Transcripts For CSPAN3 Interpreting Slavery At Colonial Williamsburg 20240714

Programming with designs by our panelists tonight, so that we could tell the whole story of our 18th century community. Blending social history with public history to tell the africanamerican story has never been done before. And quite literally, they were making history. This is the first of three panelist discussions that we are going to have this year. And i would welcome you to come back on july 5, when we will look at current programming that focuses on African American stories, and also on october 18, where we will be focusing on the future, and our panelists at that discussion will be helping us to think about, how do we continue to tell the story . Lawrence mitchell said it really is all of our story. Now i know our panelists well. And they have plenty to share with us. So, please let me begin the evening by introducing our moderator. He began his career here at Colonial Williamsburg as a junior interpreter, and became an active interpreter and manager of the interpreters. And also a program developer. And he is now president of his own company. So, if you would join me in welcoming Richard Josie. [ applause ] peace and blessings. It is kind of interesting to come home. After being in the cold minnesota for a while. To see the work that is being done here, to see familiar faces. To see my mentors, and have the opportunity to speak before you all, and have a shared experience with you all, to learn and revisit, and in some cases, be reminded of, its not just 40 years. I will just say a long time. A lot of hard work. A lot of sharing, caring. Supporting one another. And, the stories were going to be informal. We are going to be loose. So, let me start by introducing the folks who are on my panel. I begin by introducing dr. Rex alice. Rex ellis. [ applause ] christy coleman. [ applause ] dallas richards. [ applause ] so, i think, you know, we had previous conversations. Move to talk about four years in which took us back to 1979. However you heard something here that mitchell stated earlier, that there had been some work happening as early as the 40s. Before we start getting into 79 and on, i want to start in the timeframe before that. At that point in time, was not in the 40s. Not in the 40s. Announcer 2 i think it is 73. And it was kind of interesting. Anyway, about the 70s. 72. And, i dont think, there has only been one africanamerican and up to that point. His name was jimmy carters. Another man named jimmy curtis. He was a drummer. And later on, there were more africanamericans in the pipe and drum. But, you know, i think what he was speaking of is franklin timeframe when, i think when was that . In the 50s . That was really an effort to look at africanamericans history and how it can be interpreted at Colonial Williamsburg at the time, that some stories out of come out about people who are actually in the building. In my church. The pains. James pain and pain used to live on top of the woodhouse. Thats where they stayed. And they lived there and they put costumes on or colonial garb and went downstairs and interpreted the kitchen. And, that was something that i dont know how that came about. I dont know what the purpose of that was. I dont know what they interpreted, but they said they interpreted africanAmerican History down there. You know, in the kitchen. And i know that there were people in the kitchens, African Americans in the kitchen. But to be real honest, were talking about employees who happen to be black. And costume in those areas. And if you were to walk in and ask them about africanAmerican History, you may not get an answer. Because that is not what they were therefore. , they would tell you, i am cooking. Are i am the care i am the silversmith. They were more craftspeople than interpreting African American history. So, i think that there was a need for an africanamerican representative throughout the foundation, all the way up until 79. But the focus was not on africanAmerican History. And, to be honest, before, even during 79, when we were at the very beginning, those African Americans that were in costumes still didnt want to talk about it. Because, they were craftsmen. They didnt want to talk about their craft. And to be very honest, you really wouldnt want them to. Because, they were not versed in a. Because we found him what we were doing, is that if you can ask some basic questions, then your credibility is shot real quick. Suck unless you were trained to interpret africanAmerican History, it really wasnt fair to think that they could take on that burden. I dont mean burden as in the negative, but it can be burdensome. So, i think what the president was really speaking of was that there was always a presence. There was always a knowledge that half the population of williamsburg in the 18th century was black. But, how to interpret it, really had delved into it. And, to be honest, personally, i think that it was the right time, when we started doing it. And, at time people were thinking about social issues. People thinking about womens history, and the people kind of loosening up. But as, just like today, folks to loose talking about slavery. But that has to do with how we have learned it. And how we have been missed taught about the institution itself. For some reason, we think that that is a color issue, when its the institution we dont understand. And we dont understand color because what we were trying to do is teach the institution, people, and make it very personable. I know i kind of went a little far. But, those early years were very interesting years. Because, there was an effort to [ inaudible ] they represented the other half of the population during the 18th century. They employed them as blacksmiths and as carriage drivers, and as and they dressed them in that way. So, even though they were craftspeople or they were tradespeople, its interesting that colony was, they were hired because they represented the diversity of williamsburg, especially africanamerican. But in their hiring, the memory of them focused their attention on what they did. Not who they were doing it for. But, the foundation understood very well that it had to have a representation of African Americans. Of who happen to be African American. Was a carriage driver, or a book writer. Who happens to be an African American. But they understood that they were hiring them to legitimize the concept of historical accuracy when we came on board, we did not, we knew that we were not being hired to be, per se, a tradesman. We were hired to interpret africanAmerican History and one of the most unorthodox ways of interpreting it. And that is through theater. So theater rather than theater in the legitimate sense. Of program came, it started began to focus on, yes, African American history is important because we want to interpreted. In the 1940s, the pain family, they lived in the woodhouse. Above the kitchen. During the day, when mr. Payne was going about doing his duties, as a custodian of the property, he would be in costume. He was doing what you would do in terms of cleaning the whip house and the other chores that he had. But he did it in costume. So, there was a full awareness that he was being used as a person to represent something. But there wasnt the attendant responsibility of being, of having information about africanAmerican History, she might be able to interpret that as a part of the story. Speak that would come a few years later. 1966. 18thcentury williamsburg where it became a seminal work. And really the bible for interpretation. It was a compilation of a lot of work from the archaeologist and the historians that were on staff. And others that they dug to the record. Which was rich the presence of africanamericans. And yet, there was still large gaps. Now, you know, the other thing, too. That i think we cannot ignore, with those early African American Staff Members who were working in the historic area is that whether they wanted to interpreted or not, visitors were constantly addressing them that way. And that was part of the irritation, when this Program Actually came along, because they had been working so hard to be seen as professionals, have been working so hard to have been seen as people who were during an 18 century crafter skill. They did not want their role diminished by the visitor, frankly, who would say, completely inappropriate things to them. And frankly, that still happens. So, you know, that is sort of the additional layer, i think, to why there was this mix of resistance from black people in some cases, and in fact, from other interpreters throughout the historic area when this came on. Think there is another important social, i think is another important social event that also heralds why it became important in 79. That was a 1977. For the first time, americans saw the story of a black family when roots came out. So, i think this confluence is, as dylan said, it was the right time. And there was no better person to do it. To get this going. You know, there was i just thought of three things. One, is was rexall speaking of Historic Building in costume. What 79 did was put people on the streets, and now, the Costume Design Center had to come up with what are they wearing . So, now, now, your shirt is different. You are wearing a linen shirt. You got on. Now, so, your