Democracy. Thanks to cspan for being here. We are doing things a little differently today because of cspan being here which means i will say a little more about what the Kinder Institute is so for the tv audience. Founded in 2014 the Kinder Institute is a joint project with the university of missouri Political Science and history departments in cooperation with other scholars across campus. It is dedicated to research, teaching and Community Engagement on the subject of american political thought and history seen in broad context and from a wide variety of perspectives. Created by a gift from rich and nancy kinder. We are grateful they made the bold choice of humanities and social sciences at the university of missouri as one of their philanthropies. Our hope is to teach and learn about american constitutional democracy as the founders created it but not just that. We want to understand the ideas that inspire the founders as well as those they disagreed with and over. We want to understand our public shortcomings as well as accomplishments, the changes it has gone through as well as internal truths and here is a big one, we want to model what we like to think is the true spirit of deliberative constitutional democracy and academia properly understood and practiced. That is working towards enlightenme enlightenment, liberty and just frs all and renewal of democracy through vigorous discussion such as im sure we will have right now. In addition to our programs for graduate and ungraduate students we put on extensive series of public talks and lectures including history series. If you are in town come back and on cspan come back for constitution week next week. We will be hearing from speakers about Thomas Jefferson and james madison. This is tv. I need to say you can find out all about the Kinder Institute and programs at democracymissouri. Edu. Move on to todays speaker. A new neighbor of ours, professor Craig Bruce Smith. Craig is assistant professor of history. He is a graduate of st. Johns university i believe the one in new york. There are a lot of those out there. And he earned his phd where he studied with the great david fisher. He has also taught at a number of other places. He has won awards and fellowships from the Massachusetts Historical Society and fred w. Smith National Library for study. He is also already won above and beyond award from classroom excellence. Good job, craig. Craig one of the reasons craig is here is because he has a book coming out in april from university of North Carolina press called american honor, the creation of the nations ideals during revolutionary era promises strong return to notion of ideas as driving force of the American Revolution. Craig will be arguing that the American Revolution was not only a revolution for liberty and freedom but also a revolution of ethics and hopefully the good kind. Much has been written over the past decades about concept like virtue and honor as they relate to american culture. Maybe you heard about the hamilton musical. Craig has returned to these topics with bold new thoughts. We would like to welcome Craig Bruce Smith to the Kinder Institute today. [ applause ] thanks so much. Thank you, jeff, for that kind introduction and thanks everyone for turning up. I usually sit back there and get to relax. Now i have lights and people watching me. I have to Pay Attention for the next hour or so. Thanks so much for the kinder. They have welcomed me with open arms. I am new to the missouri area. I felt at home here. They have invited me to every talk they have had. It is just a great community. The professors, the staff, the graduate students and i see many new faces and hopefully i get to meet you at some point. So thanks for the kind introduction. I am thrilled to be here to talk about my ideas drawn from my new book american honor shameless plug coming out april 23 up for amazon preorder next week. Done with shameless plug for now. Anyway, thank you for coming. Like jeff said i think it is a very good introduction, looking at the American Revolution based on ideas of honor, of virtue, of ethics. Things that are often dismissed. Today we are talking about ben franklin. Titled it early to rise Benjamin Franklin and the creation of ascending honor. You are probably wondering what is ascending honor . You will wonder a little more. So we join our story in 1784 as a 78yearold Benjamin Franklin has been in paris for nine years on a diplomatic mission. Just outside paris in the village a stopping off point to the royal splendor of versailles Benjamin Franklin resided in lepetite hotel. He was a nonpaying guest, a friend of king louis. He had been here for all nine years. He perched on the terrace. He could watch as the waters meandered past the isle. But the end of the war three months after the peace of paris, a war that ravaged his native country he wouldnt begrudge him a moment of respite to watch the water flow. Inside his mind did not meander as the river did. He wrote to his first born daughter and the words he put down in 1784 fundamentally revolutionized the concept of honor, the concept of aristocracy and birth status that had basically consumed europe for most of its history. Inside he wrote honor does not descend but ascend. What did he mean . Two things. One, he is making a change where it is an honor, merit become linked. No longer are you honorable because of who your parents were. You are responsible for your own actions and not just that, those who taught you