Has published many works as well. Many historical so we will let them talk about their books and then q a that you enjoy. It is always a real pleasure to be back here. When we would be sitting together i was as elated first was a great admirer of your work one is elliotts editors. And over the years ive come to admire his work with that overlaps with the spanishamerican war and is personal experience and things to finding common and outside we wrestled for who would go first. I will let you all guess how that all worked out. So i will talk about my book so how did i come to this one is cute and nostalgic entry 92. That superficial version of the roughriders story was part of the narrative. And with the spanishamerican war. And then part of a history writer to go explore those things you find interesting. At a certain point to decide more about that in history and to help define through the 20th century who we are today. Ii felt like this was one of those. And going through old obituaries and that would be a good way to find those who were important at the time the lost into history. That for any other reason as a roughriders so my suspicion started to grow there is more to this story that is part of why we remember the roughriders but the more researchbu i did it was more glaringly apparent at the time they were celebrated coming back from cuba in new york city for a variety of reasons everybody wanted to touch the roughriders. They were famous. They embodied something what america thought of itself at the time. And the war itself was an important moment that was also forgotten. We learned a few things about hathe spanishamerican war. Forget most of that and move on. But the economy was growing the cities were growing america said were up there with europe and w britain. But we are also very different and how will we define ourselves in a world we dont want to be like russia or germany but we do. We want to be a world power so what does it mean to be an American World power . This is a striking thing america had no military to speak of but with land forces a 26000 soldier cap. Most are spread around the country to be a soldier was one step up and a lot of towns there were sundown was because they were so demeaned in the public eye but then we did not have enough soldiers to go to war. One of the reasons it was created is we had 26000 soldiers and it needed more the best we could depend on was the half serious state level regiment fragoso roosevelt has an ide idea, it is actually harebrained but we will get Police Officers and veterans throw them together and give thems trading we will assume the lifestyle and the background will give them one make them good soldiers then roosevelt could just say this and they say yes. Thatss fine. Go do that. It is inconceivable except it was a desperate situation. Roosevelt did that. The weird thing is that it worked and roosevelt himself had a great media following to make sure he got the best press and the very good officer starting off as Lieutenant Colonel and became the kernel so ran the regiment on that day and then comported himself very well especially keeping them man in line as a siege after the battle and he kept them inhe line. Americans saw this and what was going on and the war as a whole as an immoral war. People saw this as a humanitarian intervention this is what america does this is the rule but these stories and there was a terrible were going on in this insurrection were hundreds of thousands and there is a justification to do something but it became the story that the regiment like the roughriders came together change the way they saw the military and what it meant to serve and to have power not only to cart on conquer the world but to free them this doesnt change overnight but to put in place a way of thinking about ourselves the 20h century became a dominant narrative severity end of world war ii america could do no wrong. So we need a large army to fight the fascist we can have a conversation for another day but that was how we saw that message that is a microcosm of buthe regiment and speaks to why this is so insignificant one significant why we have to learn that. So because i have a book and we are here i just want to the big battle was the battle of San Juan Hill so those two things basically that americans were trying to let the spanish Atlantic Fleet was bottled up the only way to capture was to go by land to capture the city. They sent 16000 men so the roughriders were calvary. Do you evers, see paintings right away thats not accurate it did not happen but the americans got to the outskirts of santiago. There is no San Juan Hill there are multiple hills. So july 1st, 1898 is the day they decided to do something about it. At 4 00 a. M. On july 1st 17000 men they crawl out from under their blankets and under their tent. More than 10000 soldiers were rounded up for San Juan Hill to prepare for the assault on another town that they could see the glow 7 miles away framing San Juan Hill like a halo with the inclination they set small fires to fry some bacon. If you had illusions about the day had in store. And then with the civil war. And those that would follow 20th century and a one day assault on the provincial capital in the caribbean the spanish defenses were formidable but the landscape of the battle of Lookout Mountain but yet the battle of San Juan Heights is the most important and contested engagement of history those member loan of topography tell us those that had the extraordinary significance of what they were to undertake. That