I can very much, steve, are coming. [applause] thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks everyone and good day here delighted that you could come this afternoon. Im delighted to be in San Francisco, one of the most beautiful cities in the world. And particularly to talk about jessie and john fremont who it so much to do with the creation of california as we know it. And so much to do with the creation of San Francisco as we know it. I got into summer cisco about 2 30 a. M. On a delayed flight from los angeles. Got a couple of hours of sleep in an Airport Hotel and then woke up again because i was to be picked up by a car and driven up the highway into San Francisco to do a live radio thing on kqed. The thing about live radio is it begins at a very exact time. The thing about going through San Francisco traffic is that youre you are really not going to make your exact time. I was supposed to be 8 a. M. That i would be there for the National Radio and at 80 m im still the road in the back of this car creeping up the freeway at i dont know, seven miles an hour, nine miles an hour, what if it was. Im looking at the right side of the car in San Francisco bay is out there and the city of San Francisco our the Southern Suburbs is spurting out in front of me and im missing a deadline which is a horrifying thing for journalist to do but it just thinking to myself, this is the world that fremonts made. [laughing] for better, sometimes worse but it is one of the most wonderful cities and i seize any opportunity to get here. Was delighted to be researching this book in part because i knew it would give me an excuse to do some research in and around San Francisco. It is the story of two people, the story of a marriage and their ambitions and adventures anytime when the United States was deeply divided and seemed to be in danger of coming apart. Imperfect union refers to the union of american states at the time somebody outlawed slavery and others embraced it. Also refers to this marriage of this very unusual couple who strove to accomplish and achieve all that they could in that very divisive time, and it played a vital role in it. John Charles Fremont was an explorer, a man who in the 1840s and 50s in a series of expeditions started in st. Louis, missouri, which was then the westernmost city of any consequence in the United States. And went out as a use army officer, hired skilled civilians to go along with him, and map the oregon trail. Map of the roots, when at west again and again. Ultimately, ended up by chance in california, was intrigued as people are when they come to california, and then returned a couple of years later, id hear later to this mexican controlled territory with a party of 60 gunmen and begin the process of taking over california from mexico and making it part of the United States. As an explorer he did not actually discover that much that was new. He was traveling across a land that had been traversed by native nations for centuries, that have been explored by spaniards, that had been explored by fur trappers. He didnt find all that much that was actually new, but he codified it, they did acceptable, making good maps, and more important he was coming back east to washington where he was based, washington, d. C. , and writing account of his adventures. His job was not really to explore the west but to promote the west, to entice american settlers to move to the west because that was part of the process of taking over the territory and ensuring it would become part of the United States. In the process of promoting the American West in the 1840s and 50s, he also promoted himself. He would write these accounts that would just official use army reports but he would write them like a novel and he would describe the landscape of the Rocky Mountains and of the oregon trail and of the great basin which he named the vast area ring in by mountains that encompasses most of nevada and utah and parts of several other states. He would also describe california very beautifully and very evocatively. And he became such an extraordinarily famous and admired individual through his writings and his apparent achievements, that in 1850 the was a magazine that named john fremont as one of the three most important world historical figures since of jesus christ. It was kind of an american centric list. The first of the three figures what Christopher Columbus discovered america, as they wouldve said then, establish european contacts with america would be a better way to phrase it i guess. The second was george washington, the founder of this country, and then the third was John C Fremont whose greatest achievement who got them on the list was his role come his reputation as the conqueror of california, adding el dorado as a magazine described it, to the union, to the United States. He had real talent, real courage, real fortitude and real accomplishments. But as i write, the most important factor of trantwo fame may been the person who made it possible for him to take full advantage of both his talent and the times. Jessie Benton Fremont, his wife, one when women are allowed to make few choices for themselves, jessie found a way to chart her own course. The daughter of a senator who was deeply involved in the west, she provided her previously unknown husband with entree to the highest levels of government immediate. It was no coincidence his career began to soar a few months after they eloped when he was 28 and she was 17. I thought as many others did, said one of the critics, that Jessie Benton fremont was the better man of the two. She helped to write his famous reports and some of this letter serves as secretary, editor, writing partner, and occasional ghost writer. She amplified his talent for self promotion working with editors to publicize his journeys. She became his political advisor. She attract talented young man to his circle, promoted friends, and lashed out at enemies. She carried on conversations with senators twice her age, offered her opinion to president s even when they did not agree with her, and was gradually recognized as a Political Force in her own right. Her timing was as perfect as her husbands. She was pushing the boundaries of womens assigned roles just as women were beginning to grant a larger place in national life. In 1840s and 50s 50s women were holding conventions to call for Voting Rights and also campaigning against slavery. The Republican Party was founded in the 1850s to fight the expansion of slavery, and captured some of their energy. In 1856, the republicans for the first time nominated a president ial candidate and