[music] okay. Welcome, everybody. My name is doug bradburn, on the founding director of the National Library for the study of George Washington at the beautiful mount vernon and delighted to welcome you again for a wonderful evening of conversation and history, and i also like to welcome the cspan audience out there who is recording us this evening. Great to have you back in the library. These evening book talks are special for a variety of reasons, because we get to bring exciting new historians to the eager community here, but also because its sponsored by ford, which has been a great donor to mount vernon for many, many years. As you ail know, mountain vernon ladys association does not take any government money. A completely private institution based on philanthropy and based on people coming to the estate so we depend on groups like the ford family and evidence to Mortar Company who supported mount vernon since henry ford gave the first fire engine to the estate to keep the mansion from burning down. Its an ongoing challenge and youre welcome to donate to our Fire Suppression efforts right now. Id like to welcome you all out here and before we begin the main event, i also want to mention some Upcoming Library programs, which we still have some tickets available. Great annual Martha Washington lecture featuring flora frasier and viera, excusing 18th century women as consumers on both sides of the atlantic. That will be lead by our serb senior curator here and the first of three Michelle Smith lectures coming up, featuring George Goodwin discussing bren Benjamin Franklin in london. I met him at the franklin house and he has an extremely large personality, and i think you will particularly enjoy him and his discovery of franklins life in london. Lets get to the main event right away. We are exceptionally pleased to have with us dr. Erica Armstrong Dunbar from the university of delware with us today. Might have seen her featured in the New York Times and on many npr programs. This where is she belongs, talking about an important subject received her ma and ph. D from Columbia University and was in the inaugural director of the program in africanamerican history at the Library Company of philadelphia should have called you the founding director. Thats the her first book, fragile freedom, africanamerican women and emancipation in the ante bellum city, published by yale, extremely wellregarded and important study of an understudied topic up to that point them perfect person to take on the challenge to recover the story of ona judge. Lets all give erica a big round of applause. [applause] good evening, everyone. Happy black history month. Here i am. So, first, let me make offer a few thank yous, of course to doug bradburn, who invited me. Really think that theres no other place that i should be giving this talk. Can you all see me . Im vertically challenged and im going to turn this lets see. See if this is better. Better . Yes. Okay. Id also like to state thank you thank steve and emily for mening me with arrangements to arrive here. Its been a very, very busy week. This book just came out on tuesday of last week. And so im an academic, and as doug said, my first book was published with Yale University press, and this book is more of a sort of crossover trade book for a larger, more general audience, and so its a very different experience. One that has been rewarding but different and im a little tired. So, forgive me if my voice comes in and out. Ive been talking more than usual. So, tonight is such a pleasure to be here to be really where the story of ona judges life began. Right . Its mount vernon, and what ill do tonight is to talk a little bit ill read a little bit, too, from the book, and give you a little context through some slides about here we are. Im in stereo. Yay. And to givation context about ona judges life and what i wanted to do with this book. 20 years ago i was doing research on my first book about africanamerican women in the north, and i came across an advertisement for a runaway, an enslaved person who had run from the president s house in philadelphia, may 1796. And i was sort of caught up looking through microfilm at old newspapers and but this made my pause, and i said, wait. Who is this person who ran away . She was named one judge in the advertise. I thought, wait a minute, i dont know this person. And that was troubling to me because this is my area of expertise. Im supposed to know all of this stuff and i had no idea who this ony judge was, and there was something that was very sort of compelling about this advertisement. Never sort of escaped me. And i said, you know, im going to come back to this important story. Im going to try and trace this woman. I need answers. So i finished the first book, and here i am, many years later. It was a lengthy process in attempting to recover the work of the life of ona judge. This is recovery work and for those of white house do specifically africanamerican early africanamerican history, doing this kind of work in archives where the evidence is slim, factual evidence often doesnt exist because people of color, women in particular, often remained outside of the archives. And so what i will say is that theres absolutely no way i could have written this book had i not written my first book. Thats my plug for graduate students and people who are really doing the work of academics. I needed agrounding in order to be able to write this book about a woman who is really just absolutely magnificent. When you read the book youll be blown away by her life. Now, many folks here in this room, and of course at mount vernan, this is no new story. Know about ona judge and youre among a small group of people i hope there are many more who know her. Thats the expectation. Want her name to become one of those sort of household names, like a frederick douglass, lake harriet tubman, because she runs away decades before they do. Right . So the title ill give you quick story get title never caught. This is one modify first choice knows title of the book, and i presented it to some people at the publisher, and they hate it. They said, gives away the story, erica. And i said, yeah, but so does 12 years a slave. Honestly, we understand. 