Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing On Policing Practices Oversight 20240714

Chair nadler the frequency of these killings, the absence of full accountability for those responsible sent a message to members of the Africanamerican Community that black lives do not matter. Let me state clearly for the record that black lives matter. Our criminal Justice System, including our Police Departments, cannot function without africanamericans knowing that their lives matter equally, that the system works to protect them just as it does every other citizen. We must also be able to put ourselves in the shoes of our Law Enforcement officers. We must be able to celebrate the services and sacrifices of our men and women in Law Enforcement who put their lives on the line ay in and day out. Serving up an inherently dangerous job. Take an advantage Law Enforcement officers and their families. It is alsoresponsible for the majority of incidents of misconduct. Todays hearing presents a unique opportunity for to us hear from some of the individuals and families affected by police misconduct. So i want to personally thank ms. Carr for speaking at this hearing on behalf of her son, and mr. Blake for sharing his personal story with us. Today presents an opportunity for us to explore Bipartisan Solutions to make policing a safer job by restoring the trust and good will between police and the communities they serve. We can reexam to see reforms passed by barack obama in 21st Century Policing and determine what further solutions are warranted. For example, we should examine whether the incentives created by the qualified immunity remain useful in todays environment. We should consider legislative proposals to end racial profiling and restore trust between Law Enforcement and the community. And we should explore ways to strengthen Data Collection on use of force and racial profiling so that Police Departments can measure the practices they manage. Most important, we can all agree that too many lives are put at risk and have been lost in Police Citizen encounters and that it is incumbent upon each of us to Work Together as fellow americans to solve this problem. I thank all the witnesses for appearing and look forward to their testimony. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, the gentleman from georgia, mr. Collins, for his opening statement. Mr. Collins thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. Before i get started i would like to add to the record a letter from the Detectives Association new york and the National Association of police organizations, a letter for the record. Chair nadler without objection. Mr. Collins i appreciate the chairmans opening. I think you covered a great deal of stuff. For me, and i have a lot of notes here, one of the things that to start out this it is very important that Excessive Force were used to be punish, should not be a thought about t. It should be punished and put before a proper due process procedure and acted upon quickly. It should not drug out. If its in a Minority Community or any other community, it needs to be looked at, processed, and done so in a fair way to all involved so that there is justice, there is possibility, so people do trust. But the one thing i do want to focus on, and the chairman did a good job because it is very fair that there are a lot of things that have happened in communities that raise a lot of concerns. Even on this committee have a job to look over how do we fix this . There are officers on this committee. I serve with and mrs. Demings is one of those who have done this, worn a uniform. I come from a different position. I want to emphasize. This is why we have this hearing today. Im going to take it from a perspective i dont think anybody wants to see justice go unserved. I think the interesting perspective here is my perspective there is no one that wants the bad actors out of Law Enforcement more than Law Enforcement itself. Im the son of a Georgia State trooper. I made the joke before that i thought fought the law and the law won every time. 62, 250 pounds, blue and gray uniform,. 350 on his belt. Daddy loved us, he was in georgia, he understood that. He would come home, im the little kid would watch dad go to work and when he come home at night. He would come in with his uniform torn, blood on his collar. How does that affect that kid . Thats my daddy. Thats the man to this day hes 80 years old. Hes a big teddy bear now, because of grandchildren. This is the man that i admire to this day. I am who i am because of him. When what would happen, my dad was a strong man and strong man. One of the interesting things that i always found was, its when something would go wrong with an officer, we had an officer in georgia who Georgia State trooper, i knew personally, who im tempted to call it a mistake, its not, he committed a crime. He had sexual encounter with someone in his custody and hes in jail. He was punished for it. You know whats even more amazing to me was my dads reaction to that. My dad came home he was upset. He was mad. I could tell it because the chairman talked about how this plays out in the police force. It played out at home. Because my dad didnt talk about it. My dad was mad as he could be about somebody tarnishing the badge and uniform that he wore. There is no one i believe, honestly in this country, who wants bad actors, who do bad things, out of the police force more than the police themselves. As someone who understands this and watched my father live it every day, when he was painted with that broad brush the chairman spoke off im glad we are not going to use, when he was painted because of others, then it affects everybody. In a highrisk, many times low reward area. Some of the things i would love to see us talk about, the thin blue line demotes a separation between order and chaos. It should always be there. No one should look at our police force and know this is what keeps us all safe no matter who we are or what our beliefs or color of our skin. Its what keeps us different than the rest of the world. A safe, Orderly Police force that carries out our laws faithfully and executes them to the best of their ability. But too i served in that Police Working group and been all over the country, and we have problems in our police force because there are too many folks who are bad actors who get pushed from one job to another. Talk honestly, talk honestly. You got bad actors who cant make it one job, go another police force. Do you know him . Yeah, he got another job. One police chief is saying thank god. The other police chief is saying i dont know what i got into. You know why . Pay. Benefits. The issues of communities. I live in a Rural Community in north georgia. My north georgia kids who live in some of my smaller counties, they are going to go to work, if they can with the sheriffs department, but they are making an amount that they can go 40 miles down the road and double their salary. Or if they cant make it in one of those, they know they can go somewhere else and get another job no matter their record. As we come to this hearing today, it does need to be a hearing of what ill call the terrible acts. We need to acknowledge them and we need to admit that Justice Needs to be served. There is nothing about this hearing that the 98 or 99, whatever percent you want to do of those men and women who wake up every day with only one responsibility. Taking care of their communities. And taking care of the lives that they have. And they want nothing more than these bad actors to go away so that they can do their job. And when they lay their head down at night, they know they have done their best, they want to be respected because they have done their job. And not because somebody else has acted badly. When that happens then our Law Enforcement understands we respect them, love them, and we are going to help them when they need help. For every other 10yearold kid who watches their dad go out, not knowing if they are going to come home or when they do come home they are beat up and battered because they were out helping others. When they see their dad or their mom upset because their profession, their profession, their calling is tarnished by those who would tarnish it, justice must be swift, it must be firm, and it must be fairly applied because if not, we lose who we are. We would not be who we are without our police force. We now need to help them make it better. Ith that i yield back. Chair nadler i want to note the gentlelady from massachusetts, ms. Pressley, is here with us. We thank her for attending. I will now introduce todays witnesses. Gwen carr is the mother of eric gardner who died during the course of his arrest by Police Officers. As a result thee became leading advocate for improving policing practices and facilitates this stops the day program through the nonprofit eric, eliminating racism and inequality collectively. Shes here today to share her personal experience. Ron davis served as director of the u. S. Department of Justice Community Oriented Policing Services office from 2013 to 2017. December, 2014, he was appointed to serve as executive director of the president s task force on 21st Century Policing. Prior to serving as cops director, he was chief of police in california for more than eight years and served 20 years with the Oakland Police department. Director