Isnt that just racism . On what basis, what argument can the process be made where its okay for certain people to be overrepresented and not others. Its a complicated question and im glad that i am not on the committee at harvard. [laughter] im Maria Costigan i work for the council on foreign relations. I was wondering if either of you had noticed a difference in awareness to what the other country is doing education wise in the United States. If you look at where they are insecure, its education. If you look at the president of china, he doesnt seem insecure about anything but their sending teachers over to the uk, to the netherlands, to australia to learn and they are not surprisingly, they are not looking at how were teaching, theyre looking at how we get students interested in learning. Theyre bringingsome of that back. So what i do worry about is its not coming the other way. Theres not a lot of resistance to americans, education, learning from other circles. Theyre talking about it but when you try to filter some of that down, it feels uncomfortable to have that discussion. It translates into a different language here. A lot of the discussion about grits, when theyre talking about what our students need to do is be grittier, i. E. They just need to persevere regardless of whether they think they can achieve or are getting good feedback, so but you cannot say that idea is confirmation even though it clearly does but theres a way in which if you ask me about in my book im interested in electronics but im also interested in bringing to our own attention that our own individual and specific needs, you cannot say anything which is antiindividual and i wonder how healthy that is . Like i say, we ourselves were not always in the individual workplace and the question is does it work for us and obviously, were so busy protecting the students to esteem that we cant get them to sit there a little longer. They gave a test where there is no answer to the questions , to these kids in japan. They suffer these problems indefinitely. Actually, theres no answer. But the american kids, that is his old problem probably but they have to persevere thesethings down. Us kids on the other hand, 30 seconds and they gave up. I dont know what the answer is and in any field, i dont think there was any field where people have not achieved a tremendous level of perseverance so the degree to which our individual work force has led to this hiker protection of our avocado pit has led to an inability to persevere. Its quite a problem. Thats what i said in my wall street journal essay a couple weeks ago where you have to think about isnt the individual going a little bit too far where teachers are spending time attending to individual needs that maybe arts, im talking about the ones that are necessary. Life preserving. The ones that dont have do with learning. We should have a talk about this, what are we doing and i think thats going to serve our students. If they cant masturbate asic map rights, who is hurt by that . Your protecting their selfesteem but you have not served that student. Its hard to make that connection, school math correlates to earning a couple decades later and thats something that sounds kind of achy but itstrue. If you look at the research stuff. Hello, petrus bacillus. Thats how i got the invite for today. Im coming from greece so i was educated in greece and then the us. My dear friend is from hong kong so some of this stuff you are talking about, especially the chinese part resonates more with my greek background but then because i was educated in that system. What ive said through my journey was different and what you said about corruption and these kind of innercircle concepts resonated. One thing i would like to ask is to what extent do you think that students think that for people to do good by the innercircle, that concept means in asia or in china to these kids, people still have here in america but they just call it defending. Ill give you an example. In china you would have a couple of the kids you mentioned helping out someone in your innercircle, we call that potentially corruption. You come here, you go to the same school and you help out someone from your school you call that networking. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that. Because were taking i realize i should say this as a primer, i talked about painting and this man was a distant relative of the family, it was not like i didnt know what was happening and nothing ever came of the gift. Just to be clear, for the record. Do you want to take a first stab at this . I think thats good advice. I think its human nature to make these circles and it doesnt always have to be corrupt. It really doesnt. I will say that if it was something that i really talked about the asian system, i think its that there is a strong boundary between the in group and the outgroup so the problem with that strong boundary is that you ask people why are people so kind in the watertown and so honest and then why are they, they just cant give it enough to the americans. Why is that . The answer is looking beyond the outcome, they dont regard as being human so theres a completely different set of rules for inside and outside. And i think that for all the, theres a lot of wonderful things taking care of the elderly, there are many things, just the sheer warmth of human relationships. There are many things about the system that are great but when you think about the way japanese soldiers treated even the chinese and other people during world war ii, you realize well, that strong boundary is quite a problem. But its changing rapidly. If you look at the eight years since ive been in shanghai that i thought would never happen in 2010. Ive been a charity ball where they raised 8 million for poor rural kids education and that was unthinkableeight years ago , the person giving the get anything out of it except that they said at fancy tables, theres a face element to raising the paddle for one or 2 million so if you get to that part of the culture, but exchanging because people are realizing you have to get back and thats why shanghai, i was talking about this earlier. I feel like evan osgood does this where especially things like new york, la, we all want the same things. We are all now proceeding in a more global marketplace and our needs arent that different when you talk about urban educated class. So its just something to remember. [inaudible]. I was just on my way to shanghai and my company is taiwanese but we work primarily out of lebanon and we have an office here. I feel personally invested in everything that youre telling, i spent some time in taiwan and i went through that. That system compared to my experience in the us, one thing that i