Transcripts For CSPAN Acting Homeland Security Secretary Testifies On Migrant Children Policy... 20240714

Enforcement agents. This portion is just over one hour. The committee will come to order without objection. The chair is authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. We are convening to hear the testimony of acting secretary of Homeland Security Kevin Mcaleenan. I want to briefly address the spectators. I already saw two signs being held un, so i want to address you. We welcome you and we respect your right to be here. We also ask in turn that you respect we ask for your respect as we proceed with the business of this committee today. It is the intention of this committee to proceed with this hearing without disruptions. If a disruption occurs, listen up, a Capital Police officer will go up to the individual and instruct that they cease demonstrations. If the individual does cease, no action will be taken. However, if the person does not cease, he will be asked to leave. Were grateful for your presence here today and your cooperation and we want to move this hearing along quickly. And every time i have to stop and police have to address issues like that, that just slows us up. I would also remind all members to avoid engaging in any adverse personal references. I now recognize myself for five minutes. Today, the committee is examining the Trump Administrations inhumane policy of separating children from their parents at the border, and the dangerous conditions in which they are being held. Last friday, we issued a staff report summarizing data on children who were separated from their families by the Trump Administration. This report was based on information that we forced the Trump Administration to do to produce through the committee by bipartisan subpoenas after they refused to do it voluntarily for months. The report found the administrations child separation policy was more harmful, more traumatic, and more chaotic than previously known. The report also describes specific case studies of ten children who were separated by the Trump Administration, including several who were under the age of two. We sent our report to the Department Last week, and we will be asking our witnesses our witness about these children this morning. Today, we will hear from acting secretary of Homeland Security, Kevin Mcaleenan. He was originally invited to testify at our hearing last week, but he asked for this appearance be postponed until today. That appearance be postponed until today. We have accommodated his request and we thank you for being here today. Mr. Mcaleenan is one of the key architects of the trump child separation policy. Last april, he sent a memo to secretary nielsen explaining how they could, i quote, direct the separation of parents and legal gardens and parents held in immigration detention, end quote. He also recommended Going Forward with this policy and she agreed. They separated thousands and thousands of parents and children under this policy until a public outrage and a federal court forced them to stop. Mr. Mcaleenan and other Senior Administration officials admitted one of the purposes for separating children from their families was to dr. Immigrants immigrants and Asylum Seekers. General kelly said this attorney general sessions said this, and mr. Mcaleenan admitted as much in an interview last june. When he said, and i quote, the intent, unquote, of the policy, and i quote, policy to dissuade crossing between ports of entry, end of quote. Tragically, under mr. Mcaleenans leadership, the Trump Administration failed to track separated children and their families so they could be reunited. Mr. Mcaleenan has claimed the administration, and i quote, kept very careful records when the relationships between parents and children. Of the relationships between parents and children. But that was not accute. Our committee has now obtained data under subpoena showing a chaotic system in which children and parents have repeatedly moved to multiple facilities in which parents were repeatedly deported without any idea of where their children were. Our findings are corroborated by multiple reports from the independent Inspector General and the Government Accountability office, which concluded that the Trump Administration made no serious effort to track separated children and had no plan to reunite reunify them. Finally, while mr. Mcaleenan has acknowledged overcrowding at the detention centers, he has claimed publicly that the reports of filthy and dangerous conditions are, quote, unsubstantiated, end of quote. This is simply not accurate. Last week, we heard testimony from the igs that substantiated these reports in a graphic way. They provided photographic evidence, as well. The administration wants to blame democrats for this crisis, but it is the Trump Administrations own policies that are causing these problems. It was the Trump Administration that implemented the, quote, zero tolerance policy, end of quote. Separated thousands of children and increased the number of people in detention. It was the Trump Administration that canceled effective policies from the last administration that reduced unnecessary detentions. It was the Trump Administration that shut down the family Case Management program, in which social workers helped migrant families finds attorneys and navigate the court system with a 99 success rate for attending Court Appearance and checkins with i. C. E. It was the Trump Administration that ended the Central American minors program, which allowed children fleeing Central American countries with a relative in the United States to apply for asylum from their home countries. These were all policy decisions made by the Trump Administration. They all increased the number of people being held and unnecessarily detained, and they all contributed to the conditions we are now witnessing. The damage the Trump Administration has inflicted and is continuing to inflict will impact these children for the rest of their lives. As ive said, when were dealing with children, its not the deed, its the memory. Its the memory that will haunt them until they die. Todays hearing is one more step in our committees effort to determine the scope of this damage and begin to address it. And with that, i yield to the distinguished Ranking Member, mr. Jordan. The president says theres a crisis, asked for 4. 5 billion. The democrats said its fake, its contrived, manufactured, not a real crisis. And then the real crisis gets even worse. What do the democrats do . They blame the president of the United States and they blame the hardworking people who work for mr. Mcaleenan on the border. When Everybody Knows what has to be done. Everyone knows this. We have got to fix the asylum law, got to fix the decision and build a security wall. And frankly, what will also help is when folks on the left will quit saying crazy things theyre saying to incentivize people to come and create this crisis that everyone acknowledged a long, long time ago except democrats and congress. I want to welcome our witness today, secretary mcaleenan. Thank him for his service to our nation. At dhs, both during the Obama Administration and Trump Administration. Theres been a lot of talk from democrats on this committee about the border crisis. I hope that secretary mcaleenan will offer some facts, facts, and real perspective, learn from his years of serving our country and helping secure or border. Week, this Committee Held a hearing entitlinged kids in. Kids in cages. The next day, chairman nadler accused them of homicide. They told the people who work for this administration, work for secretary mcaleenan, quote, negligent homicide. And another thing, he said cdp was engaged in torture. This rhetoric is wrong and despicable and does not to fix the problem. After months of calling this a fake crisis, democrats now changed their tune. Make no mistake, the democrats only changed their tune because the facts simply cannot be ignored anymore. In fiscal year 2019, more than 688,000 illegal aliens according 133,000 ing nearly may 2019 alone were apprehended between ports of entry along the southwest border. An increase of approximately 80,000 just since october of 2018. And while historically most immigrants were single adult males, 72 of all border Enforcement Actions in the last month were related to unaccompanied alien children and family units. So what do democrats do when they have to acknowledge a problem that doesnt align with their politics . They look for someone to blame. Who else, but the president of the United States and the hardworking men and women who work tirelessly every day to try to secure orur border . The comments from democrats in congress only serve to demean our brave Border Patrol employees, and frankly, and this is important, to spark a necessary outrage. Abolish i. C. E. Abolish dhs. The entire department. Walls are immoral, the speaker of the house said, even though theres a wall in her state. Noncitizens should be able to vote. Finance health care for all illegals. Concentration camps. They called detention facilities concentration camps. Earlier this week, a selfproclaimed member an teefia to a nice center an i. C. E. Center, set cars on fire and attempted to burn down the building. In this manifesto, this an teefia member said he felt it was necessary to take actions against these, quote, concentration camps. Not one single so call cage has been constructed by the Trump Administration, not one. During the presidency of barack obama, we didnt see outrage from the democrats then. We didnt see prominent members of congress condemning, quote, concentration camps and torture then. President trump has not built a single cage. The cages you see on twitter were constructed by president obamas administration. The only thing the Trump Administration used chainlink fence for was one temporary facilities immigrants pass when pass through when they initially are being screened. The facilities the Trump Administration built are all air conditioned, have fresh waters water, and supplies, and folks trained to administer health care and supplies. You would never know that from listening to the democrats. After months of the administration highlighting the crisis at the border and making calls for more funding, it wasnt until just before july fourth that House Democrats finally agreed to pass the 4. 6 billion emergency funding bill to provide some of the resources needed at the border. Despite the size and scope of this crisis, someplace democrats some democrats still choose not to support this bill. Choosing instead to play politics with the border rather than work on the solutions that we all know need to happen. Fabricating stories of cruelty and besmirching the hardworking Civil Servants and protecting the border and providing humanitarian assistance is not creating problems. Democrats, if theyre serious about solving the border crisis, they must address as i said before, asylum loopholes and other laws and Court Decisions that incentivize aliens to make the dangerous journey to the United States. Most of all, they must stop constructing the Border Security well. This is one of the Biggest Challenges of our time. It is growing by the day. I look forward to hearing senator mechling and. Magdalena. Leenan. Before we move forward let me say to the committee, i want to first of all thank mr. Meadows for working hard with us to make this hearing happen. I really appreciate that very much. And the other thing is, we will go all the way up until the call of the vote, which is going to be approximately 10 45, and then we will come back. And we will come back as soon after i think we have three votes, soon after that as we possibly can. Look at your iphones to see exactly what i dont know exactly the time, but i guarantee it will be as soon after that as we can possibly make it. With that, now i would like to welcome our witness, the honorable Kevin Mcaleenan. Acting secretary to the department of Homeland Security. If he would please rise and raise your right hand. I will swear you in. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony youre about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Let the record show that the witness answered in the affirmative. Thank you. You may be seated. Secretary, the microphones are very sensitive, so please speak directly into them. And without objection, your written statement will be made a part of the record. Kevin mcaleenan thank you, mr. Chairman, Ranking Member jordan and members of the committee, i appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the Border Security and humanitarian crisis, our efforts to mitigate it and continued support we need from congress to address the underlying causes. I also intend to provide a muchneeded account of the extraordinary humanitarian actions of the men and women of the department of Homeland Security and especially u. S. Customs and Border Protection of the United States Border Patrol have taken this year to protect migrants in our custody while securing our border and enforcing nations Immigration Laws. As i testified and warned publicly dozens of time this year and last, we are facing an unprecedented crisis at the border. U. S. Customs and Border Protection apprehended or encountered as we sit here today over 800,000 migrants crossing our border from mexico since october 1, over 90 of whom crossed illegally through ports of entry. Between ports of entry. Over 450,000 of these apprehensions and encounters were members of family units and were unaccompanied children. Combined, that means over 300,000 children entered our customer since october 1. Thats almost as many as the total apprehensions in fiscal year 17. These numbers are staggering, unprecedented, and overwhelmed and challenged every aspect of our border and immigration system that we have been warning and asking to address for well over a year. I first reported this a state of crisis a year ago yesterday. Since that time, i and cbp leaders warned of the Border Security challenges in more than 100 briefings in hearings on the hill, more than 15 congressional hearings and 55 investigations at the border, three major press conferences and more than 50 television appearances. On march 27 of this year, i went to el paso and claimed the border emergency situation has arrived and cbp was facing humanitarian challenges. On june 10 nearly 40 days after asking for funding and in the same week the Inspector General was inspecting border securities, i was explicit about the border on cnn and went well beyond the Inspector Generals statements. I said our facilities are overcrowded. No american should be comfortable with a children in a with children in a Police Station for days on end. Its not an appropriate setting for kids. It took another two weeks for 2. 