Transcripts For CSPAN2 Eric K. Washington Boss Of The Grips 20240713

Good evening, good evening, and welcome you can go ahead and clap, thats okay. [applause] welcome to the center for research and black culture where were dedicate today the collection, preservation and interpretation of global black experiences. Im novella ford, for public exhibitions. Thank you for joining us for the conversation with eric k. Washington, and author of the life of James H Williams and the red caps. This program is hosted in conjunction with ballot for harlem. If you havent had a chance to look at the exhibition, it will be up until the end of december, but there are all things inside the exhibition i think youll hear about tonight and also might feed your own historical knowledge about harlem. A ballot for harlem exams strands of black place making in the 20th century, offering to community, innovation, education, political engagement, cultural affirmation, Global Perspectives and creativity. And the exhibition i was mentioning earlier, highlights include the brotherhood of sleeping car porters, the first union for black workers, the Pullman Porters and selections from ruby d and ozzie daves collection which we acquires. Items from ann petrys archives and so much more. We have two more ballot for harlem conversations coming up save the date. On november 13th we will be having a conversation about sculptor augusta savage, and that event is on november 13th at 6 30. The other event is taking place in december and its a conversation about making community. And were talking about barber shops, how they are a convening force in the black community and were hosting that program in partnership with bands presentation of barbershop chronicles by a british play write, a story about fatherson relationships set to a beat and score. So much is happening here at the Schomburg Center. And pick this up, its got a beautiful picture of Toni Morrison on the cover and register all all of our events. And silence your cell phones and let me remind you we will have a book signing following the conversation. Eric k. Washington is a new york city based independent historian and author, the owner of tagging the past, which he ever endeavors to connect to unsung areas of upper manhattan and exhibitions, at the Civil Rights Museum and city college. His interpretive signage which won the Municipal Arts Society master arts award celebrates the waterfront of manhattanville, and erics current book published by a division of ww norton that grew out of columbia universitys Scholarship Program and levi center for biography and a residency at msah door mar house. The new book boss of the grits, lives of James H Williams and red caps of Grand Central terminal. A once a harlem based black work force at americas most august railroad station whose individuals often infused the life blood of the new Negro Movement and harlem renaissance of the 1920s. Well hear first from eric and then he and i will sit down and have a conversation. Please welcome eric k. Washington to the podium. [applause]. Thank you, thank you and thank you, Schomburg Center for a search in black culture for being the stewards of such an incredible collection that was involu involume invaluable to my research on this book. Im going to plunge in and then well talk. So on the evening of september 14th, 1909, James H Williams summoned a throng of red cap to Grand Central to west 53rd street. Despite the growing exodus to harlem, this street in todays Hells Kitchen was still a hub of black life. Williams had only recently been promoted to supervise these men as a chief attendant. This category name attendant was rarely used by travelers and it was by their conspicuous head gear called red caps. This seemed more formal. Williams summoned this em to a church for the Beneficial Association of Grand Central terminal. At Grand Central a number of occupational and emotional distresses gathered the red caps fully around Railroad Service while construction crews built up the terminal complex around the old station. A fatal station accident claimed one of williams men the month before. As officers of the new Mutual Aid Society the man duly elected chief wanes as president and his assistant chief samuel babel then studying for the occupation of thrust them into history as sergeant at arms. This 1990 incident paints a telling picture of the nascent paternal and grassrootsbased labor force that james h h. Williams built up for Grand Central station for was distinct, the brotherhood of sleeping car porters which was founded in 1925 which in turn would inspire the red caps own similar National Union movement in 1937. In the decades long span of williams tenure we glimpse the breadth of the red caps impact on both Grand Central and greater harlem. The best way to introduce williams is to start by reading something from the introduction. Nuke cities Grand Central terminal is a rightly celebrated Tour De Force the captivate the traveling public more than a century. Open on february 2, 1913, the Worlds Largest railroad station was built by the american firms lead in stem, and ward and whitmore. Showcase a host of of such artistic house as whose monumental sculpture of hercules, mercury and minerva above a tiffany clock crowns the buildings entry. And whose painted ceiling transports a mind wandering traveler to the blue heavens. Many regarded it as a fighter example of civic planning in new york. At once at architectural confection and a masterwork of innovative design and engineering. Yet the sublimest of Grand Central terminal tennessee pink marble concourses, its cascading ramps and stairs and opulent shouters, belies its once essential operating model, the servitude of African American workers. The servitude in this case was rooted in the american tradition of racial exploitation. Northerners might comfortably regarded their territory as a historically enlightened refuge from the harsh segregation practices of the south, or of aa bygone era. However, 20thcentury newark city at apple evidence of its own jim crow policies, notably at Grand Central. The stations tightly run system deployed a a singular core a bk man in red caps as baggage porters. Who at times numbered in the summer hundreds. The nature of the porters works observed in the new yorker tends to put them in the class with beasts of burden. Indeed, throughout the muslim concourses a porters often backbreaking intervening labor was integral both to the stations functional efficiency and to its glamorous ambience. It was perhaps inevitable that Grand Central red caps porters system became the model for numerous railroad stations across the nation. Made categorically identifiable both by their apparel and by their complexion, the black workforce at Grand Central embodied americas colorblind, the laws, bylaws, amendments, and social attitudes that closed doors to blacks. In the United States the columbine was a deepseated cultural contrivance that had festered for generations. It