is the First Experience of combat and their last they were right to be afraid at the end of the dayay one out of every six would be dead or wounded. Something collective and energizing. And then to declare the United States army could be the military power. With those enlisted regulars and then thats hardly an army at all. And then to be mostly demoralized. And then to consider the numbers were in their favor limited to deploy to many of the men on the northwest side. Resulting in a nearly ten one ratio. How many mistakes they had made our come close to erasing the advantage. Now they knew it would come next if they want or if they lost but is unlikely anyone realized o there was no plan for victory or defeat the one thing which are with dozens of correspondence news would spread around the world thanks to the telegraph in person watching the battle unfold that morning around the campfire there was only this valley or hill or fight. I thought that was great. I was not a rough writer but i was a marine for many years. This sets up the book briefly. s gets from a chapter called the revolution crowd to the streets the marches and the songs the revolution is over the work and began. In along the northern border with turkey and it comes at odd intervals the Islamic State battles the brigade of the Free Syrian Army and then it begins to climb perfectly straight as an obelisk and the monument among the hills of turkeys southern border. And then to see who crossed here one year later the Islamic State today the groups name Means Nothing they are virtually unknown. All i know is standing along the road just next to the Border Crossing everything is confusion the mornings refugees to know what to do with themselves so they move the suitcases from one side of the road to the other with a single bench between the overhang they read the schedule that had no meaning and they dont come they glance at their watches to check the time which has no meaning. And to point out how long theyt must rate and then to be stalled at the border. But it cant go back confusion is halted for 16 wheelers. [applause] primarily as a novelist my primary books was also a journalist and then to travel to Southern Turkey in 2013. But with a friend of mine who was a humanitarian aid worker spending time in iraq and afghanistanmi and when that war was ending and beginning. The revolution was coming down it seems strange now but at the beginning of this took place nobody knew who the Islamic State was. They were just staggering onto the scene. And with that secular part of the revolution but i started to travel with my friend. As he started this organization it is a 30 minute drive from the Border Crossing and this is whats contested. So matt started up his organization with those syrians who were living as refugees. He was from damascus with the british consulate for many years greatnephew with one of ssoviets paul lori at. And working together with the new venture. So in our house office i was making dinner he drives out of his up all day working and then walks into the house and said how was your day . But then there is a whisper of a town on the turkish Syrian Border and the north side of the tracks is tricky the sell side is syria. And i met someone i said okay who is that guy. And if you like you would really get along. [laughter] and that my instinct was telling them that to have a cup of tea in the Syrian Border that may not go over as well. That you spend time in iraq. And we will see how it goes. And then the guns and fighters where i find is a marine for many years. And then to decide early on but if you are fighting radical jihadists or activists like my friend. Those to fight the edgy hard. So in this cafe the whole idea was very simple and then we talk about the war so as were talking you can imagine the questions we expect a rapport say do you think we can tell them crack say say yes that was translated in says i thought that was the case. And theres the questions you can imagine very simple. Was the toughest thing . And all these things but the desire that infused it in that gamble was that the wars were defining of my young life and when you are at war you are engaged in the dance with your adversary and partner. You can feel them acting on you when you act against them. Very rarely do you ever see your partner. So i have a curiosity and then to understand the person i was fighting against. And then to be defined by the same experience. And that there was no overlap. And then the o ieds and then to slide off into the along tropes of that dogma so the end of days battle all christians would be killed. Would be sitting there as a democratic activist and would be translating. The meeting kept going on and on then the more frustrated he e would get. And his participation that is a irrefutable cause in the heights of the arab spring went out to the streets to demand democratic reforms of the authoritarian regime that impresses people foria decades. He has seen his cause d mpletely hijacked and undermined by other forces of the radical islam is. It was evident to t me with that ideology into english buteo also reflected my own experience had some overlap with that ideology. I was 24 is not fashionable to say and then extensively with iraq or afghanistan to bring democracy for those who b had under regimes or saddam hussein. We didnt do very different means that the that strangely that made us veterans. And then i fought against al qaeda and iraq as it undermines what were trying to do undermining that connection. So the meeting goes