to behave that way are also incredible. Before we get started im off just again shameless plug leave the chair for two seconds, moving on. The question i am often asked is what is honor. This is a question asked by academics, my family. So what is honor . And it is a very difficult thing to define. And history, it is understood as many, many different things. The problem is at no real point in history has anyone been particularly clear. You probably think of this. Im not going to rap for you. Hamilton dueling honor as the concept of reputation, what one thought of you was the honor you had. You had to defend it. Risk being shot anywhere to defend your position. Im here to say that this is only a small, small part of it. In fact, it is a part that was dismissed by most of the key members of the founding generation. Franklin, washington among others. So lets look at some supporting evidence. It is no easy understanding to explain a word which is used by all men very unsteadily and by most without any meaning at all. It is very difficult to define honor. It was a it mean . Maybe rutherford at cambridge. Honor is a vague expression to which custom is given different meanings. Essay on the wart art of war f. If youre a literary fan, true honor and virtue are almost synonymous. Honor was any particular virtue much valued. I also dont know why my eye gets a little wonky. Pam larks pamela, a novel that was published in america says i do apprehend that your notions of honor and mine are very different from one another. Even in the 18th century it was confusing as to what these concepts actually were. Quick definitions for clarity. Honor was probably Something Like reputation. Virtue probably similar to morality usually linked to religion. Ethics was a term not very much used in the 18th century. It was reserved for literally talking about aristotle. One of the earliest references to the word ethics in america is made by ben franklin. So where does this leave us . If anyone is familiar with google annograms, you can actually search. It says lots of books. Anything published from 1500 to 2008. Ive done this and before we get to that, because i cant remember my slides, quick rule of thumb. The further north you go, honor and virtue are separate. Virtue takes precedence over honor. The further south you go the terms are almost used interchangeably. Im here to honor and vir tue ae ethics. Im thinking in the modern concept. Doing what is right. What you believe is proper. You plug in the word honor and honour, british and american spelling. And virtue. What you notice here, the spikes right around the revolutionary era. Curious why that was. Looking into this, the basic the patrolmen premise of my book is literally the cause that helps to shape how the founders go into war and how they leave it. So why dont we think of honor anymore . Take a look at the top slide. Youll see honor is slowly, slowly dying. Ethics is rising. And youll see in the early 20th century is literally a moment where honor and ethics intersect and change. So when i want to invite you all to do is to consider the possibility that when the founders are speaking of honor, they dont mean just reputation. Dont mean just courage. They mean something more. So ben franklin was born the youngest son of the youngest son for five generations back at a time where birth status actually mattered. The son of a candle and soap maker and he was born right about there on that star. Again, someone with an actual connection, can you tell me what address that represents . Good for you. Very humble beginnings. And his parents couldnt afford to send him to school, so he only had about two formal years. And he turned then to literature. This is something thats very, very common during the period. New england had about a 75 lit rassy rate during this time. He turns to literature. In puritan boston, those are usually going to be religious. Here he learn that honor and virtue are very much connected to religion. A man may cry out against sin of policy, but he cannot abort by v virtue of a godly against it. Ive heard many who can try out in the pulpit who can abide it well enough in the heart, house, and conversation. Its not enough to speak about virtue or honor. You actually have to live it. Who is the perfect example . Well, jesus was such a person of honor. Doesnt mince words. In boston its very clear. Cot to the mather, one of the big families in the boston area writes a series of essays to do good. And hes going to say that it is an invaluable honor to do. It is incomparable pleasure a man must look upon himself as dignified and gratified guy god when an opportunity to do good is put in his hand. This is service to god. Without christ, you are not christian. All virtue is but vice. So franklin from the early age has this idea of puritan honor and virtue. But he also has to struggle with his own birth. In there he finds a reference of a spartan king granting honor, granting prestige to persons of worth and virtue. This is one of the early references that franklin finds that you behave well you can make your way in society. He takes this to heart. One of the chief influencing factors was a gentlemans magazine called the spectator. They collected witty essays and things youd hang out at the coffee house and laugh over. The spectator is going to make the following claims. These are all in volume iii. Dont Pay Attention to volume i. These are all in volume 3 republican with the virtues of that person to whom