Maps. What on the man anytime, unfiltered cspan. Org coronavirus. Good evening and welcome to upton Institute Foreign policy center. Im john walters, since the operating officer and i like to welcome our audience here at our pennsylvaniaavenue headquarters. And our defense audience to our first ever podcast taking that is both live and march 2 season of the premier of the podcast of the Second Season of the realignments hosted by hudson media fellows Marshall Marshall kosloff. We are proud of the realignments. The podcast launched last year and i recommend especially for those of you who havent been following it , if you take a look at the results from last year, particularly the conversation with secretaryof state mike pompeo, josh only , chris armani, mike gallagher, mike doran and others. Its an Excellent Program partly because of the 2 people who put it together and their ability to bring up topics and to move the argument along so we could be proud of the work that theyve done and i want to thank them or that and we are happy to launch this years program. With michael lind who is as many of you know a prolific writer, more than a dozen books, cofounder of the new America Foundation with hudson on ravenel. English fellow in strategy and statesmanship, walter russellneed. Michael is a professor at lyndon b. Johnson school of Public Affairs at university of texas and important for tonights conversation, he is the author of the new class war, saving democracy from the managerial ellie. Which you can purchase that, just published today so we are here at the launch, congratulations michael on that new book. Theres a direct line between the new class war and the work that michael has done and has been pursuing since the 90s. Maybe best exemplified by his book the next American Revolution the new nationalism and before the american resolution area the next american nation, new nationalism and the fourth American Revolution. Whether you agree with his interpretation of western politics since world war ii has worked demonstrates a serious effort to understand the causes of and solutions to a seemingly neverending cycle of clashes and shipping coalitions which is exactly what our realignment podcast takes to explore. Also dont joining us is jd vance who fittingly was the realignments premier guest. Jd of course is the author of the bestselling and highly influential book hillbilly elegy, a powerful account of family, community and america. He recently cofounded a Venture Capital firm investing in people and technologies working to solve significant challenges, also a visiting fellow at aei. I only started his book, i have a horse read jd vances book which if you havent, you should. Its an important discussion of a part of america that maybe someone like Charles Murray would say is outside the mobile of the elite classes. At the beginning of michaels new book he says demagogic populism is the symptom of technocratic media a liberalism is the disease, democratic pluralism is the cure. Im not sure if that is a throwdown for this evening but we are pleased to start from that discussion and to take on that issue which is health. We will take questions later in the program and you can email those two events at hudson. Org and we will get them up to marshall as we get to that part of the program so send them along, i know everybody here is technically sophisticated so this will not be a problem. Without any further ado, please join me in welcoming michael, michael lind and jd vance. [applause] michaels going to be available after the talk to sign books so if you think its great, take a second to get those out area and just to reiterate if we have any questions, its events hudson. Org. At this point ill speak for you. With that marshall, let me start us off. The book is called the new class war saving democracy from the managerial ellie. Lets defined terms, whatis a class war . The class war is conflict among quasihereditary classes where your parentage is associated with a particular structure of occupations. And we think we live in meritocratic system but if you look at what i argue is the fundamental cleavage in modern transatlantic society which is educational, its not a matter of mere aftertax income, theres , youre much more likely to get a diploma if one or both of your parents have diplomas which are kind of the degrees of nobility. And if both of your parents did not. So i argue that in europe as well as the United States i think both sides of the atlantic are similar enough now to make robust generalizations. That would have been the case 40, 50 years ago but as europe has become more multiethnic, as the United States has become more secular theres convergence and what you see is arguably this widening divide, socially and politically to the College Educated and the more or less 2 3 majority which does not have even a bachelors degree. You agree with that because you interpret what youre saying it seems like youre suggesting unlike in previous eras last status is denoted by Education Matters more than income in terms of explaining the way our society works. Yes and number the average american who has a bachelors degree has an income of about 60,000 here. The average High School Graduate with no Higher Education is about 37,000 so theres a correlation. But unlike in the past, where class status was based on ownership of property, whether you were a feudal landlord or you were and enemies are screwed mole business owner, you were the Owner Operator of a business. The elites in the western world today largely, their wealth and their power and their status tends to come from their position in a large bureaucratic organization. India corporation or law firm, it can be a nonprofit. It can be the military and access to those lucrative influential positions