Transcripts For CSPAN2 NCAA 20240703

See spent your unfiltered view of politics. The president of the ncaa Charlie Baker joined the commissioner of the big ten tony National Former team gymnast Trinity Thomas and others to testify on compensation for College Athletes. For the use of their name, image and likeness for they testify before the Senate Judiciary committee advocating for a federal standard. And discussing the need for transparency and equity. [background noises] the hearing of the Judiciary Committee is called to order. Please take your seats. And welcome to all of our witnesses. I am very grateful to my colleague senator durbin for giving me this opportunity to chair the hearing. And we wish him a very, very speedy recovery. He evidently had knee surgery. I believe it may have been because of a College Sports injury. And i do not know exactly all of the details of his stork prayer list. Ive seen him in the senate jim. All of you know our colleague senator booker who is truly a College Athlete star and very knowledgeable on this topic and a partner with me a longstanding efforts to reform the system i want to thank Ranking Member senator graham who has been very interested and involved in this issue im going to put in the record a statement from chairman durbin before i began my remarks. We all know today that this system of College Athletes is in need of reform. That is why you are here. It is in need of reform now. Which is why we are here. Then system, all too long and often has been exploited and a piece of financially emotionally physically. And we have had a number of hearings and other committees. The Commerce Committee as well as this one. I am hopeful this very impressive Bipartisan Group of witnesses can help to guide us toward specific steps with a sense of urgency that is appropriate for this kind of problem. The system very simply has been far more focused on profits and protecting students. It has failed to safeguard them against the abusive and often exploitive system that takes advantage of their blood, sweat, tears in creating a 16 billiondollar industry. Make no mistake it is a 16 billion or more industry that is fueled by the blood, sweat, tears of these athletes. And all too often they failed to benefit from it. Many states have passed in il legislation. The Supreme Court has ruled nins forced in the sense a day of reckoning. I believe strongly we need a National Standard for name, image, likeness. Mainly to protect the athletes against potential disreputable agents or unscrupulous deals. In a race to the bottom monks a patchwork of states. Protect the school its unfair competition but also the athletes themselves. The standard is what brings us here today and a very immediate sense. Student athletes are better off now than they were. Many of your organizations recognize the need for b change. Charliean baker the head of the outline the reforms they have taken voluntarily. We have already and heard alarming examples of the instances of exploitation and abuse. Every year at least two College Football players. Of heatstroke. Just three bucks ago from midamerica nazarene and kansas found in the locker room after football practice suffering a seizure with the body temperature of 108 degrees. He never recovered and died a week later. Heatstroke is one of the most gruesome ways toer die. Its horrible. Its absolutely preventable. These deaths are product of bullying, win at all costs culture that is far too common and Athletic Department. That culture creates the condition that cost thees livesf talented young men and women. It fostered the abusive hazings thatss weve seen at baylor, northwestern and jose state and elsewhere. In the past years has failed to address this abuse as quickly and effectively as it should have. I agree we should set a strong National Standard we ought to enshrine it and federal law enforceable. Not just put in the statute. But make sure it is enforceable. Senator booker and i have proposed an athletes bill of rights. Or through some other means. As importantly as an il though, it we need to address enforceable health and Safety Standards. Much more broadly and comprehensively. We need to ensure College Athletes are able to get an education and return for their blood, sweat, tears. In july i was proud to announce a draft bipartisan bill was senator booker and senator moran. The College Athletes protection and compensation act. Our draft legislation would establish a strong National Standard. It would also protect the wellbeing and educational success of student athletes. Our student athletes rightss package what set health and Safety Standards to protect College Athletes from serious injury. Mistreatment, abuse, and even death. It would guarantee tuition and aid to student athletes to have a severe ending injury or cut front seat would establish a medical trust fund to help healthcare for longterm injuriesle resulting from collee athletes participation in sports and would bring transparency to the end il market in two College Athlete program. We talk about these kind of reforms for more than a decade its time for action is now. Their lives ongoing. Careers are at stake. Individuals who really need to deserve this kind of protection and i am very grateful to senator durbin and the committee for addressing this topic and i would like to turn now to the Ranking Member. Thank you center blumenthal. We are hoping senator durbin time will get back soon were not shortest time will be after the case i want to run 40 i dont know what it takes. Going to try to get set or bookers number and put it online to see if we can make a little money. But many were number were you . Eightyone. We meet today with the world on fire. To my democratic colleagues you been very good to work with and trying to find a response to this horrific attack against israel that will make the world a better and safer place. The fun things like American College support points that everyone out there know this committee is working hard to try to find a way to be helpful. In terms of being helpful, where i come from in South Carolina and many people on this side College Footballs not a sport it was a religion. [laughter] we are very concerned about where this thing is going. There is a lot of bipartisan support there needs to be a National Standard. All. Of your schools need to hae some guidance. If you make them employees you will knock out especially womens athletics will go away. As you try to elevate some of the star players to make sure they get a piece of the pie we do not want to create an environment for division ii or Smaller Division i schools. Will be knocked g out of the gae because they cannot afford it. I want still to be an amateur sport to the best we can. So tote me i want to associate myself with what senator blumenthal said. There needs to be a federal standardta. Utah is offering everyone on the team a new truck. There is no end to this. Donors are out there competing ferociously pro sports you signed a contract which means no ones going to take that player away from you for certain period of time. E. You got a chance to get your money back. From the portal and an il College Football is an absolute chaos. And we need to fix it. National legislation is only way to fix it. Our desire to protect the athlete which is a worthy goal we cannot destroy by making it so expensive non revenuegenerating sports. Went to make sure athletes at every level in college, smaller colleges can play too. That is the goal. I look forward to trying to find the solution. Thank you. Think is that her grandpa and i will introduce the witnesses will swear them in turn to their statements were pleased to have all of you hereav today. Charlie baker our first witnesses present the National Athletic association or the ncaa. Mr. Bakers a former basketball player at harvard who also happen to serve as governor ofr massachusetts from 2015 to 2023. We are joined by tony commissioner of the big ten conference. The big 10 power five conferences and home to several powerhouse College Athletic programs. Which i know George Albert would like to know includes northwestern university. Our next witness is trinity tumnus and all american gymnast at the university of florida. Among her many accomplishments she is a twotime honda award winner given to top female in College Gymnastics and holds ncaa record with perfect tens for 28. He is currently pursuing a second masters degree has built an impressive an il portfolio. We are joined by executive directorut of College Players at National College of Players Association organization he helped to found for College Athletes rights. He earned a bastion bachelors degree from ucla where he was a member of the Football Team has been very helpful in the past but also in helping us shape legislation. Mr. Walker jones executive director designed to help athletes at the university of mississippi monetize their end il rights mr. Jones graduate with a bachelor degree from the university of mississippi where he was a member of the College Football team. Mr. Jill Vice President director of athletics at st. Josephs university. Member of the board of directors of womens leaders in sports. She can speak to the perspective how smaller universities are dealing with the advent of an il. Finally jack Vice President director of athletics of notre dame. Helped shape modern College Athletics. Earlier this year he coauthored oped in the New York Times discussing the state of College Sports. We welcome all of you would you please rise to take the oath . Do you swear the testimony will give t is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Thank you. Mr. Baker will begin with your testimony please. [inaudible] and that your microphone may not be on. Better . Whats okay. Thank you very much center blumenthal to younk into Ranking Member graham the distinguished members of the committee andgu want to start by thanking you all for theg opportunity to be here today. Before i begin i want to say on behalf of College Sports generally actually condemn the recent violence perpetrated by hamas. Thesee acts were horrific, hard to comprehend our thoughts are with the people of israel and the innocence involved in that conflict sprayed advance of my testimony today we did speak with leaders from all three divisions and others to ensure im speaking first brought a collection of nca voices asec possible. This has lead time to address College Sports speaks to their importance princess of ticket to an education for half a million young people generating 4 billion in college age. College sports are a cornerstone to countless campuses and in turn they are cornerstones for thriving communities. College sports are americas olympic pipeline 75 of the 2022 team usa coming up through our nca sports for College Sports are also long overdue for a change. Im proud to say we happen doing something about that. Since i took over nca president seven months ago we. Student Athlete Health Insurance Fund provide all athletes across all three divisions access to Health Insurance for athletically related injuries for up to two years post eligibility or graduation. Every d1 school is required to provide Healthcare Benefits degree completion funds for at least 10 years after the stop competing and Mental Health services to their student athletes. Scholarships are protected schools must offer academic counseling, Financial Literacy and career preparation. We prioritize equitable temperatures experiences and direct National Office leadership to put gender equity the center of everything they do. Nca also continues to advance common sense changes to Sports Betting policies enforcement policies that penalize the adults, the young people. Nca is knitting and ill buy less forward to improve outcomes for student athletes, we share your concerne there they deserve to profit from an il free from manipulation. These changes are long overdue there happening now thanks in part to calls for action from members of this committee from the student athletes themselves. There are some issues College Sports based that we cannot address on our own. I knew an il bylaw proposal requires student athletes to disclose certain information to their schools only and offers to use fair contract terms refutable agents. We want to partner with congress to go further and curtail inducements prevent collectives and other third parties from tampering with students we would like to have a National Standard or a patchwork of laws as you pointed out center blumenthal currently exists. Schools, conferences ncaa are making changes to the benefits we provide to enable enhanced benefits or protecting programs from a onesizefitsall approach we support codifying current Regulatory Guidance angela by granting student athletes special status would affirm employees at this point we are not alone. I visited Augustana College in south dakota a few months ago was senator jon through to your student athletes talk about why they dont want to become employees. Thee elected student athlete represents about three divisions are on recordd saying the same thing. They fear the current legal landscape turning them into employees call for action for the athletic conferences representing the vast majority of historically black colleges and universities have also supported this policy. They believe the progress they have made educated young people of color would be at risk of their Athletic Departments had become e employers. We also then theres opportunity for congress to ensure this new era theres no discrimination on the basis of race, gender, sport and the marketing or facilitation of an il agreements. Lastly want to part with congress to grant limited Liability Protection we consider reasonable composition standards and enforce Student Health and wellbeing requirements with direction from congress. Let me just close with this. We are grateful for the time youre giving us today and t appreciate the chance to Exchange Ideas with you. I learned serving as governor of governorthe legislative branch s immense power and rightfully yields it sparingly. But i believe we can find Common Ground on this and look forward to helping student athletes succeed in this new era. Thank you. Thanks governor baker. Thank you. Center blumenthal, Ranking Member graham distinguished members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to discuss the burning issues with athletic include name, image, likeness commonly known as an il but they give a strong commitment to find legislative solutions. We have been working close to center screws, blumenthal and booker proposal i am encouraged to the strong interest facing college boys my name is tony and since ive been proud to serve a seventh commission of the big ten conference the countrys oldest division i collegiate conference. Although i believe in the big Ten Commission for six months i have a long history of working professional College Sports particulate major league baseball. I am also a former student athlete was first in my family to attend college. Like millions of americans being a College Athlete only pursue a Higher Education while