5 weeks weeks for congress to vote on the emergency supplemental. Despite the scale of the challenge we face and failure to enact legislation that could have prevented and still end this crisis, dhs made significant strides in its effort to secure the border and help and protect migrants in our custody. Since january 2019 they gave since january 2019, the dhs team gave 6,000 meals, 8,000 medical reviews. We have taken more than 21,000 sick or injured migrants to hospitals and conducted medical transportation or stood hospital watch for over a quarter million hours. With support from the coast the u. S. Coast guard, Public Health commission core, we now medical officials embedded in border facilities, screening migrants upon arrival and providing critical triage. From january 1. Combined with the officers that are trained and emergency personnel, i am confident no Law Enforcement agency in the world is providing more critical lifesaving care and medical support than u. S. Customs and Border Protection. On the facilities front, with the humanitarian funding we requested in the budget and received in the supplemental, we cbp professionals outfitted and stafred four new facilities to enhance conditions for those in custody with two more by the end of july. This facilities are targeted at reducing overcrowding and these facilities are targeted at reducing overcrowding and conditions at the border. More recently, two critical efforts are starting to make an impact and we are seeing a progress with border flow and lowering numbers the first time for the first time this year. Thanks to President Trumps direct engagement, we entered into an agreement with mexico in early june to address the flow thats making a dramatic impact, a 28 reduction in boarding border crossings in june. Another factor is the care and custody of migrants at the having requested three weeks ago the emergency supplemental requested by the administration on may 1. These funds are being directly and immediately applied to reduce overcrowding and improve conditions, expand medical care, provide hot meals and improve transportation and ensure adequate supplies. These have reduced custody at the border from an almost high in june to under 10,000 yesterday afternoon. Health and Human Services now has adds kwet bedequate bed situation. We had an average of fewer than 35 hours in custody. Throughout this period, the women of dhs served with diligence and compassion. Make no mistake, the situation is beyond crisis levels. We are still seeing 2,500 crossings a day. Mostly families. We are pursuing a multifaceted strategy to address the flow of migration at the source by expanding our Partnership Effort with Central American governments to attack criminal organizations to improve security and fostering Economic Development and growth. Fundamentally, however, a durable solution to this crisis lies with congress, with targeted changes to our Immigration Laws that we need to enhance the integrity of our immigration system and eliminate the gaps in our Legal Framework that incentivize families to take this dangerous journey. I will work with any american to discussember willing to this and invite you to see the situation at the border yourselves. If i can get one more minute, mr. Chairman . You may, please. Kevin mcaleenan part of this is due to increased incarcerations under the socalled zero tolerance problem and adults crossing the border impacted families and children. This initiative resulted in an increase in prosecutions in violation of section 1325 of the immigration nationality act from 20 to 50 and included all amenable adults, even those crossing our border unlawfully with children. These prosecutions, as all criminal prosecutions do, resulted in temporary separation of parents and children. This practice lasted six weeks, ended 13 months ago, and been has been the subject of ongoing litigation, Inspector General reports and hundreds of media stories. I have personally testified at a number of these hearings and in several media appearances and answered questions about it. I have acknowledged the initiative, while well intended, lost public trust and President Trump was right to end it. Under Current Practice governed by both executive and court orders with operational guidance guidance, separations of guardians are rare and undertaken in the best interest and safety and welfare of the child. In closing, i feel compelled to address current public rhetoric surrounding the ongoing security of the border and ongoing humanitarian crisis. The incendiary and overwrote attacks on men and women defending our border are unwarranted and damaging. The demonization of Law Enforcement professionals, u. S. Border patrol agents, cbp and ice officers from all racial and ethnic backgrounds, from all faiths and callings who have chosen a career of protecting others must stop. These false and overheated attacks are not helping resolve the crisis. Indeed, they diminish the publics understanding and cloud the perception of whats happening. We need, mr. Chairman, to regain our balance. We need to understand what is incentivizing and driving migrants to put themselves in the hands of dangerous smugglers and embark on this perilous journey to our border and have a in order to have a real solution how to solve the problem. I hope this hearing today can be a step in the right direction. Thank you. Thank you very much. Can we move the signs, please . Thank you. The audience is trying to see. Thank you very much. And all of the members, by the way, have what the signs say, so thats the most important thing. Mr. Raskins. Mr. Chairman, church. The policy of separating children from parents has shocked the conference of our nation. I want to go to the point you closed with. You testified in the senate that child separations are now, quote, extraordinarily rare and, quote, for the safety of the child. You told the Senate Judiciary committee, quote, were talking about examples of a parent wanted for murder, a parent who had a stroke and needs to be taken to the emergency room. But the facts we learned on the ground seemed contrary to the reassuring picture. Official ann maxwell told us her office saw cases in which the department of Homeland Security separated children based on the parents criminal history, including, for example, a prior charge of Marijuana Possession. Mr. Secretary, does a parents prior charge for Marijuana Possession justify taking him or her child away . His or her child away . Kevin mcaleenan so, i want to start with the rare portion of this. Fewer than 1,000 juveniles have been separated from their parents crossing the border this fiscal year. Thats with 450,000 crossings of family units. This is carefully governed by policy and by court order that needs to have a criminal background or issue, as you referenced, poentential communicable disease. Or a medical emergency or risk of abuse or neglect by the parent of the child. This is in the interest of the child. It is carefully governed and overseen by a supervisor and those decisions are made. Criminal history, yes, is a factor. If theres an extraditable warrant or prosecution for another offense. Ok. And so, do you think that marijuana a prior charge of Marijuana Possession justifies taking children away from a parent . Kevin mcaleenan it depends on the totality of the individual case. If there were nothing else . If there were no other factors. Kevin mcaleenan i would have to look at the case youre referencing. According to released hhs information about 3,000 child separation cases, the last large majority of them are labeled taking place based on a parents criminal history which could include prosecution charges or mere allegations of past crimes based on unsubstantiated information shared by foreign governments. I want to be clear on this, are separations being made based on taking place based on on substantiated evidence unsubstantiated evidence and criminal convictions . Kevin mcaleenan if we have an allegation of a serious crime especially from the u. S. Jurisdiction, that would be cause to consider separation in that case. We also partner with foreign governments. We work closely with Law Enforcement in Central America and mexico. When we have referrals of criminal activity, indictment or a conviction or indictment or , the collection procedures, we take that into consideration. According to the hois the Houston Chronicle, there was a salvadorian woman identified as maria who was abused by gang members for years. She was present in a gang fight and taken into custody by police and never charged with anything. This interaction was enough for Border Agents to imprison her and take away her 2yearold son for more than five months. Do you think that was appropriate . Kevin mcaleenan again, i would have to look at the specific factors in that case. Im not sure the Houston Chronicle has the same information provided by our foreign governor partner. Government partner. Again, that is governed carefully by policy with discretion at the supervisory level in the field for making those decisions. Weve seen evidence to suggest that Three Sisters were taken away from their father in november of 2018 allegedly because he was hiv positive. Is that a proper basis upon which to remove parents from their children . Kevin mcaleenan again, youre referencing a number of specific cases that i do not have in front of me. I do not have the facts to make that decision. Lets assume it was. Hypothetically speaking. Kevin mcaleenan the fact of being hiv positive does not sound like it would meet the standard. There could have been other complications medically would have required temporary separation. Do you have written standards you use to determine if children should be removed from parents . Kevin mcaleenan we have a policy by executive order and court order that is sent out to the field and implemented. Has been sent out to the field and implemented. Can you make that available to us . Kevin mcaleenan of course. Last week, a young store testified before this committee, her group was appointed by the department of hhs to advocate for vulnerable children, including 120 recently separated children. On average, these kids she testify were 7 years old and in custody for 115 days before seeing their parents. According to her, the center found separation was contrary to the best interest of the child in nearly every single case. Do you commit to this committee today and to congress to have a policy where children will only be removed from their parents if there is a compelling reason to advance the childs own health and safety . Kevin mcaleenan so, we also have compelling reasons for criminal prosecutions that are also irrelevant interest as understood by the court and expressed by the executive order. But, i would be happy to work with this committee to evaluate our procedures on separation, to hear miss magdas testimonies on her concerns and consider how we can improve what we do. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here, mr. Secretary. In talking about the situation, the president said there may be some narrow circumstances in which there is a humanitarian Refugee Status that a family might be eligible for. If that were the case, it would be better to apply in country rather than make the very various dangerous attorney all the way up to texas to make those same claims. Went on to say, i also emphasize to my friends here we have to deter a continuing influx of children putting themselves at great risk and families putting their children at great risk. So i emphasize within a Legal Framework and humanitarian framework and property and process, children who do not have proper clamszims of claims of families and children who do not have proper claims are subject to repatriation to their own countries. I say this not to lack not because we lack compassion, but because we are a nation of immigrants, we are a nation of laws and if you have a disorderly process of migration, that not only puts children themselves at risk but calls into question the illegal the Legal Immigration process of those properly applying and trying to enter our country. Would you agree generally with this assessment . Kevin mcaleenan i didnt hear you say who made that assessment , but yes, from what you read, i would agree with that. It was president obama five years ago. He went on to say there have been a lot of press conferences about this and the time for we need action and less talk is what he said. You mentioned all of the different meetings you had been in. He also went on to explain how the economic conditions, wanting a better life did not fit in that narrow definition of asylum in that same press conference. Could you speak briefly to the magnet that is drawing migrants here . Kevin mcaleenan sure. And just one other common on comment on that as the chairman raised in his Opening Statement, the Central American minorsprogram, that program, that was a program that provided a categorical parole for certain minors in Central America. This administration has proposed in january in a letter from the omb acting director to congress on the budget deal and again working with chairman graham on the judiciary side that would allow for a similar approach for applying for asylum for unaccompanied children in a country closer to where they are because they dont want them in the hands of smugglers coming to the border. On the incentives, Ranking Member jordan laid it out. The main incentive has been the fact that families all over the region advertised by smugglers, fully internalized. We saw it on cbs news, a woman from venezuela knew she brought said she brought her child, she would be released, is the fact the settlement does not allow us to do what we are able to do under president obama and secretary johnson, detain Families Together through an expeditious, fair, immigration proceeding. It took 40 to 50 days on average. That resulted in a clear immigration decision from a judge, either repatriation if there wasnt a valid immigration claim, or determination that family would be allowed to stay. Were not able to do that anymore. Thats why we see so many families coming, a direct response to that gap in the framework. Right. Definitely this is congress job is theird it responsibility to fix it. Nothing i say is meant to take us away from that responsibility. We sent you a letter a couple months ago highlighting eight actions the administration could take. I wanted to touch on a couple in the time i have left. One of them was training agents to do credible, fair interviews. We got your response. We will have 60 trained over the last couple of months. But that is the limit in that this is a pilot program. The idea of training agents is we wouldnt have that twoyear process, we would really solve this right at the beginning as opposed to mass influx that we dont know what to do with these people. We can solve it almost at the point of entry. Why are we not doing more . There are thousands and thousands trained and we are thousands and thousands of agents at the border that could be trained and we are limiting the program to 60. Kevin mcaleenan firs, we should be addressing the asylum claims at the boarder and and doing the border and doing credible fairness assessment as soon as possible, and rco asylum officers on that standard could help us increase the capacity and volume. What were trying to do is balance it against the continuing crisis. The fact we have 40 to 60 of our agents doing processing, care, transport, hospital watch, not on the lines. We only have ten more seconds. Work authorization. Can you explain the process of who is getting work visas, why they are getting work visas in people,ext of how many who winds up crossing the border actually has a legitimate claim to be here . Kevin mcaleenan in that context, what we are seeing for asylum claims 10 to 20 actually getting asylum at the end of the Court Process. Unfortunately, that takes years to happen. So we are seeing employment authorizations being issued by cis. The acting director is looking again at that policy and seeing if were applying it appropriately given the context you offered. Thank you. Mr. Connelly . