Transcripts For CSPAN3 Intelligence National Security Forum Discussion On Challenges ... 20240714

Demay, the founder and cto of hawkeye 360. And hawkeye is an rf Data Analytics company. Tina harrington. Director of cigant at the nro. And Major General john shaw. United States Air Force who is the Deputy Commander of air force Space Command. Im going to have each of them do a short introduction to frame their mission and their priorities. After we hear from them, ill start a couple of rounds of questions. As chuck said, please get your questions ready. Ive already had a few pop up on the ipad. We certainly want to be able to answer your questions from the audience. So, chris, over to you. All right. Thank you, tish. First off, thank you to insa for hosting this incredible and important event. Tish, thanks for leading the panel. Again, chris demay. Im one of the founders and the chief Technology Officers for hawkeye 360. My background is in government. Spent 14 years both with nsa and nro, in fact, my last government boss is on the panel with me today. And from those experiences, i learned quite a bit about government capabilities, but more importantly, i learned a lot about technology. And as i learned about tech kno technology, i was seeking out opportunities to create something new. The panel today will be a bit about opportunity, and the hawkeye 360 story is about opportunity. Its about a convergence of new technologies that enabled our capabili capability. Its about convergence of those technologies with customer interests and Financial Support from a great set of investors. So having the cash, having the interest, having the technology, allowed us to be built. Its been a wonderful experience. We are four years old. We raised over 100 million. Part of the theme i will weave into the conversation today is about how private equity is allowing us to create something that the government can leverage and this isnt just hawkeye. This is all of private industry that is sticking their neck out there to take risks, allowing the government, frankly, to take less risks in leveraging some of those spacebased technologies and capabilities. Hawkeye is an rf Analytics Company as tish mentioned eed were building out a spacebased constellation of small satellites able to detect and giolocate rf coming off the earth. Ill leave it at that for now. I look forward to the questions. Thank you. Okay. Very good, chris. Stacey. Great. Stacey dixon. Deputy director for National Geospacial Intelligence Agency, nga. Been in this role for just over two months though ive been with nga since 2010. And we are we exist to basically show the way. Help the country understand the world. We do this by providing Geospatial Intelligence to policymakers, war fighter, ic, Intelligence Community members who need to understand whats happening in digit places in the world. Frankly, better understand the world, itself. Theres a lot of information about the world whether its gravi gravity, the Magnetic Fields that we need to understand to be able to use the technology that exists today. We help provide that. Without our gps, wed all be lost. We help in providing that as well. More specifically, understanding whats taking place in Different Countries where we may not be able to have other sources, where we may not be able to have eyes on the ground all the time. The overhead constellation really helps us do that. Nga tries to make sure the decisionmakers understand not only whats happening to answer the questions they have but also to provide the information they need which may be different from the questions theyre necessarily asking. We want to help them understand the sensors that are out there, capabilities that are out there to help them complete their missions. I started my career, actually, at the nro, so we have a little bit of an nro nexus here on the panel. A great introduction to the Intelligence Community. Working with nga as a partner. I ended up here a couple years after that. So ill stop there. Thanks, stacey. Tina . So, tina harrington, director of signals acquisition as part of the nro. I have been with the nro since 1993. Which is hard to believe. Im in a variety of positions, first as an Aerospace Corporation then swapping over to government in 2006. Nros mission is basically everything from research and developme development, acquisition, operations, all about building and doing the right thing for intel and military users. We basically work very closely with partners at nsa, nga, and work very closely with air force on making sure we have the right partnerships and we doing the right things on both sides. We are one of our lifebloods is innovation. One of the things i love about whats happened in commercial space is its letting us focus our technologies, things that are just unique to us, but then leveraging so much that is coming out of the commercial world. And the other piece that i find just so exciting watching from 1993 to now the whole space world is that transition with the commercial now really springing more and more to life is how much more interest new professionals coming out of school have in space and thats really driven by a lot of the commercial work thats being done. You know, governments thought of as boring and takes a long time, space kind of fell as part of that, but now you see all these folks that say because of the new launch providers that we have, because of the commercial small satellite business, the ability to do things in schools and in universities to actually launch small satellites, thats been really driven by the commercial market and the ability for us to take advantage of that market thats now coming out to help us field the generation of professionals that we need as we move forward. Terrific, tina. I got a couple of questions coming out of these remarks already. General shaw. Okay. Thanks, tish, thanks to insa for hosting this forum. Im john shaw. Astronomical engineer. Full disclosure, two of my favorite assignments in my career with the National Reconnaissance office so we have a Common Thread there. In case you havent noticed, space as a warfighting domain has been a major theme in our National Security fighting circles for several years now and, you know, to invoke ricks french friend from casablanca, were shocked. Shocked to find the space as a warfighting domain, right . Actually, in truth, i think we shouldnt be surprised. That might be the biggest thing to take away. Why is that . Because space is critical to modern warfare and to modern society and only increasingly so in so many different ways. And yet, it is perceived by potential adversaries to be vulnerable. And so it is only logical and we should not be surprised that, therefore, our Space Capabilities would, therefore, be threatened and that potential adversaries would develop capabilities to threaten those, our Space Capabilities that are so critical. So the big tectonic shift that weve been facing really within the National Security arena but more focused at air force Space Command is how do we make this shift to space as a warfighting domain . The big tectonic plates that youve all been watching, im sure, have been the standup of United States Space Command, a new combatant command, bringing back the old United States Space Command but definitely not the same flavor, which, by the way, was established last week at a rose garden ceremony at the white house and we will cinch the whole thing next monday in Colorado Springs with a ceremony overseen by the chairman where general raymond will take the flag for the new United States