continuing to follow my passion for sports which for me was baseball. Big ten conference deeply committed to Academics Research and broadbased sports opportunities for all students. We take great pride and success of our student athletes both inside and outside of the classroom during their time big ten institutions as well as after words. Student Athlete Health and welfare is a top party for us at the big ten. We provide oncampus and postseparation healthcare which guarantees our student athletes have access to medical care and Mental Health services both during and after their time on campus. All the big ten and other conferencesid currently provide these important benefits the big ten is open to and supports efforts to discuss Additional Health and wellness benefits for student athletes. As we have allll discussed in recent years longstanding athlete model has undergone incredible and Rapid Transformation we see this events as an opportunity fundamentally modify the dynamics that exist for student athletes. We are prepared to modernize our guidelines, create a new framework for collegiate athletics. When that more fairly provides benefits to student athletes directly from member institutions, maintain broadbased sports opportunities for men and women upholds title cix. We see four main challenges that must be addressed by proper regulation to better protect and serve our student athletes on support a new governing structure. N first, there are now more than 30 different state laws related to name image and likeness many states are passing an il associate laws designed specifically to provide instate universities with a competitive advantage in recruiting to the promise of an il. To provide certainty equity competitive balance the uniform federal statute is needed to preempt this network of state laws. Second, because of a competent competitioncourt decision curret litigation state actions ncaa is unable to make or enforce commonsense regulations governig athletics. Through Legislation Congress should grant limited conditional Liability Protections we can set enforce reasonable competitive standard student welfare. Third is the ability to effectively identify true and il deals paper plate or inducement schemes. With the rise student athletes are frequently being induced to clear and specific institution transfer from one school to another without a true and il deal. This results in a paper play system primarily controlled by boosters and exercise under the guise nil. Its shipping away from the universities to collectives. The big ten will continue to support students making true business deals off their name, image, likeness provide student athletes to choose the institutions from which they will obtain an education. We do not however support such activity when its time for a pay for play scheme disguises nil part simply put collegiate sports environment has evolved so too has some motivation and goals of many collectives which are now trying to create competitive advantages are not subject to title ix. We are already seeing payments from collectives will not be easy to stay in. Without action from congress will continue to lack the ability to manage collegiate athletics. From the want to touch on the question with a student athlete should be classified as employees. Not only Employment Status complex its contrary to the educational model that is long flourished in American Collegiate athletic. Big ten sterling supports proposals to codify benefits for student athletes that guarantee consistency across sports without thing to classify student athletes as employees. With many new challenges on the horizon would look to congress for your partnership in helping us embrace change. In short we tackle these new challenges effectively while celebrating and promoting College Athletics. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you today to look forward to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Ms. Thomas . Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here today. I spent the last five years competing on the university of floridas gymnastics team. Over the course of my time at uf i have completed my bachelors degree in applied physiology and kinesiology my masters degree in Health Education and behavior. I had the privilege of competing before and after name image and likeness opportunities became available for student athletes. The experiences i have had along the way have helped me develop into the young woman that i am today. Im currently serving student assistant coach for the Gymnastic Team at the university of florida. While pursuing a second masters degree in Entrepreneurship Training for a chance to compete at the u. S. Lipid trials in 2024. As a student athlete at the university of florida ive had the opportunity to receive an education for the top five university will also competing against some of the best gymnast in then. Nation. Campaigning against the best athletes of the biggest stages has provided me with more opportunities than is ever imagined possible when he started gymnastics is a little girl in pennsylvania. One of the biggest opportunities College Gymnastics has given me is the ability to benefit from the changes nil policies that have recently come to College Athletics. Soon athletes were not able to benefit from an il when i first arrived at the universityy of florida i was immediately intrigued once the rules were changed. It took many of me and my fellow athletes time toel learn to navigate the waters of an il. Everyone is still learning as we go. Given it is a new and uncharted territory. It is been interesting to navigate but isbl able to interview sign with agencies partner with various companies, learn to become an entrepreneur, focus on building my brand and work on so many cool personal projects that mean a lot to me. The First Year Student athletes hadd the ability to take advantage of an il i was able to ipad her younger siblings as christmas gifts. Because gymnastic cams ability to promote the fact becoming to work with them. Work with companies to support women sports and more. Unfortunately one of the parts of an il that makes it difficult for student athletes was very laws and regulations in place from state to state. There currently is no single standard that applies to all student athletes in all sports which oftentimes leaves us confused. In some cases the different laws play certain athletes at a disadvantage depending upon where they go to school. Recently i was invited to attend on the hill in washington d. C. To speak with representatives from congress. Most of my discussion centered route nil allowed me too share my personal experiences as a student athlete including how an nil policies have impacted me personally. Both the positive in the areas where there could still be improvement. While discussions are positive it seems clear to best path forward for everyone would be if we had a federal nil policy apply to all athletes from every sport at every school in every level. This will create equal opportunity for all student athletes to benefit from an il book a uniform standard to ensure were playing by the same rules and eliminate confusion and unfair advantage. A federal law will also have the benefit of ensuring the future sports like gymnastics are protected. As this is the hotbeds for showcasing and developing olympic talent. It will be a huge loss that would be felt well beyond just College Athletics of the spores are put at risk to any future legislation would come from one state or another. Protecting the future of my sport and the dozens of other sports that have developed future olympians o should be a p priority. Not only do women and live exports of the collegiate level help young women alike may receive a College Education but they also help athletes benefit from the very same nil opportunities that i have had experience during my time as a student athlete at the university of florida. While College Sports took a step forth nil during my time as a student athlete, more can still be done to better the lives of all student athletes. I am hopeful will soon have a National Standard future College Athletics will be improved for the next generation of great student athletes. Thanks for taking the time to focus on a topic thats important to meta and hundreds f thousands of student athletes all over the nation. Thank you so much ms. Thomas. Good morning. First i like to thank chairman durbin and Ranking Member graham senator blumenthal further testified today. The national College Players association served as a sponsor the first state and successfully fought for the passage of laws and a dozen other states. Now have the ability to earn an il compensation just like other students in american citizens. As hers in cpas fought for because athletes nil should not be a priority for congress because athletes arty have these freedoms. There are some nil related areas it should be finetuned such as athlete agent certification there are more important issues that just really need congress to prioritize. Instead of adopting an il only bill, congress should include broadbased reform thats critical to protecting college t athletes. Many are shocked to learn nca refuses to enforce Safety Standards. Its not against instate rules for college f athletic personnel to force an athlete back into the same game with a concussion, sexually abuse in athlete or kill an athlete and hazardous workout. Instead of helping they coldly respond they have no duty to protect College Athletes. Then whose duty is it . These collegeshi receive federal funds while crating Hazardous Conditions for their athletes. An cpa stance that congress has responsibility to protect College Athletes. Assess committee in congress not to fall the nca lead by skirting this important duty. In cpas grateful for so many members this committee taking an active role trying to adjust problems and legislation we believe there can be a bipartisan solution they can iron out some of the issues as well as bringing forth critical broadbasedug reform. Including the enforcement of Safety Standards. Coverage for athlete sportswear to medical expenses and prohibiting nca from discriminating against female because athletes like we saw during its march madness tournament. An cpa is working closer centers booker, blumenthal on a bipartisan it includes important broadbased reforms. The draft continues to head in a promising direction. As a practical matter any bipartisan can move to this cannot have poison pills would kill it. Such a bill should not attempt to require or prohibit revenuesharing or attempt to give nca sports antitrust exemption . There are strong beliefs about the areas among stakeholders but these issues should be set besides a bipartisan progress can be made in other important areas. Both before and after state nil laws became effective the conferences lobbied congress for antitrust exemption and cpa strongly opposes. Antitrust lawsuits u. S. D. O. J. Antitrust investigations state legislation targeting antitrust violations have brought forth important economic freedoms and protections for College Athletes. Because of antitrust laws they could no longer price fix athletic scholarship below the cost of attending. Limit scholarships to only one year, prohibit colleges and providing medical coverage athletes or been athletes and burning and ianan owe compensat. The ncaa is a chronic antitrust violator and a glaring example of by antitrust laws are needed in this country. Another important issue and one thats worthy of his own separate bill is a harmful conference realignment that would require College Athletes to spend many additional hours traveling e at the expense of academics and health. These developments are nothing but a greedy money grab that treats athletes like commodities and education like a punch line. The expense of education by athletes that for the lowest Graduation Rates is unjustifiable. E. Another problem is that as conferences emerge each team are selling out tv dollars just to give a payment to g coaches sign shiny facilities. Encouraging congress the base conference realignment unreasonable regional proximity is no secret theres partisan divisions in many areas in american lives. Sports is a special area. In cpas work with lawmakers on both sides of the alto pass laws and a red states, blue states and purple states because when it comes to the wellbeing of College Athletes lawmakers care about athletes find themselves in the same team regardless of political party. Every future, current, former College Athlete in each of your states needs you to join this to pass meaningful broadbased legislation, thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Jones. Correct center blumenthal, im also a Founding Member ofthh is comprised of 25 collegiate collectives from across the power five landscape serving as advocates for over 50000 student athletes in 25 sports. Our goal is to serve as a unified voice to shape the development nil market and in College Sports by creating a sustainable t model that gives student athletes the ability to maximize their nil platforms. Current data shows collectives are responsible for approximately 80 of the money being paid to athletes. Given in this figure tca is unique our members possess and are willing to share a firsthand knowledge of how an il is working in your local communities we seek to partner with anyone who wants to produce well informed and effective legislation benefiting collegiate student athletes first. T. Like over stakeholders in College Sports worked everyone in the ecosystem at the point of intersection with an il commerce. Before we delve into the substance let me be very clear about one thing. We are externally bullish in College Athletics. Other aspect of the current model of a new dressing and evolving . Of course for the overwhelming majority of commerce with name image and likeness is positive. Student athlete in the late 90s i can say today student athletes have the resources and ability to deal with the realities that come to them. Whether the play professional sports l or not, athletes have e ability to solve social economic issues, stay in School Longer to further their academic careers, look at the best possible competitive situation athletically beat more functionalo contribute to sociey when they leave their perspective campuses. Finally as tv viewership continues to break records each week and a College Football season this year, this past spring with march madness and basketball, the marketplace for athletes to maximize the value has never been stronger. The end il landscape continues to explain the inevitable growing pains in any freemarket model. The Overall Health of College Athletics is strong. Tca members feel those in this panel todayim and other importat stakeholders share the expertise and passion along with congress to Work Together for longterm sustainability and growth of College Athletics. If need is a mother of all innovation collectives are born from the need for student athletes to have a stable, secure trusted entity representing their interests. Student athletes trust our collectives. This