shoes have to be different. Everything kind of change. So, now, you have people authentically dressed as black folks on the street. Not just as a cook. And that means that the black a because now, the black cook is not dressed the way a black cook would have dressed. Seems like the way any cook would address. So now, when people see black folks on the street, with a hat on, they go into a kitchen and start asking an appropriate question, who were you. That is the biggest question that i can remember. That craftspeople did not like. Because they see a character per trail on the street, and then they quick, theres a black person. Who are you . We just saw who are you . And then, there is an actual printer. What was your name. But there is that person who was actually the master printer of the shop. Who wants to say i am the master printer of the shop . Thats not what the visitor is asking. The visitor is asking, who are you . Is not that the visit did not ask a question. The visitor was also very interested in that person, that individual. And that, that is where we got a great deal of what i say i are. Great deal of anger. From tradesman who really wanted to focus their attention on the trade. Acknowledge it. On the, you know, i am a silversmith there, but my binder. Me carpenter. Whatever it was, they wanted to focus their attention on that. We came to town saying, we want you to ask us about African Americans. Were going to create these characters that focus their attention on letting you know what life was like for African Americans during the 18th century. And these characters fully researched. Meticulously recharged in many ways by the Research Department who sort of put us on the map. But we also put the Research Department on the map. One of the reasons i say we put them on the map is because began to ask questions about slaves objects and about material culture. And, John Hatfield and began to ask questions about African Americans in the 18th century. That open the door. But then there were historians who had to, in some way, begin to fill in the blanks of what was going on within the African American community. Archaeologists who werent seeing, they are seeing remains that were africanamericans that there is nothing saying that documented cover it up. They were doing that anymore. They were beginning to ask questions and beginning to find new questions to ask. About the 18th century that gave us father for new information. But also, give them in many instances, they will look at history that was part of what kristi said. The social, Historical Perspective that was coming out around the 80s and 90s. And all of that seemed to work together. In a way that allowed us to do and in, and interpretive programs that we were very proud of. There may be a question of what is 79 . What happened in 1979 is that they wanted to have did characters on the street. But at the same time, in 1979, a man named Peter Pickford came from the africanAmerican History museum in dc and under the direction of john mont who asked, they wanted to do black Music Program. And that was the very First Program that was ever done in the historic area was a black Music Program. So, while, and dictate my speech teacher at hampton. And, for student ever. [ laughter ] he came to me. He came to me on the first day of class and said, i did you know how to talk. Can i just not do this class at all . Who in the world is this arrogant man coming in telling me he doesnt have to do 103 . That to becoming one of my best friends. God only knows. [ laughter ] i played the site for extra credit. Thats right. Had black folks and theyre going to play . What happened was rex Darren Taylor were hired to walk the streets. Of this young man named, this young man who has a shot is father, i give him a call to let them know that is one of the first characters on the street. Because that 40 years in is still here. That says something, yall. He took a long hiatus. But he wasnt the first. But it was nice to see him with the shop. And that was big. He did not know that. But then, he wasnt here 40 years ago. But, so, this was the first time people on the street, and middle of the Evening Program a black music. If you ever see this, this photograph, just to its Lamont Carter who was passed. Lamont carter was he worked in the bookshop. Had very little rhythm. Very little rhythm. But lamont was one of the few africanamericans who was interested in helping us interpret africanAmerican History. Yes. God rest his soul. And rex, monty cullen, eddie allen, and there is one more. I wrote them down. Deborah was later. Preston jones. He still around. O, preston. Preston was one of the first. Preston and lamont would fight for the bell because of, you know, but you know, that helped i thought ruth was with was later. Rentals later. I got her down. But, yeah, she was yeah. And, the that in the beginning, even shows that, you know, people were willing. I mean, we had two craftsmen that were willing to help. So, as people didnt want us just that we had not gone to the chain of the training of interpreters of how to, because they had never really had that kind of focus. But now, they were getting the focus. They were meeting these people on the streets. And also during this time, is when children dig it up a little later. Okay. I will save that. Rest, when they came to talk to you, who came to talk to you about this . I think thats an interesting story. Harvey cradle. Willing. I believe daniel toole was in the group. They came to Hampton University and said they wanted some of our actors. I was teaching in the Speech Communications and theater Art Department at the point. And they can to hampton and said, look, i actually was teaching an acting class at that point, and they, the chairman of the department, called me into his office. And said, there is somebody in this office i would like you to listen to. And harvey said, in essence, he wanted some of our actors to addition to play the parts of slaves at Colonial Williamsburg. Now, you dont go to a predominantly black college, and make a Statement Like that, unless you are three years short of a sixpack, or your cause is just. So, we sat him down. And he said, we want to begin to talk about the other half of the population in williamsburg in the 18th century. Rex was a year old when we left Surrey County and i came to williamsburg to live. From the time i was a year old, until i graduated from high school, i never knew that half the population in williamsburg was black. I knew williamsburg as a place where my nextdoor neighbor was the head chef at the at the old motor house. I knew that one of my other nextdoor neighbors was the housekeeper at the lodge. I had no idea that there was this kind of history. So, fool that i was, i said, if youre going to do something positive for black folk in williamsburg, i will audition for you. So, it was me, it was Darren Taylor. And monty combs. Who were the first three africanamerican interpreters. And, not eddie not. And then, and then, harvey cradle, who had begun the program, creating a character, what was the name of this character . A neerdowell character that was always in the jail and the pillory. And, he always, the crowd loved him. Because it was a way of teaching history that used theater as a way of introducing and connecting audiences to characters that were 18th century characters. Well, his character was a neer dowell. A poor neerdowell who was always in jail. Responsible. But the crowd loved him. So, the next year, he did this in 80 and 73. In no. In 78. And and 79, they thought enough of what he was doing, and the sort of new burgeoning Living History Program, that they asked him to hire six other people to help him create this Living History Program in williamsburg. So, here is this guy saying, at Hampton University, we walked he didnt say im trying to begin a new program. He didnt say folks will be upset about this. He didnt say anything. He just say we would like you to come in Colonial Williamsburg and begin this program. And, that first year, that first year was pretty rough. Because, car harvey had this idea of us being in character and never breaking character. But, staying in character throughout. After about one week, i said, this is not going to work. So i called darren. I called monty. We went to harveys office and i said harvey, this is not going to work. People are getting confused. They dont know who we are, what we are doing. They think we are from ethan state. And have come here to do something that is totally irresponsible. We have to break character. He said no, no, no. We can do that. That is not my vision. I said, you dont understand, harvey. This is a parttime job for me. I have to go back to Hampton University when this is over. We even tried this way are, or, i dont need this job that bad. So, we then created a program where we broke character. I would introduce the character. I would tell, ladies and gentlemen, who i was. I would do the character, and then i would turn around again and break character. Now, i could talk about 18th century history. I could talk about what we had learned in order to get the programs together. So, it was that burgeoning Living History Program that had the extra burden of interpreting a controversial history. So, we were using a controversy presentation technique to interpret one of the most