How it will work will benefit senators in the public. The hearing room has been configured to maintain the recommended sixfoot social distancing between senators. Nominees, and other individuals in the room necessary to operate the hearing, which we have kept to a minimum. A number of senators have chosen to use secure video teleconference technology, which will allow them to remotely participate. For those joining by videoconference, once you start speaking, there will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the main screen. To minimize background noise, we ask senators who are using the videoconference option to please click the mute button until it is your turn to ask questions. If there is a technology issue, we will move to the next senator until that issue is resolved. I remind all senators and the nominees that the fiveminute clock still applies. For senators using the video option, youll notice a screen labeled clock that will show how much time is remaining. At about 30 seconds remaining, i will gently tap the gavel to remind senators that their time is almost expired. To simplify the speaking order, senator brown and i have agreed to go by seniority for this first hybrid meeting. Thank you to those of you who are here today, those appearing before us, and those who are keeping the capital complex safe and functioning while we honor our constitutional duty. The coronavirus, or covid19 pandemic, has challenged our sense of normalcy and it is tested every institution of daily life we know. The crisis has had a major impact on the physical and Economic Health of our country and a major response has been required. Congress and the administration have taken bold, dramatic steps to limit the depth of economic shock the country is currently experiencing, and to provide conditions for a quick and robust economic recovery once economic restrictions are lifted. The cares act went into effect just over one month ago, putting needed cash directly into the hands of American Workers and families, providing rapid relief to Small Businesses, helping to stabilize our markets and the economy, and sending a massive new infusion of resources to the front lines of the medical response. Title iv of the cares act, which is under the Banking Committee jurisdiction, provides 500 billion in emergency relief to provide liquidity to eligible businesses, states, municipalities, and tribes as related to losses incurred as a result of coronavirus. Implemented in this title is an important step to supporting the flow of credit in the economy. On april 9, 2020, the Federal Reserve board and department of treasury announced a new and expanded set of lending programs to provide up to 2. 3 trillion in loans. This 13. 3 federal Lending Facility actually, all of them, specifically the main street Lending Facility, are crucial components of the strategy to promote a ushaped recovery which reinforces the need to have them up and operating, and being is broadly available for as many businesses as possible. Title iv includes robust oversight requirements to ensure the statute is followed, and to protect against waste, fraud, and abuse. The special Inspector General for pandemic recovery, or sigper, another new federal acronym, will oversee the reporting and auditing requirements of the law, and it is critical that we quickly confirm the nominee so the important work can begin. This afternoon, we will consider the nominations the honorable brian miller of virginia to be special Inspector General for pandemic recovery. And mrs. Dana wade of the District Of Columbia to be assistant secretary for housing and federal housing commissioner at the u. S. Department of housing and urban development. Welcome to both of you, and congratulations on your nominations to these important positions. Section 4018 of the cares act establishes the special Inspector General for pandemic recovery. The duty of the sigpr is to conduct, supervise, and coordinate audits of the making, purchase, management, and sale of loans, loan guarantees, and other investments made by the secretary of the treasury under any program established by the secretary under this act, and the management by the secretary of any program established under this act. Mr. Miller is highly qualified for special Inspector General, having served as Inspector General for the special Services Administration for nearly a decade. The Senate Confirmed mr. Miller for that position in 2005 via voice vote, a position he held for nearly 10 years. In that role, mr. Miller lead more than 300 auditors, special agents, attorneys, and support staff in conducting nationwide audits and investigations, and reported on fraud, waste, and abuse. Hes been outspoken on the need for inspectors general to have independence, and to have access to information, and im confident he will carry out the responsibilities and mission of this position diligently, independently, and objectively. During a Senate JudiciaryCommittee Hearing in 2015, mr. Miller noted, in order to have effective oversight, an i. G. Must have independence to conduct an investigation, review, or audit. This includes determining what information is needed. It is the judgment of the i. G. Conducting the investigation that matters, not the judgment of the agency being investigated. I encourage my colleagues to support mr. Millers nomination so he can begin this vital oversight role. Turning to mrs. Dana wade, dana wade is wellprepared to take over the reins of the federal housing and ministration. She is familiar to the task, having operated as federal commissioner and general Deputy Assistant secretary for the office of housing. As acting commissioner, she directly managed faas portfolio single family, multifamily, and health care insurance. Section eight project rental assistance, the office of manufactured housing, and over 2400 personnel agencywide. Mrs. Wades extensive record also includes service as Senior Advisor to secretary ben carson, deputy staff director to this committee, and a Senate Appropriations committee, and as associate director at the office of management and budget, where she led all housingrelated issues and supervised hud, among other agencies. Great leadership will be required at fha during this unprecedented time of strain on both homeownership and rental markets. In the wake of covid19, we have already seen over 10 of fha borrowers enter mortgage forbearance. Fha insured Health Care Facilities feeling significant constrain and many fha assisted landlords struggle to make ends meet while countless renters are unsure where their next rent payment will come from. In the months ahead, fha will be on the front lines, helping many families get back on their feet and providing muchneeded liquidity throughout the Housing Finance system. Im confident that mrs. Wade will provide exactly the type of leadership that is needed during this critical time, as commissioner montgomery has done. I encourage my colleagues to support mrs. Wades nomination, as well as to confirm Brian Montgomery as deputy secretary, so we can best position hud to tackle the challenges ahead. Congratulations, again, to each of you on your nominations, and i thank you and your families for your willingness to serve. Senator brown . Sen. Brown i would like to say thank you to staff, the sergeant at arms, the architect of the capitol, the office of the attending physician, the Recording Studio, the senate rules committee, this is a team effort, working so hard the last couple of weeks to try to make these hearings as safe as possible, including by using technology for members to join these hearings remotely. Senators in both parties, maybe even a majority of the committee , i believe has decided to join , us this way. I want to thank Capitol Police and all other senate staff and contractors who worked to make sure the Senate Continues to run. I want to thank chairman crapo and his staff, thanks to laura in my office, and greg, the staff director, and cameron, for working together to provide that option for senators to join. It is the right thing to do, that we can all do what we think is best to keep ourselves and people who work here safe. I am concerned, however, mr. Chairman, at the reckless decision by leader Mitch Mcconnell to open the senate to session despite ongoing emergency stayathome orders all over the country, including in my state of ohio, governor dewine, including in washington d. C. , including senator van hollens maryland and virginia. Leader mcconnells actions are forcing capital complex workers, contract workers like the cleaning staff, who just cleaned this hearing room and will clean again when we are done, and Food Service Workers who just served the Republican Caucus lunch, that they are here working is going against Public Health authoritys advice, and they put themselves at risk to come to work. Most of those workers, unlike all of us who probably come to the capital from a nearby apartment or condo, or we come in cars, most of these workers come by bus and subway. And they put themselves at risk, creating more anxiety for their families. As i said, senator mcconnells decision was reckless and unfair, especially to those employees. To compound that, the Republican Leaders agenda this week does not include assistance for the unemployed. I appreciated chairman crapos comments about how many renters are living on the edge. Theres no support, and this week, that we can see from senator mcconnell, no attempts to support Community Health services. These are issues the senate should be taking on right now. Mr. Chairman i want to , congratulate the nominees, thank them for their willingness to serve. This is probably not the confirmation hearing that each of you had hoped for. I want to thank your families who i assume are watching from , home. The special Inspector General for Pandemic Response will oversee the cares act lending and investment programs that were designed to stabilize our economy and get help to communities and Small Businesses that are hurting so much during this pandemic. This lending will be critical to restarting our economy to begin the recovery. The fha commissioner faces an Affordable Housing crisis made even worse by this pandemic. Stability and the future of millions of families are on the line, as congress and this administration respond to this crisis, if confirmed he will serve impositions crucial implementing the policy response to the pandemic. This committee has oversight over the treasury and Federal Reserve loan programs under cares. That is why i fought for this office and the special Inspector General for Pandemic Response. The American People need a strong watchdog to make sure the 500 billion of taxpayer money provided under this act, and the 4 trillion the Federal Reserve will lend, that it actually goes to support workers and communities and businesses. Because the act grants the treasury secretary and the fed broad discretion over who gets these loans, and on what terms. Special Inspector General needs to look at all. We have seen how the Small Business loans so far went to Big Companies and important clients of wall street banks, while Community Banks and credit unions, their customers on main street and underserved communities waited and waited and waited. Most of us have heard the frustration from restaurants and barber shops and cafes and so many other Small Businesses in our state that are facing