was a panoply of contradictions. At times one fill its prohibitions only intuitively, yet they were as palpable as a taut rope. It could be woven into the collective subconscious by social mores or by deliberate legislative acts. But blacks also found ways to circumvent and mitigate impasses created when whites directed to come along. They bent and reconfigured it into opportunities, positions of leverage. Such was the case at Grand Central whether colorblind afford a black black workers the means, preferably speaking, to make away out of no way proverbially speaking. Read capping worse force is one most iconic Service Opportunities at the last century. It originated at the Grand Central depot in 1895 with a dozen white step but had become exclusively black by making or five. A source of pride, the job was coveted by an almost invariably associate with african men. Where as educated white shove the working to low in steps, educated blacks recommend as rare propitious employment option and an air of rigid racial barriers. At Grand Central African American College Students read capping as a means to pay their way through school. Man to create this opportunity for securing a foothold for professional and social advancement was james h. Williams a single individual whose history Grand Central from the steeped in urban legend. Board formally enslaved African American parents in 1870, williams broke the color line of Grand Central white redcap attendance at 1903. Upon his sign the form of public reminder that attendance are not porters to carry baggage or rather were on to assist station passengers became taken on a new definition. Starting in 1909 will use serve as a chief attended or cheap order or chief redcap of Grand Central terminal, its first and most notable africanamerican officer, and would make it the position until his death in 1948. In this capacity he embodied a unique juncture between lack and white america. His influential 45 year tenure with the munch of the railroad station that only a gateway to americas greatest city but, just as much, i gateway to the nations greatest africanamerican neighborhood, harlem. For nearly half a century chief william supervise the staff of bent over relegated by race to the lotus status of the of thes workforce though they were integral to the rewards system. Like the real roaming can, the sleeping car or Pullman Porters were also africanamerican, the station and red caps are crucial to the swiss watch precision of the terminal and woven into the beguiling experience of early 20thcentury river travel. Williams life coincided with key periods in the evolving social and cultural world of African Americans living in the everchanging metropolis of new york city. His experiences off a window postcivil war america and the heady optimism of the reconstruction era, we follow williams as a race that they use active if unassuming agent of the 20th century ideological cause of racial uplift which strove to quell white prejudice to blacks of the improvement in education, business, labor, citrus and the arts that in the making \20{l1}s{l0}\20{l1}s{l} would fuel the new Negro Movement and the harlem renaissance. We follow him through two world wars. It was williams who ingeniously transformed an upwardly self basin tap into the coveted employment opportunity. As a nuke Herald Tribune would observe, williams chiefdom ushered scores a promising but fiscally strapped young black college in on their way to a mortarboard by working under a redcap as luggage porters. Many were greek lettered men, a prime example of the countless social networks that plaques form for themselves when theyrr categorically barred as persona non grata from white fraternities and other private white institutions. The academic credentials notwithstanding, these black greeks as was their unschooled brothers of the race worked as an salaried laborers. They were ubiquitous throughout the terminals opulent concourses, keeping trunks and the leases, type with satchels and fats and toting the golf clubs and hat boxes a bustling travelers whom they depended upon for tips. While this story is about race and labor, it is also our woman about crystal into scum resourcefulness of b. Over the course of his life, American World under some of the most seismic shifts in its history. As the new york central relatively ushered statesman, movie stars, society early, sports heroes, high clergy and other notables to win from trains with marginal visibility. But he stood at conspicuous among africanamericans as the chief, who created a platform to employ black men, to sustain black students and to showcase the race in the most admirable light. In this capacity as the boss of the grips, grips being a term applied to both baggage handlers, he was part of the Central Nervous system of harlem renaissance, the storied era. Theres also a renaissance of vibrant business and industry as ancillary race enterprises as well as in spirited African American labor and civic movements in which chief williams was noted. While harlem mikes admired him as a forthright advocate and powerbroker for their community, williams generally touched others. The day after he died, the journalist earl brett had to go to chicago so headed down to Grand Central for a ticket. Boarding that cracked me up to chicago train which took central advertise as the most famous train in the world, anticipated the site of chief williams at the gate. On the main concourse brown met some old conference. He knew from when he had redcap from a somewhat from school. The vast woodruff passengers were not going to chicago didnt know about williams death and did not miss a step. But brown and maybe some of the caps saw couple of strangers here two old white passengers, friends of the chief, said the read about his death in the morning paper. They were crying. So i wondered who was this black man whose passing elicited of y grief among both friends and strangers . Facing the life of james h was in has been a dog of a faceting task of the intrusive nature of his job rendered him nearly ephemeral but not invisible. Though he was not a man of letters, english and observations of others, and in the chronicles of his times, he takes shapes, fleshes out in briefs. [applause] thank you. So that was just the introduction, you all ready know what you have to do at the end of this program. Two points. One, ill ill be calling chief williams chief williams both as that was a title he carried and also i wanted to take a moment to give a special shout out and takes to Margaret Edwards who is the great, great granddaughter of chief williams who is here today. So [applause] thank you for joining us so very much. So part of your bio as was what i found in the book is that you have an amazing job of illuminating existence of everyday people, and the impact of the work on society. You say in the intro that its a document faceting task. Howd you on earth and develop this rich composition of the manlike chief williams