Wonderful. Today we are here to highlight the human cost of occupation and travel restrictions. The human cost of the occupation and travel restrictions on palestinians and others. As many of you know, i had planned to travel to israel and palestine to hear from individuals on the ground about the conflict, so i could be more informed as a member of congress and as a member of the Foreign Affairs committee. Contrary to many media reports and the statements of the israeli Prime Minister, i plan to meet directly with members of the knesset and members of Palestinian Civil Society groups, former soldiers, palestine and Israel International organizations and United Nations officials. Leading up to the trip, i met with constituents holding a wide range of views on the conflicts. All the activities on my trip had been done by members of congress in the past. Including a nearly identical trip a few years ago led by the same Palestinian Organization leading this trip. In addition to me and rashida going on the trip, we were going to be joined by Stacy Plaskett from the virgin islands. The decision to ban me and my colleague, the first two Muslim American women elected to congress, is nothing less than an attempt by an ally of the United States to suppress our ability to do our jobs as elected officials. But this is not just about me, netanyahus decision to deny us entry might be unprecedented for members of congress, but it is the policy of his government when it comes to palestinians. This is the policy of his government when it comes to anyone who holds views the holds views that threaten the occupation. A policy that has been edged on and supported by trumps administration. Thats because of the only way to preserve unjust policy is to suppress peoples freedom of expression, freedom of association, and freedom of movement. My colleague and i are not the only ones who are being denied the right to see for ourselves the reality on the ground in the west bank. The netanyahu government is currently trying to deport omar shakir, a human rights worker with human rights watch, because he has reported on human rights conditions in the west bank and gaza. Last year the netanyahu government refused entry to american citizens catherine frank, and my friend, vince warren, who had arrived on a human rights mission. All of these actions do nothing to bring us closer to peace. In fact they do the opposite. They maintain the occupation and prevent a solution to the conflict. Fortunately, we the United States have a constructive role to play. We give israel more than 3 million in aid every year. This is predicated on their being an important ally in the region and the only democracy in the middle east. But denying visit to duly elected members of congress is not consistent with being an ally, and denying millions of People Freedom of movement or expression or selfdetermination is not consistent with being a democracy. We must be asking, as israels ally, the netanyahu government stop the expansion of settlements on palestinian land, and ensure full rights for palestinians if we are to give them aid. These are not just my views. These are the views held by the range of experts, peace advocates on this issue. We know donald trump would love nothing more than to use this issue to pit muslims and Jewish Americans against each other. The Muslim Community and the Jewish Community are being othered and made into the bogeyman by this administration. But as we will hear today, people of all different faiths are coming together to speak up against the status quo in the region. Im grateful for the solidarity shown by so many of my colleagues in congress. I understand and appreciate the calls for members to avoid traveling to israel until rashida and i are allowed to go without condition. But it is my belief that as legislators, we have an obligation to see the reality there for ourselves. We have a responsibility to conduct oversight over our governments Foreign Policy and what happens with the millions of dollars we send in aid. So i would encourage my colleagues to visit. Meet with the people we were going to meet with. See the things we were going to see. Hear the stories we were going to hear. We cannot let trump and netanyahu succeed in hiding the full reality of the occupation from us. So i call on all of you to go. The occupation is real. Barring members of congress from seeing it does not make it go away. We must end it together. Now, it is with honor that i introduce my sister, Rashida Tlaib, who has been so brave and resilient, and someone who has deep connections to the region, and someone who i would have loved to have met her city. Rashida tlaib. Rep. Tlaib thank you so much to my dear friend and colleague , congresswoman ilhan omar, for inviting me to her district today. I am thankful for her leadership and strength through all she has been dealing with as a woman of color in congress. I dont know how she does it. But the outpouring of support we have received from our constituents and supporters across the country shows us how important it is to keep fighting for justice. Today, reps omar, plaskett, and i were supposed to be on a congressional trip in delegation to palestine and israel. Such delegations are common occurrence for members of congress. Earlier this month, in fact, 71 other members of congress traveled to israel, seemingly without incident. What is not a common occurrence is members of congress being barred from entering a country on factfinding missions unless they agree to strict rules curtailing their rights or being required to submit their itineraries for stopbystop for preapproval. History does have a habit of repeating itself. I learned this