Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War 20240622

Up next, the best selling historical novelist jeff shaara focuses on the latter half of the civil war involving sherman and the end of the civil war. He argues against the depiction of sherman is a villain and talks about how slaves reacted to his military victory. The Smithsonian Associates posted this 90 minute event. Good evening everyone. Can everyone hear me well . Good. I am mary maclachlan, you program coroner with the Smithsonian Associates and i would like to welcome all of you tonight to what promises to be a stimulating program on the Union General, William T Shermans marched to the city. Before we begin and i announce our speaker, would like to remind everyone to check their cell phones and make sure they are turned off. And also remind everyone that photos are prohibited during these programs. Lastly, we are delighted to have cspan History Channel filming tonight program. Jeff shaara will take questions at the end of the program and we have microphone so we can capture your questions. When you raise your hand, we will have event reps in the aisles of the auditorium and in the balcony and we will wait until you have a microphone in your hands. It is a pleasure to welcome our speaker, jeff shaara back to the smithsonian. He was last here in 2013 when he presented an Outstanding Program on the apple of vicksburg. The battle of vicksburg. Prior to that, here is here in 2012 and presented a program on the apple of shiloh. Battle of shiloh. s trajectories wa his trajectory as one of the primary writers on the civil war and war in general is remarkable. He grew up and tell a degree in criminology from Florida State university. From age 16, he operated a rare coin business first out of his home and then in a retail store. In 1974, he moved to tampa, florida and eventually became one of the most widely known coin and precious metal dealers in florida. In 1988, things changed. His father who was also a writer died. Just made the decision to sell his business and take over management of his fathers estate. After the critical and commercial success of the film gettysburg, he was approached about the possibility of continuing the story and finding someone to write a prequel and sequel to the killer angels. He had no exterior is as a writer but he decided to take him at challenge of the project himself. In 1996, his first novel gods and generals, the prequel to his fathers great work was published to critical acclaim. In 1998, the sequel the last full measure, was published and receive universal praise. Since that time, jeff has gone on to write 15 additional books only one of which is the work of nonfiction and all of which have been national bestsellers. In 2003, the major motion picture, gods and generals, based on his first book was released by warner bros. In 2007, jeff was named to serve on the board of trustees for the Civil War Preservation trust. Tonight, we have his newest book which tonight program is raised and its available through the Smithsonian Museum shop out why the entrance to this auditorium. It is the final installment in his 4book civil war series and he will be happy to sign copies of the end of the program. With that said, please join in giving a very warm welcome to jeff shaara. [applause] thank you very much and thank you all for coming. What people watching who dont know is the weather outside is as bad as it can get. Since many of you came here tonight, its an extra ordinary complement and i take that very seriously, thank you. You could be home where it is dry. This is an interesting time for me. This book just came out two days ago. It is a farewell to me. Its the end of an era i hate to say that its the end of a series and is the end of my relationship with some characters who i have really come to love. That is not too strong a word. Its the ingredient that allows me to do this to get into the heads of these people and feel as though i love them. At the end, you have to say farewell and sometimes you safe there will during the story if something happens to somebody. That can be tough as well but the character want to talk about is the characters make it to the end. That has been quite a ride. It has been quite a ride for them and is in quite a ride for me. Every time i have a book come out, the problem is i start a tour stop through the month of june. You got me while i am still perky. [laughter] that will change, i promise you by the 20th of june. Whenever i start a tour of a brandnew book, there is a challenge because i have absolutely no idea what i will talk about. One thing i have done in the past and my wife has said not to do that is i will go here and stand appear on the stage i will tell you what the book is about witches which some of you are here to hear that what if i tell you too much of what the book is about, there is no reason for you to buy the book. [laughter] my publisher chimes in, dont do that. I cannot help it because i need to talk about these characters. If you know what i do, you know that what i do not write our history books. I dont write the stuff you read in high school. Its not names and dates and facts and figures and places. I am a storyteller i am not a and a story and and thats an important distinction. I am not an historian and thats an important distinction. You dont have the phd and the oma fied my jobs to tell you a good story. Thats the lesson i learned from my other sitting around the dinner table with the kids hearing michael talk about Joshua Chamberlain and little round top. The little 10yearold at the table was listening to the old man tell his stories. That made an impression on me i realized if im going to do this, its not about tax and figures, its about getting you involved in the story with me, taking you with me back to the time. I had done the civil war and said goodbye to robert e lee and stonewall. I went and did a bunch of other things like the American Revolution and the mexican war. And then world war i and world war ii. Im getting off track but one thing i say to the audiences when people ask me what will you do next . The answer was korea. I wanted to korea with all those veterans. They keep writing me and saying we are getting older too. [laughter] ive got a tremendous Research Library already on korea and im ready to go. Then this thing happened in 2011. The sesquicentennial of the civil war. I realized that some opportunity to look at some things that nobody looks at very often, not even a lot of real civil war buffs. Part of this came from those