Transcripts For CSPAN Confirmation 20240703

Allegations. Mr. Lew denied those allegations. Senator cardin the Senate Foreign Relations Committee will come to order. Todays hearing carries great importance for the United States, for israel and the region. The attacks by hamas just over 10 days ago in israel marked the deadliest day for jews since the holocaust. Abducting elderly in wheelchairs, burning people alive and killing babies in front of parents, it was not only horrific and barbaric, but methodically planned and carried out. Hamas has started a war. Given the state of emergency that israel faces, the United States needs a confirmed u. S. Ambassador in jerusalem. We need somewhere to reenforce that the United States stands with israel in response to the unprecedented terrorist attack. We need someone to lead the selfless personnel who have been working nonstop at mission israel. We need an ambassador to work with our israeli partners and provide help. Secretary lew, we hold this nomination today. I am committed to getting you in place in israel as soon as possible. I thank senator rich so we could expedite this hearing and we both agree that speed is of the essence. Im going to ask the cooperation of our colleagues and ask that questions for the record be submitted by close of Business Today and we will make every effort to get those responses to you by this weekend. We have scheduled a business meeting for next week for a vote on this nomination. I ask the committees cooperation because of the urgency of voting on a confirmed ambassador for the state of israel. Since october 7, hamas has killed more than 1,000 innocent people and injured thousands more. They have viciously killed hostages and are Still Holding others including american citizens. I cannot overstate the urgency for the United States to have a confirmed ambassador on the ground to help deliver u. S. Support for israel and deal with the hostage situation and deal with the humanitarian needs that we know exists. We need an ambassador who can speak with authority and engage diplomatically in the region. Secretary lews experience and political acumen makes him qualified to serve as the u. S. Ambassador to israel. I have seen firsthand jack lews commitment to Public Service. His integrity, his dedication to american values, his understanding of the United States National Security needs, and his deep understanding of respect for the legislative branch of government. I also know his effectiveness than crating solutions to difficult problems. I want to thank secretary lew for his service to the country. And i want to thank your family because we know this is a family sacrifice. Thank you once again for understanding the need for his service to the nation. The last time secretary lew was before the senate as a nominee, he was confirmed by an overwhelming majority of 7126. Now is not the time to play political games. We need to know that the other nations and terrorist groups [indiscernible shouting] how many children need to be killed . Our families are dying. We need a cease fire now. Cease fire now, cease fire now. Senator cardin now is not the time to pay political games. We need to make sure that other terrorist groups do not open new fronts in the conflict. We need to be clear with everyone. From hezbollah in lebanon to the regime in iran and assad in syria and putin in russia, dont even think about joining or expanding the war. To that end, we need to confirm ambassadors to other critical posts in the region. Doing so would allow secretary lew to work with counterparts to make sure americans throughout the region are safe and our interests are represented to the fullest extent. Secretary, there is clearly no shortages of challenges facing you. I look forward to hearing how you plan to address them and how you plan for congress to support that. We need your eyes and ears to understand what is going on in jerusalem and we need to keep you pushing on normalization agreements between israel and saudi arabia. We need you to make it clear to our allies and enemies that when our friends are in trouble, the United States has their back. Most importantly of all, we need you confirmed. Without objection, i will enter into the record letters of support from the American Jewish committee and the Antidefamation League without objection. Let me turn to our distinguished Ranking Member. Thank you, chairman. Thank you for consulting with me over the past week to get to where we are today. We are here to support israel by filling a vacancy in the position for ambassador to israel. We have an acting member there with stephanie who is doing a great job. She is very helpful to me. To me and other officials we met with. And we do have things being done there on the ground. I agree with you. We need this thing filled. The problem i have is it needs to be filled with the right person. The worse thing than having it empty is to have the wrong person there, and i have some issues in that regard which we are going to talk about and clear the air today one way or another. 18 years ago israel took the step of dismantling israeli settlements in gaza. [indiscernible shouting] 18 years ago, israel took the step of dismantling israeli settlements in gaza, handing the territory to the Palestinian Authority. This has been a disaster for the people in gaza and israel as well. Israel faces an unprecedented crisis on the scale of the september 11 attacks against the United States. Gunmen killed families, killed babies, beheaded the elderly, and dragged hostages across the border to gaza. These attacks were brutal and horrific. We mourn the loss of israelis and americans and people from numerous from other countries. As israel rightly responds to safeguard its citizens, it is absolutely imperative that israel has the freedom to act until they get the job done. This happened to us and to europe at the end of world war ii. Nazis had taken over germany and were marching across europe. Our allies made the decision that the organization, the nazis, could not exist any further. And we didnt just go to battle to defeat germany on the battlefield, we went to war to defeat, dismantle and eliminate the nazis. We did that and it was difficult. We eliminated the nazis as a military, as a political force, as a cultural force, and everything else. Israelis are attempting to do the same thing now with hamas, who deserve it. [indiscernible shouting] we need a cease fire now. Stop sending aid to israel. [indiscernible shouting] senator cardin let me make it clear, we will not tolerate interruptions in our hearing. You see whats going to be happening. We ask that those that have strong views, there is a place to express it, but it is not to disrupt this hearing. I will not tolerate it. Immediately after the attacks on israel, we saw calls for a cease fire. What happened in gaza is linked to iran, that is so important. What happened in gaza is directly linked to iran. The Biden Administration cannot wish away the iranian threat or appease the Iranian Regime with promises of unfrozen funds and sanctions relief. The attacks in israel and attacks against our troops and diplomats are proof of our own failed diplomatic policy. Iran is the supporter of hamas. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter, iran has more resources to support terrorism today than it did in 2019. U. S. Sanctions enforcement in this administration have been lacking. Iran has earned the shocking 80 billion in oil revenue since the Biden Administration took office. Irans oil economy once hobbled at 250,000 barrels a day, but it is now selling 2 Million Barrels of oil every day, mostly to china. We know where that money is going. They have grown from 70 vessels to over 300 during the Biden Administration. The unfreezing of funds in iraq and now the whopping 6 billion in south korea are completely unacceptable and make americans less safe. It should come as no surprise that these attacks occurred immediately after the Biden Administration unfroze the 6 billion and 75 million directly over my strenuous objections. On palestinian policy, the Biden Administration argued that restoring funding that i objected to would give the Palestinian Authority the leverage to promote palestinian voices and reform organizations. Two years later, we have seen no reform. Violence is at record levels. And many palestinians identify with terror groups to meet their aspirations. Like iran policy, it is time for wholesale reevaluation of palestinian policy. So today we are here to help israel. We are here to look at the vacancies that exists, the nominee that has been put before us. We are here to help israel, not hurt it. Secretary lew, i have reservations on your appointment. Not only will you need to support israel as it responds to these attacks, but also as it contends with the enduring and indeed existential iranian threat which i think is an underlying and foundational issue here. I have reservations about your ability to do that. You played a key role in supporting the Obama Administrations Nuclear Negotiations and i have concerns about the longstanding transparency on the transfers of cash to the regime. You have publicly insisted that the transfers of cash do not free up iranian resources for terror activities. I fundamentally agree with that assessment. Importantly, it is alleged that you lied or misled us, this very committee. On that i have three items i want to insert in the record and i will, mr. Chairman. Two of them are Opinion Pieces from the Washington Post and the third one is a report by the permanent subcommittee on investigations which has been authored, and i would like to enter those. Senator cardin without objection. They will be included. Im going to have questions for you about your activities in what i think was a back handed way of supporting iran. And with that, i yield back. Im here to support israel today and help every way i can. Its important to get the right person in this position. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator cardin we will hear from secretary lew. Your full statement will be made part of the record and you may proceed as you wish. Mr. Lew chairman cardin and Ranking Member and members of the committee. I am honored to appear as the president s nominee to serve as u. S. Ambassador to the state of israel. I am grateful to President Biden and secretary blinken for the trust and confidence that they have shown in me at this critical moment. If confirmed, i look forward to working closely with you and other members of congress to advance u. S. And israeli interests. Joining me today are my wife ruth and our children. They supported this mission when the focus was to expand the Abraham Accords by further integrating israel into the middle east region, and they remain supportive as israel is in the midst of war. As always, knowing they are behind me is at the core of my ability to serve. I cannot remember a time when israel struggled for security was not at the forefront. I came of age in a family that had combined reliefs combined beliefs in religious zions is zionism. When i was 12 we followed reports of the sixday war with daily newspapers and broadcast news. In 1973, the year i came to washington as a young man, i learned of the yom kippur war at synagogue on our most solemn day of prayer, and i worried deeply about the survival of the state of israel. The horrific and murderous terrorist attacks just days ago shattered another holy day and learning again of an attack on israel at a Prayer Service was an experience that i had hoped never to repeat. At this moment, there is no Greater Mission than to be asked to strengthen the ties between the United States and israel, to work towards peace in the region that has known so much war and destruction. The savage attack demands the condemnation of the world and President Biden has made clear that the United States stands with israel in its efforts to defend itself. I will do my utmost to end the horrific attacks by hamas and ensure that israel has what it needs to defend itself. And i will spare no effort to help american citizens that are held captive to return home safely. And i will work to root out terrorists and their families to pay for their heinous crimes. I will work to prevent other states and nonstate actors and coordinate with International Communities to address the humanitarian crisis that hostages are being used as human shields by hamas. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, i want to be clear, iran is a threat to regional stability and to israels existence. If confirmed, i will uphold President Bidens commitment to deny iran a Nuclear Weapon and warning to the region that anyone who is thinking of taking advantage of the current crisis, dont. I will work to strengthen israel s security. Israel is our closest partner in the region and its security is paramount. The president has been clear the u. S. Commitment to israel is ironclad, demonstrated in part by our 38 billion memorandum of understanding. In the midst of war, our longterm strategic objectives must also remain clear. If confirmed, i will work to advance comprehensive and lasting peace through a twostate solution to the palestinianisraeli conflict and build upon the Abraham Accords and promote integration, normalization, and cooperation with israel as a fully recognized partner. I look forward to deepening economic and commercial relationships, enhancing cooperation and Economic Security in sectors such as cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, transportation, smart agricultural technologies and clean energy. And as israels economy grows and diversifies, the u. S. And israel must enhance our close cooperation on Foreign Investment direct management. If confirmed, i will continue to oppose all efforts to isolate and delegitimize israel internationally and support the global fight against antisemitism. I will advance the tireless work of this administration to firmly reject the boycott and sanctions Divestment Movement while respecting the rights of all americans to free speech. I will work to reenforce all efforts to combat antisemitism, building upon the president s efforts to counter antisemitism, including the movements that have formed in the wake of the hamas attacks on october 7. More broadly, if confirmed, i will work to further strengthen our 75yearold partnership with israel and deepen bonds between our people. Finally, as someone who has dedicated much of my life to Public Service, i thank the talented and committed Foreign Service officers, Civil Servants and foreign nationals who are doing an extraordinary job at a time of violence and war representing the United States and washington and abroad. Just watching this morning, are able officials standing beside the president knowing that her family and the families of all our people that are over there have been shaken by the last 10 days. As a citizen, i have personal appreciation for their dedication, courage, and i think their Service Deserves the admiration and respect of the American People. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, thank you for the opportunity to testify here today. And i look forward to your questions. Sen. Cardin thank you. Before we start the fiveminute rounds, i have the obligatory questions that are answered by all nominees. Do you agree to peer before this committee and make officials from your Office Available to your committee . Mr. Lew yes. Sen. Cardin do you commit to keep this Committee Informed of the activities under your purview . Mr. Lew yes. Sen. Cardin you agree in meaningful engagement while the policies are developed . Mr. Lew yes. Sen. Cardin do you agree to promptly respond to requests for briefings . Mr. Lew yes. Sen. Cardin you answered all those questions correctly. Thank you. We are off to a good start. Let me ask you a question about your view of the u. S. Israel relations. 