Transcripts For CSPAN Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg Conversation At Stanford University 20240712

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome provost strom. [applause] good evening. It is my very great pleasure to welcome you to Memorial Church for this years lecture on a Meaningful Life. Honored we are deeply to have as our speaker associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States Ruth Bader Ginsburg. [cheers and applause] this event, as you may know, has a rich history at stanford. Lecture that in a inry rathbun, a professor the 1930s through the 1950s, decided to give on the last day of his class one spring. The lecture was such a success that it turned into an annual tradition at stanford for many years until professor rathbun retired. It was revised in 2008, supported by a generous gift to the office of religious life by the foundation for Global Community which established the henry and Amelia Rathbun fund for exploring what leads to a Meaningful Life. Each year, a rathbun visiting fellow selected to come to stanford to deliver the lecture and spend time with our faculty, students, and staff. In a time ofld and great change in our country, this lecture provides us a welcome moment for selfreflection and moral inquiry. We are so fortunate this year to have Ruth Bader Ginsburg as our rathbun visiting fellow. Her byny of you know another moniker, as the notorious r. B. G. [cheers and applause] that name got its start several blog put in a tumblr together by an admiring law student, and it just took off from there. Today, Justice Ginsburg finds herself not only a member of our nations highest court but a cultural phenomenon as well. Born in brooklyn, Justice Ginsburg received her bachelors degree from Cornell University and her law degree from Columbia Law School. She was a professor of law at Rutgers University from 1963 to 1972 and at Columbia Law School from 1972 to 1980. In 1971, she cofounded the womens rights project of the American Civil Liberties union. And she served as the aclus general counsel from 1973 to 1980. She was appointed to the United States court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit in 1980. President clinton then nominated her as an associate justice to the Supreme Court, and she took her seat on the court in 1993. These biographical facts come nowhere close to adequately describing the person who is with us tonight. There really are not sufficient words to describe the impact she has had on the law and on the advancement of womens rights in america. Daringazing, pioneering, they are all true but they still dont capture it. Justice ginsburg went to law school in an era, the 1950s, when very few women did. She faced enormous challenges as a woman and as a mother in pursuing her career in that era. She then turned her career to the cause of battling discrimination on behalf of women and families everywhere. At Columbia Law School, she became the schools first tenured female professor. At the womens rights project, she argued six cases before the Supreme Court. She played an absolutely central role in establishing contemporary law on equal protection as it relates to equality between the sexes. Many, in fact, have called her the Thurgood Marshall of womens rights. She was the second woman to join the United States Supreme Court, serving at the time with Justice Sandra day oconnor who was also then a rathbun visiting fellow with us. Justice ginsburg will be in conversation with dean shaw, professor of religious studies at stanford. Taughtor shaw previously at oxford for 16 years. And just before coming to was thed, she dean of Grace Cathedral in san francisco. We look forward to exciting and engaging conversation. Please join me in welcoming to stanford justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. [cheers and applause] thank you,sburg thank you. Please be seated. Thank you very much, but please be seated. Anhought it might be appropriate beginning for me to tell you a little bit about my life. And what i am going to say to you comes from a book called my own words. All in my ownace words. Did you always want to be a or a Supreme Court justice . School children who visit me at the court, as they do at least weekly, ask that question more than any other. It is a sign of huge progress that today the aspiration for a girl is not at all outlandish. Contrast the ancient days in 1956 when i entered law school, women were then less than 3 of the lawyers in the United States. And only one woman had ever served on a federal appellate court. She was florence allen, appointed by frank and Delano Roosevelt to the u. S. Court of circuit, 1934. By the time i got a lot school, she was retired and there were none. Today, about half the nations law students and more than 1 3 of our federal judges are women, including three of the nine seated on the Supreme Court bench. Women hold more than 30 of u. S. Law school dean ships and served as general counsel to 24 of fortune 500 companies. My long life, i have seen great changes. How fortunate i was to be alive and a lawyer when, for the first time in u. S. History, it became successfullyrge before legislatures and courts the equal citizenship stature of men and women. There is a page out of place, so bear with me a moment. Should be not too far from here. Skipped, we will go on to the next one. Where i speak about teachers who influenced or encouraged me in my growing up years. At Cornell University, the european literature professor changed the way i read and write. Pictures, ipaint learned from him. Choosing the right word in the right order, he illustrated, could make an enormous difference in conveying an image or idea. From constitutional law professor cushman and another professor, i learned of our nations enduring values and how was [indiscernible] during the red scare of the 1950s. Lawyers protect the right to speak and write without fear of reprisal by government authorities. Professor Benjamin Kaplan was my first and favorite teacher in law school. He used the socratic method in his procedures class, always to stimulate, never to wound, he was the model i tried to follow in my own law teaching years from 1963 until 1980. At Columbia Law School, the professor of constitutional law and federal courts, who later served on the stanford law faculty for many years, he was determined to place me in a federal Court Clerkship despite what was then viewed as a grave impediment. On graduation, i was the mother of a fouryearold child. After