davis received his b. A. From Southern Illinois university and completed the Senior Executives state and local Government Program at harvard university, Kennedy School of government. Patrick yoes, captain patrick yoes, National President of the fraternal order of police. Since 1984 hes served in a variety of rolls in the st. Charles Sheriffs Office in louisiana and currently the commander of the special services department. A bachelor of science from mount january State University and associated science from nickles State University. The reverend al sharpton is founder and president of the National Action network, a National Civil Rights Advocacy organization. He attended Brooklyn College and received an honorary doctorate of divinity, from bethune cook university, Virginia Union university, and Honorary Degree from a. P. Bible come ledge. James blake is a former tennis professional and host of the tennis channel. Hes also the tournament director for the miami open. I suppose we can get good tickets. Mr. Blake is here today to speak about his personal experiences ith Law Enforcement. Geno hawkins has served more than 30 years in Law Enforcement, and current chief of nay yetville poliCe Department. She also serves as executive word member of the National Organization of black Law Enforcement executives. Chief hawkins received her bachelors of science from Georgia State university. And masters from Johns Hopkins university. Shes a graduate of the f. B. I. National associates academy. Heather macdonald is the thomas w. Smith fellow at the Manhattan Institute for policy research. Shes written numerous books on the criminal Justice System and previously clerked for judge steven rhine heart on the u. S. Court of appeals to the ninth circuit. She received her b. A. From yale university, m. A. From Claire College and j. D. From Stanford University law school. Phillip atiba goff is the cofounder and president for policing equities. He serves as professor of Police Equity at john j. College of criminal justice. Hes written extensively on policing issues. He received his a. B. From harvard and m. A. And ph. D. From stanford. Finally, linda garcia, is the policing Campaign Director at the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights. Before joining the Leadership Conference, ms. Garcia served as a Trial Attorney in the special litigation section of the Civil Rights Division of the department of justice. She also served as a law clerk to judge john gleason in the Eastern District of new york. Ms. Clark received her b. A. From Hunter College and j. D. From fordham law school. My alma matter. We welcome all of our distinguished witnesses and thank femme for participating in todays hearing. If you would please rise and ill swear you in. Raise your hand, please. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge and belief so help you god. You may be seated. Let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please note that each of your written statements will be entered into the record in its entire. Accordingly, i ask that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. To help you stay within that time there is a timing light on your table. With the light switches from green to yellow you have one minute to conclude your testimony. When the light turns red, it signals your five minutes have expired. Ms. Carr, you may begin. Ms. Carr good morning. Chair nadler turn the mike on. Speak closely into it. Ms. Carr chairman nadler and members of the Judiciary Committee, i thank you for having me this morning. My name is gwen carr, i am the mother of eric gardner. Five years ago my beloved son eric was murdered by people who were supposed to serve and protect. On july 17, the Nypd Police Officers approached my son. One of them put him in an illegal chokehold. Eric cried out 11 times, i cant breathe. 11 times he said i cant breathe. But those officers who were on the scene that day, they didnt seem to care. Eric died that day. There was a video that was captured that captured the incident. Including the chokehold and my sons cry saying that he couldnt breathe. This went viral around the world. So my thought is today how come no one was held accountable . No one was held and charged for y sons death. Not only the officer that murdered my son but all the officers who were on the scene need to stand accountable for his death that day. I will never forget that day in july. I got up that morning, i spoke to eric, i spoke to him for about 10 minutes. And afterwards we said our goodbyes. He said i love you, mom. I said i love you, too, eric. Never knowing that would be our last and final conversation. My entire life was uprooted on that july day. I felt helpless in a dark place, scattered in millions of pieces. It is impossible to describe the pain that i felt that day. Losing a child is just inscribable. Having the burden of finding out exactly what happened to your child by the police who was responsible for his demise. How is it a person supposed to get answers . Who do she go to for help . Most people cant even comprehend how difficult it is to suddenly lose a child and to fight for five years and just et an ounce of accountability. It has impacted our lives in many devastating ways. Almost two months ago i lost my husband. Sense my partner in every of the word. He fought the long fight with me even though he wasnt in front of the cameras, he supported me and he really supported the the. Cause. My grand you daughter, erica, she died december 17 of a heart attack. She was only 27 years old. But when my son was murdered, she fought the good fight. She fought until she became ill. Ill say she died of a broken heart. These are the wounds of the seen and unseen from the police brutality. The loss of loved ones and no recourse, no accountability. The entire family is traumatized. Each and every time we enter the ourtroom or watch the officers responsible for my sons death get a pay raise. Or hear the department of justice saying they are not going to seek charges. Or when an officer who is the Commanding Officer of the person who was on the scene when my son was murdered said it was not a big deal. That eric laid on the ground d. O. A. I come before you today not only to share my sons story or the long quest of justice that we have been seeking for five years , but i urge you to take immediate action to imply the national changes and standings towards policing in in 2015 i stood with representative it Hakim Jeffries as we inter representative Hakim Jeffries as we introduced the bill that would make choke holds illegal under federal civil rights law. Once the bill is reintroduced this season, i call for you to support and vote for legislation. The Excessive Force the excessive use of force prevention act of 2019, please vote for it. Violent police have no place in this society. So like you said, mr. Nadler, lets get them out of there. No officer who is not there to do his job should be on the police force. So again, i ask you to please, to please vote on this bill. Chair nadler ms. Carr, thank you for your moving testimony. The committee understands how difficult this was for you. And has agreed not to subject you to questions out of respect. We now invite you to join us for the remainder of the hearing in he front row if you so desire. Mr. Davis. Mr. Davis good morning, mr. Chairman. Ranking member collins, and distinguished committee members. My name is ronald davis and i had the distinct honor of serving as director in the United States department of justice, office of Community Order policing services, in the obama administration. I also served as the executive director of president obamas task force on 21st Century Policing. Before my service in the administration, i spent close to 30 years in local policing, 20 years in the great city of oakland, california, and eight years as police chief in the great city of east palo aalto. My testimony is based on these perspectives, as well as my sperspective as a black man and father of black children. First in the 20year police veteran i know the firsthand the complex, challenging, and dangerous nature of being a Police Officer. As a police chief i had to tell a wife that her husband, one of my brave Police Officers, was shot and killed in the line of duty. I personally seen the toll being a Police Officer takes on so many. I have lost friends and colleagues to suicide. Which is growing as an exponential rate. I have also seen a lot of positive changes in policing such as Community Policing and diversity training. I know despite these efforts significant risks of disparities still exist. I do not believe the disparities exist because the profession is full of racist. I believe they exist because of structural racism. Many of the systems and practices and policing that exist today were designed in the 1950s and 1960s to enforce discriminatory laws and oppress black americans. We must acknowledge the history of policing in this country and the role that police have played in enforcing discriminatory laws and continue to play through doctor own cohnian discriminatory policing practices. With that being said, i think its fair to say that positive changes have started. Especially through some of the work of president obamas task force on 21st Century Policing. As i testify here today here, mr. Chairman, my concern is not that we havent