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[inaudible conversations] ladies and gentlemen please give a warm welcome to the stage john meacham. [applause] i hope youre having as much fun as i am. And the best thing to do is a teacher and not the course in here to take these incredible authors to be in a room with them but the only problem with this is that there is somebody in every room. But today there are wonderful people weve all heard from at one point or another written by then most of us have ever heard of but this book is on the space program. American moonshot so be watching for that. And then to have some basement studio and vl john meacham. [laughter] and trying to make the same deal of course the great historian 1919 and john meacham was written so many wonderful biographies and no us from his basement. [laughter] good morning joe but with your favorite historical figure so one or two and why and then other elements. John, start us off with your favorite. The way the question is often phrased is that i used to say jesus. [laughter] but we dont want that. [laughter] mine is an margaret has a familial connection a i wouldnt have to say much. [laughter] there would be very important to me and he was an able writer a good painter a man called the largest human being of our time and my sense is the lesson that i take most of all is that churchill got one thing right if you get one thing right hitler is the one to get right. [laughter] so if churchill had died in 1938 even to get some notices in the New York Times interesting british statesman he changed parties three times he was wrong about gandhi and the Gold Standard but by god when the crisis of the times hit he was right and to my mind it is inarguable that we live in a better brighter world because he rose to power when he did on the tenth of may to become Prime Minister in all my life is in preparation for the battle that i was sure i should not take when roosevelt learned about him being appointed fdr had not worked all week said that cabinet meetings on friday afternoon when he called powell to replace chamberlain and they looked up and said hes the best man england has even it is wrong half the time. [laughter] so with our own great wartime commander in chief thats what it takes i hope they send a case of whiskey 12 Prime Ministers. [laughter] there have been many biographies but you say this is the one to read . One of the reasons he looms so large for me as i read william manchesters book, the first one when i was of a highly impressionable age and Early High School days first of all for future friend evan thomas i love them both so much i read them sequentially so then i was in a Job Interview years later with newsweek at the time and i said i have read your book and we read it evan looked at me and said you must have been a real loser. [laughter] fair enough. So the first point was a portrait of the great victorian summer and the other that people read is called my early life a memoir published in 34 or 35 if you havent seen it is worth playing with where he did portraits of various writers that he knew. One or two favorites . Frozen heroes because i always think they are dangerous and better than everyone else. That there is a risk if you write about them. Yes and i love anything is how human they are. So one of the people that i love is someone i suspect most people dont know about. He is in india in the 16th century with the dynasty that lasted he came from a kingdom in central asia and his father without seeking his pigeons and then broke away at his dear uncles arrived so he became in exile and became fed up and then moving to china and we know this because he wasnt literate was literate in those days was extraordinary and kept a very personal journal and talks about his life and getting fed up and falling in love and then he discovered alcohol and he sounds like a fraternity boy. And they dont tell me how i got home and i got on my horse. [laughter] so you get this extraordinary recounting the which i love and hes not like us. So wherever we went he would build a garden and then he conquered delhi so he talks about his gardens and how beautiful they are and then he says in the next breath she wouldnt pleasure me so i sent her and a few others to be trampled by elephants. [laughter] such a contrast and it reaches across the century with this transition that is just fascinating that there are a great many human beings. Something that we should do is somehow online the readers know. Im not sure if i would like to have had dinner with him and certainly wouldnt want to be trampled by elephants that he is a hero of mine the french essayists who lived during the revolution the most humane person coming out of that and vice versa and he writes is and is literally interested in everything so he starts off a famous essay and he writes about different characters and says have you know how differences is whether people and he wanders off into the flowers then he gets back for two lines and he wanders off to Something Else and its a time when the new world is explored and he keeps saying we keep telling them we are bringing them civilization so he has a wonderful openness and between the two of them i would like to meet them at some point. You have been talking backstage the way they are seen by historians can you talk about that for just a minute . With the historians and biographers historians say biographers go on about people and feelings but they dont understand the context and biographers say they are so unimaginative and they dont understand the living and breathing suffering human being i think we do both good biographers capitulate in their times and good historians understand the people are a part of that we do have a cold war. You are in the middle of the cold war with that divide but food you love to write about would love to read about . I have been doing a