Transcripts For CSPAN2 Space Exploration 20171114

Thank you, mister chairman. Let me introduce our witnesses. First witness today is Mister William gerstenmaier, associate administrator at nasa. William gerstenmaier began his nasa career in 1977 performing Aeronautical Research and he has managed nasas human spaceflight portfolio since 2011, received a bachelors of science aeronautical engineering from Purdue University and a masters of science in Mechanical Engineering from university of toledo. Our second witness today is Sandra Sandra magnus, executive director of astronautics. In addition to her role there, Sandra Magnus is a former and nasa astronaut and prior to that worked as a practicing engineer in the aerospace industry. Sandra magnus received a degree in physics as well as a masters degree in Electrical Engineering from Missouri University of science and technology. She also earned a phd from the school of material science and engineering at georgia tech and now recognize William Gerstenmaier for five minutes to present his testimony. We are living in an amazing time in human spaceflight business and our International Partners have crewmembers living aboard the International Space station for more than 17 consecutive years. Most High School Students today have only known a time when humans are living and working in space. We are using the space station to expose the Broader Community beyond the Current Space industry to the benefits of using microgravity as an environment to develop new system for techniques and use on the earth, these researchers have never seen the benefits of space through the product and processes, the space station is becoming a place for business to expand, grow and gain competitive advantage over companies not doing research in space. Justice having crews in space is accepted, business operating in space will become normal and acceptable. Nasa has bought services from two company that is adding a third for the process of acquiring services certifying two new systems to transport crews to the International Space station and manufacturing and certifying assistance. Partners in low earth orbit are building strong commercial space industry and allows us to focus on deep Space Exploration. Which brings us to the subject of todays hearing, exploration systems development. The space launch system rocket, the orion deep space counseling European Service module and ground programs undergoing manufacturing and certification in preparation for their first integrated flight. There is more human spaceflight hardware in production today than at any time in the United States since apollo. As a nation we are Building Three different crew vehicles, or ryan, star liner and dragon, one for deep space, two for low earth orbit. Getting to this point was that easy and there are still challenges but we all need to pause and reflect on this amazing time. As we pursue human exploration further into the solar system, our exploration teams are building more than a rocket and a spacecraft for a single flight. We are building a flexible, sustainable system that will be used for decades to come. With this approach we can incrementally upgrade and enhance our exploration systems to accomplish a variety of missions, crewed and on crude in the face and we are building a System Design with modern manufacturing techniques for lower production costs than previous designs. The work performed in support of sls and orion has applications to other programs in aerospace, for example hundreds of requests for information have been transferred from orion to the commercial spacecraft in development for low earth orbit. We work on self reaction frictions through welding developed for sls will have application beyond as well as 2 other launch vehicles in development. It is the proper role of government to develop capabilities for use by all. Hardware to support the multiple flights was developed, three orion crew models, one structural test article, one flowing during exploration flight test one and current flight article have all been billed for orion, four major testbeds of been completed at marshall, the engines testing, structural testing completed and marshall, the vertical is that we building at ksc, the launchpad is nearing completion. All rs 25 engines and controllers are ready for flight, 17 parachute Development Tests are complete, four qualification parachute tests are complete with four more open. Data from these parachutists are helping commercial crew partners with their tests also. The amount of work completed today for the deep Space Exploration systems is large and documented in my written testimony. Further, this Government Investment in sls and orion is benefiting all. We need to be careful and not focus on a single launch date projection but rather take time to examine quality, quantity and future benefit of the work completed. This examination will reveal the value of the work completed to the nation. Nasa has carefully reviewed the work remaining to launch including certification and while this review shows a launch date of june 2020 as possible, the agency has chosen to manager december 2019 lunch. This earlier launch date is reasonable and challenges teams to stay focused on tasks without creating undue pressure. Furthermore nasa is taking additional steps to reduce schedule risk for both known and unknown issues and protect for the earliest possible launch date. The cost for em one even with the june date remain with the 15 limit for sls and slightly above ground systems operations. Exploration mission 2 orion cost and schedule and not adversely affected by the m1 schedule and as discussed earlier the work completed by sls orion shows outstanding progress, welcome your questions and thank you for this opportunity to discuss the amazing work accomplished by the men and women of nasa and the contractor partner teams, thank you. Now i recognize doctor magnus for five minutes for testimony. Distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to