His most recent book is hoosiers, a new history of indiana, which is on display outside. For many years he coedited the Indiana University press series midwestern history and culture, which included a book he edited historiescomparative of the midwestern states. Jim says hes very proud, in a modest hoosier way that the midwest Mystery Association bestowed on him the Lifetime Achievement award. I have known jim many years, is many years since i was a , student, his student back at Indiana University and ill testify that he has solid midwestern values, unfailing kindness and decency unflagging , work ethic and solid common sense. Jim represents the best of what it means to be midwestern but he has never romanticized midwestern history. We pride ourselves on being nice, but we dont always live up to that ideal. So today jim will be speaking on a darker side of the midwestern past. He is going to be talking about who is an american, the rise and fall of the ku klux klan in the midwest. [applause] ands thank you, nicole, thank you all for coming out this morning and listening to a subject that may not be as bright as it is outside but a subject that i think is important. I do want to thank grand valley state university, graves whitney, scott st. Louis, the staff, the leaders of our midwestern history association. Ted france, sarah, john, and many others, who make this organization what its become in five short years, and i say that with deep hope and optimism that that trajectory will continue to move upwards in the coming years. I want to, in a very quick and dirty way for which ill apologize only this once, talk to you about the ku klux klan, convince you the klan story is relevant and important, convince you to incorporate the story or part of the story into the history that you do, whatever form of history you do. Its an old, old story, and yet i want to assert it is also a new story, a story that connects to the center of our nations history. This is not a story for the margin, for the side bar. This is a story that goes in the center of our textbook, our minds and hearts as we think , about the question who is an american. A story that paraded proudly down pennsylvania avenue. Its a story that spans a century of time, from 1920 to recent events in charlottesville, and elsewhere. A story of White Supremacists to be sure but much, much more than White Supremacists. We have advantages today in telling this story that we did not have a generation or two ago. There is new scholarship. Lots of good new scholarship on the klan. Yet, after several weeks of doing a cursory investigation of that scholarship in the midwest, i have to also report that there is not nearly enough scholarship for any of the states, the communities, or the region as a whole. There are so many areas of opportunity to plow through the sources and create your own stories about the klan, and i want to convince to you try to do that. Among the advantages that we have, in addition to pretty good foundations of secondary scholarship, are primary sources. The newly digitized sources particularly of newspapers, which those of you who do research in primary sources, you know they are a gem. Generation are owed reparations for having lifted [laughter] james bound newspaper volumes and cranking microfilm. I have thousands of hours invested in that as some of you old timers do also. We should get payback. It feels like im cheating when i go to the digitized newspapers, but boy, are they wonderful for a subject like the klan. Heres the one that drove me. Ive been focusing mostly on indiana. Its based in indianapolis, but the fiery cross, the leading klan newspaper in the north, publishes widely stories from across the midwest and will be useful to anyone and its completely digitized and searchable. Let me make some key generalizations to spark your interest. These are the words of elmer davis, a distinguished reporter from new york who came out to indiana, his native birthplace to study the klan in 1924. This is what he concluded. These were marginal people. They were the great unteachables. Now, i want to say after 40 years in the classroom, i want to hope that no one is unteachable. I had a few students who were close to that maybe. [laughter] james but were all teachable. i dont agree with davis on word, but moret importantly, most of the midwesterners who joined the klan were not marginal. They were mainline, mainstream midwesterners. They were not abnormal. Maybe not even wicked. We now have very good analyses of klan memberships in some locations and there is a project that we desperately need to have more of. The location and the analyses of klan membership lists but we have enough now. To have some idea of who these men with their backs turned to the camera, preparing to be initiated, naturalized into the klan, who they were, what kind of people they were in a socioeconomic way at least. So the question is, who joined . The great midwestern novelist Booth Tarkington said it was the rank and file of good, honest people who joined the ku klux klan and thats often the case. Probably mostly the case. These are people of the heartland. The friendliest people on earth. The nice people. Good methodists, good lawyers. Good merchants. Lions club members. Church women. Proudly joined the klan. This group posing with their masks down because they are very proud members of the womens ku klux klan. Heres one of the greatest challenges in telling this story. It takes a theologian