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Welcome, mr. Acting secretary. I just want to read you a quote. There can be no keener revelation of a societys soul than the way in which it treats children. That was a quote from the late nelson mandela. Would you agree with that quote, the sentiments of that quote, mr. Mcaleenan . Kevin mcaleenan i have tremendous respect for the late nelson mandela. Thats a powerful quote. Are you a dad . Kevin mcaleenan yes, congressman. You have children. I do too. I have one. Mr. Secretary, last friday the committee released a staff report on the child separation policy that summarized the data produced by you and other agency other agencies under Committee Subpoenas as referenced by the chairman. We provided you with a copy of that report last week, and we agreed to delay this hearing in the anticipation you would review that report. That report included ten case studies not 100, not 1,000, and we identified specific children at your departments suggestion by number rather than by name, but we had the names. I want to ask you about one of these cases. I assume you looked at the report. Kevin mcaleenan i reviewed the report, but im not prepared to discuss in detail specific cases at this time. Well, i am. Theres a child identified in the report as child number two. We have additional copies of the report, obviously, if you need to refer to them. The records we obtained from you and other agencies showed that this child is a baby boy from honduras who is just eight was just eight months old when he arrived with his dad at the texas border in may of last year. He was eight months old. He was taken away from his father and sent to a facility in arizona. He then spent six months in that facility. He had his first birthday there. He spent half of his life without his dad in the custody of u. S. Officials. Meanwhile, his dad was transported to three different i. C. E. Facilities and then ultimately deported after two months. Acting secretary, why has why was a child of eight months held for six months while his dad was deported two months later . Kevin mcaleenan congressman, the case youre referring to happened in may of 2018. Do you have a date . Do you have the date . The actual date in may . We can get it to you. Kevin mcaleenan again, i would be happy to go back over these specific cases with you and members of your staff as appropriate. But what i can tell you is that when we implemented the zero tolerance protocols to increase prosecution of amendable adults, including those arrival with arriving with children, i specifically directed and chief of Border Patrol echoed, that that would not include parents traveling with children under 5. When weve gone back and looked at the cases, and there were a few dozen separations during that time frame, we determined that there were other reasons that would comply with the current executive order, court order, for separations of children under 5 that occurred under the zerotolerance period. Im running out of time. I want to clarify what you said. Forgive me for interrupting but i want to make sure i understand what you said. Normally, youre saying your policy would not have allowed this. Something must have happened that made an exception to your normal practice, is that what i understand . Kevin mcaleenan basically, yes. During the zero tolerance period if it was after may 7th or so, if it was before then, it would have been under historical approaches. In either case, there must have been another issue with the adult or concern to follow up on. Lets say there was, in theory. Isnt there something wrong with deporting the dad and keeping the infant . I mean, dont we have a tracking system in place that would have caught that and said hey, weve got to link these two up, its a dad like you. Kevin mcaleenan right. With his child, a baby. Eight months old. Policy,aleenan by ice if theyre removing an adult who arrived with a child, its up to the adult to choose whether the child should be repatriated with him. I have one more question for you. On the Aaron Burnett show, the cisng director of u. S. Actually blamed the father for the death of himself and his father crossing the rio grande. It turns out, of course, Oscar Alberto Martinez Ramirez left el salvador on april 3rd, actually his daughter had jumped into the river, and he tried to rescue her. The director said, and i will end on this, that father did not want to wait to go into the asylum process so he decided to cross the river. And, therefore, it was his fault. Do you share that sentiment . Is that the philosophy of your department . Kevin mcaleenan i think what happened to oscar is a tragedy. I think they deserve better and deserve a Legal Framework in our country who does not incentivize unlawful crossing and deserve to apply for protections as close to home as possible. Youre a dad, im a dad. Your time expired, im sorry. You would have jumped in river to help your daughter too, right . You may answer the question. Kevin mcaleenan of course, congressman. Thank you. Mr. Miller . Thank you mr. Chairman and Ranking Member jordan. Thank you very much for being here today. In april, i took a trip with my colleagues to guatemala to see first hand the results of Human Trafficking and abuse of women that occur in the country. I saw with my own eyes the devastating impacts Human Trafficking has on the young girls, and i know this same trafficking is occurring at the border, our border. We need Real Solutions to act swiftly to address the root causes of this issue. Mr. Mcaleenan, i have a lot of questions, so try to keep your answers short enough that i can get to them all. Nobody wants children to be separated from their parents, and we all want to ensure that children are treated with dignity and housed comfortably. What are the factors a Border Patrol agent uses, what he goes through in order to assess these illegal family units when they arrive . Kevin mcaleenan so, by and large, the vast, vast majority, well over 99 98 of children that arrive with parents are kept together in the process. The Border Patrol agent or cpd officer will undertake the encountering that family will undertake the analysis under the criteria of the executive order order018, and a Court Consistent with prior policy that is in the interest and safety of the welfare of the child. And cases are, again, prosecution for criminal offense or serious criminal history, abuse or neglect, expressed by that parent or the child where we have a concern, or a medical emergency. Those are the main indicators of a potential separation. How many childrens lives have been saved by the Border Patrol . Kevin mcaleenan so, i think thats a really important question. We make over 4,000 rescues a year, already in the first nine months of this year, the border rescued tenfold on the river. Border patrol agents almost every day dive into the water with full equipment on to try to rescue families crossing the water. Its high water this time of year and its very dangerous. 3,800 so far this year. Thank you. Im glad to hear that. What is the average size of migrant groups that the border a troll is encountering and how is that impacting the operations . Kevin mcaleenan this year has been unlike any other we have seen in our history with well over 150 large groups of over 100 migrants crossing together. We peaked with a group of 1,036 group,s crossing as one all from Central America. 900 plus were family units. Since mexico has started to do their operations, address the Transportation Networks on their highways, we have seen a dramatic drop. We have only had four large groups since the sart of the operations and zero in july today. Wonderful. How is it the policy for separating children from their parents what do you use except in the zero tolerance . What is different in this administration and past administrations . Kevin mcaleenan right now, our policy is identical to what we were doing before the zero tolerance practice that ended over a year ago. The same . Kevin mcaleenan yes. Ok. In fiscal year 2019, the department of Homeland Security identified 5500 migrants presenting as family units that turned out to be fraudulent. Why would adults use children to help them cross the border . Kevin mcaleenan unfortunately, we see that all too often. It has been a big focus to try to identify the adults and try trying to bring children with them that are not their own to take advantage of what they perceive as a loop hole in the law that would allow them to be released into the United States. We have had egregious cases including a 51yearold man who bought a 6monthold child for 80 in guatemala and admitted when confronted with a dna test that when confronted with a dna test conducting a pilot at one of our border stations. How has the settlement impeded our ability to enforce the law . Kevin mcaleenan it has prevented us from getting immigration results from judges. At what point would a child be separated from the adult they arrived with . Kevin mcaleenan at what point . It would depend on when an issue was identified. For instance, we unfortunately had a 15yearold girl a few months ago tell us that her father had raped her the night before they crossed the river. So she was immediately separated and taken care of. She was sent to health and Human Services as a result. Its for safety. Kevin mcaleenan correct. If a family unit is housed together, how are they housed . Kevin mcaleenan we separate families generally by demographic and gender. So male head of household families and other male head of household families. The same for a female head of household family. The age of the kid is also a factor. We try to just keep people in the safest routes possible during the short time they are at the border. The time is expired. Thank you. , thank you, mr. Chairman acting secretary for coming in. Secretary meddling in, two weeks ago on july 3, my colleague and i wrote you a letter requesting that you provide a plan within 14 days for how you will utilize the 1. 34 billion in emergency supplemental funding provided to dhs to address the border situation. I have not received a response. Mr. Chairman, without objection, i would like to enter this letter into the record. Macaleenan, has dhs begun receiving the emergency humanitarian funds provided by congress and signed by the president on july 1 . Kevin mcaleenan of course. I can tell you we were already acting in hopes of receiving that funding before the supplemental was enacted. What is the status of the plan for using the funding as congress intended . I presume there is a plan. Kevin mcaleenan of course. About half of the funding is dedicated to enhanced facilities at the border where we can provide additional space, reduce overcrowding, and improve the care of those in the custody of cbp during their short stay at the border. We have erected four facilities, two in south texas, two in el paso, and by the end of this month, well have another 4,500 spaces online and additional set of temporary facilities in those locations. Half of the money is allocated for that purpose. Whats the other half . Kevin mcaleenan the rest of it covers a range of issues from paying for the surge force of agents and officers down there helping with the humanitarian mission. Theres temporary deployment. Their temporary deployment. It adds to our medical contracts so that we can provide embedded medical professionals in our facilities. It augments our ability to pay for supplies and food. I referenced the 6 million meals that we provided. Just to be clear, all this money is being used for the humanitarian efforts and not for i. C. E. Deportation efforts or other Enforcement Actions, correct . Kevin mcaleenan thats how it was appropriated. I want to be clear, congressman, that creates a challenge because we asked for funding for i. C. E. Single adult beds and it was not granted. Those single adults are waiting at the border for placement with i. C. E. I understand. Just to be clear, that is how the money was funded so thats how we expect it to be used. Kevin mcaleenan thats correct. For purposes of our letter, we expect a response. How the money is going to be spent and on what timeline, it has to be transparent so we can actually measure your efforts against your plan. Do i have your insurance we will receive that plan . Do we have your sharons we will receive that plan . Assurance we will receive that plan . Kevin mcaleenan we are transparent to our oversight on how we are spending money and we will continue to be. Do we have your assurance that you will respond to the letter with information requested . Kevin mcaleenan we will respond to all appropriate requests. I havent seen the letter. Kevin mcaleenan ill talk to my staff about where it is in the process. I expect a response. You served as commissioner prior to your current role at the helm of dhs. 70 current or former employees are now under investigation for posting racist, sexist and other inappropriate comments about migrants and members of congress to a secret Facebook Group a secret Facebook Group for Border Patrol agents with over 9,500 numbers. Were you a member of that group . Kevin mcaleenan no. Is mark morgan a current or former member of that group . Kevin mcaleenan i dont know, but i dont believe so. Sir, what are the efforts to investigate those particular comments of the members of that group . Kevin mcaleenan cbps office of professional responsibility initiated the investigation within hours of those allegations coming to light. As you noted, they already placed a number of individuals under investigation. They put several on administrative duties and are issuing cease and desist letters and are moving very quickly to hold people accountable for conduct that doesnt meet our standards. When will we receive a report on the results of that investigation . Kevin mcaleenan again, its proceeding aggressively. I would say probably this month, early next month we will be able to update on the results of those investigations. We find this conduct extremely troubling and expect to receive that report. Would you be willing to come back in to discuss that report . Kevin mcaleenan certainly. Or cbp will come. Sir, last question which is this, the zero tolerance policy that was adopted, how do you define zero tolerance under this administration with regard to immigration policies . Kevin mcaleenan consistent with the president s executive order from january 25, 2017, that we would no longer have exceptions categorical exceptions to enforcement Immigration Law and two, under the april 6 letter which is to have all unlawful entry cases be submitted for prosecution by the doj. At that you are finished, please finish. I thought you were finished, please finish. Kevin mcaleenan during zero tolerance the increase for about 20 to 50 by eliminating that categorical exception. Thank you very much. Mr. Roy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Quick question in response to my colleagues question. Is it true that zero dollars are the supplemental for ice the tension for single and family units . Kevin mcaleenan thats correct. Isnt that part of the problem . Kevin mcaleenan it is. Wasnt it purposeful by my democratic colleagues . Kevin mcaleenan i assume they didnt want to fund i want to emphasize the impact of adults. At the border. Its not just a humanitarian crisis. We have a crisis of national security, overstretched resources, endangerment of american citizens, migrants along the journey at the hands of cartels. Kevin mcaleenan it is also a Border Security crisis. Cartels, they are to movey profiting people to the United States. Kevin mcaleenan 3 billion plus a year. The poster shows prices for moving people through mexico and to the United States. Do you agree it is true that certain dangerous cartels design to exploit american laws for profit to move human beings for profit and that they charge money per person as depicted in this chart . Kevin mcaleenan yes. I met a family from honduras that said they paid 10,000 to come across. Do you agree they use children as a ticket for profit to come to the United States. Kevin mcaleenan yes. How many people have come across the border and sought to be detained or were apprehended from october 1 to present, north of 700,000 . Kevin mcaleenan single adults are not by and large turning themselves in. They are trying to evade capture and embedded in that group are unfortunately gang members, hardened criminals. The group that didnt seek to be turned over is well over 700,000 . Over 800,000. N there are hundreds of thousands of people who crossed our border who were not apprehended . Kevin mcaleenan there are. Is it not true that Border Patrol is overwhelmed . Kevin mcaleenan 800,000. How many are single adults . Are they mostly male . Kevin mcaleenan predominantly male. Kevin mcaleenan how many were family units . Kevin mcaleenan 450,000. Of those, how many were adults and children . Are these family units claiming asylum or largely using a child as a ticket for catch and release . Kevin mcaleenan the latter. We see a number of asylum claims but it has gone down this year from the become 30 from those encounters at the asylum. Is it true that the issue of uacs could be solved with a fixed tpra and can be done on a single piece of paper . Kevin mcaleenan yes. Is it true we can solve the problem by addressing the settlement on essentially a single piece of paper . Kevin mcaleenan yes, that was our experience in 2014 and 2015. Is it true with respect to the family unit problem, representing the majority of the search across our border, that the Obama Administration supported a solution to the problem, and again we can solve it on a single piece of paper . Kevin mcaleenan yes. Is it true that the Obama Administration asked for 762 million for i. C. E. To deal with the problem in 2014 of unaccompanied children, the surge where children were riding on the top of train cars. Kevin mcaleenan we all asked for additional appropriations at dhs, yes. Does that amount