Transcripts For CSPAN2 Education Secretary DeVos On Education Freedom Scholarships At AEI 20240714

Pleased to have i like to say that its a washington based think tank. We have from arizona, tennessee and pennsylvania, and they will talk about how some of the issues in washington affect the children and parents in those parts of the country and really, thats what our discussion is all about. How can we make our schools better. Now, a little bit a sense of how i come to this issue and why i think its so important. Some of you may know i spent 20 years in the social services in new york and working on the ways we help people get into work and out of poverty and move up economically. Personal responsibility, work, work supports, those things were important, but i always knew there was another domain, another domain of activity that was equally important to our safety net programs. Maybe more important in our safety net programs in helping struggling families moving up and helping their children move up economically and that was the world of education. And no one has done more, it seems to me, in expanding options and choices and fighting for giving parents and children the ability to make choices about their future and escape what i was what i perceived in the city of new york and have perceived across the country failing Public Schools than the current secretary of education, betsy. Devos. And so as i look at this and i think about this issue and think about the proposal that the secretary is going to talk about today, it seems to me, it is about just that, how do we provide options for families and children so they can make the choices they need to make important changes in the future, no issue is more important than helping families move up economically and at aei thats the principal focus of our work. Im happy to have secretary devos and her husband dick, theyre friends of aei, were honored to have you, thank you for being here. Thank you. [applaus [applause] well, thank you all, good morning. And thank you to aei for hosting this Important Forum today. Robert, thanks for your hospitality and for your principled conservative leadership, especially now in your new role. Its always a pleasure to be back here with so many friends. Our ideas are advanced by the work of this institute. There are many who have worked with the cause of education freedom and for our nations students, especially rick and nat. So im looking forward to our conversation today. Were here to talk about education freedom scholarships. Let me just say a few things about our proposal to set the table before our discussion. Here is what it is. A 5 billion annual federal income tax credit for voluntary contributions to 501 c3 nonprofit organizations that provide scholarships that students. The key element of the proposal is freedom. Freedom for everyone involved. Students, families, teachers, schools, states, any and all can choose to participate or they can elect not to participate. Thats what freedom is all about. We know gaining this freedom will require more work in some states than others and certainly in that body up the hill. But as more states offer more options to families, demand will rise and pressure will mount on those who have not yet embraced the students. Ultimately, freedom scholarships require only one thing, students and parents must be empowered to make decisions and choices. It should come as no surprise to anyone in this room why weve stepped forward with a bold transformative idea for students. American education isnt working for too many of them. Weve known this for more than 35 years. The devastating landmark report, a nation at risk, detailed the dire state of American Education and warned us all, and i quote, history is not kind to idlers. Well, if theres any word to describe too many parts of American Education today, its idle. Youve seen our nations report card. You know what i mean. Two and three of our nations 8th graders arent proficient in any core subject. Twothirds. We also know this, the United States ranks 24th in reading, 25th in science and 40th in math in the world. Youve heard me talk about these results before and i dont take any pleasure in reminding anyone about them. Yet, there are many who Pay Lip Service to the sorry state of affairs in American Education, but offer more and more of the same as a solution. More spending, more regulation, more government. They assure us that this time it will work. This time it will be different. Yet, as its said in these halls, we are being mugged by reality daily. Thats why now is the time to do something different. Something better. Embrace the thing that makes america great, freedom. The freedom to learn, the freedom to grow, the freedom to rise, the freedom to pursue happiness. On this we can all agree, or at least we should be able to. So i remain dumbfounded that some conservatives who masquerade as education reformers have criticized this proposal. Who would have thought that ted cruz or i of all people would be accused of trying to grow the federal government. Think about that for a minute. You all know me. Ive fought alongside many of you for more than 30 years to expand the freedom of families and diminish the role of government in our lives. I wouldnt support anything that violates my principles or ours. Here is what our education freedom scholarship proposal doesnt do. It doesnt grow the government bureaucracy one tiny bit. It doesnt create a new Government Office of School Choice. It doesnt impose any it doesnt impose any new requirements on states or on families. It doesnt take a single dollar from Public School students and it doesnt spend a single dollar of government money. And it doesnt entangle schools with federal strings or stifling red tape. In fact, it cant. And thats by design. The truth is, our proposal is a highly efficient and effective way of funding education. It connects the dollars to the students, not the system. With no bureaucratic sponge in between. The education freedom scholarships are the conservative answer to what ails education in america. They also happen to be the answer that a super majority of parents, particularly africanamerican and hispanic parents are looking for. They are the reason education freedom is on the march from florida to pennsylvania, from illinois to arizona, and many places in between. Ive just come back from a tour across the midwest to highlight opportunities education freedom will provide. At over stop i heard from students, families, teachers and local lawmakers about how education freedom is changing liv lives, but i also heard the loud voices of bullies who are threatened by that freedom. Now, its their right to demonstrate and to protest and to say sick things. What worries me though is the message theyre sending to parent and students. Big union bullying is flatout unjust. Its unfair to the many students and parents who simply want better for themselves or their sons or their daughters. Ive been blessed to get to know many, many families who have exercised education freedom. Many have low incomes. Many are black or hispanic. Many are burning the candle at both ends to make ends meet and help their children have a better life. They arent antiPublic School or for privatization. They couldnt care less about how a school is legally structured or how the funds flow. They care about their kids. They care about them getting a great education. They care about them being safe. They care about how schools can help them prepare their children for successful careers and meaningful lives. On the other hand, union bosses dont put kids first. They dont put kids futures first. They put themselves first. Look no further than west virginia. Many of you remember the first strike which kept students from learning for two weeks. The second strike is far more telling. There was already in place a deal for yet another pay raise. So why did union bosses force another strike . Because the bill would have also allowed for up to seven Charter Schools. And would have created esas for a very small number of families, maybe enough to satisfy or to serve less than one third of 1 , about a thousand of west virginias 300,000 students. This is clearly antiparent and antistudent. Education freedom is pro parent and pro student. Its not antiPublic School. If your school is working for your child, you can stay put. One parents freedom to make a choice doesnt mean you have to make a doesnt mean everyone else has to make the same choice. Education freedom isnt did elevating one type of school over another, its about trusting parents and believing in students. My mission is to unleash a new era of innovation and education to drive unprecedented achievement. It will happen in public and private schools alike. And we should embrace that. Our obligation isnt to any type of school, its to students. Americas students can lead the world because america must continue to lead the world. Its time we put them first and thats exactly what education freedom scholarships will do. Thank you, and i am looking forward to our conversation. [applaus [applause] thank you, madam secretary. That was terrific. Im rick hess director of policy studies at aei. We now have 30 minutes of conversation with the secretary and the pleasure of being joined by Kellyanne Conway senior counsellor to the United States. Thank you for joining us. All right. Madam secretary, you talked a bit about the education freedom scholarships, but wonder if first we could go a bit more into the nittygritty. So you mentioned that these complement existing programs in the states. What are those programs in the states . How does this complement those . How does this all work . Well, thanks again, rick for the opportunity to be here and kellianne, its great to see you and be here with you. So states can decide whether or not theyd want to participate in this program and there are many states today that actually have some kind of choice program. Most of them have public Charter Schools and many of them have private School Choice programs. What this proposal would do is be a booster to all of those programs. It could augment and expand existing programs or weve also encouraged people to think more broadly about what new creative ways they could use the funds that would come from the Tax Credit Program to help satisfy the need in their state. And i think about rural states in particular. Many times people will say, well, theres no you know, theres no way were going to have another building next to a rural high school. But i say, well, think differently about what choice can mean. What about students in that school, one of whom might want to study something that that school couldnt possibly offer. That school or that child, that student, could elect to take that course virtually from the finest teacher somewhere in the world. Or perhaps theres a handful of students in that school who learn differently, but dont have the opportunity to go somewhere else physically to school. Theres no reason they couldnt opt to have a microschool within their school that approached their education, their learning differently and allow them the right fit for them there. So theres no end to the ways to be creative to really implement choices for families and this is meant to really help jump start states that havent taken that leap, to encourage them to do that, not mandate it, and to augment states that already have taken that leap and want to continue to provide opportunities for students. So, counsellor, it sounds like were talking about more than private School Choice programs, more than Charter Schools. I hear the secretary talking about a variety of options. How does this work . Say a state already has some of these programs, who decides theyre there. How do they work . How does this money support this program . If Congress Enacts this law, how does it change