway line of communication . Or is there only information on a needtoknow basis that he gets interest your agency . I dont want to speak for the Orange County sheriff, but i will tell you as i said in my opening, ive traveled out to california, to every field office, met with partners including Orange County, lapd, et cetera, and the feed back i get is the chemistry and information flow between the fbi and state and local partners is better than its ever been. A few days ago i brought together all the major city chiefs with rsccs in charge of all of ar field offices in one room for a whole afternoon, classified briefings working together. Theres a lot going on o not that front. Its very delicate when it comes to talking about americans, our privacy, and when you start to begin to talk about domestic versus international, you may run into legal constraints in terms of what you do without a warrant when it comes to american citizens. Do you have any thoughts of how to address that issue . You talked about somebody overseas. Then youre talking about an american citizen. How do you gather the proper intelligence to address those issues . Do you have the Legal Framework there to protect privacy and at the same time to let you do your job . And is there anything we can do to help you do your job better . Well, were very sensitive to the privacy concerns, especially when it comes to u. S. Persons. We say all the time every day throughout the fbi, our job is to protect the American People and uphold the u. S. Constitution. I will say in terms of things that were concerned about, and youve heard it referenced by every member, the encryption issue is a real problem. I think a lot of people dont fully understand the impact that its already having on our joint efforts and our more importantly what its going to be, another year or two years from now, more and more terrorists, domestic and international, are resorting to putting their communications on encrypted messaging platforms and we dont have access to those then we have a problem. A couple of more seconds. I wanted to emphasize to all of you here, in my district and others across this country, the el paso shooting brought us to a new level of consciousness in terms of our safety locally. And so what im trying to say is domestic terrorism on my list is number one now. Thank you very much. Gentleman yields back. Recognize gentleman from louisiana for five minutes, mr. Higgins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary mcal ooenan, thank you for your service and tenure. Youll be missed by this committee. And all of us wont miss attempting to pronounce your last name. Especially if hes from louisiana. Right. So thank you for your service. I thank you, you reflect a very high standards of commitment to service, to we the people, the Law Enforcement community, myself included, certainly recognize your professionalism in very difficult times. Regarding board of security in a humanitarian crisis at the border, to follow up on what my essteamed colleague stated earlier, in my opinion and many americans, the responsibility for failure primarily lies with congress. Not with the boots on the ground and not with the executive. On june 27th, after many months of delay, emergency board of supplemental to address the crisis was finally passed by this congress. Important missions like providing health and Human Services funds to carry out programs for unaccompanied ail ooen children, many other worthwhile investments, those funds specifically were meant to ensure unaccompanied minors received adequate care and services to address the humanitarian crisis at the border. I witnesses said my colleagues firsthand, since funding was passed, have you seen improved conditions at the border with regard to humanitarian aid weve seen dramatic improvements. We were able to provide that immediately for unaccompanied children. That resulted in adramatic drop from a peak of 2,700 unaccompanied children down to now on an average day its between 85 and 150. Those children are moving quickly to a better setting for their care usually in less than 24 hours. Would you concur that this of course is a priority not just for the department of Homeland Security but for us as a nation as a compassionate and loving nation . Theres no question. The opportunity to provide better situations for families arriving with the new facilities, if the 6,000 additional temporary beds that we provided that are not in police stations is also thank you. I bring that up because this committee has r committee has a responsibility to move forward with the peoples business in a bipartisan manner. Do you believe that regardless of what Party Controls congress, whos in the majority or minority or who sits in the white house, that focus and funding from congress on the continuing issues at our southern border, security and humanitarian, would you concur that regardless of politics in this bizarre realm of washington, d. C. , that we should as a nation focus on improving the conditions at our southern border . I would agree. Thank you, sir. May i ask you in my remaining time regarding Cartel Activity, theres been reports of increased cartel to cartel violence, how has that impact the customs and Border Patrol at the border and what level of cooperation is dhs receiving from mexican Law Enforcement . And has that cross border cooperation been impacted greatly by the conflict among mexican cartels . If youll address those questions regarding the Cartel Activity in mexico . The extreme violence that the cartels will mounting over control of territory, access to the border, the valuable routes to conduct drug or human smuggling activities, remainds intense, especially in tauma lippas, that creates challenges in our security environment at the border but also for our counterparts. You say they just to clarify, mexican Law Enforcement . Mexican government. Theyve taken elements of military, navy and police and combined them into a National Guard that is helping patrol their southern border between chappas and guatemala for all types of smuggling, especially human, and states in transit routes toward their northern border where we still want to collaborate further and gain control is working on them in joint patrols on shared border so we can prevent access to those routes for any type of smuggling to these violent organizations. Thats an area we need to continue to partner and develop. Secretary again, sthank you. Gentleman yields back. Chair recognizes the gentle lady from new mexico. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you Ranking Member. Thank you all for being here and particularly secretary mcaleenan, thank you for your years of service to the department of Homeland Security and our country. On the eve of your departure, were looking now at our fifth secretary of Homeland Security, and id like to think how you think that lack of continuity and leadership might impact the ability for the department to fulfill its mission of protecting National Security. One of the things thats been very gratifying for me the last six and a half months serving is getting exposed to parts of the department that i knew about but hadnt had the chance to work directly with. And, you know, areas where weve partnered on narcotics or say a response to a Natural Disaster like with the coast guard. But now embedding with them, i spent the night on a coast guard cutter two weeks ago off el salvador, understanding their mission and capabilities. Talking with our sister professionals on how theyre looking at the landscape, working with the private sector, state and local, these counties and townships managing elections, thinking about the similarities between how at customs we work with the supply chain, theyre working with state and locals, im just very confident with the quality and caliber of leadership across this department. Ive seen how effective and clear they are, how dedicated they are. Thank you. New leadership is key. Im not going to disagree with you there. Im not worried about continuity. I think we both can agree that there are good folks working and Senior Leadership is key. One of the concerns you hit on that i share, when it comes to our cyberassets, come to protectorsing our election, all of those require careful relationships with private partners, foreign partners, with our public sector. It requires careful coordination and leadership is key in that. Do you see how lack of leadership especially when youve identified the need to bring government, private sector and International Parties as well as the public together to combat do you see how having to go through another secretary to impact our ability to do that . One of the i focus on three things during any tenure, Border Security and immigration, election, and counterterrorism, we have very clear strategic intent, framework. I understand that. In terms of cyberassets, do you see the change in leadership again could impact our ability to maintain those essential partnerships . The main connection point on cyberboth in our agencies and the private, is the director of sissa, chris kreb is in place, hes well respected. He has tremendous partnerships, i dont think a different secretary or acting secretary is going to affect that. When it comes to Election Security, again the main reason the one of the main focuses is making sure that you have youre working with foreign partners as well as local Election Officials, state officials. And given that on the eve of secretary nielsens departure, she sought to warn the president about continuing russian involvement, do you see a change in leadership as impacting the potential for affecting our Election Security . I dont. With director wray, with the dni, kris krebs, general knock soeny, we breefiefed the house a team to address Election Security from the foreign to the counties and townships. I think we have a team effort and clear lanes that were all working in concert against. I dont want to downplay the work that you have done. I just have a fear that some of it will be lost with continuing effort to protect our election infrastructure. Thats my concern. Youve expressed a need for this to continue into the work of 2020 for that election cycle. Do you see that impacting with now having to change leadership given the large learning curve that the next person will have . I dont think so because of the strength of director krebs and our partners across the cyberand Election Security efforts. Lastly with Transnational Criminal Organizations and the need to coordinate with federal partners as well as foreign partners, to alleviate some of the push factors that were seeing in the northern triangle, do you see that the change in leadership, the lack of continuity, will impact those relationships to help stem those push factors . Thats been the entire focus of my tenure. We