economic and emotional upheaval these women from various occupations classes races and ages played an important role in the war their bravery resourcefulness and resilience influence the evolution of the nation and help the country to survive its first tested democracy since the american revolution. few words about kate before coming to fort mchenry national monuments in historic shrine. keep work for seven years in the national park service chesapeake bay gateway's office as a visual information specialist. prior to working for the national park service. she served as a museum director and also coordinator over the conservation assessment program and also coordinator for the state's effort for the war of 1812 bicentennial from 2012 to 2015 the celebration that went over a number of years. i think it's really cool to note that kate's parents took her to national parks and museums throughout her childhood setting the stage for kate's love of history and museums. so without further ado i hand you put put you in good hands with ranger kate marks hardy, so please take it away. keep thanks, jeff to note. also jeff was the first person to hire me out of college. so thanks jeff for taking a chance on me. it was a good chance. all right, so i'm gonna let me share my screen and we can get this started. okay. thanks everyone. so hi again. yes. i am kate marks hardy the partnership coordinator at fort mchenry hampton and national historic site as well as the trail manager for the star-spangled banner national historic trail. we're going to be talking about women in the chesapeake during the war of 1812. but before we do i just want to also get a little background to the star-spangled banner national historic trail when you think of the word trail the thing that probably pops into your mind might be a path through the woods or a mountain pass or even a bike trail and unfortunately, this trail is really none of those instead. it is a 560 mile long water and land root that follow the american and british troop movements during the war of 1812 throughout the chesapeake bay. of course these actions lead to the writing of the national anthem which is why is designated a national trail a a root of national significance to this country which is kind of why we why i'm here today is because last year we started a partnership with pride of baltimore too. and of course, it's kind of a no-brainer when you think of it pride being a replica war of 1812 schooner and us be and sailing around the bay and our trail basically being the bay for us to partner on some great programs. this one is called the trail ambassador program where we work with underserved youth and their families to offer them day sales in eight porch towns around the around the bay we also had had sure side exhibits and free deck tours for the general public and it's pretty cool. i'm happy to announce. we'll be doing it again this summer when pride is in the chesapeake so stay tuned to hear more about that. so i also want to say that when i was asked to do this talk we were kind of trying to think about what date should we do it what thursday makes the most sense and when i realized that may or i'm excuse me, march 3rd was up for a possible a possible. it was open for me to do a talk. i was like no-brainer. so i just wanted to do a special shout-out that today in 1925 fort mchenry was set aside as a national park in national memorial. so happy nps birthday to fort mchenry the headquarters of the star spangled banner national stork trail and where my offices are today is also national anthem day. so today is the date back in 1931 that congress especially designated the star-spangled banner as the national anthem. so when we realize that jeff and i are like we got to do it on march 3rd. we gotta do it. this perfect seems meant to be so back to the topic women in the chesapeake during the war of 1812. so when we talk about the star-spangled banner national historic trail, it follows the military movements of the british in american troops during the war and that led up to the right of the national anthem and that provides one important perspective of the story, but the civilian perspective is also is also an important lens to view the history and also offers a more holistic approach and so as jeff mentioned an honor of women's history month we wanted to go ahead and focus on the stories of the women. so during this time women were predominantly in domestic roles when the royal navy showed up these their lives were these normal lives were upended british rage placed british raids placed many of of their homes families livelihoods. in great danger and those who had husbands that served were suddenly found themselves the primary caretakers of the of all domestic life for their families. so it is through these their observations and accidents during this time of these women made history. so we will be exploring the events of the war of 1812 in the chesapeake. i want to just put out there that i'm not going to be doing a full military campaign overview. we're only going to be highlighting those events that have a female perspective. so and we're gonna be going through credit chronologically and we're going to be doing kind of a limited geographic range. so i want to apologize to our virginia partners any fans of the chesapeake flotilla and any historians for north point or the battles of -- field. we're not going to be talking about those sites. so i apologize, but