in seeking someone heroic and famous and also with a short political record, to bind the party together, the nominated john Charles Fremont, the first nominee ever to run for president on the Republican Party ticket, and antislavery candidate. And when john was nominated for president , jessie became part of the campaign in ways that no woman ever had. Her husbands Campaign Literature featured songs of praise for jessie. It nearly seemed like they were running for president. Women attended Campaign Rallies even though they couldnt vote. Thousands of republicans blocked the Fremont House for a glimpse of john on the balcony and then refused to leave until they saw jessie, to hear madame fremont, they cried. Jessie, jessie, give us jessie. A a newspaper said she couldve been elected queen. Jessie Benton Fremont achieved celebrity much like her husbands with same out of proportion to accomplishments. Unless we count her husbands fame among those accomplishments. This is to me a very modern story, because it is a story about rugged wilderness challenges but also a story about fame, about what you make of the work that you do, about reputation. It was a time when the news media were expanding when democracy was flourishing, whn great issues were being debated and the fremonts put themselves the center of it all. The first thing that had to happen for them though was the actual exploration, the mapmaking of the west. John c. Fremont had a reputatio reputation, build the reputation as an utterly fearless adventurer who surmounted one difficulty after another. Although he was also in reality a rather erratic leader, he would hire groups of civilians, maybe a couple dozen, sometimes more, in st. Louis and head out into the wilderness. In 1842 in the and the First Expedition he commanded, he went up the oregon trail as far as what is now wyoming, went to the Continental Divide there which was supposed to be is in the point, and at that point his mission was effectively done and you supposed to go back home by some other route doing some more mapmaking along the way. But reaching the Continental Divide for him turned out to be kind of anticlimactic. It was a little boring. He was in the past where he was hard to figure where the Continental Divide whats that its tied the thing got to do is climb the tallest mountain that he could see. He took some of his men and went up the highest mountain that he could see, and they decided part we have to abandon the noodles s that they been taken because the ground was getting rough and the peak seemed like it was just right there and so they left behind with the mules food, most of the other supplies and even their coats. It was summer, but theyre getting in some altitude. It didnt take long to understand that they misread the ground ahead of them. What looked like a direct ascent concealed more bows that figure to navigate. They were reaching altitudes where snow covered the ground even in august and one of the men nearly slid off a snowy slope and over a precipice to his death picky stayed himself only by dropping flat undersurface to gain traction. Exhausted in the thin air, the party stop for the night just below the tree line around 10,000 feet above sea level. They try to hunt a Mountain Goat for dinner, and failed. They tried to sleep without the blankets on a slab of granite. Lieutenant fremont begin to experience severe headaches and to vomit. His Leadership Group erratic the next day. He led his party lose cohesion as a clambered appeal across broken ground. They split into ones and twos taking divergent routes through the rocks and snow which meant they could not easily help one another. The matchmaker on expedition, a german immigrant, was walking alone at the top of the snowy slope when he lost his footing and begin sliding. There was no way to stop. He continued some 200 feet before he crashed into rocks at the bottom and was lucky to somersault over the first rock in a way that broke no bones. Afterward, he was found by johnny, a black man who is a member of the expedition who brought word that lieutenant fremont with vomiting again, as were others. The double over fremont sent word, message that he should try to reach the summit. He had brought a barometer which they could use to measure the altitude of the mountain. Not being an idiot, he refused to go on, went back to camp. He assumed that this meant that the effort to reach the summit was done. In camp, mr. Mattis to couldnt bring up a little bit the food so that the first meal in nearly two days pick then they had a s sleep, and charles woke in the morning expecting everyone with this in the mountain but discovered otherwise. John reminded him that they had brought along a bottle of brandy. Well, i hope we shall after all into a glass on top of the mountain. Which was the second dehydrated lieutenant way that he intended to keep climbing. Fremont took extraordinary risks well beyond what seemed necessary for the mission at hand and gain certain rewards. They eventually by the way did reach the top of that mountain completed an American Flag and john in a brilliant bit of Public Relations looking around at the mounds around him decide without any evidence whatsoever that he had just climb the highest peak in all of north america. [laughing] later expiration expression ret it was not among the top 100 peaks in the Rocky Mountains but it took a long time to realize that. This was 1842, 14 years 14 years later when he ran for president , there were still images been published of him surmounting the highest point in the Rocky Mountains. It was part of his campaign. Biography was part of the same, part of why he was nominated for president geography. In spreading word of his accomplishments, jessie was crucial. His editor, the first person who would hear his story when he came back, a person who would sometimes take dictation of the stories that he had to tell, a person who would receive his letters that he would occasionally managed to send by various means from out west. She would receive them in washington and take them to newspaper editors and have been published, to publicize his various achievements. He seemed to know that this is going to be the case with some of his letters read like press releases. Her letters read like love letters their case letters red like press releases. But they took advantage of the fact that there was a quickening National Conversation and the phone that just ring is actually symbolic in very good for this moment so dont feel embarrassed about that at all. Because this is a period when weekly newspapers which is been around in