week that a former member of congress, congressman charles c. Diggs jr. , was denied entry into apartheid south africa in 1972. He was also the representative for the 13th Congressional District in michigan. I was born and raised in the beautiful detroit, where many of my africanamerican teachers taught me about the realities of oppression and injustice, and the need to speak up and take action. Growing up in a city that has been at the center of many social Justice Movements for civil rights, labor rights, and equality, and absorbing those lessons, has shaped to i am today and transmit to push for and drives me to push for peace and justice for the palestinian people. As a young girl visiting palestine to see my grandparents and extended family, i watched as my mother had to go through dehumanizing checkpoints [voice breaking] even though she was a United States citizen and proud american. Grandmotherwhen my was a terrible car accident and my cousins and i cried so she could have access to the best hospitals which were in jerusalem. I remember shaking with fear at checkpoints in a small village, tanks and guns everywhere. I remember visiting East Jerusalem with my thenhusband and him escorted off the bus, although he was a United States citizen, just so Security Forces could harass him. All i can do as the granddaughter of a woman who lived in occupied territory is to elevate her voice by exposing the truth the only way i know how. As my Detroit Public School teachers taught me, by humanizing the pain of oppression. Our delegation trip included meetings with israeli veterans who were forced to participate in military occupation. They also desperately want peace and selfdetermination for their palestinian neighbors. They could have shed light into injustices of raids, shootings, and child detentions. The delegation would have seen firsthand why walls are destructive, not protective. Not productive. They could have asked the people in bethlehem how walls cut people off from economic opportunities, from a way to live, and do psychological damage that lasts forever. All i can do as her granddaughter is help humanize her and the palestinian peoples plight. I know that when we can finally see them as deserving of Human Dignity, everyone there will be able to live in peace. It is unfortunate that Prime Minister netanyahu has taken a page out of trumps book. And even direction from trump, to deny us this opportunity. And yes, while folks are shocked that this happened to us, today we will hear from folks who helped show the reality for many who have been barred from going into israel, not even able to reach the palestinian people. They are fellow americans who cannot visit their families or their loved ones. All of us should be deeply disturbed. All of us americans should be deeply disturbed. With that i thank you so much, my colleague congresswoman ilhan omar, for helping humanize the palestinian people. Rep. Omar thank you, rashida. Next, we will hear from lanna, palestinianamerican and minnesota resident, who has never been able to return to her familys homeland. Thank you, ilhan. Hello. Thank you to representatives ilhan omar and Rashida Tlaib for inviting me to speak today. I was asked to share some of my personal story. I am lana barkawi, the daughter of palestinian immigrants to this country. I live in minneapolis with my husband and children. Although i am palestinian, i have never been able to visit palestine. My story is like that of so many people who live in the diaspora. Palestine is a home i have never seen and one that i long to see. About 25 years ago i was a College Student visiting family in jordan with my mother, father, and sisters. We were considering taking a side trip to visit the occupied west bank, a visit that would include seeing for the first time my fathers family village, town. L the name of the city is the name at the heart of my last name, barka. We are the people of this village. Incidentally, this is such a common palestinian thing, that no matter how long your family has been living in exile, your palestinian identity is strong. Other palestinians want to know, what town is your family from, are you able to visit, if you can go, you should. It is beautiful. Implicit in these questions is a longing for our people to know our homeland and a hope that we can someday return. Back to that summer 25 years ago. Ultimately, we did not attempt to visit palestine. As i mentioned, we were in amman, jordan, and we would have tried to cross into the west bank at a bridge crossing that spans the jordan river. Under israels laws, the decision to allow or deny our entry would have been made by a heavily armed israeli soldier. We would have been at their mercy, making ourselves vulnerable to the occupying state of israel. Ultimately, we did not attempt to visit, and i have to say, i was quite disappointed. I was a College Student reckoning with my identity, trying to reconcile everything i knew about my loving family and our closeknit community of palestinian and other arab friends in the United States. Balance all of that against the menacing image of palestinians i constantly saw on the news and in hollywood. I badly wanted to visit palestine and to see it for myself. It was my parents decision not to attempt the visit, not to attempt to enter israel. My father talked about our safety. He did not want to put me and my two sisters in harms way. We knew the stories about what happens to palestinians when they attempt to enter israel, the indignities and the fear that Israeli Soldiers have the power to put them through. Since that summer, i have come to understand the decision of my parents in a deeper way. That beyond the truth of