Our secure future, make the3 difference. The Scowcroft Center works to develop sustainable nonpartisan strategies to address the most important security challenges facingd states and its allies and partners. We honor the legacy of general principle crop, his ethos of Nonpartisan Committee to the costs cost of security, support for use leadership and cooperation with allies and partners, dedication to the mentorship of the next generation of leaders. In keeping with its mission our chance omatic circuit initiative shapes and influences debate on the greatest secret he challenges facing the North Atlantic Alliance and its key partners. Our partners for todays event future, we mimic make the difference founded to strengthen the womens peace sorry. Our partners, our secure future make the women straighten women peace, and security agenda is still a more Peaceful World through ensuring womens full participation iney were to ensure the effective incorporation of perspectives and its peace and security of decisionmaking at the national and International Level which leads to greater security for everyone. Todays event kicks off Atlantic CouncilsInternational Security womens of a weeklong programming. As we reflect on several critical milestones including nearly 25 years of the United NationsSecurity Council resolution 1325 on womens peace and security as well as nato 75th anniversary the discussion will consider a merchant your political challenges should belens to strengthen collective security and defense alliances. This event is part of the candle that its a good native Washington Summit campaign. From information and updates for future events publications follow us on twitter acscowcroft. Todays conversation with will be moderated by Sahana DharmapuriVice President of our secure future and Vice President of before return toowever i pleased to introduce our keynote remarks provided by special representative for women peace and security at nato, irene fell. Allow me to express my gratitude for the opportunity to address you today. On the occasion of this discussion organized Atlantic Council alongside our secure future of womens Business Security initiative securityndscape. While i regret i cannot be there in person, i am keen to share with you my thoughts on this crucial subject. Today discussion would reflect on natos 75th anniversary this year and nearly 21st 21st years of United NationsSecurity Council resolution of womens this security. This milestone serves as a reminder to our collective commitment to advancing gender equality promoting peace and ensuring the security of all individuals regardless of their gender. As we suddenly know, europe is not at peaced ourselves in the security environment instability. Ked aggression of russia against ukraine violated the norms and principles that once a stable and strategic European Security order. Shopping the piece that many people granted. Terrorists is the direct threat poses a significant challenge the security of our citizens and it is an impediment to International Peace and prosperity. Women increasingly face threats that arise globally and they continue to faceningful participation in peace and secure processes. The basic of our resolution 1325 adopted 24 y on not yet fully of limited but indeed authoritarian and terrorist actors narratives which are reflecting their tactics to divide and destabilize. Russias deliberative targeting of civilian and infrastructure in ukraine highlights sitter consequences of this action. Women and girls remain targets of multiple forms of violence including genderbased violence, sexual violence, exploitation, abuse and trafficking. We also face numerous crosscutting challenges. One of of these is Climate Change. As more and more Research Review women and girls experience a disparate impact of Climate Change inequalities, and poses unique threats to the livelihoods, health and safety. Embracing new and emerging technologies offers opportunities to create more gender equal world but we must also be vigilant against Technology Buys engendered disinformation that risks excessive gender inequalities and violence, undermining stilities and strengthening our core values. Nato once again recognizes that Significant Impact that instability happen to women and girls. This shift in Security Landscape underscores theegic response here we certainly believe the complexity of the geopolitical challenges we today demonstrates throughout agenda led. In line with this commitment nato allies update policy set to be endorsed at this years summit in washington, d. C. The new policy will set a a clear vision for advances of nato Deputy Eskridge and allowing the alliance to better navigate current threats and challenges and to contribute to more gender equal future. We will deliver new policy that that reflects our strategic concept which alrea gender equality as reflection of our values as an alliance and integration of the wps legend and defense cooperative security. Wps is relevant now as it has ever been. Resilience in face of this ever evolving security environment requires the active involvement of full segment including women and Women Civil Society organizations. They play a vital role in preparing for, resisting responding to, and quickly recovery. Exchange with Civil Society organizations is vital to prevent us as a work in silos and to ensure natos approach wps align with the global wps this is why in january you have open consultation with newly nominated Civil Society advisor and integrated the policy update as a major part of the first annual meeting. Fu independent advisor offers critical perspectives from the very grassroots of society. This insight plays a a crucial role in helping us identify and preventing blindfold. Nato acknowledges women are often at the forefront to support societal resilience, mitigate conflict. In addition to women contributions to all peace and security efforts their full and Decision Making and implementation of solutions related to all aspects of peace and security are critical to