Get informed straight from the source. On cspan, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. From the Nations Capital to wherever you are. Because the opinion that matters the most is your own. This is what democracy looks like. Cspan, powered by cable. [inaudible conversations] we want to take this moment to welcome everyone to Trinity United Church of christ here in chicago, illinois. We are a church that believes that we are called to be in the heart of this community ever seeking the communitys heart, and our motto is that we are black and christian, we dont think theres any contradiction rooting yourself in your culture and also celebrating the christ whom we serve. Were delighted youre here for our book notes, we had a wonderful worship experience today to Worship Services with a magnificent preacher who is to my left none other than reverend dr. Raphael warnock who is senator raphael warnock. [applause], who is the first africanamerican senator from the state of georgia. He has two publications, one being a way out of no way. Which is a memoir of his experience from savannah all the way to the senate. And a wonderful Childrens Book he read to a small group of children immediately following Worship Service today. We recorded that reading that we hope that these young people will be able to look back and say that they have the first africanamerican senator from georgia to read a Childrens Book to them. And that book is a wonderful story that shares the experience of dr. Warnock as a child all the way up to being sworn in as senator. And its get ready, put your shoes on. Put your shoes on. Put your shoes on and get ready. Put your shoes on and get ready and its some beautiful art, wonderful story. So we are delighted that youre with us. Were going to have a word of prayer and then begin our conversation. We do this book note series and weve been doing it throughout the pandemic talking to different authors and having conversation abouts their work and its exploded here at trinity where we thought wed have a few book nerds to watch and sometimes we get over a thousand people who watch live for the book notes conversation. Lets have a word of prayer and then begin our conversation. Gracious and most merciful god in whom we live, have our being, we are grateful for this moment and grateful for this time in history. May you empower us that we may be able to link, love, and justice together. In all of the work that we do. May your spirit rest, may it rule, may it abide that we may continue to walk the path thats been laid for us. We thank you, we love you, and we magnify your name. The people of god who love god may collectively say. Amen. Amen. And dr. Warnock. Dr. Warnock. Hello Trinity Church of christ. Its great to be here with my friend and dear mother, dr. Otis moss iii your pastor and someone ive known since we were teenagers at Morehouse College and great to be here. Welcome to the folks watching us jn line. I am excited to be here to talk about dr. Mosss latest book, dancing in the darkness. Dancing in the darkness, spiritual lessons for thriving through turbulent times. Thats rich, theres a lot even in the title. Dancing in the darkness, spiritual lessons for thriving through turbulent times. I think that that is something, those are lessons that all of us could use at a time like this. So im going to start and with the most basic question. What motivated you . What drove you to write this particular book, to frame it in this particular way . You preach every sunday and you also write, but tell us about the inspiration behind dancing in the darkness. I appreciate you asking that question. I realized several years ago that there was truly a spiritual edge in our country, that people are attempting to scratch in a variety of ways. Some through social media, others thinking that, i had a, if i have enough funds, the market will be able to scratch that itch, but we still find that were spiritually anemic and theres a necessity for us to go back to the values that enrichen us, that allow us to flourish as human beings, and the two main values really flowing in the book, that haunt the book, are the values of love and justice. And dr. Martin luther king, jr. And Howard Thurmon serve as sages for talking about those values. And so youre driven by that, but tell me a little bit more about what is it that youre seeing as a pastor on the ground . What are the things that you carry in your bones as you engage people, everyday people as they make their way through their everyday struggles. How has that inspired this, this preaching in a different way . The experience of trying to make sense of our trauma. The experience of trying to make sense of the sun going down in many ways for some in this democracy. People are trying to really make sense of what is happening in this world and we have been reaching for that which is physical in order to scratch this itch. But Howard Thurmon, dr. King, theres so much within the black spiritual tradition that speaks about how we deal with these issues. We both went to Morehouse College and at morehouse, i see another morehouse brother thats in the audience, they were always told to light a candle. Talking about the candle in the dark, and every morehouse student was told when you come in, that god places a crown on our heads that well spend the rest of our lives growing tall enough to wear and i hope the book teaches people to stretch, not that well wear the crown, but at least youll be taller after ingesting the values. You do the kind of work at ebenezer where youre calling people to stretch and now, as senator, you are making these demands. You are lighting candles and as a matter of fact, youre on the Agricultural Committee and youve done something really interesting that i think that people should know. Well, i do a lot of work on agriculture committee. Im proud of being on that committee. Agriculture is the largest business still in georgia. And weve done many things from getting helping Georgia Farmers getting their products to market with trade barriers. We did 6 billion of debt relief for farmers who are on the margins. [applause] its one of the reasons i tolerate politics. Im an elected official, but im not in love this politics. Im in love with change and i tolerate politics because every now and then youre able to do something amazing like 6 billion of debt relief for farmers. And much of this a Long Time Coming and also thisyear. Every five years you do the farm bill and links farmers and agri business, and programs like temporary aid for needy families. Those programs that weve used to give people basic Food Assistance and i was saying in worship, i guess youre referring to. In my sermon when i went i got arrested and similar to at Morehouse College, i got arrested, and what they were going to do, cut needed nutrition and this year, six years later i get to write the farm bill. Soso im struck by this idea that you put forward of dancing in the darkness, underscore dancing. Theres no question that theres darkness and you could elaborate if you cared to, but i think we all have a sense of the darkness. Of course, Howard Thurmon talks about the luminous darkness, the luminous darkness. Thats right. But you didnt say negotiate the darkness. You didnt say how to grope your way through the darkness. You know, how not to be afraid of the dark, ive got two little kids, but you said dancing in the darkness. Whats at stake in that metaphor of literally dancing in the darkness . To first bring you to how that idea came about, it starts in 2008. Our church was going through a challenging moment when an individual by the name of senator barack obama was running for president. I had just become pastor here at trinity. Now, i remember being in balis in hyde park working out and i was on the treadmill and i was on the treadmill doing my warmdown and someone tapped me on the shoulder and said, hey, rev, is that your church. And i looked up sean hannity was going off about trinity and i said ive got to go. There began walking through the gauntlet. 