Transcripts For CSPAN2 Housing Secretary Carson Testifies At Oversight Hearing 20171016

Members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials for inclusion in the record. This is entitled the future of housing in america, oversight of the department of housing and urban development. I now recognize myself for three and half minutes to give an Opening Statement. Today we welcome the 17th secretary of the department of housing and urban development, doctor ben carson for his first appearance before our committee. Welcome. At least in one respect, he may be among the most qualified individuals to ever serve as hud secretary. Why . Because secretary carson was raised by a single mother who had a third grade education. He grew up in poor communities in detroit and boston that he lived in multi Family Housing with boarded up windows and doors, surrounded by sirens, gangs, and murders. Not only does he understand poverty personally in thi viscerally, he understands what it takes to escape it and he i passionate about helping others escape as well. He also understands huds approach to the laminating poverty and urban decay too often failed, and thankfully, he is committed to changing it. When it was created 52 years ago, hud was intended to be the main weapon in the war on poverty. 52 years later, and one point 6 trillion, the poverty rate remains basically unchanged. Hud has failed to live up to the noble aspirations of its birth. We do not wish to diminish the valuable work it does. It is an invaluable part of the nations safety net, especially housin housing for the elderly and disabled, but i remain all for the ablebodied, there is no better Affordable Housing program than a growing economy creating better jobs, bigger paychecks and brighter tomorrows. After suffering eight years of bad policy leading to a sluggish economy, it has been growing at barely half of the historic nor norm, working americans deserve better. They deserve fundamental tax reform as proposed by the president and republicans, a fair flatter, simpler, more competitive tax system. There hasnt been any significant tax reform in a century that hasnt grown the economy and grown tax revenues. I remind all after the tax plan was passed the economy grew by 48 and federal revenues grew by 66 . It erased a fivepoint Million Dollars deficit and turned it into a threepoint to billion dollars surplus. With the reagan changes they grew by fivepoint to percent and federal eve revenues surged by 28 . Even going back to the coolidge era, a series of tax relief measures passed resulted in 4. 7 growth. Weve seen it time and time again when we remove the burdens of excessive taxation and allow the American People to keep more of what they earn, we unleashed the potential to create prosperity and opportunity for everyone. Thats not economic theory, its economic history and at the very embodiment of Affordable Housing. I also wonder, how can one be for Affordable Housing yet oppose allowing working americans to keep more of their paychecks . Thats exactly what the republican tax reform framework does. It allows working americans to keep more of their paycheck. I look forward to hearing more of the secretarys new vision for hud and the programs that he and his team are beginning to reform. I now yield to the Ranking Member for an Opening Statement. Thank you, mr. Chairman. America is currently in the midst of the worst housing crisis that we have ever experienced. It is hitting our lowest income families the hardest. According to the National Low Income coalition, the United States has a shortage of sevenpoint to million affordable until units for low income households. Our country is also at a virtual standstill when it comes to reducing homelessness. In some parts of the country, homelessness has reached crisis proportions. We also face homeowner homeownership challenges with minority homeownership rates continuing to lag even as the Housing Market recovers. In the face of the immense Housing Needs in our country, President Trump chose doctor ben carson to serve as the head of the department of housing and urban development. The secretary of hud is supposed to be at the forefront of our efforts to create strong communities, expand, access to safe, decent and Affordable Housing and in force fair housing rights. Housing is the foundation on which our entire society is built. It is platform for economic mobility and wellbeing. It is a crucial part of our national economy. It is a necessary human right. We need strong leadership and a bold vision for hud in order to expand access to Affordable Housing in this country. Unfortunately, i have seen nothing to indicate that secretary carson is up to the challenge. Secretary carson has expressed views that are deeply alarming and antithetical to his role at hud, such as describing poverty as more of a choice than anything else and saying he doesnt think Public Housing should be to comfortable. His few actions so far as hud secretary are deeply troubling as well. Secretary carson supported a budget that flashes funding for critical Housing Programs and proposes harmful rent increases on some of the most vulnerable American Families. He is also moved to rollback important Obama Administration policies and initiatives with little or no explanation. I am very much looking forward to hearing from secretary carson today about his actions so far and his plan for serving our nations most vulnerable families. I think you mr. Chairman, and i yield back the balance of my time. The chair recognizes the german from wisconsin, mr. Duffy. The chairman of the housing and insurance subcommittee for one and half minutes. Thank you. Overhear mr. Carson. Type. Its hard to find people. Welcome. I dont know if it secretary or doctor or doctor secretary, welcome whatever the proper title is pretty think you can tell youre gonna be in for an interesting hearing today based on the Opening Statement of the Ranking Member. I would note that poor people have been. [inaudible] for the past eight years and minorities have fared wors worse than the rest of the population, and i would argue with a growing democracy, bigger government, youve got the middle class. Poor people get poor, rich people get richer, it happens whenever you implement these policies, and to go back to a system that gives people a hand up that helps move them from poverty like yourself into the middle class, one of the greatest Brain Surgeons the country has seen is the American Dream and the american story. Im looking forward to your testimony today. I know you have a lot of reforms that you want to discuss with us and im looking forward to hearing that. Id also like to hear your vision, because the prior secretary, when they would look at success of hud, success was viewed in the realm of how many people do we get into the system. How many people do we help through hud versus the mentality of how many people do i get in, but many people can i move out of the system. How many people can i get to stand on their own 2 feet. What is the measure of success and i look forward to your views on Housing Finance reform, role poverty and my time is up. I yield back. The time for the german has expired. We now recognize the gentleman from missouri, the Ranking Member of the housing and insurance subcommittee, for one minute. Thank you. The housing future of america strikes me as very significant. I have opening comments but i might be of greater value if i just tell you that i sat down with Shaquille Oneal to tell him how his fatherinlaw grew up. We grew up to box apart. I lived at 405d bailey and he lived at 512 in the projects. I ended up getting the opportunity to move up faster than they did. My father saved money, bought a lot, bought a house, moved the house to the lot that i mentioned to you, and i always think, what wouldve happened if nobody had helped my mother and father as they were struggling to make a living for four children. My time is up but i just want to say i have Three Sisters with degrees, one with a phd. What would happen if they had ignored us . Housing is important to me. I yield back. The time of the gentleman has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from michigan, the vice Ranking Member for one minute. Thank you mr. Chairman, thank you Ranking Member waters but im glad you are having this hearing. Secretary, im glad your here. The condition of americas cities and towns is the subject that is the jurisdiction of this committee and your department, and i think in either case, for some time to be fair to you, preceding your entry into this position, that subject has not gotten nearly the attention it should. Unfortunately, for decades, important investment in cities and towns, the home program, they face really deep cuts. I grew up in flint, just around the same time you were growing up in detroit. We had a similar childhood experience. A lot of people know flint now has of this terrible crisis that it is facing, coming out of this poisoning of its water, but the truth behind flynns story is that it was on the brink of insolvency im anxious to hear how you can swear your suggestions. Time of the gentleman has expired. We welcome the honorable ben carson. This is the first time he has appeared before this committee. He was sworn in as the 17th secretary of the u. S. Urban development o in 2017. He earned a bachelors degree at yale and received his m. D. From the university of michigan medical school. Previously he served as director of pediatric neurosurgery at the Johns Hopkins childrens center. Without objection, the written statement will be made part of the record. Sector carson, you are now recognized to give an oral presentation of your testimony. Welcome. I dont think the microphone is on secretary, if you could turn the microphone on. The red light is on. Its on now. Thank you chairman, Ranking Member, members of the committe committee, thank you for inviting me to discuss the work that we do at the department of housing and urban development. My plans for filling the mission with fidelity to our congressional mandate in the best interest of the American People. First, please know right now hud is involved in the federal response to multiple hurricanes that devastated areas of texas, florida, georgia, puerto rico, and the u. S. Virgin islands. Huds team is correlating with our federal state territory and local Agency Partners in the field, providing Housing Solutions for survivors and helping hud assist the clients and fha insured followers. In the longterm, hud will play a key role in the Recovery Efforts in these disaster impacted regions as they rebuild. Helping these communities is and will remain a priority for me and this administration. America has changed greatly since hud was established as part of Lyndon Johnsons Great Society programs, half a century ago. We must learn to evolve with the country. Many Americans Still struggle to find Affordable Housing. Chronic homelessness continues to plague tens of thousands of our countrymen and many millions remain mired in poverty rather than being guided on a path out of it. History has made clear that spending more taxpayer dollars does not necessarily create better outcome. We must constantly evaluate our programs to ensure that we are delivering services effectively and efficiently to huds constituents. And responding to todays challenges with the best practices and technology. Since i arrived at hud in march, it has been my mission to employ the wealth of knowledge held by career staff to improve our services, reform our programs, and remain careful stewards of taxpayer dollars. After several months of hard work, our team has outlined a bold plan for institutional reform and improvement that will better serve all americans. Its called a forward initiativ initiative. The policy elements of the forward initiative, each fall under whats name the three hours. Reimagine how hard works, restore the American Dream and rethink American Communities. First, reimagining how they work refers to our internal processes. Working conditions, and training. The goal of every improvement made at hud is to provide Better Service for those in need. Second, our job is to restore the American Dream, getting americans back on their feet and permanently improving their lives, of course, it is committed to continuing to serve those families that might always need someone to lean on. Additionally, we have an opportunity to eliminate veterans, homelessness in america. They sacrificed for our country and deserve all the support we can give. Finally, we need to rethink American Communities and how we can make them thrive, expanding Community Investment through publicprivate partnerships produces better results than heavyhanded government intervention. It is also our special priority to help more American Families live in Healthy Homes free of lead hazards and other poisonous substances. As a doctor ive seen firsthand the tragic consequences of childhood exposure to dangerous building materials. Ridding our homes of these hazards is a worthy cause with great benefits to future generations. While pursuing its mission to provide safe, decent and Affordable Housing for the American People, the hud team is also cognizant of its vital duty to be a good steward of taxpayer dollars. The president has directed federal agencies to take special care against burdening American Families and their businesses with unnecessary and expensive relations. Hud is reviewing its extensive regulations to review compliance cost, Regulatory Burden and build a more efficient and effective agency. Let me close by reiterating the interest and my personal interest in Housing Finance reform. Hud will be an active participant in this critical dialogue because of our fundamental housing mission, and because our fha Mortgage Insurance Program and our jenny mae mortgagebacked security guarantee are large and vital components of the nations Housing Finance system. Housing finance reform should be built on shared goals of ensuring a wellfunctioning Housing Finance system that provides access for credit worthy borrowers that are ready to own a home, expands the role for a private sector, and reduces overall taxpayer exposure. Thank you again for inviting me to testify today. I welcome any questions. The chair recognizes himself or five minutes for questions. Secretary carson, my colleague, the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Duffy alluded in his Opening Statement. I am curious, di does hud have or are they able to escape poverty. Can they remove beyond section eight housing . Maybe at one point enjoy the dream of Home Ownership. Does hud have any way to measure this . Should there be a different measure of success for what youre doing . There has been a number of studies over the decade. As was mentioned in the Opening Statement, there hasnt been a tremendous amount of progress. That wasnt because they have bad intentions, i think they have very good intentions but we have to look at the fact that we are not making a good deal of progress with poverty. Thats why we are looking to reform this whole thing and really look more at the person then at the housing complex. Housing is a component of developing people. We have to recognize that we only have 330 Million People in this country. We have to compete in the future with china and india who have four times that many people. That means, if we dont develop all of our people, we are not going to be able to keep up in the future. Its as simple as that. We have to start thinking in terms of Holistic Development of people, Holistic Development of communities, how do we enable people to climb that ladder of opportunity, how do we incentivize them to climb the ladder of opportunity so they become part of the strength of this country . Part of Affordable Housing is obviously tied to our Housing Finance system. Recently Federal Reserve governor said if congress does not enact reform over the next few years, we are at risk of settling for the status quo. A government dominated Mortgage Market with insufficient private capital to protect taxpayers and insufficient competition to drive innovation. Do you agree or disagree with governor powells assessment . There is no question that we need to engage in a serious discussion about finance reform. A lot of progress has been made, by the way, ten years ago we were talking about how important it is to get everybody into homeownership, and again, im not criticizing the people who did that, but i dont think they realize that to put somebody in a home that they cant afford is not really doing them a favor. They lose the home, they lose their credit, they lose their future opportunities. We have to learn from those kinds of situations and innovation is the hallmark of america. Mr. Secretary, can we reform our Housing Finance system without reforming fha which is obviously under hud . Fha, as you probably know, the largest guarantor of mortgages in the world so it is essential part of it and needs to be a reformed as well. Historically, the mission of fha was to support first time low income, low to moderate income families, and it had a small footprint in the market. Now it has a very large footprint in the market and in many areas of the u. S. , the fha loan limits are the same as the conventional market, 636,150 in socalled high cost areas. At least where i come from, only the top wage earners can afford a mortgage of 636,000. You agree that establishing a home price or