noticed when i was in china and new orleans, i was reading a lot of articles about i would call maybe the mainland taiwan culture of these schooling systems that are a little bit different and one thing ive noticed over the past decade, there seems to be a creative renaissance going on. Theres more freewheeling, exploratory Creative Design to the point where they are currently incentives being offered by a lot of chinese these to entice taiwanese youth to the companies or whatever. [inaudible]. China believes that taiwan is part of their country. Theres a lot of political, theres a lot of charged myth around this issue. I think that you know, the party put this heavyhanded into the chapter about what kids are told in the classroom and what they learned outside of race is different. You cant tell a classroom of chinese kids that the japanese are dells because of the war they had a number of decades ago, meanwhile more chinese are developing a taste or machining. But what theyre learning in the classroom the conflicts with the outside world. China is comfortable encouraging tourism and exchange of ideas as long as you dont touch the sort of core party power. Anything is fine. And even, encouraging kids to be creative, all that except in politics, and ideology and religion, there are three or four areas where you dont encourage political thinking as a professor of education told this to me. They are opening their borders except for anything that challenges that new report. One is a great example i think of east and west when they come together. I think one of the reasons you would see a tremendous creativity there is that exactly the wall that we are trying to take down, is down in taiwan. And the resulting is a result. My name is kristen green. Im part of the institute from the us scrambling. I want to talk about. [inaudible]. [inaudible] my question for you is we talk about. [inaudible]. Mostly from the region and im curious if you yourself see these trends and people going through china. [inaudible] from the us . Oh, worldwide. China is spending a lot of money on it university sector. They take great pride and have decided theyre going to build something and rival the ivy league and theres a lot of money attached. I have a lot of academics coming through shanghai and they have grants you wouldnt imagine, they never get in the netherlands are here, just money being thrown up and with that comes interest so that something that china is hoping to develop. I think its also just a matter of where their placing students. And i think that enough people have come to the United States to realize that actually this is significant, we are talking about the divide between the itself, its such a difficult divide to navigate that a lot of them realize that actually, they might be better off not trying to come to the United States and better off learning to deal with china where yes, things are difficult and yes, they have longstanding ethnic animosity but fundamentally, you are wanting a lot of systems that did not like what they know, that they can succeed there. My name is cornelius grove. Im the author of the drive to learn which is spans much of these issues. So as i was doing my researchand by the way , i spent in good education, one of the things i came across as i was doing research for the book is a study that is actually still ongoing out of Stanford University but its out of stanford but its looking at chinese universities and the study basically it was reported in the New York Times that the study wants to find out why Chinese University students dont seem to work very much so in order to establish a baseline for that study, they gave students from china, russia and the United States a best of Critical Thinking. The test of Critical Thinking was an american test, developed by educational testingservice which i wasnt allowed to say in the book. Came from a wellknown american source. But these are College Freshmen and technical studies. And what we would call freshmen, im not sure thats critical. Heres the outcome. The students who have the highest of the three and in Critical Thinking were the chinese, second the russians, lowest the americans. This is interesting considering how much emphasis we put on Critical Thinking and i guess how much emphasis in china or maybe in this. Thats interesting but i have to say just anecdotally, i know a lot of people who , they come here from the top of the chinese system because i came from massachusetts but they are at mit for example and people whove done, theyve done very well and the answer is they tend to flounder. I have to say some of them, theres very Good Students and i know i have happen to know its interesting, the students they want that at harvard but it is true that some of the Chinese Students do tend to flounder. I will say that i thought it nyu shanghai though i had a lot of these students who scored very high. And honestly, their Critical Thinking was not as great as the Critical Thinking of the us students. Anecdotal but it was ethical. There are studies that have found the opposite but what are the parameters, what age are the children . Its kind of a hot button everyones looking at right now but you have to look a little bit deeper. That said, youre right, its complicated. Who is better at what is complicated and another huge piece of it is that by the time these kids get to the government, their whole idea of college is go back and do nothing. You get to that if you work hard, now you have it. They do nothing. Where in the us is the opposite, yougo through that gate now , its dark. So i think at taking university at harvard or stanford, they could not be more diametrically opposed. The chinese know this, thats why im coming up at the system. He used to be and i think it still is that among international advocates its got the best education in the world. It was the United States for elementary and secondary and come here for university. That might be why. Im john lowell from nashville. Talking about largely the two separate groups of American Students and Chinese Students , but perhaps this is big leagues, working the program thats roughly divided, thinking about the us and where there chinese response was, how does the professor a both of these pits and flexes for students to accommodate both of these learning styles and is a program like nyu perhaps different from a program that is not, destined to succeed or fail . First of all, id like to say that nyu shanghai, its specifically for the fact that they have managed to establish themselves in shanghai and the fact that they havent been close enough. Really, because they are full during the speech on the campus and within the university, the fact that they have been able to manage that