letters i got from people in tennessee and mississippi who said we are awfully tired of hearing about robert e lee and virginia. [laughter] there is a whole lot of stuff that happened west of the Appalachian Mountains that nobody ever talks about. And they are right i started looking at this and i may have said to this audience before publishers like trilogies. Vampires and all kinds of trilogies. [laughter] i guess you can put them in a box. We decided to do a trilogy on the war in the west we started to look at the topics it played out really well because we wanted to do us tory like one per year to do a story like one per your around an event and the first one was very clear to me it was certainly the bloodiest battle of the war up to its time which was shiloh. You say shiloh and you have heard of it. Most people really dont know that what happened at shiloh changed history, change the rest of the war certainly. One reason was the death of one man, Albert Sidney johnston. He is the confederate commander and many people have never heard of him and thats a shame. He is an interesting guy but he dies on april 6, 1862. He is in the middle of his own attack. At the time of his death, he is winning the day, the south is winning the battle of shiloh. M the union army is aess and there are people running like crazy and hiding along the riverbank. They are under the bluffs, hundreds of soldiers have given up the fight and they are done. The south is trying to cut off the union army from the Tennessee River and if they can succeed in doing that, the army has nowhere to go, its over. It will be a crushing defeat for the federal forces. This is whats happening when johnston goes down. The reason that changes history first of all he was extremely Close Friends with Jefferson Davis, president of the confederacy. In the confederacy, if you are friends with Jefferson Davis you are going to do big things. If you are not friends with him, it did not matter of the general you were, he would find a way to get rid of you. Thats not a good way to run a war. More about jefferson later davis later. Johnston also in the hierarchy of the confederacy, he outranked robert e lee. In the summer of 1862, robert ealy is appointed command of the army of Northern Virginia and the rest, as they say, is history. I suggest that had johnston not been killed at shiloh, there is a good chance he would have gotten that appointment because he was so close to Jefferson Davis. He wouldve taken a commanding we never wouldve heard of robert e lee and all those people i have met who claim heritage to robert e lee. Im sure some of them are. Im sure some of them are not but they might no claim to be descendents of Albert Sidney johnston. The other part of that equation is that the federal commander at shiloh is ulysses grant. He is losing when johnston is killed. He turns it around the next day. He wins the battle. At grant lost that apple, that was the end of his career. Likely we had never heard of ulysses s grant, 18th president of the united states. That so history change that shiloh. Also the first apple in the east that drew attention in the newspapers and with the politicians, manassas, bull run the summer of 1851. That is the first to fight where there is actual fighting. There are 5000 casualties that is a horrible number. People were upset by that. The newspapers were upset and people were shocked that this little rebellion is killing people. 5000 casualties at shiloh and eight months later, there are 24,000 casualties. Because of where shiloh is southcentral tennessee, in the middle of nowhere, very few people were aware how horrible that fight is. It was obvious that would be the first book of the series. The second book, if you look at what my father did with the killer angels, he focuses just in the battle of gettysburg. Gettysburg is not the final, penultimate battle that decides the war. Its in the middle. That works out well for me writing the prequel and the sequel. I actually have something to write about. At the same time that gettysburg is happening in pennsylvania Something Else is happening along the Mississippi River and that is vicksburg. It made perfect sense to me that vicksburg would be the centerpiece of my trilogy. Writing about the siege of next erg and i made the argument i live in gettysburg now and the people there dont care to hear me say that i think what happened at expert is more important than what happened in gettysburg. When the union army and ulysses s. Grant received the surrender of 30,000 confederate troops, the confederacy has just lost the entire Mississippi River. It is now in the hands of the feds all the way up north to wisconsin and minnesota and so forth all the way down to the gulf of mexico. It is all under union controls of a good move people and arms in food up and down all the way from the gulf with impunity. The confederacy loses texas, arkansas, most of louisiana and thats important because men food, supplies and that is cut off. Those people were on their own now it divided the confederacy and thats a big deal. That was an easy second choice. The third choice was always going to be this book, fateful lightning. It was always going to be sherman marching from atlanta to the end of the war. I realized if i jumped from expert to atlanta, i skipped a whole bunch of history. I had to go back to new york and convince random house to allow me to doa 4book trilogy. 1 they said yes [laughter]. I cannot just skip over a bunch of really important stuff and important people. One of those people all the way through this has been the string that ties these books together and thats sherman. The other string that there for most of it is ulysses grant. I love the character grant but he goes east. In early 18 city four, Abraham Lincoln figures it out that we need the right guy and he find the right guy in grant and put him in charge of the entire union army. When grant leaves, he puts in charge behind him, sherman. Sherman is now in command of the army of the west. That is a huge piece of history right there. I skipped over the raffle of chickamauga and chattanooga. There are reasons they are important and i will not go into the history of it that chickamauga happens in late 1853. It is a tremendous victory for the confederates. William rosenkranz was the Union General who fell flat on his face and was a disaster. It takes place in chickamauga there is no town of chickamauga, its in northern georgia. The union army is in chaos and i run scrambling, retreating from the field and went back to their stronghold of