loan limit in line with the median home price in the area will better serve the target customer for fha and get it refocused on low to moderate income and firsttime homebuyers . Thank you for that question. If one looks at the actual statistics and looks at the bell curve, 95 of the mortgages fall in the 200,000 range. I tend to focus on the large group and not on the outliers. It is very, very rare that we deal with the 600 30,000 dollars mortgage. Thank you mr. Secretary. I recognize the Ranking Member for five minutes. Thank you very much. I had intended to start to talk about the housing crisis that we have, but since the president was dizzy tweeting this morning, and you referred to huds role in dealing with the hurricane disasters and what you and the administration are doing this morning, trump threatened to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts. President trump served notice thursday that he may pull back federal relief workers from puerto rico, effectively threatening to abandon the u. S. Territory despite a staggering humanitarian crisis in the after math of hurricane maria. In a trail of tweets, he wrote, we cannot keep fema, the military and the First Responders who have been amazing in puerto rico forever. On thursday he sought to shame the territory for its own plight. He tweeted electric and all infrastructure was destroyed before hurricane. You talk about what they are doing in cooperation with the demonstration. You agree with the president. I certainly agree that puerto rico is a very important territory and the people from puerto rico have contributed greatly to the culture of america. Im not talking about that. What im talking about is these tweets where the president threatened to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts. You agree they should be abandoned and puerto rico should be abandoned . First of all, as i was saying, puerto rico is very important no, i know its important but i want to know whether or not you agree with the president who is threatening to abandon puerto rico Recovery Efforts. I think i just said, i have no intention of abandoning puerto rico. They are a very important part. So you dont agree with president. He tweeted electric and all infrastructure was destroyed before the hurricane ands sought to shame the territory for its own plight. You share that opinion . I think our job is to make sure that we take care of the disaster that has occurred. So you dont agree it should be up abandoned . Is that right . Of course it shouldnt be abandoned. And you dont think they should be shamed for its own plight, is that right . Theres no question that there have been a lot of difficulties in porter rico. Should they be shamed for its own plight. I dont think it is beneficial to go around shaming people in general. Okay, im glad to hear you dont agree with the president. Let me go on with my house in question. I want to talk about someone who i recently met by the name of larry who resides in section 202 housing in elderly property in south los angeles. He shared with me the meticulous Monthly Budget he manages for himself. I have the budget right here. He lives on a fixed income of 1015. Month. After paying for rent, utilities, groceries, medical expenses, personal hygiene, he has exactly 110 left at the end of the month. He told me he looks forward to using some of that 110 to take his granddaughter out for ice cream. The rent increases are posed in your recent hud budget would mean an 80dollar monthly increase for larry. Larry said to me in my office, congresswoman, i dont know which other corner i could cut if i had to pay an additional 80. Month in rent. In fact, i have data that shows seniors would have to pay an additional 83. Month, on average in rent under your rent performed proposal which is a whopping 28 increase over what they are currently paying. There are low income seniors and hud assisted housing all over the country. They have averaging comes just over 13000. Year. Do you mean to tell me it is the vision of this administration to raise rent on low income seniors like larry . Tell me, what you expect larry to do if your proposal to raise rent is enacted . If larry does not see a way out, he can apply for an exemption which will be available to him. Having said that, we are changing programs in such a way to create sustainability. We dont want to reach a. 5 years down the road where we have no ability to take care of anyone. Let me just say, i have heard you mentioned before that hardship exemptions will be available. I do not accept that as an adequate solution because hardship exemptions have historically failed to actually help people who are eligible for an exemption and you have never acknowledged this. I ask again, what you expect larry and the tens of thousands of other seniors like larry do in the face of such a dramatic rent increase . First of all, i think the situation that you just described is not a typical situation. I dont believe the elderly and disabled people will see that large of an increase. That is not the. [inaudible] time of the gentle lady has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. Duffy, chairman of the housing and insurance subcommittee. Thank you. I want to deviate from my original question and note that the president was somewhat accurate and that the electrical grid in puerto rico was not up to what it should have been. They are highly in debt. There are a lot of problems in puerto rico that they were dealing with before. Hit them. I love the alan. Im part of the puerto rican caucus. What now to try to say that President Trump is shaming people on the island, if im not mistaken, it was President Trump who sent over a request for a supplemental package for 36 billion. That came from the white house. Yes, i can tell you from being in many conversations with the president , and other members of the cabinet, he is in no way thinking about abandoning them. He has put a lot of effort into that. Speaking to that point, i think it was president obama who did just a flyby stop in and puerto rico, but then went and spent days in cuba hanging out with a ruthless dictator, going to see baseball games, hands in the air, open up tourism in cuba to the exclusion of tourism in porter rico. We should first go, lets promote american citizens in puerto rico and dollars flowing there instead of to the dictatorship of cuba. I am off my questions, but i had to respond to the Ranking Members. I think it is an inaccurate characterization of what President Trump has done on behalf of the good people puerto rico. I want to pivot, and i dont have a lot of time, can you talk about, when you look at hard in the tax dollars that flow through your agency, what are you doing to be more efficient, to stretch those dollars further and help more people, but also be responsive to the taxpayers who send you money . What do you do on those and. I take responsibility of the taxpayers very seriously. We have put in place a team that understands that seriousness. We have hired a coo, cio and the cfo. Hopefully we will get through very soon so that we can begin to look at things from the 30,000 point of view rather than just patching Little Things that dont seem to work which has sort of been the way things have been done in the past, running it more like a business, assigning responsibilities to people and in all of the different areas so that you dont pass the buck to someone else. Refreshing. I think i heard Ranking Member mention this, people should be too comfortable in Public Housing. I think shes quoting you they were getting people out three times to four times faster than other traditional housing. I wanted to know how they were doing that and it is because they were concentrating their efforts and resources into getting people into permanent housing. I said that was a very good idea. There was a New York Times reporter who misinterpreted tha that, or actually, she did a better job with her editors reinterpreted that. She said carson thanks they shouldnt be comfortable. Its a bunch of crab, that is. Take you for that. I know poverty is not comfortable. Would you be better off if you and your mother and your family had been made comfortable to stay were you were in poverty or to incentivize you to become the great doctor and now secretary that you are. Well, i can tell you, at the time, when my mother was pushing us, i wouldve preferred that somebody make me comfortable there. I didnt want her to make me read these reports and give her all these reports, but in retrospect, by reading, particularly about successful people and all endeavors, i began to realize what is necessary. To recognize that what happens to you is you. What we have to do is help more people to recognize that and give them the means by where there the can take advantage of the opportunities that exist. I dont have much time and we talked about this in the past but i want to make this note, im concerned in Rural America how programs impact low income Homeless People as opposed to urban america where there are better structures and more money flows. Poverty in Rural America is just as dangerous and treacherous and sad as in urban america, making sure there is some equity between the two. I look forward to continuing to work with you on how we can address these issues. The chair recognizes mr. Meeks. Let me just say Puerto Rico Needs all the help they can get. We need to make sure were doing what we can do. I would also say that the u. S. Virgin islands cannot be forgotten about. Puerto rico, u. S. Virgin islands are american citizens and we need to do all that we can to make sure that the conditions they are in, due to no fault of their own but this national disaster, then how does what it can to make sure these individuals can get back on their feet. Agreed. Our life story is somewhat similar. I grew up in Public Housing, which is very important to me. The opportunity to move on, it was great in the sense that there was looking for homeownership, and i know, i think you said during your testimony that there has not been a tremendous amount of progress at relieving poverty with the Housing Programs. I can tell you, if it wasnt for Housing Programs i probably would still be in poverty, and i could name friend after friend after friend who grew up in the same Public Housing development that i did who no longer live there, who would be in poverty if it wasnt for a Housing Program and a decent place to live which is huds mission. When you look at the fact that individuals that were preyed upon, because i know you also believe as i do that the goal is Home Ownership, but those individuals, many of them who lived in Public Housing who thrived and aspired to live in their own home, they were the ones who are victimized by exotic mortgages and targets et cetera. Now they are forced back into renting apartments and homes and need Housing Programs so they can continue to have a roof over their head so they can get out of poverty. One of the pieces i am concerned about, that we have at hud is the gas program. It seems as if we are selling homes to private equity firms who have no interest in making sure that we stress homeownership and make sure that individuals stay in their homes. They are just about the dollar. I was wondering, what is your vision for the Program Going forward . Do expect the program to continue . First of all, Public Housing is important and assisted housing is important. The point was that even though its important, we need to be looking at ways that we can reform it so we can make more progress in terms of getting people out of poverty. Definitely, i dont want to get rid of it. As far as the das as program is concerned, we have to be cognizant of our responsibility to taxpayers, and that means not taking on and keeping a lot of property that require a lot of taxpayer money. If we can find ways to dispose of those properties, absolutely, we want to do it, but we have written into the regulation, a requirement that people who are in those houses cannot be expelled from them for several months. We tried to give people appropriate time to be able to get out. So let me just ask, has the program targeted local municipalities and nonprofits in buying these homes is mark i know they have the interest of keeping people in those homes. If that program was designed so that local municipalities, who have a vested interest in this, and number nonprofits, then i think it would encourage what youre talking about, homeownership. Yes, i agree with you, and i know the former mayor here in d. C. Has been working on that kind of issue. We would be happy to work with you. I think our goal is obviously to get that property into the hands of private citizens if we can do that. Ali have 11 seconds and i want to get this in predicates tremendously difficult when you look at the Public Housing stock in my district, for example, with 1. 1 million families living in Public Housing, but if you cut all the money that goes into repairing those homes, to get rid of the walls that are mildew, then theres no way you can repair them if you dont have the money to reinvest in them. Time, time of the gentleman has expired. They now recognize the gentleman from new jersey, mr. Pierce. Thank you. We appreciate you being here. We appreciate the work that you are doing. Recently the new mexico delegat delegation central letter about the vacancy in that albuquerque had office. Are you making progress on finding someone to take that position. Yes we are making progress. You should hear something soon. I visited with you before about american housing, negative americans are sometimes located in some the deepest poverty areas in the country. I watched my family, maybe not the same circumstance as yours work our way up through poverty one small house at a time. Im pretty passionate about the negative american housing, but just this last week have visited two of the really good examples of what tribes can do to provide housing and ive invited in the past and i would like to come visit to see what tribes are doing to build houses for their own citizens, and extending the mortgage rules to wear banks, in some cases, are financing the houses on indian reservations which has not happened much in the past so i think its very innovative. When you talk been in the broader case about your forward initiatives, these are things that i can identify as having worked in our life, i hear your story about how they worked in your life and so i really appreciate you bringing your world experience and implementing it in to a format that hopefully others can reach. Tell me a little bit about the Public Private partnerships that you visualize in some the community initiatives. First of all, thank you for the work that youve done with the native american community. I had an opportunity recently to go to montana and visit with some of the tribes there as well as a multi tribal council, and i visited with some of the young people there and look at some ideals for really moving along with the help of congress, it will get revamped very soon. As far as the Public Private partnerships around the country, they have been amazing. It is really the new way that we do things at hud, rather than riding in with a big bucket of money and saying build this place for these people, getting the local private sector involved in a way that they actually have significant investment so that the success and maintenance of the neighborhood is incumbent on them to maintain their financial benefit. Thats way it should be. Its a winwin situation all around. The other thing about some of these leadership, instead of just building a house or putting a roof on, you are trying to build communities because you need a variety of Different Things in order to create a Healthy Community in any part of the country, and hopefully later on i will have an opportunity to talk a little bit about the enVision Centers that we are working on , hopefully opening the first one in a couple of months that will really add a lot to complete communities. Thank you. Being a veteran myself, ive noted that you said you are concentrating on eliminating veteran homelessness. Can you give me a little more specifics on whats going on in that program . Over the past short time, homelessness for veterans has been decreased by 47 and is still going down. We are working with the Veterans Administration as well as across multiple agencies because i believe that is something we can completely eliminate the hud program which has been very successful. In fact we had extra vouchers left over last year, one of the things i think would be very helpful to us, working with your committee is having less restrictions on how we can distribute those vouchers because there are some places where theres absolutely no one who needs them a map other places where they do need them and we need the flexibility to be able to transfer them to the appropriate places. Thank you, sir. I see my time has expired. I yield back. The john yields back. We recognize the gentleman from massachusetts for five minutes. Thank you for being here. I would like to yield my time to the Ranking Member. Thank you very much. I have serious concerns about the potential conflicts of entry with regard to hud funds that are contributing to the pockets of multi family development, owned in part by the president and his soninlaw geriatrician. Do you think its appropriate that the president and his family are profiting from federal government funding