heroic efforts, he succeeded in that mission. Caseser years, litigating in or headed to the Supreme Court, i turned to him for aid in dealing with sticky legal issues, both substantive and procedural, and he never failed to help me find the right path. Questionften asked when i speak in public, do you have some good advice you might share with us . Yes, i do. [laughter] comes from my savvy motherinlaw. Advice she gave to me on my wedding day. In every good marriage, she tonseled, it helps sometimes be a little deaf. [laughter] i have followed that advice assiduously. Not only at home through 56 years of marriage and partnership, i have employed it as well in every workplace, including the Supreme Court of the United States. [laughter] when a thoughtless or unkind out. Is spoken, best tune reacting in anger or annoyance will not advance ones ability to persuade. Advice from my fatherinlaw has also served me well. He gave it to me during my gap years of 1954 to 1956 when my husband was fulfilling his obligation to the army as an artillery officer at fort sill, oklahoma. By the end of 1954, my pregnancy was confirmed. We looked forward to becoming three in july of 1955. But i worried about starting law school the next year with an infant to care for. Fathers advice . Ruth, if you dont want to start law school, you have a good reason to resist the undertaking. No one will think the less of you if you make that choice. But if you really want to study law, you will stop worrying and you will find a way to manage a child and school. So, marty and i did by engaging a nanny on the school days from 8 00 to 4 00. Many times after when the road was rocky, i thought back to spent no timem, fretting, and found a way to do what i thought was important to get done. Term notbalance was a yet cleaned coined in the years my children were young, but it is aptly descriptive of the Time Distribution i experienced. My success in law school, i have no doubt, was due in large measure to baby jane, my daughter. I attended classes and study diligently until 4 00 in the afternoon. Timeext hours were janes spent at the park playing silly games or singing funny songs, reading picture books, bathing, and feeding her. After janes bedtime, i returned to the law books with renewed will. Each part of my life guided respite from the other provided respite from the other and gave me a sense of proportion that classmates trained only on the law lacked. I have had more than a little bit of luck in life, but nothing equals in magnitude my marriage to martin ginsburg. I do not have words adequate to describe my supersmart, exuberant, ever loving spouse. [shuffling papers] early on in our marriage, it became clear to him that cooking was not my strong suit. [laughter] appreciationsting of our foodloving children, we became four in 1965 when son james was born, marty made the kitchen his domain and became onf supreme in our home, loan to friends and even at the court. Marty coached me through the birth of our son. He was the first reader and critic of articles, speeches, and briefs i drafted. And he was at my side constantly in and out of the hospital during two long bouts with cancer. And i betrayed no secret in reporting that without him, i would not have gained a seat on the u. S. Supreme court. Then associate white House Counsel ron klain set of my 1995 nomination, i would say definitely for the record, though Ruth Ginsburg should have been picked for the Supreme Court anyway, she would not have been picked if her husband had not done everything he did to make it happen. Gainingrything included the unqualified support of my home state senator, Daniel Patrick moynihan, and enlisting the aid of many members of the barl academy and practicing. I have several times said the office i hold, now nearing 24 years, is the best and most consuming job a lawyer anywhere could have. I have several time said that the office i hold, now nearing 24 years, is the best and both most consuming job a lawyer anywhere could have. The courts main job is to repair fractures in federal law, to step in when other courts have disagreed on what the relevant federal law requires. Because the court grants review dominantly when other has provided. The questions we take up are rarely easy. They seldom have indubitably right answers. But by being together at our conferences, and with more depth and precision through the circulation of an responses to draft opinions, we ultimately agree far more often than we divide sharply. Last term, 2015 to 2016, we were unanimous on the bottomline judgment in 25 of the 67 cases after the full briefing and argument. In contrast we divided 53 or 43. Justice scalias death reduced the number of justices. And we divided sharply only eight times. When the justices believe that they got it wrong she is free to , say so in dissent. I take advantage of that prerogative when i think its important, as do my colleagues. Despite our strong disagreements on issues, for example the control of Political Campaign spending, access to the ballot, affirmative action, access to abortion, samesex marriage, we genuinely respect each other and even enjoy each others company, collegiality is key to the success of our mission. We cannot do the job the constitution assigns to us if we did not use one of Justice Scalia is favorite expressions Justice Scalias favorite expressions, get over it. All of us revere the constitution and the court, we aim to leave the court in as good of shape as it wasnt we as it was when we joined it. Earlier i spoke of great changes i have seen in womens occupations. But one must acknowledge the scale the still bleak part of the picture. Most people in poverty in the United States and the world over are women and children. Womens earnings here and abroad trail the earnings of men with comparable education and experience. Our workplaces do not adequately accommodate the demands of childbearing and child rearing, and we have yet to devise effectively to ward off Sexual Harassment at work and Domestic Violence in our homes. But i am optimistic that the Movement Towards enlisting the talents of all who compose we the people will continue, as expressed by my colleague, the first woman to serve on the u. S. Supreme court, Justice Sandra day oconnor, for both men and women the first step in getting power is to become visible to others. And then to put on an impressive show. As women achieve power, the barriers fall. As societies see what women can do, as women can see what women can do, there will be more