12 years, going to end at some point. With never caught, this is really a history of how a woman who was a fugitive never found freedom. Never free. Simply was never caught. Think its a big distinction and one i wanted to make as i was trying to kind of dismantle what we think about slavery in the south and the north at a moment when the innings in is new. I think thats one of the other things that was really trying to do with this book, was to allow us to see what the early days of this new country looked like through the eyes of the enslaved. Onas life gives us that opportunity to look at early virginia, new york, pennsylvania, and New Hampshire. And we get to sort of follow her life and look at how this nation is changing, how its grappling with the issue of slavery, all of these very kind of central issues to this new nation, and this time were doing it through a young black woman who made the choice to run away. So, as i said ill read a bit. I will talk and well look at a few slides, and well walk together on this journey of onas life. Spring range rents therefore streets of philadelphia in 1796. Weather in the city of brotherly love was often fickle at this time of year, vacillating between extreme cold and oppressive heat. But rain was almost always appreciated in the nations capitol. It erased the putrid smells of rotting food, animal waste, and filth that permeated the cobblestone roads of this new nation. It reminded philadelphians that the long and punishing winter was behind them, spring rain cleansed the streets and souls of philadelphians. It ushered in optimism and hope and a feeling of rebirth, and in the n the midst of the promises of spring, ona judge, a young black, enslaved woman, received devastating news. She learned that she would leave philadelphia, city that had become her home. Judge would travel back to virginia and prepare herself to be bequeathed to her owners granddaughter. Today ill introduce one of most understudied fugitive slaves in america. The age of 22, judge stole herself from the washingtons, forcing the president to show a slave catching hand as. As a fugitive, judge would test the president s will and his reputation. The most important man in the nation, heralded with winning the american revolution, could not reclaim this enslaved woman. Ona judge did what very few others could do. She beat the president. Judge was never caught. Now, i know normally show this next slide. You dont need it because were here at mount vernon but this is when im on the road and doing my dog and pony show. This is one there are of course earlier images, but i always try to give this image so that people have an idea of what the Mansion House where she was for such a long period of her life, for a good 16 years. So of course you all we are here so you dont need this. But today i will introduce what im calling im calling her a new american hero, slave girl, raised rat mt. Vernon, who on exposed the ideas of freedom, was compelled to pursue it at any cost. This was a woman who found the courage to defy the president , the wit to find allies, to escape, to outnegotiate, to run, to survive. Her story at this point we can tell is really the only existing lengthy account of a fugitive once held by the washingtons, at least told from her mouth to interviewers. It is perhaps the only fugitive account from any slave in 18th 18th century virginia. Judges life exposes the sting of slavery, the drive of defiance. She guarded what would become sort of freedom for her every day of her life. Never regretting her decision to fight for what she believed to be her right. That was freedom. In 1789, we know that was as elected first president of the united states. Traveled to new york, the nations first capital, and he and Martha Washington would take with them seven slaves from mt. Very mt. Vernon this is a sketch of federal haul where president washington would take the oath of office in new york so he would take eventually martha would make her way up to new york shift was unhappy about the move and she made that known to everyone. But she went. And they took seven enslaved people with them from mt. Vernon, and ona judge was one of them. She would be taken from her mother, betty, and her other siblings, and im going to read a bit from the book. To give you an idea of what that moment must have been like. The young ona judge was far from an experienced traveler. The teenager knew only mt. Vernon and its surroundings, and had never traveled far from her family and loved ones. Forjudge, the move must hear been similar to dreaded auction block. Although she was not to be sold to a different owner she was forced to leave her family for an unfamiliar destination, hundreds of miles away. Judge would have no choice but to stifle the terror that she felt some to go on about the work of preparing to move, folding linens, packing Martha Washingtons dresses, and personal accessories, and helping with the grandchildren. These were all things that ona judge would be involved in. They were the tasks at hand and it wasnt her mace to complain or question. Judge had to remain strong and steady. If not for herself, then for her mistress, who appeared to be falling apart at the seams. Like judge, Martha Washington had no choice about the move to new york. Her life was at the direction of her husband, who was now the most powerful man in the country, mrs. Washington and ona judge may have shared similar concern, but of course only Martha Washington was allowed to express discontent. And sorrow. Martha washington was unhappy, and everyone knew it, including her frightened slaves. The president s nephew, robert lewis, would also soon be made aware of it when he arrived at the estate on may 14th. Things were in disarray, lewis who was washington razz secretary between 1788 and. 91 bass chosen to escort his aunt and her grandchildren to new york but was surprised and a bit concerned when he arrived to find a frenzyes and frequent tick scene. Lewis wrote, quote, everything appeared to be in confusion, end quote. The manifestation of mrs. Washingtons conflicting feelings. Robert lewis described the departure which finally took place on may 16, 1789, as an emotional moment for the slaves and the first lady, quote, after an early dinner and making all necessary arrange. S, and which we were greatly retarded, it brought to us 3 00 in the afternoon when we left mount v. This servants of the house and a number of the field negroes made their appearance to take leave of their mistress. Numbers of the poor wretcheds seemed greatly agitated. Much affected. My aunt equally so. Betty ona judges mother, must have one of the agitate slaves. She was lowes losing her daughter also losing her son austin who was one of the washingtons waiters. Austins wife, charlotte and their children, would have joined in the mourning. Betty watched her children leave mt. Vernon, a reminder of what little control slave mothers had over the lives of their children. I she found any comfort in that day, it would have been that brother and sister were traveling together. Austin was older and male and could look out for his younger sister. Still, betty knew that her relationship with her children would never be the same. Washingtons would travel to new york and would really their visit there was relatively brief. They would leave for philadelphia in november of 1790 when the site of the nations capitol changed again. Ona would go with the washingtons and she would be one of nine enslaved people who traveled to philadelphia. So were going to go head south, actually to philadelphia. Hmm. We dont have an image. See if we can go forward. Pretend you see the president s house. Which was a lithograph, an image of a lithograph from the president s house, which actually right now for those who are familiar with philadelphia, if