Professor emeritus of history at Indiana University. Hes an awardwinning teacher and the author of many books including eli lilly, lynching in the heartland. Race and memory in america. And slinging doughnuts for the boys and American Woman in world war ii. His most recent book is hoosiers, a new history of indiana, which is on display outside. For many years, he coedited the Indiana University press series midwestern history and culture, which included a book he edited entitled comparative histories of the midwestern states. Jim says hes very proud, in a modest hoosier way that the midwest Mystery Association bestowed on him the Frederick Jackson turner Lifetime Achievement award. I have known jim many years, is many years, since i was a student at Indiana University. Ill testify that he has solid midwestern values, unfailing kindness, decency, unflagging work ethic and solid common sense. Jim represents the best of what it means to be midwestern, but he has never romanticized midwestern history. We pride ourselves on being nice, but we dont always live up to that ideal. Today, jim will be speaking on a darker side of the midwestern past. He is going to be talking about, who is an american . The rise and fall of the ku klux klan in the midwest. [applause] thank you, nicole. Thank you all for coming out this morning and listening to a subject that may not be as bright as it is outside but a subject that i think is important. I do want to thank grand valley state university, grace whitney, scott st. Louis, the staff, the leaders of our midwestern history association. Ted france, sarah, john, and many others, who make this organization what its become in five short years. I state that with deep hope and optimism that that trajectory will continue to move upwards in the coming years. In a very quick and dirty way for which i will apologize only this once, i want to talk to you about the ku klux klan, convince you the klan story is relevant and important, convince you to incorporate the story or part of the story into the history that you do, whatever form of history you do. Its an old, old story, and yet i want to assert that its a new story. A story that connects to the center of our nations history. This is not a story for the margin, for the side bar. This is a story that goes in the center of our textbook. Our minds and hearts. As we think about the question, who is an american . A story that paraded proudly down pennsylvania avenue. Its a story that spans a century of time, from 1920 to recent events in charlottesville, and elsewhere. A story of White Supremacists to be sure but much, much more than White Supremacists. We have advantages today in telling this story that we did not have a generation or two ago. There is new scholarship. Lots of good new scholarship on the klan. Yet, after several weeks of doing ache cursory investigation of the scholarship in the midwest a cursory investigation of the scholarship in the midwest, i have to also report that there is not nearly enough scholarship for any of the states, the communities, or the region as a whole. There are so many areas of opportunity to plow through the sources and create your own stories about the klan, and i want to convince to you try to do that. Among the advantages that we have, in addition to pretty good foundations of secondary scholarship, are primary sources. The newly digitized sources, particularly of newspapers, which those of you who do research from primary sources, you know they are a gem. Folks from my generation are owed reparations for having lifted newspaper volumes and cranking microfilm. I have thousands of hours invested in that. It feels like i am cheating when i go to the digitized newspapers. Wonderful forhey subjects like the klan. I have been focusing mostly on indiana. Its based in indianapolis, but the fiery cross, leading klan newspaper in the north, publishes widely stories from across the midwest and will be useful to anyone. Its completely digitized and searchable. Let me make some key generalizations to spark your interest. These are the words of elmer davis, a distinguished reporter from new york who came out to indiana, his native birthplace, to study the klan in 1924. This is what he concluded. These were marginal people. They were the great unteachables. Now, i want to say after 40 years in the classroom, i want to hope that no one is unteachable. I had a few students who were close to that maybe. [laughter] but were all teachable. I dont agree with davis on that point, this word, but more importantly, most of the midwesterners who joined the klan were not marginal. They were main line, mainstream midwesterners. They were not abnormal. Maybe not even wicked. We now have very good analyses of klan memberships in some locations, and there is a project that we desperately need to have more of. The vocation and the analyses of klan membership lists but we have enough now. To have some idea of who these men with their backs turned to the camera, preparing to be initiated, naturalized into the klan, who they were, what kind of people they were in a socioeconomic way at least. So the question is, who joined . The great midwestern novelist tarkington said it was the rank and file of good, honest people who joined the ku klux klan and thats often the case. Probably mostly the case. These are people of the heartland the friendliest people on earth. The nice people. Good methodists, good lawyers. Good merchants. Lions club members. Church women. Proudly joined the klan. This group posing with their masks down because they are very proud members of the womens ku klux klan. Heres one of the greatest challenges in telling this