their concern for our safety, there was a more fundamental truth. My father could not bring himself to be in a position where an israeli soldier could control his entry into his homeland. There is enduring trauma that he and my mother live. They live in exile from palestine, from barka, and from my mothers familys ancestral home. To have the decision of our entry in the hands of an israeli soldier was too great a psychic anguish to bear. This pales in comparison to the brutalized occupation that many palestinians face on a daily basis. Representative omar is my congresswoman, and i am indebted to her for having the courage to bring the cruel and racist occupation of palestine by israel into the national conversation. The dispossession and displacement of palestinians is a human rights issue. Ofis an issue of injustice, justice. As u. S. Citizens, the representatives should be free to visit israel, a country that calls itself a democracy, to learn for themselves how the United States annual military and Financial Aid of 3 billion is spent. They should be free to defend u. S. Citizens rights to resist israeli policies by participating in peaceful boycott, divestment and sanctions moments inspired by the Effective Campaign that dismantled the apartheid system in south africa a few decades ago. Representative tlaib should be free to visit her elderly grandmother. For israel to deny a family visit or to make it conditional is truly inhumane. Traveling, learning, visiting family, these are freedoms we think we have as citizens of the United States, freedoms that should be upheld by our democracy and by that of israel, if it were the true democracy it claims to be. In my daytoday life, i have the privilege to work with arab and other southwest asian and north african artists, poets and filmmakers, making space for their necessary work in a culture that is preoccupied with marginalizing and sentencing our and silencing our community. I would like to read a poem by a palestinianamerican poet. Upon arrival. You will need to state the reason for your visit. Dont say, because i want to walk down old roads, and caress stone walls the color of my skin. You will need to state the reason for your visit. Dont say, because our lives are ready for harvest, and i will coax the fruit from the trees and press it into liquid gold. You will need to state the reason for your visit. Dont say, because my parents house still sits empty on a bluff overlooking the sea, the green shutters my grandfather had just painted remain sealed shut and the army listed the Property Owners as absentees. You will need to state the reason for your visit. Dont say, because i am carrying prayers in my suitcase for people who wait, and i will unfold them, embroidered, and spread them out across the land. Thank you. Rep. Omar thank you, lana. I did get the book of poems from lana recently in seattle. We were both visiting. I remember reading it on the plane ride back home and crying and everyone sort of staring at me like a crazy person. [laughter] next, we will hear from the minnesota resident, amber harris, who is married to a palestinian, who was denied entry herself. She will talk about the impact of the travel restrictions. Amber . Amber thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me tell my story. My name is amber harris. I am a jewish u. S. Citizen and i am married to a palestinian from the west bank with an americanpalestinian son. My story has multiple beginnings. I will start where the real struggle began. After my husband and i got engaged in 2015, we were forced to go back to palestine because he had a j1 visa and it had ended. Everything was fine the first time i went in because i was a jewishamerican. It was easy to visit israel. During my three months stay in the west bank, my husband and i got legally married and the palestinian authorities informed me that to get my visa, we had to leave and come back. So we got married and left for our honeymoon, and upon return, was held and interrogated for 10 hours by the shin bet, the Israeli Security agency. My marriage documents were almost thrown away. I was humiliated. During my interrogation, they found my twitter social media, forced me to open my facebook, yelled at me for being a human rights activist and environmentalist. I was not told why i was being held, but it was obvious. After dismissal, i was told i was a threat to the state of israel, and i was forced to sign documents in hebrew saying i was banned for 10 years. Because my husband was not allowed to come back with me to the u. S. Due to visa stuff, he couldnt get a visa, i was forced to immediately say goodbye to him at the border and go back to the u. S. , not knowing when i would see him again. But because i am privileged, i have access, and we were able to get a jewish israeli lawyer. It took about four months to get a solution to this. Basically, they came back and said that i can attempt to come back, but they would want to interrogate me, search all my belongings, open my social media, and ask for a Security Deposit, they might ask for a Security Deposit averaging 10,000 to 22,000, which they would give back if i left. We were forced to borrow money from my family, which is a privilege within itself. I returned again and was held for six hours and eventually spoke again to an officer. He taunted me, and i was asked to figure out why i was banned, and i didnt know because my lawyer was never told. He eventually said it was that i participated in violent riots and protests. I was confused and trying to figure out where he was coming from but he shushed me and said i would be allowed into the west bank this time, but i am under surveillance. And i believed