Hello, everyone. Can you hear me okay . Okay, im trying not to be in the view but by the end of this we will be behind the curtain. Welcome to kate dawsons book events. My name isto becca oliver and im the director of the writers of texas and we are the largest Literary Arts Organization in texas and we support writers and one of the things we love to dor is have the opportunity to talk to published authors about ther most recent book but also to dig in a little more than i think we get to as often as we would like to add book events which has a craft talk. Talk more aboutut what craft wet into creating the book and especially for the book were talking about today, american sherlock, there are so many interesting things that kate can share that would be applicable to any writer that happens to be here. Who here is a writer . Who here writes but did not raise their hand . Yes, there are always a few of you. [laughter] we will make sure we get to conversation about craft as well. I just want to say quickly before we start a big thank you to book people. We are so lucky to live here in austin and have a lot of wonderful literary communities and one ofe at the big hubs of t is this bookstore so thank you very much for having us here tonight. I hope you will enjoy the conversation and go downstairs and get a book and bring it up to be signs because i think we all know the best way to support writers is to either books. Yes, we will encourage you to do that tonight too. Finally, i wanted to read kates bio and then she will read a little bit from the book and then we will dig into the conversation. Kate Winkler Dawson is a seasoned documentary producer whos appeared atha w cbs news, abc news radio, fox news channel, united press international, pbs news hour and night line, just a few and you probably have not heard of any of those. They sound small. Shes the author of destiny air, true story of a serial killer, the great london smog. In addition to the book we will talk about tonight and she teaches journalism at the university ofto texas at austin. Please welcome kate Winkler Dawson. [applause] im a multitasker so one of beccas first questions will be where i found the subject of the book. And so [laughter] the expert is im picking this for two reasons. It fits perfectly with that in too, because the reading ive done in the past involved a lot of body parts in my 210 yearold daughters are here so we will go with a little more vanilla of a section. So, the setup for this is how its the case that i read and how i discovered Edward Austin heinrich. Its why he became called american sherlock homes. When i found him he was mentioned in a case about a botched train robbery in oregon and it was four people dead and the robbers that were not robbers because they did not walk away with anything were in the wind and the only real proof they had were a pair of overalls. The federal agents, so, the government sent down the postal agent and Southern Pacific Railroad agent and that was the extent of federal agent investigators. Ci they did what federal agents do is go through with a fine tune tooth comb to find everything and the only thing that came up with was on one of the pockets was some grease, mechanics grease. They arrested a mechanic who was a neerdowell and this guy is in jail and the sheriff is nervous and so he says lets call in heinrich and see what he thanks that he had been known for a few cases before this. So, heinrich at this point had the fantastic photo of him penned up the overalls on a door that he hung from the ceiling so he can look at it and put a pair of shoes which look odd to me underneath as this invisible man hanging from the ceiling wearing his overalls. Wh oscars gaze traveled up the garment and he stared at the engine oil on the left pocket and evidence that had convinced federal agents that a local mechanic was the killer. Oscar scraped off some of the dark sticky glue, spread it across the glass slide, and placed it underneath the microscope. He adjusted the oculars and rotated the magnification dial. It wasnt grease, he was sure because he hadad not spotted any of the standard components. No oil, vegetable oil, mine but he dripped a reagent on the slide and watched the Chemical Reaction for the gout was a purely organic substance. With his pencil oscar in the most Important Note of the case, a scribble on the back of an old envelope that would save the mechanics life. Hitch. Not oil on left pocket. The grease and the overalls came from a tree, not a vehicle. Osoon oscar would determine tht the pitch actually came from a douglas for, a tree found in western oregon in the same type of naturally occurring sticky resin used to caulk the seams of wooden sailing ships for centuries. Oscar turned out to the pockets of the overalls carefully as little chips caught in the fiber reflected the light of the small flashlight. No larger than a half size of ap he wrote but the pockets carried tiny chips, earth debris and mechanical debris the cure nearer thehe western washington and western oregon forest. The suspect lived in the western part of oregon he concluded. Oscar understood human nature. A manss habits reflected his personality also. Now we are schoonover to the federal agents are finally tired of all these notes and want answers. They come down to his lab which is in berkeley and theres one federal agent, one from the u. S. Postal and another federal agent and so they say to him, who is it and what is this guy because we have this mechanic we are ready to put him to death for this . He said no. Its a lumberjack. The wearer of the owner was a lumberjack employed in a fur or