Transcripts For CSPAN2 Charles Dorn For The Common Good 20180115

Good afternoon. There are lots of seats in the front and im told one of the seats as tickets underneath it so you need to sit in the front to get the tickets. [laughter] [inaudible conversations] for those that are faculty, give everybody a couple more minutes to just grab a seat. Im the executive dean for administration and finance at the school of engineering and Applied Sciences. In my six years on the institutes of Higher Education is my pleasure to welcome you to this afternoons session and its my honor to introduce the presenter and speaker. Already i started off bad. Associate dean for Academic Affairs and professor ofca education. After receiving his bachelor of arts, he spent the first ten years of his career as a High School Social studies teacher in maryland, california and casablanca morocco. His phd from the university of california berkeley in 2012 and 2013 he received a u. S. State Department Fulbright award to the university of cape town south africa and shes published in the american journal of education diplomatic history, Teachers College record and history of education quarterly is the authoand is the author on education, democracy and the secondnd world war. The most recent book, the common good a new history of Higher Education in america was published this year by Cornell University press and his next book which will be published in the spring is coauthored with university of rochester philosopher and is entitled Patriotic Education in a global age. Please join me in welcoming. Nk[applause] thank you for being here today is my pleasure tit is my pleasun opportunity to address you this afternoon. Earlier this morning i was told the only thingin standing betwen you and the holiday cookies and cocoa is me, 3 00 in the foyer to be precise. So not a good place for the speaker to be so that might be worthwhile to dispense with the pleasantries and get down to business so there isnt a rush out the door. I will do that just by jumping in and beginning to discuss with you today what we all think we know about american Higher Education in the 21st century which is that it is in crisis. There is as you know a financial crisis that is comprised of ever escalating tuition cost and a panic overt. Student at. Theres a crisis of intellectual andom academic freedom. Theres a crisis involving the curriculum itself. It includes issues such as the decline of the humanities and the dominance of Applied Science and Mathematics Technology and engineering. Its being taught and certainly the political orientation of thm Academic Program more broadly. Theres a crisis attributed to the disruption and the possibility that Information Technology has progressed to the point of college has existed for hundreds of years is that an unprecedented moment of profound transformation. Theres a fair amount of reporting and it seems at least in some sectors less concerned. That is the proportional decline of th the enrollmentss in colls and universities with the National Center for Education Statistics predicting that men will comprise trust 40 of Higher Education enrollees by the ear 2020 which may already be the case on some of the campuses. All of this has led some observers to predict the college as we know it and have known it for centuries is coming to an end. Collectively these issues might comprise some kind of crisis but concerning the end of college, those have at their core a fundamental assumption which is these challenges are truly unprecedented, that weve never anything like them before and we simply dont know how to respond. It is my claim today such arguments are truly flawed, so i would like to share an alternative interpretation and historical interpretation of the socalled contemporary crisis in american Higher Education today and how we might think ofnk the issues that the colleges and universities confront not as signs of decline but as historically predictive indicators of growth and transformation. I published a new history of h Higher Education entitled for the common good and i would like to use the research and findings in a the book as a starting poit to take you on a journey back through time through a country called the United States of america. Having just recovered from a severenr recession with the significant and political unrest its armed forces are mired in urban combat zones as a result of the war that was quickly one but never actually ended. Years of dramatic increases have triggered the backlash technological innovation is having a profound influence on the labor market and is disrupting business in important ways. Corporations and commercialism have come to dominate society and as you can imagine, all of this is having an impact on colleges and universities in america. Becoming a bastion of privilege in the delete declining ratings and institutions to take the radical step of imposing the cap on the womens enrollment. It is eating widely reported on demand press leading business figures have voice concerned that students are not learning a whole lot or at the very least what they are learning is irrelevant to the job market especially in such rapidly changing and unsettled times. Whether the University Diploma is still worth the cost and in fact. It lands on the cover of one of the most highly subscribed magazines. It is penned by the former president of the United States. What is the magazinefor it is the saturday evening post. This College Access, effectiveness, relevance, and especially affordability. The obvious question for us today is what can we learn from the ways that americans have responded historically. The answer is in the past when americans became disillusioned with the college as a failed to them which they are barred due to race or gender, religion or they establish an entirely new kinds of institutions beginning with small allmale mostly denominational colleges the college eventually expanded to include Agricultural Colleges, Teacher Education schools, historically black colleges and universities, when in colleges, research universities, military academies and a host of others. Theres institutional types and kinds that have developed over the centuries. All of these institutions grew out of shortcomings that were proof real and perceived