Space Command. And that brings its own challenges in its own right and the intelligence support that that command will require and has been a major priority for general raymond as he stands up this new combatant command. The other big tectonic plate that well know more about here in a few weeks is space force. That would be the organized train and equip arm, the service, that would then supply the capabilities and the war fighters to u. S. Space command on the other combatant commands as necessary and weve been looking really hard at what we think that would look like, how do you set up a space force for success . But kind of maybe little bit below the waterline that maybe hasnt gotten a lot of attention, weve been spending a lot of time on, hey, its not just about the organizations, right . What are the capabilities that we need to develop to protect and defend our Space Capabilities . And, perhaps, the most important thing is how do we grow the people to do that . And one component of that Human Capital piece is the intelligence side. Were going to have to grow intelligence professionals for the space domain that support operational and foundational intelligence for potential war that extends to space. And its a major focus for us. A theme ill leave you with, in fact, ill even challenge you to think about this right now, when you think after space and intelligence together, you might be like me, i spent, you know, in my career, i think about intelligence collection in space coming down to the earth. Intelligence from space. We need to think really, really hard now about intelligence for space. Where is that intelligence expertise . The processes. The capabilities we have to understand whats actually happening in the space environment to support general raymond in his capacity at United States Space Command for potential war that makes it into space. So a new kind of focus area for us moving forward. I look forward to the panel and the questions. So, general shaw, let me key off something there. Not a question but a comment. Im really happy to hear you say that coming from the operational side of the house. Those of us who have been in the intelligence profession our entire career, sometimes perfect intelligence is simply assumed. So itst nice s nice to hear yo that you understand we dont know everything we need to know to support operations in space. And so getting that demand signal, understanding the requirements so that those capabilities can be built, is very important. So, thanks for that. Well probably come back to that. Im going to start off with something that was kind of woven throughout all of your comments. And so this is a question for all of you. This is jump ball. All of you can answer, some of you, but theres not an option for none of you. Okay. So, both government and industry now have a wide range of capabilities, whether its launch, whether its building small sats, spacebased communications systems, analytics, there is a lot out there. And what id like to hear from you is what are the implications of an increasing democratization of spacebased capabilities that allows any company or any adversary to operate in space . So, what are the challenges . What are the opportunities for us that are posed by this dynamic . Its exciting. Ill start there. Ill start with the good. All the potential information that will be accessible on demand, anywhere around the world, is very exciting. The creativity thats going to be needed to create the tools that are going to be able to allow us to use this information, to store it more efficiently, those are the things that are a little more daunting. Its a lot of things that were going to have to be watching and monitoring and, you know, we know that we cant expand the number of people to be able to look at everything, so its about really moving toward having that machine human teaming which provides a lot of other new challenges in the way we do things but great opportunity in the way that well be able to allow some of the more routine, some of the more repetitive tasks to be done by a machine so we can leave humans to be able to do the more creative, the more critical thinking, so that part is really exciting to me. I think in addition to sort of the u. S. Commercial and government, the ability to also leverage all the foreign partners, not only for their satellites and sensors but also for their analytics and for their product creation, theres a lot of opportunity out there to really not have to do everything ourselves anymore, to really leverage those alliances and so for us, its exciting but a little scary because of the amount of data that has already started coming and the amount thats going to be coming that we want to have eyes on. I would dare say theres a number of Industry Partners here who would like to help with that. Absolutely. Anyone else want to add on . I want i think its a great opportunity. I go back to i look at what commercial is doing and it really does let us leverage. My prior boss had a saying that she used quite often, which is we should buy what we can and build what we must. Government dollars are always, no matter what it might look like, still limited, and we want to focus that on the things that we and we, alone, need to do, not the things that others can do. Obviously, adversaries are also going to feel things. I would say put that in the same as every other domain we work in and live in. Air domain, adversaries do things. Land domain, adversaries do things. Adversaries, cyber. Space may be new to that domain, but we need to treat it the same way as we treat all the others, understanding what adversaries are doing but were not going to stop them, but we do need to, going back to what general shaw mentioned, understand how we get the intelligence for it like we have done the intelligence for all the other domains. Let me let me suggest an analogy to reframe how we might look at this. I sometime think this gets framed as, hey, a government versus commercial or thats all about the you know, are there places that are going to be friction points and such things . And that could be true, but im sure and ill let the historians actually give you the right answer, somewhere in the 17th, 18th century, im sure the british navy kind of looked around and said, holy cats, look at this empire we have with all this commerce thats suddenly kind of exploded all around the globe that is fueling the british economy, the world british economy. How did the british navy react to that . They probably acted with a little bit of, oh, what do we now need to do in a similar way were responding to the space question, how do we need how do we think about security in this domain, things we hadnt thought about, theres all this. Think theres some optimism about, hey, now the economic engines of the British Empire are driving how we do things in the maritime domain, we can benefit from that as a british navy and well look at that. At the same time, tina alluded to this, theyre probably thinking, what do the dutch and the french doing and what are they learning about trafficking on the in the maritime domain that we dont know about that we need to catch up with because it could be a threat . To or ability to maintain maritime superiority. The economic engines have been unleashed, i hope that they are sustained. Thats a key question. And that we would simply want to leverage the best of that from a government perspective and realize that there are challenges associated with that and providing security in that environment, incentivizing further economic investment, but