Transcripts For CSPAN3 FBI Director Wray Testifies Before Senate Judiciary Committee 20240714

The oversight committee. He address Election Security and fbis response to domestic terrorism and white supremacist violence and other topics are chinese espionage and threats from an official. This is just under three hours. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] come to order we appreciate you coming over director ray we will try to get out of here by 1 00 oclock you have an agency to run and if there is any cleanup we will try to accommodate. Very briefly the oversight hearing comes at an important time even though there is no evidence the russians change the tally of the 2016 election they exceeded their wildest expectations or interfere with the 2016 elections. All of us are very interested in what we can do to make sure this doesnt happen again in 2020 and after what china is doing section 2015 authorities are about to expire to hear from the director what that means to the country with a pfizer warrant investigation we that is coming also media leaks at the fbi. Having said all that it is difficult time for the fbi but lets not let a few bad actors taint a Great Organization so before we start me tell you and those that work under your charge we appreciate what they do without their service day in and day out in the country would be a much dangerous place to live and we will do everything we can to get this budget deal through because sequestration would be a slap in the face senator feinstein. Thank you very much mister chairman and welcome it is great to see you slightly more gray than when we saw you last time there is good reason for that. Welcome. It has been nearly two years since you were confirmed to run the fbi so we have a lot of important topics to cover and during this time democracy and the rule of law have come under attack. Foreign governments have interfered in the United States elections and continue to conduct influence campaigns designed to divide americans along racial, religious and political lines the president has declared he has an absolute right to control the Justice Department and the executive branch is removed from congressional oversight and americans who disagree can go back to where they came from. Over the past two years the president has attacked the fbi describing in tweets as corrupt and full of dirty cops. Also that the fbi is part of the deep state and politically biased against him. It is my view that the claims are false and harmful with the fbis ability to enforce the law and survey show that while morale was high in 2016 it has declined in 2017 after the president fire the director and began publicly attacking the bureau. While the president has claimed the fbi investigation of his campaign possible coordination with russia was started illegally, the Mueller Report confirms there was a legitimate and lawful reason to open the investigation. The Mueller Report explains the fbi started investigating possible coordination between the Trump Campaign and russia. In response to information provided by a Foreign Government shortly after wikileaks started to release documents stolen by russia from the dnc. The Mueller Report further explains in late july 2016 shortly after wikileaks started to release information stolen by russia from the dnc Computers Australia told the fbi months earlier the Trump Campaign advisor George Papadopoulos had told australias top diplomat in britain that russia had dirt on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails and as russia had indicated it could help the Trump Campaign by releasing the stolen and meals on emails to damage candidate clinton and the Mueller Report concluded welcomed, encouraged and expected to benefit electorally from russias efforts. We should be grateful for the work that Law Enforcement does to stop Foreign Governments from interfering in the United States elections. This is especially true now with another president ial election ahead. We know russias efforts are ongoing and other foreign powers will not hesitate to exploit opportunities to interfere in our elections and democracy. You have warned us, director wray that russia is adapting and upping their game and to describe their efforts to meddle in the 2018 midterm elections as quote mac address rehearsal for the big show in 2020. You have also stated quote mac enormous strideshave been made since 2016 to protect our elections. So i ask you to give us a frank assessment today of how prepared we are and in particular at a state and local level to identify and address foreign interference in the 2020 election. Moreover what more needs to be done flex threats to the nation from terrorists, criminals, and Foreign Governments seeking to steal our secrets and undermine our elections and democracy i believe are very real. 37000 men and women of the fbi are on the front lines every day addressing these threats and helping americans be safe. The fbi is not a corrupt institution or a deep state are acting against the president for political purposes so we need to come to gather in a bipartisan fashion to support you and this Institution Even as we conduct important oversight. I am very proud to be supportive of your organization and its mission. Thank you for your leadership and we look forward to hearing your testimony. Before i turn it over to the director just a comment on ms. Feinsteins Opening Statement. The committee will be looking at the counterintelligence investigation on the Trump Campaign and we will call papadopoulos and find out what happened. Even with a pfizer award to abuse with the surveillance by the fbi to make sure we know what we are doing if there are protocols in place to ensure we dont play politics with the la law. Thank you mister chairman and Ranking Member and members of the committee. Cigar the testimony about to give the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Thank you mister chairman Ranking Member and member of the committee for the chance to appear today program originally intended to start with a few comments from my statement from the record with the extraordinary work done by the men and women of the fbi but i want to do something a little different talking what is near and dear to me before i tie it to the many important questions of the committee. As you say senator feinstein i have been on the job just under two years and one of the toughest things of the job is the loss of a Law Enforcement officer. Certainly at the fbi we have experienced our share of loss but the success also depends greatly on the support of our dedicated local Law Enforcement partners who control our neighborhoods, protect our streets all across america and they see that much more clearly now after having visited all 56 of the fifties fbi field offices and also the head from every one of your states. State and local partners serve on the joint Terrorism Task force with force multipliers in the fight against Drug Trafficking, taking down gang gangs, saving kids who have been kidnapped and exploited to help keep americans safe. This gives the fbi a much clearer understanding of the threats across the different communities in the ideas how we can combat them together. Every time i attend and fbi graduation at quantico a significant number are former state and local officers perk i have the privilege to shake their hand and present them with their credentials so that line of duty death is personal to the fbi and me as director. I have a feeling it is personal to a number of you. Since i became director , shortly thereafter i asked my team to let me know if every time an officer is shot and killed in the line of duty in this country and every time it happens i ask for a picture of the officer and read about his or her family and how long they served and then i pick up the phone and call the chief or the sheriff or commissioner and on behalf of the entire fbi extend my support and our condolences. We have made an awful lot of those calls to heart broken in just last month for example i was overseas meeting with foreign counterparts making five of those calls in nine days back to the United States five lost protectors of communities and grieving families and colleagues all in a matter of days. One of the calls i made was to a Sacramento Police department the home of you senator feinstein and senator harris a few weeks ago on june 19 an officer was killed while responding to a domestic disturbance. Twentysix years old, she was only on the job for six months. Another call i made literally only one day later to the home state of senator cornyn and senator cruise from the mission Police Department was killed while trying to catch a guy who threatened his family with a gun and then fled on foot and was 44 years old and had a wife and two kids. These calls never get any easier and just under two years as director i artie had to make condolence calls like that do more than half of the states represented on this committee and i have had to speak some chiefs and stare on the sheriffs more than once per will never forget last september when i called the Mississippi Police force after two of their men were killed. To put that in context a tire force of 30 people but unfortunately we already had two more officers killed just this month what was as an officer from this past thursday. With only a few specific tragic incidents but i cannot express enough this is a powerful to express towns big and small over the country it can happen anywhere, anytime and the level of violence against Law Enforcement doesnt get a lot of National Coverage and i worry often americans dont realize the extent of the problem. Maybe that is understandable because they dont see what i see in my job with a devastating loss in each instance of those left behind in the loss to the fbi and communities, partner communities, partners, who are so critical to our mission. Finally want folks to remember the dangers of this work go beyond dead the criminals. Line of duty death in the instance that we see now from 9 11 First Responders and those that died as a result of their work and countless other examples. And they know our country faces a daunting list of challenges and well be discussing them at this hearing but i want to make sure folks are not forgetting the good work of the people who put everything on the line. It takes an incredibly special person to be willing to put his or her life on the line for a complete stranger. And to get up every morning day after day to do that is extraordinary. We owe it to them into the fallen comrades to do whatever we can to make their work safer and promote understanding and respect for their roles and all americans owe them a profound debt of gratitude. I appreciate the committee extending me the privilege and honor is fbi director to honor their sacrifice with this job and im happy to answer questions. A very good sobering reminder you dont know if you will come home if your spouse or significant other and every time somebody falls in battle we give them appropriate honor a lot of people follow the line of duty. Well done. So lets talk about foreign and domestic threats so thats what we are about at the fbi. Do you have agents. We do. From your point of view is the terrorist threat in afghanistan extinguished to the homeland or those threats alive and well quick. We are dessert about threats in afghanistan and the potential ramifications around the world and here. There is more than before 9 11 like isys. They are in afghanistan as a speak. Is sequestration if that goes back into effect how does that affect your ability to operate . I would use the word devastating and i dont tend to use hyperbole. We at the fbi in a way thats different than other agencies around the government a lot of money goes straight to personnel cost. Our ability to keep people safe would be hampered. So devastating is an accurate description. Section 215 authority is about to expire. Under usa freedom act there are three provisions that are relevant to the fbi set to expire if we dont collectively act. The first, perhaps the most widely used is the Business Records used routinely almost every day under Court Supervision to collect Business Records that which would not be available under National Security. So that is something we use all the time. Also how does that hamper your ability to operate . Counterterrorism and profoundly, counterterrorism and increasingly the cybermission and profoundly. And there are a couple of other authorities. You are hoping with reauthorization. Certainly these are indispensable tools and we look forward to working with congress to make sure we have the ability to keep america safe. Theyre all Court Supervised is subject to extensive oversight. In the 2020 election do you have what you need to provide Election Security from your lane with a Statutory Authority that you need . Our primary focus is the maligned influence peace with that infrastructure piece dhs deals with we feel we have significant resources devoted in the president s budget that is before the Congress Asking for Additional Resources to do that. Any law change that you need to help you . We can always use more tools in the toolbox but i cant think of any of the foreign influence peace right now. What are the chinese up to with Counter Intelligence . Mister chairman there is no country that poses more severe counterintelligence threat to this country right now than china. That is saying a lot. I dont say it lightly second is russia. Whats the difference . China is fighting the generational fight. When i see china, want to be clear but what it is about a country in a variety of ways through the Chinese Government the Chinese Communist party with private sector entities to spill their way up up the economic ladder and as we speak 1000 plus investigations all across the country with attempted theft of intellectual property counter proliferation, almost all leading back to china. It is deep and diverse and wide and vexing with those actors with those techniques and targets so we are working extremely hard to combat but this is a high priority for all of us. Are the russian still trying to interfere in elections . They are intent on to interfere with the elections through foreign influence. Everything we have done against russia has not deterred them enough. But until they stop that they are still doing it. Yes. Some of us are concerned about the 2016 election and the bias and to be fair to the country as a whole with the fisa warrant process. Mister chairman and all my experience with respect to mister horowitz although he is hardhitting he is independent and objective and thorough and professional ive no reason to doubt the integrity or the quality of the investigation he has underway. So is anybody giving a deep dive . Is that part of the charter quick. He could speak for himself but as you know the attorney general is doing a review, and thats part of his job and part of mine to get those questions answered. Director wray, may 16 filed a classaction lawsuit against the department of justice. And with that gender Discrimination Program and then accuses the fbi to allow the Good Old Boy Network from the fbi academy that directly lead to subjective training standards. Is this true . What has been done to recruitment of agencies have they refuse the Academy Training program quick. Because the matter that you refer to is pending litigation i cannot comment directly but what i will tell you is we are firmly committed to diversity and i will also tell you to make significant strides to improve the diversity of our workforce. And those new agent classes has significantly higher female representation in the current workforce. With gender diversity with every field office and those are on par with the targets. We received some of that information in writing spirit of specifics. That is extremely important and the diversity is about the ability to make better decisions for we are all more effective when it is important with the credibility to the public in the matter of respect. Has the fbi reviewed its Training Programs quick. We are taking a look at how things are working at the academy. No changes that i can describe right now but i can get back to your office with more information. I would appreciate it if you would get back to us. With any Training Programs that assure equal treatment of female candidates and strategies. I went through this as mayor of San Francisco is painful but i also know that its right. So i appreciate knowing what is happening. According to the special counsel Mueller Report the fbi embedded personnel with mothers team the purpose was to review the investigation and to send, in writing the intelligence and counterintelligence information to fbi headquarters and field offices the Mueller Report says these summaries contain information that is not included in the Mueller Report itself. Have you reviewed these summaries . I want to be careful not to be discussing the special counsel if he will be testifying tomorrow. My understanding is it is outside of the report. What i would say is the report itself describes or explains there is a number of referrals that have been made to the fbi but beyond that i dont feel comfortable commenting at this point. Have you seen any summaries of information quick. I have seen what has come out of the special counsels report and i will leave it at that. A variety of issues. Congress has not seen them. I dont know for sure exactly what different members of congress have seen. Will you make them available to congress quick. I know we are having engagement with both Intelligence Committees and i can see where things stand with information sharing. The Mueller Investigation confirmed Paul Manafort Trumps Campaign manager spent