women out there doing things and we will all be better off for it. To that expectation i can only say amen. [applause] dean shaw Justice Ginsburg, its a huge honor to have you with us. Thank you for accepting my invitation to be our sitting fellow. As you know, the program is designed to foster thinking about what it means to lead a Meaningful Life. He spoke about that already. Could you encapsulate what it means to lead a Meaningful Life for you . Justice ginsburg to put simply, it means doing something outside of yourself. I tell the law students if you are going to be a lawyer, and just practice your profession, you have a skill, see you are very much like a plumber so you are like a plumber. If you want to be a true professional, you will do something outside of yourself. Something to repair tears in your community. Something to make life a little better for people less fortunate than you. Thats what i think Meaningful Life is, one lives not just for oneself, but for ones community. Dean shaw thats wonderful. Do you think thats the same as a purposeful life . Justice ginsburg yes, the purpose is what you aim for. Dean shaw how has family played a part in your own life and your own meaning in your life . Justice ginsburg it plays a very large part. Its one of the things that drew Justice Scalia and me together. We care a lot about families. I saw a big change in life in the United States between the birth of my daughter in 1955, and my son in 1965 when my daughter jane started school, i was one of a very few working moms. 10 years later there had been an enormous change. It was not at all unusual to have 200 families by the middle 60s that made me realize it would be possible for the first time in history to move the law in the direction of what i call equal citizenship stature for men and women and what i saw as equal citizenship stature for men and women. Dean shaw talk about your experience that led you to that work. Justice ginsburg in the days that i went to law school, when i was entering class at harvard, there were 500 students. Only nine were women. There were no antidiscrimination laws. So employers were totally upfront in saying we dont want any lady lawyers here. Or we once hired a woman, she was dreadful. And how many men have you hired that did not live up to your expectations . [laughter] anyways, things we did not complain about. Harvard law school had nine women, there were two teaching buildings at that time. Only one of them had a womens bathroom. So if you are in class, but if youre taking a three or four hour exam, you had to make a mad to the building. But we never complained. It was just the way things were. By the late 60s, the feminist movement had revived in the United States, in part as a result of the civil rights movement, but also as part of a worldwide movement, the u. N. Had declared in connection with International Womens year, things were changing all over. It became possible to break down what is referred to as the separate spheres mentality, that is the womans place was with the family, taking care of the home, and the mans place was outside. He was the representative of the family outside. And many of our laws were designed to fit that model of the stayathome woman and the work the day man. So in the decade of the 70s, almost all of the laws of that kind were like that. Laws of that kind were gone. Dean shaw would you like to talk about one or two cases that are important . Justice ginsburg the first was the turning point case. If you go back up until 1971 the Supreme Court never saw a genderbased classification that it did not think was ok. So if we take the years of the liberal warren court, the hoyt case. She was an abused, battered woman. Her abusive and philandering husband had one day humiliated her to the breaking point, she saw her young sons baseball bat in the corner, lifted it up and with all of her might she hit him over the head and he fell on the stone floor. End of their altercation, beginning of the murder prosecution. In those days, in new borough county, they did not put women on juries. Gwendolyn hoyt thought that a thought there was something wrong with that, not that there was a jury that would not acquit they would not understand her state of mind. Not that they would have acquitted her, that her rage at that moment and they maybe would convict her of the lesser crime of manslaughter instead of murder. When the case came to the Supreme Court challenging the absence of women on the jury roles, the courts attitude was Gwendolyn Hoyt women have the best of both worlds. We dont call them for jury duty, but if they come into the Clerks Office and sign up we will put them there. But how many men do you think would signup if they had the choice . So the Supreme Court did not get it. There wasgainst that, a woman who owned a cabin and a bartender. R was the state of michigan, perhaps with the encouragement of the bartenders league passed a law that said a woman could not tend bar unless she was the wife or daughter of the bar owner. The Supreme Court treated that case as part of backing away from attempting to put down economic and social legislation. That is how the case was taught when i went to law school. Dayss a retreat from the of the nine old men who gave president franklin Delano Roosevelt such a hard time, he thought about packing the court. So that is what the president was. Thepresident was precedent was. Then sally reed came along. Her husband and her separated and divorced. Sally was given custody. When the boy reached his teens, the father came to the family court and said this boy needs to be prepared for a mans world, so i should be the custodian. Sally was distressed. Became sorely pressed, took out one of his fathers miniguns and committed suicide. Sally wanted to be appointed administrator of his estate, not for any monetary reasons, there was barely anything there, but for sentimental reasons. Her exhusband applied a couple of weeks later. The Probate Court judge told , sally was from boise, idaho. The law of the state of idaho, from idaho had copied california but california had already changed its law, it read as between persons equally entitled to administer a decedents estate, males must be. Eferred to females there was a reason for that in the days before the property rights, a woman could not contract in her own name, she would be sued. If you had a choice between the able man and the disabled woman, naturally it made sense to choose the man. Sally reed thought that was wrong. She was an