[inaudible conversations] good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, absolutely delighted to welcome you here, a special thank you to alma, that mall and joe for their sponsorship of our monthly book series. And cant hear me in the back . Theyll turn up the mook crow phone a little bit. I think were set now. This is a historic book talk here because its actual through the last one were going to have at these offices. I think some of you are aware, the institute is moving to new digs, a few blocks away in the west end. So our next session like this will be there, at 2300m street. January 22nd with David Ignatius and i hope well see many of you at that time. I also want to welcome all of our guests watching this live streamed and especially our many guests watching this on cspan. Also, a very special welcome, were delighted to have 25 students here from washington latin school. Washington latin high school. And i think i was discussing this with bob dallek how appropriate it is to have a group like this because as he notes in the press preface of this book in the time of demoralization, and despite the many fine biographs to which, by the way, he gives enormous and clear and explicit credit in this book, that theres a concern that the younger generation, with limited knowledge of American History, is increasingly unaware of what Franklin Roosevelt did for the nation and for the world. And also, to demonstrate weight great president ial leadership is like and rekindle faith in young people that n the belief that such leadership is possible. Our guest need little introduction especially near washington. One our countrys greatest political biographers and historians, bancroft prize winner for an earlier book on Franklin Roosevelt and his foreign policy, author at least a dozen pie going graphs biography including kennedy, truman, nixon, johnson, and reagan, and as i said, an absolutely wonderful book. Like many in this room, i think you have probably read other biographies of frank frank and i encourage your to read this one, despite its heft, you wasnt be able to put it down. And it guess obviously while much. It talks about his time in the white house, it of course begins with his Hudson Valley childhood, his days assistant secretary of the navy, his time of battling tamny hall in new york politics and as governor of new york, and of course, much of it focusing on his stewardship of two of the most challenging periods in American History, the Great Depression and world war ii. Lets discuss our High School Students. Why another biography of Franklin Roosevelt. Let me say how much i appreciate that nice introduction, and it makes me think of one i received a number of years back when i was lecturing in the soviet union. My host on that occasion, who i like to think had command of the english, introduced me by saying author of the kind of book that once you put them down you cant pick them up again. [laughter] i will say, cant resist saying that here we are at this historic moment when this will be the last of the sessions in this room. Reminds me of some people occasionally say to me, glory history and i say, not yet. Get back to your question, you quoted what my feeling was as i went to work on this book, that roosevelt has been a removed figure for many people in this country, particularly young people. I deach at Stanford University and they dont remember reagan was president. So, roosevelt is like ancient history with them. And people are so down currently on politics, and on the presidency also because what is so striking to me is the fact that donald trump has never achieved a 50 Approval Rating in these over ten months now that he has been in office. If you go and look at the gallup polls, Franklin Roosevelt, 12 plus years, never went below 50 . It was really an extraordinary achievement, and so i think its important for people to recall what effective, great leadership could look like, and roosevelt has limitations. He was not a saint, and we can talk about these flaws and missteps, but by and large, he was a transforming leader and really quite extraordinary. We will talk a little bit about some of those flaws, perhaps a little later, but you also quote early in the book the New York Times, upon his death, and the New York Times hardly sick said, men will thank god on their knees 100 years from now that Franklin Delano roosevelt was in the house. Extraordinary statement, and that 100 years is just few decade away. Are you confident that his position is secure, will remain secure in the pantheon of american greats and even world greats . Well, first of all, i think one of our three great president s of American History, along with George Washington and abraham lincoln. So, what makes him so extraordinary . When he came into the presidency in march of 1933, the country was in miserable shape. 25 thief work force wheres unemployed. There was starvation, men who would gather at garbage cans out of restaurants at 10 00, 11 00 in the evening in order to find scraps of food because they were so impoverished they some middle class men selling apples with five cents apiece on street corners. Now, when roosevelt came into office, he wasnt sure what he was going to do but he understood that he needed, first of all to generate renewed hope in the American Economic and political system. Remember, this is a time when you had mussolini and fastism in italy and he made the trains run on time. Hitler had taken power in nazi germany, stalin was crowing about the five year plans and the achievements in the soviet union, and so there was a lot of talk about the idea that this american system of government, politics and its economy, could not last, you see. Roosevelt refuted that. He didnt end the depression. Industrial