lot of panels so it would be easy for me to say roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt those are my stars that i just adore reading about thats another one of my personal favorites but rosa parks. And the reason i picked rosa parks i was born in atlanta when Martin Luther king with my childhood memories of doctor king in atlanta i remember i was one four i was. Subsequently bounced around i had a thing called the magic bus i would see College Students around the country at these history sites that i created for civilrights tours selma and atlanta and montgomery studying civil rights i would go to montgomery and in those days there was no memorials rosa parks one street named after her Jefferson Davis avenue intersected. [laughter] i always wanted to see where she lived on december 1st , 1955 with the montgomery bus boycott was the mother of the movement. The most decrepit underfunded Housing Project she was living in in a room without exaggerating the home was the size of the stage. Even with her husband raymond in this impoverished the level was so high she didnt go to college she went to the Industrial School for girls with a tight Home Economics and those days and one of the Industrial Schools. And then she worked her way back as a secretary for the naacp for no money. Nixon was the big kingpin of the railroad and she would file all the paperwork but i couldnt believe nobody had written a serious book about her i am not kidding you 200 books on doctor king. 200. Nothing on rosa parks so i decided i would write the biography of rosa parks and i reached out and her person said we would like it to be an africanamerican woman. Im not that. [laughter] i brought three of my books to her and my credentials and that night i was walking back to the car in dc where i was staying she called and said i didnt like hearing myself call you that your good historian i will have you spend time with mrs. Parks. I started to go with her i was with her when she got her congressional gold medal with a wheelchair i would stay with her on eighth street in Dupont Circle at her home in washington went with her to Beverly Hills and i went to detroit to see the underground railroad in her apartment overlooked a river on the exact ground of Frederick Douglass and i spent time with her and i found old Montgomery Advertiser newspapers and show them to her she used to say we would drink that because she had a frame of mind only to say the same thing from december 1, 55 turning out to be an amazing woman and during world war ii trying to get africanamerican kids to go to libraries it would even let montgomery get a book in the Public Library she sued them for the right to vote for women that were raped in alabama and it was covered up in her day i started to realize everything about her was the Episcopalian Church later in life she went to japan and adopted buddhism with her christianity. She used to tell me im mixedrace im scottish and irish in cherokee, and she would rattle them off so by getting the opportunity while i turn that into my publisher your the biographer what is it . There isnt one. [laughter] she would take care of it the reason why montgomery did the afterschool programs and teach people and dressed to the nines and never swore, the only agreement is that i would let her read the book before publication when the final galley was done just for her no editorial comment she called me and my wife and the kids were born and said i have one thing that you call my husband raymond a heavy drinker. Not an alcoholic it was generational and she didnt like that term. So that was one of those things there are disadvantages about writing about a living because you dont want to hurt them but this experience for me uplifted my life 11, 13, 14 yearold they all studied rosa parks in school i get to go there and say you can make a difference. Stand up for what you believe and stand up and great people can be everyday people and i think its important to remember president and World Leaders and mrs. Parks is a great lesson. Thats a great story. As i think of the influence on young people for all historians one way is also through fiction or movies those are badly distorted like Hidden Figures it was an inspiring story that none of us knew then you think that has been wonderfully displayed bringing that person to life otherwise we would not have known them. There is very much an example right now. I worked for mrs. Graham. Like when Lyndon Johnson was in vietnam and there were helicopters on the tarmac and the fbi said thats not your helicopter mr. President. [laughter] we all worked for mrs. Graham. [laughter] and we closed on saturday night and in washington and an item in the front of the magazine that was woefully wrong. On monday morning he said he was not pleased with this and i happen to be in his office that morning and got the call from the senator and now i think of it as meryl streep and charmingly and effectively who said im sorry but thats was to be just the first rough draft of history and then in the voice ive heard does it have to be so fucking rough. [laughter] that captured her. Roses here. And how much she would have loved. That she was cut out and was not in the movie of all the president s men of the needed correction of the record. Those that have a wonderful historical portrait of the nove novel . Yes so to decide the historical figure is not interesting enough saying to someone the other day robin hood with Kevin Costner he comes out as a deeply caring feminist man which is unconvincing given the times and made marian is that social feminist and when we try to recover people one of the really good things in history but people we have forgotten about an womens history which even not even used to be a subject and the woman codebreakers and then they are not recognized. And for some reason they did not Pay Attention come from the social class