Transcripts For CSPAN2 House Subcommittee Hearing On Veteran Food Insecurity 20240713

Good morning, everyone and welcome back as we returned from th good morning Everyone Welcome back as we return from Holiday Season to continue ournu workno in the Economic Opportunities subcommittee without objection the chair is authorized to call for recess at anyny time todays hearing is called reviewing the resources to address veteran hunger. Im hopeful we can shed some light on an important issue for veterans around the country. This hearing will discuss department of Agriculture Programs to identify Food Insecurity among nearly 20 million veterans to provide nutrition assistance to those in need. Specifically todays hearing will focus on how veterans access nutrition resources and recent policy changes have impacted the availability of resources and how congress can more effectivelyly support public and nonpublic agencies seeking to end veteran hunger this continues the subcommittees efforts to review economic factors that contribute to suicide which we now include homelessness and hunger. The subcommittee works in a bipartisan way to strengthen education and Job Training Program so veterans can get a good job but unfortunately thats not always the outcome. Sometimes a veteran and family members experience hunger nutrition resources must be made readily available. However this committee is concerned decisions regarding these resources without thoroughly considering the impact on veterans the subcommittee in congress as a whole need to know how usda considers the effects that the proposed regulatory changes regulating access to programs last year. If veterans were not considered we must understand why they felt it was unnecessary and we can be sure they are considered now and in the future. In addition it is essential we help veteran secure them since 2017 v. A. Has screened millions of veterans for hunger but it is unclear how that policy is carried out and what v. A. Is doing when a veteran in need is identified. Federal and state programs that assist veterans experiencing hunger can only be utilized if veterans are aware of them. This is a particularly fitting matter for the subcommittee which is on policies of veterans economic outcomes and ultimately the overall wellness. We have a responsibility to ensure no veteran falls through the quex i look forward to testimony from Witnesses Today to do just that. With that i recognize my friend the Ranking Member with whom i worked on a bipartisan basis for his opening statement. Thank you mister chairman. I want to thank the witnesses as well who will testify today on the important issue of veteran hunger. Food insecurity for veterans as well as allamericans is anis essential component for a stable life. Food insecurity can be a contributing factor to be health. Tal to mental it is important for us for the way we provide the security to ensure it is provided in the most effective manner to help those that need it the most. Mister chairman, neither of us were members of congress when clinton signed the personal responsibility reconciliation act of 1986 the welfare reform act was signed into law as a bipartisan bill and a good bill in my opinion but right now states are bypassing the original intent it was a bipartisan effort to require work or training for work in exchange for time related Financial Assistance it also had states for those in need to go back to work as a means to reduce the fiscal burden to prevent now what we call multi generational poverty so we want to prevent something to be striving toward i know that your goal as well. Broadbased categorical eligibility allow states to circumvent income to ask the requirements to send Supplemental Assistance Program benefits based on nothing more than an individual receiving a brochure or pamphlet. Currently of the two. 9 million ablebodied adults that participated in snap two. 1 million or 72 percent are not working additionally the number of people currently participating in snap are at pre recession levels. With such a low Unemployment Rate why do we see so many snap read to one recipients not continue to work works i would like to hear ways congress can help lift these people out of povertyy and allow them to prosper in this booming economy. With that being said with this administrations leadership and continued use of progrowth policies its now three. 6 percent with veteran Unemployment Rates of an even lower rate of three. 3 percent for the month of november. Mister chairman it isvi obvious the economy is booming. Americans are returning to work in record numbers and encouraging employment is the foundation of congress authorization of thiss program , a Great Program which is why we support the administrations rule on ablebodied adults without tdependents to implement the existing work requirements from the 1996 law that clinton and the Republican House focused on this and got it right. But how does this apply to the subcommittee quex unfortunately with no surprise we know very well how this program affects veterans. We simply did not have the idea on veterans using the snap program or how prevalent Food Insecurity is among veterans. Mister chairman you are not here when the farm bill was authorized last congress you may not be aware despite request from our side of the aisle the federal government still does not require states to conduct meaningful Data Collection on snap participants including tracking of veterans. I know we have veterans having a hard time because i participated in those stand out programs on a yearly basis. That by not tracking the Information Congress and department of agriculture usda they are left in the dark how to improve the program. I would very much like to work with human colleagues on the ssuse Agriculture Committee to address this issue to put in a requirement for states to track the Veterans Benefits some states already do this but not d all states im grateful to our witnesses for giving us an opportunity to hear directly from those involved with this program i look forward to what they believe works and what does not work and how we can evolve in these programs to ensure that no one who has served our great country goes hungry. Thats the bottom line and our goal. Once again i thank you mister chairman for holding this hearing and i yield back the balance of myanti time. Now i recognize the outstanding chairman for his opening remarks. Good morning to all witnesses and thank you for the subcommittee. And i was concerned by the changes taking place last year veterans. At impacts so the guard reservist in particular to interface employment challenges. So we need better data. And sending a letter to secretary perdue on may 24t may 24th, 2019 reflecting our many concerns. We dont know the scope of the program. And with those vha appointments. Other interactions like awards and changes of benefits like homeless students and populations and transitioning veterans. So i do appreciate you will join us this morning we are very concerned about the changes of snap benefits of the activeduty guard and reservists. I yield back. Thank you mister chairman. Thank you for your continued leadership this brings us to our witnesses we have two panels with use today the first representing the administration andda the second of nongovernmental policy expertsts first thank you to you usda for joining us on this topic we have administrator for food and Nutrition Service, also doctor Thomas Otoole the senior medical advisor fromid providence accompanied by the cochairperson of the v. A. Ensuring veterans Food Security workgroup thank you for joining us. As you know you have five minutes for your oral statement but the full written statement will be added to the record. With that administrative miller you are recognized for five minutes. Make sure your microphone isis on. I am pam miller administrator of the usda food and Nutrition Service which is responsible for administering the nutrition Assistance Program for quite pleased to be joining my colleagues from the department of Veterans Affairs and appreciate that collaborative relationship we have had to serve veterans together. We all great debts to the veterans who protected and defended our nation. They earned our respect and honor and certainly deserve our support as they face the challenges of life after militaryer service. Programs are not targeted specifically that provide Food Assistance that families may need particularly in tough times the largest progra program, snap, currently serves 36 million low income americans each month. Census data suggest one. 3 million veterans reported receiving snap in 2017. Selet me make clear veteran status is not a condition of snap eligibility we did not have veterans status as part of the data set to estimate the rules. Congress debated the collection of this information during the last farm bill to decide its not necessary or appropriate at this time so we focus on the purpose of the administration. The goals of these actions is to align the program with a statute established by congress for participants to encourage households for selfsufficiency. And to be compromise consistency in allowing those in one state to be snap or to receive more in snap benefits last month fda finalized between the ages of 1818 and 49 who do not have dependence with futures through job training and employment. And more than seven. 