Transcripts For CSPAN3 Federal Trade Commission Confirmation Hearing Part 1 20180215

And Transportation Committee heard from the four nominees on issues including antitrust laws, Prescription Drug pricing, Credit Rating agencies and the influence of Big Tech Companies like google and facebook. This hearing is 2 1 2 hours. Good morning. Today we welcome four nominees to testify before the committee as we consider their nominations to serve as commissioners of the federal trade commission. Nominated to serve as a commissioner and ftc chairman and his credentials are impressive. Mr. Simon served as the ftcs chief antitrust enforcer, among other positions the the commission. Most recently, he served and was partner and cochair of the entrust group at a law firm. Christine wilson is an antitrust and Consumer Protection attorney who served as Vice President for regulatory and International Affairs at delta airlines. She too as worked at the commission before serving as chief of staff to kim murris during the george w. Bush administration. Noah Joshua Phillips is a familiar face to many of us, as he currently serves as chief counsel to senator john cornyn, where he advises on issues such as antitrust and intellectual property. Finally. Mr. Chopra has extensive experience in Government Service and as a consumer advocate. He currently serve previously served in senior paroles at the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau and the department of education. Thank you all for being here. Welcome to your friends and families who are also joining us. The ftc is not the largest or most Wellknown Agency under this committees jurisdiction, but it is arguably one of the most influential. The ftc was founded in 1914 by the direction of congress and for more than a century, the commission hat evolved alongside changing Market Dynamics and consumer preferences. The agency was born out of concern that more needed to be done to ensure competitive markets in the state and bust the trust that threatened that competition. The commissions focus soon expanded to include a mandate to enforce against unfair and deceptive action practices that threatens consumers. Dual focus on competition and Consumer Protection is ensuring freedom in the marketplace. The ftc has been a strong cop on the beat ensuring that americans reap the benefits from a functioning economy, not one dominated by firms with unfairly concentrated market power. The ftc has also made it possible for americans to be confident in their transactions, to spend freely and know they are frequented from the frauds teres and cheats that would do them harm. In order to reduce at mount of sugar that children eat. This Regulatory Overreach led the congress to advance heightened safeguards to promulgate rules and led one media outlet to criticize the commission as the Great National nanny. The commissions assertiveness and the breath of its jurisdiction have earned the ftc other nicknames as well. More recently, the agency has been called the federal technology commission. That nickname is an appropriate one, given the administrations increased focus on the american tech sector and the growing influence of Silicon Valley on the american economy. Its my expectation that the ftc will continue on this beat. Privacy remain issues each one of these nominees will contend with once confirmed. Where it finds material misrepresentation and it must bring unfairness cases where it finds substantial harm. Once again, i want to thank all of you for testifying today. For your willingness to fill these critical posts and ill turn now to our Ranking Member, senator nelson, for his opening remarks. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator blumenthal has kindly agreed to step in as ranking today. Since i have to be in three places at once. When the federal trade commission was a small agency, its getting bigger, its one with a big responsibility, protecting American Consumers. Whether it involves small time robocallers, multimillion dollar pay day lenders or giant Silicon Valley tech companies, the ftc acts as a cop on the beat that polices a whole host of unscrupulous practices that put american pocketbooks at risk. And its not just financial h m harm, Public Health can also be at stake. In the past, the ftc has cracked down on cigarette advertisement aimed at kids or on phony Sports Equipment claiming to prevent concussions. Just recently the ftc and the fda sent warning letters to 11 companies who were touting opioid cessation products. Given the depth of the Opioid Crisis in our country, its unconscionable that anyone would prey on desperate families in need of help, but they do. And while the recent action by the ftc is a positive step, it also raises serious questions about why the agency waiting so long to address this epidemic Opioid Crisis. Where was the ftc all these years when drug manufacturers were making deceptive marketing claims about the risk associated with oxycontin and other opioids . Given this reality, its absolutely essential that the agency fulfills its mission to protect American Consumers in a nononsense, nonpartisan and independent manner. Unlike other independent agencies, it has a long tradition of acting on a consensus basis. The ftcs mission is too important for individual commissioners to let politics or special interests impede the agencys Law Enforcement work. And if confirmed, i expect the nominees, and ive met with them privately, to continue the tradition of past commissioners and work in a constructive bipartisan and independent manner. And finally, let me say a word about Net Neutrality. Simply put, the ftc is not the agency for Net Neutrality. Despite the Amazing Things the ftc does, it does not have the expertise, the resources or the authority to adopt forwardlooking rules to protect broadband consumers. Thats in the fcc. Thats why youll see coming to the senate a cra to restore the fccs critical Net Neutrality protections. That cra, though somebody is not inconsistent with my continuing belief in the long term, as i have discussed over and over as senator thune and i have consulted and collaborated on this. That only a lasting bipartisan Net Neutrality legislation with real protections can bring the certainty necessary to fully protect consumers and preserve the fccs authority. And i thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator nelson. I would say here here to that last statement. Hopefully with this committee well be able to get there in due time. A couple of our colleagues id like to welcome to the Commerce Committee here today. I first want to recognize the president pro tem of the United States senate, senator hatch. Hes here to introduce joseph simon. Senator hatch, youre recognized. Thank you so much, mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear. It is my distinct pleasure to introduce joe simmons as nominee for chairman of the federal trade commission. Weve all been eagerly waiting for this hearing because we all know its high time to get things up and running again at the ftc. Though now over 100 years old, its Mission Remains as critical today as it was when first established. The United States is the economic marvel of the world. Our market system in which entrepreneurs are free to build and consumers are free to choose has proven an engine of prosperity without equal. But as i need not remind members of this committee excuse me a free enterprising economy will face its full potentially as only so long as institutions like the ftc keep our markets free, fair and competitive. Striking that balance has always been exceedingly difficult. No less now than in the past. So for all the prosperity of our system and all the prosperity our system has delivered, for all it promises to deliver, still today there is a palpable anxiety about our economy and its trajectory. Concerns are being raised about corporate consolidation and the conduct of some of our biggest firms, questions of data privacy and security loom large, thus the next two years will prove a critical time in the history of the ftc. The concerns are real. The policy choices are difficult. And the pressure brought to bear are likely to be heavy. Ultimately, chairman thune, that is why i am so pleased to be here to make this introduction. Let me say this and let me be clear, joe simons is just the man this moment requires. The president could not have made a better choice for this crucial role. I have to say, of course, he is superbly qualified to lead the commission as chairman. He was educated at cornell and georgetown law. He served in several important posts at the ftc, including director of the bureau of competition and was both a partner and leader of the antitrust group at the law firm paul weiss. But more importantly than resume, joe simons is also uniquely suited both by temperament and character to take up this charge. At his tenure at the ftc on both merger and conduct cases, he earned a reputation for skill, integrity and vigor. His enforcement decisions, both when to proceed and just as importantly, when not to, reflected expertise, a keen sense for economics and a practical feel for the operation of markets. Indeed, the methods he developed have been adopted and used by administrations of both parties and judges of all philosophical approaches. Once in private practice, he was called upon by both private clients and Public Institutions to sheppaherd and handle the mo difficult problems and most sensitive and important of matters. As the ftc charts its course through the modern era, joe simons experience and stature will make him just the steady hand that the markets, the bar and consumers expect. Of course, the ftc is more than just its chairman. Before this committee is an excellent slate. Christine wilson is a recognized leader in competition law. And i have Great Respect for her. Mr. Chopra is a widely regarded expert in Consumer Protection. And noah phillips, of course, is part of our family here in the senate. Consistently over the years, he has proven a reliable counselor to senator cornyn as well as an honest and productive broker in working with other senate offices. I know hell make an exceptional commissioner. In conclusion, mr. Chairman, i commend the president on such outstanding nominees and i applaud this committee for its extraditi expedition in moving them forward. Let there be no mistake, this is an excellent package and it deserves bipartisan support. Led by joe simons we can trust the ftc will faithfully fulfill its mandate and continue its tradition on bipartisan lawmakers and tackle the challenges ahead. Thank you, chairman hatch. My chairman of the Senate Finance committee, along with senator cornyn and a few others on this panel as well. Were also joined by another distinguished member of the senate leadership, our whip, senator cornyn from texas, and he is here to introduce noah phillips. Senator cornyn . Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thanks to Ranking Member blumenthal and the members of the committee. Im honored to be here, as youve heard, to introduce an extremely wellqualified candidate, noah phillips, to be the federal trade commissioner. Youve already said, mr. Chairman, and others have acknowledged that noah served as my chief counsel, which is to his great credit. Heaven knows i need all the help i can get. Noahs helped guide me in my legislative portfolio through complex issues on the Judiciary Committee during his tenure. His intelect shines most when hes faced with technical topics that would intimidate even the most seasoned lawyers, intellectual property, privacy issues, antitrust and constitutional law, but hes also showed, as senator hatch has noted, a knack for building consensus with folks on the other side of the aisle when necessary to get things done. This is becoming increasingly rare these days, and its one of the reasons hes been a very valued member of my staff. Trading judicial confirmation hearings on proposed corporate merges may seem like four hearings on proposed corporate hearings may seem like a big career change, but noah actually started out in the financial world in new york city after graduating from college. After completing law school at stanford, noah clerked on the fifth Circuit Court of appeals and located in san antonio and came to the realization of so many folks that so many folks have when they spend time in my state, he learned to really like texas. We see a lot of that. Ill spare you the impressive list of law firms hes worked for, but he soon found his way back to texas and on to my staff. His legal resume is remarkable, as the work hes done with the Judiciary Committee, working behind the scenes on important victims rights laws like the holocaust exappropriated art restoration act. Beyond the hearing room, noah is a man of strong moral character and quick wit, as further confirmation of his bipartisan credentials, his wife sarah worked for u. S. Aid and the National Security council during the obama administration. He is the father to three wonderful children who youve already heard some from this morning and perhaps youll hear more from as the hearing continues. As a commissioner, noah will use his evenhanded experience and patented antitrust law to better protect consumers. Capitol hill staff may come and go, but this is a loss that will be felt by my office and the entire senate Judiciary Committee. I know the commission and our country will be better off during his tenure and i thank you for your consideration of this deserving and wellqualified nominee. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator cornyn. Were grateful for our colleagues willingness to come here and testify on behalf of the nominees, and so thank you for being here. Im going to ask our nominees if they would come forward. Im going to recognize in just a minute the senator of this committee, senator capito to introduce one of the other noms as well. But well get rolling. I want to recognize senator capito. Thank you. She is here to introduce ms. Christine wilson. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank all the nominees, but i particularly want to thank President Trump for nominating Christine Wilson as nominee as ftc commissioner to the committee. Shes an absolute stellar candidate. Ms. Wilson works in washington, d. C. And lives in falls church, virginia. She has recently purchased farmland in morgan county, west virginia. Christine and her husband both have relatives who have lived and worked in the region in the 1700s and 1800s. So when they break ground on this house in march, it will be something of a homecoming for them and West Virginians will welcome them home. Aside from being one of my newest constituents, id like to highlight her work with women and human trafficking. Included in the plans of ms. Wilsons recently purchased farm land is her hope to open a retreat for victims of sexual trafficking and abuse. I look forward to hoping that that comes true because thats an issue that many of us care deeply about. On the professional front, as you can tell from her bio, for over 20 years, an advocate of a simple but vital truth at the heart of American Economic greatness, competition is the best protection for consumers and the strongest prescription for a healthy economy. Belief that consumers benefit most from robust competition was at the heart of christines work as chief of staff to the ftc chairman under president george w. Bush. And confidence that market economies increase Consumer Choice and reduce prices has grounded her many contributions to the sound development of competition law and policy. Both domestically and internationally. If confirmed, i know christine will bring to bear as an ftc commissioner the extensive experience that she has gained, both in private practice and in the public sector. I look forward to hearing from her and the other nominees today. Thank you, christine, for your commitment to our country and your public service. Thank you. Thank you, senator capito. So were going to proceed. Well start on my left, your right, with mr. Simons. If we could ask our panelists if they could to confine their oral remarks as close to five minutes as possible, your entire statements will be included and made a part of the record. Well get on to our questioning. So, mr. Simons, please proceed. Chairman thune, Ranking Member blumenthal and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify today. And thank you to senator hatch for those very kind words. Ill do my best to live up to them. It is truly an honor to appear before you especially regarding this particular nomination. The federal trade commission is an institution that is very close to my heart. The ftc has a great mission, it deals with fascinating and important issues, and most importantly, it has a terrific staff. As i mentioned to a few of you, in some ways it feels like ive spent my entire professional life preparing for this opportunity. As a much younger lawyer back in the 1980s, i worked at the agency as an assistant to the director of the bureau of competition. A little over a decade later, i returned to run the bureau of competition at the ftc. And while in private practice, i have for many years represented clients before the ftc and the antitrust division of the department of justice. Throughout all of that time, i never gave much thought to the possibility that i might one day find myself before this committee as a nominee to lead the commission. But personally, i cannot imagine a greater professional honor. Of course, none of this would have been possible without the support of friends and family. First and foremost, i definitely would not be here today without the love and support of my wife marta. Martha. Also with me here are my son jack michelle, lauren, my brotherinlaw jim and his wife lynn and several of our Close Friends and my cousin jeff. My daughter lauren is watching from cornell and i cant thank all of them enough for their support. The federal trade commission is a proud and respected institution in washington. Since its creation a little over 100 years ago, its work has proven critical to increasing the growth of our economy. By vigorously policing anticompetitive conduct and preventing anticompetitive consolidation, the commission can help ensure that firms compete on the merits, providing better products and services to consumers at lower prices. Likewise, by stamping out unfair and deceptive trade practices, the commission can help ensure that consumers are protected and have information they need to make intelligent choices in the marketplace. In sum, the ftc is all about protecting and improving consumer welfare. And as has already been discussed, one of the great things about the ftcs mission historically is that it has been performed in a highly bipartisan way. I pledge to you today that if honored with confirmation, i will continue to lead the ftc in that rich tradition of bipartisan policymaking and enforcement. I look forward to working alongside my fellow commissioners of both parties to assure that the ftc remains as effective in the start of its second century as it did up through the end of its first. Thank you begin fagain for this opportunity to testify and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Simons. Ms. Wilson . Ranking member blumenthal, senator capito, distinguished members of the committee, i am deeply honored to have been nominated by President Trump to serve as a commissioner of the federal trade commission. Thank you for the time that you and your staffs spent with us during the last couple of weeks and for inviting us here today. And thank you also, senator capito, for your words of confidence. I appreciate it. Im joined here today by my husband, ramsey wilson, my daughters, reagan and savannah wilson, my niece, michaela, and my inlaws, kate and tom mayson, as well as a number of very Close Friends. I would echo what joe said, without their love and support, i would not be here today. If confirmed, serving as commissioner will be my third job at the ftc. I first spent time there while i was in law school as a law clerk in the agencys bureau of competition. I returned as chief of staff to chairman tim murrits under president george w. Bush. These roles helped me understand the pride that ftc personnel rightly take in their agency and in their mission. With fewer than 1,200 employees, the ftc routinely tackles issues of daily importance to americans in every walk of life. Deploying its finite resources to maximum advantage, the ftc promotes the interests of consumers by ensuring the effective operation of markets, typically in a bipartisan way. But the agency must be careful to wield its power appropriately. To use a sports analogy coined by then chairman, the ftc must avoid trading its role as referee of our markets for one as a manager of or a star player in those markets. As it enters its second century been, the ftc has much important work ahead of to continue protecting consumers, including preserving competition in health care markets, staying abreast of technological advances and tailoring the ftcs advocacy enforcement efforts accordingly and promoting the sound Economic Analysis of competition and Consumer Protection issues, both domestically and abroad. Each of us if confirmed will bring his or her experiences to the role of commissioner. The most notable experience for me occurred in 1984. Ronald reagan was our president. I was in high school. I took a threeweek trip behind the iron curtain. I saw firsthand the long lines, empty shelves and misery inflicted by an authoritarian government a government in a command and control government. I finished that trip an Ardent Supporter for Market Freedom and liberty. Yes, my oldest daughter is named after president reagan. That trip was the first in a series of events that led me tear today. Other milestones are attributed to key mentors whom i have been blessed. University of florida professor blair who showed me the possibility of a career in this field. Professor steve sallup, an antitrust economist who i worked for as a Research Assistant at georgetown law. The former doj attorney general for antitrust, for whom i worked after graduating from law school, and who is here with us today. And tim murrits, who whom i served as chief of staff. Each of them was instrumental in enhancing my understanding of antitrust and Consumer Protection law and policy, and i am deeply indebted to them. Thank you for considering my nomination. I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you, ms. Wilson. Next up, mr. Phillips. It will be the senates loss and the ftcs gain, but welcome. Please, proceed. Thank you. Chairman thune, Ranking Member blumenthal, members of the committee, i want to thank you for holding this hearing and for the opportunity to testify before you today. This is a critical time for the federal trade commission and your stewardship of that agency is essential. I also want to thank the president for the honor that he has bestowed and the confidence that he has placed in me. Im deeply humbled by that. Id like to thank senator cornyn, its been the honor of my life to spend the last six years working for him. With the committees permission, i will reintroduce my family, and i thank you in advance for your patience with some of them. First, my father, david phillips, is a law professor at Northeastern University in boston. I did not go there but he taught me everything. What is perhaps more important, i was ten years old when my mother died of cancer and my father raised me and my two sisters all by himself. I know that my mother, Deborah Kaplan phillips, is here with us today in spirit. My younger sister judith is here. She and her family live in cambridge, massachusetts, and she works as an attorney at a startup devoted to improving patient care. My older sister, eliza, is not able to be here. These a clinical psychologist and instructor at Harvard Medical School and has three great kids of her own. Im thrilled to have her husband ira, a journalist and author, here with me today. Here are my three children, dalia, jonah and our baby abigail. I could go on about them indefinitely. But for present purposes, i would say dalia is beginning to learn the game monopoly and jonah shares this committees interests in airplanes and trains. Finally, my wife and love sarah is here with me. She is a committed public servant. Recently off a fouryear detail to the white house on the staff of the National Security council. Between her work in government and out, it is no exaggeration to say that sarah is personally responsible for saving tens of thousands of lives. I am in awe as well as love. Happy valentines day. Members of the committee, the ftc is an Important Institution at a critical time for our national economy. Congress has tasked the commission with enforcing Consumer Protection laws and antitrust laws, which in turn help consumers by protecting competition. The free market is the most powerful and effective engine of social progress in human history. But it works better with rules of the road and cops to enforce them. The ftc is one of those cops. Its Mission Statement reads, working to protect consumers by presenting anticompetitive, deceptive and unfair business practices, enhancing informed Consumer Choice and public understanding of the competitive process. And accomplishing this without unduly burdening legitimate business activity. I believe in that mission. By following it, the ftc not only protects consumers, it helps instill confidence in markets, foster innovation and create jobs. And that is no small task. First, the ftc must execute its Authority Vested in it by congress to protect consumers and competition. Second, the ftc must maintain predictability and intellectual rigor. We need sound rules on which consumers and businesses both can rely. Third, the ftc must keep abreast of developments in technology and business. And the agency must do all of this as americans are hearing more about antitrust, seeing High Health Care costs and sharing their data for use in new and different ways. I am here before you because if confirmed i want to help lead the ftc at this critical time. Over my career, i have worked on issues the ftc deals with from different perspectives. As a mergers and acquisitions analyst, as a lawyer litigating antitrust, fraud and other cases and doing merger refuel, and for the bulk of my legal career, here in the United States senate. That last point is key. As the members of this committee know, legislation is hard. It requires understanding complex problems, listening to a broad away of stakeholders, judgement and finding common bipartisan ground. For over six years, i have worked hard and well with democrats and republicans, and if confirmed i will continue that at the ftc. Working here in the senate also has given me a personal appreciation for the constitutions separation of powers, including congress in tagging the national policy. I know what goes into the words you write, and if confirmed, i will take care faithfully to execute them. I thank the members of this committee and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Phillips. Mr. Chopra. Thank you, chairman thune, and Ranking Member blumenthal and themes of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today. Its an honor to be nominated by the president to the federal trade commission, an agency with one of the most respected staffs in the world, and im grateful to my family, friends, teachers and colleagues for their support. Some of whom are here today. This is my fifth time testifying in hearings before members of the United States senate. I believe in the fundamental importance of congressional oversight over federal agencies to ensure that theyre working for the greater good and using Public Resources efficiently. Im committed to being responsive and accountable to this committee and this chamber. The ftc is more than a century old, but many of its traditions should remain timeless. The agency has a longstanding history of commissioners working on a bipartisan basis to protect consumers and competition by fairly enforcing the law. And it has been a privilege for me to get to know noah phillips, Christine Wilson and joe simons. The agency also knows that Law Enforcement proceedings should not be the only