1948, president truman did something that the state department did not recommend that he do. He did that because of his belief that israel shared the same values of the United States and the part of the world where we had no other country that shared those values. And that relationship has grown over that period of time. As you pointed including the memorandum of understanding, the billions of dollars of aid, the development of the iron down iron dome, and shared intelligence information and technology. I would like to get your view as to that relationship, why it is special, what you have done in your public life to help strengthen the ties between israel and the United States. Mr. Lew thank you, mr. Chairman. It will come to no surprise to you that i grew up believing harry truman was a hero. He did not have to do what he did and the state of israel may not have come into existence and lasted had he not done that. I think the relationship between the United States and israel is special because we share values and because as the president said as recently as this morning, the United States understands without the state of israel, its not just people of israel that are not safe, but jews around the world are not safe without the state of israel. So the relationship between the United States and israel is at the core of who i am and what i believe is important for us having an ally in the region that we can count on. While my career has not for the most part been in foreign policy, it has been integrated into many of the roles i played as the director of omb, as the chief of staff, and as the treasury secretary. I was the omb director who helped design the first mou of Security Assistance to israel. I was the deputy secretary of state to help israel to become a member of the oecd, which is an organization of developed nations of the world that israel wanted at a time when it was being marginalized and being thrown out. I was the omb director who helped fund Missile Defense and not without concerns of cost and some concerns about the scope of our commitments. I have not shied away from expressing my views when the position of the United States and the position of israel require Public Officials in our government to do so. I am happy to discuss those matters, but i believe my reputation as someone who stands with israel is beyond question. I think the government of israel has made that clear and things they have said ever since my nomination. Sen. Cardin the immediate need for the United States is to help israel deal with this war, providing the support it needs, dealing with hostage relief, dealing with the potential escalation and preventing that from happening. That is the immediate concern. But looking beyond that, you mentioned the Abraham Accords and normalization, one of hama objectives was to derail the normalization discussions that are taking place in the middle east with the most visible being between the United States, israel and saudi arabia. So tell me a little about your view as to how you keep these normalization discussions alive during a time of war. Mr. Lew mr. Chairman, it is going to be a challenge until this war ends for people here or there to focus on the day after , but i deepbly believe have do believe those of us who have responsibility in this area have to keep our eye on the strategic objectives because if you look at the question of negotiations between israel and saudi arabia, if it was in the International Interests of them two weeks ago, it is in the interest of israel and saudi arabia when this war ends. And we are a critical part of that conversation. I have had extensive dealings with many of the governments in the region. I would pledge my utmost support for making that conversation one that can get back on track. It was a mission that i thought i was going to start with. I dearly pray we get to that mission soon. Sen. Cardin thank you. Senator risch. Sen. Risch thank you, mr. Chairman, and i agree with virtually everything you said, particularly as the underlying issue here, which i think is the warming relations that are happening between saudi arabia and israel. I think those are probably the precipitating factor that caused iran to pull the trigger, and iran did pull the trigger in my judgment. And got the people who are arabs to rise up against israel knowing exactly what the consequences would be and then attempting to and successfully turn the world against israel for responding as they did. I think you got that call just right. I think that thats what happened. Like you, i pray when this is over, that we can continue on and a number of us are meeting with saudi officials to urge that. My problem goes back to your performance previously. And to quote from the Washington Post opinion piece , it says, lew must explain why in 2015 that he promised the same committee that he will not help iran with the nuclear deal, but secretly tried to do just that and turned 5. 7 billion in two euros into u. S. Currency. Im going to pursue that line. You recall sitting in that chair in july of 2015 and stating quote, will continue under the jcpoa, iran will continue to be denied access to commercial markets. Mr. Lew i remember that testimony well and i believe we kept iran from becoming part of the u. S. Financial system and i am happy to discuss the implementation of the jcpoa. I know you and i may not agree on the policy of the jcpoa, but what we did was implemented a policy that was transparent that i testified before this committee on in terms of what was being done. We negotiated with iran to have them roll back their Nuclear Program in exchange for which it was access to their money that we had frozen. All we did was facilitate that transaction. So we did not welcome them back into the u. S. Financial system. Sen. Risch did you on february 24, 2016 issue a specific license authorizing iranian assets to flow through the United States Financial System . Mr. Lew we did issue licenses. I do not recall whether those licenses were the vehicle through which funds moved. The concern was we made an agreement to return money and returning that money was the bargain for our nuclear deal. Thats all we did. Sen. Risch are you telling us that you notified us that on february 24, 2016 you authorized that specific license to the bank . Mr. Lew general licenses are published. Specific licenses are not. Sen. Risch i want to quote one of the objectives when they said there was a gigantic breakthrough which assured iran of full global inclusion, that was in response to the license you showed on february 24, 2016. Mr. Lew i cant speak to that. The government of iran believed we did not give them what they expected, which is full access to the world Financial System. They complained my actions were what kept them from getting full access to the world Financial System. I know some of you are going to ask me questions about what my team said when they went around the world. My team went around the world telling banks around the world we did not lift the sanctions on terrorism, Human Rights Violations, or regional destabilization. Be careful, and iran thought it cap to them from getting what they thought they should get. We gave them that was agreed to in the jcpoa and nothing more. Sen. Risch my time is almost up. I have to tell you that this is something we knew nothing about at the time you issued to this license, and we believe that was in direct intervention of what you told us contradiction of what you told us in this committee in july of 2015 and im deeply disappointed with that. To me, this whole thing is about iran and Holding Hands with iran under the table doesnt work for me. Im deeply disappointed that you issued that license and didnt tell us about it. Deeply disappointed that you misled us in july when we had that meeting. My time is up. Mr. Chairman, i yield underwhelmed and unpersuaded. Thank you. Sen. Cardin senator menendez. Sen. Menendez i congratulate you on your nomination as we go through this critical time. I want to go through a few things. Do you agree with me that iran is an existential threat to the state of israel . Mr. Lew yes, i do. Sen. Menendez and do you agree with me that their Nuclear Program where their enrichment is beyond any commercial grade purpose, if continued, is an existential threat to the state of israel . Mr. Lew i believe the enrichment of uranium is a threat to the world and that is why i supported the jcpoa because it created a bigger wall of time. I think we are closer to that now because the jcpoa has ended in terms of our participation and they have enriched more. Sen. Menendez you are aware that there are many efforts to delegitimize the state of israel particularly at the United Nations. In 2016, the Obama Administration, to my disappointment which i expressed at the time, failed to veto a resolution that did from my perspective exactly that, and attempt to delegitimize the state of israel at the United Nations. If you were to be confirmed under these present circumstances and assuming that it was such a resolution, would you recommend the president veto similar resolutions that signal out israel, delegitimize its actions for selfdefense, and play down the role of hamas and other organizations that undermine it . Mr. Lew senator, i believe deeply the u. N. Needs to be fair and not condemn israel and ignore the actions of terrorist organizations like hamas. I do not believe it is right for the u. N. To adopt resolutions that singled israel out, and i have always believed that the u. N. Needs to be more evenhanded. I cannot comment on hypothetical resolutions. I would only note when that decision was made, it was made by president obama after a very much worse resolution had been identified. And the worst resolution does not make a bad resolution. Sen. Menendez the point is at the u. N. , israel is constantly villified and made the central focus. With other countries in the world who have significant Human Rights Violations go untouched. And so you are not going to be at the u. N. But you are going to be part of a National Security team as ambassador to israel that has input in an administration, so i am trying to understand where youre coming from. Mr. Lew if i am confirmed to be ambassador to israel, i will have single focus on how i approach these questions that is different from the focus that you have in other roles. I will be an advocate for doing the things the United States should do to protect israel including at the u. N. Sen. Menendez thank you. What do you see your role if confirmed as it relates to the challenges of the Palestinian People . Hamas is a terrorist organization. They are barbaric. No question about that. And israel must do what is necessary to wipe them off the face of the earth. Having said that, the Palestinian People in and of themselves are not hamas. So what do you see as your role as the u. S. Ambassador as it relates to finding a Better Future for them . Mr. Lew senator, as i said in my opening remarks, i am keeping focused not only on today but where we go after the conflict, the war ends. And i think we have to be back in a place where questions are being asked of how do you have a sustainable peace . How do you have security for israeli and palestinian citizens . My heart goes out to innocent civilians who were injured, whether it was the gruesome atrocities on that saturday or innocent civilians who are living in areas where hamas is hiding and they get killed because of collateral damage. This has to end, but it has to end with israels security being guaranteed, and it is a difficult moment to remember that we are trying to get beyond this current state of affairs and hopefully coming out of this, there will be some more willingness and parties able to have conversations about building a Better Future. We need to worry about refugees and i have been heartened by some of the progress i have read about in the last 24 hours on humanitarian corridors, getting food and water to people. I think hamas is using palestinian citizens to make we need to worry about refugees. Ive been heartened by some of the progress ive read about in the last 24 hours on getting food and water to people. Um you know, i think hamas is using palestinian citizens to make their, their cause public, but theyre hurting those people. Thank you for your responses, senator rubio. Thank you for being here today for your willingness to serve, but i do need to touch on this. So you said in the testimonies now on the record, youve acknowledged it that in your testimony, both written and verbal in this committee in 2015. In july, you said that there would not be iran would not have access to us Financial Institutions. Youve also said that there was a special license which i think is well documented in the report thats now in the record to allow iran access to us Financial Institutions in particular was a special specific license to a bank in oman, allowing access to us dollars in new york to convert about 5. 7 billion dollars worth of omani riyals into uh iranian accounts and and into euros. The report that is also on the record also found that ofac under your leadership of treasury instituted about 200 roadshows. Uh well, first of all, a actually encouraged to us banks to convert these funds. Thats what the report found. The two banks decided not to do so. But nonetheless, the us treasury actively encouraged two banks to do this. Then treasury through ofac put on over 200 roadshows across the world, encouraging us banks to do business with iran. And also telling members of the International Banking community not to downplay basically potential future penalties or fines stating that 95 of the time ofac sends a warning letter or takes no action. In fact, the report found that at least one european regulator who attended one of these roadshows commented that foreign Financial Institutions felt political pressure to conduct business with iran and iranian companies. And in fact, the report also found that Treasury Department officials while you were secretary of treasury, officials proactively contacted foreign Financial Institutions to provide information about the jcpoa sanction relief. In one example, a Compliance Officer proactively contacted a Foreign Financial Institution to make sure they understood iran sanctions relief. And this left the Foreign Financial Institution confused since they had no business with iran up until that point. So we send you a letter, senator then senator on march 30th 2016 asking you about all this. We ask you about specific licenses and u turn transactions. And we also ask assurances that the United States will not work on behalf of iran to enable iranian access to us dollars elsewhere in the international Financial System, including assisting them to gain access to dollar payments outside the us. We asked you this in a letter on march 30, 2016 which i ask that be entered into the record. Without objection. Sen. Rubio you responded on may 11, 2016, in which you said we are not planning to reinstate uturn and, and we will continue to vigorously enforce the many sanctions that remain against iran including our primary sanctions that generally prohibit iranian banks from clearing us dollars through the us Financial System or holding correspondent account relations in the us. That was your response. And i ask that the may 11th 2016 letter be the objection bed. So we wrote you back in may, i guess 323 days later after this letter a week after. So we are disappointed that you ignored the request in our march 30th letter providing assurances that the United States will not work on behalf of iran to enable iranian access to us dollars elsewhere in the international system, et cetera. And you responded on june 7th of that year, i asked that june 7th response be entered into the record and this is what it says to be clear, the department of treasury is not working on behalf of iran to enable iranian access to us dollars elsewhere in the international Financial System. Nor are we assisting iran in gaining access to dollar Payment Systems outside the us Financial System . The administration has not been and is not planning to grant iran access to the us Financial System. So basically, the way i would describe this is your testimony is you were not providing them access to the us Financial System. You then issued a special license which is not published. Maybe no one was supposed to find out about it to help them gain access to the us Financial System. Then asked two banks to help convert the funds. They chose not to do so. You then put on 200 road shows around the world encouraging uh banks around the world to be a part of this and telling them this is through your ofac director, dont worry about sanctions, dont worry about penalties, 95 of the time. Its just a warning letter, no action at all. And and actually proactively reached out according to the report, unless you dispute the report, proactively reached out to a bank and which said we dont do any business with iran. I dont know why theyre contacting us, and then when we write to you about it, not once but twice, you deny or mislead that any of this was happening. So these are the facts that ive outlined. Do i, do you dispute any of these facts as they are outlined . And i, i understand your point that general licenses specific licenses, the bottom line is this license was issued. It did exactly what you said were not supposed to do. Then you guys did the roadshow. You even had people in the state department saying and the report found this too. This is not a partisan report. Ok. This report was put