3 million job openings and then to get the skills they need but for these that were set in the 1996 welfare reform law and time limits do not apply to children pregnant women, the mentally or physically disabled or anyone 50 years of age or older. Importantly the disability exception includes veterans that are totally disabled or in need of a regular dependent those subjects can receive snap for three months in a threeyear period unless they are working or volunteering and with that employment Training Program for at least 20 hours a week. This accounts not all participants are fit for employment they must screen them for their ability to work and can exempt part of their casework at their full discretionet as established in law the final rule did not change any of these policies but it clarified when and where states could waive time limits for those that do not meet the work requirements. Requirements were so loose that counties with unemployment of two. 5 percent were waived they encourage them to realize their potential have sense of community to move toward an independent lifestyle. To other snap proposals are lspending to eliminate categorical eligibility used to provide benefits for staff without conducting a robust determination resulting in benefits going to households that exceed income thresholds the others modernizes the calculation of the standard Utility Allowance which is important to calculateil snap benefit amounts under current policy in one state and elderly person receiving snap benefits two. Five times as much as an elderly person across the state line in a similar situation simply because of the standard Utility Allowance book about proposals propose a level Playing Field all treated fairly and consistently. The comment. Is closed and we are analyzing comments for the next step other nutrition programs help veterans im happy to address those as well. In closing am confident we can provide americans and veteran heroes with the services and support they deserve not only a nutritional safety net they can help launch participants on aun path to Better Health and a better life. Thank you im happy to answer any questions you may have. Doctor you are recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. Good morning chairman loveland one 11 and for the opportunity to testify on ending veteran hunger unaccompanied by the dha cochair of the Food Security workgroup there are three points i want to emphasize. First not having enough food to eat is very real for too Many Americans and our veterans. Second the consequences of this Food Insecurity extends far beyond going to bed hungry the impact is seen in Mental Health conditions preventable er visits and hospitalization and avoidable death. Finally the Veterans Administration has a strong commitment to do all we can to address it one veteran experiencing Food Insecurity is one too many according to the most recent survey data more than 11 percent of all households and one out of three households have less than 130 percent of the federal Poverty Level experience Food Insecurity despite the robust economy and record low Unemployment Rates among veterans specific populations including younger veterans with families, women , low income with underlying depression and psychiatric illnesses are particularly vulnerable. In one study, 27 percent of iraq and Afghanistan War veterans reported Food Insecurity. And another 48. 5 percent lacked regular access to food. The consequences of Food Insecurity are substantial and insignificant one significant showing lack of regular access and hypertension diabetes and asthma and depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation. And associate with reduced activities and two times more likely to report poor health. Food insecurity is a social determine in tough health along with not having stable housing experiencing violence and others other studies have linked suicide risk and Food Insecurity in early 2016 the Veterans Health administrationre launched ensuring veteran Food Security workgroup to work with nonprofit agencies to identify veterans at risk Training Staff to coordinate resources and initiatives milestones from the past three and half years include implementing Electronic Medical record screening tool to identify a veteran Food Insecurity almost 100,000 food insecure veterans have been identified. Men and women who might otherwise gone unnoticed streamlining enrollment veterans into the snap Program Including partnering with usda to have veterans specific education materials Training Programs including a toolkit for registered dietitians to support food insecure veterans and expanding onsite mobile food pantries at v. A. Medical Centers Currently there are 57 food pantries in place including the 17 the feeding america pantries serving 40000 veterans 700,000 meals having enough to eat is a basic human need and in this country no one should go without food it is a major determinant of health to be viewed no differently than access to care iton or primary is intimately linked to health to manage a variety of Health Conditions not the least of which are Mental Health and suicide risk we are committed to providing the highest quality care our veterans have earned and deserve going back to the 1921 bureau act legislation we have an explicit duty and mandate to the health and wellbeing and welfare of those who serve. Molly proudly note the progress made among Food Insecurity there is more we can and will do to decrease veteran hunger. Moving forward we can increase the number of food pantries to address the urgent need for food. We need to assist and facilitate enrollment in snap snap for more consistent odcess and address the root causes of Health Focused interventions thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today we are prepared to answer any questions the committee may have. I did notice a citation veteran Data Tracking the farm bill debate. But its my understanding as well congress rejected the rules you are defending today i may be a freshman member but i have a sense of the actions taken by this body in recent years particularly my bowl to chair the subcommittee. What proportion of the veterans who screened positive does vas assist with those screenings and application assistance or referrals all of our veterans who are screened are provided assistanceve some of those specific interventions the social workers and registered dietitians engage in that process. Anyone screened positive is offered consultation with a social worker or dietitian tien the care is to what the veteran needs and the question is are you currently receiving snap if they are we assign Additional Services if not then we help them apply. So v. A. Does monitor participation for veterans that screened positive for Food Insecurity quick. We dont monitor exactly who has it but it is not captured. How is the v. A. Collaborated with usda and Community Partners to create resources or materials to raise awareness and respond to veteran Food Insecurity as it exist quick. We work with usda and develop material on how to apply for snap and also nationwide each facility is responsible for developing specific list of resources so each facility is asked to establish with their local resources. It seems its a good start it seems we could always be doing better so what is preventing v. A. From taking more positive Food Insecurity quick. Mister chairman i word agree and that is not one of the efforts and activities we are engaged in. We need to be as proactive. But to ensure the consequences of Food Insecurity that may be manifested are also concurrently addressed. Administrator miller considering the proposed rule for ablebodied did adults, did usda consult or analyze the impact on veterans if so how many would be impacted . We have data that does encompass the entire snap population if we put the rules with the Regulatory Impact analysis we looked at the entire snap population how they would be affected and that does include veterans but as i said we dont have specific dataa sets on veterans because congress has not given us that authority to collect those. We did not consult with the v. A. Did you analyze the impact on veterans specifically quick. It would have been entire set specifically we dont have the data is not a condition of eligibility we are not able to specifically assess that. Thats important to understandnd what about broadbased eligibility quick. The answer is the same we look at the impact on the broad population but if congress were willing to engage in Technical Assistance and Congress Gives that ability we are happy to do so. The answer is the same for the proposed rule on the standard Utility Allowance quick. Yes sir spirit despite the fact you say you didnt have the congressional authorization to Carry Forward a dialogue nevertheless you knew your own statementor was one. 3 million veterans received snap quick so you knew they were a uniquely Important Community as part of the snap program. We serve all americans who need assistance so they would have been captured for the entire population. So they have no significant additional importance given their service to our nation even a phone call was warranted quick. We certainly want to make sure we serve all load income americans. So the answer is no. We did not contact v. A. Thank you for that i will yield to the one the Ranking Member. Mister miller we are interested in better Data Collection what is the most efficient way to gather that information quick. The best way is through the snap application process if we have more detailed information and thats the best way to gather the data but to require households that are in status that is what we are lacking at this point. Would it take the states to collect that information why cant usda require the states on their own . It adds a condition of eligibility to the application process which includes a statutory change. We are embarking on a study that is a survey to include a question to help us understand veteran status. We are embarking on that now helping us to get that data without changing the application process. Would you find it useful quick. Yes if we could collect the data that would be useful. Usda just finalized adults without dependents rule. We have a very robust economy. And then to engage the ablebodied adults to help them get into the career field and then so many other state roh and local partners and those it is a Good Opportunity to engage these people to make sure they are able to return to the workforce. When do these changesr make affect take effect quick. April 1st. Why are you making these changes when the 2018 farm bill made no changes quick. The authority is retained to address this issue with the authority we have for this final rule. Has this administration and that work requirements as part ofre the 1996 welfare reform act. And the Obama Administration and does not change the requirements or the limits and as you said this was passed on a bipartisan basis signed into law by president clinton remaining unchanged for more than 20 years. I yield back. Thank you mister chairman i anare the concern and to experience economic hardships not knowing where the next meal will come from so we have to leave with a sense there so much to do for those who have worn the uniform for this country pledging up to and including their lives its our job to make sure they are taken care of. I want to build on a question that was asked about these rule changes. He asked for our rationale why these changes were made to propose these rules you said we have the authority i dont think we are doubting the authority but can you explain the rationale and talk about the broader population impacted and how many will lose benefits as a result quick. Using our authority we can implement the final rule that what we see there are more job openings than those seeking jobs and ablebodied adults without dependents so we are talking about individuals between the ages of 18 and 49 the states have a responsibility to be sure they are screening everyone for their assessment so we are hopeful if we can engage this population we can put them on e a path toward a better future. States do have the ability to exempt a certain percentage of caseload if they have difficulty finding work or reentering work but how can we engage with snap participants to make sure they get job training and skills they need to build the jobs they are out there. Given the economy this is a great opportunity to engage. Talk about data for veterans specifically said you didnt have that data but it was a broader population. 