in the kind of colleges and universities that came before them and it is important to note central to that appraisal are thetu opportunities that these institutions provided for students personal success. Students have enrolled in colleges for the private, often preprofessional advantages that Higher Education provided. So it was hardly surprising when i conducted the research for my book and i conducted a treasure trove of documents from the early 19th century to early president ial reports that reflectt concerns over Higher Education capacity to foster students personal advancement. What was a bit surprising to learn is that private advantage was mobbed the dominant theme emanating from those archives. Spanning all institutional types and chronological errors it is this fundamental attributes that we need to understand if we want to appreciate what Higher Education in america is today as well as the challenges that it currently confronts so biskupic to the Early National period the opening of the century. The year is 1802, and in a northern non continuous part of the commonwealth of massachusetts called the districtct of maine, people from miles around come to the town of brunswick to witness a very rare occurrence in america, the official opening of the college. It is named in honor of the donors father that we have in the history of giving this into the highlight is the inauguration of the colleges first president ial riverbend and what he has to say on this bright september morning is not specific in fact scholars have interpreted the inaugural address as emblematic of Higher Education at this moment in history. And in referring to the colleges Central Mission he says the inhabitants of the district may have their own sons to fillmo the liberal professios among them and particularly to instruct them in the principles and practice of the religion is topless the object of this institution. So what does he mean by that . The colleges mission is to prepare its male students at the ministry for law, for medicine, teaching and statesmanship for public service. In the present day we would most likely characterize it as preprofessional. But then he says this. It ought to always be remembered that literary institutions are founded and endowed for the common good and not for the private advantage of those that resort to them education, those needed by the public and addition to acquire an education are under peculiar obligations to exert their talents for the public good. 215 years ago he articulated what we understand to be the crux of the challenge that it grapples with today to provide an educatio education that direy relates to the students features including future occupations advancing the common good. You can call the attention thata paradox, contradiction. They used the adjective peculiar to describe it but that is the education in america so what did that look like in practice when they tried to do with . Established during the period with a National Commitment to advance the common good in the et no one a year befor year befe delivered his inaugural address, the governor ofli South Carolina proposed the presentday university of South Carolina in order to foster the good order and the harmony of the whole community. It maintains the purpose of Georgetown University was to promote the grand interest of society. So how do they plan to educate students to advance the common good . s by fostering mental discipline, virtue and integrity. And how do they expect to combat . It was the ancient greeks and romans, the pedagogy was primarily the kind of model and memorization as a way to exercise it or make it stronger. Student life and behavior was highly regulated. All three colleges have lists of rules governing student life where they could be in doubt what kinds, what they could and couldnt wear, the lists are remarkably extensive. The results were mixed at best and i have to say its a bit of a digression but theres never been a golden age in the highers education when austin showed up for class on time, took the studies seriously and did the reading that has never existed. And in fact one could study the history of Higher Education through the tension between the students and faculty. Nevertheless returning to my central claim i would like to note for as many similarities as there were across these institutions and to find the comment that there were regionaa differences. The crucialal example is the approach the outbreak of the civil war South Carolina college adopts in its curriculum a defense of states rights qualifications, slavery and eventually secession, which is certainly never the case and of course many of you have probably been reading about georgetowns investigation into the sale of enslaved people held on marylands Eastern Shore in order to support the college financiallyro which differs from South Carolina and actually had to leave to people on campus and thats contrasted significantly with the college which in 1886 graduate of john brown and the third africanamerican in the United States to receive a college degree. So very important regional differences. But also significant similarities such as overtime and certainly by the 1840s these early cultures are becoming increasingly exclusive. Admissions requirements continue to include proficiency in latin and greek and so continue to frequentlynt benefit privileged applicants who have received private tutoring in the classics, tuition is on the rise so theres increasing concerns in the United States over College Access and affordabili affordability. Simultaneously, theresmu a growing movement questioning the efficacy and effectiveness and relevance of thess classical education especially in the rapidly changing society along with a growing skepticism of the sort of mind and muffled philosophy. The skepticism in particular is part of the movement that changes the political economy including the rise of populism and expanding industrial commercial sectors. Inadvertently, and to the point, credit call into question the capacity to continue to contribute to thehe common good. One result is that a more accessible and affordable Higher Education with a more practical orientation gains a foothold in the United States along with a course of study that can demonstrate some Practical