anything in these statesments let me show the gratitude for anybody watching now or in the future. The secretary gave a very powerful set of opening remarks, i think touched upon many different aspects here and id like to amplify some of those after i answer this particular question. So in about 18 states they have programs and theyve obviously opted in. These are not red or blue politically. Theyre diverse. From arizona to florida and the way that these work federally you have a Scholarship Granting Organization and usually involves educators, education specialists, perhaps others could weigh in, but they have to approve of the formula. They have to approve of who or what whom or what would receive the actual moneys and what they would do with that. One thing that comes with the freedom the secretary has so eloquently spoken to this morning is flexibility. And one of the main points of appeal to me as a Public Policy practitioner, as somebody who works on behalf of the country and took an oath to the constitution and as a parent, is the flexibility to use those monies, certainly for the classroom and for traditional curriculum and structuring, for tutoring, for virtual learning, for needs that the educators may have identified in that area and that is really why, even though its a its on your federal tax form, the deduction you would take, the credit you would take, it doesnt release your Tax Liability, but it increases the optionality for the students in the states and with that freedom comes the flexibility. And i think thats incredibly important. So this does not disturb the state program. Its best practices that show, hey, this is working on a state by state level. Theyve been wildly successful. Its true if you build it they will come. Who has come . Many organizations because they figure if theyre paying taxes anyway and get a tax credit and readily direct the money to scholarship granting students in their own states, and this is something thats been a priority for this president certainly the education freedom scholarships. Just the overall flexibility for freedom agenda. The first time i met cory booker before he Held Public Office was in the Public Education space, manhattan or newark, new jersey. And he was a groomsman and he was able to across that aisle and the secretary described it as dumbfounding. Its a lack of bipartisan on what is essentially a nonpartisan issue. We should put the kids first and education on criminal Justice Reform and i think the drug crisis. Every single democrat who voted for hr6, the most comprehensive piece in our history a year ago, every democrat voted in favor of this. We can do this when its as fundamental and nonpartisan in nature as giving people access to more treatment and more prevention and education when it comes to drugs, making sure people who have paid their debt to society are no longer languishing in prison and in this case, giving these children, these students more flexibility and freedom to learn and to prosper and to be economically independent. Lets stay with that for a second. Counsellor, you just mentioned the first step act, there was broad bipartisan support. Obviously weve not seen that thus far with regard to the education freedom scholarships. Whats the difference here . Why is it playing out for differently in the one education in criminal justice refo reform. Well both speak to that. The secretary futched upon the influence of the unions and she was remarking that the union bosses dont put the students first. Na is true. And i would challenge and defy each of them to prove otherwise. What are they so afraid of . This doesnt take money away from the Public Schools, it just amplifies the number of and actually helps the Public Schools in that as the secretary said, maybe that cool already offers courses and resources that another institution of learning does not so perhaps theyll benefit as well from this. But i notice a lot, many of the folks who are against, who dont put the students first, also dont put their own children in the Public Schools. And that is a cruel irony lets just call it hypocrisy. Its past 9 a. M. And tuesday and congress is in recess. Its ironic, but hypocritical as well. So back to my point, where you have Elizabeth Warren of all people formally talking about the benefit of fully funded vouchers and all the freedom and flexibility that would wrought that could bring, that could deliver. The aforementioned cory booker, many, Many Democrats over the years. I remember working with senator Joe Lieberman and representative and pastor floyd flake on education reform in a bipartisan fashion in the congress 20 years ago and the only thing thats changed the only thing that changed is we have more students in need. I would challenge any of them to say this is a pure naked raw politics and that really is too unfortunate because we have an entire generation suffering from the lack much bipartisan support, but hope springs eternal and maybe they will see whats happened in their own states, these 18 states and growing and what could happen if we just put it to the test of the federal level. And i would just echo what kellian kellianne kellyan kellyanne said. Theyve had the expansion and inconceivable that we would be in a place where democrats resist and deny the benefit to students that freedom can provide and that opportunity for each to find their right fit would mean ultimately for our nation. So lets talk a bit about the scope of the proposal. Theres the figure 5 billion attached to it. How does that work . Is that is the anticipation there would be 5 billion a year in contributions . How would this be allocated across states . So the yes, 5 billion annual fund that individuals or corporations would choose to voluntarily contribute a portion of their federal tax bill to one of these 501 is c3 organizations. So participation states would name the 501 c3s that receive them and if all 50 states participated, each state would get a portion of those funds as is designated by the title 2a formulation. So a combination of considercation of poverty and population and for those, if the states chose not to participate, those funds would go then to the ones that did choose to participate, and i think there would be a lot of a lot of pressure from internally from folks in the states that chose not to, to actually join in and provide those opportunities. And for states that already have programs, their 501 c3s would be grandfathered in so they would automatically participate and expand the programs and do something in addition if they wanted to. How big an increase would the 5 billion potentially represent to what states are currently seeing in their 501 c3 programs compared to say, the state tuition program. Is this a big increase compared to whats already out there . Well, for all of the participating states. It would be a significant boost to what theyre doing today. And you know, the suggestion being that states ultimately want to and need to take this opportunity seriously and expand within their own state. But i think about the prospects for florida, which is the state that i often cite as the one thats most advanced in their providing freedom and opportunities for students. This would be a significant boost to and, in fact, ive heard from Governor Desantis regularly how important this would be to their efforts there. So if we combine, say, existing florida programs. How much do we know roughly how much that involves a year in terms of total dollars . Im trying to recall and im the mental math is not coming back as quickly as it should. But this would represent in concert with what theyre already doing, a very significant boost and would really help to satisfy the demand that they have thats built up around tens of thousands of students. So and lets talk about florida for a moment if we can. Obviously, former governor jeb bush was a huge proponent of alternatives to the conventional Public School system and is very popular for having accomplished that with the state legislature. In florida, whats going on right now is they basically saved money, as they have in pennsylvania. Pennsylvania saved about a half billion dollars. Its not about saving money, but its about repurposing the money to fit the needs of the students. Were not wearing green eye shades here and talking about education, but it does talk about how more efficiently and more targeted you can be with those resources. In florida, and i read the statistics, about 40 of africanamericans are the recipien recipients, 24, 25 hispanic. So youre talking about many different communities benefitting in the states where these scholarships, the funds are already available. And you also see people talking to other people in states, you know, relatives and friend and say why dont we have that here . You see the grass roots pressure among the parents and other shake stakeholders and saying why dont we have that here . To the secretarys point. As they have with schools and charters, sort of going up the steps to state capitols and impressing on the leaders in their states to help with the programs. At the level that were happy to be big federalists to recognize this does not expand the federal role, role. I have to push back from the right, expanding the federal role in education, no. This actually allows the states and the local public the local School Systems and parents indeed to have more power and flexibility just by recognizing a tax credit on your federal tax forms. So lets stay with the mechanics of that a bit. I think it can help us think about these concerns about the federal role. How does this actually work . So, i think is this something that would exist in the u. S. Department of education . How would this actually operate . It would just simply be a portal at treasury. So every state that chose to participate would submit the list of one or more 501 c3 organization to be the recipient of the federal tax funds and it would simply maintain the list. It would not create any new bureaucracy to administer it. The states really ultimately will administer, you know, indirectly the through the 501 is c3 entities, but it really is a vehicle and as i said, in my remarks, it is a very efficient and effective way to get Education Funding directly to the students that need it most. And really bypass a lot of bureaucratic sponge in between. And i think its so simple that it confounds people sometimes. Thats washington for you. What about a skeptic who says thats pretty good, but what about fraudulent 501 is c3s. What if theyre taking to the cleaners by somebody playing games . How does that work . So the legislation requires that there be, you know, auditing of the organizations and of course, 501 c3s, first of all, have to be approved by the irs to exist in the first place and theres a requirement to 90 of the funds be distributed. No more than 10 be used in administration, but other than that, its a Pretty Simple approach and many states that actually have tax credit scholarship programs today have really good models for this. Its not like youd have to reinvent the wheel. Other states could look to those models and either emulate them or do something slightly different. But theres so many good models already in existence. This is a way for them to grow them in a meaningful way. Youve both alluded to concerns from the right about this getting washington, being washington overreach and getting washington too involved in education. Given what youve just described, whats the nature of those concerns and where do you think theyre getting it wrong . Well, those critics on the right are absolutely correct that the federal government is already way too involved in education. Nobodys going to disagree with that, including the secretary of education and the president and vicepresident of the United States. So thats a given. But theres so theres always a