story. It takes a theologian or some other insight to connect. People and what we would today describe unanimously, i am sure, people. I am sure, people. Evil. Where was the klan popular . Everywhere. Across this country. Certainly in the south but also in the north. In fact there, were probably in the 1920s more klan members in the north than there were in the south. And it was certainly popular in the midwest. In all the midwestern states, in most communities, in those states, and especially so in ohio, indiana, and illinois. This was the heartland of the klan. Heres their definition of themselves. They were americans. They were 100 americans and thats a wonderful figure to introduce to students and others. What does it mean, 100 american compared to only 99 american . Heres their definition. These are the characteristics. Pure white. They use that again in newspaper speeches, propaganda, pure white race. Native born, militantly protestants and aggressively patriotic. These are 100 americans in a protestant country as this minister in des moines told his audience. Militantly protestant. This is the badge, the logo that is worn on the front of the rope of the klan members. It is the cross. It is the red, the drop of blood that christ shed for all. Mainline protestants, methodists, baptists, presbyterians, quakers, who had their churches at real crossroads, in big cities in county courthouse squares where klan members often showed up on a sunday morning, marched to the altar, left a contribution, and ,oined the congregation singing christian soldiers. The klan at rallies and parades always displayed the cross. The burning cross, the symbol of their religious belief. The light of their world. The fire of their hearts. And the american flag, a patriotic flag that flew at all klan events. A religious and patriotic conviction that america was in decline, that there were enemies at the gates, even inside the gates, causing a turning away from that cross and that flag. The klan was brilliant in creating the dichotomy of us and them. Of those people, the others, of defining who the enemy was, and what the enemy was threatening to do. So who is the enemy . The largest most important enemy for the ku klux klan in the midwest were catholics. I want to say that again because thats commonly not understood, and i dont think there is any doubt in the mind of any scholar, certainly in the writing of any scholar on the klan, in the midwestern region, that that is true. The largest enemy in numbers and power and threat were catholics. Many of you will understand this. Many americans today do not understand, have no sense of anticatholicism. Which was deep in the dna of americans from the beginning, down maybe to the 1960 president ial election. A vicious distrust of a Foreign Church led by a foreign pope, goodness gracious, the pope did not even speak english, did he . That was engaged in a conspiracy to undermine basic american values. Not just protestantism but there was a lot of focus in klan action on Public Schools and the threats that parochial schools , catholics offer to the Public School tradition in america. This anticatholicism is everywhere, even in beautiful new suburbs like oak park outside of chicago, where the women organized a ku klux klan event in order to stop the flow of catholics into their lovely middle class neighborhood. Anticatholicism, catholics, the first enemy. And, of course, immigrants, and these are often the same, catholic immigrants, pouring into america, and this of course, is the tail end of the period of the largest, longest, pour of foreign people into the united states. I think i need not tell you, nativism is deep in the american soul. They must be turned aside. These invaders from across the atlantic. Jews were the enemy. This was an example that comes from dearborn, michigan. Henry ford, brilliant innovator, entrepreneur. Antisemite, spreading the word in his newspaper. Africanamericans. Africanamericans were the enemy. Race divided americans in the 1920s. It divided midwesterners in our history from the very beginning down to the present. More than any other line of division in our region. And so africanamericans were certainly the enemy. Maybe not the largest enemy, because there were so many ways to keep black midwesterners in their place before and after the klan, that there wasnt a whole lot of work for the klan to do with this particular enemy. So these are the enemies. Catholics first. Immigrants, jews, africanamericans, us, the good americans. The 100 americans who are going to redeem america from these enemies. What are the issues . Weve got to stop this horde of immigrants coming into our country. Weve got to close the door to them. And that happened. In one of the most significant pieces of National Legislation ever passed, the National Origins quota act of 1924, which created a quota system that allowed folks from northern and western europe to enter in large numbers, larger numbers than those from southern and eastern europe. The lesser people, the darker people, the more catholic people, the more jewish people, are pretty much turned away by this 1924 legislation. It was a Great Success for the klan. The klan pushed it aggressively, and while many forces contributed to its passage, the klan was among them, and taking credit, imperial wizard, the National Leader of the klan, hiram evans, told an indiana audience that now, america has built a stone wall around the nation, so tall, so deep, so strong, that the scum and riffraff of the old world cannot get into our gates. These immigrants, these others were the cause of many problems. I think the largest problem they caused was