Transcripts For CSPAN2 Hawaiian 20240703

The head of Hawaiian Electric told house lawmakers the cause of the wildfire that spread has not been determined pinpointing because it could take several months to more than a year. She pledged cooperation of multiple ongoing investigations into what exactly happened. Energy and commerce subcommittee hearing is just over two hours. [background noises] [background noises] before we get started went to take a brief moment of point of personal privilege and the cardinal nooses mind is an article about virginias connection with hawaii and its history. Some of which is good some is not one of the interesting points as a congressman from the ninth district of virginia at the district that currently represent a democrat but the name oftl jennings was the only virginian to vote for hawaiian statehood. Until we are kind of a proud of that our section of the state is little different than other of the state sometimes good sometimes bad but mostly good with that being said vulvar gas would please take their seats. Subcommittee and oversight investigation now come to order. I now recognize myself for five minutes for an Opening Statement. On august 7 at 87th and eighth a series of fires broke out on the island of maui. That including one that devastated the town on the west coast of maui. While they Hawaiian Electric company the county of maui disputes and facts surrounding these events one thing is certain. This series of fires were catastrophic to the state of hawaii. We must make every effort to be vigilant and try and prevent a similar disaster from striking again. Tragically the fire took at least 97 lives. Burn the thousands of acres cost billions of dollars in damage and destroyed multiple native hawaiian cultural and historical landmarks. I am deeply saddened to the stories of those whoi survived andew awaiting news of their lod ones who still remain unaccounted for. Who are still searching for housing and who are wrestling with how they will survive after the fire consumed businesses and erase the islands Tourism Industry but many continue to debate which exact decisions and circumstances contribute to the catastrophics it is not too early to start examining what can be donee better. For example some wildfire experts dense and flammable non native grasses have multiplied across island in recent years facilitate the deadly spread of the recent fires. Other reports of cited utility law experts who maintain Hawaiian Electric waited too long to pursue important upgrades to harden and modernize electric grid against wildfire risk. Still others have argued maui Electric Company a subsidiary of Hawaiian Electric was particular slow in replacing outdated and deterioratingpl poles supporting its power lines. There were many decisionmakers involved along the way theres still much to sort out. Too that end probe some of the concerns some of these concerns are august 2023 letter to each of our invited witnesses. Requesting Additional Information on efforts to address wildfire. We think our witnesses for their requests look forward to discussing later today. I like to introduce each of our witnesses for the first family join today by mrs. Shelley president chief executive officer Hawaiian Electric company, Hawaiian Electric Subsidiary Corporation now Electric Company provides service on maui Hawaiian Electrics its corporations provide 95 of hawaiis residents. Finally we hear from somebody in there somewhere. Mr. Energy officer of Hawaii State Energy office the Office Develop support and supports state energy goals we also welcome chairman of the hawaii Public Utilities commission. He served as the commissioner cr since april 2019 as chair july of 2022. The Commission Among other thingsio regulate literacy rates empower Service Parameters a Public Utility Companies operating in the state merely after it we will convene a second panel consisting of testimony from our colleagues from the hawaiian correctional delegation representative ed kason weiss for statistical test if i will also protest money from representative jolt to cuda whose Second District of hawaiii includes island of maui. There several hundred weight and speculation around the days in which the fire spread and about what has been done or has not been done in years prior. However congress has a responsibility to pursue a Safe National Energy Policy which includes electric infrastructure prepared for events like wildfires and hurricane. Congress has a portion of that responsibility on the state regulators and private sector partners accordingly. Its extremely important we convene today to begin to ask the hard questions. Given this committees role in protecting utility infrastructure and its general jurisdiction over power utilities will focus today on that aspect of the disaster. I hope we have learned that what we learn will form efforts of the federal, state, local level that would protect and reduce the chances of preventable losses of life and property for wildfires in the future. That said i will also tell you we have another hearing went on downstairs look at the electric grid. You will seat members moving in and out because some members on both subcommittees i think the witnesses for being here and participating in our efforts one from his horrible events to prevent similar disasters from unfolding in such a deadly and destructivee manner going forward. With that i yield back and now recognize the Ranking Member of the subcommittee for a five minute Opening Statement by. Thank you, mr. Chairman, good morning everyone. Justd over seven weeks ago powerful wildfires devastated the town of lahaina on the island of maui in hawaii. This was a sudden and horrific tragedy. On behalf of the democratic side we extend our sincere condolences. Nearly 100 people died. Many more have lost their homes and businesses. The firsthand accounts of how quickly the fire spread and the chaos and confusion that resulted are horrendous. Many hawaiiangh neighbors, military service and coast guard members raced to rescue people thatat day. They work to the smokes, flames and pollution to save lives. They are heroes. Many others respond and the immediate aftermath and more on the ground now dedicating to recovery and relief. I understand over 27 federal partners including fema, epa, the u. S. Army, Small Business administration are helping the people of maui get back on their feet. I appreciate the hands on approach representative and senators and how they are supporting and advocating for their neighbors. Top of mind for the congress at this moment of a threatened Government Shutdown must be to a rick ensure the recovery work continues uninterrupted for the people of maui. Today i hope we can learn more about the conditions that cause the fire at what Else Congress can do for the island. Dthere are things we do know already. We know the strong winds from a combined withne Drought Conditions and dry in dy vegetation led to advance warning eight fire on mount we e know the fire started on the edge of town on mauis a west wt coast and quickly grew out of control. Ultimately debits in the town claiming theat lives of too many neighbors. Fire crews were dealing with another fire. We know people are suffering from losses of their Friends Family anden homes Fire Fighters are still working to contain wildfires elsewhere. What we do not know is the exact cause of thet fire and what more if anything could have been done to prevent are starting to spread. Hawaiian electric said one of its power lines ignited an earlier fire in lahaina the morning of august 8. The Maui Fire Department said it had extinguished that fire. But then fire it was reported again and the same location and it quickly spread. Although National Weather service in honolulu began a list issuing alerts before it began important questions remain about whether or more could have been done to notify residents or deenergize a powerline sooner there critical about local officials took in the five years since he wildfire struck maui in 2018. These are important questions that are already being investigated. While i strongly a believe we in congress have an important oversight role to play i do think it wouldve been helpful to have the benefits of on the ground finding from the authorities before pulling the attention of our witnesses away from Recovery Efforts to appear before us. Nonetheless i appreciate your willingness to be here today and hope we can learn more about this tragedy. Whether how itra might have been prevented what can be done to prevent future tragedies like this. Including ensuring that investment made for grid hardening under bipartisan info structure lot and the Inflation Reduction Act are delivered quickly andck effectively. I would also like to learn more about how electric and other infrastructure can be rebuilt in a more resilient way. It has only been seven weeks since the lahaina fire the emergency is not over. Investigators deserve time to do the work thoroughly and present their findings. Until we get a clear picture our primary focus must continue to be on relief and Recovery Efforts for the people of maui. That includes keeping government open and ensuring federal resources are available to them. Thank you, mr. Chairman i yield back. A gentle lady yields back i reckons a chairwoman make the chair of the full committee. Thank you chair. Its a critical what we are examining the tragic events that unfolded on the Hawaiian Island of maui last month for on augusf fires broke out on the island including t one that destroyed e town of lahaina. Our deepest condolences to the people of maui as they face the daunting task of rebuilding their communities. Mourn the loss of loved ones and wrap with the painful memories of that terrifying tapered the pain of seeing your home and your neighbors home destroyed within a matter of hours or even minutes is gut wrenching. At least 97 lives were lost to this disaster. Wewe continue to pray that god provides strength and comfort to their loved ones. Many are still missing. According to an estimate from the university of hawaii specific Disaster Center at cent least 2200 buildings wereis destroyed with about 86 of those buildings being residential. Weight must do everything we can to minimize the chance that such a destructive and deadly disaster will occur again on a maui or anywhere i else in the country. And unfortunately if we fail to learn from this event that very well could. The hawaiian wildlife managemene organization reports that feature the percentage of total land burned by wildfire in hawaii is equal to or greater than any other state in the nation. According to the wildfire experts from the university of hawaii the area burned across all four counties in hawaii each year has increased by three 100 within the last several decades. Eastern washingtonians are no strangers to the disaster consequences of wildfires either. Last month did create an oregon road fires destroyed hundreds of homes, forced evacuation have been linked to two deaths. Hundreds are still recovering from an coping with the destruction of these wildfires. Its difficult to revisit the disaster that occurred weight must examine any factors that could have caused or worsened theid emergency. Identify any unnecessary hazards that were allowed to persist and pinpoint any additional precautions that could have beet taken. I understand the debate about the factors behind the cause and spread of the fires continued. The Hawaiian Electric acknowledgeno that an Early Morning fire on august 8 appears to have been then caused by power lines and fell at high winds. What happened after that particular concern in the second fire that swept through lahaina that afternoon destroyed lives and the town remains open to investigation. Part of our job here in congress is to ensure every american has access to affordable and reliable energy. That responsibility includes making sure energy comes from safe wealth maintain infrastructure. There is emphasis on the competing priorities when it comes to modernizing our electric grid in recent years spread however we must make sure safety means a top priority. I grid thats not prepared for extreme weather or is an adequately maintained is not only unreliable but also on acceptable safety hazard that could potentially cost billions of dollars and endanger lives. While we cannot prevent and control every hazard such as a high wind that struck maui leading up to the fire wheat must harden our grid to hazard address wildfire risk such as it vegetation, overgrowth and implement appropriate precautions for extreme weather. We appreciate all of the witnesses traveling across the country to be here today. You have a difficult road ahead of you and rebuilding after this tragic events. I hope that today we can learn how congress can be a Strong Partner for utilities and state agencies in addressing grid safety concerns. While there other investigations ongoing we hope this hearing provide some clarity on how and why this disaster unfolded such a catastrophic manner. What steps can be taken to minimize the likelihood of it occurring again. I yield back. As a gentle lady yields back a record is the Ranking Member of the full committee for his fiveminute Opening Statement for. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Wildfires it swept of the town iof lahaina on august 8 for catastrophic disaster. I want to offer my deepest sympathy to all those affected. It is a devastating tragedy we must ensure Congress Supports the island every way we can. There are many Unanswered Questions about how this terrible tragedy happened and i am not going to go through all of the things that have been mentioned in terms of what happened or what we know. I know the First Responders try to contain the blaze some residents were able to evacuate but e tragically it was not enoh the fire went completely out of control. Say we cannot overestimate or overstate the enormity of the disaster at the destruction it brought in the fact so many people died and are still missing and in many of the deceased have not been identified and many residents are livingnt in temporary shelts because homes are gone. Officials estimate over 2000 structures were damaged or destroyed. Its going to be a very long road to rebuild Emergency Responders has been mentioned is working day and night to fight the ongoing fires in remote areas of the island. Many factors appear to have contributed to the catastrophic of this for extremely high winds pushing f flames or drive vegetation rapidly escalated the fire spread prevented successful firefighting efforts. Evacuation routes are blocked by police due to downed trees and power lines which resulted in bottlenecks and gridlock on the few roads in and out of lahaina and Power Outages and damaged cell towers exacerbated the communication problems and created further confusion. We do not know why emergency sirens were not activated toward residents or what role the may have played in sparking the fire that ultimately destroyed lahaina. In terms of the government response acting governorha dick this declared a state of emergency of the day the fire started in two days later it the disaster declaration which was immediately granted by the by demonstration. Within 48 hours fema was on the ground and maui assembling crews for search and rescue and survivore assistance. Several official investigations are underway to get to the bottom of this disaster. The attorney general has commissioned the Fire Safety Research institute to conduct a thorough examination of the causes. Its expected to make multiple interim reports before issuing a final report and recommendations around august of next year. Those on the growth of most information and experience appropriate authorities to examine the causes of the fire. And i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. I am concerned this hearing is shifting attention and resources away from ongoing relief efforts on maui the official investigations that are still in the early stages. Congress should focus on ensuring the federal government can continue providing relief to the people of maui. That means funding the government and funding Femas Disaster Relief Fund which the present has asked us to do. That is something specifically and only we can and should do without delay. A reckless Government Shutdown which we know is imminent with slope mauis ability to rebuild and recover. After all this disaster is not overpaid thousands of people ara displaced in a desperate need of permanent housing. Firefighters are still working and utility crews are working to restore power and repair damaged infrastructure. I am hopeful the investigations will provide answers so we can learn from this tragedy to ensure this does not happen again. But right now we must do all that we can to support the residence of Maui Recovery and rebuild. A shutdown is not the answer obviously. It is hard for us here in the midst of this potential shutdown to be talking about how much we could do because we dont know if the governments going to be able to do anything. If by tomorrow night or saturday the Government Shutdown that certainly is not easy for us to say to you we are going to help when we dont even know if the governments going to be open. My main thing and i know it sounds political but i cant help it because if the government shuts down its a serious question about what we are actually going to do. But it any case we appreciate everyone beingny here. We are determined to do whatever we can to help. So thank you, mr. Chairman. I think the gentleman a judgment yields back that concludes member something saves a chair elect are my members pursuant to Committee Rose all members written up in statements of a part of thest record please provide this to the clerk properly. Again, we want to thank our witnesses are being here today and taken the time to testify before this subcommittee. You will have an opportunity to give an Opening Statement fell by round of questions from our members. Our Witnesses Today Shelee Kimura president chief executive officer of polite x. Why state Energy Office and mr. Chair of the hawaii Public Utility Commission. Appreciate wellbeing t here. I look forward to hearing from you. You are aware this subcommittee is holding oversighte hearing ad when doing so we have a practice of taking testimony under oath could you need to have an o objection to taking testimony under oath or giving your testimony under oath . Seeing no objection we will proceed. I would also o advise or you are entitled to be advised by counsel pursuant to house rules to any of your desire to be advised by counsel during your testimony today . Alright i dont see any asking for that. If you would all please stand and raise your right hand. New promise of truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . Seeing the witnesses all answered in the affirmative enough sworn and you may sit down. Youre sworn in and under oath subject to penalties set forth in title 18 action 1001 of the nine states code. With that we will not recognize for her five minute Opening Statement. Correct thank you chair. Push your mic. Is it working . Rex is notot loud enough maybe u can pulled a little closer to you . Is that better . Thats a little better what door technicians they are we o okay . I think we are good go ahead. A low hug good morning. On august 8 in lahaina was a human loss and devastation at a speed and scale that is difficult for our hearts and minds to process. I want to start by honoring those lost in those whose lives have been forever changed by this overwhelming and tragic event. Most of you know the word aloha. There is another word in the hawaiian language. Loosely translated this word means responsibility. But like a loja it cannot be simply defined. It is a deep sense of responsibilities thats both ana obligation and a privilege. It is a responsibility that is been entrusted to you by your family, your community, by the generations that came before you and those that will follow you. Is ones responsibility within a bigger system or community to which one belongs. It is a privilege to have within this interdependent system into one another. For generations past, present, future Hawaiian Electric is to hawaii. We are committed to be there for maui and lahaina for as long as it takes to recover, to rebuild and to help ensure a tragedy like this never happens again. In that spirit i hope all of us can see it as a shared. Our responsibility to honor the people of lahaina as we do this work as part of a collective community. I hope we canan start to find solutions that will help protect hawaii and the rest of t the nation from increasing threats of familiar Natural Disasters like hurricanes and those that we have rarely experienced including droughts that can fuel catastrophic wildfires on tropical islands. Hawaii is the most isolated population on earth. There is no electrical connection at the continental u. S. For the continental islands. This is one of the reasons hawaii has the highest electric rate in the nation. On an island we have to be our own safety net. We cannot call in a neighboring state if we run short. Our isolation is also one of the drivers for efforts to be energy independent. To get off expensive volatile imported fossil fuels is not only about the environment and about our economy and Energy Security. As utilities we are small about 470,000 customers on five islands. 70000 on maui. The department of defense is our largest customer. Hawaii is home to the u. S. Endo Pacific Command and we are the only utility in the nation for all components of one combatant command. I became president and ceo of Hawaiian Electric in january ofi 2022. Every day i feel a tremendous responsibility to our customers, communities and employees. Since august 8 i spent much of my time on maui x in the devastation firsthand. Our Team Including maui employees who have been personally impacted by this tragedy has been working tirelessly to support our community. We all want to learn what happened on august 8 so that it never happens again. On that day a fire at 6 30 a. M. I will refer to as the morning fire appears to have been called by Hawaiian Electric power line that fell in high winds. The maui county Fire Department promptly responded to thiss fir. Reported by 9 00 a. M. It was contained. After monitoring it for several hours the Fire Department determined the fire had been extinguished. They left the scene in the early afternoon. At about 3 00 p. M. At the time time whenall of hawaiian electrr lines and west maui have been deenergized for more than six hours a second fire the afternoon fire began in the same area. The cause of that afternoon fire that spread to lahaina has not been determined. We are working tirelessly to figure out what happened. We are cooperating fully with federal and state investigators. Indicated 12 18 months to conclude. I look forward to fulfilling our shared and respective to honor the people of maui as we Seek Solutions to protect hawaii and the rest of the nation from other deadbeat disasters. Chairman duncan, chairman griffith, d making member, rankg member castor and members of the committee