have over a dozen agreements with mexico and guatemala, honduras, el salvador, we are executing against those. I have high confidence that well be able to maintain that. Its been the main focus with u. S. Secretary to do that work and now youre having to leave and someone else will have to face that learning curve . The agreements are in place wnd were executing and operating against those agreements. We dont have to do that frontline diplomatic effort again. I think we can continue to make progress. Thank you. Gentleman ladys time has expire. Chair recognizes gentleman from texas, mr. Taylor, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Appreciate that and this hearing. I think this is important. I wanted to shift toward the department of Homeland Security. Appreciate your leadership there and in some ways in my short time here in washington p seems like an agency that is embattled. Were watching different groups advocating for different things. One of the things ive been most surprised by is the adcacy for disbanding the Homeland Security. It goes without saying that that is bad for morale when members of korns are advocating to get rid of the entire department of Homeland Security. Mr. Secretary, how would you respond to someone who says that we do not need a department of Homeland Security . I guess fundamentally i would say they dont understand how the department has matured and evolved to work in a cohesive manner to address the threats we face. I think its an essential part of our Homeland Security fabric and enterprise. The synergy that weve developed across operating components with our director, state and local, International Partners, that is because of the multimission capabilities we bring, the authorities that are unique, the opportunity to have civilian and military service, coast guard, all of that is integral to pro teching the homeland across the variety of threats. And in addition to threats, you also have fema, which is the ability to respond, coast guard which deals with threats but also responds to national disasters. I will say that i have not heard a member of this committee who seemed to have more expertise around understanding of what it is that goes into what you do in appreciation that while we may disagree on how youre doing it on the complexity, we can all agree that certain things need to be done, a Disaster Response or securing the border or having an immigration system thats orderly. I dont think we should be getting rid of the department of Homeland Security. Im somewhat taken aback with the suggestions from some of my colleagues that thats an idea. I havent heard that on this committee. And i know that during your questioning, you were cut off a couple of times. Is there anything you wanted to add, mr. Secretary . Nothing to add right now. Thank you. Director wray, shifting over to your job, it seems like youre able to place into people that are inspired by International Terrorist organizations, thats easier to do because theres some web that youre able to integrate into. Whereas homegrown violence seems more difficult to police. Can you talk about is that a correct perception . Thats what my perception from sitting on this committee but i wanted to hear from someone whos doing it on the ground . I think youre correct, congressman. In particular on the International Terrorism side, because of the nexus to foreign persons and foreign threats and foreign theyreriserrorist orga, we have the ability to use tools, fisa in particular, which is absolutely indispensable to our effectiveness in protecting this country. We dont have that in a purely domestic context. Thats one particular way in which we are not as we have less transparency sometimes. But i will say in general, the domestic terrorism threat is increasingly, as i think mr. Travers used the term, diffuse. So and i think thats why this issue of complacency becomes so important. The post9 11 era of sleeper sells, massive large scale attacks, thats still out there. But weve moved into this world where you have terrorists, including domestic, who arent organized, who are loan actors. A lot of times theyre communicating with each other in a more informal way online or in some other way, inspiring each other. And the lack of a structure makes it more challenging for us, for example, to get human sources or undercovers inserted. If theres no organization to insert somebody into, thats a challenge. Thats part of the different nature of the threat. Sure. I guess my closing seconds, i would like to thank the men and women of the fbi for what they do for our country. I am incredibly grateful, particularly for your countercorrection efforts and what you have done to keep this country on the level in terms of government. It has been depressing to me to see how states are unable to police themselves in terms of corruption among and its im very grateful for the people at the fbi that provide that level of policing. They are just in a Mission Critical thing for our democracy. Im grateful for your service. I yield back. Gentlemans time has expired. For everybody concerned, were trying to get the temperature adjusted a little bit. I just kind of look at everybody and they kind of drawn up. We understand. Chair recognizes the gentleman from new york for five minutes, mr. Rose. Thank you Ranking Member and to the gentleman on the dais, thank you all for your service. I want to put out a few questions regarding our current efforts against the jihadist threat and make sure were on the same page. My understanding is today we have the correct levels of authority and resources at hand to track foreign jihadist fighters moving to isis or al qaeda and its affiliates and their efforts to come to the United States. That is correct . Okay. Currently we have the correct resources and authority at hand to track and use the tools of Law Enforcement to prevent or punish those american citizens who send resources to isis, al qaeda or its affiliates. Is that correct . And lastly currently we have the correct resources hold on just a minute. Say yes or no. That helps everybody. Director. Well, im answering the last question, my answer is yes. Thank you. And currently, we have the authorities and the resources at hand, should someone use the tools of social media, to translate isis texts, al qaeda texts, disemanate that information, recruit people, whether at home or abroad, the tools of Law Enforcement are available to us to punish those individuals. Is that correct . And what im specifically referring to is providing Material Support to a Foreign Terrorist Organization . Right. Legally Material Support is a very valuable tool for the kinds of things youre talking about. You get into the tech nol ojcal dimension which is getting challenging, the encryption, and that is a phenomenons th thats going to become bigger and bigger. If we can identify what were doing, there are charges associated with that. You all described each in your own separate way this domestic terrorist threat, white nationalism, white supremacist, as transnational in nature and mirroring many of the tools of id logical purr situation that the jihadist threat has used for 25, 30 years or more. I want to ask the same exact questions as it pertains to some of these global White Nationalist, white supremacist, neonazi soaringizations that we see today, the azav, National Action in uk, nordic in sweden, allenties that the government has identified as hostile in nature. Do we currently have the authority and resources in place to track who has gone to these places to train and work with them and make sure they are tracked when they come to the United States . You, mr. Secretary . Thats one of the things we emphasize in our framework. For dhs our operational effectiveness and authority is applied to that border and across broerd movement of people, goods, money. Its a simple question. With respect to your service, someone goes and trains with the asad bad talion, do we have them on a list . Between our National Targeting Center under cbp, Homeland Security, weve had multiple efforts, just in the last year where weve used that collaboration and movement to address and make arrests, take away visas, private that collaboration. Yes weve been focused on that. Sir, mr. Director. I think we used different tools than on the International Terrorism side but weve been affected much as mcaleenan said, we just use different offenses and work with foreign partners. Mr. Travers . Ive probably talked to 15 of my counterparts particularly around europe and Southeast Asia on this particular problem. Everyone is glapelirappling wit same thing. Our european colleagues find that these are close to Political Parties and that confronts the free speech issue. This is something we are all grappling with. So is hammas and hezbollah and that hasnt stopped us. My larger question southbound, to consider designating them as Foreign Terrorists, bor is the if a White Nationalist organization fits the criteria of an fto, should we consider designating them as such, to fight isis, al qaeda awe and its affiliates . Designation is not an Intelligence Community function. It belongs to the state department. Is that all . All of your answer here . That this is the state departments purview. Designations purview, state department, yes. I understand that my time is running out. My question, would this assist you . Im sure if we took away the fto designation for other terrorist organizations, you would protesprotest object to that . We would find that problematic, yes. As secretary mcaleenan said, we can always use more tools. Youre never going to find a Law Enforcement or professional who doesnt want more tools. I can imagine situations where it would be helpful for us to have as a tool. I would say more and more, and i reference this in my opening statement, more and more the biggest fear we face in the u. S. , whether domestic terrorism or International Terrorism, we have these selfradicalized actors here. And so the whole concept of going after organizations, which was a construct that was created about things like al qaeda, hezbollah, et cetera, is still valid. But the threat that we face right now isnt so much about organizations. And thats why the approach that youre scribing might be useful but i dont think its necessarily going to hit what we consider the biggest threat that were facing here. Thats why what chair recognizes gentleman from new york. Thank you. At the outset i want to thank mr. Mak aleenan for his career in Public Service and all hes done. We very much appreciate what youve done and youve done an extroed nairly good job. I wish i had an hour or two for you. Theres so many questions i want to ask. Director wray, something you said struck me. That was that the cyber on the cyberfront, we have a wider range of threats now than ever before. As the