alcohol. At a time of prohibition. This, too, is a long story. In many midwestern communities, the enforcement of prohibition was the number one policy issue. It had been pushed hard by protestants since the 1840s at least in many parts of the midwest, especially by Protestant Church women concerned about what they saw as the decline of family life. The growing corruption that came with the sale and manufacture of alcohol. All the more unsettling because it was quite clear that the authorities were not adequately enforcing the law of the land and the law of the states, that some people like this swell crowd, i think this is madison, wisconsin, were mocking prohibition. Not just disobeying the law. Prohibition is the number one issue, but there were lots of other signs of moral decline. These flappers. This is something not old but new, in the 1920s. Fueled by booze and new music. It was the music of the jungle, the klan claimed that they were dancing to and listening to, and, of course, back seat sex, the arrival of the auto mobile across the midwest changed lives in so many ways. Including new opportunities for new sins, or old sins in new garb. I love this broadside from the klan in lincoln, nebraska, listing all the problems and challenges. Details,t read all the but you can find this. Many of the images i am presenting this morning, particularly on the sites of our wonderful state and local historical society. You know them all, but we need to shout out our enthusiasm and gratitude to the midwestern state historical societies, from wisconsin to ohio, to nebraska, to iowa, and all the others. Who have, for generations, been gathering the primary sources and now wonderfully digitizing their collection so that anyone, anywhere in the world with computer access, can look at these images and read some of the documents and create your own stories about the klan. So i love this broadside from lincoln, from the historical society. The last issue is petting party, a menace to society. Married men, do your joyriding with your own wives. All this is encouraged by hollywood films, which according to the klan, are made by jews and catholics to corrupt the americans. Hollywood films that would play in small town movie theaters, not just in big city chicago theaters. In darkened theaters, a klan newspaper wrote, couples watch sex, filth, vicious and degrading phases of immorality. What did the klan do to advance the cause . Publicity, persuasion, advocacy. In many traditional ways, just like midwesterners had always done, they had parades, of robed figures. Usually always lead by a marching band. They would gather at state fairgrounds. There is a wonderful subject i hope someone takes up. We have some scholarship on state fairs in the midwest. We know how important they are. Were and are. The klan was there, at the state fair i think in most states. Fair i think in most states. Im not certain but i think it if not most. The bands, this is one of the most famous. Here they are getting ready to march. I love this photograph because, if you can see, in the front is a saxophone player. I think that is a baritone. I had always assumed that the saxophone was the instrument of the devil in the 1920s, but here it is in the klan. Whoever is going to write about klan bands, they need to explain how a saxophone got in this one. Maybe why did not in madison, wisconsin. Why it did not in madison, wisconsin. Parades on holidays such as the fourth of july. Some people can probably identify some of these buildings in grand rapids. Parades with lots of floats, all sorts of messages. Often about saving the Little Red Schoolhouse from catholics. Womenically done by the of the ku klux klan. That is a subject by the way. We know a little bit about women in the claim. So far as i know, no one has yet found a membership list of a womens klan organization. That would be exceedingly valuable. The assumption is that the women were pretty much like the men who joined the klan. Honest midwesterners. Rallies such as this one in madison, wisconsin. Band concerts, lectures, parade around the capital, fireworks. Swearing in of new members. A picnic in Central Illinois with all sorts of entertainment. These were festivals, these were places where people of likeminded sort to get together, to enjoy. The way they had enjoyed before and after, but now with this twist of klan speeches and programs. This ad includes at the bottom the names of the sponsors in gerard, illinois, including the local ford dealership. It tells us as many sources do, that this was a picnic attended not by people abnormal or out of the mainstream, but by the good, honest, godfearing people in this Central Illinois town. The parades had messages. One school, the protestant school. One law, the protestant law. The protestant flagon symbol in flag in etobicoke, kansas. Topeka,bol in kansas. I dont know if you can see the back window of this automobile. You could spend a lot of time when you have these on your own computer. You blow up the images you look at the details. This person in the back looking out the window. You see his or her eyes. Its very sweet. [applause] this is a common klan activity to donate american flags to the schools. To all the schools in the township or the city, to rural schools like this one in ohio. Gathering in their robes to present to the children. This symbol of their america. Robed klanspeople showed up at funerals, weddings, and baptisms. There are a lot of pictures of these events with klan members in robes in our state society collection. These parades and rallies and picnics are more traditional forms of advancing the cause, but the klan was not a traditional organization. In fact, it was very innovative. It was progressive. It was on the cuttingedge of technology in the 1920s. On the cutting edge of salesmanship. This is the decade in which salesmanship became a notable area of expertise. And, propaganda. The klan leadership was very good at this, including the making of their own films to counter the rot coming out of hollywood. This is one of the most widely shown films made by the ku klux klan to present the klans story. The klan produced its own music. 