tool in the toolbox. Research, consumer and Business Education and cooperation with other agencies can be powerful tools, and im eager to continue these traditions along with my fellow commissioners for the benefit of consumers and businesses alike. At the same time, the ftc faces significant challenges in todays day and age. The massive data breaches at equifax and other companies highlight the serious issues we face with the security and proliferation of consumer data in our economy and society. Consumers, including Senior Citizens and military families, continued to be targeted by scammers and fraudsters. And record high market evaluations. Market growth and the shape of the yield curve suggest to me that sizeable activity will occur in 2018 and perhaps beyond. At the same time, Small Business starts are hovering near a 40year low. All of these trends will require careful attention of the commission. In the private sector, ive seen how both large and Small Enterprises seek to serve consumers while responding to the demands and pressures of a competitive environment for capital, labor and other input markets. In my Previous Service in government, i was proud to lead and contribute to work that benefitted both consumers and honest businesses. Shutting down debt relief scams, securing hundreds of millions of dollars in refunds for borrowers harmed by illegal practices and promoting greater competition in the student loan refinance market. If confirmed, i look forward to working cooperatively with my fellow commissioners, the staff, this committee and the public at large to advance the agencys mission to protect consumers and competition with openness, transparency and humility. Thank you, and i look forward to your questions. Thank you, mr. Chopra. Let start by asking the basic question. Ill ask this of mr. Simons, ms. Wilson, mr. Phillips, mr. Chopra. These nomination hearings give us an opportunity to underscore that point. So the question is, if confirmed will you pledge to work collaboratively with this committee and its members to provide thorough and timely responses to our requests for information . I would be thrilled to, senator. Absolutely, senator thune. Absolutely, senator. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Im going to direct this question to all four nominees, and its kind of a big question, but if you could perhaps summarize your views on this. With the growth and surge of social media in recent years, id like to get a response from each of you regarding the state of competition in the American Technology sector. Some argue that big tech should be subject to more antitrust scrutiny, that the applicable law would seem to require a more nuanced analysis, one that is not based on size alone. So could you just sort of fairly quickly describe your views regarding antitrust concerns with respect to large tech firms such as facebook and google . Mr. Simons, well start with you. Sure, happy to. So at a high level, i believe that big is not necessarily bad. I also believe that big is not necessarily good. Sometimes big is good. Sometimes big is bad. Sometimes its both at the same time. Often Times Companies get big because they are they are successful with the consumer. They offer a good service as low price. Thats a good thing and we dont want to interfere with that. On the other hand, companies that are already big and influential can sometimes use inappropriate means, anticompetitive means to get big or to stay big. If thats the case, then we should be we should be vigorously enforcing the antitrust laws and attacking that conduct and prohibiting it. Thats my overall approach, senator. Thank you, mr. Simons. Ms. Wilson . Thank you, senator. I know there have been questions about whether the antitrust laws as currently crafted are sufficient to address these issues, and i would like to affirm my view today that, in fact, the antitrust laws as written today are broad and flexible and are capable of adapting to evolving technology, so i have no concerns at this time about our ability to address the issues that may arise under the ftcs current jurisdiction. Obviously if we find that there are any gaps, we would come back to you and open a dialogue about that. In terms of whether there are issues, i understand that there have been investigations into companies in the past. There has been a lapse of time and technology has evolved, and so it may make sense to take another look at concerns that have been raised. My door is open. I am interested in hearing concerns or complaints that people may have about various companies and i would, as i sit here today tell you, there is no company that is above the law or beyond the reach of the law. I would support, if confirmed, chairman simons in taking a look at potentially unlawful contact and following the facts where they lead. Thank you. Mr. Phillips . Thank you for the question, senator. In a sense, it is the big question. Like many americans, i experience daily the incredible impact that many of these firms have on my life, i see the impact it has on the lives of others, including even my little children. I think the ftc has a very big role to play here in applying the law fairly and applying it carefully. Very importantly, in continuing to keep abreast of changing trends in the markets. Watching how they develop and seeing how our laws, both Consumer Protection and antitrust, apply to them. I dont know all the answers, but the two commitments that i want to make to this committee are, first, that if confirmed, i will help keep the agency abreast of developments, working with career staff and my colleagues here, and, second, if there are violations of the law, no matter who is committing them, but the ftc will enforce the law. Thank you. Mr. Chopra . Thank you. I want to just offer a few observations. One is that unlike most sectors of the economy, Large Technology firms dont just compete with each other, theyre competing with several other market verticals and sectors of the economy. Theyre competing with health care companies. Theyre competing with retail and so many other major sectors. And this has been a real challenge for equity and debt analysts seeking to predict how industries will evolve, how profitability and Market Dynamics will occur, and i think that it implores us at the commission to make sure that we have the adequate talent, Analytical Capabilities and to engage in constant learning. I agree with mr. Simons that there is a real role to continue to look back at past actions to determine whether models and empirical analysis have been accurate, how they can be evolved, but i think its an area that we need to be humble and continue to learn to effectively understand dynamics in this marketplace. Thank you. Mr. Simons and mr. Chopra, the American Bar Association antitrust law section issued a 60 page report in january of 2017 on the state of entrust enforcement. The antitrust section makes a number of religions recommendations for improving Consumer Protection issues, such as recommending that all Consumer Protection orders should sunset in five years absent extenuating circumstances such as fraud or insidivism. Do you agree with this sunset . If so, will you seek to implement this reform should be you be confirmed . So, first let me say that the antitrust the aba antitrust section does a terrific job. They have a whole host of extremely thoughtful people. Any time they make a recommendation, you want to think about it seriously, so thats what i would commit to do. I dont have a view conclusive view yet. I would want to talk to the staff at the agency before reaching any conclusions on that and, of course, i would like to talk to my fellow commissioners. Senator thune, the report had a number of recommendations, some of which the chair has already sought to implement and that appears to be wellreceived. I would share that with respect to model orders, i think that recommendation about revisiting some of those model orders with respect to consent decrees that are filed in administrative proceedings or in federal court, looking about whether those lengths is appropriate, 20 years that is currently used i know is not common in all federal agencies, so i think its worth always revisiting whether things can be changed or not, but i would really want to consult with the experts and staff at the commission before making any final comments on that. Senator blumenthal . Thank you very much. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your service. In particular, welcome to mr. Phillips as a member of the Senate Family and thanks for your work on the senate Judiciary Committee where i also serve. I assume, by the way, that your requests for patience was for your father, the law professor, not for your children. Senator, ive long sinced learned to ask others for patience with my father. I try not to ask others for what i, myself, sometimes cannot give. And i assume hes not teaching anyone monopoly games . Let me begin by saying that the ftc is entering a new era. It has a storied and wonderful past, but the simple stark fact is that consumers and competition have never been more threatened as the means of delivering products and making them and the products themselves become more complex and important, so do the challenges of protecting competition and consumers from all of the schemes that now can be used on the internet, rather than snail mail and other means of contacting and working the chains of delivery of products to consumers. So i think that the ftc needs to enter this new era with new energy and new tools. Thats why i have introduced, for example, laws that would protect against data breaches. Mr. Simons, you and i have talked about the need for better protection for consumers against data breaches. My hope is that you will and the other commissioners will support the legislation that ive introduced, and i dont know whether youve had a chance to consider further the data breach accountability and enforcement act of 2017. I hope that youve thought more and perhaps you could support it. Do you have another any more opinions on it . Sure, senator. Thank you for the question. One of the things that i am extremely concerned about is the whether the ftc has sufficient authority to deal with data breaches, particularly in terms of being able to create a sufficient deterrence, create an incentive for the companies to take care of the consumer data as they should. And right now we dont have civil penalty authority. And i think thats something that we should we should consider very carefully and take a very close look at. So im very sympathetic to your bill and i look forward very much to working with you on it. Would would the other nominees agree with that view . Yes, i would. Thank you. Yes. Sorry. Yes, if i could add, senator, that data breaches impose great deals of costs also for Small Enterprises. The equifax debate breach hata to significant losses for financial institutions. We need to look at the whole picture, including harms that happen to consumers. There are consumers. There are various areas where the ftc in this new era needs reinvention. And thats one of them. Another seems to me to be drug pricing and drug shortages. Every member of this body i think is in favor of making drug prices more affordable to consumers. The president has talked about it. And yet every other day seemingly there are reports of a drug or a device being marked up by 200 or 300 . I am cosponsor of legislation titled improving access to affordable Prescription Drugs act that directs the department of hhs and oig and the ftc to Work Together to create a task force that would try to reduce the costs of Prescription Drugs. It is only a beginning. There needs to be vigorous and strong enforcement of our antitrust laws against the consolidation that has occurred in that industry, as well as others. And with all due respect, ms. Wilson, in the Airline Industry as well. If we have time for second round, i will be asking you about that industry. But let me focus now on drug pricing. Would you agree, mr. Simons, that we need more vigorous enforcement in this area . Senator, im very concerned, as you just described with drug pricing. I think the Pharma Industry is a critical industry for our economy and for the consumers. It affects people who are in a very vulnerable point in their life often. And so im very im very interested in dealing with that. As we spoke when we met, i would like to explore putting together a drug pricing Monitoring Task force so that we can see in realtime or as close to realtime as possible whats going on with drug pricing, act as quickly as possible, try to identify when high pricing is caused by anticompetitive conduct so we can investigate immediately and engage in Enforcement Actions quickly. If the price spikes are caused by something that maybe is regulatory in nature, alert the fda to that. And if its something else, then potentially maybe legislation could be appropriate and come talk to you about it. Would you consider supporting the measure that i mentioned just now . I would certainly consider it. Do any of the other nominees have views on that topic . Well, ill just add that i think the commission needs to anchor its work to where it can really focus on the pocketbooks of consumers and activity in the economy and given that so many patients are ever increasing share of spend on Prescription Drugs and health care, it must be a top priority to enforce all the applicable laws. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator blumenthal. Senator schatz . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you all for your willingness to serve. Thank you to your families for supporting you in this endeavor. I want to ask you a little bit more about the Credit Bureaus, the credit reporting agencies. They operate basically in the dark. The ftc has some analysis that indicatious have a higher roar rate. Its difficult to determine exactly what the material error rate is. But lets call it in the midlow Single Digits which means that millions of americans are unable to obtain employment or a loan for a car or a house as a result of an error. And a Customer Relationship that is not in their possession. Although the Credit Bureaus call us their customers, their customers are actually the people who are evaluating our credit worthiness. We are not in possession of the data that is being sorted, aggregated and then sold or rented in some instances by these companies. And the ftc has done some good work here. Just as the congress has done some good work here. But these Credit Bureaus operate almost entirely in the dark. And it has real impact. This is not just a consumer issue. This is also a question of the ecosystem itself. Ill preface my question with the following. I do not want to blow up this ecosystem. We do need some way to evaluate the credit worthiness of individuals. We dont want to go back to the days when you had to walk in and present yourself to a banker who evaluated your credit worthiness, sometimes on the basis of a hunch or whether they knew you personally. So i understand the need for these credit reporting agencies to exist. But i think the ftc has to do more. And so my question is do you think the ftc and ill start with mr. Simons and go down the line as quickly as possible. Do you think the ftc has the authority to do more . And are you inclined to explore those possibilities . Well, senator, i certainly share your concerns. And thats something i definitely would want to look into, talk to the staff at the ftc and would be happy to work with you on it. I too share your concerns, senator. As you know, the federal trade commission does have enforcement responsibility for a number of laws in this area, including the fair credit reporting act and the fact act. Right before chairman tim muras arrived under the chairman, at least some of them were found to have violated orders that would allow consumers easily to call in and verify their credit records and then make changes if necessary. I would be very interested in talking with staff to find out whether they think there are areas where Additional Authority would be useful. I would look forward to continuing the dialogue with you, with my colleagues and staff if confirmed. Senator, thank you. As we discussed yesterday, for a lot of americans, its really frustrating to face large corporations that maybe they cant even access the errors of which can result in really bad outcomes for all those people. And it can affect millions of americans. If confirmed, i look forward to getting briefed on what the agency is doing, what it can be doing, and working with you and your staff on that issue. Senator schatz, if i could just say, this is an industry where you cannot vote with your feet. When consumers cant take their business elsewhere, Competitive Dynamics cannot address certain consumer harms. And i think over just in 2017, weve seen a number of serious issueses come to light in this industry. In one case, a court found that a Credit Bureau was falsely mark consumers as terrorists and drug kingp kingpins. And we have to get to these core accuracy issues. And this is something that i think really warrants bipartisan attention about what we can do to make sure the plumbing of our Consumer Financial infrastructure is working better. We need to use the fair credit reporting act and enforce it vigorously, as well as the other laws. And i agree that the commission needs to amp up its work with respect to consumer reporting agencies. Thank you. My final question for mr. Chopra, and i think ive spoken to all of you about this, im very interested in this area of predictive algorithms. Some of it is simple Data Analytics that were available to us decades ago. But some of it is getting morre robust and sophisticated. Im very interested in the space because its not clear who has jurisdiction. Some of it may be doj. Some of it may be hud. Some of it may be the ftc of these predictive algorithms that can essentially serve as a proxy for race or a geographic location, for disability status or income. To the extent some of these predictive algorithms are sold as a product either to a government or a company, but theyre a black box because theyre proprietary, its very difficult to determine whether laws are being violated. Im wondering whether you can all take a look at this. Ill take mr. Chopra in person and the rest of you on the record for this question. Senator, 50 years ago almost we passed the fair credit reporting act to make sure there werent secret databases making decisions about our lives without consumers having access to that data. And increasingly outside of the credit reporting sector, the industry of data brokers and other sectors are using more and more data. The ftc did publish a big data report that highlighted some of those issues. But i look forward to working with you and others so that we can figure out what the industry dynamics and potential issues for consumers are. Thank you. Thank you, senator schatz. Senator udall . Thank you. Thank you very much, chairman thune. Id like to direct a couple of comments and questions to mr. Simons here initially. How will how will you prioritize the significant number of issues that are currently pending before the commission . So, senator, thank you for the question. A First Priority for the commission if im confirmed is going to be making sure we are doing vigorous enforcement both on the Consumer Protection side and on a competition side, and that we do it in a way that gets the biggest bang for the taxpayers dollar. And that would be to focus our attentions mostly where harm is the greatest. So thats how i would prioritize things, senator. Now, given the increased number of issues before the ftc, what are your views on the adequacy of the current ftc budget, and how will you ensure the commission has the resources necessary to protect consumers . Senator, i pledge i will look carefully at the ftc budget if confirm and make sure that wet have what we need to do the job that we need to do. And if we dont, i will come to you and ask for well, i wont come to you, but ill ask for more money. Great. Thank you. As we discussed in our meeting, and it was a very good meeting, im concerned about the ability of federal agencies to protect their networks against cyberintrusions, including the use of bots argued the against Public Comment systems. Can you address the ways you will empower the ftcs cio . One of the things that im going to do if confirmed when i first get to the ftc is to talk to the cio and the folks there who are dealing with these issues. This is a big concern for me. Its an important concern. And i want to address it quickly. I have a long history of working with the federal trade commission on false labeling of Sports Equipment, especially Sports Equipment targeted to young people. The ftc has done some very good work there. Specifically, it sent letters to retailers and manufacturers calling out certain deceptive practices. However, it is important that the ftc continue to monitor for future misleading labeling. Will you commit to me to continue to monitor the marketplace, including both traditional and online retailers and use the Enforcement Authority of the ftc for any marketer or manufacturer repeatedly making false claims . I would be happy to make that commitment. This is an issue that is near and dear to my heart, as we discussed in your office. My son had a serious concussion while playing football in high school. And as i saw the effects of that. And its very, very important to me. Thank you. This next question is addressed to all nominees. Consumers are purchasing more and more items that are connected to the internet, but they may not understand the enormous amount of data that those items may collect. These items can include childrens toys or monitoring devices. Can you talk about the actions that the ftc can take to help educate consumers about Data Collection processes of manufacturers and other companies . What are your ideas on how to promote Consumer Protection in an increasingly online and connected world. Why dont we start with mr. Chopra down there. I think Consumer Education and engagement to increase our understanding about the sheer volume growing at an exponential basis of Data Collected is important. I want to particularly underscore that collection of data of children, service members, and other pockets of our populations probably warrant more specific attention. Of course, the Congress Already has certain protections in place that address childrens privacy, that address privacy of students. And i think we should continue to dig deep to figure out how well increase our understanding and awareness by consumers. Great. Mr. Phillips . Thank you, senator. I largely agree with what my colleagues have said. And i think your focus on Consumer Education cannot be more important. There is a lot that the ftc can do, but outreach to the consumer community, to the business community, to particularly affected groups like the military, the elderly and in particular the parents of kids i think is essential. Also, using members of congress and the abilities that they have to get the word out. I think all of those things are critical. Ms. Wilson, let me interrupt you there because my time is really gone there. I wanted to make a plug, and i bet senator blumenthal, im not committing him now will, join me on this, a plug for the ftc working with state attorneys general. Both of us were attorneys general some time in our career. And it just seems to me that you can amplify consumer efforts by doing that. State attorneys general have their ear to the ground. They hear directly from consumers. And many states have very strong Consumer Protection laws. And the attorneys general are out there doing that. So i think a good working relationship with state attorneys general would help you kind of amplify the work that you do. So with that, im finished, mr. Chairman. Sorry for running over a little bit. Thank you, senator udall. Senator hassan . To all of our nominees, congratulations on your nomination. And to all of the family members of the nominees who are here, thank you for supporting your loved ones in the process. It is family affair. And i am very, very grateful, especially to the children in the audience who are going to be sharing their parents with the american people. And they deserve our thanks for that too. I want to start with the question for you, mr. Chopra. Given your finance background, i want to ask you about student loan scams. Predatory student loan providers remain a serious problem for American Consumers. These companies exploit vulnerable young people by charging outrageously high, often illegal upfront fees in addition to monthly charges. The ftc in several states began a crackdown on this kind of activity last fall, but it is clear that more needs to be done at this federal level to make sure that these kind of Predator Companies cannot operate anywhere and harm consumers in the United States. What more can the ftc do to fight this kind of predatory lending behavior . Senator hassan, this bears an uncanny resemblance to the foreclosure crisis where as mortgages went bad, foreclosure relief firms, which many were fraudulent preyed on so many communities that were hit hard by foreclosures. There is a student loan default in this country once every 28 seconds. Wow. Thats 3,000 a day. Over a million a year. And we discussed this. I know there has been some criticism of the ftc on being late to this, but i really think that the staff has done a terrific job on its Student Debt Relief work, and i think we need to amplify that work and look to work with attorneys general and others to make sure that we are not allowing a repeat of what we saw in the aftermath of the foreclosure crisis. Thank you very much for that answer. This is a question for the panel. And again, we have limited time. So ill start with mr. Simons and work down. In the past, the ftc has looked at video games, issuing a report on the marketing of violent video games to children in 2009 and in 2013. It also studied the Entertainment Software rating board, or esrb, finding it one of the most effective voluntary enforcement boards. Thats why im confident that the esrb will take this issue seriously. So today i am sending a letter to the esrb outlining my concerns with microtransactions which may take the form of loot boxes. Thats what theyre called, and allow ingame purchases for surprise winnings. And in many cases these are being marketed to and used by children who are obviously particularly susceptible to being addicted to them. Last month the World Health Organization recognized gaming disorder as a diagnosable disorder. We should be doing all we can to protect our children and to inform parents about their options when it comes to these types of games. So the question for you, or do you agree that children being addicted to gaming and activities like loot boxes that might make them more susceptible to addiction is a problem that merits our attention . And depending on how the ersb responds to my inquiry, would the esrb be willing to look at loot boxes independently . Ill start you, mr. Simons. Yes. I would agree on both counts. Okay. Ms. Wilson . As the mother two of teenagers i would agree that the extent to which teenagers play video games is certainly of concern. And i would be willing to talk with staff and get more up to speed on this issue should i be confirmed. Thank you very much. Mr. Phillips . Yes, senator. While i am not yet expert on this issue, i have credible reason to believe that i will become or be forced to be an expert on it going forward. And i look forward to working with career staff, my colleagues and you on that issue. Thank you. I have one more question that will take up far more that the 45 seconds have i left. So why dont i decide to submit that in writing. Thank you all very, very much. And i yield back my time, mr. Chair. Thank you, senator hassan. Senator cantwell . Thank you, mr. Chairman. And welcome to all of the panelists here. And congratulations on your nominations. Many of my colleagues already asked about data breach or privacy issues in general. But i wanted to ask you each whether you thought given the equifax issues that weve seen and the five weeks that