in the absence of a formal archive . In many ways. Sometimes the easy part is finding the names and funny then repeated in newspaper articles or citations, in somebody elses document or whatever. Sometimes its just a name on the list of people who attended a a gathering, a party or a meeting, and im with is people like i might just like them and say i wonder who that person was . And see if they are somebody or anybody. More often than not when youre searching for someone or something you dont miss it but which are looking for ride with what you find Something Else that catches your attention. In that way i think there are different strategies and sort of nonstrategies for digging up and find the people who are just kind of everyday people. The black press was is goodt that sort of thing. They were constantly listing peoples names, telling stories that maybe you should know. Yeah, the black press, i mean, one of the things that was great was having access to databases and looking through main street press also but the black press, particularly when it was a gathering or an event. There seem to be this, where everybody is listed who didnt necessarily these of the people who were there. At first you might feel like why are we mentioning them . But then its like maybe the adage is no else mentioned them, so i was really great because i can go back to stories ive read over again, particularly it was a huge gathering and listed everybody and go back and see now that i become fluent with some some of the names, like i would interrupt that meeting, that dinner . So that was very, very useful just having a lot of these names kind of go for. Some i had to find other ways of inet who those people were to look interesting. Chief williams parents were part of the wave of migration to new york during reconstruction. The population in new york swelled to over 19,000 by 1880. Loss of the grips is not only a part of it i think of chief williams also offers a mask of new york in the late 18,191st. Talk about a black mayors that to help develop chief williams. His parents, there were both enslaved in virginia, the same county. I have come across any evidence they knew one another there. It seems they probably met in new york. The freedmans bank records which are very useful, there were two, i use one in the book, one from 1872 where hes in virginia, and it was said he was a runaway from slavery. After the war he had family and went back to virginia and use hotel waiter in oh, gosh, norwalk virginia . Nor folk connecticut or the other way around . [inaudible] so he was in virginia. Then the next year hes in new york working at this posh hotel in new york but hes living in a very nonposh address, one of the many little africas and whats today Greenwich Village. It was Greenwich Village and then also but it is one of areas of the village on thompson street that was the subject of jacobs investigations and one of the really troubled areas. It was clear, it was an interesting dichotomy where he had just gotten to new york. Thats where he landed, make connection or whatever but worked at this really, really posh address on 29th street and broadway which is the hotel and Theater Center of the city at the time before it moved up to the times square area. In 1873, he still appears to be, he appeared to be just kind of getting established their buddies in this sort of wonderful surround a lot of people who like himself of come up from the south, to the big city to new york and then i think he meets his wife, lucyn new york and they married. These are his parents and a startup telling about them is because i thought it was important to just give an idea of he was a native new yorker, born on 50 straight and what steps the posh neighborhood of chelsea but then it was part of neighborhood known as the tenderloin. It was one of the high crime but maybe fun neighborhood. It was known for a lot of like clubs and red light district and everything. And everything that comes with that. At that time, or teens become anything but 14 street was considered uptown. Was pretty much until the turn of last century around 1900, references to opt out or like about 14 street which gives you an idea of how the city was moving upward. Not to say people didnt live farther away, but the centers of the city, the businesses in commercial enterprises, hotels and things like that were all come you could see them migrating, and this was kind of a ways to go. Most people were still coming from being a sconce further downtown. And tenderloin also included harold square, right . The tenderloin is one of those amorphous communities that is more or less like Hells Kitchen would been part of that, the northern end of it. Like 15th street or James Williams was born, sort of the southern end, and where it is west going towards the river or the railroad tracks, and then east, it kind of dissolved and becomes a bit nicer around the bride broadway area which is very commercial. One of the things interesting about williams as a gets, as he came into his adulthood and is working and lives on 28 street, hes living in the posh area offbroadway. Only a couple blocks away is a black belt as its called. Its very walkable, within ten minutes but its contrast in feeling. Talk more about that particular florist because i feel like the work that chief williams is doing at that time really groomed him for the work he would be doing at Grand Central station. Charles thorley is another fascinating figure. He was one of the principal florists and they become most favorite floors of the gilded age, of the elite, of new york. Its that really clear when it began but certainly around at least the turn of last century around 1900 when williams was working for him as a florist messenger. Hes known for hiring especially africanamericans, which is very, very convenient because jobs are hard to get and hes kind of a big, hulking, rough guide. Doesnt look like he would be in the flower business. Probably look like someone who would kill flowers just by looking at them. He was a sports manager, particularly oxime, but he was an artist that what he did. Everybody liked him. The other major floors as well but this is one of the things that the Africanamerican Community in new york always considered him a friend. He would cater events not only for the elite but as when harlan started taking hold in the early years, he would cater those events as well, decorate them with flowers. He was known for fair play and giving a square deal, and a lot of people like williams and even Langston Hughes for him. He fired Langston Hughes. This was sort of in the later years i think he died the next year actually. It wasnt langston fault. Really one of the few people, he was very influential. He was a tammany guy. Get a lot of poll, and it was probably he who made introductions to the admin at Grand Central to get James Williams his job which integrated the forces. Wesley williams when he became new york citys combat has first like