address you today. The Development System of the space launch system and orion crew vehicle are major milestones for the nations Space Program and i do not understate their importance but i would like to address the larger view related to the current Human Spaceflight Program and its progress and direction. The idea of what is possible in space has been in transition over the last decade when talking with the public i use a model to describe the ecosystem that is todays Human Spaceflight Program. I refer you to the figure on the tv monitor and have you imagine a bubble or balloon centered on the earth will be expanding, that expanding surface represents the expansion of human activities since the apollo era for the last 40 years, the surface of that bubble has expanded only to low earth orbit in an initial phase and this remains. During this period the government was the driving force behind the expansion of human activity in space and is led to Human Technology and management operations in this environment, private industry is interested in engaging in this open space. As commercial activities matured create the foundation on which can expand beyond low earth orbit. Expansion will be driven by government and investments. And in low earth orbit nasa and the Government Free to develop beyond in lunar space. Two key questions, what are the technology, knowledge and experiences the government wants to have available for broad dissemination to industries 50 years from now and what are the capabilities and Services Government and private industry driven by their own motives are interested in developing can sustain viable spacebased businesses after leveraging initial Government Investment. The core concept inherent in the model and underscored by these questions is there is a need for Government Investment at the leading edge of exploration during the initial phase and the fact that industry will sooner or later we the benefit of that Government Investment to create and establish new capabilities in the development phase. I might comment the normalization phase we are not ready for yet in human spaceflight but we see that happening over the last decade and a satellite industry where there are independent economic spheres active with the government as a customer, the government still does its own or its own purposes so you can add that with a twisty human spaceflight, not ready for that space yet. This is a dynamic unfolding in human spaceflight as i mentioned. The model i discussed is a powerful one and if it is employed strategically, it brings me to the important point and this is one you have heard many times and i dont think you disagree, the United States needs a comprehensive National Space strategy. It is imperative we commit as a nation with continuity of purpose for the longterm. It is the nature of the Space Business that takes time, patience to make advancements, the National Space council provides an opportunity to create this integrated approach. A committed longterm strategy is necessary but not enough to ensure the success of the us Space Program. To be effective sufficient resources need to be allocated to implement the plan. This is challenged nasa in the past and continues today. When i joined the agency in 1996 nasa received 7 10 of a penny for every dollar. Today the agency receives 5 10 of a penny for every tax dollar. This despite the fact the number, breadth and complexity of programs has increased. Fundamentally nasa is constrained by limits to control on the expense side of the budget and limited freedom to adjust over either facilities also workforce and in some cases management around the agency. To execute a longterm strategic us Space Program in a constrained budget environment nasa must be given the ability to make decisions and take action in these areas. Equally important to the adequate resources, developing space hardware is complex and challenging as you heard today. The program can absorb more engineering decisions knowing the result will be lower operational costs at net savings. The current budgeting process and lack of stable budgetary environment permits this brand of approach to be used. The transition that is occurring for how humans engage in space is a goal for decades lose our nation was built on exploration, expansion and Economic Development from the arrival of the first immigrants and settlers to westward expansion across the continent, we have faced challenges, forged new paths can come to new obstacles, as we expand into space im confident we can tap into the same spirit and energy. Thank you for the opportunity to address this body and your continued support for our nations Space Program. I look forward to any questions you may have. I now recognize, i appreciate the witnesss testimony. The chair recognizes himself are questions. I want to thank you both. I was running late this morning it didnt have a chance to see you before the hearing started so great to have you here. One of the primary purposes of the nasa transition authorization act of 2017 was continuity of purpose. Expressing the importance of staying the course on Program Development so as not to delay american Space Exploration any longer. Can each of you discuss continuity of purpose and how you balance that against good Program Management and discipline . We start with William Gerstenmaier. It is important we have a common vision of what we are doing as we move forward so we can build hardware and systems to support that vision and we have done that with sls and orion. We build a system that allows us to move human presence into the solar system so the orion capsule has applications around the moon, can support activities on the moon, litter activities, it can also support Development Beyond the earth moon system, same with sls, the rocket is designed to be a heavylift launch capability, it can support Human Missions around the moon and to be critical for Mars Missions and can serve a strong role