[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] university of michigan professor barbara mcquaide joins us to discuss the Michael Flynn perjury case. That case before the full court of appeals in d. C. Circuit yesterday. Can you start by reminding viewers why it was before that full panel yesterday . Spit at this is very much a process case. A threejudge panel of the District Of Columbia courts has granted a motion. Its an extraordinary remedy that follows a judge would want to do something or not do something and directed the judge in Michael Flynn case to dismiss the case but would happen yesterday is all 10 judges were eligible to decide the case and vacated the Lower Court Opinion and started over. Host during that hearing Michael Flynns attorney argued that the u. S. District court judge overstepped his authority and not allowing the Justice Department to submit that case. Do you think the judge, judge sullivan overstepped his authority . Yes and i think the reason that this case is being heard its an unusual posture and that after pleading guilty Michael Flynn the Justice Department is is dismissing the case over that reason the judge is required to give permission to dismiss the case in the Court Ruling Says it would leave the court so he scheduled a hearing to hear more about it but the lawyer for Michael Flynn went to the court of appeals saying he has no discretion. That was yesterday but i think even if the court ultimately decided it really is proper to go the routine route of having the trial judge make the decision if you dont like it otherwise it will run the course preemptively when they sense that a judge is going to rule against them. Host i want to give viewers a sense of what it was like in court yesterday released what it sounded like this hearing streamed on line and we carried on cspan for this is Michael Flynns lawyer said the powell argument a half of in her Opening Statement yesterday but general flynn is a defendant without a prosecutor and litigation without controversy between the actual parties. Instead of promptly granting whats required on the facts as a matter of law at judge sullivan denied to defense motions to one any amicus at all raised perjuring perjuring contempt charges over flynns head and impermissibly went forth to lead it perceived that does the judge indicated the job of United States attorneys otherwise occupied. And adding these unconstitutional burdens of process to punish Michael Flynn judge sullivan discarded any semblance of the unbiased impartial adjudicator this court extolled in the 2019 chapter of the case saga and the cornerstone of any system of justice. Barbara mcquaide some legal terms in there but among it she said general flynn is a defendant without a prosecutor. In our legal system how can a case keep going if the Justice Department a longer wants to prosecute that case . Ordinarily it is the prosecutor who has full discretion and for good reason. Knowing their resources and priorities and factors that a case called crocker and one of the key pieces of language in the case is the prosecution is entitled to a presumption called regularity in the absence of evidence to the contrary. This showed very unusual evidence we do have a case where the evidence is strong. When he starts showing discomfort with pleading guilty to judge us if he so wants to plead guilty many months later and he said yes he does but then when i knew it turn a general comes along it throws out the work of special prosecutors and says we are going to dismiss the case. I think thats a rule that requires permission of the court that the judge should not simply be a robber stamp but should inquire deeper into it. Turning powell who you just heard argued the full compass the rules to prevent harassment and the judge has to serve to protect the public from a corrupt process. Judge sullivan is endeavoring to do this by a hearing. If he should rule against Michael Flynn and against by refusing to dismiss the case is also different posture. The only thing left is to impose a sentence. Happy free to join the discussion youre questions and comments of phone lines are open free to do so. But since so. But since 202 7488001 democrats 202 7488000. Youve heard the backandforth yesterday. How do you think the larger panel of justices or judges i guess will come down in this case. I think based on the questioning most of the hardest questions were for Michael Flynns lawyer. The idea that Michael Flynn had no adequate alternative remedy which is one of the requirements for granting which should be used rarely. Why cant we send this back to judge sullivan lead and make his ruling and they can appeal to this court or the mere fact that a court case says there are a majority of got it wrong and so i think that combination of factors is me a strong feeling that this case will go back to judge sullivan and it will be rejected and that will allow judge sullivan too just on the mechanics of somebody doesnt like whatever the decision comes from this panel of judges will this leave the appeal up to the Supreme Court . This one can. You have to seek permission to go to the Supreme Court did the same a prima cord chooses cases that it thinks percents interesting legal questions or important splits among the circuit that i dont know of hes is that kind of case so would ask permission for the Supreme Court to hear that case. That would further delay things and at the end of the day it could even strategy. Long as you delay things that the election you can make it more politically palatable were to ultimately may be all he wants and reduce even if at judge dismisses the case if he does so without prejudice that means the case could be brought against so in a new presence of estrogen as long as the statute of limitations has not expired and it wont until january of 2022 a could prosecute Michael Flynn and delay and pardon. Are burma quite is joining us by zoom for what appears to be a lovely morning outside of your window in ann arbor michigan are plenty of colors for you this morning diana is in livingston new jersey democrat. Good morning. Hi good morning. I would just like to say that its great that they are going to review the details of this case because there is a lot that ground that has been left out on how the attorney general ms. Portrayed counsel muellers findings and also how flynn, just that he pleaded guilty twice and only until r got appointed did he withdraw his guilty plea. We never got an answer as to why he lied or he thought that he was doing something innocent and legal then why did he lie about it and whats going on with saudi arabia and the arms deal and everything . This needs to be looked at but when judge sullivan are someone said he sold out his country, he really did. He will profit off of this new presidency but if you look around he is righted himself with tax cheats and opportunist people that are over there pro lobbying for russia. Barbara mcquaide you can jump in. I tend to agree. There were a lot of things that are irregular about this and as you mentioned the lies to the fbi and if you read the Mueller Report these conversations with the russians he wasnt freelancing was going back and forth and talking with highlevel members of the Transition Team including Reince Priebus and steve bannon who were in maralago and having these conversations are you spoke to russia on the same day president obama imposed sanctions. I was never to retaliate against russia for interfering with our elections so that raised all kinds of questions not the least of which is that it was undermining the Foreign Policy of the United States. To suggest that lying about that was no big deal is to me astounding so it was a serious crime and it was stated in the motion to dismiss was this wasnt material in any investigation because there was no crime to investigate. Even if there wasnt the fbi had a mission to protect the country against intelligence threats so it had a duty to ask these questions and the idea that this was all just some witchhunt to get Michael Flynn who does not strike me as a credible explanation. On the line for republicans as is franken bayville new york. Good morning. Caller good morning, how are you . Thank you very much for your questions and giving me time on air. My thing is that how come president obama said that flynn and the North Koreans were the two most Dangerous Things that trump could get into his party. Doesnt that to high heaven and number two i think flynn got railroaded here a little bit with the fbi. Nobody is even looking at that. Africanamericans pleaded guilty to a murder because he doesnt want to do 25 years because he has no money. Its the same idea here. I think this is a railroad job in there something going on in this country thats hiding flynn from obama. Flynn hasnt been able to write up of about obama but theres a lot of stuff in his background. Why is obama so afraid of flynn . If youre interested in my response dont know what goes on in the minds of any of these individuals but we know from the facts that Michael Flynn was working on the effort of the government of turkey and failed to notify the United States about that and he wrote an oped that was on behalf of the government in a plea agreement he admitted to not only lying to the fbi but all the illegal conduct with regard to turkey. It may be president obama new that Michael Flynn was dealing with Foreign Government forprofit and feared that he would not be a good public servant