40 news outlets showed up to our church every single sunday putting microphones in peoples face, looking for some type of quote because they had parsed a portion of my predecessors sermon, dr. Jeremiah wright, jr. , a very good sermon, i might add, absolutely. [applause] they were trying to use that sound bite because many people had never been in a black church and dont know anything about the black Church Tradition or prophetic preaching. And that started the gauntlet. And because of the news footage and the attention, we then started getting death threats. Dr. Wright and myself and the church and some people here remember that we had to have bomb sniffing dogs show up every single sunday to make sure that the sanctuary is safe. And so after getting these letters, and i read some of the letters, i should not have read some of the letters to be honest and i want to thank decon wilfred bentley, he said, let me have that, youre not going to read anymore. And anytime i ran up to someone working out and if someone coming my way, is this it . Is this the person from the letter . So one night, didnt sleep very much for about a year and we heard something in the house and monica tapped me, youve got to go check that out and i said, yeah, babe, let me go do that. I got up and i grabbed my rod and my staff that comforts me. [laughter] and that rod and staff was made in louieville, it was a Louisville Slugger and i was looking around the house where was this noise coming from, what was going on and then i heard the noise again. The noise was coming from my daughters bedroom and mikaela was about five years old and i go into the bedroom and mikaela is in the middle of her room and shes dancing, spinning around and shes saying, look, daddy, im dancing. Now, its 3 a. M. , i have to preach at trinity in several hours, and so, i got that lower register dad talk, baby, you need to go to bed right now. She says, look, daddy, im dancing and pig tails are hitting and what not and then the spirit said, stop, look at her. Shes dancing in the darkness. The darkness is around her, but its not in her. When are you going to learn how to dance. And at that moment, i trashed my sermon i was supposed to preach and started writing notes and i stepped into the pulpit on that sunday and i talked about the fact that we must learn how to dance in the dark and when we reclaim our dance, that dance of love, that dance of compassion, the dance of justice, then we can transform in the words of wb deboise, yet to be United States much america. And i believe that people of africanamerican descent weve learned to distance in the dark of a country that didnt recognize us, and dancing. Frederick douglas when talks with july 4th, thats dancing, and ida b. Wells, these are dance partners, our ancestors that we must learn how to navigate these moments that we think are dark, but the beautiful thing about darkness is not that the sun has forsaken you, it just means that the earth has turned, and if you keep dancing, eventually your morning will become dancing, but your joy will come in the morning because the sun hasnt left, its still there, its just that the earth decided to turn in a different direction. [applause] thats why i listen every sunday. Powerful, dancing in the darkness. And that that darkness. You were literally living through it in the moment. And were inspired by your daughter and then that you you described something going on in country at that time and your church at the center of it but. Then layered on top of that are the episodes of trauma that we all know. Individu that we all know individually. So theg church is going through what its, going through but yu still have members who are dealing with whatever they were dealing with in their everyday lives the person who just got a scary diagnosis, person whos trying to understand how to reconcile with their child or the reverse. All ofhe these concerns and spirituality that speaks to both, both the individual and the social, that deals with the slavery of sin and the sin of slavery. I think that has been part of the genius of the black church experience at its best, not that i will always do that, right, but the evangelical and liberationists tendencies both i see both of those things standing up in your work, which is itself a a kind of dance between, between a kind of personal piety and the fight for justice, the struggle and the song as i started to talk about this morning. And its a particular kind of dance, wouldnt you say . Youve talked about living in a postsold world and some of your other publications. And you are somebody who in your preaching and in your writing often engages the arts and music and tradition. You understand that gospel and jazz and the blues and the spirituals all come from the same root, the anguish ruminations of the subjugated people speaking to god in their own voice. So the dance, if you will, is syncopated, right . Can you Say Something about that . Like jazz, like its on the upbeat rather than the downbeat here its speeders for beautiful think about our tradition, beautiful thing about black spirituality is that we embrace the existential but we keep looking at the eschatological. We are blues and gospel at the same time. And the beautiful thing about people to make the claim oh, i just listen to gospel music on that gospel musicth is structurd on this pentatonic scale, this african skill. So you cant have gospel music unless you know blues cords. So in other words, you can have resurrection speeders say it again for the sanctified folks applausemac. You cant have gospel music unless you have blues cords. So in order to sing gospel, you got to know the blues cords. So in other words, you got to know the anguish and the pain in order to get to the celebration of resurrection. But in a modern society we want to cast aside the blue notes and only what to do resurrection celebration here and if that happened speeders are you talk about prosperity preaching . Prosperity preaching is problematic because it is, its not christianity pick it is capitalism with ecclesiastical garments. And we have witnessed so much of this market centeredness on our tradition is like is that a just tradition brother bovard is here doing research on the blues and whatnot but jazz teaches america about democracy before america knew what democracy was all about. The fact that jazz is born in new orleans first of all, this space where you have Indigenous People in america along with spanish, along with french and along with people of african descent but dont forget that, a good portion of black people in new orleans wereac free blacks from haiti. So they understood this idea of freedom and then they come and they, in fact, new orleans with that. So the congo square was the space where on sunday because there were so many people who were catholic, send as you had off, they can hear all these different rhythms and all these different rhythms come together and then jazz is something that know what the music had done in history. It takes whatnot supposed to play together and they played together. So you have a saxophone, that is for the marching band, within it plays with the piano which is european classical. In the piano then plays with a trap