Transcripts For CSPAN Executive-Legislative Branch Relations Panel At William Mary 20240714

Ms. Compton thank you very much. We have an incredibly talented group of peo ective that you have not considered before on our topic today. Let me introduce them one by one. First, madam president of the National Conference of state legislatures representing illinois 47th district, senator tori hutchinson. [applause] former United States senator and former governor of the criminals of virginia, george allen. [applause] former governor of South Carolina, jim hodges. [applause] leader of they u. S. House of representatives, eric cantor. [applause] and finally, a former Senior Adviser and deputy chief of staff in the white house for george w. Bush, the amazing karl rove. [applause] ms. Compton doesnt always seem that the moment we are living in is the most chaotic, the most dysfunctional that we have ever seen in american politics . Though looking back in history, it is really not. What you all to explore what it is at the federal level and at the state level that has made this government so dysfunctional and so problematic, and how, looking forward, are there ways that all of you can help get past that . When i graduated from college in virginia, i went right into my first job. I covered the Virginia State legislature for Wdbj Television in roanoke. Talk about dysfunctional. The first republican governor had just been elected since reconstruction with a democratic attorney general who wanted to be the democratic governor. Richmond was a war zone, just to walk between the Attorney Generals Office and the governors mansion. End of the phone rang while i sat in the basement of the State Capitol in the press room, and it was abc news asking if i would come up and be interviewed to be in network correspondent. 1974, after just four years in virginia, i go up, and abc news sends me into the white house north lawn just weeks after president Richard Nixon had left on the south lawn, the only president in history to resign in disgrace. Talk about constitutional crises. When the American Fabric of our society has been torn apart with protests against the vietnam war, watergate, civil rights. So that we ask each of you not to come up with some ideas or some thoughts, and i will actually go out of order and start with governor alan sorry, governor hodges of South Carolina, because you come not a state that is now red, but also the democrat primary can be decisive for democrats. Talk about not only your experience as governor but also your experience on the National Stage as one of the cochairs of president obamas campaign. Mr. Hodges first of all, thank you for choosing beauty ahead of age rather than george. It is great to be here. I enjoyed last night as addition as well last nights presentation as well. As you pointed out, everybody believes the times they operated in were run better than what is currently happening. I imagine George Washington probably crossed Thomas Jefferson and talked about how bad things were with jefferson in charge, and it seems that different with people in political office. My observation growing up in a small mill town in South Carolina and seeing the changes that have occurred, i have an appreciation for why we have the trouble we have. You are in a country politically divided roughly 5050, when you look at elections. Generally every election, it is about 5050, which makes people have starkly different views on our country. When you think about it have been through in the past decade, you understand peoples lack of trust in our institutions. You have had the great recession, we have a situation where people over 60 were in jobs that they assumed were permanent and now they are not. We have moved from defined in a fit land to 401 k plans to sometimes no retirement at all. We have had people who havent had wage increases for periods of time, we have opioid problems, you go through the , theof things going on Rural Communities in our country suffered a great deal i think you begin to understand some of the issues out there and peoples lack of trust in institutions to salvage problems. Because they believe that whether it is Corporate America or banks, or elected officials like us, many of them believe they have been let down and they have a lack of confidence. Then you add to that i know this has been talked about here we used to have a watercooler conversation around the three networks, what they provided, or what the local newspaper provided in terms of news. Now we have this dispersed opportunity to get data that we want. We have the opportunity to shut out things you dont want to hear. And i think more more people are choosing avenues where their views are reinforced rather than being educated. I say that as a prelude to understand why things are harder now than they once were. When you stuck about on top of the system in washington that seems designed around keeping things from happening, rather than making things happening, it leads to frustration not only for policymakers like eric and others, but also for the american public. At the state level, i think there is good reason why things work better. One is that virtually every state has to pass a budget every year. You can jam a lot of things in the budget and you are doing things that affect teacher pay raises and the environment, criminal justice, things that are important, but you have to get it done. It makes states seem more functional. In many ways, they probably are because they have these impediments they have to get done to be able to keep things going. Ms. Compton your colleague, george allen, you are not only avernor, but you experienced republican government with a democratic legislature, but of course, you come up and you have the washington experience as well. You once compared the pace in the United States summit when you got there is moving at the sea slug. Wounded what . [laughter] allen it is true, i did say that. Generally, i look at our history in our society from where i grew up as a family. Where we ought to have a meritocracy regardless of race,nes background, ethnicity, whatever, has the opportunity to succeed on a level playing field. As governor, i made more decisions in one morning than you do in one week in the senate. In fact, my first made in speech in the senate was on behalf of a judicial candidate, Roger Gregory, who was in your Previous Panel on the judiciary, he is now chief judge of the Fourth Circuit court of appeals. Mike thomas and i met with him right after i got sworn in, and he had been nominated by president clinton right at the end of his term. Typical of the senate, it was held up and nothing happened, but he was on the bench. The republicans were in control of the senate. President bush was soon to be inaugurated. Mike and i, i think that is you over there, chief justice that is you, good, thank you judicial recognition. Anyway, i talked with the candidate to see what his judicial philosophy was. I was so proud to listen to him today and so glad to see everyone applauding to his commitment to the constitution and our Representative Democracy. Wented up thinking, when i in to see judge, i was skeptical that you were a clinton appointee but i got to see his qualifications and capabilities, and my first speech of the senate floor was above my colleagues to go all it takes and process and so forth, and look at judge gregory as an