my name is mark glick cheap Energy Office of the wide state Energy Offices noted my response the committees that have august 30 my office appreciates the thorough expiration of the causes and effects of the tragic events that occurred on august 8, 2023b we sure the nations resolve to stand with the people of lahaina in the request to heal, grieve, and to recover. I like to have it if you points for the committee. A driving force for hawaiis aggressive pursuit of energy selfsufficiency is due to our deep concern over Oil Price Volatility our economy and costofliving. Hasnt been and continues to be the source of primarily due to russias invasion of ukraine resulted in a 40 higher diesel costs on the island and maui county which has only 18 Renewable Energy. On the flipside with 60 Renewable Energy only explains a 5 increase in energy costs are in the same time has the lowest average electricity rates in the states. In other words adopting renewables while achieving other policy objectives. Hawaiis new normal with a wildfires along a real threat was first realized with hurricane lane in august of 2018 the California Wildfires is not recognized hawaiis wet and dry periods are more pronounced equivalent to hurricane since a deadly fire in lahainas office discussed with the attorney general of the parties is where investigations with respect to Hawaiian Electrics actions therefore be inappropriate for the Energy Office to comment on this issues at this time. We take it all hazards approach to resilience and Service Emergency support function number 12 within femas National Recovery framework. Our Broader Mission is to help mitigate and respond to threats on Energy Resilience. Focusing on Energy Security plants and response efforts. In that role we previously flaggedd invasive grasses and vegetation on the island of maui and elsewhere in hawaii as resilience threats. She make it clear the Energy Offices no authority on oversight oren enforcement of utilities or the private sector on energy matters. We also see no evidence that indicates Renewable Energy development is restricted available funds for Vegetation Management. Key Energy Resilience efforts with participation july of 2019 to november 2021 and the resilience working group. Establishes part of the hawaii electric grid planning process with oversight by the hawaii. But working group considered hurricanes earthquakes tsunamis volcanoes wildfire and fiscal Cyber Attacks is the greatest threat to grides resilience. Recommend a set of resilience measures among the recommendations enhanced grid areas continue to harden and reinforce critical transmission circuit and upgrade structures continue planning for expanding water resistant underground cables come establish parity, ey circuits with enhanced restorationn capabilities and greater hardening. Consider adopting x advanced advancedtechnology more distribd resource including microgrids emergency backup operations. And develop wildfire mitigation strategies worstcase wildfire event late location just 16 miles south of lahaina working group emphasized owners and operators must Work Together and close partnerships to coordinate disaster planning and recover it with the shared responsibilities between the powers companies, key customers and the k government. The final consulting integratedd grid plan was submitted to the by Hawaiian Electric may 12 of this year and is currently under review by the. The Energy Offices now completing the Energy System Critical Infrastructure vulnerability and resilience assessment of fema. This assessment of a water hose major supply distribution demand networks the states Critical Infrastructure risk covers electricity and Energy Infrastructure. The Energy Office plans to follow up pending fema approval with the second phase of analysis for quiet, maui, hawaii counties in conclusion it is clear multipronged approach to prevent mitigate respond to waterpark threats is necessary involving both shortterm and longterm action. These solutions require a shared commitment of private and Public Sector will and resources to safeguard our essential energyeq infrastructure. For maui ny county tragedy hawaii expresses its sincere gratitude to the federal assistance we have received in a future support and assistance as a weight recover and rebuild. Im happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you gentlemen i recognize for his asuncion for his openingng statement. Thank you. Chair griffith, Ranking Member, members of the subcommittee on behalf of the hawaii Public Utilities commission i wish to express our appreciation for the sincere outpouring of support for our communities in the wake of this tragedy. We appreciate focus on this issue and the opportunity to speak to you as addressing the yincreasing number of the magnitude of Natural Disasters requires unprecedented levels of collaborativera action. We are still grappling with the devastation of this tragedy. Our hearts remain with the victims and their lovedai ones a bit irreversibly impacted supporting them in the months and years go by you have a copy of my written statements the commission wishes to share its perspective on the following three topics to regulate Hawaiian Electric utilities particularly as it to its Natural Disaster preparedness, safety, reliability and resilience. Second, commissions prioritiesse is responding to the august wildfires that include addressing immediatedr needs, preventing future catastrophic events, ensuring reliable, safe and Affordable Energy services. And protecting by utilizing investigative findings to guide potential restoration action. And third the Commission Activities to mitigate the risk of a wildfires that may be caused by or impacted the electric grid. The commission and myself looks forward to answering any questions about these and other topics during this hearing. As well as collaborating on an ongoing basis to ensure events like the mall wheat wildfires or any other Natural Disasters never occur again. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you gentlemen for his Opening Statement. Thank you all for your testament we will move to the question answer portion of the. Hearing i will begin the questioning and reckoned as myself for five minutes. My Congressional District in southwest virginia as a mountainous. Rural, spread out. And is actually by land mass larger thanai hawaii. So i can understand some of the problems and concerns you all have. But the picture i gets is there were lots of warning signs out there that wildfires were a prominent threats. Particularly on that end of maui. So i guess you all gather information in realtime on Weather Reports when planting preventativend maintenance and Power Generation and before a storm like this do you have plans in place to watch whats happening and whats going to occur question ripping of the National Weather service was telling folks a couple of days in advance this was going to be big one. Thank you for that question. We do monitor. We were very aware of the red flag warning of a high wind. Forecasters were indicating it would be 35 45 mileperhour winds with gusts of 60 Miles Per Hour. They later indicated as this was happening they had been forecasted parts of the states were experiencing much highergh wins hunt gusts of about 80 Miles Per Hour progress when did you get that information re watching this your cells with someone monitoring that on a minute by minute basis . We have our teams. Not me personally. We have our teams that are getting the information from third parties but its not our own team looking at it but they are getting it from third parties looking at that. Do you know whenhe you learnd that winds were going to be higher than y originally anticipated . I do not have that information right now progress could you get that to the committee after this hearing . What so aptly follow up wither you. Here is the reason i ask a great week at snowstorms you dont have that one. But we get snowstorms in our School Systems will be watching the Weather Forecast it before the first flake drops if they see significant weather they whether theyshut the school sys. E decisionmaking process in not the energizing assuring the power off in this area which already the cause of invasive plants, because of the wooden poles, because of the wires inir the lines insulad were already at risk that were known. What was thehe decisionmaking process to turn the power off on these lines during a go. This be back in 2019 our teams. I appreciate the history. On that morning what was your strategy. Were there people awake all night monitoring the storm to see what we could do, what is going on. Tell the American People what was going on that morning and why you did it deenergize the earlier. Im trying din to explain. Youre going through the process, im trying to figure out what happened that day on august. Im trying to answer your question on why we did not deenergize. Is those decisions were made years before as part of a plan. As part of our protocols for them trying to help you understand what our protocols are in that kind ofoc situation. In 2019 our team started developing a wildfire mitigation plan. Based on what they had learned of the planning california including the preemptive shutoff program. That would be the ps ps. Yes. That was not the appropriate fit for hawaii. Hawaii is very unique and through the process and the determination that was made, we had other protocols in place when there is high winds. When you were asking why we didnt shut off the power, that is not her protocol to do that. Stop right there. Going forward are you reexamining that in the Public Safety power shut off programs are you looking at that now in reexamining your protocols because they did not work . We are absolutely reexamining our protocols. I want to make it absolutely clear that the afternoon fires, the cause of the fire has not yet been determined. I heard your testimony and i want to confirm, you never reenergize your power lines one to shut them down . Is that correct. That is right. A littlele bit before 7 00 a. Our lines were not reenergize. How long would it take fort the energy to get out of the power lines, i understand it takes time once you push the button to turn it off, how long does it take where the lines are no longer dangerous to the public or to firefighters, et cetera. I dont know that exact answer. I apologize, my time is up i gihave to yield even though im the subcommittee chair i have to follow the clock to and now i yield back and recognize mr. Castor and Ranking Member for five minutes. I wouldve focus on the commissions,s, i was in honolulu on the indo Pacific Command in a bipartisan we were headed to the pacific and it was extraordinarily windy and everyone was commenting on it and they did not have an understanding with the extent of the devastation in lahaina but officials havee warned about why hands and wildfire risks. Information that we have on august 6 the National Weather service warned of conditions due to severe drought and strong winds. August 7 National Weather service issued a flag warning indicating severe fire risks. Like i said they were aware of the wording from the National Weather service is that correct . That is correct. I want to dive intoo the protocol what exactly were the protocols on the books that insured when you receive the warnings the action was good to be taken immediately. The protocols on the books for many years was to disable a setting onic our system that automatically recloses a circuit as a fault. If there is a fault indicated on the line it will not be energized