is largely determined by education area. I think one of the comments retorts that is why is it education is the great denotative class. Michael and i were speaking this morning talking about a plumber and set up a number could make 100,000 and the rich. Based on yourexperience, how do you see that cleavage in american society. I think i largely agree with mike and first of all let me thank you both for doing this. Next time you have on please tell me what. But i think that whats true about mikes account, i dont know that i 100 percent agree but like 95 percent agree to what seems to be mostly true about that account is that if you go to a suburb in Cincinnati Ohio and you go to a Plumbing Firm and you go to the guy who owns the firm and you go to the people who work there. And then you go to the clerical staff , theres something much more similar about that group of people, about their spices, about their children and there is between lets say the owner of the Plumbing Supply firm and a person who is a majority or large shareholder at google for example so i do think that theres nothing about the way in which Educational Status both converters those sort of reinforces and signifies class status as its really important in our society and of course most people do not, the gross majority of people cannot learn their living off of Capital Appreciation so there is this weird way in which what mike called the professional managerial class is of internally coherent even though it might not have the sort of person at the 91st percentile of the income scale is not going to have the same income as a personat the 99. 9 percent of the income scale. To tie a bow on this on the managerialclass, people throw it around on the progressive left. Who are these people in particular, you characterize them as a large bureaucratic organization. Its corporate elite or is it just the transatlantic sense, what is it that defines them as aclass . There are different definitions read the left has something it called the pnc, professional managerial class which refers in my mind is simply a small subsection of the managerial elite these tend to be people in the professions where you more or less set your own hours, lawyers, doctors, more in the past and present professors, podcast posts. If you can work from home basically. Go this progressive theory is there are three classes, theworking class, professional managerial class, broadcasters and professors and then theres the capitalists. Up there and ireject this. I followed James Burnham , the trotskyist and early conservative movement. Of the 1940s wrote the book the managerialrevolution. He argued that the independent Owner Operator who was the catalyst but also ran his own business had been superseded already by the 1920s in the us and in europe by corporate managers but he also included in the managerial class government officials, career civil servants, academics and in a passage that few people note in the managerial revolution in 1940 he said the career military, the uniformed military which would become more important over time as one of the most organized, long before the deep state which he was kind of part of because he worked for the cia a lot and the ensuing decade. So i have a broader definition of that and a lot of people but again, its if you contracted with workingclass, the workingclass is changing its nature because of the changing composition of jobs. Through loss of manufacturing through outsourcing also just through ordinary productivity growth. Manufacturing has shut a lot of jobs and if you look at the United States according to the bureau of labor statistics almost all of the new jobs are created in numerous receptors read its leisure and hospitality, leisure and healthcare. And according to the Us Government of the top 10 jobs that are being created in numerical terms, only registered nurse requires any Education Beyond High School diploma, so the story that we are told at davos and aspen and not here obviously is the jobs of the future require an advanced education. Actually they dont. Americans and their counterparts in europe are underpaid. They are not overeducated in my argument in the new class war is the underpaid Bargaining Power of the kind that they 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Thing that i haventquite understood yet from the conversation is the war part. We can buy that theres an educational system that preferences people of degrees we can buy the idea of Certain Industries over others but wheres the war . A war suggest theres a group of people, the elite not only looking down on the workingclass trying to harm them to benefit themselves. Im curious what your take on that is. The book is not a Conspiracy Theory. Its not the protocols of the elders of zion and i dont think theres some secret office in washington or new york or San Francisco where the committee of the ruling class gets together. Its just that when power is unevenly distributed among social groups , and individuals pursue their own interests , the result even though it is not, theres no coordination is going to look as though the class is doing it its just the result of lotsof individual actions. If you look at Public Policy from the 1990s to the present , globalization. One of the things that just amazes me as a student of politics all my life is the unwillingness of people to acknowledge that there are tradeoffs with trade. With immigration, with investment. That different groups of some society, some benefits and some loose and theres this constant data propaganda, freetrade everybody. Immigration benefits everybody and you just think this is totally unrealistic. There are winners and there are losers area that part of the war. The policy that benefits both winners is the one that is just, the only