Transcripts For CSPAN3 Veteran Homelessness 20180203

Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity oversight hearing on veteran homelessness. I want to apologize first for being a little late. I had another obligation in my responsibility on the budget committee. And my breathe brad winstrup, chair of the Health Subcommittee will not be able to make it and so im going to preside. We have the vha subcommittee chair Julie Brownley and her capable leadership. Thanks for being here. Then my friend from texas and Ranking Member of the subcommittee for Economic Opportunity, orourke is joining me as well. Our chairman is joining us. Thank you, dr. Rowe, for coming, i want to begin by also asking for unanimous consent for congressman mike kauffman, congressman scott peters and i guess thats it to set in on the dais and participate in todays hearing. I dont hear any objection. So ordered. Im going to cut through my remarks here and break from my customary reading a script and just say that this is a subject that is heartbreaking. And when you look at the statistics on veteran home lessne homelessness and the underlying issues that our veterans struggle with, many and maybe mostly on the account of the burden that they bore for us and for our country and for our freedom, it just its just gutwrenching. And we there is not an issue i dont believe that is more, you know, important than to find ways to help and serve this segment of the veteran population. As i read and studied up and prepared on background, i noticed that there has been an exponential increase in funding in this area and there are some 20plus programs across the various agencies with respect to the v. A. , most of this is at the vha, but thats a lot of programs and thats a tremendous increase in funding. Heres my deal, is it working . Whats working . Whats not working . How do we measure the success of these programs . Because it is only because of the generosity of the taxpayer that we have this opportunity. And so i have a number of questions. I think its encouraging to see a significant decline in homelessness over the course of the last several years on account of i think the commitment from the secretary and the administration in the past. As somebody once told me, if you throw enough money at something, youre going to see the needle move. But are we spending it wisely, effectively and then how do we focus these resources where they can have the greatest return . A, to help the veteran, b, to assure our taxpayers that their money is going is being productively spent. With that, i think we just lets get this hearing started. And, again, i apologize because i was not going to open this up, but lets go ahead and introduce our panelist okay, im going to defer to you, madam Ranking Member brownley, and ask that you provide any opening comments. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i just would like to say that i concur with everything that youve said in your remarks. And i would add that in 2009, former secretary shinseki pledged a commitment to ending homelessness among veterans. In 2014, former secretary mcdonald also committed to this pledge to end homelessness among veterans. Between 2009 and 2016, veteran homelessness was reduced by 47 . In 2017, secretary shulkin shared his top five priorities for the v. A. , and as many may be aware, ending veterans homelessness was not included in that list of priorities. I fear based on the actions of this administration thus far that in the coming years we will continue to lose ground in our fight against veteran homelessness. In 2017, huds annual survey found that veteran homelessness increased by 1. 5 . However, when you drill down into these numbers and look at specific communities, the picture is much more alarming. Los angeles county, which i represent a part of, saw a 57 increase in the number of Homeless Veterans just in the past year. Id like to enter into the record a letter from the l. A. County board of supervisors, the mayor, united way and the Los Angeles Homeless Service authority that outlines the challenges ahead to end veteran homelessness. Yes. Thank you very much. These local partners are committed to working together with the v. A. And other federal agencies to ensure all veterans have access to safe and Affordable Housing. There is no doubt combatting veteran homelessness but be an interagency effort. In 2014 when we last held a hearing on this issue, and is why i wanted to hold this hearing because its been several years since weve gotten an update, john downing, ceo of soldier on, said based on his experience that 100 of homeless female veterans encountered encountered and have survived military sexual trauma. Without the v. A. , hud would not know how to treat the underlying trauma and injuries that mst can lead to. Without hud, the v. A. Would not have the Housing Assistance expertise necessary to ensuring that veterans receive permanent housing as part of their treatment. And finally, without the department of labor, that veteran would be hardpressed to overcome the barriers faced by many, if not all, transitioning veterans seeking employment in the civilian market. This is the same for many veterans, whether they are survivors of sexual assault, struggling with addiction or managing Mental Health conditions. These veterans are complex, their issues are complex, the solution is complex, but by working together we can build on the gains we made over the last seven years, which saw three states and 57 communities eliminate veteran homelessness altogether. The progress made during those seven years was, quite frankly, incredible, and it was in large part due to the hard work of the case managers, social workers, health care personnel, counselors, volunteers and veterans themselves. I commend the hard work of our boots on the ground organizations and the commitment of Agency Officials during this time, some of whom are testifying today. And i question why this administration would backtrack on that solution and risk the lives of Homeless Veterans nationwide. I hope the president s budget this year reflects a new found commitment to ending veteran homelessness through an allocation of funding that supports both the housing and Wraparound Services necessary to heal and house these veterans. Mr. Chairman, i thank you and i thank you for your commitment to this issue and i look forward to our discussion ahead. Thank you, Ranking Member brownley. I now yield five minutes for opening remarks for Ranking Member orourke from the great state of texas. Thats right. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member brownley, i want to thank you and the staffs that work with you and the staffs that work on the Economic Opportunity subcommittee for the work thats gone into preparing for this hearing. This is why i love serving on this committee, the fact that chairman rowe is here, the fact that member whos are not even on the committees of jurisdiction have asked to have the privilege of sitting here and being helpful as we try to address this issue of veterans homelessness, which is not provocative, its not sensational, it doesnt grab headlines, its not one of those things that people are on late night tv screaming at each other about, but it could not be more important, and the fact that were able to across party lines Work Together and do whats important, much the way weve addressed access to Mental Health and meeting the crisis of veteran suicide headon and making progress in that very important underserved area, i feel that well be able to do the same thing here. The only thing, mr. Chairman, i could add to your comments. You say because it is the generosity of the taxpayer that we have the opportunity to do this work, its also thanks to the service of those veterans Whose Service we are honoring by our commitment to make sure that none of them are homeless, that we get that down to zero in every single one of our communities, whether thats functional zero or real zero. That may be part of the conversation today. We need to make sure the its the resources, to your point, the oversight, the accountability, the follow through to make sure these programs are working. Im so pleased we have such an Important Panel before us, those who understand and work on this issue directly, who are going to be able to inform the policy that we make here and improve our level of oversight and the accountability from the v. A. And the federal government. And, lastly, i just want to thank mr. John martin from the Opportunity Center in el paso as someone who makes this flight every single week, i know how hard it is to get from el paso to washington, d. C. , and i know you almost didnt make it due to some problems with some of those connections. The fact that youd take some time out of what youre doing, the important work in serving veterans in el paso to be here and help us, just know that were grateful and i extend that gratitude to everyone on this panel. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Orourke. And now we will get to our first panel. Id like to welcome you guys again this morning. Thank you for making time for this very important issue and were honored to have you here. Lets start with john f. Clancy, the president and chief executive officer of the tri state Veterans Community alliance, which is located in cincinnati, ohio. Mr. Clancy, thank you for being here today and representing the ohioans you serve, angela f. Williams is next. She is president and chief executive officer of easter seals incorporated. Stephen peck, the president and chief executive officer of u. S. Vets. John w. Martin, the Development Director for the Opportunity Center, and finally, katherine monet, the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans. Thank you guys again for being here. Mr. Clancy, start with you. We now recognize you for five minutes. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is john clancy. Im an air force veteran. I serve as the president and ceo of the Tristate Veteran Community Alliance in cincinnati, ohio. Thank you for inviting me to testify today at this important hearing regarding support for our veterans in need. As an independent veteranled Nonprofit Organization focused on improving the access to and the quality of Services Offered to veterans and their families, we appreciate the opportunity to share our perspective and provide recommendations to address the needs of veterans in distress. The tvca was created four years ago to serve as a Backbone Organization responsible for aligning veteran support in our region. We partner with over 150 local organizations and operate a veteran inProcessing Center that is meaningful serviced and met the needs of more than 1,150 veterans since opening. We piloted programs that fill gaps in our community such as an accelerated Career Training and Placement Program for midlevel noncommissioned officers and an educational story telling event for veterans to share their story with local citizens. We leverage our United Way Call Center and facilitate data sharing efforts inside and outside our region. Our efforts are characterized by the following aspects, we are practicing, seeking to engage veterans and their families before a crisis happens. We seek collaboration whenever possible. We work across sectors. We have many businesses involved in our efforts but also include social services veteran organizations and all major educational institutions, and finally we look for Systemic Solutions in addition to program improvement. That said, it is important for the community to assess how the resources provided by the v. A. , hud and dol impact the lives of all veterans, but more urgently, our distressed and or Homeless Population. Based on our Community Needs assessments, we recommend that resources be considered for downstream programming related to behavorial health, wellness and social support, addressing what are often the root causes of homelessness and upstream support for collaborative programs that can intercept veterans and resolve issues before they become a crisis. Over the last decade, the efforts of all three federal agencies have been commendable and successful. The v. A. Designed a strategy called Housing First to address the problem, especially throat veterans who experienced chronic homelessness. A cosponsored initiate with hud to invest resources in stable permanent housing with chronically Homeless Veterans and case managers to help them prevent experiencing further homeless episodes. Have also served to facilitate the Successful Transition of veterans from homelessness. With current strategy at its tenyear mark, the v. A. And hud Housing First programs have successfully reduced veteran homelessness by nearly 50 . However, based on client trends seen in our region, we believe that client needs and demographic profile are beginning to show signs from traditionally Homeless Individuals to those transitioning or at risk. We should begin to adapt the Current System to not only focus on Homeless Veterans but also successful Life Transitions for atrisk veterans. To accomplish this shift in mindset, a broader set of outcomes need to be developed that involves not just housing attainment, but boosting veteran selfefficacy, development of personal goals and developing or enhappening the motivation to succeed in the civilian world. How soon or at what at the individual level for those in acute distress, we need to ensure the right levels of care are accessible and available. At a systemic level, we need to ensure existing organizations are communicating and strategizing across sectors, including the continuums of care, medical centrals and other veteran wellness and support groups. Finally and ultimately, we need tone sure that the transition system from military to civilian life is coordinated. Veterancentered and resourced. This includes a greater level of information sharing, new and improved programming focused on proactive investmentbuildi proactive investmentbuilding programings. We believe collaborators like the tvca and combined arms in houston, for example, are a key part of the solution. Decrease competition and allow for the scaling up of efforts to support transitioning veterans. A coordinated communitybased approach that brings together diverse sets of resources and identifies new opportunities across public and private sectors is needed. We applaud your review of the mix of programs available for veterans, assessing the correct mix for current needs and opportunities. In closing, we would like to stress again the importance of a relevant, trusted Community Organization that can initiate and sustain the conversation for strategy support, employment and wellness. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Clancy. We now yield five minutes to ms. Williams. Chairman arrington, Ranking Members brownley and orourke and members of the subcommittees, good morning, im angela williams. Im president and ceo of easter sales. A Nonprofit Organization committed to helping veterans and others reach their full potential through local services and supports. Im also a proud veteran. Thank you for inviting me to testify this morning on this hearing to assess the various programs designed to reduce veteran homeless necessary. East easter seals has been actively serving veterans for more than seven decades. My testimony will highlight our experience in responding to the needs of homeless and atrisk veterans through employment and other supports needed for their Successful Community reintegration. In 2010, about time easter seals started a new phase in its effort to help Homeless Veterans, our countrys veteran Homeless Population grew to over 74,000. Today that number has dropped nearly 46 , due to strong collaboration between federal, state and local partners and the complimentary alignment of programs across various federal agencies. In my written testimony, i shared the story of paula, a veteran who moved to new york city to find work and turn her life around. Her job search was complicated by employment barriers that proved too difficult to overcome. Defeated and homeless, she turned to a womens shelter where thankfully she was referred to easter seals for employment assistance. We leveraged our Community Partners to help paula with housing, resume development, interview preparation, obtaining the appropriate wardrobe and subway cards to get to job interviews. Today, paula is living independently, working fulltime and contributing to her Community Thanks to the National Veteran homeless strategy developed by congress and implemented by federal agencies. Paulas Story Highlights the effective collaboration and alignment of the department of veteran Affairs Supportive services for Veterans Families Programs or ssvf. The department of housing and urban development and v. A. s Supportive Housing program, hud vash and the department of labors Reintegration Program. It takes the strengths, resources and collaboration of many to help veterans succeed. Eastersealsdecision is to help veterans find jobs. Our e made us a natural partner with the department of labor on its hvrp program, which is employmentfocused and a perfect compliment to the Housing Focus of hud vash and the v. A. s Supportive Services for Veterans Families Program. The Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program taps into the existing network by providing grants to local organizations. Easterseals operates 11a trp grants nationwide. We provide Employment Services to nearly 1,200 Homeless Veterans last program year. And are proud to share that 61 found jobs during that year. With wages averaging from 10 to nearly 21 per hour. Once unemployed and homeless, these veterans are now working, paying taxes and contributing to their communities. Their success represents a strong return on the federal investment which averages about 2,500 per veteran. Easterseals is honor to be part of the solution in reducing veteran homelessness. But our work is not finished. I include recommendations in my written testimony to build on the Strong Foundation congress has set for addressing veteran homelessness. Let me boil them down to two main