individual. I sawmber karl rove said, the speech you may down there, what do you think of it . I said, i may be wrong, but my point of view is that you all ought to interview him as well and i think he will be just as impressed as i was. I just took forever. So president bush renominated him along with about a dozen other judges, and it took forever to get the senate to vote for him, and the most opposition was from fellow republicans. I was getting more aggravated, i said, it doesnt matter, we have him. H votes for on one of them said, i am still upset, president clinton nominated him. I said, i do care, just vote, darn it. And we finally got the vote. Justice Roger Gregory is the first africanamerican to serve on the Fourth Circuit court of appeals. Cochrans desk for the final vote. His desk, as everyone knows it, as jefferson daviss desk. And there was a young person, bill thomass son who was a page, africanamerican. They always ask senators, do you want a drink of water, i said, sure. I said, by the way, i will give a speech and will finally get the vote to have the first africanamerican, on the Fourth Circuit court of appeals and i will give the speech on jefferson daviss desk. Young mr. Thomas said, thats really cool. [laughter] that is how the senate operates, slowly. They need to set priorities, they need to have the governor not only pass a budget, there needs to be a balanced budget. You set priorities. You cant say yes to everything. I think the states are going to be the way we repel the federal government to finally have a balanced budget. Secondly, they need to get back to basics. It is awful. Susan and i watch people when the Government Shutdown because the did not pass the budget, government workers, i am thinking, oh my goodness. In the real world, if you dont get your job done, you dont get paid. I think members of congress, their salaries ought to be withheld if they dont get Appropriations Bills done on time and get back to basics. [applause] we needthe state level, redistricting reform so we have more fair, compact districts, rather than these maps that look like somebody flung spaghetti at the state map. I think voters ought to be choosing their leaders rather than politicians picking their voters. [applause] ms. Compton will thank you, governor. Lets before over to the white house. And onou are the all new this panel who as far as i know has never run for office, but boy, demonstrating my superiority over my colleagues. [laughter] ms. Compton but when you look at the balance between the tension between the legislative and the executive from your at the white house all those years and our campaigns, what do you blame for the dysfunction . Mr. Rove festival, thank you for having me. Second of all, i will do great damage to governor hodgess reputation by agreeing with him. We are in a disruptive moment in american politics where the two parties are at each others throats, where washington doesnt seem to work, where we are going through a populist moment. The good news is, we have been here many tens before. The first time there was a physical altercation on the United States congress was in wentwhen two congressman at each other with hand irons. Out of the fireplace in the representative chamber. We have had populist moments before. My sense is governor yardley avidly went home after the first meeting in the house of burgess and probably said to his wife, honey, you cant imagine what a bunch of morons with have in the house of burgess. This hasnt happening continually. If you think it is bad today, there are times they are worse. The gilded age makes today look like everybody is sitting around the fireplace singing kumbaya. 1890, the opening 5. 5 months of the 1889 legislative session, the house of representatives does not pass a single drill because the democrats in the minority announced they would not answer the rollcall, and by doing that, they would deny the house warm to conduct business. This they would deny the house the quorum to conduct business. T took the Supreme Court so look, this is continual. We will have to work our way through this. Unfortunately, one of the things required to work our way through it is leadership at the white house that basically rises above the normal knickknack back and forth. In 2001into office under slightly difficult circumstances, there was this little thing called florida, you may remember it dimly. As a result, bush felt compelled to make certain that his colleagues on the democratic side of the aisle understood he was the president of everybody. So the first member of the u. S. House he met with was george miller, ranking democrat on education and labor, to talk about education reform. The first member of the senate he talked to was not the republican leader, senator lott, it was senator kennedy, because he wanted to send a signal. One thing i learned was that personal relationships between the president and the congress, even with members, and most importantly with members of the opposition have to be aimed at cordiality. The president cannot get drawn into this. He has to rise above it and be the adult in the room and take whatever is thrown his way hannity of massachusetts said on july 4, 2003, bush lied about wmd in iraq. He looked at the same intelligence, came to the same conclusion bush had, gave a speech and said, we need to use diplomacy and not force. He was the guy who picked it off. That did not keep bush from holding his tongue, trying to set the record straight and working closely with kennedy from 2000 52007 on immigration reform. The president has to be the person, and it is not an easy job. I remember one time i got a call from harry reid who said, i gave a speech, i didnt read it before hand, i just wrote it, and i called bush a liar and a loser, and i didnt mean to call him a loser. [laughter] will you to whom i am sorry . Asaid, senator, i have schedule that year, he is in the oval and he doesnt have anything on the schedule. What did you apologize yourself . Click. [laughter] whether a president like it or not, personal relationships matter. I cant tell you how many people, to me, i see representative goodlatte here, and some of his colleagues said, if you had told me i would have spent more time at the white house under a republican president that a democratic president , i would have laughed at you, but i did. That was because bush understood simply being able to look at somebody as a human being, not as some cut out that you bought on amazon of your political opponents so you could take it around to the town Hall Meetings and berate them to your face. That is important. Ms. Compton it is not often i get to say madam president. Let them president , tori hutchinson, also senator hutchinson of eleanor, you are here representing state legislatures. There is a sense among many people that maybe states work a lot better in terms of bipartisanship than the federal government. What have you seen, how do you in the state legislature and also in the National Conference of state legislatures, what is the secret sauce. Ms. Hutchinson if i had a icret sauce i could sell, wouldnt be doing this. The National Conference of state has 7300res legislatures across the country. The interesting thing is you can have a conversation with someone for 10 minutes and then go, or you d or r . Goopposed to if you across the country, if you cross the middle of the street, you might be