100 american songs, photograph phonograph records made at various studios around the u. S. One of the largest ones was in richmond, indiana, where they recorded dozens of record. At the same time, the studio in richmond recorded a young trumpet player from new orleans, his first recording. It was of course Louis Armstrong. In the same studio. The klan and Louis Armstrong may have passed entering the same door. The klan was an early adopter of radio. The grand dragon, imperial , gave aniram evans address reaching into other midwestern states as far as indiana. Again, sophisticated. Airplanes. As we heard yesterday morning, midwesterners looked up. The klan looked up and overhead at a rally was an airplane, often trailing a cross or flag. And or a flag. Robes and not bedsheets. Klan violence. Heres a tough subject. I want to be very careful with how i talk about it. There was a widespread assumption that the klan was about violence and lynching. First of all, im talking exclusively about the klan in the midwest in the 1920s. Not other places. Godforsaken south urban essays. For goodness sakes. I didnt mean that, did i . It is commonly assumed that the klan was lynching africanamericans just like this still from birth of a nation depicts. It is not true. Again, there is Considerable Research still to be done, but the best scholarship i know and what i have learned in the last few years shows surprisingly little violence on the part of the ku klux klan. I am talking now about documented evidence, the kind that scholars expect to have two draw a conclusion, to make a statement. Years and for many out of her of 50 for anyone who 50show me an offer of me anyone who can show documented case of a klan lynching in indiana. My 50, i still have and i have raised it to 100 for documented evidence. So far, none. Zero. Not in indiana. Im not saying none anywhere else. Some of you may have documented evidence, and i would be happy to know about it. Having said that, violence by the klan was slight, especially compared to common assumptions today. I want to quickly say that the klan did engage in significant levels of threat, of intimidation. After all, part of the reason for the mask and robe is to intimidate people as you march down the main street of grand rapids 1000 strong. To send a message. Part of the reasonable earning a cross on a lawn or in front of a catholic is to send a message. Soaping the screens on the window of a home with the letters kkk sent a message. A significant amount of the influence and power and the ability to keep people who may have known or thought differently quiet rather than stand up came from this intimidation. Was sense of power, which deliberate and aggressively used by sophisticated leaders of the ku klux klan. Violence. Ome in northern indiana, the claimant firebombed the residence of a catholic priest. No one was hurt. One of the most egregious cases of violence comes in Southern Illinois in bloody Williamson County as many of you know where tensions between italians and minors mixed with the ku klux klan to cause some significant violence. So far asse instances i know are the exception rather than the everyday activity of the ku klux klan in the midwest in the 1920s. Rather than physical violence, the clan wisely i think entered politics. The militia called out. N Williamson County the best i can tell you, and i have heard this in other sessions today when others have talked about the midwest is theirs lots of variation in the midwest. Theres dynamism, fluidity. That is certainly true with klan. It is certainly true that the klan was stronger in indiana than other midwestern states. It was probably weaker in these other states at least assed lawshich p prohibiting the wearing of masks in public. Some communities, assed and cities p antimask laws. And there was variation within states. An essential part of the klan story is opposition. It is logical and correct to conclude that the largest opposition to the ku klux klan in the midwest in the 1920s came from catholics, their largest enemies. Larger in numbers and more effectively organize with access to resources to stand up to the klan, and this is the major catholic organized response to the klan, the formation of the aul,can unity league, the produced a Speakers Bureau in the newsletter called, fittingly, tolerance. Tolerance is a fiery read. It might not be true. An interesting read condemning the klan, calling them out, mocking them, and very interestingly, acquiring, stealing membership lists from klan headquarters and theish them in the pages of. Olerance they did that in indianapolis, chicago, and other locations. People stood up to the klan when and where they could, often in very small numbers, too small to do much. But in some larger cities, Jewish Community organization did attempt to respond and some rabbis were very outspoken and opposed the klan. Africanamericans, of course, to me this is a fascinating part of the klans story. In many places, africanamericans in 4 when this was africanamericans switched from the long tradition of voting republican voting democrat for the first time, a foreshadowing of what would become the new Deal