everyday woman who made her living by caring for elderly or infirm people in her house. She thought it was wrong and that we had a legal system that could set it right. On her own dime, she took that case to three levels of the and it became the turning point in the Supreme Court. After that, there were a succession of cases, some wrought by women, some by men. So if i could take my second for myhich is a rival favorite, is stephen wiesenthal. His wife was a math teacher in high school, had a healthy the doctor came out thatll stephen wiesenthal he had delivered a healthy baby boy, that his wife had died of an embolism. He was distressed, he vowed that he would not work fulltime until his child was in school fulltime, and he figured out that between parttime earnings and Social Security benefits, he could just about make it. He went to the Social Security office for what he thought were child and care if its. And he was told we are sorry, mr. Wiesenthal, these are mothers benefits. This are wise and felled it was a unanimous judgment, but the court divided three ways. The majority thought, of course this is discrimination against the woman as wage earner. She pays the same Social Security taxes as a male wage earner, but they do not net for her family the same protection. A few thought it was discrimination against the mail as parent because he would have no choice but to work fulltime, he would not have the choice of taking care of his child personally. And then a man who later became my chief, he was then justice he said this is totally arbitrary, why should the baby have a care of the sole surviving parent if the parent is female but not if the parent was male. In that case, it was a perfect illustration of what was wrong with the separate spheres of mentality. The women working outside the home, did not get equal pay. The man did not have the choice to be a caring parent. And the baby would not have the benefit of the love and care of his father. All of these cases, none of them were test cases in the sense that the American Civil Liberties union, with whom i was affiliated, went out to find plaintiffs. They were just everyday people. Who thought something wrong had been done and who believed we had a legal system that would respond to that wrong. Do you think has to be done now . i describedurg the 70s, in those years, both legislatures and courts read the almost all thef genderbased classifications. When the overt sex lines were eliminated was , people who did not think of themselves as prejudice in any way, and my classic example for that is the symphony orchestra. Growing up, i never saw a woman in a symphony orchestra. Someone came up with the bright idea, lets drop a curtain between the people who are auditioning and the judges. It worked like magic. [laughter] almost overnight women were making their way into symphony orchestras. I wish we could duplicate the drop curtain in every area. It isnt that easy. Illustration i give is the title vii case from the 70s against at t for not promoting women to jobs in middle management. Did well who applied on all the standard measures and , which to the last step was called the total person test. Was an interviewer interviewing the candidate for promotion. Women dropped out disproportionately. They flunked the total person test. Why . Because the interviewer who was almost always a white male was with someone unfamiliar, a member of a minority race, a woman, did not. Eally feel at ease but confronted with someone who looked just like him, that was in his comfort zone. That kind ofast unconscious bias remains even today. A difficulty. Dean shaw let me change subject you mentioned symphonies. You love opera, famously love opera. I think you are very keen on the visual arts. I know you have some favorite artists. How nava cough was influential on your reading and writing. Can you talk about the place of arts and humanities in a Meaningful Life . Why are they important to you . Justice ginsburg they are essential. Passion can i tell them about an opera written by a law student . Scalia ginsberg. [laughter] talent very talented musician that had been a music major at harvard and had an ma from yale and decided in his field, it would be helpful to know a little bit about the law. So here he enrolled in law school and is taking constitutional laws and reading these dueling opinions, ginsberg and scalia, ginsberg for the majority, scalia in dissent, scalia for the majority, ginsberg and dissent, and he decides this could make a very funny comic opera. [laughter] rage aria, with a scalia sings the justices are blind, how can they possibly spout this . The constitution says absolutely nothing about this. And then icing in return that he is searching for bright Line Solutions for problems that thet have easy answers but great thing about our constitution is that, like our society, it can evolve. Roughly based on the magic flute. [laughter] Justice Scalia is locked in a dark room where hes being punished for excessive dissenting. [laughter] i enter through a Glass Ceiling to help him get out. [laughter] the figure that locks him up is littlemended torre, a similarity to don giovanni he says why would you want to help him, hes your enemy. I say no, he is my dear friend. Then we sing a duet [laughter] areoes we are different, we one. There are different approaches to reading a legal text, but one in our reading of the constitution and one in the institution we serve. Opera is my passion, but i also love theater. The district of columbia is blessed with the district of columbia is blessed with a number of fine museums, most recently the africanamerican museum. In the years 13 years, the National Gallery was right across the street, so i could pick my room instead of lunch palace. I was in my own there were never the crowds there as there are at the metropolitan museum in new york. Dean shaw in england, there is a bbc Radio Program called Desert Island discs in which you get to choose eight pieces of music to take to a Desert Island. We dont have time for eight, but perhaps you could choose one you cannot live without a viewer on a Desert Island. Justice ginsburg i have to pick two. [laughter] are recordings of mozarts andmarriage of figaro don giovanni. Dean shaw good choice. You talk about the opera you and Justice Scalia, which is part of the importance you give to collegiality. You talk a lot about the ways in which you and your colleagues in the court are very collegial to each other, you shake hands in the morning, you eat