This hearing will come to order. Since this is our first hybrid hearing, a brief explanation of how it will work will benefit senators and the public. The hearing room has been configured to maintain the recommended 6 foot social distancing between senators. Nominees, and other individuals in the room necessary to operate the hearing, which would have kept to a minimum. A number of senators have chosen to use secure video teleconference technology which will allow them to remotely participate. For those joining by videoconference, once you start speaking they will be a slight delay before you are displayed on the main screen. To minimize that ground noise, we ask senators who are using the videoconference option to please click the mute button until it is your turn to ask questions. If there is a technology issue, we will move to the next senator until that issue is resolved. I remind all senators and the nominees that the fiveminute clock still applies. For senators using the video option, youll notice a screen labeled clock that will show how much time is remaining. At about 30 seconds remaining i will gently tap the gavel to remind senators that their time is almost expired. To simplify the speaking order, senator brown and i have agreed to go by seniority for this first hybrid meeting. Thank you to those of you who are here today, those appearing before us, and those who are keeping the capital some capital complex safe and functioning. The coronavirus, or covid19 pandemic, has challenged our sense of normalcy and it is tested every institution of daily life we know. The crisis has had a major impact on the physical and infant Economic Health of our company and a major response has been required. Congress and the administration have taken bold, dramatic steps to limit the depth of economic shock the country is currently experiencing, and to provide conditions for a quick and robust economic recovery once economic restrictions are lifted. The cares act went into effect just over one month ago, putting needed cash directly into the hands of American Workers and families, providing rapid relief to Small Businesses, helping to stabilize our markets and the economy, and sending a massive new infusion of resources to the front lines of the medical response. Title iv of the cares act, which is unger under the Banking Committee jurisdiction, provides 5 billion in emergency relief to provide liquidity to eligible businesses, states, municipalities, and tribes related to losses incurred as a result of coronavirus. Implement in this title is an important step to supporting the flow of credit in the economy. 2020, the Federal Reserve board and department of treasury announced a new and expanded set of lending programs to provide us 2. 3 trillion in loans. 13. 3 federal all of them, specifically the main Street Lending facility, are crucial components of the strategy to promote aushaped recovery which reinforces the need to have them up and operating, and being is broadly available for as many businesses as possible. Title iv includes robust oversight requirements to ensure the statute is followed, and to protect against waste, fraud, and abuse. The special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery, or sigper , another new federal acronym, will oversee the reporting and auditing requirements of the law. And it is critical that we quickly confirm the nominee so the important work can begin. Will consider, we the nominations the honorable brian miller of virginia to be special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery. And misses dana wade of the District Of Columbia to be assistant secretary for housing and federal housing commissioner at the u. S. Department of housing and urban development. Andome to both of you, congratulations on your nominations to these important positions. Of the cares act establishes the special Inspector General for Pandemic Recovery. The duty of the sigpr is to conduct, supervise, audits of the making, purchase, management, and sale of loans, loan guarantees, and other investments made by the secretary of the treasury under any program established by the secretary under this act. And the management by the secretary of any program established under this act. Mr. Miller is highly qualified for special Inspector General, having served as Inspector General for the special Services Administration for nearly a decade. The Senate Confirmed mr. Miller for that position in 2005 via voice vote, a position he held for nearly 10 years. In that role mr. Miller lead more than 300 auditors, special agents, attorneys, and support staff in conducting nationwide audits and investigations, and reported on fraud, waste, and abuse. Outspoken on the need for Inspector Generals to have independence, and to have access to information, and im confident he will carry out the responsibilities and mission of this position diligently, independently, and objectively. During a Senate JudiciaryCommittee Hearing in 2015, mr. Miller noted, in order to have effective oversight, an i. G. Must have independence to conduct an independent investigation. This includes determining what information is needed. It is the judgment of the i. G. Conducting the investigation that matters, not the judgment of the agency being investigated. I encourage my colleagues to support mr. Millers nomination so he can begin this vital oversight role. E, sheg to mrs. Dana wad is wellprepared to take over the reins of the federal housing and ministration. She is familiar to the task, having operated as federal commissioner and assistant secretary for the office of housing. As acting commissioner, she directly managed faas portfolio single family, multifamily, and health care insurance. Section eight project rental assistance, the office of manufactured housing, and over 2400 personnel agencywide. Recorddes extensive also includes service as Senior Advisor to secretary ben carson, deputy staff director to this committee, and a Senate Appropriations committee, and as associate director at the office of management and budget, where she led all housingrelated issues and supervised hud, among other agencies. Great leadership will be required at fha during this unprecedented time of strain on both homeownership and rental markets. In the wake of covid19, we have already seen over 10 of fha borrowers enter mortgage forbearance. Fha insured Health Care Facilities feel soonest constrain and many fha assisted landlords struggle to make ends meet while countless renters are unsure where their next rent payment will come from. Will beonths ahead, fha on the front lines helping many families get back on their feet and providing muchneeded the quiddity throughout the Housing Finance system. Im confident that mrs. Wade will provide exactly the type of leadership that is needed during this critical time, as commissioner montgomery has done. I encourage my colleagues to support mrs. Wades nomination, as well as to confirm Brian Montgomery as deputy secretary, so we can best position hud to tackle the challenges ahead. Congratulations again to each of you on your nominations, and i thank you and your families for your willingness to serve. Senator brown . Sen. Brown i would like to say thank you to staff, the sergeant at arms, the architect of the capitol, the office of the attending physician, the recording studio, this is a team effort. Working so hard the last couple of weeks to try to make these hearings as safe as possible, including by using technology for members to join these hearings remotely. Parties, maybeh even a majority of the committee are believed, has decided to join us this way. I want to thank Capitol Police and all other senate staff and contractors who worked to mixer the Senate Continues to run. I want to thank chairman crapo and his staff, thanks to laura in my office, and greg, the staff director, and cameron, for working together to provide that option for senators to join. It is the right thing to do, that we can all do what we think is best to keep ourselves and people who work here safe. I am concerned, however, mr. Chairman, at the reckless decision by leader Mitch Mcconnell to open the senate to session despite ongoing emergency stayathome orders all over the country, including in my state of ohio, governor dewine, including in washington dc, including senator van hollen of maryland and virginia. Leader mcconnells actions are forcing capital complex workers, contract workers like the cleaning staff, who just cleaned this hearing room and will clean again when we are done, and Food Service Workers who just served the Republican Caucus lunch, that they are here working and it is going against Public Health authoritys advice, and they put themselves at risk to come to work. Most of those workers, unlike all of us who probably come to the capital from a nearby apartment or condo, or we come in cars, most of these workers come by bus and subway. And they put themselves at risk, creating more anxiety for their families. Mcconnells decision was reckless and unfair, especially to those employees. Agendaound that, the this week does not include assistance for the unemployed. I appreciated chairman crapos comments about how many renters are living on the edge. And thiso support, week that we can see from senator mcconnell, no attempts to support Community Health services. These are issues the senate should be taking on right now. I want to congratulate the nominees, thank them for their willingness to serve. This is probably not the confirmation hearing that each of you had hoped for. I want to thank your families who i assume are watching from home. Special injector Inspector General will oversee the cares act lending and investment programs that were designed to stabilize our economy and get help to communities and Small Businesses hurting so much during this pandemic. This lending will be critical to restarting our economy to begin the recovery. The fha faces an Affordable Housing crisis made even worse by this pandemic. Stability and the future of millions of families are on the line, as congress and the and ministration responded to this wills, if confirmed he serve impositions crucial implementing the policy response to the pandemic. This committee has oversight over the treasury and Federal Reserve loan programs. That is why i fought for this office and the special Inspector General for Pandemic Response. To makeican people need sure the 500 billion of taxpayer money provided under this act, and the 4 trillion the Federal Reserve will lend, that actually goes to support workers and communities and businesses. Because the act grants the treasury secretary discretion over who gets these loans, and on what terms. Special Inspector General needs look at all. We have seen how the Small Business loans so far went to Big Companies and important clients of wall street banks, while Community Banks and credit on maintheir customers street and underserved communities waited and waited and waited. Most of us have heard the frustration from restaurants and barber shops and cafes and so many other Small Businesses in our state that are facing impossible conditions right now. They spend hours on the phone trying to talk to someone about a loan. They have either been turned down or cannot get answers, while wellconnected franchises go to the front of the line. That is something unacceptable. We cannot let the same thing happened by these loans. Yes, a loan should be a lesson to congress as we consider additional recovery measures, and a lesson to the special Inspector General. In addition to these concerns, President Trump has shown outright hostility toward anyone who tries to hold him accountable to the American People whom he serves. Special hostility towards inspectors general. I think mr. Miller realizes that. The president removed the acting i. G. Who was set to become chairman of the Pandemic Response. He fired the Intelligence Committee i. G. Last friday. Friday he replaced the acting health and Human Services i. G. All these professionals are simply doing their jobs, and the exposed misconduct in the administration. That is what their jobs are. The last 20 years we found only one i. G. Candidate was nominated while serving in the