you go to the liberty bell and constitutional hall, the house is actually right there. And ill tell you this is an aside. When i was watching kind of all the preelection coverage and there was a speech given by former president barack obama and hillary clinton, it was smack in the middle of this courtyard at independence hall, and im watching the visual with the crowds and what have you, and off to the right was where the actual president s house stood, and i thought, wow, here we are, im watching this moment, and off to the righthand side ona is still there. Just wont let me go follows me everywhere. February, 1796. Brought a palpable unease to the executive mansion in philadelphia. A thick tension prompted ona judge and her enslaved companions to tread lightly around george and math that washington. Enslaved men and women always moved about their days with caution, not knowing what events could sour or sweeten an owners mood. For slaves neglect same wall as their owner life could be akin to walk through fields imbedded with land mines. This smallest of marys, such as the extental breaking of a dish, or inconveniently timed bad weather, could alter the dissituation of an ore. Although the president did not earn the reputation as being a violent or physically punishing slave owner, head did on occasion lose his temper. Ona judge maneuvered through he daily tasks at the president s house with a smooth watchfulness, perhaps attending to Martha Washington with extra care as she helped her dress for the day. For seven years, judge had served her mistress well up north. She became martha a washingtons closest body slave. All 0 who knew the washingtons on a personal level were familiar with judge, for she often accompanied her mistress on social calls. Since moving to new york and then philadelphia, the first ladys life was filled with socializing and public events. So its important to realize this relationship between mistress and slave enslaved person, at least in terms of ona judge, was very intimate relationship. Not necessarily in the best of ways but ona was around Martha Washington constantly, helping her with the most intimate of responsibilities, dressing, bathing, combing hair, and she was around she heard everything that went on in the executive mansion. Judge understood her mistress. She knew just how much Martha Washington loved her grandchildren. She had outlived every single one of her children fathered by her first husband. Martha washington had no choice but to look to her grandchildren for hope and joint, and although she was only 27 years old when she married George Washington, their marriage never yielded offspring. After the death of her son, john, martha and George Washington welcomed two of his small children into their home, raising them up through adulthood and i think thats a really interesting thing to think about, the kind of intergenerational relationship or community that was actually there from the beginning with the first president. Hope we have a picture. We do. Judge must have witnessed the shock and concern of her owners after they read through the mail on february 6th. The president received a letter from eliza, his 19yearold stepgrandchild, until her grandparents of her intention to marry. A liza wrote of her engagement to thomas law, british businessman who came to america in 1794, and became involved in Land Development in and around the federal city. Law met eliza, who was 20 years his junior, and a romance turn into an engagement. Elizas father was deceased and in some ways George Washington stood in as one thief sort of appropriate surrogates to approve or reject the marriage proposal. The news must have sent the executive mansion into a tailspin. Although this was very personal family business, everyone who lived within the walls of the president s house knew exactly what was happening. Its interesting, when we read the letters john adams writes about this kind of interesting situation, this relationship that eliza is entering into. There were questions about who this thomas law was, he writes home about this situation. Neither george nor Martha Washington knew about the seriousness of the relationship between eliza and law, and there was much to be concerned about with this union. Law arrived in america with two of his three children. Both of whom were the offspring from a relationship with an indian woman. They were biracial. His biracial children and his age, most certainly, raised the eyebrows of the washingtons. Also concerned he might decide to go back to england and could take eliza with him. Ona judge watched her on the other hand feel their they through the dramatic events of february of 1796. Martha washingtons concerns must have turned to optimism because she began to publicly announce the upcoming mat mat mat the moany and bang 0 to become the bogey in the most positive way possible. Own gentleman judge had no idea that the acceptance of the major by both gorge and george and Martha Washington would begin the unraveling of her life. So, eliza married thomas law on march 21, 1796. And the marriage signaled the beginning of major changes for the washingtons and for their slaves. Judge most certaintily knew her time in philadelphia was limited. By the march wedding of eliza, close family knew that George Washington would not run again for president. This was no secret in the executive mansion, and eventually all of their lives would change once they return to mt. Vernon. The idea of reconnecting with loved ones in virginia must have given some of the slaves in the executive mansion reason to celebrate. But judge lived in the north for seven years. The thought of returning to mt. Vernon did not settle well. A return to mt. Vernon was a reminder to judge and her enslaved companions that they were considered the property of another person, and after living in a free northern city, this was a difficult concept to swallow. For ona judge, however, the uncertainty vanished after her fate was revealed, and i think its important to realize that ona judge comes to philadelphia as a teenager, she is 17 1617 years old, and spends these kind of formative years in philadelphia, watching free black philadelphia go. She watched Richard Alvin build mother bethel and saw free black men women selling soup and fruit on the streets. They were entrepreneurs and it wasnt necessarily easy, but she saw freedom. She could almost feel it, taste it, smell it. She would go to the circus, go to to theater. Things she would never have been able to do in virginia. And then with the marriage of eliza, she realizes that her fate, at at least her fate was revealed. This marriage changed life circumstances would cut judges residency in philadelphia short. Unlike the other slaves at the executive mansion, ona would not return to philadelphia from her annual summer sojourn to mt. Vernon. Judge would not be around to witness the president s final months in office. Martha washingtons deep concern for his granddaughter, trumped any relationship that she may have