has caused tension at times between our affiliate institutions, collegiate conferences. Student athletes who would otherwise navigate on their own. We root for work for every student athlete not just a superstar athletes. No one to be surprised the majority are experts have benefited women and nonrevenue sports. In fact theres a 20 increase in womens nil deals from 2021 untill 2022 we expect even largr increase at the end of 23. What we as a collective stand for we create opportunities to match with local sponsors, nonprofits and charities while creating avenues to interact with fan base. Their independent businesses separate fromm universities in d the affect apartments are athletes are observed best by the independence we provide resources and tools upper student athletes not only monetize the value but prepare for their future professions and careers. We provide a best practices and standards keep the bad actors out of the marketplace and create c sustainability in the model but would provide transparency and disclosure to University Partners to remain compliant with state and ncaa rules and regulations. And finally most important we are committed to diversity and inclusion and sourcing opportunities for all athletes regardless of the sport they play. Additional thought to be helpful what we of collectives are not we are not owed to our wii agents. Were not Financial Advisors to what we serve that being said most of our collectives provide Financial Literacy, and tax planning assistance with any financial that come our way. We do not participate in the process once we attend our school. Thats best left to coaches and Athletic Department under strict watch. We are not rogue organizations run by outofcontrol boosters and donors with infrastructure staff transparency and universities look for a chance to any and all of your questions request think it mr. Jones. Correct center blumenthal, Ranking Member graham invitation because i fear the voice of institutions liken the saint joes has been lost in the public narrative. As you know College Athletics is extraordinarily diverse. The reality is, at a division i school like saint jo College Athletics is working quite well. Before we consider starting over and transitioning all student athletes across the country to employee status based largely on the issues facing one sport, i would like to tell you a little bit more about why saint joes. We have 478 student athletes which equates to 10 of our student body. We offer 20 sports football is not one of them. We have an incredible departmental culture that is consistent with their Jesuit Mission Holistic Development of her student athletes. Our student athletes go to class they selected majors which they are passionate about. More than half of our student athletes participate in sports that are not bound to a regularseason conference schedule. Our student athletes outperform nonstudent athletes in gpa retention rates and Graduation Rates. Le we have many student athletes who are former olympians, professional athletes, hall of fame coaches but most of our athletes go into very successful careers outside the sports. Last year, just 3. 9 of our undergraduate student athletes transferred. Our annual expense budget is just over 20 million which includes almost half of that which goes toward Student Financial a aid. As you dont many power five institutions has budgets 10 times as large as ours. Our revenue, while growing does not equal our expenses. In fact the university universitysubsidizes our athletc department to the tune of 80 per year. So why does university make this investment . Primarily because athletes benefit and are infringed from the experiences they gain from being a student athlete it prepares them to be the leaders of tomorrow. Division i athletics benefits the entire university by university bycreating a more vis experience in providing national exposure. At saint joes we are not waiting for nca rule to tell is to protect the health and safety immersed in athletes. We do sof because its the right thing to do its fundamental to who we are. We employed dozens of individuals whose sole job is to support the physical and Mental Wellbeing of her student athletes enter academic success. Finally, outside of team travel number one operating expenses student athlete insurance premiums and medical expenses. I hope that you will agree athletics is working quite well for student athletes and in institutions like saint joes. In my opinion the primary crisis facing College Athletics is the threat of her student athletes becoming employees. I practice labor and Employment Law for 15 years before getting into this line of work. I do not believe Employment Status isns the answer and nor o our student athletes. They do not want to have to apply for posted positions when what they are really going for is an education. They do not want to go to the state work, assistant for their injury they do not want to punch a time clock worried about what might be compensable time to the flsa. If our studentathletes are deemed employees we will transition their Financial Aid to wages in order to stay competitive. The taxation differences between wages and tuition are extreme and not in favor of our student athletes. Our 51 International Student athletes want to compete they would not be able to do so as employees due to their f1 status. For these reasons and many more i am passionate about the granting a special status to student athletes that would confirm they are not employees of the respective institutions. On the other hand we desperately need reform when it comes to an il part like most athletic directors ivos been supportive of student athlete nil. The legitimate endorsement deals like those obtained by ms. Thomas are awesome. Especially for women who have limited opportunities in professional sports whose value peaked during their college years. Unfortunately the current nil situation is untenable. For three reasons number one, nil collectives are engaged in bidding wars for the attendance and retention of student athletes. Number two, under current rules title ix does not apply to collectives resulting in disproportionate percentage of collected dollars going toward mail athletes. Number three the patchwork of conflicting state laws governing nil are confusing to everyone especially the student athletes create a profoundly unequal playing field. In some, thank you for your attention today and thank youte especially for hearing the non power five like saint joes and beyond. Think you very, very much. We will now turn to see her on the moderate notre dame. Thank you very much chairman blumenthal, Ranking Member graham and members of the committee. Both for the invitation to be with you today but also for your interest in this important topic. Chairman blumenthal the university of notre dames shars both your sense of urgency and your belief and need for reform. Among the final leg of a 40 year journey to support youth olympic and collegiate athletes. It has been the privilege of a lifetime because it has allowed me too assist on a firsthand basis remarkable young people like ms. Thomas. For whom sports is a. Root to education, leadership to leaderp development into brighter futures. College athletics represents a most compelling example of that for me. Its uniquely American Asset that has enabled education for firstgeneration americans, it made her colleges and universities more diverse places. Contributed to the very fabric of the University Community and sustain and support our Olympic Movement in this country. Evolve ife asset must it is going to continue to deliver those sorts of benefits. We had notre dame understood that. Was evidentan in 2015 when president jenkins became the First University president of the country in an op ed piece to call on the granting of rights for name image and likeness for all student athletes. More recently in an oped piece, father jenkins also demonstrated our support for medical trust fund and for graduation guarantees to student athletes. The Common Thread in that view at the university of notre dame is normalizing the experience of student athletes against that of students were not athletes. That was the basis of arpanet name, image, likeness and ideas if every other student at our campus had that right, why should it student athletes . Similarly where there is a difference based on athletic participation, in this case the risk of injury, in Contact Sports or the potential to leave early to pursue a professional opportunity. The distinction is appropriate why we supported both the medical trust fund and the graduation guarantee. We recognize that reform must continue necessary role for congress to playce in it must accept the responsibility to do more Name Image Likeness and ideas to provide the medical graduation protection to help ensure the opportunity to transfer it does not undermine the opportunity to gain an education in her colleges and universities . Help areas we need your make sure to retain a student athlete status as students in ongoing and stateli legislation its central to our model our student athletes be students and notemployees for many of the ret ms. Just articulated. But most importantly our student athletes do not want a change in status. They come to notre dame to be students. To have the experience of students living in dorms. Going to the same classes pursuing the same mangers. The risk of changing that bottle has many faces but the one that concerns me the most is the risk to our olympic sports and our female sports and colleges and universities. It will create a pressure to separate the sports and with that separation comes a challenge to the funding of our olympic sports. Wewe also need help in preemptig that myriad of state laws which set different standards for College Athletics. College athletics is the quintessential example of interstate commerce. We have more of our contest outside the state of indiana and then in it. And finally we need a way to satisfy the student athletes interesting competitive equity. They want the opportunity to to participate and win. They want to know theres an even playing field. We have to find a way to deliver that to them. That can c come either by empowering the ncaa in a limited area to enable competitive equity or to develop a process by which we can agree with our student o athletes on what those rules and regulation should be. Our student athletes deserve the competitive equity that we need to deliver to them. Thank you very much. Thank you very, very much. I thank you y all for this realy excellent testimony. We are going of questions now from committee members. Will have five minute round. I will begin and then turns the Ranking Member and then we will go in the order of appearance. What i hear is a really strong endorsement of College Athletics as a Unifying Force for our communities and sender graham mentioned College Athletics is a religion in South Carolina but i do not know whether it is in connecticut but we celebrate the victory in connecticut as you know the uconn huskies mens team won their fifth championship. The hockey team was victorious as well. We have parades literally through they streets of hartfod when it happens. You have all highlighted the unique Unifying Force College Athletic place in the opportunity afforded to students. And the unique opportunities that we have. We defined it for reform. I hear are also strong also strn and opposition to classifying athletes as employees. I hear a general feeling the reform very likely should go beyond strictly nil. And what i hear very encouragingly is that some of your colleges, st. Joseph and notre dame most impressively are already embarking on many of the reformrm center booker, moran, d i have proposed. But we need to avoid a race to the bottom in name, image, and likeness. A bidding war among colleges that often tempt College Athletes with unscrupulous deals or agents. And put colleges at the mercy of field. Ual playing what i would like to do is now focus on the reforms that may avoid the need for even that employee status that seems so alluringo to many of her who propose reform. I would like to ask all of you in in the interest of time i will put it to you collectively. Would any of you oppose the creation of a medical trust fund to help cover medicare for student athletes longterm injury . If you would oppose it raise your hand and ill call in you. Nobody opposed at the record should show would you oppose guaranteeing the scholarship of student athletes that suffer anr career endingg injury or who are cut from 18 if you propose it please if you oppose it please raise your hand again the record should show no one here opposed it. Would you oppose setting enforceable Health Safety standards to protect College Athletes from serious injury, mistreatment, abuse, and death . Again no one opposes it. And finally would you oppose a requirement for at least high revenue schools to support the insurance cost and outofpocket medical expenses of student athletes . No opposition. I think your views on this issue are profoundly important to ense we need to think beyond just nil standards. I am struck and this issue has been raised by the difference often in treatment of women athlete. Female athletes are the present system apparently earned approximately 90 per and i deal compared to the 3000 which is the average for mail athletes as reported by the nil platform open doors. It seems to me this area is one where reform is necessary. I would like to ask ms. Thomas for your views on this topic . Can you repeat the question for me please . That this treatment of men women and customers you see it as an i issue in how pressing . Yes, i do see it as an issue. Me, as a female athlete i feel like i have to personally do a lot more. Especially in the end il space to receive what ike feel like i deserve. Thank you for the question senator. Just to bring a little life to that right now atw saint joes mail basketball student athletes i would say demanding but asking what the collective will do for them. That is not happening in any of our women sports i think its actually essential that we find a way to ensure mail and female athletes have equal opportunity to earn nil money. Thank you. My time has expired and going to turn to senator graham i have a lot more questions but will have a second round i hope. And cassandra blumenthal. So if congress does nothing where does this thing go . I think we will wind up with a series of rulings that declare students as employees or other rules and regulations. It will not happen uniformly it will happen serially create an unsustainable difference from state to f state too. Well have a patchwork of state legislation that will also create differences that are unsustainable. That for me are the things most important to avoid at the moment. But we continue the reforms that center blumenthal articulated. Governor baker do you agree with that . Where you see this thing going if we do nothing . I would say first of all i think while i appreciate the optimism for men and women when it comes to nil participation, the numbers first about therl there are no publicly available numbers some form of transparency because hold on a Second Period mr. Jones who is the highestpaid nil person in College Football. Again a lot of the not asking that urban legend are you in this business you should know. The highest grossing is a gymnasts actually from lsu piglets comes to she make . Again shes making in the seven figures i dont know the exact figures she is seven figures and heard a door summit. And tony can i call you tony . What sets fines under thank you. What is this thing go if we sit on the sidelines . Looks like ruth was being said. Were going to end up having a system that is been dictated by mary to state laws by the results of litigation by the results of action completely unmanaged change of think the results are under predictable. Let me give you my concern. Between the portal on the poaching of players i think you were going to have chaos. The university of utah offering everybody whog will play a tru. We are headed down thewn road he of a bidding or do you agree with that . I think they would echo the same sentiment across multiple courts the money entering the system is called nil but is not really nil. We say collectives are responsible for the overwhelming amount of money in the system, that monies not really true nil deals right now i feel you are correct senator. Here is my concern to the committee. College athletics needs to be available to men and women at every level. None generating. Mr. Thomas is a Gymnastic Team make money for the university of florida urge you know . I am not sure. Okay. You have done a lota to be prod of. Theres a lot of programs outlo there that dont make money, is that true . It is corrected. Its all about money. Theyre going to be left behind. Vision two schools if you make people employees but with the happen to division two schools . In division two and three schools we get of the inter scholastic collegiate sports business for. Listen to what he said. The typical deed to school has an athletic budget of 95 of the schools lose money on sports ninetyfive. 