one that is definitive in public and the one only one you here that becomes taboo to discuss the views of the losers. Thats the kind of war. Classic institution that cements workingclass social fabric and it also ensures work less participants have participation in the direction of the culture and attraction of Public Policies that influence the culture. Workingclass since the 1960s and the third in the big one is the place in which workingclass children row up and stable happy healthy homes. We know thats becoming a luxury that the workingclass family formation drops substantially, professional class has maintained a low level with the slight decline where was in the 50s and 60s. All of these institutions which were necessary and ensuring workingclass people were able to live happy lives had also have a Meaningful Life has basically either disappeared or become substantially weaker. The minimum i would say is there has been a class war and its pretty clear who is losing. From that perspective i agree with all that and yet the critics and specifically in your book Michael Bennett come out and j. D. Who says you are apologizing and conflating economic anxiety which is the rightwing talking point for racial resentment but you counter that in a recent piece he wrote in the wall street journal citing in am is tea m. I. T. Study. We are most likely to support donald trump and Bernie Sanders and so if that were the case then why would we support someone like Bernie Sanders and j. D. Of course i want to get you in on that and to talk specifically about the economic anxiety that really demonizes religious up colleges him for racism. Bearers to narratives about this populist uprising with trump in the u. S. And brexit and france and so one could one is its just a spontaneous eruption of neoracism which maybe was manipulated by Vladimir Putin from the crewmen and that is triggered this wave of boys from brazil like nashville is about to overthrow democracy in the u. S. And the uk and france and so on. You can tell what i think of that area and its a partisan alibi for the loss of Hillary Clinton in germany. Its not a serious story could more serious is the story its about money and inequality and progressives in particular like to have this graph and it goes down from the 1920s and then it goes up again and if its just about money than you have after tax redistribution and you get these workingclass people checks and they will be happy. The story i tell it in the new class war is its about power. The ability to influence your life and influence your society and power exists outside of the narrow government and libertarians get upset with me for this point but there is economic power in the marketplace. You do not have equality the quality Bargaining Power between most employers and employees. There is cultural power in the media. If you dont like the offer for your children you find you are at the movies or whatever you cant just found your own movie studio. That is power and particularly for americans the basis of the american creed was in the 18th century they called for public liberty. He could not trust concentrated power of any kind. They did not media back then or political power and diffusing power and having checks and balances is good in and of itself. I think we have kind of loss this with this narrative about its all about money and if we centralized power but we give you a 500dollar tax credit for 2000dollar tax credit every year then you should be happy. I was going to say i call the crass materialistic view of economic society. With trump its much more complicated and difficult but its not just having a good job or decent wage or not have enough money to afford basic needs of looking outside your door saying a community that was driving 20 or 30 years ago or finding out yet again one of your friends or one of your kens friends has died. Its not economic in a strict sense but its about the feeling of losing agency and losing power over your own life. I make this point a fair amount but i think its important so i will make it here again. You have to understand what the purpose is of the narrative that trump voters were motivated by pure racial inside a pretty fair just racist and just bad people you dont have to care about their concerns are their worries. Those two things very substantially or about the trump vote. One is that it was really related to the china shock which david has written about. We also know was heavily related to the rise in what folks have called despaired when you see a rise in the opiate related death in the communities see a significant shift from rummy to trump in 2016. If you are focused on the fact that all these people are racist and youre not concerned about the fact that a member of the elite actually calls it an opioid adamic academic and flooded these communities with drugs drugs and killed a lot of people and if we are talking about that we are talking about trumps racism where precipitating the class war which they have been winning for the past two decades. How do we balance the race in the cultural issue . The critics point out its a true fact is, the countrys white majority is shrinking in the places that are experiencing the most anxiety are also being accosted by economic vector so how do we handle that because the one legitimate part of the critique is this idea that theres a vague cultural shift going on. Part of it as is that has to be managed in a particular way. I am married to a firstgeneration immigrant and ive never felt once in my life that we didnt belong to the national community. People who feel like they themselves are assimilating with people who have been here for multiple generations of assimilating as well. I think one of the problems with their immigration policy we talk about it in economic