it took to notify the public that the breach had happened, whether you think that we should have more rigorous mandatory or rigorous guidelines on notification for data breach. Thank you, senator. I think thats something definitely worth looking at. If confirmed, i would want to talk to the ftc staff about it, get their views. Talk to my fellow commissioners. And of course talk to you and other members of the committee. But do you think five weeks is too long . I dont have a good basis to reach a conclusion at this point. One of the things that i understand is an issue is sometimes you want to make sure that you know the breach is about and hopefully you can fix it before you have to announce it. So sometimes it depends on the facts of the case and whether the breach notification is more appropriate sooner or later. But just as a general. But in terms of the notification itself and potential legislation, that is something i would definitely be interested in. Ms. Wilson or any of the other witnesses . Well, i want to be i want to be careful not to prejudice any existing investigation. But i do think that data breach at equifax was a wakeup call about the patchwork of state laws that we have and the appropriateness of how consumers are informed and how they are impacted by it. So im very interested in working with all of you on data breach and Data Security issues, because it is only going to be more frequent. It does not just impact consumers in businesses. It is impacts so many facets of our life, including our National Security. Do you think five weeks is too long . Again, i dont want to prejudice any ongoing investigation. But as a general matter and not speaking about any specific situation, several weeks after a major breach of personal data does not sound like it is fast enough. Mr. Phillips and ms. Wilson . Thank you, senator. Like my colleagues, i understand that the ftc has announced that it is investigating that matter. So i dont want to speak specifically to it lest what i say impact that investigation in any way. But obviously that is a major issue. And i look forward to working with my colleagues, staff at the agency and with you on what is appropriate. Ms. Wilson . I agree that this is a significant issue. I have spoken with my colleagues here at the table today. We recognize that the federal trade commission is going to spend a great deal of time and energy investigating these issues and figuring out how best to serve the american consumer. And so i would join my colleagues in saying i dont want to prejudice an ongoing investigation, but i look forward to talking with staff, receiving briefing based on nonpublic information if confirmed, and then talking with you further about Additional Authority or legislation that may be required. I guess i was hoping i think the facts are wellknown because theyve been in the press. And im pretty sure this committee had a hearing on it. Im pretty sure were familiar with the fact that there was a patch, a software fix available, and yet it wasnt applied within the company. And now 145 million peoples personal data has been impacted. I think the thing we want to understand is what your personal views are on how important it is you think the ftc play an aggressive role here in filling the gap. If youre as ftc members not thinking aggressively about this issue when what role we need to play in monitoring how to protect consumers on privacy, then thats of great concern to me. And im pretty sure it will be of great concern to my constituents. I do have some questions about your current antimanipulation authority as it relates to energy and oil markets, but i see my time is about to expire, mr. Chairman. So ill submit that for the record. Thank you, senator cantwell. Senator capito . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you all of you for your willingness to serve. Im going to piggyback on mr. Blumenthals question on Prescription Drug pricing. Because we see a lot of consolidation in this industry. As an example, there is continued consolidation in the pbm industry where Large Companies dominate the market. Many of these companies also own proprietary pharmacies, retail, and mail order, which compete with our local retail pharmacies, often on an uneven Playing Field. As somebody who represents a state with a lot of seniors, this obviously is very important. So mr. Simons, how do you expect to deal with this, the ftc . I saw you shaking your head. So i agree wholeheartedly with that concern. One of the things i want to do at the commission, which has spelled out in a little more detail in my response to the committees questionnaire is to establish a retrospective program so that we look at selfcritically whether our merger enforcement has been as effective as it should be. And if it hasnt, why hasnt it and see how we can fix it. So as part of that, that look back, i think it might make sense to look at the industry youre describing. And that will help us determine whether what the problem is and how to fix it. Rite. Mr. Philiplips, did you have a comment on that . Yes, senator. Health care is maybe number one in many of their lives financially speaking. The ftc has a proud decadeslong bipartisan track record of working on helping to keep competition going in health care markets, from reviewing mergers of hospitals to policing Prescription Drug prices. If confirmed, i look forward to working and making that issue a priority. Ms. Wilson . I agree with mr. Phillips that the federal trade commission has a long and rich history of ensuring competition in health care markets, including in Prescription Drug markets. This is an area where under chairman muras, the ftc spent a great deal of time and effort. It is an important one for all americans given that the Health Care Costs now account for almost 1 5 of gdp. So i agree with my colleagues. This is an area where i pa anticipate if confirmed spending a great deal of time and effort. Again, our time is short. Ms. Wilson, you and i talked about this one when we were in the office, i think, with mr. Simons too is this telemarketing. The new spoofing that we all see coming across our phones. But also, robocalls and telemarketing has taken on a whole different form than the original do not call registry list that we saw develop successfully. You mentioned several of you mentioned this in your statements about the real need for technology to keep and the commissions technological experts to keep ahead of the next algorithms that are being developed to get around the rules or to reach the consumer. So ms. Wilson, you had a good answer for me in my office. I wonder if you could put it on the record for me as well. Absolutely. Under chairman muras, the commission launched the do not call initiative. If the chairman were here today, he would tell you that was his 15 minutes of fame. Unfortunately, technology has now outpaced that effort, and there are holes that now need to be plugged. We know that robocalls and other calls are essentially a form of harassment. They are unlawful under a variety of different institusta. And i think we need to find both a technological solution and significant enforcement in that area. And i look forward to working with my colleagues and with you if confirmed to make sure we have a solution for that issue. Thank you. I would just make a quick comment, and then ill let you make a comment. Again, going back to seniors, i think this really impacts ability for fraud for them and to be really taken advantage of. Not just emotionally, but financially and every other way. We see it happening all the time. Mr. Chopra, do you have a response . You read my mind a bit. I was just going to share that i think we need to also look at robocalls and telemarketing issues not as an inconvenience, but as a real harm to many people. Many individuals do not have the luxury of screening their calls. They might be waiting for a doctors call or the next job. And i think this is something we need to remember, that it is not simply an annoyance. Thank you. Thank you, senator capito. Senator lee . Thanks to each of you for being willing to serve and for being here to answer our questions. Some of you might be familiar with a proposal known as the smarter act. The smarter act is a piece of legislation that would ensure that the department of justice, antitrust officials, and the federal trade Commission Officials would have to meet the same standard when seeking a preliminary injunction to block a proposed merger. And it would also require the ftc to litigate merger cases in federal court instead of relying on the administrative processes to which they have access. At some points in the past, ive discussed these proposals with individuals who will say i dont necessarily see the need for legislation like that and dont like it because we dont need to it be that way anyway. We already dont do those things and there is no reason to change it. So i guess ive got a couple of questions related to this. Id like to have each of you tell me, number one, whether there is any good reason to have a different standard applicable to the ftc than applies to the department of justice when either entity is trying to block a merger. And number two, whether you would ever authorize the filing of an administrative complaint without seeking an influnjunctin federal court. Ill start with mr. Chopra. I agree that similar standards, there should not Market Participants shouldnt have to navigate multiple standards whenever possible. I want to explore this more with you and others. One question i would have is with respect to speed of the overall proceeding. Administrative proceedings can sometimes be faster and cheaper for parties. So that would be something i would look into. As a general matter, though, i take your point that these issues may best suited for federal court. Mr. Phillips . Thank you, senator. Its been great to work with your staff over the past six years. My answer to the first question is i cant think of any reason whatsoever. The law should not operate as an arbitrage between which federal agency you would appear in front of. And companies should not have to consider that question when deciding whether and how to pursue mergers and acquisitions activity. As i said to you when we met, personally, i need to learn a little bit more about the operation of part three. And if confirmed, i look forward to working with my colleagues with career staff, and with you on that question. Thank you. Ms. Wilson . Thank you, senator lee. I think this is a very important issue. I think its a matter of Good Government that businesses have clarity and predictability when they approach the government, particularly when you have concurrent jurisdiction as between the ftc and doj. And so i do not believe there is a good reason for differentiated standards. There are people who will tell you that the standards essentially come out the same way. But i think conveying to businesses that there is the same standard has a great deal of value. In terms of where complaints are brought, i would think as a general rule for unconsummated mergers, obviously there may be extenuating circumstances that should be considered. And i would want to talk with staff about that. But as a general rule, seeking a pi in federal court would be the right way to go for unconsummated mergers. Okay. Mr. Simons . Thank you, senator. I dont see any reason why there should be different zampltds i am one of the people who agree as a matter of practice that the same standard is applied. But i see no reason why it shouldnt be cleaned up and made very clear. In terms of where the ftc files its merger challenges, i think generally it should be in the federal court there should be one bite at the apple. The litigation should occur in the federal court. And if an agency loses there, they shouldnt then be going to administrative trial. Excellent. I appreciate that answer very much. And that is very helpful. In any case, whether were talking about antitrust law or otherwise, but particularly relevant here, since were talking not about a hypothetical but about real world situations, someones fate as a litigant ought not be determined by the toss of a coin. The type of random decision that might dictate that a proposed merger be reviewed by this agency or the other. So when we have differing substantive standards apply to one versus the other, and when one is required to go before a federal court and another has another option, to me that makes no sense. No one has ever explained to me an adequate reason why there ought to be two completely different systems. I understand the efficiency argument. That one has been made in the past. But the fact that something might be more efficient for the government ought not change someones access to due process, which is what our system is all about. I see my time has expired and the chairman is giving me that look. But i thank each of you for your thoughtful answer. I never give the senator from utah that look. But thank you, senator lee. Senator wicker is up next. I have to depart for a meeting on infrastructure. But i will say to our nominees that we hope to move very quickly your nominations to the floor. And its important that we get those important seats on the commission filled. So thank you for your willing to serve. And to your families who are here today too, their willingness to serve and sacrifice as well. Because we all me how all these are very much positions are very much family efforts. So thank you. Senator wicker . Thank you. Well now move to an eightminute rule [ laughter ] and you enjoy yourself at that other meeting. Let me drill down on a specific issue and then ill back up and ask a more general one. To all of you, thank you for meeting with me in my office. And i got a really good feeling that were going to be able to Work Together in a bipartisan manner. But let me ask about the contact lens rule. I guess ill just start with you, mr. Simons. Where are we on that . As i understand it, the optometrists have always followed a rule that you write the prescription and of course theyre willing to fill it themselves. But also they write out the prescription, always