seem correct . Kevin mcaleenan that sounds like the ballpark. That is what i am told. Is it true that the supplemental just past came with significant restrictions to how it can be used . Kevin mcaleenan thats correct. Zero dollars, purposely zero dollars for ice beds and i. C. E. Detention, is that correct. Kevin mcaleenan thats correct. Do you anticipate the democratic led will bring any solutions to the floor for a float this week . Vote this week . Kevin mcaleenan probably not this week. So for money for i. C. E. The things we know would solve the problem, you are not anticipating that will be brought to the floor this next week before we adjourn for the august recess. Kevin mcaleenan i dont see any legislative action that would make this possible at this time. Which begs the question why. Which begs the question why. I will tell you why. My democrat colleagues prefer to use children as political props. Thank you, no more questions. Thank you very much. As i said earlier when i opened, you have to be careful about the motives of our members. That goes to both sides. With that, we now will hear from ms. Spear. Thank you. Hold up. The bells have rung. Spear will be the last person and then we will go into recess. Is it 3 00 . I am just letting you know. Ms. Spear. Thank you. Thank you, director. I was with 16 other colleagues several dozen times. So, this is familiar to you. With thoselies caged blankets . Yes. Is it familiar. This is what we saw at the processing center. Could in a cell that probably under normal circumstances accommodate maybe five. Is putting his fingers up shown that he has been there for 40 days and 40 nights without a shower and without being able to brush his teeth. I confirm that with the Border Patrol officers. This would not be allowed as a kennel for dogs. That is how we are housing them in you know the report is filled with a number for 500 men as well. It is unacceptable and it has to change. We dont treat human beings like that. Can i respond to those comments . You can after i ask you about a case study in a report that you have the benefits of looking at. Youve had it since last friday. It is job number three. He was 19 months old when he arrived at the border. He was taken from his father and transported to foster care in new york before being released to a sponsor. He was sentenced to a facility in texas and new jersey and new york before being released. Why was this 19 month baby taken from his father . First come on the conditions, there is no one in this room that is more [inaudible] concerned about them. We did not get the money for single adult beds that would allow them to move out. I want to make that point clear. Secondly, on this case, i would have i would be happy to youve have this report since last friday. To should have come prepared answer these cases. Im wondering why you were not able to do so during i reviewed the report and explained to the congressman our policies. I directed that we would not all ife, prosecute and the child was under five years old. If that happened, it was likely due to another issue in that adults history or with the situation with the child that resulted in separation. We dont know if the child was ever reunited with the other. We do. We have lots of different ways to confirm this. We are reporting biweekly the results of their own class in the reunification of that class. We have the ability to see which lts arrive with was child which adults arrived with which child. One of the children we met was an eightyearold. His mother was dead, father was utterly and he was brought here by his 25yearold sister and was separated at the border. 16yearoldother with an infant that has a mother notew york, but is going to the reunited with her sponsor for as much as 60 days. Some of these cases are being handled in a way that does not recognize if you are a family, the family unit should be retained and i want you to look. T ways of improving the system they should not have been separated. Homeless, now is parentless and has lost his sibling. We cant treat people like this. Offered in their consideration and modification to the act that requires a child by law be considered unaccompanied and the only option we have at the border in the case is to transfer the child to health and Human Services where they make a decision. We would like to discuss the opportunity to have more flexibility. The committee stands and recess. An hourreconvene half after the last boat begins. We stand in recess. After a break for votes, Kevin Mcaleenan continued testifying before the House Oversight and reform committee. Lawmakers priced him on topics including Living Conditions for migrant families and the need for additional funding for operations on the u. S. Mexico border. This is two hours 15 minutes. We will reconvene the hearing. As soon as our witness get. Eated, we will have mr. Keller i know we have been and i want to applaud the people everyday at our border. T is a tragedy we have talked about ways that we might improve what is happening at our southern borders. References made and also to the trafficking victims reauthorization act. Items that are helpful in making sure we can stop the crisis at our southern border. Is that correct . Weare there other items that could put in place to help you that work for border customs for troll to help you do jobs. We have talked about three targeted changes coming to our border. You mentioned modifying to allow us to [inaudible] Families Together and allow repatriation of children, but we have also added the opportunity for children to apply as a potential bounce and legislation we have been discussing, but the third change is a modification of the process which is a standard. Recommended a change to make it more likely than not and we think that would allow for valid claims to come through, but better align the front and task. If congress were to fix those that youa way recommended, how long will it take you to implement policy and changes to improve the conditions and make sure there is not such a crisis at her border . I think it would be a fairly Immediate Impact and we have Historical Context for this. In 2014, when the decision was made to detain family units, we had a 90 drop off in family units crossing the border in a matter of weeks. I think we will see a quick change when the loophole is closed. I guess i would want to say than if the democratic leadership with bring up the change to allow to do our job, we would stop seeing children and families being trafficked into our southern border. I clearly believe that would be the case. Results, but we need people to be in custody, adjudicated at the border for that to happen effectively. We have seen a dramatic drop as well. I guess i would say this for my colleagues, i would encourage the speaker and democratic leadership to not only do these things, but fix the other areas of immigration policies that are broken so that we dont have the crisis at a reporter if we truly care about families. Toour duty to do tools give the tools so this does not happen if we truly care about children and whats happening. Im committed to make sure we help that happen. I would encourage my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to push for that resolution. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. July 6th, the New York Times published details. Here is what the times wrote. Outbreaks of scabies, shingles and chicken pox were spreading among hundreds of children and adults held in cramped cells. The stench of the childrens dirty clothing spread to the agents own clothing. People in town would scrunch their noses when they left work. Children cried constantly. One girl seemed likely enough to kill herself that the agents made her sleep on a cot in front of them so they could watch her as they were processing new arrivals. You were asked about these the next day on abc news, these allegations and you said they were, quote, unsubstantiated and you explained because theres adequate food and water, because the facility is cleaned up every day, because i know what our standards are and i know theyre being followed, because we have tremendous levels of oversight, five levels of oversight. That includes the departments independent Inspector General, correct . Yes. And it also includes lawyers who monitor compliance with the florida settlement to ensure that the children are protected, correct . It does include the court oversight, which is part of the monitors. In a sense in that statement youre citing all these various levels of oversight. It includes iag and lawyers who do the monitoring under floresiag testified in front of our committee friday along with a lawyer who inspected that facility and interviewed children. Ig inspected five detention facilities in the rio grande valley, housing over 2500 children. She found more than 800 had been held longer than the 72 hours permitted under the flores agreement and internal standards. This included at least 50 unaccompanied children younger than 7 years old, many of them in detention for over two weeks. Do you agree, you must, that holding Young Children in overcrowded detention cells for over two weeks violates both the flores decision and the ted and standards . Not only do i agree, while the ig was touring our facilities june 10th on cnn i said no american should be comfortable with children in a Police Station for days on end. Its not an appropriate setting for kids. The ig, quote, teams also documented additional assistances of noncompliance with applicable detention centers, noncompliance with standards applicable to the detention of alien children, including lack of access to hot meals, showers and a change of clothes. You dont seem to be disputing the igs findings that dhs violated flores and its own detention standards. I would like to unpack these if i have time at the end ill let you unpack that. I want to reference what a lawyer who visited clint as part of the flores oversight was testifying to, quote, seeing children who were dirty, children who wore clothing that was visibly stained with dirt, nasal mucus, breast milk. None of the children reported having access to soap to wash their hands. Many children had not showered, bathed for days. Many had not showered or bathed once since crossing the border. They reported they did not have access to clean clothing. So i get i understand that there is a debate about why were where we are, but there cannot be any debate, and i assume you agree, that when youre dealing with children, there are basic standards, humanitarian standards when it comes to their treatment that need to be followed. This is gut wrenching testimony that we got. Its unconscionable we would treat children this way in the United States. And what she was witnessing clearly does not comply with dhss detention standards and the flores agreement. Ill let you speak now i just want to ask you, beseech you and your department to take more ownership of the treatment standards here, leaving aside why its happening. Weve got our own perspectives and they probably differ from that. Once a child is in that situation, its a matter of human compassion we treat them with decency and humanitarian response. Mr. Chairman, i would appreciate the opportunity to answer the remarks of the congressman. Thank you. So, first, i do not agree more that overcrowding of children in our facilities is not an appropriate situation or result. Thats why i asked for a supplemental that included 3. 3 billion for health and Human Services to increase their bed space capacity for unaccompanied children. In my Opening Statement i explained within weeks of receiving that funding weve reduced our custody population of high near 2700 to about 350 at the end of the day yesterday. From over 1200 kids that were with us for more than 72 hours to fewer than 50 at the end of the day yesterday. Thats what we were able to do with the resources we asked for and waited for two months for congress to act upon. I agree with you, we need to take ownership of the care and custody of children at the border but we need Congress Help to do that. As soon as we got it, we applied it effectively and urgently. To clarify the various allegations that you walked through in terms of difficult situations at the border, i personally have explained those situations that were in the igs findings multiple times in public, press conferences and hearings and how concerned we were about it, why we needed congress to help change the law and provide the resources necessary to care for children. You referenced the flores monitors. Those that visited clint station interviewed children in a conference room. They did not go into the custody areas of the facility. They did not see the supplies available. They did not see the toothbrushes available. I was in clint last week. I talked to a coast guard volunteer in charge of procurement. He told me they had tens of thousands of toothbrushes in the sector, including available at clint station. When i said the allegations were unsubstantiated, i was speaking to the flores monitors who said the children didnt have toothbrushes, food. Clint had 700 kids in custody at one point. Absolutely it was overcrowded. 200 in a single day, after a difficult journey, held in squaller conditions by smugglers. We have clothes there. Were giving them new clothes. Its really challenging when youre that overwhelmed. Weve added additional showers to make sure every kid can take a shower within the first 24 hours when they roiv at that station and its been a huge effort on behalf of those men and women to do their absolute level best to take care of children. I want to make sure that this committee has that context and doesnt assume we took it lightly or are just shrugging our shoulders. Were fighting this children, asking help from congress. As soon as we got it, we applied. Its a much better situation for children at that border now. Mr. Kosar . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Some of my colleagues comments, secretary mcaleenan, can you tell me how the recycling of children is a problem at the border . Sure, congressman. And this is part of our efforts to identify how these loopholes in our law are generating behavior that puts children at risk and how we can address it, not only with our border reurceso but our investigative partners at Homeland Security investigations. Early in my tenure, hsi deployed agents to the border in the rio grande where we see most of the family units riesk to focus on the potential for adults bringing children with them who are not their own, just to try to evade enforcement of our Immigration Laws. In that initial several weeks with the referrals from the Border Patrol agents they found 15 of those individuals, a risk with this family. We dont think this adult is a parent and it was substantiated that they were not related. Child recycling is the worst example of it. I. C. E. Has three significant cases, multiple cities around the country where theyve identified a small group of children, five to eight children, who are being used by dozens of adults to cross our border, seeking release into the United States. So, theyre pursuing those cases in the appropriate prosecutions. Its a huge indication that gaps in our framework are putting children at risk. Youre aware of that even in early 2014 that the cartels were actually in Central America, extorting families to send their children to the United States . Are you aware of that . Yes, im aware. So we are enabling this enterprise to move forward. Now youre familiar with child protective services, are you not, in this country . Broadly, yes. If i took my child from flag staff, arizona, and went to seattle, knowing that theres a 30 chance thats going to be some type of criminal enterprise along the lines, not knowing that im going to get food and water and protection, would my child be able to stay with now, over and over again we still dont really understand the complexity of what youre under, so is it easier to take care of individual men coming across or family . What takes more work from your standpoint from your work force . For processing and care, we have very high standards for children in our custody, and anywhere in federal custody. Single adults is what our structure was built for. These stations were built most of them decades ago, primarily the crossings end were single adult males from mexico. They were with us just a few hours before being repatriated. Thats the structure thats existed on the border for decades. This sort of population with unaccompanied children and families is a difficult challenge for us given the resources we have at the border. The status of some of a child going through this long arduous journey, theyre probably pretty debilitated health wise. We see a lot of disease and illnesses. In some case weve had immediate surgery. They came to the border to have surgery. We are being faced with a younger and sicker population this year than weve ever seen at the border before. And its going to get worse for you. My understanding is yesterday or last night the World Health Organization actually declared an outbreak of ebola. Now that they cant contain in kongala. How is that going to implicate you in looking at the people unites and how will it slow down the processing of individuals . Well, having medical professionals in our facilities gives us a chance to screen children and adults arriving into facilities to ensure they dont have a communicable disease. The its something were going to watch carefully. Im in close contact on the Ebola Outbreak and we have a responsibility at the border to be aware of it. Is there one thing we could have help with hhs that you would ask for that would expedite some of those issues . So the Public Health Service Commission core, these are uniform doctors and Nurse Practitioners that have been in the border facilities with us. The funding and support for those tremendous professionals in uniform working alongside us is a huge benefit, and helps us carry out our mission. Thank you very much. I yield myself now these minutes to ask questions. I sit here, mr. Secretary, and wonder the things that always has bothered me and is bothering me about this hearing is it seems that we have a tendency to i want to say sugar coat, but clearly theres something going wrong down at the border, a lot. My republican friends have said that we just declared and said this was an emergency. Ive been begging for a hearing before i became chairman. Begging. And the thing that i think bothers me the most is that when i see the pictures and i hear the testimony by the way, im going down there myself, and id love for you to accompany me, because i want us to see the same things. I can tell you that im at a point where i begin to wonder whether there is an empathy deficit, an empathy deficit. So mr. Secretary, i was disappointed when you decided last year to ignore the request for documents that i made with representative meadows. A bipartisan request. And you refused to reduce a single produce a single document about these kids. Which is why we had to issue subpoenas. How much money have are we spending . How much money are we spending of the american peoples dollars, theyre hardearned tax dollars, how much are we spending . On which issue . On all of them. Just give me a ballpark figure. Ill take it . Department of Homeland Security is a 60 billion entity with fees. Cbp is about 15 billion. Yeah. Thats a lot of money. In april of this year you gave an interview with lester holt at nbc. You claim that the children you separated were, and i quote, always intended to be reunited. You also said that, and i quote. Really, it was done very effectively. Border patrol agents kept very careful records. Between the relationships between parents and children. And those connections were made very expeditiously by health and Human Services working with the department of Homeland Security, end of quote. Given everything that has come out and everything that we now know, do you still stand by that Statement Today . Is it your testimony today that you reunited these children effectively and expeditiously . Mr. Chairman, in that interview, and in response to a number of questions and hearings on the same topic, what ive talked about then as cbp commissioner is our Border Patrol capturing the relationship between children at. Have not historically interfaced with one another in a way thats easy to track the files thats something were going to improve under the funding we got in the supplemental. That said, i think the response to the order and how fast the majority of children were reunified spoke to good captures of data and a tremendous effort by hhs and i. C. E. To find the child and parent and bring them together. I think thats in the record of the Court Filings in the weeks after that ruling. Thats interesting you raise that. The judge in that case said your agency did a better job of tracking immigrants personal property than their children. So you could find their keys, but you could not find their children. Come on, now. Im referencing the result yeah . Well, we talking about the same case. You quoted from it and i did. Im talking about the results. Im talking about human beings. Im not talking about people that come from as the president said, sh holes. Those are human beings. Human beings just trying to live a better life. So the problem with your claim is that it is contradicted by the facts. We now have documents and they show this not to be true. And i dont say that lightly. Your claim is also refuted by not one but two independent inspectors general. In 2018, dhs issued a scathing report that this, and i quote, dhs was not fully prepared to implement the Administration Zero Tolerance policy or to deal with some of the aftereffects. Dhs also struggled to identify, track, and reunify families separated under zero tolerance due to limitations with its Information Technology systems including a lack of integraonti stems between systems, end of quote. The igo also found that the trump admistranions public claim that you had a, quote, central database, and listen to this, mr. Secretary, the ig said it was blatantly false. They also found that, quote, theres no evidence that such a database even exists. End of quote. Mr. Meadows, to his credit, has often said, and we all have said we want transparency, and can you understand when we hear that kind of information listening to the ig who was independent, see what and listen to our colleagues who have been there right on the ground, and then we hear youre talking about a database, no database. That seems to go in the opposite direction of transparency and, therefore, when we hear about stories coming out from you and your agency that everything is pretty good, youre doing a great job. I guess you feel like youre doing a great job. Right . Is that what youre saying . Were doing our level best in a challenging what does that mean . What does that mean when a child is sitting in their own feeces, cant take a shower come on, man. What is that about . None of us would have our children in that position. They are human beings. And im trying to figure out, an i get tired of folks saying oh, oh, they just beating up on the Border Patrol. Oh, they just beating up on Homeland Security. What i am saying is i want to concentrate on these children and i want to make sure that they are okay. I will say it. Ve saidt before, a ill say it again. sit not the deed that you do to a child. Its the memory. Its the memory. And so and i told the head o boer patrol the other day, i said i wanto know whats happening in the meantime. We are the United States of america. We are the greatest country in the world. We are the ones that can go anywhere in the world and save people. Make sure they have diapers, make surehey tave toothbrushes, make sure theyre not laying around defecating in some silver paper. Come on. Were better than that and i dont want us to lose sight of that. When we are dancing with the angels, these children will be dealing with the issues that have been presented to them. How do you say to a twoyearold, your mother, we cant find your mother, but we can find her keys. We can find her keys. Got your mamas keys. And so, i just think we can do better. And we can go on and on and on, but im hoping that we will see some immediate improvements. I just want i just want to see an improvement, and i want to see it, and i want to see where we go with this filing. Finally let me ask you this, mr. Secretary. And that wasnt the only thing in the report. The Inspector General at hhs issued a report in january of 2019. That report found that the Trump Administration and i quote, faced significant challenges in identifying separated children including the lack of existing integrated data system to track separated families across hhs and dhs, and the complexity of determining which children should be considered separated. They also criticized your agency, dhs provided orr with limited information about the reasons for the separations which may impede orrs ability to determine appropriate placements. As a result, the ig found that the separated children, and i quote, were still being identified more than five months after the original court order to do so. Both the ig reports were issued before you made your statements in april. So mr. Secretary, have you read those reports . Yes, i have. And then how in the world can you sit here today under oath and defend your statement that you kept very careful records that you worked with hhs very effectively and efficiently and that you reunited children expeditiously . Respectfully by the way, very expeditiously, you said. Respectfully, i actually highlighted that issue before you asked the question. But and ive testified on it before. We did have a lack of integrated databases. That is correct. What ive testified before and what i stated a few moments ago was that the cbp data was carefully captured. It was not available in an integrated fashion from an i. T. Perspective, but when you put all the information together with what hhs and i. C. E. Had, they were able to work within weeks to reunite the vast majority of the adults and childrens. And at this time, every child as an identified has on identified parent. Secondly, i would welcome the opportunity to see our men and women and how hard they are working to care for children. They are Holding Children that were not their own, broad across by smugglers, putting formula and baby bottles together. Theres no one defecating in a mylar blanket. We are taking care of these children thanks to the resources we finally have. Theyre moving very quickly through our facilities to a better situation. Id be happy to show you that at the border. Im looking forward to it. Well make the arrangements as soon as possible. Ranking member. Mr. Secretary, would it have helped if you got the resources when you asked for be them . Of course. When did you become acting secretary . April 10th of this year. A couple weeks later you asked for money . Yes. You asked for money because you wanted to address the underlying problem. They wont build the Border Security wal or fix asylum. Say its contrived when it is a crisis. Then it gets worse and then they blame you who took the position in april and asked for help three weeks later and then they wait two and a half months to send the money. And when they send the money, we had the picture of the 40 individual males in the adult males in the facility. You asked for i. C. E. For bed money. What did they say . They didnt provide it. Didnt provide it. And yet youre the bad guy. You take the position in april, ask for resources a couple weeks later. They deny the resources for two and a half months and then when the problem is so bad, they say its your fault, even though yoif been trying to address the underlying problem, and then you say at least give us the money to address the crisis. It gets so bad they finally send the money but put limitations on it because they want the political issue. We all care about the kids. This is ridiculous. Let me ask you this. We all know theres a crisis on the border. Does accuseing agents of torture help the crisis . No. Does accusing agents of working at concentration camps help the crisis . No. When the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee accuses folks working hard of negligent homicide, does that help the crisis . Of course not. Would abolishing i. C. E. Help with the crisis . No. Would abolishing your agency help with the crisis . No. Does waiting ten two and a half months to get the 4. 4. 6 billion you asked for two weeks after you took the job, does that help with the crisis . No. And it left children in these situations way too long. Weve proven as soon as we got the resources, we were able to put them in a much better situation. Does denying money for i. C. E. Beds help with the problem . No. Thats contributing to overcrowding thats still existing today. I dont know how many times youve said it already. Two things right now would help. Give you the money for the i. C. E. Beds, and fix florez. And i think you said to mr. Keller, you think that would be almost immediate action, immediate help within a couple weeks you would see the message sent so these people wont take this dangerous trip. Would that help immediately . Thats right. Yet the majority doesnt want to do it. Doesnt want to do it. Chairman just called it a deficit. He accused you and your agents and your agency of a deficit of empathy. You want to respond to that mr. Secretary . I can tell you the men and women of dhs where is that picture . I want you to take as long as you want. Put this picture up. Does that look like a deficit of empathy . That happens every day on the border, doesnt it . Right. I wonder why would an agency if they have a deficit of empathy create a border search and rescue team to try to protect people making the crossing. They make over 4,000 rescues a year on their own time so they can help people in dangerous conditions. Where is the deficit of empathy there . These are predominantly latino Border Patrol agents with children of their own. Theyre trying to protect them on the line and trying to do the best they can. You said theyre predominantly latino Border Agents . Thats correct. Majority of them are of hispanic dissent . Border patrol agents, yes. Yeah. It doesnt help. It doesnt help. At some point we have to get past all this and focus on what is driving the problem. And we all know what it is. Florez has to be fixed. The asylum law, the lop hole, it has to be addressed and while were getting that done, why dont we give you a few more dollars to take the adult males, have enough beds for them so theyre not in the facility like the picture before. That would be great. And by the way, maybe if we had a Border Security wall, that would help as well. Not all these people are coming to ports of entry. A lot of folks are coming across, too. I mean, all this is part of the all this is part of the problem. Lets fix it. Lets fix it instead of just saying the things weve been saying. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back. Thank you very much. Mr. Norton. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i want to thank you for your testimony, and i know i speak for this entire committee when i thank the border personnel for the work theyre doing well beyond the call of duty. There is no disagreement about that. I just want to see where we were in order to see where weve gotten because some of your testimony is helpful in showing progress and i understand youre fairly recently there. What you had to deal with is a policy where 4,000 children were separated from their parents since mid 2017. There was a cancellation. I want you to note this of what had proved one of the few successful policies that was from the obama era where which apparently kept people out of detention and its called the family Case Management program where families had to report having within released, had to report and there was a 99 success rate on that. Only a tenth of what the family detention costs. Then there was another Trump Administration policy where they targeted sponsors of children for arrest and deportation, and im talking about 170 potential sponsors who came forward for these children. Then they were deported, so you can see the effect that would have. That has chilled that humanitarian response. Now, congress has prohibited that practice now, im pleased to say. But it is still having an effect, because dhs and hhs are sharing records, so people are not stepping forward. And then, of course, there was the metering process. And weve discussed that in this committee. Dhs found that limiting the volume of Asylum Seekers and here im quoting, entering at ports of entry leads some aliens who would otherwise seek legal entry into the United States to cross the border illegally. Mr. Secretary, i take it you agree that those policies, some of which you were not a part of, did exacerbate crowding at cbp facilities . Could i tackle those one by one . Remember, i have only for being at our Ribbon Cutting for the new department of Homeland Security head quarters. Happy to do that. I need you to answer i have a limited amount of time. Did it exacerbate the policies or not, sir . No. What ive just described did not exacerbate the policiess . If youre going to ask in a blanket way, id prefer you raised four issues. Im going to let you go back in a moment, but i have limited time. Will you agree that this family Management Program which i described 99 success rate, people showing up was successful . Would you agree that was a successful way to relieve overcrowding, and yet, get compliance with the law . So, i can agree it was successful in ensuring compliance with the law. We have families that are not detained we dont complete the process in a way thats effective. 