firemen credits thorley specifically as having been the most important letters were written by the likes of Teddy Roosevelt as well but thorley, wesley, you know, really doted upon, appreciatively about that recommendation. So James Williams was with thorley at a a really key time just before going to Grand Central when thorley do this other incredible thing where he owned property and he bought this really remote piece of property, really way uptown bike out of the 42nd street where he crossed broadway and Seventh Avenue 140 second street. Although hotel, the pabst hotel downtown. He sold that property to the new york times, and in 1902 and the times, it became times square. One of the deals was that in the lease his name had to appear on the building, and it remained there for many, many years. The building has all been stripped away now. Williams was witness to all of that. Thorley also was in charge of the declarations at madison sq. , gardens. Was at different location then, for when insanity of prussia visited new york in 1902, and it was one of the biggest events for america to making a a tourf several american cities, and comes to new york. Everyone who even the slightest extraction of german heritage without the leader hose, whatever they had. It turned out prince henry was really enthralled african, negro spirituals as a recall been because the thing is when their first tour of europe was in 1871, facing at his house, the royal palace. He was a boy then and it never got in over 20 became this real big advocate for black culture wanted to know more. Thorley was in charge of the declarations but is also one of those people who is very sort of about fair place i did have to do the decorations and self so we had a staff to it which meant that he put one of williams coworkers in charge, and the prince was so impressed that he asked him to come back to europe with him and that great his state room and the palace and then sent him back with a diamond watch everything. These kinds of things really affected James Williams coming of age. Meeting these people, it was like an apprenticeship where youre according to do deal with people important what people want, what their tastes are. Much of this hes learning just by being able to read the ledgers, seeing what people are ordering. What occasions theyre giving flowers for and what kind of flowers. All of these are really informing who he is to become so when he gets to position a Grand Central, hes not just toting backs. Hes also something of a diplomat. You get that feeling about him throughout the book. You talk back and not being sort of a talker, or statuesque. There was something about him the command presence no matter who he was in conversation with or working with. Some of the resource we have at the Schomberg Center is our archives but we have digital exhibitions and we have one black new yorkers. In one of the section is called migration in new neighborhoods. Im going to read a portion of that which helped set up this next question. It is as important as it was in the black migration was dork by the immigration of europeans multifrom ireland, germany and italy. In new york irish and italian immigrants displays numerous africanamericans as domestics, laborers and unskilled positions which we see between 18901910 and the largest increase in the black population at that particular time, so one increase was 24 , next year 66 , or the next iteration with 66 . Thats what an talk but in terms of the increase in the black population at that time. It goes on to say segregation and discrimination became more in battle. Black new yorkers themselves in innercity they continue to bargain for most skilled jobs. Segregated than in poor neighborhoods and forbade them in treatment to many public spaces. They were denied work as longshoremen, street cleaners, package handlers, c med carriers, garment workers. Africanamericans fought back. In the telling of the strip of the red caps and chief williams we see the unveiling of the newly built Grand Central station. We also are learning a lot about jim crow north. How do these moments influence james h. Williams and the position he eventually takes . Its true what a lot of the traditionally service positions, blacks had hold on there were relegated to these positions toward the end of 19th century theyre starting starting to lose a lot of these positions because party old american story, so theres come now that there are other whites coming in court unrooted and need work on a lot of people are feeling more comfortable hiring them. One of the things that really tips that is the right in 1900, the westside riots which were so horrific, a number of levels but on one particular it wasnt just that mobs of whites were snatching innocent people out of their homes, out of their businesses, off street, but that they were battled by the police officers. It catalyzed a lot of black community but whites as well in protest. The news was carried across the country and people were so shame and disgusted by this moment that it sort of aided or egg a lot of performers to start offering jobs. These were still bottom of the rung jobs but one of the main proponents, loudest voices of protest against the actions of the police and the Justice System that they thought were whitewashing what had happened was this reverend wh brooks from st. Marks methodist church. One of the things he said those in the paper, i imagine that williams either was there at the meeting or he wouldnt read himself or heard it was that we may not get the job to want but lets get come take the jobs we can get. The implication being well, work with this and see what happens. Williams did just that. Perhaps this was, if thorley was one who made the recommendation because he would not have been hired at Grand Central without the highest recommendation from whoever it came from. That just wouldnt have happened. As he gets in and the job immediately shifts to being all black, there was no protest that i came across, which is often the case when blacks into the workplace, that was predominantly white, so i get the impression that it was a planned change. So there was match up with a pullman were already all black. It gives them james, this opportunity to really turn this into Something Else. Part of the strategy unlike the Pullman Porters who several years later were organized, union, the strategy for organized labor for it i think is the organization is getting the job, you know, getting the work. We will own and do something. Of the strategy i think was establishing visibility. He does an number of ways over the decades by organizing an orchestra among a lot of the red caps because a lot of them are musical. They end up recording and playing, represent the naacp on tour and he organizes the baseball team. He does all of these things that makes and not only themselves public figures as africanamericans but they are carrying the moniker of central so there representing Grand Central terminal as