mobilization did that in 19391940. But he did something i think more important. He humanized the American Industrial system. He put into place Social Security, the federal deposit insurance corporation, the civilian conservation corps, dams that were built across the country. You can go to the midwestern universities at indiana, and you see a building that was a Student Union building that was put up by the wpa and it says, john carm usedy, direct you of wpa in 1937, when it was they put up the building but he created a base with Unemployment Insurance and Social Security and a sense that people should be the great priority of the Economic System in this country, and its worked ever sense. Who would take away Social Security now . Maybe donald trump. I didnt say that. Who i would take away Lyndon Johnson heroics protege, would his protege, would put across civil rights, medicare. Part of this system of humanizing the American Industrial system. It saved our economic and political system, i believe, because people were signed on it to. Last point, he used his fireside chats. He was brilliant at connecting to the public. And after he died, somebody stopped Eleanor Roosevelt on the street and said to her issue miss the way your husband used could speak to me about my government. Can you imagine anyone saying that about any politician now . Its remarkable. Or the man who stood by the Railway Track as the body was being transported from warm springs, georgia, back to hyde park, and he stood sobbing and somebody next to him said, did you know the president . And he said, no, but he knew me. What a telling way to describe the extraordinary connection that he made with people, and it sustained him through the 12 plus year, and this was not a man who was in particularly good health. He was immobilized. He had to sit in the chair all day long, and i found one letter in which he said to somebody, you know, congressman, when youre frustrated you can get up and walk about and walk off some of your anguish, he said. Im stuck in this chair all day long. He never would have said things in public that he might talk about in private. The way, for example, he said about Adolph Hitler in 1938 after crystal knock, this man, he said, is a maniac with a mission. He wouldnt say that in public. But we had this information now about how he would talk in private particularly to his distant cousin, margaret, whose diaries were published and wonderful material in there about how the he would talk to her, and he would say to her things like, days. Tell you this, i know you wont repeat it. I only tell it to you. Well come back to so many of these things, including daisy and including eleanor and of course, the fireside chats. You describe its so hard for anyone to appreciate any of this just what the country was like and then it was fourmonth between between election and inauguration, and in the time after hoover, in that fourmonth period you have an extraordinary quit one someone said ever been a period comparable could those four months in terms of the level of despair and he said, yes, and it lasted 400 years, and it was the called the dark ages. So you sort of alluded to thus. When we came into the white house and then before those extraordinary 100 days when he signed 15 extraordinary bills, he didnt really have a plan. What was how was he successful when he had no secret plan . Trump said he had all kind of secret plans. President roosevelt never said he had a machine yet he convinced the American Public he knew what he was doing. How did hoe do that . He began with his campaign in which Herbert Hoover said he was a chameleon, and what it remind met also of the story my friend arthur lessinger told me about john kennedy. Kennedy invite him to be the white house and lessinger said, what are we doing and kennedy said, i dont know, arthur. I dont even know what ill be doing there but government is eight hours a day, and it was an honest statement because they were pragmatists, people who responded to shifts and maneuvers and changes and also he was a brilliant politician in the sense that he could manipulate there was a certain deviousness to him. For example, the big any big uat the time was the protective tariff that seemed to remote at this point, but roosevelt told this brain trust to write two speeches, one for high tariff and one for low tariff and this is in days before the internet, or television. He would go out in a high tariff area and give the high tariff speech and the low tariff everywhere, the they would say to him, what are you going to do . He said ill show you. Tend of the talk people in the crude for high tariff, that that is the definition of a damn good politician. She was incredibly pragmatic and he was responded to fishes as they arose. The fireside chat he gave was about the banking crisis, because there was no federal deposit insurance corporation. That was anen advantages invention of the new deal and people were losing their life savings. Roosevelt gives a speech in which he says were going to have a bank holiday. Doesnt talk about a crisis, a malaise, and instead well have a holiday go out and have a good time. And what the great columnist said overnight the news the country had shifted. It was an increase in hope and expectations that the system would sustain itself. That was 1929 and also probably the first time that most americans ever heard the voice of a president. Thats right. At that time, of course. So, as an institute among many other things we focus on leadership and what it takes to be a great leader and one thing that is remarkable one this remarkable about roosevelt is how he managed to balance attacks he was attacked on all side, by the left, from the right. Most over the newspapers in the country were against