several years working for the Russian Oligarch and was personally aligned by vladimir putin. Thats in the Mueller Report and mueller uncovered during the president ial campaign, manafort provided and funneled Campaign Strategy and messaging for battleground states of michigan wisconsin pennsylvania and minnesota that is volume one of the Mueller Report. Finally manafort told the special counsel that cormac if one cormac of trump one would use manafort to use whatever interest he had elsewhere. Did the fbi assess the impact of manafort providing this specific and significant Campaign Information to russian intelligence . Senator there was a lot of work done by a huge team of professionals resulting in a 450 page report i want to be careful not to try to gloss or layer on top of that especially with the counsel mueller testifying tomorrow i will leave it there for now. I would ask for a confidential briefing than on the subject. You can say yes or no but i will request it. Did the fbi determine whether any of this information ended up in the hands of the ira quick. Theres nothing i can say on that here senator. My time is almost up. Senator lee. Thank you for being here director wray. Tell me what biggest change you have experienced since you have taken your current position. I appreciate the fact increasingly i find going from one corner of the country to another visiting all feel offices and meeting with Community Partners and private sector partners in every state had increasingly the rest of america they recognize the fbi has more than two investigations over the last two years. In may the attorney general noted there was overreach in connection with the 2016 election and seems to be a few people at the top getting it into their heads that they know better than the American People. We know what happened in part because we have seen Text Messages between fbi investigators showing a strong candidate bias against the candidate trump and they saw the purpose of their investigation as very specific to stop donald trump from become president of the United States. They use their power and im sure you would agree these are troubling reports and it has been an ongoing concern with the bureaus history is one that has a deliberate enter most of its history a successful effort to make sure the reputation precedes it and to make sure that it stays out of politics with Law Enforcement i understand you have made some personal changes in response to what happened so what else are you doing . Other internal practices and procedures you can change or implement to and procedures that you can change or implement to make sure the fbi uses its power appropriately to make sure that things like in dont happen. Thank you, senator. I welcome the question. I would say a couple of things. First, one of the primary to impart have tried to every single fbi audience everywhere i go is that our reputationnd as an agency, i think, revolves less around wins and successes and victory over 111 years and more on the way in accomplished the wins. When we made mistakes and over 111 years we made our share. The key is whether we learn from them. But we need to be inci aor posi with every investigation and analysis thatho when we get criticized or is somebody is not happy with the result and there is always somebody not happy. We need to able to say i get it you may not like where it ended up, but cant challenge the integrity and objectivity and professional imism how we got there. As youou say i made personnel changes, turned over the leadership team. Second, we put in place a number of new policies, third, i did a full day of training for starting at the op on the theory that tone starts at the top. I brought all the scs workforce around the world for a day at quantico, had the Inspector General office, judges, trying to remind everybody that its notts just objectivity in what we do but the appearance in objectivity in what we do thats so important. I will say i will say that while we have certainly as i said had mistakes and taken appropriate disciplinary action when that occurred, that my experience with the fbi and i say that i think with a pretty informed basis for it now is that it is full, top to bottom of hardworking professionals ofy, the highest integrity, incredibleor commitment to serve over self and im proud every day to work with them. Thank you. Is theti fbi or the administratn as a whole have a position on the reauthorization of the expiring authorities under the usa freedom act. I dont think the administrationic has taken an official position. Althoughgh as i said to chairma graham there are three provisions in particular that are keenlyth relevant to the fb that at least my experience has been are relatively noncontroversial, extremely important to our work, and all subject to Court Supervision. P are the Business Records provision we talked about, the roving wire o tap provision, essentially equivalent to what already exists under title 3 on the criminal soid, and the lone wolf provision which has not been used yet but that is more because we have chosen to use other tools where we can. And the way the counterterrorism threat is evolving we predict the next few years the lone wolf provision will be more and more important. We would hate to see it disappear. The collection of call detail records orr cdrs as thordsed by section 215 of the patriot act and subsequently modified by thy usa freedom act, has been the subject of a fair amount of scrutiny after it was reported recently that or after the nsa rather publicly reported that in june of 2018 it was deleting three years worth of cdr records due to what they referred to as technical irregularities in the data provided to the nsa from the telecommunications providers. Leading to the receipt of certain cdrs that nsa, quote, was not authorized to receive. In marchl of this year the ne york times and the wall street journal both reported that the nsa had shut down the entire cdr Collection Program in 2018 and was considering ending the program entirely. Ta whats the current status of the cdr program . Well, senator, as you alluded to in your question, thats really an nsa authority, and i would defer to them for kind of the latest and greatest on that. Is dont you think the abuse of d that or the impropriy of its collection has to be something that we take into account in deciding whether or in what way to reauthorize these programs. Well, certainly, i think the congress should make a decision about ct reauthorization of any of the provisions in the usa freedom act. And i think, you know, questions of errors or irregularities or even abuses are appropriate to take into account. But the specifics about the cdr program im going to defer to nsa oh on. The three provisions i listed off are the ones that the fbi is most focused on. Thank you. Senator durbin. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Wray, welcome. Id like to ask you a question. Do you know what group was responsible20 for more homicide from 2000 to 2016, more than any other domestic Extremist Group . Not sure. But i trust youre about to tell me. Not a trick question. I raise that question because your testimony that was submitted to the committee talked about home grown violent extremist. In an unclassified fbi dhs joint intelligence bulletin in may 2017 found that white supremacist extremism poses a persistent threate of lethal violence, went on to say White Supremacists were responsible for more homicides from 2000 to 2016 than any other extremist movement. Seven members of the committee joined me in writing a letter to you and attorney general barr explaining our concern about whether the fbi and department of justice were taking adequate measures to combat white supremacist violence and minimizing this growing domestic terrorismt threat. The term white supremacist, White Nationalist is not included in your statement. To the committee when you talk about threats to america. There is a reference to racism, which i think probably was meant to include that. But nothing more specific. We live in a world where the neonazis and White Supremacists are taking lives in many places. White supremacists murdered 51 muslim worshippers in new zealand. I 2017, a white supremacist murdered six muslim worship he a moscow in quebec city, canada. And in United States. Far right extremes prerp separated snoogt in oak creek wisconsin, the Emmanuel African Methodist Church in south carolina. The tree of life synagogue in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. The poway synagogue in poway, california. The reason i raise this is because there is a concern that this is notn being taken as seriously as it should be. As one of the real threats in oured country. And a concern as well that the fbi has now changed its definition whenme it comes to re related crimes. They have create add new categoryed for what you term racially motivated violent extremism. It used to be white supremacist incidents. Could you explain to me why there was this change, whether you consider this a serious threat andway you are doing about it. I ask you this in the context of a National Conversation thats taking place every day under this presidency. About the issue of race and incitement to emotion and violence by the people who are using race as the motivator. So, senator, first let me sort of unpack your question a little bit. Needless to say we fake domestic terrorism or hate crime regardless of ideology steamily seriously. I can assure you. And we are aggressively pursuin it. Weapon use both counterterrorism resources and criminal investigative resources and partnering closely with our state andla local partners. In just the last little while we have had cases involving for exampleli the coast guard lieutenant who was planning an attack on i elected officials a tv anchors here in this area. Is that white was that motivated by White Supremacy belief. Inches it would be a version of that, certainly. We our focus when you ask about the categorization. Our focus is on the violence. We dont we the fbi dont investigate ideology no matter how repugnant. We investigate violence. And any extremist ideology when it turns to violence, were all over it. And we have had in fact you dont haves to just take my wor for it. Just in the first threequarters of this year we have had i more defect terrorism arrests than the prior year. And its about the same number ofri arrests as we have on the International Terrorism side. Id ask you to clarify that. Because when you talk i dont know if were talking about the same thing. But when you take talk about home grown violent extremist and i talk about domestic violent extremists are we talking about the same thing . No t we use the term home grn violent extremism referring to people already here in the United States who are inspired by different parts of the Global Jihadist Movement to commit troert acts. We use the term domestic terrorism to refer to a broader array of threats ranging from and arkist extremism, to different kinds of racially motivated violent extremism, different kinds of environmental extremism, et cetera. Let me pursue that for aas i second. The point im getting to. And the reason i quoted in unclassified report is if its violence that motivates the fisher investigation, what we have here is a statement in in unclassified joint Intelligence Report that between the years 2000 andnd 2016 the White Supremacists wereer responsible for more homicides than any other domestic extremism movement. Now, ire see the distinction yo are making. Home grown versus domestic. But let me ask you. Can you quantify either one of them for us . Well, in terms of number of arrests we have through the Third Quarter of this fiscal year had about, give or take, 100 arrests in the International Terrorism side,t which include the home grown violent extremism. This year. This year. Me but we have also had just about the same number, again, dont quote me to the exact digit on the domestic terrorism side. And i will say that a majority of the domestic terrorism cases that we have investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist tviolence. But it includes other things as well. I think this is significant. I do not want to diminish the work that you are doing when it comes to the home grown domestiw terrorism in any way what so th far. Not at all. And i understand that as a serious threat to the United States. And ac 9 11 is Proof Positive of that fact. But what you have just said is significant. If the number of peoplear arresd this calendar year when it comes to this extremist conduct is about equalor between those who were inspired by foreign actors, isis, al qaeda, whatever it might be,on and knows who were inspired by whitee supremacy or at least some version of race, now if thats the way i heard you sayhe it please clarify. Let me clarify. What i just gave you were the number of arrests. The number of arrests. Thats not necessarily the same thing as the number of gi investigations. Vearrested. Thats an important distinction. Assuming the integrity of your department, which i will, the fact that they would make an arrest its with the belief thaa a crime mab committed. The point iming getting to is a tense moment on American History on the issue of race. We are having a National Conversation we havent had in a long time aboutpt racismab and reaction whats acceptable and what is not. And what im asking you from the fbi point of view and what you have told me is that we ought to take care as seriously as we take foreign inspired terrorism, there is a domestic terrorism under way ing the na of race that is as threatening in some respects as the foreign terrorism. Thats the way i hear it. Yeah, i dont know that i i think the greatest terrorist threat to the homeland is the extremists. Iolent i will say we take domestic. Foreign spirpses snirps inspired. That doesnt say we dont take domestic terrorism, including hate crimes committed on before ofxt some kind of whi supremacist ideology extremely seriously. And we have had a number of very significant arrests. I mentioned the coast guard one but we had militia members in cleveland stock piling explosives. The cesar sayoc with the package ied. The rice above movement where we arrested eight people on federal rioting charges. One fled tona el salvador and w got him back. The tree of life synagogue shooting case which you mentioned and the shooting outside san diego that the attack in the synagogue there. We got 29count conviction and life sentence related to the charlottesvillee matter. Make noo mistake, the fisher working with our state and local Law Enforcement partners is all over this. Thank you very much. F senator cornyn. Direct wray thank you for opening yourde remarks with you tribute to orlocal, state and federal Law Enforcement officers. Its really important for all of us not just the professional Law Enforcement officers you represent but to the entire nation too acknowledge and hono these heroes for their service and sacrifice. So thank you for that. You may be interested to know that its this friday if will be my honor to deliver the congressional badge of bravery to a group of houston fbi agents for their work during hurricane harvey, which was particularly significant event in my state. And so on on their behalf let me thank you. And all of the rank and file fbi agents that do such a great job every day. Youll recall that on november the 5th, 2017, Devin Patrick kelly killed 26 worshippers at a Little Baptist Church outside of sfoin in Sutherland Springs. He injured 20 more people. Devastating the community as we could imagine. We found out that mr. Kelly was a convicted felon. He had a record of being detained for Mental Health reasons. He had been convicted of Domestic Violence. Actually even fracturing his stepsons skull do you agree one particular episode. He should have never been able to s purchase firearms through licensed firearm dealer because he would have should have failed a background check. But he did what we find is unfortunately not entirely uncommon. He lied and bought the weapons he used to commit this terrible tragic event. So Congress Passed a piece of legislation, as you know, called fix knicks np fix the national stant background check system to try to federal agencies to provide record of people who are legally disqualified under current law. B as you know that background check system is maintained by the fbi. Could you give us an update on what the impact has been just in general terms. Well, i certainly, on senator, i agree with you that the nics system works at its best when we have complete information that ensures the all share of making sure prohibited from possessing firearms dont get their hands on them. Last year i think the nics system had i think 100,000 plus or there abouts denials. And certainly were seeing progress in terms of the agencies that had not supplied records, you know, starting to do that. I dont have thehepr exact percentage how far along we are. But we are making progress and we appreciate your leadership in ensuring that we move in that direction. Would you agree with me that in all probability congresss terrible tragedy in Sutherland Springs, by rermging the background system has probably saved lives. I do think so. O. I do think so. Director wray, i was in austinin texas with senator warr and burr thes case ih and vice chair of the Senate Intelligence committee at a program hosted by tech net by for the Technology Community in austin which is as you know robust and growing. Bill pretepp who was head of the Counterintelligence Division at fbi made a presentation about the chinese the china threat. And i think it was an eyeopening eye opening presentation for a lot of the folks there. One, i remember in