him. I was not allowed into israel proper, only the west bank. The only conclusion i can come up with is that they were punishing me for my activities in the protests of ferguson, missouri. I was punished for the freedom of speech in my own country. Since then, i have faced hurdles and restrictions in entering the west bank and getting my visa. I want to make this clear, my story is not unique. Representatives omar and tlaib, and many others, our story is not unique. Mine ends on a positive note because of my privilege as a jewish white american. But these restrictions touch everyone. I know hundreds of stories of other women who are people of color and muslim, especially palestinian, who may never be allowed to return solely for the identities they hold. Israel is denying u. S. Citizens for race, religion, and ethnicity, and ultimately, for their political activity in the u. S. The time is now for us to stand up as americans for our fellow citizens who are being denied basic Human International rights, based on freedoms that exist within our country. I want to thank reps omar and tlaib for giving us this opportunity to speak out and be strong, because it is people like them that make sure my son will always have a home to return to. Thank you for letting me tell my story. Rep. Omar thank you, amber. Now, let me introduce carin, the executive director of the Jewish Community action. Carin thank you. My name is carin ross, executive director of Jewish Community action. We organize jews statewide in minnesota. As jews around the country in places like michigan, new york and South Carolina are organizing alongside other communities for immigrant rights, criminal justice reform, access to health care, and affordable housing, we recognize that our identities have been weaponized to other us, to divide us from our likeliest allies, and to weaken our collective movements for justice. We recognize and resist the way that our communities values and diversity have been flattened and erased by a president and administration who seek only to use us as ponds against as pawns against his political opponents. Our committee has been used as a tool by those pretending to be concerned with our safety, to undermine the solidarity we know is needed to achieve justice. We recognize that this is been done to our muslim neighbors, and we stand with them against the islamic phobia and racism that has been wielded against them. Our resistance is intertwined. We have been pitted against each other. Our communities targeted and our identities weaponized by those who have never stood with us. We have been dehumanized in service of a White Nationalist agenda, and our greatest power agenda, and our greatest power in resisting that is our solidarity. The president has engaged in a calculated campaign to label us all as something other than americans, tribal above all else, to define our identities and to pigeonhole us, to tell us what issues we care about, and to tell us who our enemies are while defending the actions of neonazis, while running as and raising money with antisemitic language, while lifting up the leadership of members of congress who actively target as. They want to coop are read him and define our oppression and turn us against each other, but we will stand together, not just for our own safety, but in pursuit of justice and peace everywhere. Thank you. Rep. Omar thank you, carin. Lastly, we will hear from rosa drucker. Rosa my name is rosa druker. Im here as a constituent of congresswoman omar. I am here as a young jew. My Jewish Values call me to defend the freedom and dignity of all people. It is because of these values that i organize with if not now, a movement of American Jews working to end our support for the Israeli Military occupation over millions of palestinians. The situation may be complex, but not complicated. The occupation is a daily nightmare for those who live it and a moral disaster for those who support it. What we saw this past week demonstrates israels desperation to hide the realities of the occupation from us. Palestinians are denied access to medical care, education, Economic Opportunity and freedom of movement. The Israeli Government receives billions of dollars from the u. S. Annually to enforce this cruel regime. When the Israeli Government denies entry to our democratically elected members of congress, they show us they have something to hide. When american politicians try to silence representatives ilhan omar and Rashida Tlaib, they are complicit. When political leaders peddle hate and sow mistrust, it impacts us right here in minnesota. We have seen an increase in hate crimes. When the political right tells jews to fear progressive leaders, they are weaponizing antisemitism for their own gain. I refuse to let my jewish identity be used as a tool to incite islamophobia. I reject the narrative that antioccupation means antijew. All of us should demand human rights for palestinians. I stand by my congresswoman in the mending in demanding accountability from the Israeli Government. I stand by her in the face of racist, islam a phobic attacks by those who seek to pit my Jewish Community against the muslims. That strategy will not work. We know the real threat to our communities is white nationalism. The same ideology that motivates antisemitism motivates islamophobia. It is only by standing together against these attacks that we can build a better world. Thank you so much. Rep. Omar thank you, rosa. And thank you all for being here in solidarity with us. Before we open up for questions, i just wanted to say, what often gets lost in this conversation is the fact that our work in uplifting all marginalized voices is historically