white House Counsel. They resign, one for politicizing the office, the other for a lack of independence. Not a great track record when a president appoints a lawyer in his office in the white house to be in Inspector General that oversees and examines white house behavior. We passed the cares act to support our economy by helping workers, businesses, state and local governments, and nonprofit. We cannot tolerate businesses and their workers suffering to protect the president , protect his family, protect his allies, because of corruption, misuse, and favoritism. Mr. Miller, if you are confirmed i expect you to follow the letter and spirit of the law and work for the American People, not President Trump. As Inspector General, you must be willing to stand up to the administration and any other bad actor and uphold the laws. Anything less is totally on accessible. While mr. Miller is the only nominee before us today with Pandemic Response in his title, make no mistake, the fha and the office of housing will be on the frontlines of our nations response as well. Providesimes, fha access to affordable homeownership for millions of families. When the economy slows, the fha is expected to step up to meet the needs of more households and keep the Mortgage Market working, even as others in the market retreat. During the 2008 financial crisis, economists estimated they prevented a 25 decline in housing classes and the loss of an additional 3 million jobs. Quite a responsibility and a performance. Fhas decisions will determine whether families can remain in their homes, or whether Community Space and foreclosure crisis on top of republicans crisis. It will help determine whether the burden is like the 2008 crisis, is felt most heavily in communities of color, exacerbates economic inequality, or whether we will do oversight to provide equitable recovery to support housing in the hands of homeowners in communities rather than wall street investors. Citizens of the ousting of tossing will determine whether policies in funding are in place to keep the lowest income seniors, persons with disability, people in hud financed health facilities, to keep them safe. Over the past three years the ministration has tried to gut funding to housing and community developing programs. They rolled back housing protections and other civil rights protections. They have undermined the safety of manufacturing housing residents. They have tried to make housing harder to maintain. Clear she will make will fight alongside us to reverse that trend. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and thank you again for being the first in the senate to do a hearing like this. Thank you. Sen. Crapo thank you. I will now administer the oath. Would both of our witnesses stand and raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you got . You god . I do. Sen. Crapo thank you. You may sit down. Your written statements will be made a part of the record in their entirety. Usually at this time we give you a chance to introduce your family. We will thank them on your behalf, since we are keeping the number of people in the hearing room to a minimum. With that, i would like to invite you to proceed. Mr. Miller, would you please begin . Mr. Miller thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank the chairman and Ranking Member for having this hearing. I would like to thank President Trump for nominating me. Most of all, i want to thank my wife and family for their encouragement and continued Public Service, especially in such a demanding job. Thank you. I have been fortunate to have a long career in Public Service that has prepared me well for this position. I have close to 30 years of experience in the federal government. 15 years in the department of justice, and nearly 10 years as a Senate ConfirmedInspector General at the general Services Administration, serving across both republican and democratic ministration. I have also served as an independent corporate monitor and practice law in the areas of ethics and compliance, government contracts, and internal investigations. Humbled by the letters of support i have received in such a short time period, during a time of a pandemic. I am deeply grateful for those who signed from all varieties of political stripes. From former officials in the obama, bush, and clinton administrations. I would like to think of them, and i would like them to know that i will always endeavor to be the man they described in their letters. If confirmed, i will conduct every audit and investigation with fairness and impartiality. I will be vigilant to protect the integrity and independence of the office of special Inspector General. I pledge to seek the truth in all matters that come before me, and to use my authority and resources to uncover fraud, waste, and abuse. I stand ready to answer any questions. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Sen. Crapo thank you. Mrs. Wade. Mrs. Wade thank you. Chairman crapo, Ranking Member brown, and members of this committee, thank you for inviting me here to testify today as a nominee for federal housing commissioner, and assistant secretary for housing at the department of housing and urban development. I also want to thank President Trump for the privilege of being nominated for this position. Honor to be here after serving as a staff member of this committee, and spending a good part of my career working for senator shelby on both the banking and appropriations committee. Im extremely grateful for him for such opportunities. I am also very thankful for the love and support of my wonderful family. I regret that both my husband chris and my daughter mary, as well as my niece eva, could be here not in person but only in spirit. But i would like to wish my daughter mary a happy birthday. She turns six years old tomorrow. As i look around this hearing room, i see the senate continuing the peoples work, but under very different circumstances. If confirmed, i will commit to doing everything i can ask fha commissioner to help the country emerge from the covid19 pandemic healthier, stronger, and with a more prosperous economy. Never has it been more clear than today that hud and fha play critical roles in our nations safety net. Secretary carson and the dedicated staff at hud are working tirelessly to minimize minimize the impact of covid19 on renters, homeowners, and vulnerable populations that hud serves every day. We are grateful for the hard work and bipartisan commitment of this committee and congress in passing legislation that safeguards american families, communities, and the economy from this terrible virus. I joined Public Service in the midst of a different crisis, the financial crisis of 2008, during which i gained valuable experience i believe will serve me well if confirmed. I learned that during times like these, it is important to make sure assistance quickly reaches those in need, and that we maximize the effectiveness of every federal dollar. I have been a Staff Committee of the budget, banking, and appropriations committees, as well as an associate director of the office of management and budget. I have also been the acting head of fha and huds office of housing, where i implemented reforms that better managed risk, builtup capital, and provided Greater Transparency to the public. If confirmed, my priorities for fha and the office of housing would be as follows. First, given this unprecedented situation and global pandemic, protecting current fha homeowners and renters. I know i do not have to tell this committee, fha homeowners are low to moderate income, first time, and minority borrowers. Assistedof these hud homeowners and renters are experiencing covidrelated hardships through no fault of their own. Second, i would ensure that fha has the necessary staffing and resources, as well as considering the modernization effort which will allow fha to perform its important Counter Cyclical role to put to support the housing market. Third, i will be judge and i will vigilantly monitor losses from covid19 and protect fhas capital reserve to the maximum extent possible. I i believe that fha has a duty to support the Nations Housing market and homeowners facing economic hardship. While the virus will pass, and the economy will eventually regain its previous strength, the road to recovery will require our sustained efforts. If confirmed, i will do all that i can to run a strong and sustainable fha, one that serves homeowners, renters, and taxpayers well. I am committed to working with this committee and with congress, and i look forward to answering your questions today. Thank you. Sen. Crapo thank you, mrs. Wade. I will begin my questioning with you, mr. Miller. As you heard, and i am sure you were aware before you even arrived here today, one of the big criticisms of you is that you will not be independent, because you come from the white house, or had service in the white house. As you know, independence of sigpr is critical under title iv in the cares act. Can you talk about the importance of sigpr maintaining its independence, how you have demonstrated your independence in the past, and how you expect to act if confirmed to this position . Mr. Miller thank you for the question. I think independence is vital for the effective operation of any Inspector General, and i have said that for not just now, but for many years. I served for 10 years as Inspector General of the general Services Administration, and at every point i had to fight for independence to perform audits and investigations objectively, fairly, and independently. And i met with resistance throughout my 10 years as Inspector General. Investigations of major contractors, much to the chagrin of people in leadership positions at the gfa, and i daresay, in congress. And i received criticism for that. Right,ely, i was proven the audits were correct and accurate, and we provided effective oversight and leadership. I believe that my 10 year as Inspector General at gsa also helped gsa to become a better agency. I think the hardworking men and women of my office at that time provided a great service. I think that oversight is essential for the effective operation of all programs, and especially now with the Pandemic Recovery. Its vital that this money goes to the Small Businesses and hardworking americans that need the money right now, and we cant afford to have it diverted andraud, waste, and abuse, diverted to the pockets of those who would scheme to fraud the government and take that money out of their pockets. So, its vital to have an independent, effective Inspector General. Sen. Crapo thank you. Mrs. Wade, in the months ahead the fha will be on the frontlines providing muchneeded liquidity throughout the Housing Finance system. As a former acting commissioner, you understand fhas Important Role to consumers, taxpayers, are Housing Finance system. We are involved with ongoing efforts to impotently cares act provisions related to housing, specifically for forbearance relief, as well as restrictions on foreclosures and evictions. Will you work with us to implement these provisions and ensure the options available when exiting forbearance are clear for consumers to understand, and straightforward for services of fha mortgages to a minister . Administer. Es to mrs. Wade yes. We are obvious he facing an Unprecedented Health crisis and it is incredibly important to protect homeowners and renters through no fault of their own who are experiencing covidrelated hardships. A can also be avery be infusing time. It is important to provide as much clarity as possible, and as much certainty from fha as possible in fulfilling its countercyclical duty. Sen. Crapo many of our facilities at the frontlines of the battle against covid19 are financed in part through fha 242 programs. Can you speak quickly, about 45 second, to f. H. A. s role in the Health Care Economy and some of the challenges they face . Mrs. Wade yes, again, mr. Chairman, that is a very portant part of the f. H. A. Portfolio. No one should be concerned except serving those who are covid19 patients in need and protecting the health and safety of their employees. Healthve now in f. H. A. s care portfolio, its a time we need to provide maximum flexibility and to