particular said he thought that once the United States issued a visa to somebody that they had performed a security background check on that person and they were not a threat to the United States National Security. Mr. Pri step said in the old days its now versus spy. But now its a spy versus a whole host of unconventional ane informal collectors. I know the fbi has done its best to try to spread that word. But can young tell me sort of wt your record has been in doing that and whether you think there is more that needs to be done by congress orar i know the fbi has its hands full. It cant go around and make presentations liketr this acros the country while you tree try to keep the bad guys off the streets. Orpl but is there more we need to do to supplement the efforts of the fisher to educate the American People onn this threat . Well, i will say when it comes to congresss role i have, despite the bitterly polarized political viefrmt we live in right now, ive been heartened by on this particular issue every time i appear in front of a committee of congress from one end of the spectrum to the o other, compared to earlier stages in my career in Law Enforcement,th the level of alignment and consensus about the importance of confronting this threat in a more thoughtful and effective way i think is source for cheer. And so the more congress can raise awareness i think the more we can appropriately protect the country. I will say that there is a lot that people i think in this country dont understand about the nature of the china threat. It is not just, as you say spy versus spy, traditional intelligence operatives. There are a slough of what we call nontraditional collectors. Businessmen, scientists, highlevel academics, graduate students, et cetera. People not Intelligence Officers by profession but who are for a variety of reasons working on behalf of the Chinese Government. And i think sometimes people doentd are dont understand the degree to which lines that we all reveer and cherish in this country are blurred if not entirely eliminated in china. The difference between the government and the Chinese Communist party, not really a a difference. They difference between the Chinese Government and its private sector, is not really a difference. Why do i say that . I say that because under chinese law most companies in china are either already literally stateowned sbrpdss, essentially an arm of the state for that reason por legally or practically behold be to the Chinese Communist party. Different aspects of the chinese law require those companies to provide whatever information the Chinese Government or the Chinese Communist party wants. Essentially upon demand. And i think a lot of people the dont understand that fact virtually any company from china of of any size is required to have inside a Chinese Communist party cell or committee to ensure that the company dmeers to the Chinese Communist party policies. Gi so when those folks are out trying to through legitimate means or illegitimate means steal intellectual property, thats what we are talking about is a counterintelligence threat. And we haveav in the last sever months had a whole variety of cases, hackers associated with the chinese m. S. S. Who were engaged in an Extensive Campaign of intrusions against Something Like 45 different companies, 12 different states, lots of countries. We had an m. S. S. Officer who has been charged in ohio trying to steal aviation secrets from companies there. Different chinese m. S. S. Officers and entire team of hackersor involved in a fiveye campaign of repeated intrusions. We had a chinese stateowned enterprise which p along with a couple ofcr individuals was tryg to steal trade secrets from a company in idaho. We had a guy in chicago, senator durbin, who was working with the mss to recruit employees of clear defense contractors. We had a guy in oklahoma who was stealing over 1. 0 billion of confidential proprietary information from a u. S. Energy company. Course and i havent gotten to the huawei case where they were charged literally coast to coast with a campaignft of fraud, intellectu property theft and obstruction of justice. I could go on and on and on. It affects basically every industry in this country. And agriculture. Affect private sector, academicia. To involving operations, involving cyber operations. To be clear we welcome competition. We well academic freedom. But cheating, not okay. Fraud, not okay. Cyber hacking, not okay. And as long as they keep committing crimess and threatening ourur National Security theyre going to keep encountering the fbi. Thank you. Other than that are we in pretty good shape with china . Senator whitehouse. Thank you chairman, thank you director wray. Id like to take you back to the fbis role in the kavanaugh Background Investigation, if i may. There wereha two letters sent t you by law firms in that time frame, one pointed out that the federal bureau of quoting then im letter here declined to interview witnesses whose names we provided to the fbi as possessing information highly relevant to the allegations. And the other referenced agents meeting with a witness whose counsel providing the fbi with a list of more than 20 additional witnesses, likely to have relevant information. And that letter actually attached an affidavit from a very apparently credible person who had been at college at the time was currently a Emergency Room Physician and so forth. And evidently no follow up on that either. Id like to ask the two letters be made a part of the record. We also experienced on in committee considerable difficulty in finding out where the point of entry would be to the fbi for information. Ive been a u. S. Attorney. I worked closely with the fbi as a Rhode Island Attorney general. I have never known the fbi to be fending off information before. So informs a very novel and peculiar circumstance in which witnesses werent interviewed and in which when we asked to find out where the point of entry was for information there none, apparently. I you were asked to provide Committee Confidential Contact Information for of an fbi agent to whom members can send credible contacts regarding individuals seeking to be interviewed. Did that ever happen . Well, senator, i dont remember all of the specifics of that particular Background Investigation. But what i will say, you referenced your Prior Experience as u. S. Attorney and of course we have talked about that before. I think its important for people to understand that there difference ntal betweenn a Background Investigation and the kinds of criminal investigations or even counterintelligence investigations the fbi does every day. Yes. A Background Investigation is something that we do in a completely different way as an Investigative Service provider to a client agency, in this case it would have been h the white house. As you testified to senator harris in the Homeland Securitym committee. Correct. Our supplemental update toit the previous Background Investigation was limited in scope and it was limited in scope by the white house. Thats correct. Iny also testified i did testify to that. And i stand by that testimony. I would also say, though, as i recall, i also testified that i consulted atn length with our Security Professionals who are specialists in Background Investigations to make sure thaw that investigation that Background Investigation was done consistent with our longstanding policies, practices and procedures for Background Investigations, where the scopee its not unusual for the scopepe to be limited here is my hypothesis. You dont recall whether you responded to in letter by seeing to it that there was an fbi agent to whom members could send credible contacts. I dont believe there was. Because i was trying to, you know, vector information to the right place. And t every door we turned to closed or said, no go to that door and then that door closed or said no go to that door. The ultimate upshot it seemed to me was that the fbi established a tip line. And if people wanted to bring in information they were told to call into the tip line. Now, ive tried to find out what the protocol is for dealing with tipn lines. And i would ask that as a question for the record you provide me whatever is relevant to the Standard Operating Procedure and practice for the fbi with respect to the treatment of tip line information when itwo comes in. Would you be willing to do that. Id be happy to provide you more information about tip lines. Thank you. What i did find was an fbi video that describes how tip lines work when it comes in through the fbis fbi. Gov interface. The stirs ste is comes in the Public Access center fbi headquarters. Analysts vet them, review them for believability, credibility, check internall and external databases to verify the information ista a valid tip. Can you vouch knows steps were undertaken wrekts to the kavanaugh Background Investigation tip line. What i can tell you, senator, is that i spoke specifically responsible for the Background Investigation who are career professionals, specializing in Background Investigations, a not to be confused with criminal investigations or counterintelligence investigations. And i was assured repeatedly that they felt comfortable that there way it was being handled s consistent with our practices, procedures and longstanding approach. There had never been a tip line before in a Background Investigation ever before. I dont know the answers to that. I dont know there was so its hard to say it was consistent with procedures. Here is the procedures. Another one is every tip is looked at by stleeft two individuals whoho have independt Quality Assurance checks. Do you know if that procedure was followed with respect to the Kavanaugh Investigation tip line . Well, senator, i would again come back to the answer i gave which is i expect that Background Investigations which are different,st fundamentally different from criminal investigations and counterintelligence investigations were being conducted in a way that the professionals who specialize in this areaan felt comfortable. But t you dont know whetherr not the tipth line procedures we followed with respect. Im not familiar i dont front of meent in youre looking at. I havent talked specifically about that. Then it says once the tip is determined to have investigative investigative metro and supervisor reviews the tip and at that point its vectoredth io further system for processing. I guess youre not. It familiar whether that supervisorysu step took place either. What imm familiar with is e assurances. I heard that. Okay. Im just s trying to ask something more specific. And themi last is every single piece of information thats a submitted byrs an individual is reviewed by fbi personnel at fbi headquarters. Again you cant vouch for that taking place with respect to this tip line. That ant speak tono specifically. Got it. Okay. Here istl my concern. And ill be perfectly candid about it. And you can answer however you want questions for the record to allay my concerns but it looked to me like every time somebody went to get a fbi agent to take information they were fended off. Tip line became a tip dump into which information was dumped and never, ever reviewed for credibility and was not treated with the protocol that the fbi has announced that it handles with tip lines. So im happy to continue this conversation. My time is up right now. Sw but, please, i think thats a legitimate question to ask. And i hope that in answers for the record youll be able to compare the protocols that the fbi uses for tip lines with the way in which this particular tip line was handled by the fbi and i understand you treat o these differently and dont follow ordinary procedure. But ordinary procedure is a fairily reasonable benchmark and im interested in finding out how close the fbi came to it in tip line. Id be happy to see if we can provide you more information as follow up to the questions. Again, i would say that ordinary procedure to use your phrase there is ordinary procedure for criminal investigations and counterintelligence investigations. Ordinary procedure for background conventions is Something Different in my view. Couldnt agree with you more. Once we agree on the facts of what took place we can have a discussion about whether or not that met standards of kind of basic responsibility. Thank you. Okay. Senator sass. Thank you, an mr. Chairman. Director wray, thanks for being here. Id like to talk about human traffics one of the great scourges of our time. There are more slaves on earth now than at any point in human history. Thank you for the work of the bureau in the Jeffrey Epstein case that monsterer is in the process of being brought to justice and your agents have done good work. Lets zoom out from an individual case to the bigger picture. O l when is it appropriate for trafficking cases to be investigated by state and local and Highway Patrol versus the bureau . How do you divide responsibilities . Well, as a general rule we take the approach with Human Trafficking thatap we do with mt threats where there is overlapping oresponsibility, which is we look at where we at the fbi can most add value to the common fight against whatever the threat is. And so in the case of Human Trafficking, we probably spend more of our efforts on the fbi side focused on sex trafficking and sex trafficking of kids than for example on labor tracking of adults. Doesnt mean we dont investigate the others but we try to work with other agencies to try to share the load. Where we think we can most add value is going after those who traffic dsh traffic kids for sex. And we have extensive investigations. In fact just this month ongoing we have something called day. Tion independence anded i think at last count abo halfway through the month we already rescued Something Like rescued or recovered about 40 kids just this month. Its ongoing. Ti it will end at the end of the month. Part of that part of the reason i make that distinction is because there are skill sets we can provide and offer that i think are f uniquely relevant t dealing with child victims, for example. There are authorities that we have that help us investigate more effectively some of the online w effectiveness that som of the traffickers have. And so those are some of the way i think we contribute ewe feekly. But its very much of a common fight. We have task forces all over the country. I think about 85 Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking task forces that work that have partnered and i mentioned in my Opening Statement how much we rely on state andn local law enforcemen. Lots and lots of state and local Law Enforcement officers are on those task forces all over the country. We really try to go at it together. There are great task forces in the bureau and at state and local levels as well. The Nebraska Attorney general Doug Pederson has stood up a task force thats grieves. Cratingen university in omaha has researchers studying the moving of brothels that have kids in them and average brothel size that they have studied often has three to five kids and they move around connected to sportingoc events. But, again, praising the work because there is new focus oh at the bureau on this. Lo this is not retrorespective critical but forward looking im skeptical we have nearly enough resources on the problem when we know that tens of thousands of kids a are marketed online any given month and a lot of the brothels of three to five kids move by sporting event crossing state lines. Do you think that we have enough resources in the bureau dedicated to child sex trafficking . Well, we are devoting a lot of resources to it. But i will tell you that any Additional Resources congress would see fit to give us i can assure you will be put to good use. It is absolutely horrifying that in the 21st century this kind of activity can happen inso our country. I mean, its border line medieval. And some of the kids are heart breakingly young and utterly helpless. And so the more resources we bring to the fight both on the federal side but also state and local Law Enforcement but also frankly we workh closely with ngos and various other forms of organizations to try to help prevent some of in activity. A lot of a big role for awarenessti raising in this spa as well from a prevention perspective. Well on the h one hand im thrilled when we recover a child. On the other hand, im realist. And heart broken because i know that kid will never be the same. There is a lot of estimates that somewhere around majority wet dont use the term child prostitution anymore because its not a crime that has consent in it. We use the term child rape but of the broad category of prostitution the the stumps assumption is it thatnd the majority of pros fusion in the u. S. Are people under 21. W and those over 21 some large share were trafficked into this before they were 21. Or we call it medieval but it does seem a particularly per initials modern scourge because the numbers are greater now a than any point of history. Do we have a National Strategy to combat it . And if so, who is in charge of it . Well ik no he we work collaborative with a whole host of other agencies in the federal government for example. You know, ranging from the Department Much labor, to the Department Much state, because there is a huge role there, to the department of health and human services. Ne i can remember specific meetings ive been to with other cabinet secretaries specificallyff focud on Human Trafficking. So its a its clearly one of the things thats a multidisciplinary problem requiring a multidisciplinary approach. I think thats what the administration is bringing to it. I only have a little bit of time left. But i want to set up a set of questions for you