suspicion that once the government is way too intrusive. Invasive and expansive in education and many areas of our life that this would continue to open the flood gates. The criticism is illfounded. Respectfully, because this does not expand the federal role. It gives freedom and flexibility. If you look past people their stopping way too linear and constricted to say its federal tax form, its federal tax dollars. There are no strings to that. Thats why you have the seats to decide who should receive the monies and then how they should be distributed or let them decide how to use them. That is flexibility and freedom at its core and, but those concerns, i respect them. I disagree with them, but they also are relatively muted to a couple of restricted to just limited a couple of places. This has tremendous support among many conservatives and rank and file republicans, i would say, and also libertarians who look at the freedom agenda in our education system. Yeah, and i would discuss just add to that. Every major religious organization that it deals with education, is supporting this proposal and as have many of the statebased allies, all of the statebased allies that have dealt with this issue on a state by state basis, they see the benefit of really having a vehicle for individuals to get funds directly to Scholarship Granting Organizations that will ultimately benefit students directly. And the polling is there. I want to interject that, too. People say look at the polling, this is popular, this is not popular. The polling is irrefutable. Many americans, majority of americans including key demographic groups who would benefit from this, the appetite is there and the Public Opinion is there. The publics intent or mood, willingness to try something of this nature. Along with School Choice and charters and other alternatives. So for those who watch the polls and pretend that as poll numbers increase they must follow. Theyre just not doing this. And this is getting in the way of public appetite. This is a wonky room. Give us particulars out of the polling data that speak to you. I have them there in that bag, i can grab them. So afraid to touch a womans hand bag. I know, nothing in there. [laughter] and i could grab them for you, but weve soon the polling data. We have vast majorities of hispanics, africanamericans, Public School mothers, saying that they support when its described in objective terms what this would provide and i want to describe to them, 18 other states have had it. This is whats happened to those states. More and more, i worked for many years i had a client, eva and her Success Charter Network in new york beginning when she started those, she had just come back from a betsy devos type of conference out in jackson hole where they started their theyre enormous success. Why is it a success . She built it and the appetite grew and the buzz grew and then you had the labyrinthlike lines in the block and just to get a spot in the lottery, its random. They were hoping that chance would go their way so theyve had to increase. The other statistics i would tell you because i thought it was a clever poll that someone did. They actually asked people what would you do to improve education for your kids and over 60 say they would forego going out to eat for a year. Theyd forgo specialty coffee or caffeine for a year. God forbid. Im speaking to a privileged wonky audience in washington d. C. , but theyre saying, i would make the sacrifice if the benefit for my child were increased. Here were saying you dont have to make more of a sacrifice. Money will come to you by allowing this mechanism to be in place. Secretary, im curious, youve had an opportunity to speak to people in the states and communities about this proposal. Im curious what struck you most. What doubts have you heard . Where have you found the warmest reception and what has stuck in your mind about it . Well, theres a really warm reception wherever ive talked about it and weve continued to convene leaders in states that many of whom are involved in this world already, but others who are sort of on the fringe and are skeptical, and the more we talk about the possibilities and the more we can help paint the picture for how it can specific how they could tailor some of their funds to their state to really meet needs in their particular state, i have to say the enthusiasm continues to grow and i think thats really part of the key is to really help people think more broadly about what this could mean for individual students, and in state specific environments. And i recent was in alaska and had the opportunity to go to one of the most remote villages there. And as i was there thinking about the challenges and the opportunities for students there, we talked about the fact that what they have to deal with and what they and whats relevant to those students is very, very different than students as geographically dispersed as miami. You cant get much further away geographically in our country than between those two points. To think that we would try to impose from washington or anywhere else a solution that is going to answer the needs for those students in alaska, versus miami, florida suggests that we just havent learned our lesson over the last 50 years. You know, you both have alluded to this, im curious. I mean, weve certainly heard lots of proposals from our progressive friends that we need to spend more on schools. I can understand them saying this is only 5 billion we also need the triple water. But im curious why theres such dead set opposition which sound like an opportunity to put more money into schools and kids who need it. I would say it comes down to a matter of control. And those who have interest, selfinterest want to control the resources. They want to control everything around the resources, and they dont want to let parents have the kind and students have the kind of freedom that were talking about because that means they lose control. But i look again at florida and how that environment in the last 20 years has changed for students across the state. And those who are in a Traditional School have realized and noticed the fact that as students make choices that are right for them, those students that remain in those Traditional Schools continue to do better and i would just reference the fact that in 40 years, since the department of education was founded, we have spent over 1 trillion at the federal level alone, trying to close the achievement gap. That achievement gap has not narrowed one bet. And so to suggest that doing more of the same thing is going to yield a different result is einsteins definition of insanity. We shouldnt do it, we should try something different. Were spending about 706 billion a year, i believe, in federal dollars, k through 12 to begin with. One of the more one of the points of consternation for me is how many of the democrats who are dead set against sadly this type of program, the education freedom scholarship, charter, works previously. Theyve shifted all the way to free college and forgiving college debt. What are we doing about every single student who needs a quality education now who should not be constricted by their zip code or their parents economic status. Thats horrible and thats whats happening. And i think its almost objectscation in a different way and that we would have free college and thats not fair on so many levels, but mainly because every student deserves an education through the 12th grade. Thats their right. Whether they choose to go to college or want to go to college, thats different. Thats less than half the country and much will he is than half the states in some places. What about the funds that were talking about, rick and madam secretary, would go to technical and vocational, perhaps, would go to alternative college . And i work in the administration where we have emphasized that. In fact, when i was governor pences poll, the number one popular issue he was governing on was expanding vocational and technical opportunities, it was through the roof because not everybody is college material. Thats great. Go graduate high school, you walk this way and youre going to lawsuit or college and lawsuit, i walk that way and im going to be the hair dresser the next day or a technician, 0 are a mechanic or work in the factory which now requires computer skills or be a welder. Go make 40 an hour the day after you graduate for high school, sounds pretty much. And were just not respecting the diversity of choices people make throughout their education post12 grade. And i think weve got we are in a movement here and having conversations here now about helping them at the kindergarten level to thrive and to have a better education thats more responsive to them individually and to the 21st century. Madam secretary, youve noted on prior, education it good for teachers. School of choice should be good for teachers. Square that for me. How is this for teacher making a difference for kids, why do you think they should be supportive of this proposal . First of all, it will afford them many more opportunities to find their niche and their fit as a teacher. I have talked with hundreds of teachers across the country and i ask them regularly, what kinds of things do they need to feel valued and supported and what is the environment like for them . And almost to a person, i hear that, while compensation is important, what we really need and what we really want is to feel valued. To have autonomy, to make decisions in our classrooms on behalf of our students because were the ones closest to them. And i think that in the attempt to try to make things better from a top down approach, much of their flexibility and autonomy has been taken away over the years and good teachers need to be unleashed to really be great at what they do. And commensurately, teachers who shouldnt be in the classroom who simply are a mismatch for, you know, for what theyre doing, probably should find a different vocation. And so, this i think this proposal will help teachers in a very fundamental way in that there will be alternativ alternatives, paths and alternatives, learning environmentals that may be a much better fit for them and will allow them to be compensated and recognized accordingly. For any of this to matter, obviously, this has to become law. And right now, as you both have noted several times today, d. C. Is a relatively polarized place. The parties have very different stances on this proposal. The white house and the house of representatives are in a conflict, shall we say. Whats the path forward for in to become law . For this to happen . Well, you may want to ask them. I think the country is watching how they spend your time and your money. We choose in your personal lives how we spend our time and our money. They work for us, they dont seem to be here very often and when they are, theyre focused on other things and other people, places and things, i would say and thats unfortunate, but they work for you. So the question really for the country is, how do you want them to spend your time . Do you think this is a worthwhile piece of legislation to put forth and work through the committees. I would say what are you afraid of . If you want to vote against it vote against it. Give others an opportunity to get there. I think theyre afraid to the vote that puts them at odds against School Children who would benefit from this. And the way they spend their time and Current Issues excepted, is remarkable for somebody who was in structural meetings and worked on Health Care Every day, will be with the president in florida on thursday when he talks about medicare and Health Care Building blocks. What are we afraid of. In the process of actually pushing this forward in a bipartisan way, the way the first set back was the ipo and drug crisis were. You may just help that many more School