that i know f. H. A. Has already taken action to allow these Health Care Facilities to access things like their resembings and it is important to work each and every day with the operators of these facilities in order to sustain eir mention and f. H. A. As mortgage insurer and make sure they can appropriate operate during this time. Senator crapo thank you. Senator brown . Senator brown your daughters 6th birthday. My grand daughter just celebrated last month. Mrs. Wade, youre responsible for overseeing hud and other federal agent sis for o. M. D. , correct, right . Mrs. Wade that is correct. Under your leadership, omplets m. B. Approved two rules that happened undermine the federal housing act. A rule that would cost the federal government more money, displace more than 60,000 children. Given that i dont see how we can trust you to make sure hud s privating an equitable recovery plan. Mr. Miller, two years ago you wrote an article criticizing congress for telling Inspector Generals to investigate the trump administration. Four months later, President Trump gave you a job in the counsels office at the white house. Now the senator considers an appointment to the white house will be responsible for, along among other things, investigating the frump administration, exactly what you criticized. I still have concerns about how this administration treats i. G. s that simile do their job. Heres a rebound. Example from friday. The president , after unfairing smearing her, removeded chrissy graham, the acting i. G. Mr. Miller, you can establish your independence right now in front of this hearing. Can you tell this committee that it was wrong for the president of the United States to remove mrs. Graham for doing her job and holding the Administration Accountable . Mr. Miller senator, first of all, id like to say they wrote an article defending the independence of in thors general. Im always concerned that in thors general remain independent from any influence, whether from the executive or the legislative branch, so i dont think that youre fairly characterizing my article and ill feel very strongly that i. G. Should be consistent should report the facts as they see them, as they finds them and not to bend them to any influence whatsoever. Senator brown i appreciate your response. Was it wrong to we only have five minutes. Was it wrong for the president to remove mrs. Graham for doing her job . Mr. Miller senator, im not here to assess nose sturemeds of action. Im here to tell you about my background, my qualifications for this position. Senator brown i understand that. I understand that, mr. Miller, but there is a skepticism when its not then . General practice that the president of the United States nominates somebody for a job in important as in thor general who came out of the white house and you have a bar you need to get over to demonstrate your independence. Let me ask you another question. Will you view your job expansively to the fullest extent provided by law so you dont just go after little companies but look at all misconduct, even when the evidence of wrongdoing could either upset individuals in the administration or their preferred narrative . Senator mr. Miller absolutely, senator. Senator brown i appreciates that the concern about conflict and your independence should be obvious. Last question, the cares act gives the treasury secretary ntrol of 500 billion of taxpayer money. Do you agree that the special i. G. For Pandemic Response has a responsibility to look at how all of those funds are districted, whether by treasury or the freshman reserve . Mr. Miller senator, the special i. G. Has responsibility for the programs administered by the secretary of treasury. I will do that faithfully, fairly and impartially. Independently. Senator brown all right, through, mr. Chairman. Senator crapo thank you, chairman crapo. You spent a lot of time here, bjorking as a very important member of the statue then on the appropriations statue and then you went on to greater things and youve been normal named to a very serious, a very important position. You have the education. Be it under graduate agree from degree from georgetown, economics agree from wharton. I have the you have the experience. Im here to support you. Mr. Chairman, i ask unanimous consent that my written support of this nominee be made a part of the record. Without objection. I believe wherever you go but especially at hud to be the Deputy Director on housing, you carry a lot of experience, a lot of good judgments and they can use you over there and you can serve the mesh people well. You have in the past and i predict you will in the future. I believe you will be confirmed. I believe im here to say that i support you without any reservation. I know you, i have worked with you. Most of the members of the committee worked with you. We have a lot of respect for you and gods speed. We will need a vote on it as soon as we can, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you. Senator shelby. Senator reid . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Ill wait a moment to inensure i can be heard. I want to follow up on a question that senators brown presented because the independence of the in thor general is absolutely critical and the behaviors weve seen in the white house and also other areas suggest that theres a disregard to the i understand of the in thor general and while you where there, particularly in the context of the impeachment proceedings, the general counsels office completely dismissed any request for cooperation by the congress and the constitutional duty we had. You yourself wrote a letter that the general counsel at the white house is not planning to respond separately, i. E. , take a hike. That doesnt suggest independence. That suggests that youd be beholding to the white house, not where i will critical of the whoufments could would you like to respond . Senator, i mr. R do so. Ve no hesitancy to i think you urn characterized answered the letter. I was just answering the mail. The hope is that you just wont be answering the mail. Let me turn to another issue, a more technical issue. Title iv thorough rises are in thor secretary to require warrants in some of the rules. Ng it oakos some of the work i did in 2008 where we did have warrants and after the fact realized about 10 billion of the taxpayers of the United States those warrants. If confirmed, can you explain what are the warrants we have that are appropriately executed for the taxpayers . There are ways to write warrants so that the natural potential is not realized. Can you give us an indication of what you will do . Mr. Miller i will have to study that more carefully but i will analyze all of the ramifications of these programs. Is someone taking advantage of the system or selfdealing, i would like to know that and report on that so i will analyze careful nsactions very li, obtain information about them and if necessary s p the information if i cant subpoena the information if i cant get it otherwise. Thank you very much. In the last several years, the 2021 budget he sent out a budget that would zpeero out the Capital Funding fund and zero dollars for the home program. If we had followed that advice, where would we be today in terms of the crisis were facing . Mrs. Wade this administration has provided unprecedented support who vulnerable populations to who need it. Through the cares act assistance. It is incredibly important to continue to focus and do everything that west coast to keep those hudassisted homeowners and renters in their home to provide, again, the maximum fleblets, to provide stay in enable them to eir home and enable favre to mitigate risk. I believe that this is an evolving situation. I think were all ready to use whatever tools at our disposal in order to help borrows and renters and i look forward to working with congress on nose objectives. Just a nine point. My assassination would be had we zeroed out those programs, the situation we see today in which were trying to stabilize the housing for so many people would have been much, much worse and i hope that going forward, not just in terms of kneels special bills like the cares act, the routine budgets, you will advocate for strong funding for all these programs. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Senator toomey . Thank you very much, mr. Chairman and thank you for our wbs today and thanks for your willingness to serve. I appreciate that both of you bring a wealth of experience to your respective roles and i am pleased with that fact. Mr. Miller, let me start with you. First of all, i appreciate our conversation earlier where we discussed your role, should you be confirmed but id like to go back to this issue. Severing several of my colleagues now have questioned your willingness to be independent of the administration and seems to me that theres some history here that may be worth a little bit of elaboration. You made a passing reference to it but in a prior role when you were the i. G. At the g. S. A. Under a republican administration, i believe, you conducted what seems like a very nor and ended up in a way being, i suppose, antagonistic in the sense that there was wrongdoing and you pursued it. So could you tell us a little bit about that . Because i think a persons History Speaks louder than anything else. Mr. Miller thank you, senator, for the question. There were a number of instances where i investigated individuals and companies and melt with resistance at every turn. At one point i had to investigate the administrator herself, a bush pointee, as i was. And we very aggressively investigated her and found that she steerped a contract to a friend for 20,000 a month and it ended up in herings. She ended up calling me a terrorist and i had just come off from the u. S. Attorneys office, where i prosecuted tourists, including ms. Howie. So she publicly called me a terrorist, she wrote memory randa to regional administrators asking her to help her fight the i. G. , me, and various members of Congress Called on the president to fire me. Later on the president did ask for her resignation. There were a number of other incidents as well that came up that i had to investigate and it was very difficult to do so. I had to fight for the offices offices effectiveness through maintaining independence hiring process. At one point there was a freeze put on my hiring ability to hire anyone. There were budget cuts. There were all sorts of ways to try and hinder the independence and effectiveness of the in thor general. But i worked through it all, i insisted on being independent and never compromising the facts or the truth and i made those reports public. Later on i investigated a conference. That was all during the Bush Administration. During the obama administration, i investigated a conference in las vegas and during that investigation i had political appointees asking me to stop that investigation, asking me not to accomplish a report. I publish a report. I had political appointees call me up and say why do you have to make this public . Just give it privately and never let anyone know. Of course, i did not follow that advice. I was not moved by that pressure. I went ahead, reported the facts and you all know about it. But i do think that the agency itself is much better as a result and i think that every program and operation is better as a result of oversight. I would add that after i left and was trying to start a law practice. Michael horowitz, the i. G. At department of justice had some difficulty having access to information and there was a hearing before the Senate Judiciary committee. Michael called me and talked to me about it and asked me to come and testify. I did testify at that hearing and im grateful for the chairman for quoting part of my it will at that hearing. Thank you, and one more last question for mr. Miller. As one of the two senate deg knees to the congressional over right deg designees to the congressional oversight commission, we might have some similar responsibilities and i wonder if you could just share with us your thoughts on the differences between our respective sfonlts, that of the commission versus the Inspector General, how that might be deadline yailted. Any