america for a long time were becoming daily newspapers. There would always been a few of them but there were more and more daily newspapers. And the information in the papers was being celebrated more and more because of the invention of the telegraph. In 1844, samuel fb morse succeeded in stringing copper wires from washington, d. C. From the United States capital in fact, all the way up to baltimore where the Democratic National convention was being held, and he had at the logger for at the baltimore and send word of each department at the convention back to morse himself in washington and morse was deciphering his own code that bears his name and reading aloud to a crowd of eventually hundreds of people at the capital the latest news development. Like he was the first news anchor. There are remarkable accounts of people marveling at this idea of instant communication. The annihilation of space as more than one person called it, who could imagine the possibilities once people could learn about any event anywhere instantly . Professor morse telegraph, correspond for the New York Herald said, has originated in the mind a new species of consciousness never before was anyone a conscious that he knew what events were at that moment passing in a distant city, 40 or 100 or 500 miles off. In reading that paragraph, we realized that we are witnessing in 1844 the dawn of the era that we are living in today, that we are swamped by today, that were struggling with today. It is instructive to see how people struggled with it at the very beginning. Because there was this development that seemed as surely short as the number of Silicon Valley firms today to hold out the possibility of bringing the world closer together of improving our understanding of each other. And while it did that in many ways, also many ways in which it drove the world apart. This became apparent by the president ial campaign of 1856, that campaign in which john Charles Fremont was nominated by the republicans as an antislavery candidate in the first election weather was a major party that was meaningful opposed to the spread of human slavery. Always before the event necessary for any National Party to appeal for southern votes to have any chance of winning and so they tried very hard to remain silent about slavery or to be actively proslavery. This party was different. Northerners had realize there was a demographic change going on in america, that the northern population had grown much more rapidly than in the south, but that created an opportunity to elect a president with northern votes alone. Which made it a very dangerous time because the south you that as an effort to cut them out of power, to profoundly threatened the institution around which they structure their economy and their society. And they said, many southerners said that if republicans were ever to win an election, they would leave the union. They would secede from the union. There was a battle going on over the western states, over whether slavery should be allowed to spread in the western states. There was violence in kansas which was proposed to be a new territory, antislavery and proslavery forces were fighting over. And the dispute over kansas triggered Political Violence in washington itself. Republican senator Charles Sumpter of massachusetts delivered a lengthy talk in may 1856 of what he called the crime of kansas, and in an especially weathering passage he mocked a South Carolina senator named Andrew Butler for his incoherent phrases and the loose expectoration of his speech while opposing kansas as a free state. There was no possible deviation from truth which he did not make. Can you imagine the idea of a politician [laughing] deviating from the truth . Senator butler was not present for this tirade but butlers nephew learned of the speech afterward and considered it an insult to his family. The nephew Preston Brooks was a member of the house of representatives. He walked across the capital to the senate chamber, found sumpter writing at his desk, and beat him again and again with a heavy cane until he was unconscious. Works kept thrashing and even after the cane broke into pieces over sumpter his head. Now that the conflict had reached one of the Principal Media centers, the country learned of every detail. The telegraph and daily newspapers allow people across vast distances to read about the caning almost simultaneously entry daily updates as for the facts became known. Nothing like this would have been possible a decade earlier. The news was filtered through northern and southern editors which meant that northerners and southerners were simultaneously reading different versions of the same event. A witness quoted in a chicago newspaper said that sumpter was ambushed, him and at his desk and beaten mercilessly until he had by great effort toward his desk from its his fastenings ad then he pitched forward and fell to the floor. A correspondent for South Carolina charleston courier all but rolled his eyes. The telegraph had overspread 1001 stories about this transaction, he wrote, many of them incorrect. Sumpter was beaten, it was true, but not so badly. Hes not seriously hurt. His whole speech was of a character very irritating to southern men. In the South Reading this description celebrated the caning. And voted prizes for the congressman who had administered the beating. And then Something Else happened. As quickly as the telegraph had spread the news of the caning everywhere, it spread the southern reaction across the north. Readers of the New York Herald unfolded the papers to discover extended excerpts of the seven press raising chivalrous congressman brooks for beating the senate of massachusetts, and this was a new phenomenon in itself. Masses of americans learn not only of a disturbing event more rapidly rapidly than ever before but also that other americans celebrated the very event that horrified them. It changed the political calculus in 1856. It became a way that americans were driven apart rather than together by the sudden speed and force of this information. Americans learn something about each other, and they did not like what they learned about one another. They struggled with it then. We struggle with that phenomenon now. Its one of the great challenges of our time. The campaign of 1856 is to me profoundly revealing, and speaks again and again to today, because of needy environment and because of issues. The questions americans facing 1856 included all gets to be american, who gets to be equa. There was the debate over slavery but not only slavery, it was a profound debate at the same time over