well. So anyone is going up in and around new york in the first half of the 20 century and you think Grand Central and are traveling by train, they are not just sort of this and other ancillary part. This is part of how you envision travel. They are part of that. This is also very special set of people that Grand Central wanted to put at the because they realized that the women needed support when catching the train, they need someone to help them with their bags and so they thought it was also make them stand out. The other side of that is this is a fairly well tipped position. I remember reading in the book, for instance, samuel battle talks about making like 300 a month, whereas on average people mightve made 32 a month, okay, well talk about a lot of money at that particular time. This idea, a cold one. The Grand Central station sugar hill the vandevelde avenue taxi entrance which is a testament to how connected was to harlem. The roots were all there, and that was the most lucrative station to be working at Grand Central, so it represent what should have represent to harlem. It was interesting because when they started out when it was a dozen white workers and most were bilingual and they spoke french, german, spanish, danish, it was kind of a novel idea. They were very concerned about single women travelers being assaulted by bunco men. Not a term i know anymore but it means it was all very noble but it was also interesting because in all the advertisements they reminded the public, the traveling public, that no tipping was necessary, these men are all on staff. I think its hard in our generation to appreciate, most of us are used to tipping. We take it for granted. Its just something we do. This was really controversial at the end of the 19th century. A lot of people just felt like tipping is just like repulsive. I think by switching the staff from all white to all black, i think our culture, where the white red caps represented sort of gallantry, and i mean like the knight in shining armor. You dont tip a night. We are used to tipping blacks and i think that kind of resulted. It was an incident in 1905, blacks on staff were still fairly fresh, you know, and so they were not always make a lot of money. You really had to hustle and turn on the charm. One of the superintendents was outraged. It sounded like from the account he was not also outraged that y were taking tips but they were so successful at it. So like battle notes he was able to save three or 400 a month. Its like how did you do that, you know . So where situate right now at the intersection of 135th street and lenox avenue, also known as malcolm x boulevard and two names jewelry mentioned Leslie Williams and samuel battle junior. Can you tell us what each of those meant and also the relationship to chief williams . Wesley williams allstar with battles. Battle was assistant chief, attendant under James Williams. In 1990 he started studying for the exam to become police officer, which he succeeded in doing in 1911 and he became new york city First Black Police officer. He was a red caps while he was doing this and this was groundbreaking. He was also i think something of a mentor to wesley who was much younger, young enough to be his own son. Williams and battle were very, very close, they were both elks brothers in Manhattan Lodge number 45 which was the first socalled colored elks in manhattan. And they were often in charge of helping organize a lot of the big functions for the elks clubs. Booking the acts and collecting the funds and what have you. So by the time i guess seven by eight years past, and i guess there is another black firemen from queens, john woodson, and manhattan doesnt have one. Time is really right for this. Wesley williams, chief williams son who is coming of age now, and hes a superman. Theres a picture i have in the book and you can see, he is stunning. I dont member the phrase but he was one of the people you just kind of like, you know, wondering why didnt get snatched up by hollywood or Something Like that. He did an exhibition, weightlifting. He was an allaround athlete. As this discussion was taking place, it was kind of an obvious choice that chief williams son is come hes a perfect example, the perfect one to get it. It was not without some pushback though because hes black, and this is where a lot of chief williams own influence, his personal friends are able to say my son is a candidate, you know, can you write a letter, you know, eddie . Charles thorley, and others like that. And if successful so 1919100 years ago Wesley Williams becomes manhattans first black firemen. In any profile or often any mention of chief williams, hes mentioned alongside of not only so many of the students who have come through the system but particularly these two most famous black Civil Servants in new york, sam battle, or jesse battle as his bestknown, and his own son Wesley Williams. They are almost always mention in same breath, if theyre talking to chief williams at any length. He actually supersedes him at some point as being chief williams. Gap because not only can wesley is not only manhattans first black firemen and the Fire Department is very, very slow in integrating, as opposed to the Police Department which did a little better, but also becomes in 1927 the first black fire lieutenant. And in 1933 the first five black captain ed and 38 the First Battalion chief, black fire battalion chief. He had been the only for a very long time. And by 1938, obviously his dad is getting on, and hes got fame of his own. Its about this time that he starting to eclipse wesley has is always spoken of as his father son. Often the chief williams is being referred to as the father of the other chief. Right. So i grew up which is kind of perfect. At some point, thats what you are working towards i think, right . So i i come from a family of y father was a Pullman Porter. He passed when i was about seven years old but i know what it means to know a Family Member in that kind of way. We were thick as these. But my father worked for the railroad. Several of my aunts and all to work for railroad so there was appointed time where you could ride the railroad for free because they work for amtrak, then you write for discount, d then as a College Student you are like i want to spend this money . Does this make sense and it did make sense of that particular time, but one of the tips of my grandmother and my aunt would often tell me, and my uncles and father would be, when you get to the station, find a red cap. Because red caps new the time of all the trains, what gave it would take it off at. They could take you down to the tracks much sooner. They could get you on a train with no fuss before everybody else was getting through, getting to the gates. It was a wonderful thing even up until im not sure now because we dont travel by train as much, but at least up until early 2000s, a red cap is where it was at. Thats what that in a station no matter what station that was