drums that but instead of using a symbol european syncopated parking rhythm, uses a pentatonic andnd also polly rhythms in the process. Then you have a base but youre supposedly with the bullet solicits let me play with my fingers. Andve everybody has the right to solo. In other words, i can bring my own cultural narrative to the table, bring my own experience to the table and i can solo. But the saxophone never tells of the piano you have to sound like me. And the piano doesnt tell the drum you have to sound like me. And the base doesnt tell the p. M. You have to sound like me. Everybody gets a chance to sink their song as you said this morning in a unique way and when america learns how to operate with a jazz democratic effort, thats when in the words of john culturing will see a love supreme. [applause] all right. Thats good stuff, right . Get the book, dancing in the dark. Spiritual lessons are thriving in turbulent times. Good stuff. This dancing and this music you talked about is also improvisational. Each of the instruments, for each plate in their own way but they dont go off anywhere. There are variations on a theme so there is a theme in the improvisations are variations on the theme and theres a kind of style and a friendly rivalry sometimesme going on and a good jazz musician like a good preacher they might have a manuscript but theyre going to see each timent with the spirits going to bring. That might be a little different each diaper how are we doing in around the question of improvisation in this moment . The church in particular. I think the church is struggling with improvisation because its looking to be a symphony directed by people who do not necessarily care for the folks who were in the church. The symphony has a director and says play justli like me. But when we move to that jazz narrative, we begin to look inwardly. Would begin to draw from our tradition. I would use example thatld Prosperity Ministry in these framings of its about the dollar and thats how you will be set free. Thats kind of symbiotic in the way that a director is play, or to say that ministry must be sold individualistic. We dont talkn about stuff that goes on in the world that we were just going to talk about just me, myself, and i. There is a phrase called i am blessed and highly favored, thea people like to say nothing wrong with the phrase but the idea that blessing within the framework and blessing within the black church was really cant be blessed until other people are blessed in the process. That theres a connectivity to the idea of blessing. But our country is struggling with this on multiple levels. So when we add to the curriculum black history, the conductors that you cant do that because that is something that is not necessarily patriotic. As some states have said you cant have ap africanAmerican History. No Educational Value. Which is amazing you could have ap italian history, ap japanese history, ap french history, but theres no education or Educational Value to the labor engineers that help build this country. Thats problematic there spare anyone who says it needs an Education Spirit absolutely. Absolutely. [applause] but yeah, this this idea of improvization struck by that because were on the other side of a pan. Well, were still going through a pandemic and the church is being forced to rethink how it presents all familiar themes. Tell me about love and justice. In the book you talk a lot about love and justice and you insist that we have to have them both. You cant have one without the other. So the first chapter is linking love and justice, which are two important values, values that we need not only personally also in the civic arena. If we would make our policies rooted in love and justice we would have different policies. So in america we have this sentimental love, you know, love without justice is sentimentality. Justice without love becomes legalism or brutality but when you marry love and justice, they walk down the aisle and they eventually have two children. One name, liberation, other name transformation when they get together. But imagine when we think through policies on love and justice, thats what the Poor Peoples Campaign was about. That is what the the pulpit of ebenezer has been about linked in love and justice. You cant disengage. And that is what the minister of jesus was about meaning i redeem you this idea of redemption over retribution then we have a retribution system when it comes to incar isolation not a redemption system, not a development system, not an education system. We have a pure punishment, vengeance, love and justice linked together raises the question what will our society be and what do we leave for children whove not been born. What are the spiritual drag that we need to slay in this moment . You talk about that in the book, cynicism the idea that i have no power, that im not able to change what is going on in the world. This chapter on slaying dragons and another chapter that i deal with called reworking your origin stories that talks about the fact that youve got to know your origin. And i use these im a comic book person im a comic book geek. I admit it. I admitted that the reason we love heroes, the reason we love these stories, its marvel. Or whether reading about storm or luke cage or whatever it may be. We love these stories of these, but no hero can. Be a hero or a hero until they know their origin story and they make a decision they make a decision whether on which path that theyre going to flow and the way in which we slay our dragon is is we come to embrace who we are. As you said this morning, we must know we are we must know who god is. We must know what god has done. As you said, your sermon this morning and the same thing goes us individually. When you know who you are and you make that decision, ill give you a prime a more personal example. Ive told the story many times over and over again about the suicide of. My sister, my sister, daphne was shes the brilliant person in our family. And she was a graduate of Spelman College also a graduate of kent state university. She taught students who were who had learning differences and were challenged in their growth and development. And shes the one that introduced me to Zora Neale Hurston and James Baldwin and those my those are my childrens stories that she would read those stories to me for years. I was afraid of that story. I didnt want to share that story. Nor could i say anything id say, oh yeah, my sister had a terminal illness or something of that nature. But the moment that i reworked my origin story that i realized that i had a brilliant, wonderful sister who, had a mental illness, who had given me an incredible and could speak about it. Shame. I found out that there was a community of people who had the same experience and we were empowered in sharing that story. America has a problem sharing the truth of, its history, the moment we can share, the truth of our history is the moment we work, our origin story and we can see better in the future. But as long as we hide and shame cant teach black history, cant teach indigenous history, cant talk about this, then we will continue down the same path that is destructive in this nation. Wonderful. Im deeply moved, by the way, in which you link your own story, your own pain, connect to daphne and what she provides. That beautiful soul sickness and illness and something i talk about a lot. And try to push forward as a pastor. You know, i Council Members of my church and. One on one members came to me and she was really wrestling with depression i said im praying about it, pastor. I said, well, weve got pray, but i also need