Applications and that new model of Higher Education becomes institutionalized here in america through thetu establishment of colleges and universities devoted to the study of agriculture, mechanics, mining and the military that will either be abbreviated as texas amm as well as Teacher Education which is an element of practical o reform that is often sort of left out of the conversation historically. A way to understand the development is asking for the colleges, berlin, georgetown, South Carolina they begin to change they dont simply give in to the reformers demand and replace the traditional programs with a new educational model. Instead, they slowly adopt the elements of practicality into the program over time. For the reformers however, the process is too slow so the institutional types arrived in america and become a part of american higher. Education. In the book for two examples i provide for the shift towards practicality as th the college f the state of michigan so presentday Michigan University and San Jose State University but of course there are many more and you can probably name some that are established in the antebellum period in the United States with the sort of practical orientations in the u. S. Naval academy would be another one. Im not going to go into a detailed history but let me say this, michigans Agricultural College is the first four year college ifouryearcollege in amt was scientific agriculture in america and becomes the prototype for the nations land grant institutions so when the u. S. Representatives seek the model on which the base of the land grant acts keep books to michigan. This is an institution that is intentionally more accessible to students and eliminates latinna and greek in this form or attentive to theo socioeconomic class than any of the institutions that come before it and it encourages the sons of farmers to apply for instance and provides employment on the colleges experimental forms so that students can pay and work their way through college and it poses a challenge to the traditional Academic Program by offering a practical curriculum things like animal and vegetable physiology, etymology and horticulture. The california state on the other hand is designed to prepare students to become classroom teachers. The named Normal School comes from the french Training Institution into these institutions offer a combination of secondary coursework including practice teaching comprised of grammar schoolage students like michigans Agricultural College they eliminatete in our in this case providing free tuition to students who commit to teaching in a state for a prescribed number of years. Most importantly and unlike michigan in its early years they are open to women providing the first instance of Higher Education being made available on the larg a large scale in th. Now one could imagine that this mix of institutional types, called collegial institutions and could have served the needs for quite some time, but the civil war will provide a turning point in many areas of American Life into th and the political d social changes that result leads to the rise of the commercial ethos in the United States with the historian many years ago labeled in america. Thee effects it will have on Higher Education are quite complex and some of these who yu are already familiar withgh all the people tend to associate them with the post world war ii era. He gives you an example from the economist is sociologist who published a book during this period Higher Learning in america with the conduct of universities by b businessmen to give you an idea of the pieces in the book. You might be interested to know the original subtitle of the book was a study in total depravity. The publisher doesnt go for it. And in language one imagine being explained as corporate influence on Higher Education today, they wrote abou that by e beginning of the 20th century, the values have become predominant on the college and University Campuses in both the business proficiency had Higher Learning. He wrote that means a more or less version of interest and support from science and scholarship to the competitive acquisition of wealth. It seems to substitute the pursuit of expenditure in place of the pursuit of knowledge is the focus of interest in the objective and in the modern intellectual life, and indeed much of the work is about the influence of commercialism on colleges and universities in america. He wrote the book while living in Palo Alto California and serving as an associate at stanford. A university that at the time was the epitome of the commercial ethos in Higher Education and maybe some would argue continues to be today. In 1885 for instance, as they are pictured here after whom the university is named provided a 30 milliondollar founding and element, the largest in the history of Higher Education up to that moment in time into the gift was only made possible by the commercial empire that Leland Stanford have built in california and indeed the claim the university existed to qualify for the students personal success. However they also claimed that they established the institutioe to promote the public welfare. So indeed when they opened it in 91, it was if you can believe it tuition free. They insisted that all qualified students regardless of their socioeconomicnt background were welcomed to apply which is in fact what allows the orphaned and socio economically disadvantaged young man by the name of Herbert Hoover to receive a college degree. Now as you are aware it was a truly wrenching event in history and disrupted society that ushered in the commercial ethos to be sure its most celebrated consequence was the liberation of millions of people from enslavement and soon here again and in response to the political and economic change we witnessed the establishment of Higher Education in reaction to what existed previously. For most colleges c and universities prior to the civil war, they gathered in washington, d. C. In 1866 to establish a university dedicated to the common good through the Higher Education of black americans supported by and named for the Bureau Commissioner Howard University was intended in particular to served recently emancipated people. By the time the university opened however it and come this almost every element