also being prepared for new threats in that domain. Said by an air force officer. I love the maritime analogy. Chris . So as the industry guy on the panel, its important i say that leveraging those Economic Opportunities is important among u. S. Companies, in particular, in order for the u. S. To maintain their strategic advantage in space. As u. S. Companies have in 2018, there was over 3 billion put into Space Technology companies, and that money is essentially building a platform of not only the launch companies that you mentioned but also ground transports, data transports, Space Technology, that is enabling somebody to have the best and most capable space assets. It is my biased perspective and interest for u. S. Companies to be seen as the best place to go to for those capabilities in order to maintain that strategic advantage, and i feel like the relationship between industry and government is inseparable when it comes to development of that technology in order to to make sure that that technology is used in a in a way thats most beneficial to the u. S. So lets followon to that, chris. You know, necessary, inseparable, how is it going, and ill, again, make it broader, you know, several of you talked about stacey, you, in particular the partnerships that have to occur between your two agencies, with the air force, and the other military services, with industry, with our allies. So, how are we doing in developing those partnerships . Do we have an architecture that easily ingests what industry has to offer, what our International Partners have to offer, and, you know, how are we doing between intel and ops . I mean, ill just make it broad there. Is it working . So ill start with you, chris. Absolutely. Ill say where its working the best, from my perspective, from my space 2. 0 community, is that these Small Companies are being built from the ground up with interoperability and partnerships in mind. Theyre being built from the beginning with the hooks in place so that systems can talk to each other. So that technology can interface and leverage each others parts of the value chain. Ive also seen where the in the case of the u. S. Government, theres been a lot of transparency about what needs exist. Weve been pleased with how forthcoming the governments been about what they want us to do. The signals that theyre most interested in hawkeye be able to detect, for example, but ive also seen in other nations, luxembourg is a great example where the governments have spent a lot of time directly investing into the companies and building up the industry, taking gambles on some of those companies. In the u. S. , its more of the Venture Capital and the Defense Industrial base. You see with boeing acquiring millennium and with lockheed investing in tivak and raytheon investing in hawkeye, theres absolutely a play for the Defense Industrial base to take the role almost on behalf of the government to boost the capabilities of these new companies, but i think in general, the partnerships are working well. I still think things can be done faster and bigger. Faster and bigger. Stacey, tina . I would say, id look at you mentioned partnerships with our allies. We have 70 countries that have sharing agreements. There are a lot of Bilateral Agreements but more importantly, i think, multilateral agreements are growing so people in countries in various regions are coming together pooling data and allowing the region, itself, to really benefit from the knowledge individual countries are creating. So that parts looking great. With all of the different systems, and im thankful that there are Many Companies who are looking at the standards that are out there to be able to create systems and products that will fit into infrastructures and architectures that already exist, the danger in having so many different vendors is that the things will not Work Together and we absolutely need them to be able to Work Together and to be able to ingest in systems that exist now and systems that are able to exist in the future. So, working well now, i think it will continue to work well, but we do have to watch it. Its not guaranteed that everything is going to be able to come together if we dont partner and have the conversations. Not force everyone to do things in a certain way, just make sure people know for it to be able to ingest here, i need this out of it, i need this level of understanding of your geolocation, i need this level of understanding of your resolution that will help us out. So im going to use our commercial spoke that we stood up about two years ago as transition of the track came over. That really, i will say, transitioned how we were thinking within the nro quite a bit. Changed while before we did things more in our as minunt ar research and Development Arm, lo that looked liat how we could bring things in. Really looked at how do we use commercial to offset what i need to do with National Tech means. Weve done they now have done an initial set of different contracts there, looking at full production contracts in about a year with commercial. Were trying to understand how we leverage that now over on the rf Remote Sensing side. Rf analytics. Thank you. I think the other piece that we im going to go to something stacey said earlier because i want to emphasize this, as much as i love the spacecraft, which is where i spent most of my career, the ground, the tc pad, the int interoperabili interoperability, that is something we cannot emphasize enough. The amount of data when you look across all of these different platforms, when you look at things were doing with the air force, Things Air Force is doing alone, we have to get the ground caught up to all of that. We need to be able to make use of all of these big this big data thats coming down. And we need to be able to do it in machines, not with humans. We need to move our humans off of being on top of every pixel that comes down and rather only those things that need a human eye on it. And that is a major shift for all of us. And that is something that we really, really do need our Industrial Partners to help us with. I think the allied partnerships are still very well done and maintained. And then i think within the i. C. , working better with both of our functional managers than ive seen in the past and a lot of that is driven by whats happening in the commercial market. All right. This is where i deploy my role in bringing balance to the force here. Everything you just heard, its all good, it was, it was all about intel space. Everything, every component and every piece of what you heard on that has a counterpart in intel force space. How do we understand whats going on in space . How do we harness partnerships with industry and with allies to get better Space Situational Awareness or were starting to use the term more and more now, space domain awareness, its bigger than Space Situational Awareness. Frankly, in the same i know that stacey and nga struggle very hard with the big data problem of colating everything that can be collected, understand everything thats happening in the triestial spheres, from space, its a big data problem to understand whats going on within the space domain as well. Turns out space is pretty big. Its huge. Its only getting bigger and in many senses both from a cozmological as well as policy. How do we make sure were harnessing all the capabilities to understand that . Just realize there, everything that we all of the challenges that were described with regard to intel from space, from commercial allies and such, have a component in the intel force