spruce logging camp, a white man not over 510, probably shorter, wait not over whethern to stay 5 pounds, probably less. Not so fast, professor said the postal agent. You mean to say that you found all of this out merely from examining those overalls. Oscar explained this is the razzledazzle part to me. Oscar a plane that he could estimate the weight of the owner because lumberjacks frequently bought their overalls and a larger size so they had room to shrink in the wash. Those overalls appear to be new. The special shoes at his assistant retrieved earlier were walking shoes and when he placed them underneath the overalls cuff they were the perfect length for a longer hoping to keep his clothes from being ruined by climbing trees. Lumber man where their pant legs turned up in a deep cuff about halfway between angle and their cath and outside the boot. Oscar noted that. He measured the distance from the cops creases to the shoulder straps to estimate the wearers height. He also knew the owners Left Shoulder was three force of an inch higher than the rights how the straps were adjusted. They were handled exclusively on the lefthand side. That meant he might have been left handed. The suspect was caucasian, according to the chart that oscar used to classify two strands of hair. While he was not able to use the hair to conclusively identify the suspect his assertion of the ethnicity of the owner was scientifically valid. He created a physical sketch of a killer and incredibly accurate profile based on a single pair of overalls. Oscars description tallied perfectly with roy [inaudible], [inaudible] deputies released the mechanic from jail and now special agents focused their search on a lumberjack from oregon. [applause] thank you. Kate, how did you find oscar . But once you found him and there is more to that story, right . But once you found him how did you know that he was worth finding . What did you discover . As you have said, there is not a lot was known about him in basic searches. Right . Right. When i was done with my first book which was about a london air pollution disaster and a serial killer caught in it along with a lot of other people i felt like i wanted to go towards forensics. My father was a law professor at the university of texas and we talk about forensics a lot. I was on the search for forensic scientist. So, you know i got this book and i found this case and found this american sherlock label and you are right, i was attracted to the name and the man and when i found out how significant he was that he was a pioneer for forensics it was very exciting. Theres so many other steps to writing what i think is a compelling narrative nonfiction book. This is just for me. Number one, i like to write about people who are relatively unknown trade im not going to write about jfk. I want the unknown person. I want someone who has made history and this is someone who has made history. I want a time that i feel like im excited about and the older the better for me. My first book was based in 1952 and heinrich work between 19101953. That is for fantastic decades and so much happened in that time that is exciting for me and food, music, culture, crime and corruption in politics and all that stuff is important because usthats how you can build a really good story. I really wanted a great locatin and i love San Francisco and lived in San Francisco and he worked out ofd berkeley so that was important to me. The biggest thing for me, well, there is one thing. Besides making history what he did to make history which is advancing forensics, what does that tell us about now . That pertinent now. Is on sick important now . It is. Se really, finally, the big thing for heinrich that i think was in favor for military was that his collection at uc berkeley was enormous. That was a really good thing in a really bad thing because it was an excellent thing because it gave a huge amount of sources and it was excellent because it scared everyone else away. When you say enormous 120 boxes and that does not even count the letters he had. In a been closed for 65 years but i think when he died in 63 his youngest son, mortimer, basically got whatever 1965 equivalent of a uhaul is and dumped it at uc berkeley, his entire lab because everything was there. Uchi berkeley, like many other archives, libraries is understaffed. And so, when you do the search, usually as a researcher, i go to world cap. Org or i tire of grid and put in these aims and those websites will tell you if the person has a collection where the question g is and if they he multiple collections. If you type in Benjamin Franklin hes at 12 different locations. I put in heinrich and he was at uc berkeley but then it said closed collection so that meant researchers cant go in. So, i read more about him and him i had put together a good case and theres a form you can fill out and it basically says i know is closed and i know its a big deal and let me explain why it should be opened. Im an established author, and with a Real Publishing company, putnam, anda this is why this n is significant and why you need to take the time to open up the collection. I got an email back from the assistant to the archivist who eventually said good luck because it will probably not happen but we are so understaffed and this is the collection and is closed for reason because its so large. Two days later her boss, laura michaels, email me and she said we will do it. She said you are right, hes great and he taught here for 40 years and we should open up the collective but she said it will take two years and i will work one day a week on it. I said great, i will take