impossible decisions right now. They spend hours on the phone trying to talk to someone about a loan. They have either been turned down or cannot get answers, while wellconnected franchises go to the front of the line. That is simply unacceptable. We cannot let the same thing these loans by the treasury and the fed. Yes, a loan should be a lesson to congress as we consider additional recovery measures, and a lesson to the special Inspector General. In addition to these concerns, President Trump has shown outright hostility toward anyone who tries to hold him accountable to the American People whom he serves. Special hostility towards inspectors general. I think mr. Miller realizes that. The president removed the acting ig for the Defense Department who was set to become chairman of the Pandemic Response. He fired the Intelligence Committee i. G. Last friday. Friday, he replaced the acting health and Human Services i. G. All these professionals were simply doing their jobs, and exposed misconduct in the administration. That is what their jobs are. Looking at the last 20 years, we found only one i. G. Candidate was nominated while serving in the white House Counsel. Both of them resigned one for , politicizing the office, the other for a lack of independence. Not a great track record when a president appoints a lawyer in his office in the white house to be an Inspector General that oversees and examines white house behavior. We passed the cares act to support our economy by helping workers, main street businesses, state and local governments, and nonprofit. We cannot tolerate businesses and their workers suffering to protect the president , protect his family, protect his allies, because of corruption, misuse, and favoritism. Mr. Miller, if you are confirmed i expect you to follow the , letter and spirit of the law and to serve the American People, not President Trump. As Inspector General, you must be willing to stand up to the administration and any other bad actor and uphold the laws. Anything less is totally unacceptable. While mr. Miller is the only nominee before us today with Pandemic Response in his title, make no mistake, the fha and the office of housing will be on the frontlines of our nations response as well. In good times, fha provides access to affordable homeownership for millions of families. When the economy slows, the fha is expected to step up to meet the needs of more households and keep the Mortgage Market working, even as others in the market retreat. During the 2008 financial crisis, economists estimated that fhas action helped prevent an additional 25 decline in housing classes and the loss of an additional 3 million jobs. Quite a responsibility and a performance. Fhas decisions will determine whether families can remain in their homes, or whether communities face a foreclosure crisis on top of a Public Health crisis. It will help determine whether the burden is like the 2008 crisis, falls most heavily on communities of color exacerbates , economic inequality, or whether we live damped policies to provide equitable recovery to support housing in the hands of homeowners in communities rather than wall street investors. Decisions at the office of housing will determine whether policies and funding are in place to keep the lowest income seniors, persons with disability, people in hudfinanced health facilities, to keep them safe. Over the past three years, the administration has tried to gut funding to housing and community developing programs. They rolled back housing protections and other civil rights protections. They have undermined the safety of manufactured housing residents. They have tried to make housing harder to maintain. I hope the answers that misses way provides today makes sheer makes clear that she will that i hope the answers mrs. Wade provides today will make clear she will fight alongside us to reverse that trend. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and thank you again for being the first in the senate to do a hearing like this. Thank you. Sen. Crapo thank you. I will now administer the oath. Would both of our witnesses stand and raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Sen. Crapo thank you. You may sit down. Your written statements will be made a part of the record in their entirety. Usually at this point, we give you a chance to introduce your family. We will thank them on your behalf, since we are keeping the number of people in the hearing room to a minimum. With that, i would like to invite you to proceed. Mr. Miller, would you please begin . Mr. Miller thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank the chairman and Ranking Member for having this hearing. I would like to thank President Trump for nominating me. Most of all, i want to thank my wife and family for their encouragement to continue Public Service, especially in such a demanding job. Thank you. I have been fortunate to have a long career in Public Service that has prepared me well for this position. I have close to 30 years of experience in the federal government. 15 years in the department of justice, and nearly 10 years as a senateconfirmed Inspector General at the general Services Administration, serving across both republican and democratic administrations. I have also served as an independent corporate monitor and practiced law in the areas of ethics and compliance, government contracts, and internal investigations. I am amazed and humbled by the letters of support i have received in such a short time period, during a time of a pandemic. I am deeply grateful for those who signed from all varieties of political stripes. From former officials in the obama, bush, and clinton administrations. I would like to thank them, and i would like them to know that i will always endeavor to be the man they described in their letters. If confirmed, i will conduct every audit and investigation with fairness and impartiality. I will be vigilant to protect the integrity and independence of the office of special Inspector General. I pledge to seek the truth in all matters that come before me, and to use my authority and resources to uncover fraud, waste, and abuse. I stand ready to answer any questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Crapo thank you. Mrs. Wade. Mrs. Wade thank you. Chairman crapo, Ranking Member brown, and members of this committee, thank you for inviting me here to testify today as the nominee for federal housing commissioner, and assistant secretary for housing at the department of housing and urban development. I also want to thank President Trump for the privilege of being nominated for this position. It is truly an honor to be here after serving as a staff member of this committee, and spending a good part of my career working for senator shelby on both the banking and appropriations committees. Im extremely grateful for him for such opportunities. I am also very thankful for the love and support of my wonderful family. I regret that both my husband chris and my daughter mary, as well as my niece ava, could be here not in person but only in spirit. But i would like to wish my daughter mary a happy birthday. She turns six years old tomorrow. As i look around this hearing room, i see the senate continuing the peoples work, but under very different circumstances. If confirmed, i will commit to doing everything i can as fha commissioner to help the country emerge from the covid19 pandemic healthier, stronger, and with a more prosperous economy. Never has it been more clear than today that hud and fha play critical roles in our nations safety net. Secretary carson and the dedicated staff at hud are working tirelessly to minimize the impact of covid19 to renters, homeowners, and vulnerable populations that hud serves every day. We are grateful for the hard work and bipartisan commitment of this committee and congress in passing legislation that safeguards American Families, communities, and the economy from this terrible virus. I joined Public Service in the midst of a different crisis, the financial crisis of 2008, during which i gained valuable experience that i believe will serve me well if confirmed. I learned that during times like these, it is important to make sure assistance quickly reaches those in need, and that we maximize the effectiveness of every federal dollar. I have been a Staff Committee of the budget, banking, and appropriations committees, as well as an associate director at the office of management and budget. I have also been the acting head of fha and huds office of housing, where i implemented reforms that better managed risk, builtup capital, and provided Greater Transparency to the public. If confirmed, my priorities for fha and the office of housing would be as follows. First, given this unprecedented situation and global pandemic, protecting current fha homeowners and renters. I know i do not have to tell this committee, fha homeowners are low to moderate income, first time, and minority borrowers. And most of these hudassisted homeowners and renters are experiencing covidrelated hardships through no fault of their own. Second, i would ensure that fha has the necessary staffing and other resources, as well as considering the modernization effort, which will allow fha to perform its important Counter Cyclical role to support the housing market. Third, i will vigilantly monitor losses stemming from covid19 and protect fhas capital reserve to the maximum extent possible. I believe that fha has a duty to support the Nations Housing market and homeowners facing economic hardship. While the virus will pass, and the economy will eventually regain its previous strength, the road to recovery will require our sustained effort. If confirmed, i will do all that i can to run a strong and sustainable fha, one that serves homeowners, renters, and taxpayers well. I am committed to working with this committee and with congress, and i look forward to answering your questions today. Thank you. Sen. Crapo thank you, mrs. Wade. I will begin my questioning with you, mr. Miller. As you heard, and i am sure you were aware before you even arrived here today, one of the big criticisms of you is that you will not be independent, because you come from the white house, or had service in the white house. As you know, independence of sigpr is critical under title iv in the cares act. Can you talk about the importance of sigpr maintaining its independence, how you have demonstrated your independence in the past, and how you expect to conduct your actions if confirmed to this position . Mr. Miller thank you for the question. I think independence is vital for the effective operation of any Inspector General, and i have said that for not just now, but for many years. I served for 10 years as Inspector General of the general Services Administration, and at every point, i had to fight for independence to perform audits and investigations objectively, fairly, and independently. And i met with resistance throughout my tenure as Inspector General. I conducted investigations of major contractors, much to the chagrin of people in leadership positions at the gfa, and, i daresay, in congress. And i received criticism for that. Ultimately, i was proven right, the audits were correct and accurate, and we provided effective oversight and leadership. I believe that my tenure as Inspector General at gsa also helped gsa to become a better agency. I think the