points. One, congress should support full funding and a longterm extension for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program. Easterseals supports the bipartisan effort to expand and expand additional funding is necessary to meet the growing needs of the chronicy homeless and hardest to serve veterans who will require more supports and time to find employment and housing success. Two, congress should expand early access to communitybased support services. The first step is to approve chairman winstrup and Ranking Member brownleys bill hr 4451 that expands veteran eligibility to services. Congress should also consider ways to expand federallyfunded Community Case management to proactively meet the challenges of veterans will before they meet the homeless and unemployed Eligibility Criteria of programs like hvrp and ssvf. Thank you for your time today. Im pleased to answer any questions. Thank you, ms. Williams. Mr. Peck, five minutes. Good morning. My name is stephen peck and im the president and ceo of u. S. Vets. Im also a vietnam veteran. I served with the First Marine Division near da nang and ive been working with Homeless Veterans since 1991. U. S. Vets is the largest veteranspecific nonprofit housing and Service Provider in the country, providing housing and services to 3,300 veterans every night and providing homelessness prevention, employment and Mental Health services to an additional 5,000 veterans in the communities that we serve. Im also the president of the California Association of Veterans Service agencies, comprised of seven veteran nonprofits that collectively provide housing and care to more than 25,000 veterans each year. Despite hundreds of millions of dollars spent, numerous Government Policies and the best efforts of hundreds of communities, there are still more than 40,000 veterans living on your streets. And that number is rising across the nation. In california, the number of Homeless Veterans rose nearly 20 in 2017. And in los angeles, that number rose 57 . This is no time to be taking our eye off the ball. Despite this upward trend, it seems to us that there is no longer an emphasis and determination to get every veteran off the streets. This shift in focus is evident in two ways. First, the proposal by the v. A. To take permanent housing, Supportive Service dollars out of the special projects category where it is protected and placing these dollars into the general fund where medical directors can redirect it at will. While they have said they will not shift these dollars, the vast funds remain in the general fund line item. And second, v. A. s overall management of the hud vash program. It is plagued by lack of accountability, insufficient Data Collection and inadequate Outcome Measures. Together, these factors can inhibit our ability to get veterans off the streets and into permanent housing and provide the Case Management and Supportive Services that will keep them there. The Housing First model that the v. A. Professes to follow follows a clientcase marng ratio of 251. Access with a simple phone call 24 hours a day. That is not whats happening. Projectbased beds at five of our sites and v. A. Social workers are consistently failing to provide the required coverage. For 75 vash vouchers, the v. A. Is required to cover three fulltime case managers. We never have three. We rarely have two. And our clinical staff picks up the slack. If a nonprofit such as u. S. Vets provided that level of coverage while contracted with the v. A. , we would lose the contract. Ive attached three letters from three different communities awarded hud vouchers. Two in california and one in florida. In each case, the v. A. Has indicated that it does not have the resources to provide adequate case managed coverage for the number of hud vouchers awarded. The result is that the vouchers go unused while veterans languish on the streets. If i understand correctly, funding that congress has appropriated to the v. A. Specifically for vast Case Management positions is for some reason not available. Veterans still living on our streets need every dollar of this funding. If the vash program where turned into a grant program, nonprofits would assume full responsibility, would spend every dollar appropriately and could be held to Outcome Measures that we are already meeting and exceeding. Because our program are residential, we have staff 24 7 and used to responding to client issues day and night. U. S. Vets provides Case Management for 423 beds with a 92 retention rate. A recent Study Reports a 70 success rate in the hud program. The study also states the vast majority of those veterans exited the program was unknown, quote, as huds systems do not have the capacity to track this information, unquote. This is just careless. Homeless veterans rate of attempted suicide is 20 times higher than the rate of sigh side attempts among all veterans. They are plainly at risk and desperate for our help and we need better data on how federal funding is serving or failing them. Weve all been at this for a long time and youve put a lot of money into this so you might ask what is your return on investment . My 25 years of experience tells me if you pull back now, the number of Homeless Veterans on the street will continue to grow and they will use the only Services Available to them, expensive Mental Health and medical services. They will spend time in jail and homeless shelters and continue to die, having been abandoned by the country they fought for. Combatting homelessness is it not a onetime fix, it is an ongoing effort to mitigate the inequality that exists in our system for veterans who through lack of opportunity, lack of education, mental illness, combat trauma or other deficits end up on the margins of society. We are paying for this tragedy one way or another. We simply have to make the decision that these veterans lives are worth saving. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Peck. Mr. Martin, you are now recognized for five minutes. Good morning. My name is john martin. I am the Development Director for the Opportunity Center for the homeless in el paso, texas, and i think that statement in and of itself is important because my comments are going to be reflective of the community that is struggling as it relates to ending homelessness, whether it be veterans, chronically homeless or the families and youth. The other aspect of this, as i mentioned to a couple of folks as we started this, i felt a little bit like a fish out of water from the standpoint that i tend to live more in the hud world than i do the v. A. , but its also very important that we need to understand how the two need to overlap with one another as we work through this. The Opportunity Center for the homeless has existed now for over 24 years in el paso. Ive had the pleasure of working with them for four. As a Development Director, i do a lot of strategy and a lot of thinking. Many might consider my position to be that of a professional beggar. As a general description. The truth of the matter is, we care for a majority of the homeless in el paso, and that includes the chronic homeless. Of our population that we serve, roughly 15 are homeless and these are individuals that do not qualify based on eligibility requirements associated with the v. A. So were looking at the other end of the spectrum. As a direct result, we have to rely on hud funding for that purpose, and there has already been a reference during this testimony to the Housing First initiative. An initiative that has severely hampered our efforts in el paso. Housing first is an Incredible Program so i dont want anybody to take those comments the wrong way, but in respect, all of our funding within the community is now directing toward increasing our Housing Inventory and not that of support services and the two must go hand in hand. As an example, just over the last five years, weve lost 1. 2 million per year as a community not as an organization as it relates to support services. Now, that includes employment, legal, transportation, medical care, Mental Health, street outreach. In turn, as a community leave lost a little over half a Million Dollars with regard to overall funding. And so what were facing is a struggle at this point is to provide the appropriate level of services that are needed, not only for placement within housing under the Housing First initiative, which is an incredible tool, but also with regard to sustainability and how to present prevent recidivism. In my written testimony, i gave you some numbers. Numbers that are reflective of us as an organization, an organization that has 14 programs and 10 different houses. Those ten houses, seven of which are permanent housing, one of which is transitional, which is our Veterans Transitional Living Center which is the gpd program we operate within the community. The remaining are what you would refer to as Emergency Shelters. And thats where that 15 lie. And these are individuals that are defined as chronicy homeless, both based on disability as well as length of homelessness. And so in turn, when you look at goals such at 251 on a Case Management stated earlier, which is the ideal situation, were working in situations where its 200 to 2501 and that is because of the absence of what we need for those support service dollars. Because we as a community and general statement, were a very poor community. A little over 50 of our population falls under 200 of the federal poverty level. So you would say that we have a low tax base. So we have no local investment with regard to the city or to the county. And so for us, the burden is placed on the Service Provider. And were being asked to do more with less. And i think my conclusion here, if i so make that statement, is that in some respects as it relates to funding, you have to take a look at the unique characteristics of each of the communities because in many cases those parameters, those metrics that are imposed on us as an agency that receives funds are restricted in a manner that works in other communities but not necessarily el paso. We need to have that flexibility to be able to design a system utilizing those same mechanisms meets the need within the community and the unique characteristics of those we serve. With that stated, i welcome any questions when that time comes and i look forward to having further discussion. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Martin. Ms. Knmonet, you are recognized for five minutes. Im the ceo of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans. On behalf our our board of directors and members across the country, we thank you for the opportunity to share our viewers with you this morning. The resource and Technical Assistance center for communitybased Service Providers and local, state and federal agencies that provide a range of housing and Supportive Services to hundreds of thousands of homeless, at risk and formerly Homeless Veterans across the country. Were committed to working with our partners to end veteran homelessness. The good news is that 60 communities, including three states, have achieved the federal benchmarks and criteria for ending veteran homelessness and this demonstrates for the First Time Ever that ending homelessness is actually an achievable goal. This progress is largely a testament to the dedication and hard work of local Service Provides and v. A. Medical staff. In the abstract, this is progress towards this major goal, right . But in real terms, its lifechanging for the veteran whos have been able to access housing and assistance as a result. Now the bad news here, as youve heard over and over this morning, our hold on this progress is tenuous as best, as evidence of the number of veterans between 2016 and 2017. 36 states and d. C. All saw decreases in veteran homelessness, other communities with particularly highcost relentless markets saw dramatic increases. From our perspective, an increase of even one veteran is one too many. So this is a really strark remind tore all of us that now is not the time to take our foot off the gas pedal or reshift finances we need to focus on doubling down on these efforts to ensure that homelessness is rare, brief and nonreoccurring for all veterans and all americans. It really means looking at your Community Level data and knowing your homeless neighbors and their needs, right, so that you can really implement evidencebased strategies like Housing First, Community Wide and Homeless Veterans can access permanent housing quickly and all of the resources like employment and Supportive Services that they might need for housing stability. We also need to recognize, though, that Housing First never means housing only. So successful implementation of Housing First really includes access to health and Mental Health care and Wraparound Services like benefit assistance, employment and Training Services and all the other things a veteran needs to make sure their housing placement is sustainable. Here in d. C. Doubling down means that Congress Needs to ensure that key programs that serve veterans experiences homelessness are sufficiently funded. We never advocate for the growth of resources for the sake of expanding programs, but the uptick in the count with rising rents across the country and the series of natural disasters that occurred demands nothing short of your leadership and attention with regard to both funding and oversight of these programs. Homelessness is a multifasciated and complex problem that differs for every single veteran experiencing it. One of the best ways we can address it is for congress to support a permanent reauthorization for usich. The small team of experts at usich convenes federal agencies in order to set shared policy objectives that can actualize the plan to end homelessness among veterans. That would otherwise waste effort and resources. We can also encourage further collaboration between v. A. , hud, dol and all other grantees to provide more Seamless Services to Homeless Veterans. One of the best examples is the hud vash program as it allows v. A. To focus its resources more efficiently by pairing v. A. Funded Case Management with the hud funded section 8 voucher for some of most vulnerable veterans we see. Distributed to Medical Centers through a special purpose designation as the case managers truly must be located where the vouchers are distributed to ensure adequate support for the veterans using these vouchers. As you know, last september v. A. Sent guidance to directors regarding the immediate conversion of this funding from special purpose to general purpose funds. While v. A. Has backed away from this decision for the time being, this could have dramatically reduced Case Management for vulnerable veterans using these vouchers. Let be very clear here, we object in the strongest terms to this conversion or any action that would reduce case manager availability to the veterans using hud vouchers. These vouchers are wellknown as Critical Resources that make housing affordable, incentivize Affordable Housing development and allow communities to end homelessness. Any reductions would lead to veterans not receiving the care which they rely on to maintain housing and these case managers like mr. Peck said are already stretched thin, sometimes carrying for far more veterans than indicated. To remove these would be catastrophic to the health, wellbeing and housing stability of all of the veterans using these vouchers. We insist they must be used for their intended purpose. Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony. Its a privilege to work with you and your staff so that every veteran has access to safe, decent and Affordable Housing paired with Supportive Services. Thank you. Thank you, ms. Monet and all the panelists for your remarks. I want to now yield to our chairman, dr. Phil rowe, five minutes for comments and questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. I have another Committee Hearing ive got to go to, but i wanted to hear this testimony today because to me one of the and, first of all, all of you here, thank you for what you do and thank you for the service to our country. Those of you who served in the military. I very much appreciate that. One of the frustration i think you have to take a step back is and id like oh hear any of you, what is the primary cause not for just homelessness in general, i think a have a fairly good understanding been out for veterans homelessness. These are very people who are in the military and had responsible jobs in the military and now theyre out and are homeless. And i know there are three of us here. We were here nine years ago when general shinseki said were going to end veterans homelessness by 2016, which i thought was an honorable goal to do and bring the programs to do that. Number one, in veterans, what is the primary cause . Is it relationships . Is it Mental Health . Is it Substance Abuse . What is it . Anybody can take a whack at that. Ill jump in. Its all of the above. While combat trauma is the cause in some veterans, military sexual trauma among the female veterans who are also committing suicide at an alarming rate, but its also societal issues. They go into the military perhaps to escape from a disruptive family life, perhaps to escape from gangs, they are in the military for two or three years and they come out really with knowing how to shoot a gun or drive a tank, so the transition is very challenging with among those groups that are coming out. I disagree. I think they come out with more skills than that. They learn leadership skills. They learn how to get up early in morning and work hard. As a matter of fact, there is no clock when youre in the military. You understand that and i understand that. I understand, yes. Its 24 7. So they bring out some very good skills, i think you learn in the military. Absolutely. They also have when we were in the military, we knew what we were doing 24 hours a day, it wasnt our responsibility to go out there and determine what happens next, what happens a year from now. Some dont transfer those skills well into the civilian workforce. A couple of other things, and i have visited the l. A. Campus and what theyre doing for the homeless there. I made a trip there several months ago. With the job market being at historic lows, in our state, we have a state Unemployment Rate of 3 , and i know californias economy is doing well. How do you attribute this and i think this point in time whether its up or down, these point in time are never all that accurate, theyre just a guess at how many Homeless People there are at any particular point in time, but why do you think in california the rates gone up . Are people moving into california . Is that what it is . What would be the reason . There have always been more veterans in california than anywhere else. More Homeless Veterans there than anywhere else. As you said, the Unemployment Rate is very low, so some of the veterans dont have the skills that they need to. The housing is very high. High, yeah. So they are unable to at a minimum wage job or even at 15, 18 an hour able to afford the housing that would take them out of homelessness. So a number of them are staying at our site in our permanent housing much longer than they would like to because they cant afford to move out into the community. Thats one of the things we found, even in rural east tennessee where i live, a couple of things, one, finding housing that is affordable, even where we are, and to get developers to build housing that would meet these needs. Its a huge problem for our lower income people. And afterwards id love to discuss with you a program we have done at home beginning at home that seems to work pretty well. Not to take all time, mr. Martin, you mentioned also something, and we seem to be spending more and more money, but i feel like im running in place. You mentioned that and youre correct that every community is different. And that el paso, texas, is different than northeast tennessee where i live. So i think you were so suggesting that you need more flexibility in these grants to be able to do what you need to do, but im not sure whether its to fill a hole in what your community wasnt doing or whether you need the money just the grant doesnt fit your community. In direct response to your question, chairman, its not necessarily to fill a hole. We have created a foundation under what a continue of care model that was in place until roughly 2009 2010 when the new Opening Doors Initiative Came out. That model was the foundation for what it was we were doing in el paso and the success we had in el paso. And when we had that shift in funding, which was focused more on housing, it took the dollars away from the support services. Because the veterans that were working with in the Opportunity Center are those that are not v. A. Eligible, and so they have very limited options. And they tend to stay with us. Now many times they can access ssvf, but because of local requirements we had, thats limited limited to three months worth of assistance. If we go back to the comments that were just made with regard to a living wage, you cant do that with an entry level position. Many times its three months and youre out. We see that return to homelessness or recidivism that is going to take place. Thats illustrated in the numbers i provided to you within the written testimony for our organization. Now, its too early to tell if thats going to be a trend, but we did see a significant increase in recidivism from 2016 to 2017 and were also seeing an increase in shelter nights, which is how we gauge services. Thats not unique individuals served, those are the individuals that come in and take advantage of the shelter because they simply dont have any other options at this point. So its that support Service Component that is desperately needed at this point when we talk about Case Management. Just to give you an example of some of the services that were lost, daycare, legal, transportation, Mental Health, okay . All of those are those Wraparound Services that these panelists have indicated are desired because we dont need to simply look at placement, we need to look at stabiliustainab and thats where that flexibility is needed. My time is eksz pierd, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for what you do in a very difficult population and situation. Thank you for the effort youre putting into that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield myself five minutes for questions. For me, just some context, and these are broad questions but and i think i can drill down and my colleagues may be it will be useful to them as well. Ending homelessness is a very laudable vision. But if we cant measure it then we wont achieve it. So my question to each of you, and well just go down the line, define ending homelessness as it relates to your organization and then tell me specifically how you measure the success of achieving that outcome. Just go down the line. Start with you, mr. Clancy. Yes, sir. So at the tvca, we dont provide direct support, we dont receive any federal funding for hvrp or any of those programs so we network with the organizations in our community. What we see that drives the homelessness, important factor is is not unemployment but underemployment. As was talked about before. So its almost like when you think about unemployment and you think about the nation, you never get to 0, right . Right. There is always some factor in there. When youre at 3 unemployment, youre basically at full employment in the country and the same thing can be said on the veterans side. So to say youre going to get to 0 homelessness is probably not an actual achievable goal because there will always be folks through addiction or Mental Health dont take the support that is offered there. Do you think were at that function functional 0 or do you think where there are still ways to weve made a tremendous tremendous success over the last nine or ten years getting that down. We captured the lowhanging fruit, so to speak and getting that down to the veterans who really need the help. Ive worked before i took this role i was the director of veteran services for easterseals in cincinnati and we had access to hud vash vouchers and hvrp and also on the rehab side, Educational Assistance for veterans. I can tell you, its sometimes hard to find those veterans that you can apply those funds to in the cincinnati area, at least. Why . What we try to do is get the transition why cant you find the veteran to apply them to . Well, unfortunately, as we talked about before, not as we about before, not every part of the country is the same. You have some states that have decliered the end of veteran homelessness, and states like ohio that had a 7 decrease last year. The National Rate ent up 1. 5 , 568 veterans, but the state of california had 1,800 veterans. Back to my original question, youre saying the underlying issue with homelessness, or at least a major underlying issue is employment, underemployment, and so you would define success as getting veterans a job . Getting them a job, as well as, you know, housing, all those issues combined. But where theyre theyre not needing assistance. Is it housing, or is it the job that allows them to sustain sel selfsufficiency so that think can have that independence and pay the rent and feel the dignity of all thats involved in that. Thats absolutely right. Would you define that as success. Yes, sir. Let me ask ms. Williams. In the interest of time, i need to make it through the panel here. So easter sales focuses on employment. When youre able to get someone employment that helps them to be able to sustain housing. We measure success by how many veterans were able to get employed, and then from there hopefully to become contributing members of the society, and be able to sustain themselves and families. Mr. Peck. Thank you. Four things. Those transitional housing programs that provide the rehab that get them right off the street. The Mental Health counseling to address their Mental Health issues. The employment. Theres never enough Employment Training money, ever. And the Affordable Housing. You need those four together. In the interest of time, lets just keep going. Mr. Martin . First and foremost, im not hit your mic, if you would. My apologies. Thats all right. First and foremost, im not overly fund of the term functional zero. When you look at our veteran population, those that are not v. A. Eligible, a vast majority of over the age of 50. We look at success as housing sustainability, not necessarily placement, but sustainability and the wrap around services that go with it. Sustainability as in their ability to sustain their independence and because of employment . Because of employment and the other related services. And rehabilitation, et cetera. Youre absolutely correct, sustainability. Ms. Monet, then im gone. We want to look at how communities are building the systems that are making homelessness brief and nonrecurring. Youre aware the federal government has a set of benchmarks and criteria they use to assess. It looks at, do you know your veterans, are you making offers of permanent housing, can you move them into permanent housing within 90 days or less, are you decreasing unshell forred homelessness . If youre in a shelter, you count as homeless. Things like that are really how we would look at success. Okay, thank you, ms. Monet. My time is expired. I now recognize ms. Brownlee, Ranking Member vha for her remarks and questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i too want to thank the Witnesses Today for being here and the work that you do every single day in support of our veterans in addressing this issue of homelessness around the country. Mr. Peck, you had mentioned in your testimony that you were particularly concerned about v. A. Having an intention to rededicate some vash Supportive Services funds into the general fund. My understanding in terms of what their intention is, and i will certainly ask the v. A. When theyre up next, but that they were going to take 5 sort of across the board from these funds to provide resources to meet sort of the priorities of the v. A. , giving those dollars to directors, et cetera to be able to accomplish those goals. I want to make sure that we have pulled back from that. But my understanding is that 5 , that would roughly mean about 264 million taken away from Supportive Services to veterans. So i guess my question really is, you know, what are you hearing on the ground visavis that . Are you hearing that, you know, these funds are going to be taken away . What do you know . Were in 11 different locations across the country. Were hearing different things. Some of the v. A. S have assured us that those funds will be there. Other v. A. S have not. As i said in my testimony, were not getting the Case Management help we need today when those funds are to be protected. Theyre to be used only for case managers. Theyre not be. I dont know where they are. My fear is that if those funds if the directors have a choice to redirect those funds, that they will redirect those funds to other needs within their community. As i said, the suicide rate among Homeless Veterans is very, very high, much, much higher than the rest of the population. In effect, providing services for these Homeless Veterans is Suicide Prevention. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. Can you do you know what has been said in los angeles relative to this issue specifically . Ive spoken to ann brown, the director of the west l. A. V. A. , she said she will not Homeless Population in los angeles. Do you know what percentage are female veterans . Roughly. I dont. Its quite small. Its generally about 3 . And do they typically have children also . Some portion of them do. Many of them have lost custody of their children. But some portion of them do, yes. Im not quite sure what that proportion is, sorry. And so as far as the Case Management or lack of Case Management, is the problem that the resources arent there to hire or is it problem of constant churn and turnover . Do you have any sense of that . Theyre hiring within that bureaucracy is challenging. Sometimes it takes a number of months to do that. But the west l. A. V. A. With the number of vash vouchers in los angeles has something over 200 social workers. Thats hard to manage. My recommendation is that they spread those contracts out among agencies that are knowledgeable in the community so that each agency is able to do that job with more oversight. Because the oversight now is just not good. If homelessness in Los Angeles County has risen 57 , and i believe l. A. Has approximately 20 of the homeless veteran population across the country, do you feel like your that los angeles is getting the proportionally correct amount of resources distributed across the country . Los angeles has been pointed out before for funds because i think everyone who knows anything about Homeless Veterans knows theres an awful lot of Homeless Veterans there, and more than anywhere else in the country. Whether we are getting the appropriate share, i couldnt tell you. But i think weve got Something Like 1,500 vash vouchers, Something Like that. Thank you. I realize that my time is up. I yield back. I apologize. No, im a little faster and looser than the chairman over to my left. So youre okay. This is were going to theres going to be a second round here. But great line of questions. Now i would yield five minutes to the chairman of the vha, mr. Wenstrup. Thank you very much. I want to thank you all for being here and for what you do each and every day in the efforts that you make in trying to help our fellow americans, and those that defended our country. And i became familiar when i came back from iraq. I wasnt looking for a job. I had the medical practice to go to. But i became very familiar with the work of easter seals in trying to make those matchups, working not only with potential employees, but with employers in trying to make that match. So im going to direct my questions to mr. Clancy today because i have a real geographic bias on where he is being from cincinnati, ohio, and being familiar with the senator. I would like, if you could, just comment for a minute, the relationships that you have been able to build with places like joseph house, and with our Veterans Court, and how that relates to reducing homelessness. Thank, congressman. Thank you, congressman. The whole purpose of this when it was built was to be the center of collaboration for the hundreds of veterans in the cincinnati area. We have built very Good Relationships. We dont compete with anybody for the federal dollars. When we have a veteran in distress that comes there our in Processing Center we can diagnose them and refer them autoto all the agencies out there, including easter seals. When i was with easter seals, we worked closely with the tvca, we continue to do that now. Of course, Veterans Court and all those types of things that are trying to get our veterans in a better direction. Absolutely. We have a very strong Veterans Court in cincinnati. And at the tvca we have subgroups on specific issues we work on, education, employment, health and wellness, and, for example, the employment the education subgroup right now is working with Veterans Court to try to get those veterans that need help access to the gi bill. I know that the center has been pretty robust, and a lot of interactions with veterans of all ages, not just recent veterans. But some from previous wars. And we always want to get Lessons Learned. And where i want to go with this is, this is Economic Opportunity committee and health committee. And what are you seeing or what do you think could be done better, you know, we engage in the transition assistance program, which is administered by d. O. D. Are there things we can do before people take that uniform off that can help them in the long run as far as guidance, counseling, on the track to a profession, you know, rather than v. A. , and what you do being reactive later, what can we do more on the front end . Thats a great point, and we thats one of the goals we have, things we strive for is to contact the veterans upstream, even as theyre separating, we have a program we call vet excel where we work directly with the National Guard, which is big in cincinnati, we work directly with them with the veterans that are separating to help them with their resume, the culture change theyre going to see from a military unit to a civilian office in terms of everything from the direct feedback you might get in the military that you might not get in the civilian workforce, even what to wear. We continue to see underemployment a big concern. We help them take the experience they have in the military, and be able to change the verbiage, or explain properly to a civilian h. R. Department what theyre capable of doing. We have a twoweek program we do that, work with the companies with the h. R. Departments directly and the veterans directly. We try to make the one on one match. Its combination. We need to be upstream helping the veterans understand the change theyre about to have. And being local like that, the guard is a perfect opportunity to do that. Absolutely. What kind of success or results are you having, and what are some of the walls, if you will, in the process . Well, were getting great feedback from the companies that we deal with. They love the veterans. There is no there is no problem in unemployment in cincinnati. If you theres a great opportunity for employment. So they want they love the veterans because they show up on time, they have a sense of mission, a sense of team. And so from the h. R. Perspective, from the companys perspective we get great feedback on all the veterans we send their way. From the National Guard side, theyre very excited about what were doing. They like that their veterans are hitting the ground running on their civilian side. From the veteran themselves . Im looking for best practices here. What kind of feedback from the individual veterans themselves . The individual veterans really appreciate the mentoring that we can give. Were all veteran staff. Theres plenty of corporate veterans out there that can be mentors for other veterans coming out of the service. And so one of the best practices we have is having those civilian, now civilian, former military successful businessmen and women mentor the new soldiers coming out of the military. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, chairman wenstrup. Well now yield five minutes to the Ranking Member of the Economic Opportunities subcommittee, mr. Orourke. Thank you, mr. Chairman. This has been one of the most helpful panels appearing before the House Veteran Affairs committee in my five years too. Thank you for what youve brought to the table today. Some of the takeaways for me, mr. Peck, i think you asked the defining moral question of this committee when you asked, are these lives worth saving . When you point out there are 20 veterans a day every single day in this country who take their own lives and the suicide rate among Homeless Veterans is 20 times the general population, that should catch everyones attention and add some urgency to our work on this. I want to thank you for making it clear were in crisis today. Until we resolve this we will remain in crisis. We need to meet the crisis with urgent action. Many panelists, including mr. Peck and mr. Martin, make an excellent point to answer the chairmans concern about the fiduciary role for the taxpayers dollar. If were not making that 251 ratio, and were spending all this money to put a roof over a veterans head, perhaps temporarily, perhaps permanently, but we dont have the wraparound support services, were not getting the greatest bang for taxpayer dollar and were not ensuring we end chronic homelessness, by providing Mental Health care, the day care, the Transportation Services that mr. Martin talked about. You all made an excellent case for us, ensuring theres accountability and oversight for v. A. And d. O. L. And hud, making sure we fulfill that commitment of 251. The issue that mr. Martin alluded to that many of us on this committee have worked on, which is that we have hundreds of thousands of veterans who have an other than Honorable Discharge. What weve been focused on lately is the fact that that precludes them from being able to see a Mental Health care provider, and we have an alarmingly high suicide rate amongst veterans who have bad paper discharges. Were working on that. I think were going to get to greater access. It means these saveterans are ineligible for vash. It makes more of them be homeless. And taxpayer dollars being well spent, we have to expand eligibility to include those who have other than Honorable Discharges. I want to work with my republican colleagues and the v. A. And the secretary on the president on this. Its the right thing to do and we absolutely have to do it. The point many of you brought up about these hud vash dollars being moved to the general fund, that is very alarming. Im very interested in what the v. A. Has to say on this issue. I anticipate that question will come from both sides of this committee. Last couple of points, im really glad, mr. Clancy, that you mentioned combined arms. One of the outstanding veterans sfgs organizations in houston, what makes them exceptional is they take the mindset the veteran is not a victim, but instead has so much to contribute. If we can unleash their potential, the experience, the expertise theyve built in service by connecting them in some cases with the care they need and theyre not currently getting the upside for everyone else in society is unlimited. Im grateful you pointed that out. Ill end with this anecdote. The chairman held a really positive field hearing in lubbock, texas on transitioning Service Members into civilian life successfully. That morning we went to pauls project at grace campus, a homeless center. They said about 75 of their clients have some medical connection to their homelessness. Theyre out of pocket expenses were too great, could no longer pay the mortgage or rent. Or their disability was so significant they could no longer go to work and they found themselves homeless. Several of you mentioned health care as a connection. Id ask mr. Martin, ive got about a minute left, talk about how Significant Health care is as a connection to homelessness, and perhaps how expanding eligibility decreases our Homeless Population . In el paso at the Opportunity Center we do have one distinct advantage. And that is that we have an on site health clinic. Its operated by a separate entity. But that access to medical care is a critical component, as well as Mental Health care because we also have a community as it relates to Mental Health needs overall thats overwhelmed. And so weve got to look at accessibility as we sort of pick it up. In the absence of that, what happens is we see a large number of individuals to use a term thats been used in the past, that selfmedicate through alcohol and drugs. That includes the veteran population. Theres just that lack of trust in the system. Thats one thing i havent heard at this point, especially when we start to get into the older veterans. We have a lot of folks that simply say i dont want anything to do with the v. A. I just want out. And its distrust, disillusionment, whatever the case might be over time. And so that goes back in to, to a certain extent, a cultural transition. Weve talked about it in terms of employment. But we also have to look at it from a social atmosphere as well. Because in many cases they elect to be there. And there is a right to have a choice. Thank you, Ranking Member orourke. And well now yield for five minutes to mr. Bilirakis. I appreciate it, thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I have a couple questions. Stakeholders from our Supportive Services for Veterans Families Program in my district in florida, i represent the tampa bay portions of the tampa bay area, theyve highlighted the need for better coordination between the v. A. And hud, strengthening the continuum of care so the veterans Homeless Populations have the support they need for longterm success. They stress the importance of directing dollars we have provided to the v. A. Towards continuum of care, support. So the program can focus their efforts on prevention and rehabilitation. So the question is for the panel, the entire panel. We can start with mr. Clancy. How would you recommend v. A. , hud and the department of labor, how could they improve their communication with Community Partners, like those each of you are part of . I appreciate your testimony today. Thank you, congressman. In cincinnati we have a Good Relationship with our v. A. Medical center. Were in very good communication with them constantly. I think theres an advantage to flexibility. And i think, as we mentioned before, and so i think i know theres a concern with with the hud vash program, the dollars not being specifically directed to them. Again, in cincinnati, we dont have maybe the needs los angeles has. I think the flexibility of working with the v. A. Medical center is crucial for us. We have a very Good Relationship with them. I will admit this is my third day on the job, so if you dont mind, i would love to submit an answer to you once i get that. Very good, thank you. Youre doing very well. I tell you that much. Yes, please. I think its important that we look at the entire continuum. There has been a tendency to try to find a single fix. Housing first was the answer for a while. But i think its critical that we provide those more intensive services that are now done through the grand per diem program at the beginning so that veterans coming in off the street are getting the services they need, whether it be Mental Health, Substance Abuse or education or whatever it may be. And then have a direct connection between those grand per diem programs and all the permanent housing available, not just hud vash, but also the Supportive Housing available through the hud program. And that they cooperate with counties so that the counties are providing a range of services, particularly in regards to Mental Health, and employment that can serve the veterans who are v. A. Eligible and the veterans who are nonv. A. Eligible. All those systems have to Work Together. I had to sort of think a little bit about the response to this question. Because in our reality we have a wonderful working relationship with the v. A. In el paso. We truly do, thats through our gdp program. We have a lot of interaction taking place as we work through that. I think it was a week and a half ago i sat in on a teleconference call the v. A. Hosted with regard to coordinated entry. I think thats one example of what we could use. Were trying to take two systems and having them use the same entry point. If youre not familiar with coordinated entry, its one door in, simply described. Everybody goes through a common assessment process. If they qualify for v. A. , whether its sfvf, hud vash, whatever the case might be, they go direction one. If they dont, they go direction two, which takes you to the hud funding side of the fence. Okay . And so thats the intent to have the two Work Together. Now, the reality is, when you look at direction two, we need to start looking at support services, and that could potentially pull in the department of labor. Because a lot of the employment side of the fence employments one of the keys to sustainability, desired employment, not just an entry level job as you work through it. Youve got to take a look at what the strengths of the individual are, and youve got to get away from you must be job ready, as the underlying premise, and youve got to start working with that individual and develop the skill sets that are needed. And then, too, to be able to provide the coaching thats necessary for sustainability in employment. So, again, it goes back to support services. Agreed. Please. So i think this is a really important question, and i appreciate that you all are asking this. Ill tell you that i look at it from two perspectives. The first is from a top down approach where all the agencies are focusing in on sending coordinated messages and reenforcing the messages of others to grantees. The other to think about is the federal government is the largest vendor of homelessness assistance. If you can insent vise through funding mechanisms. The grand per diem program is moving good that in its current reboot. You also need to look at this from the bottom up and what is in it for providers, and coordinated entry is a great approach. Conferencing and sharing resources and creating a solid system in your community is another thing thats a benefit to a provider and providers should be thinking about and looking at. Thank you very much. I see my time has expired. I yield back, mr. Chairman, submit the rest of the questions for the record. Thank you. You bet, thank you, mr. Bilirakis. We now yield five minutes to mr. Takano. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Peck, i want to begin by thanking you for the tremendous work that u. S. Vets does in my particular district and the wonderful facility being built with the Wraparound Services. So i congratulate you on that work. You mentioned in your testimony that there is not a lot of accountability for v. A. Case management. And that contractor organizations are held to and achieve greater outcomes. You also said the Inspector General study was unable to identify why veterans exited the program. Would a comprehensive study by an entity outside of v. A. Or hud or like gao for example be helpful in understanding the hud vashs efficacy, and where there are still issues in deliverance of services . Absolutely. I think if we can bring transparency to the goals of the program as opposed to what is actually happening would be invaluable. Ive not seen such a study. That oig study that i referred to was specific to the western specific to the california area. So i think a nationwide study would be excellent to make sure that theyre providing that the Service Based on the model which they say its based on, the Housing First. Mr. Chairman, id like to make sure we look into getting such a study ordered. Its about the use of most effective and efficient use of taxpayer resources. If we could work with you on that, id appreciate that, mr. Chairman. Mr. Peck, i want to continue with a line of questioning. In 2016 Riverside County, which i represent, as you know, reached functional zero for veterans homelessness. But just because there has been some progress in our area, i know that next door in Los Angeles County, which is got a much larger population, theyve experienced an uptick, and they have the largest number of homeless. We will definitely, i think, suffer if we dont, in my area, if we dont address whats going on in los angeles. And it doesnt mean we can let up our efforts just because we in Riverside County have achieved functional zero. A continued and coordinated multiagency strategy is needed to end veteran homelessness. Weve seen in california the number of Homeless Veterans rise by 20 last year in distinction to whats happened in Riverside County. Now, as Service Providers, as a Service Provider, do you feel that the v. A. Remains committed to ending veteran homelessness . I should hope so. I think the directors that we deal with at loma linda and in los angeles are committed to this effort. It frightens me when people talk about the functional end of homelessness. It feels like the problem has been solved. And we have actually experienced, talking to funders, who say isnt that Problem Solved . And it is not. Well, yeah. So heres my thing. I realize at loma linda and l. A. Directors you may feel the support of. But has the secretarys decision to remove the elimination of veteran homelessness from his Top Priorities impact the work you do on the ground . It absolutely will impact if those funds are redirected the Homeless Population will go up. Last year while the v. A. Proposed moving money from specific funds to a general purpose fund. How would that have impacted the services you provide to veterans and the number of veterans you serve . It would not only reduce the Case Management we are getting currently from the v. A. , it would allow a number of those hud vouchers to go unused . They cannot be used without the appropriate Case Management. So its overall reduction in service to Homeless Veterans. The hud vash souchers would be unused because we arent doing the Wraparound Services . Yes, the three letters ive submitted with my written testimony indicate that in some cases theyre only using half of the vouchers because the v. A. Cannot commit to providing Case Management to 100 of the vouchers. So theres funding on the table we cant use. Mr. Martin, could you quickly respond to that same question . How would the proposed repurposing of the money affect you on the ground . Well, when youre talking about v. A. Dollars, like i said im in a different world. When i talk about the absence of Case Management, im referring to that Crisis Response system, that safety net, the Emergency Shelter where we have a large number of individuals. Because in our v. A. Funded programs were able to maintain those levels as we work through that. Its a requirement of doing so. Now, when you look at the vash vouchers, i believe we have about 29 is a community. And ive not heard any concerns that have come in from the v. A. In that respect in direct answer to your question. I would ask the rest of the panel to submit an answer to that question i asked in writing later. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you, mr. Takano. Now yield five minutes to ms. Radewagen. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I too want to personally commend the panel for not only appearing today, but for doing this very difficult, challenging work. Youre amazing. Mr. Clancy, your testimony suggests that regional veteran collaboratives are part of the solution to ending veteran homelessness. What are those . And why do you think theyre needed . Thank you, maam. The veteran collaboratives, as we mentioned, not only here in cincinnati with the pvca, but also combined arms in houston as the congressman mentioned, are critical because it enables the community to come together in a collaborative sense to provide the best of services for the veteran. We can combine best practices, different organizations receive different funding, and we can as best we can, move upstream to get those transitioning veterans before they become in crisis mode. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. Thank you, ms. Rad waggen. Now yield to ms. Custer. Thank you very much, its a very informative hearing. Youve taken on kind of a calm tone in what i consider to be a serious change in policy that congress was not consulted about. And i want to make sure that we get a chance to get to the bottom of what the impact is on a daily basis for our veterans. And not just the veterans that are currently in the system, but perhaps more importantly the veterans who are not yet in the system, or as you mentioned have been disillusioned. I wanted to mention nashua, New Hampshire, we have done tremendous work in my district, particularly easter seals, thank you to easter seals, ms. Williams, and to our own harbor homes, a very Effective Program integrating health care and housing services. I had a wonderful story of a man, john, i met who had been living under a bridge with a group of vietnamera veterans. They were, over time, brought in by the social workers. And it turns out part of his problem was a health care issue. He was diabetic and had not been receiving any health care. And when he was housed and got the health care that he needed, come to find out that he had been a middle manager in a company in our area. He had a family that he was estranged from. Over the course of getting the housing and the services he was able to reunite with his family and actually now hes a part of helping other veterans. So my question to you is, are there lessons that can be learned . Ill direct this to ms. Williams, from the programs that have been effective . Particularly weve been talking a lot about los angeles. If you could turn your attention to Rural Communities and what more we need to be doing. And then i think in a bipartisan way we need to take back this discussion from an administration that seems to be turning a blind eye, or turning a shoulder toward those veterans in need and make a decision about funding, fully funding the services that are needed, the Wraparound Services, the health care, the social workers. So ms. Williams, if you could talk about the Lessons Learned, and where we go from here. Thank you so much for the question. And let me speak specifically, first, starting with New Hampshire, that New Hampshire does have many rural areas and with minimal staffing its difficult to reach all the veterans in need and to provide the level and attention they need. Thats the experience were having in New Hampshire. Then secondly what i would say is that there needs to be greater flexibility to meet the unique needs of veterans. I just want to, again, highlight, easter seals support of hr 4451 which is congressman wenstrup and congresswoman brown lees bill, focusing on retention and maintaining jobs and increase employment, and not just any employment, but better jobs is critical. The final thing i would say, which again would tie into what my fellow panelists have discussed, is early access to Case Management. The Community Care coordination is vital. Thats what weve heard. I would just encourage the federal agencies and you all to push for that. That is part of how we achieve success. Could i ask our representative from hud, do you see the continuum of care as part of the mission to address homelessness from a holistics perspective to not only employment, but i want to remind the chair that some of these veterans are 65, 70, 80, employment is not the only solution, and if anyone else wants to add in, i have about a minute left. Id appreciate your comments. Direct answer on that question. When i look at the population that we serve, over 67 are over the age of 50. If i take that up a notch and get you to 65 and older, were looking at 18 . So when we look at our mission under the continuum of care and our Mission Statement states this, we transition those that can and we protect those that cant. Youve got to look at the longterm viability for those not in a position to seek Sustainable Housing through employment. Thats where you look at the different options. Thank you. The other question i have is about workforce. My time is limited. But if you have any comments on workforce, or if you want to submit for the record. I would be more than happy to. I know were piloting a project right now which the local university, ourselves and workforce. Which is based on the premise that anybody can work. But i will submit that in a written format to you. I would be very interested. And with the brief indulgence that veterans be included, both on the training side, but also the workforce for social workers and such. Id be very interested in any thoughts you might have. And the chair is gone, but i wanted to invite him to New Hampshire for a round table on homelessness. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, ms. Custer. Will now yield five minutes to mr. Higgins. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank the Panel Members for attending today. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Members, i would like to suggest we see a future panel addressing this crucial issue that would include d. O. D. Because it occurs to me, as a veteran myself, that our nation invests a great deal of energy and money into training our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines to do their job within the military, largely soldier in todays military chooses his m. O. S. And yet we invest virtually nothing prior to their ets from the military to help them make the transition to civilian life. And all of us know that theres a term in the military called a shorttimer, it seems to me that if our if our energies were invested in coordination with the d. O. D. , to have sort of an ets, ait, advanced individual training, to help that military member be prepared for work. Because these men and women that serve our nation, they lose their uniform, they lose their rank, but they maintain their skill. And yet they enter the civilian world as rookies. You have excellent mechanics leaving the military that dont have an a. S. E. Certification, not qualified to change oil at a dealership. We could fix that if the d. O. D. Would Work Together with the v. A. And the existing entities that help post ets transitions. We have heavy Equipment Operators operating dozers and cranes and, you know, very significant heavy equipments that are not certified to operate a forklift when they get out. Welding certifications, heavy Truck Driving certifications, nursing and medical profession certifications. All of these excellent skills that are performed by our military members every day across the world. And when they ets from service, they dont have the civilian certifications that are equivalent to their existent skills. So they lose not just their uniform and their rank, but they lose their opportunity to serve their fellow man with the skills that they have learned and excelled at within the military. As a street cop for 12 years, ive had personal interaction with hundreds of Homeless Veterans. And i can tell you that theres sort of an underground culture in existence. And id like a couple of you to address this. We say we have 40,000 Homeless Veterans. We have 184,000 veterans incarcerated in america. At an average cost of a conservative average cost of 32,000 a year per veteran, thats 6 billion. So theres a culture that a veteran, because the very nature of a military veteran is independent and strong and mission oriented. They dont expect to be bantered about busy civilian housing directors and people of that ilk. So many veterans house themselves in jails. Theyll commit theyre smart. Theyll commit a misdemeanor crime that requires incarceration. They wont make their bond. And theyll do three, six months, eight months in jail, in a local jail. Then theyre back on the street. And theyll live on the street for a while until they repeat that cycle. So i would ask you, mr. Peck, and ms. Monet, if the chairman would allow the time, i would ask you to address your consideration regarding a future that we could envision working with d. O. D. To help these military veterans make the transition with the skills that they have in the service to acquire the civilian certification equivalent of their skills so that we dont have this problem. I think youve hit on a very important problem. That transfer once a veteran once a serviceman or woman comes out of the military and hits the street, they do so without appropriate help. The t. A. P. Program is there. Once you get to be a shortterm, you want out of there and you dont necessarily want to talk to anybody. So starting a program well before they get out indicating the possibilities of their possibilities once they get into civilian life, and giving them a connection in the community where they are discharged. So that the v. A. Can contact them and, you know, 90 days later, six months later and say how you doing . Do you have a job . Are you all right . Is your family okay . Just rather than the veteran running out of resources after six months or a year or three years, and being so disconnected and disillusioned that they wont connect with the v. A. So i think that that connection is critical. And we have to find some formal system to make that transition. If mr. Chairman would allow ms. Monet. Go ahead, ms. Monet. Lets make it quick. Were lun running late already. 30 seconds. From our perspective at nchv, one of the most interesting things we do saz an organization is we have a toll free hot line where veterans who are experiencing a housing crisis can call in and say they need help. Weve heard from a good number of young and recently returned vets, im getting ready to get out, i have nowhere to go. I live on base housing and i dont even know how to find an apartment. I dont know what that means. So i think to your point about d. O. D. Getting involved in transition planning, they need to be thinking not only about employment, do you have a houszing plan, somewhere to live when you get out. If you dont, can we connect you with v. A. Or a Community Provider in the area youre going so they can help you out and wrap services around you to get you started off on the right foot. I think to the thing youre talking about with incarceration, any transition planning is important, not only from d. O. D. , but when youre coming out of jail or prison or coming out of Mental Health treatment or a hospital. I think folks need to be cognizant that big Life Transitions are points that are theyre points of vulnerability where we could be doing more for services. Thank you, ms. Monet. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the indulgence. You bet, mr. Higgins. Now we yield five minutes to mr. Correa. I wanted to first of all thank or veterans for your service to our country and wanted to echo comments made by colleagues regarding the redirection of funds without properly notifying congress. A couple questions. Im from california. The question im getting asked by a lot of my veterans is, what impact would cannabis use by veterans have on their eligibility to access the various programs, the services that you offer . How are they affected in terms of their eligibility . Thats a tricky one. I know the v. A. Does not allow cannabis use. There are some verifiable medical uses for marijuana. Its it is a tricky area because so many of the veterans we have in our housing have Substance Abuse issues, addiction issues. So we have an issue of opioid use abuse, then we have right now the issue of the famous cold memo that has been essentially repudiated by our attorney general, then in the state of california we do have medical cannabis use. Theres a doctor, patient relationship. Theres recommendations made by physicians to their patients for use of cannabis. So we have what we have is a conflict of laws here, state versus federal. And my veterans are asking me whats going to happen if i medicate with cannabis, will i have be affected in terms of my benefits from the v. A. . And ive gotten conflicting answers. And im asking you here publicly because i need to give my vets an answer. If you dont have the answer now, can i ask you to please submit your answers to me in writing . I will do. I will the best you can given the yes. Youre right, there is a conflict between state and federal, and where there is verifiable medical benefit, that should be allowed. So ill ask all of our commissions and get back to you. Mr. Peck, you talked about more efficient use of funds, and unused grant programs, turning them into vouchers. Im out of orange county. We have some great folks providing great Services Like the illumination foundation, a group thats about 10 or 15 years old. Gets homeless folks, gets them into converted motels, you know, gets them on their feet, Wraparound Services. Is that the kind of services youre talking about in terms of also aiding veterans, in terms of getting them back on their feet . Absolutely. Nonprofits really have extensive outreach into the communities, much more so than the v. A. I say that because the only limitation these folks have is resources. Yes, absolutely, yeah, im a big proponent for the v. A. To contract. I think those dollars would be much more efficient, and wed reach more veterans. Let me the few seconds i have left, i want to follow up on wenstrups and higgins comments about following up with veterans after they take off the uniform in a meaningful way. Its one thing to give them a survey when you leave. Some of these vets may be in many ways lacking of the skills they need to survive out there, given the invisible wounds they have once they leave the service to our country. So do we have a system to meaningfully follow up with them, six months, a year, two years out, other than a surveyor fill out the card is send it in. There is no such system. A lot of us are advocating they have to opt out rather than opt into a program to allow the v. A. To contact them. Given that we want to do whats best for the veterans, we want to figure out the best way to use taxpayer dollars, id rather just follow up with them the best we can, six months out, one year, five years later. As mr. Higgins said we have too many of our veterans in jail today. Thats just theres no excuse for that. 90day followup, sixmonth followup would save a lot of lives, for sure. How can we do that . What do we need i think my fellow marine secretary mattis would support that. Id love for people to talk to him about that. What do we need to get moving congressman, if i may, any vet han that comes through our processing, does get follow up, to make sure everything is going well and the veteran is still squared away. Thank you, mr. Chairman, i yield. Thank you, mr. Correa. We now yield five minutes to the gentleman from indiana, mr. Banks. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thanks to each of you once again for the important work you do. Mr. Chairman thanks for this incredibly important venue today to talk about this important issue. Ms. Monet, i wonder if you could talk more about the Housing First model. You said a minute ago, i thought quite profoundly, that Housing First should not ever mean housing only. Multiple times the v. A. Has reiterated its support for Housing First. I hear from leaders in my district who serve Homeless Veterans that it doesnt provide the best option, that it might put a roof over a veterans head, but it doesnt get to the underlying problem, such as drug addiction. Could you elaborate on that . What you mean by that, and talk more about the Housing First, and why it might fall short in those cases . Absolutely. Thats a wonderful question. Thank you for that, sir. Housing first really means youre indeed putting someone in houszing first. Then youre following up and offering services. Youre saying hey, i see you have this issue. Can we help you address your diabetes or your opioid use, or youre unploimd . Do you need a job . Lets get you Employment Services. Houszing first, its important to make the distinct that your ability to stay in the housing is not predicated on the requirement to access services. Youre not requiring them to go to aa meetings in 90 meetings, not requiring them to jump through hoops to stay in housing. What youre really doing is enticing them into the services while theyre in housing. Research has the shown that when a person is in housing they can better address the other issues theyre facing. Very good. Now, as a segue from that, mr. Peck, you talked a bit ago about the importance of gpd up front. And i wonder if you could talk more about that, what you mean, and why that would be important. The Case Management is more robust in the grand per diem programs which gives us the opportunity to offer them the rehabilitation that many of them need and are asking for. While Housing First is a good model, its only one avenue. And i think a number of them would welcome the opportunity to get into a program that could provide the Mental Health, the Substance Abuse treatment, the education, Educational Opportunities that a gpd program can offer, which a Housing First Permanent Housing Program cannot. Theres simply not the robustness of the Case Management assistance. Do you sense that the vachld v. A. Is continuing to support the gpd up front . The posture of the v. A. From your perspective . They have supported. Thankfully theyve reduced it somewhat with a few thousand beds they have reduced and those beds may not have been well utilized. Theyve redesigned the program. To make it more proactive. You have to state what kind of service youre going to provide. They really are focusing on outcomes, and the outcomes largely are getting those veterans into permanent housing. Whether through the income they earn through employment, or disability income. So they are now, i think, measuring that Program Better than they were before. Youre optimist about the way forward . Youre not concerned about those changes . Those are good changes, yes, absolutely, and i think they will continue to support that. Im hoping they will. Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate once again all you do. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Banks. And finally we now yield to mr. Peters five minutes for questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I thank the leadership for holding this hearing. For allowing me to participate. Even though this isnt my subcommittee. I represent san diego, the home of a tremendous veterans population. Because of that the nature of our Homeless Population, its heavy on veterans. We have a lot of programs in san diego that are community based. We think are doing well. But obviously they depend so heavily on the federal participation. So let me turn to a couple observations, and then ask a couple questions. First of all, we are all very supportive of the interests of the secretary in suicide veteran suicide. We dont want to come at the extens of housing because the two are so related. Weve heard from you all that suicide rates among the Homeless Veterans are much higher. So keeping them housed, and off the streets, is, nevin effect, t of the suicide battle as well. We urge the secretary to keep that in mind as he talks about where to spend money. The other observation, the importance of the department of defense in this. The most Cost Effective expenditure of american taxpayer money is to really prepare transitioning vets to come out and be productive, be employed, have a plan. And i think that we may want to ask more of the department of defense to take that on as one of their task. They train great warriors, train them to have the skills the chairman had, but not necessarily trained to deal withwith civilian life in the way they could be and should be at the time of transition. Mr. Clancy as talked about the efforts hes done in his area on that. I commend that. Maybe you know of 0800 in san diego, a transitioning program that tries to do the same thing. Go on the base at the time of transition, introduce the community at that point so that when people walk off the base as civilians, theyre not strangers to that. Mr. Clancy . Absolutely, san diego has a great program. Its in my written testimony, but i didnt mention it today. The San Diego Veteran Coalition and military family collaborative is a group we have Conference Calls with, best practices, what are they doing thats successful, what are we doing thats successful . There are a number of collaboratives around the country that are working together to, again, learn from each other and learn how to best prepare the veteran for separation from the military. Terrific. I think its worth observing that even if the v. A. And Veterans Committee were functioning at 100 , we couldnt replace the importance of community involvement. Thats something we cant do as a government. Not every solution that comes from the government. Community involvement has been so helpful. In the time i have, though, the question i wanted to ask was about vouchers. In san diego we get reports that theres a large number of vouchers that arent used. Maybe, mr. Peck, you could address how that is possible, why does that happen . And maybe what could we do to make sure the resources we do have are being employed to make sure veterans have housing . In some instances, unfortunately, its due to high housing costs. Ive worked closely with the vvsd down there, very good program. So some landlords are not taking those vouchers. I know in los angeles 500 veterans are Walking Around with vouchers in hand that cannot find housing. So they stay in bridge programs like the ones we run, and others. So creating the Affordable Housing, talking with landlords is critical to be able to get those veterans into the into their housing. And additionally a shortage of v. A. Social workers is contributing to the those vouchers not being used. So the landlord, the work with landlords is a more local issue. Yes. These it is critical that theres a local plan for each of these federal issues. Right. As you said, the communitybased nonprofits are the ones that know and are familiar with the community. As a federal lawmaker, what would you suggest i do to see that more vouchers were used in san diego given our high housing costs, mr. Peck . I would two things need to be done. Check with the v. A. To make sure that they are providing the appropriate number of case managers. And talk with the city who can talk to the landlords which is whats happening in los angeles in an effort to get them to look more closely with the vouchers and we have housing locators to reach out to those railroads. We have to make sure that support system is provided. Thank you, mr. Peters. I would like to say as the chair of the subcommittee for Economic Opportunity, i associate myself with much of what you said and what my colleagues on both sides have said which is what i love the most about this committee. Somehow when you walk through the doors and you are thinking about the customer which is the veteran, you just put everything aside and do everything you can to put america and the veterans first. I appreciate the candor and responses to our veterans and our country in that regard. One final comment before we conclude. As an Economic Committee that oversees the program and the comments were made repeatedly about sort of the ounce of prevention and transition. The assessment of the veteran or the service man or woman coming out of active duty into civilian life and all that we do to invest and time and resources to prepare these good americans to defend United States and our freedom and our allies. All that we do to prepare them to be warriors and in my opinion how little we invest to transition them so that we dont need much of your service. On the front end, we made it as much of a priority to transition and assimilate them back into civilian and to happen the skills we learn skptd responsibilities that they had and rehabilitated where there is trauma and their experiences. I hope in the next year and this is something i have made known to my colleagues who are staffing the committee, i want reform of the program to be of the first and foremost priority for our committee. After some of the hearings we had on tap, we know how much money we spent. We dont know what outcomes and we dont have much to any outcome that they are doing a good job and we can do a lot better. I hope you can commit to transforming the program to really work on the front end and so we have less drug addiction and less suicide. Less homelessness and joblessness from our hero account of a program that actually works. Maybe it is working. I dont know. There wasnt much data to suggest it was. Thank you, guys. You are dismissed and we would ask that the second panel come and join us so i can introduce and you we can get on with the second panel and the discussion. In the interest of time, im going go ahead and make the introductions of our panelists. Joining us now this afternoon is matt miller and the secretary for the veterans and Training Service for the u. S. Department of labor and we have alongside of him, dominique blum, the general assistant secretary for the u. S. Department of housing and urban development. Also dr. Thomas lynch, the deputy under secretary for health and clinical veterans for the u. S. Department of veterans affaired who is accompanied by dr. Keith harris, the director for the homeless office. We thank you for joining us. Mr. Miller, lets start with you. You have five minutes for opening remarks. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ranks members of brownlee and o rourke and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you very much for providing statements on veteran homelessness. As a former chief of staff in this body i want to recognize you and Committee Staff for tireless efforts to make sure you fulfill obligations for veterans and their families. My name is matt miller and im the deputy at the veterans employment and Training Service for vets. Im also the departments representative on the u. S. Intern agency on homelessness. Secretary acosta stands behind our Service Members and veterans. He has a clear goal that will assist our veterans in finding and keeping good jobs. For the department, one veteran experiencing homelessness is one too many. We look forward to working with the subcommittees and those who served with the employment support, assistance and opportunities they deserve to succeed in civilian workforce. Our partnerships extend vetss ability to achieve its mission and bring all of dols resources to bear for americas veterans. One important component is the Homeless Veterans reintegration which provides grands to assist and e integrating Homeless Veterans into meaningful employment. They provide wrap around services to link Homeless Veterans with health care and housing opportunities provided by our partners. While hvrp is like a canoe at the va and hud offer, it serves a Critical Mission in ending homelessness among veterans. Each participant receives customized employment and Training Service such as occupational classroom and on the job training to address his or her specific barriers to employment. The hvrp program succeeds because of the hard work and the grantees like u. S. Vets, but also because of the collaborative efforts of our government partners at the federal and state levels. Two weeks ago, i had the humbling experience of touring one of the locations along skid row in los angeles, california. There i heard about jeremy, an honorably discharged veteran. He began worked with the volunteers of america. His counsellor worked with him to develop a career plan and within four days of enrolling in the program he got a job with the so cal construction President Trump and his wages increaseed from 12 to 14 an hour. Fy 2017, he received an appropriation of 45 million that provided services to over caen,000 Homeless Veterans with a placement rate of 67 and an average salary of 12. 88 an hour. The Fastest Growing segment of the veteran population are women. Hvrp funds are used to serve them along with veterans with families and incarcerated veterans. We also support stand down events where we partner with federal and state agencies, local businesses, and social Service Providers which offer Critical Services to Homeless Veterans. Additionally to assist with the hurricane har ve relief effort, vets offered 53,000 for events in houston, texas serving a total of 756 Homeless Veterans. I would be remissed if i didnt take this opportunity to highlight a significant challenge we face. The statutory definition of homeless vet rans. If jeremy had first received permanent housing from one of the counter parts at 11 time 59 p. M. On monday, he would not be eligible to apply for the programs at 12 01 on tuesday. And thus not able to take advantage of our Employment Services. Studies have shown that barriers to employment still exist after immediate Housing Needs are met and individuals still run a risk of becoming homeless again. Vets 2016 annual report to Congress Proposes a solution to this and i would like to further discuss how we can rectify this problem. The chairman, Ranking Members and distinguished members of the subcommittee, the department of labor is committed to the goal of ending veteran homelessness and look forward to working with you, our federal papers in our council to ensure the efforts. This concludes my statement. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Im happy to answer any questions you may have at this time. Were yield five minutes to miss blum. Thank you. Good afternoon. Good afternoon to you, chairman arington and Ranking Member brownlee and o rourke and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for this opportunity to discuss the efforts of housing and urban development and our federal partners forrenting veterans homelessness. I am dominique blum, for the office of public and indian housing at hud. My office is responsible for the hud dash program. Hud is committed to working to the goal of ending veterans homelessness by maximizing our collective resources. We made remarkable progress. Huds general Homeless Programs run by huds office of Community Planning and development provide about 2. 4 billion annually to help homelessness through permanent support of housing. 97 million of these funds or approximately 17,000 veterans through the Continuous Care Program including 10,000 veterans with disabilityings. Thousand says more are served with rapid housing and Emergency Shelter and other assistance. My officer administers the program and provide from hud with Case Management in Clinical Services provided by the va. This program is one of the most effective tools at reducing veterans homelessness. Since 2008, over 131,000 veterans and their families have used a voucher to move into stable housing and as of september over 77,000 veterans were housed through hud. Shortly hud will be awarding 5,500 new hud vouchers with the additional 40 million appropriated last year. Although we have seen incredible results through the program, we continue to make changes to address local needs. First, hud is changing the distribution of Homeless Veterans between hud and the va plan to develop a process to recapture unused hud vouchers and reallocate to high need cities. Second, we have awarded 4700 vouchers as projectbased allowing for the development of Affordable Housing in high cost areas. Third, we are encourage authorities to project base their existing hud vouchers made easier through the housing opportunity through the modernization act of 2016. These efforts demonstrate our commitment to optimizing the effectiveness of hud while allowing for local flexibility in addressing homeless veteran population. Building on the success, congress a proep ri 8ed 5. 9 million in 2015 for the tribal Pilot Program. To begin addressing homelessness in indian country. As of last week, 299 native American Veterans were receiving Case Management and of those 234 were housed under the program. One of the Lessons Learned from the demonstration in the indian Housing Needs study is that homelessness looks different in indian country. As tribes face short ajs, close family ties often result in overcrowding as families live with other families. The tribal hud program has become instrumental in getting entire families into appropriately sized homes. When Army Infantry specialist jeremiah miguel returned to his reservation in arizona, he found himself sharing with his girlfriend and six children. His family now lives in a four bedroom apartment. While most communities showed a decline in veteran homelessness, sharp increases were in a few areas with extremely high housing cost needs that led to the overall increase. Based on the count, it increased by 1. 5 between 2016 and 17. The larger story sheer that veterans homelessness declined by historic 46 since 2010 and the results are largely due to the success of the hud program. Perhaps one of the best examples. On homelessness, they implemented a struck tower administer the programs and policies related to hud veterans homelessness. We jointly created a set of standards to evaluate if they ended homelessness and since 2014, more than 880 state and local officials have set the goal of ending veterans homelessness and as of january 11th, 60 communities across 30 states have achieved this goal. This is an amazing accomplishment. In conclusion, we must continue to find ways of the effectiveness and to continue to work collaboratively to bring housing and Health Resources to veterans while assisting communities and utilizing all available homelessness assistance resource. Thank you very much for facilitating this work and i welcome any questions you may have. Thank you, miss blum. You have five minutes. Thank you. Good afternoon, chairman. And Ranking Members and members of the subcommittees. I appreciate the opportunity to ending homelessness among veterans. I am accompanied by the director of Clinical Operations for vas homeless operations. Let me state that the va remains committed to ending veteran homelessness and working in close collaboration to ensure that veterans have permanent Sustainable Housing with access to High Quality Health Care and other Supportive Services. Va and the hud and counsel on homelessness have developed systematic protocols for ending veteran homelessness. That includes the identification of all veterans experiencing homelessness and ability to provide shelter immediately and the capacity to help veterans twistly move into permanent housing. The number of veterans experiencing homelessness in the United States declined by nearly one half since 2010. This is an unprecedented decline both as it relates to ending homelessness in this country and in comparison to other Public Health efforts. To dates 60 communities across 30 states have achieved the goal of ending veteran homelessness. Over 600,000 veterans and family members have been assures housing through targeted vouchers and vas Homeless Programs. Va increased the number of Services Available to veterans and focus on housing, clinical care, and social services as well as resources aimed at preventing homelessness. Overall the message is positive and important. Communities in partnership with va are preventing and reducing veteran homelessness. Recently va proposed a reallocation of specific purpose to general purpose funding. This shift included funding in support of the program. The goal was to give facilities greater flexibility in the effective use of their budget to reduce homelessness, reflecting local variations in the use of resource. This unfortunately resulted in unnecessary confusion. Please be assured that our commitment to veteran homelessness remains unchanged. There will be no change in funding to support our Homeless Programs until we solicit further input from the Congressional Colleagues and the stakeholders and local va leaders. Over the next several months, va will engage in a formal interagency process to solicit infought show that any realignment of funds best supports our veterans. The way forward is to implement the interagency Strategic Plan to end veteran homelessness. Important objectives include enhancing services for Homeless Veterans struggling with suicide risk and Substance Abuse. Addressing high need communities by recapturing and reallocating available resources. Emphasizing out comes and coordinate an effort in local communities. To expand on these objectives, 57 of veteran who is are at risk of homelessness or are currently homeless have a Mental Health diagnosis and 46 have a Substance Use disorder. We are work closely with Suicide Prevention offices to respond to the clinical priorities. Vas efforts must comprehensively be linked to all Community Efforts as well. We heard this in the first panel. One size does not fit all when it comes to ending homelessness. All Va Medical Centers are now required to work with the local communities to develop and operate a coordinated entry center and system for all Homeless Individuals including veterans. This ensures accord nagds of Community Wide services for veterans experiencing homelessness, systemwide air wearness of available housing and services and easy access to an appropriate prioritization for the resource. After six years of consistent progress, huds 2017 point in time count shows a continued decline in homelessness in most communities, but stalled progress in others due largely to high rate and low vacancy rates. We are continuing to promote permanent support of housing and encourage all efforts aimed at financing housing stock. When veterans are at risk for homelessness and the federal, state, and Community Partners must Work Together to rapidly connect them with appropriate assistance to provide housing stnlt. Sustaining the momentum and preserving the gains made so far requires continued attention, collaboration and investment of financial resource. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. My colleague and i are prepared to answer questions. Thank you for your remarks. We will go in reverse order. You are prepared to ask questions . I will defer to you for five mondays. The gentleman from louisiana. Thank you, mr. Chairman and i thank the panelists for appearing today regarding this crucial issue. That challenges our nation. Mr. Miller particularly, i would like to ask you, sir and i thank you and secretary acosta for your dedication to the department of labor. To what extent does the dol and Veterans Affairs coordinate veteran Homeless Programs by job training to prevent unnecessary did you plusative process. Im asking because one of our challenges as we have heard today from both panels is funding and an effort to protect the peoples treasure and provide the needed services for our veterans. We are dutybound to find areas where they have services that may not be necessary. To what extent does the dol and va coordinate programs and are there similar programs operated by dol and va that absolutely need to be operated separately . Would you address that, mr. Miller . Congressman, of course as i stated in my testimony or the statement, we do a collaborative effort very much so with the va, with hud, with fema and other organizations as well as the u. S. Council on homelessness. When a grantee for an hvrp program puts forth an applicati application, one of the things they have to have in an application is a strategy of how they going to work with an agency such as the va and hud and overcome housing and Health Care Needs of the individual. Ee this encourages the Grant Per Diem Program and hud veteran affairs and the hud program mentioned and you mentioned at the federal level and the state and local level at the grantee. Nationwide in both rural and urban settings for 155 grantees all over the country and we urge them to Work Together. Thats what makes our program such a success. The collaborative efforts between the grantees and the partners. Thank you for that very thorough response. I want to shift gears in the remaining time regarding the Service Provide for incarcerated veterans. Its a good program. How is funding and staffing for that . Are you able to touch the local, state, and federal jails where veterans are incarcerated and provide these services . Just give the committee, please, an overview of where are you on that program. We use and provide grants to incarcerated population and we are aware that this could be deplikative of what is in the state and department of corrections within the states. Thats something we take into consideration and provide grants for folks to go in and work with incarcerated veterans. Thank you again for that answer. I yield the balance of my time, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Higgins. We now yield five minutes to mr. Peters. Thank you for calling on this end of the bench. Its like christmas in january. I have questions for miss blum, if i could. You heard the comments i made to the Previous Panel. Are there actions that hud is taking to address the mortgage and disparities in high cost marks with the hud Voucher Program . We have seen in west coast cities, those in california as well as in seattle that there has been an increase in veterans homelessness, largely driven by decrease of Affordable Housing and high costs of living in those cities. We have recognized this and believe that there are some solutions here. First, we believe its housing authorities to be working with their partners to project base their vouchers. The vouchers can be project basing and made easier as a result of the changes congress made in 2016. We will continue to encourage the project basing of the vouchers and the development of Affordable Housing and its available longterm. Secondly we are changing in allowing housing authorities and flexibility for payment standards and they can go above a certain amount that hud generally provides for housing and going above that in the high cost areas. Third, we are also encouraging that housing authorities provide additional landlord outreach. Finding the landlords that will be more willing to serve veterans. I know there is a cap on the projectbased vouchers of 20 . Is that something you consider raising. If not, why not . Just in the last two years, hud now has the flexibility to allow the Housing Authority to go above that cap. They are part of the pool of vouchers that they can do without any need for approval from the department. Thats made at the local level. You can tell me why the hud vouchers expired in 20 days. Have you considered extending that . When we say that it expires, it expires for that particular Service Member. That voucher goes back to the Housing Authority and that Housing Authority once it receives a referral from the va would be able to reissue that voucher. What you are asking, is there a possibility to extend the 120 day period for that particular veteran. We will see if thats possible. There might be a reason to do that. You top the put urgency behind it in a tough market. It may present different circumstances, i dont know. Precisely. You satisfied that local agency are taking advantage of this flexible with project basing vouchers and if not, is there a way we can help them understand the benefit of that . Particularly in l. A. We will have consecentrated efforts ande were taken aback by the increase in the point and time count for veterans homelessness in l. A. We need concentrated outreach in the l. A. Region to talk about targeted ways that we can be increasing the success rate of vouchers there. Project basing is one of those solutions. I appreciate the testimony. Thanks for being here. We want to encourage your continued attention to housing the veterans that we have on the streets and we will look forward to working with you on that. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Peters. We yield five minutes to the subcommittee chair. Dr. Lynch, a question for you. How many veterans are getting oust dod are homeless in the first five years or so . I honestly dont have the answer to that. Do you have a quick estimate . I dont have an estimate, but we have a work group that works with dod, vpa and others looking at the transitioning members and following them down and assessing homeless rates, but we are very early in that process. You are in the process. I think its a key number to figure out. What is the problem here. Why does this occur . It kind of reminds me, you see situations of a child who presents the emergency room every three weeks or so with a cough. You treat the cough and they get a little better. Three weeks later, they are back with the same cough. At some point you want to go into the home and figure out why they are getting the kouchlt you find there is a mold growing or whatever the case may be. This is an Important Information because its current and its now. This goes back to what we want to do or consider doing in the transition process. If the majority of people are homeless in the first three years, why did that happen and what was missing from when they left that we can get them on the right track before they take off the uniform. I hope that this is something and you can affirm this or not, you are definitely trying to track as best you possibly can. Sometimes the numbers are hard to track when they leave. As best you can, i hope thats the process taking place. Can i make a couple of followup statements . It really emphasizes the importance of prevention which is a process our Homeless Program is focusing on now. Two as pekts of that now, second preventing veterans getting into homelessness. I would like to emphasize we initiated two programs focussed on Suicide Prevention, but easily converted if there is an opportunity. One is called concierge for care after they transition and offering them help in terms of completing the enrollment process and offering them the student to schedule an appointment at the va. The president s recent executive order focused on the transitioning Service Member that takes a look at how we begin to provide services to that transitioning Service Member and how we begin to integrate with do dharks came out throughout this hearing. What we are interested in is moving the timeline. Not after the problem exists, but to make sure it doesnt. My question is, do you have walls in front of you from dod or whatever or whatever the case may be. Something we need to fix here. Are there obstacles in your way to achieving that goal of getting as close as you can to the veteran as soon as you can. I think we are in a position now to collaborate with dod and see how we provide services and begin to address problems whether its Suicide Prevention or homelessness. Before we get to the critical position and treat them earlier before they get to homelessness or suicide risk. Can you describe the relationship that is starting to form between va and dod . We have recently recruited within the Suicide Prevention program, the doctor who comes from dod and will help us reach out and collaborate and integrate the programs that both va and dod have. It has been said in your testimony that some communities have zero homelessness. What does it mean for the future . Does that mean we dont need to do anything more in those communities or is this in your opinion a constant light that needs to be on . It gets back to zero homelessness. I dont think we are going to get there. I think its a continuing problem. We have to be on the alert for Homeless Veterans and provide them immediate shelter. Whether thats transsigzal or permanent housing and the wrap around support that keeps them in housing and keeps them from going back to homelessness. I think its an ongoing effort. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I yield five minutes to my Ranking Member. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Doctor lynch, a couple of the witnesses on the Previous Panel including mr. Martin from el paso included Case Management to client ratios way out of whack from best practices. It should be one to 25. He may have one to 200 or 250. Whats the answer to that . Who is responsible and how do we get that back down to a manageable level . You mentioned you ended the answer to the doctor by talking about the importance of wrap around service. How do we followthrough . Whats apparent to me when i listened is that there is no correct answer. There are unique opportunities in every community. Should we be at one to 25 . Is that open for debate . I dont know, congressman. Weed need to understand the community and the veteran. Some veterans may in fact need greater support than other veterans. We dont have a benchmark and i dont know what to measure it against. Give me context. I feel like they made a good case and that improves the likely head that a veteran will transition out of homelessness. You seem to dispute that there may be a benchmark. I dont think i am disputing the Case Management. Trying to put a number on it is a difficult thing. We can never measure it or put the resource. Some veterans need greater support and as veterans become more acclimated to home and employment and the community, they may need less support. I would love a better answer from you and i will submit that for the record and i hope you can get back something we can measure and act upon. We are taking measurement or its different in each case and i dont know that we will get the resources to those of you saying that they dont have what they need to take care of the veterans and improve their chances of escaping homelessness and living to their full potential. I will spich to a different subject. Many mentioned the connection to access to health care. That was a recent announcement by the president and the secretary of the va about improved access to Mental Health care. I want to ask you d that specifically include veteran who is have an other than Honorable Discharge and will that allow those to access the hud Voucher Program which today they cannot . Right now we are aiming to try to focus on every veteran who is transitioning. We can address about 40 because of eligibility. We are going to need to explore the issue of other than honorable and dishonorable and how we address the veterans. There is an opportunity working with hud to give vouchers to veterans with other than Honorable Discharge because we can work with the community to provide the wrap around services. We also i believe have the opportunity to work with ssvf to provide care for veterans who may have receive something other than Honorable Discharge. Will veterans have something other than an Honorable Discharge be eligible for the hud program . I can address that. We have had a partnership to start piloting a program to have a portion of those hud vash vouchers serve other than Honorable Discharge members and this is decided on the local level with the va medical have as well as a continuum of care partner that provides the wrap around services and the Case Management and that came to the local public Housing Authority. We today have two housing authorities and localities that are participating in this pilot and we are hoping to expand it in the future. How many are participating in this Pilot Program . I will be able to get that information back to you after this year. Okay. I appreciate that. Would you mind if dr. Harris commented quickly . Preesht the question about the staffing. I dont believe he was speaking about the hud program and speaking about a 2001 ratio that does not exist in our program. The positions are funded on roughly a model of one to 25. Instead of hiring one gs 12 social worker, they might hire two. El paso at 100 staffing. One of the rare centers that is. Their vouchers are reasonably well utilized as well. The point that i took from that and i will see to the chair that there are not enough resources dedicated to support services that include the funding of the appropriate case manager to client ratio. Its making it harder for those providers to extent Mental Health care and transportation, family care to their clients that in turn helps them to transition out of homelessness. If im using the wrong nomenclature or wrong measure, let me know. I just want to resolve the discrepancy between you saying we have everything fill and john martin saying we are at 1 to 250. There is a break down and would love to find out who is responsible and not to punish the them, but to make sure we get the care in the community where there is a gap. I want to thank the Previous Panel for hanging out. It looks like we will wrap this up soon. The fact that we are all in the same room, maybe we can get together and resolve what the discrepancy is and come up with the solution. I will yield back to the chair. Thank you. I thank the Ranking Member and thats an excellent line of questioning. I will yield five minutes now to the other Ranking Member for the health committee, miss brownlee. Thank you, doctor, for stating on the record that there will be no vash funding transfer to general purpose funds. Can i also just add the correlary that the secretary is committed to getting input not only from our federal partners, but also from our Community Partnersas well and our stakeholders. This program is now 10 years old. Its time that we need to have a critical reevaluation. What i took from the first panel was the fact that there are different ways to manage problems in different communities. We need to hear that. We need to understand it and we need to figure out how we adapt the programs to be more effective. I couldnt agree more and i welcome that interaction with the Community Partners and hope to have the discussion here as well. Thank you for stating that on the record. I think that people were concerned that that was happening today. Anyway, i wanted to ga back and we have been talking about the vash vouchers. I represent a little bit of Los Angeles County, but i represent all of Ventura County. We have the issue of expensive housing. Thats an issue for us. What another issue has been is that our Housing Authority in the city of ventura has been told by the va that the vouchers can only have out standing vouchers. Right now i think the city of ventura is only using 67 of the vouchers that are allocated to them or the funding allocated to them. What the va has been telling them is those vouchers can only go to chronically Homeless Veterans. And, you know, i want to know whether thats true or not. If it is true, to be chronically homeless, you have to be out on the street for a long period of time. Its almost like you have to be out there for a year before you can qualify to be chronically homeless based on my understanding of that definition. Could you speak to that . Im going to ask dr. Harris to speak for va. Sure. Unlike the last question, we concur on the numbers. 