[applause] hello everyone. By the this we will be behind the curtain. [laughter] welcome to the book event i am the executive director of the Writers League of texas the Largest Organization in texas helping writers of every stage of their career love the opportunity to talk to public authors about their most recent books and dig in a little bit more than we get to as often as we would like so we are learning more about what went into creating the book especially the books were talking about today there are so many interesting things that would be applicable to any writers. Who here writes but did not raise your hand . [laughter] we will make sure we get to that conversation as well. But i want to say quickly thank you we are so lucky to be here in austin with literary communities and i hope you will enjoy the conversation to bring your book up to be signed the best way to support writers is to buy their books. Yes. Finally i want to read her bio she will beat a little from the book and then we will dig into our conversation. A seasoned documentary producer whose work has appeared in the New York Times pbs news and abc news radio fox news, pbs news hour and nightline just a few. You probably havent heard any of those. The author of the true story of a serial killer in addition to the book well talk about tonight and university of texas at austin she teaches journalis journalism. [applause] do you want to set the scene . I am a multi tax or so i know one of the disc one the question is where i found the subject of the book. [laughter] so the excerpt because it fits with that and also the reading i have done in the past has a lot of body parts of my daughters are here. So the case that i have read and where i really and how he became called americas Sherlock Holmes. When they found him he was mentioned in the case about a botched train robbery in oregon four people were dead and the robbers were not robbers were in the wind and the only real clue was a pair of overalls. The federal agents the government sends down a us postal agent and at Union PacificRailroad Agent and that was the extent. So they go through with a fine tooth comb and the only thing they came up with was on one of the pockets was some mechanics greece. So they enlisted a mechanic the sheriff is nervous he says pull in Heinrich Chancey what he thinks he had already been known for a few cases before that. At this point there is a fantastic photo of him he pinned up the overalls on the door hanging from the ceiling seek a look at them and put a pair of shoes underneath so it looks like a little man hanging from the ceiling. Oscars gaze traveled up. He stared at the engine oil on the left pocket that convinced federal agents a local mechanic was the killer. Oscar scraped off the sticky glue and spread it across the glass slide and put on the microscope and adjusted the magnification it was not greece because it didnt have any of the standard components no oil or Vegetable Oil he watched the Chemical Reaction it was purely organic. With his pencil he made the most Important Note of the case a scribble on the back of an old envelope saved pitch not oil it came from a tree, not a vehicle and soon oscar was determined it came from a douglas for a tree found in western oregon the same type of naturally occurring resin to caulk the seams of sailing ships for centuries. He turned down the pockets carefully as woodchips reflected in the light no larger than half the size of the pletter the pockets carried tiny chips of debris peculiar to western washington and oregon. The suspect lived in the western part of oregon he concluded. Also understanding human nature mans habits reflected his personality. So now we slip over to the agents are tired and they want answers so they come to his lab in berkeley and there is one federal agent and so they say to him who is it we are ready to put him to death and he said no. Its a lumberjack so the owner was a lumberjack employ data for or spruce 11 lumber camp 165 pounds are probably less. Not so fast you mean to say you found out all of this merely from examining those overalls. And lumberjacks frequently bought their overalls in a larger size to shrink in the wash. So the lumberman always and outside the boot and with the shoulder straps and the straps were adjusted and exclusively on the lefthand side that means he might have been lefthanded and the suspect was caucasian to classify two strands of hair and while he was not able to use that conclusively and then was scientifically valid to create a physical sketch of a killer so that was a build in height. And now the special agents focused on the search. [applause] but when she found him how did you know he was worth finding so there is not a lot of him known and basic searches. So there was an air pollution disaster i felt we really wanted to go toward forensic. And so for that forensic scientist. So i got this book and this american in sherlock label. And with the name and the man and to find out how significant he was so this is just for me i like to write about those who are relatively unknown i wont write about jfk prick i want the unknown person. I want to time. That i feel like im excited about so my first book was based in 1952 in height rich works between 1910 and in 1853. So much happened in that time. With food and music and crime and corruption and then thats how we build a really good story. I lived in San Francisco he worked out of berkeley. The biggest thing for me is besides making history, what does that tell us about now . Is it important now . Of course it is. And then finally for height rich so his collection at uc