it. All of that, that leads me to not only identifying someone who i think is worth a book with compelling cases but having to take a step insane this is why you need to open this and its worth it. Lets talk a little bit about what was in those boxes because if you dont mind, i will read this paragraph to give folks an idea. Oscar faithfully, meticulously filled out several pages of his large field journals every day of the week, even on the weekends and holidays. He chronicled specific times for every appointment, phone call or scientific tests and noted the case involved in the margin. Also he noted when he awoke in the morning, when he fell asleep, when he required his afternoon nap, almost daily and even journaled when he journaled. This marked out what a fastidious man he was. [laughter] you hit the jackpot in terms of and also i imagine [inaudible] so talk about that. I know he had a lifelong friend that he wrote a lot of letters to. It was completed because like i said, the reason everybody asked me how come nobody has done anything on american sherlock homes, Oscar Heinrich and his if you saw the boxes you would know why. Its overwhelming. This is what toomey makes it so much incredible book that was so unbelievably time consuming. Oscar had about three secretaries and had them typed all his letters out. If it was really private he would handwrite them andnd thank god he had a nice handwriting but everything was typed which was incredible. He kept all his letters and frequently kept letters that he sent out. His son, theodore, became a really big deal in the museum world and his best friend, john kaiser, who is his watson character is a big deal in the Library World and cop sidekick [inaudible] was a police big deal and they all had collections and kept each others letters. I think for somebody doing this type of book was so incredible important and i think unusual because there is a point where ive got two screens and i worked everything digital for me. I got two screens and theodore, his sons letters from january 121933 and his letters to theodore, generate 12, 1933 and can create conversations literally. I have three weight conversations at some point betweenon these different people that have these credible collections and so having that rich of an archive is amazing and somebody asked me the other night how i picked the cases and was embarrassed because my editor was sitting there and i said i asked the archivist for the biggest file and give me the ten biggest criminal caseus fils you have and i dont even care what they are because i wanted that information and of course, i adjusted and some worked and some did not but i was looking for not just compelling cases but a lot of information and when i mean information i mean in one of these we will bring this up. One of the cases is scotty arbuckle if you are of a certain age you might know of scotty arbuckle who is if brad pitt were still relevant he would be the brad pitt of 1928. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] so, he would beat the brad pitt of 1921. He was a film star who was accused of assaulting and killing a beat list Movie Actress and the things that were in the file were like the archivist and i put up a lock of hair and i said what is this and she said that thet actresses hr who he supposedly killed. It was just laying in his file which is incredible. He kept all his evidence that he should not have had good there were loaded guns, loaded pistols and they had at Uc Berkeley Police had to come out and remove a firing pin. Just to stop bad things from happening. He had bomb parts and he removed the bullet from a womans heart and then filled the heart up with wax to take a wax cast of it so he could match it later on and i found that in it was pretty incredible thehe things that were in their. [inaudible question] he did chartism your levels and i thank you wanted to do something with dialysis and that is the interesting thing about Oscar Heinrich, he wanted to do so much. He was interested in his own Forensics Lab and interested in chemistry and in starting multiple businesses and wasnt justch solving crime but so many other facets to him. His friend he mentioned who was the librarian would also [inaudible] that would help him further his own science. He was his watson. Where you begin . You five decades of material i know you said and you have zeroed in on the files that were the largest and you have this true crime aspect and narrative that you are weaving together and this book is wonderfullyou written. It so beautifully written and i want to read from the star review because no one needs to take my word for it and i will tell you what they said. Entertaining, absorbing, accommodation a biography and true crime and many true crime books suffer from failed pros dawsons writing is remarkable and never uses ball suspense but doesnt skimp on valuable details. I think some of that comes from the fact that you had a lot of great information but how did you begin to think of how youut would craft this narrative . Its hard. Of obviously you want to start and for me i started learning about his life and chronology and where did you go and what cases did he do and how did he develop all of these incredible tools and so once i started with an outline and what is his life story and what are the key points and where does he get married and where did he grow up and where did he go to school and then i can fill in where these cases are and it is overwhelming though because i wanted to really look at where he was in his life as these cases progressed so you are doing three things thatwa you ae looking at the