or some other insight to connect good people, and what we would today describe unanimously as evil. Where was the klan popular . Everywhere. Across this country. Certainly in the south but also in the north. In fact, there were probably in the 1920s more klan members in the north than there were in the south. And it was certainly popular in the midwest. In all the midwestern states, in most communities, in those states, most regions in those states, and especially so in ohio, indiana, and illinois. This was the heartland of the klan. Heres their definition of themselves. They were americans. They were 100 americans and thats a wonderful figure to introduce to students and others. What does it mean, 100 american compared to only 99 american . Heres their definition. These are the characteristic, pure white. Ure againhat word p and again in newspaper speeches, propaganda, pure white race. Native born, militantly protestants and aggressively patriotic. These are 100 americans in a protestant country, as this minister in des moines told his audience. Militantly protestant. This is the badge, the logo that is wore on the front of the robe of the klan members. It is the cross. The red, the drop of blood that christ shed for all. Mainline protestants, methodists, baptists, presbyterians, quakers, who had their churches at real crossroads, in big cities, in county courthouse squares where klan members often showed up on a sunday morning, marched to the altar, left a contribution and joined the congregation singing onward christian soldiers. The klan at rallies and parades always displayed the cross. The burning cross, the symbol of their religious belief, the light of their world, the fire of their hearts. And the American Flag, a patriotic flag that flew at all klan events. A religious and patriotic conviction that america was in decline, that there were enemies at the gates, even inside the gates, causing a turning away from that cross and that flag. The klan was brilliant in creating the dichotomy of us and them. Of those people, the others, of defining who the enemy was, and what the enemy was threatening to do. So who is the enemy . The largest, most important enemy for the ku klux klan in the midwest were catholics. I want to say that again because thats commonly not understood, and i dont think there is any doubt in the mind of any scholar, certainly in the writing of any scholar on the klan, in the midwestern region, that that is true. The largest enemy in numbers and power and threat were catholics. Many of you will understand this. Many americans today do not understand, have no sense of anticatholicism. Which was deep in the dna of americans from the beginning, down maybe to the 1960 president ial election. A vicious distrust of a Foreign Church led by a foreign pope, goodness gracious, the pope didnt even speak english, did he . That was engaged in a conspiracy to undermine basic American Values not just protestantism , but there was a lot of focus in klan action on Public Schools and the threats that parochial schools catholics offer to the Public School tradition in america. This anticatholicism is everywhere, even in beautiful new suburbs like oak park outside of chicago, where the women organized a ku klux klan tavern in order to stop the flow of catholics into their lovely middle class neighborhood. Anticatholicism, catholics, the first enemy. And, of course, immigrants, and these are often the same, catholic immigrants, pouring into america, and this of course, is the tail end of the period of the largest, longest, pour of foreign people into the united states. Nativism, i think i need not tell you, is deep in the american soul. They must be turned aside. These invaders from across the atlantic. Jews were the enemy. This was an example that comes from dearborn, michigan, henry ford, brilliant innovator, entrepreneur, business leader, and notorious antisemite, spreading the word in his newspaper the dearborn independent. Africanamericans. Africanamericans were the enemy. Race divided americans in the 1920s. It divided midwesterners in our history from the very beginning down to the present. More than any other line of division in our region. And so africanamericans were certainly the enemy. They were not the largest enemy, because there were seem ways to keep black, midwesterners in their place before and after the klan, that there wasnt a whole lot of work for the klan to do with this particular enemy. So these are the enemies. Catholics first. Immigrants, jews, africanamericans, us, the good americans. The 100 americans who are going to redeem america from these enemies. What are the issues . Weve got to stop this horde of immigrants coming into our country. Weve got to close the door to them. And that happened. In one of the most significant pieces of National Legislation ever passed, the National Origins quota act of 1924, which created a quota system that allowed folks from northern and western europe to enter in large numbers, larger numbers than those from southern and eastern europe. The lesser people, the darker people, the more catholic people, the more jewish people, are pretty much turned away by this 1924 legislation. It was a Great Success for the klan. The klan pushed it aggressively, and while many forces contributed to its passage, the klan was among them, and taking credit, the imperial wizard, the National Leader of the klan, hiram evans, told an indiana audience that now america has built a stone