terms and its important to the story but unless you are thinking about intermarriage rates and talking about metrics of assimilation trying to manage having control that in a way thats good for the overall population in the overall country i do think you can inflame some of these cultural racial or ethnic tensions. That is true across history and society. There is no good example of a society that has absorbed a large number of outsiders very quickly and very easily without social strife. You can blame that on racism if you want to but its a fact of life and if racism is what youre going to call it youll have to deal with it. I think to suppress it in a certain way one thing american elites were so uncomfortable talking about culture and the importance of assimilation is that we stop trying to manage it, we stop trying to actually build a unified nation out of a multiracial democracy that we have and i like that multiracial conversation because it brings a lot of benefits put it brings some challenges to. Western europe has a more significant problem in United States. Hundreds of years and ago there was a social and deep divide between anglo protestant and in the case of the irishamericans and the germans. It down and up redistributing because of the battle between the rural whites in the urban socalled ethnics. You had prohibition that was a war between the catholics and the protestants. You have the beginnings of multiculturalism and why should the europeans speak english . Flashforwards the 1970s the european diasporas had collapsed in most of the big cities or were broken very quickly but in 1970s the average White American was partly british and part of nonbritish dissent. We hear all of this about the rising nonwhite majority but thats counting every descendent of someone who is a nonhispanic whites will be nonwhite for the next 200 years. No matter what their other ancestry is. Richard alba and a professor named Stephen Trejo at the university of texas in austin has looked at latino assimilation with intermarriage. Latinos lose spanish is the primary language and marry outside of their group as the germanamericans and the polish americans in the germanamericans do. I would go further and say the suppose it determination of politics is drastically we have this 9010 pattern 90 of the democrats and temper some of the republicans. It is polarized including asianamericans and hispanic americans and nonhispanic whites. Nonhispanic whites are very divided with Hillary Clinton and donald trump. So its not polarized in that sense. In my home state of texas 40 went for Governor Abbott and 29 voted for donald trump. If youre polarization is not 5050 thats polarized but its not enormous with polarized. To want to shift the discussion to one of the criticism of the populace and the people who have populist politics and im not saying thats what youre doing here is that oh youre just shutting the system and he dont advocate for anything and you dont want it. You would just want to tear the thing down. Were sympathetic to that view satel as a think populace themselves are not good at governance collects. Im a critic of populism. Between an insider politics of wellestablished insiders and doesnt represent protest. Thats a terrible situation to be in. It was the politics of the American South between reconstruction and the revolution. Youve heard of this demagogue. When much of the population is just disconnected from everything and excluded from politics and authority you are going to get demagogues who rise to represent them. I think this is dangerous and the demagogues and if you look at the southern example if you look at latin america in the north you find this socalled white ethnic politicians in the northeast. Mayor michael hurley. Has anyone heard of Michael Curley from boston . Representative the irishamericans going against they angloamerican wasp. A power structure. In the south it was hugh a long supporting poor whites in the establishment. They almost always failed because the odds are stacked against the outsiders. They dont have the money the power of the connection so they can get elected but they lose. They dont have the people willing to work for them who are insiders because thats a career suicide. When they do succeed often its through dubious combination of criminality because they have to be financed somehow. You get this situation. In texas we had to populist governors james and Miriam Ferguson who succeeded each other in the 1920s. They did some good things for those who are frozen out that they finance themselves by selling pardons to criminals in prison. Huey long in louisiana couldnt get any money so he went into business with Frank Costello the chicago mafia and brought in the slot machines. The source of hewitt longs patronage of the populace governor was something called the deduct box. Every two weeks a certain portion of every state employee was paid whose pay was to duck did. It was like the Atomic Nuclear ball of the president. I think it is at best populism introduces new themes and outsiders but yet you have to have some kind of reconstruction program. Talk about that j. D. How do you navigate the professionalism needed to enact populist reform . I think im the one hand there are specific policies out there. How you might in reinvigorate the movement in the 25th and 21st century and make them less confrontational more compromising the given new benefits that they survive in the century hyperglobalized economy so the policies are in some way out their but i grew up. As i think most of the details of what a modern call it populist call it classical politics would look like i will say i worry about the political economy piece of this navigating various worlds. Mike and i were talking about this earlier. If you were to