achieving natos mandate and promoting peacend in the euro atlantic area. As we confront, shift and Security Landscape it is crucial to uphold natos values, reinforcing Alliance Unity and readiness to protect citizens, safeguard freedom and democracy and work toward a just, occlusive and lasting peace here i extend my best wishes for a productive at Insightful Panel discussion. Thank you for your commitment to advancing women peace and security in this challenging time. Thank you so much, chris and irene for hping a set the stage for todays conversation, ahead of Womens National date, march 8. With a very wonderful and thoughtprovoking conversation ahead of us and im really glad to share the stage with my colleague. My name is Sahana Dharmapuri, Vice President of our secure future women make the difference. Really excited for you who are watching and all of you in the roomay with us. I i want to begin by quickly introducing our panelists and thenumping conversation. First id like to introduce jenna benyehuda his executive Vice President at Atlantic Council. Previously served as the president and chief executive officer of the Truman National security project and the tnnal policy. Were also joined by Vice President for advocacy and external relations at the womens refugee melanie nezer. She and her team share Womens Refugee Commission research and recommendations, policymakers, media and supporter wider public and in the u. S. Were also joined by ms. Moira technology at the National Democratic institute here in washington washington, d. C. And her role at ndi she helps bridge the gap between Technology Policy and democracy and is a regular contributor to the Foster Digital ecosystem that supports democracy worldwide. Thank you ladies. Its really a pleasure to share the stage with you and will appreciate your thought leadership in this area. So we heard remarks about the nato upcoming summit and some plans of integrating women peace, and security7c more deeply into natos priorities, but jenna, i would like to start with you too may be give us some reflection but also maybe confection lies the 75th anniversary summit thats going to be held in d. C. Thanks, thank you and welcome back to the council. Great to be a benevolent today at at a special thanks to our secure future for your partnership. We are really in many ways it feels somewhat like full circle moments with a serious anniversary bishopric were coming up on the 25ton 1325 which are ushered him this movement of women, peace and security, and with that the National Action plan, miller states around the world. We have of course the 75th anniversary of nato coming, and washington will host the summit this summer, a date we are tracking very closely at Atlantic Council because we will play a really Important Role in the p is a Civil Society beating for that this summer. We do that of course amidst open war in europe, a war which is in ukraine but is in many ways a war that is being contributed to supplied by many countries around the world the United States probably. The backdrop against which were having these conversations i think is one of particular urgency and poignancy because russias war in ukraine which is really i think russias war with the west more probably get we also went with a the expression of what i think is wps nato moments with sweden and finland. We think in particular of course about former foreign minister Margaret Wahlstrom legacy of a feminist Foreign Policy in sweden and even though it w was in 2022, we know undoubtedly there is this l integration with Security Movement in sweden that will become a part of this conversation as they enter nato here can likewise with finland. Huge legacy of womens equality and genderbased equity. So curious to see how the accession of these two Member States changed the the complexion of some of the conversation. Its an important moment and especially as we hopefully begin over the horizon port remember to have his voice at the table for not just the war fighting as well. Thank you. Im going to jump to sahana. So in your reflection countries because your work on democra promotion and technology your reflections on ms. Fellin comments. Jenna was talk about alliances et cetera. Would love to hear your perspective. And thank you sahana, for having me joining to today. Its always a pleasure to be a with two of my my favorite organizations come Atlantic Council and i think the remarks which stood out to me is a transition over the 75 years and this evolution of watching one of the most enduring multilateral organizations in the world will embrace this concept of multistakeholder ism which is inherently women and security of the full participation of all people in decisionmaking to make us more secure. So the absolute redefinition of security and as were into or we are a quarter into this year more election goodwill than weve ever seen before at the threats to democracy both on the periphery of nato but also in the balkans from asia. We are seeing a rise in the need for all of us to Pay Attention to these issues especially around emerging technology. Not just an Information Space when you see when its full chilled in elections and in their ability to access information, but we are also seeing it in increasing the security threats increase threats to surveillance. So the very tools that democracies that nato is using to potential help make us more secure can also pose a threat to 50 of the global population in particular. So these conversations cant be more critical than coming to the table and figuring out how to rectify those differences how we ensure that we over time and try to protect ourselves in trying to secure the direction of free enterprise, free societies, we dont inherit we dont destroy that from the inside by increasing the use these technologies to threaten our very security that we are trying to achieve. Yeah. Melanie, you work on a lot of these conflicts that we are talking about from the womens refugee perspective. What are your reflections on some of, irene talked about the