99 of the families showed up. Appeared for their initial hearing. At this point we have 150 cases of final orders of removal and if families have not showed we can only go on the sta disings we have for us, and so youre saying that that program where you had such a high rate of compliance was not successful after all, even given the figure i just gave you . They appeared at their initial hear, but they did not complete the process in a way that allowed for repatriation. Im only trying to show that if you release these families, they will show up. You seem to want to avoid any credit of these families for compliance with what the law says. Show up here, 99 showed up here. Why did you get rid of that program . Because it wasnt working. Because it was actually more costly to continue to pay for it day after day when a family was released than complete a proceeding in 40 to 50 days in custody. Because we have 150 orders of families that are not showing up to be repatriated. Thats not successful. Thank you. The gentle ladys time has expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ive been to the border, and i have absolutely not seen any indication of a deficit of empathy. In fact, just the opposite is what i have seen over and over and over. Im returning back to the border at the end of next week. And it is unbelievable that such accusations would be hurled against you and those agents who are working so hard and giving so much of their time, and so ask for seeing improvements, theres no question as you have testified that as the funds came, which the democrats continuously held back from coming, as the funds were made available, improvements have been evident. And theyve been stunning. Id like to ask you regarding the cartels renting of children, ive seen that agents are now even beginning to find paper fliers advertising. This type of thing. Is that true . Yes. I mean, weve seen direct facebook advertisements in Central America. Smugglers will use any means necessary to get customers. How much does it cost to rent a child . It depends. Weve had indications in Homeland Security investigation in Border Patrol agents it could cost anywhere from a few hundred or even in some cases less than 100 up to 1,000 or more. Walk us through the process. Parents, someone responds a child is offered . Yeah. In many of these communities in Central America, its pretty known who the alien smuggler is whos willing to bring you to the United States is in the communities. Theyll have a situation where Everybody Knows if they bring a child, theyre allowed to stay in the u. S. They call it a passport for migration. I heard that directly from a person from guatemala. If they have an individual who wants to go to the u. S. , and someone has a child they want to be delivered to a relative in the u. S. Or they want to rent them, they say take my child and theyre smuggled to the u. S. In the u. S. Border. The u. S. Border. And the cartel . Theyre getting paid for the fraudulent document, the smuggling event, and the child is being put at risk. Any idea how many children are being trafficked like this . So thats a huge concern. Weve identified 5500 cases of raud in family units in just the death fraud in family units in fraud in family units in just the eight weeks or so weve had special agents helping our Border Patrol agents with the investigations. 15 of those theyve interviewed have turned out to be fraudulent cases. That tells me that we might be scratching the surface of this problem. And the number of children put at risk might be even higher. If i could give you a stat, of the first units interviewed, 352 were fraudulent, 14. 2 . 920 fraudulent documents uncovered and weve prosecuted 1600 individuals were smuggling a child with fraudulent documents. So thats just in the last eight weeks weve been doing this operation. Unbelievable. Another issue is that obviously the treatment of migrants. Weve heard in this room that there are people being held in rooms with no Running Water. We heard several days ago that people are being forced to drink from toilets whereas the regional Border Patrol chief, chief border agent aaron hole has disputed these allegations and have said theyre absolutely not accurate. That no one is forced to drink from toilets noting that cells either have water fountains or five gallon jugs of water. Whats the truth of the matter . Thats our requirement by our policy. Again, its overseen by multiple layers of oversight. Every station ive been to has both Running Water and sometimes a faucet will break temporarily, but has Running Water or the five gallon jugs outside. Children must be in the least restrictive setting. Their doors are not even locked or theyre able to move around freely. We are providing water directly available in our custody. Maintaining Border Agents has got to be in recruiting, a serious problem. I know youre working on it. Theres about 7,000 fewer than needed as i understand it. Does it help when some elected officials refer and liken our agents with nazis and claim the agency is running concentration camps . I talked about it in my opening how unproductive and unacceptable demeanizing Law Enforcement professionals who chose a career protecting others is. It does not help. We are turning the corner on our recruiting due to about three dozen process changes over the last several years at cbp. We hired more agents and that agents last year than we started the year with and were going to do it again with the shutdown. Were making progress, but it is a challenge. Thank you, mr. Secretary. I yield back. Thank you very much. I want to just clarify something. Because we have a way at times of hearing a few words, and then we repeat them over and over again. He said something that i didnt say. And i from the very beginning i said i dont want us to get confused with regard to the mr. Secretary, with regard to the good work that the folks down there are doing. What i was saying, and i know what i said, is that you were a cosigner of the zero tolerance document. Is that right . Would you agree . Would you like the context on that or just yes or no . No. I just want to make a point. Just trying to correct him. You were involved in that i signed a memo presenting options for increasing prosecutions for immigration violations at the border. Ill give you time later to explain that. All im saying and i felt, i felt that there was an empathy deficit there, in that. Not knocking the Border Patrol people, and didnt say that. Now, mr. Gomez. Thank you, mr. Chair. Before i start, i want to break up my questioning. The percentage of the individuals coming from that are apprehended at the border, thats the percentage from mexico . Whats the percentage from guatemala . Whats the percentage from the three countries honduras, and nicaragua . For every month of the year guatemala has been higher than mexico and four of the five months the number has been higher from honduras as well. Additionally, have you heard of the fact that net migration from mexico is inherently zero . Additionally, the undocumented population in the u. S. Has decreased and thats because a lot of mexicans are returning back to mexico. Definitely seen studies on the firth point. Im not sure the second point is accurate at this stage given the flow weve seen this year. The reason i want to bring that up is that there was a claim made earlier that says immigrants know if they bring a child to the border that theyll be able to cross and to get asylum into this country. And it seems that we only focus on what they called the magnet. Right . Right. But yet, at the same time, if do the mexicans also know about this magnet . The fact as you claim . Actually, were able and more successful at repatriating mexican families but as you noted, the numbers have been down for mexico not necessarily because they couldnt take advantage of the same loopholes but because mexicos opportunity creation has exceeded the push for migration. Theyve also had a very significant demographic shift. The birthrate is about similar with the United States. I dont believe that thats a lack of taking advantage of the loophole. Okay. My point thats exactly my point. Everybody always makes it seem that this is, like, that theres this big magnet that draws immigrants to this country, and its just here. But theres also the push factors in other countries economics, violence that push those people to flee. Right . And we like to make pretend things are very simple, but theyre not. And sometimes when the hard lines of zero tolerance, people think thats going to solve the problem. Its not. It has to be in coordination with a strategy thats developing the countries and helping the economics in the countries in order for the people not to leave. You know, shifting millions of dollars of aid from the northern triangle countries to venezuela is not smart when it comes to immigration. I believe that venezuela has a different issue and we have to get money to that country, but that complicates the situation. Before i run out of time, i want to move to a different issue can i respond to that point . I believe in multifaceted strategy requires engagement in Central America. Ive been there three times in the last six weeks. I met with all three president s including the incoming president of el salvador. Targeting transnational crime organizations is an essential part of the administrations strategy. I appreciate that. One of the things we also have seen is an increased use of for profit prisons and safety issues. Since 2017 the value of i. C. E. Contracts awarded to private detention companies has increased. The two biggest contracts geogroup and core civic were paid a total of 810 million, but there has been some questions regarding some Serious Problems at these private prisons. The ig reported on five i. C. E. Detention facilities including one run by core civic, and it said identified problems that undermined the protection of rights the humane healthy and safe environment. Next year, theyll be awarded million in new contracts. Secretary, do you agree that i. C. E. Should not reward a contract thats putting the health and safety of detainees at risk with more than 100 million in new contracts . With any government contract you want to ensure the contractor is meeting the requirements. The contractors are committed to comply with the warmest days standards issued in 2011 in the last administration, and those kind of issues that are identified are corrected and followed up on. Mr. Secretary, i ran out of time, but the issue regarding the use of for profit prisons is a concern, some of the safety complaints that are coming out of the prisons is a concern. I would love to follow up on that, but with that i yield back. Mr. Norman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I really appreciate you coming, and listening to some of the questions youve had, its like shooting the messenger. Its like pointing to a cancer patient and blachling the doctor because hes not getting the chemotherapy to treat the cancer patient and saying that youre responsible for that. And mr. Chairman, i appreciate you clarifying the deficit of empathy empathy. I think thats who you were talking about here. Im glad it was not. I take issue with the rhetoric weve had over the last couple weeks with drinking out of toilets, children in cages. Cole said, it can be solved by one the floraser, amendment. I have been to the border as mr. Heise and many others. I have seen them jump down, arrest a fleeing alien, tackle him, not knowing whether he will be shot or live to see his children. I have seen the sheriff who, at a dinner when he woke up at 3 00 in the morning, and 12 thugs were attacking him has shooting his house up. I have seen the families who have been robbed repeatedly. The have got their cars chai ned because of what the drug cartels are putting all of their families through. I appreciate your effort and taking these questions knowing that most of them are for politics. It is behind these cabinets we can fix this. There has been a lot of confusion who actually shows up at immigration hearings. Can you give me clarity . Sec. Mcaleenan the appearance rates are important issue. That is overseen by the department of justice, office of review. Published a bunch of documents to provide context. I went to offer the big picture and then a more recent that of concern across all demographics for a 44 of those nondetained removal cases end with a removal order in absentia. The alien did not show up for their hearing at the end of that process. They got a final order from a judge when they were absent from the hearing room. Crossing now, and family units, the number appears to be higher. We worked on a pilot with the department of justice last september. In that pilot, it is called an expedited docket. In 10 cities 5 of those cases, final orders of removal have been issued in absentia as well. But is what we are dealing with on the appearance rate. That is what we are dealing with on the appearance rates. Beeny cases that have expedited, it is 85 . Rep. Norman you have been very open and frank about the overcrowding conditions and you were crowded quoted in the media saying things were unsubstantiated. What were you referring to . Sec. Mcaleenan the the people not going into the facility at clint where they said people didnt have access and were not given showers for days on end, those were not substantiated. Rep. Norman that is unfair for whoever brings that up to you to even make that kind of claim. Thank you for what you are doing. I have seen people break down in tears, so thank you. I yield the balance of my time to mr. Owen. I thank the gentleman. A couple quick questions. We heard about empathy today. My colleague discussed the individual that set up to 4000 people, children or migrants have been saved by Border Patrol, yes, in this fiscal year . Great empathy . Who wasfor jared vargas murdered in san antonio last summer by someone who was here illegally, chapter, policed, murdered . His mother, a friend of mine, no longer has her son. , thehy for the people individual murdered by allegedly two guatemalans in the news in iowa. Border patrol and ice are trying to prevent those who are here illegally, not from carrying out the kinds of crimes i described, is that correct . They are doing so without resources necessary. Thank you. Rep. Cummings now we will have to thank you for managing suspensions on the floor yesterday. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you for coming today. My thanks to ice and dhs and the hardworking men and women trying to fulfill their mission on a daily basis, difficult situation. Often in ways they were not trained for and i recognize that. I also agree with many of the members who are talking here, we need to get the rhetoric out of this, that you talked about in your Opening Statements, build the wall and have mexico favorite, that rhetoric, simply as a diversion from what we need to do. I think most americans recognize this is a multifaceted issue from beginning with the northern triangle countries and the fact dhe president has cut off ai to those countries creates economic consequences that causes greater levels of immigration. I applaud the Image Administration working with mexico to stop it at the border. We need to have strong borders and ports. Im willing to work with anyone to accomplish that. I also think all of us want to make sure we have the appropriate response for a hours tos great as make sure those who come here are treated with dignity and safety. I want to discuss the key finding in the staff report. According to the dhs data, even after separated children reunited, hundreds continued to be detained weeks or months, in socalled family detention. 