for science victory like the euro but mission, reduce transit time by 50 to the outer planets so we have tried to build pieces of key infrastructure that enables the vision and allows us to fit within this architecture and framework we have been given but keeping constancy of purpose or general direction moving forward is extremely important to us. Starting and stopping is very difficult in our industry. Sandra magnus. I would like to echo that, starting and stopping in our industry is not healthy. We saw that with the end of the Shuttle Program when we lost a lot of our corporate knowledge, we will see that when we start launching again, we will have to relearn the lessons we already learned for the continuity is important. As a nation we have a short Attention Span and we hurt ourselves. There were a lot of programs nasa had to cancel over the years. In the apollo era the dedication and commitment over a decade and longer to commit and execute the program is what you need in the human spaceflight, you need a 10 year, 15 year, 20 her program and stick to it. It is exciting is that the committee is interested in this topic, the oversight is important to keep people focused, that is an important key as well, it takes the whole community but you have to be able to stick to this program and funds it appropriately so Intelligent Decisions can be made to do the trade off. Thank you very much. Delay in the first launch of an uncrude space launch system until no earlier than december 2019 impact the scheduled launch date of a crude launch sls, nasas internal date is managing as well as a date it has formally committed to. Either of these dates now change . In terms of Exploration Mission two, so far the scheduled delays even if Exploration Mission one went all the way to june it doesnt really impacts where we are with em 2. Theres a constrained the mobile launch platform in florida, the facility the rocket launches off of needs to be modified between the first flight and the second flight to allow the exploration upper stage and theres a 33 month amount of time needed for that upgrade of the mobile launch so that keeps em one and em 2 tied together but now the slips we have seen dont impact where we can launch the first crude flight at this point but we need to be careful, watch for that and potentially discuss if it is advantageous to have another mobile launch are available to avoid the tie between em one in 2 but that is the current thinking. Anything to add to that . How will a slip in the first launch impact the cost of the program . Surprising to some that the overall cost hasnt changed that much. What we have done is we are building more than one single flight. As work is completed on the first launch and the first flight the network completed that flight to be set to the side and the teams can start working on the next element so in fact you have multiple pieces of hardware inflow for the multiple missions. Okay. How will a delay in the first on crude launch of the space launch System Impact a potential launch for the Europa Mission . There is no impact, we can support whatever the Science Mission director needs for that mission, whether it occurs after the first or second flight to meet their needs. I have several more questions but we will go on to the gentleman from california. Sandra magnus come in your Opening Statement you talked about the importance of a Strategic Vision over a long period and we stopped that when president kennedy challenged us in the 1960s to the man on the moon. My colleague from colorado probably does have a sticker that says mars by 2033. We ought to commit to putting a woman on mars by 2033. It does give the public a sense of what we are working towards. That perspective, thinking about sls and orion, the Lunar Mission etc. Gives us a chance to think about it in the context of if we are going to the moon how to that help us think about how we are going to take the next step. In that context, thinking about em one in the context of going to deeper space. I am sensing as we do the em one mission we are learning a lot, reestablishing supply chains, reestablishing the work force and talent base that will make em 2 easier. Is that correct . Definitely. The first em one flight is the test of the vehicle and systems and hardware to make sure they are operating to the levels they need to be when we put crew on board. As you see this movement outward, we go to the man so we can return if something goes wrong, on the station we can be back in an hour and a half. When we go to mars we are committed for multiple months. You see a natural progression taking more risk, learning to operate in a more challenging environment and as you operate in a more challenging environment you need systems that can support operating in that environment so it is a natural steppingstone and movement as we use the moon as a proving ground, Training Ground where we can build concepts, processes, procedures and hardware that allows us to go to the mars Class Missions in the future. As we move on to em 2 and said a crew up are we also conceptually thinking about em 3 . Yes. We are building continually to challenge what we can do. The big advantage of the space launch system is we cannot only carry crew but also a substantial cargo with the crew so we can carry habitation piece with us on em 3 and the crew can go into the habitation module and begin a crew tended presence around the moon which is starting to break at tie back to the home planet and getting us ready to move into deep space so you can see the natural progression where each Mission Builds on the past mission and take stronger challenges, puts the team where we gain experience and what we learn from earlier missions and the next mission so each Mission Builds on its own. The slide you presented you also show the private commercial sector following behind so can you describe how you see private and International Community following behind as the government starts to push further