inclusions of society and voices. How much of think are being included in the conversation . Well, thas youre going to last is like echoing everybody saying do that in shorthand way to grow great to be with you sahana. Always appreciate your partnership and great to be with Atlantic Council. Pretty new to wrc such a great way to get a kick off my tenure here. In terms of m important wps has a a recognition that it has in nato and in the upcoming summit. I think what we really see some challenges are two help with time to talk more about them. One is related to what you said about in the interest of protecting women because the face of so many security threats, particularly women who were displaced by conflict and crisis we kind of default and use it as an excuse to exclude them from leadership. Because want to prioritize keeping people safe. So thats a real issue and are some Solutions Women are doing Amazing Things run the world particularly forcibly displaced women, refugees, women who are crisis but they need our help and support and we need to follow their lead because they their excellent recommendations and ideas of how to build peace. So again saying it is great and there been many strides over the last 25 25 years and including women in decisionmaking and following the lead of women but theyre so much what we can do from the kind of mundane. Women cannot be literally be at the table if they cant get on the bus because its unsafe for them to get on the bus to go to the meeting right . Things like that that address womens security. In less women are safe were not going to have security, and that particularly to a displaced. So thats one point. The other one is ongoing this is not really and anniversary but were pretty close to him going to throw it in there come is the anniversary of the 1951 convention on the status refugees which followed world war ii which is really our framework for protecting people who are fleeing persecution. It doesnt address all of our modern challenges. It addresses a very specific, we talk about climate refugees. Its not really, i knew we know what that means of refugees is a legaterm. Established in 1951 Convention People are fleeing persecution based on race, religion, tionality, membership in a social group or political opinion. Thats where refugee is. In the 1951 convention, obligated states to protect refugees. Puts some requirements on refugees themselves on how they must support themselves, but basically its about the states protecting refugees. What were seeing now is kind of a race to the bottom. We have this massive crisis. We have people millions of people millions more who will be displaced by conflict, by Climate Change, by the conflict accomplice andte change, and we are taking a very deterrence enforcement only approach. So some of the recommendations will be including women in addressing some of these challenges and the world kind of coming together in a more kind of coordinated way to address these challenges that are not walls and blockades because we know thats not going to work. I think what you have said really underscoring the fact that okay, now we know, its almost 25 years for women peace, and security, we know now we need women at the decisionmaking table. Its been for a lot of good reasons butuite happening but this multilateralism the push towards multilateralism and strengthening alliances can really be an entry point for that particularly made of being a leader in womens peace and security and addressing the goals. This is an interesting point to turn back to you jenna about how can nato better integrate peace perspective . They are talking about creating new policies, asking these Civil Society groups to add their perspective. But can you give use examples . How are these countries actually doing this . I think there are a number of important p here and having some societies voice structure included in conversations is really important one. I think nato like many multilateral institutions struggles a bit with opacity and not havin its processes and its own diplomacy be accessible to external parties. So extending a logical and structured entry point for the women, peace and security agenda internet is an important part of this. The other piece of this iund nato right now has been reaching that 2 gdp threshold commitment for defense spending. One of the things we know from our wps work is that asked Hillary Clinton looks at some length right thing to do, its the smart thing to do. And if you talk about a month in which you address we have this unprecedented level of a global refugee crisis in many respects, and a tremendous number of people forcibly displace and on the move at a time institutions are unable to meet that demand, that is especially the time to ensure that these resources are used really wisely. We know by including women in these decision moments not just because that disproportionally impacted my conflict but also because they are a durable peace that also needs to be part of that would be think about resourcing when it comes to addressing these crisis. This is one of the Important Roles that our secure organizations play is reminding these organizations of not just the right space and to equity. That is a big part of what will be on the table for conversations around nato as we approach the 75th. So you want to see not just a commitment to womens peace and security but from signaling and ng at the summit, at least a discussion about that . I think its on peoples minds because of resource in question has so dominated the midst of our own u. S. Congressional continuing battle over funny this ukraine supplemental as european and native partners continue to try to reach their own threshold commitments and things of that nature. We need to be think about how we continue to provide force security not just in a conflict faced but in a reconstruction phase. As a look at the data and we know that women at the table into his these moments of conflict and also at the peace table creates more durable and long lasting peace, that is one element of addressing this resourceconstrained environment. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, Something Else you have mentioned all of you mentioned, is the role of women as agents of change and of advancing the rulesbased order your moira id like to turn to you about this because your work is in the democracy and technology field. I think would be really interesting for our audience to hear more about how women are leading some responses to some of the threats that you phrase earlier. Yes. I think one thing that is been very positive about a lot of these dynamics is a a look at the Technology Space we saw governments often the opportunities and the threats to social media now that when in this age of look at generative ai were seeing governments respond very quickly. To the point where we have 50, 60 global conversations happening about the issue right now, and a part of that is the bias that we know exist in the data sets that are both used to protect us but also help create the Information Space we want to see. One great example of where were seeing forward action is in the Global Partnership for action on ending Online Harassment and abuse. There are 14 member countries of them are nato countries and their working together to redefine the space first of all to give us definitions about issues like genderut also then saying what to countries need to do . We can have this be the people versus thnology companies. They do have a responsibility but we need to help shape the future. Its good to be both an opportunity and a challenge for organizations like nato urges inherently defensive to look at what is the outcome we want, what is the durable peace look like instance in Information Space that the harm done to women around gender disinformation happen online. This isnt going going from online to offline, right . And do we see what we see on her social media pages then reflected in streets . This is about the chilling of the conversation, the stalling of peace the threat of disinformation around democratic systems thats happening online. And so what were going to need and what we see women doing around the world is leading in that conversation. We can point to ukraine where the most durable countering disinformation efforts to authoritarian actors are dominant led women in looking at those threats. We see it in taiwan which is a secondary and major concern of nato where we see threats coming to taiwanese businesswomen taiwanese political leaders and the threats they are experiencing threatening the full participation of women. This is all by design. I think we have to look to a lot of these overlapping alliances of the Global Partnership of the Freedom Online coalition and look at opportunities where we can build on each energy to everyone and establish their swim lanes in the sense can do what they are best at and work understanding where were trying to get to. So that means not just rising in the streets or were all secure and safe in her houses a we come back and cover what we are really able to freely participate in Elections Come in political discourse and actively driving forward to an Inclusive Society and inclusive democracy that nato and other organizations stand for. Thank you. You mentioned some concrete examples from ukraine and i won. Would you mind giving one of the examples as an illustration for the ideas . Because i think sometimes its hard we hear womens movement, and we hear this is where we show agency. But what does it look like . So, and this is hard, right because this is what i think about, im reflecting on the fact when nato first went online on social Media Companies and now were seeing social Media Companies being a constituency and part of town nato brings companies to the table right in the way we see defense contractors and the Defense Industry be. Business of what women face friends authoritarian actors are using to undermine the leadership of women just. This case the president but undermine the dissipation right of the women because i dont want to experience being harmed and its working and thats why they do it. What we are doing by protecting but summation in that case throughout europe it is creating democratic ice we want to see putting action on government and rebel can be that remember what underscore its very clear democracy the kind of alliance countries that are trying supporting the order where everyone can participate she are actively targeting women in particular not just to undermine the individual to undermine the system of democracy. Happen where on the verge of joining nato think about questioningleadership undermining the content. Think we need to sit back and realize we are seeing what it a National Security agenda. You got women as change and it has a powerful way to address these issue we love to hear she with the recomndations to m forward. Looking at completely Different Things this intent to marginalize women but they could interesting. Everything youre saying up whether they are advocates or women in their communities offer everything they know all the dissertations they trusted trying to make a life for themselves or they might not have status facing mcginnis either families really relied on crops for generations thousands of years failing and all the instability and on top of that is the gendere issues lack of access to healthcare and sed violence and layered on top of that is the demonization of refugees and when the world hes countries like ours and some of us have the capacity u. S. And countries in europe its a challenge we have capacity to integrate and volunteers are about these issues, what does it look like to the rest of the world where it actually is a fight for resources really say no more we offer to welcome you you . Investing in them and led organizations makes a huge difference. It pays money dividends women responsible for taking care of the kids missing in the communities and often tasked with doing a lot of the work. Some of the things we can do in terms of women let organizations, ukraine