libertarian, we look at almost everything for partisan lens right now. States, one in the of the think the governor mentioned, we have rules and procedures put in place that you cant go around. A budget has to be done at a certain time. There are constitutional things that say you have to do x by this time, and that requires conversation, participation in a way that we dont see when it is constant like a rolling calendar that never ends. In those moments, you get to think what does you get to what we are alluding to, relationships you get to what we are alluding to, relationships. In our body politic, i know who just got a baby, who just got new grandchildren who just got diagnosed with cancer. It is difficult for me to call you a liar when i disagree with you, because i know you. So we are missing personal relationships with people. People talk about the old days reagan, about how ronald and tip oneill would fight it out on the floor and then have a drink afterwards. Our Senate President makes it a point to have a dinner with all the democrats and all the republicans during a session. Every night, we have a dinner. First thing we kick off is a joint dinner between republicans and democrats, the first thing we do after we settled offices. When we add the fact that we are not talking to each other and we are living in a place where everyone is screaming at each other as opposed to talking to each other, and that is exacerbated by this socialmedia ecochamber, it bleeds into our elections to where we never stop campaigning. And if you never stop campaigning, it is almost impossible to govern. What were seeing is an endless loop, almost selffulfilling, although we around. States do operate different than the federal government, one home,e we are closer to two, because we have procedures in place that make us have to reach certain deadlines. The other thing is that 90 , most state legislators across the country will tell you, 90 of the bills on the floor fly out unanimously, no big issues, very quietly. There is not a big partisan wrangling. You kind of understand that if you have a problem in a district, if it is a water problem in a district, it is not republican water or democrat water, it is just water. If you meet somebody at the Grocery Store and they stop you d, you know what, i heard when you know youre going to have those conversations, you try to elevate. It doesnt mean that the 10 of things we do that are partisan are significantly partisan. And they are so because so many haver National Issues nationalized state politics at the local level. There is a danger to that because all of a sudden, things we never used to fight about we fight about. Such as, infrastructure. It is hard to be exceptional without infrastructure. Those other things that did not used to be partisan. So this endless loop we are in right now, i think there are state legislatures across the country determined to know their colleagues, have to compromise and work with your colleagues. Also, understand that you can be polarized but still get things done. When i say polarized, i you mean you think totally ideologically different but it does not mean we are not passing bills. Polarization doesnt have to gridlock isk, and much harder of the state level considering the procedures and policies we have in place. Ms. Compton eric cantor, you are the only one on this stage who has been majority leader of your party in the u. S. House of representatives. Talk about trying to get things done. , from your think perspective, what do you think maybe has worked in the past, and how important is that relationship between members of the house of representatives . Mr. Cantor first of all, i am not so sure there is one secret that is the panacea to all that ills that affect our system today. I will say that there is some validity to the legislative process, to know your colleagues, especially those on the other side of the aisle. Because it is very tempting right now to assume a posture of entrepreneurial, a policy entrepreneur where you are in competition with the other side and you are loaded every assaults the incoming or attacks coming from the other side. I wouldnt overrate that element, maybe you call it because ilomacy, think a lot of us grew up and saw that Ronald Reagan and tip oneill myth and reality back then, that everyone was going to get along and have a drink at the end of the day together. Would have been disappointed if we relied on that. Hink maybe incrementalism right now, incrementalism is i think very underrated. , byhis age of no compromise definition, incremental progress is a compromise. But i think you need that in order to start to build the trust and respect among colleagues in the legislative body so you almost have like memory muscle that it is ok to work with other people that may not come from your perspective. I saw it in the federal level in congress. Bestindividual public this individual probably doesnt want me to say that right now, but i had a great working relationship with joe biden. He, obviously on the other side of the aisle as Vice President when i was majority leader. We had a relationship where you could pick up the phone and call him. Because we had experience in working almost on a routine matters. Trustn we arent that between each other, if you recall some of the debt ceiling days and everything else, we actually had to understand we were going to tell each other the truth, and then we could deal with it one way or the other. But there was no monkeying around about it. S. , but it say no b. D was a great productive relationship. Secondly, i think the temptation right now with things being so binary, it is either win or lose, your side or the other, the temptation is to want to assume what most the other side and sem that you are either going to get their vote or not and assume that you are either going to get their vote or not. It takes the place of conversation. We saw this on the republican side of the aisle and we felt very strongly in the original days of president obamas administration. If you remember, it was right after the financial collapse, lehman brothers, bear stearns, the economy was shedding jobs at 400,000 a month. President obama had said he wanted to do a bill that was later dubbed the stimulus bill. In the end come a i was with at the time so i took the in i was the whip at the time, so i took the brunt of this. If you had that today, they would say, we were bipartisan because we inserted things in the bill that your party traditionally supported. It is no excuse for you not to support. But remember, we are all political creatures. Leadership in the congress of the time had the obligation to look for the priorities that our membership had an hour constituents wanted so we could them. K and tell instead of productive dialogue, there was just a presumption made. So i think assuming rather than youging is probably an ill could easily repair. The importance of remembering. This is something for me now in the commercial and Business World that is very different because it comes naturally. You have got to find a winwin situation if you are in business. You have to. Whether you are in a publicly traded company or not, shareholders or the rest, you have people who have to be able to say, winwin. We have to remember that in the political contest because every single policymaker or elected official has a constituency that he or