hardworking men and women of my office at that time provided a great service. I think that oversight is essential for the effective operation of all programs, and especially now with the pandemic recovery. Its vital that this money goes to the Small Businesses and hardworking americans that need the money right now, and we cant afford to have it diverted to fraud, waste, and abuse, and diverted to the pockets of those that scheme to defraud the government and take that money out of their pockets. So, its vital to have an independent, effective Inspector General. Sen. Crapo thank you. Mrs. Wade, in the months ahead, the fha will be on the frontlines helping many families, providing muchneeded liquidity throughout the Housing Finance system. As a former acting commissioner, you understand fhas Important Role to consumers, taxpayers, our Housing Finance system. We are involved with ongoing efforts to implement the cares act provisions related to housing, specifically for forbearance relief, as well as restrictions on foreclosures and evictions. Will you work with us to implement these provisions and ensure that the options available when exiting forbearance are clear for consumers to understand, and straightforward for services of fha mortgages to administer . Mrs. Wade yes. Thank you for the question. We are obviously facing an Unprecedented Health crisis and it is incredibly important to protect homeowners and renters who, through no fault of their own, are experiencing covidrelated hardships. It can also be a confusing time. It is important to provide as much clarity as possible, and as much certainty from fha as possible in fulfilling its countercyclical duty. Sen. Crapo many of our hospitals, Health Care Facilities, and Senior Living facilities at the frontlines of the battle against covid19 are financed in part through fhas section 232 or 242 programs. Can you speak quickly, about 45 seconds, to f. H. A. s role in the Health Care Economy and some of the challenges they face . Mrs. Wade yes, again, mr. Chairman, that is a very important part of f. H. A. s portfolio. No one that fha serves should be concerned except serving those who are covid19 patients in need and protecting the health and safety of their employees. I believe now in f. H. A. S Health Care portfolio, its a time we need to provide maximum flexibility, and to that end, i know f. H. A. Has already taken action to allow these Health Care Facilities to access things like their research and it is important to work each and every day with the operators of these facilities in order to sustain their mission and make sure they f. H. A. As mortgage insurer make sure they can appropriate operate during this time. Senator crapo thank you. Senator brown . Senator brown your daughters 6th birthday. My granddaughter just celebrated , we had to do it from afar because it was last month. Mrs. Wade, you were responsible for overseeing hud and other federal agencies for o. M. D. , correct, right . Mrs. Wade that is correct. Sen. Brown under your leadership, o. M. B. Approved two rules that happened undermine the federal housing act. A rule that would cost the federal government more money, displaced more than 60,000 children. I dont see how we can trust you to make sure hud is providing an active bill equitable recovery for families. Mr. Miller, i would like to ship to you. Two years ago, you wrote an article criticizing congress for telling Inspector Generals to investigate the trump administration. Four months later, President Trump gave you a job in the counsels office at the white house. Now the Senate Considers an appointment to the office that will be responsible for, among other things, investigating the trump administration, exactly what you criticized. Even if i did not have concerns about your independence i still , have concerns about how this administration treats i. G. s that simply do their job. Heres a recent example from friday. The president , after unfairly smearing her, removed christi grimm, the acting i. G. Who identified shortages and testing equipment and ppe. Mr. Miller, you can establish your independence right now in front of this hearing. Can you tell this committee that it was wrong for the president of the United States to remove ms. Grimm for doing her job and holding the Administration Accountable . Mr. Miller senator, first of all, id like to say, i wrote an article defending the independence of inspectors general. Im always concerned that inspectors general remain independent from any influence, whether it be from the executive or the legislative branch, so i dont think that youre fairly characterizing my article and i feel very strongly that i. G. Should be independent and should report the facts as they see them, as they find them, and not to bend them to any influence whatsoever. Senator brown i appreciate your response. Was it wrong to remove we only have five minutes. Was it wrong for the president to remove ms. Grimm for doing her job . Mr. Miller senator, im not here to assess those sorts of actions. Im here to tell you about my background, my qualifications for this position. Senator brown i understand that. I understand that, mr. Miller, but there is a skepticism when it is not general practice that the president of the United States nominates somebody for a job in important as Inspector General who came out of the white house and you have a bar you need to get over to demonstrate your independence. I was hoping this would be a way to do it. Let me ask you another question. Will you view your job expansively to the fullest extent provided by law so you dont just go after little companies or easy cases, but look at all misconduct even when , the evidence of wrongdoing could either upset individuals in the administration or their preferred narrative . Senator mr. Miller absolutely, senator. Senator brown i appreciate that. The concern about conflict and your independence should be obvious. It is important that you look at this expansively. Last question, the cares act gives the treasury secretary control of 500 billion of taxpayer money for loans and investments. Do you agree that the special i. G. For Pandemic Response has a responsibility to look at how all of those funds are districted, whether by treasury or the Federal Reserve . Mr. Miller senator, the special i. G. Has responsibility for the programs administered by the secretary of treasury. I will do that faithfully, fairly, and impartially. Independently. Senator brown all right, thank you mr. Chairman. , senator crapo thank you, senator shelby. To theome back committee. You spent a lot of time here, working as an important part of the banking staff, that you worked on the appropriations staff, then you went on to greater things and you have been nominated to a very important position. , be it anhe education undergraduate degree from torch town economics, youve got the experience. Im here to support you. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent that my written statement in support of this nominee be made part of the record. That wherever you go, but especially at hud, the Deputy Director there, on housing, you carry a lot of experience, you carry good judgment, they can use you over there, you can serve the American People well. You have in the past and i predict you will in the future. I believe you will be confirmed, i am here to say that i have i support you without reservation. I know you, i worked with you, most of the members of the committee worked with you. We have respect for you. Godspeed. We will need to vote on it as soon as we can mr. Chairman. , thank you. Thank you, senator shelby. Senator reed . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Ill wait a moment to ensure i can be heard. Mr. Miller i want to follow up , on the question that senator brown presented because the independence of the Inspector General is absolutely critical and the behaviors weve seen in the white house and also other areas suggest that theres a disregard to independence of the Inspector General and while you where there, particularly in the context of the impeachment proceedings, the general counsels office completely dismissed any request for cooperation by the congress and the constitutional duty we had. You yourself wrote a letter that the general counsel stating that the white house is not planning to respond separately, i. E. , take a hike. That doesnt suggest thatind of independence youd be beholding to the white house, not critical of the white house. Would you like to respond . Mr. Miller senator, i will have no hesitancy to do so. I will follow the facts wherever they may lead. I will have no hesitancy to do so. I think you have unfairly characterized the letter. Im just answering the mail. We hope you wont just be entering the mail. Thats the point we want to make explicitly. Let me turn to another issue, a more technical issue with respect to the cares act. Title iv authorizes the secretary of treasury to acquire warrants in some of the funding programs. In many respects it echoes some , of the work i did in 2008 where we did have warrants and after the fact, realized about 10 billion of the taxpayers of the United States by executing those warrants. If confirmed, can you explain how you will evaluate whether warrants have been properly executed for the taxpayers . There are ways to write warrants so that the maximum potential is not realized in terms of strike price. Can you give us an indication of what you will do . Mr. Miller i will have to study that issue more carefully, but i will tell you, as Inspector General, i will analyze all of the ramifications of these programs. If someone is taking advantage of the system or selfdealing, i would like to know that and report on that, so i will analyze those transactions very carefully, obtain information about them, and, if necessary, subpoena the information if i cant get it otherwise. Thank you very much. Mrs. Wade, we are familiar with your experience in housing and budgetary policy. Senator shall be made that clear in his remarks. Years, the several president in the 2021 budget sent out a budget that would zero out the Public HousingCapital Funding fund and zero dollars for the home program. If we had followed that advice, where would we be today in terms of the crisis were facing . Mrs. Wade this administration has provided unprecedented support to populations who needed, vulnerable populations. Through the cares act assistance. It is incredibly important to continue to focus and do everything that we can to keep those hudassisted homeowners and renters in their home to provide, again, the maximum flexibilities, to provide tools to enable them to stay in their home and enable f. H. A. To mitigate risk. I believe that this is an evolving situation. I think were all ready to use whatever tools at our disposal in order to help people, help borrows and renters and i look forward to working with congress on those objectives. Just a final point. My estimation would be, had we zeroed out those programs, the situation we see today, in which were trying to stabilize the housing for so many people, would have been much, much worse and i hope that Going Forward, not just in terms of special Appropriations Bills like the cares act, but in routine budgets, you will advocate for strong funding for all these programs. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Sen. Crapo senator toomey . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman, and thank you for our Witnesses Today and thanks for your willingness to serve. I appreciate that. Both of you bring a wealth of experience to your respective roles and i am pleased with that fact. Mr. Miller, let me start with you. First of all, i appreciate our conversation earlier where we discussed your role, should you be confirmed, but id like to go back to this issue. Several of my colleagues now have questioned your willingness to be independent of the administration and seems to me that theres some history here that may be worth a little bit of elaboration. You made a passing reference to it, but in a prior role when you were the i. G. At the g. S. A. , under a republican administration, i believe, you conducted what seems like a very thorough and ended up in a way being, i suppose, antagonistic in the sense that there was wrongdoing and you pursued it. So could you tell us a little bit about that . Because i think a persons History Speaks louder than anything else. Mr. Miller thank you, senator, for the question. There were a number of instances where i investigated individuals and companies and met with resistance at every turn. At one point, i had to investigate the administrator herself, a bush appointee, as i was. And we very aggressively investigated her and found that she steered a contract to a friend for 20,000 a month and it ended up in hearings. She ended up calling me a terrorist and i had just come off from the u. S. Attorneys office, where i prosecuted terrorists, including ms. Howie. So she publicly called me a terrorist, she wrote memoranda to regional administrators asking them to help her fight the i. G. , me, and various members of Congress Called on the president to fire me. Later on, the president did ask for her resignation. There were a number of other incidents as well that came up that i had to investigate and it was very difficult to do so. I had to fight for the offices effectiveness through maintaining independent hiring process. At one point, there was a freeze put on my hiring ability to hire anyone. There were budget cuts. There were all sorts of ways to try and hinder the independence and effectiveness of the Inspector General. But i worked through it all, i insisted on being independent and never compromising the facts or the truth, and i made those reports public. Later on, i investigated a conference. That was all during the bush administration. During the obama administration, i investigated a conference in las vegas, and during that investigation, i had political appointees asking me to stop that investigation, asking me not to publish a report. I had political appointees call me up and say, why do you have to make this public . Cant you give it to us privately and never let anyone know . Of course, i did not follow that advice. I was not moved by that pressure. I went ahead, reported the facts, and you all know about it. But i do think that the agency itself is much better as a result and i think that every program and operation is better as a result of oversight. I would add that after i left and was trying to start a law practice, Michael Horowitz, the i. G. At department of justice, had some difficulty having access to information and there was a hearing before the Senate Judiciary committee. Michael called me and talked to me about it and asked me to come and testify. I did testify at that hearing and im grateful for the chairman for quoting part of my testimony at that hearing. Thank you, and one more last question for mr. Miller. As one of the two senate designees to the congressional oversight commission, we might have some similar responsibilities, and i wonder if you could just share with us your thoughts on the differences between our respective responsibilities, that of the commission versus the Inspector General, how that might be delineated. I know this is going to be a work in progress, but any thoughts you have on that. Mr. Miller yes, thank you, senator, and i hope, if the Senate Confirms me, we get to Work Together on that. I would like to work very cooperatively with the commission and the g. A. O. And the various i. G. s themselves. I think that delineating the responsibilities so that there is not overlap would be important. We dont want to waste precious federal resources so we want to make sure we know what each other is doing and how we can complement each other, rather than work against each other or duplicate each others actions. All of that would be very important in that respect. I dont want to presume my confirmation, but i took the opportunity to contact Michael Horowitz and the vice char of the prac. Jean at s. B. O. , the new executive director to see how we can Work Together and delineate our roles and deconflict where there may be differences. I dont think it serves anyone to duplicate each others efforts. It would be vital to share information and im trying to i would like to have the opportunity to work on an informationsharing program in i. T. So that theres realtime access to information. Sen. Crapo senator menendez . I want to take a minute to reflect on the enormity of the situation before us. If weve learned anything from this crisis, if weve learned anything about how staying at home can flatten the curve and keep our families and our communities safe is that housing iS Health Care. Americans shouldnt have to fear being thrown out on the street if they miss their next rent or mortgage payment and when the protections in the cares act runs out, we could be facing a foreclosure crisis even greater than the one we faced during the Great Recession. We can stop that if we want to. All it takes is for this committee to marshal the resources of the federal government and we can make sure that every american has a safe and healthy place to call home. In that vein, we saw during the Great Recession how f. H. A. Stepped into the markets when private lenders were unwilling or unable to do so. If confirmed, will you commit to making sure f. H. A. Plays a strong Counter Cyclical role in to helpgage market finance a home for American Families now that private lenders may be less willing to do so . Mrs. Wade yes, senator, and first of all, id like to thank you for commenting on the gravity of the situation and i believe that this is integral. Providing and performing Counter Cyclical support is integral to f. H. A. s mission. It is incredibly important that f. H. A. Stay open for business and do everything it can to promote market stability during this time. What specific actions would you be looking, if confirmed, to take in the next six months to further that end . Mrs. Wade that is a great question. And again, maintaining f. H. A. s operation and doing things that will allow consumers to continue to access credit, such as i. T. Modernization, which has really streamlined the process for obtaining credit. Other organizational goals to help f. H. A. To operate on a daily basis. I think implementing the cares act and future assistance packages will also be incredibly important for f. H. A. And if confirmed, i will do everything i can to expeditiously get any cares act or Additional Support to those who need it the most. Well be looking forward to that upon your confirmation. Mr. Miller, would you agree that independence is among the most important qualities for an Inspector General . Mr. Miller i do, yes. If someone from the white house calls to you discuss the recovery, would you take the call . Yes or no . Mr. Miller if someone from the press, did you say . The president or someone from the white house calls you to discuss the recovery, would you take that call . Mr. Miller i dont think i receive such a call but it depends on what the call is about. I will not be pressured to not perform an audit or an investigation, but its hard to say if i dont know what the call is about. If secretary mnuchin wants to explain why Certain Companies received assistance under the cares act, do you think it is appropriate to take his call . Mr. Miller i think its appropriate to know why hes making such determinations and if he wants to explain it himself, i would think that my office would like to listen. Whether i sit in on that meeting or not is something id have to decide on but sermon we want to know why they are administering programs in the way that they are. I think theres a difference when youre generating those questions to them than when theyre trying to weigh in as to why theyve acted in ways that may or may not be within the laws context. Let me ask you this. You were in the white houses counsels office when the president decided to terminate Intelligence CommunityInspector General atkinson. Is that correct . Mr. Miller yes. Did you play any role in that decision . Mr. Miller senator, i cant get into specifics about what goes on in the White House Counsels Office. I do appreciate i simply asked if you played a role. I didnt ask what role you played. Mr. Miller mmhm. Senator, i read about the firing of mr. Atkinson in the newspaper. Ok, that doesnt answer my question. President trump said of Inspector General atkinson, the man is a disgrace to i. G. s, hes a total disgrace. Do you agree with that statement . Mr. Miller senator, theres a number of reasons why i dont want to get involved in that question. First of all, i dont know all the facts. I dont know what went on, i dont know what the thinking was, and secondly, a lot of that is protected by white house confidentiality. As a lawyer, i have ethical obligations to find all lawyers and when Justice Kagan was before the senate for confirmation, she limited her comments about her time in White House Counsels Office and her time in the Clinton Domestic Policy Council to the white house. My time has expired but i want to say, i did not ask you what you specifically did if you did something. I asked you whether you were involved. I didnt ask you about any confidentiality when i asked the question about the way the president classified inspector atkinson. And i think independence, as you state, is incredibly important , so trying to judge how you view those actions, independently on whether you precipitated or not whether you participated or not, is very telling. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Crapo thank you, and next to senator rounds. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to begin with mr. Miller. Earlier in your testimony, he did not get an opportunity to respond to the Ranking Members suggestion that there were an inappropriate difficult while you were at o. M. B. Id like to give you an opportunity right now to respond to share your activities and , maybe what the Ranking Member suggested was an inappropriate activity. Mr. Miller senator, thank you, im assuming that you i apologize. That was for ms. Wade, not for mr. Miller. Mrs. Wade yes, senator, thank you very much for the question and i appreciate the opportunity to be able to respond. First of all, housing discrimination is intolerable and if confirmed, i will do everything i can to enforce the nations fair housing laws. That is my commitment. In addition, related to my role at o. M. B. , i led a Resource Management organization and to that end, it was our job and it was my job to make sure that taxpayer money was spent efficiently and economically. It is a very important oversight role in the government. Im very proud of the work they did at o. M. B. So i thank you for the opportunity to respond. Thank you. Mr. Miller, i do appreciate your conversations with me earlier. I wish it was in person, but naturally, weve been doing a lot of these conversations long distance, so i appreciated the comments earlier today that we had. Mr. Miller thank you. I think its really important that not only are you in a position to talk about what might be of a criminal nature that occurs but also in terms of making sure the program is run as efficiently as possible and that they set out the goal that congress set out in the first place. Part of it is immediate feedback. Members of the congress get that feedback in a lot of cases. Senator menendez was talking about whether or not youd take a phone call from the white house. Im curious, would you take a phone call from a member of a senator looking at ways to make things better or asking question to whether or not certain parts of the program way theyg operated the were supposed to . Would you take that phone call from a senator . Mr. Miller senator, this is such an Important Program and its so important that this money gets to the right people that i think we should be willing to look at how we can improve it in real time. Congress has an opportunity to clarify the act and clarify how this is done and if we find out things are not working well in a particular area, i think the senate should be willing to change it so that it can work better and knowing where its working and not working in real time is vital, so in that respect, i would welcome a call from a senator, and it does make sense to talk to the secretary as well as other treasury officials to know what theyre doing, whats working, whats not working. They could very well say we , cant make this program work and that could be part of my , report to the congress. Earlier we discussed there could be ways in which members of, perhaps the house or the senate, because were talking with folks every single day about how these are working. Is there a procedure you could establish to make it so that when members of this committee or other committees want to get in touch with you that it is seamless in nature. Easier to make sure that you are getting information to you and you are recognizing the fact that we are contacting you and responding back . Is there a process that youd be interested in seeing pursued to make it easy that information we get gets passed down to your team . Mr. Miller thank you for the question. I do believe it is vital to share information and i could see my office performing the function of a Clearing House or the socalled prac. The Accountability Committee of i. G. s so much of what we have to do will rely on Data Analytics and i. T. Systems. To the extent that we are putting those in place, i can see the benefits of having a system where we can hear from congress in realtime as well and perform a clearinghouse function so we know that information thats coming in to all of us is getting to the right places. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Right places right places. Senator tester . Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you, senators for doing this meeting and doing it in the way youve done. I appreciate it. Mr. Miller, i had a chance to meet with you last week. I told you i was going to ask how many employees do you need to do this job . I have the background and ability to do this job and to do it independently. The act gives me some resources. If i ever lack resources i will be coming back to this committee to let you know. Ok, so you dont have an idea of how many people youre going to need to do this job . I think initially i will start with between probably 75 to 100. It will be hard to staff up quickly because i have to build it from scrap and get hiring from scratch, and get hiring authority to go through the g. S. System. Starting up will take a lot of doe come at a think that to the job effectively, i think i will need to start somewhere between 50 and 100, more like 75 to 100. All right. This two pointer two to the number package is the biggest package anybodys ever voted on, i think, on this committee. Will you commit your recording to congress immediately if treasury does not follow the transparency requirements in the cares act that require treasury to disclose loan recipients . Requirements that require them mr. Miller yes, sir, im act tod under the i. G. Do that. The cares act requires if you request information from agencies that is not provided you, do you intend to follow that . I do. Good. Inspector general served a clinical role in government regardless of whether the person in the white house is democrat or republican it critical role. Do you promise to let Congress Know if youre being pressured in your position by political appointees or others, to not pursue certain investigations. I will and as i said, the i. G. Act requires that i. G. s report Serious Problems to congress and i will also report if members of congress exert that pressure. Congress exuded that pressure. In the statement for the act president of trump argued they have control over the reports and they cannot report to Congress Without permission. How do you interpret the president ial supervision described in the statement accompanying the act . I am trying to avoid stepping in between the battles of the executive branch and the legislative branch. I will follow the law both section four of the act that requires me to report the problems. Wwill only report that to congress but they will tell us the president tried to stop you from avoiding it . If the president himself does not i would think that would be a serious issue. If the president does it or has one of his minions with direct connection to give information to us. This is from my perspective ive perspectivestonewalled every step of the way to get information from the administration where the money is going. Every single step of the way. So, your position is critically important if we are going to have any oversight. Did your White House Service have any involvement. My ability to respond to questions about what goes on in the White House Counsel Office or the white house may be limited by my ethical obligations that bind all lawyers and i will follow the example of limiting comments about her service in the white House Counsel. If we were in its different situation, first of all this is 2. 2 trillion of taxpayer money and second, ive watched. On the impeachment, it didnt happen and i watched you remove the one fine. The question is you worked as the white House Counsel and the practice i have no doubt hes going to remove you because hes done it time and time again. The question is were you aware of the situation and did you have any input . I will be independent if the president removes me he will remove me and if i am unable to do my job i will reside. But i will do my job faithfully and independently not on the white House Counsel operations with the justice and many others that have come from the White House Counsels Office and have gone to the appointed positions as judges and other positions. Senator kennedy. You were appointed Inspector General of the gsa to 2005, isnt that right quest to become . And who appointed you . I served nearly ten years for much of the obama administration. You said you had to investigate the administrator what are the conclusions of your investigation of the Administrator Appointed by president bush . A contract to a friend in violation of the procurement law and also made a referral of the violation to the special counsel to the conclusion that he did violate the act. And you wrote a report on that . To the special counsel report on the violation. Was the administrator happy for the report . Did anybody criticize you for writing that report . Give me some examples. Certainly other people in the Administration Still criticize me for that. And the bush administration. Did you change your report . Did you change your conclusion . I stood firm. Does that make you feel comfortable, was it a pleasant experience . You have to do the right thing and be comfortable with your own conscience and it doesnt matter what anybody else thinks. So you were appointed by president bush to the administrator was appointed by president bush. You as the Inspector General investigated and the white house didnt like that. Some people in congress didnt like that but you couldnt send your report. Not at all. I looked for your background, mr. Miller. I looked you up on the internet, ive read your resume, ive heard all of the allegations, made the allegations is too strong of a word. The innuendo and suggestions that you would be a puppet of the president. I dont understand the basis of that. I have looked everywhere. Is there any place in your background as an assistant u. S. Attorney or Inspector General for a decade at gsa where you back down because youve been told to back down . No, sir. Did you ever back off of the case because somebody with political influence told you to . Is there anything that would indicate you are willing to sacrifice your principles of somebody and political power if they tell you to . One of the letters is from my special agents when i was the Inspector General that talks about how i let them continue an investigation when ther whereine some people in the office to talk it should be shut down and obviously they prove the case and got a conviction. Thank you. I dont have any questions. Q. Does a great job. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator warren. Senator elizabeth warren. Are either senator warner or senator warren lysol senator warren. Senator warren is trying to get her microphone to work. Apparently we are having some trouble, so we will come back to senator warren and we will move at this moment to senator van hollen. I want to congress you laid both the witnesses on your nominations. I will be submitting some questions for the record with respect to your nomination. As the Inspector General as many have pointed out that requires independence and also requires the determination to conduct rigorous investigations to get to the truth, to get to the facts that uncover any wrongdoing so i want to ask about the role in responding to the investigation conducted by the Nonpartisan Government Accountability Office for the Security Assistance to ukraine. I asked the gao to conduct the inquiry and they ultimately concluded the administration withholding Security Assistance was illegal under the empowerment control act. Gao also raised majothe gao alsr concerns about the executive branch stonewalling in very, saying in the report that the blocking of the investigation rose to the level and, quote, it is a constitutional significan significance. View participated in that as the white house lawyer assigned a letter that we would not provide a substantive reply. Just answering the mail, yet you were nominated and confirmed as the Inspector General here and you wrote to an agency with information about one of the issues they were investigating and they refused to respond. Would that be acceptable to you . No, sir. I was answering the mail and wanted to make sure that they have received an answer. I respect the gao and wanted to make sure the inquiries were responded to so i stepped in and made sure that they got the response and that the council responded to the questions. I have the letter you cited 2019 