it'll be it'll still be a great presentation. i also just want to point out that sources of information for some of these stories have come through letters obituaries. also other recollections done several years after the fact um, and so there's not necessarily that some of the stuff has has gone into local lore because not always could it's kind of hard to sometimes cross-verify these events. but the ones that i've chosen to talk about tonight do have a caveat of truth, and i've talked to a couple of stories who said there's there's we think there's a nugget of truth behind these stories. so i did verify those i didn't want to go and start spreading. the fake stories about the war of 1812 and i also wanted to tie these so there's there's probably multiple and some of you may know some that. i don't cover tonight, but i also wanted to tie these stories of women to trail partner sites. i mean, i'm here managing a 560 mile long trail we have amazing museum partners all throughout the chesapeake and i wanted to make sure that where i could i could highlight our partners so with that let's get started. i don't want to assume that everyone knows or everyone's an expert of the war of 1812. so we're gonna go ahead and just do a quick promise quick overview of the war of 1812 just for some background and context. so the first thing i'd like to say, is that the war of 1812 was was a three-year war. i think it's important to put that out there. it went from june 18th 1812 to february 17th 1815. and it's it's important for me to say that because when i started talking about the events in the chesapeake a lot of them happened in 1813 and 1814 and 1815. and so you don't think i'm crazy not talking about 1812. it's because the war actually was three years. it's just a poorly named war. so we're looking at a time frame 30 years after the american revolution were brand new country. britain is at war with france, which is it has been so for for years as putting kind of a strain on their resources. they are starting to stop american merchants and are impressing american citizens into service into the world navy. that really angers us they are also suspected to be hot be behind some american native american raids on our western frontier and there's british occupation. there's british soldiers in some disputed land along the border. so with with the canadian border, excuse me, so with all of those things, we finally declare war on great britain on june 1812. and it wasn't made necessaril the smartest thing at first our navy is severely outnumbered. we've got 17 ships to the to their 500 their fleet of five more than 500 and our army is definitely more than half of what the british army numbers are and ours are scattered. so we we were a little unprepared for this. for the first couple for the actions during 1812 the primary events are going to be happening along here the the canadian and us border and out in the atlantic. you know while great britain is fighting france, you know, maybe maybe the canadian colonies would want to come over to us. we don't know and britain didn't want to find out so in 1813, they want to draw some of the troops that are here and draw them off and away from there canadian colony. so they decide to target the chesapeake. it is a hub of decision making and political power and so in 1813 the come to america. when they come they are in february 1813. they blockade the chesapeake bay and they do this for two years disrupting the nation's economy and and trade the royal navy at the time is also conducting raids all the way from norfolk virginia all the way up to the susquehanna rating and looting coastal towns. so one of the first actions or one of the first things they do is in the upper bay of the chesapeake. so and here we are finally thanks for being patient. we're here to talk about some of the women in the war of 1812. so it's pretty interesting. is that the three stories? i'm going to highlight here. all have a bit of folklore attributed to them they all also have also involved kind of standing up to the british, which i think is pretty great as well. so we're going to start with chronologically elkton. so, elkton, maryland now elkton during the war of 1812 was one town that had successfully repulsed the british invasion twice. the other town is saint michael so a little bit of trivia for you in case you find yourself needing to know that information, but for elkton hetty bolden who was an enslaved 20 year old african-american woman is believed to have helped save elton from from being torched by the british. so when the british approached approached elkton they arrived at whitehall, which was the home of boldens and slaver frisbee henderson, and they were told that they couldn't reach the what they couldn't reach the town by water. so they asked heady to escort them on foot to take them to lead them there on foot. and she was reluctant and they had promised her money and they had promised her freedom if they were to do this. apparently she could have taken a direct road to elkton but instead purposely misled them and frustrated them so that after a while they turned back swearing of course to burn come back and burn all that they could so this is pretty amazing to think that here's a woman who's enslaved purposely misleading people who possibly could have freed her and you know, there were some people who doubt whether or not this story is true, but there are multiple public records