she is going to go home to. Believe me, that individual doesnt want to go home and say, i got taken to the cleaners on that deal, but i voted for it anyway. That is not happening. So this my way or the highway, and youor i lose, i win lose, it is difficult to make progress. To the point the governor made earlier in this age of social media and, the hyperbole that dominate the discussion online, it is a difficult thing to achieve right now, when what were really talking about is winwin for everybody. Ms. Compton karl you want to jump in there . Mr. Rove i have never told you this, but i had an experience in 2001 the reflected on your visit to the cabinet room. I have a great friend called ben stein. [laughter] we were supposed to have dinner one night in washington, d. C. , we happened to both be there, and economy up and said, karl, would you like to have dinner with Larry Summers . I said, yeah, but he is not going to want to have dinner with me, the National Economic Council Director for president obama. He said, he would love to meet you. Weird story. Ben stein, a comic and economist, Larry Summers, and his wife who is a poetry professor at harvard and me. ,Larry Summers spends half the dinner talking about the indonesian economy. Afterwards i sighed to ben, what was that about . He said, he wanted to show you he is the smartest guy in the room. At the end of the evening i said, i dont understand why we only got 11 republicans to vote. For the stimulus bill. I said, that is interesting, can you explain that . He said, let me ask you a couple of questions. I said, or you in the cabinet room when the president cut off eric cantor, who was supposed to present the republican option for the stimulus bill by saying, i won. Did you see anything wrong with that . He said, no. I said, did you ever contemplate asking the republicans what it would like in the package . He said, no, we had the right package. I said did you ever go to capitol hill and meet with republicans and say, boys and girls, what did you want . No, we had National Economic Council Meetings and we made the decision for what is right for economy. I said, why would you be surprised nobody voted for your bill if you didnt give them a seat at the table . Sometimes you have to sit back and say, eric, what do you want . We will put that in our thing. They have to do that even with little or no anticipation of getting your vote. , is like saying, i am not going to Pay Attention to you. It goes back to what toi said a little bit. You have to deal with people. The governor when he was governor, i know governor alan was forced to do it because he was dealing with democrats. He have to put in with the other side wants in order to say were all in this together. The dinner took place in a Korean Restaurant in washington, d. C. , the smallest town in america, everything gets out, but no one has ever reflected on this. We did have a secret Service Detail and an armored up suv, which i never saw the National Economic Council Director under bush have. Thema,ndy was a cheapskate. He would never allow you to have an armored up suv particularly if you were the National Economic Council Director. Ms. Compton let me ask you, gerrymandering. You talked about gerrymandering. Can you all here . Ms. Compton ok, gerrymandering [shouting] [laughter] we will start with governor alan. The question was on gerrymandering [laughter] gerrymandering, and have an example, eric cantor, on some other problems in washington. In governance, and have to be able to listen to the other side. Governor a lot as listening to virginia indians, something i knew nothing about. It was not an issue i run on, but you need to listen to people and learn about all the people. It is best if you actually run an election based on the agenda and ideas, and if you are given the honor of serving, you keep your promises. T helps with a democraticcontrolled legislature, every bill, you had to get a democrat sponsor on truth and sentencing and welfare reform, gerrymandering fits into this. We had a commission on juvenile justice. They said juveniles were dangerous, they were stealing gum and hubcaps. So we had a commission to make the streets safer, and some juveniles are very dangerous. The democrats had another commission that looked at how you could turn kids around would just needed structure in their life. So we were ready for big confrontations, off versus theirs us versus bears. Versus theirs. I said, why dont take the best of wher their ideas to turn kids around and take hours, and it ended up passing like 95to, 952,ing that Something Like that. Computers, they come up with these districts that what legislators are worrying about is a primary. They are not worried about the general election. Out,cantor getting knocked here you have a majority from our commonwealth of virginia, he gets knocked out in a primary and he was accused of being too friendly with the obama administration. Ms. Compton to moderate. Mr. Allen yes, he gets knocked out. Then, ocasiocortez, representative in new york winning, the democrats are finding that same fear. Part of this is because of redistricting, that the end up, the politicians create districts districts. Nvoluted i got hit by it when i was in congress for 14 months. They split down. Our log house on a gravel road and split it five different ways. They probably should have left the district alone and it wouldnt have had to do with me as governor. [laughter] it has gotten so truly that the worry is, can i win my primary . If you get to a situation that karl, or eric, or governor hodges is talking about, where you find it consensus, causes us or compromise is akin to capitulation. We need to find district that are more compact, more contiguous. In virginia, they are splitting so many precincts, people dont even know who they are voting for. The town of culpepper, was 15,000 people, is divided into three senate districts. Who is responsible for the town of culpepper, one of the three senators in that district in virginia. This has to be solved at the state level. The Supreme Court made that decision. Virginia has a really good process going on right now, vivian lots and can plum, what you all past in the legislature is outstanding. Equal number of democrats and republicans and independents, you need at least one from the others to pass it. If you press it again next year it, goes to the voters for ratification. It is absolutely essential that yearts done this regardless of who is in charge, so we dont have in virginia unelected federal judges, and commissioners from uc irvine drawing legislative maps here in the commonwealth of virginia. So that states need to take the lead. I like what virginia is doing. Other states have done it in a different way. I think the virginia approach you all crafted last year is outstanding and the best of all, and, the legislature has to approve it. Ms. Compton governor hodges, then eric. Mr. Hodges when i think of gerrymandering, i have a brother in 1984 told me that Walter Mondale would beat Ronald Reagan, because and everyone he knew was voting for mondale. I told him, mark, you need to get out more, you might see things differently. [laughter] i think about gerrymandering in those terms, because district are drawn like that. Thisrospective i have on george talked about a number of important points on gerrymandering. Here is the thing that is most important. I had colleagues