berkeley was enormous and it scared everybody else away. And that doesnt even count the letters that he had so i think he died in 53 with a 1965 equivalent of the uhaul because everything was there. And uc berkeley like other archives and libraries is understaffed. So when you do the research i will go to the archive grid and to have multiple collections. And i put in heinrich and he was at uc berkeley so that means researchers cant go in. So in my head i put together a good case so in those archives and let me explain why to be the established author with a Real Publishing company. And thats why he is significant and you need to open the collection. We are so understaffed and its closed for reasons and then to email me and said and then i work one day a week on it. So not only to identify. I will read this paragraph just to give an idea into faithfully and meticulously filled out several pages of his journal every day of the week and with the case of the merchants after always noting in the morning when he fell asleep and when he woke and his afternoon nap he even journaled when he journaled. 8 00 p. M. Through 10 00 p. M. To generalize he wrote in one entry. [laughter] you hit the jackpot. He also had a lifelong friend he wrote a lot of letters to. How come nobody has ever done anything on american sherlock. That was such an incredible book wet is all timeconsuming. If it were really private thank god he had nice handwriting. So he kept all of the letters. His son theodore became a very big deal and his character is a big deal in the library world. And everybody kept each others letters. I work everything digital i have two screens and i have theodore his sons letters generate 12, 12, 1933 and his letters to theodore january 12, 1933 and i can create conversations literally i have threeway conversations at some point between the different people. So having that rich of an archive would be amazing. Somebody asked me the other night i just asked for the archivist for the biggest files. Because i wanted that information and so when i mean information. And of a certain age so if brad pitt were so relevant. s so yes to win the academy award. [laughter] and then the brad pitt collectively to be accused of killing the b list actress. So those in the file i was with the archivist. And it is the actresses hair and then he kept all of the evidence. And then they had to remove a firing pin once to stop but add things from happening. And then he tried to take a wax cast of a heart to match it later on. It was pretty incredible he did check his own urine levels. [laughter] and then was interested in his own Forensics Lab and chemistry and starting multiple businesses. And it was so many other facets also has a librarian learned so much to further his own so where do you begin you have five decades of material and you said so you have this narrative with you are putting together and so then i want to read so that you dont just take my word for it. To biography and true crime while many have failed pros thompson one dawsons writing is incredible it does not skimp on valuable details. So how do you cross this narrative. So for me starting to learn about the chronology and how they developed. Because we really wanted to look at and then looking at the arc of the story and from the end of his life with all of these individual cases and to keep an eye on forensic and with that pattern analysis or to make sure the whole world went for word based on what hes learning. In which from very often and then to walking character because over time Getting Better and that was the struggle is how do you take those chemicals that are 12 letters long to describe that intricate process he spent eight years learning in school then translate that to somebody likely in the 19 twenties barely even has a High School Education if that sitting on a jury. That was a lifelong struggle for him and then to bring in the progress. So the csi fans talk about the 19 twenties. So what are the advancements that we saw clicks and pretty 1910 we see a lot of advancements in france and italy and of course we see that in the Sherlock Holmes book and with Forensic Science and the Sherlock Holmes book but in the United States you have experts looking at european books and where you can read a book or two so oscar was unique and to have an interest so to grow up in Tacoma Washington and it left him as the breadwinner without taking any formal classes. It is incredible. He learned about drugs there went to uc berkeley with no High School Degree had to drop out to support his family with the undergraduate degree in chemistry. He just showed up they let him in on special circumstances because he had a letter that said if you take these tests so in physics and chemistry. And then to play into the strength and then to be so pertinent and then to use a special microscope to look at dirt or sand to see what particles make it up sand is different in different places east coast or west coast they are composed of different particles. So going into chronology to have these tools i didnt even know they would need in a powerful person to use forensics for the first time and geology because one person who is investigating a crime can set that sanitation engineer so was the first to use that. And to pioneer the bloodstained analysis to take over handwriting and to take over the mentors so there was a whole lot one a whole list of things that he knew but a lot of these were just figuring out if you view google famous forensic scientist and look at wikipedia. And to have experts in ballistics like the sam shepard case, all of these guys were all