that including a census record death notice that there is a woman named hedy an african american woman named hedy who lived in carol or in cecil county. excuse me during this time in her 70s. there is a she supposedly our woman claiming to be heady gave an interview to the cecil wig telling about this story and her obituary, which is highlighted here on the screen also notes the incident the other thing that kind of sounds like a little bit of negative truth. is that the british were known to do this sort of thing to find local guides and sometimes force people to serve. to serve as their guides in these and in the landscape to help them navigate so it's not. it's not far-fetched to think that this could have happened. um, so that is that is the first for for 1812? just a couple days later on may 3rd havre de grace is attacked by by the british. so many of you may know this story of having to grace. may 3rd morning of may 3rd 400 british troops come to havre de grace and begin to burn and loop the town the militia who had who had shot some vile of some volley of fire. pretty much fled one man. john o'neill did the best he could to kind of be a one person defense? obviously, he was overwhelmed overtaken and was a prisoner of war on the british and taken out to the hm frigate maidstone. that was that was anchored offshore. so the local legend is that his 15 year old daughter matilda went and got secured his freedom. i don't know. how where we're how much influence or you can say that she led the charge but is public record. and he did have a daughter named matilda and there's a public record of a miss o'neil being part of the flag of truth delegation from the town that went out to the maidstone to to secure o'neill's release and we're not sure exactly what happened, but he was paroled three days later. so most likely she was part of that and probably the youngest member and what i think is really interesting. okay to put in today's terms. we're talking about a 15 year old girl. so right like let's say she's high school sophomore can drive going out with other towns people but going out to the people who had just rated her town burned burned down 2/3 of the buildings to plead for her father's life. i think that that i think that that just shows amount of bravery it encouraged that. that you wouldn't necessarily expect from a 15 year old girl, so it's pretty amazing the the other part of this that still might be a little bit more. this isn't as proven. is that coburn who was animal george coburn who was the person in charge of these raids on the british admiral? excuse me that he was supposedly so so impressed by her that he gave her a gold-mounted toward her cell box that now actually is in the collection of the maryland center for history and culture. so i'm not sure it went that far, but that is still part of the whole legend. and then shortly thereafter. after being in havre de grace three days later the british sale up the sassafras. the melissa there from fort duffy fired upon the british which they don't like they usually go to teach people a lesson and sure enough. they went to bird. oh gosh. i'm sorry. yes bird, fredericktown and georgetown to two cities right there on opposite sides of the sassafras river. they first went to fredericktown and burned it and then came to georgetown. and when they came to georgetown a woman by the name of catherine kitty knight apparently pled with coburn to save one house that was occupied by an older alien woman and also the house turned out she was able to save the house next door that she was renting that she had lived it. so there are records of kitty buying the house that she had been rented and then in 19 in 1836 and then 1855 when she died her obituaries actually the first record of this happening. um, so there was no contender there was no contemporary accounts of it happening during the battle again. did this happen? you know, we're you know, you have to ask that question. but okay, so first those two structures that she's supposedly saved still stand. so that's that's good, too. that's interesting to know they both stand and they actually have been combined into an in a restaurant that bears her name and also coburn as we kind of learned from matilda and also, he's there's a couple stories of him throughout throughout this chesapeake of him. hearing these please and and yes backing off and and listening to when when people especially women would come and ask him to stop so it doesn't seem out of character for him and it's not something that seems completely crazy because there seems to be a pattern in his behavior to do that. so it is believed that they're that this this there's truth to this story. so following these three events the british continued doing raids in the chesapeake during 1813. in fact, they the hidden saint michael's like i mentioned earlier twice unsuccessfully did attack queenstown in queen anne's county. the british that at the wintertime left the chesapeake and came back in spring of 1814. and it was a different game when they came back napoleon had been defeated so all of the attention had been put towards the fighting france. it was now over so that means about 14,000 battle hard soldiers were coming to be coming to america and one of the primary targets was the chesapeake region and it was the objective was to bring economic hardship to the area. so one of the things that they do in april is alexander cochran, who's the