meals together. How do you think we can expand that kind of collegiality to a Public Discourse . How can we disagree well . Justice ginsburg when i was growing up, the first ranch was very different than it is today. , think back to 1993 when president clinton nominated me with a good job. Been counsel to the American Civil Liberties union for several years. Three in my 96 to favor. My biggest supporter on the Judiciary Committee was not the then chair, senator biden, although he was certainly in my favor, but it was orrin hatch. He wouldnt touch me with a 10 foot pole. [laughter] friends, but if it came to a vote on me, id dont think he would be the supporter that he was in 1993. And it was similar for Stephen Breyer when he was nominated the next year. It was well into the 90s, a vote in his favor. It hasnt been that way for the four most recent numbers of the court. And it has been on both sides of the aisle. There were a way that i could wave a magic wand and put it back when people were and theul of each other congress was working for the good of the country and not just along party lines. Someday, there will be great people, great in elected representatives who will say enough of this nonsense, lets be the kind of legislature the United States should have. I hope that day will come while im still alive. [applause] dean shaw your husband, marty, was a great cook. Eating together is one way we can have collegiality and talk talk well across differences. Do you have a memorable meal you would like to tell us about . Justice ginsburg i will describe one meal that was a great challenge for marty. Scalias and my family celebrated new years eve together. Usually, nino, who was a great hunter, he would kill bambi and we would have venison. [applause] bash [laughter] this particular year, he killed a wild bore. Finding a recipe that would be palatable, that was a real challenge for marty, but it was good. Dean shaw but he did it . Justice ginsburg gothas ginsburg andy has got me on the other side. This is the name of a book by debi leiby, who is a lawyer but decided, all things considered, she would rather write childrens books. The publishers like her book so much that they made these tote bags. Also because of the book, the notorious rbg, you to children, and not just to children, you are not just a public figure, you are an amazing public figure to every generation. How is that . You know what was copied, the you know what j was copied, the glory of rbg, it is the notorious b. I. G. , the famous rapper. When i said this was created, perfectly understandable, we have something in common. You have something in common with the notorious b. I. G. . Of course. We were both born and bred in brooklyn, new york. [applause] starting that i think is a good example of how young people should react to things they dont like. This was a secondyear student at nyu law school, and when the Supreme Court decided the Shelby County case, this was a case that declared a key part of the Voting Rights act of 1965 unconstitutional, she was angry. And then she decided anger is a useless emotion. It does not advance your cause. She woulde decided start this tumblr, and it began with my dissenting opinion in the Shelby County case. And then it took off into the Wild Blue Yonder from there. Dean shaw you are a role model for many, many people. Who have your role models been . Justice ginsburg growing up, there and not too many, because women were hardly there. I had one real and one fictitious. The real one was Amelia Earhart , and the fictitious was nancy one drew. Later in life, i had the good the first woman to serve on a district court. By the time i got to the d. C. Circuit, she was in her 90s, and i would lunch with her whenever i could to hear her stories. She had been counseled to the national womans party, she had gone to law school at night, she participated in the suffragist parade, and she picketed the white house, but she would never say a word. She would hold up her sign, votes for women, and would not speak if she was hassled by the ,police because she did not want police, because she did not want to risk her chances for admission to the bar. When the chief justice decided the Supreme Court should not be held inside the capital, as it was until 1935, but it should have its own building, the site on which the Supreme Court now stands was occupied, a good part of it, by the headquarters of the National Womens party. The government condemned the property, in our view, this is just a ramshackle old building, it is not worth anything. Eminentialty was domain, and she called as a witness of the older inhabitants of d. C. , who testified that not only was it that site the temporary capital when the capital burned during the war of 1812, it was also a prison for notorious confederates spies. She produced a photograph of a most notorious confederate spy who happened to be a woman. They gave the largest condemnation award that the u. S. Government up until that time had ever taken. She was a woman from mississippi. So she spoke with a soft, southern accent. She wore a lace collar and cuffs, but she was a woman of real steel. You think what it was like for me, it was a piece of cake compared to what it was like for those women. Dean shaw and mentors . Justice ginsburg mentors . Well, no women were teaching in law school when i went to law school. No women were teaching in the arts college in cornell. Mention my theatern m teacher at harvard, and i was captivated by the way the class was conducted. There was a woman i met much later. She was a southern graduate and her name was shirley. She was a judge on the u. S. Court of appeals, ninth circuit, the second in history. She was appointed by president johnson, and then president carter made her the first ever secretary of the department of education. She started inside that department and did an excellent job. It was more than rumored that if carter had a vacancy on the Supreme Court, she would fill it. She was such a great lady, when it turned out that carter would not have a Supreme Court seeking to fill. He did have a reception in her, and he invited all the women he had appointed, over 25 to District Courts and 11 to courts of appeals, and he said at that reception that he hoped he would be remembered in history for changing the complexion of the federal judiciary. He did and no president ever went back to the way it once was. Surely, when i got to know her was what you would call a role model and a mentor. Dean shaw you have been good at