70 utilization. Its clear utilization is low in Ventura County because of lower staffing than we would like. There is efforts to recruit for that. In terms of the question about chronic homelessness, it is true that hud vash is targeted to the Homeless Population that needs that intensive support. It is not true that vouchers can only be allocated or given to chronically homeless. Thats a message we need to correct and we will. We dont have a Medical Center in the county of ventura. Sorry. Greater l. A. Very good. Okay. Very good. Very good. I think clearing that up will be very, very helpful. And i do applaud what you are talking about in terms of using the vouchers or unused vouchers for projectbased projects as well as high need areas. I think that providing that flexibility is very good, but i want to make sure that in a county like Ventura County, they can utilize their vouchers because the need is there before they would give up the vouchers to another area. I wanted to followup on mr. Peterss line of questioning with the projectbased opportunities. He was saying that its capped at 20 , but you say that is eliminated. So a local Housing Authority, local government can decide no, we want to use all of our vouchers for projectbased . Housing authorities can use all of their hud vash vouchers for project basing. There is no longer a cap on that measure. And that information is out to housing authorities across the country . We believe it is, but if you have specific instances where you believe we havent communicated that, we are ready to enforce. Its the first i heard it today so we will check in with the housing authorities to see if they understand that. In terms of homelessness and high cost areas, has there been any conversations about raising the level of the vouchers so it can be competitive in these expensive market places . We have been talking about that. We allow housing authorities to go up to 110 of the payment standard and we are housing authorities that believe we need more flexibility. We will consider that on a case by case basis and i think housing authorities in these high need, high cost areas would be able to make a compelling argument for that. Is there anything new coming forward in terms of addressing suicide, but particularly for female veteran suicide which we know is 20 times higher than the rate of suicide. Excuse me. The suicide rate amongst women vat rans is exponentially higher than suicides amongst civilian women. Is there anything new in terms of trying to address homelessness for women and certainly homelessness for women and their children. Any new opportunities . I know i have a bill, there other bills out there, but is hud looking at other opportunities . So, at this point the department hasnt targeted an additional population specifically to focus on and our current areas of focus dont include Women Veterans at this point. But just recently there had been conversations within hud about trying to look to see what kinds of resources we could potentially dedicate for female veterans. Thank you. Do you have any comments . I would add that va is in the process of really reengineering a Suicide Prevention program. Trying to continue our emphasis on those at immediate risk and trying to move a little further to the left to understand the high risk groups and women certainly would be included in the high risk groups as are homelessness and the goal is to begin to focus outreach to the groups that could potentially become at risk for suicide overtime. So i think yes, va is beginning to look at this and they are beginning to look at it in terms of targeted populations. Very good. Im over my time again. Apologize and yield back. Thank the gentle lady for her questions. Mr. Lynch, as we heard from Service Providers early this morning. The hud program is very successful at housing veterans and giving them the support services they need. In communities across the country including mine, the hud vash program is helping veterans rebuild their lives. My voll eeg from pennsylvania, a representative boyle has a bill to improve oversight of hud vash contracts. Its a straight forward bill that requires the va to give notice to congress before a contract expires to help prevent lapses and services for veterans. Are you familiar with this bill . Only vaguely having heard about it in this morning. Va looks forward to reviewing that bill and to providing feedback, but we dont have specific positions right now. Just can you tell me as to the core intent of the bill, do you agree congressional notification is a straight forward fix to help reduce lapse in services for veterans . Without having looked at the whole bill, congressman, im reluctant to comment. Im not asking to you degree agree with the whole bill, but a timely notification to congress that the program could lapse or funding would lapse and the oversight role is enabled here. Would submit that i think its always important to communicate with our Congressional Colleagues, particularly with issues that arise in their district. Well, with regard to Homeless Services that are about to lapse. That are about to expire. Shouldnt Congress Know about that . Shouldnt congress be informed that hey, this program is about to end or run out of funding here. Shouldnt we be notified about that . I guess im trying to understand, does this relate to the review that recently occurred of some of our Homeless Programs and the fact that maybe i shouldnt say funding, but it requires notice to congress before a contract expires to help prevent lapses in service to veterans. Its about a contract expiring. Not funding, but a contract expiring with a provider. At this point i guess im going to have to defer and say until we have had a further chance to look at the bill, i will reserve my opinion at this time. Well, thank you. Let me move on to another question. In october of 2013, the va identified approximately 168,000 enrolled veterans with an hcv diagnosis and given the diagnosis, given the advancements in hep c treatments as of march 2017, va has been able to treat more than 84,000 veterans. While the va continues to work through the list of known vetera veterans, what is the va doing to identify the untreated pool that may exist, specifically at risk Homeless Veterans . We are actively working in the communities with our partners to try to encourage veterans to come forward for testing. This is our current emphasis right now to try to increase outreach to identify the veteran who is havent come forward to be identified. Well, thank you. I assume that is adequate resources to try to find the veterans . We are successfully partner to have that outreach in the community. The secretary laid out his top five priorities for the va. These included one, greater choice, two, modernizing the system, three strengthening foundational service, timeliness of services and Suicide Prevention. Of note is the fact that homelessness is missing. Since late 2009, va secretaries meat homelessness a priority and as a result they have been cut nearly in half. In 2017, huds annual survey found that vet homelessness expanded over 2016 figures. Do you believe agencies downgradeing for the Top Priorities is having a direct impact on the ability to help this at risk population . I dont believe the agency downgraded the emphasis on homelessness, congressman. We continue to have a strong echl sois identifying and treating our Homeless Veterans. Even as veteran homelessness has increased 1. 5 over 2016 figures and can you say that with a straight face to me . Yes, i can, sir. 1. 5 over the 2016 figures. The facts contradict what you saying to me. There have been circumstances that relate to high rent and the decrease of housing that we are working on and va continues to be commitment committed to the Homeless Program and not ending, but addressing homelessness among the veterans, yes, i do, congressman. I would say that the statistics show otherwise and i havent im not satisfied with your answer, sir. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Takano. Are there any other followup questions for my colleagues. I will take a we minutes and followup with some questions. You mentioned, dr. Lynch, the term permanent housing. Explain what that means. Right now there is two options when we house veterans and i may ask dr. Harris to basically expand on this a little bit. There is a process by which we put a veteran into transitional housing, surround him with Supportive Services and attempt to move him into permanent housing on a longterm basis. There is another model where we try to move into a permanent housing situation and wrap the services around him at that time. Im going to ask you the same question i asked your partners. Your Community Partners. What is success when it comes to addressing homelessness and the veteran community . I think success can be defined as identifying a home for veterans, number one. Putting the services in place to keep that veteran in a home and trying to find employment to make that veteran selfsufficient moving forward and finally i think having an aggressive prevention strategy that keeps veterans in the home and prevents new veterans from entering homelessness. I think thats wellarticulated, the stages of success and ultimately the outcome seems there is a self sustainability and self sufficiency. What is the rate of success with respect to the ultimate outcome, desired out come for everybody i have listened to in this discussion which is self sustainability of the veteran . Would you like to give an answer to that . You have better numbers than i might be able to give. If im following your question, are you asking for a percentage that it is housed without a subsidy . Exactly. You identified this person as homeless, this veteran. You have done this necessary wrap around services to stabilize or he habilitate and transitioned them through temporary assistance and now they are completely selfsufficient. Its an incredibly important question as we look at the longterm stability. There is a million ways we can go with that. Let me cover a couple. Just give me one. If you look at the flam is the largest of our transitional housing programs by far. Two thirds of the veterans that exit to permanent housing do so with no subsidy. Without a rapid reHousing Assistance. Thats incredibly important. Thats one of the providers on bout. The importance of employment. That is one place where we are seeing independence. Which are program is that . Grant and per diem. There are success through these programs that are not requires subsidy. Could you give me the same ultimate out come measurement for all the programs . Not oust top of my head, but we could get that. I would like for to you submit to the committee the out come of self sufficiency once you identified a homeless veteran and had them me trick ult through whatever program you have that you are responsible for. If i could add one piece. Im interpreting this as primarily a question about employment. It may not be entirely that. Employment is not a goal and not a feasible goal for everybody we serve. About a 30 of the veterans are disabled at the point of assessment. In we add in retired or volunteers of students, that number gets up much higher. Maybe the way to do it is those that are able to be selfsufficient, what is our success rate. I recognize there are situations where there are none. Roughly half exiting our employment who are able and searching for and do obtain employment. Thats a sizable chunk and we would like it to be higher. What are the accountability and im not picking on anybody. I just think we have to define success. We have to measure that and then to know which of the 20 some ought prograodd programs are work. Im not against spending more money if a program is worked towards the desired out come to get veterans the help they need in self sufficiency. But in addition those things, and the right partners, i do think at least for me those who are closest to the problem are going to be best able to solve that and i put a lot of faith in the Community Partners in regard to these programs and the programs success. Another driver in success of Effective Programs and services would be accountability. Thats the accountability of the panel that preceded you all. Thats the accountability of the veteran and what they are asked to do and eligibility whether its time limitations or work requirements or whatever it is. Can you talk about the Accountability Measures with respect to the key stakeholders. Our veteran and our Community Partners and providers. I will start with you and go down the line and i will wrap up. Mr. Chairman, thank you. With hvrp program, there is accountability built in. We monitor grantees on a regular basis and subject them to criteria and if they dont meet the criteria, we set them up on an action plan, corrective action plan to make sure that we work with them. That we partner with other folks to work with them and to make sure that they deliver the services that are needed to the c specification of the grant that we give them to. We dont measure homelessness as much as how many people get a job. So for the secretary, he talks about jobs, jobs, jobs, and that would be our goal. The basics goal of the department of labor is making sure veterans homelessness is rare, nonreoccuring and brief. And over 60 job placement is what i understand. Yes, sir. Thats remarkable. I must say that i was blown away by that statistic. Id like to drill down at another time, but if thats, in fact, the success rate, then i think weve identified at least one program thats that we might want to make even greater investment in. Ultimately you cant sustain a home if you dont have a job. So kudos to you guys if, again, that thank you. Success measure is accurate. I dont have any reason to believe its not. Ms. Blom . Accountability . Is it there. Do you believe its there sufficiently in your programs . We hold our housing authorities accountable for the outization of the vash vouchers. Nationwide, we have an 88 utilization rate. Which means it is actually being used to house veterans. Another 5 of funding going up now to 93 of all the funding available is in the hands of veterans but not yet in the form of housing for them. These are veterans that are searching for housing. So we do believe a 93 success rate is very good in the program. Of course we want to see that tick up, particularly in the highcost areas such as l. A. And seattle. When you say 93 success rate, what is that measure again . What its the measurement of funding that is being expended to house veterans. So today thats 88 of all funding that the department has dedicated to the hudvash program is being used to house veterans, and as a result of that we have 77,000 veterans that are currently housed. Another 5 of that funding is in the hands of veterans to be able to search for a house so that they can live in stable environments. Do you know of the 93 that you give assistance to for housing how many of those individuals move off of federal assistance . Who can sustain their own housing. So today we rely on the v. A. For those types of statistics. The v. A. , as i understand, tracks exits of vash vouchers, either as positive, neutral or a negative outcome as a result of ending their participation in the vash program. Okay. Dr. Lynch, you get the last word. Pretty much what ms. Blom said. Were tracking how many veterans successfully are housed following involvement in our programs. We track how many do not get housed. And also importantly, we track how many fall back into homelessness. And these are solid numbers and were able to track those for our programs across the country. And one last question, if my colleagues will indulge me here. Just kind of a rapid round closure and well start on this end and mr. Mill you close us out. What is not everybody comes putting their best foot and presentation forward, and i appreciate that. I bet there is success, some may be more wildly successful than others, but i just have to believe there is something that is not working, and so im a continual improvement guy myself. I can tell you, there are a lot of things not working in my own operation id like to fix and am working on. So can you tell me whats not working about your program where we can help you. If we cant help you, just tell me that youre working on it to a greater avail for our veterans. Dr. Harris would like to start. Real quickly. Ten seconds. Sure. I think the biggest one is a lack of prevention. I think were seeing too many people falling into homelessness. Its not a failure of the homeless system, its a broader failure of the entire societal system and we need to go up further than we have. I would say very briefly that i think our greatest opportunity is to look at how we can partner more effectively, particularly with the community. Learn from their experience and incorporate that into our program overall. Excellent. Ms. Blom . Ill focus my remarks on tribal hudvash. There was a senate bill that was introduced, senate 1333 that would permanently authorize the tribal hudvash program that would help communities to be able to project base those vouchers and, again, produce stable housing for veterans long term in indian country. Thank you, ms. Blom. Final word. One of the things we would like to work with you on is the technical amendment to the term homeless veteran to include recently housed. We estimate that if that were changed, we would be able to serve 10,000 more veterans. Excellent. Homeless veterans. Okay. God bless you guys. Thanks for coming. If there are no further questions then the panels now excused. I ask unanimous consent that all members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous material. Without objection, so ordered. This hearing is now adjourned. This weekend on American History tv on cspan3, saturday at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on lectures in history university of North Carolina at chapel hill professor Molly Werthen on 20th century fundamentalism and the origins and growth of pentacostalism. Fundamentalist are conservative protestants who militantly opposed, militantly opposed, the militantance is important. New ideas about the bible, science and society. And at 10 00 p. M. Eastern on real america, the 1989 documentary island of hope, island of tears. Over 12 million men, women and children passed this way. Passed through rooms and coordinators haunted with a special stillness which remains only in places once noisy with human life. Here they bought tickets for 1,000 places in america. Here they demonstrated their savings for dollars. Here they sang their First American songs, experienced their First American christmas and hanukkah. Here they waited to be given permission to pass over the new land. Sunday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern, an interview for the west point center for oral history with katherine westmoreland, wife of army general william westmoreland, who commanded u. S. Forces in vietnam. My main work was red cross and i did i really worked almost every day i worked in the vietnamese hospital. Mmmhmm. And the our hospital and then i work to nha trang once a week. Okay. To do red cross work. Watch American History tv everybody weekend on cspan3. The House Homeland Security subcommittee on counterterrorism held a hearing recently on transnational gangs. Witnesses from the fbi, immigration and Customs Enforcement and the state department testified about how their agencies share information with each other and their overseas counterparts. Good morning. The committee on Homeland Security subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence will come to order. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony from the fbi, the department of Homeland Security and the department of state on federal coo