and further, the private sector and International Community can continue to support that. That is back to the idea of a National Comprehensive strategy because what you would ideally do is figure out what are the technologies and capabilities you want to invest in from the government viewpoint so the knowledge and pieces of technology are available for everybody and what are the things that are more mature you could encourage companies to be interested in developing and from a National Viewpoint as well when you think of the International Peace what are those technologies and capabilities that we want to take the lead in . Do we want to be the transport experts, focus on robotics, understanding the concept of those priorities establish how to Bring National partners in and help companies establish leverage they need to build their businesses so you have to start with the big picture view that has to be more governmentwide and nationally focused. Prior Committee Hearings thinking about this when we about a return to the moon, i can visualize a day where nasa is focused on the Science Mission, they may look at various launch vehicles that are available in the commercial market as opposed to building their own launch vehicles, contract with company x to launch vehicle, look at various Lunar Landing commercial vehicles, contract with this Lunar Landing vehicle that will take is that the right way to think about this . Yes, if i may. Have a toolbox to build a house, you dont have just one tool in the toolbox, you find the right tool for the job. Using the satellite business as a model there are Economic Activities going on where the government purchases services and government activities as well so you need a mix and it has to be driven by the strategic view for the country and what capabilities do you want to create and have Going Forward so think of it from that big picture, theres a place for all of it in the right strategy. Im out of time, youll back. I would like to recognize the gentleman from alabama, mister brooks. Production of the core stage element is driving the Space Launch System Program schedule. The program is designing welding techniques and materials, the thickness of the metal that has not been used before, establishing new production techniques is laudable the program has faced numerous setbacks and is developing these processes and correcting apex. How confident is the program that its contractors will have gained enough knowledge to avoid these setbacks and delays for future flight hardware . We met the challenges of self reacting friction of the thicker materials, we understand how to do that and we will continue to refine the welding technique as we go into future pieces but the basic understanding is in place, we know how to do the welding. I said in opening remarks that is important for the industry as a whole. Nasa paved the way by allowing others to use the same techniques and larger thickness of materials. If you could, what steps does the program and contractor have in place to avoid mistakes such as welding tool changes that shut down production . We are monitoring activity, ways that we can do that, we knew fairly soon there was a problem with welding when it occurred. The good news is tools and techniques to find defects to prevent her from extending into flight hardware and that was good. That we didnt fully understand, we had done smaller samples, smaller welding tests, we had not done any of the magnitude or scale were trying to do with the full vehicle so we need to be prepared as we build schedule Going Forward to know the first time things we have never done before, magnitude that has never been done before, may need extra time the first time through and not be overly optimistic in our schedule. We will build in some time to do those things to make sure we dont have the same problem moving forward and we identify those areas in the future where we see first time items and will put in place processes and procedures to prevent that. The core stage element driving the sls Program Schedule has to complete a major test fire called the green test run. The green test run will have the core stage integrated with four main engines, the tanks will be filled with cryogenic fuel for the first time, the core stage will be fired for 500 seconds, the engines have been tested individually but not all together, this is the first for the core stage. What areas teams are analyzing that test for all its detail. And look at that test, to be accommodated and take into account everything that might occur during that test. Concerns when the my rocket is designed to fly it is not designed to stay in one location for the entire firing. Wind tunnels, extensive work on a test stand to look at modeling and testing and how we do the fluid flows. Looking at procedures, tankers to bring in the liquid hydrogen and oxygen in a most efficient manner. Flips and schedules, going up after the core stage for the sentence, the key risk, we will be fully prepared what it occurs. What we are testing for, like insulation damage, all those things. The biggest concern is thermal and damage to the bottom of the vehicle, procedures in place for alternate techniques to fix things during that testing. Detailed test plans and mitigation this that can arise. I yield back. Next, the gentleman from virginia, mister beyer. Thank you for being with us today. Two days, rockets from the midatlantic regional spaceport and the flight facility. Into the International Space station with important supplies for astronauts living and working in space, two wonderful Staff Members going to watch the launch. Proud of the role virginia played in supporting that. Aside from Cape Canaveral the only launch site in the us with an supported National Security Missions Including recently announced nro mission next year. Vector space announced three initial lunches will occur next year. We had an accident a couple years ago, virginia put 200 million of taxpayer money into the