wall around the nation, so tall, so deep, so strong, that the scum and riffraff of the old world cannot get into our gates. These immigrants, these others were the cause of many problems. I think the largest problem they caused was alcohol. In a time of prohibition. This, too, is a long story. In many midwestern communities, the enforcement of prohibition was the number one policy issue. It had pushed hard by protestants for over since the 1840s at least, in many parts of the midwest, especially by Protestant Church women, concerned about what they saw as the decline of family life, the growing corruption that came with the sale and manufacture of alcohol. All the more unsettling because it was quite clear that the authorities were not adequately enforcing the law of the land and the law of the states, that some people like this swell crowd, i think this is madison, wisconsin, were mocking prohibition, not just disobeying the law. Prohibition is the number one issue but there were lots of other signs of moral decline. These flappers, this is something not old but new, in the 1920s. Fueled by booze and new music. It was the music of the jungle, the klan claimed that they were dancing to and listening to, and, of course, back seat sex, the arrival of the automobile across the midwest changed lives in so many ways, including new opportunities for new sins, or old sins in new garb. I love this broadside from the klan in lincoln, nebraska, listing all the problems and challenges you cant read all the details there but you can find this and many of the images i am presenting this morning, particularly on the sights of our wonderful state and local Historical Society. You know them all but we need to shout out our enthusiasm and gratitude to the midwestern state historical societies, from wisconsin to ohio, to nebraska, to iowa, and all the others. Who have, for generations, been gathering the primary sources and now wonderfully digitizing their collection so that anyone, anywhere in the world with computer access, can look at these images and read some of the documents and create your i love this broadside from lincoln from the Nebraska Historical society. The last issue is petting parties, a menace to national morality. Married men, do your joyriding with your own wives. All has this been encouraged hollywood films which, according to the klan, are made by jews and catholics to corrupt the youthful americans. They would play in chicago theaters. A klan newspaper wrote, couples watch sex, filth, vicious and degrading immorality. What did the klan do to advance the cause . Publicity, persuasion, advocacy. In many traditional ways, just had alwaysterners done, they had parades, usually always let by a marching band. They would gather at state fairgrounds. There is a wonderful subject i hope someone takes up. We have some scholarship on state fairs in the midwest. We know how important they are. The klan was there, at the state fair i think in most states. Im not certain but i think it if not most. I love the marching bands. This is one of the most famous. Here they are getting ready to march. I love this photograph because, if you can see, in the front is a saxophone player. I think that is a baritone. I had always assumed that the saxophone was the instrument of the devil in the 1920s but here it is in the klan. Whoever is going to write about klan bands, they need to explain how a saxophone got in this one. Parades on holidays such as the fourth of july. Some people can probably identify some of these buildings in grand rapids. Parades with lots of floats, all sorts of messages. Often about saving the Little Red Schoolhouse from catholics. Floats specifically done by the women of the ku klux klan. So far as i know, no one has yet found a membership list of a womens klan organization. That would be exceedingly valuable. The assumption is that the women were pretty much like the men who joined the klan, honest midwesterners. Rallies such as this one in madison, wisconsin. Band concerts, lectures, parade around the capital, fireworks. A picnic in Central Illinois with all sorts of entertainment. These were festivals, places for people of likeminded sort, to get together, but with this twist of klan speeches and programs. This ad includes at the bottom the names of the sponsors in gerard, illinois, including the local ford dealership. Which tells us, as so many sources do, that this was a picnic attended not by people outside of the mainstream, but a good, honest, godfearing people in this Central Illinois town. The parades had messages. One school, the protestant school. One law, the protestant law. The protestant flag in topi cut, kansas. I dont know if you can see the back window of this automobile. You could spend a lot of time when you have these on your own computer. You blow up the images you look at the details. They are all looking back toward the camera. They didnt remove their masks. This person in the back looking out the window, you see his or her eyes. Its very sweet. This is a common klan activity to donate an American Flag to the schools. To rural schools like this one in ohio, gathered in their robes to present the children symbol of their america. Klanspeople showed up at funerals, weddings, baptisms. There are a lot of pictures of these religious events with klan members in robes in our state society collection. These parades and rallies and picnics are more traditional forms of advancing the cause, but the klan was not a traditional organization. In fact, it was very innovative, progressive, on the cutting edge of technology in the 1920s, on the cutting edge of salesmanship. This is the decade in which salesmanship became a notable area of expertise. And propaganda. The klan leadership was very good at this, including the making of their own films to counter the rot coming out of hollywood. This is one of the most widely shown films by the klan. The klan produced its own music. 