Ranking Member of cybersecurity subcommittee, im amazed at the complexity of the threats and permutations of the threats. I want to talk about that. You mentioned a few of them, ransom ware, trade supply chain, trade secrets, china. What else can we be doing to help . Certainly we need to work more and more closely with the private sector. And so things that help facilitate that are always useful. In this country Something Like 90 of the Critical Infrastructure are in the hands the cyberthreats in particular for the United States unlike say a very centralized country like china, where over half the countries are companies are stateowned, requires that partnership with the private sector. This is a place that for me we need to see more and more resources devoted because were going to have to engage more and more with the private sector on that issue. I will also say that Data Analytics are an increasingly big problem. Its not a sexy topic but its incredibly significant in the cyberarena particularly. In any way case, the volumes and volumes of theyre coming up with new kinds of bytes, put your own prefix in front of it, to capture the volume, the ability to exploit that fast enough is a real challenge. And so helping dhs and fbi and others have the tools to exploit that information is going to be a significant step forward. I do want to talk about that a little bit. Youre right. Its a different dynamic. I was a federal prosecutor for 20 years, organized crime. You worked together with different agencies and go after the bad guys. Youre protecting the public. Here we have to work so closely with the private sector, i dont think we do a good enough job. Can you expound a little bit more on the resource standpoint, what specifically you think you would need in order to get this done . We need more agents, computer scientists, data analysts and tools, technological tools, to be able to engage in more and more cases. One of the biggest frustrations we hear from the private sector is how quickly we can engage on a lot of these things. And part of that is because of the point you made, the sheer volume. The attack surface is so broad now. So were trying to use our cybertask forces that we have all over the country that have a whole lot of different agencies on them. Were trying to look for ways to partner with the private sector. Again a lot of it comes down to people and tools. And very specific kinds of people and tools. Id like to follow up with you offline about this and get a better handle on what it is we need so then we can maybe try and fulfill your requests. Mr. Mak aleenan, the centerpiece for Homeland Security is insisa, how is it going . What else can we do better with them . I think its going very well. I want to echo the directors points about people and tools. We do need more, the attack surface is broad. Id like to add that the state and local government levels, we really do need to think about the right resourcing to support our states. Were going to have an election in 2020 with a well over 90 of voters casting ballots with good auditable paper backups. Not every state is there. Thats a resourcing issue. When we engage counties were talking about updating their Windows Software to eliminate vulnerabilities that have existed for years. We do have awareness challenges. That kind of engagement is critical. The Public Utilities side of this equation, industrial control systems, everything from pipelines to power, this is a critical area where we need those quasi governmental and private sector entities to take the cybersecurity measures they need to be successful. Im out of time. Is there anything else you want to add to that . Just to follow, our engagement with the private sector is critical. Weve conducted a real heavy emphasis on engagements through the corporate, which i host. But getting the collection requirements show the private sector how to protect their brand, customers, clients, is critical. Were not going to be able to win this fight or to try and influence homeland. Its a new dynamic. How were using the state Fusion Centers and partner with the fbi is critical to have that information sharing. Its not about a competitive advantage. Its about equal advantage with those foreign adversaries. I just want to note, this is an area i think we should have a subject of a hearing and try and figure out what the manpower yiefrmts might be. Maybe we can formulate something. It is a critically important airr area. Chair agrees. Weve already had some discussions. Chair recognizes gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver, for five minutes. Thank you. Id like to thank all of you, and thank you, too, m mr. Mcaleenan for your appearan appearance before the committee and the fact that youve been a straight shooter with us. Thank you very much. Are any of you concerned about what could happen and may be already happening as a result of the cryptocurrency issue . The thing that is frightening to me in looking at this is that the software is available to just about anybody, including people who would like to do some harm to us. And you can do a transaction just like that. Unless we have some really low i iq bad guys, in the future were going to have to deal with people moving arguably millions of dollars millions of invisible dollars going here and there. Is there a division well, i know finsen is working in the treasury but is there a division anywhere else focusing on this problem that is only going to grow, director wray . I think youve put your finger on a very vexing issue for everyone in Law Enforcement and National Security more broadly. At the fbi we have an office of Technology Division tha that is keenly focused on cryptocurrency and we have a number of tools we use to try to break past or get around the anon imization that occurs there. Every time we come up with a new tool theres new crip oe currency coming right behind it. You mentioned its not just the low iq bad guys. One of the phenomena were seeing increasingly is in effect, crime as a service. In other words, there are sophisticated forms out there. And on the dark web there are organizations marketing it to the low iq bad guys so its available to those people too. This is absolutely going to be a phenomenon Going Forward that we need to be concerned about. Can i just add, congressman, i agree with you 100 , that traysability of Financial Transactions is a huge vulnerability as we emerge. For dhs, secret service has ability on financial and cyberand this is the nexus of both. Homeland security has this capability and is working these problems as well. I dont know if undersecretary wants to add anything . Just to echo what the secretary just said, the vulnerabilities we have for how we sidefy Illicit Activity and how we track is critical. We also have the policies and authorities in place to do that. Thank you. I wish we could have a whole hearing on this issue. Ive spent a little time dealing with it. And finsen we probably need somebody from treasy to talk to us about what is finsen. Theres also this proposal being floated around now by treasury that the secret service should be trans ferred out of dhs, into treasury. I guess im not sure if we want to connect with finsen or what. Anybody, any of you have a position on it, especially you mr. Mcaleenan . Sir, ive talked about and understand why treasury would want to be associated with one of the finest large agencies. Twentyfourth do have a nexus with the financial responsibilities with treasury. Theyre well enskonsed on National Security and threats. Obviously look at that with the administration and congress in the months ahead. Okay. Since youre leaving, do you think that that should remain with Homeland Security . I think there are strong arguments on the placement for secret service in both departments, and i support the dialogue that the administration is having with congress at this time. Thank you. Youre a good man, mr. Director. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Claire now recognizes the gentleman from tennessee. Thank you. Being a fellow of mississippian, i agree, its kind of chilly in here. Mr. Secretary, makkaalenan, thank you for your service. As i understand your story where you were watching the towers fall at 9 11 and ran to the sound of guns. I appreciate that. For those of us in service at that time, we look at that with great admiration. Thank you. To all of the witnesses here today, thanks for your service to our great country. I appreciate you being here. My question is really to all of you or whomever you think is best to answer it. Id still like to dig into this cooperation between isis and aq, what you think their capacities are if they combine and how that impacts the homeland . Ill start. There are places around the globe where isis and aq definitely cooperate. West africa i think being a classic case where an aq affiliate certainly cooperate on the ground. I think the general view is that were very unlikely to see a Strategic Alliance between the two. There are issues associated, al qaeda thought the cal fat itself was a mistake. The very issue of al baghdadi being a cal if, graded at aaq to be sure. My guess is were going to continue to see, isis and aq battle in places, yemen and east africa. Whereas in the homeland and director wray could talk to this, we see an iddio sin kratic individuals will cite cisis, weve seen that in europe. But in general, i dont think were going to see a Strategic Alliance. Switching gears a little bit to cyber, what are your thoughts on block chain and its impact on cybersecurity and is there an increased vulnerable with block chain or is it decreased . Is that protective in any way, i guess . I think it has potential to dekroo decrease vulnerable subpoe. Supply chain is critical. Im speaking of the traditional cargo from customs and Border Protection background, being able to verify that from a facility all the way to unloading it at a walmart in the u. S. , thats a promising type of capability. I think ultimately block chain will be a help as its aplaced in various sectors. How well do you think government as a whole is accepting that . I agree with you. Are we moving toward block chain across the infrastructure . I think private sector is going to drive it. What were trying to do is play a productive role where we can partner in the Financial Sector for instance in the movement of cargo and supply chains. And in suber security applications applicatio applications as well to provide a support setting. I think theres a lot of work to be done and thats a dialogue that needs to happen with congress as well. Again, changing the subject, this is for undersecretary glawe, can you elaborate on the National Vetting center, where we are, the memorandum that was recently issued and give us an update on that . Sure. Myself and the secretary for many years