you to come with me and get some other help and were going to pray with the doctors. Yes. Because if you had if if you if you had a heart condition. Or you know or something, we we we pray and and we tell you, go to the doctor. Right. We would treat heart or the liver or whatever it is, like an organ. Well, the brain is an organ. Um, the brain is an organ. And so sometimes im counseling, sometimes a medication is important a chemical imbalance is a chemical. Doesnt matter with organ, it is chemical imbalance. And then theres a spirituality undergirding that. But im also moving a move, by the way, in which youre connecting that piece, the individual piece, to larger American Family story. And youre right, all families and we this as pastors, all families have a complicated story. Yours to write. And the story is always more complicated than the picture we present. You coming the aisle on sunday morning exactly 20 minutes after worship starts so people can your beautiful family everything is intact red bottomed shoes place the children look so perfect and wellbehaved and we know the truth because theyre in our sunday and our childrens church. Yeah, we know all about little angels. And if you really want to know the real familys story, you got to go to the family. Come on, come on. And youll get some it. But not in the first 15 minutes or even the first hour. Just wait you got to wait. Sometimes tell a few people have had communion. Thats right. Thats right right. And then youll get some piece of the family story and what help. But at the end of the day, you know, after somebodys got cussed out or. What do we do, all hug each other. I love family. Ill see ya next year. Maybe its just my family. You dont get to pick your family, your families, your family. Theyre complicated it, but its still your family and totally the American Familys story. Like the rest of our familys stories. Thats right. Is. But we are all we go . Thats right. And i mean i mean i mean i mean if of all we ready to say that to me we all we got where are we going . Where are we going . And i mean at on a larger scale, beyond just our country, we are all we got an if spirituality didnt help us to deal with that. Then what in the world are we . But part of what weve got to do is Something Else you tell us in the book weve got a conflict, the chaos. Yeah, yeah. Consecrate the chaos that that thats very provocative right. Then that make you to come closer and i want to hear to to tell us about consecrating the you know that that particular chapter has has received kind of an interesting buzz from a lot of people when they ask about this consecrating consecrating chaos. I really love that chapter. And looking at the idea that spiritually we will experience chaos. You cant get rid of it, its going to happen. And for those who who operate out of more of a scientific and and secular framework, chaos is, a part of the cosmos you cant get rid chaos but you can consecrated you can name it and you can employ it for your particular so so how do we how we concentrate consecrate create chaos. Anyone who sails knows how to deal with chaos because a sailor. Im not talking about the motorboat. Boats and the google yachts that im about people who sail. In other words, they have to harness the wind and deal with the waves and undertow at the same time, they have to build a boat that a rudder and a keel to balance. But then they also have have a sail that catches wind they cant control which way the wind is going to go. They can move the sail to catch the wind. And heres the beautiful thing about people who sail. They can never sail in a Straight Line they have to tack left and right, left and right to get to their destination and one of the things that i think that black people have done is that we have built the spiritual sails boats, whether youre talking about abolition or the jim crow period, but black lives matter. They built a digital sail in order deal with the chaos that was happening in our community in order to consecrated and to educate people at a higher level. And we have to teach this that chaos is going to come and we cannot live from the pulpit and say just name it in clay it in the chaos will disappear chaos is going to be a part question is how will we it and we have power. I keep thinking about i love stories i traffic in stories i Frederick Douglass i mean frederick is the man thats the bad brother. Monica says she just loves picture. She thinks hes so handsome. Shes like a back in. The day i would have been looking at frederick, you know. Hes handsome. Hes handsome. Hes happy. You know, hes the most photographed human being in the 19th century because he understood the technology that we know taking but but but Frederick Douglass did something fascinating to me is that he is in the chaos of enslavement he was you can read youre not supposed to read when he was living in baltimore, maryland, he used to keep pieces bread in his back pocket. And when he would come, an irish young man, you know, someone, ten or 12, he said, ill give you some bread if you tell me that word. And so he taught himself how to read by passing bread. Then another experience of this chaos with Frederick Douglass is when he is beaten by an overseer and he runs away, he runs into the woods, but he encounters a prophet slash priest slash medicine man who then tells him that, you know, you know, a child of god. Im going give you some right here. You wear this over on the left side and you go back and you tell that overseer you are a child of god and you went back and told him he beat them for hours and said, im a child of god dont you ever beat me again . Which an incredible thing for this enslaved african to say that i am a human being. And he continues on with moments every time that there was a moment of chaos. He im going to employ for my good if there is something that explodes gnashing ailey im going to use it to community create the suffering of my people and douglass was a genius at dealing with issues of chaos and the black struggle over and over again, chaotic moments. And yet we come up with these times to be able to demonstrate how we can operate at a different level in this nation. Thats the black tradition. The black church its best, but black spirituality, meaning we got to go to church. Theres just some stuff thats in us that we can share with the world. If we are willing to drink from these reservoirs. Beautiful. So and going back to your earlier metaphor, and i saw reverend wood his head, he fails believe that now we had a preacher right here who sells hes got a lot of faith. So. That left, back, right cant go on a Straight Line attack. Left, right. Can you tell the congress we got attacked . Left, right. In order to overcome gridlock, order to move forward. All right. So, so you you also talked about your origin stories. And im remembering that in the book, you give a shout out to auburn avenue, sydney, auburn avenue. Thats sweet. Auburn in atlanta, georgia, where Ebenezer Baptist church sits. Tut tell us about almond avenue, an origin stories and consider creating chaos what you are the child of the beauty and the power of auburn avenue that that that before before you not only dr. And daddy king but William Holmes. John wesley dobbs Alonzo Herndon. Now these names may not mean anything and i deal with these traffic in these names and stories in the book. But let me give you an example. I learned this from from my father. If want to understand the power of auburn with this particular story imagine with me dr. King age 12 steps out of his house he steps out of his home and on one side of his home, on the side of the street where