in america at the time and it offered a traditional collegial Program Howard himself was a boat in College Graduate and a strong advocate of that model. Also offered a practical course of study. Like michigan and have a program in agricultural science and experimental form and like california and have a Normal School in short the university was meant to offer africanamericanss precisely tht for which most colleges and universitiesiv have excluded thm up to that moment in time. Similarly they witnessed the rise of thef Womens College of institutions that offer a four year College Education to the equivalent of the offered to men. Ol Smith College provides an example establishedhe in 1871 in northampton massachusetts by the college that was unlike Normal Schools, not designed to prepare women to teach instead of us to provide the same kind of Higher Education that male students received nearby amherst college. It was the rigorous Academic Program resulting in a bachelors degree. Yet again this has been the reaction to what came before and yet again a Higher Education institution that declared its dedication to advancing the common good. As tobias smith wrote, it is my opinion that i don the higher d more thorough education of women and what are called the wrongs will be redressed, the wages adjusted and weight of influence and reforming the evilsof of society will be greatly increased and their power for good will be in comfortably enlarged. The space which during the first half of the 20th century they will survive two world wars and a catastrophic economic depressiones. Talk about institutional resilience. And in the years following the end of the second world war, they become increasingly selective in their admissions policies. They become more expensive and one is partly as a result of the g. I. Bill and because americans are coming to view a college gie degree as a ticket for the American Dream and three because high your education institutions come to be viewed as engines of Economic Growth and that is simply not enough of them. And all of those factors will contribute to what has been labeled the golden age of american Higher Education between 1945 and 1970 College Enrollments increase in the United States by 227 said that by 1970, over one third of americans between the ages of 18 and 24 are enrolled. Public institutions will meet most ofdi this demand either by expanding existing campuses or constructing entirely new ones such as the university of south florida and tampa. Established in 1956, it was as the first john adam liked to claim the first four year Public University conceived plan and build in the United States in the 20th century. When it opened to students in 1960 the university had a budget of 2. 4 million, employees including 109 fulltime faculty and fewer than 2,000 students. One decade later, the budget was 38. 4 million included 73 billion buildings and over 1700 employees from 833 fulltime faculty and almost 18,000 students at the campus in st. Petersburg. By any measure, this was Remarkable Growth but what is interesting is that it is designed intentionally tose serd a nontraditional urban commuter student populations of these are students who may not have previously pursued a college degree. In fact, when it opens it has no dormitories because the state nwants the expectation is that students will want to save money by livingg at home and commuting to school and indeed they are correct. But large publilarge public unie not the only kind of Higher Education institutions have experienced explosive growth during this period. Between 1965 and 69, more than one new Community College campus opened every week in the United States. In the book i write about the Rhode Island College and santa fe Community College as an example of what amounts to the two errors of Community College history. One is served for nearly as Junior College providing the first two years of the undergraduate course of study and when they then add of then e of a vocational orientation and here again imm not going to go to heavily into the details of the history except to say to Community College, which is the only kind of Higher Education institution that americans can rightfully claim to have invented in the rest of the models from elsewhere but that Community College historically takes the concern of access and affordability and relevant. So as you can see, american Higher Education is characterized not by bein beingn ivory tower set aside from society and never changing butut in fact is characterized by institutional transformation, like reform and by change which brings us to the present. In the sense that this is yet another transitional if not transformational period in history. So what if we were to apply the lessons of w the past with today what woulwith what we learn and . That is pretty clear we would expect new kinds of institutional types to develop and assert themselves to call for greater access, effectiveness, relevance and affordability. And we would expect none of this would have been easily. It wasnt the consensus that characterized the historic transitional period. It was the consternation, experimentation and we would expect many mainstreamma Higher Education to initially resisted the calresistthe call to change, butalnd for them to end the us y adopt elementend the use ofthe e reforms over time. What does that look likeou toda . You probably all have better answers than i do today that if i were to take a crack at it i would say that it probably looks Something Like this. And so, our we approaching the end of college i dont know. That is the constant across the period of transition and transformation throughout so what speak wwould speak we areie its open to the critique and indeed i am dazed that critique in the book. Undoubtably theyve employed the rhetoric of the Public Interest over time while simultaneously advocating policies and practices that did little to advance it. Its higif Higher Education inss demonstrated a continuing dedication to the t common good even while historic social political andnd economic forces have undermined if not directly opposed to name. As critical as Many Americans have become of Higher Education today, most colleges and universities in the present teachs students how to reach conclusions s supported