documented. And there isnt really anyone here that we have not done work with. Rashida talks about the beautiful Detroit Community that she represents. But i also represent minneapolis, the heart of every progressive movement. [laughter] rep. Tlaib we did start the labor rights, i just want you to know. We died for the labor rights movement. I am just saying. Rep. Omar and so it is just an honor to be not serving with you only because they are the first two muslim women to serve but also because you represent people who understand and value this particular fight we are waging on behalf of all oppressed people around the world. So we will take a few questions. We have to get to a townhall in a bit. What is the reaction from your district . You can represent a number of synagogues. Rep. Omar the reaction in my district has been an overwhelming outcry and condemnation of the particular action that has been taken by the Netanyahu Administration at the urging of the president. People really are appalled in many ways. People feel like when you are a United States citizen, forget the fact that we are members of congress, when you are a United States citizen, that your president , your ambassador, your state Department Works on your behalf. They defend you and fight for your right to freedom of speech, freedom of movement, and to have an administration and a president and ambassador that is not doing that, puts fear in many peoples hearts. They cant trust if they found themselves abroad, or someone was refusing them a visa, that their country would fight for them. Rashida earlier talked about congressman diggs, who was denied a visa to enter thenapartheid south africa. The United States government, our ambassador, state department, our president , fought to make sure he got the visa, and he did go. So for us, this isnt right. Everything is beyond us, and are a lot of people who currently feel like what is taking place will have a larger impact on them. Reporter what about the synagogues and the jewish population, what have you heard . Rep. Omar you have heard from jewish members of my constituency. We have had a really wonderful meeting before i took my trip to get an insight of what kind of questions they wanted me to ask, what they were interested in me learning, and how they wanted a check back to happen after i returned, and we have heard from almost every single Jewish Organization here in my district, who has issued statements. Many of the jewish leaders in my district and rashidas as well have been raising their voices. Many of our jewish colleagues in congress have reached out and issued statements in condemnation. This is not an issue where there are some people who agree with this action that is being taken, everyone understands that duly elected members of congress who do appropriation, who are taking a vote in regards to what our Foreign Policy looks like in that region, that we should have access to see it for ourselves. And many of my colleagues and constituents, from the first day i got elected, have been urging me to see things for myself, to reserve judgment until i did, and this is what we were embarking on. And we dont get to have that opportunity at the moment. Reporter there was conversation about the growth the group you were going with there. Would you address the information that there were people who are upset about the group you are traveling with . Rep. Omar that is a really good question. Our colleagues and senior members, some of them have served ultimate, actually told us about the organization. We are not the ones who chose the organization, a u. S. Organization chose it. But i was told by five members of congress who actually went on a trip sponsored by the same organization. So we were also taken aback and learn from everybody else that there were some issues regarding them. Again, ilhan omar and i are very careful in vetting. There is a close eye and policing of our actions that is much more weighted on us than other members, so we are very careful. But when members of the congressional progressive caucus in which she and i are active have gone on similar trips on a similar agenda, we were taken aback as you are that people are now questioning that. I think these are just distractions. The fact that this had nothing to do really with the agenda or these other issues, because members of congress have gone, have many of these organizations including breaking the silence, amnesty , greational International Organizations both run by israelis and palestinians together that were both meeting with us. I think the focus is hiding the truth, hiding that the occupation is happening. They knew that us setting foot there would basically bring attention to something many of us feel is very much against International Human rights. Reporter after they approved the request to visit your grandmother, what did you refused to go . Rep. Tlaib i spoke to my family. My grandmother said, i am her dream manifested. I am her free bird. So why would i come back and be caged and bow down in my when my election rose her head up high . Give her dignity for the first time . So through tears, at 3 00 in the morning, we all decided as a family that i could not go until i was a free american United States congresswoman coming there not just to see my grandmother, but to talk to palestinian and israeli organizations that believed that my grandmother deserved Human Dignity as much as anyone else does. So it is something i struggled with. I talked to sister ilhan omar a little bit about it. It is a piece of you that gets broken, especially when i grew up here, in the most beautiful, black city in the country where you dont let anybody tell you that you