688,000 is what thehe estimate shows. 680,000 clearly talking that population and we can extract that pretty faithfully and to make sure they get what they need. I appreciate the working group and what you are doing to ask the question to identify ways to help i am wondering if you can talk about those that are not seeking care at the v. A. And what were doing to reach out to the broader population of Mental Health and suicide we know most of the vets are not connected to care at the v. A. Like Food Insecurity so how do we get to them and reach them quick. Thank you for the question its important to acknowledge that the Veterans Health administration or those thate enrolled represent only a proportion of those men and women who have served our country. The v. A. Has launched several initiatives through our Suicide Prevention program as a means of engaging some of those veterans at highest risk and in crisis to bring them into the system. You are right to note many suicides are among veterans who are not involved. Several initiatives undertaken to help bring those veterans into our system and provide Community Resources include the Honorable Discharge capacities to seek Emergency Care within the v. A. System and bringing them then within that venue is clearly an option and an opportunity i would like to do for those with specific issues that they may speak to those community t partnerships. Thank you mister congressman on an annual basis education intended to the outside so those opportunities are advertised to our Community Partners so you dont have to be a veteran utilizing the vha to participate in the are currently working on a podcast to be for it facing allowing anyone to hear it not just veterans receiving care. Thank you for your work. I yield back. For one second, i just want to make sure i understand one thing. You know the number of veterans that receive snap. You know the overall beneficiaries that are impacted by the proposed rulemaking. But yet you cannot tell me how many veterans are impacted by the proposed rulemaking. Last both agencies can you commit to Work Together to inform this committee how many veterans would be impacted by this proposede ctse rulemaking . We are happy to Work Together to look at the data that we have and followup. We will follow up and make sure we do everything we can to get that data its very important the committee understands how many veterans areloup impacted now i will yied to Mister Bergman for his question questions. Thank you to all of you for being here i appreciate the reference to the guard and the reserve i wish he could be here to stay so i guess this will be recorded but weve got challenges is not news to anybody thats why we have this hearingng but with the guard reserve as opposed to servicemen and women serving on active duty to serve honorably then move on with their lives to be impacted by the subject matter, is there any data out there that suggest its broken out by guard or reserve with Food Insecurity quex for those of us who served in the guard and reserve you dont move your family when you get activated or deployed and when the mobilization is complete then homest cases you return to your hometown and go back to whatever business you were in before and continue on with your guard and reserve duties so the stability of the home and family life of the guard and reserve some cases does not mirror men and women serving actively to find themselves at risk. Is there any data out there that suggest anyhe correlation between the stability of the home life of the guard and reserve quick. I think your point is wellha taken of the specific needs and issues i would have to defer to the dod. America has been data has been collected i have to defer to them. Thank you for your answer this is an opportunity for dod or whoever else to collaborate on the sharing of data as it relates to all men and women talk about a tie between Food Insecurity and suicide f risk and also you have stated many veterans at risk are outside the v. A. Health care system have you tried anything or considered anything that would allow different ways to reach the population quex i heard podcast but that is only if that veteran is not connected to the interne internet. Its a remote area anything you have tried yet to been successful. It is important to realize often times its not occurring in isolation. So as iof mentioned, Suicide Prevention efforts of reaching oneto the community is example to reach out and engage in a community way. They are other efforts to include Homeless Outreach and those who are homeless and also at risk of homelessness through stand downs and such. The convergence of the issues do provide an opportunity there is more we can do. Absolutely and it will always be a challenge because theres people who choose not to go despite services that are there but these are some of several efforts across different population groups that provide opportunities for us. You can take this for the record but what help can we give to v. A. In this case to enable and outreach that is not currently occurring because we are outside the system . What health can we givesi you as v. A. To complete that outreach to that veterans outside the system . I yield back. Thank you all for being here is such an important issue for our veterans. I also sit on the educational Labor Committee we conducted oversight hearing on the department of agriculture proposed snap rule to eliminate eligibility. And the finding was it a limits access for 1 million schoolchildren to free and reduced lunch it is incredibly frustrating to be on the committee with this rule the department did not include that impact on the regulatory analysis and then after it did publish that analysis, it continued to pursue the rule. So i just want to point out that frustration and in my home state of nevada 17000 veterans that receive snap benefits we know low income veterans may be unemployed working lowwage jobs or have disability and snap provide such essential support to enablele them to purchase food for their families. So giving this pattern i want to raise question about the usdas w priorities. Why have they prioritized regulatory actions to reduce state flexibility and access to snap increase Food Insecurity rather than actions more proactive and responsive quick. Thank you for the question our goal for proposed regulation in the final rule is to align the program with the statute that very clear to said income and asset limits or who should be receiving snap. We are trying to align the program with the statute to make sure participants are treated fairly and consistently across the country because we know folks in california are determined eligible differently than those in virginia. We are trying to make sure everyone is on a level Playing Field regardless of which state you live in the snap participant should know the expectations because the statute defines that for us to make sure everyones treated fairly and consistently. So basically its our ability if we want to see additional eligibility quick. Yes maam congress has that ability we are happy to work with you all and provide Technical Assistance if there are any legislative proposals. We know there are millions of americans experiencing Food Insecurity including veterans and our one yes those are eligible but dont receive benefits how is the usda address addressing that participation gap quick. We want to make sure we do reach those who are in need and qualify for those who are eligible states have the ability and they do some outreach whether through other federal agencies and to make sure we provide training for caseworkers for those requirements and there are some outreach opportunities working with other federal partners. So they are not taking any ownership of that quick. The law prohibits us from doing direct outreach as part of the farmt bill. Thank you for coming in today with the security workgroup im concerned given the findings of the 2013 study with the Food Insecurity tend to be younge younger, not married with the lower military pay scale i cant help but be concerned about student debt. Listedro actions to identify veterans who experienced Food Insecurity and i applaud that. What can we do to capture student veteran hunger quick. Thank you congresswoman. The population groups you mentioned are vulnerable and part of that comes from the many challenges and experiences they transition for military to civilian life. Often times while still burying the scars of battle and many of the challenges associated with that whether ptsd or other conditions. So inter into gainful employment to fully engage are clearly an issue. Obviously the role of student veterans of the shortfalls that may occur in their capacity to sustain a household are equally pronounced. I have to take for the record specific plans and actionsns specific to that population but i appreciate you bringing it up. My time is expired. Thank you to the chairman and the Ranking Member for holding this important hearing and we talked about this before. Ve to find Homeless Veterans in our communities and for those who struggle with Food Insecurity. Obviously i was moved by your testimony when you said the Food Insecurity screening tool that one. 5 percent of all veterans are screening positive for Food Insecurity. What about those who dont even get the screening quex for a veteran that iss not disabled and doesnt have dependents, the best thing we can do for that veteran and to address the issue of Food Insecurity that the economy is doing really well righty now and to have more job openings than we have people. If we could fill those job openings with veterans, thats what we need to do and focus on doing. And to get people back into the labor market. And with those ablebodied adults those from the congressionally manned it dated requirements need to be changed quick. As you just commented it focused on the fact we have a robust economy and there are more job openings land seekers. It seems like the perfect environment to be engaging this population helping them to work and get the skills that they need. We have programs that states are required to run those programs with formula funding and the opportunity to provide matching funds as we grow the programs to help participants these ablebodied adults get the job skills they need. Go back to your testimony is congress job to change the authority for one i dont want to change the statutory requirements i thinkui it has impeded peoplele from getting back in the workforce. So lets go back to the statute that was bipartisan. It limits 18 through 49. But a prime age worker