made progress. My concern is that this department of justice is attempting to stop this progress by returning to the failed policies and practices of the 1980s and 1990s, policies that resulted in unequal justice. I was a street cop in oakland during the 1980s and 1990s. Can i till this nostalgia for the policing practices of those years is dangerously misplaced. I worked in units that made thousands of arrests of men of color while watching the homicide rate climb to record levels. I witnessed these practices destroy the future of thousands of young men of color with unfair sentencing practices. We now know these practices cause significant Collateral Damage and did not work. What did work in oakland was Community Policing and use of evidencebased programs such as operation ceasefire and focused deterrent strategies. There will be those that will argue that the tactics of the 1990s did work. I guess if taking lot of people to jail and having statistical crime numbers go up and down is success, then it worked, but in our democracy Public Safety is not just the absence of crime, it must include the presence of justice. And this idea taken from dr. Kings quote, peace must serve as the foundation how we evaluate all policing practices in our criminal Justice System. As most of you, the american policing system is by design deexcept tralized and controlled locally so policing practices are accountable to local Community Values and priorities. It is especially disheartening to hear the attorney general of the United States attack local mayors and prosecutors for the efforts to respond to their local community. It is also disheartening to hear people, including those in this administration, talk about how he they support the men and women of Law Enforcement, yet their actions do not back this rhetoric. Dont tell me you support Law Enforcement and local control of police then threaten to take away Grant Funding if local police refuse to enforce federal immigration laws. Dont talk about cops having the resources necessary to do their job and then vote against funding for the cops office to hire and train more cops. Do not demand Community Respect for Law Enforcement while advocating for those very policies that you know will destroy that trust. I remind you that in new york it was first the officers and their union that was against stop question and frisk but it was implemented. When went bad, the officers were played. Now the Justice Department is advocating to return to those same policies they are ignoring the lessons of the past while ignoring voices from the field. Policing officers and placing officer and the community in untenable conditions. Through its grands programs, technical assistance, and civil rights enforcement, the Justice Department can play a role to help out the 16 to 18,000 Police Agencies in the United States. To make sure that the department has four cops or 40,000 cops that they have access to the best policies and training and practices in the country. There is much the federal government can do to help police. Since my time is mind winding down ill give awe couple recommendses. The first is that we rescind the sessions memo and restore the ability for the Civil Rights Department to conduct pattern and practice investigations. That we work collaboratively with local Law Enforcement and communities to develop new and Innovative Strategies to enhance Public Safety. We restore funding to train officers and deputies in impliesity bias and procedural justice. Increase funding to the National Institute of justice to exexand its capacity to conduct research and evaluate crime strategies. We work with local prosecutors instead of criticizing them to reform the criminal Justice System. That we stand the efforts to develop strategy to enhance officer safety and wellness, and that we support the racial profiling to make sure that accountability is in every department in this country. As a black man and former cop, i should be able to drive anywhere in this country and expect the same constitutional treatment and should not be depending how big the department is or how much money they have. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Chair nadler thank you. Mr. Yoes. Mr. Yoes good morning. Chairman nadler, Ranking Member collins, distinguished members of the committee. I thank you for the opportunity to appear here today and speak on behalf of the nearly 350,000 members of the fraternal order of police. Just over a month ago i was elected president of the National Fraternal order of police. We were the nations oldest and largest Law Enforcement organization. My testimony has been submitted for the record and with the chairmans permission i would like to summarize it. My profession is evolving. Some of these changes are driven by technology. Others by society. And of course by our own internal efforts to improve Public Safety and the services we provide to the communities. As the Law Enforcement officer i spent 35 years of my career answering calls for help. Im here today to let you know that the fraternal order of police is ready to sit with anyone who generally wants to work collectively to help improve policing in this country. Today we are calling on you for your help. Law enforcement officers were once universally respected. Parents would tell their children, if you need help find a Police Officer. This may no longer be true. Recent events indicate that a growing percentage of the general public view officers with suspicion and disdain. In far too many cases its escalated into physical hostility. We are public servants, not public enemies. We live and raise our families in the same communities and vested in the success of these communities. Our jobs are becoming increasingly dangerous. And we should attacks on our Law Enforcement officers have been increasing. A recently study by the f. B. I. Concluded that many of the cases were motivated by a desire to hurt or kill a policer. Congress needs to act to reduce this targeted violence by passing h. R. 1325, the protect and serve act introduced by representatives rutherford and demings. Chief, thank you. Thank you for your steadfast support for Law Enforcement. This will not make every attack on an officer a federal crime, what it will do is give the u. S. Department of justice a tool in certain limited circumstances to fight back against targeted attacks like those that occurred in dallas, texas, baton rouge, louisiana in my home state. Last year this committee passed this legislation unanimously. The house passed it overwhelmingly a vote of 38235. Passing this legislation again would demonstrate that this house supports the men and women in Law Enforcement because right now we are feeling abandoned. These changes in attitudes are having an impact on our ability and profession to retain and recruit the best and brightest. Applications for positions in Law Enforcement have decreased this year by as much as 66 . Leaving too many agencies short shifted and overworked. My organization is also working to improve. We have engaged many of the organizations here today. Represented here today on issues of body cameras and improving Law Enforcement transparency while still protecting privacy rights. We have participated in each and every Public Meetings of the president s task force on 2 isst Century Policing and we have supported the majority of that bodys finding and we have worked with this committee to implement many of them. We have engaged with the administration and many of the groups represented here today to support the historic first step act. While many of our fellow Law Enforcement organizations chose to withhold their support, the f. O. P. Was able to support it because we were engaged in the conversation and were able to and committed to improving not just our profession but the criminal Justice System as a whole. I think everyone could be proud of the results because we achieved it by working together. Another issue of which there is bipartisan support is addressing the issue of Mental Health and wellness amongst the men and women in Law Enforcement. Being a Police Officer is not easy. It ist has evolved to include the role of therapist, marriage counselor, addiction specialist, and spiritual advisor. Some statistics suggest a Police Officer will experience more traumatic events in a six month period than an average person will experience in a lifetime. It can take a tremendous toll on a persons physical and mental wellbeing. First responders have five times more ptsd depression than a civilian. Yet there is little has been done to address this and a number of police suesides seems to be grossly underreported. In 2017, there were 140 officers took their own lives. In contrast in that year, 46 officers were fatally shot and killed in the line of duty. Police officers run towards danger while most run away. Rather than cast them aside, we ve a moral and fish phi douche rarery responsibility. The passage of legislation like Law Enforcement Mental Health and wellness act and supporting and treating of officers in crisis act, will certainly help us grapple with this issue. Timely, my profession must continue to work hard to build trust and respect for the communities we protect. There must be an open dialogue and willingness to build consensus. We cannot do it alone and i promise you the fraternal order of police will do