spaceport. A unique successful Publicprivate Partnership between nasa, virginia, orbital a tk. As we look at Space Operations discuss how to contribute to nasas planning and operation. Playing a key role for delivery to the space station, it is interesting to see how the orbital team is using that cargo vehicle in creative ways. It completes the Cargo Delivery Mission and another mission for its own uses. And onboard the cygnus vehicle, there was a large fire in cygnus prior to reentry, to understand, what Fire Suppression should be, the orbital a tk team looking at creative ways for the post mission after the Cargo Mission is done in creative ways of bringing folks in, to continue to see a large number of launches out of virginia in that area. The control center has been upgraded, and nasas investment in the launch site as well. In your testimony, you wrote, quote, the United States needs a comprehensive National Space strategy, but accompanied by longterm commitment for execution. Do we not have that already . I some of the holes came out during the National Space council meeting, nasa has a comprehensive strategy how to continue doing exploration in the initial phase of the bubble and working with the private Sector Development stage but there is a lot of work the faa is working on with respect to the licensing, discussion about the on orbit peace, discussion about taxes, all kinds of pieces when you think about how to develop a healthy economy or stable economy or help one get off the ground, not just about the rockets or habitats, theres Legal Framework and things like this, you have to fold in the piece of what do we want from International Cooperation and encourage private industry, how do we want to help the innovation succeed and make sure the government does this, all these pieces are out there but not clear they of all been brought together comprehensively. William gerstenmaier, one of the ongoing debates we hear on the subcommittee is do we go directly to mars or do we go to the moon first . Use that as a launching park for mars . You talked about such a program would lead the return of humans to the moon on longterm exploration . Is a decided we go to the moon first . As we described earlier the approach where we use the moon as a Training Ground to move further out is a good approach and is consistent with the authorization language we received with direction from congress and the administration. It is steppingstone approach where we use the moon to learn skills and things we need to help advance but ultimately we are moving human presence into the solar system with the ultimate goal towards mars. Sandra magnus, quote from your written testimony. The current budgeting process including regular use of continuing resolutions, threat of government shutdown, lack of stable budgetary environment prohibit this company and of trade space to be used. I want to say amen, the federal workforce, Government Contracting community, and the community . Mister posey. Thank you for calling this informative meeting and i thank the witnesses, both of you. Always a pleasure to hear from you and gain your insight. William gerstenmaier, would you say reaching mars is the top priority of nasa right now . Speech is the way i described it, moving human presence in the solar system, but it is one of the steppingstone approaches as we move human presence into the solar system. As a priority how would you prioritize things . I think we need to be careful, i dont pick destinations which i talk more about building capability or expanding sandy described how we move out into the solar system and bring the commercial sector. The economy with us as we move. Im looking for a much longer Strategic Vision than a particular single destination and i see this as a continuum of gaining the skills we need as we move into the fuller system. I appreciate you using the word steppingstone in reference to the moon. Congress expressed they like everything to be a steppingstone to mars, that ought to be a goal, you know and i know if everything is a priority nothing is a priority, i would like to hear it acknowledged, reaching mars is a top priority and everything we do is steppingstone to reaching that goal for a number of reasons. Are you familiar with buzz aldrins cycler program . I hear about that plan frequently. Take a moment to share why ill plan your pursuing is superior to the plan he suggest with cyclers . In our world we often like to contrast things and show how they are different and pick one or the other. If you look at the approach we lay out with potentially cruz attended platform in the vicinity of the moon and use that as the staging ground to go to mars, that has similar aspects to many of the cycler concepts Mister Aldrin talks about. It doesnt continually cycle but we are using the moon in high elliptic around the moon is a staging position to go to mars, rather than go directly back to the earth. There are pieces of what he describes in our plan, would like to have up your plan he describes, where we have a large cycler in place. We look to get good ideas from everyone, the apollo astronauts, commercial industry, great ideas and put them together and build the strategic plan, i dont see it as one or the other, his is superior to ours, there are advantages and disadvantages or a hybrid between those. That is a pretty good answer. Funding approvals to that part of that. If constrained by the financial environment, the adequate resources and reflect that in our planning, and build a program that requires more funding than was originally available. I would like to comment, we have to quit talking about either the moon or mars. If you think about the model presented, if we are really thinking carefully about moving that initiative. I think everyone in this room understands we want to go to mars for a number of reasons. As a launching area am a potential fuel there, on the moon, at one time there was quite a bit of opposition to it. And pretty much