narrative arc of the story and thinking about the story from his life at least from the beginning of what he is learned and who he is to the end of his life and what he has achieved and where he is in his personal life but then i got these individual cases that have their own little arcs within them and have to keep an eye on the world of forensics. Hes worried about bloodstain pattern analysis and then where are we in that and you really have to just make sure that your whole world continues to move forward all based on what he is learning and what they are proceeding to learn. It was difficult at times because oscar had the same level of insecurity throughout his entire life which he did not show often except i dont think he showed it to his wife, marion. I think he showed it to his best friend who was this watson character. I think that he really felt li like, you know, over time he was Getting Better and he was speaking to juries and weight that made understand and that was his struggle and thats a struggle with experts now and how do you take the chemicals that are 12 letters long and explain this intricate process that you spent four years or eight years learning in school and translate that to somebody who likely in the 1920s barely even has a High School Education if that sitting on a jury. That was a lifelong struggle for him and i was always looking for these ways to bring in his progress and he has a lot of progress over the years and it was cool to see it. For the csi fans in the room can you talk about the 1920s and those decades but really a lot of what happened in the book took place in the 20s, right . What are those abandonments we sought because it seems like so much of the pioneering in the field happened around that time . Ng in the field happened around that time. It did. I would say pre1910 the europeans had a handle on forensics and you see a lot of advancemen we see that in the Sherlock Holmes books were doyle is coming up with new things that are inspiring forensics in Forensic Science is inspiring him in the Sherlock Holmes book, and the united states, youve a lot of experts during the time. There were reading european books, they are professionally trained and author called them scientist by correspondent where you can read a book or two and be an expert. So oscar was really unique because the field that were really just trying to take off, he had an interestt in. So to backup, he grew up to become washington, and h his father life ended really abruptly and tragedy. And it left him as the breadwinner and he became a pharmacist by the time he was 18 without taking any former classes, he passed the state board, kind ofal incredible. So he learned about drugs there, he talked his way into uc berkeley with no high school degree, he had to drop out to support his family and he got an undergrad degree in chemistry. They said they led them on special circumstances because he had a letter that said we will let you in and if you take the certain test in the exams, he showed up and put his way into it. He went to uc berkeley and went to trigonometry in every thing else you can think of. He took several jobs that played into a strength and the reason im tiny about the jobs, not to sound too exciting but they are separately laying wrong, he became a sanitation engineer in tacoma where he was able to figure out the way, the different components of standing using different microscopes to look at dirt or steel entrance and in what particles make it up, i did not know sanders different in different leases depending on wes coast or east coast, theyre all composed of different articles of things. So when oscar decided to go into criminology because he is a criminal list, have these tools he did not know he would need. He became an incredible person who used forensic geology for the first time because what person was investigating a crime is going toat understand what a sanitation engineer, you just want it, he does what happened to be a sanitation engineer, use the first to use forensic entomology tog a corpse and he started to pioneer of blood stem analysis, he certainly use fingerprinting a lot and he took over handwriting, he was an expert in handwriting analysis and he took over his mentors, the office foror a while, there was a whole list ofnt things tht brought me in biology, ballistics that he knew that a lot of these guys were just figuring out in the people if you do google famous forensic scientist and you look at the wikipedia page, all these people who were experts and ballistics and paul kirk who saw the shepherd case, all of these guys were all writing to each other and they were all figuring it out together, this is like the wild west of forensic because anybody could call themselves an expert in its hooves the better talker. He had a few experts that he felt very competitive with. To me you cannot write a really good book without having a guy who is a jerk and has some adversaries and he had a lot of adversaries. A lot. There competing for the same money, the same prosecutors and the same attorneys. I love the way that you set the book up, you have it with one particular case in each of the chapters in a different ca case, can you tell us which of these cases was the most interesting for you or that you felt that you learned the most about oscar from reading, im just curious if you have a favorite in this book. My favorite in general, and its a little tacky but occult bits and pieces about a woman whose body parts are everywhere and theyre trying to figure out where she is. So the case without giving it away, the cases that he receives in the mail from the police