chattanooga, tennessee across the border. It is bad. All of the confederate generals realized that this is an opportunity. Think about what has just happened that summer gettysburg vicksburg, the morale in the north is sky high and morale in the south is in the pits. All of a sudden at chickamauga it turns around. We have defeated a major union army. All the confederate generals go to their commander, Braxton Bragg, a real piece of work, and they say weve got them lets go. B whats follow this upragg does not believe it. Bragg does not believe his army has been that successful so he is cautious and delays and he has underneath him who are going crazy that he has delayed. Instead, he sees the union army in chattanooga. Youve got high mountains on two sides and the Tennessee River is there a Missionary Ridge amend chattanooga is down there. Bragg looks down and says this is perfect, we will make a siege. He puts together a siege but the problem is, there are not enough confederates to close the circle. The union folks in chattanooga were in dire straits for a while with starvation going on but grant arrives and rides over the mountains and comes in and breaks the siege and supplies begin to come into chattanooga. All of his generals looking at bragg realized that we lost an opportunity here. In fact, bragg is so despised by his own generals that they sign a petition to have him removed from command. That never happens in the army. That petition is sent to richmond to Jefferson Davis. Jefferson davis likes Braxton Bragg so he goes there. He goes to the headquarters to calm and suit everyones feelings and convince them that everything will be fine. Then he goes back to richmond. What davis has just done is handed bragg Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants. What you think he does . With the people who signed the petition . He purges a few of them from his army. These are good commanders and he finds a way to get rid of them because they are his enemies. Not a good way to run a war. As the union army get stronger in chattanooga, they highly breakout you got grant and sherman and George Thomas you got joe hooker who lost the battle of chancellorsville and he is there fighting underground. Basic seat under grant. They succeed in blowingbraggs troops away. It is a catastrophe for the confederates and one shining light for the Confederate Army during the entire campaign is a man who is a principal character in that story. The mans name is patrick cleburne. There is a book written by craig simon, the stonewall of the west. Thats the kind of reputation he had but for the confederates hes only one man and he is only a Division Commander and he cannot control its happening over the rest of the field. I love this character. The defeat for the confederates at chattanooga is absolute. The result is even Jefferson Davis cannot hide from the fact that braxton rag has to go. Jefferson davis brings them to richmond as an advisor. Nobody would serve under bragg but now he is Jefferson Davisadvisor. By the defeat of the confederates at chattanooga, the doors wide open to atlanta. As sherman takes command of the army there, he knows what his job is. Its to go to atlanta. Atlanta is enormously important as a rail hub and supply hub and the grant armies in virginia fighting robert ely and they are getting their supplies through atlanta. The rail lines were critically important so sherman figures thats where we have to go next. Assuming command after rag is gone is joe johnston. He was one of the highest ranking generals and the confederacy. Here is another guy who hates Jefferson Davis and the feeling is mutual. They viewed all the time but davis realizes that we need somebody to take up this defeated army and put them back together again and try to stop sherman from taking atlanta. It does not really work because johnston is first of all a master of retreat. [laughter] sometimes that is important. You can retreat when you need to when you can preserve your army and fight another day but johnston is good at. That it really makes people feel good in the army that is good that but it does not do anything for the people in richmond and it does not do anything for the newspapers in richmond who begin to pass a joke around that johnson is so good at retreating that eventually, his army will end up in bermuda. [laughter] after a while, as the fight pushes closer to atlanta there are some minor victories for the confederates and a couple of major ones but for the most part, sherman has the numbers and the forces and the guns. Hes got the technical ability and they get closer and closer to atlanta. Jefferson davis says enough of that so he gets rid of joe johnston. He brings in a fighter. Thats what we need, a fighter. He brings in John Bell Hood. He has already lost at least two limbs by that point. It is a sick story. At the battle of chickamauga John Bell Hood loses his leg. He is a texan. He want the leg preserved and taken back to texas. Ok they pick some poor lieutenant and put on a horse with theleg and send them off to texas. The leg never makes it. I can only imagine and nobody knows what happened to this guy or the leg but think about after three days, what that ride mustve been like. Im guessing the lieutenant said enough of the son took the thing and threw it in a ditch and then went home. We dont know where the leg ended up. John bell could recognize as he is being put in this command because of what joe johnston did not do. Johnston did not write effectively against sherman so put understands his responsibility and all eyes in richmond are on him. He says he will fight and he does. In three separate engagements around the city of atlanta, he takes his army and throws it away into shermans guns. He marches these valiant attacks that are absolutely disastrous. He is so wet that he moves into retreat and withdraws his eye army into alabama. Atlanta now belongs to sherman. Sherman marches into atlanta and here is where the problems begin when you are dealing with sherman and his reputation. First of all, he is not he does not win and butcher the city of atlanta. He tells the citizens to go away. He says bad stuff will happen and there is no reason for you to be here and you can get out of you want to end many of them do. He tells the mayor and the townspeople that theres no reason for you to be here. We will burn some things. Sherman never just decides to burn a bunch of homes. Is burning every factory, every millwork, every storage facility, he tears up all the railroads, anything that can help the Confederate