its part. I thank you again tore the opportunity to speak here today. Im here for questions. Chair nadler thank you, reverend sharpton. Reverend sharpton thank you, chairman nadler, and Ranking Member collins. As president of National Action network i submitted my testimony. I would like to summarize it by saying that what we really seek is this committee to begin moving toward federal law and federal standards that would define clearly where the line is in terms of Excessive Force and take this argument from a state and local level to where there is a federal standard that all must abide by. What we have seen in the last several years is that in different cities where we are called in, in every case we have fought, including the cases that e have submitted this morning, mother Michael Brown has submitted testimony from ferguson, missouri. The mother of Stephon Clark submitted testimony. We have seen different counties react different ways. It reminds me of my studying the early stages of the 1960s of the movement for civil rights. Until the federal government stepped in, they would have to fight state by state, county by county, against seggre gigs. Segregation. So it was the judgment of Martin Luther king jr. And others to appeal for federal Government Intervention rather than fight in alabama, then have to fight in georgia, etc. , etc. In where the Justice Department them be over and supervise because there was a pattern and demonstrated Excessive Force. Present administration came in, they immediately in several of those cities. They have not been in long investigation. An so what was the determination that made them decide that they stop what had been determined by the justice an rtment before them after investigation . This committee needs to incoming e why attorney general sessions, barr, ithheld and removed this designation, because it really sends the signals that we will this to continue even department, not National Action network, not black lives mat earn, the said there rtment was a pattern. I think we need certain standards in terms when we talk cameras that they must be regulated where they off. Cut the body camera we must define, when we look at five years waiting on a decision from the federal on whether charges will be brought and we read ublic notices that the Civil Rights Division wanted to charge, but the locals didnt want to charge. Go through have to this, it shows, again, how nebulous and undefined the laws are. Just as civil rights activists the federal to government 50 years ago to interve us from and save states rights mentality, we need o rise above states rights mentality and Law Enforcement law. Et federal the head of f. O. P. Said they would be at the head of the discussions to see where there can be consensus because we do need consensus. Let me repeat, when police are killed, we are standing firmly that. T ms. Carr and i led a march when two policemen were killed in new york. Another was killed, the family had invited me to see them. Unions got angry. We gave 5,000. We are not antipolice. Brutality. Olice but even when we stand up when yet e are killed, we have to see Police Unions stand up one time when one of their someone in the community unjustifiably. Saying every policemen are wrong. The majority of them go out with wonder whether they will come home and they protect all of us. Step outside the law must be punished and the ederal government must make that happen. Antipolice. About this is about upholding the law, and no one should want bats cops punished more than good cops names are smeared. Hearing 11 times i cant breathe. Nd you got to go through five years of torment and finally be turned down and got to beg, and march to just take his job. This is not what america should be about. And others can excuse it. Think its on the congress to act. The president says, i hate cops. No, i just dislike the president. I dont hate cops. Thank you, mr. Chairman. [applause] chairman nadler, members of thank iciary committee, you for the opportunity to speak here. In 2015 i was standing and for a car in 42nd street in manhattan when i believe we have the video, this happened. [video clip]] is extremely s vulnerable and inferior ating when i knew i did not do nothing wrong. Uckily for me i made it out alive. What happened to me was unfortunate but it could have easily been tragic with only changes. I was aware of the possibility, from the mayor and the list on and on. These are tragedies that did not need to happen. Was aware that this was happening, i needed to speak up. It was amazing in me, when i was in new york, how many people ame up to me with similar stories, worst stories or repeated incidents. They didnt have the ability to talk about ess or the incident on good morning talk to the police chief. Am fully aware that this clearly made a difference. Was in Ce Department damage control and stated they were investigating whether force was used and i was only in cuffs for less than a minute. Had there been no video it would word against the police. We know how this goes. Because there is a video and it my account of the incident, there was a public apology with the mayor and police chief. Me more responsibility to find a way to hold the city accountable. Everybody has the ability to have abuses. Too often families of the not sed are undermined and believed. As weve seen with clear cut and including eric garner small, police raised questions nd alternate theories in spite what our eyes see on the tape. Accountability is an issue that case. S a nerve with this this country the state the country is in right now is the accountability. I am confident there will be plenty of statistics with the accountability. I feel compelled to give my own experience. Broad daylightin without raising a hand or making any move to run. Officer that y an already had numerous complaints excessive ents for force. Be public D Information database for all. The hearing for discipline were dragged out nearly two years and he lost five vacation days. Week of work. Which i would have lost far more tour from been on the injuries sustained. Was still le, he collecting his paychecks from the city of new york. This gets at some of the Serious Problems ive seen. Are based on past precedent. Was when the police were policing themselves. The board to suggest firing they clearly let me know they could not and do that. Any hope of er getting it as it looked like preferential treatment for a celebrity. Preferential treatment. I wanted justice. I couldnt think of a more ppropriate case to set a new precedent with. If this was supposed to be a deterrent, i couldnt imagine the atuesdayed of abusing power and authority. Worse still, it may embolden worse and do much feel like they can again get away with this behavior. O me, this leaves blood on the hands of those in power to stop abuses before they can escalate. I am one example of the harm suffered by countless people suffered at the hands of police country. Their stories remain untold. Ntil we know this, it will be difficult to have police reform. Ensure the deaths in Police Custody is enforced by dorj. O. J. Congress department of justice. We must pass the pride act, sponsored by congressman joaquin castro. Bills require reporting on Law Enforcement stops, searches, actions. Rce and other i think of my encounter with the about how i did not have a flight or flight. Ric garner was put in a choke hold. A choke hold that was still used and led to his death. Pick up the prohibit force act, to use of this force against Law Enforcement. These acts cant change what happened to me. They cant bring back walker scott or graham but can make a in thwarting those types of differences before they happen and have a level of if they do ty happen. To k you for having me here help community and police situations. Relations. Chair nadler thank you. Ranking member collins, house of the u. S. Representatives committee on the judiciary. I bring you greetings on behalf board and utive members of the National Organization of black law executives, noble. Chief hawkins my name is gina the chief of police for the poliCe Department north carolina. Its an honor to be here for noble to provide written estimony on the topic of policing oversight. Noble has been at the forefront f promoting Police Accountability since the organizations inception in 1976. Is to ensure equity in the administration of justice public provisions of service to all communities and to serve as a conscience of Law Enforcement. Committed to justice by action. Law enforcement agencies and have a aders that sibility to ensure justice is administered fairly in all communities. Noble member chief and sheriff agencies lves and our to a high professional standard, ensuring that officers and we serve and protect are aligned with the priority safety. Yones police are not perfect and we steps to improve service, build trust in our communities and increase operational transparency. Involved in n National Level discussions on he key areas of Police Accountability, use of force and reducing gun violence. Here has been universal recognition expressed by noble to the United States Department Justice on the importance of maintaining a level of Police Accountability and the form of previous model of the collaborative reform initiative, r similar style federal resources. Law enforcement agencies that their operations