in el cerrito and Northern California and near in a piece of scalp. They dont know if its a male or female and they dont know where the rest of the body is, theyre assuming the person is dead and he says yeah, i think so. And they said, how do we figure this out. He said let me take a look at it. So this case was really pivotal because it was again he used forensic geology by finding a grain of sand running a test sanitationed as a engineer and figuring out where the rest of the body was because there was no sand where the ear was found, it was in a marsh, he is the sand to figure out the rest of the body was 12 miles away from where the ear was which is incredible, the cop said you are crazy, he said go look and they found the rest of the body,p then he spent a lotf time finding the rest of her killer. What i learnedlo about this oscr had a complicated relationship in the way he viewed women in the 1920s, he was very disturbed as were many men who were dressed sexy and provocative, i think he distrusted hollywood and the woman who he found the rest of her body and was later able to identify and the one who had affairs with multiple men. It was interesting what i read about this opinion, he never once change her as a victim i wouldve really expected, he was stodgy guy who thought hollywood was assuming everyone in mulholland, anyone who is not modest was problematic for the world and he really did not feel like that about thiss woman. He really wanted to find out who killed her, he wanted to know why and he worked for years to try to figure it out. I was really surprised by that. You touch on Something Else that i really think you do so well in the book is the time. Especially the 1920s, it really brings in the idea of hollywood and around the time that studio started to pass a stringent regulation on what can bear done in censorship for lack of a better word. And also oscars own opinion, i think at some point he believes that women are one of the reasons there is so much more crime now because there ladies. [laughter] i think that he felt that Young College women should wear courses and dances should be supervised and he was an oldfashioned man who sometimes i think why are you involved in this criminal world he really just felt repulsed by the whole thing and i do think that he felt that the freedom of women was problematic for young men who had impulse control issues but i think he also really felt very strongly that the victims was wrong and he wanted to write it. That was also problematic in tha case because i think one of the most Dangerous Things that any investigator can do and every and in here knows it, when you bring in your own feelings and biases into an investigation, then when you have your life and someone else you someone elses life in your hands, then there can be about outcome and he said six men to death row in one year. This is somebody who had a lot of power, when you read when hes going through this and its like, okay what isro going to happen and i start reading about his biased against hollywood and how he thinks he should hang for this and lose everything and go t jail forever, before all the evidence is done, thats when you think, this guy has a lot of power and that happens now, young people to do right and people do wrong and law enforcement, its another reminder. Did that way on him, did you get a sense that it weighed on him. Thats one thing i loved about him, i read like a thousand of his letters and i never once saw doubt and i never saw him apologize for anything, no doubt, no apologies, no remorse, not when waiver in his belief ever which is incredible to me. But he had incredible personal insecurity about the way that he performed in a courtroom, how people field him and a professor who looked like a crime novelist, about whether or not he was a horrible writer and entertaining horrible writer, so it was refreshing to see this guy, when you read the newspapers its like hes a superhero, they dont even name him with his first name sometime, is just kind rich, he solved another case, which he really is like saint sherlock but then to peel it back and realize he has all these incredible insecurities its amazing. I think thats another great thing, a gift that he was as a character and he was a guy who had a lott of amazing positives in terms of what he was doing professionally but he was also fraud and you were able to find that through all of these personal items that you are able to, letters and all these other things were able to uncover. What you get to know somebody, obviously by reading the collection and reading letters, its a little uncomfortable because he was writing about his insecurities, his childhood which was really difficult, he was describing to his best friend how he used to spend christmases that santa claus was never the santa claus and other kids had his santa claus, his wasus the one who woe the Salvation Army jacket and would come to his door and get him oranges, that was it because his family was in poverty in washington state. So you read that and you have to sit back and think it is difficult to think about now this is not a book that thousands of people are going to read that this is his personal feelings, it really was but it all fits into how he was a ma man its incredible to see somebody stay so controlled when people are attacking him when he sitting on a a witness stand and assorted falls apart when he is talking to his best friend andy has Police Detail outside of his house because hes afraid somebody will kill his wife whitneys going traveling. There is a lot of angst there. And somebody asked me what was the biggest moment