acknowledged if we do it in a way as we bring industry behind us, and the government continues to go to mars, you passed to the moon and do the things you need to do to continue to build Operational Capability to go to mars, the government keeps expanding to mars, it is stable and provides additional capabilities continue outward thrust. My time is up. Gentleman from colorado. I will put up my prop for one second. To be parochial, and we are three or four days from Vandenberg Air force base we will launch the jps s, that satellite was built in colorado by the United Launch Alliance rocket which was built in colorado. Each of us from an economic point of view and also a point of view of pride has a stake in our Space Program and all of us up here are pretty much on the same page when it comes to getting us to mars. I dont care how we get there, just get there by 2033 if not a lot earlier. My job whether it is a steppingstone to the moon or use a hyperloop or somehow somebody comes up with beaming us over to mars, i want our astronauts on mars. Orion and sls are the main vehicle we have to do this now. Mister William Gerstenmaier, you heard me talk about this. Obviously our job is to get you the funding to have that constancy of purpose on a 16 year project. We dont have that yet. It is our responsibility to do. For me, i am a results oriented guy. That is your responsibility, Sandra Magnus and William Gerstenmaier. I have to find you the resources so that you can do that. But others up here are more accountant types and want to make sure we hit our benchmarks and the milestones, as to you, your engineers, that is how you guys operate. The anxiety some feel were already missing a milestone early in the 16 year journey is something we have to take seriously. Our responsibility is to provide resources to get this done. Let me ask a couple basic questions. In developing this program, how do you see International Partners . Has there been discussed with other countries about partnering with us in a major project like this. William gerstenmaier. There has been quite a bit of work discussed with the overall framework, global exploration roadmap will be published next january providing a framework of moving forward is consistent with all we are building, the or ryan, what we are doing with space station as part of the overarching framework. And and as well as commercial industries and international this is a team activity. And and 5 is 6 metric tons, and sls doesnt have to be, and what was going on with our can in blue origin, and in sierra nevada. And forget the vehicle coming back, that is part of the interactive framework. I see tremendous interest from all partners and seeing how they would participate and be part of this. In your participation with the association what are you seeing in terms of willingness by the private sector and doing outreach to other countries that will help us get to mars . There is a huge amount of interest in the private sector in the United States to participate in this project, there are a lot of Small Companies engaging in space that never existed before. And innovative approaches, a lot of energy and great ideas. I have no doubt we can do it internationally. They look to us, International Partners look to us to provide vision and energy and drive, not necessarily to be the dictators, bill mentioned the roadmap, a lot of enthusiasm to have the United States, this is great, this vision, we want to take a part of it, figure out how we can do that. We can do it if it is funded. At the bottom of it. I yield back. I recognize the gentleman from florida, doctor dunn. A lot of fun to listen to the interesting and intelligent people you bring to these hearings which i have 1000 questions and we 5 minutes so i will jump right in. My background is as a surgeon so i will ask a lot of questions about lifesciences. What are the special risks in deep Space Missions with longduration low Earth Orbit Missions . The biggest risk to radiation, radiation exposure in deep space. Around the earth we are shielded somewhat from some of the radiation by the magnetosphere, in deep space that shielding is gone. We have to look at techniques to shield the crews and look if theres any other techniques we can do with medication and other things to help with radiation during the journey. It is not an insurmountable problem the problem we need to address, that we cant look at as easily around the earth as we would like. You are opening up new avenues of research and life science for extended the Space Missions, that is exciting. Some of that can translate to earth too. Things we learn from the kelly astronauts win experiments . That is the exciting thing, looking at how the genome changes when exposed to microgravity. We believe it is a microgravity change causing changes, not radiation. The difference between radiation and microgravity changes and certain genes regulate and some down regulate when exposed to microgravity. That is a Fascinating Research subjects was i would have to bring some of the researchers here that are better versed than myself who can explain what they are seeing and opened up a new line of questioning and science and medicine advances, new questioning, something you never thought about calls into question your basic and the theory changes and you develop a brandnew way, to do something in the future. This is a very exciting phase. We look forward to hearing that. There are interesting designs for deep Space Missions that are very, what are you doing with orion capsule . One big thing is the radiation environment for we looked at potential shielding. When we took orion on exploration flight test we flew radiation sensors on it and when we take it on Exploration Mission one it will apply radiation sensors and also fly a mockup of a human torso inside the capsule and embedded in the human torso will be radiation monitors to simulate the various organs inside the human and look at Radiation Protection vest on the outside