part of the Job Description that are often described as walking encyclopedias. Part of the original Job Description with the caveat there were only supposed to assist, not supposed to be laden with all your burdens. That didnt last very long as it wouldnt. If im tuckered out and out all the stuff and so it looks like they might be able to take my load, you are getting it. But the difference was when they were black red caps it was expected also, and he was part of what you knew you needed to do to make the traveler feel it was worth their while, that you are a lifesaver. Unit only knew everything, like how to get to the ballpark or what hotels were in town or where they could freshen up or whatever, but carry bags. In the visual culture of American Travel and you see red caps being depicted, they are almost always seem to be carrying golf clubs. I dont know that much about golf, whether there was a particular time when there was this golf craze but everyone many women, just like i know my father had golf clubs in the house. They are heavy and that with all of the this was not an easy job. But aside from all that you expected to have information and be able to make suggestions. Because of williams, one of his strategies of hiring particularly Young College men, this made them very, very useful to organizations like the naacp. You had an interested crowd. They could disseminate information. It was one particular moment in the silent protest parade in 1917 which followed these of riots in east st. Louis, again, another dark spot in american history, and there is a silent protest parade down fifth avenue. One of the accounts was when they got the 42nd street the red caps there explaining the passersby what was going on. It intrigued me because they would not have likely been off the premises without having people given direct permission. Obviously it was one of those things he couldnt talk about what he knows hes working in the terminal. People ask questions like whats going on outside . I have pretty good reason to believe and the fact it was mentioned by one of the prominent writers of the time that this was a strategy to keep them in fault. I know this particular elks lodge were contributors to the silent protest parade, fundraising committee. A lot of students came to new york for this particular purpose as well, and being students they were very likely to need jobs while theyre going to school here. This is where they would go. Still the transient nature think about the red caps at that particular time. I mean, for me with i used to ride the trains i just didnt do so have an effect on new to find one. We would strike up conversations and i would learn interesting stories about these red caps and so i would love for you to tell us about sun the more interesting people who have come through the red caps and also talk about all of the organizations that chief williams formed, i think, in response to the transient nature of many of these red caps. He mightve only been there for a period of time, maybe a summer, fall, you were there as a student but hes able to create communities and that they did want to take care of each other during the time with one another. One of the interesting things was on the next block, the crossroads of Seventh Avenue and 135th 135th street was known as the campus. Because the wine say is theres a lot of people who were new to the city stayed there. He also launched a lot of college folk. The ywca was a few blocks off. Young men and young women would converge and solve all the problems of the world hanging out on the street, asian people tend to do. Many of them came and hung it specifically not just to chat and meet and socialize, but so they could be visible for people like williams to say are you looking for work . So they can be seen. They had to pay their school costs and thats what you would go. The campus was, it was a virtual place but it was an interesting nickname to the 20s. Some of the things, im not sure exactly what, when you say some of the organizations so the were the baseball and speeders oh, that. Americas favorite pastime, baseball, everybody plays a, blacks and whites alike. Its another way to get people together, to rally people, not just to entertain yourself, of course its entertaining, but you are representing. He organizes this team, the Grand Central terminal red caps team and hes there really at the critical time of the formation of the negro league. He does this interesting thing where he plucks a lot of the star players from the famous brooklyn team, the brooklyn royals. Another black team. The head, the owner of the te, nat strong is one of the most powerful men in baseball. He runs, forgetting the name of the organization, of colored baseball. Hes white. Hes a hotshot and williams does this very interesting thing when he gets these players to jump ship and play for the red caps here there are a lot of people who accuse nat strong not of nt giving black managers a square deal in the game, is making a lot of money off the talent. Williams takes it to the newspapers, and is the backandforth between williams and nat strong response. But nat strong says something to the effect that all you can offer these people is a job, but thats actually kind of critical because thats that what is offering. The baseball season was the season. What williams and then was he gets into play and beat together and still be a good thing because they often play together, he makes his team in fo have gone off to war and some havent come back, but he can offer them the. , which is employment, which nat strong couldnt do. Things like that are what kind of help solidify williams reputation as a race man, here he keeps, he keeps the game solvent. Its baseball still, you know, but they have this other thing when the scene is over they still have work. One of the captains of the team was cbr role. He stops playing baseball eventually hes a big star in the brooklyn team. There was a poet who published a poem like odes to earl. Even after he goes over to the manhattan side, he sucks plain baseball but he still red caps and for what and his living in girls house and when williams moves to the dunbar house. Williams is one of the first blacks to move onto strivers row in harlem when it opens up the blacks. Earl moves just across the street. Organizations like that, again i mention the orchestra and Benevolent Society and the quartet. There were two quartets but the initial one, this made Grand Central it in for the tree of Rockefeller Center became sort of manifest destination point at holiday time. People will go to Grand Central to the red caps singing on the balconies, Christmas Carols and spirituals. So it was really embedded in the holiday tradition in early time. Williams always sort of had his hand in organizing these things that kept the morale going, keeping it sort of worthwhile which i think is something that a universal sentiment, any of us whove been to any schools, junior high school, high