his home is, middle class homes, doctors lawyers, business owners. But on the other side, gunshot homes, know shotgun houses, shotgun houses on the other side, you have people who are domestics, people who are struggling. Then he turns and, begins to walk to Ebenezer Baptist church before gets to ebenezer. But on sweet auburn, he has to pass by the harbinger funeral home, which was owned by a black woman. The only funeral home owned by a black woman in in the of georgia at the time. So he was seeing someone breaking the ceiling of patriarchy before. He got to church then has to pass by or who go by. Maybe the atlanta daily world, which was the only daily black newspaper that lifted up lynching, but also lifted the power of hbcus. Then he passed by w. E. B. Thats word radio, a black Radio Station where was lifting up not only churches, but was giving the news that was happening across city. Then he passes by the Atlanta Life Insurance Company and he and the atlanta with the Alonzo Herndon. And this Insurance Company was the Insurance Company that the funding that Alonzo Herndon received from this was bailing people of jail during the freedom movement. Then he passes by the ame church with mother bethel. Mother bethel. But to bethel, where bishop Henry Mcneill turner was at one time pastor bishop Henry Mcneill before james cone said, black theology. He said, god is black before anybody else was even saying it. So he had this black theological framework and then he would pass by the alexander Life Insurance company, which was the company that ended up cars in montgomery when they had the montgomery boycott. They were doing carpooling. So the city of montgomery said, were going to stop these black folk from even driving together. And they would pull black people over and if you had more than one person in your car, you were trying to act like a taxi service. We will take you in and, arrest you and place you in jail. Well, it was alexander Insurance Company, tim alexander, morehouse, graduate who ends up insuring all of the station wagons in montgomery along with church busses. But he couldnt get insurance in the United States. He had to fly to england, to the lloyds of london to get insurance to insure all of cars. So black folk had before there was uber in alabama. And then he would pass by wheat street baptist church, where William Holmes borders was a pastor, and William Holmes borders was six foot five graduate of morehouse also, and had this booming voice. William holmes borders would many times close his message with poetry and poem youve all heard because reverend jesse has remixed this poem. Its called i am somebody. I somebody and langston hughes. I am a great poet. Im an aviator in bessie strong. Im a musician in. Duke ellington. I am somebody im an activist and out to be wells and at 12 years old, could you imagine a dr. King in the of a white street before he even goes to his own church and holmes borders was also played jesus in the atlanta city passion play. So as a child old he saw a six foot five black jesus with a deep voice. So he already had the framing. Then he goes to his own church, hear his father preach, then decides to get on a trolley that would take him to morehouse, but he had to get in the back of the trolley because of segregation. And my father says it this way. He says oh, his body went in the back, but his mind was in the front because he had so much some body mass in spirit, then he arrives on the campus of Morehouse College and a person by the name of dr. Benjamin elijah mays becomes his mentor before. You get to boston and crosier you got to stop by auburn avenue and see all of this quote somebody miss because his origins story was reworked from the origin story of White Supremacy see to the idea of black resilience. And that was the brilliance of what auburn avenue has given to generate an after generation. And you are the son of that tradition, being a senator, the first africanamerican senator from the state of georgia, because of the work of those great on auburn avenue. Thank you. I feel like dancing in the darkness. Lets hear from my friend, brother of a preacher. This brothers got too gifts. The reverend dr. Otis moss, the third. And lets give it up for. Our senator. None other than reverend dr. Raphael warnock. As a in the darkness. Now we have some questions, i believe, that are coming from the audience or online. Yes. So if you are still working on some questions, please, you this is a table that will start with the first question right. This question is coming. Kelly. Kelly, most people find fear, darkness. But from reading your book, it appears that you find power in darkness. How did you develop confidence to navigate what you see . Mm you know, thats a wonderful question, kelly. Is that. Growing up in my family. I learned from my mother and from my father the power of of darkness, meaning that you dont need to fear it. Its something that happens. The beautiful thing that the reason that we are able to see in this moment is that sight is based on electromagnet shock waves, what we consider to be the light. And whats fascinating is that human beings, we have limited sight that there are other creatures that god has created are able to see in the dark. And this is what helped me when i was a child one time i was scared of the dark and my dad, he just said, well, whatevers in the is in the dark, too. And i say, and i thought it, i said, thats true. So the stuff i see in the light is in the dark. Also. And, and i held to that idea that that he shared with me years ago. But the thing is, we develop our power in the dark. We were formed in. We have to spin nine months in the dark before we can come into the light. God to consecrate the darkness and bring something out of. It is in those moments when we are quiet, silent and recognize that we have to depend on else. Then our sight. Anyone can handle. When you can see it. But when you in a moment where you cant see it cant hear it and you just have to trust is when you deepen faith and thats the call is for us is to on to such values hold on to these spiritual ideas that deepen our faith, even though we cant it even, you know, we dont know when its going to happen. And believe that thats something that we all must learn, is to be able to how how to handle the darkness. Thank you. Next question is from ari. How do you build a movement of kind of love, kindness and unity at a time when people at the highest rung of power are trying to sow. Mm. Thats great. And i think that its really important to recognize pastor warnock did such a beautiful job when he talked about every valley being exalted and every mountain being brought low. He said thats good news. Said thats good news for some, but some these the people who are high up dont want to come down. We have to that the real power is not with those who think they have power. The real power is rooted in in the people. The real is those who deeply believe in values of love and of justice, compassion and reciprocity. Thats where the power is. When history is written, we will not lift up those who had whole lot of stocks, bonds. We will lift the names of those who deep in their heart, held on to particular values. They held on to these. And those are the ones history recognizes over time. So there are more of us. There are those at the top. There are more people who are deeply committed to change than there are one or two people who want to hold on to an old way of doing things. And the moment that we recognize how power we have transformed in comes. I love the way that Nelson Mandela said it. He said, the moment you realize powerful you are is when