5 of them have serious budgets with serious revenues and a concern about employment but a willingness to do a lot more of the roundht what they believe ty should be doing for student athletes. The impact on d2 and d3, by the way, a lot of a one students and athletes would be profound. Seems to me we would want to avoid that to make College Sports available. Do you all agree with that . Everybody nods. Lets try to find a way to deal with the money problem. Make sure that people are taking care of athletes. If thisin committee and the Commerce Committee does not act in a bout a year, this will be an absolute mast. Thank you. Wild west is exactly the right term to characterize where we are going. Thank you for holding this. We have so many witnesses here that it will be hard to ask a question. Getting through all seven. What i think i will do is mention the three concerns that i have that you all are welcome to respond to in writing. We take questions for the record and your answers become a part of the record of the proceedings so, the first concern is helping student athletes avoid unfair contracts where they get locked in for too long or get locked into contracts that have huge, you know, management and other fees and so forth. It was in charge of protecting student athletes when there is so much pressure and money involved and they are not exactly experts in the art of contract negotiations. So, that is one. Two is the and il if you naturally take care of the star highvalue student athlete. And the question is, when this flood of money opens up, how much should we be looking at the nonstarter teammates of the stars student athletes, how much should we be looking at the non remunerative teams in addition to the teams that make enormous amounts of money and what do we do about schools that do not field star athletes . Do they just get left behind or should therein be a fund to reah into all of those areas . The third is a very obvious piece he had lots of injuries to take place during student athletics. How we manage those injuries out into the future they would be loads of i money that it is flooding in. One good thing to have it plugged into would be a fund that can make sure that athletes get their healthcare covered for injuries that are traced back to their collegiate sports careers even if the manifestation comes later. We do this with veterans all the time. Exposure with your service in a boring country 20 years later something manifests, you look back at the va provides coverage those arend the thoughts that ce to mind for me. If you have any helpful advice on thath i would be grateful for each of you to take a moment to share your thoughts in writing on those three. With that, thank you very much. Thank you. Senator grassley. Thank you all for coming. We are in the middle of a lot of things going on. Anybody that wants to respond to this because it is a conferring of mine, and il laws do you believe there will be any title ix concerns and if there is a federal and il proposal, what do you propose congress do to mitigate title ix concerns . If you think there should be concerns raised. If any of you want to dig into that, i would appreciate hearing that. I would like to get a little respect if here. It is a law and it is enforceable. It is kind of difficult to see the degree to which they are collaborating with the schools or separate from schools or anywhere in between. You know, collectives acting as an arm of the school, i think it was just in the draft, you know, there has to be a clear line. Fis this an extension . If its not, it is like nike or some other thirdparty out there as much as we all, the beginning of and il, it was all about free Market Opportunities for College Athletes. The same on every american gets. With thema free market, sometims it is very equitable and all acts of life. You look at advertisers, they are been complaints from different groups, diversity from different areas, you dont have congress trying to come in and define things. When it comes to direct pay, title ix is applicable. Free markets, i think there were issues being raised about whether or not male athletes get more than female athletes. That is a reflection and part aside froms the idea that somef these places are acting as an extension of the school. Really, it is a reflection of society. An equitable treatment amongth various subsets of groups among the market. I think that is what we are seeing here. The other is to point out that this industry, no secret, generated football and basketball players, sports that are predominantly black. The one area that they may have equal freedoms is the and il. A degree to which is money is going more than football basketball players because of market interest. That is our system. When it comes to third parties, that is the whole thing. We have advocated from california and every state in between, i think that there is a bit of a blur here when we are talking about thirdparty and il there are things that the school gives directly. Absolutely title ix should apply title ix is a law, it is enforceable now. Complaints should go to the department of education and appropriate areas, lawsuits. I dont know if it is even appropriate to dictate what the free markets look like. It may so happen to take money out of black athletes pockets after the first couple years of them finally getting equal treatment. Senator grassley, i would like to respond to that as well. Remember, we are just now into year three of this marketplace. We are still lobbying, we are adjusting. We are seeing a correction on those revenue sports. And some selfgovernance taking place with the way we are contracting with the student athletes. The universe is happening for nonrevenue and women sports. We are seeing more and more deals that are asking for female involvement. We tripled our female roster of that il from last year to this year. Our first team why deal at ole ms. Was our Womens Basketball team. Some of the highest earners are female athletes. They are not as many of them but whether title ix applies to us from a collective standpoint or not, it would not change how we operate. We are operating to have a an diverse roster. That is what brands want. That creates more value. That trend is developing. Is it acceptable to this point . Not acceptable, but it is moving in the right direction. Your high revenue sports are correcting themselves. Your nonrevenue female sports are seeing a boost than what we are seeing at the ground level. Mr. Chairman, i will put the rest of my questions for answer in writing. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I read with great interest your editorial along with father jenkins. The education to leadership and to opportunity. Your focus and your support and trust fund i think is admirable. I want to focus in on one area which is whether or not student athletes should be considered employees. This is currently in the nlrb. That sparks fierce opposition from your institution as well as the institution in my home state why does notre dame oppose classifying studentoy athletes s employees and whatt do you think the impact would be on athletics across university of notre dame and then across more broadly all sizes if that were to happen. What defines a unique american model ofle Intercollegiate Athletics, it is a club system everywhere else in the world, is the integration into the Educational Institution it is the opportunity to have all the same rights and privileges of any other students if you put them in a separate category with all the consequences that have been articulated here, that goes away immediately. We no longer have the model that we understand as Intercollegiate Athletics today. It separates us from the Educational Value as president Bakers Association point out regularly the vast majority of student athletes are not going continue their sport after they leave college. It is the education that is the primary value of their experience. We have to protect that. We have to protect their ability to be educated under the same standards and to learn under the same standards. If you t take that away, you do enormous damage to those current students. A huge change in College Athleticsem. Nwe need to act. Thank you for your testimony. Go irish. If i might, are there some factors that are applicable across institutions of all sizes a school with a different profilee. Are there some specific factors that are key to your institution and others like it in the greater philadelphia area that people should keep in mind as we draft legislation that would preempt legislation and apply to all of the universities in america. I appreciate your question very much, senator. Thank you. I tend to agree with these institutionsns when it comes to and il. I think that the coaches are disappointed and what has happened in the market than anybody in the country. On the employment front, i do think we have some unique challenges if student athletes were deemed as employees. Our Human Resources department is overwhelmed as we are with two mergers happening and to get them 487 additional employees to process many of whom are leaving on an annual basis. Again, they taxation issues. I cannot express enough that we are spending 20 million and bringing in 40 million in revenue for athletics. This would just be an untenable situation. I worry about the u ability of s to field our sports. Across the wide array of state laws. What do you think of the most critical provisions for us to include in legislation moving forward. I i would certainly support e state preemption. If you think about this at a conference level, most have multiple states. If youre trying to create anything that looks like a level playing field, getting to the alfact, there should be one setf rules for all athletes across all sports in all schools. I think that that is exactly right. I think the employment question is obviously on everybodys mind i am sure that there are schools , especially those that can do it which would be the 5 that iel talked about before tht would deal far more if they felt like theyhe could do it in an environment where there athletes were still students. I think the issue around safe harbor and limited liability, i get the fact that that is a really big issue. If you want to create some sort of framework around that and guardrails, that is fine. But i do worry we will head down the road where people will start challenging whether or not people should have minimum academic standards. Are people going to change their rules . Lets suppose i pursue the rule we were talking about earlier. With all due respect, nobody knows what is going on. Everything is a guess and a rumor. Doing much better when it comes to womenr student athletes, i dont know if it is true neither does anybody else. I think we need to give them a lot more visibility into what the price signals are so that they can make the best decision for them and their families. In a trust is game with practically everybody. I give you enormous credit for what you have managed to do in that kind of environment. There are a lot of athletes for whom that will be very challenging. I think the final one would be the whole conversation we have already had about figuring out the t best way. I do think transparency, fairness and preserving the Educational Mission is at the core of Higher Education or key parts as we Work Together to move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Senator kennedy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. It is clear to me, we still have a lot of work left to deal. I want to start with trying to look at this issue from 30,000 feet. Four many years now, College Athletics is generated enormous revenues. I am not saying that that is a bad thing. That is a good thing. The Supreme Court comes along in the austin case in 2021. It changes where that money is going. Before that money was going to tv stations and universities and coaches and others for Construction Companies building new stadiums. The kids start getting paid. All hell breaks loose. Is that what is going on here . The fact that the money is being redistributed and that is going to cause the world to spin off of its access because the kids are getting a share of the deal . What i would say, senator, in response to the austin decision, flexibilities for schools that can afford to do so and they can make payments in sports. As long as they managed to satisfy the title ix requirements. They can choose what level they want to support in they can also ttchoose to play or not. You aret getting down into e weeds. Im not saying that is a bad thing. Before the austin case, everything was just fine. And then the austin case is handed down in the kids start getting some of the money. Not the adults. The adults have to share. All of a sudden, the world is on fire. What am i missing here . For theup record, i support that. I would just like to see a little bitsu more transparency D Information to make it easier for student athletes to succeed in this space. I would strongly encourage you and your