forged with judge. Sensing that eliza entered into a marriage for which she was unprepared, the first lady made a decision and of course the term first lady isnt used at this moment. Not used until later on in the 19th century but i use it as part of this narrative that ive offered. The first lady made a decision. That would help her granddaughter navigate through the transition of marriage. She would give ona judge to eliza custus. Although judge earned the top spot among Martha Washingtons personal slaves, there was no way for jon amass enough personal0 emotional capital to convince her owner to change her mind. Jungs fate was now in the hands of eliza custus law, woman who was approximately the same age, and was known for having a difficult, sometimes volatile temper. I show this image because it gives us an idea of elies sample she was a force to be reckoned with. Sometimes i think maybe she got a little bit of bad rap, but her family wrote about her temper, and this would have been something that ona judge was familiar with. A shift to the household of the irritable and volcanic eliza custis law which most likely doom judge to a life of poor treatment and uncertainty and she simply couldnt let that happen. Im going read another passage from the book. To give you an idea of what that moment was like for her. Judge knew what the future held should she not heed the advice of her free black associates. She supposed if she went back to virginia, she would never have the chance to escape. Once she learned that upon the decease of her master and mistress, some would become the property of a grad of theirs by the name of custis. She knew she had to flee. She imagined her work for the laws would begin immediately, not after the death of her owners, prompting a fierce clarity about her future and her dislike for eliza custis law. In her interview at the end of her life, she said, quote, she was determined never to be her slave. Her decision was made. She would risk everything to avoid the clutches of the new mrs. Law. Judge was well informed and knew that her decision to flee was far more than risky, but still, she was willing to face dogsniffing kidnappers and bounty hunters for the rest of her life. Yes, he fear was consuming, but so, too, was her anger. Judge could no longer stomach her enslavement, and it was the change in her ownership that pulled the trigger on judges fury. She had given everything to the washingtons. For 12 years, she had served her mistress faithfully, and now she was to be discard like the scraps of material she cut from Martha Washingtons dresses. Any false illusions she had clung to had evaporated, and judge knew that no matter how obedient or loyal she may have appeared to her owners, she would never be considered fully human. Her fidelity meant nothing to the washingtons. She was their property to be sold, mortgaged, or traded with whomever they wished. The beast that slept in every slap slaves soul was awakened, confronting a final with eliza law, coked the hunger for freedom out of the recesses of jungs mind, and now she was willing to fight for what she clearly believed to be her right, her decision to run was just the beginning of her liberation. The waiting was difficult. For nearly two ones judge had to calm her nerves and suppress her anger as allies completed the planning for her escape. She could not raise suspicions. So judge worked in tandem with the rest of the household as the made the necessary preparations for a lengthy trip back to mt. Vernon. Judge later stated, quote, whiles they were packing to go to virginia issue was packing to go. I didnt know where. For i knew that if i went back to virginia, i never should get my liberty. Judge kept her plans a secret, making certain not to share information with anyone who lived in the executive mansion. She knew that fearful or jealous slaves were on responsible for foiled fugitive escapes. She decided to rely on the assistance of free blacks, whosed outside of the walls of the president s home. Not only did ona judge have to pack her things to leave. She also had to determine when she would escape. Although the executive mansion possessed more slaves and servants than did most northern residences, judge was the first ladys preferred house slave, and had to be available at all times for whatever reason. There was only one duty from which she was exempt, meal preparation. The famed hercules and a kitchen staff prepared the meals, served to the president and the first family. Judge sometimes received a bit of free time during the afternoon meal and the evening supper. As other servants or slaves were assigned to serve the washingtons. The president sometimes entertained dinner guests, extending theosophies festivities in the evening and inviting guests to the parlor to enjoy wine, additional conversation. The only moment that judge could use to her advantage. When the moment arrived, she gathered her steely nerves and fled. On saturday, may 21st, 1796, ona judge slipped out of the executive mansion while the washingtons ate their supper. She disappeared into the Free Black Community of philadelphia. Although we have judge makes this decision to leave, i think one thing i want people to understand about the lives of fugitives is to remember that the plan to escape to leave, was almost always strategic and planned. It wasnt typically a whim or emotional, and in the case of ona judge we have this same thing in effect. Her escape would be careful, calculated. She knew the moment that she walked out of the president s mansion that her status as a trusted house slave for the most powerful American Family would immediately come to an end. No longer would jujube the favor ed slave of her mistress. Instead she would be a fugitive. On may 23, 17ed 6, frederick kit this household stewart to George Washington, played an add in n ad in the philadelphia gazette and after two disappearance, two newspapers, the dailies at ther, as well as the philadelphia georgia sed not the pennsylvania gazette. This is the moment i tell my students you cant believe everything you see on wikipedia because nor longest time the ad was attributed to the gazette. That was incorrect. It was a philadelphia gazettes and for a week they ran advertisements to attempt to recapture ona judge. In the philadelphia gazette, we have this ad that describes ona judge and announces to the world she defied one of the pruitt. From one ad, absconded from the household of the president over opportunity saturday afternoon, ona judge and i content she was called ony and unwritten about is a ony judge here at mt. Vern anyone in philadelphia and new york. Believe it was the dim minimum youtive of her name, like baloney, and i choose to call her ona, which is the name she went by at the end of her life. In this newspaper, only judge, a light mew lat to girl, with very black eyes and bushy black hair, of middle stature, slenter and delicately made, about 20 years of age, and the language changes a little bit in some of the advertisements. This