on and on a lot of drinking tea and losmoking cigarettes at the four hour mark. I need a break. That we cannot talk. So it is as awkward as to 13 yearolds on their first date. And i have my notebook in front ofof me. I have a very rudimentary map of syria and iraq at the border. Then writes down the name ofan a number. s life my number next to his number. And now they chase each other eround a map because thats where we fought and we were trying to see if we have been fighting in the same place at the same time. What i realized this connection the night before what really dawned on me was dates and names and the language even if he was sitting there he could not have translated. So this is about those overlaps the Syrian Civil War whats going on with the kurds today and where we find similarities p and to be very very different thank you. [applause] feel free to ask any questions. When i was hearing you talk the impact of the war had of theer americans perspective that american exceptionalism took on a global perspective going back to colonial times it is a shift looking at the us place in the. World. s over that preceding decade to reduce not perfectly applicable but that hamiltonian view of that jeffersonian view government or pass on past oral and exceptional in that sense of the city on a hill. Anyone besides hamilton expresses the view we do not go forth and that was the dominant view. When we would go to war for support that would be for the civil war with those conflicts and then it is the internal question which isun countervailing that america is a growing country with centralized decisions of the view we have Strong Military to defend themselves that as a undergraduate and looking at the war of 1812 what happens os we are not so to be more positive with that offense of you is america can shape the world and to shape the world that say thats for s economic reasons and to have that he on idealistic view to bring the city on the hill to america. And the world and thats what came to aar head but the spanishamerican war. All americans agreed that we would Carry Forward but if that seed was planted in a resolution too that conflict with that 2003 or 2004 with the iraq war there was coverage of the lead up to the spanishamerican war where if you would go out it is a one e the exact same thing to rebuild cuba looking over the philippines and was the same thing again. It was a disaster actuallyly cuba wasnt that much of a disaster that those that they criticize the spanish now we did the filipinos and that is that very rapid ironyed and tragedy that is repeated throughout the 20th century. At if you speak about this in that region quick. I dont. And then to respond to the massive humanitarian disaster. I just feel there is a book there. So there are many books that will be read. I certainly hope so. I road to peace the other day in the New York Times about a woman who recently became atl mayor in iraq in a small community. Even difficulty holding the position and threatened she would put herselff on fire. But the garbage sex were taken out to the people to get them just to pick up the garbage in theld trash and they wouldnt do what and what struck me was what is their selfinterest for caring for their own neighborhood or community that would not even allow them to do a simple thing to Work Together to clean up the t community . How could anybody establish anything in that setting . I like to make ann observation. I cannot speak to that story because i have not read itit but they are incredibly intact communities but this is also a part of the world where history really matters with religious and ethnicti identitiesft we have a tendency toet believe that we can do anything or go to any part of the world if only we could figure out the exact alchemy of policy positions we can solve these problems. If you spend time in that part of the world it becomes very clear that these are not our problems. They are not ours to solve. The people to live there determine how they live for the construct of their countries and communities and we are ancillary actors and we can help on the margins that we should not try to drive solution and in thee past we have done that is not only gotten us into trouble but also not to the benefit of those who live in those communities. But it is all incredibly complex and its difficult to know the right balance of helping and stay out of it. Thank you from both of you. So picking up where you left off with the language of overlap, so to have that insight in that language to get to that place that those with the conflict and there are all of these strategies and just if you have any insiders i think we could agree there is no shortage of voices highlighting and accentuating to all of us the ways we are different and the voices that encourage us to parse our differences. I was a professional soldier for many years and since i cameme out i think it strange going from novelist to artist thinking what does art do . We all like that experience of going to a film and you cry because it was moving or you go to a museum and see an t overwhelmingse work of art and you are taken aback staring at it but for me when i work on a book if its going well and im writing, i will feel something if i have done my job as an artist well the reader might read whatha i wrote and feel some small percentage of what i felt when i put that down on the page. I call that emotional transference ive taken my emotionson and transferred them to you. Just as an artist in the museum. That is and him pretty sharedble thing