saying how important that is to to do that for women, throughout your career . Justice ginsburg yes. Dean shaw thank you for that. I think there are lots of students who would like to ask questions. I am going to invite you to come to the central microphone i. Please state your name and what class you are in. Sophomore, graduate student. Please ask only one question. Express the question as briefly as you can, and however passionate you are, resist the urge to make a statement as well. [laughter] that way more of your classmates can ask questions. May i also say that we are all delighted that Justice Ginsburg is here, and we will take that as a given. You dont need to preface every question with how delighted you are. I think she knows. [laughter] thank you for that. Justice ginsburg has asked me to remind you that she cannot answer questions on certain topics as follows. She cannot answer any question about any issue pending before the court or likely to come before the court, which would include the legality of recent executive orders. [laughter] she is just not allowed to talk about it, ok . [laughter] nor can she make any comment on the current nominee to the Supreme Court. So if you could follow those rules, that would be great, because then she wont have to say no to you. First questions, are they ready . You just have to put your hand up and come to the center. I think someone is going to help. In the meantime, i think someone is going to help fix Justice Ginsburgs microphone a little bit. I have many questions, so if the students dont have any questions, i can keep going. Alice hi, my name is alice. I am a graduate student here, not in the law school. I wanted to ask you, what would you recommend right now for the young people who are around here to get involved in those issues that are floating right now or more general issues for womens rights that are around. Justice ginsburg we have a diversity of Public Interest groups in the United States. If i would take my own example, so i was a flaming feminist, and the question was how could i make a difference . I decided i would affiliate with the American Civil Liberties union, because it was the premier Civil Liberties defender in the United States. It had come up until then, concerned that with arson minute amendmenth first questions, free speech, press, freedom of religion. But i thought it was appropriate to get into the business of equality, both racial and gender. It is hard to do anything alone, but if you get together with likeminded people, join organizations, if you feel is the environment, there are any number of organizations you can affiliate with. Jorge hello. My name is jorge quinto, and i am a masters student in computer science. When, 100 years from now, people are talking about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, what you want them to remember . Justice ginsburg that i was a judge. [laughter] who worked as hard as she could to the best of her ability to do the job right. [applause] paula hello. My name is paula and i am a freshman. I was wondering, you spoke about the importance of deafness and how would you balance that out with things that seem wrong to you. Istice ginsburg how did balance paula your ability to adapt to certain things. Dean shaw she is asking, you give the advice is that your motherinlaw had a given you, which is choose to be deaf sometimes. How do you balance that when when you need to speak out . Justice ginsburg oh, being deaf to what other people say, not to what i say. [laughter] the one thing you dont do is react in anger or annoyance. A sense of humor helps enormously. So, for example, i was arguing a case before a threejudge federal court in trenton, new jersey. It was a gender discrimination case, and one of the judges asked me a question, he said, well, i thought women have an equal chance today, even in a military they do, dont they . So i answered, your honor, the air force does not get flight give Flight Training to women. He responded, oh, my dear, dont tell me that. Women have been in the air forever. My own wife and daughter. So you dont say, you sexist pig. You say, yes, your honor, and i know many men who dont have their feet planted firmly on the ground. That erases that argument. [laughter] jordan hi. I am jordan. I am a freshman. I was wondering how you define your relationship with other female justices on the court and how female friendships have propped you up throughout your life. Justice ginsburg Sandra Day Oconnor was the closest to my i did have a big sister, but she died very young. To being aas close big sister to me as one could wish for. When i was a new justice, she did not try to douse me with lots of information. She just told me what i did to needed to know to get by those first few weeks. And she was important to me. In 1999, i had Colorectal Cancer. Sandra had Breast Cancer and was on the bench nine days after her massive surgery. She advised me, first, youre going to get so much mail and so many wellwishers. Dont try to answer any of it. Just concentrate on getting well. I thought that i had to show up on the first monday in october, i had two weeks between my surgery and when the court began. And then sandra said, so you are having chemotherapy. Be sure to schedule it for friday, so that you can get over it during the weekend. She also had excellent report with the chief. In fact, it was rumored not only did they go to Stanford University at the same time, but that he had once dated her. [laughter] and now my my female colleagues, it just was grand to have them there. Justice sotomayor and justic kagan are active in the colloquy that goes on. During the years Justice Scalia and Justice Sotomayor overlapped, they were in competition over the justice who would ask of the most questions. Scalia narrowed her out by just by a bit, but nowadays, she wins hands down. [laughter] priya hello. My name is priya, and i am a freshman. I was wondering if any of the ways in you approached adversity in your professional career helped you in combating any challenges you faced as a mother and in your courageous battle with cancer . Its never torg have a defeatist attitude. I told the story earlier this afternoon about my motto, when i had pancreatic cancer, was the mezo soprano. She said, i will live. Not that i hope to live. That was my attitude. I was going to beat this. One of the things i did after the Colorectal Cancer bout, i did a few Public Interest announcements, because i was trying to encourage women to get colonoscopies. Women