space arena. Good point. So, all that data out there, and you really are trying to leverage as much as you can from all of your partners. Lets talk about the security and integrity of all of that data. As youre trying to deal with just the amount of it, how are you dealing with the security integrity of it . And, you know, whats at stake if we dont secure that . So data assurance blends over obviously into Mission Assurance. How do you mitigate those threats . You want to go ahead . Please. Industry cant sit here on a panel and say we want to interoperate fully with the u. S. Government without also acknowledging the importance of cybersecurity and taking it seriously. There are absolute threats to space assets, government and commercial, and when youre essentially launching computers into orbit, you have some of the same threats with your satellites that you have with your home pc or workplace server. So, there are standards in place that can be leveraged both by government commercial and they have to be taken seriously. You cant dabble in security. Weve been known to say. So bringing on professionals who are able to implement and enforce policy to protect systems, both on the ground and on orbit, is essential to for q an integral part of the broader government solution. Im i think everyone is very happy to hear that, chris, directly gets at a couple of questions that weve had from the audience. I agree. I think that Companies Need to acknowledge that everyones a target for someone wanting your information. Being able to sort of come forward, proactively talk about the fact what youre doing within cybersecurity will help us as a consumer of the information and the capabilities that youre providing. It doesnt take us off the hook. We still also need to do our own checks, so im hoping that because of all the information thats going to be out there, data collected, that were going to have multiple data points to be able to check b thithings ag. Thats sort of a simple way taking a picture of the same place with two cameras and theyre different, then one of them is wrong. Its an easy way of looking at it. Thats far too simple, but im hoping that the amount of data thats out there is going to help us to be able to determine if something is being manipulated. We have to be aware there are reasons that people not only want to put malware in the systems, they want us not to sew what see whats going on out there. Denial and deception has been around as long as weve been taking pictures of things. People manipulating the photos themselves as form of denial and deception will be happening. Weve seen a lot of it with deepfakes and other facial recognition and other similar technologies. We know it can be done and be done really, really well. We cant pretend thats not a threat and have to figure out different ways to approach it. Were working through that, but great ideas are definitely welcome in this particular environment. I think its only going to get worse, frankly. Ill let me im just going to flavor the discussion with a question because i dont have the answer. As weve been looking at standing up the space force as a separate servicing one of the questions is, what cyber professionals need to be part of that space force . What knowledge, skills, abilities, Core Competencies are needed . We dont have the total answer yes. Its composite. Theres a number of answers, but the one piece that we always come back to is security and defense of our space of our networks that help us operate our Space Capabilities. Im fond of saying that cyber and space are best friends forever. We wont be able to do things in the vast reaches of space with mostly Autonomous Vehicles being operated remotely without the cuttingedge Cyber Capabilities we need to bring to bear and Mission Assurance and cyber assurance are a big component of that. 50iim going to take it a lie different than cyber because cyber is critical, but as a spacecraft developer, supply chain is probably one of my biggest risk areas anymore. The amount of things that have gone offshore, the number of things that we used to do in trusted foundries that are no longer available, that is we worry a lot about cyber. We worry a lot about, you know, data integrity, but supply chain is one of those things that for us and making sure that the folks that we are counting on has the supply chain they need and that folks that might used to build batteries thinking that theres not a big business anymore, not staying in that business, that very much hurts us from that government perspective and that trusted getting in the commercial folks that we would want in because we want to know that theyve got a trusted supply chain as well, so its a little different perspective but it is something that really has with the democratization of space, with space going worldwide, some of those supply chains have not stayed within country or within one of our allied countries and that is one of the things from a security perspective we look at very closely. Which is why there is certainly much more of a focus by the department of defense on that. And we heard from Suzanne White and a couple of the other folks yesterday on the various panels that there is a real focus on supply chain and securing the supply chain, so thats certainly a message to our Industry Partners here on where help is needed. General shaw, youve mentioned this now a couple of times from different perspectives. First, the intel support, and now cyber, and what does that look like. So whos responsible for providing that intelligence to the new Space Command . And is that being developed and how would you assess it at this point . Well, so i think everybody. Its going to ill start with the obvious, right. So u. S. Lets talk about the war fighter. U. S. Space command, general raymond is one of his very first initiatives was to make sure that we engrained in u. S. Space command a very Close Partnership with Intelligence Community. I think its off to a terrific start. And the nexus of that is at the National Space Defense Center at shreiver air force base, in the name of that, its the National Space Defense Center. Not the joint, not a combined its a National Space Defense Center because the Intelligence Community is a vital component of that center and also of the command writ large. I think we now have a j2 and deputy j2 on station in Colorado Springs to help with the standup of u. S. Space command. Its the only complete team we really have. Whether the 3 has a complete team and 2 has a complete team, were trying to get the other pieces there. To give you an idea from a warfighting perspective how that integration is coming together. Thats the warfighting piece. On the intelligence piece general jamison was here yesterday. Talked a little bit about how were growing space professionals. The air force has actually really made some huge changes in just a couple years. It used to be our course for intel officers at good fellow that had that little bit of space flavoring to it, the space course was only two weeks long and actually was it was space and missiles and it was actually mostly about icbms. Just as recently as two years ago. And under general jamisons leadership, it ramped up last year to three weeks with mostly focus on space. As of march of this year, it went to five weeks. And i think its only going to expand and specialize even further with the standup of a separate space force which will have its own space intel professionals that grow from 2nd lieutenant to senior officer or on the enlisted side from one striper up to chief. Were going