him. America had this extraordinary antipathy toy collectivization or fear of socialism and you described something that i think many of us think is new when you describe the deep Cultural Divide between urban and rural america, modernists and fundamentalists. How did the find Common Ground and get to that kind of popularity . Its really such a good point because he was mindful of the divide in the country, and in 1924, when the democrats tried to put up a okayed at candidate, it took 103 ballots before the settle on a man named john d. Davis from west virginia, who nobody remembered now certainly, and was a nonentity, and it was because of that deep divide between the modernists and i to fundamental lists of the south and the north, you see. Roosevelt brought people into his administration, he dealt with the southern segregationists who were running the committees in the house and the senate, and he would the fact that he could not for the High School Students might not remember, the south was his base. Thats right. The democratic south, solid democratic south, and the would win their support. What was so interesting is that he never went out of his way to work especially hard for africanamericans. Didnt support the antinoosing legislation at that time kept coming up in the congress. By the end of his presidency, however, africanamericans had shifted to the Democratic Party, and the saying was, turn lincolns face to the wall. And that roosevelt and the democrats. Somebody said to me, which is marvelous, a folk song by a black singer, folk singer, and its called Franklin Roosevelt, the poor mans friend. And africanamericans were taken moved to the Democratic Party by all those programs for which they received certain benefits, and as roosevelt said, better a government that lives in a spirit of charity than one frozen in the ice of its own indifference. And he connected to people with that kind of language, and those options there was substance to it. Wasnt just rhetoric about how he was going to make the country great again. There was real substance do it which changed peoples lives. A very large portion of the book is focused on his second term and you talk about the second term curse. And it if it had not been for the onset of the war, he might not have been reelected. Want to just tell us a bit about the dynamics in the second term. Sure. The second term, he began by making the misjudgment of trying to put across the packing plan, and it never went through. Because the Supreme Court was invalidating many of the key element of the new deal and he was afraid that the court would invalidate all of it. Yes and the new deal be vetoed, by the Supreme Court, particular he thing a actual tour and the National Recovery act and he was worried that this could he wanted to put liberal justices on the bench who would then vote to support these new deal measures, and you have to understand the expansion of First Authority under his leadership, but he had the model before him of Theodore Roosevelt, his cousin, and making the government the center of Political Authority and action in this country, and he was these were his historical examples he was following through on this and beth tr and roosevelt were still quite popular and he was able to sort of operate in their shadow, but theres no question that the recession that hit the country in 37 and 38 and the attempt to purge the Democratic Party of conservative southerners in particular, that failed, and so by 1939, even though he still had 50 Approval Rating this likelihood he could run for a third term and break the twoterm precedent was just out of the question. But along came the war, and people were afraid, reluctant to shift to another leader in this perilous time. Well come back back to the. Lets turn to how you describe the personal history and the emotional and personal dimensions of his life, and first of all, you talk about describe the childhood and it was a childhood where he was not especially noted for his brilliance or extraordinary qualities either at the school or at harvard, all now although you say there were signs about his extraordinary selfconfidence and selfreliance. So, there were no signs as a man in his teens and 20s that this was going to be on of the great men of the century. In fact, at harvard he was described as a fairy duster, someone who is shallow, who is a patrician, who was self selfselfindulgent but he had the model of Theodore Roosevelt and the strenuous life, and the idea that he was entitled to lead the country somebody said later that Franklin Roosevelts idea of the presidency was fdr in the white house. And he was the one who justifiably should be setting in the office. He had selfconfidence that allowed him to confront the big issues. So, why did a patrician choose to go into politics . There were some signs in here, he was bored with money and snobbery and pretention, and he could have had such an easy life after columbia law and stale in new york and making money and going up to hyde park. Socially after his polio, stricken at the age of 39 in 1921, and his mother wanted him to good back to hyde park and just be a kind of. Aristocrat. Just took it easy and they had enough wealth and but he was determined and so was eleanor, and so was a man named louis howe, who was his principal political adviser, and eleanor played a huge part in moving him forward, in supporting him, despite the fact that they had a very rocky marriage because he had had an affair in 1918 that she found out about. Do you think he deliberately wanted her to find out about it . I think he did. Think he have jeer. She found of cache of love letters. Thats right and revealed to her but at the end of the day, they shared Public Affairs as their bond, something with which was