responding to the general counsel of the gao. The white house doesnt plan to respond separately twodoor letters and can you tell us the white house didnt have information that was responsive to the gao inquiry . I cant talk about confidentiality, secondly i am familiar with the fact that general counsel responded to the questions of gao and instead of having separate responses from the chief of staff and white House Counsel to said pallone. Could you respond to that particular issue. Right, but the letter was seeking documents and other factual information, so is it your testimony today under oath that the omb letter and their response met all the requirements you would consider necessary to be truthful and honest in their response . I am simply saying i sent a letter to make sure the gao had the response of the appropriate officials in the white house. Regarding the general counsels letter and asking whether your testimony didnt have any Additional Information that was responsive to the gao inquiry as i understand your statement today, you either dont know or wont say. Is that correct . Server, it is probably both. I think that this is an example of no good deed goes unpunished. I have respect for the gao and i wanted to make sure the letter was responded to, and the later did get responded to and if they could stop the inquiries and they had an answer to their inquiry. With all due respect you said it was great that you responded so my final question is if you are confirmed to this position and Inspector General to view the response that you go you goe white house that he signed a, but you find that stonewalling acceptable . I would like to continue. Briefly, please. As far as the letter goes, the general counsel of the office of budget was answering a budget question and i was simply pointing out what they have for the respond. And i am not really sure what your question is getting at. I thank you. It wasnt just asking for that response. The reason they also wrote to the white house is to get any documents and relevant information that the white house may have had with respect to their inquiry. You essentially give them a non responsive to talk to the other agency. My question would be acceptable tthat beacceptable to you condue investigation . I have to conclude from your answers that it would be. We are going to go back now to see if senator warren is available. Senator warren . Thank you. We are in the middle of a public pandemic crisis that has already killed more than 60,000 people and this is also in economic crisis. It created a 500 billion slush fund for china corporations and is confident with the special Inspector General, it will be mr. Millers job to conduct the oversight and make sure the workers and families. So mr. Miller, lets start with the basics. Under the act to investigate the response and distributed by the taxpayer backed Federal Reserve and what do companies do with the grant, is that correct . I will follow the law and make sure that we do an investigation on those programs. This is an easy question. Can we just do yes, thats right . Can you repeat the question, please . Im just citing what the law says. I will follow the law. And it gives you the same authority as all in doctors general under the Inspector Generals act to conduct investigations for the purpose of the efficiency or preventing and detecting the fraud and abuse in the government. Is that right . That is perfect. So they give you the authority and the tools to investigate people that are handing out the money. So now i just want to ask how you plan to use your authority. I dont ask about how they will investigate. For example, if a giant corporation gets a bailout financed by tax payers dollars and then lays off board for low as botha pinch of workers i thit we agree this would constitute a potential waste or abuse of the funds. Would you investigate such a case . Im not going to answer hypotheticals, but i will tell you i would investigate any misuse of the monies. [inaudible] thats how we evaluate looking out for taxpayer funds. You said yesterday when you and i spoke privately that you thought that would constitute a bailout fund and i just want to know if that is the case, would you investigate . For the giant corporation to get a bailout financed and then lays off a bunch of workers and at least a potential abuse to investigate and find out more. Yes, senator. Another if they get the bailout financed by taxpayers is that a potential situation for fraud or abuse if you were to investigate . Im not comfortable answering hypotheticals. The purpose of im just asking in general is that the kind of thing . You are saying an investigation is appropriate and yesterday you said it was and i just want to know while you are under oath. I want to be careful about hypotheticals. Certain situations where companies are spending the money for profits and laying off workers it seems to be a situation that i would want to investigate. Good. And how about when companies are lobbying. You said you would want to look at those. How about not, is something you would want to invest . Again, senator, i am not comfortable with the whole yesterday intact when i asked about the white house i you said you wanted to include that as well. I dont understand why they wont state it in public right now. Senator, im going to investigate any area that i think is an abuse im trying to ask do you think lobbying and getting money as a potential for abuse that he would investigate. Its possible, senator. Said if it is possible, would you investigate . I would investigate it if it were lobbying congress or the white house. Thats all i want. And then, even if the Treasury Department doesnt put any restrictions or asks for information about how the money will be used or strict corporate lobbying, what you requested information from the companies that received under this program . I will investigate all potential conflicts of interest. And if i dont have the information through the Health Department of treasury, i was requested them to subpoena the information if i dont get it. And would make that information public to see what is going on . Scenic my goal is to make all information public and inform the taxpayers. The only possible exception of a senator, would be if it is part of a criminal referral to the department of justice. Good. I am glad to hear that because transparency is important. I think that the act should have ironclad rules on company is getting a bailout. Now the primary tools that we have to stop corporations from using the bailout to enrich themselves as rigorous oversight. Your time is [inaudible] of one of the largest corporate bailouts in american history. It will be particularly intense because this president has already fired multiple inspectors general, and because he couldnt tolerate any criticism, and you will however have the chance to defend your independence and integrity by your actions if you stick to the commitments that you have made here and you are an aggressive watchdog. And i am prepared to work with you. Thank you. I would like to work with you even if you dont vote for my confirmation as you indicated yesterday. We will now move to senator tellis. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being there. I regret that its under these difficult circumstances. Mr. Miller, in response to some of senator toomeys questions were senator kennedys questions, on the one hand we have people questioning your independence under the weight and pressure of an administration, but you investigate it to someone who is appointed by president bush, you yourself were appointed by president bush. That investigation didnt change one bit regardless of the pressure that you got on capitol hill and others. What is the ultimate disposition of the person . She was asked to resign, senator. Earlier Ranking Member brown characterized one of the writings as something that seemed to question your commitment and the response you said was a mischaracterization of what you wrote. Would you mind going back to that very briefly . My concern was inspectors generals are independent of both of the executive branch and the congressional branch. My concern with the article is they need to understand that they are also independent of undue pressure from the congress. And that is the just of the article. In fact i said in the article but it is fundamental for an Inspector General to be and independent. You investigated someone who was put forth by president bush. You were put forth by president bush and continued in spite of the pressure that you were getting at capitol hill and others do not change one word of the report and it ultimately resulted in the removal of the person from the position. That sounds like a pretty good case history but i guess others may have a different view. Operationally, did you think that the tide here perco is going to be sufficient time . Im going to do my time to work myself out of a job. I believe that we need effective oversight. I do know that there are a lot of oversight instruments in organizations that will be providing oversight. If we can do this within five years, i would like to do that. But its too early to tell whether it is the right amount of time. I have confidence that you will go about this and hold anybody accountable that tries to carry you off of what is right. Is there such a thing as good fraud and bad fraud . I would think that any fraud is bad. I appreciate the time you spent on the phone with me yesterday. And i asked you if they were committed to taking a look at all the benefactors of the program has come under the act. You looked through the simple lens of why the taxpayer dollars that were sent out in good faith to help us recover during this virus response inappropriately allocated because of fraud. I want you to go after the big businesses, Small Businesses and everybody in between that they have taken advantage of this program. I hope that we will not have members on the other side of the aisle that will come up with a concept of good fraud and justice because in my opinion, fraud is fraud so i look forward to support her nomination. We have had some time to digest the act and other things we need to do to adjust it in the tape to debate the paycheck protection program. Is there anything we should be thinking about moving forward as we make may be changing deadlines, can you think of anything else that would be within the firm . Yes, senator that is a great question. You eluded to the act that already provided tremendous support to help the market and the borrowers. First of all as you know it is provided up to a year of forbearance and it provided a foreclosure moratorium. This is an evolving situation and one that we are continuing to monitor on a daytoday basis and in realtime and datadriven approach to provide any assistance and flexibility, but i think that what should we think of as the next phase could always appreciate assistance in providing flexibility across the offices in order to get any other assistance congress is considering as quickly as possible. So, i would be happy to work with you on that objective. And i can think of the other things we are going to have to take a look at. So i look forward to getting your input. Congratulations and happy birthday to your little girl tomorrow. Thank you. Next is senator warner. The questions asked ive been in the Intelligence