to have that within a space force. Were going to have were starting to grow that and the rampup has been huge and were going to continue to grow in that. So, do you think we need a National Space Intelligence Agency . I think right now, the so, i am fond of saying that i think the real some of the best experts we have in intel for space are at nasik in the space squadrons there. Every time i go there i am wowed by the things that they understand and are doing. I think we need to just scale that up. Its mostly foundational. It needs to translate into the Operational Intelligence support. So i think for the near to midterm, a space force is probably going to leverage whats there at nasik already. Its possible, possible in the future theres a separate National Space intelligence center. You heard that here first. Possible. Okay. How were postured to deal with the threats through our space supremacy. So, you it requires its a team effort. Right . We have to have capabilities to protect and defend. Otherwise, vulnerable capabilities in orbit, you have to have as i mentioned the space domain awareness to understand whats going on in space and it cant be at a tempo that doesnt operate at the speed of war and have to be able to command and control the entire enterprise in a team and collective fashion. You know, when space when were able to treat space as a benign domain for a fairly brief period in our overall history, i think is what we would point to, you could operate independently. Gps could operate almost completely independent from mil satcom and from missile warning. The only overlap might have been in personnel, geographic locations. Basically efficiency of operation. We cant do that anymore. It now has to be part of a complete integrated enterprise to protect and defend everything we have in space. National Reconnaissance Office is part of that team. So i think the thats what were really focusing on is how do we do this from an enterprise and a command and control perspective that weve never had to do before, how do we integrate those operations . And, by the way, its not just in the space domain, right, it has to inform whats happening in the terrestrial domains. I think i laid out all the terms of the equation. Were just trying to put those in the right order and get the right answer. And i think a lot of the joint exercises that have been done continue to develop the ttps that we need in order to work that problem set. I think the nscc is a critical portion of getting us in line to be able to have those discussions know how we work. This area is the closist ive seen the air force and nro Work Together, figuring out what is each others roles, how we Work Together, what things we take the lead on, what things they take the lead on. In any case, whether its a leader or follower, were working together, were not working at odds with each other. Its actually been a very collaborative environment for us. I think thats going to be critical to being able to stay ahead of the threat. Absolutely critical. And as a citizen, thats exactly what we want to hear. For those threats that originate from the ground, nga definitely has a role in helping to keep an eye on those things and when things are being launched that could impact space, so definitely a Critical Partnership with everyone. Okay. Lets shift back to some more focus on the commercial side of things. Private sectors investing billions when it comes to what theyre doing in Space Capabilities. Again, as ive said, from launch all the way through. And on the leading edge. How does this affect our National Security Space Capabilities . And what i mean by that is, will all of the talent and resources go not all, but predominant, are we seeing a shift, the talent and resources go to profitmaking activities versus National Security . Yeah. So, thats a great question. I dont think its a zerosum game where the top talent has to choose between government or private sector. The win win is when we bolster the talent base by getting people excited about space, and i think were doing a great job of providing really exciting opportunities that have new folks joining the workforce considering space an opportunity or the best opportunity to do something exciting. If i go to the hawkeye employees and ask them what motivates them to come to work, they talk about having a purpose within a welldefined mission, first and foremost. Then they want to work with great people and work with exciting new technology. Nothing i listed there was is inherently industry, right . Everything there is available in government and industry and when government and industry Work Together to produce exciting things, that bolsters the wo workforce that we both get to enjoy. Gets back to that partnering. Yeah. So im going to go from my other hat that i wear which is the cadre lead for nro. Nro never had a workforce until now 3 1 2 years ago. And so we are now we always borrowed our workforce which was great for us because you bring people in, you get new ideas in. As of about 3 1 2 years ago, we stood up the dod cadre to basically have a permanent presence at the nro, folks that stay there. We have just started going out and doing recruitment and other thing things and we do find, again, i go back to because of commercial, young people are really excited about space again. When we go to these recruitment activities, there are a lot of folks that are very interested in getting into the government side in space, and its really its that combination and i think the other piece that we all have to recognize is this generations very different than when we grew up where we might go somewhere, i said i was in the nro since 1993. Theyre going to ebb and flow in and out of both industry and government and we need to be ready for that. And how do we work that so that its good for their career and good for us. And thats, i mean, thats something that is a different model for us, but its a reality in the model we now have to live in. Ive been encouraged, we had 300 interns this year between our various sites, and the number of young people excited about Intelligence Community challenges who come back multiple summers because we get them hooked on working on a really cool problem and theyre like, next summer im going to do this, the summer after that, im going to do this, then many of those end up converting to government, so there are people who are still interested in coming through and working Government Mission and will sacrifice the potential more money that they can make somewhere else for that opportunity and for that experience. But i agree with tina, the future is going to be a lot more in and out. I think thats going to benefit both industry and government. So im excited about that, but its a different model than weve been prepared to work with and we got to how do you bring in people midcareer and bring them up to speed on the types of things they would have learned growing up then allow them to be successful and value the experiences theyve had which are different than some of their colleagues. Definitely will take attention, but the opportunity there is great. And you hit on it, stacey, n on, you know, how do you enable folks to move back and forth, and certainly, the mission is the draw from those in uniform, to government service, to the to private industry. And ng has a program where you deploy some of your folks into industry as well. We do. Which benefits both. I hope to see that expand going forward. It was a hardfought opportunity to get. And we wont talk about the security clearance issue here. To