common to them, and they beth had a good both had a good sense of humor. The joke i love is how ben cohen who was on his brain trust came into the oval office and roosevelt was chuckling and he said, mr. President , mind sharing your joke with me . He said all right, eleanor was just in here, she had a physical this morning with her doctor, and so when he came any said to her, so, eleanor, what did the doctor have to say about that big ass of yours . He she said, franklin, he had nothing to say about you. He loved it. Lets come back to polio and then come back to eleanor. He was stricken when he in 1921 when he was 39, and actually many of the people, many off you here have been to our new york home for many of our programs very much like this, which is the roosevelt house, which is where he and eleanor lived, and where, as you describe in here, after his first hospital spell, he was literally carried upstairs to the second floor. I think many people think it was hidden from the American People, but the New York Times reported on the front page when he was struck with polio. For much of the rest of the career, there was very little mention of this, and just talk to us a little bit about how that was staged, how important that was to him. He never even revealed, i discovered reading the book, never, ever mentioned anything about a disability until i think in this last term, or very, very late in his life, and at that point, you describe that it was too painful for him even to stand with crutches. Yes. He was the extent to which he was disabled he hid the extent to which he was disabled. There are no surviving photographs of him during the presidency demonstrating his prowess, his immobility demonstrate his paralysis, his impossibility. They did that on purpose because what he understood is when he came to the presidency, people knew that he had had polio. Him recovery through this depression. Understood that there was this psychological connection that if you voted for him, he got the nomination in 1932, broke tradition by getting on a plane and flew to chicago. And turned back, and went forward. We landed in chicago and tried to demonstrate to the public dont do that. I could take this plane trip and did those arduous journeys during the war, to casablanca, and he was already a dying man but the only parts that made reference to this was a speech he gave when he came back, he said to congress, he said maybe you will forgive me for sitting down but i just got back from i carry a seal around each one. The disability that you see do you think it is possible that is polio added to his ambition or affected him that way and similarly, whether his need and ability to hide it, to his skill as an actor. The two greatest actors it looks good. He was on stage but all the presents were. John kennedy for example, he has turned into an iconic figure. At the age of 46, a poster of him looking down, the country needs heroes, it needs some president s that you look up to and you see it. The current mood in the country, the current distress in politics and the fact that donald trump has never come up with 50 in his Approval Ratings during his almost one year in office, this is unprecedented. All president s go through a honeymoon period in the beginning and have some kind of support. In the beginning there is consensus going back to Thomas Jefferson to say we are all federalists, we are all public and, we are all americans, the first time the transition from one Political Party to another. It was suggesting like so many other countries get into a civil war, revolutions over there politics. These political changes in civil, constructive way. And the difficulties, this is what i think is quite amazing, we can turn to the isolationism, those who never believe in it. 35, 36, 37 where he essentially, world war i, facing hitler. And Japanese Military aggression across asia. And attacked by the japanese in china. Let them pay operations, make retaliate, what was that gunboat doing their . Dont get us into a war. It was a very difficult, challenging time and he understood america needed to act and churchill understood, the japanese admiral who planned the pearl harbor attack, he said the american last 6 months in the new war, japan loses because he understood the industrial might of america and its ability to mobilize and support the russians and churchill said in his memoirs after pearl harbor, accept the sleep of babes because i knew now the americans in the war. 419,000 americans lost their lives in that conflict and to this day i dont know how many, it is very moving. Tell us a little more how he navigated, that sense of neutrality, antiwar sentiment and strong antiimmigration views, antisemitic views. Even though the public increasingly reviled hitler there was no sense that there was a threat to the homeland, yet he was able to move the country. Extraordinary. Because he spoke not about getting into the war as an aggressor, the russians and the british, but rather having the first peacetime drop in American History in 1940 still noticed all the isolationist time, he said it said nobody was drafted in the western hemisphere. They guard against it to europe. And troops can only serve for one year. That was kind of crazy. At the beginning and once again he went back. This is a time sweden, switzerland, essentially had maneuverings in 1948, upstate new york. And pitchforks, this is a rifle and tma k, put it pretend this coming. The military at the time and talk about defense, in the 1940 campaign and running for a third term and he says repeatedly we will not go to war unless we are attacked by a foreign nation. October 31st, he dropped unless we are attacked by a foreign nation. After that, he was attacked, a famous book at georgetown university, going