with without independent or disability. Nondisabled no dependent veterans between the ages of 18 and 49. Prime working years there is a time limit for snap unless individuals working or participating in a work release of 80 hours a month and that is 20 hours per week. They could volunteer. They dont even have toha work just to do something to get them work capable. Am i describing it correctly quick. Yes sir. And dont think the statute is stingy it has great positive incentives for ablebodied no dependence prime age workers to do something to get them back to a productive place where they can be selfsufficient. Is exactly what we need to be promoting. So that states are impeding that structure than that does a great disservicear to the heroes of our country to encourage them to be more dependent than independent. One fight question the Veterans Benefits were not extended even though the department of labor ruled him unable to work where the state waivers impact similar situations quick. That is an unfortunate situation so the state has the responsibility to be sure they are properly screening individuals. If there are situations like that we can provide Technical Assistance because if we did have information that would set aside the requirement to have that individual not be subject to the final rule we are talking about. Now i recognize ms. Rice for five minutes. I cant believe were sitting here talking about this we should all be humiliated we are talking about taking food away from any man or woman no matter how ablebodied they may be who wore the uniform of this country. We must strive to build communities from the very first moment those of the words of w President Trump to for you to implement a ban to take food out of the mouth of a veteran is nothing v short of unamerican and inhumane. Level Playing Field when youre talking about men in our country not being able to get food. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you mess rice. I would now like to recognize mr. Musa for five minutes. Myth thank you, mr. Chairman, thank you all. So, clearly a difficult issue, one in which we all agree in the end, anyone who cannot afford to maintain a level of nutrition and food, particularly a veteran, we as aan country, we as communities engage in, i donate regularly to food banks, and theyre quite a few of thems. There are some food banks that exist for the purpose ive won in my district one in keystone the food bank. So what we need to figure out, is how to get it done. In a way thats accountable. I have a va and my district. It takes a very holistic view of veterans services. Theyct work for Many Organizations to connect whenre they feel their benefits that are not in line with the best interest of the veteran and they are deserving. So is that a best practice that is encouraged or modeled, or tot for other vas to really take this holistic approach and not just look at the data of what their income levels are . Thank you congressman for that question and i think it highlights both an important point and really underscores in the va water is our mission. We see our role and job is going far beyond managing a Health Condition or health problem, but trying to take care of the entire veteran. And that extends through many examples and i would wholeheartedly concur with whats going on the lebanon va, thef leadership they are in the staff there, with their commitment to the men women who serve. Its a great testimony and example of what we are trying to do. He gets back b to the larger issue in the context of Food Insecurity we have to look at Food Insecurity not only in isolation but what are the root causes of it . And work with the veteran and support that veteran through that context of helping them secure, in addition stable housing, stable housing, addressing Domestic Violence issues. Helping them support their families. That goes far beyond a prescription pad. Ha so i appreciate you bringing that up and that is very much arc commitment and the strategic approach we are taking to the Food Insecurity screener and the interdisciplinary and team based approach of trying to address what is a much deeper problem than just food. And i also just want to commend the department of Veterans Affairs, particularly of the last two years. The missions acts, the veterans choice act have been implemented on a bipartisan basis, very much led by secretary wilkie and your staff. Most of you are veterans, and if not you are dedicated your lives more or less, youre working lives to servingng veterans. And i see that through the Veterans Administration if its appreciated. Subtly appreciated by me since i have 55000 veterans in my district, its appreciated by the veterans and their families. They have seen improvements, not just at the lebanon va, but the va as a whole. It wasnt too long ago, a couple years ago, three or four years ago always our disasters within various Veterans Administrations. But the work has been done, we are caring for veterans better now. Is there work to do . H absolutely. Such things as the improve act that we need to pass and provide more communityo services so as we have the hybrid approach towards the best possible care for our veterans. And so i really commend you for your work and your dedication. Thank you for your service. The other thing i wanted to ask you, the usda, who is very active in my district, and the department of Veterans Affairs, do they work in unison . Is there cooperative efforts they are in this regard . Related to food . Yes, sir, there is and we have some Training Programs with some of the veteran va caseworker so they are familiar with our program and urconnect vets to our programs. I yield back mr. Chairman. Thank you mr. Meuser and with that id like to thank our first panel. Ci will now call up our second panel and while everyone is switching around, we will just take a minute. All rights, thank you everybody. On the second panel today we have josh proteaus Vice President of public policy, a jewish response to hunger. Thank you for being here. Also joining us is Denise Hollywood, chief community and programs officer Blue Star Families. And finally we have vince hall, the ceo of feeding san diego. Thank you also much for joining us. I am looking forward to getting your perspective. As you know we will have five minutes for your oral statement but youre for full written statement will be added to theen record. His protist unit are now recognized im sorry mr. Protist you are recognized for five minutes and please use the microphone. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is josh protist and i am honored to serve in my position. Inspired by judes values and ideals, we take to heart the responsibility to care for the most vulnerable in our midst. Without judgment or precondition. For nearly ten years we have prioritized addressing the long overlooked issue of hunger among veterans and military families. The supplemental nutrition system are snap, is the most critical tool in supporting veterans to struggle to put support food on the table. Unfortunately its under attack to administrate of actions that will increase hunger and hardships for veterans part i would like to tell you about one of these individuals. Tim is a navy veteran in maine. I spoke with tim last week and he agreed to allow me to it share his very painful experience. After being injured, tim could not return to work and fell on hard times. He applied for snaps and he could afford to buy food. Because the state of maine chose not to waive the time limit for ablebodied adults without dependents, tim lost that benefits after only three months. In three months is the limit, not 36. He repeatedly asked of the numerous officials who passed along in a beer yet bureaucratic maze, what delay between now then . Nobody had an answer for tim. Without snap, tim had no assistance and became homeless. He resorted to scrounging for food and even catching squirrels to eat to get by. Reflecting on his time, tim shared quote there were many times when i would go to or even three days without food. The food bank has only limited resources. I had to add seven holes on my belt to keep my pants on. For people like tim, snap can literally save lives. We know that snap has 1. 3 veterans, but a recent support suggest maybe two thirds of veterans who struggle with hunger and are eligible for snaps are not currently enrolled. Nobody, and certainly no veteran like tim should ever be forced to ask what delight because they cant get the help they need from the country they fought to protect. We urge congress to protect and improve snap. Usda Must Withdraw the three w harmful proposals that would strip snap benefits for millions of americans including veterans. Of particular concern is the rule that restrict waivers from snap time limits. This rule is not nuanced, its not flexible, its not a reflection of the reality of the struggling americans. And its entirely inappropriate for usda to move forward with changes to snap without understanding how it will impact americans veterans. Food insecurity can often make a downward spiral of despair that whicher unfortunately can lead to suicide. Improving access to snap from struggling veterans is an important tool to end veteran suicides and needs to be prioritized. Two, connect veterans to snap. We are pleased at the va to our advice to start screening veterans for Food Insecurity, but the current process is not doing enough and is not capturing all veterans who struggle. The va must adopt a validated to question hunger signs to get all who are for the va should require onsite snap ability and assistance which is not happening properly. Three, share nutrition assistance during transition. Va should integrate materials about programs like snap is part of the transition Assistance Program and other veteran outreach efforts. Includes information as far as the new start veteran Suicide Initiative and work with usda and Committee Partners to read have better resources. For, listen to veterans. Negative Public Perceptions of snap are ramped at by proposals to restrict the programs for only certain americans. This creates a chilling effects and adds to the stigma and shame that makes veterans and others reluctant to seek help that they need. This committee should hold the followup hearing to listen to veterans who have real live experiences with food and security. Lastly, Congress Must address the related issue of hunger among currently serving military families its been ignored far too long. We believe this is an urgent matter of federal security, military readiness, retention and recruitment. The best way we can support and honor the veterans is to ensure that they have what they need and never have to strugglend with hunger. For someone like tim, that means ensuring access to snap. When tim turned 50, the this nap time no longer applied and he was once again able to get assistance he desperately needed. St tim is in a much better place now. He wants to make sure that others, veterans and nonveterans alike do not fall to the crack like he did. Enke. Ike look forward to your questions. Thank you and i appreciate that. And now i would like to recognize was hollywood for her opening statement. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Members and distinguished memos of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is Denise Hollywood and on the chief Community Programs officer Blue Star Families. Er Blue Star Families build communities that support military families by connecting research and data solutions. And since its inception in 2009, we have engaged tens of thousands of volunteers and served more than 1. 5 million military family members. Blue star families is nationally recognized for our annual military Family Lifestyle survey. Which uses both quantitative and qualitative data to reveal a snapshot of the current status of military families. In our 2018 survey of over 10000 respondents, we found that 7 of military families respondents and 12 of veteran family respondents indicated that someone in their household had faced Food Insecurity in the past year. Additionally, 9 of military family respondents and 18 of veteran family respondents indicated that someone in their household had sought emergency Food Assistance through a food bank, food pantry, or charitable organization. In order to comprehend the issue of Food Insecurity among veteran families, we must first understand the factors that contribute to Food Insecurity while these families are still actively serving the military. Such factors include high rates of Military Spouse unemployment and underemployment, limited availability and high cost of childcare, outofpocket relocation and housing expenses, and unexpected financial emergencies. Many of these factors arise from frequentt relocation and due to military orders. According to the department offense, active duty families relocate every two to three years typically across state lines are overseas. Frequently location make it difficult for Military Spouses to find and maintain gainful employment. Partly because employers are wary of hiring individuals who gaps in the resumes as a result of previous moves. Military spouse works in a license they have to relicense a new state. In 2018, we found that 30 of Military Spouse respondents were unemployed. This figure dwarfs the civilian Unemployment Rate which in 2018 was less than 4 . 56 of military families Military Spouse respondents would like to be employed cited childcare is the reason they were currently working. Meanwhile 70 of millennial military family respondents reported that having two incomes was vital to their families well being. Thus, the military style employment crisis, directly contributes to Food Insecuritys by preventing military families from achieving a vital second source of income. The Financial Difficulties of modern military families are further compounded by frequent outofpocket relocation expenses paid all of the federalen government incurs most of those costs one third of respondents reported spending dollars innd unreimbursed expenses during their last military move. All of these factors, outofpocket expenses, rising cost of childcare, spousal and employment, and others can contribute to Food Insecurity among currently serving military families. Food insecurity and of activeduty families does not end with Service Members retire. To the contrary. The Financial Difficulties of military families can be aggravated by transition related challenges. It is critical that we work to address the underlying causes of military and veteran family Food Insecurity. At the same time however, this committee can take immediate steps to adjust veteran hunger by protecting and strengthening programs like snap that alleviate at her and hundred or. Instructing the va and usda to be more proactive in their efforts to identify veterans who are experiencing Food Insecurity, and establishing va partnerships with nonprofits to help reach veterans who are not receiving services through the va network. The federal government must also work to expand its Data Collection around veteran family Food Insecurity so as the veterans foreign policies respond to this issue of bussard families situated in this endeavor. I like to thank the distinguished members of the subcommittee for their efforts to eliminate suit food insecurities, those s who risk their life country should never have to struggle to put food on their table. Thank you. Thank you ms. Hollywood, now i would like to recognize mr. Hall for five minutes and thank you for all of your good work and my neck of the woods, out in north county san diego. Will chairman thank you very much Ranking Members and distinguished members of the committee ive been tall the ceo of feeding san diego which is so fleeting hunger relief in San Diego County. We are also very proud member of the feeding america network. So for prospective sandia county is 4500 square miles is population of 3. 4 Million People making it larger than 20 u. S. States. Has ones of the largest concentration of veterans and military personnel in the world. Our navy, marine, coast guard and National Guard armory are critical part of this Nations National defense infrastructure. Our county is home to 143 activeduty hundred 43000 active military 260,000 military dependents, 243,000 veterans, and 583,000 family members of veterans. Over one point to million san diego ends are have direct ties to the military. It is a proud heritage. But it comes with solemn responsibilities. The greatest among these wants abilities is to ensure that our veteran and military families had a dignified quality of life that honors theire sacrifices. But all too often despite the efforts of our government, it falls to organizations like feeding san diego and feeding america, to close this significant gap between what our heroes have and what they need. To provide for their families. I am proud of my organization, but i take no pride in the fact that our country stations people in san diego without paying them enough to live in san diego. And i takee no pride in seeing ever larger numbers of veterans lining up at our feeding heroes food pantries every year. The good news is that feeding san diego has innovative food rescue approaches to delivering healthy fresh and nutritious foods that would otherwise go to waste. Last year we rescued 24 Million Pounds of food that was going to leave the food system and go to the waste system. From stores, farms, manufacturers and other sources. With her faithbased and charitable partners across the county, we distributed 26 million meals were the food. 97 was rescued food that would have otherwise gone to landfill. According to the usda 40 of the food goes to the waste every day. Thats more than enough to solve hunger for every man, woman, and child in need. Through our partnership and with feeding america, we rescue food in San Diego County from 200 Starbucks Stores every night of the year. Grocery stores, school districts,tr central kitchens, other places we also rescue Fresh Produce from farms and packing ships up and down california. But we cannot do this by ourselves, we are proud to partner with 170 religious and charitable organizations across the county who work handinhand with us to implement this model. Many of these organizations are specifically focused on the needs of veterans and activeduty military families. Groups like the uso, us for lawyers, kurds to call, military Outreach Ministries and support the enlisted project. Our distributions reach families through a dignified Farmers Market style model. Which allows individuals to select the foods that are best for their families needs. Our military can access fresh nutritious fruits and vegetables, without stigma or unnecessary bureaucracy through these pantries. But as strong as our efforts are, theres much more to be done. And there are serious threats to our progress. We are asking congress to do several things which would help us to finally sell veteran and military hunger. Foremost among these is to oppose cuts to the snap program which threaten americansf including many of the veteran and activeduty military families that we serve. Feeding america is 200 food bank strong. But for everyone mail that is provided by our entire network, the snap Program Provides nine meals. So even a relatively small cut to the snap program threatens to create a staggering increase in demand at americas food banks, demand we simply cannot meet. I also encourage congress to include needed improvements in child nutrition reauthorization which willst help to increase food access for the children of military and veteran families. I want to end my testimony by sharing desirees story. Desiree participates in our feeding heroes program, her husband is a Communications Officer in the navy who makes just over 34000. Year. She has four kids and her husband has been deployed now for nearly eight months. She told us that she knew life as a Military Spouse was going to have its challenges, but she never expected that one of those challenges would be feeding her own children. Thousands of military families face similar challenges, we see too many kids standing in food lines and other parents serving on the front lines. It has been an honor to testify today on behalf of everyone we serve it feeding san diego including desiree and her family. Thank you. Thank you so much mr. Hall for your leadership and your work in san diego. Im glad this is provided an opportunity to highlight some of the great work you are doing, really for all three of you, thank yous nongovernmental leaders and experts for bringing your perspective today. I want to thank the va representatives for sticking around to hear them. Is anyone from usda still here . Lack of yes . From yesterday still here . No. Let the record reflect that no one from the United States department of agriculture who administers the snap program took the time to stay, to listen, to Nongovernmental Organization experts who see first hand in the field, how Food Insecurity is impacting the veteran community. Let the record reflect that. Now i would like to turn to some questions. Mr. Hall, i was really delighted to join you recently, through a distribution center. And i enjoyed learning about all the good work you are doing and how you do it. Our most veterans that you see, that are referred to cd feeding san diego, do they get there from the va or elsewhere . And can you comment on any stigma or reluctance to seek assistance among food insecure veterans . Thank you, mr. Chairman the referral system is very informal and it often happens through. Networks. We have different groups of veterans we serve, transitioning veterans who just left the Service