one offers of course a 10 reward which is the cost of a barrel of flour at that time. Another sort of interesting thing to note is that this advertisement offers the reward and very clear they say, this 10 will be paid to anyone white or black. This is written in the first ads that appear. Subsequently that hawk was taken out which i thought was interesting. But clearly this was a play to the Free Black Community, who may have seen, witnessed or knew something about onas escape. The ad in the philadelphia gazette alerted slave judgers to he possible escape route, the delware river inch his advertisement kit sent a strong warning to anyone who worked on the docks of philadelphias busy port, stating, quote, but as she may attempt to escape by water, all matters of vessels are cautioned against admitting her into them. Kits assumptions were correct. For judge did escape the city by boat. A combination of preparation, assistance from the black community, steely nerves, pushed the trusted enslaved woman to begin her life anew as a fugitive and its at this point in the book where i sort of move into this transition from ona judge as an enslaved woman in virginia and then new york and philadelphia, to becoming a fugitive. In her life changes instantly, the moment she walks out of that door. It begins on her voyage to New Hampshire. Ill read just a bit. The crashing waves of the Atlantic Ocean hurled saddles and candles from one side of the storage hold to another. The smell of molasses and coffee was thick, nauseating passengers who were unaccustomed to sailing with bold on his frequent trips between philadelphia, new york, and portssmith. Transportation in the 18th 18th century was never easy. Traveling by sea could be dangerous. Old, poorly inspected ships, slipped in and out of cities we torn sails and weathered caulk, hoping to make it to the next port without incident. Ona judge had never been sail on such a ship, single masted sloop that could carry into 75 people, depending on the side of the cargo. These schlissels were key signed to haul freight from one coastal town to the next, but ship captains earned extra money by allowing passengers to ride along. Any seafairing voyage that judge might have taken with the washingtons would have been close to enjoyable. Short river crossings, and relatively luxurious vessels are what judge had come to know, but she had turn her back on all of that. Now on board the nancy, ship was minimal, space was minimal, and travelers lodged themselves wherever there was rom. The fugitive found herself sleeping in tight quarters but this time with strangers, some who were traveling them to visit with family and friends, and others who, like judge, were leaving behind a difficult past for the possibilities of a new future. In portsmith. The unsettled sea likely forced her sum to turn sommer salts. The wind would cal their fleshed and sweaty forehead, offering tear relief from sea sakeness. Sea sickness other, passengers suffered, hanging their body over the side of the sloop, release thing content of their stomachs into the atlantic. Every morning when the sun lifted, lifted itself above the horizon, judge would have looked out across the ocean, thankful to have survived another day away from her owners but still she was terrified. For five days judge contained her fear. She could not appear too nervous, as passengers were already throwing quick and curious glances towards the lightskinned black woman who traveled alone. She knew that they washingtons were looking for her, and that by now her name and a bounty probably appeared in many of the philadelphia newspapers. She wondered how much of a reward was attached to her recapture. A thought that sent her eyes to scan the strangers on boardment surely one of the washington agents made it to the ship before it left dock street. But she wouldnt know this for certain until the nancy reached New Hampshire. The beautiful expensive clogging she wore to serve the washington was packed away, and instead judge would have addressed in inconspicuous clothing. She was a hunted woman and would try to pass not for white but as a free black northern woman. Ona would have to fight to stay free. The washingtons would pursue her for years, up until really three months before the president died. So for years, ona had to try and figure out how to remain never caught. See if we have i want to show a few of the kind of archival tidbits i was able to pull while i was working on this project for nine years. The researching and writing took almost a decade, and during my process of researching, i kind of span this moment where digitization was just starting, so newspapers thank goodness are judge advertized now and sped things up as we went along but this is one of the newspapers i looked through early on in my project and this is another one of those jump for joy moments when grew fine what youre looking for in the archives and this is a an announcement, marriage announcement in this town, mr. John stage to miss oney judge, spelled driftly. What find so incredible about this a couple of things. One, this is january of 17 7. So she hasnt been gone but, what, seven months, eight months or so and in that time she is able to find a husband, and not only did she find a husband, but she didnt go by an alias. When she reported got married and had to record to the paper about this marriage. Now, this is also another note for grad students and schools are who happen about digitization, just to see this image is important, right . We see this is a sort of act of her life, her resistance maybe, but if you pull out the whole page of the newspaper of course i dont have that slide here but the front page of the newspaper was George Washingtons announcement to the fair people of New Hampshire, thanking them for being good citizens as he prepared to depart, and so what is hilarious to me we have George Washington making this great statement to the fair people of New Hampshire, and next to its the article about the slaving running away. Gives you a sense nor kind of resistance we see from ona judge, she meant to be that much of a certain of resisting person, we dont know. Own that judge would make here way to freedom or relative freedom. She would live out her days in and around greenwood, New Hampshire, and she evaded washingtons slave catching acquaintances for the entirety of her life. She managed to build a family for herself. She married, she had children, she work as a domestic to the end of her days. And although she endured the trials of poverty and fugitive status until her death, judge moved forward. Her life was a difficult one but freedom was worth it. Ill show you my last slide of the evening. Is a little bit of one of the first interviews that ona judge grants. Im not going to tell you everything about New Hampshire because you have to buy the book and read the book. I dont want to give everything away but remember the book is called never caught so we know theres going to be some tension and drama while she is in New