charge of the north american station, so essentially coburn's boss he puts out this proclamation basically saying hey if anyone wants to come over to the british side, you know, you can become a british citizen. well, we sell you in one of our colonies now, it doesn't specifically call this out. but he this is aimed towards the enslaved population and they are they are pretty successful they get about an estimated 4,000 people to come freedom seekers to come to the british and become british citizens. um, this this is a pretty amazing because they are they are hitting the economy with that is based on slave labor and they're also gaining the knowledge some of the some of the local knowledge of the waterways and the landscapes. so the british continue with raids? during during the summer of 1814 they skirmished with joshua barney and the fotella. so there i slipped it in a little um, and then in august of 1814 they decide to go to and take washington. so this is where we're gonna hit our next three women learn about the next three women. they all are the that only the regionally near each other, but they all provide and and educated white perspective. so 'cause we know about them is through a lot of this through their letters. as a british come up to invade washington, they need to go through the town of bladensburg. that's where they meet a force of primarily militia. soldiers and it is an american route easy british victory and the british are able to go into washington. a woman by the name of rosalie calvert, who is at riversdale? she's able to actually witness the the battle from her second story window. in fact, she claims to have seen several cannibals with her own eyes. most likely these were concrete rockets, but she's actually able to witness it and so it's interesting to note. is that she also 20 years earlier had escaped belgium because of napoleon's forces. so they escaped to come to america and here she is seeing almost a similar invasion here with the british. so she also makes other notes in her diaries for to help us to kind of gain. what was going on what we may not think about when we're thinking about the battle bladensburg one of them being that her husband and there are several of their enslaved field hands helped bury some of the dead after the battle. in fact, she notes having her bedroom full of rifles pistols sabers etc. most likely from coming from the people that that her husband had buried now that battle also was witnessed by a woman down in oxen cove park. woman by the name of mary debutts here in this quote and this this is kind of a cool illustration of a perspective of what the burning of washington would have looked like from mount well be her house in oxen cove. so she writes how they could feel their house shaking from all the different the different explosions and such and she describes it as indeed a day and night of horror. but i find interesting about mary debuts though is that she's english and her husband is irish and they are british sympathizers. um, so but they but the wars hit them hard. they're unable english markets. and they in english banks and they are struggling to keep their farm. so. as the british the land forces are going into washington. there is also a naval force going up the potomac to support to support the army and it's interesting that she notes that here. she is how much it hurts her to think of her countrymen as the enemy. and then talks about finding three concrete rockets all her go on her yard because they had attacked her house and kind of the inner turmoil. she must have been feeling of having to look at her own countrymen. as as that so next we move to washington you guys probably know this story well story of of dolly madison can i could not not do dolly i mean it was kind of the obvious one. i was like, oh do i do doll? i was like i had to do dolly you look asked. why didn't i do dolly if i don't include dolly all this? so many of you know what happened here, she so with the battle of bladensburg being being a british victory, they get word that it's time to evacuate the city and she i mean while had originally had set the table they were gonna be planning for a victory party. so she as instructing her helpers her slave servants to save as much as they can as many national treasures as they can including the portrait of george washington now, correct. she did not do it herself. she instructed others to do. so, but the fact that she would have the the state of mind to be that deliberate is pretty amazing. i mean her husband she's not sure her husband is she knew he was at the battlefield and she's just getting word that she has to go and she does make the the effort to try to save what she can some of these. so he's being national treasures today. so following the invasion of washington the british. the british go back or go back to their ships and they sail up to baltimore. the next target is baltimore. and hopefully you guys are figuring out that these maps with the blue spots are kind of where i'm talking about these stories. so the british they come up to baltimore. that's their next target. they start both a land and see invasion of the city. a bombardment of fort mchenry from the naval forces is 25 hours. when the bombardment stops an american happens to be out in the patapsco river made by the name of francis. scott. key sees the flag flying over the fort and so inspired. that he writes the words that become the us national