100 american songs, photograph records made at various studios around the midwest. Was inthe largest ones richmond, indiana, where they recorded dozens of record. At the same time, the studio in richmond recorded a young trumpet player from new orleans, his first recording, and it was of course Louis Armstrong. The klan and Louis Armstrong might have passed each other while walking in the door. The klan was early adopters of radio. The grand dragon, imperial wizard hiram evans, reaching into other midwestern state as far as indiana. Again, sophisticated. Airplanes. Midwesterners looked up. The klan looked up and overhead at a rally was an airplane, often trailing a cross or flag. These were not rubes in bedsheets. Klan violence. Heres a tough subject. I am going to be very careful with how i talk about it. There was a widespread assumption that the klan was about violence and lynching. First of all, im talking exclusively about the klan in the midwest in the 1920s. Not other places. Not the godforsaken south. I didnt mean that, did i . The midwest in the 1920s, not other times. It is commonly assumed that the klan was lynching africanamericans just like this still from birth of a nation depicts. All across the region in the 1920s and it is simply not true. Again, there is Considerable Research still to be done, but the scholarship i have seen shows surprisingly little violence on the part of the ku klux klan. Im talking about documented evidence, the kind that scholars expect to have. To draw a conclusion, to make a statement. I have had for many years and offer of 50 for anyone who can show me the case of a documented klan lynching in indiana. I still have my 50 and i have raised it to 100 for documented evidence. So far, none. Zero. Not in indiana. Im not saying none anywhere else. Some of you may have documented evidence and i would like to hear about it. Having said that, violence by the klan was slight, especially compared to assumptions today. I want to quickly say that the klan did engage in significant levels of threat and intimidation. After all, part of the reason be is tomask and the ro intimidate people as you march down the streets 1000 strong. Part of the reason of burning a cross on the lawn of a Catholic Church is sending a message. Oaping the screens of a window in a home with the letters kkk sent a message. A powerful message. A significant part of the klans influence and power came from this intimidation, this threat, sense of power that was deliberate and aggressively used by leaders of the ku klux klan. There is some violence. In northern indiana, it is almost certainly the klan that firebombed the residence of a catholic priest. No one was hurt. One of the most egregious instances of violence came in southern illinois, where tensions between italians and miners mixed with the ku klux klan to cause some significant violence. Again, those such instances, so far as i know, are the exception rather than the every day activity of the ku klux klan in the midwest in the 1920s. Rather than physical violence, the klan wisely entered politics. A militia called out in williamson county. I have heard this in other sessions today that there is lots of variation in the midwest. Theres dynamism, fluidity. That is certainly true with the klan. It is certainly true that the klan was politically stronger in indiana than other midwestern states. It was probably weaker in these other states at least some of which past laws prohibiting the wearing of masks in public. That was one popular political response. Some communities, towns, and cities past antimask laws. And there was variation within states. An essential part of the klan story is opposition. It is logical and correct to conclude that the largest opposition to the ku klux klan in the midwest in the 1920s came from catholics, their largest enemies. Larger in numbers and more effectively organized with resources to stand up to the klan. This is the major catholic organized response to the klan, the formation of the american unity league, the aul, produced a Speakers Bureau and the newsletter called, fittingly, tolerance. Tolerance is an interesting read. It might not be true. An interesting read condemning the klan, calling them out, mocking them, and very interestingly, acquiring, stealing membership lists from klan headquarters and publishing them in the pages of tolerance. They did that in indianapolis, chicago, and other locations. Of course Jewish Americans stood up to the klan when and where they could. In some larger cities, Jewish Community organizations did attempt to respond and some rabbis were very outspoken and opposing klan. Africanamericans, of course, to me this is a fascinating part of the klans story. In many places, in 1924, africanamericans switched from the long tradition since Abraham Lincoln of voting republican voting democrat for the first time, a foreshadowing of what would become the new Deal Coalition in the 1930s. As important or more important, africanamericans formed branches