Children, either in your state or elsewhere. And this is the one where they truly have, i believe, partisan blinders on when it comes to educational freedom and i would say theres no excuse. Im not making a partisan comment. Im saying its disheartening and somewhat maddening it is particularly when theyre hypocritical. Im for this gives them a passport to the future and the dignity that goes with that. The last thing i would just say in this vein is the president wrote a book in 2000, where he talked about education freedom and he didnt call it education freedom scholarships, he was talking about alternatives, that there were failing kids in our educational system and in his first state of the union, if we put a man on the moon and dig out the panama canal and win two world wars we ought to be able to figure out a way to provide quality education to each student. Were ready at the white house and we can get him to sign that today, but we need real bipartis bipartisanship and priorities to put the kids first. Madam secretary, what, you know, whats the strategy to kind of push on that . Your allies in the states, your colleagues, what would you encourage them to do . How do you try to get this ball rolling . Well, it is a matter of personal diplomacy and in many cases, you really do need to help paint the picture of what can be because the issue has become very poll lahrized due to the opposition on the other side. But in the meetings that ive had in states, there is a real will to work with their particular delegation members and it really urged the passage of that legislation. Kellyanne absolutely right. The folks on capitol hill need to ask the hard questions how they can and why oppose this student. All you need to do is spend time with one or more students that have had the opportunity to have their life trajectory changed and its very hard to make the argument not to support it. And i urge and encourage all of them to do so. I know theres a great resistance to that. But it is the right thing and i for those who have the opportunity, every member of congress had the opportunity for their children or grandchildren to go to the schools that they deem right for them. They should extend that same opportunity to every child and every family in thinks nation. All right, with that, lets go ahead and open it up for a few questions. Weve got a couple of colleagues coming around with microphones. I would ask when you get the mic identify yourself by name and affiliation and ask a question. If we get 10 or 15 seconds in and i dont see a question coming well give somebody else a shot. Okay. Yes, sir. Thank you. Leon, thank you, secretary devos. My question is given the need for and support for a lifelong education, would this scholarships, would they be available for postsecond, Higher Education and graduate school especially given the need for workers to be retrained as Senior Citizens in some cases, to enter new students. Well, its a great question. This proposal is really focused on k12 education and for the states that actually wrap in prek to their k12 program. They could target that around preschool as well, but its really focused on the k12 years, but your point is a good one and we should really be looking at education as a life long pursuit. There are some its states that have implemented education savings accounts which of course, can be used to customize your education and if you dont use up all of the dollars in a year, you can roll it forward and arizona, for example, has an esa that if you still have a balance at the conclusion of your k12 years you can use it for Higher Education. States that participate in this may look at doing something similar. Thank you very much. Guest im a student from Teachers College columbia university. Two short questions. A, we find theres a gap between the Academic Skills that you get in the school and the skills that are required at work. So the knowledge gap, how would you close the knowledge gap. Im personally a Chinese Student studying in the states, many say that the trade war has affected the visa, like i just wondered whats the standing point of the education of education during even the trade conflicts . Whats your standing point. Thank you so much. Your first question about closing the knowledge gap. Many of the schools that ive had opportunity to visit are approaching their education and learning differently for students and acknowledging that some of these gaps exist and theyre taking a different approach. The more freedom we interject across the country, i believe the more responses and different approaches well have to first of all acknowledging that and then addressing it, allowing students to find that right fit. But we do have a real challenge today because i think weve become too focused on one approach at the expense of really preparing students in a rapidly changing world for what comes next. My name is ye hann. Theres a lot of talk about funding, but as a student we dont see a lot of problems immediately solved before us. Like the problems of graduate unemployment, henl health in schools or stuff like that. What do you think is the largest problem in k12 and universities that cant be solved with more funding . Well, i think per this proposal, we dont have enough freedom in k12 education today, freedom or the families and students that arent able to make the choices that many who are wealthy and connected are able to make. And so its a matter of real being fair to all students, not om fair, but allowing all students the vehicle and opportunity to find their right fit. We have we are as a country spending more than almost every country in the world on k12 education and yet, we still rank 24th, 25th and 40th in the measure reading around science and math. So doing the same thing and putting more money behind it, and expecting a different result, i dont think that i know thats not going to solve the issue or the problem. Yeah, hi. Edward hutchens from the heartland institute. As you know, the Department Im sorry, the department of labor has recently, is going to issue new rulings on apprenticeship allowing private nonvoths as well as businesses to set up the requirements, between the education, free market careers and exponential technology, as you know, groups like careerwise colorado are trying to connect kids in high schools with businesses to do the learn and earn. Would the freedom scholarships help facilitate this move to apprenticeships to allow the two third of americans who dont go to college to actually get good careers in jobs. Yes, yes. Good. Yes, they could indeed to facilitate apprenticeships and in fact, thats an important opportunity for states to look at. Ill quickly say on apprenticeships and skilling and reskilling and the Work Force Development and 6 million plus or 7 million plus available jobs more than people looking for them, theres no question that were doing a whole of government report. You need the departments. Early on in this administration we invited cabinet secretaries and john hickenlooper, the then governor of colorado, and somehow has been forced out of the race, and a swing state thats okay. Ironic. But i think the one that you mentioned in colorado is one of many examples that are popping up across the states because the market is necessary stating that and i did want to make sure that we amplify today the value we see in after the k12 or during the 912, those acquiring a skill set, not just pushing everybody in college, you know, who has other employment opportunities, but this is something that weve been doing in a bipartisan basis with the states. Even if we cant get it done here. Although i think that ivanka trump has led the way with the perkens grant and some other measures. What you can see, what the education is laying out through the education freedom scholarships is just the latest and one of the greatest pieces of the overall education freedom agenda. We have been working on that for quite a while and i think its one of the bright line distinctions between us and the other side. Okay. One last question. Caleb with the Freedom Center for academic freedom, thank you so much. As you can tell by the word freedom, i love the idea of freedom. But i have a question as you implement this. Have you considered or are there already measures in place that would protect, for example, religious schools or religious nonprofits, available to have access to these funds . Great question and in fact, yes, the draft language does include a specific protection against religious discrimination and as its been said, religious discrimination is not a good policy so making that assumption, we have also been very explicit to say its not an option in states elect to be a part of this program. Terrific. Madam secretary, counsellor, thank you so much for your time today. [applause] i want to ask the audience to remain seated for a moment while we transition to the next panel. Thank you so much. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] wrapping up those remark some white house advisor Kellyanne Conway and education secretary betsy devos, talking about education freedom scholarships which would work to expand private School Choice. This is hosted by the American Enterprise institute. A brief break as they prepare for a Panel Discussion on the same topic. We expect to get underway in just a moment. While we wait, comments from earlier in this discussion from education secretary betsy devos. Thank you all. Good morning, and thank you to aei for hosting this important for him today. Robert, thanks for your hospitality and for your principled conservative leadership, especially now in your new role. Its always a pleasure to be back here with so many friends speedy School Choice in the states and what education scholarships might mean there. I have three state policymakers here today. Kimberly yee is 36 treasure of arizona, and were glad to have you here. Shes steward 40 billion state budget and make sure the checks go to whom they need to go to. She has a a number of firsts ur her belt is worth mentioning. She is the first Asian American elected to statewide office in arizona. She is a First Chinese american republican woman to win a major statewide office in the United States. She was Senate Majority leader in arizona and not the first but notably followed Sandra Day Oconnor about four decades later so thats worth mentioning. Mentioning. She also as a said she chaired the Senate Education committee and help great the nations First Education savings account in 2011. And interestingly has a bit of a pattern i think that you work on the executive team of the former Arizona State treasurer, dean martin and now you hold that post and you were an analyst for the Arizona Senate committee on education which would later chair. Some grassroots work and then heading. Thanks a vineyard. John deberry is thanks for being here. John deberry is from the tennessee general assembly. He represents memphis and its been there a while. Put it this way he started 1995 and when i lived in tennessee, so has been quite a while since ive been in d. C. The assembly hes been a member of several committees including the Education Committee and the curriculum testing and innovation subcommittee. He also served at the democratic leader pro tem for. Mike turzai as a last leader, speak at the Pennsylvania House of representatives and represents the 28th district in allegheny county. He has been a member of the house since 2001 and was elected speaker in 2015 and he has also done groundbreaking work in pennsylvania under School Choice initiatives. He led efforts with pennsylvania Business Leaders to implement a 15 50 million opportunity scholarship tax credit which targets children in lowperforming schools. While he was House Majority leader he doubled the size of the education improvement tax credit, the other eitc, in pennsylvania