think of Breast Cancer and they think of ovarian cancer, but they dont realize what a killer of women Colorectal Cancer can be. The attitude is, i am going to surmount this, whatever it is. The same thing when my husband had cancer at a very young age. We never talked about the possibility of giving up. We just took each day at a time and then did the best we could. [applause] aaliyah. My name is i am a junior. I was raised on a small Tribal Community in new mexico called Santo Domingo pueblo. Justice Sonia Sotomayor visited us when i was a child. It was great to see a woman of color speak to my community. My question is, what type of people do you speak to, and what type of people do you aim to inspire . Justice ginsburg what type of people do i speak to . I speak to students from the second grade to the postgraduate level. We are often visited by school groups. I speak to about half a dozen law schools every year. Just before i came to stanford, i was visiting the Virginia Military law institute, which has done a great job in integrating women. And washington and lee, its neighbor school. Im a sophomore. My question for you is, i find myself in arguments a lot and im curious to know how you see best to construct a sound argument that is purposeful in persuading people from the other side to kind of get on board with you . [laughter] Justice Ginsburg we are trying to persuade each other all the time. It begins when we are considering what request to review, to grant. Then in oral argument, questions are asked, not just to elicit a response from a lawyer but to elicit a colleagues thinking. Then we have our conference, where we go around the table and say how we think the case should come out. And then it continues. Sometimes if you cant cant be , your writinglly may be persuasive. I was once assigned a defensive dissent by my senior colleague john paul stevens, it was a dissent for two. And at the time that the decision came down, 63, the two had swelled to six. Every time im in dissent, im hoping there will be a repeal. [laughs] it hasnt happened yet, but hope springs eternal. [laughter] julia my name is julia. I am a graduate student. Has there ever been a time when , since you have been on the Supreme Court, when you took a side that was opposite your personal morals, because you thought the constitution was on the other side . Justice ginsburg if i were queen, there would be no Death Penalty. But i take part, i dont do what Justice Brennan and marshall do , in saying the Death Penalty in all circumstances is a violation of the eighth amendment banning cruel and unusual punishment. Instead, i take part in those arguments and do the best i can to move it along in the direction in which it seems to be going. I think i mentioned earlier, that last year, across the country, there were only 20 executions, compared to 98 10 years ago. And there were only five states that held executions, and within those five states, only particular counties. Hello, i am a junior from nigeria, and i am studying chemical engineering. And my question is, what role do you see the court playing . Like, you mentioned you wanted to see a reversal of the we currently have in society now. Could the Supreme Court play a more vocal role in speaking for the public rather than the traditional role they have held in society . Justice ginsburg the Supreme Court, unlike the other branches of government is a totally , reactive institution. One fine court of appeals judge said federal judges dont make the conflagrations, they do what they can to put them out. So we never can we do not have an agenda. This year, we are going to take care of samesex marriage or voter i. D. s. We respond to petitions that come up in cases that began at least two levels before. So the first thing i will read to inform myself is what other judges said about the case. What the trial courts have said, the court of appeals. We dont have any agenda of our own. We take cases, when as i said in my opening remarks when other courts divide on where the law of the United States. That is what we see as our principal mission. To keep the law of the United States moral order uniform. I am a firstyear law school student. This is kind of a constitutional law question, but i was wondering do you, to any extent, believe the presence of Law Enforcement officials at a peaceful protest or rally depends on peoples First Amendment right . Justice ginsburg do i think the presence of Law Enforcement officers at protests if they are welltrained, if they know people have the right to speak their minds, they are there to make sure there is no violence, so i think properlytrained police are tremendously important. I think in the recent protests in washington, d. C. , we saw that working very well. The police were respectful of the people who had come to protest. Jonathan hi. I am jonathan. I am a freshman. You and Justice Scalia were obviously very good friends. Almost friendly. So what would you say are the biggest lessons that you guys taught each other . Justice ginsburg we both thought it was important not only to get the right results but to write in such a way that at least other judges and lawyers and hopefully more than that would understand. I would sometimes criticize an opinion of his in draft and say this is so over the top. You are not going to be persuasive. I couldnt always persuade him to tone it down. [laughter] and he would correct my grammatical errors. Brittany hello. My name is brittany. Obviously you have been a part of and witness to many advancements for women. What do you think is the biggest threat facing women or gender equity today . Justice ginsburg i mentioned the problem of unconscious bias. It is not so easy to overcome. Worklife balance is another. We dont have, in the world of employment, nearly the flexibility that we should have. I had envisioned that in the days, in this electronic age , where, for example you have , the entire law library at your fingertips, that it would be much easier for employers to accommodate. But it will take women and men who care about this to make the change in the lawfirms mentality. I know it is possible, because i was married to a man who was a partner in a very large law firm. Everyone in the Tax Department which he headed, everyone was , gone by 7 00, because that was the time to be home for dinner. In other departments, the culture was you had dinner at the firm, you come back and work. It can be done and i think that law firms will be much healthier places and to do as well financially