Army anything that gives aides to the confederates. Unfortunately, when the wind blows in your burning this factory and next to it is a bunch of wooden houses, oh well it happens. ,john bell put is being besieged bweseeched by richman to do something about this. He comes up with a new plan. He says we will march this army out of alabama and go north. We will go into tennessee and attack nashville. Sherman is an atlanta and he will follow. He has to protect nashville. What they dont realize is that sherman has already sent George Thomas to nashville with a bunch of people and he could care less about nashville and could care less about what John Bell Hood is doing. Hes got his eyes on Something Else entirely and it does not tell his own army, he tells a couple of key generals, and he tells grand because he is to get his permission and washingtons permission to go the opposite direction. Instead of following John Bell Hood to tennessee, we will burn all those railroads and ridges and bridges behind us. We are going the other direction. In georgia, you have three cities in a range like this. The one in the north is a gust of on the South Carolina border is augusta on the South Carolina border. Milledgeville is in the middle and that is the capital of georgia. South of milledgeville is mason macon. They have armand works and there is a boys military academy. These are all important places. The confederates have exactly 4000 cavalry in georgia to oppose sherman. Sherman has 60,000 troops with about 5000 calorie of his own. Cavalry of his own. He just has to infuse the confederates as to where he is going and they will not be able to unite everyone together to make an attack on his army. He fooled them. He convinces them that he could be going to augusa or macon or to milledgeville and they will have no clue. Again, 60,000 infantry. He sends them on different roads. The confederate cavalry is watching and had absolutely no idea where he is going. They could never unite. They have to scatter all over the place. I am doing exactly what i am not supposed to be doing tell you what is in the book. But there is a point and i will stop. Because the history is what it is. Most of you know that sherman ends up in savanna. That was his attention all along. The confederate commander, william hardy, who is in the chattanooga book, this is a man from west point. He writes the textbook on military tactics they are using in both armies. He is the author of those books. He is a confederate commander in savannah with 9000 troops. He figures out before anyone else where sherman is going and realizes, there is not much point in sitting here waiting. That is a part of the story. The character of hardy i really like this man. Again, he is a good soldier. He knows his duty, what he is doing on the battlefield. Knows that their cause is hopeless. This is a big theme in the story. The good confederate commanders no matter what is coming out of richmond, the orders coming out of richmond, either Jefferson Davis is delusional, or the newspapers backing their cause they are saying sherman has cut himself off atlanta. He will get thrown in the ocean. We have him where we want him. All this ridiculousness out of richmond. These papers in charleston and augusta. Sherman is laughing at all about. Hardy reads that with a great deal of sadness. He realizes none of it is true. He knows exactly what will happen, but he has to keep going. That is a tough story for a man who values what he does and has honor and a sense of excellence about what he does. He is faced with the impossible. Sherman, the thing about sherman , depending on when this airs, i may have already been through with a tour. I kind of hope so. I am going next week to atlanta jackson, mississippi, and birmingham. Atlanta and jackson were burned by sherman. I have to stand in front of audiences and tell them about the book. The reception may not be as kind as the reception i am getting from you. But history is what it is. At the least, my job is to tell the truth. Here is what happened. He burned atlanta. It is a mess. I start the book with that scene in gone in the wind, when Scarlett Ohara is going through the wounded, and in the background is the conflagration of atlanta. Special effects in 1939 were pretty amazing. That is what i imagine sherman is seeing leaving atlanta. That is where the book begins. I did not steal Margaret Mitchells idea, but it is history. That is where the story begins. With all due respect to people in atlanta who have been sending me all this stuff about the battle of peachtree creek, lots of stuff about the battles in atlanta, that is not what the book is about. That is another book. I could not convince random house to do a five book trilogy [laughter] jeff shaara it was too much. Every book, i agonize over what to leave out. I start with sherman on november 16 1864, as he leaves atlanta and begins the march. The march itself is only half the story. When sherman gets to savannah it is not over. Lee and grant are going at it in petersburg. The goal all along is not to capture savannah. It is fine, not really useful to the confederacy because of the blockades. It is a nice place to be, but sherman realizes as nice as that is, his military mission is not capturing towns. He wants to marched his army up to grant, linking them together in an overwhelming force. That is his goal. He begins the march northward. Here, he does the same thing he did in georgia. Hardy is in charleston, logically assuming that he will hit charleston. Write up the coast, big city. So they are preparing. But sherman fakes him out. Instead of going up the coast, he goes inland and right up the middle of South Carolina. What is in the middle of South Carolina . Columbia. The state capital. That is the most controversial thing that sherman is involved with. Notice i did not say did. Columbia burns. Way worse than atlanta. It is a mess. Columbia burns because of cotton. I am going to get grief for this. On this tour, i am not going to columbia. [laughter] jeff shaara not a conscious decision. The publisher arranges the tours. I wanted to go to columbia. But in columbia, there are people who are still angry because sherman burned columbia. No, he did not. The fire was started by confederate cavalry because they did not want the cotton to fall into the hands of Union Soldiers. This is money. They started a fire. As sherman rides into columbia there is a wind storm brewing. The wind is winning like crazy. There is almost snow in the air. It is flecks of cotton. That is where the fire