they were opening it will not reenergize. How quickly after you received the warning did you have to do that. I dont know the exact time and this is subject to check. I believe the warninghe happened overnight and by the morning the protocols were put into place but we can get that for you. Do they have the authority to deenergize this line to response to weather conditions. You to repeat the question. Do they have the authority to proactively deenergizes . Y the e when they receive. Yes they do. When did heico become aware that when of its power lines was down in lahaina. We had a number of power lines coming down. Im trying to remember when the first one was done. I cannot recall right now. There was a lot happening from august 7 to august 8. Do you know exactly when . When did you receive notice. I received notice of lines going down or basically in the afternoon of the eighth when heico informed us that the activated the incident management q. Last year heico sent them a plan to the puc to spend 189 million on grid hardening to make the energy grid more resilient and last month they announced 95 million u. S. Doe announced 95 million to lahaina from the bipartisan infrastructure. Mr. Martin can you describe the harding plan and what steps you have already taken to improve your line . Prior to the fire and how you intend to i use these federal dollars. The federal investment that we were informed of we dont yet have it we are in discussion on when we will get that. That is going to help fund our transmission and distributiontr resilience program, that is a Multiyear Program that m we have in front of the Public Utilities micommission. We had filed for approval for that program in june of 2022. That program was a result of years of work including a lot of work with the stakeholders as well and that Program Includes addressing critical transmission and distribution infrastructure. You said you been working on this for a number of years. You were not waiting for the federal dollars hopefully what work had been underway already to protect against the risk. We had been in process on doing work but utility is always doing hardening work. The proposal was to increase and further the work that we were doing. Do you have that plan in writing on what had been proposed for maui and what was not completed. We haveav the work in writing that was proposed and we also have our wildfire mitigation plan and we began implementing that even before the approval of the plan. Thank you very much i think the committee would like to see, the documents that they were imposed for years ahead of time and exactly a what work had been taken advanced to the devastating fires. We would be happy to provide that to you. Thank you for agreeing to provide that information. I will recognize the chairwoman of the committee mr. Hunter mrse minutes of questioning be back in your written testimony you state that your office actively develop policies to achieve Renewable Energy Energy Resiliency with the Legislature Public utility commissions state agencies and other relative stakeholders and the hawaii utilities Hawaiian Electric said most can be said due to trees that are outside of the rightofway. Utility best practices to identify proactively remove these trees with the removal be paid for by the utility a robust hazard tree program can reduce the amount of damage that occurred during a major storm. Additionally in the response to the committees question about the Vegetation Management Hawaiian Electric stated from the vast woke of the grasses ons maui are not on or controlled by White Electric the utility added illuminating vegetation such as grass present an easement and right away but not tall enough to contact the line is not generally within Hawaiian Electric rights. A 2021 report on wildfire prevention by the maui county gGovernment Commission concludd above ground power lines that are short or low hanging could start wildfire particularly in wind or stormy conditions, this condition is as asked abated by overgrown areas in the rightofway. Would you agree preventing damage to powerlines by vegetation and preventing the spread of wildfires could destroy electric infrastructure is a resilient issue . Certainly Vegetation Management is critical and can cause damage to powerlines. Does your office plan to review policy changes that may be needed to address hazard your dutilities, right away and flammable overgrown visitation of electric and for structure . We are aware of investments that Hawaiian Electric enter other utility Hawaiian Island have made an Hawaiian Electric without the invasive trees that have cause great damage in our policies are looking to policy changes will continue to look at ways to also work with the privatedo landowners and to tryo have more cooperative efforts because a lot of these as you mentioned dont happen in the rightofways. Thank you. There are the overgrown shrubs are in abundance of dry grasses under Hawaiian Electric line but not enough to contact the line. You maintain that the committee cannot do anything m m about tht and it sounds like thats what was cited and based on Hawaiian Electric response i wanted to give you a moment to elaborate. Thank you for the opportunity. Our easement and rightofway allow us for sharp Vegetation Management is aroundro her line. It does not its not stated right to take care of the grass under our lines on private property. That is an issue that we all interstate need to be looking at. Given what happened on august 8 and i think we agree thats a local issue. Take you i understand Hawaiian Electric mentioned hazard tree removal for the Public Utilities commission for climate adaptation, transmission and distribution resilience program. Understand the application has not been approved, is y that correct. That is correct is in process. What does Hawaiian Electric do if the employees or contractors identify a tree that appears to be at risk of contacting Hawaiian Electric line weather to poor conditions orr extreme weather. I would have to get back to you on exactly what happens. We recently had an issue where there was a tree as a result of the fires in the country of maui that was at risk for falling we had contractors out there that would take down the line and the Property Owner was also there and indicating that this tree was at risk. Would you speak to the policy before the fires and how the utility wouldve responded. The reason why were going to get approval for hazard tree removal as i understand it because were not at this point allowed to go ahead and do that as part of a larger program. Thank you. More questions to come. At this point my time has expirednk. I yield back. The gentlelady yields back now we recognize mrs. Caskey for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I really want to thank the witnesses in the tragedy that you have faced in the Community Sentiments that must be so overwhelming and i want to say my condolences for the loss of life and the loss of history and such a beautiful community. One of the things that really shocked me, there was misinformation that was being spread at the time. I dont know if this became an issue i did want to ask you about it. I know there were some social media generated by china and other malicious actors who were seen that it was caused by government space lasers discouraging some people dealing with fema and that kind of misinformation, disinformation that was beingul circulated, how shameful is that. Oi just want to ask any or allf you if this disinformation had any affected if you had to deal with that at the same time and time to address the tragedy and the things that happened after words and all the work that you had to do do the best for your communities. If you had any comments on that hopefully it did not have a big effect but let me hear from you. This is not an area of expertise but i have been on the ground in lahaina and i have been talking with people. It is very distracting and it creates a divide in the community. And in a time where people need to come together and support the oecommunity it does create noise that makes it much more happen. T for that to talking about it personally for our own company i recall having conversations and we would gather every morning and maui in the big circle at 7 00 a. M. Before the cruise went out and i remember telling them stay focused, be safe, dont let all that noise and social mediatr distract you and bother you because we have work to do and we need to stay focused on serving our community. I am sure that is a conversation and others that are helping the community needed to have as well. The other thing that i wanted to mention. All of the investigation is not complete. What kind of impact does not have on your testimony today. What are wee waiting for and wht what you find out that is not yet been revealed because theres not a complete investigation, can you answer that. It is difficult to speculate on what might be found or what might not be found. This is a complex situation as youve heard from many of the members here. Ive talked about my Opening Statement as being part of a community. There is a system here that was in play for all of the conditions to happen at one time that resulted in the devastation in lahaina. There is a lot to unpack read is very complex many people and organizations are involved in many conditions are involved and that all needs to be taken into account. Those are all critically important to understand how all of that works together as a independent system to figure out the right solution for hawaii as well. How soon do you think that youre going to get the final information from which you complete ahead that the changes that need to be made. The attorney general is doing one of the investigations hawaii state attorney general and the atf supporting the Fire Department in the county of maui. I understand there sandy will take 12 18 months so were in the early stages and we expect ours to take many months as well. Thank you, my time is expired and i yield back to the gentlelady is yielding back now we recognize doctor burgess for five minutes of questioning. Thank you for holding this hearing today it is important and i appreciate her witnesses being here. Is there ever any option to bury the delivery lines, are they always good to be above ground or is it to cost prohibited bury the lines . From all of you actually. The standard in maui is for the lines to be overhead. A customer can opt to have undergraduate, they have to pay for the underground and is very expensive. So some customers opt to do that and they pay for that. 50 of the lines in maui are underground. 