use the nationally adopted lueprint for 21st Century Policing and build trust on legitimacy with their communities should be afforded technical assistance, Resources Available for punitivent without any federal level recourse. Also have ers should access to highquality policing rofessionals who can assist that agency with assessing areas for improvement and developing modernize their Police Operations and cultures meet the need of the 21st Century Policing as already outlined by the department of justice. As chief of the fayetteville poliCe Department, my predecessor used the Technical Resources provided through the collaborative form a help the agency develop strategy to improving engagement all levels of the department and particularly with communities of color. Ur department did not shy away from taking a close look at our training, traffic and pedestrian top data to identify areas of improvement. Today, we are better informed and engaged department because i and leadership that other noble leaders provide to their agency because we to measure upneed to the expectations of our policing s and ensure is a credible profession respected in our communities for trustworthy, fair to everyone we serve and protect. He federal government can play an Important Role in influencing local municipalities and their agencies to address systemic issues that are impacting their ability to protect and serve communities. A key assumption that has been challenged by noble is that organizations can easily police themselves without and followingices the nationally adopted blueprint policing. Entury as the data shows, its very rare for the federal government consent decree. Since 1997, there have only been enforced consent decrease on Law Enforcement agencies compared to the over our 0 agencies that serve communities. Law enforcement agencies are filled with fair, honest men police n who put their uniforms on every day with the sole intent of keeping everyone safe. Deadly nstance where force is used, a Third Party Intervention could be beneficial many states and even agencies have adopted policies that lready implement this critical public trust component. The ultimate goal in Police Accountability is to strengthen legitimacy between Law Enforcement and the community. Legitimateustworthy, agency can create a safer environment for Law Enforcement the citizens of that community. Was police chief and this provide Law Enforcement Agency Leadership to over half of the in the nation. Committed to effective Community Policing and holding our agencies to the highest tandards in the policing profession. On behalf of the Law Enforcement noble, thank you for supporting Law Enforcement and our ability to maintain Public Safety while continuing to build with our ationships communities. Our members stand ready to meet the needs of our diverse communities. Thank you, again, for this opportunity to provide testimony. You. Donald. Ms. Macdonald thank you. I am the fellow at the manhattan policy research. Felony crime in the United States has dropped 50 . Lives, the usands of majority black and hispanic, have been saved, closing the expectans eye gap between whites and blacks by 17 . Drop was the result of a policing revolution that began in new york city in 1994 nationwide. Upon taking office, new York Police Commissioner william something that few Police Chiefs had ever risked. Targeticly set himself a for crime reduction. He not only met his oneyear 20 , he beat 10 but he beat it. 12 . The next year you upped the an defrocks, saying the poliCe Department would lower the crime 15 . 16 . Opped in at the idea that they would take responsibility for Public Safety was transformative. Bratton accomplished his crime oute with three main strategies timely, accountability, proactive policing. Demanded crime information in real time so that crime patterns could be addressed as broke out. Top brass held precinct ruthlessly accountable for crime in their jurisdictions and officers on to intervene asked proactively when they observed suspicious behavior. Windows policing was a crucial aspect of this policing revolution. Lowlevel social disorders such as loitering, unruly conduct, and public drug use. Nd broken windows policing is not just a crime strategy, however, imperative. It is the hardworking, law highcrime idents of neighborhoods who beseech the police to address street disorder. Any Police Community meeting in a highrisk community and you will hear the good beg the police to get the drug dealers off the streets, to clear the corners of rowdy youth, and to crack down on loud music and illegal street parties. That it is s know out of such unchecked social more serious crimes follows. 61 of black hat voters in new york city wanted the police to issue summons or arrests in their neighborhood for quality of life 59 of , compared to white voters. Should the Police Ignore their voices because they say broken racist . Policing is were told that were living in biassed Police Shooting of black men. This, too, is false. A study published this august in proceedings of the National Academy of sciences is just the undercutting the median narrative about race and Police Shootings. Rate of Violent Crimes that determines police the study found. From any given racial group, the the chance that group will be shot by a Police Officer. In fact, black civilians are less compared to whites han the rates of Violent Crime predicts, the study found. Antipolice narrative deflects attention away from criminal e real justice problem which is high rates of black victimization. Blacks die of homicide at eight the rate of whites. The homicide death rate for lack males between the ages of 1524 is 16 times higher than white men. Ng that is the civil Rights Problem that should most concern us. Black victims are killed not by cops, not by whites, but by other blacks. Blacks commit homicide nationally at eight times the hispanics tes and combined. In 2017, there were nearly 8,000 victims. Icide more than all white and homicide victims combined. 2. 8 of those black casualties, the vast majority otherwise a gun or dangerous were killed by a cop. The best solution to urban crime reconstruct the family. That is a longterm project, however. Policing ntime, the revolution that began in new york in the 1990s and spread has given lawabiding residents of highcrime freedom to greater take their children to school or o go to the Grocery Store without fear, an expectation thats the governments most fundamental obligation to meet. Policing today is more profession and restrained than its history, and there is no Government Agency ore dedicated to the proposition that black lives matter than the police. Thank you for your attention, your look forward to questions. Chair nadler thank you. Goff. R. Goff thank you, chairman nadler, distinguished members of the Judiciary Committee. Is philip goff. I am a professional nerd. A o by disposition, relatively conflict diverse my love of country and respect for this body and mostly my vocation as a me to st will not allow move to my prepared remarks just yet. Correct must at least he record on some statistical elements. Last ll of crime over the quarter century is just abjectly in response to Police Behavior alone. Like members would further reading on this i can ighly recommend the book easy peace which identities that ommunitybased antiviolence work is a large and underappreciated component of reductions in crime. Police behavior. I should say i believe that 2015 quint pack poll was just cited implying e perhaps that black people actually like broken windows policing. If memory serves that same poll showed that black people were bias ned about racial within Law Enforcement, a trend thats escalated over that period of time since 2015. To suggest that black people new ed the treatment in york or anyplace else, of broken that Elizabeth Hinton referred to as selective hearing. Convenient what is to an ideological narrative and not the fullness of what those calling for. Re which is safety and justice at the same time. Bar for t too high a Law Enforcement. Last in terms of clarification, and proceedings in the National Academies of sciences cited, and i have to say, first of all, no, thats not what it said. Oft importantly, the authors that study have recently acknowledged to the rest of the community, to some members of the Scientific Community, that their central is factually wrong. This Committee Hearing should be a dumping ground chair nadler that dr. Goff, weve heard a lot of witnesses youre testifying now about a central causal claim. Youre l us what which causal claim youre efuting, what youre talking about . R. Goff it does not show that white officers are lessor more likely to be involved in deadly shootings. Simply does not. Its a correlational study and the authors themselves have the ted to others in Scientific Community that the central causal claim that they ake which is there is no bias in this is unsupported by the data that has been made public analyzed een publicly by scholars like jonathan at ton princeton university. To be part of something that is junk science apologize for stepping out for saying so. Allowing thank you for me to testify. I m a professionor, a nerd, received tenure at ucla in the psyche department. Part of the task force of 21st Century Policing. The National Scien science one of three leads on the