Hampshire. This article that came from the granite freeman, an abolitionist newspaper, appeared in may of 1845. And it was at this point ona judge was in her early to mid70s. And she grant an interview. And i wouldnt necessarily call ona judge an abolitionist. Im not sure she saw herself as such. She simply was asked to tell her story, and you know, one thing ive noticed is a spent time with my own mother and ive spend time with my grandparents, the older you get, the more likely you for say what is exactly on your mind. Without much filter. I think we have bit of that here with ona judges interviews. She explains why she ran away, how she ran away, and why it was important, but also that she didnt regret it. Even though her life was terribly difficult, she never regret it. She would spend nearly 50 years as a fugitive. And the children that she had were also fugitives because slavery followed the Apron Strings of the mother. So, the stakes were even higher once ona went to New Hampshire and attempted to be to remain never caught. For 50 years she was a fugitive in hiding, but im certain that she never wanted to be forgotten. With the publication of this book, everyone will now know her name. Thank you. [applause] i think were going to do some q a and we have two microphone on either side of the room. Thank you for a its inning talk. Did you get any oral histories . Good question about descendents and oral histories. So, how die say this without giving away part of the story achievement send dents directly related to ona judge dont exist, but there are descendents connected to her half siblings, and theres been some corporations between the library and some correspondence between the lie area and some folks who claim do be descendents. I actually purposely chose not to go to bark up that tree, although maybe thats a second project. I dont know. What we do have is a record of some of her half siblings, and what happens to them once ona leaves, and one of her sir lings, sister, who is name was philadelphia, is that i know, interesting. So philadelphias actually forced to take onas place and she goes to work for eliza custis law and is you have to buy the book. Dont want to tell you everything. So theres a chapter, an epilogue at the end that explains i think sort of poignantly how we have two examples of women in the early 19th century who were trying to find freedom. We have ona doing it as fugitive, and as youll see in the book we have her sister attempting to do it in other ways. So it gets us back to this issue of women attempting to fight for their freedom, but there is a story there, philadelphia marries a man named glay and becomes part of a relatively wellknown family in washington. And ill just go ahead and tell you that philadelphia does find her freedom. Her freedom. Can you elaborate on the Free Black Community in philadelphia that the ways they might have been planning for to assist her. A great question about the philadelphia the community of free blacks in philadelphia and how they came to her aid. I think one of the important things about this story, this history, is that it highlights the importance of networks, and in particular of communities, free people of color. Philadelphia in the 1790s was the epicenter of free black life. It outpaced new york, gradual the gradual end of slavery began in 1780 in pennsylvania with the gradual abolitional that stated you could only be held as slave up to 28 years, and we saw elongation of that in some instances bought really where ona judge lived was very close to many free blacks and so we have thousands of free blacks withing in and around living in and around philadelphia. One thing that is important to know is that ona judge never names names, and she cant, right . She cant do that for fear of reprisals, that those who helped her, they broke the federal law. They could be imprisoned or fined, and so she just simply referred to them as free people of color, or the colored people of philadelphia. A couple of the stories, including myself a couple of historians, including myself, believe that richard allen, known for creation of mother bethel amn philadelphia was likely involved in some way or another in her escape. He was known for assisting fugitives, and interestingly enough in the account books, held at the philadelphia executive mansion, a week before ona runs off, its noted that she was given money to buy new shoes. Smart. Fright good to runaway, you need new shoes. One thing to remember is that richard allen, he was a chimney sweep. Served he household of the president. Would clean out the chimneys there. Perhaps they interacted. Were not certain. He also had a shoe shop in his home. He was a sort of jack of all trades, and so some of us, including rich newman, who wrote the biography on richard allen, believed there was some kind of connection between her and richard allen, but we also see outside of philadelphia, outside of seeing this growing free black population who clearly helped her the only person she names is john bolds, shipmaster, and i was able to because she named his name she made it very clear in her interview she as only naming his name because she knew he was deceased so he wouldnt get the trouble. But it was very clear that following the shift reports that pulled into the port of philadelphia, his ship was in philadelphia at exactly the time that ona judge ran away and made it back to forthsmouth the beginning of judge, i figured out the shipped was called the nancy by looking at ship advertise. So clearly at the Free Black Community was involved with her and with her fugitive her becoming a fugitive. The same holds true in New Hampshire, and she is very clear she gets help and assistance from the free black population in New Hampshire. Now, the population was tiny, so when she arrived in portsmouth there are more black people in mt. Vernon than portsmouth. Still may be. Its lovely city. Ive spent a lot of time there absolutely gore gorgeous, but i thought, why portsmouth . She couldnt go to new york, known entity, a face was recognizable perhaps the same truce for boston. She said she didnt know in her interviews where she bass going, its like the people who helped her, didnt help her for fear of problems that perhaps she would tell the plan, perhaps she would be found out. So he actually doesnt know where she is going until she disembarks. And once she gets to New Hampshire, she finds a Free Black Community there who harbors her, who gives her housing and food and helps her find work, and really keeps her safer every time one of washingtons agents or family members came after her, they always sheltered her, harbored her, hid her, and so i think the other part of what this book does is show the importance of a Free Black Community in the end of the 18th and early 19th 19th century. Few years ago i read a wonderful Childrens Book to my daughter about oney judge. Were you part of the project . No. I know diane turner has written a Childrens Book. I wasnt part of that but i know her work, and