Committee the last couple of hours. I want to start with mr. Miller on the subject. Some of my colleagues may have asked the question but since this is some thing i was intimately involved in, and i hope i dont look as you load to the rest of my colleagues as i do on the screen. This isnt a case of full on john this yet. [laughter] this looks pretty awful. But you know, having been pretty familiar with Michael Atkinson and his actions in regards to trying to protect the whistleblowers and the president s engagement with the ukrainian president , and you having been involved as an ig in the white House Counsel, based on any personal knowledge that you may have, or anything that you have seen in the record, is there any indication to you that he wasnt performing his duties appropriately as the Inspector General for the committee . Senator, mr. Atkinson was in an ig position but it was a specialized ig physician and its governed by the statute governing national intelligence. I am just not familiar with the fact or the law on the situation, so im reluctant to give an opinion where i dont have all the facts. There was nothing that for a decade they were in the white House Counsel. Was there anything even based on secondary, secondhand knowledge that was any kind of evidence Michael Atkinson was not performing his duties for the ig . Senator, i dont have all the facts. Unfortunately mr. Atkinson was fired for doing his job and regardless of the president legal authority, what kind of effect does the president even with legal authority, what kind of effect does it have on the Inspector General committee if the president is simply firing people because the results of their activities lead to substantive results he doesnt like where obviously in the case of the whistleblowers complained and in the case of ukraine or the more recent dismissal of the Inspector Generals over at hhs in terms of doing their work what kind of effect does this have . My experience is that always faces thitalways faces the possy that they may be fired. They may be fired for whatever reason as long as the president gives them in writing so you just have to do your job and what the consequenceletthe consy may be but you should never be afraid of stating the truth and if you have to be fired, you are fired. But you always have to be prepared at least to walk away from your job. That goes with the territory of being in Inspector General. So you have no concerns from the standpoint of the Inspector General community and they would be taking on the position that it appears the president doesnt like igs and doesnt like oversight is generally number three we are talking about an area where theres a huge distribution of funds. It seems to me that this record based upon the substantive results of the work differing from the president s positions would be something that would cause consternation. I see that my time is about up but i would like to also set some questions for the record in terms of how we are going to deal with these issues Going Forward and the possible need of a liquidity. I think the fed is interested to make sure we dont have a major disruption in the housing market. Thank you for my time. You will be able to submit questions at the end. But these will be may 7. I will repeat that at the end of the hearing. Senator kaufman has also given me a letter he was at that intelligence hearing as well and has been unable to get to the hearing and he also looks forward to set knitting questions and also wants a conversation with you in person. You can expect to have that conversation. The next is senator cortez mas masco. Good afternoon everyone. I want to congratulate both of you and your nomination. When i talk to you on the phone, as you know, in nevada we were saluted by the financial crisis that during the time i saw peoples homes taken, they took them into foreclosure and there was a forging of documents. September of 2017, the office of Inspector General issued a report entitled they didnt have adequate control to ensure servicers properly engaged in lost medication. Now fast forward to where we are today. Last week the office of the Inspector General published another report on the review of 30 fha service or website and the report Found Service and website provided incomplete, inconsistent data and guidance related to the forbearance option under the secure act. Servicers should not be providing this type of misinformation and misconduct by worked so hard, many of us did, too correct and prevent and we are seeinit weare seeing it aga. My question to you, how would you ensure that they provide clear guidance to homeowners and the type of conduct on occurring during this crisis . I appreciate the question. This is a very important issue to me and i want to start by saying first of all, fraud at any level should never be tolerated and i think we learned a lot following the financial crisis. To your point specifically, about ensuring that servicers are communicating the right policies to home owners, that is also a priority. Again, this can be a confusing time and uncertain time and if confirmed, i would do whatever i can to ensure there is as much clarity as possible. In particular, i know currently they are working with the cfp b. To provide a source of information to borrowers. This is something we have to monitor and we want to make sure the programs are working as they are defined. You mentioned your required to provide forbearance as well as lost medication if they are required to follow certain policies of the fha. Again, if confirmed this is something i planned to take a look at and keep a close eye on. Ii am already hearing anecdotally some stories about what the servicers are telling them some with me ask you this. Are you also willing to take a look at the oversight of the servicers by inappropriate reviews of companies and talking with borrowers. That is the only way we will stop the conduct by servicers. Senator, i will take a look at any data that is presented to me as you know, they had a lot of enforcement fools available. I believe in strong and clear enforcement. Its another important objecti objective. I dont mean to cut you off by only have so much time. You should be able to access this information and that is what im looking for. Im hopeful that we can assure we are addressing the issue and i think we all know i will start with that. We need to make sure that we are accessing the information. I hope that we are able to do so. Let me address mr. Miller. Theres no doubt in my mind we are very impressed by your background and resume and you can tell from all the conversation my colleagues are asking you is if you illustration but its not that this president isnt saying this overtly. I will be the oversight. Hes very clear about it. Let me ask you if the white house or agency asks you to withhold information, would you notify the congress immediately of this request . If they allow preference to state for political gain, would you consider that a violation and report it immediately to congress lacks i didnt hear all of your question. Im sorry. If the white house wanted the treasury to show preference for the states and political gain. Prior to allocating the financing would you consider that a violation and report it immediately . It does sound like it could be. Did you plan to gain a president ial approval before investigating the contract or communicating with congress lacks no, senator. Most of the questions have been asked if this is such an important issue. During rightbrace so many there are still too many suffering and we are looking for people to stand up and do the right thing. So, i appreciate your willingness to work on this administration with everything that is going on, but we are going to hold you accountable. At the end of the day i am hopeful that i can work with both of you that we are going to ask the tough question and i am not going to let up. Its too important that we address what is happening across the country. So thank you again. Thank you. Senator jones. Thank you mr. Chairman. I hope everybody can hear me. Thank you for the phone all the other day. I want to ask some questions that require an answer of an honesty will one to ten with zero being no respect and ten being unshakable respect, how would you rate president bushs respect for the independence of the Inspector Generals . Senators, i am not comfortable evaluating the president s performance, whether it is past president s or the current president. You acknowledge this president has a few that is so far less than president bush or president obama even though theyve let it go. Can you at least acknowledge because you told me the other day that it would be a challenge working for President Trump. Can you at least acknowledge that. This is going to be a demanding position. There is no question about that and i will go with the fact is the president and the administration dont like. I will say t see them anyway. I appreciate that, by key. So when chandler, you have create records and experiences. I served with you but ive heard so much about this when the fact is this president is harder to challenge and i think everybody recognizes that and i would hope to see some acknowledgment of that from you, a little bit more than we have today because thats really kind of shows the independence. You did mention the night there with the occasions where you would either resign or walk away. Are there other ways to push back on a president that is trying to influence the independence of an Inspector General than just walking away from the job in frustration . I will do my job as the Inspector General and sometimes that involves working with Administration Officials to come them that they should change the program or allows you to get information. Thats part of leadership and experience, both of which i have and i would like to use as the general to avoid these conflicts. Its been more than one time that i had to investigate and make an adverse report and face tough criticism not just with the one administrator that was removed, but with major contractors and even political appointees in both administrations. In any of those administrations did you work on the white House Counsel for those administrations . Did i work as a lawyer . Were you in the counsel for the administration and then become an inspectobecoming inspe you are leaving too now . I have not, but president obama since my conversation yesterday i went back and refreshed my recollection. But he appointed to the Supreme Court and shed been in a political position in his administration in the white house. I appreciate that. I was hoping to get a little bit more from you but its okay. I know about her history. I was just trying to help out a little bit and establish when you said youre going to be independent its harder than any other Inspector General, but my time is running out. Id appreciate your being here and being willing to serve. I really do and i hope that they wilyouwill be as tough and indet as you say that to some extent your history says. I would like to get a question over to ms. Wade. I was disappointed not to sue your boss wearing his university of alabama mask. I thought that it would be good for the committee this morning. But, i would like to ask about the proposed rule for the disparate impact that theyve now published, and im very concerned about the rule and how it is going