systems begin. Shake where. Think you know next. Question is from laliga. This is for warnock. Shes asking for those that feel that church and state should be separate or struggle with politics being discussed in the pulpit. Being a senator or a pastor. How do you find peace in two callings. I am a strong proponent of the separation of church and state. That is that is a part of our democratic that i now i dont just it im a strong proponent of it. I dont i dont i dont want to live a theocracy. Yeah. Yeah. I am im a christian and a christian preacher. But i dont want to live in a theocracy, not a islamic one, a jewish one or a christian one. Yeah. And i want to you know, luther has this idea, martin luther, about about the right kingdom and the left kingdom. I dont, i dont want to see the state encroach. On the church. Im and i dont want to see the church encroaching in a kind of religious triumphalism over Civil Society who say, well then so then at the same time, i dont embrace the idea that politics doesnt belong in the pulpit. Mm. Come on. Because what does politics . Theres a very simple definition of politics. Wherever maude and wherever three or more people are gathered there you have. Because youve got to navigate and negotiate interests. In fact, we have a two people together, sometimes between and wife in politics, but we have a people together. You definitely got politics. So heres you got to understand. I bring the values. Of my faith. Come on to my work in the senate. And i said this this the night i was elected, this last runoff. And ive said it time and time again that i believe that democracy is the political enactment of a spiritual idea. This notion that each of us has within ourselves, a spark of the divine that we were created in imago day, the image of god. And if we created in the image of god, then we ought to have a say in direction of our country and our destiny. It. And even if youre not given to that kind of religious language, i said that name. Thats fine. Our tent is big. Simply put it this way. We each have value. And if we all. We have value, we ought to have a voice and a way to have a voice is to a vote. So the values that i try frame every Public Policy issue are the values are resonant and resident in all of the great faith traditions and in the souls of people of moral courage who claim no particular faith tradition at all. Love, justice, compassion, empathy. Thats what i bring to the senate. And so whether issue is the expanded child tax, which we passed, we only did it for six months. Im trying get us to extend it because it would Child Poverty in our country. 40 to 50 of the issue is climate. Or the issue is. How do we hold at bay bad actors on the global scale while at the same time not giving in to militarism . As dr. King described as one of the triplet evils . Im always going to try to put these issues in a moral frame. I think theres no of transactional politicians in dc or anywhere else. Theres no shortage transactional politicians. And so if i was going to be another transactional politician, theres no need me doing this. There was no need. There was thered be no reason for Ebenezer Church to give its pastor the space to. Do this as it graciously has. If i was just going to show as another transactional politician what im striving for in tradition of king and thurmond and ella baker and Fannie Lou Hamer is to be transformed. But im. I see very clearly the danger. Of christian. Even and a kind of triumphalism some and a. Impulse to push your own the particularities and nuances of your faith tradition and inscribe in law. Were living through the scary side of that right now and. Its the reason why im prochoice in its all the religious. Is the religious people who say the most hateful things to me because im prochoice. I mean they they they have tried to show up really create all kinds of having that was the effort. It didnt work. Like they must not know whatever it is they they tried. I mean. But they tried it. Youre about trolling. My church went it them attacking us on social media, attacking all of our platforms, calling me a false prophet, hypocrite. And i think trying to stir up the members in the process. But they dont understand whoever these are, is and the sunday after sunday. But im clear out about this. The question on the issue of choice is whose decision is it . Whose decision is it . Right. And i happen to think that a patients is too small and cramped a space for a woman, her doctor and the United States government. I think thats too many people in the room room. But if you value life as i do it to me that youd be concerned about the criminal rates of Maternal Mortality in country, particularly in a state, georgia, and the fact that black women are 3 to 4 times more likely to die than white women, that theyre much more to die even when they have the same insurance and income. Now, thats something a government do something about. Thats why our government ought to stay in his lane and do the work. The government does and let the church do. The church does. Thank you. The question comes from robert. This question is for pastor moss in chapter three, redirecting your rage . You speak on Joseph Graves and youre called to pastor in tribute turbulent times. What you say to young people who are constantly losing friends. And how do at at a high rate . What you say to the young people. The and the trauma we experience collectively as a. Is a national and community. That we have to place as a priority if we are to see significant change in the city we share the story and im thankful to the tonda graves for allowing me to share the story of joseph, who was just a beloved young man here at trinity, and many remember how painful that moment was. And i want to say thank you to. Many of the brothers who work with our rites of passage that some of you may not know, i share some of it in the book that had some some folks who were ready to take, quote, unquote, justice into their own hands. And if it had not been for the men who worked with our men, we would have had multiple tragedies in this church and we would have had multiple funerals or we would have talking to multiple young through plexiglas. So im just for for the men and and work that that they did. But let me use the city of chicago as an example we people who are willing to place this as a priority in the city and we use the wrong language. We keep saying public and we should be saying Public Health. Because when you say public safety, you are only responding and putting more money in the hands of. Police officers, police have their role. But if you say Public Health, then all of a sudden i need to deploy. And social workers, i need to have Restorative Justice programs in the public schools. We need to the entire approach and we need to see every child as valued and valuable that we should mourn, collect civilly instead of mourning just in a Community Aspect of this is just what happens over. And so i would say to every young person that that we have are in the moment where we can change the way this city does business to reverse some of the issues around gun violence. Number one is we shouldnt be works with a live free program. We believe that youve got to have interrupters. Number two, we need to make sure that we an office gun violence prevention at least by 250 million. We already fund the police by a ton, clubs, 1,000,000,000, but just an office of gun violence. And then that that would mean people who are deployed in our neighborhood. Do you know that we can predict who will be shot within a radius of something. Like 50, 50 feet to 100 feet in terms of where someone lives based on one young person is shot. They already have predictive models in terms of who the person will be. Its like its a disease. But guess what the center of Disease Control in atlanta cannot use those models because there was a law was passed specifically by the gun lobby to say that you cannot follow that kind of predictive because it will affect gun sales. So we have to have a completely different approach. This is about Public Health and about human flourishing. And we need to demand every alderman, need to demand every mayor, demand every commissioner, demand every person who runs for congress to say that they have a position on Public Health. Its enough to put some more toward policing because they are responders. We want prevention and prevention is always cheaper than respond. If you want to spend money, then lets begin to put money toward prevention right. 