controversial subjects that we could interpret in an 18th century environment. And that was slavery. So, i guess. Because, i remember my grandmother telling me, shes. I remember her telling me about how black folks in roe felt about williamsburg. She talked to me about how, you know, long before we and others here, black folks was here. And, how they, the property was brought up and they were gone in different places and the like. And, even when. At st. Johns. Even when i met you at st. Johns, even at that point in time, Colonial Williamsburg in our neighborhood was a place that white folks go. So, when i think about you all and i see all of the, i think back to that early time, i dont think i can explain how to, how the community may have thought i read an article just yesterday about, about from you, rex, when we were talking about father about williamsburg. My father said, my father said, we passed by, if you live in williamsburg, you have, you live in east, north, south, or west. And the historic area is right in the middle. I have to pass the historic area to go anywhere. On one end of the town to the other. You have to pass going to williamsburg. We passed by one day and i said daddy, because i looked at the capital and a whole bunch of people at the capital. And i remember saying, daddy, why is it that we never go to see that place . He said because that place points to slavery. And that is not something we need to know about. Let daddy says it, thats the end of it. I didnt think about it anymore until that day harvey came to Hampton University. So, so, i came on the scene the summer of 1982. And, i also grew up in williamsburg. And, you know, a lot of those people that were talking about, they grew up, you know, these people who work they went to our church or the lid that i neighborhood and whatever. So, we knew these people. And, for me, my dad was sous chef at the williamsburg in. And my uncle was the manager of then the cascade. Other motor house in the cascade. So, i can do williamsburg. Like them, i came to williamsburg ally. Walking down the street, me and my friends. We would ride our bikes up and down the historic area. We would joke on the, you know, on the tourist. And all that kind of thing. And so, the summer prior to my senior my when i was a junior in high school, i was riding my bike and i saw my drama teacher from high school. And i am proud to say, we had like the state champion Drama Department at my high school. And, one of my classmates was right there. So, i am writing my bike and i saw claudia and carew on the street portraying and wager. And i stopped and i was just mesmerized by what she was doing. And i thought, i want to do that. You know . So, back in class, i said, hey. How can i kind of get in on that . And, she said, will first of all, you are too young. And, the people that they are working with our college age or older. Whatever. And, i have always been a little brass year than your average bear. And so, i got my i got i dont remember who on behalf, my parents called somebody at cw to find that when the audition was going to be. For the africanamerican programs and Living History Programs. And so, i went to the audition at 17. They did not know i was 17. You filled out an application . I most certainly did not. We had to bring our resume. We had to bring out the other resume. But i had my headshot and i had on my show stuff listed. I was good to go. And so, i did it. And then they hired me. It was really great. So my friends were working at mcdonalds that summer for minimum wage, you know, i thought it was great because i was making a whole lot more money, comparatively. It wasnt really a lot when you think back on it. But it was two dollars more than everybody else in high school, which was really great. And i was acting. I was getting able to perform. But it was and they were patient. They got me the historian to work with, and the crew that was before us. Really mentored dictate. To me it was just an act job. I didnt think about or what i would be doing. And, is a kid. Always africanAmerican History. Because my parents were adamant about it when i was growing up. Whenever had that special in history class or what ever it was, they would tell me about this person. Why dont you write about this person. Share with your classmates. So thats what i did. I didnt have this anxiety about talking about is people. However, it didnt take long for me to learn in the past. I was betraying at my age, miss becca. She belonged to this family of apothecaries. Misplayed is going to be dictate. And the storyline in the storyline is storyline is she going to get sold off to pay debts . Is she going to live with dan blair . Is she going to dictate it was theater and i melted. And then, i went out and found the bell out in front of the apothecary meaning for the next cycle to go through. A man walked up to me and i play in a. And the ticket did. And i was so taken aback by it, but also i was brassy, right . So how does it feel to play one . I jumped up, and straight. To the break room and i said, this is what just happened. And his word stuck with me in the 32 years. First museum of art. Change my life. For that ill always be grateful. He said to me, i understand we have all been there. Whether or not you are Strong Enough to tell your ancestors story when nobody wants you. Or, if you arent ready to do that, its okay. You can go. He said you think about that. And i sat in that room during their breaks. I said it. And i was like, im doing this. And, i came back every summer all the plans went out the window. During the summer, would decide how they were going to Colonial Williamsburg this year. Go to a department store. They would put Colonial Williamsburg dancers they would include africanamericans in a. And every floor, they had someone on that floor. They have a particular floor in the christmas area of big bs where they wanted the african interpreters to be. I remember that night, they had a large parade that was inside the store. And all of the Colonial Williamsburg characters, would whoever they were. They would lock down this long ill. There were black chairs on either side of the aisle. And, stockholders and other vips were seated in those chairs. And, we were to all parade down , and then when we got to the middle of the store, one group started from one end, one good start from the other end. They were, the local 90s band was there. The local ballet. Colonial williamsburg, they were the stars. So, we came in , and we came to the middle of the room. And then, we would go up the escalators all the way up to the top floor, which is were Colonial Williamsburg was. And that they would fill in the floors with the other cleveland supernumerarys. So, there i am with bill white over in the cosmetics area. And, i dont know if you remember where mary wiseman. Merry wiseman was a part of that group as well. Okay i am over there with bill white, and mary wiseman. Bill white was the drum major. And, he had a banner here. And a big baton and had his tricolored had on and push and push and boom. He was looking good. Right . Right beside him is mary wiseman. And costume sharper than me. This beautiful gown that was flowing all around. She had put her hair up in a mega oh. She was just looking important. And then i looked over in the mirror at myself back and i looked pretty good for a slave. And i said to bill, bill, do you mind if i sit this one out . And he said, okay. But, could you come by my mother hotel room after and tell me why . I said, all right. So, i went to his room after they had done all of this parading. And i said, when you put on 18th century clothing, it makes you feel important. It inspires you. It makes you think that the 18th century was the of what it means to be an american. When i wear the clothes i wear, i feel like a slave. And if i am responsible and want to get into my character, the more i get into my character, the worse i feel. As an individual. So, what she is talking about, is what happens to every africanamerican interpreter who puts on a costume every day , and goes out into that street to interpret something that few people interpret, and to find your piece in that. It is what she did. Many failed to do it. But she found her piece in that. But it was that day that bill white understood what it meant, being an africanamerican, putting on a slave costume, and that what that did to your psyche. I want to say this. What we did, we owned that. We owned that. And what we are today is still on that. And we can see, we can walk the streets, as an African American, a black interpreter doing a black character, and have no respect got that. We see that. I aint talking about nobody. But, we know what that takes. And we know when you become out of yourself your ancestors. Just doing your job. You aint doing it for wednesdays payday. We know that. We feel that. And it is hard to try to give advice to somebody who dont know that. Because you have got to feel it. And until you are called and nager by somebody that means it , that really means it. And you can take that and know how to come back to it in respect of your ancestors, then you can make it. But you got to go through it. You know what i mean . And excuse me, but, that was 79. And 84 and 85 and 86. That is what you had to have. People came. People went. People hung around. But you could tell