school, whatever, it was a baseball team, the track team, a glee club or whatever and sometimes, these other things, you know, im going to show up because i get to sing with soandso or whatever. He did those things and really, i think this is why the other thing was because a lot of students, a lot of them there was not unusual to see an article that says phd carries your back. One out of every three red caps had college training, which was not the case for other departments where they were all white. This was, williams was very, very proud of this, that actually had more college educated, were seeing more people through college in there to partner, the red caps department of any other department in Grand Central. So his efforts in the war, certainly turned the great war, the first world war, were really notable. There were articles written about how chief williams had gone over the top and what he is able to fund raise. The tipping think was not always a constant. They were not always solid days. Sometimes you were really scraping, but i think because of the morale he was able to instill and a lot of these men, when the cause seemed really righteous, they made it work. This was a true, they were acknowledged by naacp, by selling raffle tickets or whatever making the big gala really a big gala. For this reason they got come his orchestra got, walter white when his head of the naacp, hes promoting the orchestra. Hes writing to the famous mexican artist during the harlem renaissance and hes inviting him to this big gala at the ballroom and says here to come here to Grand Central terminal red caps. They will play st. Louis blues like youve never heard it before. He is gushing in this letter. So those kinds of things, the way williams was able to instill this good morale was, he was a booster and a lot of these young men did finish college and a lot of them were taking social work courses and became leaders who would eventually, when the red caps move to the next phase, inspired by the Pullman Porters, organizing a union, by around 1937, 1940 when the conference, convention is in new york, some of those leaders are former red caps like lester granger. Howell wasnt there but he wrote a letter to the conference saying, giving them his best to use natural progression that williams really, hes getting on this time and it was stylistically different from the organization that he was used to when he started out what it was all part of the same effort and the same struggle and the same results. So in three minutes were going to take questions from the audience. There are two mics at the back of the room so please start to light up at those mics if you would like to ask the question. There is so much that we could cover here. Theres this whole life in harlem. We havent even gotten above 14 street in terms of our conversation that theres a lot about him, his family being one of the first families that move up into what is becoming black harlem and there are many that figure, in the book around like Philip Payton was the black Real Estate Agent who really helped the deal of helping black people to move from tenderloin and the area at that time, ymca, that was downtown, all moving up to the harlem that we know. Maybe we will say that for those of you who get the book but i did want to take a moment to talk a little bit about his politics, his efforts around his interests are not interest may become around unionizing and talking about his own personal activism as it relates to unions. Because you have a Philip Randolph is doing it for the Pullman Porters earlier in the century. You had james europe is developing a press club which is not eating but its a way of bringing together his fellow musicians in a way thats giving professional, but also making sure you are not getting short shrift it at the jobs they were hired for, hard as musician but when they get there they are expected to be Service Leaders and that sort of thing. So for chief williams, he asked that sort of the loudest voice in the course around unionizing like he is not wailing the voices either. Could you talk about that . Its interesting and is not really clear exactly what his position is other than by inference. There are slight moments that i came across in research where hes being critiqued for being silent, but they are very slight. Its like one or two. Almost feel, my own feeling, they almost feel like theyre uttered for show as if to demonstrate in case the managers of the railroads are concerned that weve got this black guy, hes black him he must be sympathizing with them, to kind of amplified them. In any other critiques of the system, of the grunt work they have to do, they are never personal against williams. My sense of that is that he plays his role his silence is really a strategy in the activism thats taking place. He appears to be an insider by the kind of does the right things. Also he is a really important and a delicate position that think everybody who is the strongest voice in the union effort appreciates, that he can get an audience to a certain degree. There are certain ways, he can talk to eleanor roosevelt. He may not be able to talk to her directly this way but by some sort of inference he can get on her radar to kind of shift as to whats happening and she becomes a voice in support of the red caps unionization. It remains unclear recicely what his attitude was, and by the same token i think what he was doing earlier on, because hes organizing the red caps before the Pullman Porter were an older group organized as units of the whole whole different style of activism. Again as as a say his kind of organization, its hard to protest job condition if you dont have a job. That was really initially what his style of organization was, like lets get this thing. Lets own this, put our stamp on it. And i think by the time that the red caps are supporting a trade you hes in a in a different p, an older place. But hes not really clear exactly what his position is but i dont get an impression that he is against it. And i think, i get the sense of, i want to say protection because people dont, they have a keen appreciation, particularly since a lot of them as a safe have been red caps themselves so they know what he was about. Earl brown who i mentioned before, was a journalist. He was an athlete, a manhattan bar president for two months in 1965. He is a key figure and he said if it were not for people like williams who were really proud of the race, that a lot of young black men wouldnt have been able to go to school. The result of them being able to finish school was they came to this next level. I think that he was, i think, i think you supported what they were doing, they unionization. And i think what he has been doing is still that of an activist. Activists are not monolithic. One of his oldest friends, one of the first like he was of blacks who moved to harlem before the first wave of the black migration is the shop steward if you will. I get the feeling it is