begins. The wind. Shermans own people are out at night trying to put the fires out. A whole division of Union Soldiers is brought into town to help with the fires out. They cannot. Is sherman culpable . Of course he is. Is he blamed for it . Of course he is. Did he actually do it the way a lot of people say . No, he did not. You can decide how you want to judge it. I just tell you what happened. That is as far as im going. I do not want to tell you the rest. The war ends. [laughter] jeff shaara there are two other characters to tell you about. One introduced in shiloh, a lieutenant named james healey from memphis, under nathan forest. And joe wheeler, confederate cavalry general, who serves as a Major General in the spanishamerican war. He commands Teddy Roosevelt and the rough riders. A confederate cavalry commander fighting joe wheeler. Healey is on the front lines and looks around him and sees what we have left to hold them back. Not enough. He is deeply in despair. But again, another one of these people that understands you have to fight. The opportunities and chances are part of the story. I was happy to bring seeley back he lee back. Another character that was unique, and many people do not do it because you do not find accounts as shermans army marches through georgia, they march past a plantation. The plantation owners and overseers, people keeping slaves, are gone. The slaves are sitting at the plantation watching the army march by. They begin to realize we do not have to stay here. And they begin to follow the army. Tens of thousands of them walk off the farms and plantations and begin to follow shermans army. The problem is, they have to feed them. We are talking old young women, girls. A complete crosssection of humanity following shermans army. One of those people is a 19yearold man named franklin. He is born and raised on howard cops plantation. Former governor of georgia. He is now a confederate Major General. So he is off fighting the war. He is a political general and is worthless. Hardy has to deal with that. He leaves the plantation. This young man born and raised and the only thing he knows is life on the plantation, his father lost part of his leg to one of the dogs, the father is terrified of leaving. The father thinks once the army is gone, all these people are coming back. We had better work in the field. Franklin leaves his father and follows the army. Franklin is an interesting character because he is ultimately ignorant. He can barely read. Think about what they taught slaves. They taught them how to read the bible. They want to them to be good christians. Preachers would teach them how to read the bible. That is how he learns to read. They teach him a little ciphering. He can add and subtract. He does it with kernels of corn. He is now out in the street, surrounded by black faces. He realizes it is more people he has ever counted kernels of corn. He didnt know there were that many black faces in the world. He does not know what a city is until he has seen savannah. What happens with franklin, the other part of this, and it is hard for us to put ourselves in that mind, and i worked on this. Think about a smart man, a man with intellect and no education. He walks out and everything he sees his brandnew. The artillery men bragging about the guns. All this is a new sensory experience to franklin. Several things happen. There is an example where Union Cavalry is tossing confederate money to the crowd. The negroes are grabbing it and a sense of euphoria. Franklin snatches a note out of the air. I was in the precious metal business. I handle paper money. I know what a confederate dollar bill looks like. He is looking at this hundred dollar bill. There is a picture of slaves in a cotton field, working the land. He realizes he is looking at himself and cannot, for the life of him, understand why someone would put that on a piece of money. What is there about that that is appealing to anyone . He also realizes even though he is not sure what the money is for, and the fact the cavalry is throwing it out probably tells him it is not worth and he gives it to a guy stuffing his pockets full. Frank when also asks the question people around him are in jubilation. Mr. Lincolns boys. You hear that a lot. Mr. Lincolns boys. They have come to save us. That is a refrain. An old woman tells franklin, we have been delivered. Franklin is walking along with this parade of joy and begins to wonder what will happen when the army goes home. Where are we going . We are following the army. To where . He does not know. When he gets to savannah, people Start Talking about South Carolina. He does not know what that is. That level of unawareness and intuition is a real interesting combination. I love the character of franklin. I have never done this before. I do not know how it will be received. First of all, i never use the term africanamerican. This is 1864. There are other terms i also do not use, even though they are in shermans memoir. I do not cross that line. But the story of what it is like for the slaves when they realize they do not have to go back to the plantation and have a different realization entirely at Ebenezer Creek georgia, a horrible thing happened. I will not reveal it. It is in the book. They find out the hard way that all the guys in blue are not necessarily their friends. Just because the union army has delivered them and given them freedom does not mean all the soldiers like them. There are a couple things that happen. Some of the slaves decide, i would rather go home. They turn around and go back rather than keep going and taking their chances. Again, this is threedimensional history. This is how it happened. It is one thing to read it in a textbook. So many slaves followed shermans army. You read that all the time. But if there are 50,000 slaves following the army, that is 50,000 minds seeing things in a different way than we would see it. That is the fun part of telling the story. At the end one of the things about sherman, i sort of joke that i will be at atlanta next week, i do not think i will get that much grief. I explore the character of sherman and his frailties. By modern standards, he is manicdepressive. Bipolar. And he suffers. His army is full of vim and vigor. A lot of people in the union army have never lost a battle. That is a confidence builder. They are ready to fight. Sherman wants to fight to end this thing. Yet he himself suffers from fear doubt anxiety. I am not making apologies for him at all. For people in atlanta may think im doing it. But it is just who he