figuring it out together. Anybody could call themselves an expert. He had a few experts he was working with a. You cant write a really good book without having a guy who is a jerk with some adversaries he had a lot of adversaries. A lot spirit they were competing with the same Defense Attorneys and prosecutors. Like the way you set up the book and each of the chapters is a different case so can you tell us which of the cases were the most interesting for you . Do you have a favorite. My favorite in general what i call bits and pieces is about a woman whose body parts are everywhere they try to figure out where she is. So without giving the case awa away, he receives in the mail from the police in california the ear and a piece of scalp they dont know if its mail or female we dont know where the body is and we assume the person is dead and how do we figure this out . He said that me take a look at it. So this case was difficult because he used forensic geology with a grain of sand and figuring out where the rest of the body was because there was sand in the marsh to figure out it was 12 miles away from where the ear was which is incredible and the cop said youre crazy and he said go look and then they found the body then spent time to find the killer. When i found out about this was oscar had a complicated relationship he was very disturbed of women who dress sexy and provocative he distrusted hollywood and the woman he found the rest of her body and could identify someone who had affairs with multiple men it was interesting because i read about his opinion of this woman he never once say anything he was stodgy who thought hollywood was to sending everybody and a woman not modest was problematic for the world he didnt feel that way about this woman he wanted to find out who killed her and why and worked for years to figure it out i was really surprised by that. And the fact that he does so well that the case brings in that debauchery and as they have more stringent regulations and censorship for lack of a better word and then also at some point he believes women are the reason there is so much more crime now. [laughter] i think he felt that Young College women should wear corsets and be supervised he was an oldfashioned man who thought why are you involved in this criminal world at all . That he was repulsed by the whole thing. But i do think he felt like this burgeoning freedom of women why is problematic for young men who had impulse control issues. But i also feel he felt like he felt very strongly victim was wronged and wanted to write it and that was also problematic because one of the most Dangerous Things any investigator can do is when you bring in your own feelings and bias into the investigation then you have someone elses life in your hands then there could be a bad outcome he sent six men to death row in one year so he had a lot of power so when you read through and go through the arbuckle case and what will happen in a start to read his bias against hollywood and how arbuckle should hang and be in jail forever then you start to think he has a lot of power if that happens now you have people who do right or wrong. But to get a sense. Thats one of the things i loved about him is that probably 1000 of his letters i certainly never saw him apologize for anything not one waver in his belief ever which is incredible to me that he had incredible insecurity about the way he performed in the courtroom are how people viewed him as a professor he wanted to be a crime novelist. He was a horrible writer so it was refreshing to see this guy that you read in the newspapers sometimes they dont even give him a first name like it really is saying sherlock but then to appeal it back to see he always has these incredible insecurities. Thats another gift he had a lot of amazing positives and you could find that through these personal items. And i think we should get to know somebody reading the collection of letters he is writing about his insecurities and his childhood which was difficult and describing to his best friend how he would spend christmas with his santa claus had the Salvation Army jacket coming to the door to give him oranges because the family was in poverty in Washington State so then i have to read that and think its difficult to think about now that the one thousands of people will read those were his personal feelings. But it also fits into how he was a man is just incredible to face so much control and people are attacking him as he is on the witness stand and he starts to fall apart talking to his best friend with Police Detail outside of his house because hes afraid somebody will kill his wife when he travels. Somebody asked the biggest aha moment that had its maddening to somebody who writes a book about two weeks away from my deadline i was up at three in the morning reading the newspapers and i just change the spelling of his name i had never done it before but 50 years ago his name was spelled so many different ways so i just did one more way to resell it and i found a bad guy i had always wondered because he was so angry at his father in the letters your grandfather left me high and dry you cannot do this i will not let you do the same thing to your child that my father did to me paraguay can never figure out what happened and then i read the newspaper articles that i had to almost email my editor to say give me a second this will change some stuff it was those pivotal moments exploring somebodys life is incredible nobody can get that because you are deep in the persons life nobody is around. There is no relatives i know him better than anybody does so i am thrilled