thoughts you have on that. Mr. Miller yes, senator and i hope, if the Senate Confirms me, we get to Work Together on that. I would like to work very cooperatively with the commission and the g. A. O. And the voirls i. G. s themselves. Itching that delinyamented the responsibilities so that there is not overlamb would be important. We dont want to waste precious federal resources so we want to make sure we know what each other is doing and how we can complement each other rather than work against each other or dupely indicate each others actions. All of that would be very important in that respect. I dont want to presume my confirmation but i took the opportunity to contact Michael Horowitz and the vials char of the pract. Jean at s. B. O. , the new exactive director to see how we can Work Together and delineate our roles and de conflict where there may be differences. It would be vital to cheryl information and im trying to i would like to have the opportunity to work on an informationsharing program in i. T. So that theres realtime access to information. Senator menendez . I want to take a minute to reflect on the enormity of the situation before us. If weve learned anything from this crisis, if weve learned anything about how staying at home can flatten the curve and keep our families and our communities safe is that housing is health care. Americans shouldnt have to fear being thrown out on the street if they miss their next rent or mortgage payment and when the protections in the cares act runs out, we could be facing a foreclosure crisis even greater than the one we failsed during the Great Recession. We can stop that if we want to. All it takes is for this committee to marshal the resources of the federal government and we can make sure that every american has a same and healthy place to call home. In that vein, we saw during the Great Recession how f. H. A. Stepped into the markets when private legenders were unwilling or unable to do so. If confirmed, will you commit to making sure favre plays a strong Counter Cyclical role in the market to help finance a home . Mrs. Wade yes, senator, and first of all id like to thank you for commenting on the gravity of the situation and i believe that this is integral. Providing and performing counter yclical support is integral to f. H. A. s mission. It is incredibly important that f. H. A. Stay open for business and do everything it can to promote market stability during this time. What specific actions would you be looking if confirmed to take in the next six months to further that end . Mrs. Wade that is a great question. And again, maintaining f. H. A. s operation and doing things that will allow consumers to continue to access credit, such as i. T. Modernization, which has really streamlined the process for obtaining credit. Other organizational goals to help favre to operate on a daily basis. I think implementing the cares act and future assistance packages will also be incredibly important for favre and if confirmed i will do everything i can to expeditiously get any cares act or Additional Support to those who need it the most. Well be looking forward to that upon your confirmation. Mr. Miller, would you agree that independence is among the most important qualities for an in thor general . I do, yes. If someone from the white house calls to you discuss the recovery, would you take the call . Yes or no . Mr. Miller if someone from the press, did you say . The president or someone from the white house calls to you discuss the recovery, would you take that call . Mr. Miller i dont think i would receive such a call but it depends on what the call is about. I will not be pressured to not perform an audit or an organization but its hard to say if i dont know what the call is about. If secretary mnuchin wants to explain why Certain Companies received assistance under the cares act, do you any its appropriate to take his call . Mr. Miller i think its appropriate to know why hes making such determinations and if he wants to explain it himself, i would think that my office would like to listen. Whether i sit in on that meeting or not, its something id have to decide on but sermon we want to know why they areed a ministering programs in the way that they are. I think theres a difference when youre generating those questions to them than when theyre trying to weigh in as to why theyve acted in ways that may or may not be within the laws context. You were in the white houses counsels office when the president decided to ternl name Intelligence Community in thor at kinison. Is that correct . Yes. Did you play any role in that decision . Senator, i cant get into specifics about what goes on in the White House Counsels Office. I do appreciate i simply asked if you played a role. I didnt ask what role you played. Uhhuh. Senator, ive read about the firing of mr. Atkinson in the newspaper. Ok, that doesnt answer me yep. President trump said of in thor general atkinson, the man is a disgrace to i. G. s, hes a total disgrace. Do you agree with that statement in mr. Miller senator, for a number of reasons why i dont want to get involved in that question. First of all, i dont know all the facts. I dont know what went on, i dont know what the thinking was and secondly a lot of that is protected by white house confidential tip. As a lawyer, i have ethical only gayses to obligations to find all lawyers and when Justice Kagan was before the senate for confirmation, she limited her comments about her time in White House Counsels Office and her time in the clinton domestic policy cowl to the white house. My time has expired but i didnt ask you what you specific ically did if you did something. I asked you whether you were involved. I didnt ask you about any considerablety when i asked the question confidentialty when i asked the question about the way the president described in thor atkinson. And i think independence, as you state, is incredibly important and so trying to judge those actions and whether you participated or not is very telling. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, and next to senator rounds. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Id like to begin with miss miller. Earlier in a it will here, you did not testimony here. You did not get an opportunity to respond to the Ranking Members suggestion that there were an inappropriate difficult while you were at o. M. B. Id like to give you an opportunity anyhow right now to share your activities and maybe what the Ranking Member suggested was an inappropriate activity. Mr. Miller senator, thank you, im assuming that you 12 i apologize. That was for miss wade, not for mr. Miller. Mrs. Wade yes, senator, thank you very much for the question and i appreciate the opportunities to be able to respond. First of all, housing discrimination is intolerable and if confirmed, i will do everything i can to enforce the nations fair housing laws. That is my commitment. In addition, related to my role at o. M. B. , i led a resource middleweight organization and to that end, it was our job and it was my job to make sure that taxpayer money was spent efficiently and economically. It is a very important oversight role in the government. Im very proud of the work they did at o. M. B. So i thank you for the opportunity to respond. Thank you. Iller, i do preemplt appreciate your conversations with me earlier. I wish it was in person but naturally weve been doing a lot of these conversations Long Distance so i appreciated the comments earlier today that we had. Thank you. I think its really important that not only are you in a position to talk about what might be of a criminal name that occurs but also in terms of making sure the policeman is run as Efficiency Program is run as first quartercy first quarterly as possible and that they set out the goal that congress set out in the first place. Part of it is immediate feedback. Members of the congress get that feedback in a lot of cases. Senator menendez was talking about whether or not youd take a phone call from the white house. Im curious, would you take a phone call from the member of a senator looking at ways to make things better or asking questions about whether or not certain parts of the program were being operate it would way early in supposed to . Would you take that phone call from a senator . Mr. Miller senator, this is such an Important Program and its so important that this money gets to the right people that i think we should be willing to look at how we can improve it in real time. Congress has an opportunity to clarify the act and clarify how this is done and if we find out things are not working well in a particular area, i think the senate should be willing to change it so that it can work better better and knowing where its working and not working in real time is vital so in that respect, i would welcome a call from a senator and it does make since to talk to the secretary s well as other treasury officials to know what theyre doing, whats working, whats not working. They could well sail we cant make this program work and that could be part of my report to the congress. Earlier we discussed there could be ways in which members of, perhaps the house or the senate, because were talking with folks every day about how these are working. Is there a procedure you could establish to make it so that when members of this committee or other committees want to get in touch with you that it is seamless in nature. Easier to realize that were trying to get information from you and responding back. Is there a process that yutched be interested in pursuing to make it easier that information we get passed down to your team . Mr. Miller thank you for the question. I could see my office performing the function of a clearing house. The socalled pract so much of what we have to do will run out of data and i. T. Systems. I can see the benefits of having a system where we can hear from congress as well in performing clearinghouse functions so we know that information thats coming in to all of us is getting to the right places. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator tester . Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank you, senators for doing this meeting and doing it in the way youve done. I appreciate it. Mr. Miller, i had a chance to meet with you last week. I told i i was going to ask how many employees do you need to do this job . I have the background and ability to do this job and to do it independently. The act gives me some resources. If i ever lack resources i will be coming back to this committee to let you know. Ok, so you dont have a an idea of how many people youre going to need to do this job . I think initially i will start with between probably 75 to 100. It will be hard to staff up quickly because i have to build from scrap and get hiring authority, go through the g. S. System and so starting it up will take a lot of time but i think that to do the job effectively, i think ill need to start with somewhere between 50 and 100, more like 75 to 100. This is the biggest package anybodys ever voted on, i think, on this committee. Will you commit your recording to congress immediately if treasury does not follow the transparency requirements in the cares act that require treasury to disclose loan recipients . Mr. Miller yes, sir, im required under the law to do that. The law requires if you question request information from agencies that is not provided you, do you intend to follow that . I do. Regardless of whether the , do you democrat oren promise to let Congress Know if notre being pressured do to pursue certain investigations. I will and as i said, the i. G. Act requires that i. G. s report Serious Problems to congress and i will also report if members of congress exert that pressure. Ok, thats good. In a signed statement for the cares act, President Trump said holdhis administration has provide thew do you prrble in the president s statements . I am trying to avoid stepping into battles between the executive branch and legislative branch. I will follow the law. Section iv of the i. T. Act requires me to support sires problems and to make legislators to congress. I will do that. So if the president says that you cannot report this information to congress, you will not only reports that to congress but you will tell us that the president tried to stop you from reporting it . Senator, if the president himself does that, i would think that would be a serious issue, yes. Youve been in the white house so you know how this works. If the president does this or one of his mini yons do with direct communication back to the president , i think its important you give this information from us. I will report any undue influence on me from whatever sour. Perfect. Im going to tell you from my perspective right now. Ive been stonewalled every step of the way trying to get information from this administration on where in money is going. Every single step of the wail so your position is critically important for oversight. In your white house service, did you have any involvement, discussions or awareness in the glean fine . Mr. Miller senator, as i said before, i cant respond to questions Pretty Simple question. Did you have any involvement, discussion or awareness in the removal of brett fine . Yes or no . Its good enough for me. Mr. Miller senator, my ability to respond to questions about what goes on in the White House Counsels Office or the white house may be limited by my ethical obligations to find all lawyers and i will follow Justice Kagans example of limiting comments about her service in the White House Counsels Office. So were in a different situation here, brian. First of all, this is 2. 