to war. And there were all those allegations about pearl harbor. Pearl harbor was a godsend, allowed us to go in as a unified nation. People said they knew it was coming. To be attacked, he could have had a couple ships there coming and to invest so much, so many men, vulnerable, 3000 americans were killed pearl harbor warning the decision, that occurred in pearl harbor, couldnt imagine the japanese could carry it off. Naval intelligence, could make 300 mile trip in an aircraft carrier. Engines on the plane, they dont have torpedoes for the shallow depth of pearl harbor unless they changed the torpedoes in the solid depths of pearl harbor and two guys in a radar station. And all these doctor coming across the screen. What is this . And flown in from san francisco, they called down to headquarters, broken and shut it down. And the japanese planes coming off of those aircraft carriers and bombed the hell out of right there. And up against it, so strong, when you talk about sometimes privately and then publicly, you describe in here you refer and to lindbergh, the Great American hero as a nazi and as someone parroting goebels propaganda. Without question. And similarly, it came to him, the fact that 80 jews who had been, 1940, had gotten to norfolk, virginia and came into the united states, the assistant secretary of state, and antisemite, any kind of relaxation of integration, franklin, let these people in, fleeing the nazis, and he is a fascist. You must not talk that way about him. But he is. Roosevelt was very cautious, how he dealt with this issue. He was ready to see jews torn up by the nazis, he was horrified by it but politically, the immigration antisemitic supplement in the country was so powerful it took henry morgan fall, his secretary of the treasury, came to him in 44 and said we lose new york if you dont do something about the jews who were trying to escape the nazis and the war refugee board. They only saved a couple thousand people, in upstate new york. In that sense in any way could he have bombed the trains . Rutledge complained he didnt bomb auschwitz, and hitlers lines were the easiest thing to prepare and the nazis it was so intense, using the war in the last year, they kept using, sending people to death camps instead of using them for factory work, plus hitler and the nazis were so intent. Now that we are in the war, how is roosevelt as a war tactician . Here he was working, you describe going all the way working with churchill, how was his political judgment with respect to the war . Very impressive. When we got into the war Public Opinion was very eager to fight the japanese first. There was rage against japan, a surprise attack. Roosevelt people said that, and while they hated hitler and the nazis, they wanted to fight japan first. Roosevelt and churchill understood the wisest strategy, they represented the greatest threat. They defeated hitler and the nazis, japan would succumb of its own limitations, roosevelt signed on, einstein urging they urge to try to split the atom and ultimately build an atomic bomb, signed up for that. Roosevelt did use the atomic bomb against japan, without question. A couple million dollars, building that, very and also they saw the atomic bomb as a player for what they were doing, the pilot bombing, in tokyo, firebombing in dresden, 40,000 people perished, took hundreds of planes delivering a massive amount of incendiary bombs, but the attitudes was one plane dropping woman bomb, absolutely. Thousands of americans perished in beijing and japan. You refer to a few of the low points, when he could have done more about Eastern European jews, Supreme Court packing, whether he couldve done more about civil rights, antilynching legislation. The other down point was japanese internment and how did that happen . How do you explain that in the context of this otherwise extraordinary man . The American Civil Liberties union, it was the most egregious violation of American Civil Liberties in the countrys history. Roosevelt understood at the time that the united states, by pearl harbor, they lost guam, burma, to the japanese, india was threatened, they were fearful that they needed to stop the japanese advance but because roosevelt wanted to do it first, he needed some psychological blows to strike against the japanese. They did two things, in tokyo. They did significant military damage. And the American Strike the islands. The point asked roosevelt, where did those planes come from . From shangrila which was a mythical place in the novel in the 1940s. As far as incarcerating the japanese, striking back against japan. And roosevelt had the good sense in the army, on its way up the roof to italy and distinguish itself, winning medals and africanamericans, they are cooks and stewards and in the army, they set up an air unit. And they are trained to be pilots and apply the bombers and a little roosevelt went down to tuscaloosa, alabama, in a plane with one of these. They signed them into combat, and pressured the army to come combat and they applied a method that was superior to any other air unit in that war. And metals, so it was what they were doing. Still, you can say it was heroic in getting up there and saying lets do the right thing because fighting for equal rights against the barbarism the nazis engaged. You spent some time talking about his medical history with polio and are quite candid about his final decline which was also hidden to most americans and the first signs of his age were at the time of his fourth inauguration. Across dupont circle, Eleanor Roosevelt when she received news of his death, was at a club meeting on the circle, april 12th. How seriously ill was he at the end of his third term and what did the people around him think . In the beginning of 1940 