intended to support low income families . If you can give me specific example, i can address that question. I dont think its appropriate for Public Officials in general to do that do you stand by the president s decision not to divest himself of the interest in property that receives hud funding . I think the best thing to do is tell me specifically what youre talking about and then i can address it. What have you done to ensure hud is properly handling these conflicts of interest . Again, if you can tell me what the specific thing is, i can address it. These properties that are owned by the president or mr. Kushner are also reportedly in very bad condition. For example star city as part owned by the president. You know that. It is increasingl increasingly declining hud score. Do you know that. Do i know what . That has increasingly declining hud inspection scores. I know there are problems there, yes. But do you know that its a problem, they have received declining hud inspection scores. You know that . I know what is necessary to know as the secretary of hud regarding that. Do i know all of the numbers. No, i dont want you to know all the numbers. All i want you to know, Everybody Knows a lot about sterritt and its partially owned by the present. You are the hud secretary and you are in a conflict of interest situation and i just want to make sure you understand what you are overseeing. Do you know that they have declining hud inspection scores. I know they have been having difficulty. Okay, so you know they have not passed inspection. What are you doing to ensure that these hud residents are not suffering as a result of poor management and lack of investment by its profit motivated owner. Of course we oversee the pajs that are involved with that, and we work with them, as we do with the ones all around the country. We have learned that the owners, the biggest project based project in the country of which trump is part owner is planning to sell the property. Its already ripe with controversy inviting between the ownership and playing out in public. To date we have known knowledge of how to approve the section eight contract where property is not fha insured as sterritt city is. Hud has not published its process. They have the ability to insist upon things like robust and longer affordability requirements but the process is frankly unknown. Have you gotten involved with this . It is a big issue. We have a very well formulated group that deals with these kinds of issues and, they will deal with this one in the same way they deal with all such issues. There will be anything done differently. So they have not kept you appraised of what theyre doing. Are you satisfied with the progress they are making . They will handle this as they have handled all things. So you dont know, they have not kept you appraised, you dont know whether or not the process is working so, i would like a full accounting of the process that your department is planning to employee including all decision points and who will make them should this process move forward and so, i want you to commit to that because again, this is a big project that is owned partially by the president of the United States, and i want to know how the sale is going to work, what kind of protection these tenets are going to have, and you should keep yourself appraised of it because im going to want to know as others will want to know how it is progressing. Time of the gentle lady has expired. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony this morning and for being here. We know you have been on the job for just a brief five or six months. We are glad to have you in front of the committee for the first time. As you know, the Block Grant Program is huds Third Largest program, but, what is often forgotten is that the Disaster Relief program which is designed to help communities and neighborhoods recover from costly disasters, while the committee has long been concerned by the Previous Administration misuse of Community Development block grants and Disaster Relief funds, it is important to note that congress recently provided the program with 7. 4 billion in funding, understanding again that you have only been with hud since march and this is the first Disaster Relief effort you have been involved in. Are you aware of some of the problems and concerns of the program, especially regarding misuse of funds, and what importance do you place on making sure these programs go to the americans who need the most . First, thank you for that question. Its very important point out that they are different programs. Cdbg are has obviously been very, very important in disaster situations like the ones we have recently seen. There are very good things have been done through the program and there are some things that perhaps are quite questionable that have been done. Does it mean that we are not recognizing the things that are good that have been done and the things that need to be done in terms of infrastructure and redevelopment and development of communities. Those things will continue to be done without question. I am not questioning the things that have been effective and that have worked. We are questioning the things that have wasted ten taxpayers money and we have a way of reforming those things. Wonderful. I am glad to hear that. Mr. Secretary, as the chairman of the Oversight Committee on financial services, we will be looking into the program and even the potential upcoming hearing, and i just ask for your commitment and for operation to work with this committee on finding those very solutions that will improve effectiveness, efficiency, and probably most importantly, taxpayer account ability regarding the block grant Disaster Relief program. There are ways for rules of the program in statute, putting limits on money, deadlines, recapturing funds, even just better tracking of funds so i hope that you are willing to work with that. All of those things will be done, and thats why we put together and more businesslike approach and very much will be looking forward to working with you on that. I appreciate that. Staying with that theme, i wanted to go back to something you said in your testimony. While pursuing a mission to provide safe, decent and Affordable Housing for the American People, the hud team is also cognizant of its vital duty to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars and, like the medical victim, i love this the best, first do no harm. Having spent 1. 6 trillion in taxpayer funds since its creation in 19625, is hud making life better for American Cities and other communities . A lot of good things have been done. I dont want to disparage the efforts that people have put into this. I see all the things that have been done before as stepping stones to help us to get to where we want to be and i have a tendency not to spend a lot of time disparaging people. I appreciate that. Im interested to know how hud, what your perspective is on measuring success beyond the number of programs it creates are the amount of money spent. I think success for us will be not the number of people we get into these programs but how many people we get out of it. How many people actually climb that ladder of success and become selfsufficient. That is what our programs will be aimed at. Mr. Secretary, i find your approach refreshing and uplifting. I thank you for your testimony. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. The time of the gentle lady has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from georgia, mr. Scott. Secretary carson, tell me, why do you think President Trump asked you to be secretary of hud . Probably because before i endorsed him, we spent a lot of time talking about what was happening, particularly in some of our disadvantaged communities and how we really needed to recognize that if we are going to succeed as a nation, all those people have to succeed as well. Let me ask you this. It seems to me that i believe that the president put you there to give cover to cutting and eliminating this program. Let me tell you why. First of all, this is the crucible of the whole argument. You should be at the forefront of telling the great story of success of the program, the fact that it has created and retained 386,000 jobs for low and moderate income people, the program has benefited 42 million low and moderate income persons through public improvement, including senior citizens, childcare centers, veterans. It is benefiting people through Public Service like employment training. The funds have been used to assist credit worthy working families with downpayments on their homes you should be out here shouting the success of this program. The president has you there to give cover before cutting this program and eliminating it. what the President Trumpet called by now . Who else could . My impression is that what the president is really saying is that there are problems. And you said this. I think it was someone on his staff who kind of sad, while, maybe we should just get rid of the blowhole cdbg program. Ill tell you, mr. Secretary, im not going to let you do that and i believe we have enough democrats and republicans because this is a Bipartisan Program that is doing well. And you would do well, mr. Secretary, two stand out and fight back in this administration. It needs help when it comes down to dealing with hurting americans. And you are in this position, dean secretary, not just because of what you said, well, even if we cut these funds, i believe that the American People are a compassionate people. Mr. Secretary, you should know better than anyone that compassion alone wont do it. It wasnt compassion alone that not use sitting where you are right now. Somebody had to give you and your family a financial helping hand. We need you to speak up and fight vacuum this administration , told the talk. The time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman room missouri, mr. Luca meyer, from thank you, secretary kirsten. Welcome pair buster president signed into law the act of 2016, legislation introduced my friend and colleague from missouri, mr. Cleaver. Legislation requires the fha to streamline the rules and apply to condominiums that by september the Department Published a proposed rule and can you give us a sense of timing on the final rule anticipating that coming out of being finalized . There were like 28 different sections, three quarters of which have been satisfied. We are coming down the home stretch on that. It is really very important because condominium purchase is frequently the first step into homeownership and Home Ownership is violated by the economy of our nation and wealth accumulation to a primary source. The average homeowner has accumulated wealth of 200,000 in the amateur entry q a about the 5000 its a big issue in one of the reason you know, im looking for ways to get a lot of people who are relatively complacent with renting to be homeowners, but we have to do it in a responsible way. They not appreciate your comment. Options to manage fha exposure to risk in guaranteeing singlefamily mortgages. To provide policy options designed to further fha while also improving the agencys financial volition. A senior staff has written a report. Yes, they have. Are you aware of that . Weve had some discussions. Of the provisions in there, are you looking at implementing some of those who are you able to talk about and you have simply in have simply in summary still reviewing the report . Those are things that obviously would be very happy to work with you on. Im looking forward to having an fha commissioner involved in those discussions as well. Have any idea when the individual would be appointed . I am hoping very shortly. It has been quite an ordeal getting people in place. Understand. As costs continue to grow, but incomes from lowincome families remain stagnant, given the reality for Affordable Housing has increased emphatically sent the crisis, what innovative programs has the administration consider to provide access to housing . As you probably know right now, we are only able to provide about one in four or one in three people with Affordable Housing who are looking for extensive waiting lists. In one of the things that is really helping to cut down on the backlog of people are some of these Public Private partnerships, particularly through the programs that is taking the patients that have the big clogs the Capital Improvements that need to be made and by partnering with the private sector and through life tech in things of that nature, creating fast numbers of affordable unit thats in florida in miami recently, Liberty Square where they are demolishing 700 units and replacing them with 1600 units, which are very nice and are complete neighborhood. Those are the kinds of things that will help us to make progress and will make progress a lot faster than we did with the old model. Im just kind of curious you talked about Hurricane Relief you are working on and providing some Housing Solutions. Can you elaborate more on that and explain weve had three major storms here in other storms hit last week. This is an unprecedented situation that has occurred with this level of hurricane activity so close. With each faith, even before it hit, we had people on the ground, volunteers on the ground and what their needs are and how many people do we have a, how many unit where they are . In puerto rico for an end, theres 203 multifamily unit with over 2100 unit in the vast majority of those. Finding out what happened in those people, where are they located and how can we get them most quickly. The initial responses through fema and we work very, very closely with them. We rely upon their numbers to help the longterm recovery aspects. Thank you very much. The time of the gentleman has expired. The cherner recognizes the gentleman from california. Thank you at a lot of focus on the fha Program Prior to the administration was the process of implementing a 25 basis point reduction to the premium that wouldve saved the average borrower 500 the first year and more in high cost areas like mine come a billion homeowners wouldve benefited and they they wouldve saved over 27 billion. In your confirmation, of course before you were nominated, the administration halted that plan to reduce the premium by 25 basis point. During your confirmation, you agreed to look at that policy with the possibility of reinstituting. 25 basis points of decline. We also see that until 23rd team, you stop making premiums when you reach the loan to value ratio of 70 . 22 equity in the property and at that point it was thought you did not need insurance to make Insurance Premium payment. That was reversed in 2013. Are you moving toward perhaps reducing the Insurance Premium by 25 this point and are you examining going back to the policy of saying 1022 equity you dont have to make Premium Payments . Both of those things are being studied. They looked at very carefully. I personally dont want to make the commitment in terms of either one of them right now because we are so close to having an fha commissioner. But do bear in mind that we want the prices of homeownership to be as low as possible while still protecting. How will the recent reverse mortgage changes impact the Mutual Mortgage Insurance Fund the fha Insurance Fund and do you expect additional changes to the reverse Mortgage Program . The reverse Mortgage Program was initiated come i think it was done with very good intentions. But without really looking on the link and people worry taking out much larger amounts of equity in the beginning that the beginning there was sustainable. This was leading to a lot more problems than it was helping. Its also resolving a much higher default rates and that has been a big drain on the mmi s. The changes weve made sort of stop the bleeding in terms of new mortgages or reverse mortgages in the Mortgage Program is doing extremely well. We are doing some training from the reverse mortgage, but doing a lot of putting into the fund so we are very close to the 2 right now and we obviously need to watch further. Beyond your responsibilities for housing and development, you have other responsibilities by the constitution, particularly section four of the 25th amendment. And we all live by this kind dictation. The section for deals with the possibility that a president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Have you taken the time to get Legal Counsel to review what your responsibility is as a cabinet secretary under the 25th amendment . I admit yet had an indepth discussion about. I would urge you to do so. This amendment was written in the early 60s as a result of life that happens, whether it is a dangerous that a president faces, whether it Health Problems a president can face. I would urge you first to get Legal Counsel, to know what your responsibilities are. And Second Coming to discuss with other cabinet officers how you would implement section four the 25th amendment. I yield back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from kentucky, mr. Barr, chair of our Monetary Policy committee. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary, welcome to the canadian thank you for your service not just as secretary of the department, but also position of private life and for helping so many children and most of all for the example you have set. Holabird, integrity, persistence. Those are values that are critical to escaping poverty. Thank you for expressing the viewpoint that many of us have the government dependency often undermines those values. As weve talked many times, my district in kentucky unfortunately has one of the highest opioid addiction rates in the country. Unfortunately the commonwealth of kentucky suffers under the thirdhighest drug in overdose mortality rates in america. The good news is that i have seen success of evidencebased transitional Housing Programs including st. James place, recovery kentucky revived, shepherds house. These are organizations that help individuals, recovery and transition back into the workforce through job training, Financial Literacy and services. Unfortunately, hud Housing First program has not been helpful. Individuals who come out of addiction rehabilitation are placed in housing situations where neighbors are abusing the very substances they want to be as this contributes to a cycle of addiction that tears apart her community and also very costly to the american taxpayer. This has had any plans to address this issue of the Opioid Epidemic . Have you considered the need for supportive transitional Housing Programs as an alternative to the very Housing First program . Well, the homelessness is a big issue and i think we as a nation actually has the opportunity to resolve. Housing first i think is a bad name because people think we are just getting people off the streets and then we are forgetting about them. And maybe some people have done it that way. We are not doing it that way now. We believe in Housing First, housing second and housing third. Housing first to get them off the street because you leave them under the ridge for a year, they are going to end up in emergency rooms, frequently end up getting it knitted, a weeks admission cost as much as a year or more of housing. So that really doesnt help us very much. Theres a lot i can get in terms of how much they cost when you dont house them versus when you do. So you get in house first or second leg, diagnose why they worry that commission. That is critical. In third you fix it. I dont think its appropriate just to get them off the street and forgets about them and move on to the next project. Thank you on a secretary, for that answer. Appreciate your desire to see greater flexibility and the success and had and st. James place has invited you to come see what they are doing, flexibility that youre requesting we want to help you with that because organizations like st. James place are using the program to great success, requiring work, requiring sobriety, helping people, not just measuring success by how many veterans they are housing, but how many veterans are leaving in graduating the program. Again, i invite you to come see the st. James boys in lexington, kentucky. Introduce an amendment to stop overreach by your department and that amendment prohibited had been raising funds to administer or enforce actions inconsistent with actual that negatively impact manufacture housing courtesy can imagine rural kentucky manufactured housing is a terrific Affordable Housing opportunities for many of my constituents. As the leader of hud that regulates manufactured housing, can you undertake an effort impacting manufactured housing to utilize the information so that any new regulation do not have unintended cost consequences . Yes, we have a Regulatory Reform committee that has been armed at hud for purposes like that. Dance for that finally what we all poor administration, the Prior Administration you describe in the 2015th oped is government engineered attempts to regulate racial equality that create consequences that make matters worse. This is of course the disparate impact regulation. Its not actively working to advise the 23rd Team Problems you outlined in your article . We are making things logical, making things make sense. So you know, the Fair Housing Act of 1968 was one of the greatest pieces of legislation ever. Im a big fan of it and certainly dont want any discrimination of any type going on under my watch. But we also dont want Regulatory Burdens to impede our ability to get things done and we dont want to minimize those that dont have the ability to hire consultants and all things to comply with those issues. The time of the gentleman has expired. The chair recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. Cleaver. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Again, thank you, mr. Secretary for being here. I do want to be melodramatic, but when i select had i didnt, you know i do want a speaker come assistant speaker, i dont want to be the person in charge of the trash. Whatever. I just want to be on the subcommittee on housing. That was my biggest aspiration coming to congress anyways because of my background and what i had seen what has hurt me personally and many other people when people make disparaging comments about People Living in Public Housing. That is not someone that can give you a great choice. My father in his home today, and my goal was to never let him know ahead of time watch on cspan because i dont want him having done all the work he did to give poor kids out to hear some of the things people dont intentionally see. This is the house i lived in for seven years. Six people. My mother, my father, my Three Sisters. Seven years. My father worked three jobs like a lot of the other people, three jobs. Lili taylor, tommy nelson, kitty boston, cleveland, classmates of mine, and their parents doing the same thing. Ive never heard a person say i can hardly wait to get my own Public Housing unit. This is a serious thing for me, my family and a lot of other people. My goal is to do something before you leave here, more than ive done and hopefully can inspire others to want to do some name, to do some major overhauls of some of our policies and mr. Looked at my hair and i, want to ask you a question about that. Hope the one failing will not change the world but it will change the world for that family. People want help and they need it from time to time. If you look at 17 in genesis, going throughout the land coming the land, you stop at a place many theologians called the halfway house. He stayed there until he could find a better route to get to the promised land. A lot of people stay there until they can get someplace else. My father my father sent a mother to college when i was in the seventh grade. I yield back the balance of my time. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from virginia, mr. His finger from the Capital Markets subcommittee. Over in this corner to the right, further twoyear rate. That right . I know configuration is sometimes difficult. I see my colleague has just left and i know is very emotional for him. This is a very emotional issue for a lot of us. In my family a father was born in 1921, he passed away here in half ago. They lived through the depression. My mother lived in flint. That is where she was born and raised. Recently with the flood water crisis that was going on, i went and visited. I asked my mom for a couple addresses for her family had moved around to. Im getting choked up myself. I had my fourth son with me who was third team. And i stopped. I stopped the car in front of the main house that my mother grew up in. I had cousins and uncles and aunts that all lived there, what i had one of my cousins reprimanding and a what were you doing in that neighborhood . I know how hard people have worked to get out of those situations. I saw it. I witnessed it. In cnet with my own mom as well. And it pains me that my colleague, my friend has felt that he has heard disparaging remarks about those who live in Public Housing. That was his quote. I wrote it down. This is the inspirational part. A lot of people stay until they can get somewhere else. And i know that is my goal. I believe that is his cool. I trust that is your goal as well. And i think the question in debate we have is how do we get back to how good . How do we allow that . As ive seen some of your discussions and we got a chance to talk in the past, not everybody takes advantage of those opportunities to move ahead ought to get out of a particular situation. They may believe what you are doing with moving to work, to allow flexibility for the Public Housing authorities, to attract private sector folks in their common attract these outside opportunities is commendable. It is my understanding that about 55 of able bodied adults receiving Housing Assistance are working. That to me is the key. How do we make sure that we are giving those folks who are working hard, you know, nonsenior citizens, nondisabled , ablebodied individuals, you know, do you support these work work requirements and that theyd better be sometimes manage people out of their comfort zone well, thank you for asking that question. You know, we all come at this from different angles and different Life Experiences. But you know, when you really sit down and talk to people from all these different places, we all really have similar wants and desires that we allow ourselves sometimes to be manipulated into thinking we are enemies. We are not enemies. You know, this issue of getting people to excel in realize the talent that god has given them is a serious issue because you know, there are those who would have everybody believe you are the dam and everybodys against you. We need to be concentrating on how can we actually get people to climb the ladder of opportunity . We have to recognize things like education. It doesnt matter where you come from or what your background if you get a good education in this country you can write your own ticket. We need to emphasize that is to be integrated into our living situations as well. Health care needs to be taken out of the political arena. We need to be putting their necks into a neighborhood so people dont use the emergency room as their primary care that costs five times more and also you wind up with all the stage for diseases because people dont have consistent care. All of the things we can solve if we as americans are willing to Work Together and not allow ourselves to be polarized. Closing seconds, i believe we need to look at how current Housing Assistance programs either incentivize that or hinder that opportunity and hope well talk more about that. Absolutely. The china recognizes the gentlelady from new york, ms. Velazquez. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Dr. Courson, i am here. Im the only puerto rican american citizen has a fitness committee. So since i dont have President Trump in front of me, it just would like for you to let him know how shameful all the tweets that he put out this morning, how offended and insulted im as an american citizen. And i would like to suggest that the president gets in history lessons regarding the puerto rican relationship with the United States. In 1898, american troops invaded puerto rico. American troops took over puerto rico. In a team 17, Puerto Ricans didnt invite the United States armed forces. It was invaded. So what not invasion comes responsibility. In a team 17, american citizenship was imposed on Puerto Ricans, timely subeight they could join the armed forces and fight. Is to show up and make and provide the assistance and the relief that american citizens need. They dont need this type of insult. And by the way, why is it that he doesnt put the same to it when it comes to texas or florida . You invaded puerto rico, we invaded, the United States of america invaded puerto rico. My uncle participated in the korean war. We shed blood to defend the freedoms that every american in this country enjoys. So to kick fellow citizens when they are down is shameful. You said that youre providing assistance for those who lost their homes in puerto rico. I hear from the National Low Income Housing Coalition and Affordable Housing groups on the island that the federal governments housing response has not been sufficient. What are you doing . In my hometown we lost 10,000 homes that were destroyed. What kind of assistance are you providing . Well, thank you for asking that question, and, you know, i do sympathize greatly with the people who have lost so much. You know, theres 114,000 singlefamily homes that are fhabacked, and many of them have sustained significant damage. Our people are on the ground including one of our associate Senior Assistant secretaries who is a puerto rican and has been extraordinarily helpful to me. Hes moved over there what kind of assistance are you providing for those who lost their homes . Dozens of others who have gone over this. And what we are providing are insurance for those who have lost their homes through section 203h, 203k for rehabilitation of homes dr. Carson, are you working with some housing groups on the ground . And i will be going to puerto rico myself thats great, but that doesnt provide the assistance that they need today. You know, people are dying. Im very and its the rainy season in puerto rico. I understand that fema promised to bring parts for roofs that were lost. Its the rainy season. People are diagnose people are dying today. Fema is the First Responder there. They are gathering information. Were working with them in that process for the longterm recovery. Dr. Carson, when you were nominated by the president , i said what does he know about housing . But then, you know, youre a doctor, and you say that youre going to take care of those who are suffering from Health Issues in Public Housing. I see a disconnect between your confirmation hearings and your commitment to address the issue of asthma, respiratory illnesses in Public Housing and cutting 2 billion out of the capital and operating funds for housing. The time of the gentlelady has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. Royce. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, at the outset here i just wanted to invite you to come to my district, especially out to san bernardino, california, where the Housing Authority is working on a moving to work program. Its an agency thats been up and running for some time there, and its running very, very effectively. And theyve had a number of successful selfsufficiency programs including Home Ownership programs and term limits on those and work requirements. Wed love to have you see this firsthand if you could. Sure. I wanted to extend that. And i was wondering if you could talk a little more about what the department is doing to advance mtw as its called, the moving to work program, and other sustainable best practices which lift people out of their situation and on to economic independence. Sure. Thank you for that question. The moving to Work Initiative really was to provide various is municipalities with the ability to be flexible recognizing that they were probably the people who best knew what their needs were. And this really allows for a significant amount of innovation. The first 39 districts that benefited from this have produced some pretty good results, and thats resulted in us extending the program to another 100 communities over the next seven years. Im hopeful that well be able to go far beyond that and look forward to working with you on ways that we can expand that program. Thank you. Were looking for everything that is highly effective. Very good. And, you know, some of the programs that have been talked about here this morning have had some components that are highly effective. We are going to make sure that we learn from those things and continue to push those things. There may be different mechanisms to do it, but were not going to abandon those things. That would be foolishness. And two other questions. One is the department, the department is reviewing its policy to allow pace liens on fhafinanced loans. As you know, the defaults on these loans are on the rise. And i was going to ask if you could comment on when you might make a decision on whether to withdraw the current mortgagee letter or clarify how the fha will treat these pace loans. Well, obviously, its a serious issue when you put in the first lien position anybody other than the lender exactly. Thats an issue its very concerning to us. Yes, thats very concerning to me too, and were taking that into consideration. Well have a decision on that soon. And one last question. As you know, mr. Secretary, the gses have engaged in significant credit risksharing transactions. This shields american taxpayers to some extent, and gwen moore and i have a bill to get them to do even more in terms of that approach. Ive been told that the fha may have the authority to do similar risksharing transactions or at least purchase coinsurance to reduce the risk to the public. And i think this could be a very constructive means of reducing taxpayer exposure. Would you support legislation here or regulatory clarification of fhas existing authority to explore credit risk sharing . We have already engaged in some discussions on that or continuing those. Im very much looking forward to having an fha commissioner, but i agree with you that that is an area ripe for discussion and movement. Well, thank you, secretary carson, and ill yield back. Appreciate it. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from ohio, ms. Beatty. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witness for being here. I have a series of questions, and for the sake of time to get through them, many of them, mr. Secretary, ill ask you to simply affirm or deny with a yes or no vote. On july 12th i sent you a letter signed by more than 15 or 20 of my other colleagues as members of congress. And in that letter and i want to, mr. Chairman, enter that letter into the record. Without objection. So first of all, i want to know, did you receive the letter and read it. I dont know what was in the letter, so i cant tell you whether i received it. Okay. It was requesting that you follow through on your predecessors decision to lower these annual premiums citing the fiscal strength of the fund and historically low Home Ownership rates especially among firsttime home buyers. Certainly ive had some correspondence on that, so it was probably your letter. So did you respond to it and i didnt get it . Is that what youre saying . You read it . Did you respond to it or im i personally did not. Did my staff respond to you . I dont know. I think we did from some intergovernmental relations person sent us a paragraph. It was it didnt, it did not, in my opinion, it did not answer my questions. Okay. Well, i can answer for you now. I guess the reason im asking you this, is it your practice when members of the United States Congress Sends a letter personally addressed to you, that you pass it on to a congressional intergovernmental i dont know what that person does relations person to say that they have received it . I did not address it to them. Yeah. Many letters that come do not letters from members of congress . Do not the committee youre testifying in front of . Did not come to me. Im saying it may be sent personally to me, but it doesnt actually end up in my hands. Somebody else is actually looking at it. So you dont get you know, people write me personally all the time. But if a member so let me ask a different question. So if a member of congress is writing to you about issues that youre coming to testify before this committee, you get it, it doesnt get in your hands, and you say, oh, well, so what . You dont answer . No, someone else actually goes through it first, and then they bring it to me. Let me ask a different no, my time. Im going to resend a letter, and im going to ask you, would you answer the letter thats coming from me and 20 other members of congress . If i get when the letter is brought to me, we will give you a response. We or you . I would like to ask would you respond to my i can respond to you right now. Well, i have some other questions, so maybe afterwards ill leave the letter with you, and you can respond to me. So often times when members come here, you represent not only a secretary of housing, but the president. So i have a question for you. Weve spent a lot of time talking about puerto rico and the virgin islands, so this can be yes or no. Do you think it was president ial for President Trump to throw paper towels when he was in puerto rico, yes or no . Thats not a yes or no question. Sure, it is. Yes, it was president ial or, no, it wasnt president ial. I dont believe second question. Do you think it was president ial when President Trump talked about, to members in puerto rico, that they were messing up the budget . You know, i is that president ial, yes or no . I think it would be wonderful if we talked about what we can do to help our people rather than deny them do you think it was president ial when he asked the people in puerto rico how many people had died and then compared it to a greater number in katrina . Again, i think we should be talking about positive things and what we can do well, i think youre absolutely right. And for me, positive like congressman cleaverman, all my life ive wanted to serve on this committee. I didnt live in Public Housing, but i dedicated more than 25 years of my life. My very first job, professional job was working in Public Housing. So let me move to something positive. In this Committee Chairman clayton of the securities and Exchange Commission testified before this committee. He said although he had not asked for more funding in fiscal year 18, that in fiscal year 19 he would be requesting more monies. In fiscal year 18, the budget request from hud, you requested a 15 cut to your budget. Will you be asking for an increase in your, in fiscal year 19 . Thats positive, so i assume youre going to tell me yes. We may well. We continue to ask for what we need based on information that we derive, so evidence is what drives our budget request. Thank you, and i yield back. Time of the gentlelady has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. Posey. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And, mr. Secretary, thank you for appearing today, and thank you for the character and the integrity, the heart and the class and the aspirations that you bring to your position. Many people would say that you had maybe one of the best opportunities in the world to become a failure, to be dependent on government. You proved all the critics wrong, and you became the model of success, of achieving the American Dream and proof that anyone can do it. And i applaud you there. And i think a lot of people applaud you for that. And i applaud you for trying to help others do that too. Thank you. You know, unfortunately theres a lot of people that somehow benefit from people being dependent on government because they think it keeps them being elected. I think selfsufficiency is the way to go, and you obviously do too. And thank you for your efforts to transfer people from dependency to selfsufficiency. I want to apologize for some of the mean and nasty comments made toward you today. Theyre undeserving. They are attempts to shame you while they criticize the government for attempting to shame somebody, the president for attempting to shame somebody. That may be logical to some people, but im sure its probably foreign to you, and youre probably wondering about that. Im used to it. Yeah. [laughter] most intelligent people would. But we all have the same people in our districts. They hate the president , and they hate anybody that doesnt hate the president. So were going to theyre going to be around for a while, so we just get used to it and do the right things for the right reasons which you have a history of doing. Your Florida Initiative to reimagine how hud works, to restore the American Dream and to rethink American Communities is an awesome plan, and my question to you this morning is, you know, how can we become more engaged in helping you achieve those goals . Well, thank you very much for your comments and for that question. You know, i will be coming back to you particularly as we continue to analyze what works, because in order to be efficient we need the ability to be flexible. And to be able to address things quickly so that we dont have to go through so many different channels. Were not just going to come to you vaguely with Something Like that. Were going to say specifically we need to do x quickly. So just be open to that. We want to work with you. We want to benefit from your collective knowledge, experience and the fact that you represent the people. And we are public servants. That means we work for the people. They dont work for us. And, therefore, we need to know through you how we can best serve them. But we want to work with you to do things in an effective way. Well, thank you, mr. Secretary. Clearly, you have a heart of a servant, and you can always count on me, i know, and most of the people here for our support. God bless you. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes the chairman from washington, mr. Hecht. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary carson, ive been interested since i first arrived here in the reverse Mortgage Market and not just because its called the he [inaudible] program as an acronym. We were able to pass legislation giving you more flexibility at the department to run the program with an eye forward improving its financial performance. Right. But its, its always been hard to get a good sense of how the reverse Mortgage Program is doing because the act i chew barrel numbers swing actuarial numbers swing so wildly from year to year. In addition, although the program is small compared to the fha forward Mortgage Program, the swings in reverse mortgages are so large theyre pushing around the capital ratio, as you know, for the [inaudible] fund and affecting mortgage Insurance Premiums for the more stable guard program. I know you havent been through a reporting cycle yet for these act i chew barrel reports, but i wanted to get your initial thoughts on whether youd be open to changes in the framework. Im thinking about asking gao to consider options including moving the reverse Mortgage Program out of the mmi fund or creating a new forecasting assumptions for the reverse program that would create more stability over time and from year to year. What are your impressions . I think thats a very worthy thing to pursue. You know, were looking at just over the last year 7. 7 billion out of the mmi because of heck, m. The changes that weve made as of this month and the ones Going Forward from this point i dont think well have that problem, but we still have the residual problem there. So, yes, i believe that would be a worthy pursuit. Secondly, i want to ask about housing. I think the costs of shelter is kind of rapidly going out of control in a lot of communities, especially in my part of the country. I think part of the reason for that personally is that we have poorly designed federal structure for dealing with housing policy because nobodys looking at the whole picture at all. There are no policymakers charged with looking across the whole spectrum. Its incredibly siloed. Thats not just an observation on the number of programs. Im talking about policy making itself. So even if you look at congress, for example, federal mortgage assistance is spread across agriculture committee, this committee and the Veterans Affairs committee. Even within this committee, the primary Mortgage Market is overseen by Financial Institutions subcommittee while the secondary Mortgage Market is in the housing and insurance or Capital Markets depending on whos doing the securitizing. It may be that a bunch of narrowlytailored programs is the best way to address housing costs, although i frankly doubt it. But as a result of these silos, i think we address the problem, each of the problems in isolation so we separate Home Ownership from rentals, market rate housing from Affordable Housing and the rents too damn high. But my view is housing is an ecosystem. And all the parts are connected. And especially through housing prices. Youre new to this, this whole world of housing policy. And so my hope is that youre kind of looking at it with fresh eyes. Im wondering if you see the same thing i do, that we deal with this in a fractured and fragmented and siloed way . And if you do, do you have any ideas about how we might be able to address it so that we can all get about the business of insuring not just keeping the dream of Home Ownership alive for americans, but also insuring that everybody has a good place, a good shelter, a good home in which to reside . As i say, the number one priority here ought to be blanket, pillow, roof. If you dont have a pillow to lay your head on, a blanket to cover yourself with and a roof over your head, all the other problems in life get amplified very considerably. Well, you know, we do have to make sure that we are willing to work as cross different silos so that do you see it as a problem. So that we can address it holistically. In the past, we have not done that. Ive been engaged with several conversations with secretary mnuchin as well as the nec, the domestic policy council, department of agriculture to develop more holistic approaches to these problems. I think thats the only way were going to get them solved. I look forward to working with you on that. Yield back the balance of my time, mr. Chair. Time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. Ross. Thank you, chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. And, again, i appreciate all your efforts. You know, where im from is Central Florida and the tampa bay area has made quite an expansion in Public Housing and has done, i think, a very good job to the point where theyve got a wait list of 13,000 people. And, you know, were trying to expand it, were trying to work more with, of course, your office. But one of the things that ive got a concern about is the voucher recipients and the portability of vouchers. And i guess my concern is, is that youve got Regional Housing authorities. How can we best design these so that we can get some of these people off of wait lists and, if nothing else, consolidate them, but allow them to have better access to Affordable Housing through this Voucher Program . Well, you know, thats, obviously, a huge issue and a big question, how do we get those waiting lists down. Yep. Should we be prioritizing certain types of people rather than just have a consecutive waiting list. Those are, those are questions that were examining now. Well be happy to work with you on those. But again, the key, i think, is, you know, the Public Private partnerships, programs which have brought in 4. 3 billion of private money to get rid of some of these capital backlogs right. And to create even more housing. And the new tax plan that has been put forward, they recognize how important litak is and have included a way to insure that it remains profitable for people. Because this is how were going to get out of this problem. I agree. Weve got a good Voucher Program. It needs to be able to follow the jobs, because thats important because, of course, it brings dignity. But the incentive of private capital coming into the market to partner with hud is very crucial. And i guess my concern is weve seen some successes in that regard. And not only the capital, but also the discipline and the counseling thats necessary. The family selfsufficiency program, for example [audio difficulty] do you think that thats been a program that we should continue to not only fund, but to expand . Oh, absolutely. Anything that has to doh creating selfsufficiency. And were looking for, you know, innovative approaches for that, you know . One of the things that im looking at in the future is taking a sliver of the monthly subsidy and putting it in what would be like an escrow. Yes. And that would be used for the routine maintenance of that unit. So if theres not a lot of routine maintenance, it just continues to grow and grow. But if the holes poked in the screen and the lightbulbs are broken and the door needs to be painted every time, its not going to accumulate. You let the people know how much money is in it, because that incentivizes them to really take care of the property. And if they leave Public Housing within 510 years, they get that money for a down payment. That has the dual effect of allowing people to get into housing, but it also teaches them the responsibilities of Home Ownership because they start acting like homeowners it changes the culture. Right. It grows appreciation and builds a base of dignity in ownership. And i think exactly. When you talked about in your opening about innovation is key, i think innovation is the absolute compass we need to be following in order to change a model that has not worked very well over the last 50 years. Exactly. Finally, the moving to work program. What more can we to for those that are nonelderly and are workcapable to provide them with a moving to work incentive . Well, the key thing that we have to recognize is that, you know, people have tried, you know, different iterations of that over the years trying to you work and you get out. And as they start climbing the ladder, we pull the rug out from underneath them. Right. What weve got to do is let them get far enough up the ladder that theyre not even looking down to see if there are rungs there anymore. So we just need to understand how that works and the timing of it. I appreciate it. I think that program id like to see it expanded. I mean, it is a Pilot Program, and weve seen it in orlando, its working there. Absolutely. With that, my time is up, and ill yield back. Thank you, chairman. Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from new york, ms. Maloney. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman and ms. Ranking member. Id like to the build on congressman ross questions about mix private partnership Public Private partnership. And you discussed right now the importance of it and is your support for it in addressing our Housing Needs, but in your 2018 budget request you target programs that encourage these partnerships. Personally to leverage, as you said, is so important and not enough dollars out there in Affordable Housing and private housing organizations really fend on these depend on these Government Programs. One in particular, 202, senior housing, theres always a waiting list by seniors needing the housing but also developers who are willing to put it up. But the funding hasnt been there. Im glad to see theres more in this budget, but still its been cut back dramatically, quite frankly, from when i first came to congress. But how can you think the administration can encourage Public Private partnerships if its budget largely cuts out the governments role and cuts the funding for the governments role in the relationship . All right. Well, thank you for that question. I understand the basis of it. You know, heres the situation. Would we like to have almost Unlimited Money to deal with these problems . Absolutely. That would be ideal. But we dont. And we have a 20 trillion national debt. Now, im not going to have to pay it. You probably wont either, although youre younger than i am. You may have to pay some of it thats true, and i want to get on to another question, you know, but if you put your money into things that leverage more money and more housing, its certainly a dollar well spent. And the budget does cut the private Public Partnership section, and my request is to see if we can Work Together to see if we can restore some of it. Absolutely. Be happy to work with you on that. I also, i want to invite you to my district. I represent a lot of hud projects. My mayor, my City Council President , everybodys asking you to come and take a tour. So if youre ever in new york, wed love to set something up for you to look at some of the things we have going on the ground. Okay. But my district is very different, as you know. In new york people dont live horizontally, we live vertically. And we live in coop toes, and we live in coops, and we live in condos. And people are asking for you to revisit opening up assistance to firsttime homeowners. Thats been one of your themes. And right now, especially seniors are asking if the coop owners could be part of huds reverse Mortgage Program. This is the type of housing i represent, and right now coop owners are unfairly excluded from fmas re fhas reverse Mortgage Program. And i would say for no real reason. So my question is, will you consider allowing owners of housing coops to participate in fhas reverse Mortgage Programs . I certainly dont see any reason why we shouldnt engage in that conversation with you. Well, thats great. And lets look at the numbers, and lets see what works. Because im doing things that make sense. Well, thank you very much, because people are requesting that, particularly seniors. And we have not been able to achieve that, so this would be a great breakthrough. Thank you for absolutely. Wanting to look at it. As you know, fha plays a countercyclical role in the Housing Market. It expands in times of market stress, which we went through in 2008. When everyone else is i pulling back, and it shrinks in times of market stability. And the most recent annual report shows that fhas market share has actually diminished substantially since its peak during the housing crisis and has stabilized in these past few years. But despite this, some people continue to claim that the fhas playing an outsized role in the Housing Market and demand that fha shrink. So do you agree that fha is currently playing too large a role in the Housing Market, or, you know yeah. Well, right now were at about 13. 2 . Uhhuh. Which is sort of back down to the prehousing crisis level. It expanded during the crisis, like it should. Its sort of like an accordion. Its a buffer. And thats the way that its supposed to work. Thats the ideal situation. Doesnt mean that there arent some reforms that were looking at to make it even more efficient. But generally, it has a very positive balance, and it allows people to be able to get into homes particularly firsttime home buyers, a lot of minorities. And we want to make sure that we maintain that strength. Thank you very much. Okay. Time of the gentlelady has expired. The chair wishes to inform all members that we will be excusing the witness at 12 30 today. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, mr. Pittenger. Finish. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, thank you again for being with us today. Your demeanor and patience has been exemplary. I have so much appreciation for the focus and clarity of mission that you bring, your Life Experience offers so much for each of us to pay keen attention to. I particularly appreciate all of your continued effortses on behalf of those efforts on behalf of those individuals who are suffering, of course, from the natural disasters that have occurred in our country. We have seen unprecedented damage that has been caused by Hurricane Harvey and irma and maria. Our hearts go out, obviously, to the victims of all of these awful storms. As you are very much aware, a year ago Hurricane Matthew struck North Carolina with subsequent 1,000year floods, severely damaged 98,000 homes and 19,000 businesses. We still have, oh, 150 or so families that are still living in fema trailers. Its affected our poorest counties in our state and, frankly, some of the poorest counties in the country. Some of those counties i know we hope to show you hopefully in early november when you can return to our state. What i would like to ask you, mr. Secretary, is what can you say in terms of what the department is doing on longterm Disaster Relief for these areas that are not in the media and not on everyones attention, but the pain and suffering is still there . What can you say is being done currently . Well, thank you for that. And thank you for your extremely good advocacy for the people of North Carolina. I did have a scheduled visit there, as you know, recently. Then this little problem called harvey came up. Sure. But we are rescheduling that visit to look at that very issue in terms of, you know, the longterm recovery function. You know, we didnt get the final plan from the state in terms of recovery until the 21st of april yes, sir. Of this year. So we, we are working with your state and local officials already and will continue to do so. But we have not by any stretch of the imagination forgotten about that just because these other ones have come up. Are you comfortable that hud has mechanisms in place in not just our state, but all states to insure that money is spent fiscally accountable and in a timely way . For some reason im not hearing well. Well, are you comfortable that the states have accountable structures in place oh. That the taxpayer money is being used in an appropriate way . Let me put it this way. At the state level, there seems to be more accountability than there is frequently at a lower level. So one of the things that im finding just in looking at past data in terms of efficiency, you know, working with the state tends to be a little bit better than working with a hundred different i municipalities. Yes, sir. My district, as you may be aware, includes charlotte. Its a major metropolitan area of our state. Ive got seven other additional rural counties, and and i would like to ask you what is huds involvement in these rural areas particularly and the value that it can bring to these communities . Well, one thing that sometimes people assume is that hud is not interested in rural areas because its called housing and urban development. But obviously, if you look at programs that we have and those in association with usda, we do pay quite a bit of attention, maybe want to rename the department at some point to reflect that. Theres particularly large issues with poverty and with drug use in the rural areas, and we are working with across the silos with the department of justice, department of agriculture on those issues. Thank you, mr. Secretary. And thank you again for your great spirit and your clarity of mission and dedication. Thank you. We truly appreciate you. Thank you. I yield back. Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from michigan, mr. Kildee. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you again, secretary carson, for being here. As i mentioned in my Opening Statement and as we chatted briefly before the beginning of this hearing, im from flint, michigan, a community not far from where you grew up. And a community that has been struggling in many ways for decades but in a particular way for the past few years as a result of the water crisis. And i referenced in your you referenced in your testimony that the department under your leadership intends to take on some of these issues of exposure to toxic chemicals in housing, and lead is a really significant issue. You know as a physician the impact that lead exposure, high levels of lead exposure can have on the brain of a developing child. And so this tragedy, while in the eyes of many is sort of over its not in the news every day its an ongoing struggle. Not only in terms of the infrastructure needs which are slowly being met, the health and Development Needs which are not entirely met and the redevelopment challenge that this Community Faces as a result of a real gut punch to the community. So the challenges that it was already dealing with have been exacerbated by being known as a city of 100,000 people that had poisoned water. The impact on housing values, the impact on Neighborhood Development is palpable, and its dangerous. In the Previous Administration, we had kind of an allhandsondeck approach to flints recovery. And i was pleased to see during the campaign when thencandidate, nowPresident Trump visited flint, he said and im quoting him this is regarding flint we will get it fixed. It will be fixed quickly and effectively. And as i stated, flint is not fixed yet. I reached out to the white house very early on and asked for a point person on flints recovery because there is a legitimate and important federal role in this. Have not received a response. Its important that we have some sense of who we can work with. To your knowledge, is this a point person . I havent been able to get an answer out of the white house. I wonder if you have a sense of that, if theres a point person that we could work with . Well, i agree that there needs to be one, and we certainly will be willing to look into that for you. I appreciate that. And perhaps as we mentioned, you and i could find time to meet. I have a real interest in the work of your department broadly, and id like to share some thoughts with you, but specifically to talk about how my community can continue to receive the support that it surely deserves. Absolutely. So if we can find time to do that, i would enjoy getting on your calendar, so thank you for that. And i know this has been raised, i raised it a bit. The preconditions that led to the crisis in flint are not unique to flint. We have seen a lot of older communities and i heard the reference to not just traditional, large cities, but small towns as well that have not seen the kind of private investment and that still do require some public support for their Development Challenges in order for them to be fully competitive and make the contributions that they should make. So i am really concerned about continuing, deep cuts to the Community Development block program, for example. A highly flexible program, a form of federal investment that really defaults to the states and in many cases directly to local jurisdictions making decisions for themselves as the what their needs might be. You know, as in the case of any program, there could be problems. But what i fear is that this administration and im really interested in your take on this is taking a throw the baby out with the bath water approach. This is a really Important Program that is essential to lots of communities. And you help me understand what your position is on this yeah. This Important Program . My position is we should save the baby. Dont throw it out with the bath water. The fact of the matter is, as ive mentioned before, there are multiple good things in these programs that have been very effective, some of which youve just mentioned. We will make sure that those things continue. So long i appreciate that. So long as we dont take the approach that the only way to help the programs is to just make them so small as theyre not consequential any longer. I agree that theres a need for change. Ive talked to the Ranking Member about changes in cdbg that im interested in pursuing. So so long as the solution is not simply to, essentially, eliminate the program over time, im happy to work with you on that. Thank you very much. Absolutely. Thanks for your testimony. Time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. Rothfus. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Good morning, mr. Secretary, welcome. Morning. My district is home to an Organization Called hearth which provides vital Transitional Housing Services to victims of domestic violation. For more than 20 years, women and families in Allegheny County fleeing Domestic Abuse have had a reliable place to go to that provides protection from danger. Hearth has provided hundreds if not thousands of my constituents with a safe space and the support they need to transition to permanent housing. Hearth has a Compelling Mission and it fulfills a priceless service for the community. This program has a strong track record because it provides residents with the Supportive Services they need to transition to selfsufficiency. Despite this, hearth and similar providers have lost or are in danger of losing their hud funding unless they abandon the services and high standards that have contributed to their success. This tie into the Housing First policy that my colleague, mr. Barr, raised earlier in the context of drug treatment programs. Under your predecessor, hud adopted the Housing First policy and deprioritized programs that failed to conform to that orthodoxy. Indeed, continuums of care were told that hud will be less generous in funding transitional programs. I asked secretary castro about his position on transitional Housing Programs like hearth and their future place in our Housing Assistance toolbox. I greatly i would generally characterize his response as a full endorsement of the Housing First policy which, again, is going to entail a depriorityization of transitional housing. I would appreciate your talking a look at this issue, and id appreciate your feedback on whether you think that we have to really keep our eye on the ball on transitional house anything the context of this Housing First policy. Id be very, very happy to work with you on that. But everything that were going to do is going to be driven by the numbers, driven by the evidence, whats actually effective. And again, when i talk Housing First, i may be talking something a little different than what previous secretary was talking. Okay. We want to follow up with you on that, because we want to make sure that this orthodoxy that he was going after isnt negatively impacting really good programs. Right. That have been really beneficial to our community. I agree. A number of folks have mentioned the moving to work program. Weve had hearings about that, and its been discussed today. I believe that this Program Offers flexibilities that can help Public Housing authorities better serve their local populations. My district has one of the housing authorities does have a moving to work program. There are others that would like it. And im, i want to hear from you whether you support the expansion of the moving to work program. I was very happy with the expansion to another hundred areas, and im hopeful that we can with the help of Congress Move far beyond that. Yeah, id like to see it really transition from being a Pilot Program. Its been a Pilot Program since 1996. I dont know how long you have to have a program be a Pilot Program. [laughter] one of the three National Program objectives for cbdg is that projects principally benefit low and moderate income persons. Critics have noted that the funds often end up being used for parks, pools, street signs and community centers, key accelerating dollars from those communities diverting dollars from those communities with the greatest need particularly in housing. In your testimony for the House Appropriations committee this past june is, you stated that the cdbg program is, quote, not well targeted to the poorest populations and has not demonstrated a measurable impact on communities. Can you elaborate on that . Yeah. Very much some of the same things that you just mentioned in the question. And some abuses that are even more significant than that. This is a program that, again, has some very good components. And the things that are good in that program and home program, in various programs were not just going to abandon those things. [laughter] were going to, obviously, utilize the information in order to improve what were able to do. You mentioned in your testimony before the House Appropriations Committee Earlier this year that the first hud secretary, robert weaver, said that we must look for human solution ises not just policies solutions not just policies and programs. What do you think he meant by i hope what he meant is that we need to be looking at the people themselves as opposed to just the concept of sticking them in a house and thinking that our job is done. If we develop the Human Capital that exists here, it benefits us all. It sounds like that would still be relevant today, as relevant today as it was when secretary weaver first said that. Would you agree with that . That, that would be the way that i would look at it. Thank you, mr. Secretary. I yield back. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Gonzalez. I yield to the Ranking Member. I yield my time. Thank you very much. I appreciate having the time. Im sitting here, and im listening to how much you care about the most vulnerable in our society and how you want to help people become independent and out of poverty, and yet your budget and what you are advocating for and what you are advocating against does not really define your representation that you care about these vulnerable people. Youre cutting Public Housing by 2 billion. Housing chart vouchers by 2 billion. You have members on the opposite side of the aisle talking about programs that are funded by the Community Development block grant, they dont even know that youve completely eliminated that. The Home Investment Partnership program, we talk about the National Housing crisis that we have, and the National Housing trust fund is completely eliminated. And the charts Neighborhood Initiative eliminated. And, you know, section 811 housing for persons with disabilities cut by 121 million. And so theres one thing that stands out in my mind based on the campaign and and looking at what happened in the primaries and things that the president said and how he talked to you and others and demeaned you so much. But one of the things that stands out in my mind so vividly is how he mocked and mimicked a disabled journalist. And so you have, lets say he has openly mocked disabled people, and huds most recent Budget Proposal which is supported and defended proposes a steep 18 cut for section 181 program which is focused 811 program which is focused on serving low income persons with disabilities as well as rent increases on section 811 residents. This is very concerning in light of the Critical Role that hud plays in providing Housing Assistance for low income persons with disabilities as well as enforcing the Fair Housing Act which protects persons with disabilities against discrimination in the Housing Market. Do you remember seeing that display by the president where he mocked and and mimicked a disabled journalist . Do you remember seeing the sight of that . I remember seeing the episode that youre referring to. Do you think it was wrong for the president to send that kind of message about what he cares about, disabled people . Well, you know, im not really here to talk about the president. I really want to talk about the people that were trying to well, yes, i want to talk about the people too. Right now i want to talk about the disabled people. And i want to know if his attitude is such that it is reflected in this budget. And you defend the budget, and are you defending in any shape, form or fashion the fact that the person who wanted to be the president of the United States of america for all people would treat disabled people that way . What do you think about that . As a pediatric neurosurgeon, you know, a large portion of my patients were disabled people. All right. So you do care about disabled people, is that right . Of course. When youre in front of disabled people who are advocating for resources to help with their lives and they ask you about the president and the fact that he mocked and mimicked disabled journalists during the campaign and they ask you do you defend the president in doing that, what did you say to them . I would say that im going to use the resources and the tall lens that we have talents that we have to look out for the interests of the disabled people. Were going to commit to making sure that so do you think the cut of 121 million is a demonstration of your support for the disabled, section 811 housing for persons who are disabled . I would say its not the amount of money, its the result that you get thats important. I beg your pardon . I cant hear you. I would say its not the amount of money, but rather the result that you achieve thats important. Well, you keep talking about the amount of money, but you know your real concerns and what you care about is reflected in the budget. And it is difficult for me to believe that you really care about the disabled when you are cutting the resources to them because of the difficulty in their lives and the tremendous needs that they have. It is difficult for me to believe you care about them with these kind of cuts. I yield back. Time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. Williams. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ask thank you, secretary carson, for being here today. Thank you for your testimony. Absolutely. On a personal note, id like to thank you for reaching out to those of us who were involved in the baseball shooting. Yes. Appreciate that very much. Also want to thank you for your leadership. Ive been around leaders all my life, and youre a leader. Thank you for that. And also i want to thank you for what youve done in texas. Im from texas. Yes. I want to thank you for what youve done in texas with Hurricane Harvey, for reaching out quickly, your response has just demonstrated swift action and resolute, and texans are grateful for what you, for what youve done. And im also happy that in such a pivotal time for our country, history of our nation, that your leadership understands the challenges we face. We talked about them today, and you understand the actions necessary to be the best possible steward of the taxpayer, which is important. Thank you. While assisting those in need to achieve their godgiven potential. So, mr. Secretary, i want to start by talking about faas Mortgage Insurance Program fha, which so many in my district have addressed with my staff and myself. Were aware of complaints from mortgage leonards who are being subjected to costly investigations and lawsuits by the department of justice for their participation in the Mortgage Insurance Program. While i applaud effort toss penalize lenders who deliberately submitted false or fraudulent mortgages, many lenders are being asked to pay penalties for loans that were reviewed and audited by the fha and hud. These actions forcing many lenders making it difficult for many firsttime home buyers to purchase homes. Can you explain what circumstances would institute a penalty on a lender after fha and hud have approved their mortgage . It has been a problem because of all the red tape and all the regulations. And theres so many traps shove to involved involved. When people do things that are really nonmaterial mistakes, and then they find themselves in the kind of difficulty that would basically drive them away from even wanting to be involved in the first place. Ive talked to attorney general sessions about that, and my staff and staff from doj are working on those regulatory barriers that are precluding people from wanting to get involved. The hud work force, which you supervise, is just short of 8,000 fulltime employees. In comparison to some federal agencies, this may appear to be fairly lean. 8,000 is hard to saline. But given the responsibilities and scope of the department, many could argue that the organizations unnecessarily large. Do you have the flexibility and authority to right the size of the department if needed and moving resources and employees as needed to meet the goals that you and the president have set . I think, i think we have close to what we need. Weve come down from 15,000 to 8,000 in recent years. And are looking with a very careful look at the actual need to hiring and bringing people on and utilizing them effectively and utilizing people in multiple areas in order to increase the efficiency, recognizing that we do have to be stewards of taxpayers money. Well, and then what challenges stand in the way of you organizing your department to achieve the best return on taxpayer investment, which would be cost and which would be cost and return . Well, what weve done is divided people into work groups with captains who are responsible, who bear some fiscal responsibility so that we dont simply say to the cfo which we dont have right now [laughter] that its your responsibility. And i think the more we can distribute that responsibility and make people responsible, the more fiscally responsible theyll be. Lastly, one of the promises President Trump made to the American People was to direct his administration to decrease regulation in order to spur growth. Regulations chill growth. Since you assumed your current position, what steps have you and President Trump taken to roll back harmful regulations in the housing industry . Well, we have established a Regulatory Reform committee, and they work through the office of the general counsel looking at major regulations. Were going, we have about ten of them right now which were looking to be able to get rid of on the way to quite a few more than that. Thank you again for being here. Thank you for your testimony. I yield my time. Thank you. Time of the gentleman has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from nevada, mr. Cuen. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you, mr. Secretary, for being here and for sharing your testimony and also your time as well. We know youre a very busy person, and we appreciate you taking the time to be here. Mr. Secretary, as you know, las vegas was the epicenter of the foreclosure crisis. My neighbors lost their home to foreclosure, i lost my home to foreclosure. The American Dream of Home Ownership from all these families ripped away. In the intervening years, las vegas masker thankfully, recovered. Foreclosures have slowed down. Our economies has continued to grow at a healthy pace. Were adding tens of thousands of jobs a year. However, Housing Stock isnt being built at the proportional rate. Were starting to see both home sale and rental prices rising at an alarming rate. Yearoveryear housing prices were up 13. 7 from september 2016 to september 2017. The Apartment Vacancy rate is one of the lowest in the country at 3. 1 . In clark county as a whole, we need more than 157,000 Affordable Housing units, but we only have 31,870 available. And theyre not keeping up with the increasing costs of the housing, so that will be the solution to many of the issues that are going on in our country, including the social issues because people get more irritable when theyre not doing well economically. Hud saw the Budget Proposal, the Home Investment Program would be elamed, the city of North Las Vegas relies on home to expand Affordable Housing options. What is local governments can pick up the slack . Is it your opinion that theyre just out of luck . And the federal government shouldnt be assisting them . Certainly looking for state and local governments to play a bigger role. Theres no question about that. But in terms, as ive said before, of the good things that programs do, including the home program, we examine those thing and look at the best ways to continue them. Thank you, mr. Secretary. The last question, according to executive directoff 0 of the Southern Nevada Regional Housing proposal your proputs fiscal 2018 budget would make it, i quote, difficult to keep if we maintenance of Housing Units for the public ump just read a slew of statistics that clearly show me were not going to need less Public Housing Going Forward but more. If our local experters are saying your budget is going to make it harder for them to just maintain what we have, how can we fulfill huds mandate of helping the American People put a roof over their heads . I hope that will be one of the reasons i can count on congress to help lift the cap on rent because thats how we get rid of those cap need backlogs. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Yield back. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from maine. Thank you, mr. Chairman, very hutch. Mr. Carson, wonderful to hear, i appreciate it very much. Good to see you again. Dr. Carson, i represent rural mississippi, note urban parts. You might not be familiar with this but mainees the oldest average age in the country. Its maine, not arizona or florida. Worry about folks in the rural area, our seniors, and worry about making sure we have a very strong safety net for those that are less fortune. Sevens are also great teachers. My mom is 89, my dad is 87. I love them to death. Very close to my parents and in their life and stage in their life. I remember when we were kids growing up in central maine it was a vibrant area, a lot of paper mills that were just humming along, and folks were happy and taking care of themselves. My parent were always working, and im sure similar to your situation in some regard, dr. Carson, my dad was a teacher and coach and always traveling. When he wasnt teaching, he was refereeing High School Basketball around the stayed. Its an eight hour drive from one part of my district to the other. My mom was a nurse. Worked the night shift at working home sod she was home when my brother and i got back from school. So we drew if with campt passion, in summer they worked, what may parents taught me, is not what they said, its what they showed me. It was honesty, compassion, and hard work. Yes. Hard work. Now, my first fulltime job was when i was 12 or 13. Worked for 50cents an hour pupping gas on a marina in a little lake in maine. I worked 40 hours a week and got a 20 bill. I was just on my way. Remember the excitement and purpose i had getting up every morning and making my lunch and going to work. My next job was working at a restaurant running the Cash Register for a buck an hour. Now two 20 bills working 4 hours a week. This is what learned. Now, what i have found is that theres so many people, mr. Carsson, that look for the perfect job. Retirement. You live long enough you know theres no perfect job. The value of work is the journey. You learn something from every job. You find dignity and selfpurpose and thats what your kids see and your grandkids see. That is the value of hard work. Now, i have one son who is 26. We are very close. He is a hard worker. I worry about sam all the time. Worry about his generation and i worry about him less because he knows the value of hard work. I can even imagine, mr. Carson, raising my son to say, okay, now you have had a good education, know how to work. Now we want to make sure you sign up for every Government Program you fine, and i know you believe the same thing. My question thank you, circumstance is you believe in the dignity and the selfpurpose of hard work. What it shows the next generation. What are you good folks doing at hud to make sure that our families, are up wardly mobile, can escape government depend defense dependence and have better lives and more freedom. Thank you for the question. We developed a concept called enVision Centers. It comes from the bible verse, probable very 29 18 that says without a vision the people perish. En you go into the low economic areas and you say to the kid, what could doo you wasnt to do when you grow up you get a blank stare, sometimes you the get a few things. But theres a thousand things and Vision Centers are to expose them to the other 8995. And tell them how to the other 995 and tell them how to getly and serve as a mentorship program. Its been demonstrate by studies that low income students who are mentored have a much Higher High School Graduation rate than those who do not. Also, facilitates child care because so many of the young women get pregnant and their education end at that point. We want them to get their high school diploma. We want to get their bachelors degree, mavsers degree, become independent and teach that to their children so we break the cycle of dependency that have occurred, and its also going to be a uniter for health care, clinics, whole host of things that to really expose young people, because a lot of them have not really been exposed to those things that are necessary in order to be successful in our society. Thank you for what you do for our country, mr. Carson. I yield back my time. Time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman recognizes from texas, mr. Green. I thank the witness for appearing. Mr. Carson, mr. Secretary, dr. Carson, you have indicated that there will be substantial cuts to budget that hud has. Can you give me the dollar amount . Im showing its 6 billion. Is that correct . About right. Is that 13 of the budget. Yes. Will the cuts come from public house, hogue vouchers, Community Development block grants and other aid to low income persons . They come from a variety of sources including how much from Public Housing . Probably in the neighborhood of if you combine all the programs, two to three billion. Two to three billion. How much from housing vouchers, mr. Carson . Rather than go through a quiz on the number its not a quiz. Have the time to ask you questions about things you should have some knowledge of. If you have no knowledge, you can say. So ill accept it as an answer, but this is something that is win your bailiwick, my dear sir. How much from housing voucher. Again, can give you that number but well, if you would give it to me i would greatly appreciate. Id like to go on to Community Development block grant. Heres my point. I agree with you that its difficult to do these things that has to the do with my question. Youre answering a question im not asking to be candid. Will you kindly tell me how much hud is going hutch youre going to cut from the hud budget as it relates to housing vouchers . If you dont know, its okay to say you dont know. Dope hold you to things you dont know. Lets just move on and say that i dont want to offer a number because its such why would the secretary of hud not give the number, the amount youre cutting from housing vouchers, mr. Carson . Because youre the secretary of hud. Youre making the cut. Because we have already talked about the total amount of the cuts. Well, the total amount does not help me when it comes to the housing vouchers. I have people who use housing vouchers and i need to be able to explain to them, mr. Carson, how much the cut portendses for them. How much, mr. Carson . Lets hear your number. Well, mr. Carson, forgive more for coughing. Mr. Carson, youre the witness testifying today. And if you want a moment to ask someone behind you, i would gladly accord you that moment. I dont want to open the book and look at the numbers. I see. You choose not to say how much youre cutting from housing vouchers. How much are you cutting forgot Community Block grants. I want to talk debt. You dont get to talk about what you want to today. You get to talk about what want you to talk about. You get to answer the question is pose. But i also want to answer the question you can answer them the way you want but it but if you want tee lack of knowledge you can do that. How much from the block grants, mr. Secretary. Im, anytime not you dont know how much from Community Development block grants. Not going the list this much, this much and this much. Ill move on, mr. Carson. Accept your lack of knowledge. Now, mr. Carson, there seems to be a belief among the ranks of those who have opportunities to help others, who have been blessed themselves, they seem to think that the rich need more, that the poor can do more with less but the rich will have to have nor do more. Mr. Carson, if poor people could do more with less, there would be no poor people. Poor people are not poor because they choose to be. I know about your state of mind comment. But theyre not poor because they choose to be poor. Have you not noticed just for edification purposes im sure youre aware of it but the but there may be people listening who are not. Black unemployment, mr. Carson, is always, with and exceptions, about twice that of white unemployment. There are many rones many reasons for this but that fact has a hot to do with what people can do with money that they have and what they cant do with the money they dont have. There are other factors involved in this country other than a state of mind. There is still, mr. Carson, discrimination in the United States of america. While you may not suffer it, there are others who do. And they need to know what you plan to do, and i regret youre unable toll us today. Yield back the balance of my time, mr. Chairman. The positions you ascribe to me are your opinion of what i think. Theyre not what i think. Mr. Chairman if he chooses to respond and say this, i then the time let him know that my positions at the time of the gentleman has articulated and did not expired, the chair now wreck nyes the gentleman from new york. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Secretary carson, is there anything that you would like to say . Using my time . Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Sometimes i get at tired of people ascribing to me things that people have said that i believe, and i appreciate an opportunity to say this. When i say that poverty is largely a state of mind, what i am saying is that the way that people approach things has a lot to do with what happens to them. If your mind set is one that im a victim and everybody else is in control of my life and i just need to sit here and wait for them to do something for me, you are going to approach life very differently from somebody who says im going to take this issue into my own hands. One thing learned from my mother. She came from a very large rural family, got married when she was 13. Later on discovered her husband was a bigamies, had on a third agreed education, worked three jobs as a time. One thing about my mother, she was never a victim. She never allowed to us be victims. And that was very important, and she did that for other members of our family, too, who are in a very bad situation, and she convinced them they didnt have to be there and they came out of that situation. She was really quite an interesting person. Now, i realize that not everybody has a mother like mine, but i also recognize that we as a society would do much better if we stopped sitting around trying to tear each other apart start saying, what can we do to change the attitudes and to create different outcomes from people . There are those who allow themselves to be manipulated and to just creating dissense rather than trying to figure out a way we can actually solve a problem. Isnt that what this whole government was supposed to be about . Representatives who can help us solve the problems. Not people who simply it there and try to tear things down and try to create dissension. This is the United States ofmer, a place that rose from nowhere to the pinnacle of the world in record time, why . Bus way created an atmosphere of innovation. Were there mistakes on probably . Absolutely. Are we a Perfect Society . No, because we consist of human beings. Thats why we need a savior. But we really can do much better than what were doing if we stop fighting each other and start figuring out how were going to solve these problems. Thank you, mr. Secretary, for being here, for your service. You are someone who wants to lift people up and provide a more opportunity, not to keep them struggling but to have all the abilities, all the tools necessary to be able to rise up out of that situation for a better life. Feel like our country is blessed to have you serving as our secretary of hud. It is a calling that hopefully will provide agreed opportunity for you to empower Many Americans desperate for your leadership to help them have that ant. Want to speak about veteran homelessness. On any gift night with hud numbers 40,000 veterans in the United States are struggling with homelessness. Any veteran who raise their hand willing to serve our country should have a roof over their head, shoes on their feet, food on their table so the ultimate goal for that number will always be pursuing the permanent solution of zero. We know that Voucher Programs which give flexibility to americans struggling from Affordable Housing has been shown to be more effective than the traditional Housing Project programs. I applaud your efforts to move more to avoucher model at hud for all Housing Programs. Earlier you note it the agencying making paroling but the program is in need of more flexibility to get the voucher in the right hands and the right place. Additionally you spoke about the expansion of Public Private partner ships and increasing collaboration of your agency with nothing nonprofits to assist in veteran housing. Stand eager to work with you. Im sure many of my colleagues are as well, with the ultimate goal of getting to zero veteran housing homelessness. I thank youor again for your leadership. Yield back. Thank you. Chair you recognize the gentle lady from utah, ms. Love. Thank you, secretary carson, for being here today. Id like to talk about the moving to work program, which is meant to give Public Housing authorities the flexibility to pursue Innovative Strategies to increase Housing Choices for low income families. Ultimately to encourage economic selfsufficiency. This program now operating at only 39 of the proximate 3,200 housing authorities in the u. S. , was authorized to expand to more to 100 more agencies, more than two year ago through the consolidated appropriations act of 2016. Your department, both under your predecessor and now under your leadership, has moved slowly and cautiously on this directive from congress to expand that. Hud has mitted some of its deadlines. From that viewpoint, some of our housing authorities, looks like hud is trying to add more regulations to a program that was designed for deregulation. Two of my home state housing authorities of Salt Lake City and Salt Lake County are desperately awaiting the chance to apply. Its a chance redesign and streamline antiquated hud programs to meet local needs more directly and success. My how can we help you advance the moving to work program so that local agencies can apply for and it hopefully gain that flexibility that theyre seeking . Well you have already helped me by that question because i wasnt aware that was going on, that we were trying to increase the regulations rather than decrease them. Thats the exact opposite of what should be doing. So we will look into that. Can you tell us more generally about your assessment of the moving to work program, has it been successful in moving more people to economic selfsufficiency . As we know, and i think that we can all agree on both sides of the aisle that we should not be in the business of giving people exactly what they need to stay exactly where they are. We should be giving people opportunities to be able to have their needs met and then be able to move out of there and be contributing member offed society and help their communities. Yes. So, can you tell me how successful this program has been in helping people move and be selfsufficient . Yes. First of all, we discovered through the program we have some incredibly innovative people. If we take the barriers out of the their way. Theyre able to see the community they live in and see the opportunities that exist in their community, and therefore they can design the program in order to take advantage of what exists where they are, not what exists in washington, dc. Thats one of the reasons that the 39 programs that exist have done well enough that the expansion was authorized. I think the expansion probably should be authorized far beyond another hundred. It is working and were continuing to accumulate data but it all is pointing in the same direction and that is giving local control as long as you have responsibility. We have to have a way that we measure what theyre doing and make sure that were not having any type of inappropriate activity going on, but as long as we have that in place, this is clearly the way to go. I just have two thing is want to bring up quickly in the minute i have left. According to cbo, federal spending on programs to serve low income families was approximately 744 billion in 2016. To take in couldnt 80 programs throughout the 13 different federal agencies. That doesnt include the states that are helping out. Im trying to figure out how much goes to brick and mortar . A comment you made dish think it was good comment that as a bureaucrat you are going to be a fish out of water and i want you to be a fish out of water but a it should be uncomfortable. We shouldnt be sustaining bureaucrat. We should be sustaining people. And i want you to keep conscious of the fact that thats programs are meant to make sure that we make it to so that people can have an opportunity to get out of the simple. We should be enincentivizing Good Behavior and people who want to get up and most people, people that are there they do. They want to be master of their own life. I agree. Thank you for being here. The time of the gentle lady has expired. The chair expects to clear one more member in the queue. The chair recognize the gentleman from michigan, mr. Trott. Thank you for being here today, and i represent michigans 11th district, Oakland County and western wayne county so were awfully very familiar. Proud of your dedetroit roots and happen to report to you that detroit is making quite a comeback under mayor duggan and i know you visited. Yes. I was very impressed. As am i. So im the last person so im going to end with a couple of compliments. Ive been in congress about three years, and more onthan not the witnesses that appear before us do what we call the old political pivot and gate question they dont like or feel insulted by or is selfserving from the person who is asking the questions and they talk about something else. You have actually sat here all morning and ive been watching in my office and been here in the committee room, you have listened to our questions and done your best to once our questions and question suspect its because youre smarter than most of us andover have been one of the more productive witnesses ive seen in my time in congresses and i want to compliment you on tet approximates choice, i think Bryan Montgomery is the fha committer, served with distinction toward the end of the Bush Administration and will be a great asset for you at hud. Absolutely. Thats talk about the fha program. A gate article from july of this year, written by David Stevens from the mba, and talks about the unprecedented use of the false claims act by hud and the department of justice starting around 2011 under president obama, and false claimed act is a very important federal statute promulgated under president lincoln to deal with profiteers who were supplying the union army and cheating the government. Used to deal with Medicare Fraud and to deal with defense contractors who are ripping taxpayers off, and so im all for the false claims act being used, but are you familiar at all with how its been used in the context of fha lending and ramifications. Very much so. I believe you attorney general sessions could easily solve that problem and the consequence of the improper use of the false claims act item pose outrageous penalties for lenders to immaterial defects in loan originals files on fha loans the consequencers are many lenders left the fha program and the who have stayed, its moe costly for the borrowers. Dueover have any plan to quickly address that problem . We are already addressing that problem. Our staff, along with the doj staff, and were committed to getting that resolved because its ridiculous, quite frankly, and im not exactly sure why there had been such an escalation previously, but the longterm effects of that escalation is obviously providing fewer appropriate choices for consumers and thats exactly the opposite of what who can least afford it. Right. Great. Thats good news on the way limit know the mba has done a great white paper on the issue and commend it to you in terms of seeking out an easy solution that could be put in playing about congressional action. I dealt with hud for many years in my prior life, and i always found its been a real interesting dichotomy. Youve have been attacked for the budget issues that you propose for hud, and some people think that we have unlimited amounts of money here in washington. Theres a debt clock that will tell you differently. Your answer has been a good one, which is im more interested in results than am in funding, and we have to get results for the people that need and it for our taxpayers. In my experience with hud, you have talk about the reforms youre working on. The field office need to be empowered. I agree. Like tip oneills politics, all politic is is local and all housing is local. The more fee field offices can act and focus on results and the department in washington is folk accused on big picture, broad issues, you get better results. I comment that you, number one. Two, i guess this is more of a lecture than a question but in my experience, it was very important that hud try to partner whenever possible and not like under second cuomo i was an adversarial authority between the local and state housing agencies and hud. They should be partners to deliver results and the best results are delivered local and closer to home than here in washington. So i commend that to you as you look at reform and it believe my time has expired but i thank you for your time today and your insightful testimony. Attorney general lynch said cant help you 74 times. Time has expired. The chair now recognizes the Ranking Member for unanimous consent request. I would like to submit to the record unanimous consent to submit the National Housing law projects opposition to the funding in hud, particularly on the 3 billion at cbdg without ox. S lost in Substance Abuse without ox. 9 million bill case, id like to thank secretary carson for his testimony today without once allmer membered have five legislate liveties to submit wherein questions to the witness through the chair for his response. I would asks secretary carson, you please respond as promptly as you are able. This hearing i adjourned. Thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] rater today the executive editors of the Washington Post and the New York Times will gather to talk about the first amendment, the media, and President Trumps statements on freedom of the press. That will be live at 8 00 eastern on our companion network cspan and also online at cspan. Org and you can listen with the free chance radio app. This wednesday, attorney general Jeff Sessions will testify at a Justice Department oversaying hearing by the Senate Judiciary committee. Live coverage is 10 00 a. M. Eastern on chance and online at cspan. Org and the free cspan radio app. When the u. S. Senate returns in half hour at 4 00 eastern after being away for a weeklong state work period, Senate Lawmakers expected to complete work on the nomination of the u. S. Ambassador to vatican with a confirmation vote at 5 30 everyone. This week in the senate, 36point pa billion in dart relive and the budget resolution. This house is on a district work period and due to return next monday. See he house live on cspan and the senate here on cspan2. Until the u. S. Senate returns, a portion now of todays washington journal looking at lobbiest spending during the trump presidency. At the table now with tony ma see ya, first time guess for you, with the leak woo he standard and the topic is lobbying spending during the trump presidency. Heres a binge of a piece you write, lobbying money spikes under President Trump so far and you write that self months in into churn Session Congress hag passed for large legislation, republicans control both house and the white house and failed to produce a new health care bill. Now the effort to appears to be growing his ambitious for tax reform. Can be tempting to declare this is a do Nothing Congress but a review of Public Disclosure record shows that congress is usuallily busy being lob yesterday by business groups and interests. Tell us more. Guest you heard a lot of frustration over the last few