2 billion of taxpayers money. Secondly, i have watched the president remove rick bright when he challenged hydroxychloroquine. And i have watched him remove colonel and his brother on questions of impeachment. Ive watched him remove glenn fine. The question is you worked at as white House Counsel. The fact is i have no doubt that if you go against the president hes going to remove you because hes done it time and time and time again. The question is were you aware of the glenn fine situation or the atkinson situation . Did you have any input on it . Because quite frankly, that makes you part of the problem in the white house. Mr. Miller senator, again, i will be independent. If the president removes me, he removes me. If i am unable to do my job, i will resign but i will do my job faithfully and independently but i will not comment on white House Counsels operations following the example of justice craigen and in many others who have craigen and many others who have come from White House Counsels Office and gone on to independent positions as judges and even in other positions. Thank you, brian. To you too, mrs. Wade. Thank you, senator. Senator kennedy. Congratulations to you both. Mr. Miller, you were appointed in thor general of g. S. A. 2005 is, that right . Correct. And who appointed you . President bush. And how long did you serve . Nearly 10 years, through much of the obama administration. And at one point you had to investigate the administrator of the g. S. A. . Yes. Who appointed that administrator that you had to investigate . President bush. And what were your conclusions . That she steerled a contract to a friend in violation of procurement law and we also made a referral of a violation to the special counsel, who made a conclusion that she did violate the half act. And you wrote a report on that . We wrote a steering of the contract to a friend. The special counsel wrote on the hatch act. Did she complain to the white house . She did. Did anybody criticize you for writing that report . Many people. Give me some examples. Respective micah called for the perspective to fire me. Respective davis also called to fire me at a hearing publicly. Those come to mind. Certainly the administrator herself, certainly many other people. Some people in the Administration Still criticize me for that. In the Bush Administration . Uh, yes. Did you change your report . Not at all. Did you change your conclusion . Not at all. So you just stood firm . I stood firm. Ok. Did that make you feel comfortable . Was it a pleasant experience . Senator, no, it was not but that goes with the territory of being in thor general. Youre never comfortable but you have to do the right thing and at the end of the day you have to be comfortable with your own conscious and it doesnt matter what anybody else thinks on even what this august body thinks. So you were appointed by president brush. Bush. The administrator of g. S. A. Was appointed by president bush. You were appointed by president bush. You as Inspector General of g. S. A. , you investigated the administrator. Head of your agency appointed by president bush and you wrote her up. I did. And some people in the white house didnt like that. Some people in congress didnt like that. Yes, sir. But you didnt change your report . Not at all. Ok. ,000 ive looked through your background. Mr. Miller. Ive looked you up on the internet. Ive googled you. Ive read your resume. Ive herd all the allegations. Maybe allegations is too strong a word. The innuendo or the suggestions that you will be a puppet of the president. I dont understand the basis for that. Ive looked everywhere. Is there any any place in your background as an assistants u. S. Attorney or the in thor general for a decade at g. S. A. Where youve backed down because youve been told to back down . Mr. Miller no, sir. When you were an assistant u. S. Attorney, did you ever back f of a case because somebody with political influence told you to . Mr. Miller no, sir. I mean, is there anything in their history . I cant find it. Is there anything in your history that would independence indicate that youre willing to sacrifice your principles if somebody in political power tells you to. Mr. Miller no. And senator, one of the letters is from some of my special agents when i was in thor general. It talks about how i let them continue an investigation when there were some people in the office who thought it should be shut down and ultimately they proved the case and got a conviction. Thank you. Mrs. White, i think youre swell. I dont have any questions. I think youll do a great job. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator warnler . Enator warren . Elizabeth . Elizabeth one usual warren . Youre with us. There she is. O ahead, senator warren. Youre on, senator warren. Are either senator warner or Senate Warren . I saw senator warren. Senator warren is trying to get on. Senator warren, i believe, is trying to get her microphone to ork. Well, apparently were having some troubles there so well come back to senator warren but we will move at this moment to senator van holland. Thank you, mr. Chairman, can you hear me ok . We can hear you. Excellent. I want to congratulate both the witnesses on your nominations. On ms. Wade, i will be submitting some questions for the record with your respect to your nomination. Mr. Miller, you were, of course, normal named to be the special Inspector General for the Pandemic Recovery and as many have pointed out that, requires independence. It also requires a determination to conduct rigorous investigations to get to the truth, to get to the facts that uncover any wrongdoing so i want to ask you about your role in responding to the investigation conducted by the nonpartisan Government Accountabilities Office into the administrations withholding the vitally needed security sfloins to ukraine. Asked g. A. O. To conduct that inquiry and they ultimately concluded that the administrations withholding of that Security Assistance was illegal under the empowerment control act. The g. A. O. Also raised Major Concerns about the executive branch stonewalling their inquiry, saying in their report that the blocking of the investigation rose to the level, and i quote of constitutional significance. You personally participated in that stonewalling as the white house lawyer who signed a letter to g. A. O. Stating that the white house would not provide a sub stan active reply. I must say i was a little stunned when senator reed asked you about that letter and you dismissed it as just answering the mail. If you were normal named, if youre confirmed as the in thor general here and you wrote to an agency with information about one of the issues you were investigating and they refused to respond, would that be acceptable to you . Mr. Miller no, sir. I was answering the mail for g. A. O. I wanted to make sure they received an answer. I respect g. A. O. And wanted to make sure that their inquiries were responded to and so i stemmed in and made sure that they got a response and the letter does say that the general counsel of o. M. B. Responded to their questions. Active letter you signed dated december 20, 2019 here responding to mr. Armstrong, general counsel g. A. O. The last sentence of that letter is the white house does not plan to respond separately to your letters. And you cite an o. M. B. Letter. Can you tell us today under oath that the white house did not have in its own possession information that was responsive to the g. A. O. Inquiry . Mr. Miller senator, there are two reasons why i cant respond to that i cant talk about confidentiality in the white house. Secondly, im not familiar with those issues. I am familiar with the fact that the previous sentence of the letter says the general counsel of o. M. B. Responded to the questions of g. A. O. And instead of having separate spanns from chief of staff mulvany and white use counsel sip loney, the white house is relying on the general counsel of o. M. B. , the budget office, to respond to that particular issue. Right but the letter was seeking documents and other factual information. So is it your it will today under oath that the o. M. B. Their response met all of the criteria you would consider necessary in their response . Mr. Miller i am simply saying that i sent the letter to make sure g. A. O. Has the had the white house. He i understand that. The last sentence was the white house does not plan to respond separately to your letter so im asking you whether your testimony is that the white house did not have any Additional Information that was responsive to the g. A. O. Inquiry. As i understand your statement today, you either dont know or wont say, is that correct . Mr. Miller sir, its probably both. I think this is an example of no good deed goes unpunished. I have respect for g. A. O. I wanted to make sure the lert was responded to and it did get responded to and they could stop inquiring and they had an answer to their inquiries. With all respect, your letter says it was great that you responded, you do not plan to respond separately. If youre an in thor general and an agency gave you the response that you got from the white house that you signed, would you find that stonewalling acceptable . Mr. Miller first of all, senator, i think im over time. With the chairmans indulgence id like to continue. Briefly, please. Mr. Miller as far as the letter goes, the general counsel of the budget was answering a budgets question. I was simply pointing out, look, you have the response. Im not sure what your question is getting at, senator. Mr. Chairman, i thank you. It wasnt just asking for orment m. B. s response. The will be they also wrote to the white house was to get any documents or relevant information that the white house may have had with respect to their inquiry. You essentially gave them a non sfobs. You said talk to the other agency. My question is would that be acceptable to you . I have to conclude from your answers that it would not be. Thank you. We have to go back now and see if senator warren is available. Senator warren . Senator warren thank you. So we were in the middle of a ublic Health Pandemic crisis that has already killed more than 60,000 people and hatch a step behind is an economic crisis that threatens to of millions of people across this country. The cares act created a 500 billion slush fund for giant corp ragings and if confirmed as the special in thor general, it will be mr. Millers job to conduct the oversight of this money and to make sure it is spent for workers on families, not shareholders and corporate executives, so mr. Miller, lets just start with the basics. You would be given Broad Authority under the cares act to investigate all of the money the treasury hands out in the coronavirus