by logic and evidence toth conduct reseah that results for instance medical discoveries and to extend our lives and they encourage students to engage in active lives of service. Most have done this moreover while becoming ever more acceptable to those that have historically and euphemistically been labeled nontraditional students. So i believe as long as colleges and adversities holds true to that core mission they will produce more than just knowledge that contributes to the next technological innovation or a workforce that successfully workforce that successfully compete in a global economy. Its increasingly important institutions of foster personal advancement while as people from the reverend Joseph Mccain to john allen claimed to promote civic capacity and commitment to the public good necessary for American Life to boorish in the years to come. Thank you very much. [applause] i think we have time for questions and there are microphones throughout. On either side of the room up to the front. My question is simple. We find ourselves in that youre not where the public good as a con is under attack . Yes, for sure. The way that ice cream at the history in the book is to talk about these competing what i describe as a sort of social ethos in america and we have those that are present from the nations history and the civic mindedness that closely aligns with theos conception of the common good. Practicality, commercialism and in the present what i describe as affluence. And the claim i make in the book is those four things a though we might like to think of them as depending on ones perspective its a sort of collection all narrative that there was a time back in history when civic minded this was the rule of the day and weve gone from practicality to the influence and here we are today. I dont see that in the archival record. They are present and in tension in society throughout the nations history but in the nations history one of those ideas steps forward and becomes the defining ethos of e its time and tells the sort ofin definite story of Higher Education at a particular moment in time so during the National Period i would argue that ethos that is in fact the defining statement ofim its time in six mindednes s that doesnt suggest practicality and commercialism and civic nakedness are no longer with us in fact i think they are, in particular if this is sort of where the rubber hits the road when i speak with faculty at various colleges and universities and i ask them whether or not they do the work that they do simply for their own selfinterest is that what aiming for, no one ever agrees to that claim and theres always the driving sense that we do the work we do in Higher Education at least in part to advance the common good. Succumb is the common good or a sense of the common good under attack i think probably it is. It has higher educatio educatios abandoned that commitment i i dont think it has but its with us in a very real way as to future changes and in a moment of transition in Higher Education i thinkrt its importt that we hang on to that very tightly for the longstanding commitment to colleges and universities have. It feels like student debt is very different at this point in time. Do you see that as a major disruptor . Its the cost of education. Hispanic as we characterized the moment that we are in the college and University History in the moment of affluent, i think for sure the financial picture is central toin figuring out how we are going to move forward the claim i would think is thamakeis that this is not ng back to sort of my initial frustration of the saturdayen evening post doesnt pay the value of the college or university degreesi has been a question thats been with us for a long time in the present. The question becomes is the cost of Higher Education go so far out of control with google that it starts to undermine the value that people feel they get from it, the stupid debt is so tric tricky. The cost of the education is mixed up in the cost of professional education and graduate degrees and you wind up with these claims its not worth getting the undergraduate degree because he will come ou people m hundred 25,000 in debt. That isnt for the most part the case. The average undergraduate in the United States today is about 25,000 we know that over the course of a lifetime weve all seen that in terms of lifetime earnings and undergraduate certainty of 25,000, so. The reporting ive seen on the recently is that its actually going to begin to control itself because our enrollment in the demographic population in the United States the number of students who will be deploying to college in the future will be applying so we will have a supply and demand so the cost of college is going to come down if he will. Somewhat curious about your thoughts as w we see the modification in higher educati education. If we are to analyze what those are and e. Ggol evil of those t would bring the two pieces of private good perspective together, so i think about the data and analytics and the ability to make decisions based on the data or systems thinking or new perspectives that i dont know have always been a part of the common good are going to be critical moving forward. Hispanic in my study of the curriculum in history one of the things i found interesting is how much convergence there is so i will give you a good example. We will go back to the early history where there is a classical education being offered and the rationale is that its going to foster and virtue and that is what is necessary in order to prepare students to go on to the liberal profession. Thereve been changes in the way that we conceive of how that works overtime. And its not much of a stretch to imagine a college or university today saying we have a curriculum in place that exists for the purpose for fostering a certain thing that will actually serve students and their future as they move into their professional careers. Its the same narrative if we change the composition of the curriculum in order to have the institutional structures in order to sort of meats that. So will Higher Education inc. Some of these more Innovative New sources of development, sure, absolutely as it has done over time. And they will do that in a way that at times seems contradictory. A