of humanity that i am human i feel this i had it to you and you also feel something. So in this time when we are encouraged in every single way to focus on differences come i feel are just one of the few places we continually are encouraged to affirm the ways we arere the same that almost feels like a defiant act that is inherently optimistic. A when you are over there and you come back, do you write while you are in action or reminisce as it comes back quick so or do you have these moments not a tiffany that relayed ability as opposed to when you are actuallyci experiencing wars . Does it come back to you cracks are for example. Yes. I like to think my books are narrative nonfiction but one of the challenges obviously and i cant just make up staff and they dont have access. I cant interview i just have to document what they left behind. There is imagination doing interpreting so that is the challenge. The exciting part of being a writer of history is two parts then to feel this obviously had it places in the second year law student. So i need to join this conflict and his cousin prior said with his father who was from the civil war generation and said i know what thats like i dont want you to go so there is this back and t forth with the sisters and how did he work through that . And the deal was he could finish the school year then go off and that happened so he joined the roughriders and going to cuba. But he left a wonderful record that feels very modern and to me but then as a civilian to decide and you have felt a certain way. I need to go this but then theres something in there other characters in the book who liked that and then you see and this story which could be a dry history than the t emotional power that will lead people through the book but also communicate something that i am trying to convey. Sometimes it feels like being a puppeteer because its not my experience. All i am doing is trying to tell somebody elses story but trying to. So that it is something that you wrestle with at least in my position. You want them to be honest and transparent. I dont want to give Theodore Miller emotions i dont feel are motivations that i dont feel but do it in a way that is powerful. So now to make all that work in the end is a challenge and the joy of writing. I also work as a journalist so a lot of times that will feed my fiction but what you are looking for are these little gems that convey a character real or imagined like humanity i think we all know that gatsby calls but just those Little Details as a writer you look for that and so much of who you are and then to have that translated writing fiction i feel like there with me but that im standing in a field there is a lot of tall dry grass of my job is to set the field on fire i have two flints in my hand im banging them together like crazy and im trying to catch sparks. That hase, actually happened weatherrelated weather emotionally and trying to catch this field on fire the sparks come from the flint in the fires just your imagination and the stuff that you make up but i feel like when imed frustrated i banging my hand together but when i get going trust me its a great feeling. You have written a lot of stuff. How challenging is it to shift so dramatically to i another topic quick. Its funny. I dont know how muchk you prepare was the question i dont want to get . [laughter] and one of those is that oneo because it includes what i ask myself a lot do i just pick and choose whats interesting to me . Certainly the first part has to be true. All of these are fascinated and what really motivates me to write about is the history. T industry in american history, but also theres something expressive about the american character that comes through in the history of american spirits. But, you know, a book like this, my last book was about the civil rights act, i think the thing that fascinates me particularly about the 20th century and lets say the period going from around this time up through right before i was born. I was born in 1976 and, you know, whats that span like, right . The ascendancy of america in its own mind and also in the world. So what is the development of that character and what are the tensions in that character. My background academically, to the extent that i have an academic background, i studied International Relations and history. And so i, something that really fascinated me about this was the opportunity to do both of those. What does this story thats sort of archetypal story about these men and this man, theodore roosevelt, what does that say about the american character in relation to Americas Movement into the world . And how did it define how we i saw ourselves in the world . And that, i think, follows through all the way up to our debates around the civil rights act. Who were we as a country, especially a country that, you know, was telling the world and telling ourselves that we were the bastion of liberty and freedom and equality, and yet were oppressing an enormous part of that, of our people. And so i think that there is kind of a thread that goes through there. But, you know, i also dont want to bear down on that too much because in the end theyre just things i find fascinating as well. All right. So this concludes our discussion portion. Both authors are going to be in the tent signing their books. The books are also for sale under the tent, so feel free to go in there and discuss with the authors if you didnt get to ask your question. And we just want to thank elliot and clay both for being here today from new y