recently concluded epartment of Justice National initiative for Building Community justice. I am likely best known for my for the center for policing equity. The the pleasure of being president for center of policing equity which focuses on equity my testimony is in that capacity. C. P. E. Is host to what is to our knowledge the National Justice atabase funded by the u. S. National science foundation. Today, ive been asked to talk about what science has to say safety. Blic so what does it have to say . Well, first, as with all that we its important define the problem correctly. We speak only about the role hat Law Enforcement has in keeping communities safe, our conversations will never elevate blaming people for mistrust or violence. Framing should be Public Safety, just Law Enforcement. I cannot echo the comments of enough. Strongly if we are talking about Public Safety, both communities and Law Enforcement understand the patrol these neighborhoods need to be of sound mind. They need to have the resources sure that Mental Health and officer wellness are central. Defined the problem as Public Safety, what are some of the solutions . And at agues at c. P. E. The yale justice club are atory five things, called for by the large majority of our aw enforcement partners, that we believe have the best chance to produce the biggest rareness reform. Nforcement they are from the front to the back end of accountability, a for use ofdel policy force, similar to the one the tly articulated by camden poliCe Department. It demonstrates it can reduce and both by communities officers without elevating risk. Time. I am out of those five policies are also introduced into the record. I would encourage the members to it. At one last word, within this we heard a lot of talk about data. Important we move the conversation from data to analysis. Recently released ted talk talked t september 9 we about com stat for justice. Because its possible to measure crime. And ms. Macdonald was right, it the d reduce crime across country. You can measure those portion of disparities for which Law Enforcement is responsible. Importantly, this initiative at c. P. E. And similar initiatives request of at the Law Enforcement. They want to know and they want to lead on that. Got out e remiss if i of here without saying, leaving you with the impression there legislation that hasnt been introduced. He end racial profiling act does that. I thank you for the invitation. I absolutely look forward to questions. Very nadler thank you much. Ms. Garcia. Ms. Garcia chairman nadler, Ranking Member collins, members of the committee. Lynda garcia, the director of the policing leadership the Conference Education Fund and Leadership Conference on civil rights. Tonk you for the opportunity testify today and thank you, chairman nadler, for your eadership in calling this hearing to call on this hearing for police best practices. Human right, without which we cannot thrive and function. Recent years, tragic incidents of Police Violence law deepened distrust in enforcement and make people feel less safe, especially within communities of color. Rethink antiquated approaches to Public Safety that rely on criminalization and disproportionately affect black and brown people and fail issues. Ss Public Health when Police Practices harm communities, it sews mistrust hinders community engagement, both of which are critical for realizing Public Safety. Government has a role and indeed a responsibility o promote the values of fairness, equity, procedural and ce, transparency, accountability within Law Enforcement agencies. However, the current has severely curtailed the department of justices use of consent police civilddress rights abuses. It has also abandoned collaborative Reform Efforts of of Community Oriented policing services, underwhich voluntarily ments sought audits and recommendations to improve trust police. The public and this does a disservice both from communities suffering from misconduct and Police Officers ho are left without the tools to police safely. Highprofile Police Shootings of men coupled with the heavy enforcement of lowlevel offenses have eroded in many Law Enforcement communities, including those that are discriminated against race, ethnicity, religion, igin, generaledor, generaledor identity, der disability, proficiency with the english language, immigration status. And housing to be eople preserve arbitrary, unfair, they are less likely to cooperate with police, us all less safe. In march, 2019, the education era of nched the new Public Safety initiative and report to help build trust pris n communities and departments Police Departments, restore confidence mayor dime e a new of Public Safety. While much of the paradigm of Public Safety. Reform ch of the happened at the state level, we need the commitment of the federal government, including members of congress. Every year, congress provides millions of dollars to law agencies to federal Grant Programs to support police. This creates a duty for congress to conduct oversight to ensure that funds are not supporting harm practices that Public Safety and erode community trust. Additionally, this empowers congress to incentivize police 21st ments to adopt century best practices in Community Policing. Transparency, accountability, Public Safety, the Leadership Conference offers the following recommendations to the committee. Reduce the use of excessive orce by passing the Police Exercising Absolute Care with 2019. Ne act of prohibit discriminatory policing by passing the end racial and profiling act. Collection. St data end the militarization of Law Enforcement agencies by passing militarizing Law Enforcement act. Promote officer health and by redirecting grant moneys towards officer support services. Nd invest in nonpolice responses to crises by expanding communitybased Mental Health and Substance Use services. Accountability systems and hold officers accountable for constitutional conduct. S for criminal congress has the power to bring about transformative policing benefits communities and officers. You can provide officers. You can provide the support and funding to jurisdictions to implement 21st century policies are fair, es that safe, and effective. This vision of Public Safety, communities and Police Departments must rebuild trust. Era of Public Safety will require communitydriven solutions and investment in services, including education, housing, employment, and health care. Coalition is committed to ensuring policing practices that respect the dignity and humanity all people. We look forward to working with you until the day these reforms law. Signed into thank you. Hair nadler thank you very much. Since one of our witnesses specifically commented on the testimony of another of our weve been asked by the minority if she can comment, will grant 1 1 2 minutes o ms. Macdonald for that purpose. Ms. Macdonald its ironic to national dy from the academy of science as junk science. Correlational means its not a regression analysis. Evertheless, the findings remain accurate, that they found no bias in Police Shootings. Is a finding thats been supported by numerous other studies. Harvest r from 2017, economist fryer, found no racial shootings. The most Sophisticated Lab tudies of shoot, dont shoot decisions to date from the university of washington found officers were three times less ikely to shoot unarmed black suspects than unarmed white suspects and to significantly decide to shoot unarmed black suspects than armed white suspects. Shootdont shoot studies by the university of chicago carell found no police bias against black civilians. We are living through racially biassed Police Shootings is the creation of reporting. In 2015, the same year from which the academy of National Data came from, the white victims of fatal a ice shootings included 50yearold suspect in a Domestic Assault in tuscaloosa, at the officer with a spoon. A 28yearold driver in des cares, iowa, who exited his and walked quickly towards an officer after a car chase. In a 21yearold suspect Grocery Store robbery in akron, ohio, who had escaped on a bike who did not remove his hands from his waist band when uttered to do so. Black, e victims were black, the mr. Johnson regular order, mr. Chairman. Ms. Macdonald instead because they are white, they are unknown. Thank you for the opportunity. Chair nadler thank you very much. I thank the victim sorry i hank the witnesses for their testimony. We will now proceed under the fiveminute rule. I will begin by recognizing for five minutes. Dr. Goff, my first question is, comment on what we on what we heard on the etc. . Ce, r. Goff i think i can stay under my time. None of that is true. If youd like me to elaborate, i can. Chair nadler do. R. Goff the citing of the roland fryer study is something embarrassed being about. It was debunked i believe the tudy you are talking about the shootdont shoot, ms. Mac donelled is from washington state. I believe you are talking about lois james. Everyone that studies that research commented on the fact no time pressure in the simulation. Time, when you know you are being studied for racial bias it turns out you can it. Ect for when you are time pressure you have a harder time. Replicate to say at that carells research didnt two forms of racial bias you can see in these studies. One is in the error rate. Is in terms of the length of