immigration, a movement against immigrants had arisen in the country. The people who were at the heart of this movement refer to themselves as native americans, by which they meant nativeborn white people, not indians. And they were aware that the immigrants could sway elections, and endorsed the various proposals to prevent immigrants from voting. They would often organize rallies provocative rallies moving into immigrant neighborhoods in places like new york city knowing that this would provoke violence, provoke a reaction from irish emigrants, say, so they would do it again until he got the reaction they wanted. In pushing against immigration, some americans were actually pushing against a dangerous and alien religion, catholicism. The pope was described as a sinister plot or who to use immigrants to take control of the United States and change it from what it had always been, a protestant nation. And all of this became part of the president ial campaign. John Charles Fremont had been born the illegitimate son of an immigrant, a french immigrant named Charles Fremont with a slightly different spelling, who had fallen in love with the virginia aristocrat. They ran away together and had children including john even though her divorce was never granted. So a he was the son of an immigrant but in the newspapers in 1856 campaign and also newspapers in 1856 campaign, they changed him from the son of an immigrant to an immigrant who had been born outside the United States and, therefore, was ineligible for the presidency. There were birth errs in 1856, and even worse, they begin producing evidence that john trowels fremont was catholic that john Charles Fremont was catholic, that he was a foreigner born somewhere else and adherent to this alien religion. This was part of the campaign against john Charles Fremont, and incredibly bitter and nasty election with a great deal at stake. A fight to restrict slavery in the United States, a fight over who got to be counted as american, a threat to break up the union if the election result came the wrong way, a threat to destroy the system. And there were no Public Opinion polls, so you look to the documents of the time and historians who carefully studied this election and use politicians trying to calculate from different evidence who would win, who would lose, and they didnt truly know your couple things were beginning to look rather desperate for the republican side, against the democratic James Buchanan in late october. On friday night, october 31, republicans planned a mass gathering in new york city for mechanics and workmen. Republican clock read Horace Greeley is new york tribune called it one of the largest and most enthusiastic gatherings ever seen their but a large number of ladies graced the meeting by their presence, ladies, women were involved in this president ial campaign because women have been involved in the campaign against slavery and the new party captured some other energy even though they could not vote. They had seized as we heard a symbol, Jessie Benton fremont if they had made her as famous as him. So they are running for president in a way and ladies are gracing the meeting by their presence. A group that called itself the Rocky Mountain glee club saying a rallying song for fremont. There should still be a Rocky Mountain glee club. [laughing] and when the cheering crowd looked up at one of the private boxes in the theater, based by their candidate. This is a time when president ial candidates did not campaign by the way. They didnt go out in public. That was considered undignified. They would avoid making speeches. If they had to make a speech they would avoid saying anything meaningful. If they were forced to Say Something meaningful, they would write it in a letter to a friend which would be leaked to the newspapers. They stayed out of sight. There is no record of even a single tweet by either president ial candidate in 1856. Not a single record single record of that. But on this evening in this theater in new york city, people looked up and spied their candidate who in a deviation from ordinary practice had chosen to attend the event with his wife. John Charles Fremont, illegitimate son of an immigrant, inventor of his own name, young man on the make, survivor of snowstorms and hunger, feigned the unmeasured, wounded by his experiences and often lost inside his own head was granted one evening to take in the applause. Beside john in the theater box set Jessie Benton fremont who had chosen her husband she eloped with him, for his absences and his children, then exalted him and protected him from that which he could not bear. Jessie who wanted nothing more than a girl than to be her fathers assistant who had made her mark on the world even when that which was denied and what lost her father when she stood up for what she believed was right. Because her father, United States senator, would not support their campaign for president. One of the speakers at the academy of music that eating was henry b stanton, the man with mutton chop whiskers and deep set eyes, a writer reform and abolitionist vicki was married to Elizabeth Cady stanton, one of the womens rights activists who a few years earlier had attended the convention at seneca falls urging womens rights to vote. On this night mr. Stanton offered his vision of the stakes of the election, whether not western territories would be ruined by what he called the curse of human slavery. Stanton said he was certain the republican president ial candidate was protestant, but he also said it didnt matter. I would rather be ruled over for the next four years by a liberty loving catholic who is to do the union than by slavery loving protestant. The crowd applauded. When election to arise stanton said we will touch of those courts which will vibrate down the best of the future and which will not cease to reverberate until good or evil the republic shall cease to exist. That weekend it was sunday, november 2, jessie wrote a letter to her best friend lucy. Just means of certain democratic postmasters were reading her mail, like a hack at the dnc r something. [laughing] that she facetiously wrote on the inside of the letter postmaster, please send as soon as red to mrs. Lee. [laughing] she then said i dont dare say anything more than to tell you we may be successful. Telegraphs will do the rest. In 1845, congress had passed a law creating a single president ial election day, sweeping away an old practice were different states voted over a period of weeks. There was going to be when election day, the first tuesday of the term the first monday in november