and a wanderer biographer biography be in written and the full understanding of tutor england. And she has unlike some historical novelist has kept to the historical record to use and use it and imagine beyond it. I think the book is almost always better than the movie. With the siren sophies choice they were both tremendous. And like to kill a mockingbird. It does happen and thats a very happy moment i thought the movie was good. Talk about Hidden Figures in history and that you do discover some under figures with roosevelt and then the person i should be writing about is someone i recently find that and that under some personal and then feeding rachel carson. And while. So how is he getting this information . He was a member of the Wilderness Society in 1935 and started to go all over the country writing these books and essay after essay and became the leading stopgap environmental with the Arctic Refuge in alaska but the Supreme Court justice to tell eisenhower they werent friends and say we have to save this spot but the person that we have an obligation is a wonderful introductory with the volume and world war i and the book that influence me and when i became part of this establishment are to be part of the new york or Arthur Schlesinger junior. That he would never be in the pantheon of greats. What are you gavel in four . It used to annoying me to no end and other care whack books so i started a campaign and the library of america so now we have two volumes in their and Frederick Douglass and in the american pantheon i would like to do that but then those that cant go home again. That still a very potent voice. Who would you like to write about now . So i am completely interested if theres someone you like to write about. No publisher would ever say that. Not in california. You are in cynical california. The ivory tower people. For any number of events with a fantasy bucket list i am fascinated with the attack on pearl harbor and fdr did not move until germany moved against us on the 11th suddenly he was terrified and those keep fdr fighting the european war and then one of the three mistakes to escape from dunkirk and the soviet union june 41 and unilaterally my sense and wondering into history to take any one of those mistakes away and the outcome of the war could have been different and that contribution and then his five days in london is the basis. And the screenwriters make it more interesting. So they had the good sense in terms of his language i bet 75 percent is from his letters and speeches and from him. And it is a good idea it. But just to digress and then talking about one part of it. And those that have seen darkest hour he couldve had another round. But even then probably not. Its like the bible. Thats point of view. Anyone you would love to write about if you were deciding . We already had regular biographies. So weve always been fascinated by roosevelt. And there is a wonderful biography so i do find them fascinating. And then must be one of the most Difficult People to be married to. I wanted to a biography years ago. But they had many affairs and traveled around the world but his wife cut. That nobody knows about him. And they have that way of looking and thinking. And to say no, we just dont think it will sell and they are absolutely right. And then you have to live with the person. So someone that i knew and i had a father who was equally strange. And there is part of that saudi family still. And this very nice woman said i came to hate him so much it was putting it out of my resume my misery it was so painful to write. So thats like choosing a partner. Maybe if it someone you are writing about so how do you do that . And someone that youre not happy that you found. Let me comment but for example it is intimidating and with a conference is amazing. And Theodore Roosevelt there have been written so much with Theodore Roosevelt easy to be intimidated. And with the amazing three volumes there is a lot of material. Those that do not have the big biography. And i have done much president ial history. Or James Madison that is a big one. James monroe and to have a third term he could have had and there is a lot that can be done with monroe and in the modern context i am aghast theres not a biography on chavez. Park said highways and mass monuments in california, everything yet nobody has invested in the life and times of chavez. So forget it i would like to write about washington but im intimidated there is so much i would take off like George Washington at valley forge with the american memory im not so good in the revolutionary war. So sometimes stupid units or a piece of it. The biggest threat that what we do broadly put that it is now so good in the case of the regulation the monopoly of the networks and it turns out there is an enormous amount of talent i try to write short books worried about mission creep. However long it takes people to read a single blood, that time by and large is british crying dramas. Him if you are watching really good British Crime dramas . Acorn tv . Do this on subscribe . How many find yourself talking to friends that about reading the what youre watching . That definitely happens. How many find yourself listening to books as much as reading . That is a preview of a writer you have books that have now been read do you care if somebody read your book or listens . No. My work is done once you pay for it. [laughter] Margaret Atwood put it is like a child i send it out to the world and its on its own i have started out the loving mother. But i know what she means. You can do anything with it. To say you should have done this is done that and went to send me will change it. After they have published it. That someone bringing me books on tape to sign, i like to sign the book. I. C. E. To work as the night manager in washington dc and then i worked for a great novelist i was about collector i would