Representative perhaps is five or ten years and they find us through support organization. Senior veterans might come to us through neighborhood based senior programs and its only as we began to serve them that they are veterans who might be eligible for va services. A lot of just persontoperson referrals cause people to find their way to our food pantries. Even the va center in san diego refers people to us. But you hit on a key point mr. Chairman and that is stigma. That no one who is worn the uniform of the country feels pride in accessing food through hunger relief charities. It is really our duty, our obligation morally to support those who have served this country to ensure that they dont need to turn to charitable organizations to have a minimal quality of life after they themselves up at their life on the lines for this country. So only by partnering with these organizations would have the trust of veterans that we find we are able to create Safe Environments where we minimize that stigma and maximize their dignity. But it still and always ever present challenge. Its thank you for that. Mr. Produce use mention the screening tool only identified veterans at risk of very low Food Security. Can you explain the difference of very low and low Food Security and why its important to address both . Yes thank you for the question. Its really a technical difference in the way the usda defines it. Low is households that have reduced the quality, variety, and desirability of their diets. But the quantity intake and eating patterns were not substantially disrupted. And very loaded securities it describes at times during the year eating patterns of one or more how house members were disrupted in food intake reduced because the household lacked money or other resources for food. The truth is both of those categories are considered food insecure were people have to alter their eating habits, which ultimately results in poor nutrition and health outcomes. The single question is being asked, we think captures just those who experience a very low Food Insecurity and the rate is under 2 that they are determining. We know the rates for certain parts of the veteran populations, and veterans in general are much higher than that. So many people are falling through cracks. Thank you for that, for both you and mr. Hall, by usdas own admission, its recent proposed rule changes to snapple lead to significant reduction in snap participation which will no doubt include loss of snap benefits for struggling benefits as im sure you remember from our first panel, they dont know how many although they promised to get us that number. They are not here anymore to hear this. Mr. Hall, as an organization that provides both direct food and also enrolls individuals in snap, what impact do you think these changes are going to have for your organization for feeding san diego . Do you and other food banks, pantries across the country do you have the capacity to make up for these cuts . While also maintaining the robust emergencies that you provide . Thank you, mr. Chairman in the short answer is no we dont have that capacity. It is so complicated to get someone enrolled under snap under the current criteria we have had to redirect our Staff Resources to not just helping people apply for snap but instead doing fewer applications and helping more people through the entirety of the document process to get to the benefit of the process. So we have scaled back our enrollment process and this is going to add out the entire new layer of complication we cannot afford to support. Sumac thank you mr. Protas what does it mean that you highlighted in your testimony to teach about Hunger Relief Organization to mitigate the impact from the snap policy changes . Thank you for the question. Then governor lepage chose not to take state waivers for the timely events on the snap waivers even though they were eligible for those waivers. And the states on increase in hunger that resulted. Thousands, including 2800 veterans lost access to snap. It didnt mean they had a bettering of their life circumstances, it didnt mean because they lost a dollar 40. Person. Meal benefit, that they were inspired to get work. I think this shared goal is to get people back to work it can but just taking food away from people doesnt magically make them work. And that was the case that happened in may main. The story of tim that i shared was a very personal story that somebody was hurt. But we know there are thousands of other veterans and tens of thousands of other mainers who lost access to snap and went hungry because of that change. Thank you very much and with that i would like to turn it over to the Ranking Member. Mr. Chairman, i understand that this statute and i agree with you the usda should be here. They should have stayed. But i understand they are barred by statute that they cannot request the veteran status. And i would like to discuss that with you. Because we have to give them the authority to do so. So i would appreciate that. I understand it was taken out in the farm bill, that authority, so lets get that done together. Going down the panel, and i guess we will start with the mr. Protists, is that okay . Would you support an increase in the federals governments ability to attract the veteran status of snap beneficiaries . And if not why . I think i would support that, i think the usda has ways to collect information that they are not. They asked us about the 1. 3 million veterans is supported in snap currently it comes from the Census Bureau so there are ways to get this data into get information. It would be fine to inquire about veteran status, but that should not be the barrier to usda and doing more to examine this problem. And i do want to commend all the groups for all your good work and helping our heroes. I really appreciate it so much. And we respect you tremendously. Again, the question for mr. Protas and mr. Hall, with feeding san diego, do you believe snap should be a temporary Assistance Program . Mr. Protas first. I think for the vast majority of snap participants, snap is temporary assistance and its work the way as devout zion. But there are seven individuals who are disabled, those who are not able to work, that it may provide longerterm support. Ideally people get back to work in snap as a stepping stone. But if they dont have jobs and their communities, and there are not job training opportunities, it is difficult. And there many barriers people face to work. Ms. Muller talked about employment and Training Programs. I think that is very important we sought in the last farm bill that there are ten pilot programs for employment Training Programs. We should see what works out of those in the results of those programs. But the truth is theres not job training for every snap participant who wants to better their skills to get work. So if we really want to get people back to work, which i think is a shared goal, lets invest in those employment and Training Programs so that snap is a temporary assistance. But just taking food away from people is not the motivator thats going to all of a sudden have somebody then seek work. They are looking for work, they just dont have jobs or training opportunities and their communities. Or they face barriers to work like transportation or childcare. Thank you mr. Hall, do you feel snap should be a temporary Assistance Program . I agree with the previous response and people that dont have a path to selfsufficiency snap is an important part to meet their nutritional needs. However i would also say that we have the program where we track the national average. The national snap participant is within the program for less than the year. It is a Successful Program that is lifting people out of poverty. And we look at the numbers of snap participants who are not working its typically not the same people each month. This is a program that fluctuates a new people find themselves in crisis, and people find themselves their ways back into the workforce and are no longer in the program. So i think the program is functioning well and is serving its intended purpose. A question for mr. Protas. And miss hollywood anytime you want to chime in, please dont hesitate to have. I want to give you an opportunity first lets do that. Do you have any questions do you want answer that in any way . Okay, mr. Protas in your written statement you provide the story of tim, a veteran, a hero from maine. Wyatt was the department of labors determination not enough for him to qualify for snap . I think there was a misunderstanding between state agencies and unfortunately we know that there is a lot of confusion about disability status. Ms. Muller noted in her testimony that veterans who receive full disability rating are exempted from work requirements. That is actually not the case. Of any veteran who has a disability rating and receives any benefit at all from the va is exempted from work requirements. We have the head of the food and administration they did not properly convey that in understand this regulations. So i think there is a lot of confusion in veteran information and that needs to be distributed on the usda has a role to play. But state agencies that administer stat snap and other plans have to play a role as well. And i think the va can apart and better communicating those guidelines. I just want to emphasize that all of us want our veterans, obviously and their families to have Food Security. Its just a matter of i think we need to have more hearings, and as a chairman told me he would like to have a panel of veterans to get their input on this. So i really appreciate your input, your testimony in both panels today and i yield back. Thank you mr. Ranking member and i agree with your suggestion is part of your testimony that we should be hearing from veterans themselves. So we would absolutely love to do that. And in addition, i appreciate the chance to work with the Ranking Member to get that data to see exactly how many veterans are being impacted by this. In fact there are reasons why the usda or the va cannot Work Together to provide that information, we need to understand that as well. And we did at least get, while the usda administrators here, the commitment that she would work with the va to try to get that data to us. So we will keep at it, and its going to take more hearings and i look forward to working with you together on that. With that i would like to realize mr. Pappas for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman like the second that information that we look for ways to look at the veterans and i like the way they have brought out personal stories for us. If theres an opportunity for roundtable i would love to be participate in that. I appreciate your comments here today on the work you do on behalf of veterans and those are struggling across the country. We all know and we heard in the last panel at 36 million americans rely on food stamp benefits in this country every month. And thats a time when we consider the economy is doing well. 1. 