give it to the patient or consumer, and its up to the consumer to decide where to get that prescription filled. Now there is a new rule which some of our providers think is a solution in search of a problem that the patient must now sign that they got the prescription and putting the provider in a position of being a Record Keeper for several years. So where are we on that rule . And without asking any of you to say how you would rule on that, what is your general feeling about taking into consideration the fact that we already have a rule thats working pretty well and that this would give an administrative put an Administrative Burden on people who are just trying to provide eye services. So ill start with you, mr. Simons. Thank you, senator. So the rule revision is under consideration under active consideration at the commission. I believe the commission has schedule i think in march another session to collect more information that will help it in its decisionmaking process. So i dont want to prejudge the result of that. But i have to say that if it aint broke, dont fix it, if it turns out those are the facts. Anyone else want to comment . I know we did talk about this. Ms. Wilson . I would agree with mr. Simons, senator. Okay. Anybody else want to add . If i can just add that i think we need to be very attentive to imposing requirements and burdens on our smallest entities, especially if they dont have the economies of scale. So as we discussed, senator, i will probe on some of the assumptions around this and hope to make sure we get a good solution here. Okay. Now ms. Wilson, you mentioned, and i was tickled to hear it, that we want to protect consumers, including preserving competition in health care markets. Well, if we could make some progresses in this committee or in this senate or in this congress on that issue, we would be doing a lot to help the american public. Let me ask in particular. I hear concerns about the pbm transparency pharmacy benefit managers. And i know the public doesnt understand it, but it is a source of huge frustration to many given the continued consolidation and growing negotiation leverage that pbms have. What role should transparency play to enhance competition and Consumer Protection . So i think to go back to what senator capito said about me, i am a Firm Believer in free markets and robust competition. You need to have a full transparent information in order to achieve efficiently functioning markets. And so without speaking particularly with respect to pbms, more information makes the market function more efficiently. With respect to pbm consolidation, i would conquer with mr. Simons that if confirmed, it will be important to do merger retrospectives to determine whether we have achieved the right balance in terms of permitting mergers that would allow innovation in economies of scale while at the same time blocking mergers or requiring remedies where they might otherwise cause harm to competition. In a larger sense, there is just a lot of frustration with the pharmacists that have to comply with these rules, often having to do things retroactively to rectify problems that they didnt know about. My time is up. Let me just say im glad to see at least three of you and possibly all of you talk about bipartisanship and the great tradition we have in this commission of not lining up 32 on so many issues as weve seen elsewhere. So let me let me say that i heartily endorse that kind of sentiment coming from a Bipartisan Panel today. And i hope that tradition can continue to provide examples for future boards and future candidates to talk about in a positive manner in the future. So thank you very much and thank you, madam chairwoman. Thank you. There has been a request for a break of five minutes, which weve agreed to. So were going to break for five minutes. And i would encourage everybody. Im pretty strict on time. So its 11 07. Were going to start back at 11 12 promptly. Please. Thank you. Call the chair. Thank you all for that. I will report it is 11 13. Pretty good for senate time. Id like to now call on senator markey. Thank you. You were just as good as sister superior at the immaculate grammar school. You got that break in perfectly. Net neutrality. In december, federal trade Commission Commissioner mcsweeney wrote, quote, scrapping the fccs Net Neutrality rules will harm consumers and content creators and the federal trade commission isnt going to be able to stop it. The federal trade commission does not have specialized expertise in telecommunications. We dont have engineers with Technical Expertise in data Network Management practices. These are very real and significant limits to the effectiveness of the federal trade commissions tools in ensuring that networks are open and free of harmful discrimination. Mr. Chopra, do you agree with commissioner mcsweeney . I share a lot of the skepticism and concerns. I would also add that given ongoing litigation and rulings in the ninth circuit, the ftc may place an unlevel Playing Field where some major Market Participants are exempt from the commissions authority while others are subject to it. Mr. Simons, do you agree with mr. Mcsweeney . Thank you, senator. My view is that the ftc if it gets back its authority in the internet space is going to be a vigorous enforcer. Were going to take our the Statutory Authority that we have and use it as best we can. I dont know exactly what types of anticompetitive or deceptive and unfair practices may come up. If those come up, we can reach them under our statute. If something comes up that we cant reach under our statute, then i would certainly come to you and the committee and talk to you about the legislative effects. Well, the federal trade commission lacks Rule Making Authority and the federal Communications Commission does have Rule Making Authority to prevent blocking, throttling and paid prioritization by isps. You do agree with that . We both have rule making. Theyre different types of rule making. But in terms of being able to deal with those issues of throttling, paid prioritization and blocking, you do not have that authority . Id walk to talk to the general counsels office before i gave a specific answer to that. Im not im not entirely clear. Well, because and in terms of senator, in terms of just let me move on. I want to reach a second subject. Sure. I will say it does lack the authority. On kids privacy, there is a growing body of evidence from Child Development experts as well as former industry expensives that technologies are being purposefully made to be addictive and here is the goal of all these companies. Its like the tobacco industry. Youve got to get them early. Because then they might be your lifetime customers. So you got to get them at 11, at 12, at 13, at 14. Get them hooked. Make it addictive. And then youve got them for the rest of their lives. Under the commissions child Online Privacy protection act mandate, which i am the author of in 1999, what will you do to ensure the child directed applications and the parent consent processes are fashioned in ways that really protect privacy and ensure that parents can make informed decisions about their kids . And that includes investigations into data practices enabling profiling and targeting across devices, applications and services. Mr. Chopra . I agree that those laws first need to be vigorously enforced. And second, weve seen the market develop so quickly in ways that parents and our whole society have not, could not see coming in the amount of data being collected over children continues to increase. I think we need to be very vigilant and come back to you, especially if we feel we dont have adequate authorities to address this. Will you each commit to an active pro child Privacy Protection policy at the federal trade commission during your tenure, if you are confirmed . Mr. Simons. Yes, absolutely. Ms. Wilson . Senator, i thank you for your leadership on capa. And i agree. Great. Mr. Phillips . If confirmed, absolutely. If firmed. Thank you. I just think thats going to be the cutting edge set of issues. Its time for these industries to come under scrutiny to be made accountable for what they are doing. I mean the Public Health implications of this now epidemic of addiction amongst young people, especially in the Minority Community are much higher, interestingly, than in other communities is something that we have to pay much closer attention to. Thank you, madam chair. Senator klobuchar . Thank you. And i want to thank senator cortez masto for allowing me to go before her. We had very good meetings. Thank you all of you. And i appreciate as well your bipartisan work. That means a lot. Given how important these issues are. And i have three issues and you can maybe pick who answers them. The first is on the pay for delay issue. And i see former chair leibovitz out there somewhere, something he had worked on at length. We have had some court cases that changed this. But as you know, pharmaceutical prices have continued to increase. Senator grassley and i have a bill that basically says that you cant make these deals to keep generics off the market. And i just would like to get someones thoughts on that and the importance, the role the ftc plays. Mr. Phillips . Senator, thank you for your question. As a Judiciary Committee staffer, im well aware of yours and senator grassleys interest in the issue. The president called a few weeks ago for a focus on the cost of Prescription Drugs. That is an issue that hits all americans, myself included in the pocketbook every day. Maybe every other day if were a little healthier than i probably am right now. The ftc has a long bipartisan tradition of policing anticompetitive conduct in prescription markets. And if confirmed, i look forward to working with my fellow commissioners, career staff, with you on continuing that. Okay. Thank you. Second question. The cyberattack against equifax exposed the personal information of more than 145 million americans, essentially anyone that has a credit history. And i recently sent a letter urging the ftc to broaden its investigation of the equifax data breach in response to reports indicating that the director of the office of management and budget had directed Consumer Financial Protection Bureau investigators to pull back from their investigation. Mr. Simons, what is the ftcs role in conducting this investigation . And are you committed to advancing it . So, senator, i dont want to prejudge any existing matter except to say that on any major issue certainly any major issue involving data breaches, i would expect the commission to be all over it, providing and using the necessary resources and just being very vigorous. Okay. Thank you. Then my third and final area is antitrust. I am the ranking along with senator lee chairs the antitrust subcommittee in judiciary. Last fall i introduced the merger enforcement improvement act as well as the consolidation, prevention and competition promotion act to enhance the ability of antitrust agencies to conduct enforcement in the current wave of consolidation. And ensuring that the agencies have the financial and Legal Resources to protect competition i believe is more important than ever as these deals become more sophisticated as you see this kind of takeover of certain areas, especially what youre seeing right now in the bills as you know one is focused on getting more resources by having a fee on some of the mega mergers, something that is i hope not that controversial so taxpayers arent footing the bill here for these complex reviews from the ftc as well as antitrust and justice. And then the second one is more focused on acknowledging the changes weve seen and looking at monopolies and other things. So mr. Chopra, in the current economic climate, should merger enforcement be a priority for the ftc in the near to medium future . And why . And what can we do to bolster merger enforcement . Of course as i shared earlier, we face issues with barriers to entry in so Many Industries with Small Business starts at a low. One of the observations i have about the commission and Government Agencies in general is that they are not its not so easy to adapt its personnel and workforce to changing market conditions. The Interest Rate environment and what the markets tell us is that these deals will be robust. Theyll be big. And whether the commission has adequate resources and flexibility to vigorously police in a timely fashion, i think thats an open question for me. And i would like to work further on that with you. Okay, thank you. And ms. Wilson, i promise to send you a question on the record. Because im going to give it over to Catherine Cortez masto because she was so fine. Thank you. Senator cortez masto . Thank you. Youre welcome. Very much. Pleasure to meet some of you and talk with you. And i know ive got some future meetings. Welcome to all the family members. All of you have been patient, though fidgeting a little i can see compared to the young kids over there. But its welcome. Welcome and were almost done. So let me start with a couple of questions just for all of you, if you dont mind answering just in a short answer. Can i get your commitment to be an active Consumer Protection agency, including on marketing practices and Data Security and privacy . Mr. Simons, ill start you. Thats an easy yes, senator. Absolutely yes, senator. Absolutely, senator. Yes, and i would add the Commission Also needs to be a key partner with attorneys general and others on this. Good. That was another followup question i had for you. Thank you. What do you envision is the most contentious and difficult set of Consumer Protections coming before you if you are confirmed . Mr. Simons, ill start with you. I think its how we handle the data breaches. Theyre becoming much more significant, much more frequent, and i think thats a real, real, real serious concern for us and that we need to pay close attention to it. Thank you. I would agree with mr. Simons. When i was at the commission in the early 2000s with chairman murez, we spent a great deal of time working on data, security and Consumer Privacy issues. And i foresee the same, frankly, in the coming