are less than or humiliate you solely based on your faith or ethnicity. And as a United States congresswoman, i could not do that to my grandmother. Rep. Omar what i tell rashida what i tell that she do all the time is you dont allow other people to enjoy your tears. I say that all the time, there are so many people invested in our pain, in our struggle, in seeing us broken. Re. O t tlaib seeing us down. Way, iar there is no told rashida, before you sent that letter, you should have called me. [laughter] there is no way that we are ever, ever going to allow people to tear us down, to see us cry out of pain, to ever make us isl like our certificate less than theirs. So we are going to hold her head up high, and we are going to fight this administration and the oppressive Netanyahu Administration until we take our last breath. Thank you all, have a great day. Tlaib thank you. [applause] coverage for live book tv for live coverage of the book festival. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg on her book my own words. The heartbeat of wounded knee. Rick atkinson, author of the british are coming to go thomas malone, founding director of the m. I. T. Center of intelligence the National Book festival, live saturday, august 31 at 10 00 a. M. Eastern on book tv on cspan 2. Alex oldman joins us again michigan where he teaches engineering and Computer Science at the university of michigan. One of your Research Specialties is computers and Election Security. I wonder what you thought of this headline last week hackers can easily rate into Voting Machines used across the United States. Hackers at a recent las vegas conference penetrated Voting Machines within minutes, turning them into gaming consoles. Guest well, unfortunately, it is all too true. Election infrastructure across the United States remains weakly againstd and vulnerable sophisticated foreign hackers. We have a lot of work to do as a country before 2020 and elections to come. That headline is talking about the defcon conference in las vegas, and the students who turned those Voting Machines into gaming consoles imported some of our resort students from here at Michigan Research students from here at michigan. Voting machines are unfortunately a target ripe for the picking. Host you are someone who has personally hacked a voting machine yourself. Why did you do that and what did you learn . Guest oh, yes. In security research, i and other colleagues have brought many different kinds of Voting Machines and other election equipment into the laboratory to test them. We played the role of an thecker and see how easily real bad guys could make them misbehave. What we have found, with every single kind of voting machine that has been rigorously tested, unfortunately, his vulnerabilities where someone could hack in, but Malicious Software on the voting machine, cause it to be sabotaged or even silently steal votes. With electionork officials at the state or federal level to show them what you have learned about how easy it is to have these machine hack these machines . Guest yes. I am currently cochairing, for the michigan secretary of state, a commission to advise the state on how to become a National Leader in Election Security. I also spent frequent trips to washington trying to educate lawmakers. What we need is more research for the states in terms of funding, in terms of standards, so that all states can get up to the forefront of Election Security. To have that, we will need a stronger National Leadership on the Election Security question. That is at the root of the problem, why we have such a poor posture for securing elections in this country today. Host take us to the wolverine estate and the resources you get the wolverine state and the resources you get for this issue. Guest michigan is a good example. It already has a pretty strong posture when it comes to securing elections. That is because, in michigan, like in about half of states, every single vote is cast by voters on a piece of paper. Paper might seem retrograde, but it is actually a pretty good defense against election hacking, because it is something that cannot possibly be changed in a cyberattack. So what michigan still needs to do, as what many other states need to do, is make sure they are using that paper as a form of cyber defense. In order to do that, we have to check enough of the pieces of paper, the paper ballots, by having a person inspect them and make sure they agree with the Computer Systems that give us our Election Night totals. As long as the paper records and computer records agree about who won, we can have high confidence that the election result was not somehow tampered with. Host in the 2018 election, how Many Americans cast votes on machines that did not have that paper backup . Guest unfortunately, about 25 of americans in 2018. And there are still 14 states that, for at least some voters, do not have any kind of paper backup at all. That is a problem because it means those states, for those voters, are relying entirely on the output of these compex Voting Machines that have been shown, numerous times, to have complex Voting Machines that have been shown, numerous times, to have weaknesses. They are much more centralized than they may seem. All of this leads to a situation where we have the potential for sophisticated foreign attackers to get in and sabotage the system. Att what is the argument, this point, for not having a paper backup for your voting machine as a state official . Last week, there was a caller who called in specifically about this issue and was concerned about boxes of ballots being found for machines that use paper backups and whether those could be just as easily messed