50 in comparison, california is about 33 undergraduate. Yet more underground delivery. Yes. Obviously some of the infrastructure is going to have to be replaced as you rebuild. I would ask is under grounding a reconsideration as you rebuild. As i talked to Community Members in lahaina they would like to have the lines underground. Understand these are conversations that we will have to continue c to have and we are going to have to figure them out. Under grounding in general is five times more expensive and on the small island of maui with only 70000 that could getha very expensive in a place where they have the highest rates in the nation and we are already facing an economy many of our people who lived in hawaii for a w long time can no longer afford to live in hawaii. Those are the kinds off considerations that we have when we make these decisions in the conversations as a community to make sure were doing the right thing and the best thing for that community. Thank you for the answer. In your statement you said that the commission of which you chair will take a proactive approach to ensure hawaii electric mitigate this risk, i would like for you to elaborate in the under grounding of the utility one of those measures . Like she said we look at all aspects of whether or not it goes underground. And she said there is the option if the customer does not want to have a underground certainly we will. A lot of our newot york communities across the state we have a underground versus overhead. It does come at some cost to the payor in the company and to all of us at the state of hawaii. One of our things is looking at the cost. I will say as an urban planner and knowing the conditions underground especiallyn in hawai you can hit theth water table pretty quickly those or other consideration were technical considerations that we need to look at. There is a cost to maintaining. All of that is wrapped up in how we look at the work that Hawaiian Electric would do or even on the island of hawaii its all the same considerations. At the end of the day are we impacting the ratepayers greatly just for the island. We dont have subsidize in about another island grid. Sometimes the cost of doing nothing isos prohibitive also. Why dont you ask you does age of hawaii make a difference. I dont know the term but the amount of coefficient of sag does increase the line ages. I would not be able to tell you that i am not a technical person. The comment was made in your testimony that some of the infrastructure is getting pretty old, is that fair to say. The brittleness of the lines likelihood that it might break again whatever term im not aware of is going to increase in the vegetation that may not pose a problem when the line was installed, now it may because of the physical configuration is different is that a fair concern. That is fair and i think some of the lines depending on the age added to brute type of standard at the time. Our rules are perspective. Figure to be doing maintenance and if its going to be doing maintenance on the lines in installing new lines its getting up to the particular code at that time. If sag is different today we would expect utilities at the current standard. Thank you mr. Chairman i yield back. Ta we now recommend a Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman i guess i really iterate again that i appreciate the witnesses being here and helping us understand what we can do in congress to help with this catastrophe. I cant help but think we might be better off being a home that we would be better off if we could figure out how to avoid the shutdown. Again appeal to my colleagues on the other side to workea with us and prevent the shutdown. At any case i m know there are many details still to beed uncovered but i like the issue about the electrification of h ceos power line i understand that theyve taken responsibility for the brushfire that broke out before 7 00 a. M. On august 8 near lahaina road. Is that correct and will you explain what led them to this conclusion. We have a team doing an investigation and many have also seen a video that a resident had taken in that area in high winds are lines to the ground and it appears that a fire was parked in the area. I am sorry. I was going to expand his started on a grassy area between the sidewalk in the road and we think it traveled up to a field that was behind one of the homes and as we understand it turned into a 3acre fire in the Fire Department was able to contain it and extinguish it. Its clear your lines were energized before 7 00 a. M. On august 8 and that fire was eventually contained by the Maui Fire Department and monitored for hours until early that afternoon. Around 3 00 p. M. The employees reported a fire in the same area as earlier fire and this is a blaze that grew out of control and destroyed heine. Is that accurate. That is right by that time at 3 00 p. M. Our lines had been out for over six hours. Because they were already deenergized at that time. Can you explain when hh co shut that off when did that happen. Just before 7 00 a. M. None of our lines in the west maui were energized. How can you confirm that the lines were not energized. This is a based on our system data enter smart meters in the discussions with our employees so that is part of the information that we looked at this from all angles because it was a critical fact so we made sure that we looked at that very closely and were making Information Available to the atm. Its still important for the fire investigators to determine the role of the power lines. Have you agreed to cooperate with investigations in this utmatter. Absolutely weve been fully cooperating to make your Information Available to them. H hd co conducting an internal investigation into the overall events of that day. We are still early in our investigation. When you expect to have results from your internal investigation and i you commit that itll go public when you have the results. Dont have an exact timeline on how long it will take but we expect many months to get done and im sure theret will be more to talk about once we know the results. Are you willing to commit to make those results public once investigation is completed. I think it is too early to speculate on what comes out in what form but we are committed to sharing what is critical with the public on this. Carleton is there any reason why you would not make it public . You seem to be hesitating a little bit. I think it is too early to speculate on what that will look like in the future. We are focused on finding out what happened to make sure it never happens again. Alright im just going to conclude that we pledge to be a part of the people of maui as a recovering rebuild and do whatever we can to help on both sides of the aisle here. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you the Ranking Member yields back and ill recognize myself for five minutes for questions. I want to ask you these questions it is about how we would honor to remote areas. Im from kentucky with the power lines and im interested moving forward. I believe Hawaiian Electric and the subsidiaries have equipment running to remote territories. Equipment running to remote territories. I would love to learn more how you monitor that and the grid for potential problems, new sources have reported on monday august the seventh at 10 47 p. M. With the Security Camera at the maui bird a Conservation Center with a bright flashse in the wos and one person stated the power then went out and the surrounding forest was on fire shortly after that. Was hawaiian t electric aware of an incident involving the power that time. I do not know what was known right at that moment. We wouldve had a fault indicated but i cant tell you exactly what our personnel new in that moment. To the personnel no from an internal system or did you only know it when the news report came out. I would need to get back to you to let you know exactly what they would know in that moment. Several new sources reported that data shows a number of line falls in yourr electric grid on august the seventh and Early Morning of august the eighth in the Washington Post aligned fault powerline come in contact with another object were was knocked down. Does Hawaiian Electric appoint a Centaur Technology to detect or display these faults . And you say the last part. Does Hawaiian Electric employ any sensors orr technologies to display these faults . We do have technology to do that is but were also investing in Additional Technology to have awareness of whats happening on our systems and more control and awareness for systems. Any of these faults i know youre looking at additional but you do have fault detectors as you said. Were any of these working on the states and did they alert the company that there could be an issue of some of the lines. Did anyone respond to go check at the problem . I tell you in general we had many indication of faults in employees going out to look at these faults. For the particular one i cannot tell you specifically what was happening in that moment. Also in Hawaiian Electric committee august 2023 letter Hawaiian Electric stated it had purchased five video cameras from maui in 2023 and they are slated to be installed this year. Where does maui electric plan to place them. You dont have to provide specific size i like to know what your w priorities are. Understand we just got the camerase this week and we intend to place some of them in west maui. I assure you of that. Did you purchase the cameras because of the fire or prior. I understand those were ordered. They came in right after this unfortunately. That concludes my questions i will yield is any chairman need anytime. I recognize the chair of the committee the subcommittee. Thank you, mr. Chair. We were just speculating on answers to me and ms. Castor and the impression i was left with you were monitoring the weatherr situations in advance but the protocols were not triggered in the morning. Did the people who were monitoring weather conditions not have the authority to trigger earlier than in the morning of the fire . They have the protocols to do that. They have the authority to trigger the protocols temecula laws and the authority. Do you know why they did not hetrigger it when the storm is building overnight and why they did not trigger sooner than the next morning. I need to get back to you on the timing on when they found out about red flag warning and when the protocol started. Let me get back to you. We would like an answer to that but the question remains we knew they would be likely to become a but you did not have the particles ready to go. My time is upy i have to yield back thats a question the committee will want to answer to at some point. Protocols were ready to go just to p be clear they were in place ready to go in theau authority to institute it at the discretion by assessing the situation and understanding what the Weather Report is. I yield back. The chair yields back in the recognize mr. Peters with california for five minutes. I want to thank all of the witnesses for beingng here today in these difficult circumstances. Our area is familiar with devastating effects of wildfires and you have my sympathy forr whats happened in your community. We know what was built and i appreciate your need at home will be along a difficult process. Due to the increasingly devastated impacts, Climate Change and resilience of threats, these require largescale of grid infrastructure. And identifying opportunities to reduce ignition to underground power lines for instance but the Risk Assessment has to go beyond the threatd of ignition and ensure communities have evacuation routes should that is prioritized and enforced. The wildfire will require a conference of response wherever it is faced. Can you september 19 letter to the committee withh the advance assistance 2. 