in our prior capacity have been working on this. Im happy to say the National Vetting center is right on track. That is really taking u. S. Intelligence community data, Law Enforcement, u. S. Customs and others, define nefarious actors, were expanding to look at others, its really a model that the secretary led in his prior capacities in developing the Business Model to find bad things that are trying to come into the United States. This will be expanded to car zbgo. It is a model that is important. Were the last line of defense before bad things come in the country. I would defer to the secretary, because he was really the architect behind this for many years and he saw it before he left. I think the undersecretary summarized it very well. Its a collaboration with the Intelligence Community and other partners that has expanded that has been done from the beginning with inclusion of privacy from across the interagency to make sure were doing this right with every Additional Data set, comparison, we have the right safeguards in place. Its identifying individuals that could pose a threat that we wouldnt have seen before this capability was brought online. I i think it is absolutely headed in the right direction. I just want to thank you for that work. Thank you both. Gentleman from mississippi and tennessee yields back. Chair recognizes gentleman from texas, mr. Green, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank the witnesses for appearing. And id like to juxtapose if i may two children. Weve seen the photographs of the babies coming from south of the border. But ive also seen as of late a photograph of a child three years of age born in ukraine, came to this country with his father after his mother died. Grew up in brooklyn. Masters degree from harvard. Serves in the military. Purple heart recipient. There was no way to prognosticate at the time this child sought to enter the United States that he would become the person he is today. No way. One can but only imagine the number of children weve turned away who may have been of great benefit to our country. Immigrants have made america great. Not by themselves, but theyve been a part of the greatness of this country. And when i see the photograph of this baby being separated from a parent, crying, theres just no way to know what weve done when a person is seeking lawful asylum. In my research, i dont find any place where the colonel, whom i have Great Respect for by the way, dont believe hes being treated fairly, but i have not found in my research any indication that he was required to wait in a third country for some period of time before he could enter this country. My research doesnt indicate that at that time persons who were coming from europe or ukraine in this case, any of them had to why are we treating persons coming from south of the border so differently . Wait in a third country, working out agreements such that if they dont do certain things in other countries, they are going to be denied the opportunity to traverse to this country . Why are we treating them so differently, if you would, mr. Honorable mr. Mak aleenan . Congressman, under the u. S. Refugee programs, people do apply and bait in third countries while they go through the process with first of all the u. N. , international migration, with state department, and then dhs, so it is a multiagency process that happens abroad. For refugees that come to the country today. To the most welcoming nation in the world. Is it your indication for me to the record that this is what occurred with the colonel . I dont know the colonels individual case, congressman, im sorry. I dont know it in totality. But i know enough about it to suggest that it appears to me that were not being even handed in terms of our approach at the turn of the century we had many people to come to this country, not the into the 21 and we didnt have the requirements we have for the people coming from south of the border. And a lot of these changes are changes that were made on your watch. This happened on your watch. You have some responsibility for whats happening. This is not to disrespect you, dear friend, but it is to say that some of this could have been abated. You did comment and indicate that it was terminated because of the way it was impacting people. I hope i said that correctly. Im not trying to demean you or the president. But it shouldnt have started. It shouldnt have started. Why what made us decide that these people should be treated the way they were treated . Sir, i dont think we have the time today to have a fulsome conversation on this, but let me try to answer your question. The laws have changed dramatically since the turn of the century and the prior arrival of mass migrations. Were trying to apply those laws. Were also trying to ensure individuals who need protections, protections for asylum, and these categories are political, racial, religious, membership in a social group, theyre able to receive those protections as close to home as possible without entering a dangerous smuggling cycle. We cant have an immigration system based on a darwinian principle, that anyone who arrives at the border is allowed to enter. We have 70 million vulnerable population my time is expired. I must say this, sir. Nowhere in the law do we have language such as you just used. That was done to inflame. If you were in court and being questioned, you would be taken to task for trying to use that type of inflammatory language. Darwinian. Theres nothing in the law that says darwinian. And you know this. That was done intentionally to inflame. Im not inflaming anything but thats what that language does. Im explaining youre using inflammatory language. I was careful to try as best as i could to be fair to you and the president , but the truth is this, they are people of color. With people of color, we have a different standard. If these were babies coming from the north, we would not have treated them the way we treated i disagree. We apply the law equally to refuse he gees it doesnt evidence itself in what we see. I yield back. The gentleman yields back. Time is expired. Chair recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank secretary mcaleenan for your service to our nation and to the American People, protecting the American People. And i think very difficult times. When i was chairman of this committee, i saw the rise and fall of isis in the socalled caliphate. We just had recently the killing, the death of Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. Id like to know just from the secretary and the two directors, fbi and nctc, what impact that has on the morale of isis and what how much of a threat are they today . I believe, just starting quickly and passing to my colleagues, i believe they do continue to present a threat. And as russ travers noted, the inspiration of their ideology persists. One thing weve done with dhs with the fbi put out a joint intelligence bulletin ensuring theres awareness of the potential. Even though it hasnt happened in the past after the death of a senior leader, the potential for someone to be inspired and to commit an attack in the immediate aftermath. We do think its going to affect their ability to reorganize and to direct, but were we maintain our concern about the diffuse and dispersed isis afill affiliates and their ability to mount threats against the u. S. Worldwide. I would agree with secretary mcaleenan. Certainly, its an important blow, a successful blow for which were all grateful. But it is also clearly the case they anticipated at some point they would need to have successors. To a large extent what were most worried about here in the homeland is what i would call the virtual caliphate, which is people who are inspired online, which is easier to do and not all tracing back to one leader. And director travers. I would just add that they have been thinking about the demise of the caliphate for a couple of years. Anani talked about it and the need to prepare for insurgency. As i said in my comments, they lost a lot of leaders. This is a bureaucracy pretty good at doing secession planning. Its a morale hit. You can largely attribute the decline in attacks in europe over the last couple of years to the demise of the caliphate. But, nevertheless, the ideology continues, the resonance continues and thats a strategic concern. I do think the threat level has gone down a little bit during mean, 2015, 2016 is one operational external operational plot per month, it seemed like. Let me add, domestic terrorism seems to be on the rise. Director wray, i want to ask you about in terms of numbers and arrests. How many domestic terrorism arrests were effectuated in 2019 . So, in 2019 we had 107 domestic terrorism arrests and we had, i think, 121, give or take, International Terrorism arrests. And so in terms of International Terrorism, there were more International Terrorism arrests than domestic terrorism . Yes. Theyre pretty close in number, but pretty close . Yes. How does that compare to the Previous Year . The Previous Year was both around hovering around 100 arrests both the prior year as well. I will say on the International Terrorism side in terms of number investigations we have ongoing, we have both the homegrown violent extremists, which are these people here inspired by various parts of the jihadist movement. We have about 1,000 give or take investigations of that sort. Then thats not counting the Foreign Terrorist Organizations who are directed, structured International Terrorism organizations that have another 1,000 or so of those. While domestic terrorism is absolutely something thats very much top of mind and we at the fbi recently elevated to be a National Threat priority along with hves and isis, International Terrorism is very much alive and well and something we need to stay focused on, too. I think thats correct. You know, we talk a lot about domestic terrorism being on the rise but i dont think we can let our eyes off the ball of Foreign Terrorist Organizations and International Terrorism. I introduced a bill with some colleagues. You know, you have domestic terrorism definition that was created after 9 11. Congress passed, you know, laws pertaining to terrorism. And both International Terrorism and domestic terrorism. International terrorism had charges aassociated with it. Domestic terrorism did not. The fbi opens cases of domestic terrorism and International Terrorism, however the u. S. Attorneys, and i was one of them, cannot charge a domestic terrorism case. Theres no specific charge related to that. I introduced that bill working with the fbi and it was endorsed by the fbi association. Do you have any comments on that bill and what what value that would give to the fbi and the u. S. Attorneys . Well, i think as i had mentioned in response to a different question, certainly we can always use more tools. As you say and as you experienced firsthand in the u. S. Attorneys office, we dont have a domestic terrorism crime as such. What you probably also saw and probably practiced while you were in the u. S. Attorneys office is our folks at the fbi, just like the ausas they work with dont give up, and so they find workarounds. Weve been very good at using Everything Else in title 18, including creative things. Most recently we used the federal riots statute to go after terrorism connected with charlottesville and the rise above Movement People there. We also work with our state and local authorities. Especially in places like texas. Weve had some very successful work with state and local Law Enforcement. You can get some pretty good hits at state and local charges. The state charge has the death penalty. But i think, mr. Chairman, in closing, you know, whether it was austin bombers, which was is clearly terrorism, to el paso to odessa, i think this is something we should take a look at. I yield back. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from new jersey, miss watson coleman. Thank you for coming today. Good luck to mr. Mcaleenan. Good luck to you and whatever it is youre going to do next. I have a number of questions. I could be here forever. I want to start with either mr. Glawe or mr. Travers. There are 15,000 isis members in syria and other places and iraq versus 1,000. Who said that . I did, maam. Okay. What is the time frame youre talking about, from when to when . This is five years ago before the buildup of isis and the caliphate was formed. Isis was down to about 1,000 people. Even after the demise of the caliphate, the low end of the estimate is 14,000 isis members in syria and iraq, mostly in iraq. Which for us suggests there is a great ver tile ground for a longterm insurgency. Do you think given the recent betrayal of our kurdish allies and and the uproar and chaos taking place over there becomes Fertile Ground for isis to grow there as well . Sorry, maam. I didnt get the question. The president of the United States pulled away the troops who were supporting the kurds, fighting with the kurds against isis. Turkey has infiltrated it theres been alliances with russia, our other really trusted friend. Isis is some of their prisoners are escaping. There seems to be chaos and fear and elimination happening over there. Im wondering, does that make it a more fertile territory for isis to grow as well . Thats just yes or no. Its a very fluid situation. We dont know what the syrian river is going to do east of the river. I believe both the president and the secretary of defense have indicated that we remain committed with our forces there to a contra isis campaign. So were just going to protect the oil. Do we have any idea how many members of al qaeda exist . Numbers are difficult to come by. Again, were looking at command and control structure that exists and then a half dozen or so affiliates and they have thousands of individuals each. So, are we talking about another 15,000, 20,000 . Im trying to figure out how safe i feel. I would say the numbers themselves are not a particularly good indicator of capability. This is what i heard, and you can tell me if im wrong. Im hearing that were doing pretty good at keeping bad people, really bad people out of the United States of america. Even in Cyber Security were doing a decent job of trying to protect our infrastructure, those things that important to us, whether its china for monetary reasons or russia for disruption of our infrastructure. Im hearing that, right . Thats basically what im hearing . Just anybody just tell me. I can only speak to terrorism but i think this country has done a great job of bushing borders out and establishing a comprehensive vetting position. I want to go into for a minute, real fast, this whole issue of domestic terrorism. And i want to direct my questions to mr. Wray. Mr. Wray, first of all im sorry, honorable mr. Wray, you have collapsed youre taking away this horrible category of black extremism and the report that went with it. You have now collapsed what is white supremism, replacement supremism and black separatism into a racially motivated category of terrorism. Do you then distinct make a distinction as to who commits what infractions . And do you have any indication, are we having a greater percentage of those incidences happening with white supremacists, white replacementists or black extremists . And in so, can you tell me the breakdown . Well, i cant give you exact numbers sitting here right now, but what i can tell you is that the reorganization of our categories, our nomenclature was based on a lot of helpful dialogue i had with congressional black caucus, with noble, with lots of other people and was part of a much broader reorganization. Within the racially motivated violent extremist category, i think it is fair to say from what we see internally that a huge chunk, the majority of the racially motivated violent extremism terrorism, the majority of that is at the hands of what i would call white supremacists. And are we aware of the linkages that might take place internationally, from what we saw at christchurch and things of that nature . Were very actively looking at that. We spent a lot of time trying to discern trends and leads on that front. And have we identified those connections, would we then be able to identify the groups as terrorist groups . Where there are groups as such, i think weve been pretty effective at identifying them. I will say, as i think i may have mentioned to one of your colleague, more and more on the domestic terrorism, its not really about groups in the same way we used to thing of groups as al qaeda and hezbollah. Its more diffuse, more unstructured and undisciplined. So, i think you have a really huge task. All of you have a huge task to keep us safe. And i thank you for the work you do. Im concerned about the fbi having its resources taken away from doing this really important stuff and put into a position to have to investigate itself as to whether or not there was a treasonist investigation done as it related to the 2016 involvement of russia in our election. And i pray that your resources arent taken away so you can continue to focus on that which is really a threat to us and it is safety and security and congress can concentrate on the other. Thank you. I yield back. The gentle ladys time has expired. Chair recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Crenshaw, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. A lot of great discussion today. Ill try to hit some different topics. This one this question regarding hezbollah and the recent decision of the lebanese president to step down, ill direct this to you, mr. Travers, how do you think that affects the iranian threat, the hezbollah threat globally and then maybe you can expand upon what the next us is between hezbollah and some of the groups south of the border in south america and mexican drug cartels, if any. Well, the unrest in lebanon and hariris decision largely a local issue having to do with a whatsapp tax. Its been fascinating to watch. I dont know it has a great deal to do with hezbollah itself. I think hezbollah was a fan of hariris and would like him to stay put. Hezbollah itself, youre quite right, is an extraordinary organization and it does have global connections. Its a very mature organization. Its very careful in its decisionmaking process. Were watching very carefully its activities in the middle east right now how if it would respond to iran. In our view, it has no interest in going to war with israel, for instance. It has a high bar for any attacks against the United States. Nusrala is a pro. What is its capability and have you seen any nexus between them and groups south of the border . There was long thought to be a relationship between them and the triborder area, what about closer to our border, is there any potential for that kind of relationship . In this session, i dont think we can get into that. I need to do that in a closed session. Fair enough. Lets talk about the mexican drug cartels we see south of the border. Ill direct this to you, mr. Secretary. One thing that stands out to me from a tactical perspective is how capable of mexican drug cartels are. What their weaponry, training, their brutality and endless amount of funding. If you look around the world, as far as threats that at a very tactical level, theyre probably one of the most capable groups. You know, right now they have no interest in conducting attacks against the United States. Their interests are more business related. How can we do better with the Mexican Government to quell this threat and what should we be worried about in the future . Its a challenging one. I outlined it in my opening as one of the major threat vectors we see affecting the homeland. Not necessarily a directed act of violence. They focus that on each other, primarily, and unfortunately on the government of mexico and other allys Police Forces in the region. Really, their ability to smuggle hard narcotics in the u. S. Weve seen fent nell and opioid, methamphetamine is the main concern in scale, if you talk to our state and local Law Enforcement partners right now. There are four or five very violent, very capable organizations that impact the safety of the mexican citizens in a number of states. Is there more we can be doing with the Mexican Government . Is there a better relationship that could be had . Is that a good place right now . I think both the department of Homeland Security and other ic partners are supporting the government of mexico Law Enforcement. I think we need to continue work on the weapons flowing south, the money flowing south that is helping support Cartel Activities in mexico and in the region more broadly. That has to be a concerted effort across the usg. Thank you. Director wray, ill point this last one to you. You mentioned before thwarting various attacks, domestic and Foreign Affairs attacks over the last couple of years. You didnt give any numbers. Maybe those are classifies. Thats fine. I wonder if weve been more successful than we were 20, 30 years ago and why . Is it because stovepiping has ceased to be such a problem . Inner Agency Relationships are working better . Do we have better tools . Is our presence overseas helpful . Is it hurting . Are the eyes and ears on the ground, is the intelligence collection, is our view of the networks helping us out there . Are we keeping them busy so that theyre not planning attacks here . What is it . Im out of time after that question. Ill let you take it. In the interest of time what i would say most of most of the reasons for the success is boiling down to one word, which is partnerships. Partnerships between federal agencies, partnership in particular between federal agencies and state and