is. That is my job. The research. Shermans memoir is wonderful. I have a book this thick of letters. To his wife. Ellen sherman is a devout catholic. Sherman is not. That is kind of a problem between them. It actually becomes a problem later in their life. Thomas wants to become a priest. Sherman will have none of it. There are a lot of things about these people that goes beyond what they do with a sword in their hand on the battlefield. My job is to introduce these characters to you as human beings, as us. They are not that different from us. That is part of the fun. That is the lesson i learned from my father. I want to wrap this up. I very much want to hear from you. We are limited on time. You are very patient. I could just keep going, talking about exactly what im talking about. You would not want me to do that. Five years ago, i was at one of the suburbs. People always ask me, what are you working on next . I told him what i wanted to do korea. I mentioned korea before. One of the reasons is not because of the old veterans writing me, but because what do most americans who were not there know about korea . M. A. S. H. With all respect to alan alda, it is about vietnam. It is a vietnam story. What about the chelsea reservoir . I have a memoir of a chinese p. Ow. W. , a memoir of a north korean soldier. I am so excited about that. I was really bummed to find out that cho sin is in the north. I will not go to cho sin. Someone suggested, sneak in. [laughter] jeff shaara there is a good idea. [laughter] jeff shaara but that is the next story. I have been on a book or your schedule. It takes a lot out of me. Im getting too old. I have been looking at 18 months plus to get the story done. That is what im working on. Talk about a change of pace and a different perspective. That is good for me. It is helpful for me because i do not get burned out. After that, i want to do a vietnam story. That is my generation. I have received so many letters from people, guys who sent me stuff. They want their story put together. There is another example of what i leave out. What i am not going to do is the nixonlbj story. I want to be out there. I want to go to somebody out there against charlie in the bush. That is the story i want to tell. That is on the table as well. I have a pretty full plate. I am hoping to do this for a long time. I just have to say that for you to come out tonight in miserable weather and sit here, listening to me ramble on about characters , this is where i get my energy. This is where i get my enthusiasm in my office, writing these stories. I really think you for that. I hope as i keep doing this, you keep coming back. Thank you. [applause] jeff shaara questions . Get ready for the microphone. You mentioned the character franklin. Where were your sources . How did you research that character . Jeff shaara there are no really good sources. If you think about it, who is an escape slave . Most of them did not write accounts. I hate to say it this way. It is a novel. I had to create this character and put as much accuracy into him based on what i could find out about plantation life, slave life. The orders sherman gives to his army in response to what he sees. With franklins father, he says, shoot every dog you see. They do. They shoot dogs that probably did not need to be shot, but they take them out so the hounds could never tracked down a runaway slave. That is one of the bones that sherman throws to franklins father. That piece, knowing that sherman did that, sort of going backwards from that, imagining what inspired him to think that way. Sherman did not have indoor miss affection for escaped slaves. He saw them as an encumbrance. He has no bones about making that plane. By the end, he changes his mind. He knows that lincoln wants this and he is doing his job. He is not involved emotionally with the plight of the slaves. That helped me see him as well put me on the ground. I really do not have a good answer to your question. It is here. People ask me, how do you write the dialogue . All i am doing is, i get to the point where i am there. Im telling you what i see and what i hear. I am not mystical. Im not searching for ghosts. But that is what it feels like when i am writing. Im in the room and hearing a conversation. I am just telling you what i hear. That is how franklin evolved. I am telling you what he is thinking because i am there. There is not a good word for that. There is a lousy word, magic. When i am working and i am there, to me it is magic. That is what makes me a writer. I am sorry that is not a better answer to your question. Yes . When sherman was going south was he in contact with d. C. . Telegraphs . How did he communicate . Jeff shaara he did not. When sherman left atlanta, one thing he made clear to grant an entire army, david cunningham, a character in the book and a real guy makes it plain, we are cutting off everything. There is a quote from lincoln i know what hole he went into. We will see which he comes out of. When sherman reaches the coast of savannah, the union navy is there. Those people are wondering if they will ever see the guy. He finally shows up. That is a great scene. You have admiral dalgrin in command. Terrific character. The navy is the first line of communication. They are sitting out there wondering what is going to happen. Suddenly, there is a fight and here is the union army. It is a wonderful scene. But no. Sherman tells the newspaper meant, i hope you sent your last telegram out of atlanta. There is no more until we get somewhere else. The newspaper men had to accept it. That is why grant was awfully nervous about giving authorization. People like stanton in washington were beside themselves, afraid this would be an absolute catastrophe. Appreciate your talk. I am from atlanta. [laughter] i moved there from columbia. [laughter] i have been to chickamauga. We were taught that johnson was criticized for retreating. I wonder, did he actually moved to defensive positions . The few times they fought, there was some confederate success. Had he remained in control of the army until after the election, do you think that would have had any effect . Jeff shaara that is a good what if. Atlanta in the late summer of 1864, it basically hands the election to lincoln. Atlanta is already in shermans possession. Again, a huge morale boost to the north, cementing lincolns chances. That is a real good what if. What was going on, what the confederate realized, not Jefferson Davis. All due respect. He was a smart man and a delusional man. But the people who understood strategy