time it takes. Lack suspect were shot more quickly. White armed suspects were shot more slowly. It was only the case that there error rate for officers who had been well trained and were not in specialty units like gang and swat units. Newer officers had a rate of rror that was as high if not higher than regular civilians. Ut all this is beside the point. The idea that there isnt bias is its just not a serious you look at the coprus of the science. Of her there is corpus the science. Whether there is bias, what the a worthy of bias is discussion. When you are looking in just the hearts and minds of officers, see it. N do not i am not saying that because there are disparities out there officers holdthat in their heart defective character. In fact, it is frequently not situations that produce despairate outcomes. We need to define what those situations are and keep officers it. Of rice was noted by the chairman earlier. Very close to re an individual who might have had a weapon but that is, in the of my chiefs i deal with, ften a situation that can be avoided. The way you avoid that, you dont put your car up next to someone you think is armed. Maintain a safe distance. Now, the officers dont need to be bigoted in their hearts to in something that was detrimental, a pattern of towards al findings black communities. So if we define that narrowly as the only problem, again, we elevate to solving it. So the question of the science, none of that was right. Of how do we n move forward, we should define the problem more precisely so debating whether or not officers are good or bad people. Thats not scientifically from a policy perspective. Chair nadler thank you very much. Sharpton [applause] chair nadler you represented misconduct. Lice can you talk about navigating the process and pursuing complaints . Reverend sharpton i think the all, s begins, first of nash action never gets involved in this. We are asked, as i said earlier. Part is to try and the local authorities to convene a grand deal with the possible criminality of the act family. Upport the nash Action Network at the same ms. Carr will tell you, whatever resources we can and hatever help we can because they have been traumatized. Settlements,ere are some of them large, we dont ask for reimbursement. Theres nothing in this for us. Premise of fighting, though, is, one, against those may discriminate but also against Excessive Force if it is not a person of color. I listen to the exchange panel, the nerds on the we are willing to fight for victims of are Excessive Force. There was an Orthodox Jewish man killed by police in bush. Rk named i goedian i am here for white people and black people and any other eople that are victims of Excessive Force. When we talk about consent decrease, when we talk about aboutameras, when we talk the things we said today, mr. Chairman, we are not talking only. For blacks police ought not violate anybodys civil rights. I think that is whats important. Chair nadler thank you. Chief davis, before my time expires, in your testimony you recommended the sessions memo be rescinded. Can you describe the sessions memo and describe its effects on policing practices and why it rescinded . Mr. Davis thank you. Put ney general sessions out a memo that curtailed the activity of the civil rights in conducting pattern or practices of investigation. Hat memo also stopped the volunteer organizational assessments that chief hawkins fayetteville. N the impact of not having pattern investigations, not having assessments means departments cannot learn whats happening in their own organizations. Transparentsies. Ou cant do an there are no transparentsies. Transparencies. There were four, five reports that were completed, as i ended my administration with president they failed to release with communities begging for the release. Walter arleston with scott, fayetteville with chief places, a few other milwaukee, and so this idea that we heard from the department of not author we will any report thats critical of Law Enforcement is quite frankly a disservice to Law Enforcement. When you talk to chiefs around the country, they want to know whats inside the organization, working, whats not working, and to do so. About the consent decrease. People think about the consent as somehow a detriment policing. They side with the city, not the poliCe Department. Because in many cases its City Government that also needs oversight to make sure officers have the training, have the equipment, accountable, that there is a strong disciplinary process. Just about Police Departments. Its about doing so. Decrees served as a foundation for thousands of agencies to voluntarily make the implement the best practices. As you mentioned as mentioned, 16,000 agencies in mr. Chairman,tes, and the average is smaller than 100 officers. Toy do not have the capacity do research and development to identify best practices and happening in ts the industry. This profession must become a need to have we national coherence, National Best practices and accountability that comes with decrees. Chair nadler thank you very much. My time has expired. Mr. Entleman from georgia, collins. Senator collins thank you, mr. Chairman. To last conversation, i want pick up some of this. There are a lot of ways we can question. His i am one, especially serving on this committee, having the background i do, and what you was Community Policing is something that worked. We had to put money back in this it was getting stripped out. We put that money back in in the accounting process. A lot of it works on levels. I consider part crazily enough a nerd on the i believe facts matter and we can deal on day long. L chief, you are in fayetteville, north carolina, a military community. An interesting place that is a nice i have been air there from the air force. One thing i am seeing is we hear from smaller forces. You represent the National Organization. Ow do we come to grips without a national, heres how you do it, again, leaving it to states, how do we come up with a system were better reporting . As i said in my opening bad actors. He im sure as chief want the bad put them in jail. How do we do that to give the smaller forces, the fourman fiveman forces new york city, we talk about this but there is an we rlying current here that dont talk about because, frankly, they dont have the coverage. How can we do this through the National Organizations and others to help Police Chiefs, others, ommissioners, and just this was get a better quality there . It cant be all money. All dealing with budgets. How do we do that . To hear your comments on that. Chief hawkins thank you. S i mentioned in my testimony, all agencies and all departments need to have the ability to ask assistance in examples like the collaborative reform to be able to ask that question or to ask another professional who has figured out some things and provide those resources. Noble stance. To make those ow requests to do best practices. A Smaller Agency may not have have the ces but may ability to make a phone call to a National Organization saying, can you send someone thats near your area . Anyone can call me and my agency and we do it all the time. E share information consistently. What did you do . What else are you doing . Dont have to reinvent the wheel but we can get guidelines. You to collins i want engage in this. I think this is a road hits road kind of thing. I am concerned not only calling but how much are we a new this, i need officer, i need to get rid of this one . How did he do . Guy. A good known him a while. Click. Is there anyway we can look at that a little bit further . Chief hawkins ill share a little bit because i am from georgia, actually, and most of y Law Enforcement what georgia did and what north arolina does as well is the certification. Whenever someone leaves the rganization, both certifications outline why they left and whats going on so the aware ganization is well and of what the any issues oing on and why they have been released. Senator collins in georgia eve mr. Collins in georgia, its hiphop from one job to the next. They are the ones in trouble. Pattern. Nsistent chief hawkins its less and less. Mr. Collins its getting there. Agree. Patrick, your thoughts on this. Mr. Yoes i agree with her comments. Tell you my experiences in Law Enforcement and when officers leave from agency to agency does an extensive background that determines their liability and with hing else associated it. There are standards in given states that determine, that follow that officer in that their cation within state. Everyone for the most part, even though every state has its own standards, police standards, based on the same criteria so agree what you said. Lets peel the onion back a little bit. Supposed to y its happen. We also know, if you are down officers, you got a fivepernfors, its hard fiveperson force, its harder. Dont have to pay for schooling. I can get them in now. He told me there was a problem chief. E police i agree with the certification in georgia weve seen this. How do we i know what the story is. The the question is, though, how oes that seep down to the departments that frankly dont have the resources to do that and are under pressure to keep their force . Chief hawkins i can only speak as a leader, as leader of noble, police chief, there is no standard that im going to thats going to weigh out the qualified