with as a hacker getting into a computer system. Guest we have had a long history in this country of people tampering with paper ballots in order to interfere with elections. That is why a modern approach is not just to go back to paper and count it by hand. What i and other security experts, recommend is having that paper ballot box but also, right in front of the voter, scanning the ballot into a computer. That is one of the most common ating machines, where you get paper and electronic record that thatn check in and audit there is the same winner. That is or electronic records by themselves. You need both lots of people on the ground tampering with individual ballots, and sophisticated hackers getting into the computer system. Inse who have to coordinate a way because the same tampering in each kind of record, that would just be a remarkable kind of attack, well beyond anything that weve seen. Today, i dont think that there are many serious people who would still argue that we dont need a paper trail with elections. That is pretty much done. Its just a question of resources. Host our guest from the university of michigan, he teaches and consults on the issue of Election Security. Hes with us for the next 15 minutes to answer your questions about Election Security. Less than 15 months until election day 2020. Republicans can call in at 202 7488001. Forgive me, 202 7488000. Eastern or central time zones, we have split up originally. 202 7488001 in the mountain or pacific time zones. If i have not confused you enough, we will let you look at the numbers on the screen. Frank in new york, good morning. Caller good morning. I was wondering how, they dont withce more paper trail the very fine and to be verified and people can really check the real results. In the Dominican Republic and several countries where a lot of , and there is no way to go back and check those sources for the corruption that played out on voting day. Well, i think you are getting at a very excellent point. What we need to secure elections and to give everyone confidence is to make sure that every voter has a piece of paper that they can see and verify is recording their votes that they intend. And that the process of counting and auditing those votes needs to be as transparent as possible. Long, elections in america have been based on eight, on people having faith that the operators of the system, the Election Officials are doing their jobs and taking every necessary precaution. It does not have to be that way. We need to engineer elections so that they are based on evidence. Evidence that any skeptical voter can see and check to know that the election is free from any kind of interference. Host pennsylvania is next. Angel, good morning. Caller good morning. Usingd like to know about technology for security. Guest block chain. Block chain is good for some things. You might know about bitcoin and other crypto currency, it is based on Block Chain Technology that essentially gives you a way for everyone to agree about what transactions run through the system without having any centralbank or Central Authority that is making those calls. , Something Like block chain could be part of a more secure solution, having a way to or thecords of votes records of Voter Registration that anyone can check. The problem is, it is not nearly a complete solution. To continue the example of bitcoin, with bitcoin, we still have problems of theft because people lose their passwords, installattackers Malicious Software on their computers, or because attackers break into bitcoin exchanges. Just like there is still theft despite watching technology and bitcoin Block Chain Technology and bitcoin, we still can have problems with Election Integrity even if we applied watching technology. It might be a step lower, but it is away from the whole solution. Host dominic out of new york, youre next. , your i live in new york given them your name, they give uniform. What about showing id to make sure the person who is getting that paper is really who they say they are . From what ive heard, a lot of dead people have been voting. I would like your opinion on that. So, voter identification is a complicated question. There is a kind of tradeoff between two things we really, really want. We want to make sure everyone who is entitled to vote is able to, and we want to make sure that nobody who is not entitled to vote falsely does. When you have that kind of tension between two properties, its always hard to balance them. States have taken different approaches to where they want to air on that, and it remains a matter of policy. I would say theres not a lot of evidence of people falsely voting by impersonating other people. Bet of that fraud tends to by a fraudulent Voter Registration and so forth. The reason for that is that there are severe penalties for casting a vote when you are impersonating someone else. You can go to jail for it. Thats a lot of risk to take as a criminal for just one or a very small number of fraudulent votes. The caller asked for your opinion on voter id, the president offered his opinion when he was leaving new jersey yesterday and headed back to d. C. Here is the president talking to reporters. Trump i think voter id laws are, if you look, voter identification. When people show up to vote, if you look, Judicial Watch made a settlement with california, i guess, or los angeles, where they found over one million names that was very problematic, a problem. And you just take a look at that settlement. Thats a lot of names. People well over 100 years old that were voting, what we know they are not around any longer. You have a lot of voter fraud. The easiest way is voter identification. We