together by that by the oversight committee. It found these facts including emails from people at state department saying we are concerned that this exceeds our power under the deal. So how are we supposed to see all of that and then somehow confirm you to this very important post when you deliberately in my view, misled me, misled senator kirk, misled the congress on what was happening behind the scenes with regards to all of this, mr chairman. Mr. Lew may i have a moment just to respond . Sen. Rubio you may. Mr. Lew yes, senator, i dont think the facts are exactly the way you describe them. And i think its important to distinguish between the technical details, to facilitate implementation of jcpoa and more broadly welcoming iran into the us financial community. We didnt and i took no actions that would do that. I dont think your description of what us and ofac officials were doing is the same as my memory of what i had people out there doing. I had banks and governments coming to me saying we want you to do exactly what you described. We didnt do that. What we did was we said exactly what i said in response to the Ranking Member, we told them what sanctions were lifted, what sanctions remained in place and we told them to be careful. And iran got from that, the message that we were telling people not to do business with them. Thats why they sanctioned me. Thats why ive been sanctioned for Human Rights Violations in iran and im proud of it. We gave them nothing more than we promised in the jcpoa. We can agree or disagree whether that was good policy. But there are other members of this committee who have been sanctioned by iran. Im proud to be among them. Sen. Rubio well, just for the i know one more time, but its for the record. Thats not my allegations of the facts that is im reading out of the report by the Senate Subcomittee on investigations. And i do think this needs to be answered. Senator kane sen. Kane thank you, mister chair secretary lew. Congratulations on this nomination. Its very important. I want to read some quotes that i found interesting reactions from israeli officials and others to the news of your nomination. The current foreign minister cohen in Early September tweeted out welcome ambassador designee jacob lew, as you have been nominated Us Ambassador to israel a country, you know, so well, we look forward to working with you in the spirit of our close cooper operation and alliance in a follow up interview. He said about you. He is a true friend of israel and we expect him to work and we expect to work with him in the spirit of our alliance thats based on shared values. Many of us know former ambassador michael oren, the israeli ambassador to the United States when you were being rumored as a potential nominee, he said jack lew is reportedly a lead candidate to be Us Ambassador to israel. Hes a true statement, statesman and a passionate jew as israels ambassador to the u si greatly valued his friendship and his outstanding defense of the us israel alliance. I mention every sense of the word. Sen. Kaine human rights activist, Natan Sharansky in 2015 said this, liu worked days and nights taking families of prisoners of zion through all the quarters of power to make sure the jews would be released. Many soviet refuseniks owe their lives to him and others for the successful efforts to release them. Uh israeli official, youve all signed. Its also in 2015, recalled that without lews help, israel would never have been accepted into the oecd. These are comments that are powerful, there is a need for speed in acting on this nomination. I encourage my colleagues to do all we can to get it to the floor quickly so that we can have a confirmed ambassador to israel at this most important moment. The news this morning is also that the Biden Administration is sending to us a supplemental package that has aid for ukraine, aid for Israel Border aid and also Disaster Assistance for states hit by weather emergencies. I would hope that the senate could show in a bipartisan manner that we would support this. I think that would send a powerful message to israel as well. Um, i want to ask about iran. Look the most controversial issue on this committee. Ive been on the committee the whole time. Ive been here since i came in 2013 was the jcpoa. There are people in this body, mr lew, theyre not going to let you out of the penalty box over that. There are some who opposed, who were opposed, who can separate their feeling about the jcp from whether you would be a good ambassador. But there are some youre not going to get out of the penalty box with them. But i do notice something that you just mentioned. I think four of the members of this committee have been sanctioned by iran. Not all of us have been, but youve been sanctioned by iran. Tell the committee why iran sanctioned you. Mr. Lew well, senator, um at the end of the jcp negotiation, i think it was irans hope that they would get exactly what has been described here that they would be welcomed into the world of nations and they were profoundly disappointed when that didnt happen and they did not think that i kept the bargain. One thing i will say is a deal is a deal. We made a deal with iran. If you want sanctions to work to get sovereign powers to change their policy, which iran did in rolling back its Nuclear Program, you have to keep your side of the bargain. I didnt think we had to do any more than that. Right. And so the sanctions that were lifted in that deal were sanctions pertaining to irans Nuclear Program. Mr. Lew correct. Sen. Kaine but we never agreed to lift any other sanction about human rights problems, development of, of missile systems, violation of other Un Resolutions. We lifted none of sanctions and you went around the world reminding banks and Financial Institutions that those sanctions were still in place and if they acted contrary to them, there were negative consequences that they would receive. Mr. Lew and we did tell banks that if its a nuclear sanction, those have been lifted because thats what the deal was. Sen. Kaine well, i think you should be proud of being sanctioned by iran and i heard a comment earlier that said, you know, Holding Hands with them under the table. If that was the case, you wouldnt be on the list of those who are sanctioned by the nation of iran. Um, i was very pleased to see that ambassador satterfield will serve as the special envoy to lead us diplomacy to address the humanitcrisis in gaza. I associate myself with comments made by senator menendez, hamas started this horrible war against civilians but all palestinians are not hamas, all gazans are not hamas and a broader humanitarian challenge in gaza will serve not israels interests, be detrimental to palestinians will not serve the regional interest. We we need to do all we can to encourage our ally israel to take the fight to the perpetrator and not to those who werent the perpetrators. We have painful lessons. Weve learned about that in the United States. We took the fight to the perpetrator after 9 11. But as we broadened it into a global war, including a war against iraq, we lost credibility, we lost support nationally. We unleashed a set of consequences that probably should not have been unleashed. And so we have our own paid in full experience of being attacked and then allowing the response to go beyond those who perpetrated the attack and suffering as a result. And im hoping that youll work closely together with uh with envoy satterfield on this important humanitarian mission. Mr. Lew well, senator, i have to say that, um i dont think i could have found the words to say as eloquently what the president has said on multiple occasions over the last week, israel not just has a right but a responsibility to defend itself and what makes our relationship with israel so special is that we share a common belief in democracy and in the rule of law and that includes the law of war. I think that is what israel believes. And this is not the time for us to be lecturing israel on what they have to do to establish the security that they have a responsibility to provide. Um, and i think they know they have to do it in a way that is consistent with minimizing the impact on innocent civilians. As we learned in, in fallujah and in mosul and ramadi, it is very hard, very hard for there not to be collateral damage. So i dont think the standard can be that it gets to zero. And i dont think thats what the president said. The president said they have to defend themselves. Senator romney, thank you, mr chairman. Sen. Romney um, i, along with a handful of other senators were in israel over the weekend and had the chance to meet with leadership there, former leadership of the country as well as with military leaders and with families of hostages. And i know that your confirmation can be done by one party alone and youre likely to be confirmed on that basis. But that being said, there are a few things id like to pass along to you assuming that you do become ambassador. One is that our chief of mission is a highly respected individual, respected by the israeli leadership and is working in the interest of the United States and is someone who we respect enormously as well, meeting with the families of hostages, their stories and the experiences are heartbreaking, the outrage, the brutality, the inhumanity of hamas in the way they took children and others and grabbed them and took them across the border is hard to comprehend, um, and, and we need to do everything within our power to release, secure the release of those hostages. Id also note that one of the generals, the leading general of the Israeli Defense forces said something thats very powerful. He said, israel and jews dont do vengeance. Were not going to target palestinians and try and kill a lot of palestinians to make up for all the jews that were killed. That is not our intent. We will do everything in our power to avoid civilian casualties among the Palestinian People, but they are being used as human shields and in many cases, there will be deaths, but they will be unfortunate and not part of an effort on the part of israel to carry out vengeance. And also note that there is a responsibility that every government has and the Israeli Government of course, has this responsibility as well to secure the safety and the life of their citizens. And in this case, hamas has made it very clear that as long as they exist, Israeli Citizens lives are going to be at risk and will be sacrificed and therefore it is unacceptable for hamas to continue to exist certainly in proximity that they have enjoyed from the gaza strip. I would note also that in discussion of what comes next, whats going to happen after. Lets assume that the Israeli Military is successful in rooting out hamas. What happens after that . There was no clear response to that and i didnt expect necessarily a response to that because the Israeli Government and military is focused on how theyre going to be successful in rooting out hamas. Thats what comes first. But what comes next is something which will be a great priority for the United States ambassador there. Uh, im going to note that i was very troubled by the report of their permanent subcomittee investigations that was carried under the direction of senator portman. I concur in the questions that were being raised by senator rubio. That is very troubling to me. I, i wonder how the white house could have brought forward a uh, uh a nomination, given that report and given the, the uh uh clear indication that that republican members at least and hopefully some democratic members as well would be troubled by and moved by the results of that report from the subcomittee on investigations. Um, finally, a question, and that relates to a tangential issue but and that is there is most recently a response or an effort has been promoted by the administration to provide 6 billion of iranian funds to iran to release them as part of the uh uh prisoner uh uh exchange uh thats obviously been put on hold. But i, i guess i question and you have experience in this regard, the idea that dollars are going to be used for humanitarian purposes only. I heard the administration say were going to get you your 6 billion back, but it has to only be used for humanitarian purposes. Now, i know enough about money to know that funds are fungible and that if we say were going to give you 6 billion but youve got to use it for food and hospitals for your, for your population. Iran can say thank you. Thats what we use the 6 billion for. Now, we freed up 6 billion that we otherwise would have used ourselves for food and hospital. And now we can use that to build Nuclear Weapons or provide money to hezbollah or hamas. And so, am i wrong . It strikes me that when we say that were going to give you money, but only for humanitarian purposes, its an entirely disingenuous. Its a way of disguising the fact that were providing funds to a state sponsor of terror. Sen. Rubio its misleading to the American People, misleading to the world. Is there any other way of reading that . Mr. Lew well, senator first, i want to agree with you about the difference between defending a country in vengeance and theres a difference between anger and fury and vengeance. If any of us lived in a country where that large, a part of our population had been brutalized in a way that we couldnt hardly imagine, controlling your fury is almost beyond the imagination. I believe theyre going to do the right thing and try their best to do it to defend the country. Not for vengeance. You know, on, on the, the, the question you didnt ask it as a question, but the report of the special committee, you know, i have remained close with senator portman. Even since we both left government, i spoke to him as recently as last night, i would just invite anyone who questions whether he thinks that im somebody who keeps my word, i would just suggest they talk to senator portman. On the question of fung of money as an economic matter, i have many times made the point that money is fungible. But when youre dealing with iran, youre not dealing with a rational economic player. Youre dealing with an evil and malign government that funds its evil and malign activities first. So when iran gets access to food and medicine for its people, thats food and medicine, they wouldnt otherwise have. I cant say that theres no leakage. And when i supported the jcpoa, what i said was our intelligence reports suggest that the vast majority of that money will be used for the neglected purpose of humanitarian expenses and to the extent that theres leakage, it wont change the of what they do, sadly supporting terrorist organizations like hamas and terrorist organizations like hezbollah. Thats not very expensive. Theyre doing that anyway. Were trying, i tried as hard as i could. Subsequent administrations tried as hard as they could under maximum pressure. They still were doing their malign activities. So its not a pure economic question. Its really a question of who are we dealing with . Were not dealing with people who trade off guns and butter. Guns come first. Senator coons, thank you, mister chairman. Sen. Coons thank you, mister secretary to you and your family for your willingness to step forward and take on this very challenging and Critical Service on behalf of our nation in this difficult moment. Like every member of this committee, i unequivocally condemn the invasion and attacks by hamas against israel, the slaughter of innocent people, the taking of hostages. And when you are, i hope confirmed by the senate, you will take on representing our nation in a particularly challenging and fraught moment with a critical ally. Im grateful that our president chose to go in person and have already been receiving messages from friends in israel and throughout the region about what a difference it makes to them uh when our National Leader shows up. Um but we also frankly have to sustain that engagement through a Senate Confirmed ambassador. Its my hope that we will also confirm ambassadors to other countries in the region. Egypt, lebanon, the coordinator for counterterrorism and that we will continue expediting some of these confirmations. We have, i believe just confirmed ambassadors to oman and kuwait in recent days. But all of us who serve on this committee and who have served overseas in different roles know theres a huge difference between an ambassador of the United States and although there are many talented and qualified career Foreign Service officers in the current case, serving as dcm, whereas we need an ambassador. So i hope this committee will take that very seriously if you would. Uh mister secretary just speak for a moment about how you would work to limit what i think was the goal of hamass attacks in addition