of the human Exploration Mission one to gain insight to see if that provides protection for the crews, there will be some type of storm shelter or radiation shelter design into future deep space vehicles. Changes in dna in microgravity and radiation to put animal experiments on unmanned Mars Missions . We dont have any animal missions on Exploration Mission one. And hillary the lifesupport system, we put some lifesupport system on that test flight to accommodate. We have all the basic animal models. Something with dna. You have a personal relationship with radiation in space. Can you comment on this . I was on the space station for 41 2 months, the exercise protocols were sufficient, we have got that. We are learning a lot. What will happen in a radiation environment, to do work around the moon informing us a little more about what we dont know and do lines of inquiry to get our bases covered before we go to mars. Engaged and interested committee here, thank you very much. Now recognize the gentleman from california, mister rohrbacher. I go back and look at the testimony we had so far. I am one of the Foreign Affairs committee and science committee, i am very interested, the next major step into space as to what we see as an international goal, not just american goal, talking about going to the moon and establishing longterm presence on the moon, in the space station we have people from other countries and countries that partnered with us, are we planning anything like that for our moon presence . Yes we are. We discussed earlier the Service Module that provides propulsion and lifesupport gases for the orion capsule come from the European Space agency being manufactured by them, this is their contribution in a real way to the first steps in exploration. Is the administration have any plans on this that we need to know about . I dont know. We have got 45 day report actions that came out of the space council, refined details, we continue to build what we did with the space station and continue the same partnership as we move toward the moon and mars. When i first got here we have been around a long time. Very instrumental in the space station and the station would not move forward, i am very pleased with how that turned out. And make a positive difference, and what we are planning to do, now that we made that decision we had a great deal of debate whether to go on to mars, and reached a consensus the moon is a step to mars, i hope we get a little more, what we have on the moon and international effort, and how much money it costs us to accomplish specific goals we have in our mars mission next in a moon mission now. In Exploration Mission report is due in december and we will start to show you specifics of the questions and agreements and how to do these things internationally. Thank you very much, mister chairman. Thank you, mister rohrbacher. Now i would like to recognize the gentleman from louisiana, mister higgins. Thank you. I very much appreciate appearing before this committee today. We are all united in our enthusiasm moving this program forward. We have to move forward in very little time. I represent louisiana, the facility in new orleans, developing a welding process, can you explain that please . The largest facility in the world welds our large tanks, Hydrogen Tank and oxygen tank, the space launch system, the two plates of aluminum, and self reacting having a tool behind it with two plates together, it goes through, it melts and fuses two pieces of aluminum sheet together, different from Fusion Welding when you use an arc or a tool, no heat distortion, it puts those two pieces of structure together. This is the latest welding technique provides you to use your layers of steel allowing them to be sufficient, is that correct . The defects and the fact, to be joined together and put together in a stronger manner. Let me jump forward to manned presence on the moon as we discussed earlier, a steppingstone to mars. Have landing sites, Lunar Landing sites been discussed and determined . From robotic standpoint i think what we are interested in it if you look at the apollo missions, most were equatorial around the equator of the moon. We see potential water or at least water in the north and south pole of the moon that could be important as we think about moving forward, as we move into the solar system we can get water from the moon, that would be interesting to us. We see permanently shadowed regions we would like to investigate first robotically and potentially if it makes sense with humans in those areas but as soon as we understand how that water is held in the lunar regolith, that could be really important to market and how we move presence into the solar system. Human presence for extended exploration, and extended periods on the moon surface, one of the major challenges is developing protected areas where astronauts could stay. Last month, japan aeroSpace Exploration agency discovered large and stable lava tube beneath the surface approximately 300 feet deep, 302 wide, areas where the ceiling on the roof of the tube had collapsed. Does this change the paradigm of what you and your team might be considering regarding human habitation . Definitely something to be considered. If you can take advantage of the radiation shielding provided by the dinner regolith and have a structure or location to go into for storm shelters that could be interesting. That is something we need to continue to keep looking at and see how it fits. To be explored robotically. You can do it robotically. We talk about having an orbiting, crew attended capability around the moon, use astronauts on board the gateway concept we talked about to command rovers, to drive into these potential lover tubes one more thing regarding the underground caverns, the low gravity of the moon, stated by reputable scientists these tubes, does your study concur with that . I am not familiar with those studies and i have to research that or ask someone. If that information