collect the call it right populist people who can gauge meaningfully with the quantitative economics may be like 40 of them are on the stage right now. You have another 60 . It isnt a small group and theres a way in which the institution are just not really wellsuited to this particular moment. I really worry about the fact that we dont actually have enough of these think tank intellectual, we dont have enough administrators and people who work in government. There is a lot of Institution Building that needs to be done so the criticism there a lot of populist policies i also think to build those things you have to sketch out a general way of thinking about a set of issues and hopefully start to build institutions out from there but we are still pretty early days on that. I think this idea you have michael is postworld war ii u. S. Economic power and call troll power and political power. On the economic side if you are working class person you have a union and on the cultural side and this is funny i read in the book you have censorship organizations that check hollywood and theres bad cultural stagnation but if you look at things like Chinese Companies and they say i guess tom cruise is going to be in japan now. You see it on the political side and thats whats hard for me to reconcile as you have local political strong man back home in the state legislatures. On the one hand we see them as corrupt the widest that whole status quo fall apart . There are different realms and the censorship. Let me preface by saying workingclass exercises its power by veto power. They did not have the resources or the expertise to come up with its own plans. The strike or the threat of a strike are the forces to reconsider. The catholic legion of the hollywood producers to run hollywood scripts pass them in advance predicted say no and they can release them themselves. The local political boston can say no to the candidate. We didnt have self financed candidates. The political bosses were important because this was the money could go to senior neighborhood they controlled the state party and the national party. A friend of mine used to goround of the 1960s with Bobby Kennedy Walking Around money to carmen the boss of the bronx. We had the equivalent in the south. The only thing thats worse than having these local party powerbrokers is not having them. When they all finish the parties become a label that leaders like tom sired Michael Bloomberg and donald trump imbibe. Before coming here a few days ago i went to the web site of the Democratic Party out of curiosity. My grandmother who grew up in a farm in Central Texas she and her africanamerican friends during the civil rights revolution with similar backgrounds were part of the Democratic Party and part of the precinct machinery and all of that and give election work and all of that. I went to the Democratic Party to see how i could join. They just had a donate button. On the National County and city was donate which tells you something. Now its a spectator sport unless you are a donor or if polster a candidate. To finish up that one of both of your views doesnt new class look like whether culturally or politically. There is no victory in these wars. Theres nowhere were were conservatives and liberals have a liberal discourse to what is the new setup look like . Lets preface this in the new class war. Industrial capitalism is the greatest engine of Economic Development in history. You do not want the employer class but you also dont want the working class to be so powerful it stifles growth. If we were in a different situation where the managerial class was too weak and organized labor was to power full i would elude you to a different book. We need to have a functional equivalent of some of these membership organizations and in the new class war i call it the local political entity of some time. Doesnt have to resemble real political machine. The congregation which can be an increasingly wealthy secular creed and not necessarily a religious creed as the u. S. Becomes more secular like western europe and i use the term the guild to encompass all kinds of alternative that j. D. Was talking about in connection with orden passes ideas. These things will not look like the units had churches and political machines of the 1970s that they would serve some of the same purpose mainly in cooling the numbers of workingclass people. If youre workingclass you dont have access to the Financial Resources to influence society. You dont have expertise to influence policy. All you have is your numbers and unless those numbers are organized in some kind of a disciplined institutional way you lack power. That j. D. Before you launch into your settlement idea what type of mental break is required from a baked bacon ideology that has been on the rise after decades . Consider these as Viable Solutions to help the working class. Well i think first of all it requires us to think about it requires us to have a National World in which effective government is actually better than no government and i think it requires the willingness to acknowledge Public Policy at Different Levels might be useful in solving some of these problems. I do think this is where transformation last 30 years and i grew up in this world reading conservative publications being influenced by them where the private sector needs to do things in the Public Sector and thats a pretty terrible way to think about the world when you are engaged in policies and Public Policies before you start the conversation. My answer in class settlement i dont know but i have a very good answer. I would say it looks Something Like what mike just said it looked like. You have reinvented curt reinvigorate institutions at the workingclass level and summarize participation in whether its church for