response. All of the funds districted by taxpayerbacked lending to the Federal Reserve and what the companies do with the loans. Is that correct . Mr. Miller senator, i will follow the law and make sure i do an investigation on those programs. Senator warren these are the easy questions. Can we just do yes, thats right . Mr. Miller could you repeat the question, please . Senator warren i am just citing what the baugh l. A. Law says. Mr. Miller i will follow the law whatever it says. Senator warren and the law prevent the right to and defect fraud in government programs. Is that right . Mr. Miller thats right. Senator warren so the law gives thank you authority and the tools to investigate the people who are handing out the money and who get the money. So now i just want to ask how you plan to use your norment and i want to get specific on in. Want to ask about how you senate sma investigate how the money is used. If a giant corporation gets a bailout financed from taxpayer money from cares and then lays off or fur allowings a bunch of workers, this would constitute a potential waste or abuse of taxpayer bailout fraud but would you investigate in such a case . Mr. Miller senator, im not going to answer hype calls but i would investigate any misuse of the moneys senator warren i need to know what constitutes abuse in your mind. Thats how we determine whos going to be an in thor general whos going to be working out for taxpayer funds. You said yesterday when you and i spoke privately that you thought that would constitute a of taxpayer te funds and i just want to know, would you investigate . Mr. Miller i would investigate any case i consider an abuse of taxpayer funds. Senator warren would you investigate a corporation that takes money from cares and then lays off workers. Is that a potential waste or abuse youd youd have to investigate . Yes, senator. Good. If a giant corporation lobbieses congress or the bhowls and gets a bailout financed by taxpayers is that a forblee situation for fraud or abuse that you would flfingt . Mr. Miller senator, im not comfortable answering hypothetical cales. I need to know what you would investigate. Im not asking about a particular depeafpblet im asking in general, is that the kind of thing that would trigger your investigation . When we spoke yesterday in private, you said you thought it was. I just want that in public on the record when youre under oath. Prosecute miller i want to be careful about hypothetical. Certainly when companies are getting the money for profit and playing laying off workers, seems to be a situation i would want to investigate. How about when theyre lobbying the white house or congress, either one. Is that a potential circumstance youd want to investigate . Mr. Miller again, senator, im not comfortable with the whole hypothetical you were comfortable in private yesterday. In fact, when i asked about the white house, you said you want to as well. I want that in public right now. Mr. Miller you know, senator, im going to investigate any area that i think is an abuse of these moneyies. Elizabeth warren do you think lobbying and then getting money is a potential for abuse that you would flfingt . Its upon, senator. So if it is possible, would you investigate . I would investigate it if trm lobbying congress or the white house. Good, thats all i wanted. And then a third one and that is, even if the Treasury Department doesnt have any restrictions in the loan documents or ask for information about how the money would be used over strict corporate lobbying or avoid potential conflicts of interest, will you request that information from companies that receive loans i will investigate all potential conflicts of interest and if i dont have the information through the department of treasury, i will request and threaten subpoena the information if i dont get it. Good and will i you make that information public so that taxpayers can see whats going on . My goal is to make all information public and to inform the pear a taxpayer. The only possible exception would be if it is part of a criminal referral to the department of justice. Good, i am glad to hear that because i believe transparency is important. I think there could be iron clad rules on Companies Getting a bailout but the republicans refused. Now the primary tools that well to stop corporations from using this bailout to enrich themselves is rigorous oversight. As miller, your time working shouldnt disqualify you from being nominated to oversee the president s middleweight of one of the largest corporate bailouts in american history. The demand from you will be particularly intense because in president has already fired multiple in thors general and its because he couldnt tolerate any criticism and he has already said that he will muzzle you. You, will however, have the chance to defend your independence and your integrity by your actions. If he sticks to the commitments that you have made here and you are an aggressive watchdog, im prepared to work with you on it. Thank you, mr. Miller. Mr. Miller thank you, senator. I would like to work with you, even if you dont vote for my confirmation, as you indicated yesterday. Senator tillis . Senator, mr. Chairman, mr. Miller, ms. Wade. Thank you for being there. I regret its under these difficult cirques. Mr. Miller in response to some of senator tommys and sflarlt kennedys questions, i feel like we have two different millers before the committee. On the one hand we have people questioning your independence, particularly under the weight and pressure of an administration but you again investigated someone who was appointed by president bush. You yourself were appointed by president bush. That investigation didnt change one bit regardless of the pressure you got on capitol hill and i would suspect others and what was the ultimate disposition of the person in the gamplet s. A. s position . She was asked to resign, senator. Ok. And earlier, Ranking Member brown characterized one of your writings as something that seemed to question your economy. To independence and in your response to him, you said it was a mischaracterization of what you wrote. Would you mind going back over that for me briefly . Mr. Miller my concern is that in thors general are independents of both the exec active and exong exec active and congressional branches. My concern with the article is that in thors general need to understand that they are also independent from undue pressure from the congress. Thats the gist of the entire article. In fact, i say in the article that its fundamental for an in thor general to be independent. You st to sum it up, investigated someone else who was put forth by president bush. You were put forth by president bush. You continue in spite of pressure you were getting from capitol hill and others to wordd ultimately, it resulted in the removal from the person and deposition . From that person in that position . Do you think the five year period will be a sufficient time to a lot of of the program . Mr. Miller i will do myself to work myself out of a job. I believe we need effective oversight prize there are a lot of oversight instruments and organizations that will be her riding oversight organizations that will be providing oversight. Exactlyo early to tell if five years is the right amount of time. Prize i you, mr. Miller have confidence. Thank you, mr. Miller. I have confidence. Last question for you and for ms. Wade. Is there such a thing as good fraud and bad fraud . [laughter] think r um, i dont probably not. Mr. Miller i would think any fraud is bad. I think fraud is fraud. I appreciated the time he spent on the phone with me yesterday. You take a look at all the benefactors under the cares act, and you looked through the simple lines of through the simple lines of why the number and appropriately allocated to somebody because of fraud . I want you to go after the big businesses, the Small Businesses, and everybody in between my if they have taken advantage of this program. I hope that we will have members on the others of the aisle that will come up with this concept of good fraud and bad fraud because fraud is fraud. I look for to support your nomination. Wade, we have had some time to digest the cares act. There are things we need to do to adjust it. 300d by appropriating million to the paycheck protection program, but within your lane, can you think of anything to be thinking about moving forward as we make potential changes, refinements, may changing deadlines, or a timeframe . Can you think of anything else . Wade that is a great question. The cares act is already provided tremendous support to housing markets and to borrowers. As you know, it is provided up to a year of forbearance for borrowers. It is provided an eviction and foreclosure moratorium. This is an involving situation evolving situation and one we are continuing to monitor on a daytoday basis and in real time, and we will use a datadriven approach to provide any additional assistance and any flexibility, but i think when it comes to what we think of us the next phase, hud always appreciates assistance in providing flexibility across aidces in order to get this and other aid in the future assistance that congress is considering as quickly as possible. Withld be happy to work you on that objective. I can think of the forbearance issue and others we will have to take a look at, so i look forward to getting your input. Congratulations and happy birthday to your little girl tomorrow. Thank you. Next is senator warner. I have been in the Intelligence Committee for the last couple of hours. Millerto start with mr. On that subject. I think some of my colleagues may have asked the question about Michael Atchison. This was something i was intimately involved in, and i hope i am not looking as yellow to the rest of my colleagues as i look on this screen. This is not a case of jaundice just yet. [laughter] it looks pretty darn awful. Mr. Miller, you know, having been very, very familiar with Michael Atchison and his actions in regard to reporting and trying to protect whistleblower that led to the issue of the president s engagement with the ukrainian president , and you having been involved as an ig and white House Counsel, based on any personal knowledge you may have, or anything you have seen in the record, is there any indication to you that Michael Atkinson was not performing his duties appropriately as Inspector General the Intelligence Community . Mr. Miller senator, mr. Atkinson was an i t physician, but it was a specialized ig position governed by statutes governing national intelligence. I am just not familiar with the in that the law situation. I am reluctant to give an opinion where i dont have all the facts. Nothingner there was you were in the White House Council office. Was there anything even based , secondhandry knowledge that any kind of evidence that Michael Atkinson was inappropriate performing his duties as Inspector General . Mr. Miller senator, i dont have all the facts. My premise was that mr. Atkinson was fired for doing his job, and regardless of the president s legal authority, what kind of affect does the president , even with legal authority, what kind of Chilling Effect or other effect does it have on the Inspector General community if the president is because theg people results of their activities lead to substantive results that he doesnt like . Whether in the case of the whistleblowers complaints, and the case of ukraine, or the more recent dismissal of Inspector General at hhs in terms of doing their work on an independent investigation, what effect does the president actions have on your previous communitys igs . Mr. Miller my experience is that ig always has the possibility that they may be fired. They serve at the pleasure of the president , and they may be fired for whatever reason as long as the president states them in writing to both houses of congress. And so, you just have to do your job and let the consequences be what they may be. But you should never be afraid of stating the truth, and if you have to be fired, you are fired, but you always have to be prepared, at least, to walk away from your job. That goes with the territory of being an Inspector General. So, you