50 interrupters can do more than 500 police. Let me say it again. 50 interop speakers can do more than 500 Police Officers because their job is to prevention. 50 social workers can do more than 500 Police Officers because their job is prevention. Police officers are. And we keep sending money to respond and were not doing the work on prevention. Let me let me give you another example that. Richmond, california took a response position. I believe it was probably about 15, 17 years ago. They took a response proposition. They began to hire brothers, used to be in the life to do the interruption. Within six years, they had dropped the gun violence rate. By 70 because they took prevention as a priority and not response. They gave every brother a job. They sure did. And they paid them a living wage with insurance. I mean, they could also, you know take care of their families. They had insurance. And so thats thats the model that we have. We keep electing people and we keep allowing lobbies to deter what the policy is going to be in chicago. We know how to fix this, we just need to have people with enough political courage to step forward, to be able to do the work that we need done. This next question is from deirdre online. The question is for reverend warnock. What what is the scripture you call when you walk through the valley of the shadow of death on capitol hill among among those who who call on the name of jesus, do not step in his footsteps. I call the rest of that verse. I will fear i call on the rest of that verse, i will fear no evil. [applause] for thou art with me. And i keep walking through the valley. Thats all you can do. And i know that i wouldnt be there without the prayers of the righteous. And my experience has taught me that with every assignment comes equipment. If it is indeed a divine assignment, if it is a divine assignment with the assignment will come the necessary equipment, both for the thiu need and the people you need surrounding you. And so this work has been tough, its hard work and it requires a lot of me. I ran for three years straight. Now finally have a sixyear term. I clearly went after this job. My name has been on the ballot five times for the same dog on job. But i am amazed with the resources and support that has showed up here i didnt go running after this. I was asked three times to run for the United States the senate. And i said yes only after the third time, and it felt like it was the right time and i didnt know what that would look like. I didnt know that a month or so after i announced we would find ourselves in the midst of a strange virus. I announced on january 30th, and in midmarch the world shut down. How do you campaign in the circumstances . We did know how to do anything. We didnt even know how to do church and now i was trying to figure how to Campaign Come first time i ever run for Public Office in the middle of covid19 pandemic. But what that did was that brought in sharp focus issues that ive been addressing while before i ran for the senate, like inequity in our healthcare system. Because while everybody was impacted by covid19, we saw we inscribed in the midst of the pandemic foran things that we se with chronic illness and all of these issues, access to healthcare. We saw black and brown and poor people dying at a disproportionate rate here and so the pandemic brought in the sharp focus thingsor that ive been fighting for for years trying to get georgia to expand medicaid, for example. That happened in march, at that a couple of months after that we were wrestling with covid19. We saw the emergence in the tragic way covid 1619. George floyd, a black man yet dying again with a knee on his neck there it wasnt the first time we have all seen that on tv. Because i remember a few years ago i came here to preach one sunday, and you had a whole surface responding to the killing of eric garner preached about that that sunday, and he too choked to death on the new york city street. And i wondered why that wasnt the kind of outpouring of concern that i would have expected in the wake of that. George floyd wasnt the first time. But something i think about being in the midst of the pandemic, all of us hold up in our homes, nowhere to go. I think was harder for the country to turn away, and weve been sitting there in her house was for a couple of months anyway already frustrated. And thenou the whole country saw this human tragedy unfold. And you couldnt turn away. And as a result of that we saw a Multiracial Coalition of conscience pour out into american streets, masked up to protect themselves from one pandemic while waging war against another pandemic. And in the midst of all of that i was running for the United States senate. The pastor of Ebenezer Church. And then weeks after that presiding over the funeral of john lewis, our great hero. And so i felt called to this work, and its the reason why i do it every single day. And i am deeply honored to do it. And while i enjoyed the work im doing, for me the senate is, the sin is another tool, but my project is the same as its alwaysys been, dancing and encouraging others to dance in the darkness. And i inspired to be here. I tell more distorted by the way in my book away out of nowhere, which is my memoir that came out. Amazon. Com. Im just kidding. [laughter] this next question is for pastor mossberg many black outlets generate revenue by focusing on thecu blackness, focusing on the darkness of hate toward our communities. How do we explore whats possible without theory the darkness limitation . There is a need and a necessity for us to learn how to celebrate us, the resiliency and the brilliance that, thats what i find so beautiful about our history and our stories. I think that we must learn how to traffic in our own stories and be able to share our own stories. And when we begin to share our own stories, we recognize the beauty of those stories. Theres this tendency to think that our story is only one type of story, its only one way. Oh, its so sad to. No, its absolutely utterly brilliant and magnificent and incredible. There are evenst sociologists tt study black people to try and figure out how in the world did you all do this . Because of the literal brilliance, as doctor raphael warnockeo said, he said people give us the blues and then we start singing the blues. We have this capacity to be able to be so incredibly resilient in the counselri of our. And what i say spirituality im not talking denomination peered under talking someones talkingat about tk about their particular inherent values that we recognize that wt are all gifts of the sacred, that we all have this part of the divine, we have the imprint of god, the fingerprints of the creator on us. And we have to begin to traffic the stories. Guess what . That