years if confirmed. Thank you. I agree with my colleagues, senator. I would add, though, we cant allow contentious issues to distract us from the bread and butter of the agency on the Consumer Protection side looking out for children, veterans, the elderly, and americans generally. Thank you. I would agree on the issues related to big data. I would also add that it implicates the Consumer Protection mission as well as the competition and privacy missions. And it needs to be very high on the list, if not the highest. And the data breach at equifax also underscores how the fair credit reporting act and oversight of the credit reporting agencies needs to be paramount. Thank you. And then lets talk about interaction with states. How do you envision your interaction with the states and the attorneys general on matters that you have similar when it comes to unfair and deceptive trade practices and competition. Ill start with mr. Simons. Very close working relationship. I think theyre critical to us using our assets most efficiently and them using their assets most efficiently. So very much in favor of a very close working relationship. Thank you. Senator, i not surprisingly agree with mr. Simons. It is very important to have the close relationship with the state attorneys general who can be in many instances more familiar with the facts and nuances on the ground. Senator, i agree with all of that. As you know well, state attorneys general can be a force multiplier for the ftc. They also are closer to the ground and may understand issues and how theyre impacting consumers better than we do. We need to continue those relationships. I would only theyd we also need to work collaboratively with other parts of the federal government because there are some areas where we may not have expertise, but those other parts do. Senator, as you know, ive worked very frequently with the attorneys general on Enforcement Matters over the years. And i would also like to see us go beyond the attorneys general but other state officials who have unique expertise and authorities because that can be a different leverage point to make sure that taxpayer resources are being used effectively. Okay. And then how do you see the ftc continuing to work with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to take action against companies that intentionally mislead auto buyers, students, and elderly homeowners . Senator, ill start. Ill ask all of you. The cfpb and ftc have an existing memorandum of understanding to coordinate Enforcement Matters as well as other tools in its tool box. I think its going to be especially critical to coordinate with the cfpb on those specific special population issues as well as areas where there is coextensive jurisdiction including the fair credit reporting act, among other things. And let me just ask mr. Simons the same question. Yeah, i agree with mr. Chopra. And then this is great. To the extent that ive seen this communication, bipartisan, everybody working together, but let me ask you, mr. Simons, if you are the chair, how do you incorporate Board Members in everyday Decision Making and enforcement and moving forward . Yes. As far as im concerned, i would foresee this being team ftc. We are very fortunate that the all the nominees have significant expertise, and some of it is very complimentary. And i would definitely make use of that. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Senator cruz . Thank you very much. Congratulations to all four of the nominees. I spent two years at the ftc in the early 2000s, and it is a wonderful institution with tremendously talented career professionals and with a terrific and long standing tradition of really effective bipartisan cooperation enforcing the antitrust laws, defending competition, and protecting consumers. So i want to commend each of you for your willingness to serve. Ill note a number of you, we go back a long way. Mr. Phillips, weve worked together the last five years with you doing very good work with senator cornyn. Its been a pleasure working with you. Im sorry to see you leave us, but youre going on to do good things. And mr. Simons, ms. Wilson, we were all together with tim muras at the ftc. And it was a wonderful team. It was a pleasure working with the both of you each and every day for those two years. You both did i think an extraordinary job during your tenure there. And i think we were blessed to serve under chairman tim muras, who was quite frankly extraordinary. I dont think there has been another chairman before or since that had the scope and breadth and vision that tim brought to that job every day. So a question i wanted to ask, especially the both of you, because you worked with tim every thanks thank you senator let me just say i look very fondly on those days and the best job that i had and for all the reasons you describe. One of the things i learned from german mirrors was chairman mraz is its important to have priorities and communicate them well. To know what types of matters will turn into the Enforcement Actions and the staff is busy doing very productive things and has very high morale. That is absolutely critical in terms of leading the ftc and that is my intent. Thank you senator. It was a pleasure to work with you and get to know you. I have watched your career since then with great interest and support. In terms of the things i learned from the chairman, it is very important to have a positive agenda. If you go in without a positive agenda you are reacting to the forces and youre losing an opportunity to shape policy and to make important process in the mission of the agents. I would note, the chairman was very good at listing all of the commissioners to advance his positive agenda. It is important, again in a selfinterested way, to capitalize on the unique experiences and the expertise we bring to the table. In the words of mr. Phillips, that would be a multiply for him and the agency. I would note that the chairman was excellent at advancing competition advocacy. He was ensuring that the ftc was a voice for free markets and for minimal regulation to the extent feasible. But consumers at both the federal and state level, i think that he played a very Important Role in some of those initiatives. I think the acting chairman has been very important in terms of economic liberties to understand the hindrance that licensing requirements can impose and taking that competition advocacy into the global arena. Tim was there when he wants the International Competition network. Having the ftc and the department of justice together in a leadership role, speaking to the international arena, supporting the sound enforcement of competition is critical for American Consumers and for american companies. Mr. Simons, what are your views on competition advocacy and the robust role the ftc has had in that capacity . I do think i could do better justice to then what ms. Wilson said. It is absolutely critical. It has tremendous affects historically and i would expect that to continue. Let me ask one final question, a number of members of this committee are concerned about the scope and control of big tech. The size and power of it, it is and president unprecedented. Facebook and google together are worth 1. 3 trillion. You could words them worlds top five advertising agencies, the five major media companies, and add the five major communications companies, and you only get to 90 of what google and facebook are worth. The scope of market power, size and control of Public Discourse is unprecedented. How should the commission approach this development which i find unprecedented . So i think the commission needs to approach this. It reminds me about the old joke about when people asked jesse james why he robbed banks because its where the money is, right . With respect to antitrust, the culinary is the place most likely to have antitrust problems are places that market power, right . Those are the places you want to look the most you want to monitor them carefully and Pay Attention to them. If something is a mess, you get a big bang for the taxpayers by enforcement in those areas. Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation here. I appreciate all of you. Im a member of the Appropriations Committee that is responsible for the funding of the ftc. As you are aware, the ftc was allocated 213 million for fiscal 17 and the white house reeled it revealed its white house its budget. As congress attempts to appropriate the necessary resources, what would you remind me to be prioritizing from your view . So, one of the things obviously, if confirmed i would do, is to handle on the budget and what the resource allocation looks like. Also, reach out to the staff and make sure i understand where the commission money is being spent and how well its being spent. So, in terms of the budgetary issues, i dont know enough at this point to tell you that we need more or we could do okay with less. But, my feeling at this point is keep the ship study. I want to make sure not stepping on toes. The subcommittee and that funds this is secured by senator kevin oh kevin oh cavanaugh. We have some edit a letter to acting chairwoman old house seeking an investigation into fraudulent practices. Health plans increase they are users while selling false interactions. I am asking for consent to submit that letter. Section 5 of the ftc act provides the agency Enforcement Authority to take action against deceptive marketing practices. I feel that this practice needs to be investigated. What are some of the consumer harms to allow social media thoughts libby sold two companies, what kind of market distortions would you expect . What is your take on a young girl finding her identity being used in a damaging way . Social marketing is often more effective with more trust to the extent to which these practices are undermining trust and how consumers are rick commuting back and forth with firms. We need to be concerned about this. Deception has some specific legal criteria, i look forward to reviewing the letter more closely and see how we can address that. Will make sure that the letters provided to all of you. Anyone else . I raise the topic i reach with you in my office and a ask you again about the issue of legislation that was unanimously adopted, designed to give our constituents to quality tickets at face value. It will require enforcement and it will require someone being made an example of. I wonder if any of you have reviewed the current actions of the ftc, do you have any suggestions . I would say senator, we are not would be to any nonpublic information but we will agree on in vigorously enforcing the law following the facts where they lead, taking sure that violators are held up as an example. Part of the opportunity i have is to highlight this senators emphasis or priorities and so while you may not be able to answer in detail, the questions ive asked you today, i hope you take them as something that one member of this committee thinks is valuable. I thank you for your willingness to pursue public service. I look forward to your confirmation. Senator baldwin. Thank you madam chair. Thank you all for your time this afternoon. Congratulations on your nominations. I know that you have been asked the nature of these questions. You have answered questions relating to the equifax reach as well as the priority that i to be placed on data breaches in your work. I will not reask those questions but i want to use my prerogative to tell you that is also a high priority of mine. I was pleased to hear all you agree that this should be a high priority of the ftc. I want to begin by asking you about travel rating websites. A number of my constituents and many other americans have fallen prey to a painted alcohol problem in mexico. This has resulted in blackouts, reported robberies, sexual assaults, and debts. Over 140 two date that have wall where over 142 date that have been identified by excellent journalism. Next i authorities have failed to address those issues and the Current State Department protocol for warning american travelers of these dangers is not working. The alternative, many victims have turned to travel rating websites like trip advisor to report their experiences and to warn others who might be traveling through those areas. Unfortunately, it has been reported that trip advisor has censored or taken down posts that detail these adverse experiences at these types of mexican resorts. These actions are particularly concerning because trip advisor raises revenue through advertising and hotel transactions. They may have an incentive to maximize positive reviews and minimize negative reports. In november, i wrote to the federal trade commission urging the agency to review these practices. I would like to ask each of you will you commit to looking into this issue and the impact of the conduct of these types of websites on consumers if you are confirmed . Why dont i start with you mr. Simon. I would be happy to you, senator. I would be happy to look into that senator. Yes senator, it is scary enough to deal with those issues in any country. I cant imagine how your constituents must of felt in a foreign country dealing with us. Yes, if i can add, there are many issues we have seen over the past decade where there is a clear mismatch in incentives between consumers and intermediary, was at first and in the mortgage crisis and another. Its. Crisis and the answer is yes. In my remaining minute, i know that you have already been asked specifically about the Student Debt Relief scams by senator handsome. I wanted to add given your professional history, advocating for student borrowers, can you talk a little bit more about the coordination and how important it is for the ftc to coordinate. For example the department of education and other agencies to respond and pursue this reprehensible act. There is no question that the ftc, cfpb and the Education Department have to tackle this together along with state attorney generals. I would add when deploying these resources, we need not to just look at the symptoms but the cause. And the cause of the proliferation of the scams is often do to subpar student loan