they apply but they are too often the marks rather of grandeur than of merit. The first person to earn them, the idea to come from merit. Then after that it whittles down. So the person who may hold the generation from now may have literally nothing to do with that initial action. Keep this in mind about ascending versus descending. So if youre doing something for your own personal means, all superiority which is not founded on merit and virtue, so by birth is supported. Just a way to advance. So franklin, again, if you cant see the backdrop, its silence do good letters. His brother runs the new england current. As a teenager he disguises himself as an older woman. You may remember this from such films as national treasure. He takes particularly the name do good from cotton mathers essays to do good t. Shows he. It shows hes understanding of the idea of birth status. He makes sure in the fake introduction where hes posing as an older woman to point out that people need to know who it is thats speaking before theyll actually listen to them. Are they a persons status or are they lowly . He makes sure to remind his readers that she, i should say, is a friend to virtue. Therefore, she must be telling the truth about everything except the identity i suppose. In there he also takes aim at he sees the sort of more unworthy nonmare torrious. He targets one particular institution of Higher Learning not far from him and that is harvard college. He says that students get in only because of the purses of their parents rather than their capabilities. Harvard produces nothing but fenc dunces and block heads. And all they learn how to do is carry themselves handsomely and enter a room genteely. Hes used this as sort of the idea of a senning juding just b money, on your family position as inherently wrong. So 1723 the new england current, in the minutes of a Gentlemans Club meeting he introduces his concept of ascending honor. He says honor properly ascends and not descends. Basically he flip flops this in 1784. And he takes well, my words got cut off. He takes particular issue with this concept of hat honor. What is that . Anyone know . The idea of tossing a cap to your superior. Franklin says, im going to p r paraphrase, honor existed from the beginning, but hats were an invention of man. So therefore, hat honor must be newer and therefore not a truth. To show you the comparison, this is very much modelled after the spectator. Youll see the idea of virtue is most reasonable and genuine source of honor and it comes from merit. Franklin here uses the bible and he says look at the bible. There are no titles of honor. Its not my lord abraham, the right honorable abraham. But is he not entitled to this position . So hes taking issue and hes using the basically accepted beliefs of the time to counter. This is 1723. He does not said another word about ascending honor until 1784. Instead he runs away from his apprenticeship in boston, heads to philadelphia. Then he goes to london and then he has a difference sense of his own morality. At the time lord chesterfield who is going to write a very prominent guide for how young men need to live their lives is going to be there at the very same time as franklin. This is just giving you a sense of what would have been understood. That honor and virtue alone can help you advance in society. And this is what franklin takes to heart. This is his way in. However, while in london hes going to come to the conclusion that nothing could possibly be wrong in the world and that vice and virtue were empty distinctions, no such things exist. I ask you was he one of those gentlemen . Or that gentleman . So he would not be the first young man to come to these conclusions or at least wish them to be true. But on his return to philadelphia, quaker dominated area, he suddenly recants of his sort of idea of vir ttue. He comes to something thats closer to the greater good or the general good. The idea that actions are not right or wrong based on any sort of greater ideas but because they are good for the community. And this is something hes going to advance the rest of his life. The idea of something honorable must serve the community. Must serve the general good. And the influences of the community he forms a sort of a joint meeting where they talk about particularly morality, virtue and politics. He forms the Library Company of philadelphia which is still in existence and Subscription Library to allow people who cannot afford to purchase books to have access. He founds Poor Richards almanack. And he also published many works that deal with it including novels. He lists them specifically as books of ethics. And this is the first one of the first mentions in american newspaper of the term ethics, something other than relating to aristotle. He also comes up with 13 names of virtue. One of them got cut off. The last one is humility, something you could argue ben franklin never had in his life. He comes up with this and he has a specific plan. Literally create a spreadsheet. He says he walks around with a little notebook with columns and he marks off which he excels in every day and mark if he doesnt. But it gets better. You can only do it one at a time. Man is only human. So you have to go down the list. Youll notice chastity is number 12. He has a loose interpretation that chastity allows for affairs and premarital sex as long as no one finds out. These are also coming from his auto biography. But this is what hes actually doing in his