it, there was a time where we would go been to some shady places. I remember going to new jersey one time because they wanted to do something. We ended up at a hotel i said rex, they got more. I think we slept in our close that i. Yeah. Was locked in a close eye. We were 1999. The man look at us. One. The both of us and said gigi. He was there for a rotary club or something. But, got up check. But the objective was, we knew that there were people who would come to Colonial Williamsburg on their own. We knew that we had to do an outreach program. Some sort of outreach that allowed us to go into the community, so that they might see us and hopefully, redefine what they thought Colonial Williamsburg represented. So, we went all over the globe. Epically epic and it was, it was to get people to understand that there are a lot of streets in 18 century history. There is a lot of strength in africanamericans, 18thcentury africanAmerican History. And if you will indulge me, i have to name those people in their honor who were in that struggle. Now put on my glasses. Anyway, i already mentioned it was the First Program and first characters, and then there were other programming. Then there was a Storytelling Program. We started doing Storytelling Program with the music teachers room. What is account now . Mary smith. Mary smith has. Right behind that. We did that 23 years. There would be a different black Music Program every year. Would be changed. Which to. The juvenile performer program, because, the program on my own time, there were children using it. Greg johnson and kay smith, so, we had to start a juvenile performer program. Because, the children and programming and they were not in the program. I worked in and understood the ranking to stuff, develop the juvenile performer program where we would have children that would join the program. They had to know the basic history. Then you became a juvenile performer. You had to to basic questions. How many slaves soandso have . What does soandso mean . That sort of thing. And rex made a request at his church, if there were any children that were, you know, interested pick and we ended up with quite a few. Chez davis, alfred mclean. Pandit geneva griffin. George griffin. K smith. Greg johnson. Later on, Richard Josie dern, thanks donald and lisa read. Sandra montgomery. Exactly. There is no well, it could be debatable. But, for me, there is no greater program that we did than that. You can go right down the list of every young person that i mentioned. They mean something. They got what it is we were trying to give them. Because i still got it. We got doctors and interpreters and you name it. Thats what they knew. You know. Thats whats up. You know . We gave our children what it is a needed. But they have the best and what we did. And thats important. Than it was a program called the runaways. And then, thats the outreach program, we had outreach programs that went into the schools, where, you know, we would go into the schools and we would do some programming and do some scenes and that sort of thing. Here at we did a lot of programs and the stage. A lot. From ear to ear. Is probably the best Musical Program in my opinion. That we have ever done. Me, christy, rex and Robert Watson. Sylvia. Sylvia tapley. A second. Us just to mention a few folks, you. Im gonna list them all. People that helped in all of our programs. Jackson. I dont know where she is now. Laverne. Laverne johnson . Yes. Lebron johnson. Maryland taylor, sandra johnson. Sylvia tabb, felix simmons, rose mcafee. Christy emily james, the masters jones. I dont know where lamacchias. He plays the fiddle. She was untrained. She went into the music teachers room, her beethoven and she started playing it. And they asked her when you learn how she said i cant even read music. She just looked at it. She was amazing. Lamacchia. Wonder where she is. Deborah jones. Rest her soul. David barr. Ruth carter. Im sorry. Oscarwinner, ruth carter. You know, just one costume design. Won the oscar for costume design for black panther. She was here. That i. That i. Chris moore, tony freeman. I cant think of what joyces last name was. Mohammed. Greg james. Kathleen kennedy. Later on, there are some people you probably dont know. Wiley brandon. Ishmael conway. Yeah. Together. Linda powell. Who was Colin Powells daughter. Thats. Bush. Den be to pick a me jeremy freed. Yeah. Kristin everly. Robert c watson. Tim moyer, kim salas, greg payne. Lisa reed. Richie butler. And throwing them all in here, yall. Bonnie barnes. O. Kevin kelly, and willis, show me well he. Eugene brown. The guys in the historic homes. The historic holdings. We couldnt do a lot without them. And then we have a video john mont. Charlie brown get the at t grant. Along with a big supporter. William Jimmy Randall mendoza. Thank you marie. And that michelle r carson. Diane carey. Travers and. Just wanna, wanted to put the names out there. Because of their accomplishments at the beginning. And for the first, say, 10 years without those folks and others. And others. Did i say linda turow . You did. Reporter i did . You didnt say pat gibbs. Ive been trying to think of her name all day. Interestingly i came to send. Carry was the one that social history on the start of new look and sort of, what is it . History from the bottom up. Kerry was the one that seriously. Kerry was the one who gave us the privilege gave us harold gill and kevin kelly and lou powers and just a bunch of historians who gave of themselves in so many ways to make sure that we were legitimate. So, in our telling, i cant say that too much. You had to know, you have to know your history. It cannot be a mystery. F others are going to to not only learn from you, but see you as a legitimate teacher. What donald said earlier about, it is very important that you know your history. In many ways, it is your only defense when you are out there on the street, by yourself, and someone comes and says something asinine to you. It is your history that will allow you to move yourself above the perception that they have tacked onto you, simply by looking at you. So, history is a very important. And carry understood that all of the other historians understood that. They were right with us as we created our characters, to make sure that what we did and what we said were legitimate. So that those people who said, oh, they are just playing history. There were people in the foundation who were employees who were saying, oh, they are just playing at doing this. They are just playing at doing that. But, we did more research than most, in terms of making sure that we were ready to hit that street. Not only because we wanted to be authentic, but because it was our armor. Again so many who did not wish us well. I think, if i will add to that, and then coming to work and then working with rex and dylan and others, at such a young age, the value of the historical record was, i mean, really drilled into us. We could not be lazy and repeat what you heard from someone else. This man used to say, whats your citation documentation for what you just said . And, you better be tight and be able to go back to that book, and show him exactly where and why you made that creative and or intellectual decision of how you are doing your character. It was, it wasnt two weeks of training and you were done. It was nonstop. And that, and it was an expectation that you continued to keep it going. Now, i know that some of the people, for those of you who may not know some of these names i just got rattled off, these were allies and people in the program. Kerry carson, specifically, was the Vice President for research. Charles longs worth had been the president of the foundation for years. Took a that is who some of these other people were, from the front line, to the other historical interpreters, who took the right with us. Because, so fast forwarding a little bit. So, i came back to the foundation after working in baltimore at another museum, to finish some academic work. And i came back to williamsburg in 1989. And, at that time, there was a lot of transition. The africanamerican programs was no longer just a subset. It had become its own department. There was an experiment at the Benjamin Powell house. And, the women that i worked with there, it was an extraordinary experiment. Because we were taking this living history thing a little bit for the. We were going to live the day and the life out of property. So, we had, we did stay in character all day. And, we had to learn particular skills of your character. So, i spent, you know, the training took us, god, it took us about six months. And he was like the Program Manager to come out of the Research Department pick and bonnie had us, you know, me and roseann kristin spy v and john, john john lowe. Thank you. So, we had to learn everything from needlepoint to actually going into the cooking program. And we had to learn a certain level of midlife. We had alone all the stuff. So that we could legitimately. Fastforward. So again, first couple of weeks, we got problems. Because, to black women and that this white man in this white woman. This was supposed to be our owners in the house. , we had to set the stage for what we were doing. The historical interpreters would get the orientation to the visitors in the lumbar house. And then they would take them through the building