colleagues to try to get together and come up with a new system to consider. It looked like somebody designed it on purpose. You may regret asking congress to intervene here. All of a sudden, you will be micromanaged. I am not saying we should not and my colleagues have raised excellent points and it sounds to me like we do have a bit of, i dont know, wild wild west, as chairman blumenthal described it , but i would be real careful before you start micromanaging your business. Let me go back to the original question. Any of you. What am i missing about this. The fact that the kids are now getting some of the money that the adults were getting before . Yes, sir. Absolutely. Absolutely. The injustice that has been inflicted upon College Athletes seem toin be fine for the indusy until we want some Court Rulings and state legislation started passing state laws. The industry had a monopoly on College Athletes and il value. They owed every penny. Got to pay the school. That is what this is about. Many of the school said if that happens we will lose money. Stealing money from these kids. If it violates antitrust law. That is the problem. All of this is about we dont want to pay them fairly. And il, just so you know, this is not equitable Economic Situation here. Go get another job because we will pay you for what you do here. A lot of these schools i dont know if that is me or not so, we cannot treat every division as if it is the same. D3 school saying there are no employees here. Notre dame, i would imagine they have students in the bookstore as employees. Does not seem to harm the opportunity. We are talking about equal rightstr. This industry is operating in a legal fashion. Breaking antitrust law. Now it is coming home. Players are getting avenues. Kind of polling leverage and here we are thinking this guy is going to fall. I dont need to go over so much, mr. Chairman. We are talking about right here. But we are also talking about moneyer. It seems to me that this controversy in part has been caused by a model of redistribution. I have a lot of sympathy for the kids. The adults seem to take care of themselves t. It is the kids that make all of this possible. Thank you, senator kennedy. I just want to make clear before i introduce the next senator that happens to be the coauthor with me with the College Athletics compensation. I think that they make an excellent point that even the limited benefit so far to College Athletes that we have seen come because of a fight because of an effort on the part of advocates and others who are here to treat athletes more fairly and nobody has been a stronger advocate than senator booker. I am pleased to call on him. He generally would have benefited from and il as existed when he was playing football at stanford. I was a College Swimmer and there was no way anybody would have offered me a contract to do anything and il. He was a genuine star. Can i respond . You make a very valid point. I am not denigrating anybodys efforts here. I am just suggesting that we do need to be careful. Once congress decides to get involved, it really gets involved. I dont want have congress in the business of establishing these protocols reach school. That is where it can lead to. That ism all that i am saying. Thank you for that point. Chairman, thank you very much you have been an extraordinary partner. I am grateful to have you involved. The last decade. I want to thank maria as well who was a chairwoman of the committee who has done an extraordinary job on these issues as well. To the day the 10 Year Anniversary of when i was elected to the United States senate. I came here to work on a lot of issues. This was definitely one of them. I have this strange to thoughts about College Sports. The best parts of american culturee. I literally would not be sitting here today if it was not for the opportunities that were s awardd me as a Football Player in high school and college. It is one of the bright light that the time when america has so many forces dividing us that unifies us in a way that is special. The challenge i found years ago when the First Congress Committee Hearing on this, i was very angry because i also knew the dark side of College Sports. I knew too many of my friends whose bodies were beaten and battered. Going in their own pocket years later to pay for spinal cord injuries or shoulders, knees and the challenges with the cte. Guys coming out who had head injuries, depression and so many other symptoms that we now know are symptoms of this but nobody there to help them or support them. More than this, i just could not understand that we had a system that spent over 80 hours, 70 hours, 60 hours after the football crew to pay for the last few credits that they had. I could not understand how low income kids who had a chance to play ball did not have the money to even, you know, get their parents to come see them play while the jersey with their names on it were being sold in student bookstores for more money than their parents made in a full days labor. What frustrated me was at that time the ncaa was giving lip service to a lot of the changes, but seem to only move when they got embarrassed. The embarrassment of showing the differential treatment of women versuse men and ncaa tournament. I am so glad that this group is here now because the folks here before us have been extraordinary in their leadership. I cannot think president baker enough for being willing to work with me and my team for what i think has been very progressive leadership in bringing about change. You have been a great partner in trying to develop something that could be bipartisan and work to put some commonsense guardrails. We havean been working on this since you and i both had hair. It is, i cannot tell you how grateful i am for your leadership and advocacy and fighting for what most people think should be the norm that the men and women who are contributing 15 billion industry at the very least have some basic standards for health, safety and justice when it comes to these issues. I am grateful to be here with folks that are really constructive. Finding a way to preserve College Sports which is now being threatened in my opinion by a lot of the wild wild west which has been mentioned. You are correct. There is so much bipartisan place to land on this. The controversial stuff we can lead aside keeping athletes centered and first. I am extraordinarily encouraged by the work of senator blumenthal, the discussion document that we put out, the feedback has been so great. There is so much accord. We have to move forward. Not tooi have any unintended consequences, do it with a light touch but again protect College Athletes. I would really like to turn to the one College Athlete that is actually here. Misss thomas, it is extraordiny that you are here. I cannot thank you enough for being here. You are playing and have played at a level that is just great. I dont think folks understand the physical demand in the mental demands. You have seen very personally that challenges, a lot of folks dont understand what athletes go through while trying to balance difficult academic schedules. The last second, why do you think it is so important that whatever we do we prioritize to help safety, Mental Health wellbeings, of College Athlete, teammates and others. Could you just express the urgency of the moment . Being a student athlete is super difficult. Hours upon hours. That is a lot already and then you are putting on that, i mean, we practice every single day. Whether it is conditioning or practice or training or letting our trainers work on our bodies for us. It is a lot. The traveling on top of that is a lot in competing in our sports everything outside of that that is extra needs to be so that it is taking care of us. I obviously am not a student athlete anymore, technically. For all of my former teammates and thees student athletes after me, i know how hard it is to be successful as a student athlete. On a make sure we are doing our best for them. Again. Governor, i am so grateful for the work we are doing. I think we can get someplace with this. Notre dame has been one of the best partners that we have extraordinary and honorable way you are doing it. That is only reason why i am restraining from talking about my best career Football Game when notre dame is ranked number one. We went into south bend, indiana , and upset, i think Sports Illustrated called it the greatest upsetting college ksports that year. I will not talk about it or respective your institution and gratitude for yourr partnership. Thank you for your restraint. [laughter] you should listen to senator booker when he is unrestrained. Thank you, senatoran booker. Thank you for all of your work on this measure. I second your thanks to the senator as well as senator cantwell and others on the committee who have been very thoughtful on this issue. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. I think probably a year or two from now you will consider being a republican governor in a democratic state. One of the simpler jobs youve had. You have a lot of work to get done. I already do, senator. I want to make sure that i heard this right. I think in your Opening Statement you said there was no duty to protect College Athletes did you complain to me . Where derek shealy, he died during a football practice in the family suit. The ncaans legal defenses that they have no legal duty to protect College Athletes. It has kept that stance in every lawsuit in its defense. Against governor baker, i will ask you about that, a part of what we are talking about, the universities themselves have the primary responsibility for the health and safety of the student. It would seem to me even if you want to set aside the humanitarian factors that you ewant every athlete to be healy ayevery day of the week doing te best thatt they can do to get te most people to watch that sport. It seems that there is an inherent problem not an obligation, but an economic driver behind trying to protect these people. It just does not make sense to me. You want the best athletes on the field every saturday. I am a football fan and basketball, every day of the week it is harder to follow, i just want to dispense with the notion that you would actually have somebody recruit a kid to st. Josephs and not care about their wellbeing. It seems like it would be in the forefront. Am i correct . That was the intent of my Opening Statement to say we are not waiting around for an ncaa rule nor do we feel like it is lacking. We do itns for several reasons already. Proactively and if something does happen. Stars on the field. Stars that attract people to the games. That generates revenue and creates the economic cycle. First off, congratulations on your academic and athletic powers. How many did you say you did . I think the chairman said you did over your career . 28. If you are not comfortable, just say you are not comfortable with this. Can you tell me a little bit about the income you are receiving right now. I am not comfortable answering that. I think it is interesting. I would like to learn more, and maybe you know, when we are thinking about an il we are thinking about olivia done, a gymnast to i think her careerhigh on uneven bars was a 9. 925. She has never gotten a 10. One of the most. People just making enough where they can pay their college tuition. They are finding ways through an il. They are student athletes but they are not the big names actually making revenue. Is that just antidotal or are we seeing other people are finding this as a way to pay for their education and move on to something other than a collegiate sport that attracted them . Senator, i would tell you one of the things we are seeing at the ground level is the issues that are inevitable in their life. Family related r issues. Pay off a sibling student debt. Fly your parents to come watch them play. The athletes which also gives him the ability to stay in School Longer. I think everybody here stipulated that they support an il. That, to me, i dont think anybody has been paying attention. I do disagree with some of my colleagues who dont think and i think i disagree with you, too, mr. Jones, we dont need rules of the road. The essence of interstate commerce. It was one of you in your testimony. I thought itt was you. In my remaining time, several states, we have implemented a patchwork. I think we have to eliminate that. We have to create rules of the road. It means congresss has to get involved to get it right. I guess the question i have is is there a National Model that we should be instructed by or is there a given state or jurisdiction . Do you have the information that is done it particularly well. Unfortunately, senator, i do not think that there is an example to n look to you right w it is been motivated by a bit of a race to the bottom for recruiting purposes. That has been the challenge. If there is one thing that we could doo that would address the title ix issues and otherwise, the mostet wellknown basketball player in the country right now is from iowa and she is a woman. Name image and likeness. You have an equity that is achieved and it relates to the level of accomplishment. Everybody on the team has one. It is not a marketing deal. Getting back to where they were name likeness and ideas. We are for regulation. A national and il. We are fine. We support that. We are right here for that and we are ready to work with anybody that wants to regulate. The problem is, nobody is. We support regulation. Thank you for clarifying. There are a lot of things. They g have become Employment Status. They will have a skeleton of an Athletic Program. The numbers dont work. They already dont work. There will be certain sport that will be forgotten in collegiate athletics which really begins the beginning of the end of their sports being relevant at any level. Thank you all for being here. We have worked to deal. I for one think we should be at thank you, mr. Chair. Senator klobuchar. Thank you. I want to thank you for your work. I am looking forward to working with you on judiciary and congress to get this done. I would try to show the same restraint as you did, senator booker. It is noty as good, but it is pretty good and asking my first question to governor baker and noting that he is from massachusetts where they play a lot of hockey where the university of Minnesota Youth hockey teams have collectively 111 ncaa championships in 2001. I am not sure you can have that record in massachusetts. Ive got nothing. Harvard has won several championships, but those numbers in minnesota are very special. Excellent answer. Next. Can you elaborate on how the new policy will help student athletes . The one that you note in your written testimony about approving financial outcomes including areas of Financial Literacy agent registration. Sure. The policies that the d1 counselors working theird way through should be voted on before the end of the year. They are basically designed to create what i would describe transparency and accountability. It is something that some schools already do. We are like to see everybody required to do