to terrorizing the population to prevent any reconciliation, any recognition between israel and saudi arabia and expansion of the Abraham Accords. How would you sustain that Forward Movement . And how would you limit these attacks from developing into a wider regional conflict . And how would you work to contain irans malign influence . Mr. Lew senator first, i i said this before but ill say it again. We have outstanding Public Servants, including our acting ambassador who are doing the business. Um and i agree with you. Its important to have confirmed ambassadors. One does not contradict the other. Um i also agree with the comments that have been made by several senators that just as an observer from the outside. I think this attack was time to try to undermine the normalization process and to to make it harder. The way you respond to that is by coming right back as soon as you can. This is not a moment where people can concentrate on what the shape of the discussion the day after is. But my view is the way you prevent a terrorist organization by winning is you dont get terrorized, you dont run away, you stick to whats in your National Interest and you work hard at it. It was always going to be a challenging negotiation to get a normalization agreement. I think it will clearly now be more challenging because the Public Opinion in many places will be at such a different level after this war and a role we can play as the United States and weve often played is to bring people together to keep that conversation going. I hope, and this may just be that im an Eternal Optimist because otherwise you give in to, you know, the worst of man. I think that coming out of this, there will be an understanding that some of these issues have to be dealt with and the shape of how theyre dealt with wont be the same as it was before the conflict, but it will have to be done in a way that gives israel the ability to defend itself to protect its people from future attacks like this. And we have to do it with our eyes wide open about the fact that we arabia and israel were in a place where they had made a decision that this was something very much worth pursuing. And i hope when this is over, we can help get that conversation going again. And i hope members of this committee who are determined to help move that forward will also in a bipartisan way contribute to it before my time ends. And i hope members of this committee who are determined to help move that forward will also in a bipartisan way contribute to it before my time ends. I just, my senior senator, senator carper was the Ranking Member on the permanent subcommittee for investigations and just for those who are pressing you and trouble by that report, he refused to sign it. He found that its conclusions in his estimation were a partisan effort at attacking the previous administrations iran policy rather than a specific and credible conclusion about you and your conduct. Ill let senator carpers Public Statement speak for itself. But for folks who are wrestling with that in any way, id encourage them to talk to my colleague, senator carper who i think is as evenhanded balanced and bipartisan a senator has, has served in the modern era. So i dont know if theres anything you wanted to say in response to that. Mr. Lew i appreciate your bringing that to the attention of the committee. Its a point that senator harper has made to me as well. Sen. Koons well, thank you for your willingness to take on this Important Service and its my hope that we will proceed quickly with your confirmation. Thank you, mr secretary. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you, senator ricketts. Sen. Ricketts thank you very much, mr chairman. Thank you mr liu for being here. Thank you mr lew for being here. The attacks and atrocities that hamas committed were one of the darkest days in israels history. We saw reports of babies and toddlers beheaded, women were and paraded bloody through the streets. Weve seen kidnappings, including of children and this isnt something that is confined just to israelis. We know theres not only 1400 israelis have been killed, but 31 americans have been killed and we are also concerned about the hostages that include not just israelis but potentially americans as well. And hamas continues to block the evacuation routes within gaza so they can use palestinians, children and civilians in gaza as human shields. They force innocents into harm way and harms way for their twisted propaganda. Hamas represents the worst of humanity. I believe the us must stand shoulder to shoulder with the state of israel. We need to stand with them their time as they have declared war on hamas to fight this war. It is a in that context that when i hear for calls of ceasefire or de escalation, thats just foolishness. This is a war that israel needs to prosecute and we need to give israel the weapons they need to be able to do it. We need to give them interceptors for the iron dome, additional batteries to protect innocent israelis from these rocket attacks. Now, obviously there was an intelligence failure to detect this attack and time will come to be able to dig into what happened there and address it. But even worse, the Biden Administrations failed policy on iran has enabled hamas to make these attacks in the first place. Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism. They support hamas. Hamas would not be able to do this without irans support. Since coming to office, the Biden Administration has failed to enforce the iranian Oil Sanctions. We heard that from the chairman or Ranking Member earlier and thats provided the regime billions of dollars, tens of billions of dollars of funding that has subsequently could be used for funding terrorists and especially their proxy hamas to attack israel. And according to a wall street journal report that while the i rgc was cordoning an attack with hamas to kill israelis, the Biden Administration was negotiating a secret deal to be able to free up 6 billion of money for iran and that certainly goes to if that report is true, how iran just holds nothing but contempt for the United States and will deal behind our back even while trying to negotiate. You know, these are just mind boggling decisions. Its a continuation of the disastrous Obama Administration, iran policy that you mr lew helped orchestrate. You were one of the careers of the flawed iran nuclear deal. Iran wants to annihilate israel when it wants to wipe them off the face of the earth. The iran deal given its very sunsets would have put iran on a path to be able to continue to enrich uranium for a Nuclear Weapon. And its a certain irony that one of those sunsets, the us prohibition against iran missile and drone activity which iran was already violating is set to expire today. The deal that provided iran with billions of dollars in sanctions relief that you oversaw. This relief is subsidized, the support for hamas that them to carry out. Like the ones we saw 11 days ago. This deal was so bad that Prime Minister netanyahu had come to before the congress to speak out against it and you criticize that. Um and and were gonna get to that in just here a second. The barbaric events of october 7 are a referendum on the disastrous iran policy started under the Obama Administration, Obama Administration and continued under this Biden Administration. The Biden Administration needs to complete a complete overhaul in the way that we see iran and how we deal with it. And my fear mr lew is that you are more simply of the same, you just represent a continuation of that policy. So i have some questions and these are yes or no questions just i want to clarify some of the facts here on what you believe. Do you believe that the Biden Administration should continue to restart the jcpa talks . Mr. Lew i dont think this is the moment for us to be negotiating with iran. I believe deeply that an agreement to not have Nuclear Weapons would be a good thing. But this is not the moment. Sen. Ricketts um mr lew in 2017 at an event at columbia university, did you say quote, the personal dynamic between the president and the Prime Minister was not as good as one might have hoped and it was both in both directions. I mean, i saw as much provocation coming from the Prime Minister, i saw more provocation coming and then i saw going out. Is that an accurate quote . Mr. Lew i dont remember the exact words, but it is something that i said to a group of students and it was a balanced statement where even what you read was criticizing my own president as well. I thought there was blame to go around. So when Prime Minister netanyahu came here in his 2015 speech, you, you did you criticize and saying it went beyond the pale of what you just what you can just ignore. And it was a huge mistake for israel. Mr. Lew i, i did think it was a mistake uh to, to have uh something that would create a partisan division over us support for israel which for 75 years has been bipartisan. Uh do you believe israel should continue to recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel . Jerusalem is recognized now as the capital of jerusalem. Theres no discussion of changing that i if confirmed, well be living in jerusalem and that is the policy of the United States. And so you believe we should keep our embassy there . Well, we first need to build an embassy. Uh we have a presence but uh having been deputy secretary of state, i know it takes a long time anywhere to build an embassy. Sen. Ricketts thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for time. Mr. Lew if i can just make one point, uh mr chair, if i can, because you said that this administration was negotiating to give iran its money back. I think what this administration was doing was negotiating to bring americans home, who are being kept captive in iran. And they made the judgment that releasing monies that were being held pursuant to policies of the Prior Administration could be moved in a way that iran could use them as the Prior Administration had agreed to. Thats very different from saying were going to negotiate to give iran money. So do you believe that it was appropriate then to release these funds to get our, the people iran was keeping basically paid to get those americans out. Do you believe that was that . Mr. Lew i can tell you that bringing americans home safely will be one of my highest priorities if im in israel and there are now americans being held hostage in gaza and i dont know what it will take to do that, but ill wake up every day asking what can i do to bring americans home safely . So, but you do believe that it was appropriate to pay iran to get the americans back to tell you the truth. Senator, im not deeply enough familiar with it. I wasnt in government when the decision was made. I dont know all the trade offs. I do know the passion that goes behind bringing americans home safely. Sen. Ricketts thank you, mister chairman. Senator murphy. Sen. Murphy thank you very much, mister chairman. I for one am damn glad we have a president who cares about bringing our hostages home. One of those individuals was connecticut resident with a lot of family in my home state. Their life has changed knowing that he is back home and im thankful we have a president who cares about that, proud of this committee for showing a real allied demonstration of support for israel in a equally nonpolitical condemnation of hamass unspeakable acts of brutality. I want to thank the chairman and the Ranking Member for leading us through the last week and a half. And i want to thank you secretary lew for your continued deep commitment to your country and your commitment to serve. I i want to come back to this question of sanctions policy during the period of time that were administering the jcpoa and just, you know, make sure that i have it right. Um, it sounds like iranian access to the us Financial System was never on the table as part of any deal. And even if it were frankly, it was unlikely that any Financial Institution would have engaged in these transactions due to the very obvious compliance risk. Um, iran was pretty upset about that and ill just enter into the record if i could three articles from this period of time entitled iran. Us at odds over Nuclear Sanctions relief. Rouhani claims the us is violating its commitments under the nuclear deal. Iran warns enduring sanctions threaten the nuclear deal. Without objection it will be part of the record. Sen. Murphy so my understanding is that us banks never facilitated transactions over compliance fears and that the iranians found this deeply frustrating and in fact threatened to pull out of their side of the agreement because they felt that we were being too tough in administering and holding to nonNuclear Sanctions. Is that an accurate description . Mr. Lew its certainly my recollection. Sen. Murphy um second, um i want to talk to you about um whats happening in the west bank today . More than 58 palestinians have been killed in the west bank and East Jerusalem since october 7. Theres been nightly clashes between Security Services and protesters, settlers have attacked and destroyed palestinian homes. Obviously, our greatest priority is Holding Hamas accountable but a close second is making sure that this crisis doesnt spread. Um, how do you assess the Palestinian Authoritys ability to maintain security in the west bank . Whats the path forward for the Palestinian Authority in the west bank in light of its pretty diminished and shattered credibility . And is it a continued policy priority for the United States to do the things necessary to support the administration of justice inside the west bank. Mr. Lew senator, i have believed for a long time that if theres going to be any hope of a two state solution. One of the foundations of any stable entity is the ability to have a legal system and a Security System in place. I was proud of the work we did over many years to build the training and the level of responsibility of Palestinian Security forces. And my understanding is that that is resumed and that theres bipartisan support for that activity. Its really hard, its really hard to build a stable force and it requires sustained engagement. And if im confirmed as ambassador building those institutions is something that i will pay a great deal of attention to because i dont think you can have security and stability without a security force. Sen. Murphy well, and i think it will be part of the work of this committee and this congress in the coming days as we try to put in place the prophylactic measures to stop the spread of this conflict to make sure that were supporting the administration of the rule of milan in gaza, excuse me in the west bank. Um finally, i just want to ask you about a breakthrough agreement that got very little attention in the press, not as much as it should have. And this was the agreement between israel and lebanon on maritime rights. Um, obviously our top priority now is preventing hezbollah from opening up another front. Um, but i just wanted to make sure that one of your priorities um outside of the administration of this crisis and conflict is going to continue to capitalize on the progress that has been made, uh remarkable progress between israel and lebanon to create this maritime border. But to use it as a foundation to israel has now indigenous Natural Gas Resources and that its a source of part of the ability to partner with other countries in the region to be able to help europe through a crisis because of russias invasion of ukraine. And um, i must say that when i was in government the last time, it was a flicker of a dream to get there. I remember when israeli officials came over to observe an energy, a license auction and my daughter whos sitting behind me was working at the department of interior and helped translate for them what was being said in english about Energy Auction so they would understand it in hebrew. And um its now a real resource, its being developed. Um its not without its controversy. The borders are controversial. Maritime issues are not my area of great uh expertise, but i will get up to speed on them very quickly if confirmed. Sen. Murphy uh thank you, mr chairman. Senator barrasso. Sen. Barrasso well, thank you, mr chairman. Youve heard from everyone here. Israel is one of our nations strongest allies since october 7th. The world has seen the terror and violence inflicted by hamas and all of us strongly condemn hamas invasion of israel which involved killing and wounding thousands of israeli civilians. Americans were also among those injured and killed and taken hostage by hamas. As israel fights these terrorist attacks, the United States remains unwavering. Youve heard that here today as well in our commitment to israels security with the incredible challenges facing israel. Its vital that we have the right person serving as the Us Ambassador to israel. And i think its especially true in light of President Bidens repeated failed policies that i see as failed in the region. Todays nominee, i believe seems to be the wrong person for this important job. And as secretary of treasury in the Obama Administration, he helped negotiate the disastrous Iranian Nuclear deal. In fact, he went about bragging about the flawed deal to American People. Secretary of treasury, he unlocked a lot of iranian assets and let them have their money. He also really was an atm to the iranian ayatollah. No one is going to forget the pallets of cash going to iran, which was the largest state sponsor of terrorism. We know how they use the money. The secretary of treasury, he helped orchestrate 1. 