that ill follow up with you on later and or for the record. But following on your answers to senator cornyn about ip theft and recounterintelligence effor against the chinese in the u. S. And the places where there is so much intellectual property being stolen. If you were able to give the sort of elevatort pitch to a bunch of folks in Silicon Valley about what the chinese strategy is when they deal with them, senator cornyn used the example of those of us on the Intelligence Committee who have had conversations with tech ceos who believe because people are given visas into the u. S. Theyve been vetted, obviously not the case and these are regularha assets of the Chinese Government. And i appreciateee the distinctionsen you wanted to collapse between chinese nominally private Sector Institutions and the government. And the distinction between the government and the communist party as being distinctions regularly without a difference. If you were explaining your elevator pitch to Silicon Valley ceos approached by chinese th investors, and buy by chinese computer scientists whats the horthand of the way you would try to put them on notice about how ip theft is organize from beijing . P well, i think you can look at, for example, the various fiveyear plans the chinese have for technologies that they are seeking to achieve dominance in. And then you can look at some of the cases that we brought which i think raise awareness, and what you know is that is that either through lawful means, joint ventures, foreign investment, et cetera, or in some cases just out and out criminal means, ip theft, cyber intrusions, et cetera, they are determined to push themselves u. The economic ladder at other peoples expense at the u. S. And our partners expense. I think anybody, whether in the Silicon Valley start up or fortune 100 company, needs to be cleareyed and thoughtful about who they get into business with. Because the road is long with victims of this. And let oaf those companies wish they could get it back. I think ofnc a company i rememb in massachusetts that went down this road and then saw once they had gotten too far in saw the stock drop 40 something in one day because once finished with them theyoe moved on. So it doesnt mean we shouldnt do business with the chinese. It doesnt mean we shouldnt have chinese visitors. It doesnt mean we shouldnt try to coexist with china on the world stage. But to does mean that there are certain kindsng of behavior tha violates criminal laws. And were in the going to tolerate it. And it doesnt matter whether its chinese or anybody else were goingpl to hold people accountable. I dont really careway some Foreign Government has to say about it. Thank you. Senator klobuchar. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Director wray, you have previously said that foreign interference in the 2016 president ial election and what we just saw in 2018 in terms of the work done was a dress rehearsal for the bigon show of the 2020 elections. And weve had a briefing on this. We know that special counsel mueller made clear howow the russians interfered in the 2016 election. In this his report inlear his w in a sweeping and systematic hi fashion. I have made clear that in disagree with how the president has handled this in his meetings with vladimir putin, where he has made jokes about it. Just recently at the g20 where he actually basically said he sided with him over his own intelligence. Im not going to ask you about that. But imfe going to ask you if y the previously briefed president about if you personally briefed the presideni about these threats. We have had a number of meetings with others in the National Security councils to include the president that deal with russian efforts to interfere with, say, the midterms and Going Forward and things that were doing Going Forward. Were you aware of the report where it said that former director neemz had been told about officials in the white house to not brief the president on it, because it wasnt a good idea for her to do that. Not beyond what i saw in the press coverage you just mentioned. Okay. So i look at how we solve things. Andsi one of the ways i think i would be helpful to solve this is if there was intrusion in our election i heard you talk about two different ways to look athi this. One is the physical hacking and one is the propaganda. T and one so one of the things i thinklo would be helpful to hav backup paper ballots and audits in case that hacking occurs. Do you think that would be helpful for our democracy . Well, as you know, senator, i think the responsibility for election infrastructure t so things like paper ballots is more in the lane of dhs and interaction with state and level officials in the election space. Although my limited layman understanding inld that space a see paper ballots would be a good thing and it seems that redundancy would be in everybodys interests inn such f an important space for the country. I appreciate that. And then secondly on propaganda issues and particularly purchased ads as you know lastst time russia actually purchased ads with rubles. Do you think it would be helpful to know what the ads are in the upcoming election, whether paid foror by russia, china or any outside group,m . To know what ty are and who paid for them . Be well, we certainly are trying to take a number of steps to raise awareness and working with private sector entities which provideop platforms for differe forms of foreign influence messaging, whether propaganda, fake news or something else. But wouldnt it be helpful just to know the facts . Well i tend to believe that more informationon is better th less. And i tend toha believe that th American Public will be better hardened against this threat with greater Media Literacy and resilience. Okay. Thank you. I just want to point out one bill i have with senator graham which would force those companies to actually the social Media Companies put out there who paid for the ads what they are. As we dont have to patchwork system for the next election. And the second that senator langford and had the secure elections act which would have firmly required backup paper ballots if anyone gets federal election money. The first the second bill was just stopped in its tracks by the white house. And it very much alarmed me. I want to follow up on what senatorr durbin was asking abou. And i want to focus not in the terrorism which we have some of in minnesota im well aware of the fbis work on that front. And i want to o thank you on th other end of the bombing at the mosque where the agents were incredibly helpful and helped solve the crime. And why do you think there has been this thnz inng the number hate crimes . And im talkingt. Now about the home grown terrorism. Talk about the hate crimes. When it comes to the subject of hate crimes, we are seeing an increase in the reporting of hate crimes. We know, i think, fairly widely i think accepted in the law hate ement community that crimes are historically underreported. Whether the uptick in reporting is because of an uptick in hate crime occurrence or whether an uptick in agencies that now understand the importance ofwe reporting it is a little bit hard d to tell. We have been doing a lot at the fbi. We have done hundreds of seminars workshops trainings and et cetera of state and local law the country. Round Community Groups et cetera to raise awareness to increase reporting. Its a Positive Side on the one hand that there is more reporting. But its possible. Hard to say. Its hard to say whether there is more hate crimes. I esee. Yes. Like manyy of my colleagues n both sides of the aisle we are very concerned and deeply concerned by the president s tweets, the chants at the rallies about the four Congress Women. And i wasan its particularly concerned because of those Congress Women o is in my state and particularly singled out. She had already thanks to the good work of your agents in local Law Enforcement dsh someone who had made a serious threat againsti her in the past had been arrested and sent to jail. Im not going to ask you if these four women or particularly congresswoman omar has sought protection. I dont think that would be appropriate. Can you tell me what type of assistancend the fbi offers members of congresss subject to these threats and whats the efforts under way to track thesa kinds of threats . Well certainly any time someone, including a member of congress, is the subject of a threat we hope that they will come forward. We want to try to communicate with them if there is enough spread indicationit for investigation then we will open an investigation. We will work with security here up on the hill itself sometimes to try w to see if we can be of assistance. As far as tracking goes, we have a variety of ways of tracking investigations. I dont know that i have something specific to at least sitting here right now thats narrowly tailored to threats to members of congress. But im sure were keeping track of it inf a variety of ways. Okay. Just last on the subject of guns, i appreciated and share your deep respect for those families and those officers that put themselves made the ultimate sacrifice. But most of the examples involved guns. And senator cornyn asked the question about the background checkng system. But there ises so much more we could do, like closing the gun show loophole and here in Congress Passing the bill that we had, the bipartisan bill to improve background checks. And then also specifically one of your examples was about Domestic Violence, Domestic Violence report that an officer went to scene and got killed. We in a similar one like this in minnesota. And right now in the violence against women act thatpr passed the house with 33 republican votes, is a provision that i have long worked on with senator hirono and others that closes the gun show the boyfriend loophole. And ifs in where an existing law right now if you live with someone or you are married to them and youve been convicted of defectt violence then you cant go out and get a gun. But half of the domestic homicides are involving boyfriends or sometimes girlfriendset and there is a loophole saying it doesnt apply if you are convicted and you cant t go out and get a gun if you exited Domestic Violence against a boyfriend . Do you think its helpful to close the loop zblool i havent reviewed the legislation. W to d need to look at it give you a sense from an operational perspective. Io just do you agree that there is more we could do besides just the t questions fr senator cornyn when it comes to making the world safer for our Law Enforcement with regard to guns . Well were always looking for ways to enhance the nics system consistent with the law. And i think we clearly need as i said at the beginning to take a harderri look at violence again Law Enforcement in this country in ank variety of ways. All right. Thank you. Senator cruz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Director wray, welcome, thank you for your service. Let me start in particular by thanking you for your Opening Statement. It was a t powerful testament t the men and women of Law Enforcement who serve on the front lines, like you i have spent far too much time with grieving families of the men and women in blue who have lost their lives protecting us, keeping us safe. Theirs is a difficult job, a job i think we are all obliged to take the time to appreciate, to sayat thank you. And i appreciate i appreciate i encourage folks to listen to your Opening Statement because it was a powerful reminder that every single s day an officer wakes u and puts on his his or her uniform and straps on his or her gun and kisses his wife or her husband goodbye for the morning. They may not see their kids again. And thank you for the work the fbi is t doing to keep our officersha safe and the obligatn all of us have to continue to keep officers safe. I want to start with a topic that has been discussed some already this morning, which is chinese espionage. You have described the threat of china as unique and the most significant we are facing. And your testimony said that thr United States significantly underestimates the threat of economic espionage. What avenues are we seeing where chinese economic espionage is manifesting . So certainly it covers the water front s in terms of secto, from startups, hitech companies, all the way to aerospace, aviation, agriculture. We had you know a case in kansas notte long ago where the wereth attempting to steal, you know, highly proprietary rice seeds being developed. The u. S. Agriculture is the envy of the world. Thats a place where theyve done a number of things. It covers the whole spectrum of types of sectors. But then in terms of size of businesses, its fortune 100 companies all the way down to startups . Ng Silicon Valley. And then in terms of types of techniques it involves everything from cyber intrusions to corruption of insiders, to things that are not illegal, still a National Security threat. Different kinds of foreign investment, et cetera. So there is a its kind of a. All tools approach by them. And therefore requires an all tools approach by us. One sector in particular tt ive been concerned about is the academic sector. And our colleges and universities. Ive met with quite a few colleges and universities pb be Research Institutions based in the state of texas, some of which have been victims of attempted or completed chinese espionage. And one concern that i have particularly in the academic sector is their leaders tend to be in someea insteness at as le aware of the scope of the threat and less sophisticated and savvy than some in say the fortune 100 world in terms of means of defending against espionage and theft of intellectual property. To what extent do you see chinese espionage in the academic world as a problem . Ng and what more should we be doing about it . So im glad you raised it. I too share your concerns in that space. We there is a number of things that are going on there. One is that the Chinese Government and the Chinese Communist party have a number of socalled talent plans. You hear about the thousand talent plans. There is nothing inherently unlawful aboutou the talent pla themselves. However we have seen through lots p of investigations abuse of those talent plans. And essentially we have situations where we have its created a pipeline in some cases at major universities, especially at the graduate level, more so the undergraduate level, of key intellectual property, sometimes that has dual use potential, flowing back tons china for the advancement its various. Strategic plans. And the irony is that the u. S. Is essentially funding that economic resurgence through various money that it provides to through grants, et cetera. I think we do have to be a careful that we dont find ourselves in a situation where essentially u. S. Taxpayer money is miss appropriated for the advancesment of chinas economic t dominance over us. There are a lot of cases where those plans become violations of u. S. Law or at the very least violate noncompetes and things like that that might exist. F and i think universities need to bebe more and more aware of whot is they are inviting over. And what safeguards they can put in place. One of the things the fbi is trying to do a lot of and in factec we had some very good wo with texas a m recently to try to raise awareness in the University Space so that, again, we are not requiring universities to do c anything. Thats not the fbi peace role. What we are trying to do is raise awareness so they can make thoughtful voluntary decisions not just in the countrys business interests but i would argue in the best interests of their own academic research. I agree with you and i look forward to working withal you t protect university and also ensure against espionage of intellectual property. Let me turn to a final topic, which is an area of concern for me. Which is the group that is called itself antifa, which ironically is short for antifacism and yet engage in the conduct of facists. They engage in violent protests, masked men and women engaging in physical violence we saw recently the rose city chapter of antifa in portland, oregon assaulting nacitizens, disrupti traffic, violented assaulted one journalist so severely he was hospitalized for brain hemorrhage. Like wiek this weekend another antifa terrorist attacked a u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement center in tacoma washington, igniting a vehicle and attempting to ignite a propane phang. Im concerned these are not isolated instances but rather a pattern, Organization Organization engaged in masked anonymous violenthr terrorism. To what extent is the fbi concerned about the threat of violent activityy from an organization like antifa . So, we are absolutely concerned about violence committedex on behalf of any ideology, any extremism, no matter and the key there, know, is the point that i think i madedi in response to a coupl of differents questions already which is, again, the fbi doesnt investigate ideology. We investigate violent criminal activityct and if its fueled b some ideology then thats how it gets wrapped into our mandate. And so for us antifa we view as more of an ideology than an organization. We have quite a number, though, i shouldld tell you of properly predicated investigations of what wee capturingize as and arkist extremists, people trying tosu commit violent criminal activity that violates federal law. And some of those people do subscribe to what we refer to as kind of antifa like ideology. We dont think of antifa as much as an organization as such but i think we are saying sort of the same thing. Although thecres bureau has significant tools to go after organizations, criminal enterprises that engage that