get. And we wont talk about the security clearances issue here. General shaw. Observation and a thought experiment. Observation, not really new, right . I mean, we face this tension in the air force between hiring of the airlines and retaining personnel, or we have seen this hugely in the Cyber Community already. Uhhuh. And i do think i agree with everything that was said here, we have to find ways to incentivize to move back and forth. To share. The thought i would throw out there, imagine you get a call from the pentagon that says we want you to be the head of recruiting for the space force. Are you optimistic about that job or are you optimistic . I think i would be optimistic. I think there are ways i think tina was alluding to that that the younger folks would be excited about that. And there are ways to tap into, hey, yeah there are opportunities maybe in commercial but there are opportunities in the space force to do what nobody has ever done before and to find new cutting edge things that we can do in space. And i think that would be a fun job to have. And so i am not i am not trying to politic for it, by the way. If you agree with me that that probably would be a fun job to have, i think thats optimistic about the talent that we could agree into the Space Community on the government side in the future. Are you actually laying the groundwork to transition to a space force . And are you ready if Congress Pass this is in a couple of weeks . So we see we have 20 minutes left. [ laughter ] tanks, tisch. We we have definitely been on the air force side been doing some initial planning, assuming there would be a space force. Why wouldnt we, right in the we are pretty sure its coming. We dont know how aggressive the language is going to be in terms of timeline and scope, but its coming. We have been laying out the ground work, the problem set, what does this mean . How do you stand up a space force. I think everybody is track right now that it appears that we we do have a space force it will be in the department of the air force, like the marine corps is in the department of navy, at least starltsed that way. If you stand up a space force what parts does it leverage, rely on . What does it have in its own right thats independent . What does that look like . Really what we have been trying to do is lay out the problem set and begin the analysis to answer some of those questions. Recruiting is one of those. My inclinations are that we can probably leverage the physical architecture of the other services across the nation but i think there would be enough interest in the space force and the people we would bring into the space force are comfortable with virtual recruitment. Secondly i think we can follow models from our sister space agencies that are represented here as well as nasa in that regard. And a great question from the audience, will a purported Space National guard be able to draw on private sector space expertise effectively . I do not see why we do not do that . That is the perfect vehicle to be doing just that. General from the Strategic Command tells an interesting story, i may not get the details right but dont quote me quoting the general. I think he was on a trip to Silicon Valley visiting one of the companies out there, and or on a military facility near one of knows and an airman pulls up in a pretty expensive car, airman, how do you afford a car like that. I am a reservist, i work google for my normal job but i am a reservist because i want to be part of this. Thats the best answer. Absolutely we would leverage that, that would be in advantage of the space guard if there were a space guard. Yeah. Great. And really good questions from the audience. So, please, keep them coming. I am going to put mine aside. These are better. Heres a question about foreign sales. If the u. S. Government wants to maintain u. S. Space leadership, what are the nro, air force, and ic in general doing to enable u. S. Private sector Space Companies to market and sell their capabilities to foreign partners and customers . Foreign sales are critical to maintaining u. S. Space companies competitiveness. Ga also has a piece of this and credits i am sure you have a perspective. Anyone want to take a stab at that . As huck eyes entered unchartered territory for the products that we are delivering to our customers we are absolutely engaging with the right folk at state department and customers to ensure that able to and make good decisions when working with international customers. We have worked to ensure a permissive Regulatory Environment that works for us and for the u. S. Government. We are also first and foremost pay fruits and are ensuring that as we think about the product that we are delivering that we have the nations Operational Security in mind first and foremost. That said, that wouldnt be the case with every member of industry. So i think there needs to be consideration for how International Sales are managed. And we stand by the support. I think at the end of the day we dont want to disadvantage u. S. Industry. Right. I mean, obviously there are security concerns that we dont want to disadvantage u. S. Industry. Agreed. If foreign capabilities you dont want to you want to be able to sell anything that they can already get from others in their own countries or in other countries. The question is how much better would you want them to be how much better of a capability would you want them to be able to buy from a u. S. Company than they can get on their own. I dont think u. S. Companies want to be the one whose image is used against u. S. Forces somewhere else. Systems we are slow. We dont want to disadvantage american companies. Certainly true. There is a lot of dialogue that happens to figure out what is the right spot. Because the capabilities are changing so frequently, making sure that we are always reviewing what restrictions we put in place and keeping up with where technology is. So speaking of changing capabilities, up in of the commercial mission has been associated with mapping Foundation Data w. The new sources and analytic capabilities now available, do this is not just for you, stacey, but really, all of you do you feel there are new missions commercial geoant can take on . If so, what might they be . And how can your Industry Partners help . We have a program right now tauld terraline which allows us to have academia, industry partner on what are i would say intelligence problems or ones where there is so much commercial Information Available it doesnt make sense to be focusing on it ourselves. A couple examples include north korea, the coal industry, there are certainly things in the arctic, there are things in the world that we can leverage others, whether buying products, services, analysis and not have to do it on our own because there is so much Information Available and the capabilities that exist in industry are [ no audio ] it is to understand how we can use what is being done in commercial geoant to basically supplement what we need to do with an ntm. Basically looking a of the what is the capabilities, what can they bring to bear, and how do we integrate that within the greater geoant oigs Mission Rather than something thats just done for. Maing. That is a big part of what they are looking at there in this initial study phase going into then the full production phase. Ity really is about how do we use them to help us form our worldwide picture for intelligence. I think i will reference an example of what we have seen in the last decade thats been impressive that may have escaped a lot of