local Law Enforcement, partnerships within Intelligence Community, partnerships with our foreign partne partners. All those things have led to greater flow of information, greater connecting of the dots, greater ability to get ahead of the threat and a greater recognition that theres no one disruption strategy. Theres a lot of different ways in which you can disrupt the terrorist attack. It could be a kinetic strike, criminal Law Enforcement action, it could be some visa action, it could be a Foreign Government taking action. Theres a lot of different tools in the tool box if everybodys talking to each other. I will say having been in the fbi building on 9 11 and been intimately involved in the war on terror during those years and then coming back into this role now, the difference between how closely everybodys working together i know this sounds a little pollyannaish, its night and day it and couldnt come a moment too soon. The chair recognizes the gentle lady from california, miss barragan for five minutes. We have seen an expansion of human rights abuses under this Administration Simply named migrant protection protocols or the remain in mexico policy. The name almost assumes that this program will actually protect migrants when it does the complete opposite. Instead of allowing Asylum Seekers to remain safely in the u. S. As they wait for their cases to be heard, as has been done by law under the u. S. Refugee act, you have forced nearly 50,000 Asylum Seekers, including vulnerable individuals like those with serious medical conditions, pregnant women, lgbtq people to wait in areas plagued by violence like the state of tamalpias, mexico, which is a level 4 threat. This is the same warning that countries like afghanistan, iraq, syria and north korea have. Im going to say this again. We are sending people, pregnant women back to dangerous places in mexico that have a level 4 threat thats equivalent of afghanistan, iraq, syria and north korea. Before you decided to return families with children and over Asylum Seekers to wait in these very dangerous places in mexico, did you conduct any type of analysis, any type, to assess the potential harm these Asylum Seekers might suffer . So, the migrant protection protocols is a program in connection with the government of mechanics doe im asking if you had any kind of assessment of the potential harm of where they were being sent. Did we do that . There was a months long dialogue with the government of mexico im asking if the United States its a yes or no. Did you assess the threat level before you sent them there . Between the department of Homeland Security, department of state, which jointly negotiated this program with the government of mexico, assessments were done on mexicans ability to manage this program and jointly with the United States. So, you did assess this and you thought it was perfectly fine. Do you know there are public reports of kidnappings, assaults and other reports on families and other Asylum Seekers that are returned to mexico . Are you reading these reports . Are you hearing about them . Certainly we carefully monitor reports of violence in the northern border states of mexico have you heard about people being kidnapped, yes or no . Yes. Have you heard about people being assaulted please let me finish the answer. I dont have that much time. I want to know what you are aware of because sometimes its not a yes or no. My colleagues over here are talking about how were a compassionate and loving nation, but sending a deaf child back to mexico into a level four area is not compassionate to me. Sending pregnant women back to these areas to be rained, killed and abused is not a compassionate nation and so im trying to assess whether you pay smugglers and put themselves at risk in a dangerous journey is not compassionate either. And lets talk about those. Just a minute. Mr. Secretary, shes still talking. Let her finish and youll get your chance to respond. Mr. Secretary, lets talk about those cartels. In a press conference yesterday acting cbp commissioner reacted mexican cartels could teach a Business Class at harvard. These are the same cartels at at the border where your agency is sending tens of thousands of Asylum Seekers to wait for weeks, maybe months. Cartel members came to a shelter in a city where your agency has returned 10,000 Asylum Seekers. They demanded the minister in charge of the shelter turn over cubans for ransom. When he refused, do you know what happened . The cartels kidnapped him. That pastor has not been seen or heard of since then. Have you heard of this incident with the pastor . I have not heard of that incident. Okay. Well, in september i. C. E. Reported how many numerous people are subjected to mpp have been delivered to the hands of these very dangerous cartels. We at least can agree are very dangerous, just miles away from their forcibly returned by cbp officers. One migrant described how the mexican immigration officers transporting them turned them directly over to the cartels. Are you aware that mexican officials are turning these people directly over to these very dangerous cartels . Are you aware of that . Im not aware of any verified incident where that occurred. Its clear to they that the mpp program is creating a Business Opportunity for cartels who now have tens of thousands of Vulnerable People and desperate people who are being exploited. Its unbelievable to me that we believe that this is okay, that because its not happening on u. S. Soil that it is just okay. But as my colleague says, its on us. And one day we will have to go to heaven and go face those who judge us and we will have to live with the decision on what we did and whether we stood up for human rights, whether we let them happen under our watch. And i have to tell you, it is heart breaking that this country is closing the door on people who are fleeing violence and sending them back to dangerous places that have a level four threat where even u. S. Citizens are told not to go. With that i yield back. Gentle lady yields back. Chair recognizes gentle lady from new york, miss rice, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I too want to join my colleagues in thanking you for your service. And wish you luck on your future endeavors. There have been several reports that President Trump is considering appointing acting uscis director Ken Cuccinelli or mark morgan even though the justice Departments Office of Legal Counsel have determined they are uneligible. Are you aware of that . So, im not going to discuss any predecisional personnel efforts but i will note the administration will follow the law in naming a successor for the department of Homeland Security. Im glad to hear that inspect in your final hours as acting secretary, do you have any plans to change the current line of succession at dhs . Again, im not going to discuss any predecisional personnel actions. Im just asking if you are planning on doing that. Theres only 24 hours left. I have no present plans to do that. Have you discussed nominating someone to be the assistant secretary of mass of destruction with the president . I have not. Have you spoken to anyone in the administration about that . Again, im not going to discuss predecisional personnel matters. I was just you said you havent discussed it with the president. Have you discussed that specific thing with anyone in the administration . Im not going to discuss predecisional personnel matters. Last week facebook announced it removed russianbacked accounts to attack President Trump and joe biden. Multiple reports including the 2017 Intelligence Community assessment, special counsel Robert Muellers investigation, and a bipartisan report released earlier this month from the Senate Intelligence committee have all confirmed that russia attempted to interfere in the 2016 election and will do so again in 2020. Do you accept that that conclusion, mr. Mcaleenan . Yes. Our entities is leading that effort along with our intelligence and analysis, drukter and others are focused on threats posed to our elections including from russia. Mr. Wray, do you agree with those conclusions . We believe russia we assess russia continues to have designs on interfering and influencing our electoral system. And have either of you spoken with President Trump or anyone in the administration about russia and what theyre planning on doing in the 2020 election . Well, identify had, along with others, numerous meetings with folks in the white house, including the president on Election Security and on the threats they face. And do they do you conclude they appreciate russias interference in 2016 and the likelihood theyre doing it now to affect the 2020 election . Yes or no. You dont have to tell me who you spoke to. Do you have confidence there are there is someone in the administration that appreciates that . Let me say, it is Crystal Clear, i think, to all of us involved in protecting our elections, fbi and i dont want to speak for the other agencies, but from all my interaction from the other partners is Crystal Clear this is a top priority we take very seriously and throw every tool in the tool box against. Thank you. So i just want to make reference to an article that literally just posted on the new york times. I understand some peoples feelings about the new york time times. Lets just accept for a fact that what im going to talk about is actually fact. Russia has been testing new disinformation tactics in an enormous Facebook Campaign in parts of africa as part of an evolution of its manipulation techniques ahead of the 2020 president ial election. The campaign underlines how russia is continuing to aggressively try different disinformation techniques, even as it has come under scrutiny for its online interference methods by spreading the use of its tactics to a region less closely monitored than the United States and europe. It said it was highly likely russian groups were using the same model of working what they do in africa is actually work with local people so that it wasnt immediately detectable these were russianbacked accounts. So the russian groups have already started using that model of working with locals right here in the United States to post inflammatory messages on facebook, and by employing those locals, the russians didnt need to set up the fake accounts as they have done in the past or create accounts that originated in russia, which is making it easier to side step being noticed. This is just an enormous, enormous problem. Director wray, were you aware of this using local people, not just in africa, and, it was disinformation of being critical about various american and french policies, but theyre doing that now in anticipation of the 2020 election. Can you tell me, are you able to address this . Are you finding facebook and other social media platforms helpful . If you could just expound on that. Sure. Obviously, i havent read the article you mentioned and have i to be a little careful about what i can say that i know through other sourceses but im generally aware of the phenomenon or tactic, if you will, that youre describing. I would say that we expect the russians will and already have continued to up their game from what they did in 2016. Of course, we upped our game, too. In particular you mentioned facebook. Weve worked very closely with a lot of the social media companies. Thats one of the big steps forward that happened in the midterms and that has continued right up to this day, is a lot of engagement with those companies to underscore to them that they bear, they bear a significant responsibility in this area and there are are a lot of things they can do under their terms of use, terms of service that would be harder for anybody in the government to do like a country like ours. Weve made a lot of progress. Theres a lot more sharing of information back and forth, getting synergies from working together. Theres still progress to be made. Were going to need to keep the pressure on. I think the bar is going to keep going up. You pointed to a good example of that. I would like to continue this conversation with you offline, if thats possible. I want to thank you for being here. I think we can agree this issue of Election Security is not a political issue. We are talking about saving democracy as we know it. And i know all of you gentlemen, i think i can speak for you in saying i know and im grateful that you appreciate that fact, too. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. The gentle lady yields back. Chair recognizes the gentleman from mississippi, mr. Guest, for five minutes. I want to thank you you and your staff for visiting mississippi. In august i had a chance to visit with you as yall were conducting field hearings there. A meeting with members of the community about working together, the private sector, public sector, to see that we are making and creating a great place to live and worship and raise a family. I want to thank you for that visit. And more importantly, thank you for your service to our country. Earlier this month President Trump signed into law House Resolution 1590, a bill that was authored by my office, the terrorist and foreign fighter travel act. This law would require your successor to develop an exercise that evaluating the effectiveness of our nations ability to identify and deter travel deter terrorists before they travel through our state and into our states and into our nation. My question is, do you believe that bills such as 1590, bills that create exercises are helpful for the department of Homeland Security so that we are able to identify, close gaps and so that congress is better able to determine the necessary weaknesses within our system . Certainly. I think its the kind of activity we undertake really every day to make sure there are no vulnerabilities and gaps between our foreign agencies, foreign partners and were applying that at every opportunity to identify a potential threat, trying to enter the United States or even head towards us through our foreign partner nations borders. So i do think being very focused on it and highlighting it to exercise those kablts is a valuable approach. And youve testified several times before this committee and before other committees in congress, weve talked a great deal about southwest border apprehensions, i believe in physical year 19 its reached nearly 1 million apprehensions. Do you believe that Illegal Immigrants are encouraged by loopholes in our immigration laws to make the dangerous journey and to try to cross the border illegally . I dont think theres any question about that. We had 977,000 crossings. Were in our fifth month here in october of 15 to 20 reduction month over month. And thats because weve been able through International Partnerships to address some vulnerabilities presented by those loopholes. The number one being if you bring a child with you, you could be released into the u. S. Thats why we had that crisis in the spring. We asked congress to address that in november of 2017. January of 2018 and throughout my tenure as cpb commissioner. Congress has not acted on those vulnerabilitie vulnerabilities. Weve been partnering with using existing framework to try to create the ability to get immigration results elsewhere in the system since we cant do it here in the u. S. Mr. Secretary, what do we need to do as congress to close these loopholes . We asked for three very specific legislative changes that would have addressed the drivers of this crisis before it occurred. One is the ability to keep Families Together in an appropriate setting through an immigration proceeding. Thats what the Prior Administration was able to do at the end of 2014 crisis, direct court and the ninth circuit took that away from us in 2019 and we havent had that authority. We asked for congress to reestablish it. Were trying to pursue is it by regulation also held up in the courts. Secondly we asked for the ability to treat unaccompanied children coming from noncontiguous countries the same way we do with canada and mexico and provide them access to protections from their home countries so they dont make this dangerous journey. But if they do have the ability to repat rate them so theyre not incentivized to try. We asked congress to address the vurer inability in our asylum system and the huge gap between Immigration Judges where only 10 to 20 are getting affirmative asylum recognition but at the border, 80 plus have been allowed to proceed with their cases that could take five to seven years while theyre released in the u. S. Those are the three changes in law weve asked for consistently for over two years. If congress were to act and implement the request that youve made, what impact do you believe it would have upon what were seeing as far as a humanitarian crisis along our southwest border. I think it would be provide us the ability to have integrity in the system here in the United States and not rely solely on foreign partnerships to address the loophole in our law that caused the crisis. This may be your last time as acting secretary to address this committee in this segment. Is there anything you would like to leave with us as Homeland Security, anything you see moving forward we need to address and prioritize as members of congress that would be able to keep the American Public safe . I think weve seen a lot of evidence of nonpartisan, bipartisan discussion on critical threats facing our country. You heard all four panelists outline the same three to five top concerns were facing, but weve had important dialogues, i think, on some emerging aspects that will be challenging in the future. Things like foreign influence, things like cryptocurrency. Those are conversations we need to have with congress in a bipartisan basis and come up with solutions. This committee is properly placed to support those dialogues. Thank you for your service. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The gentleman yields back. Chair recognize it is gentle lady from illinois, miss underwood, for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to begin by thanking the department and agencies represented here today and our entire Intelligence Community. In addition to protecting us from unseen threats, your continued work contributed to the Successful Operation this weekend that killed isis leader Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi. Im really grateful for your diligence, commitment to the mission. Director wray, you said when it comes to foreign interference in american elections, 2018 were, quote, a dress rehearsal for the beg show in 2020. The 2019 worldwide assessment threat we expect our adversaries to refine their capabilities and add new tactics as they learn from each others experiences suggesting Threat Landscape could look very different in 2020 and future elections. So, sir, as much as you can share in this public setting, can you detail what those new tactics might be and increasingly sophisticated capabilities that our adversaries are developing . Well, i think you anticipated part of what im going to say which is most of what i would say in response to that question cant be done in an open setting. I will say that, as ive mentioned in response to congresswoman rishgs some of the things the russians have tried in other countries we expect them to try to do here as well. Its pretty common to test it out in other jurisdictions. Thankfully we dont have elections every year. So that gives us a little time to plan ahead. Certainly, technological tools keep evolving so their ability to come up with different kinds of false personas, the trolless, the bots, all those things become more vexing and more challenging. Which puts the premium on the point i was making before about our working with on the foreign influence side, working with the soernl media companies, in particular, to really get them to keep upping their game as part of the defense. The 2019 worldwide assessment says north korea, china, and iran have the ability to carry out a sophisticated cyber attack on our elections. We know they have the capabilities. In addition to that, which you say these countries have the motivation or the intent to attack our elections. I want to be a little careful what i can say in this setting but i dont think we have seen intention by those other three countries to attack election infrastructu infrastructure. That doesnt mean theyre not looking carefully at what the russians attempted to do and learn lessons from that, but all those countries in different ways are clearly interested in engaging in maligned foreign influence. Right. Difference from interference in election infrastructure. They have different ways of going about it but they take different pages out of each others playbook. Are you worried about copycats from smaller actors . Absolutely. Cyber actors and where that becomes particularly challenging is one of the phenomena we see in the cyber crime arena these days is what we call the blended threat which is where nation state actors essentially hire cyber mercenaries. You reduced to be able to separate the world into cyber criminals and nation states. If you see what might be a cyber criminal actor, he could be acting on his own for financial benefit or for his own whims or he could be hired by some nation state. Thank you. Mr. Mcaleenan, earlier this month this committee had a field hearing on Election Security in my district in Northern Illinois and during the hearing state and local Election Officials spoke so highly of their work with senior Cyber Security adviser matthew matter son. They coordinate with mr mr. Matterson to prepare and respond to emerging threats in our election infrastructure