servicing. Borrowers are not given accurate information, they are deceived along the way and we have to correct those fundamental problems otherwise we will continue to see the scams go on and on. Thank you, i want to thank all of you being here today. I appreciated. We talked a little about this when you were in my office yesterday. I want to get all 4 of your opinions on it. Its about concentration. I know you guys dont deal with all of it. I think justice deals with the commodities portion. But you do deal with fertilizer the way i understand it. And, just for your reference, 80 of the beef in this country is controlled by four companies. That is not very capitalistic my book. It makes me want to dig Teddy Roosevelt up and bring back to life. Nonetheless, i want to know from each one of you, do you think its a problem, if you do think its a problem that can be done about it . Is it toothpaste out of the tube and we are just hose . I will start with you, john . Joe, sorry. You can call me joe. Go ahead and shoot. One of the things we talked about early on in the hearing today is doing a Merger Retrospective Program to see if weve been to luxor enforcement. One area we would focus on would be agriculture area. So, in terms of this. If you find out you are too lax, does it have some impacts . Yes. Any mergers that would come, it would come ahead in the future would be subject to, not subject to, but our analysis would inform us. Any mergers that is done, is a done deal . The other thing is not only could these situations be a result of a consolidation, it could be the result of any competitive unilateral practices. We can look at those also. If there were such cases, instances of that, we would hopefully get an injunction prohibiting those anticompetitive practices and that would make the market more competitive moving forward. Briefly, do they see the same way . Yes i do, senator. Yes senator. I would add that the ability for people to sustain a livelihood in agriculture making sure the barriers to entry are not illegal is critical. I would tell you and we talked about this earlier, 40 kids in my graduating class in my school, its been a long time ago. Now the whole school has 40 kids in it and we seen that the population across rural america. I want to ask you about another issue. I hope youre able to do that because i think when it comes to competition in the marketplace, whether it is selling it or the emphasis youre putting on the crop, it is critically important. It will do away with family farm agriculture, i tell you what if family farm agriculture is away the country changes and not for the better. I was sitting in a Homeland Security meeting, it wasnt classified and my phone rang. It was a 202 number, i better take it and it was a telemarketer. Okay . I guess i shouldve taken it but it couldve been something important and i wasnt. It was a nuisance. I think we have far too many of these and we have failed in this regard. How can we fix this garbage . I have to tell you, i dont asked them to call me, the call me. If i want to buy hotel room i will call them. How do we stop this . I think the do not cool. A call rule was good at first but is been overtaken by Technological Developments and it doesnt work anymore. I think the answer is a technological solution and i know that the ftc and the fcc are having conversations and working to explore that type of solution. Anybody else . Have great ideas. There are Software Solutions that are effective to certain degree. I havent tried the myself. Anybody else want to comment on the do not call stuff . I will comment. There is no question that this has to be priority for us. Right behind the a competition. Is a priority but im worried about the resources and tools to solve it. And i think if we need more we need to come to you and ask for it. Amen, brother. You guys have a job to. If you. The tools to do it we can hold you accountable. Please do. Thank you very much. Thank you all very much. I think that completes our first round and we will go to a brief second round. I have one additional question and senator blumenthal at several had several questions. Finds more than education for me as in terms of what ftcs role would be. We talked about the addictive quality of gaming on the young mind. My region of the country has had enormous issues with opioid addiction and the crisis that we see that is cascading across the country. My question, im throwing this out there, does the ftc have a role in seeing that addiction, which is considered a health issue, does addiction play into the decisions that the commission could or would make around certain products . How do you see that . I dont know the answer, im just asking. Thank you senator. This goes back a long way to dealing with the cigarette tobacco issues. Basically, you are talking about a population that is putting put in a very wonderful situation where they are misled about the product they are buying and using and then you have this addiction that attaches before they understand what is happening. That is a serious issue and something that sounds like it is unfair. I would just add that addiction can lead to the conditions for various scams and frauds, with respect to opioids, you may know issues related to body brokering were certain individuals received kickbacks or payments to referrer addicts to specific rehabilitation facilities. There are issues with the adequacy of rehabilitation of these facilities and representations they make to consumers. This implicates a number of our authorities but to be responsive, i dont believe addiction appears anywhere in the statutes that the commission enforces. But if im confirmed, it is something that i know will need well need to tackle. I agree with my colleague. The only thing i would add is addiction creates fertile grounds for folks to Proffer Solutions to consumers that arent really solutions. That is long been a concern for the ftc. Confirmed, i will continue that tradition of working with my colleagues and staff to focus on this. I appreciate that. Where we are going with funding for treatment and recovery programs, the issues run the Opioid Crisis. As we know, when you let a lot of money into a program, it becomes more fertile grounds for the types of things youre talking about. Inc. You very much. Senator woman tall. Thank you for the last question. It raises a profoundly important topic. You may or may not know, but as state attorney general, i sued one of the major opioid manufacturers in the country. It happens to be a Connecticut Company because of misleading or deceptive advertising. We led the federal government in that effort. Eventually we were joined by the department of justice and the state attorney generals enjoined my action and there is still ongoing in my view, misleading and dispositive deceptive advertising surrounding powerful painkillers that could lead to opiate addictions and death. It also can lead to lasting damage to careers, lives and families. I will come your receptiveness and i hope to work with you on Ongoing Solutions to this problem. I want to come back to the breadandbutter of the ftc, the ninth circuits decision in ftc versus at t mobility has followed you as all of you know by virtue of your legal training, this decision enables companies to escape ftc authority and frustration by purchasing a minor Side Business that creates a major gap in your jurisdiction, you being the ftc jurisdiction, providing a common Carrier Service even if it engages in all kinds of unfair and deceptive practices with a regarding the rest of it. In effect, it means that verizon by virtue of its purchasing yahoo, verizon being a common carrier, you hold being a provider can simply escape enforcement of privacy and all kinds of other policies. I would like your commitment that you will continue to appeal the ninth circuit really misguided decision. I lead and and amicus brief. I hope you will pursue an appeal vigorously. Thank you senator. I fully expect that the ninth circuit will reverse the lower court. Im very hopeful about that. Let me just say more generally, i think it would be great idea if we got rid of the common carrier exception from the ftc act entirely. That was my next question. I hope my all of my future commissioners will agree on that point and the appeal of the ninth circuit. Im assuming by your nodding that you agree. I would also add that bipartisan commissions over many years as well as the ada antitrust section and others have advocated for repeal of the common carrier exception. That seems like a good whale way to ensure its a level Playing Field. Speaking up bipartisan, mr. Simon, there is a potential future chair, would you agree that the commission should consist of 5 commissioners, not just 4 and that it should be bipartisan . Do you agree . Yes i agree, senator. Mobile cramming, as you know, the unscrupulous practice of wireless carriers allowing thirdparty charges onto monthly bills without authorization by consumers and in many cases without consumers receiving anything in return for those charges, the ftc has brought numerous Enforcement Actions. The ftc has done this. I would hope that you all will continue that vigorous enforcement, again by the nodding i will assume i sent an agreement. I do want to ask a question about airlines. I understand its not within your jurisdiction, but, i am in bolden test this question by the reference to Teddy Roosevelt. You are not only legal enforcers, you also have a platform and a bully pulpit. I hope that you will be consumer advocates when it comes to this industry as well. A number of years ago asked the department of justice to investigate potential collusion on the airlines in pricing, the department of justice announced it would do so. We have yet to hear what the result, if any, will be. I think i am not overstating the sense of frustration among many consumers by saying they really feel they need a bill of rights. It needs to be stronger than the legal rights they have now. Partly, it is a result of consolidation and mergers within the industry. I proposed many, if not all of them, and i would like your commitment that you will take a vigorous and proconsumer attitude towards airline practices even though it is not in your jurisdiction. Mr. Simon . Senator, im a little reluctant to do that out of courtesy to the people of the antitrust division. Im reluctant to do it tickly now because i would like to have very good relationships with them. I really dont want to start off on a bad foot. There jurisdiction is over mergers and antitrust policy. Those mergers have already occurred unfortunately. This occurred over objections over consumer advocates who foresaw the consolidations, now it is 85 of the capacity is concentrated in 4 airlines, and by the ways, this is not personal i hope you understand. I have Great Respect for delta, and many employees and this is an industry issue. I am raising the consumer issues because they are within your purview. For the consumer issues without our preview, then it is appropriate for us to speak about it. Senator, my understanding is that the Transportation Department enforces laws with respect to unfair myths and deceptive practices in their trouble. I do think there is a role for researchers at the ftc especially when doing cross industry conferences conspires since comparisons and analysis. Looking at those tools and those models, i think and informs a lot of what both agencies do and communicating those results can be very helpful to policymakers while still respecting the jurisdiction of our other agencies. Thank you. Just one more thing dad, you spoken to a number of times to our commitment to other federal agencies. Currently, that works both ways. If confirmed, i plan to make us a resource to those agencies in areas where we have jurisdiction and expertise. I appreciate that comment. I appreciate your comment as well as your longstanding professional involvement in consumer advocacy. It is been very impressive. But going beyond, me finish on this point, the ftc being a resource, i would also like you to be a champion. I think there is a real opportunity here for this new populism that we see sweeping the country to be articulated. If it is not enforced through your advocacy going beyond your narrow legal jurisdiction, i understand it may not be within that legal jurisdiction. But, you have the bully pulpit, you can bring appeal and a passion to consumer issues that no one else will do. And, i will close with that hope and i will look forward to working with all of you. Thank you. I understand that there is a statement from the congressional antitrust caucus that they wish to include so i will ask that to be included. Thank you. The hearing record will remain open until tuesday, february 20. During this time, senators are asked to submit any questions to the record. Upon receipt the witnesses are requested to submit the written answers to the committee as soon as possible but no later than monday, february 26. With that, i would like to thank the hearing, the witnesses were not just your dedication to public service, youre very open and your very honest answers. I think we all have a great deal of confidence that is been expressed with you and in terms of the committee. Without i would say this hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Im sorry to go on. Thank you. A job. Good to see you. [ silence ] the secretary is live it 8 am eastern here on cspan3. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas sits down with the Library Congress will for a conversation. The live coverage of the savanna book festival starts saturday morning at nine eastern. Preparing for the new global battlefield. Author Scott Shapiro with the international list. And Celeste Hadley with her book we need to talk, how to have conversations that matter. Wisconsin Governor Scott walker delivers his eighth state of the state address before the joint session of the Wisconsin Legislature at the capitol in madison. He injures his a new 100 per child tax he introduces his new 100 per child tax credit. He introduces healthcare coverage for those with pre existing condition. This is just over