from 50 to 100 million. Before we jump into questions, i will just let some of the differences in the School Choice landscape in the states. Tennessee has been fighting in recent years to get programs up, and they did just pass another one for memphis and nashville specifically. In pennsylvania there are two tax credit scholarships that i mentioned already. They are 50,000 students, plus participating in them. Arizona is sort of the heavy hitter with four different tax credit scholarship programs, tens of thousands of students, and like i said the first esa which is one of most mature. They also have a very rare program of universal eligibility for the tax credit scholarships in arizona. Saw a a wide variety of statesd context. Speaker turzai, if i could start with you reflecting on the conversations that we heard in the past hour, i wonder what your take is, given that the states of doing the heavy lifting on School Choice for about three decades, right . They have made all the progress we have seen, this is an opportunity with the education freedom scholarships for the federal government to come in. We heard discussion about some folks being a little wary of that. How does that play out down the line when there may be less School Choice friendly folks in the white house or the administration . My question to you is, as a state leader whos been doing this work, is this a good thing or a bad thing for School Choice in the states and why or why not . Its a decidedly good thing, and first and foremost the proposal, the education freedom scholarships that the secretary and her team put together is mirrored to some extent of work that is been done in pennsylvania, florida and arizona. So the laboratories of democracy poverty shown that it works. In pennsylvania with a robust education improvement tax credit scholarship. Its up to 135 million this past year, and a top of that we have 55 million opportunity scholarship. So total of about 190 million. Weve increased the limit for families to make use of them. 50,000 students were able to receive some scholarship. Shot of another 50,000 did that get them. Another one at 45 million was left off the table from businesses that want to get the tax credits. It will work, it will work in all 50 states and it will work with the partnership with the federal government pictures of the key. I thought the secretary made so many important points but heres the key. In what i believe and hope i have this number right, in a 4. 5 trillion budget in the federal level, 5 billion i know we throw around the term dillion, but 5 billion in tax credits, tax credits, people are still paying the Tax Liability company theyre just directing it to opportunities for kids to make the decision to go to a Different School that fits of them, that many more affluent folks have. Thats the fundamental issue. My wife and i, she is a pediatrician we have three boys, two one who graduate public eye skookum when you graduate from struggling Catholic School but thats where he wanted to go and it was a good fit. And her youngest was in 11th grade is in the Public School. We can afford it. Many of the folks do not have the opportunity and there are parents and grandparents and guardians all across the United States that want to have that fundamental opportunity to send their child that theyre responsible for to the best place for that child. The secretary and the team are taking the School Choice movement and saying we ought to make it national and work with the states, i think its a great opportunity. Youve been in the fight for School Choice programs in tennessee and yes some fresh start that show for it. I imagine. Tennessee has two programs but a long way to go to sort of catch up with either pennsylvania or arizonas progress. My question to you is, with the political realities on the ground in tennessee, how do you think the states might react and use education freedom scholarship opportunity for it to become law . Well, i think the ms. Noem is that the parents dont want it. They really do, and that its not going to benefit the children. It really will. Whats happening in the state of tennessee is whats happening all over the country, and those individuals who have a personal stake in the funds that we allocate to educate our children are not necessarily concerned many times about what happens to the children. We had in tennessee what i call the special in memphis and large urban area, and demographics speak for themselves what the schoolhouse, the jailhouse pipeline is wideopen and were putting less and less children are in Higher Education or in positioning them so they can make a living. What i think we have in the state offense is what we have cost the country. We have to do with the perception that the calling cry is the money and private schools and so on and so forth. Not necessarily taking to heart that its public money to take care of our children. And i think as the secretary said weve got to get the money, concentrate on the children not the system and thats what were doing. I was accused when were talking about this in this debate, it was said whats going to happen in the state of tennessee is they are going to cherry pick, they would get the best chilled in the school, the best children that school, which my response was education within itself is in many places is all kids dont go to law school. All kids dont go to medical school. All kids dont become architects or even teachers. Those individuals are prepared for those various professions and for those various disciplines, those are the ones that go there. What weve got to do is put more cherries on the tree and thats what we are not doing. Weve got to get more children ready to be picked, to go to school, to have those opportunities. I think thats where the battle lies in the state of tennessee. Weve got to create and enhance and fortify the perception that this is a matter of national defense, if you please, and most certainly the strengthening of our state. Treasury yee come in arizona you got a very different political reality on the ground, especially compared to tennessee and a much more robust system of School Choice. You four tax credit scholarship programs. I question is, if the efs were to become reality what you think arizona would do with this new tailwind . It seems to me you could build your program about by increasing the amounts that are offered to kids or you could build an out by increasing the breadth of programs with more participation, or you could build options might include come so maybe focus on concurrent enrollment or prek and so forth. If arizona has this tailwind what do you think they would do with it . Refers to say that the education financial scholarships have worked in our state and we have been a robust tool choice state. Were celebrating 25 25 years f Charter Schools in arizona and for this proposal it is not only good education policy, its good tax policy. For us to continue to enhance that in arizona with his opportunity we would be able to do more with what we already have to put forward as a foundation. One of the things the experiences i had in the state legislature before i became the state treasurer was always deciding what works for the money so were available and the opportunities. We wouldnt have as many boundaries with this because we would have that much more to use and be able to have more kids in those schools that want to be in. Right now there are some prohibitions for the types of kids that can have and what we call empowerment scholarship. One of those is if youre a preschooler yet to be a preschooler with a disability. If your kindergarten yet to be a kindergarten with a disability. Lets remove that and let all of those preschoolers be able to choose the school of their choice. This would allow us to enhance our existing programs in arizona. Im interested in the form of the tax credit scholarship, so theres tax credit scholarships and with more traditional voucher programs and then theres also education savings account. Ill just ask any of the three of you, esf sort of comes as a tax credit scholarship. It requires the state if they havent set up want to identify the 501 c 3 or the Scholarship Granting Organization. Do you think that format a privilege tax credit scholarship, maybe, i dont know if they deserve an advantage, but to the less likelihood the essays or vouchers would continue . Do you do that as a problem or an issue . I can speak for arizona. When the secretary earlier shared that the way to solve this is to hear the testimonials of the families who have been benefited from that only the essays but also other School Choice opportunities in arizona. That tells the story. What would this do . This would allow us to build that bridge to those in might not already have this opportunity. We could enhance programs and we could bring forward a new Marketing Tool quite frankly because if they had the experience with these wonderful opportunities of School Choice, lets share that story. Lets allow the other families that mightve heard a story or two that may have been incorrect about the opportunities these families had. Let them hear about the families who have benefited, who have succeeded and you are staying in the schools of choice. Speaker turzai, i wanted to give you the opportunity to answer the same question i asked earlier to treasury yee, such of a couple of tax credit scholarships. What do you think pennsylvania would be able to do with esf . Five years after the esf had passed, which are tax credit scholarships be built up in value . Would they be expanded . With the people more options . What would you take the push would be in pennsylvania . Without a doubt they would enhance our existing educational proven tax credit scholarships at a opportunity scholarship credits without a doubt. You could partner them off and be able to do two things. You would be able to expand the fold the pool of them a second though scholarships and the amounts they get. I actually believe you would continue to create waiting list because it would become more and more attractive. You never quite catch up because i think people want that choice. People, all backgrounds, all, rural, city, suburban want opportunities to do whats best for their child. And i think the other thing that you asked is, is it going to crowd out other mechanisms for School Choice. We have a proposal that we are putting out as a Pilot Program or a prototype for the city of harrisburg. Thats our capital city, about 6500 students in that particular School District. 7 of the the students are testing proficient in algebra. 9 of testing proficient in biology. 