tell me when i was a legislator that they didnt believe poverty existed in South Carolina. And i thought, you know, you would be better served living in a district where you had rich people and poor people, he had corporations and shop owners, where you had to learn to navigate dealing with all those different constituencies. I found over the years that the best legislators, and i am sure it is true in virginia, were those who served communities were they had to deal with lots of different issues and navigate that politically and balance those. That is really how policy is made. I think that is the big danger of gerrymandering and how we reapportion it now. We are homogenizing districts in and way that people cannot communicate effectively, and people dont really understand what is going on in their state. That is true. Mr. Cantor the times we are in are also different now than when this controversy first started. Since i have been in the legislative body, it was right before george became governor, so, 1991 was when i first served in the house of delegates. If you look at what is happening senateif you look at the of the United States right now, only nine out of 50 states, on the 9 only nine have a divided senatorial delegation, meaning there are a republican and a democrat together serving that state, which tends to say, hey, it is not gerrymandering in the senate. This is selfelecting, if you will. I think it is less than one of the of the population United States actually lives in the state where there is a divided government in the legislature. In a way, people are beginning to sort of live with or think like people they live with, and choose to do that. Which goes to the point of george made if you stick to the party of being Community Representatives and really make it so that you try to Pay Attention to political boundaries you naturally force, i think what governor hodges is saying to try and have an individual that can take into consideration more than just one way of looking at things. Ms. Compton for the National Conference of state legislatures. His is a huge issue ms. Hutchinson yes, we have a commission on it and we study it. We are talking about district packing. Is National Gerrymandering conversations come when they look at the congressional ag delegations congressional delegations, we had examples that went to the Supreme Court about whether or not there would be a change, but they kicked it back to the state. I serve in a district in illinois where on paper, it doesnt look like i could be all. Or at all, at most people would assume an africanamerican legislator would have on all africanamerican district. It also goes to the myth that what people can represent everybody, but black people will only be the representative for the black people. I dont represent a district like that. I had to learn to have conversations, listen better, listen harder, listen more. Talk to various different people in ways that before i was elected i didnt even know i had those muscles. It really does make you a better legislator when you are forced to listen to people who dont look like you, who dont have the same experiences you have. District packing stuff that. When you have an entire district where you only have to deal with you on base, you never have to go outside those things and figure out how somebody else lives. That you come to a legislative body and you are faced with the reality, how do you legislate with someone you are supposed to kill . How do you do that . It is difficult to walk into a room and negotiate. There is no such thing as negotiation absent good faith. There is no trust. Negotiation, and there is no trust if i dont know you. When we come to our National Summit in nashville, tennessee, august fiveaid, that will be one of the topics we discussed. Because legislatures are charged to deal with this. Review with so many more things to do than simply pulling together districts that would have worked 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Because there is what eric said, self selection. People are moving into places and choosing to live with people they know and are comfortable with, and that they share common ideals and values, history and culture. There is nothing necessarily inherently wrong with that. It is just that it is happening at the same time. That the way we receive our media and information is also selfselecting. We also can stay in our own bubbles, stay in a place and in a where we only listen to ideas that reinforce what we think. Hallember being in a town and i said, who in here wants me to tell them the truth. Every hand shot up, tell it like it is. Theid, wait a minute, minute i Say Something you dont agree with, you will stop clapping. That is the difference between cap fitting in governing. When i am campaigning, i need applause. When i am governing, i need to get with people in a room that think differently than i do and figure out how to move the ball forward, and i cant do that if there is no benefit to my constituency. We live in a world where you beingget a benefit from bipartisan or compromising, but you also have the large cognitive dissonance rather will turn around and say at the same time, we just want you to get things done. [laughter] how do you get things done, you sent me into kill them and. Now i cant negotiate nothing is happening. We all end up so frustrated and end up with these systems where most general people will talk about how they hit the institutions. Their person, they like their person. They will come out and say, a hit congress, they dont do anything, all politicians are liars, tricks and fees, but not you. You are doing such a great job. [laughter] everybody is like, really . Shared,s reinforced and from facebook to instagram to memes. To the. It is always really kind but also heartbreaking whenever i walk into someone and they say, i didnt know you . I enjoyed talking to you. I didnt know you thought that way. Four, i disagree with everything you just said, but i appreciate the fact that you believed strongly in what you just said and i will give you a chance. Those encounters are becoming more and more rare because we are ever to come into our own corners and not when i see another person, i am hoping that i am not wondering whether or not this is a real human face. Whether or not you are republican or democrat or anywhere on that spectrum, but that i see a human being worthy of having discussion with. Hurts with where we are today as a result of that. I dont know what the answers are, but i do know that it is worth continuing to fight about it, worth continuing to debate about it, worth being in the arena to try to solve it, because it is the only place that it is going to happen, absolutely in the states. [applause] compton i want to turn to a question. L. Will start with kar problem,mmunications the people finding their own comfort zone, the proliferation of cable news, internet sites, the less influence of the major networks, less influence of the morning newspaper i hope some of you still get them on your doorstep every morning is it the fault of media . I tend to blame the digital age itself for changing these communications. Karl . Mr. Rove yes, technology is the enemy. We must take all the machines and break the internet. [laughter] destroy electricity and return to a purer, simpler more faithful age. Look, socialmedia is corrosive. Socialmedia is