while we were going about our lives and the visitors could ask questions and whatever. So, we had made a strategic decision that my character, kate, was, she was a bit surly. And, she was more, very introverted. And so, the question when people ask a question, her response was often really curt and short. And extraordinarily piercing. Right . Because, inevitably, you know, look. We live in america. We have a really difficult time dealing with the realities of racism and white supremacy, and what slavery did. So, we try to soften it. Part of our bargaining. So inevitably, somebody was going to ask question and they did every day. Well, are they good to you . Slavery isnt that bad, is it . Look how you address. At least you have your children with you. And, you know, it would be that kind of thing, which was, you know, no matter how well intentioned, it is still annoying. On fortunately enough, i was playing a character where i could let that be known. So, but the problem was, that we were doing the work of the household. So, we sat down with barney and i said, matt, listen. I am tired of hollywood everyday. You know, rose and i are hauling buckets of water. We are working in the garden. We are working like slaves. We want to be clear, we portray them. So, we need to work something out with the Landscape Department or something. So, sure enough, they did. They made sure we had would already stacked. They didnt just drop it off in the back of the house. They made sure that the gardens were tended to. So when we went out there and gathered stuff up from the garden, we didnt have to go through all this extra. I mean, it was crazy what we were trying to do. It was profound at the same time. But we had to, we had this area cushion and there was people again, its historic interpreters who agreed to be a part of this program with us. To take people on that journey. So, this was, by that point, we are 10 years in. Right . The first decade has been done and when looking at how we can be better, and there is one persons name that i think we need also highlight here, why wish was on the stage with us. And that is robert c watson. Robert c watson was the director who came in as assistant director and then he became director of africanamerican what he gave us was our african us. In the africanamerican. He had a wealth in that area. He had a wealth of understanding about west African Peoples and traditions and language and material culture, and helped us really dissect that historical record, where despite all of their people like molly brown who was in the archaeology department. As good as they were at understanding 18th century life, their objects and things that they had no intellectual or academic reference. 4. And robert helped provide that groundwork. So, that was, for me, that was also another extremely important game changer. And from the evolution of the program over time. And, yeah. By that time, when we get into the early 90s, we have got robust programming that is going on all day every day all over the historic area. And, you know, we are trying to, and we were, there was Something Else and, because i am going to. One of the things that we, as we were doing this, and we were gaining more allies out in the field with the other interpreters, the question always came, there were two questions that seemed to keep coming up. Whose history is it . And who has a right to teach it . We were going for sort of these cultural discussions and things like that. And, could we . Should be . Even consider bringing white interpreters into African American interpretation . That would be their intellectual and work focus. Should be, could we . And, so, when i became the director and 94, of the program, i would make the decision that we would try it. That we would do it. And, do i regret that . No. But, what it did, is that it created, i believe it really did create a false confidence that, oh, well clearly now, everybody can do it. We are training everybody. We may not need the department anymore. We will just, you know, break it down in different ways. And it was an extraordinarily painful thing for me to figure this out, and how to make it work. Because i understood that the department was not just intellectual focus that we had. But it was this thing that everyone has talked about here. It was about a certain connectedness. We listed each other, lifted each other up with those difficult moments came. So, my concern was, where is the support going to be for the interpreters if they split up . Can they, are they, Strong Enough, given the numbers of people that we have across the foundation in varying roles. I had hoped that they would be Strong Enough to sustain each other. During that period of transition. And it was crazy. We organized and historic areas three times in three years. And it was, it was mindnumbing. It was absolutely mindnumbing, trying to kind of keep this, like, cocoon, well all of these other transitions were going on. And, at the end of the day, i think that the program, what ended up happening is that nobody had their eye on it the same way. And did not have the same resources as being at the directors table. And theyre in, i thought was the big difference. It just became one of the programs that i am responsible for, versus someone advocating every day for those resources. And, you know, again, that was a point for me a real struggle. During that time. On the Positive Side of it, is that it did broaden this idea that all of this is our story of williamsburg. You cannot understand early america, you cannot understand how we could evolve as a nation, allegedly built on the ideals of freedom and liberty and all of those wonderful words that we said in the midst of slavery. And so, we were able to really delve into the political and social and emotional intricacy of that. So, that is when, you know, i, we started pushing this idea a lot harder. Because we had never had white actors that were working with us. We now had, you know, folks that were doing the other half tore. We had more influence in what was happening on the tours themselves through the historic area. So that every house, the idea was that every building that you went into, you heard the story from the interpreters. And, that was when Steve Elliott was Vice President of the foundation. And bob wilburn, who was a big advocate of this. He was, bob was a huge advocate of this. And that has been the first big test really for us, which when way did the estate slave auction event. And 94. And our team, africanamerican interpreters team, agreed together that we would do it. But everybody knew that they could not take that stage. And, you know, talk to dylan about it. Adele and i need you there. Dylan came and portrayed somebody for us in the crowd as the freeman. It was just a different, that next decade, again, was testing what we had done. To see, you know, could we make this work on a larger scale the way we said we wanted every visitor to know who walked through Colonial Williamsburg, that 52 of the population was black. Everyone had to know that basic fact. And what it meant. Right . Does i dont think that we talked about the actual structure of the department, and how we got to where christie is speaking up. Rex can speak to a better than i. But, i know, because i was supervisor of the interpreters and during the program. And so, in the beginning, we had africanamerican programs, which was an entity in itself. People that interpreted what the people that did Evening Programs. And those who were in what was called, what we would call ccp, which is a company of colonial performers. And so, but africanamerican programs was part of that. So, anybody that was in costume that did Evening Programs was fair game to do any of our programs. And as christy had mentioned about the characters at the powerhouse, they werent in the same department, but we saw each other. We did programs together. We went to greenleaf cafi afterward to get a burger. You know . You know. I mean, we talked to each other and we had a group of people that were on the same mission. And we could share those, what happened during the days kind of events. Later on, and maybe, maybe we will share a little bit more when we talk to the employees about some other things that need to be said. But this is not the right for him to say it. Because, there are just certain things that you keep in your house. But, anyway, when they got, when christy is speaking of them no better word, then to water down, the mission. To water down the interpretation , by taking you and putting you in different areas. That was no, that was nothing new. It had been tried before. But, wasnt successful. What im trying to say is that we had become a group of interpreters that knew the value and the strength of that togetherness and mission. And those who interpreted africanAmerican History. The time, the times were changing. Administrations were changing. Vice president s were changing. And, things were basically changing. Cant go back to where we were. But didnt want to take a step back, and things were a little bit different. There is a, one thing i wanted to say about the estate sale. When it started in the protest started and all of that happened, i kind of saw the ringleader. I got off to the side. And right before the sale of all the items, i kinda did like that. He came to sit beside