13 are testing proficient in english and thats unacceptable. The second trade was gracious enough to come to the capital city and we went and saw harrisburg elementary Catholic Elementary School k8, and those students were across the board minority students, low income students, many single parent families or the grandparents were doing much of, you know, the education. They were wearing uniforms. Their with great discipline with great love and. Great learning environment, and those we heard a particular single mom two boys in a three to seven great is that it was the single most important decision in her life and that without the scholarship, which was about maybe onethird of the not so sure to come up with the other about for that tuition because its not cheap, you know, to have even that school, she said it was the single most important decision and that she had her kids on the path whether going to be able to succeed in life. You could see it. You could see it tangibly. If im a policymaker, keep moving forward, whatever your strategy, whatever your mechanism is, keep moving forward because there are a lot of people who want that choice. Representative deberry come uninterested in states that are not as far along, dont have developed programs, some states of any School Choice programs and their politics dont make them very likely to bring them on. How much do you think if esf program came forward into law as were looking at, how much of a help would it be in states that currently offer no School Church proposal . Weve got to change the perception. The debate has gone forever. I been in office 25 years. We were talking about this forever. We go on and on and on and the conversation its convoluted. The public gets confused as to what we are really trying to do, thats whats happening all over this country. Im an old guy. My dad march with dr. King. I was somewhere back in the cut as a teenage boy. When my dad integrated the schools and crocker county and i can succeed as a present of the naacp, it was about School Choice. It wasnt that the school we were going to was insufficient. The teachers were wonderful. It was a great school but it was a segregated society. That was the school we were sent to. When we liked it or not because of all the various reasons thats what we were supposed to be. My dad said thats not right, were changing this. We integrated the school in 1968, a great experience with the kids at crocker county high school. This has gone on throughout my life. My children, my eldest daughter is an attorney. My youngest daughter is a therapist. Neither one of them would be who they are have not had the ability to take them out of schools which are insufficient to educating them and preparing them for life. I got two jobs and i sent him to school and pay the tuition because its my responsibility to educate my children. When parents again to realize these are their tax dollars, these are their children, these are their schools that they pay for, these opportunities that are funded by the money that they work hard and give so the government can properly use it. And when you have something called a Failing School and we fill the term around like its normal, thats not normal. As soon as people get enough of it and decide they want their children better, its going to change across the state. So this is an evolution of School Choice as far as my experience is concerned with all the way back to the 60s. Its still going on and until parents have the right to say whether children are going to go, so they can have opportunities that they need, then well keep talking about this hopefully will get the perception change the folks who understand this is not about unions. This is not about professions. This is about the children, and from the children we work back to who it takes to make it happen. I wanted to take a minute and zoom in on that, on the weeds. We talk about, well, with educational freedom scholarships, tax credit scholarships and we give scholarships to kids but theres a big institution in between and thats the Scholarship Granting Organizations. Part of the strategy behind this bill is that by allowing states to determine who the Scholarship Granting Organizations are and what they can do, that they have control over these programs, in a larger aspect, some guard rails, my question especially in pennsylvania and arizona, what guides your choices of Scholarship Granting Organizations . How does the state decide who should get them and why . Because they seem to play a pretty central role in these programs. In arizona we call the School Choice organizations and their 501 c~ threes. Because they are a 501 c 3 , once our grants, their role is to ensure theres accountability on the side of the financials and if you were to go to the esas, the state Treasurer Office is the manager while the state Department Education is a Program Manager of those accounts. Between the two state agencies we ensure that those dollars are being used for the very purposes so that the accountability is there so the taxpayers know they are being used for the purpose was intended. At the same time it allows for the program to continue to grow because they see that there is a real Strong Program there with rails to guard against fraud. One of the things i found early on in looking at our sgo is families find the right sto to go to and that is their choice, continue down locally even to the family. In arizona with a number of st owes any School Choice or decision about every single court of the state. If one resident wants to go to the northern part of arizona and go to that they can do that. It really doesnt matter because they all play very Important Role in making sure the funds are available. Like a backpack to go on the back of the student wherever they choose to go to school. These Scholarship Organizations, the key thing s that when they apply to make use of the tax credits and to give up the scholarship is that the money is, in fact, going to schools that are providing a scholarship to the students to be able to attend there. So the function of the Scholarship Organization is very defined, very defined. And the key thing is that youre looking over, that they are, in fact, sending the money to the school for that student to get that scholarship. Its actually easy to audit and easy, if we have department, the department of education that watches that. You have to be approved and then secondly you get watched and jeff to send in reports. But thats the key. And keep in mind, i just want to get this in context here. In the commonwealth of pennsylvania we spend over 30 billion of state and local tax dollars all approved by the state either on the statewide level or we give powers to School Districts to have taxes and raise money for Public Schools. Over 30 billion for Public Education k12. Were in the top let me just give you these. We are in the third and adjusted average teacher salary for Public Schools, third and adjusted average starting salary for Public Schools out of 50 states. Third and adjusted average teacher salary commuting household income. Third and adjusted per student Public School spending in pennsylvania. The amount of scholarships we have is 190 million in tax credits. We are less than 1 1 of what were spin of Public Education at over 30 billion. If are going to talk about accountability, id like to take maybe even a close look at the 30 billion we are spending on Public Education k12 and this 190 million where line for tax credits. These people that are trying to get the tax credit and give up the scholarships to people with a mission. Whats the nation . Allow families low and middle income families to be able to go to choices in education. A lot of those folks any day. They are doing the right thing. Im curious about the relationship between state lawmakers and policymakers, and the representatives that you sent to capitol hill, and how you might be able to put pressure on them or give them the voice, the concerns of the folks you represent, particularly on this issue. I would also just be curious generally about the Political Climate in your state versus the Political Climate theyre going to and what all those forces being for the likelihood of the education freedom scholarships getting traction on capitol hil hill. I think one of the aspects of this proposal is that it respects federalism and it allows for the states to design the program as they wish. And if you look back in arizona in 1997 when we created Charter Schools and open enrollments, and the school tax credit, the tax credit individual as well as corporate, we gave a little piece of both parties frankly and it allowed us to reach across the aisle, though the proposal is being advanced by the republicans, our democratic friends alongside the proposal because we allowed for the Public Schools to use a little bit of this as well to advance their tax credits for Public Schools come for instance, they could use it for fees or band for uniforms or extracurricular related advancements. This could be designed in a way where it works for both parties and in a way where our Public School advocates and our School Choice advocates come together around the table to decide what works best for that state. I would just suggest, i know this is a fairly im not in washington, d. C. So i dont know the lay of the land as those folks who are here. But i would begin with the Senate Majority leader and i would ask senator mcconnell a diligent public elected official, i would make this a priority. I would say lets get this through the senate with alacrity. Why . Because once it passes the chamber, as a speaker of a house i have experience with this, and former majority leader here once it passes the chamber it changes because it has a level of reality. A body in the United States Congress Actually passed it. And it puts pressure on the other body. And that pressure needs to come on Speaker Pelosi because she is a lot of talk and shes not a lot of delivery. Id better get, i dont know this but i bet her kids went to private school. Im sure her entire circle of friends kids went to private schools. So she once to offer the opportunity for a lot of other parents and grandparents and guardians throughout the United States of america, or issue just about protecting the establishment and special interest . Out that the latter lets make sure make the choice but that has to begin with the Senate Passing the bill. I dont want to pretend to get into the middle of the toxic, because all it does is increase the toxicity in distant tennessee. We dont have the infrastructure that either of these states have since were just Getting Started and there are a lot of uncharted territory that we have to go through in implementing our policies of School Choice. But i think, we make more stuff complicated than actually is because when we Start Talking about accountability and measurable, measure those results, everybody in the film, this is people, academia or whatever we might be, thats the way we operate, in the american system. We are accountable for the funds we receive, the funds are allocated, the funds they go to education. Well over 1 billion in my county, and it, if we start becoming accountable and we look at results that were measurable and that the money was doing what it was supposed to do here i think that until, here again, as the secretary said, until we move the system, into we move all the bullies, to remove the people with self interest, the folks are locked in their saddles and their deeply rooted in her own opinion rather than what is best, we get nowhere. At some point in time if we are going to have a generation thats going to be if are going to get away from being number 40 in the world and the laughing stock of the world when we have all of these advantages at all of these blessings and we are not passing it on to offspring, if thats going to happen then we have to be adults. Maturity is doing whats best even if its not what i want. Folks who get elected to office are going to have to stop acting like a bunch of children, sit at the table and act like adults and solve this problem. [applause] i believe hope springs eternal. Iv question back on the tax credit scholarship. I stated School Choice programs quite a bit. Theres a lot of things to like about tax credit scholarships. One of the things general across the programs to not like his a fairly lowly funded. Vouchers, certainly esas are more highly funded. I just wonder what to make of this especially from pennsylvania and arizona to representative deberry who doesnt have tax scholarship yet. What are some of the difficulties with getting these scholarship amounts of high enough to help especially low folks . Speaker turzai and you mention the woman is getting a scholarship for about a third of her tuition. If you are a low income family in harrisburg, up with for a 5000 a year is tough. Its a very good point but you have to get the foot in the door and it is saving lives because theres 50,000 students in pennsylvania who wouldnt otherwise have this choice. Would we like to see it expanded to more