bringing us back to a point where we sort of cocoon in our own comfortable sources of information. On the other hand, we have been there before. The country began in an image in which we got our information primarily from newspapers almost exclusively, and they were party organs controlled by politicians. Big example not too far from here in richmond, in the runup to the 1800 campaign, Thomas Jefferson put a notorious nder and live whigs. S article on the and the writer was awarded after the election with a appointment to the senate where he grew continue to write more. And later when he did not get it, he wrote that jefferson had a child with a slave. So jefferson got his comeuppance for hiring the notorious mr. Caulder. We think you are going through an age now, and we are, but think of the 1940s, when suddenly information began to be shared instantaneously across country. Before, it took weeks for something to go from boston to new orleans, but they invention of the telegraph brought an instantaneous National News network. Along comes Steam Powered into issues and suddenly, we have the proliferation of every kind of newspapers. There are 13 daily newspapers in new york in 1896, down from their previous high. Again, you picked the kind of information he wanted. Imaginative political revolutions of radio in the 1920s and television in the 1950s. Our entire countrys history has been one where how we receive information and how we process it, how we can check it forces has constantly been challenged how we can check its sources and authenticity has constantly been challenged the technology. Social media in particular is course and vulgar and corrosive. And the internet, i have a friend who is then four years old. One of the founders of the modern Republican Party in virginia. She sends me these emails but she sensed around to her fellow ancient blue head republican ga ls. And it is funny. Ocasiocorteznder is the daughter of aliens from ours. [laughter] this goes on all the time, and you have to worry about it. It is corrosive. And it is different. We have to find a way to deal with it. Let me make a point. I look at the internet as the greatest invention since the Gutenberg Press for the dissemination of ideas. The Representative Democracy, who are the owners of the government, the people. Dying,son newspapers are people can get biased information for free on the internet. Human beings have a position and a view. Reporting too much has turned into columns and editorials. Karl, even before all of those wonderful milestones in history, and it was not for the Gutenberg Press, who would havhave read those 95 theses . The Gutenberg Press got those ideas out that led to the protestant reformation. Baptist, was a great thank you very much. [laughter] said,len jefferson whether somebody believes in one god, 10 guards or five gods, it doesnt break my legs or pick my pocket. So religious freedom means you believe what you want, and you will not be diminished on account of it. But the internet, i think the social media that has changed compared to the newspaper. Letters to the editor, you had to put your name to it. Now, it is anonymous. So this ranting and hyperbole, and the media on top of it they used to talk about syncytial headlines, it is now click bait sensational bait. Nes, it is now click everything is hyped up, and it is not just the bloggers who do that, it is all of them. Mainstream media. Ms. Hutchinson there are no bumpers are guardrails. Mr. Allen there are no bumpers, it is called freedom. People need to realize that just because it is on the internet, doesnt mean it is true. You need to trust but verify. Mr. Cantor and we are about to see this go to the next stage when you have video that will be put together, fake videos that will go in, and if you think it is difficult to convince people what they are reading about notandria Ocasio Cortez is in the Bipartisan Campaign reform act of 2001, passed in 2002, john mccain and his colleague, a democrat from wisconsin, enshrined a provision that said, if you put an ad on the internet, youre not required if you pay for advertising on the internet, you are not required to have a disclaimer. Disclaimers on the internet are entirely youre the committee for truth in america. You dont need to put your disclaimer on there. Today. And we face not only the deep fakes of some kid sitting in a garage in suburban denver but remember in 2016, one of the main drivers of news on the internet were a group of kids in i think it was montenegro who figured out if they made up weird websites that were very liberal or very conservative and sort of manufactured information from public sites and gave a spin to it they could get Advertising Money from putting up these websites and driving traffic to it. The click bait it might have been 22. 50 a day but, by god, that goes a long way in montenegro. We are facing an International Threat for not only the trols of the in st. Petersburg but were facing the likelihood the chinese, the koreans, north koreans, and nonstate actors are going to be trying to play in the american elections as well as russia. Mr. Allen all of what yall are saying is true but you want the government to somehow start regulating. Mr. Rove at minimum, i think we ought to have disclaimers required of anybody in political adds. If you have a political add, you have to file ad, you have to file in committee and facebook and others have to unlike television, where you buy a bunch of tv ads, the buyers know about it. You have to, blah, blah, blah. We have to make it public so we have to figure out where is that committee and are they registered with the federal Election Committee or a bunch in r. U. Trolls or chinese beijing who are trying to run we have a robust presence by our intelligence agencies to be investigating on all of this kind of stuff so we dont just indict 33 people. Mueller doesnt just indict 33 people. We indict every son of a bitch who is trying to play in the elections in 2020 in real time just like they did with the hacker with capital one. Ms. Hutinson i do think our laws havent caught up with the disruptive nature what have technology does. So were accustomed to getting the information we get it theres journalistic standards. Now we have this new ability to say what we think and send out all these opinions and stuff without any of those same standards in place. You dont have to verify any of those things and i dont think our lie bell and slander laws mr. Cantor i dont this is where government will do it. It will be obsolete as son as government does something. I believe we have found ways going back to the kind of Disruptive Technology way back when centuries ago that society figured out a way to hold people account. I think it will be more marketbased. You already got people out there now taking algorithms and trying to assess veracity and i think you will have a system that will develop out of the market. Anytime the government gets involved are you start picking winners and losers. I do think ms. Hutinson two things can be true at the exact same time. You can have guardrails that got aunt must do. It doesnt have to all of our conversations need to be either or, these are the things we must act. Mr. Cantor government needs to require transparency. I am with tony on this. Republicans, ee which was being run out of st. Petersburg, soviet well, russia. [laughter] ms. Hutinson its