which making 36 would be two days later, november 4. The telegraph wires would bring results from across the country. As quickly as each state ballots could be collected and counted. We know the end of the story because john Charles Fremont did not become president. In fact, he must stand in history as the man who was defeated for election at the worst president according to many historians in history of the United States. James buchanan one the presidency, and declared that the union had been say. He was a pennsylvanian and in northern or but with Southern Connections and he declared the union had been saved. And having one election he been manipulated the courts. He lobbied the Supreme Court for what is now known as the dred scott decision, declaring that africanamericans were not citizens and that the declaration of independence and the part where is that all men are treated equal did not actually mean that. An effort to codify slavery for all time, but something happened. I told you about that demographic change in america, that the northern states were more populous than the southern states, that an effort had been made to win the presidency with northern votes alone which fell narrowly short in 1856. But four years later republicans tried it again with a candidate named Abraham Lincoln who had campaign for john Charles Fremont in in 1856, by the way. They succeeded. The south then did follow through on its threat to destroy the system. They seceded from the union and fired the first shot in the civil war. But at the end of that war, shortly after the end of that war, lincoln in the last days of his life, pushed through a constitutional amendment outlawing slavery. Which was a leap in Human Progress that no one i do want to send a want. That relatively few political leaders were even willing to contemplate at the time of this story of 1856. A leap in Human Progress that built on the story that is told in imperfect union, the story of this imperfect couple struggling imperfectly forward, pursuing their own ambitions, often wrong, often biased, often bigoted themselves, often harmful to others, sometimes helpful to each other, what ultimately thrashing as we all try to do, as we all hope to do, toward the light. Thank you for taking a little time to listen today. I really appreciated. The book is called imperfect union and ill be happy to take questions about it. [inaudible] speak about his book on jessie and john fremont. Will take the first question. Do you know what . Im a guy. I want to hear from women. Either women here who wants to go first . Is a woman here who wants to go first, or denunciation or anything . Really . No questions at all . No discrimination against you, sir. I know we will would get the user. You might say your name of it. My name is joy. Thank you so much for your talk and your book. It was fascinating. Im curious how you think californias history has been at this period in history, kind of shape the union all versus the role in my viewpoint today. Sometimes the more progressive is very dispersed state and if theres threats of its original history that are relevant to our politics till today. It was an amazingly diverse state at the very beginning. Up until the gold rush of course the majority of the population was native, and then the were a few thousand mexican and a few thousand american settlers, and the other kinds of people, immigrants, chinese here in the very early date although not in the numbers that would come later there were lots of different kinds of people, but it was at the beginning of a ste with a really reactionary political leadership. California became a state in 1850s in 1850. One senator elect was John C Fremont and one of the first things he did in his brief senate term was proposed a bill to regulate the goldrush. Which was kind of the Silicon Valley of its time. This event people making ridiculous amounts of money and also transforming the wider economy, and fremont was a part of this. He had come back to california in 1849 after the mexican war, after the conquest of california. He happen to have acquired land during the war, and ran into some mexican migrants had come north to seek their fortune and he sent them to his land to prospect, and they made him fantastically rich with very little effort on his part. So we have benefited from the goldrush. He had benefited from immigrant. He had benefited from mexicans, and then as a senator proposed a gold mining regulation bill saying you must buy a permit to prospect for gold and the permit shall be limited to United States citizens. Im a u. S. Citizen. Im favor of u. S. Citizens as a much person but the debate on the floor of the u. S. Senate made it explicit that the purpose of this legislation was to shove aside various races and nationalities of people. Fremont himself in wanting to get reelected, and picking up the deserts of his white constituents, that that the mexicans will be attracted north or just a really bad class of people and he didnt want any more of them. The very kind to people who it made him ridiculously rich. Nobody seemed to want chinese at all, if i know what i mean the white men who were debating this in the senate but then other lawmakers stood up and said wait a minute, theres some immigrants who are good. The european ones, and this was not purely a matter of racism. Its also a matter of practicality. There were some states that had been settled by european immigrants like wisconsin and iowa, brenda states, these were states were emigrants were not citizens brandnew states. Were not yet citizens but were allowed to vote. In a surprising turn of events, the senators who depend on the votes, the immigrants, he came proam a great and they decided to amend this bill so that the permits would be for u. S. Citizens and european immigrants of good character. Well, while still the agreeing nobody wanted any mexicans there. There were a lot of things driving this. There was a limited number of white men have just taken over this area from another country that is lots of different kinds of people and they wanted to control it. They did not more than a handful of indians getting the right to vote. They did what africanamericans their adult. California approved a constitution as a free state. It was profoundly influential in the full battle between free and slave states the part of the recent california did that was because there were White Californians who did not want to compete in the goldfields against some guy with a bunch of african slaves. Having banned slavery would sound so moral and right, the very same Constitutional Convention