good example of this would be Higher Education in the late 19th century when this idea of a practical curriculum and orientation and Student Learning things that is the conventional wisdom in high gear education aninthe second half of the 19th century and what is the other thing that is created in Higher Education in the second half of the 19th century the Research University how do those fit together there are many ways in which they dont but one of the great capacities is that its actually able to take things that are seemingly in contradictionin to integrate a Single Institution that may have sort of multiple missions and those missions may at times be in contradiction with one another which is what takes the feedback to the claim these institutions exist for the purpose of advancing the common good to fill the liberal professions in the region. How does that work that is in some ways the genius of the system. Thank you for a wonderful presentation i enjoyed the perspectives and the parallels. You can see how that might have been thebe case, it was a fabuls wealth and the globalized world but i dont think anybody foresaw as you saw the First World War crushing economic depression, so while many of us in this room know what the usual suspects are further disruption of Higher Education would you care to speculate on what the forces for change might be on the horizon that must not be the intention i am carrying a working group at my college to think about the liberal Arts Education ten years out from now and one of the questions are what are the forces that are going to affect the education that will lead to change ten years from now the number one item on my list in response to that question is inequality i just cant imagine how high your education will continue to grapple with the kinds of strategies t developed in the United States. At such a deeper level we are talking about the quality of people in existence and the quality of their lives. He knows that i know that it ler segregation in schools and these have profound consequences for students education and the opportunity to learn and how that is going to relate to the education level at this point is anyones guess. I think that in equity and inequality would be central to that. The reason i put this slide towards the end if indeed we are in this moment of another transitional moment and something will be in reaction to what came before, i dont know what its going to look like but my hunch is that it has something to do with the way the colleges and universities are using the technology to make tiger education more. The perfectly characterizes the moments of transportation so we are sort of groping towards the future here is not surprising at all. What the future is going to be is anyones guess. To promot propose something likn Agricultural College or Teacher Training School was so completely different than what came before that there were quite aho few people wondering what are you doing to hide education and if you are a vision of the future that comes through with these Agricultural Colleges and mining and mechanics and sciences and teachers training if it comes through, you will destroy education in america. That is in the archival record and of course we hear those sorts of conversations in these kind of movements. Maybe we are going to destroy the Free Education but its not going to be that apocalyptic. We started seeing these exist throughout but theres been a significant change in the last 50 years and the percentage of the cohorts that go on to college and then the tradition of the population that are returning in the different ages, so i guess my question for you in this Historical Perspective is have we made a mistake in assuming Everyone Needs to be and allowing the diversity thats their is still oriented towards this concept of an undergraduate degree as a necessary threshold to Enter Society successfully. Its a great question. In beginning my own career at the secondary level and is now working inil higher ad and constantly being interested in the connections between and the way that we often overlook the cover of k12 reform to have implications for influence on the colleges and universities. When i was in junior high school, we took workshop. Vocational education was workshop. Its a long story, but my mom and dad built their a own home t i had to take a course to learn Something Like this and of course all the girls took another conversation for another time, but that was Vocational Education. By the time i started teaching high school, Vocational Education was english, math, history. So what have traditionally been declared college prep because they were going to require that people have these sort of critical abilities associated with quantitative literacy so theres a way that this is the long answer to the question, but the way the pipeline has the k12 pipeline has led in recent decades only in one direction and really that is to a college that offers primarily academic experiences. Is that a mistake . I think we could have had a more expensive view by what we had on Higher Education and what we meant by vocation. We could have had a more informed. View of what the International Trade agreements were going to do to the economy and that sort of thing, so i dont know if it was a mistake. I guess i can speak from my own personal experience into the college did a whole lot more for me than just prepare me for a job. Expertise. The governance structure was your first. The United States has an interesting structure in Higher Education compared to European Countries that we borrowed our models from. The models, vigor cultural colleges, the residential liberal arts colleges, those we imported and then changed up a little bit. But its always been different because for the most part Higher Education has had to support themselves over time. Even Public Institutions over time have had to do a lot to support themselves. That led to a hierarchy that looks different from the hierarchy ocn Higher Education institutions in your. The idea of a board of trustees and a president selected by the board looks different in the United States. Even with the Public Institutions, South Carolinas good example. Yet a governing board that came from the political class. That looks different from what