and logistics and understood the confederacy cannot win, their best hope was you wear the north out. You drag it on for so long that people in the north get sick of it. We are tired of the boys coming home in boxes. That was the best hope the confederacy had. Had sherman not take in atlanta it is possible that general mcclellan, he cannot win the war himself, so we make sure no one else wins it, he may have played up on that. That is a real good what if. The only hope the south had was victory over the hearts and minds in the north. That may have worked. Yes . I am from columbia. I would like to think if you went there, they would welcome you with open arms. Just recently, in the last six months, they have discovered a huge cache of military materials in a river. It has provoked renewed debate about sherman and what took place. My question is related to what i read about the first alabama cavalry that accompanied sherman to savannah. It was an all southern cavalry. I am curious as to how that particular unit plays a role in your story. Something you learned . Jeff shaara really interesting. When you first read it, you are consumed. The first alabama cavalry in the union army. I was talking to someone in alabama, told me the county they were from, the northwestern corner. They were fiercely unionist. For whatever reason, that area, they were not real fans of the confederacy. A bunch of volunteers got together and volunteered for service with the union army. They served and are in the book. I mention them because they play a role in the march to sea. The cavalry is the lead. I purposely put that in the book because it surprised me when i read the. That. It deserves mention. On the balcony . Which is a more about would you say more about the relationship between grant and sherman . Jeff shaara they were extremely Close Friends. It is grants loyalty to sherman which allows sherman to keep his job. He is a hothead sometimes. He shoots his mouth off at newspaper reporters, which is never a good idea. Grant saves his bacon more than once early on. It is grants advocacy of sherman that allows him to leave atlanta and make the march in the first place. Washington is not at all happy about the plan. Grant says, let him do it. That is the mark of a true friend and strategist who understands what sherman is capable of. When grant is president , it is grant that promotes sherman to full general. Four stars. Sherman takes command of the expansion of the west. Use an overall command of all of the. That is because of grant. These men are close for the rest of grants life. Yeah, their friendship is key. In the chattanooga story, there is a scene where sherman arrives. Grant knows he is coming. When sherman shows up, there is a moment of almost a childlike scene between them and people have questioned the propriety of sherman grant grant. They never refer to each other as general. It is grand and sherman. It is in the memoirs. Both referred to each other by last name. Almost like a term of an german. Endearment. It is a lot of fun to read about that. There were destructive relationships that contributed to the downfall of confederate armies. So many people could not get along. What was the effect of the that . In doing a fictional account are you tempted to cross the line of historical fact to enhance the fiction . Jeff shaara i understand your question well. Writing historical fiction, am i ever tempted to cross the line . Basically play games with history . The answer to that is a resounding no. A novelist can do anything they want. I mention how frequently harry writes fiction. He wrote a book called the guns of the south. On the front, there is a picture of robert e lee holding an ak47. Aliens go back in time and give automatic weapons. It is a seriously good book. Victim weapons to the Confederate Army and it changes history. I do not do that. I am painstaking and trying to get it right. When i hear teachers are using my books in their classrooms, what a compliment that is. But i realize, if you are using a novel to teach history, the teacher has to have confidence the facts are correct. Otherwise, there is no reason to use it. That added significant responsibility to what i do to get it right. That is why i do so much research. Still, i make mistakes. People catch them. We change things for paperback. Im sure you can find something in here. I appreciate people catching mistakes. Is attempting . It tempting . Sure it is. One way of dealing with that, i did it in the world war ii books first, is composite characters. You cannot do that with sherman and grant. But when you have a kid the g. I. On the front lines, the calvary guy, he starts as a real person. I have a memoir or collection of letters and bring in experiences other people had. The history is accurate. But it is rare to find a character to be everywhere i need him to be to tell the story. That is what i do. I create a composite character who reflects the experiences of several people in one person. If i am doing my job, you do not notice that. To you, it is a humorless story, i hope. To answer your question, i would never do that. In my opinion, and a lot of people would disagree, i would lose integrity if i played around with the facts. I will not do that. Anyone else . Over here. Was shermans army selfsustaining or dependent on supply lines . If so, why didnt the confederate shutter supply lines . Jeff shaara the confederates Nathan Forrest was a foreign thorn in shermans side. She cut him off completely. That army was totally selfsufficient. This is a controversial thing about shermans march. The scavengers. People called bummers. They advance in the army and get stuff through to bring it back. Human nature being what it is, they steal silverware and vandalized homes. It is the bummers give sherman the worst reputation in georgia. But there job is simple. Fill these wagons up and they did that. As they get closer to savannah, if you know anything about georgia, the closer you get to the coast, the poorer the land is. You get into rice country. Many people do not know what rice is. They have to learn from the slaves how to cook rice. It gets dicey for the union army once they are closer to savannah. They discover in South Carolina oysters. The people along the coast these are recently poor people they are eating oysters as a staple of their diet. A guy from illinois is looking at it going, really . But that is what they had to do. They were inventive. They also discover sugarcane. As a humorous thing in the book about sugarcane. It tastes great. They realize it is a confection. Sherman remarks he likes it because it stimulates your bowels. [laughter] jeff shaara they were entirely selfsustaining. Which is why there was so much fear in washington about doing this in the first place. Anyone else . Back here. You explained how he sustained the army for food and shelter. How did he ensure he had enough munitions . Jeff shaara they took munitions with them. The wagon trains were limited but that is one thing they made sure they had munitions. They never had to use them. Have you run into a army of 60,000 confederates . They probably would have had a problem. But there were not succeed thousand. 