this is something i think its a fair representation of who he was. He was a jerk sometimes but it all came out very specific reasons he wanted people to act right he wanted the right people to go to jail and that was a big goal for him. We will open for questions. And there are other american versions like moriarty . Is there any case that hunted him he could not solve . I wouldnt say moriarty and the adversarial expert that tortured him 20 years. In that upset him for quite a long time that there was enough evidence that this continued on and then to save multiple killers. From that writing process that would take more than a year of your life to start writing how do you know when theres enough weight in that topic to make a book. Its really hard. When i had 100 boxes i got really excited in the past so to have these huge collections so with this from the 19th century and i cant read a thing or its 19th century shorthand that cost 500 to be translated. It is difficult because you do have to know that any collection you are in to have enough if this is a biography. And to be incredibly picky because she will not put out a book she doesnt think will be incredible i have a folder things that should be books and then they would become stories. So why is it relevant today . Why do we care about air pollution . At least with my editor i have to justify that. So how do i make the person more than just about a guy who checks on his work that hasnt been enough in my case he has to have flaws or to be murder on the side and to all make mistakes and that i can see his mistakes and to all those tools to see his mistakes. That the most creative people grapple with in these categories with a podcast or documentary. And a lot of times i would be told i dont think so so if you are looking for advice to say maybe this will work to meet a different perspective or add another character. But there wasnt one pivotal character that couldve carried the entire book. And the air pollution is the story. And hine rich is the lens in all the cases through his lens and every once in a while to say this is what happens and the time. [laughter] but when you alluded to his friend you mention the letters you had his journals and things. Everybody died off a long time ago. Which was ideal for me. [laughter] i do not like dealing with living people. With the first book i had, living people had already died already had their journals and half are still live. I was able to interview them, which was amazing barrett aiken fact check and call him back and say rosemary know you told me that the color of the carpet, and the hearse that took you to your fathers funeral is this color, but i assure . And give me some or detail. The flipside of that is then she will call me and say hey i read the book and you got my grade on my c level exams wrong. So theres six of one, half a dozen of another. You are limited when you have a really old archives, but i just love that, i love the time. Before 1960. The fact that he kept everything and you had so much to work with. Its true those moments where you took both sides of the conversation. It does really read as if we are reading their actual conversation its really well done. I will say, part of that is not limiting myself to just that archive. And saying hes got these two sons, did they do anything that was remarkable . It was just almost luck that iran across theodore in canada. So then i had to call the university in canada and say how much is it gonna cost me for you guys to give me digital copies. And it was like he has 2000 letters from pine ridge. And i really cant fly up there and take the time to read through them so i had adam do everything. I read a lot, made multiple pdf psych categorized and colorcoded stuff its hard to organize all that. One of my question for folks working on a project that is certainly going to archives is a great way to do it. But you have any other suggestions for people working on historical narrative nonfiction in terms of resource that you use . You mention papers. Com. I mention papers. Com, h ast to their half a hassey its the same thing as archive. Org. You couldve books. Do h a tti, particularly with that i will click on it and i will type in edgar oscar hydration quotes nuts at the thing is figure how people spell their nays. It will give every newspaper article or academic journal. It was like 100,000 hits. So your jumping down a rabbit hole, but its hard when people ask refined ideas, 1952 i had found in just a wikipedia and finding this incredible picture that was from the cover, and for this i bought a book that was the criminal encyclopedia of criminals from the pilgrims until 1970. [laughter] and i just flip through it and it was on page 100. I will never say the name of that book because i dont anybody else to do that, its my book. Its where every book i ever write comes out of the book i just know it. Will go downstairs and see if the book people have it. I want to say one very important thing which is for those people who want to write letters about the relevancy send them to kay Winkler Dawson i hope this is book is wonderful i hope you will pick up multiple copies and i could talk to you, truly all day about this. Thank you so much for being a part of this. Can we give kate to big round of applause . [applause] [applause] and now youre going to sign books. See my guess. Thank you guys for coming i am from austin this is my big book launch event. I was my family was here now that i really appreciate we should give her family around of applause because they had to put up with all this research. [applause] awesome. Thank you