life. He comes to other conclusions that selfdenial is not the essence of virtue. This is fundamentally going against a christian culture. You can be wealthy. You can enjoy life. Its nothing sinful. My chopped off quote, stop putting yourself on the cross. Anyone not practicing, anyone not practicing sort of this idea of selfdenial is a lunatic. Im sorry that got cut off. Imagine it was good. Literally insane. He also wants to form whats called a united party of virtue. Literally he imagines a world in which men of Different Countries get together, men of morals based on virtue, and they run the sort of wider World Community based on this concept of the general good. Were still waiting. He founds the college of philadelphia which is based on the concept of honor and reputation depending on the morals and behavior of the youth. The idea that the college has to instruct the students and have the students behave then reflects back on the college. Similar to his idea of ascending honor which he does not mention. So this is the ben franklin we think of. The whole kite thing. This is how hes pictured. Right when he retires from being a printer. Thats what he actually looked like. Franklin became a gentleman when he retired. And he lived like one. And he acted like one. And he dressed like one. Why . Because his learning had helped him advance in the world. It went a little to his head. So hes going to take the line from the spectator to heart and says titles and honors the rewards of virtue. Had he not vn virtuous . He had a notebook that said so. He actually gets made a colonel of the pennsylvania militia. He celebrates this by having 40 mounted calvary ridealong side of him. And apparently this is a pro session that is reserved only for the princes of the royal. For man who just became a gentleman. Even in his auto biography you could sense the smirk as he writes it. So french and indian war ends. What do we get . No taxation without representation, all that, right . Okay. So franklin at this point has made his way in the empire. Hes a firm friend of king george as any man. Stand back. No taxation without representation. Franklin actually considers that the stand back to britain can only hurt themselves by hurting the colonists. Hes trying to heal this divide. He does say in regards to boycotts and things of this sort he would rather surrender his own debt. He would rather lose money because they are debts of honor. Franklin comes late to the idea of being a patriot. Others are feeling the term washington will use is king georges hand in his pocket. But what draws him into this idea of being a patriot is in the late 1760s two men, governor Thomas Hutchinson and Andrew Oliver preside over boston during a period of taxation of various bills that were seen as oppressive. Franklin is trying to heal the nation. Excuse me, heal the colonies and britain. He actually comes across the private correspondence of these men. How does he get them . He says honorably use your imagination. But what hes going to do is hes going to send them back to massachusetts and tell people to only show privately. The adams will have it published and it ends up being debated on the floor of the local government. But franklin is not put out by this. He knows that hes using these two men as scapegoats. He focuses on words of keep these letters secret and suppression of liberty. But theres many positive, pro colonial things in here as well. These two men become the scapegoat. Franklin did that on purpose. Hes going to say right here if they are good men, that they will sacrifice their reputation to return to mother country to the colony. Those in england dont see it that way. The plan works in america, but he is called before the privy council. Unfortunately, he shows up before the privy council at the same time they receive news of the boston tea party. The British Government is very unhappy and he is basically berated, humiliated for an hour in front of an audience. Hes called dishonorable. Hes stripped of his positions in america. He loses his way to advance. Honor and virtue have failed him in the british world. Or at least his concept. Moving on, meanwhile, First Continental Congress, they are going to come to this conclusion already. The colonists are viewing themselves as bound in honor. An honor that john adams is going to say is becoming more and more alike between north and south. The war breaks out. Franklin wasnt there. But he is present at the signing for the there are other things as well. Theyre all viewing british behavior as being dishonorable. Because the king is dishonorable, he has broken his bounds. Therefore, theres no problem with separating. What had initially been about the British Parliament and segue to the camp. The tricky part was how do you break an oath to the king and the idea was that the king was no longer honorable. And the john adams quote, the idea it is certainly true that some of our southern brethren have not annecked the same idea to the words liberty, honor and politeness that we have. But i have the pleasure to observe every day that we learn to think and feel alike more and more. So theres a separation between honor and virtue. They start to come together. Honor becomes a word that can be used interchangeably for how they need to act. Something a secular sort of religion that they learn how to all understand. Meanwhile, they pledge their sacred honor. Franklin goes to france where hes the toast of paris and also the center of