individuals . Yes. Heres what we did. We had a bill, passed both the house and senate, bipartisan support in the house, was just republican citizen, went to the governors desk. Wall street journal editorial was in favor of the come as the governor to sign it and he vetoed it. What it wouldve done it wouldve increased our educational tax credit scholarship by 100 million. It would would be like the booster, to take it from up to 210 million. We were at 110 million. We subsequently caught up to 135 million. That you take it up to 210 million. We are borrowing from florida. We didnt come up with the idea. It wouldve been a 10 increase if the there were enough subscriptions. Theres always enough subscriptions, and for students that want these scholarships. And then that would increase every year by 10 . It was a multiplier, right . That was one of the reasons the governor vetoed it. We continued before. Where taking a different approach with this harrisburg prototype. Were doing a more direct scholarship. Its going to be 50 of basic Education Funding split in part by the local School District and by the state. In harrisburg instance it will not about 4140100. Keep in mind the local School District we are not changing what you call their average daily membership count. Will be increasing at because well throw in the number of student already in private schools into that number era when we allocate state tax dollars. So on a perpupil basis, say 25 of of the students decide to choose these scholarships. They would be educating for a higher dollar amount, 75 of the kids which means on a perpupil basis that amount goes up. Right now harrisburg is spending 22,000 and when i say harrisburg, its both state and local tax dollars, 22,000 per student i gave you the results. Thats well above the National Average and an addition 60 of that that amount is coming from state tax dollars while 40 is coming from local tax dollars that we have empowered them to do. I do think theres a variety of approaches to take. I dont think you sit on any one approach to School Choice. The treasurer talked about 25 use of Charter Schools and arizona Charter Schools are another approach. But if you are saving lives, why wouldnt you continue to pursue it . Treasury yee, an interest in your comment on the difficulty of getting the scholarship amounts. Well, the 90 of the basic state aid is what we use for esas which are empowerment scholarship so its saving the taxpayers funds that would otherwise go to full 100 Public School student. Thats one aspect. Secondly, if you take a look at what parents are receiving, this allows them to truly take a look at what the state is giving them and choosing no matter where you live whatever zip code in the den, cool of their choice. The school that best fits their childs needs. That is is the consequent membr will talk about freedom, and he was to say that for any nonprofit, as we talk about School Tuition organizations, 501 c 3 . Who in america has a cap on how much you should be able to give to your favorite nonprofit . We should be able to look at expanding that if we only have that in our state, and be able to have taxpayers allocate more to that School Tuition organization so that more kids can benefit from this great program. One of the things i try to do when it worked to the ledges in the process in advocating for this is really talk about how these stories really do sell the initiative. We have had 25 years of stories to tell in arizona, and truly some of the stories bring you to tears because of how families have escaped from a system that is just pushed their child back. Sometimes grade levels back. And now they have the freedom to choose a school of their choice. For instance, we have a number of communities where if the school, their zip code is a Failing School, they have to be trapped in that school for all of all of the issues. Suddenly without empowerment scholarships and with School Choice options in arizona, thy are able to go to another school that works best for them, where they can succeed. Those are the stories that will sell the summation of not in the states but also on that hill. I think that really is something that arizona is committed to do to be able to share the decades of experience that weve had on School Choice. So different School Choice, private School Choice options often a different targeting. Some of the programs, arizona has a tax credit scholarship thats universal. That is rare. Most of them are targeting either to low income students, targeted to students with disabilities. Some target students that are bullied. Some target to lowperforming schools or districts in the state. As state the leaders dealing wh these issues, how do you think about the tradeoffs in those different eligibility rules . And four state that is considering to take a first foray into these things when would you suggest is the sweet spot in terms of Program Eligibility . One of the myths is that if we open up the capture open up the number of students and remove the prohibitions we have, that all of the kids from the Public Schools are going to run into the private school. Thats not the case. Weve had esas in arizona on a book since 2011 and you can see it has been movement where parents are able to walk to the schools of the choice with their children, but its not this exodus from the Public School system. That really does speak to the fact its about freedom. You can choose to use it or you can choose not to use it. But allowing states to have that ability to design the program of the choices back to the respect that the states should have been designing a program that fits best for this new program. For arizona we have a longstanding history with School Choice. We feel this would enhance those programs and allow us to have more students benefit from School Choice. If the Public Schools look at poor children and gave them the opportunities that they absolutely have to have if they are going to escape poverty, then we wouldnt be constantly using those children as our imaginary target for every program that we come up with. We were going to poor children with this. Were going to help poor children with this. Weve got to get off this bandwagon and simply say weve got to do whats best for all students regardless of who they are. The reason we start with poor children in tennessee, children whose families qualify for temporary federal assistance, is because those children have been woefully neglected. Those children are the ones who fill up the prisons. They are the ones who fill up the gangs. They are the ones of not been given the attention that they need remediated so they can learn to read better. I have given kids one dollar for every report card cycle since first grade, watch them go through 12 years of school, have their diploma in hand with honors and they cant make a 14 or 15 on the act. Then we want to say the childs fault when that child us that in our system under our tutelage under our care for 12 years and we have failed to get them ready. So number one went to stop using the poor children so that we can appease a conscious or so we can ease a program for whatever, and simply do whats right and say we in america are failing our children. We are not competing with the rest of the world. We have a global economy. A child anywhere in the world can get on the airplane and be an america within a matter of hours and sit right to set a child whos been here all of their lives applying for the same exact job with better skills. And until we start looking at this as a matter of the preservation of our republic, of our national defense, and taking care of our citizens, we are going to just keep spinning our wheels and thats where we are. Speaker turzai, i want to k about tennessees recent experience. Because you have a very sort of odd set of targets in this latest bill, and thats memphis and nashville. I just little curious how that unfolded and why . It unfolded because there are those who absolutely believe that because this is public money, even though we have scholarships, tennessee promised it takes public money and a child can take that money to any school, private or public that they wish, to get a good education, and this has worked wonderfully throughout the state of tennessee. Educating so many young people. We want to do the same thing as far as high school is concern or elementary is concerned. And there are those who say this is absolutely not right. Its against the public interest. As a matter fact theres a bill filed already to repeal and to o what we did last year. Its that attitude and perception that this is ours to control. In my opinion, you have many, many wonderful teachers, many wonderful schools, people are giving their absolute best, taking money out of their pocket. When you have a systemic problem like we have where there are organizations that their very existence depends upon controlling those funds, theyre going to fight for dear life to control them and thats whats happening in tennessee. And i bet you thats whats happening all over the country. Just interested to follow one more. Seems at first it was tennessee wide program and that it was scaled down to these counties, memphis and nashville metro essentially and theres an implicit logic in the boat that its okay for these two urban centers as long as we pulled the rest of the state of the eligibility map. And im trying to understand where that logic makes the bill easier to pass . It makes it easier to pass if you folks who say not in my backyard, and not in my school system. And those that have the are some wonderful School Systems in tennessee, all over the statef tennessee, but all of us put our money in the pot all over the state of tennessee to take care of the states fail interested at all of the state from memphis to mountain city. And until we in tennessee, here again and all over the country, it can we start looking at this holistically, if one child fails, we all fail. And until that happens then were going to continue to say not in my backyard. It gets when of the down until it major areas. Here again, the insulting part of that is, its always with certain demographics, you know, people, black people, hispanic people, folks who have various issues in life, didnt just drop down from ours. Theyve been here all along. Weve got to continue to look at our own deficiencies as legislators and those who govern to realize that the problems that exist were not created by the people. They were created by us. Public education, we created it. Weve got to recreate it, and thats where our mind has got to be. I want to give you a chance on the targeting question offers want to tell the audience that in just a a couple of minutes e will take questions, so prepare for those. As far as targeting eligibility, how has that been a penciling of what might you advise other states . Its a great question for Public Policymakers, but i myself think it should be as expansive and as broad as it can be. Ideally. Our educational proven tax credit scholarship, weve focused on increasing that because its available across the state in rural, suburban and urban areas, all areas. And guess what . Theres a desire for a want in communities all across the state. Ive seen it in Orthodox Jewish schools in the city of philadelphia and in pittsburgh but i seen it in more rural catholic and christian schools, and i seen it in suburban schools that are just private nondenominational schools. There are administrators and educators in each of those types of schools that make use of an benefit for the families and the kids, educational permanent tax credit scholarships. The one restraint we have that we have twice to increase his income limits. Because i think that might take advantage of these are also middle income families and low income families, too. To work two two working part sometimes would love to send