something thats local and communal. You have actual worker organizations that can push for their interests and advocate for their membership but i do worry and when i take about the book and make urge everyone to buy it and read it and engage with it, i worry that we are incapable of solving a lot of problems that mike writes about and if i put my professor had him for while while its not that we have reached this juncture of five or 10 years from now where we start to solve things but we had to go attend 15 to 20 or period of managed decline and that hopefully we are able to see those things produce away things produce a way in which our policies are fundamentally broken in the institutions are broken and i dont even know what Congress Actually does right now other than looking at impeachment files. Its all very late roman republicish and that really worries me and i dont know what the answer is but i think if there is an answer that we are willing to push for then we should be paying attention at this time. Thats a bleak assessment. The theres a story in the economist about a Young Research assistant who was reading the newspaper when they. He said britain is ruined and professor smith said young man theres a great deal of ruin in a country. [laughter] i want to move on to q a and i have some actually gray questions here. The main thing we havent talked about his donald trump its interesting in this podcast the political realignment sparked by the president United States how often we dont end up talking about it. I think this is one of my central questions ive seen about this at and the question is is trump still the forefront of realignment are governed more like a pretrump realignment calling for increased in decrease immigration. How do you think trump within a context of a new class were . Let me say from the beginning i thought trump had less to do with mussolini and hitler than Arnold Schwarzenegger and his friend vinci jesse ventura. Ventura tried to take over the reform party and when you get these celebrity outsider president they have two choices. One is if they run against the leader of one of the two parties the United States they can neither govern once they are elected as conventional and they can find a link between the two from the very beginning trump became a republican. He is not than a republican his whole life. Evidently he was at democrat or a independent. That was a strategic decision he made. With one exception Foreign Policy where the president has far more discretion where you are more dependent than your own party in congress and there i think he is made a difference. George w. Bush left the country with two ongoing wars in afghanistan and iraq. Obama was elected because he was going to end the wars so he added three more in syria libya and yemen. Despite the iran thing trump has not added a sixth war. He seems to favor theatrical displays of wars as an alternative to deep brain gauge meant in postponing it to the other area where he has shown his own recollections is trade by bringing in robert y. Caeser an accomplished democrat. He switched in 2016 or 2017. I think trump is not just inferring this from his actions decide its okay im going to ride a blank check to brian and the republicans in congress on domestic policy but ill push my parties and Foreign Policy and particularly trade traded what do you think j. D. . The institutional weakness within talking about where the apparatus that republican this is a group of people who when they got the opportunity to govern with that playbook for the last 20 years i dont think they have seen a substantial realization of how things have gone through the political piece continues and i think republicans now in 20 congressional dishes the country theres a way where policy hasnt caught up to the politics bred one thing i would add for specific iteration about what might talked about with trade is the china issue trump i think deserves a mark of a credit for shifting the entire national conversation. Its tough to overstate how different the elite assistance wasnt 2014 and relevant to today. We get with the exception of the democratic frontrunner china is a significant problem economically and on the National Security sense had i think the credit of changing that number station goes largely to the 2016 election and donald trump. That sousley right and on the democratic stage easy one candidate who said he would take away the china tariffs. Most of them said they would vote for them. If thats not political realignment what is . An interesting one asking about what are some of the least economic what are the least economically destructive powers that could be implemented to restore a more even balance of power and capitol and labor . Tight labor markets. That is labor naturally wants to have a sellers market and a buyers market in labor and mean a sellers market in labor and buyers want an employers market in labor. Thats why from the 1820s until the 1990s the American Labor movement tended to be for more restrictive immigration policies and the employer elite wanted looser and more generation migration policies because the former Country Club Republicans have become the new coastal democrats for their children and grandchildren have you see that shift and the Employer Perspective even if you dont do anything else for labor and its not simply immigration. Its maybe early retirement of things like that anything that makes employers elite for workers can help their Bargaining Power. The neck i agree with that. Maybe theres a substantial increase in her needs but we do have to restart productivity. Its more stagnant the past 20 years. We need to get the economy in a position today like it was in the 60s. Is incorporating working class data very well researched and written . Is