for me in the book, this is maddening what happens but its like writing a book, i was about two weeks away from my deadline and i was up at three in the morning as usual and going through newspapers. Com which everybody who ever written anything does, i just changed up the spelling of his name, i never donealch it before, if you think theyre unreliable now, you should have seen them 40 or 50 years ago, my goodness. His name is felt so many different ways, so i did one more way every spelling his name and i found out how his dad died, i always wondered, i will not say it even though you want to, i ways wondered because he was so angry at his father in these letters to his oldest son, dont make these mistakes, your grandfather left me high and d dry, you cannot do this, i will not let you do the same thing to your child that my fatherr did o me and i can never figure out what happened and when i saw the newspaper articles i was like okay, it changed i had to email my editor and say give me a second, this is going to change some stuff. If those pivotal moments when youre exploring somebodys life it is incredible. And nobody gets that except you because you deepen that persons life. And he does not have any relatives, nobody is around, i know him better than anybody does. So im thrilled that this is something that i think is a fair representation of who he was, it is not all prim in roses, he was a jerk sometimes but it all came out a very specific reasons, he wanted things to be right and he wanted people to act right, he wanted things to be fair anyone of the right people to go to jail and the innocent people to stay out, that was a big goal for him. I want to open it up for questions, anybody that has a question. Microphone. I got asked, then american maury ottery. What i mean by that, was there anyone or any case that haunted him that he could not solve, did you pick up on that. If i did i would not say he was a more artery but he did have an adversarial expert who tortured him for probably 20 years and did publicly humiliate him for very long time until the guy finally died. And heinrich had a one up on him. There is a case in here were he was not able to figure it out and i think it really upset him for a long time and i do think it was a serial killer, thinkers and evidence to know this continued on. This is the time. When theyt had i think they said multiple murders, no, that would be great, ill look into that and thats a good title. [laughter] from a writing process perspective, when you are zeroing in on something is going to take a year or more of your life to start writing, how do you know when theres enough weight and that topic to actually make a book out of it. It is really hard. Sometimes its a leap of faith honestly. Because i knew that i had with 100 boxes, i got really excited about archives in the past and completely obsessed with doing something on alienist, forensic psychiatrist, when i get to see what it looks like that being said i did notal anticipate, ie seen the huge collections and ive dropped in and said let me get these boxes from the 19th century, i cannot read a thing or it was like 19th century shorthand that would cost 5 million to get translated. It is difficult because you do figure out in any collection that you are in, do you have enough can you, if its a biography, certainly, is there enough about the person, my editors really, really a no dont tell her i said that. [laughter] shes going to be watching on cspan. [laughter] she is incredibly picky about topics. That is good for me, its also really maddening but its really, really good because she will not put out a book that she does not think is going to be incredible so i will run things by her all the time. I have a folder of things that i almost called at the folder of things but i havent been able to get past michelle folder and i have several of them, they begin to be podcast because there really good stories that just dont have this that i talk about, why is it relevant, why is it relevant today, why do we care about forensics or air pollution. And why do we care about the criminal mind, at least with my editor i have to be able to justify that. The time period and is really how do we make this person more than just a guy who checks in and checks out of work and makes history, that is not enough. It has not been enough at least to my case. He has toto have flaws and he ds not have to be a cheater or a murder on the side or dexter that nobody knows about, he definitely needs to be a human that we allsi make mistakes and the differences i see his mistakes because his son gave us all the tools we needed to see for his mistakes. It is hard, i think thats the thing that most creative people grapple with is the categories, the newspaper articles, whats a magazine article, podcast, documentary, thehe book. A lot of times i will be convinced this is a book and i will be told no, i dont think so or this is what you need to add. I think if youre looking for any advice, is finding the mentor or somebody has that experience that says maybe this will work but you need a different perspective or another person or you need to add another character. For the book that i did there was not one pivotal character that couldve carried the entire book, we were just living in this world, we have these characters within the world but the air pollution is the story, its people operating inside of it. This is reversed, oscar hein ridge is the lens and were looking at these cases through his lens and every once in a while i pause and ith say realiy check, this is what Forensic Science really is at this time period. Any