fashion for wearing a fur hat. He will be so popular and so prominent and so wellloved among the ladies that king louis will get a chamber pot with his likeness at the bottom. So he is going to be responsible for the alliance of 1778 which is going to bring the french into the American Revolution, there by turning a colonial war into fundamentally a world war. After that, peace. That was a short war. Here we are at the signing of the treaty in paris in 1783 which franklin is crucial. He gives one of his witty lines, there never was a good war or bad peace. John adams is a little perturbed. Hes always a little perturbed by franklin. In fact, while theyre both in france he complains to congress that franklin should be fired because hes not there working for america. Hes there employing scribblers to trumpet his own fame. John adams was sent to the netherlands. Well, the war ends and theres a little matter of what to do with the Continental Army. In revolution, in wars, usually standing armies are not a good thing. They think back to oliver cromwell. So at the end of the war there was a possible attempted coup against congress by the army that washington manages to dissolve. Washington in 1783 resigns his commission. Maintaining civilian order. First time its really happened this way. But because certain military offers thought they werent being paid, they were afraid of maintaining their position, they created a group called the society of the cincinnatis. Still exists today. To get in you had to be an officer, not a soldier, of the Continental Army or the french army and you can only get in afterwards if you are the first born blood male descendant. Does that sound like anything . Franklin thought so. He called them an order of h hereditary knights. They said, we are here for brothership, for fraternity, for maintaining honor. National honor. And this is where franklin returns to his older concept, to and hes going to say, again, the line at the bottom, the ord of hereditary knights, the idea that you could have this institution, they can exist. They can receive honor. They can receive merit. But those men only. Not their children. Not their grandchildren. For honor is in the nature of personal things. The idea being when you think of reputation, thats part of hop or. Thats a personal thing. Franklin doesnt design this. But he said it has to be harnessed and used for the greater good. Thats why we get honor does not descend but ascend, so it takes him about 60 years and he flip flops two words. Thats editing. But what does he mean . Again, ascending is something higher. He views it as credit to parents, to teachers. He also views it as something loftier. Descending sort of the earth. Of this world. Ascending something internal. Something that we would think of as ethics. An internal belief system. He goes on and says well, this is actually provable. Hes going to say that if you look in the descendants, those who gain the honor, the position of their parents, all theyre going to become is develop newness, stability and wrethe i they will not inherit these traits. Thats not good. Well stick on this one. He actually says, he built in part on sort of the ancient chinese philosophy, but he make its very much applicable to america. He imagines well, if a descendant is half of that initial person, he follow its through nine generations, and he says by that point a person will be a 512th of that original member. Its well over 1,000 people to make one knight and he says that implies all the wires have been virtuous. Where do these ideas get put into play . Franklin is constantly influencing the world around him. A lot of it comes from the publication of his auto biography. He starts it in 1771. It goes dormant. He picks it up again in 1784. The exact moment hes righting of ascending honor. Hes thinking about how he advanced. Hea hes thinking about ideas he wants to pass on. Hes always tried to influence others. The idea of giving tradesmen of the common man a chance to excel. Another interesting fact for the graduate students, republican womanhood, the idea of republican womanhood, that women exist in this new world, women of honor to help raise the new generation to be good republicans. Not to get too often the historians talk, basing it on adam smith, who franklin knew in london. Franklin youll recall says honor is due to the parents because they raised children who are worthy and will contribute to the state. Just the same as this idea of republican mother hood raising good citizens. Franklin in his definition, in his description of ascending honor, never differentiates between men or women. He views them both as kp intertwined. This is something that is allowing more people to contribute to societies. Literally doing three things. Hes making hes moving honor from birth. Linking it to merit. Hes then tying honor to the good of the state or the good of the society. Hes then making it accessible to different genders. All in one phrase. But a lot of this is revealed through his autobiography, which benjamin vaughn, says your account of yourself will show that you are ashamed of no origin. A thing the more important as you prove how little necessary all orrigin is to happiness or greatness. Now, franklin will die before the book is released. It becomes an early best seller. The prof everbs of solomon are good table of ethics. Franklin it fundamentally changed the idea of merit, the idea of birth status, the idea of what behaving ethic cally was. And