have no concerns from the standpoint of the Inspector General community . Clearly, you will be taking on a position that appears the president , one doesnt like igs. ,wo, doesnt like oversight three, we are talking about an area where there is huge distribution of funds. Au are trying to get through nomination process, but it just seems to me that this record of upon thes based substantive results of their work, differ from the , will bes position something that would cause some consternation. My time is about up, but i would like to also submit questions for the record for ms. Wade in terms of how we will do with the forbearance issues going forward, and the possible need for a liquidity facility . Have morere we dont major disruption in the housing market. Thank you. You will be able to submit questions at the end. I will put the date due by may 7. I will repeat that at the end up the hearing. Senator clanton has giving me a letter. He was at that hearing as well, and has been unable to get to this hearing. He looks forward to submitting questions, and does want to have a conversation with you in person, mr. Miller. You can expect to have a conversation. Our next senator will be senator cortez masto. Masto i sen. Cortez want to congratulate mr. Miller and ms. Wade for their nomination. , let me start with you. In a nevada, we were hard hit by in nevada, we were hard hit by the financial crisis. Inaw lenders who took homes foreclosure, and there was unfortunately, a forging of documents. In september of 2017, the hud office of Inspector General issued a report entitled, hud did not have adequate control to ensure services properly engaged in lost mitigation. Fastforward to where we are today. Leslie, the hud office of Inspector General published ofther report on its review 30 servicer websites, and the report found that the websites provided incomplete, inconsistent data and unclear guidance to borrowers related to their forbearance options under the cares act. Obviously notld be providing this type of inormation and conduct conduct, to correct, prevent, and were seeing it again. My question to you is how do you ensure servicers provide clear and fair guidance to forbearance to homeowners, and prevent this type of bad conduct from occurring during this crisis . Senator, i appreciate the question. This is a very important issue to me, and i want to start saying, first of all, fraud at any level should never be tolerated, and i think we learned a lot of lessons following the financial crisis. To your point specifically about ensuring that servicers are communicating the right policies to homeowners. That is also a priority. Again, this could be a confusing time. It is an uncertain time, and if confirmed, i would do whatever i could do to ensure there was as much clarity as possible. In particular, i know currently, essay working with the fh to provide a Single Source for information to borrowers. I think this is something we have to monitor vigilantly. We want to make sure these programs are working as they are designed. Services required to provide forbearance, as well as loss mitigation, and they are required to follow certain policies of fha. If confirmed, this is something i plan to take a look at and keep a close eye on. Sen. Cortez masto thank you. I am hearing anecdotally stories from homeowners with services or telling them. Are you also willing to take a look at the oversight of servicers by appropriate sampling and review of companies , and talking with borrowers . I am hopeful you are engaged at that level. That is the only way we will stop any kind of bad conduct by servicers. Ms. Wade well, senator, i will take a look at any data that is presented to me, and as you know, sha has a lot of enforcement tools available. I believe in strong and clear enforcement. It is another important objective. Sen. Cortez masto i dont mean to cut you off. There should be a complaint office. You should be able to access this information. That is what i am looking for. I am hopeful that working with you, we can ensure we are addressing this issue. I think we all know the stats. We want to stop it. We need to know that we are accessing the information to identify it so action can be taken. I hope we are able to do so. Let me jump to mr. Miller real quick. Mr. Miller, there is no doubt in my mind that you have extensive experience as ig. I am very impressed by your back and resume. Let me say this. Concern with this administration and a lack of it is not that the president is overtlynot saying this or covertly hiding behind the scenes, talking about how he is not going to be held accountable. He is saying it in public. Instead of respecting the cares theand supporting inspectors general, the president said i will be the oversight. He is very clear about it. Let me ask you very quickly. If the white house or an agency asks you to withhold information, would you notify congress immediately of this request . Mr. Miller yes, senator. Sen. Cortez masto if the white house one the treasury to show preference for political gain, would you consider that a violation and reported immediately to congress . Mr. Miller i did not hear all of your question, im sorry. Sen. Cortez masto if the white house wanted the treasury to show preference and care act funding to states for political gain, would you consider that a violation . Mr. Miller i would consider that a violation. Sen. Cortez masto at white house and treasury one of the treasury to obtain information on corporate, political donations pryor prior to financing, would you consider that a violation and reported to congress . Mr. Miller i need more facts, but that does sound it could be. Sen. Cortez masto do you plan to gain president ial approval before listed getting contracts . Mr. Miller no, senator. Sen. Cortez masto thank you. Listen, most of the questions have been asked, but these are serious times, and this is such an important issue to make sure we are doing right by so many people across this country. So may people are still suffering. Were looking for people to stand up and do the right thing, so i appreciate your willingness thisrk, quite honestly, in administration, but we will hold you accountable. At the end of the day, i am hopeful i get to work with both of you, but we will ask the tough questions, and i am not going to let up. It is too important that we ress the suffering having suffering happening across the country. Thank you. Senator jones. Hope everyone can hear me. Mr. Miller, thank you for the phone call the other day. I want to ask you three questions. With 10le of one to 10, and 10 zero no respect being unshakable respect, how would you rate president bushs respect for the independence of Inspector General . [laughter] mr. Miller senator, i am not comfortable evaluating president s performances, whether it is past president s or the current president. Sen. Jones would you acknowledges president has a view of the Inspector General is that is so far less than president bush or president obama, even though they let folks go . Can you acknowledge this president because you told me the other day in our phone call that it would be a challenge working for President Trump. Can you acknowledge that . Mr. Miller this is going to be a very challenging and demanding position. There is no question about that. And i will go where the facts lead. They may be faster president and administration dont like, but i will state them anyway. Sen. Jones i appreciate that, but i keep hearing so much look, you got great experience. I have also heard so much about this one time when you challenged president bush, but the fact is, this president is harder to challenge. And i think everybody recognizes that. I would hope to see some acknowledgment of that from you, little more than we have today because that really kind of shows the independence. You did mention that there would be a case where you would either but other walk away, ways to push back on a president who is trying to influence the independence of an Inspector General instead of walking away from the job. Mr. Miller certainly. I will do my job to the best of my ability, and i will do the job of the Inspector General. Sometimes that involves working with Administration Officials to convince them that they should change the program, or the july you to get information or they should allow you to get information. That is apart of leadership experience, both of which i have and i would use as Inspector General to avoid those conflicts. There has been more than one time i have had to investigate and make adverse reports and faced tough criticism, not just what the one administration or that was removed, but with major contractors, and political appointees in both administration said administrations. Sen. Jones did you ever work in the white House Counsel for those administrations . Mr. Miller did i work as a lawyer . Sen. Jones were you in white House Counsel for administration, and it came Inspector General . Mr. Miller i have not, but president obama, since my conversation with the senator yesterday, i went back and refresh my recollection, but president obama pointed elena kagan to the Supreme Court. She had been in a political position in his administration in the Clinton White house. Sen. Jones i appreciate that, but my question is it is ok, look, i was hoping to get a little more from you, but it is ok. Mr. Miller i am not sure what you want. Sen. Jones i was asking about you, not about elena kagan. I know her history. I was just trying to help out a little bit to try to establish that when you say you will be independent, your job to be independent will be harder here. My time is running out. I appreciate your being here and your willingness to serve, mr. Miller, i really do. I hope you abu i hope you will be as tough and independent as you say and torture history says. I do want to get a question to miss wade. Disappointing to see that your boss was not wearing the university mask. I want to ask you about the proposed rule for disparate impact that hud has now published. I am very concerned about that rule and how it is going to make it almost impossible to bring discrimination compliance. Are you familiar with that rule and do you have an opinion about that rule . Ms. Wade well, senator, i appreciate the question. I understand that secretary carson has already addressed this. My understanding is that the codifyof the rule is to the 2015 Supreme Court decision, however, this is not a rule that would be under my direct purview as fha commissioner. Sen. Jones ok. Secretaryt think carson addressed it. I think gave an answer, but i certainly cannot agree fully addressed it. Be that as it may, i will leave it there. Thank you, mr. Chairman, and thank you everyone for participating. Thank you. Senator smith. Sen. Smith thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you to mr. Miller and ms. Wade for your willing to serve. I want to try to get a sense from mr. Miller on how you see id authority of the special over what parts of the cares act you have authority over . Here is one example. I have heard from a lot of minnesotans about problems giving the reader based payments that most americans were supposed to receive. Minnesotans are calling my office saying the payments went to the wrong bank, or a bank account that doesnt exist, people are getting payments based on their 2018 Tax Information even though they filed a 2019 return. Some payments are going to dead people. Folks dont know how to return them. This strikes me as exactly the kind of mismanagement that an Inspector General should be looking into. But when i asked the irs about these problems, what they told us is that my constituents should wait until next year when they file their 2020 tax return and the issue should be resolved by then, but of course, these are folks needing that 1200 to pay rent, or they might get infected, to buy groceries. This, if you are confirmed, and the cares act would charge you with examining the management of the secretary of any program established under this act, do you believe you have jurisdiction over looking at how these recovery rebates have been made . Actmiller if the cares gives me that authority to review how the secretary is performing and administering the programs, i would look at that. Certainly, in the situation you described, i certainly would be working with the Small Business administration ig, and with the socalled Accountability Committee of igs, and making sure that they are examining how these programs are being administered, and how these payments are being misdirected. Sen. Smith but do you believe the cares act does give you that authority . Givesller the cares act me authority certainly over title four of the cares act, and withinly authority to work the ids individually. And i think one of the lessons i forcesarned is form task to obtain authority and jurisdiction in areas that need to be explored. Tryso, certainly, i would and obtain authority where necessary to look into those matters, and if i did not have that authority, i would try to make sure the id that has authority is actively and aggressively going after that. Sen. Smith ok. My view is that you would have that authority an this is the kind of mismanagement we need to look into. Let me ask you another one. There has been a worry about how these payments are not getting to people facing homelessness. I wrote a letter to secretary mnuchin. 