0 project to provide hawaii i a specific framework for Hazard Mitigation in the strategy implementation what are the unique challenges facing grid and for structure on maui. Some of the uniquef challengs really have to do a needed approach being able to address problems in infrastructure and our home rule state we have county government control of property taxes in the county has jurisdiction on some of the initial Emergency Management as well and better ways to coordinate that is compromised. What is the role of the state strengthening the grid and investments to address any challenges that youve identified especially challenges unique to hawaii we met we provide recommendations to the working groups and other forms that we participate in and also participated in regulatory proceedings and the recommendations that we pursue vigorously through the process. Then we follow up after words with the commission and we work with stakeholders inte the stat. Of the main specific recommendations about the grid. Certainly we identified a number of grid improvements that needed to be made. To the state follow the recommendation of making investments or changes. The interesting thing the working group that we participated in most recently as i mentioned submitted the recommendations in 2022 and the full report of the integrated great plan was submitted in may of 2023 for the Public Utilities commission has to have an opportunity to review and issue a decision and order. We hope that will be forthcoming in the next 12 months. The same question what was the role that the puc place in strengthening the grid and how has been the response to your work. Take you for your question. Specifically because i dont have a lot of time. Hawaiian electric june 22 application to invested 190 million in five years to upgrade distribution of the structure. Thats coming along well in the filing of the application and an opportunity for Hawaiian Electric to get some federal money to supplement that. It saves our ratepayers basically half of the cost of the project. And it was announced for the department of energy and its talking over and how they would get that money granted to us. We have committed at the Public Utilities commission to surrender a decision in the announcement of that award. Is unsecure appreciate the role of this Infrastructure Investment of the transmission to fire and resiliency and sorry that this came as you were appearing to deal with it. I wish you the very, very best and we send her love and prayers to the folks in hawaii. The gentleman yields back, now the gentlelady from general florida. For five minutes. Thank you chairman under chairman and or witnesses for appearing before the committee on this very important topic and as we all know the fire brought a horrific loss and truly a tragedy everyone impacted in our hearts and goes out to everyone who is experiencing a loss. Its my hope in this hearing that we not only get answers much needed answers for so many people but we can identify ways that we can avoid another tragedy. Im going to start with you ms. Camara did i say that correctly. Weve seen the reports that Hawaiian Electric may not have maintained the electrical equipment. I would like to give you opportunity to respond to those claims specifically in the response to this committee august 30 letter Hawaiian Electric stated inspection mitigation on maui fire risk include test and treat. That is the inspection and you further explain as part of the test and Treat Program that you were looking for indicators of strength and expection for termites et cetera being from florida i know what humidity and heat and wind and g fault can do to environments and assets. I understand its a bit more challenging. In the report you stated you luperform test and treat progras on approximately 29000 of the 31000 and maui county since 2013. Why were there approximately 2000 that were not subjected to the same testing. If i could take a moment i want to clarify earlier talking about in terms of the timing of the red flag warning will be instituted tote protocols. Into double check on the information. And the warning was initiated overnight and by the morning of august 7 at 7 00 a. M. We instituted a protocols. I wanted to make the clarification the day before all of this happened. On the polls you are absolutely right, 29 and 31000 for the last ten years and the last 2000 my understanding we havent got into those you and the part of a program now. Looked at the wall street journal article that talked about this recently as well. You can certainly submit that for the record but for the purposes of time if any of those poles that were not tested and treated the 2000 plus. If they were not part of the program over the ten year span. Were any of those the one located in the area struck by the fire on seventh and eighth . I dont know the answer to the question right now. As we indicated there is a lot happening in were still f in response and we havent been able to look at all those things. Its a very good question and something we will look at. Near the fire looked at one of the polls and we know that was inspected in 2022. Thats an t indication of holesn the areas and timing anywhere. I appreciate it and i know my stay in district took a cat 3 hurricane and that recovery comes first. Certainly in the future it would be helpful to understand that the particular poles were in the areas also what we could be doing for the future in terms of mitigating this issue with a composite hold, concrete, steele, looking at a variety where theres areas especially prone to having a weakened structure. That would be helpful. I have 39 seconds. Im going to jump around. The report that you issued that the county issued at the 2021 july 2021 the county of maui Government Commission with the wildlife reduction in the cost of maui that is not binding correct. You are aware of the county of maui that was reported to the county of maui. Did anyone from utility engage with maui county or the cost of the Government Commission to find his with a hawaii electric would help address the concerns that were laid on this report. Based on what i was told we were not passed with the recommendations from the county of maui. Those recommendations went to personnel within the county of maui and we were not necessarily passed with the recommendations. That said with the content of the recommendation or the two recommendations we were already doing that and is part of ourc wildfire mitigation. My time is expired but i think its important to nail down what happen when jurisdiction other recommendations and who takes responsibility for them. I know you said you implement to the number of them and i would like to know where the liability falls,. Thank you for yielding i recognize the lady from alabama for five minutes of questioning. I think the chairman of the witnesses for a period its heartbreaking what happened to lahaina and i really hope that we can get things worked out for this people suffered so much. Look forward to hearing from my oncolleagues from hawaii. I know this hangs heavy over them. I really want to ask after we decided by the Public Utility Commission for instance filing to perform vegetation under a power line easements. How does the Committee Commission verify the work that was actually performed. We would constantly follow up with the utility either through reporting whichever variety of reporting monthly or semiannually or annually but we want to make sure how is impacting the repair and if the spending is in the right place to take care of things and that we see progress on whatever the program is versus not seeing progress. I understand you want to look out for the ratepayer but i have timberland and theres a power line that goes through it in the Power Company is very diligent of keeping the vegetation cut down making sure there is not fuel underneath the wires that can be ignited and if it were ignited it would be damaged with the lines in the polls and support the line. I am up there and i see was being done. He period people live around there. Have there been people on maui that has been reported with the excessive growth of vegetation is that something that people were aware of and a problem for wildfire. Those would not come to the Public Utilities commission. What i need to know if the public on the Power Company in the Power Company dont take action of the commitment. There is a commission that doesnt know about it. The commission would know to the reporting that we have, i think the immediate is really contingent in the responsibility of the utility to act on the notices from the public. What if they dont act on it. Are there any penalties or actions that can be taken by the commission or if our company with the Due Diligence that i think every Power Company should and make sure they mitigate any risk for the wildfire and the harm to the public in any other way. We do have processes in place and we could call it the utility before us and to explain their actions. Are there any penalties. Are there fines or is there any way to exercise enforcement if the Power Company is not complying with the requirements. We would have to figure out any penalties or actions that the utility needs to make to our process. You say you have to figure it out, that leads me to conclude you would have those in place now. We do have those in place and we have to follow a process in order to get to that. If you find them out of compliance, you find them . What action dod you take do you find the company . There are a number of ways that we could make sure that the utility is accountable and held accountable and it includes everything from conditions all the way up to penalties. Like i said we use our process. Im not satisfied with the answers. I would like for the witness to provide to the committee in detail the enforcement measures that the commissionis can impose on a utility that does not comply with the regulation. Certainly. Into provide to the committee we appreciated. Thank you, mr. Chairman i yield back. I recognize mr. Tomkow for his five minutes of questioning. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you and the rookie member for hosting this hearing which is critically important. I know and must be extremely difficult to be away from home while Recovery Efforts on maui are still underway and we dont have answers to many important questions. I sincerely appreciate the witnesses being here to help us begin to understand how the disaster the relief efforts are golden. I want to focus on the federal governments response to understand what support you have received and what more could be done to assist Recovery Efforts in us and future emergencies. On august 8 the Lieutenant Governor issued an emergency proclamation and activated the y in National Guard shortly after it became clear that lahaina fire could not be controlled. On august 10 Hawaii Governor green requested a major gastric declaration and President Biden and be duly approved. On august 18 President Biden amended the declaration to make it more Resources Available for responsive Recovery Efforts. Can you describe the federal involvement with recovery and maui and what more might help support short shortterm Recovery Efforts on maui. Our teams are part of the Maui Emergency Operations Center and in the center there working alongside and maui county is correlating the resources of fema, epa and a number of different organizations. All of that assistance is greatly appreciated and made a Significant Impact on our states ability to support the lahaina community. As we move forward, i cant speak to the daytoday things that are needed. As we move forward and we need to rebuild what is happenedd in maui. It is going to take a lot to clear what is there and we appreciate the assistance that is being provided for the effort not just ours but the entire area into make it safe for people to go back. There is a lot of toxins and hazards in those kinds of things. That is good to be critically important but as we rebuild is good to be very expensive. Im very concerned about how the county of maui and the citizens of maui argue to be able to absorb the cost of the rebuild. I think thats where assistance from the federal government could be very helpful to the community. Thank you. Again are