use anonymity, use masks to carry out violence, groups like the clan, the mafia at times. Di i will today be sending letter to you and the d department of justice asking the department to open a rico investigation into antifa because i believe they are engaged in a similar effort. Ted that letter will likewise focus on some local elected officials who have chosen to deny Police Protection to citizens based on political ideology. That is a pattern sadly that we saw e we have seen with politicians who favored clan violence. And i think every citizen deserves Law Enforcement their ion regardless of political ideology. Well i look forward to reviewing your letter. Thank you. Onf senator coons. Thank you chairman. Director wray good to see you again. Ha on behalf of all of us and the 37,000 men women of the fbi for what yout do every day. In my own community the fbi continuesa difference, and just the last few months in delaware, the ongoing Close Partnership with state and local Law Enforcement has produced arrests and convictions in Drug Trafficking, fraud, bribery, cyber stalking i think we too easily forget the critical difference is that the fbi partnership with state and local Law Enforcement makes and i greatly appreciate your opening remarks. My own worst days in Public Service were attending line of duty death funerals, for officer chad spicer and georgetown for sergeant joe and in my own county Police Department i will never forget those, those are really hard days and im grateful that you continue to remind us of that core part of Law Enforcement work which is exposure to risk, and that we Work Together in ways to reduce that risk and to improve officer safety. One of the things that my colleague senator cornyn brought up to you was the ways in which the next background check system was improved after the Sutherland Spring shooting by the passage of the fix nicks bill which made impish sure that they were in that system had up and done in a timely way, the shooter and Sutherland Springs wouldve been barred from getting a weapon, we have talked in the past i think it was last may, about a bill that i have with senator toomey that would share with state and local Law Enforcement next denials, there were i think 99,252 nics denials last year so someone who is prohibited from getting a weapon went into a federally licensed firearm dealer and was told you cannot purchase in some states, the state Police Conducted that initial transfer of information pennsylvania is one city immediately know about it and they can go followup and where appropriate arrests someone for lying and trying in my thhome state in delaware and 31 other states that is not the case, this is a simple bipartisan bill intuitively require realtime sharing with one state Law Enforcement contact of any nics denials since we spoke about it last may i wondered if you had any more thoughts about it, whether this is something you would support as a simple way to put more information in the hands of our state and local Law Enforcement partners and whether you will work with me in my office to adtry to get this through the committee. Senator, on the one end i have not had a chance to review the proposed legislation itself but i do very specifically recall our conversation on this topic and how important it is to you, and i think there is a sort of two principles at stake here which i think we are on the same place with you know, one is the goal of keeping the guns out of the hands of people and legally prohibited from having them and second, insistent with my Opening Statement, the need to support state and local Law Enforcement in their efforts, as you say last year, nics i think tonight around 100,000 background checks. So the volume is significant. And my own sense, is not what would be most helpful here, is to have a conversation that i brings in to make sure that the state and local Law Enforcement have the appropriate seats at the table because i hear all the time when im out in the field, with state and local Law Enforcement, the burden that they feel they are under so i want to be a little bit careful before we just dump all the information on them. Lets move to that, our last conversation was months ago, in response to senator cornyns question, you said fix nics and save lives. I think they would handle it promptly and thoroughly, and i think they would help promote Public Safety with that information at least two other questions over three minutes so let me move but i would welcome further engagement on this point, i think this is a common sense simple way to enforce the books, election interference has meant a lot of questioning which is constructive i think about chinas intelligence efforts United States, i also want to make sure we talked for about russias election interference and i appreciate your clear statements that they exerted improper influence on our 2016 election and they have not stopped trying they are still coming we have not successfully deterred them, on the appropriations subcommittee in which i served we put 380 million into strengthening election infrastructure two years ago, zero last year. It is my hope we will invest more in a state and local election infrastructure, but you have created in the fbi the Foreign Influence Task force, the things im concerned about is socalled deep fakes and falls manipulated misleading media clips, that are very difficult for the average viewer to discern, wha steps is the fbi taking to address deep fakes it in a number of briefings that here is one of the most likely next order threats in the 2020 election . Well, certainly we share the concern about deep fakes as a potential tool not just frankly in the foreign influence space, that you have referenced but any number of other context, one of the things that i did not that long ago, was bring together all of our top executives for presentation at a discussion led by our office of Technology Division which has the best expertise from a technological perspective on this, i think the real challenge with deep fakes is that without the right kind of training, it is very hard for somebody to be able to distinguish and to be able to unpack what is a deep fakes versus what is not, we are looking at different technologies that we might be able to have the help unravel that so there is maybe some technological solutions, we are also trying to look at ways to partner with the private sector on it because there is a role where i think they could play, so i do not think i have anything specific to report here but i could assure you that this is a subject that has the concern i really everybody at the top of the fbi. I appreciate your clear voice on the ongoing efforts by russia to interfere in our election i hope we will have the benefit of a similar and clear voice about the risks of a deep fakes, last question for you if i could, i spent friday in mcallen, texas with a number of my colleagues many colleagues both parties have visited the border recently, it became clear to me in the conversations i had with a few dozen of migrants that they were all from Central America and had all fled significant violence and lack of order and this is in el salvador, there is a program with the fbi, the Legal Program that has made a real difference and i appreciated your highlighting that in your prepared remarks tell me more if you would about how the fbi and programs like the transnational Antigang Task Force are making a difference in confronting a Gang Violence in the northern triangle and thus changing some of the circumstances that drive families to make the very difficult decision to risk more than t1000 mile journey to our southern border because i frankly think it is in our interest to use our skills, strengths and habilities like the fbi to change the conditions in Central America to change the outcome. Certainly senator, we agree with you, that our efforts through what we call the tag units in Central America are one of the ways to which we at the fbi can do our part to help contribute to Border Security but also just more generally, the safety of americans here inside the u. S. The tag units essentially provide a wave for us down in el salvador and in a couple of the other northern triangle countries, to act and use the local Law Enforcement as a force multiplier so we provide some of our expertise some of our experience, some of our partnerships, and then working with larger groups of local Law Enforcement it helps them learn while doing it but also helps them be more effective in tackling a very serious criminal problem down there, i have met with officials from that part of the world, as they have come to visit me, in the u. S. And something we are very proud of and we think we want to double down on if we can. Are you requesting additional funding . Have you had any difficulty in terms of the continuity of effort . I think we are humming along we had some skiers but i think we are moving forward. I have questions for the record i will send you about this Recognition Technology and we are working with state databases and i just will add to it, the senator whitehouse range with background checks and i look forward to talking to you further. Thank you for your testimony today. Welcome, when you came to my office, i discussed with you like i do every person that comes to my office for a nomination, combination. Want to bring up about whistleblowers and respect for and number two, we answered all of our letters. And i usually advise people in the last five years instead of saying yes, they ought to say maybe. Yb so, i do not know whether you said yes or maybe, but it turns out maybe. So for example, some of my oversight requests, some dating back over a year, february 2018, i am quite honored into the, i inquired into the tragedy at parkland, florida, 19 lives were lost, march 2018, i chaired a hearing on that shooting, the fbi told the Judiciary Committee that it was working on the report, in internal process failures. Relating to among other things, the intake procedure for call in tips. And what transpired in the parkland case. Ay as of today, the fbi has not provided a report to congress. Is the report complete . I dont know if i can speak to that itself, but i can tell you senator. Is the report complete . And as i sit here i know i do not know whether it is complete what i do know is that we have completed a significant investigation is, an internal investigation into what happened out there and made a whole number of changes on b, i would be ephappy to provide mor information about what happened. Lets say you do not know whether the report is complete, you have given us an update on it i appreciate that, let me ask you this, when the report is completed will congress get it . I would be happy to see what information we can provide about the work we have done im not trying to play word games with you here i just do not know enough about the specific report that you are referring to, the documents. I do know fthat we would be happy to provide detailed information to you and any other member of congress about the hard work that has been done to improve our Public Access. Except for National Security or except for privacy. What could it be made public about what the fbi did right or wrong . I think we would be happy to provide you more information about it. Okay. On may 9, senator johnson and i wrote you a letter about documents that the state department provided the fbi after it mapped request of wrist deal, when senator johnson and i expected a response. When can we was, when . I will have to ask my staff to look into that. And we will get back to you. According to news reports, the fbi waited months before pursuing sexual abuse allegations made by olympic gymnast. Last july, senator feinstein ai blumenthal and i sent you a letter to request a briefing on the matter, we are still waiting. When can we expect a response to our letter and a briefing . Well, senator r on that particular matter, we, as you may know, there is an ongoing Inspector General investigation so we essentially turned that matter over from our Inspection Division to Inspector General horwitz and his team, and so we are awaiting the results of the investigation and would be ce happy to engage with you in your office upon completion of the Inspector Generals investigation. Is he supposed to report to you or to the public . Probably both, i would assume. Okay, i have sent several letters to the fbi regarding the investigation in the shooting of bijan i think it is now 18 months old. Im not familiar with the investigation but i believe it is still ongoing so it would be premature for us to provide any substantive information at this point. You know, you kind of get the feeling with several of these instances that there might be something out there that is going to embarrass the fbi. Are you worried about embarrassing the fbi . If some of this stuff is made public . Am not, having us withhold any information out of fear of embarrassment to the fbi. We take our share of lumps, and i embrace that as a part of the process. If there has been a share of mistakes, i eathink you have played an Important Role in highlighting some of those mistakes and i think one of the things that distinguishes the fbi from a lot of other organizations is our commitment to learning from those mistakes. I wrote you a letter in april concerning the case of special agent parkinson. He made protected disclosures and was dismissed. But after he won his case against the bureau, and was reinstated his security clearance was reenrolled. I have not received a response, does the fbi revoke security clearances as a way of getting around Court Decisions favorable to an employee . And then, can i get response to my letter . Im not familiar with the specific matters so let me ask my staff more about it and we will get back to you on that one. Okay. As i have written about, publicly before the Justice Department Inspector General produced congress highly classified document relating to clinton investigation. Here is an excerpt from the Inspector Generals unclassified report, on the clinton investigation related to the classified report. Quote, although the meteor team drafted a memorandum to the Deputy Attorney general in late may 2016, stating that review of a highly classified materials was necessary to complete the investigation and requesting permission to access them, the fbi never sent this request. To the department. So this tells us four things, when the fbi apparently had highly classified information potentially irrelevant to the clinton investigation and its precession, the fbi drafted him memo on may 20 16th to gain access to the information, the memo said the review of the information was necessary to complete the investigation. The memo was never sent. Question, director wray, how could the fbi complete the clinton investigation if it did not review the potential relative information related to it . And lastly, do you know of any other examples where the investigation was completed without the fbi reviewing potentially relevant evidence within its possession . Well senator, as to the pacific example, you cited, i am generally familiar with the fact that i am a little concerned and i recognize that you are reading from an unclassified document but im a little bit concerned that my ability to address it in this setting is a somewhat limited so let me circle back with my staff. I will be waiting for that information. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here today, director wray and thank you for your service to our country and the men and women who every day courageously go after threats against our nation and i want to say that i regret some of the attacks that have come from the highest levels of our government. And, i respect that you have to continue to work without responding to them, directly. But, i think you have a lot of supporters and friends in this body and around the country. I want to ask you, about the threats identified by members of congress i appreciate the fbis responsiveness to them. I am concerned that these threats are increasing and that they have been condoned and indeed, encouraged. By the president of the United States, i would like to know what is being done proactively not just responsibly, but proactively, to protect members who have been targeted by the president , his attacks which may ignite White Supremacists and nationalists and organizations. Well, obviously i cannot discuss any particular investigation but i do not take you to be asking me for that, i would say that we have a very Good Relationship and Good Partnership with the Security Professionals up here on the hill, and we try to work collaboratively with them, especially through the Washington Field office to try to make sure that we are giving them the right kind of information so that they can be even more effective in helping protect you and your colleagues. Are you concerned as i am and others are about the increasing number and intensity . Of those attacks . The threatened attacks . I think we are very concerned about any threats of violence against any americans c but certainly that would probably include our elected officials. And are you concerned that the president s rhetoric in fact is having a negative impact not only on those threats but on other americans in terms of encouraging hate crimes. You know senator i do not really engage on rhetoric, or social media commentary, our focus is on violence, on attempts to commit violence on conspiracies to commit violence, and we will aggressively pursue that whether the victims are members of congress or any other americans. Let me turn to another area, and i know you are well informed about it, survivors of the 9 11 terrorist attacks on this country are engaged in an epic legal battle. Against the kingdom of saudi arabia. For its complicity and there is mounting credible evidence that it 9 embedded its 9 11 attacker seeking justice from them, in fact along with senator schumer and senator cornyn i was proud to lead the justice against sponsors of terrorism act that opened the courthouse doors to their lawsuit. I was proud also to work with senator cornyn on a resolution passed unanimously by the United States senate. That called on the federal government to declassify documents related to the 9 11 attacks quote to the greatest extent possible. So, those 9 11 families are fighting the government of saudi arabia seeking just as they are now also fighting our own government. Including your agency to secure fbi documents that they believe are relevant to their litigation and to finally determining the role that saudi arabia played in those 9 11 attacks. Two of those survivors and family members are with us today in the hearing room, brett and tom, brett lost his dad, bruce who was last seen climbing the stairs of the south tower, seeking to help his colleagues, he perished. And he made it out of the south tower on that terrible day but he continues to suffer the mental and physical costs of that experience and he continues to mourn as we all do. The ones who were lost, so i am asking you for a commitment that the fbi will release all of the documents that are relevant to this litigation that you will not invoke the state secrets act, which has been raised as a possibility. And that you will provide full transparency to those families who are simply seeking justice. Against saudi arabia, in the face of very significant mounting evidence, powerful evidence, that they aided and abetted that crime that killed thousands of americans. Well senator, i am not going to engage on the specific litigation certainly here in this setting you, what i will say on a very personal level, is that i was in fbi headquarters on 9 11, i met during my time as assistant attorney general with many, many, many of the victims of the 9 11 attacks. And it was a big part of my motivation for coming back into service and one of the things that i have done since becoming fbi director, mindful of the fact that as time passes we get further and further away atfrom those attacks and our workforce ages out of the kind of acute realtime appreciation of the horror that occurred on that morning. We have, i have directed that all new agents and analysts of the fbi go as part of their training to the 9 11 memorial and museum so that they can see in particular, the victim impact of our work and of getting it right, and i am very sympathetic and i say that just from a personal level so you know that i am extremely sympathetic to those families, i am also extremely sympathetic to all of the families of future potential terrorist threats that i want to prevent. And i want to make sure that our handling of secret information is done in a way that balances both of those concerns. I, do not doubt your sympathy. But, these documents are absolutely necessary to, they are having a fair chance to proving their case. And, i am concerned that the fbi may invoke the state secrets privilege. To block the 9 11 families from getting the documents that they need and im asking you for your commitment that you will not invoke it or, block them from getting those documents. And as i said, i am not prepared to make commitments about ongoing litigation or discovery in ongoing litigation here in this setting i can assure you that we will try to be as transparent as i think we can responsibly be while at the same time protecting National Security, yes. Will you meet with families who were represented here today . I would be happy to see whether there is an appropriate meeting that can occur between them and parts of the fbi but again, since this is a subject of litigation i am going to be thoughtful about that. Have you communicated with the white house about this issue of whether these documents will be turned over to the families . Not to my knowledge. Will you give me a list of those documents that you think would be appropriate to turn over and the others that would not be. I would be happy to take a harder look at what the status of that litigation is and whether there is information that we can responsibly provide to be helpful. I am asking, my final question, i am not asking you to be involved in the litigation or comment on the litigation, but simply to provide documents and materials that are in the possession of the fbi, the only reason to keep them secret seems to me at this late date, 19 years later would be to avoid embarrassment. To the Saudi Arabian people and that may be, and interest of the state department, or the white house, that they have shown, very little interest in seeking justice in connection with other saudi criminal activity. With the murder as an example of the president s willingness to ignore the law and logic. But, i think the fbi has an interest in justice. Would you agree . I certainly agree, the fbi has a powerful interest in justice, i also think that especially with your background, you will appreciate why i am not going to be making commitments about document productions in this kind of setting. I appreciate it certainly as a former u. S. Attorney and a former attorney general having worked closely with the fbi but i hope we can continue this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sending the new agents to the 9 11 memorial , we should all probably go. And i have written a letter to senator schumer and mcconnell to give a classified briefing about what is going on in afghanistan, Everybody Needs to understand what is happening in afghanistan. Senator kennedy. Mr. Director, you talked earlier about there being no daylight between the communist party and china and the government and china, and the business community. Does that include Chinese Students in Foreign Countries . It certainly includes some Chinese Students, not all by any stretch of the imagination but some. I need your help in understanding how we are making the distinction, we know, we have a lot of foreign students. That come to our fine universities and are fine universities love them because they pay full freight. They pay full tuition, in fact some of our universities are addicted financially. When a foreign student, lets just take for example, say china. Comes to mit lets say. And works in a lab there. On new technology that is being developed. Are we relying on the universities to determine whether the students are stealing intellectual property . Well, i would say the university certainly plays an Important Role, there may be situations where we through our investigative work and that somebody is trying to steal it so we both play a role. Here is where im getting to, we have thousands of students coming. To our american universities many of them are in Research Labs and many of them are privy to sensitive intellectual property. How do we check them . Whose job is it to check them . You cannot check, fbi cannot check every single student. That comes to the United States. If we are relying on a university to do it, my guess is a lot of them do not know how. And frankly some of them probably do not care. As long as they are getting tuition. Well, i think you are onto the right point, right, which is there is a role for the universities to play but we need to make sure that we are supplying them with you said whether they know or whether they care, whether they have both the tools that we can give them to ask the right questions, to elicit the right information, on the one hand, but also to be thoughtful about what of their information is most proprietary and most sensitive and there might be different for example between a student who comes in to do basic undergraduate work, and a student on the other extreme, who is working on some of the most sensitive Technological Research this country has. So as far as should they care part of it, one of the things the fbi is spending a lot of time doing is out on the ground engaging with universities and Research Labs, etc. To try to help them understand the nature of the threat, what to be on the lookout for, etc. So there is a common defense. Should we not have a rule, mr. Director that says look, if you are from another country, not just china, but other countries. And you are coming to this university to be involved with this research, then the university has to apply and receive a deemed export license. And do not tell me that the student is just observing. We are going to be cautious here and Say University go get a deemed export license. Well, im not an expert on deemed export licenses, i think that maybe rolls for rule changes etc. That might help us collectively better protect the country in a most sensitive spaces. I do not think our universities are doing it i think some are and some are doing a good job and i think others say oh, it is not my responsibility. And by the way, there tuition check is cashed, you know, i see exactly where youre coming from i guess what i would say is my experience now and having gone out and about around the country and met with all 56 field offices as well as with partners including in the academic sector and off a lot of those states. Is that there is a growing number of universities which are much smarter now about this issue, then they used to be, it is not necessarily where we need to be. They are and of course the cow is out the barn in many respects, the universities were not shy about inviting Confucius Institutes to their campuses. And were glad to have the money. I mean, australia has the same things, Many Australian universities are addicted to the tuition from Chinese Students. Im not criticizing australia, wonderful and great country, god bless them, but this has become a serious problem and i sense you are spread thin, i sense that we are relying on our universities and its great to educate them but, as long as those tuition checks clear, some of them arent going to really participate and i think what we need is some sort of rule that in these particular technologies, you got to go, you have to go get a deemed export license. Let me shift gears. Is the fbi involved in the investigation in chicago of the Jussie Smollet situation . I do not know if i can say we are involved in that specific investigation or not. That is fair. I consider you, first, i consider you to be doing a great job, i think you have settled the waters and i really appreciate it. Thank you. And i do not think you are a politician, that is what i like about you. I think you are a good lawyer, and you care about the fbi. And i consider you the nations chief Law Enforcement official if not one of the chiefs. I dont mean to denigrate the attorney general, he heis up there as well. Why do so Many Americans today in your judgment hate cops just because they are cops . You know i think there is some level of misunderstanding about what Law Enforcement does and doesnt do, and that is probably a part of it, but i also think far more americans revere Law Enforcement then sometimes the media would otherwise suggest. And that is one of the advantages i have found to getting out of washington. And trying to visit all 56 field offices and to visit not only the men and women of state and local Law Enforcement, and each of those states but also to meet with people in the community from each of those states because is a better way for me to get a sense of how people think about Law Enforcement so, i dont think most people hate Law Enforcement, the most people are grateful for Law Enforcement but the reality is that there is a level of violence that is occurring in this country and a willingness to use lethality against Law Enforcement that i think we just cannot abide and we need to be finding ways to make those people who work so hard every day more safe. Thank you mr. Chairman. The vote is on and we will continue and just kind of keep going and try to get you out of here by 1 pm if we possibly can are you okay to keep going . Thank you mr. Chairman, you noted that ricky agents visit 9 11 memorials, and there was a time when part of the training for incoming fbi agents was to visit the Holocaust Museum, do you still do that . Not only do we still do the visits to the Holocaust Museum, as a part of our training, but i have personally gone and i wanted to go through it myself not only did i reaffirm it but i actually went with a class, and spoke to the class and went along with the tour so i could get a sense of what they are learning as they go through that, we also require you may be interested to know, the third leg of the stool if you will, you have the holocaust memorial, the 9 11 Memorial Museum which i added and we also have all agents go to the Martin Luther king memorial here in dc. Your predecessor, director comay had made note of the importance as far as he was concerned of the experience of revisiting the Holocaust Museum and i do not know if you have heard what he has said, let me just quote him, to see that although this, the slaughter, the holocaust was led by sick and evil people, those of sick and evil leaders are joined by people who love their families who stoop to a sick neighbor and went to church and gave the charity, the good people helped murder millions and that is the most threatening lesson of all that are very humanity made us capable of even susceptible to rendering our individual moral authority to the group where it can be hijacked by evil, but be so caught by those in power, by convincing ourselves of nearly anything. Im really glad that your agents visit these museums and i wonder if you agree with your predecessors comments. About why it is so important for your agencies to experience these museums. Im not sure i cut everything that you read from the quote i will say that from my own perspective, one of the things i found most eyeopening about lyons visit with a class, going to the holocaust memorial, was the really scary role that Law Enforcement in that time played, i think most people i as a kid growing up in this country assumed that most of the atrocities were just committed by the military. In germany and while that is certainly true, there was also very frightening role that Law Enforcement in germany played as well and i think that is one of the parts of the tour that is a little bit tailored for our classes so that they understand in a very personal way, that their profession is one that if they do not do things in the right way, can have horrific consequences. That they have a personal responsibility also, have you read the Mueller Report . Do you consider him to be a person of integrity, and professionalism and your experience with him . In all my experiences with them over the years, i have considered him to be the consummate professional and a straight shooter. Do you have any reason to doubt his report . The Mueller Reports, the findings and physically, how he went about the investigation of the russia interference with our elections . Do you have any reason to doubt the integrity of his work . No. So in your written testimonyr you mentioned a threat of domestic violent extremists as one of your priorities, you talked about quoting underlying drives for domestic violent extremism which includes according to you, racism, anti semitism, islamic phobia, so can racist and divisive comments from leaders contribute to the problem of domestic violent extremism . My sense is theres all kinds of things that contribute to the often sort of deranged extremism that occurs. You never know what will set off a lone wolf but would you say that comments from National Leaders that are very racist and divisive can also create a situation where a lone wolf might act . I think extremist rhetoric by anybody can have the effect, any public figure can have the effect of inspiring people but remember, that the people who commit hate fueled violence, are not logical and rational people, yes. Thats why i would say it would be dangerous to speak in a way that would encourage or in some way incentivize a person who is unhinged, let me turn to the 37 agency that you run and you do have strict hr policies based on standards laid out by the equal limit opportunity commission, if one employee at the fbi told another employee who was a minority or an immigrant to go back where they came from, what would the consequences be knowing full well that the u. S. Equal Employment Opportunity commission has made it very clear that such comments should subject the person to some kind of disciplinary action . Im not going to engage in hypotheticals but what i will tell you, is that all of us at the fbi are committed to core values of respect, of fairness, of diversity, we all have mentor procedures and policies that are in place to provide outlets for people who are the victims of any kind of improper discrimination or harassment, and we are firmly committed to our core mission of protecting the American People, all American People and protecting and upholding the constitution for all americans. With that be anthe case of o of your employees told another employee to go back where they came from, that would subject them to disciplinary action . Im not going to engage in hypotheticals i expect all of our employees alto comport with our core values and to follow all of our roles and law. Lets hope that that means that you actually follow through with some disciplinary action, so in 2017 a Trump Administration launched the voice office, which stands for victims of simmigration crime engagement is an office dedicated to the victims of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants and this is by repeated evidence that shows that immigrants are in fact less