came very close to banning black people at all. From coming to california. It was a profoundly racist time, and yet it was a profoundly diverse place and time. Which is a really vital thing i think to understand about our history. We have debate now about who was including history, who participates, whose stories where telling, and its a wonderful moment in that we are hearing more stories told from the perspective of slates, told from the perspective of other africanamericans, told from e perspective of immigrants. What it want to do and a narrative like this is weve all of that together so that you hear from the white guy but you also hear from his wife and you hear from an African American like Frederick Douglass who is very influential at the time and you encounter some of the indians that some of these characters encountered, and you have an opportunity to see the different perspective of things and understand how different kinds of people, the push and pull between them in this emerging democracy made the nation that we have today. In simple answer to your question, california was hugely significant in that progress. Ill take another question. Go ahead. How do you think things wouldve developed had fremont defeated buchanan for president . Wow. One possibility had fremont won 1856 1856 is a civil war would have come then. The southcom so the leaders were saying this will destroy the universe we will secede from the union if the republicans win. We know they were not bluffing or we think they were not bluffing because four years later when lincoln won they seceded. Couldve happened then. Fremont couldve been the president instead of Abraham Lincoln, and i want to note that when the civil war did, fremont was a general on the genie inside. Turned out to be revealed as a much more erratic leader than people thought he was, and many of his former supporters concluded that while they favored his election actually making 56, they thanked god cant not actually won picked because they thought the result could then much more terrible had this guy who just was not aa political thinker in the way lincoln was had been president. Go ahead. My name is julie and i was wondering while only significant things are going on, was jessie working with groups of women to try to earn the vote . No. Its really interesting that she was picked up as a symbol. Jessie, i dont know that jessie wouldve would ever really embraced the word feminist. I think of her in the way i think of dolly parton. I dont know if you guys have heard the amazing series of podcasts about dolly parton in the last few months, but theres a lot of discussion in the podcasts which includes interviews with her about how dolly parton is a hero to feminists because she not only saying, she became her own boss and she charted her own course and shes an incredibly talented songwriter and person as well as a singer and performer. But feminist is not a label that dolly parton wanted to embrace. She was doing that in her own life but didnt want to be ideologically there. I think of Jessie Benton fremont the same way. She grew up with this his voic, her grandfathers name, cut or self educated like a boy, ultimately forced back into traditional gender roles and didnt reject them. She was a wife, mother, she she took care of kids. She dealt with the grief of losing children in infancy which is really, then. She did all of those things. She stayed at home while her husband went out across the world and yet she also wanted to be politically engaged and politically active and have something to say in her fathers officials in meetings and at something to say to the president of the United States and then the president after that, and she was of the managers of her husbands presidency campaign. She was in every way in that respect a feminist. But when some years after the election of 1856, Elizabeth Cady sent came to her and said you are very rich, jessie, would you mind making a a contribution to the Womens Suffrage Movement . Chassis and this response what im not sure i want to do that. I think that women in their present condition manage men better. [laughing] she later changed her mind, but thats another of many things that feels profoundly modern about this story. If you think about the complicated relationship that a great number of people have with the word feminist, you see jessie without the word present in the discussion. You see jessie wrestling with those embracing issues well more than a century ago. Time for another question. Go for it. Good afternoon and welcome to our little town. Thank you. I disclosure moment. Im Charles James ricks, a retired professor of communication studies. Going to be tough. They all say that and i never have figured out why. But to the point, my intrigue is with the public expressions of peoples persona to help us understand them in a public way. I wonder if you could close the gap at least for me just a little bit. In your profile of Jessie Benton fremont that in your presentation of her shes an assertive, active person with Many Political and social interests from feminism to suffrage. But what remains in a representation of her, primarily published, are largely nice pieces of appreciation for wild animals, enjoyment of my grizzly bear, for example, enjoyment of the great outdoors. And it does seem to be a space between what remains of her presentation itself and this other side of her which you paint. How can that be narrowed even just a little bit . You need to go through Jessie Benton fremont many writings and find information outside the text often to understand what shes really saying. The epigraph of this book, which im going to flip to just make sure i did it exactly correct, is a quote from Jessie Benton fremont who said, it would hardly do to tell the whole truth about everything. [laughing] one of the ways that she [inaudible] it is tweaked length, is in it . One of the way she shaped her husbands image was by suppressing embarrassing information about them as those promoting things that she viewed to be positive. She sort of wrote the same way. There is a wonderful memoir of hers called the year of American Travel which describes one of her journeys to california. It in syria in San Francisco and acumen the description of San Francisco as it was a bin. She finally gets there and describes it as this collection of shacks thats rapidly growing up the hills, just a complete nightmare city, people finally got there on the ship that had gone down after panama and at the other way and the finally see San Francisco and its so horrifying that almost about to get off the