3million veterans access the snap program according to recent data, and weve got to make sure those events continue to find wades to be connected, even as the Administration Seeks to pull the rug from out from under those who are struggling and rely on the snap program. And i think its outrageous they have moved forward with these measures that target folks who are struggling, and two are really living daytoday. Mr. Hall, you said a few things that i hear a lot from food pantries, from the food bank and Charities Across my district that understand that even at a time of significant Economic Growth for many in our country, there are those who are struggling and the snap program doesnt necessarily meet the needs of those who are food insecure. So my am wondering if you could continue to talk about what changes to this Program Means for organizations like yours that are already stretched to the max, and why we need why we need to do to fill those gaps . Thank you mr. Congressman its a very difficult challenge to convey how the snap Program Works in the real world. There is the complexities of finding eligible populations and we know only a percentage of eligible veterans in the country are participating in the snap program. We know the documentation requirements that are required to successfully enroll, the lag time before you receive a benefit card, and california this is a county administered program, and the county of san diego is a terrific partner with feeding san diego and has a fulltime employee in our food back office to help us process snap applications. But often it can take weeks and weeks to help somebody who is in a crisis to get access to the snap benefits. We also see the snap benefits were run out the second or third week of the month and we see an increase in demand at food pantries from those beneficiaries because the benefit and not mount is not enough to get food to properly nourish their families. So it is a situation where the Program Works well within the guidelines that congress has established for. But congress hasnt established the program in a way to solve hunger in this country. It is absolutely at this moment a sensual critical supplemental aid for many, many veterans, and many activeduty military families. If i may just add, for activeduty military families having their basic allowance for housing counted as income for purses of disqualifying them for snap, isnt absolutely in inexcusable affront and many members agree with this but i dont nurse mib havent fixed it yet. Certainly no one is getting rich on the 45dollar day that snap pays for Food Assistance. And if anyone thanks thats an overly generous benefit they should try living out of. I wonder if we can zero in on the fact that younger veterans, veterans of iraq and afghanistan are experiencing Food Insecurity and higher rates . Do we know why thats the case and how can we do outreach to those communities to make sure theyre getting what they need . Saw a recent study by researchers at the university of minnesota found Food Insecurity rates for those veterans either astronomically high rates and very concerning. It was mentioned before that the economy that is booming. I just want to say the economy is not booming for everyone. That jobs arent available in every community especially rural communities. And we also have many people who are transitioning from military service who are taking lowpaying jobs and experience underemployment. Maybe its a parttime job without benefits. Maybe they are cobbling together a couple of parttime jobs. And then underemployment rate was recently documented for recently returning veterans at a rate substantially higher than the civilian population. So i think that is part of the situation here. And we need to do a better job for those who are transitioning to know they are aware of the benefits they can help them during that temporary time of need. Income viability is a key component here because people go from getting a steady paycheck on active duty and sadly thrown into this crisis where they are piecemeal in various jobs together to get a solid paycheck. Thank you i yield back. Thank you mr. Pappas iodide and i like to recognize mr. Burkman. Thank you, mr. Chairman, thanks to all of you for being here because we are talking about especially the children of Service Members. We have kids if they are hungry they cannot learn. Plain and simple. And when you think about the things we do in schools, because his kids dont have food at home to eat, or when they go home on friday afternoons and there for the weekend and we send backpacks full of food home with them because of their home life situation puts them at risk. So i thank you for what you are doing. I have kind of a hodgepodge of questions here based upon the testimony that each of you gave. Said mr. Portis, you use the example of tim, was he in the bay va system . He was not receiving healthcare in the va system, no. Was not my choice . Im not sure he qualified for medical care through va, his disability is not a Service Related disability is a jobrelated disability. The reason i ask questions like that is that accounts. I will use examples of things i want to make sure we do what we are trying to do heres a committee, doesnt make any difference which side of the alley you are on, to understand what our role here as congress is to do the right thing in this case for veterans and their families. For the whole family. Could you, each of you give a rough number, this doesnt have to be accurate are rough percentage breakdown of the veterans that you interact with who are inside or outside the va system. Kind of like just what i asked about tim, 6040 . 7030 . What he think . I think its maybe 6040, 60 outside of the system 40 inside. Okay. s are surveyed is the address that specific question. Approximately 85 of our super sponsor military family heirs so they are and the other 15 are activeduty and veterans. The. A significant portion of our feeding as military families within the veteran community we do not have a mechanism to track how many are actively engaged with a va and who are not. So unfortunate that data. So this is not a question to be answered here, but again, i really appreciate a response because activeduty, camp pendleton, 32nd street, balboa hospital, north islands, coronado, what could again not to be answered now unless you want to give it or you have a quick solution youve already thought of, these men and women are stationed there. There activeduty, but they are fulltime. In most cases, or many cases they are either living on board base or theyre getting that to be in town. And i am guessing va age is relative to the cost of living in san diego. Okay, is there anything that these people are fulltime employees of the u. S. Government. So take it out of the military and lets say we move all of the Forest Service firefighters out there to be stationed temporarily in san diego to be jumpers in the event we had forest fires okay . Could they afford to live . Or is it just because of san diego is a costofliving first of all let me complement you on your talk about food waste and recapturing food if you will. Are you familiar with anthony board days the story of foodways . Yes or. That impacted me greatly when i first thought. What saddens me is weve got a soon to be ten grand kids, and we are all great grandparents so we are looking at three generations down. Whats sad about that movie was that it cant be shown and middle schools or any school for that matter, because of the language in it. So you could impact your fellow filmmakers out there, not that youre in the film business, to make it middle school presentable, because the messaging we are talking about here, is building resiliency and the military, we have families who are committed to the country. Its our responsibility to committed to them. But in building that resiliency, within the family, within that service member, so the family can survive and thrive when the Service Members gone to the fight. And i know i am going over here a minute or so mr. Chairman if you will allow me to it continue. But the idea is that when they leave activeduty, they served honorably, they are at the end of activeduty and they are out in the civilian workforce, can families afford to live in san diego if they got out after they left for eight years honorably and they got out at the ae five or east six level, or Something Like that, they dont have a pension because they did not serve 20 years, when you tell them . It is increasingly hard congressman is increasingly difficult to understand san diegos complex housing equation. Our costofliving is now 40 higher than the national average. So it is unreasonable to expect that people in the economic condition you described are going to be able to easily locate, find housing, and support their families in san diego. Unfortunately our activeduty military families dont get to make that choice they are stationed in san diego and when their families arrived the va is not sufficient to support them so we have many families traveling as far as riverside to work. I know the roadways very well, but san diego has one problem because of the cost of living, San Francisco probably has a similar problem, places like new york, boston, d. C. Have a problem to that as well. My district happens to be very rural and remote. We have a slightly different problem, usually the tyranny of distance and the availability of we need more good paying jobs. But we are getting there because the economy is on fire in a positive way not in a wildfire sort of way. I see a hand coming up when mr. Portas is done and sitting ira will yield bexar. Sir quickly thank you about the issue of currently serving military families. The current allowance for housing as a barrier and we have tried in the past in the car farm bill context to have that basic allowance for housing and exclude his income. But there has been an opportunity in the National Defense authorization act, we worked very closely with the National Military Family Association and congresswoman davis and congressman young for a bipartisan solution for military family basic leads announce. It would help junior enlisted personnel with larger households to really struggle make ends meet and dont qualify for snap even though they need it. There is something that congress can do, congressman leven is a cosponsor of that provision, thank you very much. We would love to see that taking care of in the next. [inaudible] to make sure those military families are taken care of. As you mention to children in the military families are nextgeneration issue. Someone families today, are in the military are struggling or even for veterans with children, those