7 billion in cash to be flown in an unmarked cargo plane, cash directly to iran, also oversaw the 400 million ransom payment to iran in exchange for american hostages. The massive influx of cash, ultimately a direct deposit into irans terrorism account. Additionally, in 2016, he defended the Obama Administrations unwillingness to veto a u. N. Security Council Resolution that was seen as an anti israel resolution. Congress in a bipartisan way, disagreed with that position in the administration. In fact, we overwhelmingly passed a bipartisan resolution objecting to it and demanding that it be repealed. So, so here we are, these decisions, these actions have serious consequences and i believe they have emboldened terrorist organizations around the globe and that the American People and the israeli people both deserve something different. So mr lew, hamas soldiers have reportedly been found with documents detailing their plans to target schools, target civilians during the raid. Another document directed hamas units to kill as many as possible as well as capture hostages. Over 4000 dead, 31 americans among those killed others taken hostage. Weve had the debate about how to best get them home in terms of the american citizens whos responsible for the 32 the 31 americans who have died in this conflict . Mr. Lew senator, i as secretary of the treasury also sanctioned hamas and took actions to try and stop the flow of money to hamas. Its not a new thing that hamas is a terrorist organization. I earlier offered some views that would challenge some of the characterization you just made of how the jcpoa did or didnt affect hamas. The sad reality is iran was supporting hamas before jcpoa, they supported it during the period of maximum pressure. They will spend their first dollars on evil. Theyre not going to stop doing this and iran is a maligned force. Iran provided the arms. They provided training whether they were involved in anything more proximate. I am not inside any circles of intelligence to know Public Information suggests that it may not have been as clear if confirmed. I will keep my eye on iran as a force that is hostile to israels existence. They want to push israel into the sea and we cant let that happen. Sen. Barrasso well, you know, the interesting point is that the failure of this administration to enforce the iranian Oil Sanctions helped finance hamas and other iranian proxies. Its how you can stop the money but a lot we have allowed this administration has allowed a lot of money to get there. Iran is the home of the worlds Third Largest reserves of crude oil. It uses the revenue from its oil exports to support its repression and terrorist activities. The more money they have, the more activities were going to see. In spite of all efforts to block it along the way, i repeatedly raised concerns about the impact of this administration refusing to enforce existing sanctions on the Energy Sector in an attempt to convince iran to rejoin this terrible Iranian Nuclear deal. It seems that the president did relax sanctions enforcement on iran to the point that iran generated about 80 billion in oil revenue. Under this administration, oman and iran have signed a variety of deals in the oil and gas sector. Chinas state owned refineries and private companies are buying up 1. 2 Million Barrels of iranian oil every day. And were allowing that to happen. The Iranian Regime is getting hundreds of billions of dollars to fund hamas hezbollah other terrorist proxies. So so what, then why is this administration failed to fully enforce sanctions on entities involved in these illicit transactions with iran given the fact that every dollar they make theyre going to use in a bad way . Mr. Lew well, senator, first of all, the monies that were released were subject to being used only for humanitarian purposes, for food and medicine. That was an arrangement reached in the last administration, not the current administration. So its not just a new issue and the intel that i was privy to back in the day when i had access to internal discussions suggested very clearly that the unmet needs were pressing and would need to be met and that if there was leakage, it would be on the margin, it wouldnt change the direction of irans support. Thats not a great answer. I, i, im not happy until they stop supporting people who commit the acts of butchery that we saw just days ago. And i have to tell you as somebody who grew up, i, im an observant jew. I observe our festivals, including the sad ones. Theres days of the year when we read dirges about what human beings can do to each other that i never took literally until this month ive never seen in my lifetime. Human beings treat other human beings face to face, eyeball to eyeball the way jews were slaughtered because they were jews. Thats at my core, senator. Thank you, mr chairman, senator booker. Sen. Booker thank you, mr chairman secretary lew. Its very good to see you here. I was in israel when the rockets attacks began and took shelter in the hotel bomb shelter and had the faces of people observing ss castor all around me who couldnt check their phones. But we were seeing the dawning reality that this was not just a rocket attack but the most heinous grotesque attack on jewish people since the holocaust. It was sobering to understand that not just hamas being a terrorist organization, but they were attacking other humans in ways with a barbarity that was just unimaginable. Uh, you know this, well, hamas is an organization that is very founding is to kill jews and they have no consideration for the obvious of, of israels uh uh strength. They understood completely that they, as they scurried back into gaza that they would put uh palestinians lives at risk. Uh and its clear from their history, they dont care about palestinian lives. They have abducted palestinians , tortured palestinians, killed the palestinians all to pursue their terroristic aims. And we know that they have often focused on disrupting efforts towards peace after oslo where arafat and rabin came to a great accord. They began immediately attacking israelis, attacking civilians, bombing buses. And more, so i im grateful you are sitting here now. I, i agree with many of my colleagues on the urgency to get you confirmed into the position. I will tell you and its been said by others, bipartisan leaders are coming about who are talking to your character. I, i have rarely had a situation where someone sits before me where ive had calls from my republican friends, as well as democratic friends who all testify. They might not agree with the policies of the administrations youve served, but they testify to your character. And that to me is a time at the time that we need uh principal people leading in important positions, it gives me great solace in this time of great despair and heartbreak that you will be stepping forward. I want to thank your family uh for their commitment and their sacrifice as well. I want to start uh with uh just simply saying that last night, i along with senator ernst and the a Bipartisan Group of senators sent a letter to President Biden, urging the administration to continue their efforts with our regional partners to secure the release of almost 200 civilian hostages, including over a dozen that are being held by hamas. Im assuming that thats going to be one of your first and, and, and principal duties. Mr. Lew absolutely, senator, i dont think any of us can rest until we know weve done everything we can do to bring people home safely. Sen. Booker im grateful for the president s leadership at this time. I think its been extraordinary. He is another person that i got to know during a president ial primary of great character. Im grateful that hes talking a lot about humanitarian assistance and the fact that democracies are strong when they abide by the rule of law and they take into account uh humanitarian urgencies, mis uh the pursuit of uh uh of war. Um once youre confirmed, you commit to doing everything in your power to facilitate the flow of humanitassistance to the people of gaza and ensure that the innocent civilians and humanitarian aid workers are able to seek shelter and get the resources they need to help minimize consequences to civilian life. Mr. Lew senator, i think its critical that we do everything we can to help innocent civilians without giving resources to terrorists who mean to do harm to innocent israelis. And i will work hard to do that. Even while weve been sitting here, im told that the president has committed 100 million in refugee assistance , that there are negotiations that have been concluded or are well underway to open a humanitarian corridor. Innocent civilians should not pay the price for terrorists. Terrorists should not hide behind innocent civilians. And it is just a necessity that we are in an environment now where its very hard, very hard to separate the two populations. We have to try. Sen. Booker i think that not only is it urgent that we show our resolute unwavering, unequivocal support for israel, i think those principles you just said as well, we should give that resolute commitment. I want to zoom out real quickly. Um, im very committed to the larger, winning the war is, is, is what obviously, theres a lot of focus on that right now against hamas, eradicating hamas. But winning the peace is, is critical as well. And thinking from a larger lenge, the United States has been very focused on supporting israel uh uh as well as supporting the larger Regional Peace that has been evolving since the Abraham Accords. I think its, its an incredible sign that there was conversations going on with palestinian leaders, uh with the saudis. In fact, their first visit to the west bank since 67 to have conversations, mbs goes on fox news and talks about uh uh every day moving closer towards normalization with israel and how palestinians are center of that. I talked to u. S. Negotiators about that. In fact, one of my purposes for my trip to israel was to meet with palestinian leaders as well as israeli leaders about expanding the Abraham Accords and normalization with saudi arabia and the principal part that the palestinians would play going back towards a two state solution. Just in closing, could you just give me some affirmation that that is also a very urgent part of your mission as well . Mr. Lew yeah, i, i think its critical to get back to the business of addressing the Strategic Security and growth of the region and the things you described are right at the core of it and we have to do it in a way where the lives of palestinians can improve and the security of israel is not put at jeopardy. I think going back into a serious discussion of expanding the Abraham Accords which were very important to include saudi arabia and israel normalizing relations is crucial and i pledge to work with this committee, with congress, with members on both sides, whether they support my nomination or not to help that come about. Sen. Booker im grateful for you sitting here and grateful for your willingness to serve. And so to say, yer koach, thank. Mr. Lew thank you, as we would say, you should be blessed,. Senator scott. Sen. Scott thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for being here before i start asking questions of you. I do want to make a point that in many ways israel is now fighting a war on a different front. In addition to the war with hamas, its a war of misinformation. Uh theres no doubt and unfortunately, the media carrying the false narrative regarding the hospital bombing. This narrative originated with hamas, the same people who murdered women and children, same people who burn babies who beheaded little ones. And as a result of that lie carried by New York Times and the ap and others, a summit in jordan was canceled. Other meetings that biden had scheduled, canceled literally protest around the globe at our embassies. And an attempt very clear and specific attempt to weaken israels position rather than waiting for all the facts that carried the hamas narrative that is dangerous and it could be more costly in lives in the current conflict, and the long term impact of a misinformation campaign. Frankly, a misinformation war could be deadly to the efforts of israel, deadly to the unified support coming from our nation and something that we should all take very seriously as americans and we certainly do not need members of congress from the squad being a part of the Propaganda Machine coming out of washington dc in support of hamas. I think its very dangerous and in these times we need the truth. The truth is incredibly important and getting the facts should be necessary before reporting on this remarkable, frankly disgusting war that were seeing perpetrated against israel. Uh youve heard a number of my colleagues talk about your role in the previous the Obama Administration and the impact that your role has had on resources being released through the jcpoa for iran. And frankly, i think many of the questions are fair and your commentary is necessary. Iran policy is without question israel policy. They are the greatest enemy that israel faces and frankly the greatest funders of terrorism, state funders of terrorism anywhere in the world. Uh and we know that 90 of the funds that hamas receives comes from iran. And one of the things that we have debated and we will continue to debate, im sure, the 6 billion paid for hostages when obama paid 400 million. I said then several years ago that that will only raise the price on an american head abroad and 6 billion only makes it worse. I i heard you say that the money can only be used for humanitarian aid. I would just say that why you see why you see the president of, of iran said it very clearly that they will use the money in any way they want to use the money period. Beyond the fact that money is fungible is really important as well. My question for you though is that the administration insists that the 6 billion transfer is in no way associated with any efforts to renegotiate the nuclear deal. Although those efforts have been going on for secretly for, for months. And so my question to you is, do you believe that there are that without need to submit the, do you believe that there are any efforts Going Forward on a negotiation . And if there are, would there be a need for that to be submitted to congress . Mr. Lew so senator im not in the administration and im not privy to the current state of affairs. Im not aware of any ongoing negotiations. And i said earlier, this is not the moment, even if one believes that someday a negotiated solution may be right. And i have to agree with something you said it shouldnt be that hard to call out atrocities like we saw two weeks ago, not even two weeks ago. Some things are just what they are. Sen. Scott yes. Mr. Lew and butchering almost 1500 babies old people. Holocaust survivors hand to hand face to face is barbarism that whatever one thinks about the right wrong of different positions in this conflict should be easy to call out. Im proud to see President Biden taking the stand that hes been taking. And even this morning when i heard his comments on the horrible bombing of a hospital in gaza, you know, he was not giving into disinformation. He was shooting straight in the fog of the moment. You dont have perfect information. And he said from everything he sees, it was not israel that did it. That isnt changing where people out in the streets, in some countries think it is. Its very dangerous and you have to call out the facts. Sen. Scott well, one of the things that you just reminded me of a scripture says jeremiah 79 says that the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. And one of the things that weve and one of the things that weve seen taking place today in for the last 10 days or so is the atrocities and the evil broughton brought upon the jewish people. Again, i assume that you would say that you had no actual clue what was happening in the administration. So not, not surprised by that. I would certainly say that some evidence suggests that the, that their iranian enrichment activities began to taper off this summer weeks before the transfer was announced. I know that im running short on time. It appears that the five minutes moves faster down here for me. So i have another senator may proceed. Thank you very much, sir. Just a really quick thought here, mr liu, you the omb director in 2011. My assumption is that when president obama made the decision to strike against Osama Bin Laden and his compound, that you, you thought that was a good deal. Good idea. I dont want there to be any confusion. The omb director does not in the decision like that. Ive seen you as the treasury secretary finance committee. I recognize that i shared the feeling that it was a just action to address an act of terrible murder in my city of new york. And in other places, final comment is that the over the weekend we saw i will hunt, say they will hunt down every last man with the blood of israels children on their hands. Would you support israel pursuing the perpetrators of this heinous attack on foreign soil as we did in 2011 . Senator ii, i hesitate to answer a hypothetical question that i dont know the scope of what i will say without condition is that israel has not just a right, but as the president has said the responsibility to defend its people. And as we were talking about earlier in this hearing, its not for revenge, its for defending your people. And i think israel has the right to do that and they should do it. They will by their basic nature, do it in a way that tries to minimize collateral damage. Well, chairman, youve been very gracious with the extension of my 5. 