to in my view make it almost impossible to bring this commission complaints. Are you familiar with that whole entity you have an opinion about it . Senator, i appreciate the question, and i understand secretary carson had already addressed this. Its my understanding that the intent of the role is to codify the 2015 Supreme Court decision. However, this is not a rule that would be undermine under my dirw as the commissioner. Okay. I still dont think secretary carson interested. I think that he gave an answer, but i certainly cant agree that he addressed it and its consistent. That its consistent. But be that as it may, i will leave from their and i may have some questions for both of these. Thank you mr. Chairman and thank you everybody for participating. Thank you. Senator smith. Thank you, mr. Chairman and Ranking Member brown and thank you to both mr. Miller and mrs. Wade for being able to attend and mr. Miller for the conversation yesterday. I want to try to get a sense of how you see the authority of the special iag and so here is one example. Ive heard from a lot of problems getting the payment most americans were supposed to receive. Minnesotans are calling my office as saying that came and went to the phone bank or a bank account that doesnt exist or people are getting payments based on their 2018 Tax Information even though they filed the 19 return. Some payments were going to dead people. Folks dont know how to return them and this strikes me in the kindest way that is mismanagement that an Inspector General should be looking into. But when ive asked about these problems, but theyve told us is that the constituents should just wait until next year when they filed their return into these issues could be resolved by then but these are folks that are needing that money to pay rent or they could get evicted. My question is if you are confirmed and they would charge you with examining the management can you believe that he would have jurisdiction over looking at how these payments have been made . If it gives me the authority to review how the secretary is administering the programs, certainly i would look about and certainly in the situation that you described, i certainly would be working with the Small Business administration ig and with the socalled Accountability Committee of ig in making sure that they are examining how these programs are being administered and how these payments are being distracte mi. But they do believe that it does give you the authority . It gives me authority under title for the act and certainly the authority to work with the ig individually. One of the lessons that ive learned is to inform task force is to obtain authority and jurisdiction and areas that need to be explored. So, certainly i would try to obtain authority or if necessary to look into those matters, and if i didnt have that authority, i would try to make sure that the iag that has authority is actively and aggressively going after that. My view is that you would wod have the authority and this is the kind of mismanagement we need to look at. But let me ask you another one. Theres been a worry about how the direct recovery is marketing to people experiencing homelessness and so i wrote a letter to the secretary about this asking for Treasury Departmenthe treasurydepartmente sure folks that experience with homelessness can access their payments and i havent heard back. Meanwhile, the irs published some material challenging people that they can sign up online but clearly that isnt going to work. As the special Inspector General to be sure all americans can get access to these payments. Certainly i would like the act to get the money to the people its intended to have the money. Certainly this money is necessary to help average americans during this time and Small Businesses that are being depleted during this time to replace that they would have otherwise gotten. Its like honestly so many of my colleagues are so concerned about this and when he signed the act, the president said by the way, i can say whether or not the Inspector General shares this information with congress and thats why we included this language in the bill, because we wanted to make sure that that it happened. So, this is i think wh white pee are feeling so concerned. We talked about this yesterday. I appreciate you coming and getting on the phone with me and talking about it. I have to say i remain concerned about this. I also just want to say one last thing before we wrap this up. This is focused on for the act is extremely important to me. It has to do with getting the 8 billion in tribal recovery relief to americas tribal governments, including minnesota tribes who are suffering greatly right now. The Navajo Nation in new mexico is another example of one of the worst hotspots in the entire country, and yet we are still waiting for the Treasury Department to release the 8 billion that was appropriated and authorized by congress and the act. In the act. And i just want to draw attention to this. This is unacceptable the Treasury Department had said something today about how they might get it out. The deadline for this was apri april 25. Tribal governments are dealing with a catastrophic loss of revenue. Mr. Miller, these are the kind of challenges that you will have to cope with and holding the Administration Accountable when it isnt doing what the law requires it to do and its why we need such a strong Inspector General so thank you for your willingness. I have a couple of questions for the record and im grateful for your willingness to serve as well. Thank you mr. Chair. Thank you. Senator brown, the Ranking Member, will have the final question. Senator brown. Thank you for all of you this was an unmitigated success during the to the stars who put this together. To mention what was said about tribal governments. With agencieshone saysmorning, and someone pandemic is the great health, tribal africanamericans health, in terms of mortality, life ipectancy is glaring, and hope you will Pay Attention to what senator smith said. A comment to each. I would like to follow up on comments, i never suggested anything inappropriate. I did say under your leadership that omb approved rules that civil lights rights leaders described as being problematic. You said you and enforce the fair housing act, but housing think whatleaders, you did is compromising that. That is concerning. These rules would be devastating to millions of people, especially people of color. How do i square your work with omb with your comments today that you plan to help so many of the same people . Senator, i appreciate your question. I can to everything enforce the nations fair housing laws and find housing discrimination completely unacceptable. Spends a lot of time investigating fair housing complaints. It has an office that is dedicated to investigating and enforcing the nations fair housing laws. Would do what i can to support those efforts. I appreciate that. I take you at your word. Thinking you will do this because at omb you did the opposite, according to people i trust on these issues, including civil rights and housing advocates. Is setting more in concrete, discrimination. Thank you and good luck to you. A followup on an earlier question, you said you would oversee the secretary of treasuries. You did not say anything about the Federal Reserve. Reserve will then trillions of dollars to businesses, so this special ig you have been nominated for, gives you the authority to oversee the the fed Lending Facility and companies that receive loans under these facilities. You said treasury . You have the authority to oversee the fed lending facilities . At this time, looking at the have it is clear, jurisdiction over the actions of the secretary of the treasury, and right now i consider every dollar that goes from treasury through the Federal Reserve to also give me jurisdiction over. He Federal Reserve if i am fortunate enough to be i mightd, analyze that, be knocking on your door to get more explicit authority. Is what we wanted to hear. It is trillions of dollars. One final thing, mr. Chairman, mr. Miller, you have been evasive about your questions about your work in the white house. When asked about what matters you were involved in, not your kground, not the specifics i understand attorneyclient privilege and those issues in government, but they were not asking you specifics on what you did. They were asking you so we understand who you are better. No one wants you to violate privilege. This is a Job Interview in your background is important as to how you will do your job. Unfortunate you did not give us that information in this hearing. Man, thank you. That does conclude the questioning. You taking the time coming here and presenting yourself in these circumstances. Can i say one more thing . Witnessesciate the and chairman wearing masks. I know how strongly governor dewine feels about that in my state, so thank you about that. Our thankso extend to the Recording Studio and rules committee who have worked so closely with us. There was so much work behind the scenes to make this come together. I think it is a success in terms of the technological ability to put this kind of hearing on in these difficult circumstances and do it in a successful way. We want to thank all the workers who prepared and cleaned this room, Law Enforcement officials and all of the others who have can to make sure that we operate and do our jobs in the United States senate Banking Committee. That does conclude the questioning at todays hearing. For senators who want to submit questions for the record, those are due to the committee by thursday, may 7. Nomineesat both respond to these questions by 9 00 a. M. Monday morning, may 11. Again, we thank you for being here in this hearing is adjourned. Mr. Chairman. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] dr. Uncer dr. Fauci and Robert Redfield testified about returning to work in school amid the coronavirus pandemic. Tuesday oncoverage cspan three. On demand cspan. Org, or listen on the go on the free cspan radio app. Because of the coronavirus, the Supreme Court heard oral arguments Via Teleconference this week, challenging the new rules that expand the number of organizations that can file for religious or moral exemptions from the birthcontrol mandate. This is one hour and 40 minutes. The honorable, the chief justice and the associate justices of the Supreme Court of the United States. Yea, all persons having this is before the Supreme Court of the United States are admonished to give their attention as the court is now sitting. God save the United States and this honorable court. We will hear arguments in case 19 431 Little Sisters of the poor v. Pennsylvania in the consolidated case. General francisco. Mr. Chief justice, may it please the court. In 2011, the government required employers to provide Insurance Coverage for all fda approved contraception, including many religious employers who objected to the coverage, sparking years of litigation. Traditions the best of this countrys commitment to religious liberty, the government sought to resolve the issue by promulgating new rules, excepting those employers who objected to the mandate. Those exemptions are lawful for two reasons. First, they are authorized by whichn 13a4 of the aca, requires employers to provide the types of coverage that the health, resources, and services of ais