we would see elsewhere in the world. The story the faculty is interesting. Have a wonderful quote in the book from the late 1800s. The faculty member has written saying basically the role of the faculty member is like being a member of the crew on the ship. Of this hierarchy above me. They basically call me to ask for input was theyve already made the decision. So which way is the port going to steer . Will ask you for your input after we started steering the ship. The sense of the faculty as a secondclass group with a hired hands would be the metaphor came out of this for the second half of the century when Higher Education to become incorporated in the same way they wrote about the incorporation of america. We see it happening in interesting ways. The percentage of College President s coming from corporate ranks rather than ministerial drinks changes dramatically. They do become more corporate institutions. As they do the faculty see themselves as hired hands. That creates an interesting tension in Higher Education. This is the moment in which the colleges and universities begin to form in faculty join professional associations and have divided loyalties between the institutions and professional associations. As the second half of the 19th century cases like the edward ross case in which faculty are beginning to assert themselves as a professional body and begin to demand certain rights and protections. It comes out of that era. Going back to 1862 for a moment. And the reasons behind it why it was passed. About two years Later Congress passed the 70 landgrant act which is the first time we set aside land for the same side as it was passed. The benefit of the people in the good of society. In my mind those have been tied together. Whats interesting having that perspective. The way the parks became his lavatories is. Im curious to research, has that given you any insights into the tenuous connection between the two . In a lot of ways as they have grown and become major institutions does your research give insights to that . Thats a great question. One of the interesting things about the moral act this is a historical event that we think we know the history of and then we do digging in realize its not so true. The moral act was initially proposed and voted on prior to the civil war. Congress passed and the president vetoed it and it was dead. The reason was because of politics. Many of the Southern States that would eventually form the confederacy felt it was a violation of states rights. The federal government was overreaching by becoming involved in a states issue, education. Whether be k12 or Higher Education in the federal government should stay out of it. The landgrant tact was dead in the water. Why did it eventually pass . The war began. The Southern States withdrew from the union. Form the confederacy, now theyre not there to vote against it and it passed. I think thats a telling of the. The passage of this act that have profound ramifications for Higher Education really cannot be understated. Is essentially a product of the political dynamic of the time and how things changed. If theres anything i take from the study of that time in these major pieces of legislation, is the importance of the political contacts in which those things arise and interest in that are voted on in written into law. The moral act in and of itself had a profound influence in Higher Education in america. New institutions were created in previously existing institutions suddenly had an infusion of support that allowed them to do innovative things that they otherwise would not have done. Cornell university is a good example of that. Thank you for this discussion. Earlier today we heard the contentcontext of middleclass republicans questioning the value of Higher Education that has a was been a base for support for Higher Education, have you see a difference on how certain classes youd Higher Education . We went through really Interesting Times where theres been populist revolts against Higher Education. An example would be the rise of colleges. These all collegiate places they came to be seen by this is a crass example, but Andrew Jackson supporters they were seen as these privileged elite places that were passing out advantages to this wealthy privileged class. There are not benefiting america. The piece is crucial. The claim was not just that they were doing good for certain segment of American Society and not everyone, actually didnt have the capacity to promote the common good any longer. You had a creation of a new set of institutions that came out of the populist movements. Weve seen that many times. Another example is at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century when college becomes popular. This is the rise of the college men and women. A whole fashion that becomes associated with being a college student. So although a small percentage of the American Population is going to college in 1900, theres an outside influence that theyre having in the american imagination so, we see that. That is, in ghana many different ways. At least in terms of the present moment, there are two things that are going on. One has to do with the perceived political orientation of the faculty at most colleges and universities is that maybe would not be surprising that a survey of people identified as republicans might not have as positive view of Higher Education today than other folks it seems to make sense. Another piece of the the other thing thats interesting is do these places do anything . What do they do for america . How do they contribute to the common good and the public good . How do they contribute to the nation . Thats a profound question to ask of Higher Education. To see there is a percentage of americans picking up as we go who are answering that question by saying maybe they dont contribute in a meaningful and profound ways thats a disturbing trend. I think a lot of that has to do with vocational listen. Do these places actually provide an education that is going to benefit my child, son or daughter after they graduate in the workforce. Explain to me how majoring in english is going to do that. Thats a question people are asking. The guy who works in my car asked it the other day. I give my answer, but. I think weve run out of time. [applause]