almost like a playoff. You do this thing and i will do this thing. To answer your question i dont think there was a clear definitive answer on that but my hunch, my conjecture is he was very proud of where the red caps were doing in forming a union at this time. Do we have any questions . Im doing some research on a subject who is known but not wellknown. I have access to an archive and you didnt have access to an archive on this gentleman. I have two questions are what were the techniques other, and that you use to find Mister Williams. And how long did it take you from your initial discovery of Mister Williams to finishing this book. I had the newspaper, and you have to shout. There is a repository for the visual matter in the family and it is not an archive but it was invaluable being able to look through that and then went through records from the municipal archives, department of records, newspaper articles, contextualizing a lot of images falling into your lap, and this picture of gertrude williams, his daughter on the beach there and this is who she is with and that sort of thing. A lot of archives are not formally archives. The other question is how long did it take. I fall on my discovery of cheese williams in 2013 some weeks ago. I was giving towards for society, they give regulators, i was asked to do it. Wasnt my beat at all but there was a relationship between africanamericans and railroads. They were the same thing, interchangeable name but the red cat worked the station and Grand Central, to railroad what central park is, whatever happens was being copied. His being the first black red to railroad stations all over the place. I wrote an article, and online peace, i met somebody new and interesting and put it away, and i applied a fellowship for people working on biographies, it is 5 or 6 years but not concerted, when i decided i it was the better part of five years. Any other questions . I await this gentleman. Anything surprise you about the red caps . The myth that the virus helps with the stuff. There was an urban legend, no direct attribution that James Williams a perfectly fine story. In 1890, James Williams to get the attention, red flannel with the rest of it. And he was asked and that is what they say. And and the general passenger agent for the new york railroad. Established it on march 1st, 1895, specifically with white red caps to do these jobs and started in april of 1903 and replaced a man named walsh. An interesting story and wasnt a big surprise. One of those things you could see how useful the story was in terms of building up morale for the community. Other surprises were the variety of things people were doing, there was one young man, William T Davis who was a endurance motorcycle makes tips from red and bell hopping and trying to break some records and in 1929 took off from the campus, in a motorcycle. He writes letters back to sports editors. He goes to africa, and back the following year, it is inspirational how many of you have been around the world. In motorcycles nonetheless. Those things were surprising because people were not doing so much today that they were doing. We panic about, it is going to be a gas station and we have another concept, people had often a sense of what the obstacles are. The other way around that, having those adventures because it was not modernized. They highly recommend getting to that part of the book. The red caps have college education, would you know how many of them had College Degrees and they were migrant from hvc you college down south. There were often references to a lot of students who could hang out at the campus from a lot of hbcuss from the south. Blacks going to colleges in the north. Left granger was princeton, robeson was at nyu and rutgers. A lot of them were from hbcuss but not all. It was known as a place to go to get work during hiatuses to make money to pay for school. The percentage of those who came out with degrees, certainly there was a high instance of doctors, particularly dentists, there were a lot of reasons they were dentists as opposed to other medical doctors who would have to work in concert in places where they couldnt get in. A lot of educators, judges, one article was titled phd carries your bag and gave a stat, one in 3. So they have college training. The organization they are doing. There wasnt there wasnt a tacit working relationship and it was likely given the nature of williamss demo so they might have conversations that were not explicit like can you take care of this and my men are on it. I dont know what their relationship was formally. This is alvin. Thank you for writing the book over here. I am glad you put up this book, it gives me more stuff to talk about. Other than the constellations being backwards, this gives nice steps. The curiosity about the red caps, came a little late, the first guy was paid by the terminal. Did the red caps keep running on tips . They were getting a little salary, the incident i mentioned in 1905, and you live on tips by yourself. That was what came down, a tendency for their being successful. It is depending on the times, the economics, periods, in the 20s everyone had money after the stock market crashes, williams is on strivers role, that was one of the surprises. After 1929, everybody is poor. In some ways it doesnt seem to skip a beat. People might be tightening their belts and some things going on, but not making as much in tips during the depression. Travelers are taking their abouts and holding onto their wallets. One of the things, one of the things that helps them to organize a controversy about tipping and lose their tips. And they are being charged a fine amount. And people are going to travel later, and passengers are finding their own ways, people are traveling later in williams dies in 48 and it is timely, Real Services becoming less fashionable, this is the advent of superhighways and increased airplane travel, people driving the way they want to go. And we have time for one more question. I wanted to say thank you so much for doing this book. I learned of additional things i didnt know about my greatgrandfather. All of those the orchestra and the baseball scene i never knew about. I recognized what you had but there were a lot more but i appreciate you doing what you can do to gather for this great book. [applause] there are quite a few Family Members here. And thank you for joining us. You are unsung heroes, so appreciative, continuing to on earth as we are collectors, thank you all. Eric will be signing his books following this discussion. You are watching a special edition of booktv airing during the week as members are in the district due to the pandemic. Tonight the digital world. Enjoy booktv now and over the weekend on cspan2. Washington journal prime time, a special evening addition of the washington journal on the federal response to the coronavirus pandemic. Former Republican Senate majority leader bill frist, now a cochair of the brightest bipartisan health