attention. And that is the commercial sat com providers have really amped up the game. It isnt simple transresponder operations anymore. Saturday comproviders are managing Global Networks across multiple satellites with users of various band width needs and spot needs. As they manage, they have now developed an awareness that really we have been able to from a government side that we have been kind of lagging. Understanding where a need is, where potential, unintentional interference is coming from, to geolocate that, to move that to continue to provide service. These are things that we want on the government side. I guess the next question is what is the next level of evolution we can leverage in that same vein. Perhaps launch. There is a lot of capability that is being delivered today, being thought of, being developed. And is launch really keeping up . And who should who should take launch to the next level . Should it be the private sector . Will it be the private sector . Should it be the department of defense . Should the Intelligence Community be pushing towards that . Any thoughts there . I think it is a mixture of both. Basically, we still very much for our Main Missions rely on the air force to basically develop those and make sure it is meeting our very stringent requirements. However, we also went off and did what was called i think a tiny rocket contract a few years ago which allows us to go directly to commercial for some of those things that are not, that are more of a class c type of system. And i think a lot of that work has been pushed by the commercial companies wanting things in that price point. And i think government should figure out when and how they can make use of that. Because we dont always have a class a system that i have got to have the most stringent requirements against. I have a whole variety. And if i have got the variety, lets look at the variety of options to get into space. I think the launch industry is probably the best example of commercial driving commercial for a number of those launch providers. You can go out there and print a list of 150 companies that claim mostly on power point that they are going to be launching rockets over the next two years. I have had the privilege of visiting a dozen or so of these new launch providers and seeing what they are building. It is Real Technology built on a Business Plan mostly for supporting, supporting commercial launches and the new commercial constellations. But what they are offering in this smaller class vehicle is responsiveness and the ability to choose the orbit you are getting into, which not only has commercial application but is absolutely useful for response in space for the government. Anyone who has followed the launch discussions from the National Security perspective is there is tensions between launch assurance and making sure we are incentivizing innovation and a new way of doing business. One of general raymonds big pushes over the years has been reenvisioning the lanch launch facilities drsz large launch facilities space port of the future as we have been calling it to make sure it is keeping up with demand as well as Community Set and not being a relic of how we did thing before. Also i would say continuing dialogue with space industry is important. I am chairing a schedule review board where we look at the launches that are going to happen over the next two or three years. Industry attends those. And we talk through okay, how does this work . What are your demands . How are you seeing the schedule . How can we change the way we do operations . So continuing dialogue is important. Yesterday we heard a fair amount about artificial intelligence, whether it is is Machine Learning, deep learning or, you know, really getting all the way to full encompassing uses of artificial intelligence. Can each of you talk about how you are incorporating a. I. , where you have seen strides made already, what are some of the implications from a technology standpoint, from your work force and training standpoint, and where do you need help . Jump ball. So weve got things all the way from our Research Group in asnt just looking at what is the art of the possible . How can i change i keep talking the big data problem. That really is what we now have with all of these sensors in space. And so they are looking at all the way from whats the art of the possible to then our Ground Division really looking at how do we implement today the more the Machine Learning and the big a. I. , the try a. I am in the long term. We are seeing a lot of places we can start taking a human out of the loop. They may still be out of the loop but may not have to be the define every decision going through human because of the learning. And looking back at the research branch, what can i also put in the vehicles also, not just everything in ground. We are looking at it big push on the ground side, obviously, but it is all the way up into space. How do you take advantage of that . It is every from whats the next cutting edge piece to whats table today . I would say probably biggest thing for us is the change in the work force again. So going from, you know, our primary folks that we would hire being mechanical engineers, ander to engineers, because it was all about building the spacecraft and some soft carwas. Now it is about folks who know how to to that but to do it for space. Thats a different skill set than we have had to build before. Thats one of the items that we very much need industry to help us with, too, because our historical Industrial Partners are not necessarily the ones that have that baseline. Some of them did. Some of them are growing i. Some of them by doing investments in Different Companies are growing that end. But thats a big wrar that changes who we are looking to and how we are going the look to in terms of how we hire internally and who we are going to contract me. Tinas perspective is mirrored on the satellite side. Half of our company are made up with Software Developers working with signal machine processing or Data Analytics. We dont need more data. We need more information. So i think commercially the ability to offer information through valuable Machine Learning is something thats inherently unclassified. It is commercial. It is shareable. But it is the Machine Learning on the commercial side as well that enables the delivery of that information. Stacey, where is nga in reading outing in has changed, an analyst doing that versus the machine doing that so that your folks can really spend their time in what i will call that upper right quadrant of searching for the unknown unknowns . We call our initiative triple a, ai, automation, augmentation. A lot of focus on the augmentation side of things. How do you take people out of loop, how do you enable processes where you are going to be happening where you are thinking through what is my intelligence question, if i see this, i want to look at this, so it will tip in queue automatically and get us to a rolt result. Machine learning, there is a lot of potential in nga. It is data. But it was developed for a different purpose. It is not in condition right now to be thrown into a learning. We have to condition the data we have to be able to look forward and predict things versus all the data we are collecting have to go forward with a. I. We are trying to find that balance. I see a lot of promise in moving beyond the known behaviors at a known location. There is a lot of automation there. Getting to the point where we are not sure what is happening or where it is happening there will be a