they were seized by the nation through his writing, through his work with the college of philadelphia and they literally became institutionalized and spread throughout the country and throughout the world. Thanks. [ applause ] we have plenty of time for questions. I am told by cspan, so raise your hand and they have to come over about the boom mic and dont Start Talking until the guy with the mic is there or the tv audience wont be able to hear you. We also tried to have a tradition of letting the student ask the first question. I see lots of students out there. Graduate and otherwise. So if one of you all wants to start, raise your hand. First of all, thank you very much for your talk. I really enjoyed t. It. I have a question on how you believe franklin intended to spread this concept of honor. Because i know in his autobiography he says hes a dias. Is he helping to let the Little People actually believe in this . Thats a great question. He considers himself that. Theres a book that may argue with me but im going to go with you. He is not he doesnt like the dogma of traditional religions. Hes run out of boston for a combination of things, allegedly atheism and vanity, both of which in that context may have been true. He says hes not really focused on individual religion. Hes focussed on he approves of religions for sbruintroducing morality. Thats what hes focused on. What hes doing is creating a system of morals divorced from any sort of dogma. So belief in god is pretty universal during this period. But the idea of if youre acting in the best interests of the those around you, you will be behaving morally. And so i think what we see during this period is theyre almost secularizing. Something you see from a lot of the founders, particularly when we get to the formation of the nation and separation of church and state, the foundations are laid earlier, where through honor, which is moral ethical concept that can be removed from religion. So i dont think hes necessarily saying, you know, sort of the meek shall inherit the earth, but i think hes saying you can make your own way through this understanding. Thanks again, craig. I just had a question about advancement. So hes going to help people advance, but the idea of what advancement is is a little ill defined. Am i right . The idea is and i think how its being understood is involvement and inclusion in this being in society. Whos recognized as being a man of honor or a woman of honor. The idea being that you are accepted, youre viewed as a certain status, and also it affords you political power in many respects. Or at least a say in your wider community. So not to get too much into this sort of gentleman versus, you know the idea is if a person behaves well in whatever their station, they are entitled to be viewed as an honorable person. And then this in turn will be recognized. Franklin is a bit more open on the birth status than some of the other founders, washington for instance. You can be honorable within your social status. You can be esteemed, but you may not necessarily jump up. Franklin is viewing it literally through learning, through behaving properly, through moral choices you make your way in the world. This is what he attributes to his rise. Again, like we said in the beginning, all those definitions, honor can be vague. I think by this point hes really referencing something about ethical behavior and about if you serve the greater good, you serve the nation, you were behaving well. You were influencing future generations and those who taught you are deserving of this praise. Thats at least my understanding. Feel free to i find it really interesting how you talk about his evolving concept of honor and it kind of takes shape in his own benefit. Hes, like, taking honor, but the other thing that was interesting is by the end, it encompasses men and women. What about slaves . Does it encompass africanamericans at all . Do africanamericans have the ability to ascend . A very good question in chapter six. All right. Im going to give you the quick answer. So franklin does start to apply this element to slavery and he does. The earlier on in his career in his life rather than career, hes a little silent on the subject, but he does speak of sort of applying certain proper treatment and certain moral ideals to the enslaved. The first time i think he references it may be in the 1770s. Do not quote me on that. 20 years from now dont send me an email. But later in life he becomes a very prominent number of the pennsylvania abolitionist society. Through that idea of morality service of the greater good, he brings his ideas of ethics and honor and virtue and he apply its to abolitionism. He dies shortly there after, so he doesnt become as prominent a figure as lets say he lives another, you know, 20 years. But he does make that connection. Does he do it later . Yes. Is it something that was central before prior to the war . No. But he is one of the the mor prominent founders to take a very active stand. So i say yes, he does, but obviously theres an inherent complication whenever he introduce slavery. I wanted to kind of pick occupy that question. I thought one of the things that was really interesting about this and what i learned a lot about is how you could map this new idea of honor to o n to kin of the high politics of the revolutionary break. I wonder if youre suggesting thats central to the evolution of this new idea or just an implication of it . What, for instance, would the story