5 minutes. So i really appreciate that very much, sir. I got to get your, your clock there. Youve extended the day. I dont know how you did it. Its called football time, sir. Senator shots. Thank you, mr chairman, vice chair. Thank you mr liu for being here. Thank you mr liu for being here. Thank you to your family. What does israel mean to you . You know, senator. I could answer that question as a former public official that its our most important ally and a critically important region of the world. I could answer it as somebody who grew up believing that the safety and security of the state of israel was nothing less than the safety and security of jews. All over the world. So its not a simple answer of what israel means to me. I have not always agreed with the policies of the government of israel and some people have questioned my relationship with Prime Minister netanyahu. We have disagreed on many issues. Weve known each other for over three decades. But its been with the kind of respect and confidence that each has the interest of the security of the state of israel always deep inside them. It is, i think worth noting that the most ferocious disagreements regarding israel happen at family dinner among jews. And so, even now the dialogue in israel is a little more cacophonous even than the dialogue in the United States. Just worth noting. Can you talk a little bit about the need for a full fledged Senate Confirmed ambassador on the ground . And i know we sort of gloss over it and say its important, the charge is doing a good job, but we need a person there. But tell me how as a practical matter, it makes a difference to have a Senate Confirmed ambassador on the ground. You know, senator. Its interesting because a short period of time has kind of changed how i would answer that question. Two weeks ago, i would have said with the middle east, not on the front burner, but it remaining a central core issue of importance. Having a confirmed ambassador who clearly represents is a representative of the president with the president s ear, with a history of Public Service thats well understood was critically important because it wasnt getting the attention of the president and the secretary of state the way it had in previous times when peace talks were the central focus today. The president is in israel. The secretary of state has been in the region for a week. Um clearly theres an enormous amount of attention at the very highest level of our government. But god willing, there will be a moment not too far from now when the war is not the central issue and the future is once the future is the issue again, having a confirmed ambassador is crucially important. And i say that with the greatest respect for our Foreign Service officers, i was deputy secretary of state. I dont know our current charge personally weve met over zoom and phone just in these past weeks, but ive developed the highest regard for her and have only heard very strong things. Its not a criticism of the people who step in. Its actually to their credit, they have the capacity to step in and step up. But it doesnt mean that you shouldnt have a confirmed ambassador. Two more questions specifically about the west bank, just your thoughts on how we prevent this conflict from metastasizing and obviously, there are geopolitical implications and a regional war that were worried about. But it seems to me that one of our primary objectives ought to be to prevent conflict in the west bank. And then weve got two fronts in this war in this conflict. Id like your thoughts on that. So, i think preventing this from becoming a multi front war is hugely important for israel, for the region, for the world. I think the decision that the president made to dispatch the Aircraft Carrier fleet, gerald ford and now to have a second Aircraft Carrier group on the way is a powerful, powerful message to anyone who thinks that this should be a moment of opportunity to take advantage of. I dearly hope that we dont have to use those resources. You deploy those resources in order not to have to use them, but they demonstrate the capacity. Should you need to one comment . And then one question, it seems to me that as, as some of our colleagues have tried to sort of poke holes in your resume and, and justify a no vote that your primary transgression is that you worked for democrats in the past. I mean, thats what this is. And um and, and i think its important, i think its fair actually that if someone disagrees so vehemently about the jcpoa fair enough, but to challenge your character to say that you lied when you didnt to characterize a partisan report as a bipartisan report when it wasnt, is unfair to you, its unfair to all Public Servants who put themselves at that table, final question, i want to take it for the record just to stay on time. I think senator scotts question about the kind of fog of war and the new information, um, warfare and the complications of social media and deep fakes and just, a toxic stew, especially on the internet. Theres lots of lying and warfare in any case, but it can be accelerated and, and its just worse than ever. And i would just like your thoughts, for the record. Later on what you think the ambassador can do to be a reliable, consistent source of information in this information age, which probably means youre looking at 3 to 4 hour increments of posting reliable information. I people. No, im on twitter. Ive shut down the app because i cant find anything that i can rely upon and i think thats not a small thing if people dont know where to go for good information. Ironically, senator, ive never used social media. Ive been told that if i have confirmed, i will have to learn how well my recommendation is. Have someone do it for you. Thank you, senator haggerty. Thank you, mr chairman secretary lew. Id like to turn to an area that, you know. Well, thats israels sworn enemy, iran. And ill ask you a very simple question. Is the security of america, the security of israel better or worse if iran has more funds or less funds. Senator, i think that my actions have demonstrated that denying iran funds when they commit malign acts is something that is in our interest. I have sanctioned iran, i have enforced sanctions on iran. And the fact that in an agreement to roll back irans Nuclear Program, releasing funds to iran was part of the bargain is the way sanctions work. You dont get sovereign countries to change their policy without some concession on the sanctions. Well, regarding the concessions, i just want to say that iran as we know funds its proxies hamas and hezbollah Biden Administration officials have very recently just admitted this fact. Last week, National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan said and i quote, iran has provided the lions share of the funding for the military wing of hamas. National Security Council spokesman john kirby, another quote, hamas wouldnt have been able to function at all. Had it not been for propping up by the Iranian Regime. Mister chairman, id like to enter both of these quotes for the record. Ill give the senator the additional time. If youre showing a poster, it would be nice if the committee could see the poster. Just certainly, certainly we have a second one. Can you place that right there, daniel in front of the secretary, the other posters, the chairman would like to be able to see it too. Dont you have a second copy of it . Just a moment, mr chairman . But thats a different poster theyre different posters. Well turn that, turn that a bit to show the chairman. Its a very simple poster. I have to confess. Senator, i cant read it either. So i dont know. Ill explain what it is. Mr secretary. Its a year by year poster showing the revenues going to iran. It shows what happened when the maximum Pressure Campaign was imposed. I worked on that maximum Pressure Campaign stopping the japanese from buying iranian crude. They stopped, we brought their revenues, iranian revenues down to below 8 billion. Youll see that in 2020. Thats the low point on this chart than in 2021. These are the last two bars, 2021 and 2022. You see a dramatic increase in revenues to iran. Now think about this in 2020 as the maximum Pressure Campaign was imposed, it was widely reported that hamas and hezbollah were going broke in 2021. We had the violence from gaza into israel the 11 day war. Weve seen whats happened now. So im going to come back to my question again and ask whats changed. Well, senator, i cant, i cant read it. I cant comment on the specific numbers. Candidly, its seven years the policy, but i can tell you two things first. What was true when i was at the department of treasury and what has been true since even during the period of maximum pressure is that iran has put funding malign activities, like support for hamas terrorism above everything else. And it doesnt cost that much. So they have been bad actors when theyve had a lot of oil revenue, when theyve had less oil revenue. I dont doubt that, but the effectiveness of it has been dramatically different based on the impact of the maximum Pressure Campaign. And again, you can see the magnitude of this chart but i i was trying to make a slightly different point if i understand what this chart says. The funds into iran went down. Im saying 2020 then 2021 and 22 theyve gone up dramatically. Im not aware that funding for hamas and hezbollah went down. You know, i i will get brief. I think youre aware of the results of it, mr mr secretary and in terms of whats changed, i think its very obvious whats changed. Joe biden was inaugurated in 2021. The maximum Pressure Campaign was abandoned and now a policy of appeasement has been undertaken with iran. Thats whats allowed them to enrich themselves. Let me turn to another area of great concern and that is the special envoy for iran rob malley. Hes now suspended. His security clearances have been lifted and hes under federal investigation. Do you know rob malley . I havent, yes, ive known him. I havent talked to him in years. Did he undertake efforts to quash sanctions enforcement on iran . I do not recall rob malley having a role in the enforcement of sanctions. Well, very obviously, something has dramatically changed here. And its clear to me that the Biden Administrations enforcement of sanctions against iran is every bit as ineffective as the Biden Administrations enforcement of our border security. Everything and everyone gets through and the results have been deadly. I just want to say this. If youre selected to be chief of mission, your number one priority is going to be the safety and security of americans. Absolutely. Weve already lost 30 american lives. 13 are held hostage. That needs to be your absolute priority. Mr secretary senator, i couldnt agree with you more. And ive said earlier in this hearing, there wont be a day when i wake up where that isnt top of mind. Well, it is clear to me that this administration does not have our safety and security at interest because of this enrichment of iran that has allowed this type of behavior to happen. Thank you, mr chairman and the chair has been very lenient. Well, allowing members to pursue the Nuclear Issues with iran, i just would like to point out we do have a nominee for the office of sanctions coordinator. And i hope that we can get a hearing on that nominee because i think that would be the appropriate place to talk about sanctions enforcement and previous policies concerning sanction enforcement. So i hope we can get a hearing on that. And i think that would probably be the more appropriate setting for us to deal with the sanction policies. Just pointing it out to my dear friend mr tennessee and withthe deepest respect, the chief of mission will be the president s representative in israel. I understand and i think the policies are absolutely critical because israel is in mortal danger as are americans. And this Funding Program thats been allowed to go on is absolutely critical to irans ability to fund their proxies like hamas and hezbollah. Weve got to acknowledge this, recognize it and deal with it. Thank you very much, sir, senator merkley, mr secretary. Thank you. Were all aware that gaza is one of the most densely populated places in the world. 139 square miles, an average of 17,000 people per square mile. If you are confirmed, will you work with israel with the government of israel to minimize the harm to civilians . Senator, i think minimizing the harm to civilians is something that is a, a moral obligation and i only wish uh one could say that there would be no collateral damage. But as weve learned in war there is and the goal as you put it is to minimize will you if you are confirmed, work with israel to make sure that schools and hospitals and power and Water Systems are not targeted. Senator, if confirmed, i will work with israel to underscore what President Biden has i think said very eloquently that they have a right and a responsibility to defend israel. But that what binds us together is a shared belief in democracy and rule of law, including the law of war. Do you agree that schools, hospitals, power and Water Systems should not be targeted . So i im unable to answer the hypothetical question because there are cases where hamas is hiding behind civilians with Material Command centers, leaders and how you define something as a school or a command post. It makes all the difference. I will, i will state for the record that i believe schools and hospitals and power and Water Systems should not be targeted. And mr chairman, id like to put into the record if theres no objection, an article by thomas friedman, why a gaza invasion once and for all thinking are wrong for israel if no wrong for israel if no objection. Thanks. Thank you very much, mr friedman points out. And that irans number one strategic objective with israel has been to ensure that israel remains enmeshed in the west bank and irans most fevered dreams reoccupies, gaza, do you agree with mr friedmansysis . I think hamass goal is the elimination of israel and they will pursue any strategy that they think advances that goal. So i know youre not specifically responding to mr friedmans quote, but i would rather read it the whole thing in context. Tom is a friend of mine. But before i agree or disagree with something. I really would need to read it. Well, i think its pretty accurate. He notes that keeping it irans goal to keep israel a meshed in the west bank and most fevered dream in, in gaza does, does reflect a lot of intelligence and experience information over, over time. He then, lays out that if there is a ground offensive into israel, it could have numerous impacts including blowing up the Abraham Accords, destabilizing egypt and jordan as key allies, making normalization of relations between israel and saudi arabia impossible. And notes that these would be huge strategic setbacks both for the United States and for israel. Do you agree with him . Yes, senator, i think that the task of any nation to defend its people, forces leaders to make very hard