me. Said, you know that they do severe. He said, what . I said, the doing an estate sale of your. They do this every year. He said really . I said yeah. I said watch. You just watch. You gotta come out. I knew what was happening. Said the sell the land. Watching. They did whatever. Said the only difference is that the department wanted him to see a face. They wanted to see a situation. They wanted to see a mother pregnant, sold. They wanted to see a family being split up, so. Because normally, they do so sally. And you never see sally. And so they do is happier . I did the severe. Every year. I do they want you to see somebody. They want to put out to this. He said yeah and the christy cannot. And Robert Watson came out with his this is a sale. Men listen. Listen. He listened. By the end of all of that, he said, if i wouldve known the history, maybe we wouldnt be here. I went, okay. So, whoever was in charge of explaining what they were going to see, weeks before hand. They didnt do a good job. Im sorry, i did. No. No. No. No, no, no. Go back and explain to them what youre talking about. You want just talking to a visitor. Oh, no. You were talking to protesters. A lot may not know about the protest. Go back and christy could probably explain in more than me. All i know is that the reaction to the estate sale every year there is an estate sale. Every year, Colonial Williamsburg did a program on columbus day weekend called the kings ascension weekend. Part of the programming had always been one of these auctions on the steps of one of the taverns. So, we were still africanamerican programs then. And, we had a conversation about, isnt it about time . So, that didnt happen, that happened, that originated in africanamerican interpretations. We took that to bonnie. And we said, this is what we want to do. And, like, oh my god, are you sure . Like, yeah. Thats what we want to do. So, i went out and started talking to local naacp. I talked to folks in the churches that, you know, st. Johns, first baptist, little zion. The interpreters to the sale. We were out, we thought, ahead of it by getting to our community. What blew it up was when the Richmond Times dispatch, somebody who didnt know, right . Somebody who didnt know, didnt bother to call, put in like this little missy kind of editorial before i knew it i had friends calling from new york say hey, i hear youre getting ready to sell black people to tourists in williamsburg. Mike, man, you kidding me . So we did have to heavily, heavily manage the story, because the spin was in every different direction you could imagine. By the time we got there, and yeah, it was crazy. Crazy. I was in arizona. At Luke Air Force base. In my barracks room, watching yall on cnn, and i picked up the phone and called renate. And i talked to panetta jones. And rose. I didnt want to be in the military. When i saw that clip. I wanted to come home. Because i wanted to be home with my family. And, i think, i know time is running out. So, there was one thing that has been said. And we have kind of talked about this a little bit and i think its, before we open up for q a, i would love to hear somebody unpack for me, or explained to the people, the togetherness. Chrissy, you explained the situation that you had. And you had a support system. I dont, and coming, and having been in minnesota, its a whole different environment a whole different situation, i can understand how important that support network was. Amongst you all and many other folks, some folks in the audience. How did you all get that . I would say a certain routing in faith. We had a certain faith tradition. So, when we were in points of crisis that we would know, or even points of joy, there was no hesitation about holding each others hands and saying a prayer before programs. Actually, we used to do that practically every program. The challenge came from us later when we had Staff Members who came and who had different faith traditions. Particularly, if they were muslim, or we have one person that came in later was buddhist. And you dont want to create an environment where they dont feel welcome. Right. But we still have to kind of embrace them in that moment. So, that, i will say, that sort of initial routing in faith and just lord, watch over us, kind of thing. That required not only the lord watching over you, but you had watch for each other. And so, that was, i know for me, one of the things. And then it is just shared experience. There wasnt, listen. Weather it was 79 or 89 or 99, i can tell you right now, there werent a lot of people doing the work that we were doing. Bottom line. It wasnt like you could, as a matter of fact, one of the the site wherever people landed on, choosing had done that auction. What it did change was at other institutions, the phone calls and the letters that i got from monticello, mount vernon, not hillier, all of them saying, my god, if you can do that, we at least can be talking about black residence at our sites. Yeah. So, it changed the game and that way. But again, there still werent that many black people doing costume work, let alone in museum work beyond the ethnic specific institutions. , we were in a funny place with some of them. Right . Our colleagues in ethnic specific institutions, you know, were like why are you over the doing that . You need to be working in your own institutions, where you are really going to be leveled. Thats another thing. Its, that to me, is what created it. That is the space. We had shared experience. We had a respect for the work. We had a shared space tradition. And, we just were passionate about what we had to do. It wasnt what we chose to do. It was what we had to do. And so, its different, and people have come in and out of this journey. Because it is wearing work. It is wearing work. Someone. When christie was speaking of religion, i remember, and my problem is i name names. Sanford and mohammed was muslim. He came to me for blackand white program. He said i want to do a champion for this program. Said what kind of chanter you can do . He said im gonna do a muslim gent. I said sing it for me. Whatever. You know. No. Is not like it was true. I said what are you saying . Isolated. Ready down. He started the program with it. People in the audience didnt know what he was saying unless you were muslim. But, it is the fact that he wanted to do something for his faith. Now, we had jehovah witness. And we had white folk. We dont know. You couldve been catholic. Largest atheist. Dont know. As a matter fact, yes. Yes. But you know what . They filled in the circle. When we prayed. They held hands with everybody else. When we prayed. It aint their prayer, but it had to do with that togetherness and purpose. And, that is what we had. You know. And that respective real religion regardless. It was what we were doing that what was important. Right. I came back in 2001. To be Vice President of historic area. And one of the first things that i remember doing publicly, was, a gathering of Fire Department and police and everyone. 9 11. Because there were people here who were visitors who really didnt know how to sort of take what was happening. Our world changed. Our entire world changed. During 9 11. And i remember colin campbell, who was the president then said rex, i want you to lead the ceremony on the strips of the capital. That was the courthouse. Was the place that we all did it. And, we invited visitors and everybody else came. I didnt know what to say. And i ended up saying at the beginning, we might have come to this country on different ships. But we are in the same boat now. That was what i think would answer your question. Weather we were muslim, or whether we were buddhist or whether we were catholic. Whatever were, when we donned that costume, there was a shared camaraderie that didnt supersede faith and religion. But allowed us to embrace all of the religions, even those who were questioning whether religion was possible, because we were all in the same boat. We were all dealing with the same things. We were all trying to make sense and trying to create dignity and trying to create integrity, and trying to educate the public that came. All of us were trying to do it in our own individual ways to me but we were all trying to do the same thing. So, we were all in the same boat, richard. You know, thinking of, i was thinking of those people that i mentioned. And how much more expensive that is. Because, there were many people and some of the Historic Buildings that interpreted the guides, who were just as supported, they did not know how to say anything other than good job with the not. So, although, these group of black folks, there are a lot of white folks that were behind us. You know, i did, im gonna say this i did a program, i told the stories at the National Voting Rights Museum outside of selma. And they had a group of, group is there, the freedom singers. Heard them sing their songs. And afterward, we were at a picnic table. And i said, tell me something i wouldnt know. Unless i was a freedom singer. They say, will you know, we we somehow they raise money to get people out of jail who were being jailed for civil Rights Violations asked i, but whatever we did our music, we couldnt go. We couldnt leave because it would see us. We were the only black people there. I said and they went always be the clan out on the road. He