that. The contract isme basically abot doing the same thing we do in almost every financial transaction industry in america. Having a contract that represents basic terms. They need to explain to the student athlete why they want to move off of it. The third part is to create what i would describe as a system where student athletes would make available to their schools what their deal looks like in all the data would get the identified and incorporated into a public distribution so that if you are gymnast, a Football Player, a basketball player, you would have some idea of what traditionally and il looks like or you or for somebody like you. Some idea about what you should get. The final pieces to make sure we have ann agents registry where they just have to among other things say that they work for their customer. Their client. They are way too many examples of agents taking advantage. I remember talking about that when we met. How does the lack of uniform rules, we have 31 state laws that have now emerged. How does that put schools and states like minnesota at a disadvantage because they cannot take advantage of state laws that plant ncaa rules and are more permissive. It is creating an recruiting in those states where they can flow to student athletes that encourage attendance and transfer. States that have not acted so far in different conditions. It is been mentioned earlier, we have a situation where we compete across many states. We have different size stadiums. There is a lot of competitiveness. We are seeing states increasingly keep rationing up what they are doing to try to prove competitive. It keeps going in one direction. Is that a single nationwide standard making it more difficult for aes student athle . Yes. It makes things much more difficult and very confusing a lot of times. Okay. Another issue that is related, after 50 years, title ix, our athletes should not have to fight toou get adequate pay. As you know, we have worked to pass legislation, equal pay for team usa which now requires equal pay and resources. How can we ensure that they dont persist under and il system. A combination of what they have already mentioned. One is transparency and to is getting back to legitimate and il deals with the actual capitalist market isen paying. Women will succeed at a greater level i believe the male athletes. I think it all comes down to getting ridf of this impermissible market for paying athletes to attend institutions. Okay. Back to you. When we had a hearing we all saw firsthand simone biles, Kayla Maroney and Maggie Nicholas testified. Before the Senate Judiciary committee in 2021. By coming forward, we know they made a difference. What are they implementing to ensure these types of abuse dont occur . We are very proud to have this olympic trials destined for minnesota june 2024. I think there will be a lot of discussion about that. Thank you, senator. We want to make sure we ensure this for student athletes and the coaches. That is number one. Since then, we were the first to install a chief medical officer. We are trying to make sure that members have the best resources to make sure that we have guaranteed a safe environment for everyone involved. Thank you. I will ask on the record about the announcement on the longterm health and disability benefit. I will do that later and defer to my colleagues. Thank you. I think next is my fellow stanford man. I think he played far right wing on the soccer team. Josh holly. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thanks to all the witnesses for being here. Mr. Baker, if i could just start with you. I appreciated your comments about the attacks on the state of israel. And the need to condemn those for what they are. Let me ask you about some of the statements that student groups have said recently. Students at harvard wrote they hold the Israeli Regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Students at Ohio State University praised the heroic resistance and gods out. Students atte the university of North Carolina claimed it is a moral obligation to be in solidarity, this includes violence. Students at New York University wrote peaceful discourse must be rejected and it is said there is no peace and a colonized People Living under apartheid referring to israel. I am sure you know columbia university. Actually forced to close its campus when an israeli student was assaulted and numerous students were threatened. Would you condemn this rhetoric of violence and antisemitism at these campuses . I think it is important. I say this as much as a Current Governor as the end caa. Whether we agree with someones general political philosophy or not, to condemn any support for violence, there is never an excuse for unprovoked attacks on innocent people. I have said many times, and i said it a lot when i was governor, we have gotten really casual about the way we think about violence in this country. And i said it all the way through the summer of 2020 when we had some really horrible things that happened to members of our black community. I think we have a cultural problem as much as anything else , senator. I think it is important for everyone on all sides of the political spectrum to call that stuff out. I think it is important that the ncaa be willing to say. You have Jewish American students indeed. While, and i think you are gesturing to this, i think the First Amendment certainly protects the right of anybody on t our campuses and across the country to say what they want, peacefully. That does not mean that we have to condone it and act as if it is morally acceptable. It isep vital that we take a std i willta ask the senate to takea stand and condemn it as the violent antisemitic rhetoric that it is. Let me ask you about a student safety issue of a different kind earlier this year this Committee Heard testimony from a 12 time american swimmer riley gaines. Ngshe was forced to share a locr room with a biological male. Let mem just read from her testimony. In addition from being forced, the ncaa forced me and my fellow swimmers to share a locker room with thomas. Let me be clear, we were not forewarned. We were not asked for our consent and we, women, did not give our consent. Is that still ncaa policy . I will not defend what happened in 2022. I was not there. I was still governor of the commonwealthmo. We have very specific rules and standards around the safety and security of all of our student athletes and anyone that hosts one of our National Championships has to accept that they know what they are in the and abide by them accordingly. Does that include female athletes having to share locker rooms with biological males not being warned or consent . Do they ask for their consent . I do not believe that that policy would be the policy that we would use today. Let me just ask you this. Would you support the right of student athletes to unionize . Athletes like ms. Gaines to unionize, to have some Bargaining Power on some kind of an equal footing to deal with the ncaa. Whether its over safety issues, name image and likeness, overcompensation, it seems like these institutions has all the power, the ncaa has a lot of power. Should students have the right to unionize, speak with a little bit of t an equal voice. I think the most important thing for us to remember here is , if student athletes were to unionize, we will have court cases on that, that is why they are more likely than not to want to speak specifically to those. I do have concerns and i praise these before about creating a system where you put one brush across all 19,000 teams. All 5000 athletes and say they should all be employees. I do believe in your state and in the state of every Single Person on this committee, literally, thousands of your interscholastic programs will go away because it completely changes everything about what it means to be a student athlete in a college that supports student athletics. I think that that is a problem. I appreciate your responses and your candor. I think that we have to find some way to give the student athletes a voice. Whether its issues that ms. Gaines raised or others. Currently. One final point, senator. All three of our Advisory Councils elected by our peers have expressed deep concerns aboutes being considered to be aemployees. I have talked to probably 1000 student athlete since i got this job. I have not talked to one yet that wants to be an employee. I think that that is important. Senator blackburn. Thank you, mr. Chairman. As most of you know, whether its a Commerce Committee or the Judiciary Committee, we will be focused on what we are going to deal with dni lsu and how it will affect student athletes. Likewise, we have been very concerned about men and women sports. And what that does to the student experience. Trinity, congratulations to youu and your outstanding record. I am absolutely delighted that we have the opportunity to hear your perspective. Governor baker, it is no surprise to you. I want to come to you first. One of the things, pardon me, we are looking at is the patchwork of state laws. And how that affects so processes with the recruiting process dealing with an il different approaches, different types of collective spirit as you look at this patchwork, knowing that it will impact schools differently, whether it is ole miss or saint joe or whomever, talk for a moment about how you will clean this up and what is your timeline for delivering it. Your predecessor never could us the date time and place that something was going to happen. Give me a timeline. Give me a way forward. I think every university there is 1000 schools in this country that you will cover and they all want to know what is that process. Thank you very much for that question, senator. With respect to student athlete transparency and access to information and Consumer Protections which is how i think about it, those are in the process of being written up. I expect they will be ratified before the end of the calendar year. In the implementation would be at what point . The next scholastic year. August 2024. With respect to institutional involvement which is another issue we talked about quite a bit here. I would expect those to be done by march. I would expect right around march we would be dealing with the issues around recruitment. Also effective august of 24. Now, the question, senator, those would be ratified and voted onni by laws by the organization by the ncaa and its membership. But, that does not necessarily mean that in the current legal and Regulatory Environment everybody will comply with them. I fully expect at some point with men d and women sports, when do you expect some specific guidance . Just responded to senator holly that you did not think the situation by the way a tennessean, the position would be the same. When will there be specificity on that . First of all, the rules around Transgender Athletes generally are more restrictive today than they werent 22. I can state pretty clearly that no one will get forced into any sort of situation that will make them uncomfortable. We make that very clear in the guidance that we give to anybody that hosts one of our championships. Mr. Jones, if i could come to you, please. The collectives are something that we have looked at. Of course, as we know and we have discussed, 98 of your College Athletes do not play pro sports. And then looking at the ni lsu, the benefit to the student, the need for Financial Literacy in this, the need to prepare the 2 that do go on to the pros because we hear 78 of those athletes and up the bankrupt. Talk a little bit about what the collective is doing. You said in your testimony, dont help with recruitment, you jump in after the students are there. How do you help prepare them for this . A lot of what we have heard our outdated perceptions. Collectives first being formed. They did not have as much guidance. They were just trying to figure things, out. I think that it has evolved to a much more functional staff. Business professionals providing resources and tools. At the end of the day, i think originally they were about just writing checks to the athlete. Now what has happened, at the university of mississippi, it is as much about developmental as it is about compensation. That is philosophically the way that it should be going. Making them better prepared and more functional members of society when they leave their campus. Most collectives, we stand united, we are already transparent. We have our contracts on file with universities. Getting the bad actors out. And a standardized contract, we have no problem with those things. We support a lot of what we have heard today. It is evolved just like the market has evolved. We are giving our athletes resources and tools so they are better prepared in Financial Literacy, being a taxpayer citizen, networking and business and protecting their name on social media. All a those tools delivering an obligation we arere compensated. The tools that they will need, senator, whether they play to your point professional sports or not. The tools we are providing on the collectives of today are helping them prepare for that. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I think it would be helpful to know if there are other collectives in the room if we could get a written statement about what their process of participation is with their students. We look at having some certainty and consistency in this process across the country. Thank you. I am turning it back over to the real chairman. Next up is the Deion Sanders of the republican caucus, ted cruz. That may be the introduction i have ever gotten in my life. I would say to the senator from new jersey he may find that introduction played against him in his own state. I apologize for that ahead of time. Welcome to all the members of this panel. Thank you for being here. College sports are amazing. This pulls us together where there is a time. Every week, millions of americans come together. For millions of young men and millions of young women to get a great education. Young men and women who might not otherwise have an opportunity to go to college. To have the college paid for and to get all of the benefits of participating in organized sports. Most College Athletes will never play pro ball not going to win the cover of a wheeze box. Theyre not going to get a nike contract. But they are learning discipline and teamwork and sportsmanship. They arep learning to be gracios winners. Theyre going to be gracious losers. They are learning all sorts of skills will help them every day of their life. And i am very worried about the state of College Athletics right now. In addition to serving on the Judiciary Committee and ranking Commerce Committee which has jurisdiction over athletics. And as each of the witnesses know ive spent much of the past year visiting and listening to stakeholders. Listening to the ncaa. Listening to conferences. Listen to universities, institutions, athletes. An acrosstheboard i am hearing a real concern about the states of College Athletics right now. It is a wild west. And there is a real risk that if congress does not act and act that we risk doing enormous damage enormous benefit to minds of americans. I introduced draft legislation to address this issue. It takes a different approach that piece of legislation introduced lots of members of this body of introduced legislation. Theres a lot of interest in it. Might legislation protects and il rights front and center. Its right athletes and if their skills are generating millions of dollars that are massive economic powerhouse its only write these young men and young women should enjoy significant fruits from their hard work and their performance. But at the same time i dont think anyone was to seek a worll the money that bile the top athletes and we destroy competitiveness across College Athletics. One of the great things about march madness is 16 teams and anyone can live it went in any given year thats incredible fun to watch. I think its also important that we protect College Athletes across the board. It is not just football and basketball and big marquee programs. Division ii, division iii its all nonrevenue sports at a really important but not going to produce millions of dollars and to be on tv nationally. So, i would like to ask a couple questions to each of the witnesses quickly. Number one, do each of you believe it is important that congress act and provide a uniform National Standard rather thanhe 50 states having 50 different standards . You think it is important that congress act im going to ask for a yes or no. Yes. Yes. Correct no. Yes. Bill approach is that and other bills is my bill empowers into aa to work with conferences to work with universities to set the rules of the road. Thats a betterte solution than the federal government sticking in and a brandnew government agency. S nobody wants to see congress and politicians deciding what reffing the passerg is. Bad things will happen i believe government takes over College Sports. I would like to ask everyone on the panel again to answer yes or no. Not yes or no y but do you belie the ncaa should be setting the rules do you believe the federal government should be setting the rules . Governor . Assess an easy one for me . Senator. Ive got the ncaa on that one precooked i figured that progress ncaa. I do not have an opinion on that. The federal government by extension of establishment of a third party. Okay precooked the devil is in the detail that would be open to the ncaa. The ncaa in compliance with existing federal laws. The ncaa that they can figure out targeting. [laughter] i am confident congress cannot. I do not understand who gets called for targeting but i note this is me off when its against my school. All right, last question there is a big debate over whether student athlete should be classified as employees or not. I believe that be very serious mistake it would subject scholarships or taxation. It would subject student athletes to all sorts of wage and hour regulations. It would mean if suddenly of a receiver who drops a bunch of passaging beef fired in leisure scholarship. All of that seems really bad for College Athletics. Not to mention the cost that itd impose on smaller programs that would lead to limiting smaller programs going down the panel do you believe student athlete should be treated as employees yes or no . No. No. No. Yes for fbs Football Division i minimums basketball. No. No. No. Mr. Chairman i would ask unanimous consent to enter into the record two different letters that i have here. One is a letter dated october 13, 2023 from for historically black athletic conferences sink any legislative framework classifying student athletes as employees would have a staggering impact on our Athletic Program inch schools, d Employment Model for College Sports is simply not the answer and secondly is a letter from the chair of the division i Student Athletes Advisory Committee which represents nearly 190,000 student athletes. Notingul student athlete should not be employees of their institution. Without objections ordered. Thank you. Quick senator padilla. Thank you mr. Chair. I had to step out but tracking this important conversation which im not unfamiliar with. I appreciate youou all participating in it today. I have heard a question of whether there should be a National Standard versus statebystate standard keeps getting revisited. I want to register at my position on that. Ideally there be a National Standard. But only if it is done right. Not if it undermines or compromises the protections arer gains that have been made in different states. I speak from experience. When i served on the California State Legislature we work hard to pass the nations first ever student athlete bill of rights. We got through all the debates about student athletes versus athlete students. That may be as a discussion for another day student athletes bill of rights through universities to increase protection, healthcare and resources to support student athletes not just their Health Pacific i towards academic support and Graduation Rates. I want to make a point here for thee record. The ncaa has reported 90 of division i athletes graduate within six years in 2022. This statistic fails to include athlete transfers who do not re enroll. There are other concerns about the methodology the bottom line is statistics from ncaa are inaccurate and misleading. Do you think this standard federal graduation rat just 69 of division i athletes graduated within six years. We have this important conversation today i want toak make sure billions of dollars in profit thats made off of the performance, the work and the sacrifices student athletes in collegiate sports is used to support the pursuit of a college degree. Again, we intentionally call student athletes not athlete students. The student part comes first. Not just a name it comes first in practice. A question, what exists today exist today andwhat protectionsl needed to further support athletic rates . Thanks for the work is done in yourt past. Setting a great example of what states can do. First and foremost if you look at the pac 12 conservative survey a few years ago across all sports athlete support spinning 50 hours a week and a in asport alone. Fifty hours. That server is not going to change the tv schedules and the game schedules its important athlete on the backend i have he enough time to graduate. One important issue is to make sure athletes have enough time to graduate. Theyre saying is going to pass legislation for years and years after words. The thing is without enforcement any rules i not going to happen. I would offer to my colleagues for consideration as we did at the state level certain programs, certain schools whose Graduation Rates by program fall through certain thresholds would trigger requirements for additional investment, Additional Support whether its tutoring or anything else. If we are genuine and sincere we call them student athletes. Not just athletes or athlete students. I know my time is brief which ask a followup question additional to academic support. The Mental Health needs stress is real. That has been under programs to date conference structures toda date. I can only imagine under new conference structure more money at stake time away from home and family et cetera. Weup have for better supporting students in that capacity to adjust the problems theres a lot of athletes are broken last be a third party sought the dhonor system surveys show at te trainers or saint coaches are forcing players back in competition before theyre ready. 59 of trainers say that. Without medicalal clearance thee breaking kids conferences on opposite coasts has more pressure on academics, travel, their health, their rest. Some structural issues need to be addressed. It should be prioritizing him a proper Mental Health services on campus. There is no such thing as a full for your bride. I know my time is up but i want to ask one more question because i think its a timely for the state of california is going to be for governor baker. Its my understanding from the 2021 Supreme Court decision student athletes are no longer forced to choose between collegiate eligibility and il contracts. As all of you know will be hosting the 2028 olympic and Paralympic Games and preparations are well underway to ensure the success of team usa. In these games he must address any remaining barriers to participation by our student athletes. Governor baker immense your testimony collegiate Sports Program have been a significant pipeline for team usa. Are there any remaining barriers for student athletes who also olympic athletes and whether statements from olympic Training Programs or endorsing summer entertainment statebystate work here at fred elite will impact that conversation . I think i would like to do ts get back to in writing on that. It is a really important question with a lot of detail in it and i do not not want to get it wrong pick i will get you an answer in writing. That. For to think it mr. Chair. Thank you, senator lee. Thank you, mr. Chairman fred president baker i like to turn to you first. A few moments ago my colleague senator hawley asked you a couple of questions related to riley gains but not really gains was here a few months ago she testified in front of this committee at another hearing about how ncaa discriminated against her when she was required to compete against a biologically mail athlete leah thomas also required to chair changing facilities with that same biological mail athlete. Another female swimmer kylie was so uncomfortable being required without advance notice to share changing facilities with biological mail competitor that she went and found a supply closet instead. When senator hawley asked you those questions you jim youre noting those occurred before you came on as president i understand that. And i look forward to those type of things not happening. Its relevant for us to ask what has been done about those . Have you apologized to those female athletes and those similarly situated for the trauma inflicted on them as a result of those decisions by ncaa . Again senator i am not going to speak to or defend. I understand them. I assume it you are asking me too yield. Yo i do not know the answer to that question ill have to get back with you. Tell me what rules, regulation, restriction, policy issue did put in place to allow these things to prevent these sorts of things are happening in the future. I can tell you these standards with respect to participation for trans athletes and women sports have been adjusted since then im happy to put that to you in writing which i think will be helpful. Very. That would be great. Separate from the issue of competing what about the question of changing sharing facilities policies is there a means by which female student athletes when changing with the biologic mail athlete . After notifying them of policies and procedures in place to allow them to make alternative arrangements for changing facilities . Our policies with respect with the safety and security of student athletes participating in our championships is pretty explicit about making clear student athletes should not be forced into uncomfortable situations. I will confirm that would involve situations such as the one youre racing here. Again on it that you in writing by. Thank you very much mr. Jones i would like to turn to you next is a former student athletes at the old miss when you played for my colleague you were not allowed to receive compensation for players now are allowed to profit based on their name image and likeness which could lead to great benefits for the student athletes. And for collegiate athletics more broadly. For example because of nil some players may choose to stay in college longer allowing them to showcase their talents and pursue degrees instead of leaving early to play in the pros. That university of utah Football Team has recently arranged for their players to get leases on trucks the collectives play in therole of Going Forward . Thank you center for your question. It has evolved over the last 12 years. An organization to write a check resource to provided tools transparency you got your number to the student athletes its a new environment for them at something they have never experienced 18 , 21yearold kids and their parents. Make sure they dont do anything to preclude or inhibit their eligibility. We have taken the approach our collective at old miss. Trying to make it just as much about development of the student athlete. Financial literacy is important. Being a taxpaying citizen. Understanding when somebody pays you the service you need to provide and the obligation you are owed. All of those things speak to them and they leave ourve campu. Collectives have evolved to create a structure where we can provide guidance we can provide resources. Though ive said my written test mental age of governments who have oversight. Try federal standard. With the government were necessary. Because senator we are lucky enough we can do all the athletes every day. Were in the trenches with them are the things we need addressing . Absolutely. The impact nil has had in the health and wellbeing of her student athletes have been overwhelming positive. We see that with their student athletes who see them develop their maturity level and again i think if we are doing our part we can provide really transparent and tangible detail to all of the stakeholders so we can provide the necessary guidance and make the most informed decisions Going Forward i doo think we are much more about development than we are just compensation. Thank you appreciate all thank you. Weve enjoyed by Center Mansion a lot of work and i have a lot of opportunity to make a statement. Then i will have a few closing questions. Senate mansion. Something near and dear to my heart its good to see my friend i know youre all here i think we are leaving sites of the word students. Basically allowing them to switch around asun they can rene out portals and Everything Else their chances of graduating are slim to none. Something has to be done. Heres what we have done we have a piece of legislation senator blumenthal have shared it with you and allon that. Myself and tommy tibor bill is a coach at auburn. Its called the pass action to put guardrails if you will for boosters to associated with the schools were not trying to harm any student was able to sell their value we dont believe it should be auction off school against School Pretty simple. Get yourself a lawyer go to it dont come to Westford University and say dont give me this much to marilyns going to give me this much or soandso. We are trying to take that out of it. The other thing is moderating the transfer portal. I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship got hurt very early back then in the 60s they still kept me they didnt have too. But right now if i got a division i Scholarship Division i School Scholarship there does committed to ketamine for four years the bottom line is im not committed to stay i can leave the first month if i am unhappy. They told them going to play quarterback i go in they put me as defensive back oh no, sorry and going somewhere else. That is not what developing Young Athletes