decisions. I cant sit here today and say, i know with precision what it is that will defend the state of israel and the people of israel. I believe that the government of israel will try to make those decisions in a way that will be successful but not lead to the kind of long term entanglement that i believe thats that, that comment is to, you know, at the moment, you know, im not going to sit here and prejudge exactly where that line goes. But the point mister friedmans making is that these are key strategic objectives of the United States that we have stakes in the region and that there are huge risks of the entanglement comes with the ground offensive. And, and quite frankly, i think hes pretty accurately described those risks. He concludes by noting it will play into irans strategy of israel into an overstretched situation and weaken the jewish democracy from within. I just want to make the point that we also have important strategies and goals as a nation that our diplomat, our ambassador will bring into the conversations. And that we need to have an ambassador whoswilling and able to bring that discussion to bear. And you, you do have the experience to bring insights on the potential impacts that affect both israeli interests and american interests. And i assume youre going to do that as ambassador senator, i hope i have demonstrated over my career that im not shy about sharing what i believe to be the right policy. Ive never been shy to defend the interests of the United States and ive tried to do it in a way where i can maintain relations with people. I disagree with. Ive had many conversations with the Prime Minister of israel where we havent agreed and we have a relationship where i believe he has trust in me. So i, i will be in a position to raise issues. I just cant sit here today and say exactly what the lines will be in the fog of war i am deeply empathetic with the people of israel after this horrific slaughter by hamas, just shocking and devastating and savage. I also believe that we have a responsibility to do everything we can to work with israel to defend innocent palestinians who are as much victims of hamas as many others. And that, that needs to be part of the effort that we carry. Absolutely. And as i said earlier, even while weve been sitting here, agreement was reached our humanitarian corridors, the president committed 100 million to humanitarian relief. I dont have the details. I just have a note that those those things happen while weve been sitting here and i think thats crucially important. Thank you, senator young mr liu. Welcome. Congratulations on your nomination. This important position, grateful for your desire to serve the country in this capacity. But before i begin, thank you for the conversation we had in my office. It was frank, it was open. I recognize that if youre confirmed, youll be taking a Critical Role at an incredibly challenging time. But it is now even more challenging because of the role that iran has been permitted to have an outfitting, encouraging and possibly directing. We dont know for sure the terrorist acts of its regional proxies. So we dont know the breadth of, of some of those directives. When we spoke, we spent quite a bit of time on iran and your former role as treasury secretary. I know thats been subject of, of a lot of conversation today, including the role that treasury played in implementing the financial aspects of the Obama Administrations iran deal. I wanted to follow up on some of my questions in the hope that youve had a chance to review the particulars of our discussion and treasurys role when treasury issued specific licenses as opposed to the general licenses to enable the conversion of iranian funds into euros. Was this transaction directly connected to the Financial Relief at the core of the jcpoa and associated Un Resolutions or was it connected to socalled side deals . For example, between iran and the iaea that were kept from congress. Now, this distinction matters because i believe it lies at the heart of how congress was left in the dark. Before and after the j cpo a was negotiated and went into effect. Please respond. Senator. I appreciate you taking the time to just talk with me about these issues yesterday and it was a, a frank and candid discussion. Im grateful for that. I apologize that i have not had time. Ive been working nonstop since the meeting i was in with you. And its not a simple matter to go back and refresh your memory on details, some of which i might not have even been aware. Ill follow up in writing. Id be happy to follow up. Thank you. Id like to turn to us assistance to the palestinians. The Palestinian Authority to this day maintains a martyrs fund that subsidizes and incentivizes acts of violence and terror against the people of israel. Given the ongoing conflict and the possibility that israels enemies may seek to expand the assault on israel. We must impose a higher level of scrutiny on us assistance, both bilateral and through multilateral organizations like the United Nations to ensure that any future us aid does not support this reprehensible policy and that no us dollars support acts of terrorism. If confirmed, mister liu, how will you use your role, including the role you must exert over us policy towards the palestinian leadership and people to ensure that any us assistance including through multilateral institutions like un r a does not directly or indirectly support terrorist activities or violate the taylor force act. Senator, i dont believe that theres anything tolerable about paying people to commit acts of terrorism and murder and paying families of so called martyrs to me is just immoral and i will do everything i can as ambassador to bring that to bear both in our bilateral assistance and in our engagement with International Partners. If confirmed, its something that, that its a very difficult relationship in International Organizations and ive engaged in those conversations before and ive taken tough issues to International Partners before and it would be something that i would look forward to working with you in this committee on to make sure that its center on our attention relatedly. Thank you, mister liu. How will you use your role in conjunction with collaboration with other Us Ambassadors in the region to urge that donors especially within the region both heavily restrict and ensure oversight over Financial Support to the Palestinian Authority and to nominally humanitarian and aid organizations operating in the west bank and gaza. So i have started just reaching out to some of the other ambassadors in the region, some of whom ive known and some of whom i havent. I think it is a responsibility of the chief of mission in israel to work closely with ambassadors in other countries, to work with the state department. And i dont think its an easy one size fits all answer because there are Different Countries with different relationships with different benefits to the United States, you know, involved and theyre not new issues to me. Ive engaged in these conversations from other seats. I think its important and its something that i would be doing for the first time as chief of mission. Thank you, mister liu. I have no further questions. Im over my time and senator shaheen, actually senator van hollen. Thank you. Thank you, madam, chair mr secretary. Welcome. Thank you and your family for taking on this awesome responsibility at this horrible time. Ive known you for a long time. Weve not always agreed on everything, although we usually do. Ive always known you as a person of great integrity. Thank you, senator. As i told you, when we met in my office yesterday, i woke up on october 7th to hear the horrible news of the hamas terrorist attack. And my mind immediately went to kibbutz kfar aza, which was a kutz that i had visited in late june. Its three kilometers from the border with gaza where 50 residents were murdered, including women, children, babies and elderly, killed in their homes, people abducted. So yes, israel not only has a right, but it does have a responsibility to defend itself and to go after hamas and end its operational control in gaza. I think you would also agree. I just want to make sure as you take on this position, you agree that its both in americas interest and israels interest that the war be prosecuted in accordance with International Law and the rules of war. Yes, i do to that end. I was pleased that as were gathered here, there was an announcement in israel where President Biden said, quote, the people of gaza need food, water, medicine and shelter. And the report indicates that we may have some agreement with the Israeli Government to allow convoys to cross the gaza egyptian border. Its going to be very important that that work swiftly and effectively. As i told you yesterday, from reports on the ground, the current rationing of water in gaza is about a liter a day, which is not sufficient to sustain human life. People have already begun drinking farm water, agricultural water. Theres a great fear from all the humanitarian specialists on the ground about the spread of disease, waterborne disease. So its going to be essential in limiting the harm to innocent civilians. 2 Million People in gaza, half of them children that we get this humanitarian quarter opened right away. I also hope you will ask the government of israel to open up more of the pipes. There was an announcement the other day about opening a pipe by the National Security adviser turned out it was one pipe and at least initially only three hours a day. So thats going to be really important. And its not only a moral responsibility for the United States and israel, its also in our interest because the world has embraced israel in the moment of horror, but unnecessary human suffering in gaza will change peoples public perceptions. Now youve been nominated by the president of the United States. So i just want to confirm that you agree with some of the things the commander in chief just said in the last couple of days. Number one, the vast majority of palestinians are not hamas and hamas does not represent the Palestinian People. Do you agree . I do agree with that. I think the vast majority of the Palestinian People are being used as pawns by hamas and as human shields. So, and i agree with you. I ask that one of the first meetings you undertake if youre nominated is to meet with our three star general general fenzel, who is the commander that works with both the israelis and the Palestinian Authority. Will you agree to do that . Well, i dont know general fenzel, but even when i was deputy secretary of state, i met with his predecessor on each of my visits to israel. And as i said earlier, the mission that that office has is critical to creating the possibility of stability in any palestinian. Let me just say mr secretary and i mentioned this to you earlier. A lot of Us Government reporting right now has indicated that while the world is focused on whats happening in gaza, there are extreme settlers on the west bank that as we speak, are seizing more and more palestinian lands in area c that will strengthen hamas in the west bank and undermine the legitimate palestinian voices. So i hope youll look into that right away. Let me also just say, since you opened your testimony with a sort of looking to the next day in some spirit of optimism, i do hope that we can expand the Abraham Accords. I do think we can get back to discussions between normalization of relations between saudi arabia and israel. 20 senators wrote to the president before this horror started and said that that agreement will only bring lasting peace and stability to the middle east, if it addresses the palestinian issues, the legitimate palestinian questions, as President Biden has said, giving them equal measures of justice and dignity. Do you agree . Senator, i believe before this war and since that, in order for there to be an agreement, there would need to be attention paid to the palestinian issues. I think were at a moment now where the, in the midst of a war with a country that is torn apart by grief. Its probably not the right time to start that conversation again, but after this war is over, it has to be part of the conversation. I i raised it, mr secretary because you did in your opening comments. I do think its important to look to the day after to see if we can create any, any hope in this moment of darkness. I have long believed that the path towards a long term stable middle east and a democratic and jewish israel is a two state solution. One has to deal with this issue. If one is going to be on that path. We we agree. Thank you, senator cruz mr secretary. Welcome you and i had a vigorous conversation in my office yesterday. You said at the time, nobody could have imagined what happened in israel with this terror attack. I have to say i disagreed then and i disagree. Now, many of us not only imagined we predicted it, you were a critical player in the Obama Administrations campaign of appeasement with iran. You played a pivotal role in flooding over 100 billion to the Iranian Regime. The Biden Administration has continued that policy, flooding nearly an additional 100 billion to the Iranian Regime. That policy of appeasement sending hundreds of billions of dollars to a theocratic homicidal genocidal maniac who leads chance of death to america and death to israel has proven catastrophic. The death squads in israel from hamas are funded in real and meaningful ways by the billions of dollars. The Obama Administration and now the Biden Administration has flowed directly to iran that has proven disastrous. We also have drones as you know, today, the un arms embargo on iran expires today. Ironically, the day of your hearing, you were pivotal in advocating for Un Resolution 2231, the iran deal, which is why the arms embargo is expiring today on october 7th, hamas used swarms of sophisticated drones in their october 7th attack. Do you believe the world is safer today because of 233 2231 and the expiration of the arms embargo allowing iran now to sell Ballistic Missiles and long range drones. Senator, i think you would have to agree that the history of the Us Engagement on jcpoa has changed substantially since i you think the world is better and safer with the arms embargo expired. But senator, if the us was not. Yes or no are we safer today with no arms embargo . I think its a much more complicated than that because were not part of jcpoa. Therefore, there was no extension of the arms embargo. I would have advocated for an extension of the arms embargo and we might well have. And by the way, the Biden Administration has been in power 2. 