ship. But she writes this book, and the beginning of the book is filled with references to her depression, to her despair, to the nightmares that she was having. Its really deeply evocative material except if we just picked up the book and didnt know much about her, you wouldnt really know what she was saying because she left something out. And that is that just days before the story began, her infant son had died. And days after the infant son died, her husband left on one of his expeditions to the west. She doesnt mention the death. Once you understand that, you understand what shes saying with all of these references and descriptions to you understand her friend of mine. She would leave out vital bits of information out of privacy, out of a kind of victorian sense of propriety, perhaps out of a sense that you need to be tough because of women lost children in infancy or in childbirth, or died themselves of childbirth. You had to steal yourself for that. She left out this vital fact, but theres enough in those writings a fine the wider context to understand at times was going on with her. Also at the very end of her life she wrote a fascinating unpublished memoir, which is full of anecdotes, strange anecdotes about her life, not entirely reliable. In fact, in some instances definitely untrue but even in instances where she got the facts wrong, the way she got them wrong is revealing. You just have to read really closely and go for context, which is true of lots of things including lots of peoples tweets, by the way. [laughing] we still have time for three or four more questions. You alluded at the beginning of your talk jessie is conversation with president and, of course, theres that famous confrontation at the white house between her and a really good. I dont know if thats covered in the book but it wonder if you might talk about her general the couples relationship with lincoln, opposition. Actually to my book focuses on 1840s and 50s but but theres epilogue mr. Coons over that and it is some of the most fascinating parts of their lives, is the civil war. John Charles Fremont was appointed a Union General in missouri in 1851 by president lincoln. Facing insurrection with insufficient military forces, he took what was seen as an extreme measure of freeing the slaves of people who were disloyal. President lincoln was not yet ready to be freeing slaves. There were still slave states in part of the union. He wanted to keep them in. He didnt want to directly order fremont to change his policy because that would be embarrassing, but he made it clear he wanted fremont itself to withdraw the order. Fremont, being in many ways a persistent guy, which is a good thing, but also a stubborn guy, which could be bad, same quality, depends on the circumstance, refused lincolns order. This went on for weeks and weeks, and lincoln repeated what he wanted done, and finally john agreed to send jessie back to washington to set Abraham Lincoln straight. She gets on the train. She goes back to washington. She checks into hotel or whatever, she sends a note over to the white house saying she would like to see the president any time convenient for you, and a letter comes back from lincoln, or a note comes back from lincoln. Its got one word. The single word is no. So she goes over now, and she starts talking to lincoln who has very little to say, and she explains why the freeing of the slaves is really good and is going to help them keep control of missouri and its going to play really well in europe. Lincoln finally says, you are quite a female politician. This is according to a letter by Jessie Benton fremont written not too much afterward. She felt that lincoln just wasnt listening. Lincoln felt that he understood the strategic situation and what was necessary at the time, and he did not need to lose the state of kentucky. Which is one of the slave states still in the union. He did not need to lose slave states in a way that might cause him to lose the war and then you dont free any slaves. He had a different point of view. Ultimately, he fired general fremont. Fremont was still very famous, was a big deal in the Republican Party so lincoln gave him a second assignment as a general in another part of the country where he quickly lost a battle. He turned up to be a brilliant explore and self promoter but not a a very good general at a. And he was sidelined again. In 1864, so this was lincolns reelection, john Charles Fremont allowed himself to be put forward as a candidate against Abraham Lincoln as a more radical version of Abraham Lincoln. Ultimately, he backed off but not until about september of 1864. There was a danger had he stayed in the race that he might have split the republican vote and cost Abraham Lincoln to lose reelection. I think this is part of the reason that the fremonts are not as well known today as they might be. Because nobody has ever gone up against a ramp lincoln and fared well in history. I mean think about the people jefferson davis, not really wellregarded. You know, lincolndouglas, you kind of vaguely remember who that guy douglas was but not nearly as much as lincoln. And the fremonts also were diminished by that experience. But its also, its a fascinating story and its really amazing. I mean, if you choose to buy the book there is an account of the speech that lincoln gave on behalf of john Charles Fremont in 1856, and its really a deeply moving speech. Which includes the line by lincoln, come to the rescue of the principle of equality. Go ahead. My name is david and one of the things i found fascinating about your talk and your answer to some of the questions is a parallel between fremont climb and under them when it isnt anymore if you want to share with us. My goodness, the demographic change is a big one. We are are in a time of great demographic change which makes people nervous because people see a change in power in that. The groups are growing more rapidly in this country. Younger people, people of color, immigrants we could go on and then a bunch of different kinds of people, can develop more for one party than the other end that has a lot of some democrats to think confidently that they can win elections without compromising so much with conservatives. And it has cause republicans to feel that they are in their minds unfairly being shot out of power in in a way that seems vy familiar. And republicans havent always spoken explicitly about this, but President Trump is known for speaking explicitly about things. In the 2016 campaign he told supporters this is your last chance to save the country. Your last chance for your side to win. He