ok to say it. Mr. Rove our government did not find out about it until afterwards. The private sectors, when the tennessee Republican Party kept saying to twitter, hey, jack dorsey, this is not us, they refused to do anything about it. It is a soviet, russian motivated its fraud. There ought to be tools to allow private individuals but more importantly, it ought to be a possibility for government to sanction people by saying, youre violating the law. Youre imperson ating a state political impersonating a state political person when your name you is mr. Allen so the problem with this to me is if you are joe public, you begin not to trust any information. You begin to think everything is fake news. Whether its the New York Times or whether its the things you see on the internet is we got to get our arms around this because no one believes any information that they see is real. Mr. Hodges because of the things they read about what happens on the internet. I mean, this is the scary thing, we cant even agree on common sets of facts as to what problems are because of all of the things that are going on with the internet. Ms. Compton in the very few minutes we have left, could each of you come up with an idea or two of what, not only change what do to bob gates this morning called unchartered territory, how dangerous its become, but come up with an idea of what, not only governments might be able to do at any level, or what the American People need to demand of the information and the leaders they put out . And ill start with you, governor hodges . Mr. Hodges parttime legislators. One of the things about congress, its become such a fulltime occupation that the people in the congress dont have a chance to really engage as much with their colleagues, with people back home as they might. I think there is a lot to be said you for a parttime congress where they spend more time at home dealing with people, talking to people about the problems that exist in the community, going back to the system we had in the 1950s and before. Thats one thing that was pretty good then, is the time we spent at home back in the district. So as minor as it may seem, i think trying to move to a system like state governments have people spend a lot more time at home, and it shortens careers too. Ms. Compton we could get rid of air conditioning like they didnt have. Eric cantor. Mr. Cantor what can the American People or ms. Compton get past this period of dysfunction and hostility . Mr. Cantor well, certainly if you look from the leadership level in terms of legislative bodies at the state level or in congress, i always say, we need to start we need to start seeing the practice of winning together again. And so at the legislative level, if you take an issue that may not be the sexiest or most consequential issue but, again, establish a pattern of working together, as i was saying earlier, it could really go a long way. We got to start go back the seeds of planting those seeds again. I think it is about reestablishing some norms or stop trying to go in and break up the norms every single day we wake up. Because theres actually some value in some of these institutions that have developed, and they have developed based on what the subject of these several days are here in williamsburg celebrating jamestown, it is those pillars of democracy, that balance of power, the notion that we dont want mob rule, which is what you got online right now, directly emimpacting policymaking. So somehow there needs to be an interveppings. Ms. Compton karl rove. Mr. Rove ill agree with governor hodges, parttime legislators. You may not know about the home state of texas. Our legislature meets for 140 days every two years. But along we pay them 600 a month and begrudge every single penny we pay them and we, like every other state, have a balanced budget requirement. Heres the other thing we ought to try to figure out how to do, and this will surprise you. We do not organize and we have not for 50 years organize the Texas Legislature on a partisan basis. When i moved to texas, moved from richmond, virginia, moved up and picked up and moved to austin, texas, i went to work for the senior republican in the legislature. He was one of 13 out of 150 members of the house of representatives, and hed been a committee chair. Today, we have 88 republicans and a majority of the Committee Chairs in the house are democrats. When i moved there there were three republicans in the state senate out of 31 and one of them was a committee chair. Today we have 21 republican state senators and 10 democrats and we have democratic Committee Chairs. The longest serving chair is a democrat, chair of criminal justice. I dont know how we get there. We dont i mean, we passed a state budget. 1473. When we had to cut when every state had to cut its budgets, we had to cut not the future of state spending, we had to cut our budget from 110 billion to 110 billion. Cut it by 10 billion, . It passed the house of representatives 1490. Because the members were working within a limited time constraint, 140 days, they were not organized on a partisan basis. We fight over redistricting and important things like the bathroom bill. By and large we run on a bipartisan basis. One other quick thing. I dont think well get out of this mess until we have different leadership and its probably not going to be until 2024 that we have both parties nominating somebody who says, were all in this together. The politics of the guilded age i mentioned earlier, it was terrible. 20 years of divided government, two years of republican government, two years of democrat government, five president s elected, none of whom get 50 of the vote, two president voted on the Electoral College but voted by a popular vote. And nationwide popular vote majority is 9,000 votes and an ugly politics that makes todays little ralely like they were singing kumbaya. I was reading on a tariff budget. Another one excoriates the former speaker first democratic speaker of the house in 1880 called him a thief and liar and a cad for having broken party ranks to support the protectionist position on this free trade measure. When the finally speaker randall said ive had enough to this and the chair declares the gentleman from georgia out of order, he turns to the former speaker and says, i will not blank you if you were dog, four letters, you can figure out what they were. This is the tone of the times. And until along comes this mild manner, reform minded president who you never paid attention to named William Mckinley and breaks the deadlock and ushers 32 years of republican denomination and has bipartisan periods of cooperation and its because there was change of the tone in the leadership at the f top. Ms. Hutchison it doesnt mean we need one person. You dont need to come in and save everybody. I do think our body politick needs to start to reward statesmanship. When people think why you go nto Public Service in the ms. Hutinson this someone of the other loops. We hate government. Government doesnt work. We are not going to participate. All we do is yell and scream about it. We hate government because doesnt work is an endless loop. I think that is when you are having your own conversations at the dinner table in your families, and everybody has a crazy uncle that says something crazy at thanksgiving. Saves it up to say it at thanksgiving dinner. Were like, dont sit uncle soandso