go to estate sales that even now i collect first editions so thats what i like the books on tape i understand that. Usually it is memoirs into Rice University for theres nothing like a tangible book in the hands. Do you have any provision of choice of the narrator . We have the same editor. [laughter] so i could not choose them but i got to consult so i listened to the focus Group Students to the four layers and we all agreed on the one we like the best and we had a dream narrator and let Sam Waterston read it. If you want connecticut i will give you connecticut. I was lucky. Ed herman read one of mine i love ed but he was confusing people. But then they came up and said how much you love truman and the young Theodore Roosevelt. [laughter] try being Doug Brinkley everybody calls you david brinkley. What were sam and cokie really like . So the books on madison avenue to do a really Nice Home Party for me. And then to sit with d atchison and then what is walter cronkite. I watched him come to my book signing with dean atchison and then when he got up to me he said that was a wonderful time we had sailing together. [laughter] he thought i was david son. [laughter] so as you write about grant your hamilton points he thinks im raunchier now. [laughter] i like my rapid musical also. [laughter] if you walk up to the airport somebody that pays no attention anymore and then the great jim baker story. For attorney general the time he was on the ballot lost he was on his way out that friday after the election and oh boy walks up to him and says you know you look a lot like baker . Doesnt that just passed you off . [laughter] we will never be best off by this terrific panel. [applause] [inaudible conversations] cnn is not a free press and bc is not a free press New York Times is not a free press. A free press is a press not pushing the ideological agenda, or in the back pocket pocket of one party or another or pushing social activism even if its Climate Change most are browbeating with their leftwing agenda. And so forth. Thats not freedom of the press its on the internet and with news people all over the world. The difference between the modern media today and the Patriot Media is the Patriot Media and the Printing Press with the pamphlets that is it they are trying to fundamentally transform with Representative Government so today the press not the government and Civil Society and the individual. And for what the press is supposed to be when is the last time the near times is helpful to the president of the United States . One time that was negative on nancy pelosi . This president and those that support them every day they did it before he was elected and since the election and today. Not surface level book and where is it important . Look at the evidence it is overwhelming. Its all one way. Like and how the American People look at the press 80 percent dont trust it and then the social activism like meeting on meet the press for he says we wont do Climate Change anymore i said who the hell is this guy . Is he smart . Does have a background in the subject . Is he a hack . Yes. Physicist and phds climatology and meteorology so now they are banned from going on meet the press because we are Climate Change deniers anybody deny there is Climate Change there is a son up there. [applause] people are looking for answers people are working for arguments but when im trying to generate as part of the reagan revolution the Tea Party Revolution the Article Five Convention states. [applause] and what we try to do now with the duly elected president of the United States and this explains who they are because they are political and to get the freedom of the press back and that is what this book is about. I was thinking when i read your book given the opportunity. I wish i thought of it. It became apparent i thank you had an opportunity may be more than once to sit with our president and talk with our president. But having met with them. I dont meet with them that often and i will tell you this is a very smart man he knows whats going on nothing like hes portrayed in the media if you look at him compared to biden it is a joke. [laughter] so i will tell you this in the republican primaries were a ruse and the general election is support the president and im glad i did. [applause] a lot of his positions are so solid if we could have withstood what he is a standing. [applause] and we are extremely fortunate that where he stands between us between us and his family. [applause] and are taking more than anyone has to take it is outrageous with pelosi and her husband get away with over the chairman of these committees get away with and that went to defend this republican constitution it and with the president of the United States. Thats a good point bill bar our new attorney general do you think as you were chief of staff do you think the attorney general be successful all that went on behind the scenes with the fbi . With the truth of what actually happened . I cannot be more proud of attorney general bar. [applause] he didnt have to take this job. Hed been attorney general before and was enormously successful. And could have gone off to the villages. [laughter] but he didnt. And he is coolheaded and they will hold him in contempt . Is this a joke . I hold them in contempt by the way. Cannot need to vote for them in contempt. He is a man of the law of the Bush Administration but he sees we have a rogue house of representatives in a rogue Committee Chairman to have one objective and to have sex committees using government paid for staff using tax dollars to the Opposition Research organization as when they want the taxes in the bank records and then he challenges them and to sue them and go to court and say thats obstruction of justice. [laughter] this is like the dumbest house of representatives ever. [laughter] [applause]

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