was suggesting that as the country continue to change, that if his side did not do something now, they would be out of power forever. And i think thats, here is to live for many of his supporters. We now have democrats who are concerned about being forever shut out of power by a president who is appointing conservative judges to lifetime appointments, who has constantly talk about illegals voting as a way it seems to encourage efforts to limit certain peoples voting participation, and he was said yes, the right to do whatever he wants as president. And democrats look at all that and see someone who is poised to wipe out the system. And i think that is part of the reason that this is such a tense time. People are not merely fearful of losing an election. They are fearful of losing forever, which means that we will need as citizens i think to keep our heads and keep our perspective during this election that is now beginning. Are there women who want any more questions . Go ahead. My name is tom, thank you so much for the presentation and the back row of long line of story of both these people. Could you give a little quick timeline of fremont and just these time in california works his arrival has got several kind of controversial points to it from north to south during the mexicanamerican war, and then they settled as mentioned here over by yosemite, and just how at one point i believe he was courtmartialed for his role in his activities in california and having navigated that and have he will ultimately be viewed by californians. Began the process of taking over future state and the california part of the mexican war until 1847, but was involved in a conflict between an army general and a Navy Commodore who both said they were in charge in california and fremont chose the wrong guy to support and ultimately was court martialed. He was granted clemency by james polk because he was a hero and, then he returned with the gold rush and he encountered a group of mexicans and had his land prospected for gold and made himself very rich. There was a period where they went 1849 in california and then by the end of the year, californiasy proved a state constitution, chosing him of one of californias two senators and then in the 1 1850s, shifted to the east and then in the 1850s hes a bicoastal guy and its not a flight, people. 1856 jesse decided to r remain in new york, and john who had difficulty staying in one place decided to return to california and they went back and forth again. And ill mention even one more thing later in life he blew their money in railroad investmen investments. They were really broke, one of the ways that they supported themselves was that jessie wrote memoirs of their experiences which is part of the reason we have some of the lovely writings of hers that we have. And in 1887, with johns health failing, jessie decided that his health would be better in the climate of los angeles and they went across the country, lived in los angeles for a little while, but john could not remain in one place and this man who so often had left his wife to travel to the west, now theyd gone all the way west and he left his wife to travel east looking for, in washington, a pension for his military service, pursuing some kind of business in new york and he died in new york city in 1890. Jessie remained in los angeles, was penniless, but was understood to have contributed something really significant to california and to the country and women in los angeles raised money to buy her a house, where she lived until her death in 1902. I guess weve got time for what, one or two more questions, one more question. One more question. One more question. I keep asking for women. Is there a woman who wants to ask a question . Id like to be gender neutral here if we could manage it. There we go. Yes, maam. I was wondering when he came out with his 60 soldiers to take over. Yes. Did you just dream that up or. [laughter] the episode is murky even today, maam. President james k polk had just been elected and wanted california and want today buy california from mexico, was in the process of provoking an actual war against mexico, but the war hadnt started yet. Nevertheless, fremont was going in that direction and president polk, according to the documentary evidence, his diary knew fremont was going there. Its unclear with polk had quietly told him take over if you get a chance. I think, it seems a little more likely that the plans were a little more vague. Polk thought he was going to get california one way or another. Wanted to make really sure that some european colonial power didnt capture is first and so fremont was out there to be available and useful if he possibly could and fremont, when he got to california didnt act like anybody with any great strategic purpose he. Thrashed around the state and gradually irritated the mexican authorities. He should have left california to go up to oregon which what he told the mexicans he was going to do. He gave various explanations why he didnt go away. Later in life the explanation why he didnt want to leave california was that he was shopping for beach front real estate as one does when one comes to california. [laughter] and he thought, santa cruz would be a great place to live and bring his mom out and he went to look at santa cruz, that was close to the capital of monterrey and part of the reason he ultimately had a conflict with mexican authorities which escalated and led to the United States takeover of california so that dreamed of real estate transaction is part of the reason that were all standing or sitting here in the United States instead of mexico. Thank you very much. Ive really enjoyed this discussion. Thank you. [applause] thank you. And so ends another event in the 117 years of history of the commonwealth club. Thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] week nights this week, were featuring book tv programs, showcasing whats available every weekend on cspan2. Tonight books on appalachia. First, a historian chronicles Robert Kennedys visit to appalachia appalachia and fueled his run for president and cassie chambers looks at her grandmother, aunt and mother who grew up in the allay ap lay missed any of the government response to the coronavirus outbreak, watch at anytime, cspan. Org, coronavirus, daily briefings from the white house and the task force to the governors of the hardest hit states. Its all there. Use the map and chart to track the global spread and confirmed cases in the u. S. County by county. Our coronavirus web page is your fast and easy way to watch cspans unfiltered coverage of thisde