look like if you place a sort of economic and social foundation of the story . Isnt this really isnt this new idea really derivative of the patterns of land holding, the relative weakness in the united states, the central institutions and so forth and the political story is really an outgrowth of that social and economic foundation. I mentioned this very point in my introduction because i have been asked this question many times. Its a fair point. Its the complete counter to what im saying. The idea that there is material tangible interest here. And how i do this, this is what ive done to my student. I had a student raise their hand while i was talking and say honor is a stupid futile motion. I said you know i grade your paper, right . How ive done this in classrooms, and please forgive me if this is this is how ive done this. Im picking on you because you asked the question. Is there anything you would do anything for money . No. No, right . Just answer the questioned. So the idea is that im not saying theyre not economic motivations. Im not saying there arent. Oh, land that natives are on. Prok claimation of 1763. Im not arguing that. Im not saying theyre matters of money. Im not saying that the wealthy stay wealthy. What im saying is that there are other issues at play. The idea that theres something else. Now, how i look at this, im trying to im basically saying that theres a change, an ethical change, an ideological change before the revolution actually breaks out. Before theres a shot at concord, theyre starting to speak in much the same way. I point to the First Continental Congress and the First Continental Congress is the first time many of these founding generations actually meet in person. But within a few, you know, a short amount of time, theyre pledging their sacred honor. That to me is suggestive of a shared belief system. Now, this doesnt mean that there arent economics. There arent other factors. Im just suggesting that this ethical component has not been looked at. I think it would give a fuller picture of the revolution, so im not arguing with anyone. Im saying that they have done a great job in the field theyve looked at. Just no one has looked at it like this before. Im wondering, and i really enjoyed the talk, im wondering if i get you to link a little more clearly for me and im a political scientist, so a lot of this is very, very fuzzy for me, but the concept of honor to civic virtue and virtue in particular. Gordon wood points out for example no other word for more than liberty is used. Theres a chris risis of virtue. Washington says men of virtue are but a drop in the ocean. And our theory of politics requires the existence of civic virtue. Somebody has to democratize just as a political process. Is that speaking to franklin at all . Great point. Gordon wood was on my original dissertation committee, so thats all right. So youre right, there is sort of a valid of the concept. We start to see that through franklin arguing against the hereditary aspects, the sort of officer class. And it does youre fundamentally right. You even see this in argue ans of definitions, whether its rebellion, the sort of farmers viewing themselves as the true heirs of the revolution. Where we start to see what youre talking about, the breakdown and sort of the lack of virtue comes a little bit later and starts really bubbling up. Theres a brief period during the war, middle portions of the war, about 1778, 1777, 1778 where it starts being talked about and theres a real clash between civilians and the military and each concludes the other has lost all virtue and only that one particular party is maintaining it. But actually snaps this em otht is the treason of Benedict Arnold which has everyone looking at them saying were of like mind, were not like him. It starts again roughly with the creation of Political Parties in my finding. So french revolution era, constitutional era. When you start having federalists and antifederalists each claiming to maintain national honor, each policies, motivations are for the benefit of national honor, but each claimed the other is lost to honor. I think this is this political maneuvering is where we get this. But what i see from franklin and other founders as well is the idea that its not necessarily class based. That everyone can perform a service for the nation. A line i like to use washington issues during the war, paraphrasing, i should like to think that any post in the benefit of the nation is a post of honor. And i think thats whats going on. But is there are the terms become pl politicized . Absolutely. But at the same time youll see that aaron burr is called the man of virtue by some Political Parties and called the man not to be trusted by others. Youre absolutely right. That was a really great talk. I really enjoyed it. I look forward to the book. You kind of ended on, you know, Benjamin Franklin as sort of this really great known about how he sort of changed what it meant to be honor, sort of the definition of how it was understood in the 18th century. Im curious if you take it forward into the 19th century, this idea, how does, you know, sort of what im thinking of is sort of honor culture in the 19th century about, you know, it seems to be a very gendered idea of what honor is. Im thinking of Preston Brooks and events like this. Im kind of curious, how do you get from youre very explicit by saying franklin has this genderless notion or that its open to both men and women, how do you get