other questions . For real . Over here. So the family was extremely cooperative. Were they worried that you would see your interpretation of him. No pushback is good. When you alluded to his son, you ran through the letters and journals and things, everybody died off a long time ago which i have to be honest is ideal for me. [laughter] i do not like dealing with living people. [laughter] so with the first book i had, half of the characters had died already and i have the journals in half the people were still alive and i was able to interview them which is amazing because i fact check and call him back and say rosemary i know you told me that the carpet in the hearse that took you to your fathers funeral was his color but are you sure, give me more detail, the flipside of that and she will call me and say i i red the s book and you got my graden my c level exams wrong so theres six and one half and half a dozen inse another. When you have really old archives, i just love that in the time period before of the 1960. The fact that he kept everything and you had so much to work with, those moments where you took letters both sides of the conversation ended does really read as if were reading their actual conversation. I willl say part of that is not limiting myself to just the archive into said he has these two sons, did they do anything that was remarkable. It was almost like that i ran across theodores in canada so i had to call the university in canada and see how much it was going to cost for them to give me digital copies and he had like 2000 letters from oscar hein ridge and i cannot really fly out there and read through them so i had to have them do everything. I read a lot and i making ultimo pdfs and categorizing everything in a color. Code stuff and its hard to organize all of that. One last question for folks who are working on a project that are certainly going to archives, its a great way to do it but do you have any otherwa suggestions for somebody working on historical narrative nonfiction in terms of the verses that used. Newspapers. Com i used half ad archive. Org in books in google that, hat hi. Particular without going click on it and ill put edward oscar hein ridge and thats another thing is figuring out how people are spilling your names and it will give not every newspaper article but every academic paper hes ever done in journal and it was like 100,000 hits, anything you ever mention. Then your jumping down a rabbit hole but i think its hard when you ask where you find ideas, i founded a wikipedia that the incredible picture, so this i bought p a book that was the criminal encyclopedia of criminals from the programs from the 1970s. [laughter] i looked through it and he was on page 100 and ill never see the name of the book because i dont want anybody else to do that, it is my book. For every book all of her right that will come out of that book i know it. You guys go downstairs and see if they have that book. [laughter] i want to say one very important thing and for those people who want to write letters about brad pitts relevancy [laughter] this book is wonderful and i hopepe you all will pick up a copy, multiple copies and i could talk to you truly all day about this but thank you so much for letting me be a part of this, can we give kate a big round of applause. [applause] now youre going to sign books. Thank you guys a for coming, im from austin, this is my book bibook launch event. Give them a round of apostasy have to put up with all this research. [applause] you are watching a special edition of book tv, area now during the week while members of congress serving their districts due to the coronavirus outbreak. Tonight i look at pandemics, first the National Institute of Health Jeremy brown provided the history of the 1918 flu pandemic, his thoughts on how prepared we are for the next major outbreak. Then a discussion about viruses from the 2016 brooklyn festival featuring paul zimmer and ed young and later john barry describes the 1918 flu pin democrat that kills as many as 100 people worldwide. Enjoy book tv now and over the weekend on cspan2. Your watching a special edition booktv area now during the week while members of congress are in their districts. Because of the coronavirus pandemic on thursday night a look at crime, first Joshua Hammer tells the story of the black market, animal smuggling operation reports on related international and Domestic Trade regulation and university of texas journalism professional kate Winkler Dawson looks at the life of edward Oscar Heinrich, the americas first forensic scientist. And later Jack Goldsmith of assistant attorney general george of the bush administration, he recalls the life of the stepfather who was an associate of teamsters leader jimmy hoffa. Enjoy book tv now and over the weekend on cspan2. Television has changed since cspan began 41 years ago but our Mission Continues to provide an unfiltered view of government. Already this year we brought you primary election coverage, the president ial impeachment process and now the federal response to the coronavirus. You can watch all of cspan Public Affairs programming on television, online or listen on the free radio app and be part of the National Conversation through cspan daily Washington Journal Program or through our social media feed. Cspan, created by private industry, americas Cable Television company, as a public surface and brought to today by your television provider. Its my honor to join a mentor, a guide, a role model and whatever societies truce leaders, doctor freeman hrabowski. I have to start with a new book called the mpower university. What exactly