when he sat in his dining room at hyde park, the results of the election, he was with his secret service agent, broke out in a cold sweat, in terrible pain, and to the secret service, close the door and dont let anyone in. The man said mrs. Roosevelt, i told you know. He was having an internet attack and a series of episodes in which it points in pain over these attacks. Suffering the beginnings we had his Blood Pressure readings which were on the moon, they would get readings, 210 180 or something. Most of this audience knows what that means. There were serious questions whether he could get through a fourth term. He knew his health wasnt great and what he thought to do, younger again because the public wanted him to be president until the war ended do. Of the war were over, wouldnt have done that because the public was ready to move on. The war was over and the prime ministership. He runs again because the war was on and he told daisy that what he felt like doing was resigning after one year. And hidden an International Peace organization, turning the office over to harry truman. He understood but when he got to the altar in february 1945, the president is suffering from hardening of the arteries and the brain, he will be dead in three month time. He call it right on the mark. And hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people perishing in this conflict. That was what the war was about. Just past 1 00, we have time left as we always do, turn to the audience, this is being taped, you can wait for a microphone, the gentleman in the third row of the microphone. How would roosevelt have gotten us into the war without the attack on pearl harbor, if pearl harbor had not been attacked how would roosevelt have gotten us into the war . It is a counterfactual question. He was waiting for some incident as he told churchill at the atlantic conference, something that was calamitous enough and troubling enough to bring the country together. Would have taken something, reversing with russia, something that would have attributed a feeling like that, the nazis might step in. Right here. Thank you very much, fascinating story. I dont recognize my country anymore and i dont recognize this city. I imagine that is how people in 1930s felt, is there any leadership you see now that can write this ship . Is there anybody out there, any style of leadership that can help us out . As a historian i am always glad to predict the future. [laughter] the democrats badly need to find a young fresh face, someone who is not clearly in evidence, they lost last time in part because of clinton fatigue. Jeb bush couldnt get anywhere, bush fatigue. The democrats need somebody young and also, if trump makes it in the next three years, the democrats will have a chance to win. Who will emerge, i think, you need to look at what happens in 2018. Hopefully someone they emerge, the governor of the state of washington, at this point, the way obama came forward and emerged, the way jimmy carter came forward and emerged, i dont know who it will be. Someone will emerge and theres a tremendous vulnerability on the part of republicans if they pass this tax bill it is going to add to the sense of grievance and a difficult time, i agree with you. The gentleman in the back who do you think is more liberal, Eleanor Roosevelt, fdr, other than eleanor being his eyes and ears in the public, how did she contribute to the great progressive policies that were passed . No question that eleanor is a voice to his left. And the secretary of the interior. This is the way he balanced them. You had frank knoxs cabinet, republicans he is always thinking about the political. For example in 1944 he said a man named Patrick Hurley to china as an american ambassador. Herbert hoovers secretary of war. He was a conservative oklahoma Oil Businessman and he did not know anything about china. He wrote to chang high check mister check. He was roosevelt had him there for political reasons, to work on a Coalition Government because china was in danger of the civil war. You wanted a Coalition Government and if that failed it was a political shield. He was always thinking about the domestic politics and this was part of it but eleanor was the voice on the left, and others, more liberal and a speech in 1944 about the economic bill of rights, put up the flag, restoring the new deal, but who knows what would have happened . He would have resigned after one year because his health was very precarious. One of the washington latin students, the intended audience for this book . Basically i am wondering what you think of roosevelt, how he battled through physical care and going through the Great Depression and world war ii, do you think there was anything apart from loving the American People are china . He was always mindful of what the future would bring young people. Eleanor was greatly mindful of that and his there was newman johnson. Johnson became the head of the texas and why a. They had to have safety records and johnson became the most prominent and successful of the directors and a little roosevelt went to texas to see what he was doing and he would spend a night in a black college. He wanted to run for statewide office. It was a strictly segregated state, society. When johnson got the presidency, he did all sorts of things, the war on poverty, great society, education was something they passed, even legacies from Franklin Roosevelt and five times, not by myself but the historians, liked to talk to historians and David Axelrod was talking about the difficulty of this and i said to him something we should take comfort from, the fact that you were sustaining Franklin Roosevelts new deal. Opening the way to medical care and cant afford it. Arthur solicitor talked about cycles of American