of the naacp. Some had been formed in the teens. But in the twenties, naacp branches took off around the midwest due in part to what africanamericans saw in the threat from the ku klux klan. This is a very interesting part of the story and the benefit are the sources. Theome of you might know, papers of the naacp are in the last very of congress washington, d. C. They are the largest collection in the Manuscript Division and they are wonderful papers. I have been through them for indiana and other places. If you have interest, i suggest you get to the papers. An really inside Africanamerican Community in a particular place. To see Division Within the Africanamerican Community. In this instance, they struggle, they debate how to respond. Should we put our heads down and go along because it is dangerous to respond . Or should we stand up and speak out . In this case, the indianapolis branch, which became very active in the 1920s, they decided to stand up and stand out. They organized some rallies along with jewish and catholic fellow citizens. There is general opposition within some Protestant Churches. The detroit Methodist Church sed a measures against the klan. Many protestant ministers not just joined the klan, it appears they got free membership, but then became speakers, really firemen for the klans locomotive. Opposition within the republican party, some elected officials spoke up to the klan and opposed the klan. The indiana bar association, surprisingly to me, passed a resolution of condemnation. There was some opposition to the press. But not many. Most newspapers, i think certainly in indiana, went along, remained silent, or endorsed the klan. Only a handful actively opposed it. The klan did decline and did go away, rather quickly in retrospect, although not for those living at the time. The death of this woman in 1925, the murder of this woman by this man in 1925 is the trigger. Grand dragon of indiana, the most prominent clan leader in the west. Was trying to build a wide klan Network Beyond his state he wound up in prison for the murder of madge oberholtzer. Indiana, not just in but across the region smelled like many day old fish. People ran from it aggressively. This is a tangled story that i dont think has been told very well, the decline of the klan. I think some of it comes from the success of the klan in solving the problem of immigration like in 1924. They are still here and that problem is going to take care of itself. We dont need to worry about that. Then there was disappointment with the klan, because the klan was never going to live up to its promises. It promised to eradicate alcohol from the land. It promised to enforce rigidly the prohibition law and it failed to do that. Anyone could see that alcohol was widely and readily obtained across the region. They could see that there were bootleggers, as well as home brew. Alcohol was flourishing and with this came corruption of all sorts. Kick backs, bribery of city and police officials. A web of corruption. Some klan members to say we have had enough of this. By the end of the 1920s, the klan had been kicked out of the midwest. I think most midwesterners decided, were just going to forget about it, it is over. It is done. In fact, by the 1930s, it was embarrassing to think about, that i belonged to the klan, my father, my grandmother belonged to the klan. We dont want to talk about that, we will sweep it under the rug, it will go away. This is a standard way for human beings in americans especially to think about our history, our troubled past. To pretend it did not happen. Not to erase it so much as forget it. Story offascinating the way in which we dealt with the memory of the klan since the 1920s, the way that we have or have not acknowledged it in textbooks, curriculum, museums. It was very controversial. Among the first documented displays of a klan robe was in the fort wayne museum. There was a wonderful little article about that display of a klan robe. How dangerous it was. How much effort it took to put that robe in the museum. So, is the klan dead . Have we seen the end . This is one of my favorite klan images. Not really dead. The biggest revival came following the Civil Rights Movement of the early 1960s. Those demonstrations, actions, responses revived the klan across the region in the late 1960s. But it is a very different klan. This is also what causes this understanding of the midwest in the 1920s. The klan that reappears in the 1960s and 1970s and beyond is a very different klan. Are rubes and unteachables. This is one of my favorite klan photographs. You may not be able to read the sign guy on the left is carrying. It is its nice to be white, he writes on the side. He spelled the word its. But, it is nice to be white. I honestly think sometimes these are people not to be despised or hated but almost embraced and loved to say, i feel sorry for you, you are so out of touch in the world in which you live. It is a sad klan that returned in the 1960s and 1970s. Ive just about finished a book on the klan, mostly about indiana. The last two chapters are about these fellas. My wife read it and said, why do you have to go on and on about them . So i cut some of it. But they are intriguing. They still pull in the television cameras. If we want to be on the news grand rapids, all we have to do is go out and burn a cross. They will have a helicopter overhead and we will get interviewed. If we put on robes and burn a cross. There is something that pulls