likely to commit crimes, does the fbi have a mechanism for tracking crimes committed against individuals because they are an immigrant or perceived to be an immigrant . I dont believe i have seen information quite like that. But we collect lots of different kind of information so i am reluctant to speak with absolute certainty on that. So, i do not know exactly where the voice office is located, i take it not in fbi. No. We have concerns about the independence of the fbi i want to ask you, how the president or anyone at the white house or the attorney general or anyone at the department of justice asked or suggested that you do anything unlawful or unethical including opening, altering or closing an investigation. As i said to you and your colleagues on the committee during my confirmation hearing i am committed to making sure that the fbi does all of its the book, utterly without partisan motivation or interference, and that has been true since the day i started and it has been true right up on until today. So are you implying that the president nor anyone at the white house or the attorney general has not asked you to open, alter or close an investigation. I cant think of a situation where any of those people has asked me to close an investigation or to do anything remotely inappropriate. That would be including altering and opening an investigation. So, you are very cognizant and committed to the independence of the fbi and the work that you do. Absolutely. Thank you mr. Chairman. Director wray earlier this year, i sent fbi two letters seeking Additional Information about news reports that the agency and the bureau had opened a counterintelligence investigation of the president , following the exercise of the president s constitutional prerogatives to direct Foreign Policy and otherwise oversee branch and i did not receive a response to those letters beyond a form letter acknowledging receipt, since i have you here and i have you under let me ask you, i want to know, to your knowledge has the fbi ever launched a counterintelligence investigation of another president in tAmerican History i dont know the answer to that question. It would be no then since it is to your knowledge, is that right . That you are not aware of one personally that is all i am asking. It is fair to say. His two is it safe to say to your knowledge that it is unprecedented. Well again i dont think, we been around for 111 years, so i dont really know what is president or not president in that regard. You do not have any knowledge of any previous counterintelligence investigation of a sitting president . Not sitting here at this moment. A would it be unusual for fbi agents to hide the results of an investigation from their superiors . Certainly in my experience for agents to hide information from their superiors would be unusual. What can you tell us finally about the internal investigation into the decision to launch this counterintelligence probe and where it stands when he might hear about it and when he might expect results. So there are two things going on, one is the ongoing fairly far along i would i guess i would say, investigation by the Inspector General. Which is somewhat related to the topic you raise. That is by the independent Inspector General over the Justice Department and then separately, as i think, has been testified to publicly the attorney general, has asked some questions about the manner in which the investigation in questions began. And, we are working with him or cooperating with them to try to help him get those questions answered. But i do not think i have any kind of status update or anything like that at this point it is very much underway. You are aware that this major under me you are aware of two different probes if you will to two different investigations or inquiries in a way that touch on this topic that we have been discussing. Right, there is some overlap between them probably, and they both in their own ways touch on different aspects of what you described. And your, the fbi is fully and cooperating. Yes. Let me shift gears, and talk about chinese espionage, i want to ask you more specifically about Confucius Institutes which you touched on briefly with senator kennedy a moment ago, 18 months ago you were before the Senate Intelligence committee you said you were concerned about chinese espionage universities, quote from you, the use of you are concerned about the use of nontraditional collectors especially the academic setting where there are professors and scientists and students and you say you see it in a most every field office the fbi has around the country and he went on to say the chinese are exploiting the very open research and Development Environment that we have and you have reiterated those concerns here this morning, do you continue to consider chinese espionage activities focused on research and ip theft to be serious threat i mean you see that as continuing to be an ongoing threat . Two very much so, i think an awful lot of the most Sensitive Research that is conducted across either military or dual use technologies but also in areas like healthcare and things like that, are conducted in our leading academic institutions and there is a fairly significant pattern of espionage that is occurring in that arena so that is something we are concerned about. Let me ask you about Confucius Institutes, and will, why should we be concerned, what are the American Public, why for that matter, American University College President s u be concerned about Confucius Institutes on their campuses could you just spell it out . Sure, so my answer that i just gave was more broadly about the academic sector, the Confucius Institutes are a source of concern but we have viewed those as more of chinas soft power strategy and influence, in other words, those offer a platform to disseminate Chinese Government or Chinese Communist Party Propaganda to encourage censorship to restrict academic freedom, etc. So it is an area of concern, and we are actually encouraged, somewhat similar to the answer i was giving to senator kennedy by the growing number of universities in this country over the last few years that have taken steps to restrict and Cartel Cartel things on campuses i would say we are more concerned though about what i would consider more traditional efforts at either cyber intrusion or espionage, both in the Research Facilities themselves, and in the private sector as i have testified about a little bit here today. Just on the institutes again for one minute, what would you say to a University President who is considering partnering and allowing with the Confucius Institute or allowing an institute on her campus i mean what would you, what considerations do you think that University President ought to have in mind . I would think a University President ought thto do an awfu lot of homework and we would be happy to have the local field office said done with them and talk to them about what we know, that can be shared about the institutes, so that they can make a thoughtful decision themselves about whether it is something they really want to have on their campus. On the more to use your phrase more traditional forms of espionage in the Chinese Government and militaries employing, do you think that do you think it is time for new legislation to help secure and protect our universities from that kind of espionage and are there tools that we could give you that you think would be beneficial . I dont know if i have a specific legislative proposal but i do think that the level of awareness that is starting to increase in this country, including in the academic sector and of course, you and your colleagues have played an Important Role in helping raise awareness, i think it is positive, and ti think it is time for a National Conversation about how we can all play our respective roles in helping to protect the country. I introduced legislation that would require students, graduates students or researchers from china and several other countries that we know engage in espionage activity, meto get an additiona screeningre by the Department O Homeland Security if they voare replying to work on a research project, that involves either classified information or, high security, high Risk Security information as designated by the department now i am not asking you to endorse that but is that kind of, are those kind of additional screenings and background checks for folks that come from countries who have a history of espionage and who want to work on projects that are sensitive or classified, is that the kind of thing that you think we should be concerned about looking for ways to protect . As you say, i have not reviewed the specific legislation but i think as a general rule, both making sure that universities especially some of our universities that are leaders in science and technology, really know who it is they are bringing in. So that is the who on the one hand, and then on the what, on the other side, what information are they actually giving those people the ability to work on . Not all information and en research is created alike just like not all visitors are created alike in terms of the potential threat that it presents to our National Security. Thank you. Senator graham has asked me to keep it somewhere on time. I dont mean to cut off my friend but because there are votes going on, i noticed in your testimony it said you visited all of our states, did you visit vermont or did you visit the albany station . I visited all 56 field offices and then when i was in the Albany Field Office which as you know, has vermont as a part of it ar, i met with quite a number of yes. But i met with a number of the Law Enforcement officials from vermont, yes. Come to vermont sometime, i am sure they would like to see you, i know i would. But we have known for months, search warrants in the Michael Cohen investigation of President Trump is an unindicted coconspirator in a criminal Campaign Finance scheme, to cover up an affair with hush money payment, the crime occurred both during the campaign and while mr. Trump was in the oval office he signed hush money checks while serving as president. But the investigation ended abruptly last week. Only Michael Cohen facing consequences. So my question is, its not clear from what was in the press, that this investigation ran its full course. Certainly no one interviewed the president. Do you know whether the decision to close the investigation is made by prosecutors in the Southern District of new york . Or buy, appointees at main justice in washington . Well, the decision to decline a matter involving prosecutorial discretion is of course made by the prosecutors and in this instance i do not know exactly who made the decision. You dont know whether it is washington or new york . I dont know which prosecutors were involved. Do you know whether they were in washington or new york . I dont know the answer to that. Thank you. Have you been are e. You awar of any political questions and political pressure that may have been brought about in that decision . I am not aware of any political pressure. We know the Justice Department believes a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime. And then, for the time being, they leave such matters to congress and the public. Now, since this investigation is now closed, as we just talked about, will you release the 302s . And other relevant files in the hush money investigation . Well, senator it is not normally our practice to produce investigative information for investigations that are closed. Especially when it comes to other individuals in the matter, i think that is a part of the protection that we provide, through the confidentiality of the work we do. On that confidentiality, you provide a congress 880 thousand pages of investigative documents. Relating to the clinton email investigation. Had also included 46 interview 302s. Provided to senator grassley and myself as tenormin of the Ranking Member of the committee. And while you served, the fbi Gave Congress thousands of pages related to activity of russia contacts with the Trump Campaign then, the investigation was still ongoing. Im not suggesting that this administration would treat the investigation of Hillary Clinton differently than the investigation involving donald trump. But it might appear that way. Because if you dont release these files now, it is contrary to your recent president. The case that the fbi only provides investigative records from the request that is made by a republican officials. Well senator, yes. I figure the 880,000 pages and the 46 interview and 302s. It is certainly the case that in my first two years almost, as fbi director, we have been engaged with numerous committees and countless oversight requests, involving all sorts of things we try very hard to be as transparent as we can be with congressional oversight while at the same time protecting ongoing investigations and protecting confidentiality respecting the privacy of charged individuals, protecting and respecting secrecy and there is a whole slew of things that we try to balance my experience as we try to work through each one on a casebycase basis. Will you release the 302s and the other relevant files in that hush money investigation the same way you did on the clinton investigation . I would be happy to take a look at any requests from you or any other member of the hill and see if theres any more information we can provide. Consider that a request and lets you and i talk about it in the next few days because i do not want to be just a run, ive spent a few years here. I know answers that are real and i want to hit a real answer. Earlier this year, the nsa stopped using the call detail Records Authority authorized by usa freedom, and is not asking to be reauthorized. You mentioned this morning, the fbi would Like Congress to reauthorize the Business Records, wiretap, lone wolf provision. Usa freedom, which expires in december, 15. Yet, we have not heard anything from the white house and their position regarding authorization. The only reason i mentioned, its only five months away from these 36 and it can be a lifetime in the senate. Its been radio silence from the white house. Do you know when or if they plan to finally share their position of reauthorization with congress . Im not aware of a formal Administration Position on it usa freedom act or of the precise timing for when there will be one. My description earlier in response to questions was not a formal request for reauthorization but rather a description of some of the, what we had the fbi feel are some of the most important tools. We can follow up on that. The department of Homeland Security plays a Critical Role based on your testimony, if they were held today are you confident that the state and local Election Officials are prepared to defend against Cyber Attacks and i ask that because the attorneys general 22 state attorney generals we will put the letter in the record. Americans should feel confident in our collections and our electoral system. The doesnt mean there are not threats facing it and it doesnt mean there isnt a lot of work, hard work already being done that needs to be done still between us, our colleagues at dhs, nsa, state and local officials, congress, private sector. This is an American Issue for all of us, we all need to Work Together. Americans should feel confident we have the finest selection system in the world. Thank you we will talk further on that. Senator block bring you are recognize. Thank you so. Mr. Ready i want to thank you for your patience today and as you are aware we have i appreciate you have reached out to local Law Enforcement when they do have that loss of live from there forth in the tribute you pay there. I will tell you, in tennessee when i talk to people what they are concerned about with the fbi is that they have agents that are going to tell the truth because they know if they raise their hand and take an oh they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Building, rebuilding that confidence and integrity in the system i think is of paramount importance. I appreciate your putting attention on that. I want to talk with you about the Opioid Crisis. The Opioid Crisis has taken such a toll in tennessee. We know now that it is more than double the debt from homicide. Actually 2. 