Coalition in the 1930s. As important or more important, africanamericans formed branches of the naacp. Some had been formed in the teens. But in the twenties, naacp branches took off across the midwest in response in part to the threat that black midwesterners saw from the. Papers of the naacp from the ku klux klan. As some of you may know, the papers of the naacp are in the library of congress in washington, d. C. , and they are the largest collection in the Manuscript Division and they are wonderful papers. I have been through them for indiana and some other places. I encourage you if you have , interest, i suggest you get to the papers. Get to them and get really into, yet inside an africanamerican community. To see Division Within the africanamerican instance, as in this they debate how to respond to the ku klux klan. Should we put our heads down and go along because it is dangerous to respond . Or should we stand up and speak out . The indianapolis branch, which became very active in the 1920s, they decided to stand up and stand out. They organized some rallies along with jewish and catholic fellow citizens. There is general opposition within some Protestant Churches. The detroit Methodist Church passed a measure against the klan. Many protestant ministers not just joined the klan, it appears they got free membership, but then became speakers, really firemen for the klans locomotive. Some republican elected officials stood up to the ku klux klan and opposed them. Within community leaders, ordinary citizens, the indiana bar association, surprisingly to me, passed a resolution of condemnation. There was some opposition to the press. Not many. Most newspapers, i think certainly in indiana, went along, remained silent, or endorsed the klan. Only a handful actively opposed it. The klan did decline and did go away, rather quickly in retrospect, although not for those living at the time. The death of this woman in 1925, the murder of this woman by this man was the trigger. This is the grand dragon of indiana, the most prominent klan leader in the west. Was trying to build a wide klan Network Beyond his own state. He wound up in prison for the murder of madge oberholtzer. The ku klux klan, not just in indiana, smelled like many days old fish. People ran away from it as a consequence. Its more. This is a tangled story that i dont think has been told very well, the decline of the klan. I think a lot of it came with the success of the klan in solving the problem of immigration like in 1924. We have done that. We dont need to talk about that they are still here and that , problem is going to take care of itself. So we dont need to worry about that, and then perhaps i think there was disappointment, that the klan was never going to live up to its promises. It promised to eradicate alcohol from the land. It promised to enforce the prohibition law. Anyone could see that alcohol was widely and readily obtained across the region. They could see that there were bootleggers as well home brew. Alcohol was flourishing and with this flourish came corruption of all sorts. Kick backs, bribery of city and police officials. I think that caused some klan members to say we have had enough good we are not paying our dues. We are turning away. By the end of the 1920s, the klan had been kicked out of the midwest. I think most midwesterners decided, were just going to forget about it, it is over. By the 1930s, it was embarrassing to think about, that i belonged to the klan, my father, my grandmother belonged, we dont want to talk about that. We will just sweep it under the rug, it will go away. This is a standard way for human beings in america especially to think about our troubled past and to pretend it didnt happen. Not to erase it so much as forget it. A fascinating story , and i dont have much time to talk about this today, but some of you may know this, the way in which we dealt with the memory of the klan since the 1920s, the way that we have or have not acknowledged it in textbooks, school curriculum, museums. It was very controversial. Among the first documented displays of a klan robe was in the Fort Wayne Museum it was 1979, dont quote me. A wonderful little article about that display of a klan robe. How dangerous it was, how much effort it took to put that robe in the museum. So, is the klan dead . Have we seen the end . This is one of my favorite klan images. Not really dead. The biggest revival came following the Civil Rights Movement of the early 1960s. Those demonstrations, actions, responses revived the klan across the region in the late 1960s. But it is a very different klan. This is what causes misunderstanding of the midwest in the 1920s. The klan that reappears in the 1960s and 1970s and beyond is a very klan. They really are unteachable. One of my favorite klan photographs. You may not be able to read the sign guy on the left is carrying. Its nice to be white, he writes on the sign. I spent decades trying to teach students the difference. I have never seen this anywhere else. He spelled the word its. But, it is nice to be white. I often think these are people not to be despised or hated but almost embraced and loved to say, i feel sorry for you, you are so out of touch in the world in which you live. It is a sad klan that returned in the 1960s and 1970s. I am just about finished with a book on the klan, mostly about indiana. The last two chapters are about these fellas. My wife read it and said, why do you have to go on and on about them . So i cut some of it. But they are intriguing. They pull us in. We want to be on the news tonight out of grand rapids, all we have to do is go out and burn a cross. They will have a helicopter