us into these people. They are very small in numbers, the klan that appears in the midwest in the late 1960s. Very small in numbers. Basically powerless. They show up at events and always there are more Police Officers than klan members. More officers not in uniform probably than klan members. They are there to protect the klan. So they are still here. They are different in that their focus has been more on white supremacy, the pure white race, and attacks on africanamericans. Vicious, racist stuff that comes out of their mouths. Not much out of the writing because they dont write much. Bigoted racism of the worst sort. They have added some new conspiracies. In the 1990s, they added the lgbt enemy to the list of what was wrong with america. They have spawned descendents and variations down to charlottesville. This fella in the foreground here is wearing the same insignia that folks in springfield wore in 1924. Among the organizers of the charlottesville rally of 2017 was Matt Heimbach of southern indiana. I have followed him. He is a media magnet. He has dozens of interviews from all over the world. Heimbach is no rube. He is a college graduate. Thank you god, not in indiana. In maryland. He was a history major. Rube. No he requires, others require that we have answers to the question of who is an american . Who are these people marching down pennsylvania avenue . Who are their descendents today . What is our responsibility as citizens and historians . As a historian we have a responsibility to tell the story, to figure out ways to tell it accurately with documented evidence, to figure out ways to tell it effectively. Not just with other historian. To the people. This is where the midwest began. This is where our Historical Society and universities began. The peoples university. We have obligations to the people to tell this story in our scholarship, and public presentations, like the one in of all places dearborn, michigan, where there is a wonderful presentation in the henry ford, that great museum. A third grader, one of the four greatest kids in the world, did understand last summer when we looked at this exhibit and maybe couldnt put it into words but at some sense of hoping that the moral arc of justice the moral arc bends toward justice. Thank you very much. [applause] we do have some time for questions. I would ask if you could come up to the microphone to ask your question also to make your comment. I am happy to have negative comments, challenging comments, not hostile, but challenging. Thank you for your powerful talk. Im wondering if you can Say Something about world war i veterans . The american legion, was it appealing to veterans . The question is about veteran general veterans in general, and world war i is a precursor to many of the issues i have talked about. Veterans specifically, and it is impossible to generalize, but his question was about the american legion. Headquarters in indianapolis but the legion is all over the west. Very popular for a lot of reasons. Patriotic reasons. They fought for their country. They wanted to honor their country. Also, in some legion places of gathering, they also wanted to have a beer or a glass of gin. Some of those legion costs provided that legion posts provided that. The question of whether the legion members were also klan members is not something i can say. The state of indiana refused to pass a resolution condemning the klan. As did all the major church denominations. I know that some members of the legion were members of the klan. I know the dean of Indian EasterIndiana University law school became state and National Commander of the american legion, lets ask was asked to condemn the klan. He would not say anything publicly. He got elected governor of indiana in 1932 as a consequence of staying silent, i suspect. So, i appreciated a lot of what you said today but i have some questions about white supremacy. In particular, im always struck by this framing of the klan or other hate groups as nice white people who do really reprehensible things because i think that sort of lends us to the argument you started to get to at the end that these human beings should be pitied. I worried that, that pity, seeing that as laughable, it makes it easier for us to turn away from real violence whether it is physical or psychic or verbal that comes from this sort of rhetoric. I dont know, but i wonder if you had any thoughts about the nice white people doing bad things framing . That is a great comment and in fact im going to get a transcript of that and put it in my manuscript. I dont really have a good answer. Ive tried to be careful. Other people have read this manuscript and have tried to help me on this issue. Im just not content as some people are just a, the ku klux klan, let them rot in hell. I think that is wrong. I think that is a disservice. I want to state again that my reaction thoughts about the klan of the 1920s is very different than recent events. We all know that it is unfair to judge an earlier generation by our standards. Im trying very hard to put the klan in the 1920s in the context of their time and place. Very few people in the 1920s had any concept of what we would call multiculturalism or diversity. It comes up a little bit in the aul, american unity leak. In some of their speeches, they use words that we might call multiculturalism today. But that was very unusual, i think, in the 1920s. This is a real conundrum. I think i tried to tell the story in a way