and they testified this coordination was incredibly helpful and valuable. What can congress do to expand their resources in this area as we prepare for growing threats in 2020 and beyond . Thank you, congresswoman, for that feedback. Mr. Masterson and a tremendous professional and well regarded in the field. I had a chance to speak with state and local Election Officials in illinois a few months ago. I had the same sense of the partnership. What can we do to expand it . We want to increase our presence. Conveying the capabilities to support counties, townships, that are running elections nationwide. We would like to be out and present in more places. Its that direct interaction when you have a partner you know that has that expertise that can really change your capabilities and your readiness. Thats a key area. Awesome. Im about out of time. I wanted to talk about domestic terrorism so were going to send out questions. I know this is your last day, sir, but i hope the department would respond. Our committee is continuing to explore how we can protect our country from these emerging threats and appreciate your ongoing work in that area. Thank you so much. I yield back. Thank you very much. Would the gentle lady want to mention the report you were trying to fijd . Thank you so much, sir. We had an opportunity to get a briefing from an fbi briefer, he came in wednesday and the classified came in this week. In response they mentioned on capnet there would be weekly reports about social media findings taken from the ic and distributed to state and local partners and it would be available to us each week. We attempted to log in and track what the russians are doing in real time. Its my understanding that report is being developed somewhere between your agencies. We do not have access to that. Im a little concerned, mr. Wray, because if that report is developed, we would like to see it. If its not, worried, perhaps, the briefer was not completely truthful in his update. Well, i think we were promised access to what we thought was a report that had been generally produced on a regular basis. Well get to you in writing what that is because vice chairwoman went down to look for it and it wasnt there. If i can get the information from your staff, ill be happy to have my staff drill into it and figure out whats going on there. Chair recognizes the gentleman from louisiana for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ill start with you, mr mr. Mcaleenan. Let me ask you about the parole directive. Is it still in effect and in force . Im sorry. The significant benefit parole directive . No, the one with ice detainees about parole or holding them. My specific concern is the new orleans i. C. E. Office, the field office, that has released, i think last year, not one person. This year they still keep about 98 of the people. Im asking you, is that parole directive still in force . Im not aware of any policy changes at the National Level for i. C. E. Making determinations on parole. A variety of different categories, whether people arrive at a port of entry, between ports of entry, whether its interior enforcement action, whether its mandatory detention context under congressional well, lets just go to a specific part where they determine whether the persons a flight risk. Whether they have substantial connection to the community. Whether they have family that are u. S. Citizens. Its just amazing to me that no one in a particular field office in a whole year had any substantial ties to the community that they were not determined to be not released pending their hearing. So does that stand out to you, 100 or 90 of people being held . I would have to follow up with i. C. E. And the acting director on that question. Im not aware of different approach by field offices because it is a national policy. Let me just make this as a formal question and you can pass it off to whoever you deep necessary that i would like an analysis of the new orleans field office, how many people were granted parole over the last three years and the different categories of why they were not granted. Also, do you remember the case of yuel lil. He was very sick. He was housed in louisiana and mississippi. We were discussing his medical treatment and we realized that theres a language barrier many times for the people that we are holding in our custody and care. And that he refused treatment but he didnt understand what he was doing so that was a big question for us. Then we also asked to have a specific conversation with you, the chairman and i. In the meantime, you all deported him. And my question would be, one, did you know about it . Two, if you did, why would you all deport him when the chairman and i were asking a specific meeting about his status and whereabouts . Im personally not aware of the details of this case and removing him while the chairman asked about the case. Id be happy to go over the timeline and get you any information i can about that Decision Making and process. Would you please do that. On a different note, and i would appreciate a can dit answer, if you could. Our tsa offices play an incredible part in securing our country and our airports, especially in new orleans where they stopped a guy trying to bored a plane. One officer was shot, one was stabbed, i believe, and do you think its time do you think were paying them what theyre worth . I do think the pay structure for our tsos has to be looked at. We want to maintain that kadcad that expertise. I had a chance to meet the team in new orleans involved in that incident and were extraordinarily proud of the work they do. Do you have a suggestion on what it should look like . I do have a referral because our acting deputy secretary is working intimately on this issue and we can get you the exact details on our recommended path forward for tso pay. If you could get that to the chairman, that would be helpful. With the last remaining seconds. Director wray, you and i talked several times about the term black identity extremists. Over the last couple of weeks we were alerted about something called iron fist. Is that an ongoing does it exist, one . And, two, is it still ongoing . And our information tells us it was to target individuals classified as black identity extremists. Well, im not familiar with the name that you just used so i cant engage specifically on that question. I will say, as i think we discussed before, we have moved away from that categorization. I will add, as i think i mentioned to you in one of our earlier conversations, and this is very important to me personally, we do not open investigations into anyone on the domestic terrorism side unless we have, one, credible evidence of a crime. Two, credible evidence of a threat of violence and, three, in furtherance of an ideology. We dont have those three things, theres no investigation. We dont investigate ideology, rhetoric, peaceful protests, anything like that. Let me ask unanimous consent to enter into the record october 6, 17 article entitled fbi new terrorist threat, black extremists, and letter from the cbc to director wray asking for a briefing. August 8, 2019 article by the young turks entitled leaked fbi documents reveal bureaus priorities under trump under President Trump. But i will just conclude by asking your commitment to meet with us again to give us an update of where we are, what it looks like, if, in fact, there have been arrests, surveillance, investigations on anybody under the old black identity extremists and what its consumed. I would just ask that you commit to briefing us again on that particular issue. Wed be happy to keep the dialogue going. Thank you. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Without objection entering that into the record. Mr. Mcaleenan, let me join the chorus of people who have thanked you for your service to this department for quite a long time. Youve been a consummate professional. I personally thank you for that. Going forward, the question is, if nobodys appointed by tomorrow, are you prepared to stay on until somebody is appointed . Important question in my letter of resignation, i did offer to the president to ensure a smooth transition and that i want to make sure that happens for the department. So, you are, if asked to stay on, prepared to do it until someone is nominated for your position . I hope to plan for the successor is imminent. If necessary, i will absolutely ensure a smooth transition. Thank you very much. I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony and the members for their questions. The members of the committee may have additional questions for the witnesses. And we ask that you respond expeditiously in writing to those questions. Hearing no further business, the committee stands adjourned. The house has announced its moving forward on the impeachment process against President Trump. Watch cspan3 live today at 3 00 p. M. Eastern as the House Rules Committee presents a Resolution Resolution on how certain committees will continue their investigation. Thursday morning at 9 00 a. M. On cspan, the house will take up the resolution to outline the next steps and including how hearings will be conducted and transferring evidence to the house evidentiary committee, and so read online at cspan. Org or listen live on the free cspan radio app. On friday, the remarks from several 2020 president ial candidates at the Iowa Democratic Party Liberty and justice celebration in des moines. Iowa holds the first caucus on february 3rd. Live coverage begins at 7 30 p. M. On cspan. Friday, President Trump is holding a Campaign Rally for voters and supporters in in tupelo, mississippi. You see the live comments on cspan 2. Sunday, Princeton University professor imani perry is going to talk about racial inequality. My mother came of age in jim crow, alabama, and so my mother lived her youth through a White Nationalist society, and it has come back. And openly officially. Yes, and it has reared and it has reared its head again. The most recent book is breathe, a letter to my sons. Other books include prophets of the hood and forever we stand. You can join us with your phone calls and tweets and email messages. And also joining us sunday is david shulkin, it should not be this hard to serve your country, and recounting the time in the Veterans Affairs and he is joined by the Veterans Affairs ceo jeremy butler. The governments involvement in v. A. Care is the most effective way of honoring our nations commitment to the veterans. That does not mean that veterans should not have the ability to go into the private sector when it is in their best interest or the care is better or the specialized care is better in the v. A. We believe that it should all be available. Watch book tv every weekend on cspan 2. Actor and environmental advocate ted denison wanson was capitol hill to talk about the