becomes available during the course of your studies, i thank you for your continued research. Can you provide that to the committee . Yes. I yelled back. That call votes, several of us have questions and we will take a minute a piece. I want to go quickly, the recent slip of the space launch system seems to be the result of many factors, we mention hurricanes, tornadoes, poor stage welding issues, what impact will delay and delivery in the orion Service Module by the europeans have on the december 2019 day, what tool does nasa have to ensure the European Service module does not lead to further delays . We are working extensively with the European Space agency, they committed extra funding to make sure they can do it from a scheduled standpoint, helium valves manufactured in the United States for the european this as we know those are having trouble manufactured, we set our people to the plant to actually help with that activity to mitigate that concern. We have a nasa design which will provide that application. Lockheed martin has gone state Department Approval to send technicians to europe to assist with manufacturing of the European Service module. We are doing everything we can. The Current Service model delivery date is supposed to be april of next year. We are likely to see that schedule slip to may or june. We are looking at how to help with that downstream so we are doing a simulator on the sls when it goes to florida to do modal testing rather than the actual orion and European Service module on top. We are well aware of that, probably one of our key risk areas, doing everything we can but just firsttime manufacturing causing the problem. A great concern, you very much. The gentleman from california. One of the exciting parts, looking at newer Propulsion Systems as well. Ones that we have talked about is solar electric propulsion. Could either one of you talk about why solar electric propulsion is important particularly as we go into deeper space . Sandy can help. The big advantage is in terms of efficiency and the amount of propellant needs to move things, very efficient to move large masses throughout the solar system. So if we have this crew tended facility around the moon, we can use electric propulsion to move it to a totally different orbit. I might add we just recently awarded some study contracts to typical Communication Satellite manufacturers to see if they would have interest in using as the next generation of electric propulsion thrusters and a higher power propulsion bus. We might be enabling the commercial Communication Satellite industry to get a jump over other foreign competitors by advancing the stateoftheart in electric propulsion and Power Generation beyond where they are today. So they gained directly from what were trying to do and did we get the capability we can use around the moon for our needs so this this is a winwin between industry and us. Now i think this rohrabacher from california has one. We just mentioned commercial activities and i asked before what we thought about International Cooperation. Are any part of the plans for this extended moon presents were talking about now that would include the private sector . We know now 20, 30 years ago we didnt have these private Companies Like spacex and all the others making the contribution. Do we expect there to be a private involvement and commercial involvement in a way that will help bring down the cost as well . We currently have nextstep brought every announcements where we are working with five companies to go look at habitation capability around the moon and were actively engaged with them. They are very interested in what they can do with us, then they may have application for that in lowearth orbit as may be a followup the International Space station. We are very much involved with them. As i described earlier, sls meets the unique niche. It can carry large master the vicinity of the moon along with group but we will definitely use expendable launch vehicles, new vehicles coming online, the falcon nine, falcon nine heavy, new glenn, all those capabilities, all those will be used. I think whats interesting is we look to this whole suite of lunch capabilities and commercial capabilities and how do we build a plan that involves all of them. Just like you describe we do the best of international, the best of commercial, put it together to allows collective estimation to move forward. Thats terrific. Thank you for that answer. I hope maybe bigelow might have little play in that as of. Is one of the brought every announcements participants in the habitation. Great, thank you. I want to thank the witnesses for this very, very interesting hearing and your valuable testimony and want to thank all the members for the questions. The record will remain open for two weeks for additional comments and written questions from the members. So with this, the hearing is adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] the Senate Finance committee continues debate on on the sene republican tax reform plan today. Live coverage of the market beginning at 9 a. M. Eastern on cspan3. Cspan3. Online the cspan. Org or on the free cspan radio app. My name is lissette mendez, program director. The Miami Book Fair takes place in downtown miami at the campus of miamidade college. This you have little over 525 authors representing every genre, anything that you can think of we are representing at Miami Book Fair. Watch live coverage of the Miami Book Fair saturday and sunday starting at 10 30 a. M. Eastern on booktv on cspan2. Now my a discussion with religious leaders and civil rights activists on racism in america. Well hear from georgia congressman john lewis who is ws part of the panel on the role of religious faith in confronting racism, bigotry and sexism. Posted by georgetown university. This is just under two hours. Good evening everyone. My name is father mark bosco, Vice President here at georgetown university. Occam to the chapel of the sacred heart. The