that the reader to come to her or his conclusions. Thank you so much for a powerful and important talk. Im speaking here at somebody who is a 19thcentury historian, so im trying to jump over that century divide. Given the fact this is a very new discovery. But particularly those three borderlands states, ohio, kentucky, and indiana, were filled with thriving africanamerican farming communities in the 19th century who seemed to be able to hold onto their land and wealth up until the rise of the klan. Just being in these communities, whether western ohio to western wisconsin, the way that the klan was expending massive amounts of energy to terrorize and even physically destroy aspects of those communities. I just wonder how you think our growing awareness of this different way of thinking about race in the world, and the rise of the plan the rise of the klan, might shape future scholarship . That is a long and complicated question. Let me take a few pieces of it. First of all, on the africanamerican rural communities, i am allowed to outside indiana but i always get a little bit shaky, and in this audience especially because some of you know more about this than i do for your parts of the midwest. In indiana, the weaver settlement beach, places ive studied, began to decline before the 1920s for the same reason small towns across the midwest were struggling, because young people voted with their feet and went to cities. Agriculture lessened. They didnt want to live in small towns with all the stuff of big cities. Big africanamerican communities in the midwest i think a very important that they are understudied and need to be incorporated into our general understanding of the midwest and america. I think these communities are starting to wither before the 1920s. I know they were being threatened, intimidated, the object of white antipathy for the beginning into the 20th century. But i know of no significant klan violence against any of these africanamerican communities in indiana in the 1920s. Talk about threats from the klan to come out and they said, weve got guns, weve got rifles, they could have shot between the eyes of a hooedded klansman, too. The klan knew that. They stayed away. Certainly, there was intimidation and threats. That is very important. There was segregation, discrimination. The other side of the story, these communities really did build prosperous agriculture economies. They created schools, churches. In the context of time and place, they thrived. Descendents who come back to these places celebrate a history that is sort of real, that is one of great pride in straight. I think there are positive things to say. My name is kevin associate professor of history at antioch. This last saturday, the klan marched in date and prima in dayoton and pretty much shut down that city. There ended up being 9 lkan klanspeople. I think the reason they were able to do that is kind of what you are talking about here. The klan has a history of terror, as a terrorist Organization People know what happened in charlottesville so anytime they come to a place, people have to be prepared for what is happening. I think that, what you presented, it seemed as though you were underestimating the power of terror. My family has roots in the south. My parents moved to toledo in 1953. The first time they went out to dinner, there was dirt in the salad they were delivered. The klan was not there. But whether the klan was there or not, there is this smileyfaced racism in the midwest, underneath all this goodness. Christianity, too. That christianity is not the christianity of the Good Samaritan. Those nine people shut that city down. That city spent thousands of dollars in preparation. That is terror and that has to be named. [applause] thank you. I agree 100 with all youve said. I should probably stop there. I agree with all that you said. The question for me is how we go about responding to this. What are the tools in our armor that we can best deploy to stand up to this . Im glad you cited christianity. My great hero, kurt vonnegeut had this statement, i hear all these quotations but i never hear the battitudes today, where is the Good Samaritan . Yes, these people, you can call them people if you want call them evil if you want, i wont dispute that. You can call them terrorists. I wont dispute that. But we have a set of constitutional ideals that allow these people to demonstrate in dayton. This is not just about race in africanamericans, this is about all americans. All these issues are not about white or black. Im sorry, im starting to preach now. We have to allow them to parade, i think. Bringing them out into the light would expose them and they wither away. The numbers you cited, nine klanspeople and 1500 demonstrators. I want to echo my appreciation for the previous questions. Some of those questions were on my mind as well. Kind of taking us back into the historical realm of the 1920s. Keep in mind i an 1800s historian. Im interested in exploring further of not just looking at lethal violence, but thinking about violence much more broadly. As terror, psychological, and thinking about trauma. I wonder what sources you see that get at klan survivors trauma from intimidation, from living with constant fear and recognizing this is very difficult. We might be entering the realm of oral history. We dont have the documentation to work with that we might wish. The main hat i wear is a scholar of africanAmerican History that present these events