from there to sort of honor culture in the 19th century . Great question. Chapter seven. But no, youre absolutely right. And the prominent notion of what honor is is going to be the idea of the duel. Usually in the antebellum south. Im not going to book drop on you because youve probably been reading them all and dont want to hear it anymore. I think thats absolutely correct. I think the idea of this more sort of violent are more public, more masculine notion of honor, 1 100 comes into being in the 19th century. But its not the founding generation per se. Yes the next generation, their son, their grandson, who have not had this glorious cause to fight for. They dont have a way to advance themselves as if the war and the nation have done. They have to find another way to prove themselves. And you start to see this in the early 19th century, the war of 1812, the idea has frequently been, revolutionary war veterans are sort of constantly mocking these children who dont know the older concept. We see it in sort of the chesapeake r chesapeake leopard affair, the idea that honor is more personal. I have to defend myself rather than the good of the nation or the ship or whatever it may be. In fact, one of my favorite stories is this happened at the well, good enough, its college of filled. They actually had a Grammar School in the early 19th century. And for anyone whos been a teacher, this may resonate with you. The one School Master is in front of the school, back turned. One of the students makes a noise. He loses it. He goes around. He calls in other teachers and they demand an apology and admission from one of the students. None of them do it. So he says in front of the whole class, he says your honor is that of a band of thieves. Grammar school. The next day two of his students beat him in the quad with umbrellas. They send a letter home to his father who proudly cheers the behavior of his children in defending their own personal honor. So it does change. But again, im going to go two years later living founders like adams and jefferson. Their natural a ris to craft is someone whos caught in this behavior and when jefferson has the university of virginia, hes complaining that the students no longer think the same way. It does absolutely change. I can throw up more evidence but i dont want to bore you. Craig, can i so do you have a chapter on the founding generation who were in the military . Because they clearly knew who duelling was and did it the way it was done in the future. Not with umbrellas. But hamilton, monroe, burr. Youre absolute right. They do have this spike when they start interacting very much with english and french officers. Afterwards. Certainly afterwards. The issue is if youre looking at the numbers, before 1800 i think theres 75 duels known in the history of america. After 1800 i believe rough numbers, 600, 700 through the end of the 19th century and thats only reported. Youre absolutely right there are certain officers that engage in it. However, most are speaking ill of it. In fact, the most famous hamilton burr duel becomes a moment of very much an antiduel. The idea of they both sacrificed. They both prevented the nation from what could have come from these men. So while youre absolutely right, there are some older ideas. There are some about maintaining personal courage. That isnt necessarily the norm, although it is very visible and i completely concede that. You have time for one more . [ inaudible question ] okay. So franklin has, again, weve discussed the concept of this diesm. Hes already made this sort of split. What hes looking more is a secular means. Madison when proposing separation of church and state. Theyre not dismissing the idea of a divine power or the presence of god, but its indicative of the sort of where the idea is you can behave egt tick cally, you can behave properly in the service of the nation, in the service to the community, in the service of your Neighbors Without having to be of a particular religion. So i think its very much in line with that. I think that its indicative of this sort of more secularized ethics that transpires prior to the war that allow this is to happen. Thats just my thinking. One more . If not, lets just thank craig smith. [ applause ] thanks, everyone, for coming. American history tv on cspan3 is in primetime. This week starting at 8 00 p. M. Eastern. Tonight, from the National Constitution center in philadelphia, discussions on Landmark Supreme Court cases includi including brown versus board of education. Tuesday night the life and influence of buffalo bill cody. 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Get the latest from congress and personal events from across the nation. Cspan radio is available in washington on 90. 1. On our website or by downloading the free cspan radio app. Cspan radio. Twe 20 years where you hear history unfold daily. With the series of north Korean Missile tests in the news recently, we decided to look back at the development of Nuclear Missiles and bombers in the united states. Next on real america, from 1959, the air force missile mission. Appearing in his Beverly Hills home library, Academy Award winning actor and world war ii bomb bomber pilot James Stewart describes how the u. S. Mission and jet arsenal is used as a deterrent in the cold war. He reflects hads on service in a b 24 liberator was promoted to brig dear general in the u. S. Air force reserve and flew in 1966 vietnam bombing mission. This is about 24 minutes