anthem. this day in 1931. um, so let's talk a little bit about that flag that him to do that. that flag was made by a household of women that household led by mary pickersville. so mary pickerscale is a woman who's born in pennsylvania. she's by the time she moves to baltimore. she's a widow with with a daughter and she is an experienced ship and signal flag maker. and in 1813, she's 37 and she's commissioned to make two flags for for the ford one is 30 by 42. that's the main garrison flag and then a smaller one for the storm flag. it's 17 by 25. and she's not the only one doing this though. she is. she's got her 13 year old daughter carolyn. she's got two teenage teenage nieces of 13 year old eliza and 15 year old margaret. she also has 13 year old african-american indentured servant grace wisher helping her with this her mom. who's older might be helping her and mary also had enslaved someone and they very well probably were helping as well because this type of project would have been at all hands on deck. i am someone who i was a volunteer who did the stitching history project back in maryland historical site now then maryland historical society now, maryland center for history and culture where they recreated the hand. so the recreated they 40 by 32 foot flag. and i had to look this up they did in the same time. the idea is that they did this all the same time flat as time frame that mary and her crew did so seven weeks about proximately seven weeks. the stitching history project had 218 volunteer stitchers that let that logged over 3,700 hours. um, and that was for one flag and it was a lot. we're talking two flags with just a small team of women. it's pretty amazing. and then here you have. let's quote from carolyn later in her life saying that her mom she remembers her mom staying up late till 12 o'clock at night to keep to keep working on this and so i wanted to call it out because here this group of women created one of the most beloved icons in american history. so following the unsuccessful attempt on fort mchenry the british then came out of baltimore and they eventually the majority of the british forces left the chesapeake. the treaty of ghent was signed by by representatives in indent in the december 24th 1814 and was finally ratified. are signed by i should say signed by madison on february 17th, 1815 end of the war. end of story not yet. i have one more story to share with you. that's the story of lucy hall. so do you remember that proclamation that i mentioned that cochran had done back in april of 1814? well, the british forces still were kind of lingering in the chesapeake. they were completely out. two days after madison signs the signs a ratified the treaty 21 year old who sent a hall and her daughter letty and five others escaped their enslavement on george loker's state indigo's, maryland. they boarded the british frigate hannah. lucy's husband jacob who's enslaved by someone else was already there and they escaped to the ship and they were resettled later in nova scotia now, i don't don't know a lot about lucy per se but the reason why i bring her up is because of her legacy her legacy through her son, so lucy and and her husband jacob ended up having a son named william hall back in 18 and 1827. william would go on to join the british military and become the first black person the first nova scotian the first canadian sailor to earn the victorian cross for bravery. so i thought that that was i just could not not tell that story. it's something i learned recently. i mean done this history for over 10 years, and i think it's a fascinating story to tell. so i wanted to conclude with just talking a little bit about where you can go to learn more about these stories. if you want to learn more about heavy bold and i suggest you go to historic elk landing in elk elkton, maryland places are starting to open up now. that's why i want to get you out on the trail. i know in the past historic elk landing has done living history of someone doing living history of hetty bolded, so it'd be a great place if you're interested in learning more about her. the town of havre de grace is a great place to learn about john o'neill and his family and his daughter matilda, especially the lighthouse that he was the first lighthouse keeper of in that picture because of his actions during the war of 1812, but no go to go to have any grace check out the visitor center learn more about the o'neal's and particular matilda o'neill. in georgetown is the kidney lighthouse that is a restaurant and it is a business. so i do have to say that it is a business but there we do have several trail signs there. it's a cute little town and you could definitely go and learn more about kitty there. riversdale house museum in riverdale park is a wonderful place to learn about rosalie calvert. they usually help hold the annual battle bladensburg event. so look for that. hopefully we'll be doing that again this year and we should be sending a trail representative there for that event. oxen cove park and oxon hill farm. that's an national park service site. there is where that that's a working farm, but that is the site of matt welby where mary debuts lived and found those concrete rockets on her yard. so i highly recommend going there to learn more about her. president's park white house visitor center again, another nps site a great place to learn more about dolly madison. and go definitely gotta go the flag house