i dont know if they have one, but a helicopter overhead and we will get interviewed. If we put on robes and burn a cross. There is something that pulls us into these people. They are very small in numbers, the klan that appears in the midwest in the late 1960s. They are basically powerless and very small in numbers. They show up at events and always there are more Police Officers than klan members, more officers not in uniform probably than klan members. So they are still here. They are different in that their focus has been more on white supremacy, the pure white race, and attacks on africanamerican. Vicious, racist stuff that comes out of their mouths. Not much out of the writing because they dont write much. Bigoted races of the racism of the worst sort. They have added some new conspiracies. In the 1990s, they added the lgbt enemy to the list of what was wrong with america. They have spawned descendents with variations down to charlottesville. This fella in the foreground here is wearing the same insignia that folks in springfield wore in 1924. Among the organizers of the charlottesville rally of 2017 was Matt Heimbach of southern indiana. I have sort of followed him. He has dozens of interviews from all over the world. Heimbach is no rube. He is a college graduate, thank god not in indiana. In maryland, he was a history major. No rube. He requires, others require that we have answers to the question of who is an american . Who are these people marching down pennsylvania avenue . Who are their descendents today . What is our responsibility as citizens and historians . I wont tell you your responsibility because i believe in ideals and that is for you to decide, but i will tell you as a historian we have a responsibility to tell the story, to figure out ways to tell it accurately with documented evidence, to figure out ways to tell it effectively. Not just to other historians. We can get this pretty well pretty quickly, but to the people. This is where the midwest began. This is where our historical societies began and our universities began. We have obligations to the people to tell this story in our in publicp, presentations, like the one in of all places dearborn, michigan, where there is a wonderful presentation of the history of the klan in the henry ford, that great museum. A third grader, one of the four greatest kids in the world, did understand last summer when we looked at this exhibit and maybe couldnt put it into words but could probably get some sense of the importance of believing, of hoping that the moral arc of justice, that it bends toward justice. Thank you very much. [applause] we do have some time for questions. I have been asked if you could come up to the microphone to ask your question also to make your comment. I am protected in all sorts of ways. I am happy to have negative comments, challenging comments, not hostile, but challenging. Thank you. I will not be hostile. I am wondering if you could Say Something about world war i veterans, i dont know if the american legion, i dont know when it was founded, but was it appealing to veterans . Professor madison the question is about veterans in general, and world war i is a precursor to many of the issues i have talked about. Veterans specifically, and it is impossible to generalize, but his question was about the american legion. It was formed by veterans. The headquarters were in indianapolis but the legion is all over the west. Very popular for a lot of reasons. Patriotic reasons. They fought for their country. They wanted to honor their country. Also, in some legion places of gathering, they also wanted to have a beer or a glass of gin. Some of those legion posts provided that. The question of whether the legion members were also klan members is one i dont know the answer to with any precision. I know that the klan, that the legion at its state convention in indiana refused to pass a resolution condemning the klan. A proposal was made to do so, and they refused to pass it as did all the major church denominations. I know that some members of the legion were members of the klan. I know the dean of Indiana University law school, paul mcnett, who became state and National Commander of the american legion, was asked to condemn the klan. He would not say anything publicly. He got elected governor of indiana in 1932 as a consequence of staying silent, i suspect. I dont know. That is a very good question for others to look at. First, hello from an Indiana University graduate. I appreciated a lot of what you said today but i have some questions about white supremacy. In particular, im always struck by this framing of the klan or other hate groups as nice white people who do really reprehensible things because i think that sort of lends us to the argument you started to get to at the end that these human beings should be pitied. I worried that, that pity, seeing that as laughable, it makes it easier for us to turn away from real violence whether it is physical or psychic or verbal that comes from this sort of rhetoric. I dont know, but i wonder if you had any thoughts about this nice white people doing bad things framing of the klan . Professor madison that is a great comment and in fact im going to get a transcript of that and put it in my manuscript. I dont really have a good answer. Ive tried to be careful. Other people have read this manuscript and have tried to help me on this issue. Im just not content as some people are to say oh, the ku klux klan, let them rot in hell. I think that is wrong. I think that is a disservice. I want to state again that my reaction thoughts about the klan of the 1920s is very different than recent events. It