5 years, the arms embargo is expiring today and you were pivotal in that happening. Lets shift to another thing because the Biden Administration didnt just send money to iran in massive numbers. It is also sent money to gaza that went to hamas. And at the time, i led a coalition of senators urging the Biden Administration do not send money to gaza because it is controlled by hamas. It will be used by hamas for acts of terrorism. We now know that the Biden Administration reached the following determination. And i quote, due to its overall strength and level of control over gaza, we assess that there is a high risk hamas could potentially derive indirect unintentional benefit from us. Assistance to gaza high risk. As treasury secretary, youre familiar with these determinations under ordinary Anti Terrorism laws, you cant send money where theres a high risk, it will be used for terrorism. But what did the Biden Administration do . It waived our Anti Terrorism law because their political agenda was so important. They were willing to take that high risk was it a mistake to send hundreds of millions of dollars to gaza that in a very real and practical way, funded the death squads and funded the rockets that are being used to murder israelis. Senator, i was not in government at the time these decisions were made. It was a mistake. Im not familiar with the back and forth that youre referring to. But my understanding is the funding that went to gaza was for things like the hospital and, and humanitarian. So was ofac wrong when it concluded theres a high risk that hamas could derive benefits. Senator, i would have to look at the document to you are one of few people that has the expertise to do this. I have high regard for ofac. I just am not familiar with the so is the world safer or less safe because hundreds of millions of dollars were sent to gaza when its controlled by hamas. Senator hamas activities have proven how evil they are and how important it is. Im not answering that question. Let me ask this question, but i will say the secretary of the treasury has repeatedly undermined israel as this attack was ongoing within hours of the attack. Commencing the state department sent out a tweet from the office of palestinian affairs, an office that would report to you if youre confirmed, that said we unequivocally condemn the attack of Hamas Terrorists and the loss of life that is incurred. We urge all sides to refrain from violence and retaliatory attacks. Terror and violence solved nothing. Do you agree with this tweet that was sent by the Biden State Department senator . I would have to read it. Im not familiar with it. Youre not familiar with it. I want to go back to the last point. Hold on a second. Youre not familiar with this tweet. They sent it out at three in the morning while the attacks were unfolding. I blasted it at three in the morning and they deleted it within the hour because it was shameful. They were telling, telling israel do not respond while your citizens are being murdered. And by the way, the president United States has stated clearly the policy of the United States. I agree, i agree with the president. I understand. But at the same time, this administration repeatedly walks back what he says. So heres another tweet sent from the state department, Turkish Foreign minister and i spoke, this is from secretary blinken, spoke further on hama terrorist attack on israel. I encourage turkeys advocacy for a cease fire and the release of all hostages held by hamas immediately. Do you agree with this tweet from the secretary of state calling for a cease fire immediately after this attack began . I think the president and the secretary of state have made clear that israel has a right and a respect. You agree with this tweet from the state department . Senator, i cant respond to tweets that youre reading to me, why are you not familiar with it . Im telling you they havent followed what the administration has said on this, by the way, they deleted this tweet as well. Day after day after day, this administration has systematically undermined israel. And finally, you advocated for Un Resolution 2334, which declared much of israel illegally occupied territory including the jewish quarter in jerusalem and the western wall. Do you believe the jewish quarter and the western wall are illegally occupied territory . Senator, i i do not believe that that it is a legally occupied territory. Why did you support a Un Resolution saying that it is, i think the, the we could have a conversation about that, but its going to take me more than 10 seconds to respond to it all the time. You like allow the witness to respond if you allow the witness to respond. So first, if i can respond, youve said a lot of things that you have not given me a chance to respond to. I sanctioned hamas in 2015, hamas was sanctioned again today. So i dont think it was a fair characterization of either what i did or this administration. Second of all thethe issue of a Un Resolution is it, it was a Un Resolution that all the parties had to agree to that was negotiated to take out the most offensive provisions, whether it was a good or a bad resolution. In the end, the president decided to abstain rather than have a worse resolution come out. You can agree or disagree with that could have vetoed it, but he was trying to prevent a worse resolution, could have vetoed the time has expired. Senator duckworth. Thank you, mr chairman. Thank you for being here. Secretary liu, who walked away from the jcpoa, which administration, it was the last administration. Thats what i thought. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Once again, i just need to pause here and take a moment to say that my heart is hurting ever since october 7th, ive been thinking endlessly of the children, the innocent children, Israeli Palestinian and even illinoian whose lives have been upended or tragically ended during these devastating days. Every night, i go home and i hug my two little girls close, haunted by the suffering of the innocents. They are too young, my girls to understand why im so upset and why im holding them so tightly. But there are countless families who wont get the chance to hug their children close any longer. And my heart breaks for all of them, of those americans presumed to be held hostage by hamas. Many have ties to my home state of illinois, whether themselves being illinoisans or by a Family Member or friend who has reached out to my office, asking for help their families and friends are advocating tirelessly for their release for their access to basic medical care and for information about their loved ones. At the same jewish and muslim communities around the world are feeling deep emotional wounds from the violence. We are sadly already seeing hate crimes spring up in the wake of the war like this past weekends horrific fatal stabbing of an innocent six year old palestinian american Wadea Al Fayoum may in plainfield, illinois. This shocking and tragic murder is a painful reminder that we must confront and reject any islamophobic rhetoric that seeks to conflate the evils of hamas with the Palestinian People or with any with a vast majority of muslim people just as we must confront and reject the anti semitic rhetoric that seeks to draw a false equivalence between the democratically elected government of israel and the terrorist organization of hamas as ambassador. You would play a Critical Role in helping to strike the right tone for these very difficult and complex conversations while demonstrating the United States long term resolve and right commitment to support our israeli allies. I believe that you will serve and represent our interests. Well as a voice for Democratic Values that rejects hate and discrimination on the basis of race, religion or ethnicity and ground us in our shared rights to live in peace and build a Better Future together. But also in israels right to defend herself. Secretary leui i want to invite you to reflect on that work and the role you hope to play if confirmed to be our ambassador. You know, senator, i find acts and beliefs of bias and hatred against people because of who they are or what they are just totally unacceptable. And when its manifested in acts of violence, whether its against a jew or a muslim, its equally horrible. What ive said about the attacks in israel is that almost 500 people were killed because they were jewish. If it had been 1500 muslims who were killed because they were muslims, that would be a problem too. We have to try and humanize these issues and understand that its hamas, thats the enemy. Its not palestinians who are the enemy. Now, hamas hides behind palestinians. It creates terrible, terrible choices in terms of how you defend yourself. But at the core, there has to be Mutual Respect and hopefully more than respect if we can get to a better place. Do you agree that israel has the right to defend herself . Absolutely. Do you agree that the core tenant of one of the core tenants of hamas is to destroy israel . Absolutely. Do you agree that the innocents in gaza deserve to have access to secure humanitarian corridors so that there is access . And im pleased that even this morning progress has been made on that front . Thank you. If confirmed. Can you commit to working to address both the urgent and underlying humanitneeds in gaza, including establishing secure humanitarian corridors, access for key medical workers like the red cross and access to food, water and sanitation, for the people in gaza. I think we must continue to do that. And if confirmed that will be part of my mission and it will have to be done in a way that respects the security of israel and the two do not have to be inconsistent. Thank you. You back, mr chairman shaheen. Thank you. Well, thank you mr chairman and thank you, secretary liu for your willingness to come back in and serve the government particularly at this difficult time. And i know that your nomination occurred before this horrible tragedy in israel and in the middle east. And so its a very different situation than the one you were nominated for. Uh i think the anger and outrage that youve heard reflected the committee is a reflection of how people are feeling worldwide towards whats happening both in terms of the horrific attack in israel by hamas, but also the concern about the innocent palestinians and israelis who have been killed. Um it, i do appreciate what ive seen coming out of israel in terms of the country coming together. And i appreciated both the chairman and Ranking Members um statements which i think reflect the committees concern. Ii i hope that this will not be used as an opportunity to so partisan divides here in the United States and in congress because i think thats the wrong response. What we should be talking about is how we can support israel, how we can address the humanitarian needs of the palestinians, how we can get the hostages back. And i hope thats going to be the focus of the discussion. And as you said, that you will get up every day. Thinking about how we return the hostages to america. The americans who are held, i think is reassuring. And senator, i couldnt agree more that this should be a moment where we try our best to rise above partisanship and talk about whats in the interest of the us, whats in the interest of israel and whats in the interests of the us israel relationship. One of the things about this relationship is that for 75 years, its been a bipartisan effort. I am committed to working with democrats and republicans, people who agree or disagree with me, people who vote for me and people who vote against me. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And, and i know that to be the case based on having worked with you when you were in the Obama Administration. I do want to raise a couple of issues that i think are important for you as if youre confirmed as ambassador and that is senator murphy talked about the maritime border decision that had been made between lebanon and israel. And weve heard a lot of discussion in the last week about the potential for a Northern Front on lebanons border with israel. One of the institutions that i think is helpful in that respect is the Lebanese Armed forces and their ability to help keep the lid on in northern lebanon. But can you talk about what you as ambassador could do to help address that . And, and what would be the impact on israels ability to defend itself in the north if the lf is not able to function. Well, senator, obviously, if confirmed, my remit will be centered in israel and we hopefully will still be able to have diplomats in lebanon advancing our interests there. I would work with them. I think the president s decision to deploy two Aircraft Carrier groups into the mediterranean sends a powerful message that doesnt need a lot of explanation. It is more armed power than almost any other nation in the world could bring to bear. I hope that as a deterrent that is heard and we dont see a multi front war. Well, thank you. I, i certainly share that uh one of the other issues that we havent yet focused on is the the challenge of the impact on the Defense Industrial base in both israel and the United States, given the putins invasion of ukraine. So if confirmed, how will you work with the department of defense, the Israeli Ministry of defense and us Defense Companies to best support the delivery of military assistance to israel . I think that is a hugely important question that will have a whole different set of considerations than it did two weeks ago until the mission of the inquiry into what happened and how israel didnt see this and respond more quickly until that is understood. I dont know the answer. I dont know if its things they need people, they need strategies they need, but it is just not acceptable to have an exposed border like that. And i dont think theres probably anyone in israel who thinks its acceptable, either we have a relationship with israel in the defense area thats unique in the world. You know, weve had a history of phasing out a special provision that allows israel to spend us defense resources domestically. Im not yet in a position to have a firm view and its, ive been briefed in on all of the details, but i think we have to ask questions about, is that phase out the right schedule . Is there something at stake here . And something i mentioned in my testimony, which i just want to underscore israels role internationally as a defense industry, as a technology, industry provider is kind of unique. It is a huge percentage of israels economy, much bigger as a percentage of their economy than it is of ours. And they have a level of resources and quality of materials and technology that other countries want and particularly with regard to trade with china. If you had asked me two weeks ago, what one of my big challenges would be, i would have said it would be working with israel to understand the need not to give china things that we wouldnt give china to gain a military advantage. That is not as easy as just saying, do it. They may well have the view that it is central to the economics of their industry. I dont know right now. I hope were at a point when i am over there if confirmed shortly into my time where you can have those conversations and ask our closest ally in the region to be partners with us in limiting some of the spread of advanced technology. Well thank you at the appropriate time. I i hope that you will focus on that. Thank you, mr chairman. Secretary liu. First of all, thank you for your candor and your patience. During this hearing. I think you have the ability to go through long sessions of diplomacy and youve shown that quite clearly. I just want to make one response. I think first, i want to thank the members of our committee. I thought this hearing has been very helpful and productive and irans capacity, its nuclear capacity, its funding is certainly an issue of grave concern to the National Security interests of the United States and to israel. So i dont object to the questions that have been asked, but i do think its important to clarify. I was the Ranking Member of this committee when the j cpo a was considered working with senator corker, who was the chairman of this committee. And the two of us in a bipartisan way with overwhelming support from our colleagues on the floor of the United States senate developed a review process so that we could have an open review of the jcpoa before it went into effect, it delayed the process for a substantial period of time for congressional input. The transparency of the Obama Administration during that process was unprecedented. We had more briefings and hearings. I thought i was qualified as a Nuclear Physicist listening to the secretary of energy. It was, we had in depth discussions on every aspect of the jcpoa and we had our chance for input. And in fact, i think our input changed the agreement as it was being negotiated over that period of time. Thats how we should work in a bipartisan manner. The review was bipartisan. There are some of us who disagreed with the final product. We thought perhaps it was set up wrong in the beginning to allow Nuclear Enrichment in iran. I voted against the jcpoa, but i must confess that the transparency that this administration exercised was unprecedented. I met with president obama many times and i just want to associate myself with secretary lous comments, that an agreement is an agreement and that we had a responsibility to carry it out. And in fact, we did carry it out. We were in full compliance until President Trump unilaterally decided to withdraw, which i think was a mistake. It not only made the us the violator of the agreement but it allowed iran to get closer to a Nuclear Weapon as they are today with their enrichment policies. Now, were not going to be talking about that during this hearing. I understand that this is a member of the Obama Administration and its fair to question in regards to the jcpoa, but i must tell you, i know our nominee and i thank him again for his Public Service at all times. Hes conducted himself with the the highest degree of integrity. He served president obama well served our nation well, and it was always open with us in congress. Never ever held back information that was properly, shouldnt be properly disclosed to us. And i just want that on the record and, and i thank you again for your, for your testimony. Thank you, mr chairman senator risch. If you want to make any, we will keep the record open for questions for the record until 1 p. M. Tomorrow. And that will give you a couple of hours to get them back to us. We know, i hope you werent planning anything that important over the weekend, but well get, well allow you to take a little bit of time off for prayer on saturday. But then back to work saturday night, if theres no further business, the committee will stand adjourned. Thank you