if they accommodate their employees and make it possible to have a balanced life. Jesse my name is jesse, and im a junior here. I was wondering as it applies to , both individualized and the practices of justice, do you believe in fate, or do you believe we are masters of our own fate . Justice ginsburg both. [laughter] i worked hard to do the best i can, but a little bit of luck , a little bit of divine grace can certainly help. I am a phd student in chinese literature. In silicon valley, people are very optimistic about the potentials of artificial intelligence. Some speculate that with increasing automation, there will be less and less of jobs , and they suggest the idea of universal basic income. As a justice, what do you think of that idea . Thank you. I think it isrg a grave concern. I think we have to do a much better job than we do now to educate students into what they can do with their lives, to have the skills to be part of this electronic age. Dustin hello. My name is dustin. Im a senior. Recently with all the changes happening, a lot of people have been expressing encouragement that you eat more kale, so to speak. [laughter] that you can continue doing the Public Service work that you are doing for as long as possible. Two that tune, who do you want to eat more kale in washington . [laughter] Justice Ginsburg justice kennedy. [applause] there are three of us on the Current Court who are well beyond what the french call a certain age. And then ther, justicegenarians, kennedy and me. A very important part of my life is my personal trainer, who has been with me since 1999 and now trains Justice Elena kagan and , most recently justice breyer. ,cole my name is cole. I am majoring in human biology. I am a sophomore. You talked much today about your friendship with Justice Scalia. Justice ginsburg scalia. Cole do you have a favorite dispute with him that you remember especially fondly . Justice ginsburg do i have a favorite . Cole dispute. Justice ginsburg [laughs] his dissenting opinion in the Virginia Military Institute Case is quite over the top. We were exchanging drafts, oh, i should tell you, this is a good example of our relationship. I circulated the opinion for the court. I am about to go off to my circuit judicial conference when scalia comes into my chambers and throws down his sheath of papers and says, ruth, this is the penultimate draft of my dissent in this case. It is not ready to circulate to the court, but i wanted to give you as much time as i can to respond. So i took it on the plane. It absolutely ruined my weekend. [laughter] but i appreciated the extra time i had. I am quoting the university of virginia case. It wasnt until 1970 that the university of virginia at charlottesville began to admit women. There was a case in the district ii court, and i referred to the university of virginia at shaws charlottesville. A footnote comes back, there is no university of virginia at charlottesville, theres only the university of virginia. [laughter] then i put the university of virginia at charlottesville in quotations. Im quoting from a very fine district judge in the Eastern District of virginia. It made no difference. He still kept it. [laughter] dean shaw im going to interrupt. I think we have time for one more question. What an honor. Dean shaw it had better be good. [laughter] Justice Ginsburg, im a sophomore studying computer science. Today, you remarked that the great thing about the constitution is it can evolve with a society. At the same time i think there , are core values of this nation that must be remembered and protected, especially these days. So my question is which beliefs and values of the society do you believe must be changed, which ones must remain, and how do you distinguish one from the other . [applause] Justice Ginsburg well, some things i would like to change, one is the electoral college. [cheers and applause] but that would require a constitutional amendment, which is amending our constitution is powerfully hard to do, as i know from the struggle of the equal rights amendment, which fell three states shy. What do i think enduring . Congress shall pass no law restricting freedom of speech or the press. That right to speak your mind and not worry about big brother government coming down on you and telling you the right way to think, speak, and write. That is tremendously important. I got to see how important it was when i was going to college in the heyday of senator mccarthy. When our country was straying from its most basic values. But there were people, many of them lawyers, who helped bring us back to the way it should be, equality, nor shall any state to deny to any person the equal protection of the laws. An idea that was included in the constitution in 1868 with the 14th amendment. It is not in the original constitution. I think most of you know why, although our declaration of independence says, all men are created equal. They could not put equality in the original constitution or in the bill of rights because of the stain of slavery. So now i think the notion i explain it in terms of the opening words of the constitution, we people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. We started with we the people in 1787. A rather small class, they are white, they are male, and they own property. Look at we the people today. Look at all the people. Native americans were not part of we the people, women were not part of the political constituency until the 19th amendment in was adopted, so 1920 that the idea that we the people is an embracive term that covers everyone who dwells in this fair land. That is a major theme of our constitution today. Dean shaw it is also a very good note on which to end. Thank you very much. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. And applause] thank you. [cheers and applause] ship a load look now outside the Supreme Court, where people have been gathering. There have been tributes released from all of her fellow justices. You can find a link to that entire document in the Supreme Court section of cspan. Org. Is Washington Post reporting that in a friday night call between President Trump and Senate Majority leader mcconnell, the two discussed who might replace Justice Ginsburg. Thattory went on to say senator mcconnell promised mr. Trump that the president was the nominee would get a floor vote. [indistinct conversations] it was really nice. So i was here for the the lady was pregnant. [indistinct conversations] [indistinct conversations] [indistinct conversations]