was a very different time from our place and we all know that it is unfair to judge an earlier generation by our standards. Im trying very hard to put the klan in the 1920s in the context of their time and place. Very few people in the 1920s had any concept of what we would call multiculturalism diversity. Itr comes up a little bit in the aul, the american unity league. In some of their speeches, they use words that we might call multiculturalism today. But that was very unusual, i think, in the 1920s. This is a real conundrum. I think i tried to tell the story in a way that the that allows the reader of this book, that i hope will be a book soon, to allow the reader to come to her or his conclusions. Thank you so much for a powerful and important talk. Im speaking here as somebody who is a 19thcentury historian, so im trying to jump over that century divide that we are both trying to deal with. Very new this is a discovery, that particularly those three borderlands states, were illinois and indiana, filled with thriving africanamerican farming communities in the 19th century who seemed to be able to hold onto their land and wealth up until the rise of the klan. Just being in these communities, whether western ohio to western wisconsin, the way that the klan a rising these communities and expending massive amounts of energy to terrorize and even physically destroy aspects of those communities. I just wonder how you think our growing awareness of this different way of thinking about race in the world, especially in the midwest, and the rise of the klan, might shape future scholarship in terms of how we understand the rise of the klan. That is amadison long and complicated question. Let me take a few pieces of it. First of all, on the africanamerican rural communities, again, i am allowed to go outside indiana, but i always get a little bit shaky, and in this audience especially because some of you know more about this than i do for your parts of the midwest. In indiana, the communities that i have known and studied, the weaver settlement beach, places ive studied, began to decline before the 1920s for the same reason small towns across the midwest were struggling, because young people voted with their feet and went to cities. To indianapolis, chicago, detroit, where there were other opportunities. Agriculture lessened. They didnt want to live in small towns without all of the stuff big cities. They moved. Big africanamerican communities in the midwest i think a very important and i agree that they are understudied and need to be incorporated into our general understanding of the midwest and america. I think these communities are starting to wither before the 1920s. I know they were being threatened, intimidated, the object of white antipathy for the beginning into the 20th century. But i know of no significant klan violence against any of these africanamerican communities in indiana in the 1920s. Oldtimers that i have entered interviewed talk about threats from the klan to come out and they said, weve got guns, weve got rifles, they could have shot between the eyes of a hooded klansman, too. The klan knew that. They stayed away. I do not know of any instance of the klan or anyone else burning a rural black community in indiana. Certainly, there was intimidation and threats. That is very important. There was segregation and discrimination. That is very important, but the other side of the story, these communities really did build prosperous agriculture economies. They created schools, churches, and in the context of time and place, they thrived. Descendents who come back to these places celebrate a history that is sort of real, that is one of great pride and strength. I think there are positive things to say about these communities and i think we need to pay more attention to them. Am an associate professor of history at antioch. This last saturday, the klan marched in dayton and they pretty much shut down that city. There ended up being nine klan people. I think about 1500 demonstrators, but i think the reason they were able to do that is kind of what you are talking about here. Ubes or they are r scholars, the klan has a history of terror, as a terrorist Organization People know what happened in charlottesville so anytime they come to a place, people have to be prepared for that happening. I do think that what you presented, it seemed as though you were underestimating the whether it isr, accompanied by violence are not. My parents moved to toledo in 1953. The first time they went out to dinner, there was dirt in the salad they were delivered. Mightan might the klan not have been present there, but what i hope is in your book whether the klan was there or , not, there is this smileyfaced racism in the midwest, under this the near of goodness that has to be challenged, and christianity, too. That christianity is not the christianity of the Good Samaritan. Those nine people when we do not do that, that gives power to those nine people shut that city down. That city spent thousands of dollars in preparation. That is terror and that has to be named. [applause] james thank you. I agree 100 with all youve said. I should probably stop there. I agree with all that you said. The question for me is how we go about responding to this. Especially as historians and dollars, what are the tools in our armor that we can best deploy to stand up to this . Im glad you cited christianity. My great hero, kurt vonnegeut, had this statement, i hear all these quotations but i never hear a christian quote the. Eatitudes today where is the Good Samaritan . Yes, these people, you can call them evil if you want, i wont dispute that. You can