incorporating marginal adjustments remains viable and we do redistribute power and money would not make the current winners and losers in current losers winners and not correct anything michael . I disagree that and i agree with the fdr the christian immigrants in germany. He had these postwar settlement and having gone through war they had a vision for a while of the capital labor in the common project in regional reconstruction. They werent tattling to the death. Obviously there were marxists on the right and libertarians on the left. The people who benefit from this in the longrun are the privileged if they can preserve their privileges by making strategic concessions or theres a story about joseph and the the financier father of john f. Kennedy and bobby and ted kennedy. Was asked why he supported Franklin Roosevelt and the new deal and he said i would give away half my fortune to keep the other half. I agree with mike. Historically if you look at the horse world and postwar societies that engaged in corporatism or land in class compromise the uk and the United States has at the top of the list and if you look at the societies that refuse to engage in a compromising would include russia italy and germany i do think theres something ready unpredictable about political instability and in general to try to reform the system as best you can is supposed to a Certain Group is going to tramp and even if they do its not necessarily different. With that current information revolution im going that includes automation social Media Communications etc. Talk about the committed impact of the information revolution on the class war and you described in losing power and influence michael. A frame of the big tech specifically. There is a radical difference in how the media are used by the social classes. Therell be studies showing people on twitter are overwhelmingly collegeeducated people are the workingclass gets much more information from oldfashioned television and from podcast of course. I think this is probably more of the first group and from radio because they are in their cars. I wouldnt exaggerate the role that much because first with television and then with the internet theres this tendency to think that people are terribly malleable and can can be mesmerized and hypnotized by media. This is the basis of the whole russian Conspiracy Theory that russians brainwashed africanamericans into not voting for hillary and this other group into voting for trump pic i remember back in the 70s there was a study that norman layers on the family came out. Was supposed to promote liberal values that most of the people watch about archie bunker was the hero in the whole point of the show was to make fun of the community. People can filter the media. When i go to a restaurant with my family and i see basically half of the tables all the kids stare at their devices have appeared staring at their devices about speaking to each other eddie recognized fundamentally this model of articles on what others have called information arbitrage trader for sick and you are spending his staring at the devices opposed to reading a book or communicating with your family they are good at making devices with narratives as long as possible. I think there is something very disturbing about the way that captures our attention and the way it makes us less productive and ive talked a lot about the nerds who are worried about the effect it has on productivity in their workforce and people working eight or nine hours but actually working for five hours because they are so absorb in their devices. I do worry about this and i think one way of taking power away from the working middle class is to emphasize them and i dont think thats necessarily what we are doing but its truer than tv or some electronic innovation. The last question we have is about education. Education crosscutting transcends shared interest in class division. How will we find some Equitable Society which doesnt share the same level of education and . It depends if the education is useful or not. As i pointed out earlier arguably americans are overeducated inasmuch as different studies show 10 to 15 of jobs are being done by people with b. A. S and not require anything more than a high school education. If anything its worse for society to have people that have the sense of disconnect between their highfalutin degrees and their perfect glee respectable workingclass jobs that they feel they are degraded because its not the income expected from their degree or its not the status they expected. Are in terms of the kind of progressivism is professor lake or money make everyone a professional and everyone will make more money. If you give everyone a b. A. It becomes a High School Diploma or ged and you get a society if don quixotes. He was an aristocats who had no money. You dont necessarily want that. You know im pretty skeptical that the Education System works especially well. They are sorry state about whether education is Human Capitol Development pretty good test that theory and the people who are the most powerful advocates of human capitol. Go dl law school which has never class size of 200 tell the administrators and tell the students and the people who are alumni that we should triple or quadruple the average size of the class. Its such a great education we are developing Human Capital only to get out to as many people as possible but of course that inflates the value and exclusiveness of the degree had so much of what we are doing with modern education is social signaling. On that note thank you all very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [applause] c thank you. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us for this event book talk, brick by br b
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