im glad those i think theyre two Children Books about ona judge, and now theres some interest about a kind of young adult version so im working on that. Stay tuned. In the slide you have up there right now, it says oops. You did happen says something to effect she didnt remember what year it was . Im surprised at that you. Think it would be burned in her memory. Yeah. I think it would be burned in ones memory but here ill let you sneak in and ill just talk louder. I think we also have to think about the importance of history and memory and what especially an interview at the end of ones life, although that was she gave a pretty good details, she does say, look, i cant remember the year, and i dont even think thats too difficult thank you. I dont think thats too difficult to sort of wrap our minds around because i know personally i cant remember what happened last week, let alone what year things happened in. I think she wanted to provide an interview that was as credible as possible but she didnt lie. Some way is kind of appreciate she doesnt. She says, i cant remember. I dont know, and i think about that, 50 years as a fugitive, at a time when as a fugitive and, remember, she could not read or write. She doesnt become literate until the end of her life. So i think its possible, very possible, that the doesnt remember, and so i appreciate the honesty. Did the pursuit of ona judge continue after the washington passed away . So, she says no. She has never stated that anyone else from marthas side of the family came after her. When we think we know that Martha Washington in her will, the estate was transferred to her grandchildren so technically ona judge would have belonged to one of them. I looked through the inventory of the enslaved for all those grandchildren. She is not noted anywhere on those lists, and in some ways, i kind of think they just sort of gave up, but its a sort of fascinating story because her grandchildren really sort of moved in separate ways about slavery. We know George Washington park custis becomes involved in the american colonialization sew, so it elizas slaves are emancipated. So its almost like a different story that we move into in the 19th century. Its sort of captures a transition between the end of the 18th and the early 19th 19th century. I i found no record of it and ona did not mention the possibility of being an attempted capture by any of the grandchildren. So, i think thats an important point, but she was pursued for at least three years. Right . We know that from the moment that she runs away, until the death of George Washington, she is pursued. And so one of the things i think we have to remember is even though there wasnt a sort of physical attempt to capture her, she knew she was still their property, and as long as slavery existed in the united states, she was never not she was always at risk. So i do think its important to note that the grandchildren did not teen go after her. Maybe a document somewhere will tell me a different story, and if that happens, im excited, not worried. But she clearly always knew that she was a fugitive and that was a fear that rang true to her and her children. Erica, really good work you have done here. Have question for you. So, as ona give any insight into jeb George Washingtons planning of the city, dealing with the layout based on the society and the arrest . Any information that would i wish she had. Wish. But she didnt. We have really just two interviews from her, and the information that she gives about washington George Washington and Martha Washington really revolved around religion because it was clear that she became very ona became very religious during her life as a fugitive. Went to church. There she learned she became literal. Were not certain if she could write or not but at least could read. She talked more about religion she talked about the desire to not go to the granddaughter. She talked about the fact she never regretted this decision, but she didnt give us the kind of intricacies of what was going on, and i find that kind of fascinating because think about it. She lived with them for so long. She knew everything right . She was. There are she witnessed the difficult moments, but she never went there. She didnt give up that kind of personal information. She takes a few jabs at the washingtons, but give her a break. She was a slave. She was a fugitive. She has a right to put in some jabs. She questioned whether or not George Washington was really religious. She said i never really saw him pray. He went to church but didnt pray. So i think thats a different kind of understanding about religion from her viewpoint. But she doesnt give us those intricacies but i talk about banninger as a way to give context what their early era of the out looked like, and hes part of that. Looked like and he is part of that. I find it interesting that you started your research on about the announcement, that you really werent looking for at the time, and then you hit the jackpot by finding the interview, and i was wondering, was that part of your long process when you did that or what led you to find the report of the interview . Yeah. That is a jackpot. I could as an historian i think i can say that i dont know if id call it jackpot. I feel like this kind of recovery work is so important, and to have this story out for a large audience is the same. I didnt necessarily know dishll be honest here, doing it on cspan, but ill be honest here. I did not know if would actually be able to find enough to write a book about ona. There were Childrens Books. There was maybe there was a chapter here or there in a couple of important biographies on washington but no work about her. I thought, why there is nothing on her . Thats kind of crazy. And then i realized how long it took to do this research and i knew why there was nothing, no kind of man know graph dedicated to manograph because dedicated to her because the materials were slim. I couldnt have done this ahead not written a fragile freedom which caught me everything about early philadelphia and new york and sort of allowed know ground this book in those communities of free people, in the kind of atmosphere of the streets and also what slavery looked like in philadelphia and in new york and then, of course, portsmouth, so, at first i didnt know if i would be able to do write a whole book, and then as time kept moving, i realized, i can, and she deserves it. What can you tell us about anyones husband and i think i noticed in the wed eight nounsment that the last name texas her last name was spelled with a g at the beginning rather than a j. I wondered whether that was an attempt to maintain some anonymity and secrecy. The question was about her husband, jack, who went by john staines. Sometimes. He was a free black man. He was a sailor, a seaman, and that was a very sort of typical Employment Opportunity for black men, because opportunities were few and far between, black men typically had to look to the seas to earn a living, and it was sometimes