call them terrorists. I wont dispute that. But we have a set of constitutional ideals that allow and guarantee these fools the right to parade in dayton, ohio. Im very sorry they are doing it. As a threat to american ideals. This is not just about race or just about africanamericans. This is about all americans. All these issues are not about white or black. They are about america and americans. Im sorry, im starting to preach now. My wife is going to cut me off. [laughter] we have to allow them to parade, i think. Bringing them out into the light the hope was thatbringing them out into the light would expose them and they wither away. The numbers you cited, nine klanspeople and 1500 demonstrators. They still have not withered away but they are not winning the battle. I want to echo my appreciation for the previous questions. Some of those questions were on my mind as well. Kind of taking us back into the historical realm of the 1920s. Keep in mind i an 1800s historian. Im interested in exploring further the issue of not just looking at lethal violence, but thinking about violence much more broadly. As terror, psychological, and thinking about trauma. I wonder what sources you see that get at klan survivors trauma from intimidation, from living with constant fear and recognizing this is very difficult. We might be entering the realm of oral history. We dont have the documentation of psychological trauma and intimidation to work with that we might wish. Honoring those the main hat i wear is a scholar of africanAmerican History that present these events did register as very real for them even if they were not to the primary target even if in an historical sense, we see catholics as the main enemy of the klan. To people of color, he didnt feel that way. How is their trauma going to be acknowledged, documented, and researched, and the historical record . Real as it was to them and still is. James another great question and comment full of many, many questions. It is impossible to know what this was like for victims. We have a handful of accounts there are many i know it im. Sure there are many that i dont know. There was a minister who wrote a memoir of what it was like. And how horrible it was. What we dont have much of are oral history interviews. It is too late now. The generation before us lost the chance. Before the 1980s or 1990s, scholars didnt much want to study this. The oral history project in indiana, maybe somebody in iowa or kansas city had a beautiful oral history project on the klan, but not in indiana. That would enable us to talk through oral history sources about what it was like to be on the receiving end of klan intimidation. Intimidation, its the threat and what it means to that individuals family, that is so important and so difficult to get at. Jim, im probably asking you to do some here that as a historian you might not want to do, to reflect on two eras. One of them being the modern. Harry truman said we tend to go through these periods where social factors in the case of the 1920s, immigration, modernization demographic and , social change, in which we mainstream the more evil parts of the american psyche. It bubbles to the surface in ways that it may be tamped down in other periods for me see the better angels of our nature and those other periods. We are in a period now where we have seen a mainstreaming of some of that less than desirable behavior. Do you see analogues between where america was in the 1920s politically and socially and that produced the klan, and where we are today . Certainly, charlottesville. James yes, i do. It is scares me. And no, i dont. Hows that for an historians answer . Yes and no, there are no true false answers. Somebody said history doesnt repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. I think there are enough ryhmes here to make me a little anxious. But these are different times. Morely, i think there are standing up to whatever it is that does not comport with american ideals than there were in the 1920s. , there are more profiles courage, more genuine attentions to american ideals, i think. I hope. My perception is at the present time there is a growing support for white supremacy. In this country. If my perception has any validity, is that a legacy of the klan . James the klan didnt create pure white attitudes or prejudices. They picked up on them. They picked up on scientific racism. Which was flourishing by the 1920s. They packaged it and presented it in a very marketable way to ordinary people in the midwest. That continues. Today, the real dangers come from not the kind of bald statements of 100 pure white americans, i do not think we see that much in responsible circles. We see coded language, activities that are based on some or all with the assumption of a white superiority, white race. But it depends on who you are talking about and where you are talking. Again, the variations are very important and sometimes missed in our anxiety about today and where we are. Greatnion is there is a deal of hope not just in my grandson james but in many Young Americans dont think about issues like race. The way old white men think about them. Times have changed. That is why im going to continue to hope that the moral arc has been bending, far too slowly in my opinion, but bending toward justice. [applause] will now adjourn for our third panel session. Announcer today on American History tv at 5 00 p. M. Eastern, a discussion about shakespeares influence on u. S. Politics at 6 00 on american artifacts, the Norman RockwellMuseum Traveling Exhibit on fdr and the four freedoms. Explore our nation passed on American History tv, every weekend on cspan3. Announcer