if you haven't been there yet, please go amanda her group do such an amazing job there to talk about mary and all and grace and all the people of mary's team that helped create that flag. now for lucy i did i did. i don't have a site necessarily that over museum that's necessarily telling her history, but i wanted to point this out. um, this website is fabulous made by the maryland state archives during the bicentennial so it's a couple years old, but this is actually where i got some information about about lucy they have it's a case studies of the war of 1812 in maryland. you can search by by county and learn about those who are enslaved the people who enslave them. it's a really great resource. so i wanted to call that out for for you all to to check out. i also wanted to do a quick thanks ranger shannon retired ranger scott. thank you for your help with this and then two wonderful interns sydney and chris who helped with some of the research for this. so just a little personal shout out to their thanks for this for this presentation. and with that i am done. and i'll stop the share. thank you so much kate. there's i learned a lot actually so like, you know you think you know these stories and i actually learned a ton and quick question before introduce jeff crosby. so the kitty night house in georgetown, so i get to ask a question because i'm in control so i'm cutting in line. i'm cutting in line. um the kitty night house. is that that actually the house where she what wow there's no i didn't realize that. all right. i think we're gonna by jeff crosby. i believe so here he comes and just to monitor the amazing jeff crosby. i should say he's going to monitor in feed some questions to uk. absolutely. i'm so if you have any questions, please put those in the q&a section or the chat either of those will work. it'll be at the bottom of your screen on the webinar. i do have to say i'm super jealous of the speed of those flags hours. i think that's something that we could use on the ship any day of the week. that is really really impressive. yeah, right. yeah, i mean when you think about that and like i said having participated as a volunteer for that that project i really understood like wow, that was impressive. yes, and somebody who's selling miles and miles and miles of sales. i yeah can't help be impressed by that. and at this point we don't have any questions coming in. yes. feel free to ask questions as you feel. like you have them. to kind of shift gears a little bit. so we're we're partnering again with you this summer. what's that? what's that gonna look like i still on the works. we haven't really nailed down a lot of it yet, but yeah, we're still working on that so it's gonna be slightly abbreviated. we have a little fun so we can't do as many and i'll show you guys are going to be in the great lakes which is exciting. so we're gonna be looking to do it in the spring and fall. we have a couple dates in baltimore. our partner baltimore partners have jumped on it and some of our other partners around the trail. they are they're just double checking and having to work with other partner to ask other people to see if there's a if one weekend works better than the other but we should be having we should be finalizing that pretty soon. so we will get that out and announce as soon as we know. yeah. i'm going to put my i'll put my email in the chat in case anyone wants to follow up with me later. feel free to add to email me a question. i was gonna put this whole thing. so this is to panelists and attendees. it's very simple kate underscore marks and nps.gov if i don't know it i will find someone who does know the answer to that question. so please i'm happy to answer. whatever, whatever you want to know. fabulous. we've got a question in from robert hardy. how did your time at saint mary's college his alma matter, i your interest in history. um, so yeah, so that's really funny. i how did it inspire my interest in history. that is because it's the you know, it's it's maryland's first capital right? so i absolutely felt i mean the campus is beautiful and i love being surrounded by the history. i actually started off as a bio major which is really funny, but history was always something that really stuck with me if that makes sense. am i like jeff had mentioned my dad would drag me. i've been to so many battlefields as a kid and so many different museums and i don't know i just loved it and so after doing one year of bio and then also being in and being surrounded in history at a college it kind of was a no-brainer. i also had a really fabulous advisor that and i someone i took a class with every semester that kind of helped nurture that love fabulous, we have another question in. um from bob essis, he says first off. thanks for the webinar. i live on hunting creek in calvert county local legends says that the british came right by the location of my house on their way to prince frederick, maryland, frederick, maryland. sorry any details, you can add ps. my son was also a buyer made bio major at saint mary's. i think we all start off there then you just kind of syrup. so yes, i know the british did go to huntington. i don't know about exactly where they went on around your house bob. i don't know exactly the root, but i can find out for you. see my email address. please email me this and i will find out for you. i know they did go there. that's one of all that's one of the sites. i just i don't