begin by picking up your phone, let me find a good black story. Sometimes you gotta go into something thats called read a book. Not only read a book, youve got to listen to the stories of elders. I was asked a question, i was at Georgetown University for a book signing and one of our former interns, minister mahogany asked this question about stories, and how do you know the stories . Ith said one, i had the opportunity to hear the stories of myy mother, hear the stories of my father i listened to them, number one. Number two is our household was filled with books, and all of these fascinating stories that were in these books here and then number three, finding alternative media. For example, the cleveland call and post was a post r that had a high like that was one of the jobs, by the name of john bustamante. John bustamante who owned the paper was what of the funders of Jesse Jackson camping in 1984. He said his responsibility was that he wanted to put stories in the mind of black people that allowed them to fly. Thats all he wanted to do. He said he wanted a child to pick up a newspaper not just look at some pictures e stories of triumph, here stories the power, hear stories of beauty. And that people sit at the Kitchen Table and begin to repeat those stories. Im a preacher. Dr. Raphael warnock is a preacher. We tell stories. We tell stories about this brother named jesus. And when youor got the right story, it will change your world. Its like this. If you operate under the that someone else wrote, you will be a character in their movie. But if you write your own script. You to be the star and the hero at the same time. So lets start right our own stories. He does that, by the way in odysseus dream. If you havent that film, you need to see it. Its a great film. This question is for both of you. This question from donna online. How do we prepare the next generation to be ready to carry the mantle . Love and justice justice. It begins with weve got to keep telling the story. One of the most tragic lines i think in scripture be found in the book of judges, i believe Second Chapter where it says then joshua died and those in joshuas generation died, they were gathered up to the ancestors and the next line says there arose a generation that knew not the lord nor the work the lord have done. Im struck by that. They will include land joshua takes them into the land and his peers think about that, we earlier a few years where folks who remember thehe movement, the will come a time when they are all grown. Thats not what was tragic, what was tragic was there emerged a whole generation that didnt know yahweh. They didnt know the god through moses met on the side of the mountain and told pharaoh to let my people go. To pass our story on our children to tell the stories time and time again and thats what his brother is trying to do it is doing effectively not only is book that recently, sunday after sunday and wei are trying to find creative ways the children in sunday school and a Childrens Book released last week called put shoes on and get ready. [applause] im excited about the book is anything iveny read it was kids doing the what happens, let me encourage parents listening or the job of teenagers is to be unimpressed with you will and to act like theybe are listening or they are listening and they dont even know they are listening. Some things are talk, most things are. All of us have been those kids in the back of the church talking rolling your eyes. Your dad orr your mom. [laughter] but he caught it doing the same was doing, behe encouragedit. I want to add to what youre saying because when you read to the children today, were doing the work of teaching them love and justice, giving them a story they can repeat, giving them images that look like them so they can be destroyed and have images that look like them and they go home and say mom, we read that story to me . Then it repeats over and over and over time met story becomes embedded in you and thats what we want to do, embedded some things in our children. The danger is, there incorporations trying to embed things our children so we have to be radical activists actively working to embed these stories of beauty and resiliency and love and justice and respect, agrees, at the mercy in our children. It is not j just writing and children sitting here, its going h home and when you pray with your children, praying over a meal, thats embedding to start, embedding ritual and the. I will never forget history and doing what teens do, yeah, you and something incredibly disrespectful. He saw hiss parents door open d heard noise and thought maybe his parents were fighting or somethingoo and he sees his fatr and mother praying out loud for him. He said the image is the name before god changed his life. Stshe said i still messed up but something was embedded in the forever, theres power when your child hears power when your child sees and said i wanted the same thing for my children, they would see me on my knees all who see children raised will this question is for doctor warner, he enjoyed light sworn in kamala harris. You amazing will and i am deeply honored by your question. Being sworn in by the Vice President of the United States think about that picture. On the first black senator from the state of georgia elected the same time as first africanamerican senator and good reason to rejoice by levin when i go to places, i want to say is be careful in a way that suggests linking indicator. Number 11, think aboutep that in the whole history of the republic, im only number 11. When barack obama was in the senate, he was the only one, thats how rare. Think about that history, here i am being morning first black senator from georgia, 11 by the first black person in first asian person Vice President sworn in by her. We all see so on cspan, i was sworn in. Lately caleb has been obsessed withth karate. So i come out my aisle of the chamber and being sworn twice, once on the floor of the senate and nobody standing there but senators on the floor and there is a ceremonial i swearingin, your family and be there and children come down the aisle, an incredible moment and i say hello madam Vice President and shes sweet and kind and leans over and says i and caleb is on she was so kind and gracious so i know that my son was all that impressed. Hell understand that. We want to thank everyone for being with us today for this conversation. We were to think cspan for being with us today broadcasting and we are going to have the book signing in the back. You want to give announcements . Before exit this lovely sanctuary, we do have a bit of protocol for our lovely guests joining us today. I want to getnt this right. We are asking everyone to sit out of it these door in the atrium. We were not doing any sales but we are asking once the book is signed, exit through the west door. No one will be able to come through the atrium west door. We thank you for c cooperating n we lookely effort and forward to getting these for our newsletter using the you are on the screen to receive update, book to be every sunday on cspan2 or anytime online at the tv network. Television for serious readers. We can from cspan2 art. Every saturday American History to be documented in stories. The labor of others. Funding for cspan2 comes these Television Companies and more including charter communications. Trevor is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers and getting the 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to free theost. Charter communications along with these Television Companies cspan2 as a public service. He spent online sure for. Apparel, books and