e someone and someone who will represent i because basically when hire someone and all the Background Investigation is done, thats what i do. Yoes, lins you and mr. All are the gold standards here. Hats why were asking these questions. In the Bigger Picture, we dont just look at the Bigger Picture nd dont just discuss the problems. Thats all there. These are the nuts and bolts issue. You have. Goff said, to find the mentality. There is a temperament to a Police Officer. State patrol face, they never smile. There is a temperament to this. You have to take it into account. You have to eat everything and go forward and divert it fairly. A lot more stuff we can discuss here. Glad were here with it. One quick question does your cameras . T use body chief hawkins yes. R. Collins did you have a problem with cost storage . Chief hawkins of course, sir. Have a smallif you community, thats a tough, tough issue right there. I do appreciate the chairmans and i yieldver time back. Chair nadler the gentleman yields back. Texas. Tlelady from ms. Jackson lee let me thank the chairman and Ranking Member say his hearing and let me to all of the witnesses, every spect of your testimony is vital to a construct that we in the Judiciary Committee now feel long overdue which is a policing agenda that facts edges the basic that every human being deserves to go home to their family. Believe thats the most striking point that comes and to our friends in Law Enforcement, are no more diminished than tamar rice. Than e no more diminished eric garner who, as his loving said, was her son but a father of six and a grandfather. Nd maybe there is a grandchild now that hes missed who has been added to this wonderful family. I hope that we dont have to to tell you test all of our friends in Law Enforcement, all of our all of the prayers. The time i flew to dallas when officers fell in their duty. Or the many funerals that ive in to of the men and women blue. But we wont get together if we divide of the emergi emerging White Nationalism and supremacy and see the sea departed and separated from each other. I just want to ask these questions that would hopefully et us to the point that we can resolve this. President yost president yoes, your predecessor committed to working with the congress to ensure Data Collection and reporting on Police Community encounters. Make the same commitment by ensuring that states and oliCe Departments will comply with the death and custody reporting law, and will you Work Congress to advance legislation, really, a Law Enforcement agenda that would Data Collection, reporting on other Police Community encounters and also to profiling . Mr. Yoe mr. Yoes we are very much collection. Data its valuable information for us how to move forward, how to properly. There are a number of agencies that have the ability, that ollects the data and available now. Its usable. Something we can put our hands right help us move in the direction. The one concern we have is the smaller agencies and their to collect order that data and our concern would be, agencies that are small, data may,collect that in essence, affect their ability to be able to police. Ms. Jackson lee we are going to respond. Mr. Yoes to respond to that, i thing is, mportant the collection of data needs not e tied to any type of Grant Funding or anything like that. To agencies, thats counterproductive. Ms. Jackson lee do you believe Law Enforcement, however, should not engage in racial profiling . Its unconstitutional. I absolutely agree. Ms. Jackson lee any legislation that would make that imple point, you can take back and support . Mr. Yoes i think the constitution very clear that its illegal and already on its there. Exists. Ms. Jackson lee so then it would not be offensive to have legislation that provides grants opportunities to ensure that does not happen . Mr. Yoes its unconstitutional. The law is already spoken. Ms. Jackson lee i take that as a yes. The question to mr. Blake. Do you were speechless, but the also speechless for lives lost, whose names i will call. Clearly, you were racially profiled. Encounter, a n language, a comment, ask who your name was or anything of the sort . No. Blake didnt have any sort of fight or flight response. I actually if you watch the video closely, which we dont was actuallyain, i smiling. It was due to my previous life as a tennis player. The ually was under misguided opinion that this may have been someone coming to give a fan in some regard. I find myself extremely lucky could i thought, what possibly happen had i thought someone was coming to do me harm . Speaking to many officers since then i thought about i asked them what would have happened if i put my arms up, if an effort to fight, or if my brother or one of my best me or my wife th and had acted in any way accordingly . Ms. Jackson lee you were man of color standing in front of a prominent hotel in manhattan . N mr. Blake right outside Grand Central station. Ms. Jackson lee we need to racial profiling along with other important legislative initiatives. Mr. Blake yes. Can i ask, dr. goff, because of my time let witnesses. All the let me thank ms. Garcia for brown, ng black and women, other individuals that may be profiled in different ways. Have statistics ton toant reverend sharp indicate this, the higher number of africanamericans killed by enforcement, i think the point i want to distinguish is, this whole question that comes blackonblack crime, what i hope is well pass study , the Commission Rep ration, so we can address the systemic issue and the impact on slavery. Relates to this bias about, oh, black people kill distinctionmake the of color of law, because what were talking about is democracy. Ere talking about the response. So if both of you will answer law ifference when enforcement is engunshot in the of engaged in the likes tamar rice and Michael Brown and eric garner, the color of brown, goff. Chair nadler the gentleladys time has expired. The itness may answer question. Reverend n lee sharpton. Dr. Goff thank you for the question. Ts different because it feels different for the community. There is a difference between a eighbor who is who is violent, which is obviously scary. Says it ok, its terror. We see that both in the and nses from communities in the responses, frankly, from Law Enforcement. I think one of the things you mentioned was important. To put a fine point on the statistical element. Blackonblack crime, is the response thats enforcement is using force in black communities. Distasteful as it may seem, its a reasonable statistical question. If may be problem that poverty is driving this. As an answerable question well. There is not a study that takes nto account, poverty rates, school achievement, housing inequality that yields anything elements, crimee and poverty, are not sufficient to explain racial disparities. Be able to distinguish between the two. Chair nadler reverend sharpton, briefly. Reverend sharpton i concur with dr. Goffs answer. Would also say for the record that when we had campaigned frisk in new nd york, saying it was discriminatory, and the new dministration came in and reduced it down to nothing, crime went down. Crime is at an alltime low. Im not a nerd, but i can read and write. Down with stop and frisk gone. I think that we need to be very, clear about that. And as far as blackonblack crime, think in any Community People are the victim of the people of their same race. The problem in the black that we have fear of cops and robbers. You. R nadler thank the gentleladys time has expired. The gentleman from ohio. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Want to thank all the witnesses for coming here today. We really do appreciate it. Earlier this year, we held a on universal background checks, and a few weeks ago, held a hearing on red flag legislation, and as i nderstand it, next week the committee will hold a hearing on assault weapons and gun violence areas. An and while i appreciate the majoritys focus on gun control egislation and think its important that this Committee Act in a responsible manner, i that their efforts are misdirected. Mr. Chabot im a Firm Believer amendment rights and laws like the ones that are this ed by the majority year unfortunately, im frayed, im afraid, would restrict the rights of owners. Ing gun they have remedies that sound good but would have done little the attacks that weve seen occur in the nation. Afraid would im do little to stop future attacks that might occur. Need to Work Together to find a way that we can make americans safer. Let me ask you. You are the National President f. O. P. , the fraternal order of police, is that correct . Sir. Oes yes, mr. Chabot . Thank you. I want to thank you for being here today and representing the women across america who keep us all safe. That. Nk you for in my home state, ohio, its a who ity that those shouldnt have firearms cant get access to those firearms. To be ts what we ought working on, making sure those people who arent eligible cant get them. Shouldnt guns should not be in the wrong hands. Ne way that this could be accomplished is to ensure that the nics system, the National Criminal background check system, is accurate, that its leave this ing to hearing at this point. You can continue to watch it website our cspan. Org. The u. S. House is about to gavel in in just a moment. Expected to start work