have to go and think about that. I hope republicans and democrats can vote, sit down and work something out with voter id. They didnt find any actual fraud. Trump the commission was having a tremendous problem, legally getting papers from various states like california. They were absolutely hard lighting. They did not want to give this commission. It was just a quick commission headed up by Vice President pence to look at voter fraud. The problem the commission had, we had to have a vast amount of lawyers which i did not want to bother with his california and other states were giving us no information whatsoever. And the reason they were giving us information is because they were guilty. They were guilty of it, and they know they are guilty of it. Many, many people voted who should not have been voting. Some people voted many times. What im saying is we need voter identification, we need voter id. Host your thoughts on the president s comments from yesterday . Guest well, i think the president has maybe some of this fax wrong about the number of voters who could possibly be voting fraudulently. Whos not one Million People are voting falsely in california. That may be the number of Voter Registration records that have needed to be checked, or there is something out of date about them. One of the interesting things about Voter Registration is that, in many states, the Voter Registration list are a problem. Anyone can go in and check the names on those with to see whether there are people who are dead were moved out of state, or just dont exist. So, that transparency does tovide a kind of protection help members of the public confirm for themselves whether the voter rolls seem to have integrity. Northa little bit further , vancouver, canada. Billy, go ahead. Caller good morning. No matter how much he repeats them, trumps lies about voter fraud are patently untrue. Its just an ever to restrict franchising to nonwhites. Mitchndering why mcconnell wont pass any Election Security bills in the senate. An argument against passing Election Security bills. So having russian interference somehow benefits democrats . Its ridiculous. That, canou answer you also give us the state of Election Security bills in Congress Might not in congress right now . Ofthere have been a number very strong efforts on a bipartisan basis to a bipartisan basis to advance Election Security bills in congress. Particularly in the senate. The last Congress Bill to secure elections gained significant bipartisan support. There are several good bills that have been introduced this term so far. But the caller is right. Mitch mcconnell is the major roadblock to Election Security legislation in this country. He just has not been allowing anything to make it out of committee or reached the senate floor. I dont want to speculate about his motivations for that. But i will say that many republicans and democrats already recognize that Election Security is a Significant National security issue. , which isderal action never going to be able to move forward in a coordinated manner as a country, or give the states the resources they need in order to protect the public. Host corpus christi, texas. Daniel, good morning. Caller i have an idea. Why not use a dollar bill, since they have serial numbers, to memorialize the votes on. Go do your place, they give you a special pen to mark your dollar bill, and some kind of camera takes a picture of your dollar bill. And you walk home and youve got your paper receipt and youve got your dollar bill and then you can spend it later and it becomes one of those bitcoin things. Incentive to go voting as well . That ishe problem with that your vote needs to remain as secret as possible. We want to have a secret ballot. That means we cant just give voters a receipt that memorializes how they voted. If we didnt do that, if you did get a receipt, someone could coerce you into voting a certain way, or make it much easier for people to buy or sell votes. For that reason, the secret ballot is one of the most important security protections we have an elections. We need to maintain ballot findingwhile also mechanisms that increase the integrity of the count. Thats what makes this a difficult security problem. We want both of those things at the same time. Host you mentioned Mitch Mcconnell, his home state. Crescent springs, good morning. Caller yes, Mitch Mcconnell is running for reelection in 2020. We need to push this issue in kentucky because he is my senator. I think he would address this issue a little bit earlier. We have like 120 counties in kentucky and out of those 120, 38 of our counties had more voters registered than we did in the population. It could be various reasons to why this was happening. Currently, now, we have what i would call the optical scan. We have a paper where i fill up my black box and then we scan it through. I hope that is more viable than any of the others. Also, what i would really like to see, i would like to see more control of our voting by the county clerk in our counties, rather than giving it to the secretary of state, and she was sued by Judicial Watch for not cleaning up the voter rolls and at this time, the voter rolls are still not cleaned. Person runningw for secretary of state and every one of these candidates and the primary has basically supported cleaning up these the voter rolls. Another issue i would like to address host we are out of time, i want to give professor halderman a chance to respond to follow that. Guest i would say that the very positive thing that you just mentioned is the optical scan paper ballots in the polling place. That is the best technology we have currently for securely recording peoples votes. And