60,000. Just little mosquito bites of cavalry until he got to savannah. Once he gets to the coast, the navy resupplied him with cannons, naval cannons, to use against savannah if he needs them. The navy helps. But it was never an issue. I have not seen it written how much ammunition they carried. They never had to use it. It was never an issue. There was never a major fight in the march to sea. There was not a single major engagement. That is a testament to shermans sneakiness. I have read that as sherman was going south, the confederates put landmines in the way. That was unpopular. Jeff shaara that is putting it mildly. They were called torpedoes. The term landmines is not the colloquial term. Sherman is outraged. There are several scenes. One in particular. They bury these things across the road with no other intention then kill the lead guy in the column. The first guy on a horse would trip one of these things. That is exactly what happens. It is murder, in shermans mind. We can debate whether anything that happens in war is murder or not. But to sherman, it is. He gathers up confederate prisoners and has been clear landmines. There are several examples. There is another at Fort Mcallister on the coast. The confederates made significant use of those. The union really did. It is a confederate thing. I do not have an explanation. Another question . There are instances where leaders on both sides were west point graduates. What influence did that have on leaders . Jeff shaara a great deal. Sherman respects west pointers. Early in the war, this is a realization made by the north we lost a bunch of people who went south. A lot of guys went to the confederacy who were good commanders in the u. S. Army. Robert ely among them. Joe johnston among them. These are wellqualified officers fighting the confederacy. For the confederacy. That is why, early in the war, they were winning. They win most of the major fight. As things go on, and these guys fall away, it swings in the other direction. Yes . I can understand the appeal of vietnam and korea. What is the process of curing the stories through . Jeff shaara much like with the American Revolution. I wanted to go forward to the constitutional convention. You have benjamin franklin, key figures to the revolution. There involved in the formation of the country. The same situation now. In the aftermath the book, i talk about all of her howard founding howard university. I did not knowing his name. The problem is, it is a hard sell for my publisher. They are very much and i do not mean to be facetious they are of the opinion, if it aint broke, do not fix it. I have a genre i focus on. To suddenly change and do something a little different might not work. I have people that follow what i write that are expecting certain things. That might be a curveball. But the story is fascinating. You have that cast of characters, ulysses s. Grant right in the middle of it. It is just not what i do. Time for maybe one more . They did not close down andersonville. I wonder if you could discuss why. Jeff shaara sherman is aware of andersonville, confederate prison in south georgia. It is off his line of march. Andersonville is significantly south of macon. There is a scene, historically accurate, where half a dozen soldiers come wandering in to shermans camp along the march. They are escapees from andersonville in rough shape. They somehow made it all the way from georgia. When they reached shermans army , they are bawling and sherman is touched. They run into confederate prisons. One in georgia, where they find graves of unions holders soldiers. Pretty nasty stuff. Andersonville was simply too far away for sherman to take a side route. It would have involved dealing with confederate cavalry and upset his timetable. Also, the best way to shut down andersonville, end the war. Anyone who critiques criticizes sherman as a brute and people do, what sherman was sherman was a master of total war. There are quotes in the book but something happened early on in the vicksburg campaign. Townsfolk, the mayor comes out to meet sherman. Please, we are not involved in the war. We do not support the confederacy. Please do not burn our town. Sherman writes them a letter. We have the letter. He says, all you know, if all you know of the war is the occasional dead son that comes home, you have no incentive to make the war stop. The only way you, the civilians will make the war stop, the only way the civilians will make the war stop is if they feel the pain. And so, not indiscriminate pain, but what he does, you shoot at me from your house, i am going to burn your house. Periodically, confederate cavalry will get in the courthouse of a small town, have a skirmish with the first union troops to arrive. Sherman comes in, find out where the confederates were, in the courthouse, and burns the courthouse. He makes it plain anyone shoots at me, i will bring down the fires of hell. And it works. Criticize him if you want, but he understood total war. There are people who would argue we forgot that in vietnam. We got involved in a war we were not willing to fight totally because of a variety of reasons. I am not an expert on that. But sherman understood, you want to win the war, you win the war. You hurt people. And it worked. I will just leave it with that. Love him or hate him, he understood what war is about. Folks, thank you very much for coming. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] you are watching American History tv. All weekend, every weekend, on cspan3. Like us on facebook at cspan history. This year, cspan is touring cities across the country exploring American History. Next, a look at omaha, nebraska. Youre watching American History tv. All weekend, every weekend, on cspan3. We are in the command post of the Strategic Air command 10 miles south of omaha, nebraska. From this location, some for stories underground, the endless activities are price