their child to a local catholic, christian, jewish, nondenominational school. He would like to do that but at 12,000, which is not, you know, thats a typically priced high school, many others go much higher, the eitc is what they need to get over the goal line. And it should be available to many people as possible. If i could i would increase the income limits even higher. I cant do it singularly. I have two legislative bodies and governor on board but we have increased our limits. I do think what were doing a more robust direct scholarship in harrisburg is modeled similarly on what is happening in cleveland and in milwaukee. And i think with a good representative and his folks are doing that in tennessee with respect to national and memphis nashville and memphis. Im going to repeat this, you need to get a foot in the door and you need to do in when you can. I would emphasize this point that the treasurer eight. Look, pennsylvania is a state that spent a considerable amount of tax dollars on Public Education. For a lot of students they get a great education in the Public Schools. If thats what fits those particular students thats great, but we know from fact, from stories come from encountering families, its not one size fits all and that choice should be available, thats what the United States secretary of education and 13 were proposing. Lets go from whats happened in the state and take it across the United States. Id like to open to questions from the audience, if we can. Again with two rules threat aei. When you have a question, just give us your name and affiliation, and then ask the question. Rj, right here. Good morning. My name is mary lou and and i a science teacher, 33 years in the Public School system in new york. I dont hear the voice of the teacher in any of these discussions. And i feel that they are large stakeholder. How can i return to my colleagues and assure them that this educational freedom scholarship will not harm education as we know it, will not cost them their jobs, will not somehow adversely impacted them . If we could get teachers on the side of the scholarships, i think they could influence their leaders in this direction. Go ahead. First of all, im the daughter of a Public School teacher who taught for 38 years in one of the poorest School District in the state of arizona, so i bring a Great Respect and admiration to our Public School system when we talk about these types of School Debates in school reform. I have been one to always bring those around the table, whether they agree with each other or not. Because the voices of very important, the end result of the site of what we will pursue. It makes a case that we will have more opportunities because the funding is coming alongside from the federal government and its interesting because having been in Public Policy private elected office for 23 years, i have never seen a federal department of education, alongside to partner with the statements were going to take a hands off approach on this initiative, and give the states the ability to design education freedom scholarships how it works for your state. And its going to look different from every state in the country. Thats great. What a wonderful opportunity, and for the Public School advocates in my state, i would say to them that this allows us to counter the debate that our general funds will have money scooped away from the Public School system. That will not be the case if we have a supplemental amount of funding coming from the federal government for the first time that i can remember on a School Choice designed program. This is an exciting opportunity we should be embracing, and i would say this is a one of opportunity to bring the education advocate from the Public School system to the table. Because theres nothing that says they cant be a part of this design. In arizona as i shared earlier, we provided a tax credit for Public Schools at the same time we advanced our School Tuition organizations and a lot of tax credits for individuals and corporations to move forward funding for individuals to go to a private school. Everybody got a little bit of something. Representative deberry, i wanted to get you in quickly. Just this morning i hope the secretary is at my new mentioning it, that we had a conversation about this very thing, and that is leading the teachers know they are part of this. There are stakeholders in this and that it cant be done without them. When we were discussing this in tennessee we had kind of a saying that a sort of like when you say if mom is not happy, nobody is not happy. If the teacher cannot have, nobody is happy i all of us got to take that to heart and make sure the teachers know that if this is going to succeed or anything were doing in education is going to succeed, the teachers arent integral part of it. I think this has to get made. Look, my dad was a longtime Public School teacher my brother is a Public School teacher. But it is true this discussions about the child. That is where the discussion is, and its about the parents or grandparents in the guardian look, in philadelphia that are 200,000 students, about 70,000 are in Charter Schools. About 30,000 want to be in Charter Schools. They have a lottery. My calling said one of the most frequently asked questions she gets from our constituents in philadelphia is hey, can you help me like getting to one of these Charter Schools . I didnt great that way list of 30,000 families. 70,000 families that already are in. I didnt create that. People are making a a decision, family by family, that they want the opportunity and they see something, maybe its the uniform, maybe its discipline. Its not always additional laboratories by the way pick sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. People want to give their kids a break that they might not have in their lives. Thats whats driving this. This does not mean that the Public School system is going to disappear. I actually think many Public Schools would even get better based on the competition. And i think teachers rise to the level of competition because the teachers i i know, thats whato do. The good teachers, thats what they do. That was a great question. Im Olivia Sullivan and a freshman at nyu as well as a Research Associate at the Federalist Society and i really appreciate the panel and all of your conversation about upon and freedom within education but i do want to push back on sort of an assumption. I served that all parents nesser have their childrens best interest at heart, and how you ensure that parents who dont necessarily know their childrens best interest for children who dont have parents who are in the foster system perhaps, how do you make sure no children get left behind at all children are being advocated for . They key is you want to save ever like you can possibly save. Thats first and foremost. You have to keep that in mind. Youre right, that every child has that person is responsible for the life but many do. Because built into your statement is an assumption that because somebody might be of lower economic value, but they dont have the same parent concern for the child a people of higher economic value do. I think that is innately discriminatory. In addition, i will tell you this, ive been with a lot of those parent were waiting in line or grandparents or aunts and uncles or guardians who want to get the get into a charter school. Ive been there on that lottery Data Collected tell you, those people care very deeply. Just recently on the eitc front, i was at the catholic fare for their school trying to raise some money. A grandma came up to me and told me, my daughter is a drug addict. Im taking charge of this young boy. Im 70 and im so worried about whats going to happen to him. Im hoping this eitc scholarship is about because i know hes going to get an opportunity that he would not have otherwise had. Is the fact that the breakdown of the family and there are a lot of children who have no one or at least dont have the type of family many of us have. These are the children that are in many places suffering and also the children that in many places the state has them as ward then taking care of them and feeding them and educating them and everything else. We have to put that on the table. When we have this discussion weve got to talk about the breakdown of the family, that many children dont have parents who have their interests at heart and as we broker the use various programs and policies that have got to be on the table it must be part of the discussion and must be solved. We are out of time. We have to end there. I want to thank you for talking to us today and thank you for coming. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] i come from a family of teachers and they went to school to become an educator, they werent thinking part of their job was going to have to be security officer. Like i stated in my testimony once before, we had an armed officer in my school and it came to that moment of fight or flight, he went away. The idea that teachers having guns would solve this issue is the same idea as giving another person a gun to solve gun violence. If you know what i am saying. Things like two guns will protect the majority of people from one bad guy, Something Like we are trying to turn every individual or every teacher into an armed vigilante and that is something no teacher should have to be and i cannot imagine if teachers were armed the incidents that take place, that would be them killing a student who didnt have to be the perpetrator of the violence and there would be more violence if teachers were armed. You can watch this entire hearing on gun violence on School Safety from the Senate Homeland security subcommittee hearing tonight at 9 00 eastern on cspan and a reminder you can watch all the programs online, cspan. Org and listen to the free cspan radio apps. The campaign 2020 bus team is traveling across the country visiting key battleground states in the 2020 president ial race asking voters what issues they want president ial candidates to address during the campaign. Congress and washington should do more to address the Climate Crisis because defense spending or any other partisan divide will not matter if we dont have a planet to live on. Really important issue washington needs to address is lgbt q equality on the federal level, protecting lgbt q individuals from discrimination because right now they are not protected under the constitution when it comes to i want to get a job and im a bisexual woman. They could fire me just for being gay. That is an issue that needs to come to the forefront. The system, the development of new technologies and having some kind of public input on this. There are technologies coming out about things like human gene editing which to some people is scary or the development of our go rhythms on the internet and how they carry the information we see, Technological Developments where there is not a Clear Scientific consensus on what we ought to do. As a political system there is a certain obligation to have a conversation about these big issues and the side collectively what we should be doing. We have a lot of issues at the federal level, but one that we show a lot is my constituents, and gun safety and it is a big issue. People have stronger background checks and it is very important. No one interested in taking away your guns. We want to make sure they dont get in the hands of the wrong people and we need stronger restrictions on automatic weapons. They have one purpose and that is to kill. Voices from the campaign trail, part of the battleground states to your. Up next to look at proposed legislation to try to protect the nations Wireless Infrastructure from foreign interference with the House Energy Panel hears testimony from technology and voting individuals, mike doyle of pennsylvania. [inaudible conversations]