it was spore rattic money but you would get all your money at once and that was the jackpot moment and brought home your earnings. At very dangerous work. The minute you left ports mouth or philadelphia or what have you and sailed to other locations you freedom was always in jeopardy. So to think ona knew she was marrying a sailor and knew he would be away for long periods of time. So that is kind of protection that many looked for, ate least through marriage in terms of having a male a husband or spouse who could help, especially a free person, wasnt always at play for ona. She spent a lot of time alone, at first when i was working on the book, there were some notes he kind of disappeared from her family, like, he just kind of fell off the face of the earth and so it took me a long time trying to track down what happened, and so i didnt bring an image of this but i have moment when i found a death notice for him in the New Hampshire gazette, and it said, jack staines, man of color died this day. First i wondered did he die at sea . Did he leave ona judge . Marital tension made him run off . And we know she is a lone after 1804. Why is that . That little death announcement the fact they offered one for him as a black man was also significant. So, i was able to find that piece that together about him. I dont know anything about his beginnings. I just knew that he was free black man, he married own narks they had children and that their marriage was relatively short before he died, and once again, kind of leaving ona to fend for herself in many ways. I wish this could be a story writ i would trump fant its triumphant na that she is never caught, budget life was really very difficult it and was the same way for ona as it was for many of the free and enslaved and fugitives who were living in New Hampshire. Were passing the mic down. Thank you for all this wonderful information. My question is, as a fugitive, was there any physical description of her . Yes. So, there were actually, aside from the advertisement, we gate description of her as young woman. She was be 22 when he runs off, and it kind of confirms what we think what i know about her background and described her as lighter complected with bushy hair. Later on there were several accounts by local folks in ports mouth who wrote their kind of recollections of life, and she made it she was eventually she becomes known as, oh, yeah, the slave who ranway from washington. So people would come to the tot canal where she lived, and the cottage where she lived and he was pretty poverty strucken and sometimes theyd give hear dollar and should would tell her stories. I seen he vibe as very light complected, almost white to copper colored. So there are descriptions about her. None about her children but about her so we do have an idea of course of no image, but once again, as a fugitive, you wouldnt want people no necessarily know what you look like or keep talking about it. Could we get one more . One in the back. Thank you. We just this past week, fortunate enough to go to the black history museum, and while we spent the afternoon, only made through a few floors. You need sneakers. If we go back will there be any mention of ona judge . So, i went and gave a talk at the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture last week when we book came out. Was there was but no there isnt. Except for that i went and gave a talk, and so the exhibit can change and maybe that will happen, but they definite one thing thats great is that theyre carrying the book in the book store, so it night not be in the exhibit but you can at least buy the book in the book store. I think that has to do with a lack of the material culture connected to ona because as i said before, she was a fugitive, left very little behind in terms of a trace, whereas if you go that magnificent human, theres Harriet Tubmans shawl, silk shawl. Nat turners bible. So we have these remnant from other famous enslaved people but nothing in the way of material culture that can be produced. I will say theres an exhibit here made it happen. Without the material culture piece, theres definitely an engagement with ona judge. She is represented. So hopefully that will make it that grand building in d. C. Eric car thank you so much. Lets get a round of applause. [applause] well require her to stay and sign everybodys book. Youll buy multiple copies. I do appreciate at what you said about the exhibit here. When we had the slavery conference, it had just been open a week and i was very curious to see how the scholars would respond to it, and you want to say anything else . I know we have some of the people involved in the exhibit. The exhibit i was one of this folks who showed up in october at the conference. Its a stunning exhibit, first visually, and a lot packed in, and i think its sort of signals a moment for mt. Vernon that is present. Slavery is a difficult topic, and to throw yourself into it and connect the first president with the contradictions, the hypocrisy and looking at him as man and his idea changing about slavery over time. Im super appreciative that definitely makes it into the exhibit. So, ive actually only heard sort of positive comments about the exhibit and if you havent seen it, you definitely should, and ona is there. Ona is there. Thank you so much. Give another big round of plus. [applause] if you need a chair. Thank you, cspan. Good night, everybody. You can buy books outside the door there. All right. [inaudible conversations] for nearly 20. In depth has featured the best known nonfiction writers for live conversations about their works. This year, as special project, were featuring best selling fiction writers. In depth fiction edition. Our First Program is on sunday, the author of several National Security thrillers including a littles of innocence, body of lies, blood money, and the quantum spy. The special series fiction edition with author david ignatius, sunday, live from noon to 3 00 p. M. Eastern on booktv on cspan2. History professors and authors participate in the annual meeting of the american historical association. Live coverage begins friday at 8 30 a. M. Eastern on cspan3. On cspan 2 a Panel Discussions analyze the political protests in iran and the future of the country. Well hear from the found over iran watch, live from the Brookings Institution at account 30. A eastern and on cspan the Washington Center hosts a seminar examine issues including foreign policy, counterterrorism and relation between the press and the white house. Live coverage targeting at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan. You can follow all theo vents live online at cspan. Org or use the free cspan radio app. Wards journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up friday morning, we talk about the prospect for entitlement reform which includes medicare, medicaid and welfare. Politico reporter will join us. And then a roundtable entitle emt reform with james from the American Enterprise institute and elizabeth from the center forme