4 opioid deaths for each death from homicide. I know you have had the appalachian strikeforce. Id like an update on that. I know you issued 50 medical professionals had an indictment issued it by d. O. J. Against them. They issued 32 million pills and we know you are working on the fraud issues. We had a pain clinic with fraud issues. When i talked to local Law Enforcement most of the crime they are dealing with has a nexus with the drug issue. Talk with me a little more about how you are managing that, strikeforce, while you are partnering with d. A. And local Law Enforcement and the continued emphasis you expect to have on the opioid issue . Thank you, senator. I appreciate you flagging the issue. I noticed top of mind for a lawful lot of people in this country is a should be. May be interested to know the very first of the 56 field offices i have visited was knoxville and i have now made my way around, round two have been to knoxville twice in addition to of course the memphis field office. The reason i bring up knoxville, the office in particular for example has done very good work in the opioid arena. I would say our overall our focus on this threat is much like i said to some of your colleagues on a couple other threats we face to try to figure out where do we, the fbi best add value that complements what everyone else is doing. D. A. , state and local Law Enforcement and of course in this arena public health, etc. What is that with the fbi . One we have, you alluded to it we have a Prescription Drug initiative. That is where we are going after in the healthcare arena, medical professionals, pill mills, medicare and medicaid fraud, nurses, pharmacies, the kind of thing. Thats a big part of the problem. A place we bring unique expertise. Second we have safe streets task forces all over the country. Those target gangs distributing opioids. And fentanyl and related substances. We also have something called jcode dismantling darknet marketplaces for opiates. Also there are transactional organized crime program, a focus on the Transnational Criminal Organizations that are the source of the supply. And i guess the last piece i would mention is from an awareness raising perspective we have done things like partner with d. A. On a film called chasing the dragon which we put out in schools together. I think it has a slew of youtube hits for example. A way to raise awareness from a prevention perspective. Let me ask you, jcode, i know right now we have 30 child pornography sites operating on the darkwa. This is on top of what we see through a lot of that is happening with a lot of the apps that are out there that pedophiles are using and groups are using to traffic women and children. I have done a good bit of work on this issue and it is just heart wrenching. To me. Is jcode, as you are looking through that and at the cartels, are you following the Human Trafficking with that initiative, as well as the Drug Trafficking . Or, is there an additional emphasis on that Human Trafficking component . Good question. I would say the jcode initiative is a dark net focus program more geared toward the opioid trafficking, Drug Trafficking we also have all kinds of dark net efforts focused more on Human Trafficking and various other i would assume at some point there is a juncture because right now the cartels are making more money on trafficking humans than they are on trafficking drugs or that is my understanding. And we definitely want to get after that. Let me ask you one more thing, when it comes to the issue of illegal immigration, legal entry. Ncic is not collecting reentry data or prior deportation data on these illegal aliens. We talk about criminal illegal aliens that is something our local Law Enforcement has to deal with quite a bit. If n were to change their protocol and begin to collect and collate that data, do you think that would be helpful . Is there a value to doing that . I think i would want to evaluate more closely what would be involved. I would be happy to take a closer look at a. That sounds great. Lets see, i guess i am the last one. Mr. White house . Thank you. I guess it is going to be a very brief second round. If senator blackburn leaves, only one left authorized to close the hearing by chairman graham if nobody else comes in the meantime. Director wray, relief is in sight. I want to follow up a little bit with had a good discussion today about foreign interference in elections. And i am interested in your thoughts on the role of shell corporations that obscure the identity of the true actor behind the show corporation. In the jargon of this area is called the Beneficial Owner, the true, Beneficial Owner of the corporation. Can you tell me the kind of ways in which the obscurity provided by such shell corporations interferes with Law Enforcement efforts generally . As a general matter, shell corporations, dummy entities in one sort of another, are often used as a way to conceal the true owner of a business. That ben can have the effect of not only frustrating regulatory requirements, but also of course Law Enforcement efforts. We spent a lot of our time across the vectors we investigate, having to cut through the form over substance quality that exists, alter egos that innocents are critically Beneficial Ownership. Money laundering, fraud, criminal investigations, counterterrorism investigations all affected by this . I cant think of a lot of counterterrorism investigations off the top of my head but im sure there have been some certainly the first few you listed does this problem create National Security concerns in addition to Law Enforcement concerns to the extent that foreign actors might be behind those shell corporations . There certainly can be times there are National Security concerns. For example one of the things we are trying to do more now in the foreign influence space is more aggressively use the Foreign Agent Administration Act to breakthrough not just the openly declared Foreign Agents but various other entities created that might in effect be operating that way. Are pushing into New Territory there. In foreign interference in our political system can be directly facilitated by show corporations, correct . Absolutely. I would flag for you and mr. Zuckerberg of facebook was here, he rolled out his new and improved facebook method for detecting efforts to buy political advertising on facebook and disclosed that he was going to go as far as the nominal buyer, but not look behind the nominal buyer to see who the real party and interest was. I described this as boris and natasha llc in delaware and suddenly boom that is the end of their inquiry. I think its important we continue to focus because some of our leading political platform seem to be taking very little interest in finding out who is behind the show corporation. Obviously you need to know that if you are effective. The last thing i will ask you about is, there is the famous phrase on Law Enforcement, follow the money. Clearly money is a tool used for foreign influence and political systems by russia and other adversaries, correct . Yes. If you cannot tell who the real donor is, for a big political expenditure that leaves a very obvious avenue for foreign interference to assert itself, does not . Certainly any effort to conceal the true source behind an effort at foreign interference is something we have to take seriously and can present significant challenges. And money flowing into politics as a vector for the foreign interference . It can be okay that is thank you very much senator booker will do his first round and will go to senator leahy and we will finish at 1 00. Thank you. Director wray for your patience. Chairman thank you very much appreciate it director wray thanks so much for being here. I like to go into a subject matter you and i have discussed before individually with the Congressional Black Caucus and others in senator durbin i know brought it up, i watched that back and forth. You said in the conversation you dont investigate ideology but clearly for jihadists to supremacists, the motivating factor helps in your investigation, correct . Certainly ideology can be a very important part of an investigation if there is all the other pieces we have to have to be able to investigate. This is worrying me right now, the significance of white supremacist the tax. We have had, since 9 11, a lot of terrorist attacks but the majority have been right wing, here in the United States, from court the majority have been right wing extremist attacks, the majority have been White Supremacists. Is that correct . I want to be a little careful what i am counting and the numerator or denominator of what i will say that certainly domestic terrorism, violent extremism of all shapes and sizes when it turns to violence is something that is of great concern that is continuing, steady persistent serious threat we are taking very seriously and i will say that at least over some recent memory, an awful lot of the racially motivated violent extremism is motivated by what you might call kind of a white supremacist type of idealogy. I guess is what i want to drill down on. We know from a 2017 declassified joint intelligence briefing from 2000 2016 that white supremacist extremists are responsible for more homicides than other domestic Extremist Group as a 40 in a report declassified. Based on your testimony the number of arrests this year of internationally inspired home grown extremists is roughly the same as the number of arrest for Domestic Violence extremist, the majority of whom again are all the. Supremacist groups. To me that is a stunning data point, a stunning amount of violence occurring in our country by White Supremacy and why it is all the more important we understand the full scope of that threat. I know you take this very seriously. For more than a decade the fda if you use 11 different categories to describe and document domestic terrorist threats and these categories included a separate category for white activity or white activity or incidents thats correct, right . Yes. Okay. But now the administration is using a system with only four categories and one of those categories is called racially motivated violent extremism. That is correct, right . We do have four categories one is called racially motive this new category combines incidents involving White Supremacists with a new category we have discussed before called black identity extremists. So that is really problematic to me. When did the fbi eliminate the white supremacist category, the last number of years in favor of that racially motivated violent extremism category . Let me say this. We have tried to make clear, and some of it frankly is based on conversations you and i had about not the white supremacist part but the other part. We had some very constructive, hardhitting conversations early on about that. One of the points we tried to emphasize to our folks across all of these factors is that we only investigate violence. We dont investigate extremism, we dont investigate ideology, we dont investigate rhetoric. It doesnt matter how repugnant how important or whatever it is. Has to be the three things for there to be that investigation. What we have tried to do by re categorization is make clear that it is about the violence, not about the ideology. And that is the nature of the category. If i can make this point then, this new category of black identity extremism has caused extreme concern. It has caused concern amidst the Law Enforcement community and you know that members of the Law Enforcement community, in november of 2017, the National Organization of black Law Enforcement executives issued a pretty strong statement that black identity extremism really is hurting the community and the ability for Law Enforcement. You have seen the reaction from both congressional leaders and the more. Resurrected the historic legacy of africanamerican civil rights leaders unconsciously targeted and attacked by federal, state and local Law Enforcement agencies. The investigative merits of the report do not warrant the belief that an idealogy movement is even there, that exists among africanamericans. It predisposes them to negatively target Law Enforcement officers. Quite specifically how many Violent Attacks, you are investigating violence, how many Violent Attacks and facilities have been attributed to White Supremacists since 2017 and how many Violent Attacks and fatalities have been attributed to socalled black identity extremists since august, 2017 . I dont have numbers of that sort here sitting have there been any to your knowledge, attacks attributed to socalled black identity extremists . Has there been any since 2017 . Whatsoever . The socalled new movement . I think we have had attacks within the racially motivated violent extremist category that cover both ends of the spectrum if you will. That language you said both ends of the spectrum. Murders at synagogues, murders we have seen motivated since 2017 that you previously had to deal with. You said both ends of the spectrum is if there is a movement of, again, black identity extremism. Almost creating this reality that there is a spectrum that goes back and forth. Im really questioning that language. We dont use the term black identity extremism anymore, first. Second, you mentioned the National Organization of black Law Enforcement executives. Ive met on countless occasions with them. Of i that partnership and we have discussed with them, as well, some of the efforts we are making to try to better categorize the work we are doing this is news to me you no longer use the black identity extremism, that is no more . Thats correct. Thats great news nobodys being surveilled or investigated on the black identity extremism . We dont use that terminology anymore. That was part of the reorganization of all of our domestic terrorism threat categorizations. That terminology went away. As part of this racially motivated violence extremism category. Whatever properly predicated investigations there are or were, that would be previously under that label would now be within this racially motivated violent extremism category. Okay. I look forward to continuing the conversation. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Senator leahy, take us to 1 00. Thank you mr. Chairman. A few months ago we held a series of confirmation proceedings regarding justice, not. Those became contentious, something of a public spectacle. As was mentioned earlier, there were a number of allegations made in some cases, then Committee Chairman senator grassley concluded that some of the people making the accusations had knowingly made materially false accusations against justice cavanaugh. On that basis, referred the matter to the fbi for investigation. What if anything can you tell me about what action the fbi has taken on that or whether it has followed up . I am aware, as a general matter of the letters of the referrals that you are describing and i know we have reviewed them but i am not, as i think you would expect, going to be commenting on or confirming the existence or nonexistence of an investigation. I understand. I appreciate the fact that you have received it and as you can imagine it is important to the process and to this committee, that those appearing and testifying in front of, not be allowed to knowingly make materially false statements and hope and expect that is going to be just fine. The reports recently indicating that the fbi has been using photos from various states drivers license databases, including utahs, to conduct facial recognition searches. The fbi maintains a number of databases, including some databases with photos in them. Unlike other databases containing photos that it maintains, most of the photos in any states drivers license database are not going to be a people who have been convicted of crimes. So let me ask you first of all, under what authority, what Legal Authority does fbi access and use these drivers license databases for criminal investigation . There are couple of things i would say on this topic. The first is when we use facial recognition, i think a lot of people dont really understand this, we use it for lead value. So there is no one out there getting arrested, much less convicted, based solely on some facial Record Mission match using the kind of database you are describing. Second, i think there is a level of confusion about where these photos reside. We, the fbi, dont have the dmv photos in our database. We have a database of photos, but we have access, we can make requests to states for them to run searches in their dmv photos, only subject to memorandums of understanding that are negotiated with those states to ensure proper compliance with the law. The third thing people dont necessarily understand is that we only provide access to the database, to people who are properly trained on the technology. And the last thing people dont necessarily understand we are working very closely with nist to develop a better algorithm. We are on track to have an algorithm that should have over 99 accuracy by the end of the calendar year, probably. Youre saying you dont take those and download them in your entirety . Correct. Instead the dmv fbi generates photos in our investigations and we have other databases we get photos from. But the dmv photos, think there has been confusion in some of the press coverage. It is not like all dmv photos are available for the fbi to roam around. We have to make requests to those states, i can only subject to the mous we have negotiated with those states. You and then its on a case bycase basis conducting an investigation, individual involved in that investigation and you want to match it against for lead value. In other words that helps us then figure out whether we are on the right track. It is not evidence that allow somebody to get arrested, much less convicted thank you very much thank you mr. Chairman. Thank you director wray, outstanding job. Tell the men and women of the fbi we appreciate their hard work and the hearing is adjourned. Watch our live coverage as the nations governors meeting salt lake city, friday. Starts at 11 15 a. M. Eastern recognizing americas space program. Then, at 11 30, a conversation about safer and smarter roads. After 3 00 p. M. Eastern, improving infrastructure with Maryland Governor larry hogan. The National Governors Association Summer meeting, live, friday on cspan 2 nc spin. Org. Listen with the free cspan radio app. This weekend on American History tv, saturday at 5 00 p. M. Eastern, a discussion about the 1980 refugee act. I think president carters decision to push for that back and to implement it was a hugely important humanitarian decision. He deserves every bit of the credit we have heard here today. That said, we have to be realistic and say that doesnt solve all the problems. Infected creates them that is 6 00 renowned civil war scholar, gary gallagher. Whatever he did in academia should have some dimension that reached out to people who were just interested in the area the way i had been when i was growing up. And it seemed there should be more bridges between academia and the public then there are. One of the key places where that can