progression. Machine learning is going to help us move in that direction. We have work to do and skill sets we have to get in on the Data Architecture side in addition to those who really understand Machine Learning. We are making strides there and into data science and software development. But there are pieces of the puzzle that arent in place yet that will enable us to then move forward. So a couple first an observation. I think probably some of the most impressive robots that we have ever built have been had the interplanetary explorers. It is not easy to land a rover on mars and have it operate, mostly in autonomous mode. Thats in the past, interesting to look at that. When a space force stands up, it is going to be around for a long time. And its ultimate destiny is going to be providing security and projecting power for increasingly vast send us, from gentlemenio synchro nows to siz learner and beyond. All the means with tie fighters and whatever, we are not doing that with humans in space any time soon. It is going to be done, the way we have already seen exploration done it is going to be done with machines. It is not going to be done not at the speed of war. When you put all of those terms together in an equation i cant get to a solution that tells me it hags to be deny by cutting edge autonomy and artificial intelligence. A. I. And Space Science are best friends forever. I think so as well. There have been a number of questions on agile acquisitions why would industry continue work with the government, all of the red tape, et cetera, et cetera. Let me try to boil it down. Chris, what are commercial industrys biggest hurdles, red tape, et cetera, when dealing with the u. S. Government . So thats your question. For the rest of the panel, what are your agencies doing, and give me a couple of specifics, what are you doing to make it easier for commercial industry to work with you so that sear everyone is more effective in providing what the war fighter needs. Sure, first and foremost if a Company Wants to play with the u. S. Government they have to be sensitive to the fiscal timelines, right . Ensuring that we are not an afterthought from a budget perspective, lest we get left behind as those budget cycles things are planned multiple years in advance. Some of the things we believe we would play well in are difficult for us to prime or submit responses to given the level of effort associated with even putting together the documentation required for consideration. To that end we find partners, we find big brothers to bring us along for some of those opportunities. We find ways around it. Are other transactional authorities being used . And are they helping the ota mechanism . We are looking at some of those opportunities, they are absolutely more promising than traditional techniques. I will leave it at that. Okay. I kind of interrupteds you. Anything else. No, you got it. We are looking at what tools that we have such as otas that we can use more readily. Lookinged a brot agency announcements, things we havent traditionally done a lot with that are easier for industry to interact. They are not perfect and not as fast as people want us to go. We are looking at our acquisition aeligibility both as an agency and the Intelligence Community. We know we need to do better. Just a little patience. We are trying to change. Well, and i would say, be open to suggestions from our Industry Partners. Absolutely. I am going to jump on the so we are trying to use more of the baas quite a bit more than we used to. It used to be very much just our research and Development Arm that would use those. We are looking at how we can use those more in what i will say the big fine suppose rather than it always being just for research and developments that we can got out easier that day. We are looking at what things we can take advantage from the ota but also from some of the changes that they have done within d, and i for doing erds are what they are called but doing shorter timelines, having much quicker authorities to get through. We are looking at what are those things that are already out there that we can take a hold of. Also understanding where the stumbling blocks still remains so that we can bring those up as well. Very much, yes, it is still going to have red tape. We are trying to figure out what red tape we can get rid of or make sure that it is not such a hurdle. I will just quickly mention two thing that we are doing. Lieutenant general j. T. Thompson at space and Missile Systems center has tried to reorient how smc brings in nontraditional Industry Partners. And he started something i think many of you are probably family with, the Space Enterprise consort yum that has now i think exceeded 200 companies involved. It is all centered on the ota mechanism to award contracts quickly and kick start a lot of potential efforts. I will also mention that the air force has been doing a number of what we call pitch days, frying to bring in, again, up owe rate issive Small Companies to answer air force needs. Inside a face centered air force pitch day planned for the first week of november in san francisco. And that will be our we are looking forward to that to see what can come out of that opportunity. Yeah, i think there is some real excitement building around those. So i think we are out of time oh, a big stop sign. We are out of time. Thank you all so much. Thanks for really actually answering the questions. And a big thanks to the audience for all the questions that you forwarded. Big round of applause. [ applause ] week knights this week we are featuring American History tv programs as a preview of whats available every weekend on cspan3. Tonight, gare adelman of the American Battlefield trust covers the whole civil war in 56 minutes. This talk kicks off a night of programs from a Gettysburg Heritage Center sim pose up. You can watch tonight beginning at 8 00 eastern here on cspan3. Enjoy American History tv this week and every weekend on cspan3 n. His first public remarks since leaving his post as National Security adviser john bolton discussed u. S. North korea relations at an event here in washington. You can see that tonight starting at 8 00 eastern on cspan. Tonight on the communicators marsh blackburn on Chinas Huawei company in the u. S. , antitrust issues, and regulating big tech. Some of these social media platforms that are beginning to deliberate news and have a news feed, individuals want the see them actually have a news director. Tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan2. We continue our look at challenges facing the u. S. Intelligence community. This discussion focused on Cyber Security threats and how prepared the u. S. Is going into the 2020 elections. The Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association and the intelligence and National Security alliance are hosts of this summit. [ applause ] well, thank you. Thank you all for coming here. We are acutely aware that we are the first session after you have come back from lunch. We will try to keep you awake and lively as well as we can. We have a terrific group for this discussion today. To my leimmediate left your rig isnd comaer Steven Fogerty of the United States army cyber command. Rick howard, old friend, key Security Officer at palo alto networks. Jeannette mantra, the assistant director for Cyber Security at the department of Homeland Security and of course is its still relatively new agency sissa. And Tanya Ugoretz the deputy direct for cyber at the fbi. This should be a great discussion. Tonya, let me start with you and