there additional steps you would like to see congress to support longterm Recovery Efforts in hawaii. This is not my area of expertise. I apologize i cannot answer specifically about the specific needs. We know there are opportunities for federal undine and we have a team of people looking at that not just at our company but many other organizations to ensure that we look at all opportunities to support the rtrecovery and rebuild of maui. Also that question is directed onto directed. Are there additional steps you would like to see congress to support longterm Recovery Efforts in hawaii . Was certainly i think we always appreciate what the federal government can help us with. And in this particular disaster and other Natural Disasters that we have. Weve always had a Good Relationship with the federal government and in my world i would like to keep it that way. But certainly is not only specific to hawaii i think all of our states that we represent and where we can get Additional Resources or assistance from the federal government we would certainly appreciate that. I will have other questions i will get to and to respond in writing. Many of us in congresss are committed to the recovery and willing to do anything get everything that we can to support the effort. Congress must pass the supplemental preparation request that includes 16 billion to prevent Disaster Relief funds which is currently supporting the Recovery Efforts on maui from running dry. I look forward to hearing from my colleagues on the hawaii delegation and representative you all have my heartfelt condolences we are with you and your community experiencing and were totally committed to making a difference on your behalf. With that mr. Chair i yield back. We now recognize mr. Duncan who joined us in sharing the subcommittee upstairs and we appreciate you coming to be a part of the subcommittee as well i yield to you five minutes for your questions. The hearing upstairs on greater reliability and affordability. A lot of things we talk about first off i want to say our hearts and thoughts and prayers are with the folks in maui. I appreciated our conversation yesterday. I could see the pain in your face of what your fellow citizens there are enduring. I want you to know sincerely we will continue to do all that we can and continue to lift you up in our thoughts and prayers. I would submit a record from the energy title hawaii invest in Renewable Energy than wildfire prevention. For the record. I will take that up at the meeting according to her protocols. Thank you for taking the time to be here. Its a t long trip. , wanter come to fruition . This was many years ago. We have been looking on a puzzle proposal for lng infrastructure in hawaii to import its into hawaii. That was part of a bridge strategy that we had to get to our renewable goals. To lower cost to our customers while we transition to renewables and lower the carbon footprint. We are in the process of proposing those plans the governor of the state of hawaii at that time had indicated that path forward was not appropriate for hawaii. Theul focus and the investment should be on desmet at the time i dont think its one 100 renewables but the focus should be on achieving the renewables goals and putting the investment there. Your capacity comes from you are using some so i understand it proactive so i can repeat that . The dispatch will generation comes from an oil plant and you are using biodiesel i appreciate that but for the record they do have a generation that is dispatch a bowl to supplement the renewables but how would you assess natural gas affect the availability of the the afforday of electricity in the overall level . That assessment was done many years ago. I cannot recall now what the impact was. We had determined at that time it could significantly reduce the cost of electricity in hawaii if we were able to implement at that time. And with sufficient time for what we were proposing it shall only reach the achievable goals the investment was worth it and could amortize itself over that period of time to provide that longterm benefit to customers. Thank you for that. For the record i would just say clean burning u. S. Produced natural gas has helped the United States lower its Carbon Emissions reducing the impacts of this fire of the cost of electricity and overall reliability of Hawaiian Electric grid change Public Opinion on the construction of lng facility . Is hard for me too say and hawaii. With not talk to the elegy for many years in hawaii. You think that conversation will come back up now . It has not been hawaii is very focused on achieving our current statute upon her renewables. As we implement our renewables on the agenda here we are achieving projects. For example solar plus storage that went into the ground last year was at 9 cents per kilowatt hour. W the third of the cost for fossil fuel generation. We are continuing to pursue that route. Broths are pursuing farm generation which you believe is needed to fill the gap of solar and wind and storage. And other Renewable Resources we are implementing birth. Is a side clustered aside of my prepared questions here. With the volcanic activity in the Hawaiian Islands is thermal something thats even looked at . Is what . Yes baby of geothermal on the big island of hawaii. That is a very important resource and a firm resource that we believe is critical to the future of hawaii. Its also challenging to get that resource. I love to investigate that nvwar but went last one last question maui Public Utilities upstairs right now were having hearing on the grid operators about the challenges of reliability on the grid due to state policies and how there has to be a refocus on Core Missions and grid operator states regulators unreliability. In a similar way given the clear shortcomings identified Vegetation Management and submitted response have to go back and reexamine how it whether state policies to drive Energy Resources to be one of us that renewable may affected priorities your offices utility away from focusing on resilience and managing risk including mitigation virus. Without a question to me . Yes. Because of those cost savings that i talked about between the example i gave with solar plus storage versus the cost of fossil fuels, oil that we have been talking about that cost savings given the high rates that we havent hawaii we can take that cost savings and invest that in our grid. So does the strategy we have been employing over the past many years but. Thank you so much im way over time thank you, mr. Chairman progressive judgment yields back. I do not see any other members wishing to ask questions at this time i like to thank our witnesses again for being here today but pursuant to Committee Roles or mind membership 10 Business Days to submit additional questions for the record without also include all of the things we asked about you need to get back to us on thats fairly standard i asked the witnesses you all submit your responses to those questions and followups within 10 Business Days of receipt of those questions. That being said this concludes a first panel we went out transition to the second panel but thank you very much for today. Ere [background noises] what it would take a five minute recess we will come back. I rate the committee will come back to order. Everybody is in their seats . Thank you for testifying before the committee today. Our witness is representative ed case and jill tokuda of the Second District representative case you are now recognized five minutes. Think it mr. Chair Ranking Member or members of the subcommittee good morning. Hello hawk. First of all, for all the people of hawaii thank you so much for your expressions of f concern ad for your focus in this hearing. I appear before you today is full but representative for the second congressional which is mauid and one, who like so many run our country and our a world feel a personal sense of loss. But most importantly i appear before you as one with my colleagues are two representatives from hawaii. In hawaii we dont think about district lines districts dont matter and hawaii. Maui and lahaina are part of all of hawaii this incredible tragedy was and is a tragedy for west maui, for maui. It is a deeply felt tragedy for all of our and we are all. Has been a constant on maui devoted to it mauis needs since the early days of this tragedy, will describe you a little bit more personal detail what happened but what the situation is onhe the ground. Well relay some very personal stories i hope drive home the point of the true situation to whatour path must be going forw. And as you consider the testimony today and her own future path here in congress i would like to leave you with about three thoughts on an overview. First of all i agree converses role and involvement is critical. In a disaster such as this only our federal government can muster the resources and the energy and the scope of critical assistance that is going to be necessary to truly address a tragedy of this nature. And by focusing the attention and concern of congress on that maui disaster you highlight the critical needser here and i thik you also highlight the path forward in terms of making sure this does not happen in other communities throughout our country. Because each tragedy must offer lessons to be understood and learned. Otherwise it simply is going to be repeated in the lives that we have lost, the community we have lost will be just respected. As this can offer lessons hawaii and those who have been lost can offer something to the rest of our country and the world. And so your focus here is really critical and your questions have been relevant and critical and i thank you for them. Second, the full focus of our collective efforts must remain on maui. We are only 51 days after a very sudden and terrible tragedy. I think it is important to understand the reality of maui and hawaii today. Of course we have almost 100 confirmed dead we simply have not identified the remains of many and we have many that are still missing grid that effort mustt continue. We have a community of some 12000 which is fully displaced 7800 hotel rooms. Full efforts of locating difficult to locate interim housing. We have a year plus debris removal project that has only just begun. We have businesses that are devastated and only now are facing the reality of whether and how to survive. We have the full resources of our federal, state, county governments. The community and our congressional delegation all focus on the necessary efforts that are required for maui today. We have as you know at least three investigations full investigations independent investigations and we all know we have a number of lawsuits that have already been filed. These are all fact finding exercise that in time will bring out answers to many of the questions is committee have asked. All of this is where our efforts should remain for now. All of which is to say while we in congress have a very Critical Role and i agree with you it is not too early to assess questions. We should not disrupt what were doing today was necessary to be done for maui. So there will be a time for congress to delve more deeply into exactly what happened and to learn the lessons of maui when some stability has been restored it. Third, how congress can best help now today . First of all we ask you and encourage you to visit maui. To see and feel for your self this tragedy. This is something we welcome the president. The walk of the speaker. We welcome many of our colleague stefan can replace the sense of understanding to do that. And second, we ask we all collectively fund the Disaster Relief fund by the federal Emergency Management agency which is running dangerously dealt load now. These are two concrete areas we can help maui and all of this right now. But for maui for hawaii my deepest appreciation for your constructive effort today. For this hearing we completely stand ready to work with you. Not only for maui but the rest of our country to make sure lessons are learned. Thank you again. Thank you very much for your comments but recognize representative jill tokuda for her statement regards chair,er Ranking Member kasser, and members of the subcommittee. The hollow for your outpouring of support and commitment to our people. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to testify about the wildfires ofin devastated. I joined our representative in inviting you to come truly see and experience whats happened in our community but more important work with us to rebuildo and recover from the devastation for like all of you i want answers. Not a day has gone by since he fires i do not ask myself questions how did this happen . What could have been done differently . How do we make sure this never happens again . How do we keep our people, our family safe . What now . Why . Why . That is the hardest question. Ive also been asked many questions myself when can i go home . Is the air it safe to breathe . How will i pay my mortgage . Who can help me rebuild my business . How do i tell my students their friend isnt coming back . One question sticks as they came shortly after the fire. A woman approached me and asked me if i could please help her find her husband. They had gone to all the shelters, the hospitals, and theyd given the dna sample what should she do now . She showed me a picture of her husband burned out truck on the side of the road andke thats where the back door was w open could h he have escaped . Where is he . I could not answer her questions that debris at all i could do was hold her hand, my arm around her and try to comfort her. In the weeks that followed i look for her husbands name on every single list. First it was on the list of the missing for a few weeks ago identified among the dead. I share this with you because there are so many questions about this tragedy that must be answered. D. People want answers. People want accountability. Our people are still grieving. They are frustrated, they are grappling with the new reality. They are justifiably a mad this had happened to them. Far too many lives were lost in our very tight knit community. Some are still waiting anxiously of news of their loved ones at while they want some kind of resolution they fear that knock on the door. While it has been almost two months most stillav have not sen the remains of their home with the first residents being allowed back into the property just this week. They question we need to be focused on right now is how do we keep the help coming to maui . We are two days away from a shutdown. Our people gone through enough. The wheels of government must continue to turn as work to provide the support and the resources they so desperately need to focus on recovery and rebuilding. Last week in house transportation infrastructure subcommittee hearing, one of our colleague suggested the maui fires were the result of hawaiis pursuit of Renewable Energy. He then insinuated to the administrator the federal government should not support Recovery Efforts for disasters and states that pursuit net zero policies. Unfortunatelys comments betrayed not only a lack of understanding of hawaiis unique Energy Infrastructure a willingness to exploit our pain and tragedy for political gain. We already knew before the disaster is lahaina is not unique among rural and remote communities across our country. That is not received enough investment ever ensuring access to services is a constant struggle. This tragedy iss highlighted the disparities that exist in energy, telecommunication, transportation, and Water Infrastructure for a role committees lack access to health care, Mental Health services, Emergency Services and more. The investments we have made to the Infrastructure Investment and jobsuc act on Inflation Reduction Act must be but a first step. We understand the urgent need to do more. The path ahead for maui will be longh and difficult. It will take years if not generations to recover from this disaster. Homes, schools, businesses will be rebuilt. The scar of the trauma on our people come on our families will take much much longer to heal. I stressed local, State Government entities investigate the cause of the maui wildfire the Emergency Response across all levels of government we must not forget the Human Element of this tragedy. Behind that whirlwind of investigation and litigation that have emerged from this disaster, as a Community Still healing and fighting every day to recover and rebuild. Historic then entry has become a symbol of hope we must never forget the people of lahaina are her roots. There is no lahaina without the voice, the vision, of her people. Like you and i our people questions too. We all deserve answers. Right now the most important question must be how do we continue to keep the help coming to maui . My hollow for allowing myself and congressman case to testify before this committee. We will continue to count on your support and commitment in the weeks, months, years to come with all of you as part of art now extended family i hope our people can and will continue to stay maui strong. I yield back. I think the gentle lady for her comments. And appreciate each of you all being here. And know this subcommittee will try to find answers. And while doing so we wont not forget the Human Factors involved as t well. I would. Thank you representative, i heard you loud and clear on behalf of the democratic site of the aisle again our sympathies are with you. I think we can best show our sympathies by acting. As you said getting help get answers. Making sure the recovery a continues. The Disaster Relief Recovery Fund is fully funded and then taking the Lessons Learned to help prevent this from ever happening anywhere else. I did want to offer this is the one Year Anniversary of Hurricane Ian but hit southwest florida 150 people died, over 50 drowned because of a storms search. They are still recovering to as people in puerto rico are purchase a couple months ago hurricane adele you hit but in my area i still have people who are flooded out have all of their belongings and pods out on the streets. What caught my attention this morning on the front page of my hometown newspaper the Tampa Bay Times this is fema has positive florida aided. As the Ranking Member said we cannot afford the shutdown. This story says that it is disruptive longer term recovery projects already without going into the shutdown thats coming this weekend. Its what fema has had to do is disruptive longer term recovery projects in florida, puertohi ro and other communities that bypass calamities, illustrating how republicanled standoff in congress could unleash real hardship in americans lives parts impacting the reconstruction of the grid in puerto rico says the department of economic and commerce in puerto rico. To prevent interruption of federal Disaster Response biden urged lawmakers last month to restock femas coffers as part of a shortterm deal to fund the government improve additional roughly 16 billion in supplemental aid for that money is meant to augment federal Recovery Efforts around the wildfires it recently ravaged maui. The flooding in the summer in vermont for the aftermath of hurricane adele you and so far congress has failed to act and insaid republicans led by House Speaker mccarthy have helped up from the government. This is crazy. This is selfinflicted. This is not how a country as great as United States of america should be acting. This is a gift to our adversaries. I urged my republican colleagues because i heard your very sincere sentiment you are here to help support the people of maui. Most important thing to do within our power right now as these investigations are going to be ongoing for months for the most important thing is to ensure the people on the ground there can continue to help. We talked yesterday i would like to ask a question about whats going on . Ex parte protocol programs i would encourage everyone to talk to about the extensive recovery in the missions on the ground. I mentioned at the beginning of the hearing on my way out to the room we were in honolulu on the way back the United States army gave us a briefing of the recovery. These people are heroes. They step back from National Security mission to focus on the recovery of their neighbors in maui. These are very difficult assignments under very difficult conditions. Lets not throw a wrench into the recovery for the people in maui. Lets not aggravate in a pile on their paying for this can be avoided and i encourage all to take that to heart and put people over politics right now people look too washington and o really think about the people all across. America correct thik certainlywelcome the democrat ve can get republicanled measures ato keep the government open. Next mr. Chairman . Ask her to bring this to a conclusion. I g would ask nose consent to insert in the record documents acquittal in without objection that we the order. Mr. Chairman im not asking a question, i like a comment. I know i made a very brief comment. I will be brief progress weve got a very long although heartfelt response. I dont know this is a time we should be debating. I just wanted to say if i could i will be like a minute too. He sense of comedy not comedy getting along i dont wreck as a gentleman to make a brief comment. Thank you. Im not going to repeat about the shutdown we all know thats not a good thing for whats happening in hawaii in terms of the recovery. I know representative also mentioned the idea of some kind of ideological test for recovery. If you are looking to have one 100 renewable funds should not be going to hawaii. We have heard this also in my case in the aftermath of sandy there were those making outrageous comments about how we should not help the northeaster. I have been here long enough to know whenever theres a Natural Disaster we help everybody its isnot democrat comments not republican its not ideological, it shouldnt be. I am glad you mentioned that but i do think we should all say there should never be a litmus test is important to say that as well. This test in this case seems to be linked to Climate Change the bottom line is everything i see is the dry vegetation was a major factor. We cant not only havemp a ideological test but we also need to recognize one of the causes here in the long term is Climate Change and that needs to be addressed as well progress and thank the gentleman for his brief comment. Thank you. All that being said without c objection the committee is adjourned. [background noises] [background noises] [background noises] monday watch cspan series in partnership with a library of converse. Books that shaped america will feature narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass written in 1845 it was the first of three autobiographies by Frederick Douglass deeply personal sometimes graphic language he describes his childhood years on the Eastern Shore of maryland. His time as a slave in baltimore and his escape north in 1838. The book was widely sold is said to have highly influence the cause of abolition produced during an author will be a guest on a program to discuss the book. 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