said what we would do is, and given away the secrets. He said, some jewish people we would get in the truck and we would go to separate houses. And we would get in their trunk because as we went by the clan, they wouldnt see any black people. They just the cars going by. That about 34 in the morning we would meet up somewhere and get back together and get out of town. Really . s he said really . He said you wouldnt know how people helped us during that time. White people helped us. And i have always thought about that. Because, although, as said its American History. And there are some people that embrace that. Because, they may have a certain history that is not being told. Women, you know . Children. Thats why i love juvenile Performance Program because we put children at the. Even in hiring people, in the beginning, one of the variety. Its hard to get men. But we had to have a variety. We had to have a 50yearolds and 60yearolds and gray hairs. We had one or two, which we are now. Africa yeah. Okay you know, its good to have a range of people. But, there is a lot of support. There was a lot of support in the churches. Once they figured out what was going on. You know, it just takes a while. But once they said oh yeah, theyre doing something positive. We like that, too. And then going around. The employees. Even the people in the hotels. And the props. I got to go way back. Big props to this brother that was a kings arms when i was in pipe and drum with drum major would go down the street, i would always salute them. Because the brother would be out there, he would be serving. He got there, thats my man. Thats my mamma there. Thats my man. And big props to him. She was 100 years old. Whenever we shut, she heard the pipe sentence, she would come and sit there and she would always wave and i would salute her every time. Thats the kind of encouragement that the African American programs needed. And, if we dont get it from the left, we did it from each other. That was what was important. Because we understood, you know, we understood what the day was like and what you may have gone through. So, i think we run out of time. We run out of time . But we want to take a couple questions. Im willie give the mic if your name has been called, please stand so you can recognize who you are. Thank you. [ applause ] all right. I think that your point at the end about how did we do this is relative, because, in 79, i came in and 79. Brought some people who had some heart, too. Because it wasnt easy. And we had to rely on each other. I remember as a muslim, i wondered, we did some research and we found that there were ms. , muslims and a 52 . There were some people that never gave up the tradition. Play that character very often. But i also played reverend. You know. So, we had to deal with those traditions. And i want to share two things that happened. 1 was, it was the night tours. And virginia has this unique rain that comes at night. Not really raining, but its nasty. Africa and i had to be out there at night. And people would walk up to me and kind of, i would leap at them. Sometime i just make it prayers or whatever out there. I got cold. I only had on a white shirt. I got cold. And i will never forget harvey cradle came up to me and said, i need a jacket. Im losing my voice. Im an active. He brought me back an old blanket. And he said, if you were a slave, this is all you would have gotten. And that was powerful. And, that did something that christy said and i dont want you to miss it. The word she used. This experience taught me never to use the word slave again. My people were not slaves. They were enslaved. Theres a difference. Well ill let you all think about that. 2nd point was, i went to lori island. And i carried my costume. And i the school that corey island. As i left in tears, the students and the teacher said, the african knows of michael jordan. But he doesnt know you. Nobody let us tell our story over those 400 years. To our people at gory, at st. Louis, and so, think about that. Final point. There are probably only 200 actual tapes of people who were enslaved. Now in the national archives. There are not many. In my right, rex . There were not many. So, we did the best that we could. And i am dr. Ishmael conway and this is my wife, dr. Anna conway and me both were interpreters and we took the work on as a way to with the stage company. And we spent a career interpreting. I am very proud and honored to be here. [ applause ] first of all, i would like to say that, this has been a real eyeopening experience for me. My wife and i moved here to williamsburg because of your story. We did not have a clue. I grew up all over the United States and one of the alltime strangest places i ever lifted my life was mississippi. And i was nine years old. I didnt understand. Now, i get a sense of what the was going on, because i was too young to get a. You are to be commended. And congratulated for putting it out there in terms of the risk and the emotional risk that you have put on that stage, that you went into battle on the streets in williamsburg. Everyday. I consider it an incredible honor to meet you. Thank you. [ applause ] i have a question. That i would like to ask. Can you stand up . Were there any free slaves that were merchants during the 1700s . You mean free black people . Yes. Yes. Merchants in williamsburg . In williamsburg. Or merchants that were black, that were free slaves . Friedman. Okay. Dont be upset. I dont know of any. I know of somebody in your town in 18thcentury. I cant think of the brothers name. But i dont know of any in williamsburg that would have i dont know of them. [ inaudible ] and there were, you know, these were people who plied their own trade and play their own and made, there were black so also would have gardens. And stole vegetables and things like that on the weekends. In market square. In terms of entrepreneurs in 18thcentury, aperture they were few and far between. I dont know, ive forgotten what i did know about the york county records. The one that comes to mind. Martha can answer that. [ inaudible ] i think we are missing a part of that picture. If you talk a little bit [ inaudible ]. No doubt. No doubt. Grove was the rural story for Colonial Williamsburgs story. And, what was the year . 1988. You can hear me. 1988. We had alex haley come, and help us to open the slave corridor at cottage grove. For the first time we were able to tell that rural story. It was a huge debate that you know about, martha. That had us interpret and build slave quarters right at the entrance to the estate. They actually changed the direction so that when you came to Carters Grove, before you saw the Carters Grove mansion, you had to pass through the slave corridor. In order to see it. What an interesting adventure that was. I will never forget, arthur johnson. At that time, our was huge. And art stood at the beginning of the orientation. The orientation was over, people would go into the Orientation Center there, there was a gift shop and restrooms and there was a film that you were given. And then, you would come through the back of the center, and that would lead you to, across the bridge, and into Carters Grove proper. And they had a debate. The archaeologist and hume, and bill kelso had an argument about whether it was a tanning pit or whether it was a slave housing that was at the beginning. Bill kelso one, and they put slave housing right there at the end of the path, and you had to pass through that before you went to Carters Grove. But there were people who would go across the bridge, like they didnt see the slave quarters. There were three buildings there. But, at all they would see is the mansion. Just at the top of the hill. They would make a beeline towards the mansion. A beeline. Arthur was so big, until he could stand and put his hand on one end of the on the other end of the gate to stop people just because as you came off the gate, you could see the slave quarters. And so, art did that. He stood there because he knew the group of people who are going to be out of the film and coming across the bridge. And they came across the bridge. And art i know youre trying to get to the magic. But let me, let me just ask you one question. Anybody here related to the duponts, raise your hand . Raise your hand. Nobody raised epic anybody related to the rockefellers . Rockefellers, rager had. Nobody raised their hand. He said, pointing to the slave corridor and he said, welcome home. [ applause ] i should have give him a raise after that. And then you had the other employees i wont mention her name but you all know exactly what talk about. You want to stop here . Come on over here. The crazy over there. We got one here. I was educated in virginia and i went to high school and took virginia history. But until i can to williamsburg and got to experience the interpreters. Hold on. It must not be on. Shes got to put into her mouth. Okay. I have never had this problem before. Those of you who know me, i never had this problem. I want to echo the gentleman behind me. And his congratulations to you. And my question to you is, where will my great grandchild go to hear the story that you told today . Because, it is a compelling story. It is ripe in this country right now, as we experience the great divide. We have to know. We have to know the pain and the struggle that it