is a great example a delegation of ukrainian actress for the commission bringing two highlevel criminal juvenile ngos in bringing some amazing actress and lgbt who led ukraine mother so much capacity around the world that will have a high level developed Civil Society like ukraine and what any ngos need trump leadership from we need to get them to the table and create the situation for their safe and secure participate this is where we can make progress there. Would you like to see women woman . It goes across all nato priorities rebuilding from her re refugee women place is not all me millions of people displaced for the reasons and talk about the impact of the insecurity that leads to what they are doing in their own community to make lives better for their own communities. Investments like healthcare. Unity based of learned doctors and nurses available they train people so all of this leads to more security not the order anymore, its horrible so all this should be a priority for global security. And select from all your comments we need to think about and what they are showing us security is just talking orders and territory anymore. Security pictures online we be safe over here while you are unsafe over there and thats not the reality anymore. Yeah. What would be interesting from a what is he recommendation to take under consideration this worker . Whats interesting is how the nature of warfare has been. In the gray zone conflict and we are asked the days of armies coming overls asymmetric warfare plan. We have so much child war in this wide spectrum of conflict that has expanded dramatically. Increasing nature of online conflict is where nato and reflection. Other multilateral institutions and individual nations really think about security in this case. How security in a multilateral sense . Is are questions. Where are yours when it comes to Cyber Attacks . About escalation local proportionality . We know also women are at the forefront of online abuses especially from our like in the nature of how these moments are online whether it the psi taiwan pacific to degrade the leadership profile of the Senior Leader into islands in the real world it is Large Language Models and we know a. I. Georgia contributed. Womens voices are marginalized online your pieces looking at wikipedia and womens voices online are not representative of women of the world. He began to think about how the nature becomes encoded in our Security Systems piece of the questions need to taken consideration as you think about worker. It is directly related to the origin of women whe saying post conflict we want to be part of the constitution writing look institution such and design of the world we want to live in such an what youre saying the same place with the Digital Ecosystem which. I think its true. We have so much conflict are going to result around the peace table in the way we want once might have and to think about all those decisionmaking, it is so much more fractured and layered that having a strategy to approach is when i worked on this many years ago physical moment of competing peace we dont have a lot of moments like that because so much of the nature of conflict is that gray zone short of war so how do you think about security . Something with got to contend with. What are your thoughts . Connect i dont know if i even remember. If you want to go back this is something advocates or refugees and migrants have been saying for many years from equal enforcement and security doesnt mean fortifying orders more buil security involves talking to Civil Society particularly organizations that can talk about issues that dy affect them and they engage in trying to address because nobody else is coming to help them soif we continue down this path of ripping out the foundation of mark which is going to lead to more chaos. Migrants and refugees arriving europe at the u. S. Border, its a globalized phenomenon. Everywhere there true been so it goes to what youre saying a globalized chaotic with no cooperation beyond deterrence and we need much more engagement and Civil Society of women that up with Real Solutions to build peace and maintain more because when you have chaos it invites here and society rejecting a newcomer demonized and its because nobody likes the feeling of chaos. We are at a really critical moment. I am optimistic. We have organizations like nato and others acknowledged that we are doing it wrong if we limit conversations to brussels, washington and Silicon Valley realize the most effective solution come from the women in the south who have developed plans and strategies who redefined security in their own senseave at first seen the problems first and identify them long before others got there and we can look at this and say bonds in the borders and connecticut things we salmon we all know theres a lot going on underneath there and we can look at another anniversary, weve been talking about a lot of fun butreason anniversary the conflict in Northern Ireland the women who provide the common redefined security at a local level this is for all of these organizations to include nato. Going back to the beginning we heard about new efforts to bring in Civil Society but we have to redefine that relationship bring more people to the table. It will look like it takes time and feel messy as democracies can often feel but ultimately its what makes us develop solutions that are going to lead us to the durable peace. She developing the mechanics to address it i think are a major cap we should leave behind the population as we do. I want to end with this question for all you what surprised you the most working on this issue . How hard you have to fight to just get in the room . Should. We could just get in the room it would be great to spend less of mying moms and more time solving them. Say surprised but inspired and all by those who engage in this fight in the challenges. Unimaginable persistence especially thinking about the population should and in light of all that they are facing mark demonization