is about. Theyre going to be structured and coach somewhere so were pretty guardrails on b that. Three years freshman, sophomore, junior junior after that go anywhere you want too. Coach has had a chance or so going to be a waiver provision ive spoken to commissioner baker about all these things if you have seen our bill if not will make sure you receive it. Providing transparency how these are operating. Clarifying the nil activities which i just talked about. Providing additional protection for student athletes. The bottom line is our main goal is to get them an education give them a skill sets. Theres less than 2 that go into the nfl or nba or whatever they love to do we have those grandeur dreams that does not work out always. So that is the most important thing. The otherer thing i dont if you have all considered most of the student athletes receiving pell grants. So that means the federal government is paying for pell grants for the most highest valued part of scholastic is basically the money that comes in through the large Sports Programs. That does not seem fair to me. All of these schools have other students that really need the pell grants very badly there is enough value within the system that would pay for those students. I do not think anyone intend that to happen that way it is just evolved but i dont know if you are all aware of that or not. It is been brought to my attention i think is something that has to be corrected to. Enforcing oversight also health and safety our bill basically says she will take care of student athlete eight years after they finish their playing days or curriculum or graduates. That means it has to be a sport related injury to the sport they played. They probably orthopedics and things of that source but we are trying to make sure they have the full value having a quality of a healthy education i have a healthyro life to provide for themselves and their family. But also the experience of being a student athlete. They are coming in as professionals now the end il has basically just about destroyed what i know the system was and how it was supposed to be. Heck, i would have paid to let me go play. I will tie the love of the sport still has to be there. If its all about chasing the dollar when you are on teams your parents are pushing you and all of these, thats not what it was designed to be. So if they are that good go right and from high school to the pros. Dontt come to the college systm and basically have an auction bid. Not what it was intended to be. I know everyone has different opinions about this i have heard everything from players union. You want to really screw a a school in screw title ix and Everything Else try that when on title ixs going to get hurt the worst. No one is even looking at that to the point to where we are just worried about the two major sports that have all of the money. I have got a lot of problems, i really do with this. Sing up close and personal. Seeing a lot of young men and women who have made tremendous contributions to society not through athletics after they finish the athletic scholarship they have. They did it because they were developed young people who are auteur enough to go out to and showtheir value. That has been tremendous. Ive always said this i could never figure out when we were in school we used to get tickets we would sell the tickets and give spending money we got 30 a month for laundry. That was it. I said thats pretty good we could almost live on 30 a month back in the 60s. We felt good about all these things a that the bonus i said o and sos of my classmates might ballplayers their own parents could not afford to watch and play. If an alumni tried to pay to get the parent there was a violation. Crazy i said how can your mom sign here . My grandma cant afford it. I just said weve got to fix that. I know you all have good intentions. Guys, youve got to help us if notre were going to lose somethg which is one of the greatest pastimes we have ever had no matter where youou went to schol no matter whether you played or not you are still there it still part of you youre rooting for the system and you rooting for the kids. And anymore its hard to root for the kids when theyre starting as multimillionaires is freshman and sophomore. So that is my 2 cents. Mr. President said it left et cetera blumenthal follows been so kind we have a lot of the same concernso a little differet opinion on how should be done. If you help us you can make changes think we really can it can be constructive. I mr. Baker my friend im so glad you are where you are. Im think wed ever been the fed the strength of Leadership Back where this evolved into it got to today im hoping all of us can work on this together. Take the politics out of it its hard to do that anywhere but if you can take the politics out the able to look at what is our purpose the studente, athlete sw the best experience of their life to basically to give something back. 98 of them could do that about 2 make their fortune in the arena so thank you. Click thank you Center Mansion. I have a few closing questions which i would like to pose to the panel as a whole. Some of you may be aware that International Students are treated differently than american citizens who are College Athletes. I have raised this issue of foreign student athletes being able to benefit from an out well with secretary actually in this room before the Judiciary Committee before the current visa system is eat their legal status if they earn any money. In my view this is deeply unfair to them and outdated for example International Students a star on the yukon husky Basketball Team and a significant part of our victory last year is totally unable to earn any nil benefits despite his promise on the court. These student athletes diligence, discipline and determination are equally deserving of monetary reward in my opinion. Let me ask the panel as a whole be getting with governor baker would you support changes in our laws and regulation permit without fear of losing their visas or other. Tracks absolutely sp. Yes. , yes. Yes we actually contract with International Student athletes. Correct yes. Hort sponsors would be able tos. Or sponsors would be able to pas them. Their p status if they accept sh payments under our current bees that laws is what we need to change. Thank you for helping them. But they are still at risk of losing their legal status. Yes i agree. We have not talked much about enforcement. Her former prosecutor most of my career has been spent in Law Enforcement. Whatever standards are adopted whatever reforms are enacted they will be meaningless unless they are enforced. Senator booker and nine senator moran have written would establish College Athletic corporation. As state attorneys general i happen to be a former state attorney general. I would like to ask all of you again whether you think that kind of independent enforcer is important and whether you have any specific views on who should be doing it. Governor baker . Oxo say a couple of things. Thats a conversation we have had and i continue to have. I have some concerns about the details in the ags we should talk about that a little bit. I have had some interesting experiences since i got this job. And before probably to pay. Before two yes. I would welcome continuing our conversation about it. I would just need to know more about the structure and how it will be set up to have a strong initially more inclined to try to see if we can figure out a way for the ncaa to do this but we are open to having those discussions with you. I would also need more information to have an opinion. It is important enforcement be conducted by an entity independent of the colleges, conferences and ncaa. Preferablythe industry once enft when it comes to policing inducements it could be the sams entity that enforces health and safety in other aspects up or checked College Athletes forgot generally agreed with the commissioner. Need more detail or substance in context we are certainly open to oversight and g governance for sure. I agree, more discussion is warranted for a little bitit worried of the lack of enforcement arm current state laws such as nil laws and laws that exist right now i dont im not sure the states have been active in enforcing them. I am thinking increase the effectiveness of enforcement is a critical error that has to be addressed. I am not sure r i have enough detail to respond to that. I thank you all for your willingness to talk. Let me just emphasize the real testers going to be whether the rules are enforced. I mean the best rules in the world are dead letter unless they are enforced. I am certainly more thanun happy to hear from you about how the enforcement should be done. But in my view independent, effective well resourced and intentional enforcement with an emphasis on independent is key to making this whole system work not just on nil but on health and site safety, on scholarships, on medical trust fund appear on all the good things we agreed aree importan. We are heading now to the wild, wild west and dangerous chaos with a patchwork of different measures a a National Standard n any of these issues will depend on enforceability and in fact someoneme willing to take the reins and make sure those athletes are really protected. Because we all know the athletes themselves do not have the resources to go to court and often theres a lot of psychological pressure for them to just take it. Suck it up. Go with the program. And i think youre absolutely right state enforcement so far has been lacking. I would not rely exclusively on state enforcement was urged by attorneys general or anyone else and i would not rely exclusively on federal agency i would allow the athletes themselves to go to court but there has to beal some enforcing agency here or entity obviously we are tongue but a College Athlete corporation which is not the ftc or existing governmentnt agency. But i am open to considering one of those Enforcement Mechanisms as well. I think the other area governor baker has rightly emphasized it is transparent. We need prompt full accurate disclosure here. I think that messages come across from this panel very compellingly and forcefully. I think it is a fact of life a lot of the veryev irrelevant issues need more sunlight, more disclosure and transparency. And i thank you for your willingness to work on that. You commented very eloquently of the employee classification issue the panel has seemingly with unanimity said no to employee classification except for and i would like to ask you two may be elaborates on the exception you wouldt make to barring employee status . Click sure. That would be to relate look at equal rights under the law. But we know were not talk about High School Athletes division ii, division iii we are talking top football and basketball that is why the discussion is happening there is a realization this athletes are generating much more revenue. They are receiving in terms of fair pay there is a lack of protections workplace protections involved as well. Im also to center hollys point the ability to eventually have some real say collectively bargain with an industry thats hostile. We are talking people discussing closing the door on employee status without paying the athletes fairly . That does not come up in the arena thats one of the pivotal points. It is also an issue i encouraged to put to the side because i dont think congress is going to proactively pay College Athletes fairly. I do not think legislation would give them the pay then eat either print this a lot of issues we can come to agreement on that issue is not one of them. You are talking about only for some sports and some schools . Correct. What if the athleteth did not want to be employed . Throughout our conversations the different states are athletes from the committees of the colleges committees that would say hey look i would rather not have an il because the school told me that would divert money from our school enforce is to cut my sport and im afraid of that. So youve got to understand the athletes may truly have a difference of opinion but it should not negate the entire nation of rights and progress for all athletes whether its groups, what is equal rights under the law . To have labor rates are not . I do not think congress should be creating special status is what i heard the second class citizenship when you carve out players from rights thats a big issue in this country and we oppose that. Think we will continue to talk about this issue. I am certainly sympathetic to the idea of collective bargaining. Ive been a longstanding champion of unions and the vital role theys play when employment settings. And i would like to continue this conversation with you. One of the objectives here is to guarantee fairness and protection to athletes in all schools and all sports. And perhaps that kind of exception makes sense for some colleges and some sports. But i think the line drawing may be difficult to do. We can continue this conversation. I am grateful to all of you for being here today. It has been a remarkably productive and informative hearing each of you has brought a perspective externally significant and i want to thank all of you one point that comes across loud and clear is the present system is not working. It is broken. The corrective action taken so far is commendable but so far and adequate. And congress has to do its job to protect student athletes. Thank you all for being here today by that record will remain open for onene week any additiol comments. Anything you want to add in writing. [background noises] [background noises] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] book tv, every sunday on cspan2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. At 8 00 p. M. Eastern jim davis and Michael Graham looked at the decline in Church Attendance in the u. S. By examining who is leading, the reasons why and how to bring people back in their book the great deep searching. It 10 00 p. M. Eastern on after words brian riley of nbc news shares his book where he chronicles how citizens help Law Enforcement find individuals involved in the generally sixth riot at the u. S. Capitol. Interviewed by Politico Senior Legal Affairs Reporter kyle cheney. Watch book tv every sunday on cspan2 find a full program on the Program Guide or watch online anytime at booktv. Org. Cspan camping 2024 coverage as your front row seat to the president ial election. Watch as we fell kenneth on the campaign troth meet and greets, speeches and more as you make up your own mind. Campaign 2024 on the cspan network, cspan now a freak mobile video app or any time online at cspan. Org. Cspan your unfiltered view of politics. Florida Government Republican president ial candidate Ron Rondesantis discussed forr President Donald Trump response to the attacks on israels impact on the 2022 midterm election. Governor also talks about representative kevin mccarys removal as speaker of the house state of the republican party. His rarks came during a politics and eggs event hosted by the New Hampshire institute of politics and the new england council. Ladies and