did register is very real even if they were not to the primary target even if in an historical sense, we see catholics as the main enemy of the klan. To people of color, he didnt feel that way. How is there trauma going to be acknowledged, documented, and researched, and the historical record . Another great question and comment for love any, many questions comment full of many, many questions. It is impossible to know what that was like for victims. There are many i know it im sure there are many that i dont know. There was a minister who wrote a bed more brody memoir of what it was like. What we dont have much of our oral history interviews. It is too late now. The generation before us lost the chance. Before the 1980s or 1990s, scholars didnt much want to study this. The oral history project in indiana, maybe somebody in iowa or kansas city had a beautiful project on the klan, but not in indiana. That would enable us to talk about what it was like to be on the receiving end of klan intimidation. Intimidation is the threat and what it means to that individuals family, that is so important and so difficult to get at. Jim, im probably asking you to do some here that as a historian you might not want to do, to reflect on two eras. Harry truman said we tend to go through these periods where social factors in the case of the 1920s, immigration, demographic and social change, in which we main street the more in whihch we mainstream the most toxic parts. We are in a period now where we have seen a mainstreaming of some of that less than desirable behavior. Do you see analogues between where america was in the 1920s politically and socially and where we are today . Certainly, charlottesville. Yes, to do. It scares me. Yes and no, there are no true false answers. Somebody said history doesnt repeat itself but it sure does rhyme. I think there are enough ryhmes here to make me a little anxious. There are so many people standing up, more than there were in the 1920s. There are more profiles encourage, more genuine attention to american ideals, i think. My perception is at the present time there is a growing support for white supremacy. If my perception has any validity, is that a legacy of the klan . The klan didnt create pure white attitudes or prejudices. They picked up on them. They picked up on scientific racism. They packaged it and presented it in a very marketable way to ordinary people in the midwest. That continues. Today, the real dangers come from not just a we see coded language, activities that are based on some or all with the assumption of a white superiority, white race. Depends what you are talking about and where you are talking. Again, variations very important and sometimes best. My opinion, deal of hope not just in my grandson james but in Many Americans dont think about issues like race. Times have changed. That is why im going to continue to help that the moral arc has been bending, far too slowly in my opinion, but bending toward justice. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] the 50theekend we work anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. We will host interviews and take viewer calls on saturday, july 20 beginning at 7 00 a. M. Eastern here on American History tv on cspan3 and simulcast on cspan washington journal. Nasay on real america, a prelaunch interview with the three apollo 11 astronauts. Here is a preview. Is astronaut neil armstrong, command pilot for the apollo 11 moon landing mission. What is the purpose of the apollo 11 mission . Apollo 11 is mans first attempt to demonstrate the ability to go to the moon, to land there, and to return to earth. Had you view your role as command module pilot . Apollo was designed to be a threeman job. The third which i perform is i think as important no more so nor less so than the other two positions. I think i would be a fall full if i said i had the best seat of the three. Honesty iincomplete am very happy to have the seat i have and to do the job i am going to do. You describe what will be happening just before the lunar module touches down on the moon. We will continue burning the engine until an out to two of only about five feet at which ame the probes will ignite light on our panel. We see it a limited, we cut the engine and fall the last several feet to touchdown. Astronaut buzz aldrin had this to say. Following the preparation time, we will go through the planned to man excursion on the surface with neil exiting the spacecraft first. Thats one small step for man one giant leap for mankind. It you can watch the entire interview with the three apollo 11 astronauts sunday at or 00 p. M. Eastern here on American History tv. In 1979 a Small Network with other meat unusual name rolled out a big idea to let viewers make up their own minds. Cspan opened the door to washington policy for all to see. When you content from congress and beyond. Today the big idea is more relevant than ever. On television and online, cspan is your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind. Army heritage days is an annual event held in may at the u. S. Army heritage and Education Center in carlisle, pennsylvania. Hundreds of living history hobbyists are selected by the centers to conduct demonstrations and talk to the public about military subjects, ranging from the American Revolution to the war on terror. The theme this year was the 75th anniversary of dday. Next, on american artifacts, we visit an exhibit about world war ii soviet soldiers