know the exact route yet. so let me look that up for you. excellent and it looks like that is it for questions? and i'll ask while we give just another minute if anybody has a name kate, i think people don't have many because you did such an amazing job. so that was really good. i have a question you core were the coordinator for so much of the war of 1812 bicentennial for the statewide bicentennial. do you have some favorite memories from those hard working years? oh my god. those are some of my most favorite years. actually. that's what's so funny. you know. um, i loved working with the partners which sounds that's probably why i do partnerships stuff. now i loved going to to see all the different regions and working with people who are really passionate about their local story and just inspiring to be honest with you i don't know if i have a favorite. i mean, you know celebration was amazing. that's an easy one to get or if that's too easy. you know, i would say. and then we also organize and it's funny. we organized these called fam tours or families a familiarization tours. where we took people from we'd scheduled them i guess about eight or nine of the regions and you know, they're open to everyone who wanted to come we would get. professelman who's a pretty you know, it's kind of considered one of the historians about the war of 1812 in the chesapeake and he would come and lead a tour and we would work with local partners. sometimes we go sailing that would be part of it. there's lunch be provided and it was a small fee to participate but we did that in each place and you really got to see and learn about the local history and that's how i really got to know. what was going on with the with the trail? and actually you didn't ask this, but i feel like i just want to tell people because i think it's fabulous one of my favorite spots on the trail. they're all my favorite spots, right? they're like but one of my favorite spots to do and i actually had as my background image until i realized it was wrong season. because it's a fall picture is fenno road in lower prince george's county because there is there's a place where there you can actually see a sunken road, which is what what the road would have looked like at the time and so it's kind of like that power of place right where you can imagine the british soldiers marching like that's what this is what it would have looked like when they were marching through the area and i love that. you know to to put myself to put myself it's pretty amazing. um so that's one of my favorite places because i feel like that landscape allows me to see what it would have been like 200 years ago. i want to call out. although it's privately owned cox field is one of the best preserved. i mean war of 1812 battlefields in in maryland, and i could you can make the argument maybe even in the country because it's been farmed pretty much the same way as it's as it's been since the battle and back in 2014 julie sublitski and and the she's with the state highway. she's an amazing archeologist. she led a crew there and they were able to find enough things to help them learn exactly. how the battle transpired which is pretty cool. so, you know some of the some of the more some of the places a little closer to my heart are those that haven't been developed yet and kind of you can kind of almost picture yourself as a witness to history. i'll just hear real quick one of my favorite memories from the bicentennial years here in baltimore. where in honor of mayor and women's history month is the stitching project when it was complete. i don't think you mentioned this cape the women that led that effort marched with the flag from the maryland center for history and culture to fort mchenry. so through baltimore down baltimore streets, and i had this memory of kate marks following that flag. trying to tweet and do instagram and everything out of phone and she ran across streets in baltimore. i was a favorite memory of mine. we'll also remember having to jump on and when people like that because it's heavy it's like 50 pounds and then being like all right hold i'll take a turn and having to help help carry down. it was yeah. no, it was good. yeah, that's really funny. that's it. or jeff, are there any other questions or nope, we're all caught up on questions. but yeah if you have further questions just reach out to kate directly or you can jump on our website if they're questions that are more boat related and we can handle those pride number two that work. awesome. well, cool. i want to thank you kate for taking the time to do this tonight. and thank you everybody for joining us tonight. follow american history tv on twitter facebook and youtube for schedule updates to learn about what happened this day in history watch videos and learn more about the people and events that have shaped the american story find us at cspanhistory. hello everyone. my name is morgan and i'm an event manager with politics and pros and i'd like to welcome you all to pnp live. let's introduce tonight's guests. willard stern randall is a disk distinguished scholar in history and professor emeritus at champ chaplain college as a biographer lecturer and lecturer. he specializes in the history of the founding era and he has been on c-span's book notes. history.com history dot net and more brandl has taught american history at john cabot university in rome and is a contributing editor to mhq the quarterly jo