380 children spent time in family detention, many past the legal limit, some in detention for up to five months. Under the Obama Administration there was a successful alternative for families seeking asylum that did not have longterm detention, but President Trump canceled. It was the family Management Program. It had a 99 success rate, costing taxpayers 36 per day versus 319 per day to keep them locked up in detention. You said the program wasnt successful. I would like to understand why and if you could elaborate briefly on that sec. Mcaleenan . Thank you for your comment. The program wasnt successful because it is not the only measure of success, appearance three an initial hearing, that is great. Rate and ane initial hearing, that is great. If a final order of removal is issued and actual result effectuated from that. Rep. Rouda 99 of those release families represented by an attorney attended all Immigration Court hearings, and the data is from the department of justice. Are you disputing that, or are they wrong . Sec. Mcaleenan i am saying we have 150 orders of final removal and none of those families have shown up. If they are not detained, there is a difficult chance to effectuate the final order of removal. It is an ice officer going into a community to find the family. Rep. Rouda so you say the justice departments data is wrong. Sec. Mcaleenan it is incomplete. It results in actual repatriations or finding somebody has a right to asylum or Immigration Rights to stay. Rep. Rouda who made that decision to cancel . Sec. Mcaleenan i dont know. I was with u. S. Customs and Border Protection. We are looking on how to redesign the programs that can be effective throughout the entire process. Rep. Rouda you have no idea if there were any conversations, memorandums or other things . How it might be used as a determine for people coming to the southern order . Sec. Mcaleenan i dont. Rep. Rouda i would like to ask you, one of the challenges we have had is having enough people to administer needed services in Order Protection as well as addressing the needs of those who have made it to the southern border. As of march, there was 2000 open positions. Is that correct . Sec. Mcaleenan interim support of patrol levels, yes. We were down to in terms of Border Patrol levels, yes. We are aggressively pursuing hiring. Rep. Rouda we have pursued funding, but there was on already existing backlog of over 2000 positions that havent and filled. Help us understand why we need more people, and arguably we do when we have not fulfilled 2000 vacancies . Per mcaleenan supplemental supplemental funding doesnt provide for there is some seller refunded but we have improved hiring over the supplemental funding. We will do so again this year despite the shutdown, despite the politicize edition of their ofsion politicization their mission. The funding we are getting is applied into facilities, transportation and contracts to augment ability to care for people in our custody now and get Law Enforcement agents doing duties on the border. Rep. Rouda thank you. Rep. Cummings thank you. Mr. Meadows. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for your testimony, secretary. Today i have seen some of my ofleagues on the other side this particular room actually come together in a way that i have not seen in previous hearings. Thank you for being straightforward, giving us the facts. One of the facts i found out that was troubling to me is how there are actually cards and directions that are given to people trying to come into our country to actually tell them how to use children to circumvent our laws. Is that correct . Sec. Mcaleenan we have seen all manner of smuggling organizations communicating to potential customers and to those crossing the border, how to bring in a child with them to stay in the u. S. Would you say there is a coordinated effort among some south of the border to exploit children to circumvent u. S. Laws . Sec. Mcaleenan absolutely. I have a document for love individual cases identified by summary every single says something to this effect. Subject said he made the attempt because he heard anyone traveling in the u. S. With a child will be released. Rep. Meadows i looked at some of those documents because it bothers me. I saw the cost of purchasing a child. 160, 84,ing about 250. When you can buy a child to use them, they become the only traffic but has over and over again. He found some children are recycled in the process in the process . Absolutely. An i highlighted in 2017 vulnerabilities in the Legal Framework for incentivizing smugglers and families to put at risk. The recycling is maybe the worst manifestations and we have three ongoing cases ice is managing where a small group of children five to eight in each case have been used by dozens of different adults across the border seeking relief. Rep. Meadows let me ask you a question because mr. Roy brought it up, mr. Jordan and even ms. Spears. If we were to appropriate money and allow you to keep Families Together when they come across, and one of the things it was a brother and sister i believe mrs. Spears was talking about, but if we appropriate enough money to mexico keep family units together, we address florez to allow them to stay there, would that help solve the problem where this trafficking of kids is not necessarily eliminated that reduced . Sec. Mcaleenan that single change would make the biggest possible impact not only on the flow but protecting children. Rep. Meadows i want to make sure i am how many billions of dollars when you need to build the facility to keep kids safe . Sec. Mcaleenan it was in the hundreds of millions range. You are saying it is not even billions of dollars . Sec. Mcaleenan we would find a response if people are not successful, you are actually getting a decision resulting in repatriation for the vast majority. Others would not try to come. We dont have to change asylum laws or anything about sanctuary cities, we can make kids safe if we address floras and give you less than 1 billion, keep Families Together and keep kids from being trafficked . Sec. Mcaleenan in an appropriate setting. Me say this, let mr. Chairman. You know this matters to me because i joined you on the letter over a year ago. Still out there. I have other recommendations because we want to make sure we are seeing this and that we provide oversight. It is time for us to come together and lets do it in the next 7 days group i heal the balance of my time to the Ranking Member. I saw he had a comment. Mr. Sherman, you have had 13 minutes. The rest of us have had five. Rep. Cummings i will give you a minute. I think the gentleman from North Carolina is right on target. Immediatediate, results, immediate better care and safety for these kids. Mr. Secretary, when was the last time you were at the border . Sec. Mcaleenan yesterday. You know exactly what is going on. You have the most recent knowledge. More experience than anyone in this room. Mr. Norman asked you about some conditions andut your response was they were unsubstantiated. Does mean not one Single Person you talked with who works in your agency could confirm some of the things that have been said like kids dont have toothbrushes, dragging out of toilets, all these other statements, not one person could confirm . Sec. Mcaleenan in terms of toothbrushes, it is accurate. Drinking out of toilets, that is accurate. Rep. Jordan totally absent itd. Unsubstantiated. Rep. Cummings time is expired. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The Nonprofit Law Firm americans for immigrant justice has conducted numerous interviews with kids who have been processed through the border. There are children, multiple children who have reported to aij that they were punished for no reason, not punishment but abuse. , i want yesaleenan or no answers because these are simple questions. Bys reported being forced cbp officers to kneel on concrete floors for extended time . Are they permitted to do this . Sec. Mcaleenan no. Rep. Wassermanschultz kids standing in very cold rooms, are the officers permitted to do this . Sec. Mcaleenan of course not. Officersermanschultz kicking them awake while they are lying on the floor trying to sleep . Are the officers permitted to prevent children . Sec. Mcaleenan no, and any allegation rep. Wassermanschultz yes or no will surprise will suffice. Teenage mothers unable to breastfeed their kids or the officer is permitted to withhold food and water . Sec. Mcaleenan not from anyone. Rep. Wassermanschultz a majority of kids said officers treat them like animals, color dirty andlling them never should have come here. Are they being trained to call them officers and 30 animals and dirty . Sec. Mcaleenan verbal abuse will be investigated rep. Wassermanschultz are they being sec. Mcaleenan of course not. Rep. Wassermanschultz we are hearing reports directed from child after child after child. These are not one off accusations. These are consistent, broadbased accusations from the majority of children that aij lawyers are interviewing. That is a systemic problem. Culture ofolerated abuse. Yes or no question, and the answer to this question, will you commit today to immediately order an investigation into these allegations of abuse of migrant youth . There are too many reports i am sorry but doing a here and rather these reviews today, you can say unsubstantiated, unless you have done a covering of the investigation, you cant unequivocally say that. Will you make the commitment to do this . Any specificn allegation we can begin it will be followed through on and investigated. Rep. Wassermanschultz there are lots of specific allegations , and i am asking you because we have a pile of them. Will you commit to order an investigation into these allegations of abuse of migrant youth . Sec. Mcaleenan any specific rep. Wassermanschultz if i give you specific allegations, you will commit to it . Sec. Mcaleenan it is correct and we do this routinely and build with advocacy rep. Wassermanschultz reclaiming my time. We will make sure we can sec. Mcaleenan i can give you more context. Rep. Wassermanschultz i have another question. A 16yearold boy was reunited with his family. He has lived here since he was nine months old but was taken from family members at a traffic. And sent to the Homestead Detention Center as unaccompanied minor. He went without a shower and toothbrush while detained for five days. His mom didnt know where he was. His mom was in the u. S. Two hours away when he was apprehended. You agree this is a violation of the definition of unaccompanied minor . Sec. Mcaleenan i would have to see the details. Rep. Wassermanschultz you know the details. It was in the newspaper. It is tiresome every time you are asked a detailed you did this in the appropriations subcommittee, you never seem to be able to answer or bring answers to detailed questions when you are questioned. Sec. Mcaleenan we followed up with a briefing for you rep. Wassermanschultz that was unacceptable. You dont even know anything about the case i am talking about. Sec. Mcaleenan i will not comment on specific cases. Rep. Wassermanschultz how many children have been apprehended in the interior of the United States who dont meet the statutory definition of a you a seat and placed of a uac . Sec. Mcaleenan not confirming any mistakes rep. Wassermanschultz there are. Sec. Mcaleenan i will be happy to look at an individual case you would refer. No, iassermanschultz want an answer. I want you to look in to how many children have been detained by your your agencies who dont meet the statutory definition of unaccompanied minor and have been house with true unaccompanied minors grade i want an answer to that question and the number. Sec. Mcaleenan are you suggesting an unaccompanied child with a parent somewhere in the u. S. Is not unaccompanied . Rep. Wassermanschultz yes, and i will read you the definition because it says, as used in the section of placement, in either a who has no lawful immigration status in the u. S. , has not obtained 18 years of age and there is no parent or legal guardian in the u. S. , or no guardian in the u. S. Is available to provide care and physical custody. Someone nine months old whose mother is two hours away doesnt meet the statutory definition of ua c, wouldnt you acknowledge that . Sec. Mcaleenan i would have to look at the details of that case. The suggestion any parent in the u. S. , being [speaking simultaneously] rep. Wassermanschultz i would like a commitment from you, that you will get us the number of children you have detained that dont meet sec. Mcaleenan i will follow up. Mr. Secretary, i got a whole list of cases and incidents, and one of the things you would look into it and if there were such cases, not trying to put words in your in to that you would look them. I am curious, are there such investigations going on now . Sec. Mcaleenan yes. We ran through the office of when i wastal the acting commissioner, direct relationships with advocacy groups bringing forward allegations so they could be referred. Those are being followed up on for professional responsibility. We closed out dozens of investigations for it many were unsubstantiated but some resulted in discipline of officers and agents who had not handled cases properly. This is an ongoing effort and we want to make sure we are holding ourselves accountable to the highest standards of the legal requirements and standards of conduct. If we get specific cases, we will follow up, a connection we built when i was at sea to be cbp. Specific allegations will be followed up on, that is our responsibility. Rep. Cummings thank you. Thank you for being here today. It is unfortunate it is a fly out day. You can see a lot of congressmen are missing your fine testimony. I would love it if sometime in the future to have you come here again, because five minutes is not enough to ask the questions we have an too many people are not here. I have been at the border twice myself. You guys are doing intermittent job. I could not help but be impressed by the professionalism your staff showed and the high morale despite some people saying there was not a crisis at the border. Your people have done all they can to educate the public there was crisis. One of the things that intrigues me is sometimes children are coming here, but people are not their parents. I compare it to have weak treat children in american society. One parent tries to grab the child away from other parents, we have all sorts of hoopla. Like an uncle grabbing a child away when the parents are far away. Could you elaborate on the concern of children being here who somebody purports to say is their parents but turns out isnt a parent or relative. Is this a concern . Sec. Mcaleenan it is for the child, but it is also a legal requirement under the trafficking and victims authorization act. That is an essential inquiry our agents are making at the border to try to determine the adult crossing, reporting to have a child with them is the actual parent or guardian. We are finding in too many cases it is not the case. Rep. Grothman how do you find out . Sec. Mcaleenan when the Border Agents have the time to do good interviews and questioning, often determine either through the answers, presentation of the documents that there might be fraudulent birth certificates involved or the behavior of the child looking uncomfortable with that adult, we have expanded the practice with 400 special agents alongside doing more indepth interviews, they have done 2500 so far and found out 60 of the cases, they were presenting a fraudulent family. To the cartels do cartels do do the anything to encourage the . Sec. Mcaleenan they have been active