politically, its mindboggling and i think we can only take our hats off to them. I think theres a lot of pressure and i think the Chinese Government is going to be very hard to see how those kids do. So they are looking for doing something really kind of amazing and kind of 10 years from now, if they have not done that, i do think it would be a feature of the school. For me, i was pushing creative writing. You need to adjust. You need to adjust, expect patients. In a general kind of way, i do think that on certain sensitivities onthe part of the teacher, especially when it comes to teaching a class is really important. You cannot, i guess from a global point of view you cannot look at students who cannot speak at class and just them as they are quiet, any of those things. Not speaking in class is very Much Associated with this flexing stuff. If you look at this program you can seehow a lot of it , really communication persontoperson, its not verbal. Their idea is still a kind of nonverbal, intuitive understanding. That is their baseline weight. It remains the ideal everywhere in chinese literature. Unspoken communication. In fact, if you have to use words to talk to somebody else, that means that you are the other side. But theres a distance there. A distance that frankly comes from a culture that you do not want to be there. Its formal, they do not like that formality. I will say also there are studies that show that the chinese way of thinking is more global and pattern oriented and because of that it is harder for them. If you are more analytical and you are thinking in a way that draws Little Package to dividing things up, its easier to get, its easier to think and talk at the same time that it is if you talk in a more pattern oriented way. s suggestion that one is more effective than next, the study that they did show this difference at stanford so the asian reference, they move it to that and they are extremely able to function, problemsolving its no more different than their ability to get to an answer the students are thinking in a different way and one way is very conducive to being described to see if people can talk and describe their thinking is very hard for other people to describe their thinking and as i said, i myself am having trouble. Although if you ask students their abcs, the people with the flexing self can do that easily where the people with the pics cant do that. But the answer, if you are that teacher you cannot penalize i think people with the flexing self because you feel like they come from another culture. I think you can encourage them like i always encouraged my students to speak up. I tried to make it as easy for them as possible and i tried to signal to them that i understood how hard it was. Leave me, there are people even successful Asian Americans in america will describe how hard this was. People like professor jeannie gleason, hes a professor of law school and at harvard and she started out, one of those people who could not speak in class. I started out as one of those people who could not speak in class. The journey to a person can do this, its a long and difficult journey is talk about requiring a difficult skill. For the teacher i would always say that they have to learn, the same way you learned english. Its just like if you canlearn english , if you cant learn its tough. Its just a matter of, its a fact of life and if you want to work at any kind of international anything, you need to speak up in those meetings. You have to learn those things but i think the teacher can judge the students to early, do not really understand how hard it is for them. This is where the Teacher Needs education. I wonder if how much of what you said is gender as well. Its also true that the head of one of the Big Marketing was a guy. And he described the same process. Yes, and now hes a big mucky muck but the answer is, many people, and its interesting because were talking not only about asians but also Asian Americans. Many Asian Americans from my generation were born in america, work first language is english. I dont think it when it really comes down to it, the answer is definitely secondgeneration, i would argue in many cases to the thirdgeneration so the answer is this is quite persistent and but, i think for educators to understand that is critical. I will say often, just because im in creative writing, i know that many creative writing teachers, the flexing self does not like to talk about process so if a big process told them they won, tell me about yourself, thats where your mother mother isnt listening for day one. Asians, its like the opposite. You do not want to talk about these things so what does the creative writing teacher doing day one . They get in there and as a way of putting all the students at ease, they say you learn something about yourself day one. It is going to find that all the asian are going to leave classroom and in other words, they have to be aware that their kids are coming from different cultural backgrounds and if you say please, why dont you do an essay about yourself . They will shut down big time. Unfortunately weve come to the end of our time. I want to encourage you to purchase these books. They are really truly worth reading. I have read them all to the surprise of our people. Please join me in thanking them very much for speaking today. [applause] heres a look at authors recently featured on book tvs afterwards, our weekly Author Interview program. Investigative journalist art levine reported on the Mental Health industry. New York Times Magazine contributor susie hansen reflected on her travels abroad and weighed in on americas global standing and regressive policy Institute Senior fellow David Osborne examined the Charter School movement and offered his outlook for the future of public education. In the coming weeks, Craig Shirley will discuss life and political career of newt gingrich. Will judge john newman will detail his career in the judicial system first under prosecutor and currently as a federal appellate judge. Former face the nation after bob schaffer will examine the role of the media today. And this weekend on afterwards, for radio and msnbc contributor Charles Sykes will provide his thoughts on the conservative movement in america. I am a conservative who believes americans should be the shining city on the hill, that we are based on an idea. They reject the idea, they reject the values of the declaration of independence explicitly, they dont believe that america is an idea, they believe its a geographical location, people by people of certain ethnic and racial backgrounds. Theres a dark side there. And the reality is that throughout the campaign, donald trump had more than one opportunity to repudiate them, reject em