because you know he will Say Something crazy. Today, those things are splitting up whole families. Theyre changing neighborhoods and blocks and things. Like, i cant talk to you once i find out what i think you believe politically right now. And i do think in this day and age, right now, if we dont start to as a populous deal with the fact that our institutions were created for a reason, they need to be protected because they are fragile. They are as fragile as democracy is. As long as we allow this could he rosive discussion to happen corrosive discussion to happen across the country, that government cant be a powerful good, that we dont need people to come in and have like this Representative Democracy is somehow fallable in and of itself because people are fallable, there is only one person that loves me completely, unconditionally, who i know would do anything in the world for me. Thats my mother. I dont agree with her all the time. I just dont. And she knows that and i know that and our families know that. So looking for the person that you agree with 100 of the time and then anybody who is of an opposing view is now the devil, you know, this constant delegitization of the opposition, that you cant have you cant have a debate with someone who i wont even i wont acknowledge you even have a genuine premise i can argue from, that talk, that thing we allow ourselves to do, we do it at home, we do it in our living rooms, we do it when we come from church, we do it all the time. Its no surprise when you show up and its election time and the ads start going and the Internet Things start happening and that gets seeped its already in our public consciousness, that this in and of itself is an evil institution. So what im hoping for and look to do, there is honor in Public Service. There is a reason to go into Public Service. This is a for some of us its a calling. For some of us its a thing we are supposed to be doing when you care about something bigger than yourself and bigger than your own block, your own bank account, bigger than you. There is an honor to Public Service. And as long as we keep behaving as though the entire political system isnt even worth saving, then none of us will come together to solve the most biggest, complicated problems we have when nobody trusts the institutions we have that are designed to solve those problems. We its time for us to start protecting the institutions we have right now. Because they are all of ours. Ms. Compton governor allen. Mr. Allen all right. Cleanup. Thank you, thank you, senator. [applause] i think any leader or anybody that cares to lead needs to lead by example on various areas that you can find common ground. Governor hodges and i were glad to be with each other about a month ago. We both coauthored an oped that appeared in the virginia and South Carolina papers in support of the United Statesmexicocanada trade agreement. Its good for america. We need to be interconnected. Trade is good for jobs and our competitiveness. So all of us, whatever our role is, whether in state legislatures, congress, or elsewhere, need to show that sort of effort. The other message from this week in this remembrance is trusting the people. Government closest to the people, Representative Democracy is created to protect our natural rights, freedom of religion, freedom of expression for men and women, private ownership of property, the rule of law, where you have fair adjudication of disputes as well as protection of our natural, godgiven rights. And the states are those laboratories of innovation and democracy that closest to the people. We can learn from the states. Everyones talked about washington dysfunction. Everyone talks about 49 states have a balanced budget requirements. Ms. Hutinson come to the summit. Mr. Allen the old dolly singing 9 00 to 5 00. The folks who are Public Servants need to be in touch with the way normal people look at things, and honestly, if members of congress dont get the one thing we are supposed to do done on time, withhold their pay. I guarantee you they will get it done on time. Thats the way it is in the real world. And so we can learn from mistakes. We can put in those structures at the federal level. We can get a government that is reflective of what we the people want but ultimately its we the people and what we should insist on for our competitive states and our competitive country, from the very beginning until now until the future. If you want to be successful and your competition for jobs and innovation, public safety, you got to be willing to change, to adapt, to innovate and improve. Standing still will get you put behind, and so we the people need to be propelling our Public Servants to be willing to change, adapt, innovate, and improve and always advancing freedom and opportunities for all. Ms. Compton and this is your panels way of saying, we all depend on you as well as public citizens. After all, the power is in your hands. Please thank this remarkable panel. [applause] [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by thehe she puts me in the book as someone she did not have sex with. She said she had sex with professor steve, wechsler, mitchell, bill richardson, with you name it, but she said she did not have sex with me. She once met me with jeffrey epstein. Then when she meets her lawyers a few years later, suddenly she remembers. She gets woke. Oh yeah, oh yeah. The guy id never heard of, i had sex with him seven times. How anyone could believe this is remarkable to me so i hired the former head of the fbi who is a former federal judge and i said you do this. I will not even talk with you, be involved with you. Here are my travel records. Do an investigation. He did an investigation and said there was no truth to the charges. You can watch the rest of alan bersten which at 8 00 eastern tuesday right on cspan. Now, a discussion on im david rubenstein, i had the honor of serving as the cochair of the National Bush book festival. It is for anyone wants to come in washington on Labor Day Weekend at the Washington Convention center. Make it if you cant and everyone cant be an washington, d. C. At this time, please read about this and learn about this through the tv which is on cspan2. Will do extensive coverage of the National Book festival and always come do a terrific job of letting you know what is going on at the National Book festival, even if you cant be there. The u. S. Senate comes back into session monday, make september 9, avoiding a Government Shutdown in antigun violence legislation, but before senators return to washington, get a look with cspans History Program the senate, conflict and compromise. Heres a preview. The government under which we live was created in the spirit of compromise. Thomas jefferson question the need for a senate. Lets follow the constitution. The framers established the senate to protect people from their rulers and as a check on the house. Andhe fate of this country maybe the world lies in the hands of congress and the United States senate. The senate, conflict and compromise, using unique access to the senate chambers, we you look at the rules of the u. S. Senate. At 9 00 p. M. Eastern and pacific on cspan. Now come a discussion on congressional oversight of Nuclear Security and arms control. Speakers included representatives from the arms control association. The Hudson Institute in washington posted this two hour event