children are much more likely to go into service themselves. If they have Food Insecurity as children they are more likely to experience obesity and other issues that may not make them fit to serve. The retired generals have prioritized us. Its not an issue for readiness for recruitment down the road. Thank you and mr. Bergman i resemble the remark of living in a highcost area, its very true. But we are not going to solve all of the reasons for that certainly it is not the auspices of this discussion. I think this discussion is a fairly simple one. Which is are we going to allow veterans to go hungry . And i think the answer should be equally simple we cannot allow veterans to go hungry, not one veteran and need should go hungry. So with that i like to recognize mr. Bar. Thank you again mr. Levin for your leadership in holding this hearing and i could not agree with you more, we should not have a single veteran in this country food insecure. And i want to thank our second panel for your organizations for your dedication, for your work in fighting this problem and im gotta give a shout out to my food pantries back home in kentucky who i know serve many veterans. Gods pantry, mr. Hall you may know Michael Howell halligan he does a great job and its a great organization. Theres a Great Network of food pantries within gods pantrys network in central and eastern kentucky. And sandberg who leads our whole statewide effort in this regard. I also want to complements our agricultural commissioner back in kentucky he is doing some innovative things to address food and securities he is working very closely with our Food Pantry Network back in kentucky. Mr. Prodi so when i explore a little bit more the conversation you are having with Ranking Member raucous about the temporary nature of snap, and obviously i appreciate your comment that the temporary nature of snap certainly is applicable to able body or capable, but may be should not necessarily apply to senior citizen, or someone who is disabled. I would just remind everybody that of course the underlining bipartisan statute does not apply, the work requirements dont reply to as i read it, so that does not appear to be an issue. But i do take seriously mr. Protas your good points that in maine for example in other places where there may be in the rural areas, i represent these exact places youre describing places in rural places even in a booming economy there is underemployment there is difficulty fighting the 7 million job openings in those particular economic places. But as i read the proposed regulation from the usda, it looks like they are taking that into account because it moves to an area specific requests for waivers versus sweeping statewide waivers. I would invite you to comment on that. One point about disability, those who have a recognized or properly recognize disabilities are prevented from work requirements but many people fall between the crooks. And i think it would be wrong to discount that. There are many people with Mental Health disabilities or physical Health Disabilities that dont get fully recognized. And part of that might be because of economic barriers because they cant afford to go to the doctor to get the proper documentation. There are many hopes that people have to jump through, sometimes to get their disability properly certified. I think that is a fair point and we should pry Work Together to address that. But when you are talking about a bona fide disabled person you agree this should be a temporary program. It should be a temporary program for those who are not able to work and who have opportunities available to them. As far as the proposed rule change, states if limiting state flexibilities. In its not just flexibilities about statewide waivers. They were area waivers they were currently exercised. So i dont know in kentucky if you feel the usda has a better sense of Job Opportunities in your state officials, i think the way the 1996 welfare reform law worked was that there is a certain amount of flexibility for states to seek that waiver knowing the Job Opportunities and their communities. They know best what can happen. That is a fair point. But as i read the proposed rulemaking, the move to area specific requests for waivers makes sense because the states can apply for those in those pockets. In rural kentucky will redo have difficult labor market issues. One other thing i read is the proposed rule continues the use of exemptions for adults who are having difficulty entering the workforce. You are aware of that, that seems to address a lot of the concerns that you otherwise might have with the rule. There is actually a continuation of those exemptions i believe in the proposed rule there is an elimination of the carryover of exemptions. So that is a concern that it actually limits the number of exemptions. And im not aware that every state is fully taking advantage of those exemptions to wave. So my concern is that if limiting state flexibilities and it is limiting the options that help those who are really struggling. I really do appreciate your work and your feedback on this. And i certainly will continue to monitor usda as it implements us because we obviously want these great organizations to continue to serve our veterans when there is a need. We also want them to encourage work or we can. I yield back. Thank you mr. Barr now i would like to recognize mr. Muse are. Thank you, mr. Chairman, the Veterans Affairs committee here were focuses on veterans, not necessarily the entire population although we care greatly about that as well. No veteran should ever go hungry. I think that is understood. I think whatever procedures and perhaps legislation, actions that need to be taken, we simply need to do a better job of assuring that that occurs. Now related to your organizations and i stated earlier i am very familiar with food banks for after the community has to step up and do Capital Campaign fundraising events and things of that nature. And other government participation. But we are to an extent talking about a broader issue here. That is snap. The thing is, that if you would back at the data, on the average participants and the population of those that receive snow boots boots over the years, something does not add up. What i mean by that is this. Go back to 1992, there was a recession so there were 25 Million People on snap. As the economy of improved, as you would expect, the number of people receiving the Supplemental Nutritional Program reduced by quite a bit. He went down the 17 million in 2000. Then it crept up, into zero seven with 26 million and then we had the socalled Great Recession so granted you would expect to increase, however, it increased from 28 million in 2008, those on the snap program to 45 million in 2000 excuse me 47 million in 2013. 45million in 2015, that is equivalent to the population of 22 states. The entire population of 22 states was on snap program. Sixteen, 17, 18, 19, weve got a far better economy than we did five years ago. Weve got many jobs going unfulfilled. The farm bill last year did have the idea of some work requirements. I believe it was between the ages of 19 and 56 if you are able bodied and not caring for children, you needed to work. I think it was 30 hours, if you still work and your income method demand then you would receive the snap benefits. It did not get past. So what we now have done, over the last two years, is not change the criteria, to my understanding, but enforce eligibility requirements. We now have 34 Million People last year. 34million versus years passed so in 2,017,000,000. In 2019, after reducing it double that. Thats still 18 states. Eighteen states. All population on the snap program. So i guess youve gotta understand its a reasonable question when hundreds of thousands of jobs being created, very strong economy, 3. 5 , not my district, i get if there theres still a lot of work to be done and needs to be included in the strong economy, but overall its going very well. So placing reasonable work requirements on snap recipients, and by the way if they cant get a job, the farm bill called for 20 hours of volunteer service, would have sufficed and clearly not have raised their income level so they still wouldve been recipients. I just find it hard to believe that we dont want to take into consideration levels of accountability and have an organized approach when the money isnt there for those who need it. I make that comment and asked for your comment in response so we have low income households receiving the extra help they need working two or three parttime jobs. But it is very high level with 34 million versus 20 years ago 17 million prickle so that is a bit of a disparity. With no further questions we can begin to bring the hearing to a close prickle thank you to the witnesses on both the first and second panel and i would like to recognize my friend and the Ranking Member for an a statement. And to give usda authorities and that no veteran should go hungry we serve on this committee. And to explore this more and i appreciate your testimony but so that our veterans to provide for them in the future but yes absolutely. No veteran should go hungry and will continue to work on this issue i appreciate everyones input today and i yelled back. And we look forward to working on a bipartisan basis to address this issue. Thank you for your hard questions today and we are voting on a row powers resolution. Those extraordinary character and sacrificing for a national security. The least we could do is provide our military families and veterans with Food Security. How many veterans will be impacted through the snap program and i appreciate that usda agreed to work with the v. A. At the very least to provide us with that data. But that doesnt tell the whole story or go far enough and how will this impact them . And hearing from veterans themselves its critically important to make sure that happens in the weeks and months ahead. I am particularly concerned with how usda works with v. A. To communicate better that they did not see fit to have those nongovernmental experts prickle it doesnt take an act of congress to pick up the phone or communique or speak with one another about a level of concer concern. So to set the highest expectations of military to serve our country. We need to set equally High Expectations of ourselves to serve them. We should not allow a single veteran in need to go hungry ever. Its not that hard. All members of five legislative days and without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned and without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned and without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] i am literally on the stage right now because 15 years ago a lawyer changed his life and changed his mind to represent families, one of the mind that were discriminating against