genderbased violence in all of those things and worrying about their kids all of those things, which they show up go to the meetings and find each other and make progress. I dont know if i want to say surprising but its something we should all remember its frustrating the norm is a ace of us about future of our own country these women everyday what they put every thing and to make our Community Safer and also present minds. Im a little surprised we are having the same conversations i feel having 25 years. [laughter] on the one hand it feels impossibly slow. On the other hand having just returned from a security conference Everybody Knows why it matters and its not the same youre still having the conversation but theres much less education happening so i do feel like theres been progress made just impatient these things do take time. Ive met heads of state, somebody women chief assistance was so many ministers for whom this is an obv strategy. It is not the first fan or second its a part of the fabric in the way t doing their strategy work. We continue in this moment where we are thinking about democracy k foot and pressure of authoritarianism around the world she. Lets remember equity and inclusion and authoritarian this is not a conversation just for a conversation for all these loving able and all societies security and access to livelihood and peace and prosperity so more urgent than ever before to get this right because it is also an insurance policy against the societal underpinnings that brings us the ability longterm. When women are bringing up issues many youth talked about online Early Warning signs nato and others should be taking into account because as you say this is a moment were in how can we better integrate Early Warning into the conversation coming up . You can look at any society in the way that it is an indicator and what exists more broadly. Where it exists where it might be exploited. It is there a lot of struggles of the table end up with think about the cost forive peace we have to be attentive to those things which. Over to move to q a. Let me take a look and see what we have from the audience. Okay. This is a little tricky but i think you guys can handle it. What has nato learned from the Current Situation and afghanistan were decades of efforts to promote security failed . How does nato partner in promoting security or womens security in the region . The reason i chose that is have partners in the Indo Pacific Region or want to be partnershis challenge of working in conflict zones places where we dont have partners protecting womens rights is a good one so what have we learned what you think nato has learned . Specifically in respect to afghanistan . Yes. In my working on conflict stabilization comfortable the lesson ive taken away as changes durable when there is strong on both sides. There has to be a little strong constituency committed to that great look at the successes of f that countrys commitment to securing its use they outspend u. S. By a long shot. For all the extraordinary work done advancing education and so many things it is heartbreaking how quickly it has receded. I think what we are missing and summary things lacking but its a broadbased commitment to theres only so much that can be done to force back change externally. It is tremendouslyxqeaking heartbreaking. So many of us who have worked on these issues over the last 20 plus years be a lot cleared personally but the durable change has to require some kind of local ongoing commitment to ensure should that is sustained. I think theres a lesson in estioning the word culture and whats allowed to take place in the name of culture culture understanding. We saw in afghanistan and around the world and if we take a lesson maybe start with you and question it is a decisionmaker look allow it to go by, firstve that moment, let the hair grow up in the back of your neck but your saint and no maybe you need to look at policy options us to avoid what is talked about their i think one thing the women in afghanistan get rest of us is the impo perspective security did something that didnt exist before that time we had an afghanistan more familiar with people dont necessarily have to do a lot of explaining, we have to get more people to do it it. I think we have time for one question i guess not backward but couple of examples may be about information and gender. We have a question about examples from ukraine examples . I hesitate because to protect the women involved, i dont want to exploit too much but i recently returned from kenya where i was able to do consultation w of Civil Society women engaged in this and looking for Solutions Show local political leaders we see far attacked brother marital status there religion and abilities and vertt their public record. Theres another legislator who talks about my gender weve the. You can talk about cases one of the womens of the nobel prize regularly experienced online abuse and having silenced moral the story women locally personally and afghanistan the number one issue retrain a lot of democratic activists is the number one reason they say that. She pain note it will come but is the online abuse because ofoes to the families and ability to learn and income should and how hard they have to work just to have a voice so theres way too many examples to count and the other women we have seen on a global scale who experience this and get up for new zealand. They want to talk about the issues. Many people in the Refugee Community forced to confront the only within transnationally but also globally and among local leaders. They dont want to talk about their gender, they want to achieve peace all caps and secure outcomes. I see we are out of time for more questions but it has been a pleasure to have us conversation. Questions that hopefully will get to another time. I would you for your attendance and participation in this conversation and i hope we have more, its a pleasure to moderate and i encourage you to stay tuned. We look forward to seeing you again soon. [applause]