History and these changes, it will come back. Didnt go anywhere. I am thinking, which among other things suggest what was characterized, the extent to which you can say, to what extent his character is central, to what extent our condition is central . What they used to say. And and and so preoccupied with himself. To see the larger picture. Everybody runs for president. And would be crazy enough to want to have that job, it was impossible. The great ones live outside themselves. And even richard nixon, opening and the change of relations with the soviet union. And ultimately, in the vietnam war. There are naysayers in politics. It is an impossible job but this is the way historians judge them. Did you make the right choice, in the right direction. Johnson is a complicated guy put across so many significant advances, that civil rights bill, the greatest ending segregation of all places and public accommodation and at the same time couldnt let go of them and the path there and more americans died in that more than any other problem since world war 2. And anybody else, 620 died. Very interesting, i wish i could come back in 100 years to see what happened to the country. I told this to a group of 20yearold students, and they gasped. In the middle here. One of your predecessor biographers, james smith, focused on roosevelts lust for power as the driving force for him, you mentioned his tendency to manipulate and im reminded of the famous conversation between truman and eisenhower at the time of kennedys funeral when they both agreed which they really did with each other that roosevelt was the most coldblooded person he had ever dealt with. Did he talk about these elements of his character . Of course. You dont get to be president and govern this country without also being a sonofabitch. You got to be prepared to step on toes, the point is how open are you about it, how are you doing with these things in a political way, in a way it creates an impression of you, not just an impression of some of the others. The impossible job if you go back and look at the things people have said. George washington, subjected to centuries of the most john adams was half hermaphrodite, half man, half woman. Roosevelt, a demented crippled in a wheelchair. Harry truman said the white house was a prison. They all had another side. How did they express it . How did they deal with it . You are not going to have only 20s, they are combative but there are degrees and degrees and to be the way trump is, so openly combative and this seems to drive him so much he has got to outlast adversaries, something emotionally unsuited about the presidency, never should have had that office. Jihadi in july 1920, the columnist of the baltimore sun, lincoln, said someday the American People in their wisdom will put a narcissistic net into the white house. He was talking about harding. You were just talking about the hard side of Franklin Roosevelt. On the soft side, how important were his relationships with daisy and leland . He had daisy suckling, they love each other. In journals, publishers and newspapers, they were quite negative, commenting, press conference, sit at his desk, just told you by the end, got to run. I couldnt walk. I got to run. Such an affectionate relationship, did he have enemies . Tom dewey in 1944. He is a sonofabitch. I dont like him. Harry truman echoed that the gentleman has been patient against the wall. If you say fdr was planning to leave office after one year. Why did he pick harry truman who was considered a politician with whom he didnt share much information. They said of harry truman he was the second they had a fight between Henry Wallace on the left and jay burns on the right and accepted the proposition of somebody who was in the middle. Truman had not really offended anyone. He gained the cover of Time Magazine with these investigations, war profiteering and had a glimmer of popularity and in the shadow, happy to have that. Roosevelt told him next to nothing. If he lasted for a year i suspect that wouldnt change, the center of things and a measure of that situation to me, when they came to harry truman, with sam rayburn at the white house, you must go to the white house immediately, dont tell anybody, and took his hand and said you are now the president and being as decent a guy as he was, said to her mrs. Roosevelt is there anything i can do for you . She said is there anything i can do for you . You are the one in trouble now. These were different people. The part i just took. I grew up in the era of Franklin Roosevelts. How did people feel at that time . They adored him, worshiped him, the father of america and his dignity, his voice, not having the benefit of television and high tech stuff we have now. When he died, i felt i had lost as did everyone i knew had lost a grandfather, only 63. He had so adored, so idolized the same situation arose with president kennedy. In the spirit of patriotism, caring about america, how do you compare the two people, it was devotion, what was it about those two men, after the entire nation. So important, saw these men and leaders, some concern, the wellbeing of the entire nation but they were not held fast by special interests of any kind. And they agreed credibility, trust, they trusted them that they were on their side, told those two anecdotes but to the bay of pigs, owned up to the idea that it was his fault and was fooled, jumping up, the worse i do the higher numbers i go. The fact that he showed personal courage and in some ways, the kennedys so involved he was doing with his hands. Very good sense. Such a great question and when we have to end on. I thank you so much for being here. [applause] if you dont have it already i promise you you are going to love it. [inaudible conversations]