took for you to portray what was really happening in this place. It is American History. It is very, very important. Because those of us who were educated here, we did not get it. I am not young. Well, okay, i would like to be young. But, i went to high school and Junior High School here in the 60s. I graduated in 73 in hampton. I attended Hampton University. I did not know dr. Ellis. But i wanted to know, where will we go to hear your stories that were told today . They are recording it right back there. So, the one thing i will say is that Colonial Williamsburg has always done an extraordinary job with archiving. One of the things that we promised each other in our sort of pretalk was to be as emotionally honest about this as we could, even as we saved some names to protect the innocent and not so. But, it is being digital, digitized. It is archived. I think it will be shared first with those employees who wanted to see them first. And after that, i dont know. But, that is the one thing that i will say, is that they have some photographic records to the videography and things that were taken over the years. There is an incredible programmatic archive here. So, my only hope is that they get it digitized, uploaded, so that people can get to it easily. That is the key. At the beginning, beth mentioned, that there were two other programs that they were going to be having one in june, i believe. July and october. One in october. So, please come back for those programs. But also, interpretively, [ inaudible ] she does a lot of programs and. I mentioned her because she is an example of the kind of connection that, historical interpreters, especially africanamerican interpreters would meet with audience who want to talk about race and want to talk about issues that are very difficult. Still, but find a way, and find the courage to do it here. Valerie williams is somebody who can Valerie Holmes. Thats her. Thats her. Valerie gray home. She, at the end of her programs, has more people outside, waiting in lines to talk with her about not 18th century issues, but about current issues. I hope that there are more characters created in the africanamerican Program Staff here that allow audiences to connect. To make connections that are not just 18thcentury connections, but that are human to human connections. I know richard did that. I know i did that. I know christy did that. Will do it. There are so many ways that if you just take the leap, you can talk with interpreters, who number 1 have been trained enough to know the history. But number 2, want to in many ways talk with people who are interested in hearing more than a monologue. More than a few minutes. But want to hear more about the experiences of the 18th century, as well as contemporary experiences as well. So, i suggest that as you run into those characters, that you take advantage of knowing them, and delving deeply into the rich history that they have all been studying for so long. Also, i would like to say that, whatever it is, that you can give that great grandchild as a storyteller, i tell a story and i create something. I am always thinking of, okay, this disconnected, this is connected to that. Our young people need to hear what has already gone on. So that they can make connections. You know, trey von, thats now. What about 60s . What about what happened in the 60s . What about the 40s . And with the internet now, all of the stories coming up. I question them first of all. Because everything that i read aint true. No. No. Example. I read about, i dont know if you have seen this thing about putting rice in your hair. Africans but risa the head with a braided it so they had something to eat on in the middle passage. When i read that, i went. I said theyre more concerned about rice than getting out the vote. That they are preparing for the middle passage. And the person at the other end said you learn something every day. You just learn something new. I said no i didnt. Use a Little Common sense. But anyway, all i am saying is that there are little connections. History, but then you say, okay, what did Valerie Holmes just tell me . So, it is seeing a program and saying what does this mean . And where have i seen this before . That is why i have always said that africanamericans have long memories. And we see things from 50 years ago that we know our ancestors saw. And we call it out. We know racism when we see it. We know when people good morning. We know that stuff because we have done that. We have had to do epic we have had to say, oh, good morning to you, maam. So, we know that. And we see it and pick it up real quick. Thats because that history has taught us what its like to hear the same thing and to see the same thing. So, the story we hear are still being told. A little bit different now. We want to stop and certainly acknowledge beth kelly. Yes. And steven seals, who is not here. And he is, where is he . Iceland. Celebrating his wedding. He just got married. We just want to give honor to them for taking the time. [ applause ] and understanding the importance of this, as you say, it is not just important tonight. It is important for so many reasons, and so many spaces and places we dont have an opportunity to sit and talk seriously about these kinds of issues. Somebody is on one side, somebodies on the other. And, nobody is having a conversation like this. Not enough conversations like this going on. So, i hope Colonial Williamsburg the lead, and continue these kinds of conversations that you hear. There are those that would like to hear. Even more of these kind of conversations as well. And i believe we have room for were going to do one me right here. We can stay back we will be able to stay back. We can hang out. I also wanted to thank you for what you are doing here and sharing all your experiences. But also, what i wanted to know, is its happening today, its the same type of support that you say you had during that time. Is that happening with the black interpreters today . And do the white interpreters also know how it is affecting, you know, everybody . Honestly, i havent worked at Colonial Williamsburg since 1999. I have lets talk about it on july 5, she says. Thats the focus on the contemporary program. It may not be as dynamic as we are. [ applause ] thank you all very much for joining us tonight. [ applause ] thank you. This Holiday Weekend on American History tv. Saturday at 10 pm on real america, the 1970 film, honor america day. The july 4 celebration at the National Mall featured comedian bob hope and the reverend billy graham. She has never hidden her problems unfolds. With out freedom of the press and open communication system, we dont sweep our sins under the rug. If if racial tension exists, as riots occur, the whole world knows about it. Instead of an iron curtain, we have a picture window. And sunday at 6 pm eastern on american artifacts. Living history hobbyist, crate hall, portrays a soviet cavalry officer and discusses the soviet unions role in world war ii. One month before dday, we had them occupying 65 maybe of the best german troops, fighting us. If we had not done that, if they had not failed if we had mailed that moscow or stalingrad or kursk, all of those troops could well have been on the normandy beaches and it couldve been a different outcome. So, the story that had to be told us that thats a significant contribution to winning the war. Watch on American History tv on cspan 3. American history tv products are now available at the new cspan online store. Go to cspan store. Org to see whats new for American History tv. And check out all of the cspan products. The cspan city store is exploring the american story. As we take the tv and American History tv on the road. In cooperation with our spectrum cable partners, this weekend, we take you to missoula, montana. With a population of about 66,000, montanas second largest city sits in the western part of the state. And the heart of the northern rocky mountains. We see bears here all the time. Particularly in the fall when they are out looking for both wild and domestic route in the valley. The state of things for grizzlies and humans in the west is, this is crucial moment where we have to decide how much space are going to make for these wild animals. Particularly difficult wild animals like the grizzly. Join us saturday at noon on cspan 2s and other offerings. Sunday at 2 pm a look at missoula continues on cspan 3s American History tv. Smoke jumping started in 1939. The goal of a smoke jumper is to parachute into wildfires that is inaccessible to other firefighting resources. We are jumping of the spires in the wilderness and keeping those things from becoming massive wildfires. The cspan city store. Exploring the american story. First and third weekend each month. As we take book tv, and American History tv on the road. The book, the road to charleston Nathanael Greene of the American Revolution, describes our general grain reversed a series of losses. And eventually defeated the british in the Southern Theater of the war for independence. Next, author and historian John Buchanan discusses his new look at the American Revolution institute of the society of the cincinnati and washington dc. Good evening and welcome. I am kelsey atwood, tort and public Program Manager for the american manager institute of the society of cincinnati. My at i am