27 of my colleagues signed on asking how folks who are iiencing homelessness have not heard back. The irs has published promotional material, telling people experience and homelessness, they can sign up online, but clearly, that is not going to work if you dont have access to online solutions, like countless americans and people experiencing homelessness. Would you consider that a part of your role as special Inspector General, to make sure all americans can get access to these payments . As the law requires . Mr. Miller i will look into that situation, and certainly, i would like the act to get the isey to the people that it intended to have the money. Certainly, this money is necessary to help americans during this time, and Small Businesses being depleted during this time, and to replace the paycheck that they would otherwise have gotten. Sen. Smith i think one of the most important things you can do as Inspector General is to hold Administration Accountable for implementing this law as the law was intended. That is why we so carefully included the Inspector General in this job, and it is why so many of my colleagues are so concerned about this, especially since when he signed the act, the president said, by the way, you know, i can say whether or not Inspector General shares information with congress, and that is why we included this language in the bill because we wanted to make sure that didnt happen. This is why people are so are so concerned. We talked about this yesterday. I appreciate you getting on the phone with me and talking about it, but i really am concerned about this. I also want to say one last thing before we wrap this up. This is focused on part of the cares act and is extreme important to me. It has to do with the tribal government, and getting the 8 billion in tribal recovery to organizations. L organizations in new mexico has been hardest hit, and were waiting for the Treasury Department to release 8 billion that was appropriated and authorized by congress and the cares act. I want to draw attention to this. It was unacceptable. The treasury said something today that they might get it out. The deadline was april 26, and tribal governments are dealing with a catastrophic loss of revenue and employment. Mr. Miller, these are the challenges you will be having to cope with if you are confirmed, holding this Administration Accountable when it is not doing when the law requires them to do. That is why we need such a strong Inspector General. So thank you for your willingness to serve. Ms. Wade, i have a couple questions for you. I am grateful for your willingness to serve as well. Thank you, mr. Chair. Thank you. Senator brown, our Ranking Member will have the final question. Senator brown . Sen. Brown thank you. Thank you for the forbearance of all of you. I think this was an unmitigated success doing is hearing this way, and will probably get a lot of skeptics on the hill about pulling this off, so thanks again to greg, laura, and cameron, the real stars that put this together, and thank you for doing this, too. I want to talk about tribal governments. I was on a call with action agencies. What has happened with help disparities, someone said to me in an earlier Conference Call in the pandemic is the great revealer and so much of what has happened with Tribal Health and africanamericans health with infant mortality, Life Expectancy is so glaring and i am hopeful that both of you, as public servants, longtime public servants, will pay special attention to what senator smith said, and all of us on these issues, but i have a common question. Ms. Wade, i would like to follow with senator brauns comments. I never suggest that you did anything inappropriate. I did not use that word. I did say that under your leadersip, civil rights and housing advocates in faith leaders and many members of this body discard described as run problematic contrary to the purpose of the law, including fair housing. You said you would enforce the fair housing act, but most of the participants think what you did is compromising bad. Undoubtedly square your work with the, gma today that you plan to help so many of those same people how do i square your work today with your planned help so many people. Do everything i can to enforce the fair housing laws. I find housing discrimination appointment and completely unacceptable. Hud spends a lot of time investigating fair housing complaint. It has an entire office dedicated to investigating and to enforcing their housing laws. If confirmed, i will do whatever i can to support those efforts. Sen. Brown i appreciate that and take you at your word. I also know and am a bit cautious about not believing you, but thinking you will do this because at owing be, you did the opposite, at least according to people i trust on these issues, including civil rights and housing advocates, and they think this is in fact, more in, setting concrete the kind of discrimination from jim crow to redlining to what we have now, but thank you, and good luck to you. Mr. Miller, a followup to your followup mr. Miller, a followup to an earlier question. I shouldve followed up. You did not say anything about the Federal Reserve. The treasury is authorized to give billions of the Federal Reserve will lend trades of dollars to businesses. Do you believe the law created this special id that you have been nominated for gives you the authority to oversee the feds lending facilities and the companies who receive loans under these facilities . Do you mean also that you have the authority to oversee the feds lending facilities . Mr. Miller a very good question, senator. At this point in time, looking at the act, it is clear i have jurisdiction over the secretary of the treasury. And right now, i consider every dollar that goes from treasury through the Federal Reserve to also give me jurisdiction over the Federal Reserve. If i am fortunate enough to be confirmed, and i analyze that in come up with a different view, i may be knocking on your door to get more explicit authority. Sen. Brown ok. I appreciate that. That is exactly what we wanted to hear. And it is essential. It is trillions of dollars. Last, final thing, mr. Chairman, thank you for your forbearance. Mr. Miller, you have been facing questions about your time at the white house. Senator after senator asked what matters you were involved in, not so we can understand your background on the specifics of what you did i am not a lawyer but i understand Attorney Client privilege, but they were not asking you specifics on what you did. They were asking you so we understand who you are better. What matters you were involved in . Nobody wants you to violate privilege. Your background is important how to evaluate how you will do your job. Givetunately, you did not us that information in this hearing. Mr. Chairman, thank you for this hearing. Thank you very much, senator brown, and that does conclude the questioning. Again, i appreciate both you, mr. Miller, and ms. Is wade for taking the time in coming here and presenting yourselves in these unique, new circumstances. Mr. Chairman, can i say one more thing . Appreciated the witnesses and the chairman Wearing Masks when they were there. All the people who called in from our office is obvious he did not need masks. I know how strongly governor dewine feels about that in my stay, so thank you for that. Well, thank you. I also wanted to extend, an addition to greg, lauren laura, and cameron, extent or thanks to the rules committee and the studio for working so closely with this. There was so much work to make this come together, and as senator braun as indicated, i think it is a success, just in terms of the technological ability to put this kind of a hearing on in these difficult circumstances, and do it in a successful way. We also want to extend our thanks to all the workers who prepared and cleaned this room, those who are law for spin officials, and all the others who have come to make sure that we can operate and do our jobs in the United States senate Banking Committee. As i said, that does conclude the questioning and todays hearing. For senators who want to submit questions for the record, those questions are due to the committee by next thursday, may 7. We ask that both nominees respond of the questions by 9 00 a. M. Monday morning, may 11. Again, we thank you for being here, and this hearing is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2020] i hope you can go home tonight and have a relaxing evening. Thank you. I certainly will. Take care. Great job. Mr. Turnbull, thank you. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, senator. I appreciated. I appreciate it. Sure. The senate is in session today as members gaveled into continued to debate the National Counterintelligence and security center. Later this week, possible work on reauthorization and talks off the floor on future Coronavirus Relief legislation. 2atch the senate live on cspan in the house after consultation, not inspected to release legislative session. The chamber continues to hold brief pro forma sessions every three days as negotiations continue on possible options for remote voting. Watched the house, live on cspan. Live, onthe house cspan. Prime,hington journal special especially the addition of the washington journal on the federal response for the coronavirus pandemic. And anst is a doctor assistant professor habit immunology at the Johns Hopkins school of Public Health. On the latest developments in the spread of the coronavirus. Also joining us, congresswoman Jennifer Gonzalez colon, the resident commissioner for puerto rico, who represents the island in the house of representatives. She will talk about the covid19 response on the island and the federal relief efforts there. Join the conversation tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. Oj, oh yea, all persons have in business before the honorable Supreme Court of the United States give their attention. The court is now sitting. For the first time in history, here the u. S. Supreme court, live, this month, due to the coronavirus pandemic, the justices are hearing oral arguments in cases before the court by teleconference. Cspan will provide live coverage of each of the sessions , wednesday at 10 00 a. M. Eastern, the justices here two cases, Little Sisters of the poor versus pennsylvania and trump versus pennsylvania, consolidated oral argument on the constitutionality of the Affordable Care acts, which was expanded by the trump administration. Versus Political Consultants inc. A First Amendment case on banning automated calls to cell phones in order to collect debt on behalf of the United States. Be apart of history and listen to the Supreme Court oral arguments as they are heard by the justices, live, wednesday at on demand,r cspan or listen on the free cspan radio app. And medially following the live Supreme Court session, join Jeffrey Rosen of the National Constitution center leading a live discussion with scholars. 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