in advertising literally on facebook and in Central America, if you bring a child, you will be released in the u. S. , and there is a whole fake document operation and really in all three countries we have inntified 900 fake documents the first eight weeks of Homeland Security investigations. Rep. Grothman when children come here, are they purchase or kidnapped . Sec. Mcaleenan we have seen all of the above. For bridges, rental, delivery to the u. S. , and outright Human Trafficking. Rep. Grothman you said sometimes you do dna testing. Sec. Mcaleenan we started a pilot. In the first few weeks of my tenure we did 109 tests at the border, 15 return rate on either people admitting it is not my child, 51yearold who bought a sixmonthold for 80 in guatemala. It is a real concern. We want to expand our testing coverage with the new Rapid Technology coming out. Rep. Grothman one other concern which is difficult for you to worry about but i was concerned about it when i heard testimony, previous testimony in america, we go through a great deal to make sure that something doesnt happen to a child, if one parent would object. That if somebody shows up, even if it is their child, do we know if the other parent is there, whether that parent is agreeing to allow the agreeing to allow the child be bought in the United States or if a child shows up and is eventually given to somebody who agreeing to allow e child be bought in the United States or if a child shows up and is eventually given to somebody who purports to be the and or uncle, do we have any legal way of knowing this is right, or for all we know, we may have a situation in which one parent is absconding without the other parents knowing . Sec. Mcaleenan we do have concerns of that happening under our heightened when we have a unaccompanied child coming to the border, had a smuggler paid by apparent in the United States. I dont think most people realize most of these children are being released to parents or relatives in the u. S. Also here unlawfully, who may not have permission to work in the u. S. , and yet they are being released to sponsors in the u. S. Under the operation of law and restrictions being placed by congress in the current appropriations and supplemental. Rep. Grothman and the default is to allow them in the country even though a parent somewhere else might want the child to stay with them . Sec. Mcaleenan we have had investors from all three countries say those governments should have some say in what happens to the unaccompanied child. Rep. Grothman absolutely. If they ignore the wishes of the courts in Central America, that is appalling. I would like to thank you for being here again. I intend to go back to the border, to go back to el paso in a couple of weeks and talk to your folks again and encourage my colleagues to go down to the border and see what a fine job you are doing despite being underfunded by congress. Sec. Mcaleenan dramatic improvement in el paso from 5000 in custody to 500 today. Rep. Cummings ms. Hill. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I completely rewrote my question because we need to acknowledge across the board this is hard. This is a hard thing to be tackling. It is something americans cant agree on and we as policymakers cant agree on and in the meantime i dont believe that anyone looks at the pictures in cages and feels good about it. I do not think anybody looks at those pictures and feels proud to be an american. I am guessing you dont either. Issue for emotional everyone. The more we grandstand, the fewer options we have. Border Patrol Agency should provide the function of guarding the door but they should not be the ones carrying for kids. If someone comes to my house bleeding, i will not be the one who gives the most gives them stitches. Once we do know that people are not trying to rob us, they can be treated and should be treated with the dignity and grace of the United States of america. Lets be real. It is not the Border Patrol agents who should be doing the job. I think you know that we are in this reality of a severely divided government. Our democracy is a simple reflection of the will of the people. There are people in this room who think we should abolish Law Enforcement at the border. There are people who think we should keep our doors closed to everyone. The vast majority of americans are somewhere in between and we are trying to figure out that is something you probably struggle with. Needo we greet a family in at our door . How do we make sure the kids are not being abused from people seeking to take advantage . Cant i do not i do want ever to talk about how we can make sure. We are not going to put more when into detention beds we continue to see the images that make us sick to be americans. Knowing reality is not what you would want to be in terms of what is going to happen, what can we do that is somewhere that is going to get fewer kids to be in those situations, make an impact at the border and is just acknowledging the simple reality of what we can actually pass here and now with the kind of divided government that we have . Sec. Mcaleenan i do not to accept that the better system that we had before, having families cap together for 40 or 50 kept together for 40 or 50 days with education, recreation, somethingre is not that congress could consider in this environment. Is there a way we can learn more about this campus setting . Is this something we could begin to propose to people . I dont think that people understand that there could be a difference between what we have been seeing. These are the images stuck in peoples minds. If you are describing Something Different listen, it does not sound crazy but it is not what people think is really going to happen. Sec. Mcaleenan i would invite you to visit one of our Family Residential centers. There could be a dialogue of how to do this better, and there could be dialogue for improving the standards that exist there. If we could have funding to do so. What we are not seeing successful results when anyone is released from custody but for families especially for families. They are less likely to show up for hearings. They are less likely to respond to a final order of removal. Being able to address that at the border is a much more solution than what we are doing now. If we are doing that at the border, and i realize money has to be a huge part of the solution, if we are doing that at the border, do you think there needs to be involvement of other agencies . I think Case Management needs to be part of it. If we dont come to some kind of place extending the time of the floris settlement i think there could be a meaningful discussion. Do you think is the next step to make sure we have that meaningful discussion . Sec. Mcaleenan the department of Homeland Security has provided Technical Assistance to congress and the way they would like to structure that. There is a discussion going on in the Senate Judiciary committee. I would be willing to work with any member who wants to have this dialogue. Thank you. [indiscernible] i actually degree. I actually agree. We have to also be able to educate people on how things work, how the world works. Particularly in the areas of where these people are coming from. We know this because there are many who think that just being orm el salvador, guatemala honduras, they should automatically be approved for asylum. Honduras is an incredibly violent country. It has one of the most corrupt governments in the entire world. Guatemala is controlled by organizations,al and their criminal Justice System is flat out inept. In el salvador, 92 of the crimes go unpunished. We are talking about, i am assuming when you have somebody come to the border and you are doing this, you do not call the clerk of court in el salvador and do a criminal history check. Is that correct . That is not the end of the inquiry. Sec. Mcaleenan we have a relationship with the National Police in el salvador and we do share information. Convictions, how many of the cartels are directly connected to the governments in those countries . Sec. Mcaleenan i do not to cast brought aspersions on the governments or connections to organized crime. The cartels are not president of the three countries. Made it is a little bit more complex than painting a broadbrush on all three governments. You do not treat it as a normal criminal justice inquiry . Use your allies. You use your allies. Sec. Mcaleenan we make judgments based on our direct interactions. Programs we get information from are supported by state department, International Narcotics and Law Enforcement bureau. That gives us greater comfort. Your confident in the intelligence gathering that you do in these scenarios . Sec. Mcaleenan in these scenarios, when we are trusting the information, it is because we bedded we bedded the process and we have a relationship we can verify. I will piggyback off the last question. I will not place it in you having to deal with the partisan nature of congress. What are three concrete steps congress can do right now to help the situation at the border . Traffickingan victims protection reauthorization act. We have offered a process. One of my first weeks as acting secretary, we offered a process. We would have the balance of being able to repatriate those children. Change to the credible fear standard as we assess asylum claims. To a more rational connection to the ultimo results ultimate results of an immigration judge. Gentleman for yielding. I think the gentleman for yielding. Lets hope they can Work Together and we can change the floras decision. If you dont, nobody is going to show up, right . 1500, right . Sec. Mcaleenan that was the final range of removal. None of those who have gotten the final order had shown up for their removal. If we dont change it, and you have to release families, they will never share of for their day in court. Show up not going to unless we can deal with this decision. Sec. Mcaleenan it puts ice in the decision in the position to have to go into the to effectuate the orders. Everybody gets their due process and a decision can be made. They Stay Together the entire time. They do not want to change that . Thank you very much. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to focus on some basic facts and i hope youll answer the questions, not as a political appointee but in the spirit of when you are at the university of chicago. When the zerotolerance policy was being planned, at any point did anyone in the room ask, how will the parents and children come together afterward . Not ieenan it was was not in every room where every conversation was had. You are probably in the room where the decisions were being made. Sec. Mcaleenan on april 19, between the attorney generals decision about expanding to all men of a adults crossing amenable adults crossing the border, cdp made changes to its system to identify better the relationship between the adult and child crossing the border. That conversation was had and we did make modifications to address it. You recommended, you had a process in place of how these kids would be reunited . Sec. Mcaleenan on how we would capture the data so they could be later in the process. The belief was that adults would be prosecuted, complete their immigration proceedings. Hhs would have the child at the time. What went wrong . Why were they not being able to be reunited . Sec. Mcaleenan if you go back and look at the filings, very early in this process before these different parts have concluded, hhs sponsorship immigratione ice in Court Process for the adults, in a matter of weeks, based on the , put all together in spreadsheets and works manually by a team. Childs time, every single has had their parent identified and has either been reunited or if there is a decision they cannot be for Child Welfare issues. There is not a single child that has not been reunited or has not been or their parents have not been identified . Sec. Mcaleenan they have identified apparent in every case and they have taken the appropriate action as specified in the Court Filings. May i ask you this . In self reflective moments, are you proud of how this whole situation has happened . Do you have some regrets . I have answer the question in many times. If i could go back and redo it, i would. Have about beyond the program . In terms of how we are treating the kids. I know you are blaming congress. You reflect, you had a distinguished career before coming into government service, when you look at your tenure, where do you think you have fallen short . Sec. Mcaleenan that is a big question. It has been a couple of decades. I think we have accomplished a lot in the timeframe. I would like to go back to 2014 court change the the rule after we made the difficult decision. Jeh johnson made a difficult familyn to create retention centers. It stopped the crisis. There was a cap when the a gap when the flow was down. We let the decision stand. Crisis arounder the election of 2016. These borderaid facilities are not adequate for children to be there. You have testified before. You have been with the Department Since 2014. Youre testifying that you anticipated we could have a surge again. Did anyone did you ever raise that maybe we should retrofit some of these buildings or we should design these buildings in a way that would be hospitable for kids . Sec. Mcaleenan when the system works properly, when health and Human Services have adequate resources, the time that children spend at the border is very short. That part that works pretty well. Rebuild the entire border infrastructure is challenging. Two years ago, el paso was one of the lowest centers. Fisher, they have had a 20 this year, they have had a 25 full increase. 25fold increase. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming today and for your testimony. Last week, i talked and shared from my perspective as an emergency medicine physician peoplerying to get perspective about what has happened at the border. I think repeating the analogy will be helpful. Imagine you are working in an Emergency Department and a Natural Disaster occurs. Maybe something as bad as 9 11. There are thousands of patients now rushing into the Emergency Department. The er is completely overwhelmed. There patients in the hallways being treated. Doctors are running from place to place. It is not the physicians fault that that scenario has come upon them. It is not the nurses fault aired that is the kind of crisis that you are experiencing at the border. One that no one could anticipate and the systems are completely overwhelmed. Would you agree with that statement . Sec. Mcaleenan i think that is an apt analogy. They are faced with a crisis that happened that they need to respond to with the resources they have on hand and sometimes that can be challenging. It can be messy. It is something they are doing with heart and soul. Can appreciate that and i empathize significantly because i have delivered a baby in a parking lot because we were so overwhelmed. You do what you have to do when you are overwhelmed and that is where you are. I want to talk about children. In emergency medicine, we teach our doctors to be very cautious because a child can be sick and not look sick. They tend to fall off of a cliff. They look great, vital signs are fantastic, and then they crash very fast. Expecting people who are not ,rained in emergency medicine which took four years of undergrad, four years of graduate school and three years of residency, expecting those individuals to recognize a child about to crash is inappropriate and unfair. By the way, when the physician codes that patient and they die teamy, that dr. Or nursing has tried really hard, it is not their fault either. They are doing the best they can. Sec. Mcaleenan both of those comments resonate for us. Maybe if i could amend my answer. I think it would have been better to have more medical capability available in our border stations for our agents access. Us bash it is interesting. If you increase the radius of the pipe, it exponentially increases the flow through the pipe. Let me ask you about these you do nott folks have the beds for. If you had those beds, how would you ship resources and wouldnt give you better access elsewhere . And would it give you better access elsewhere . Sec. Mcaleenan we requested thousands more beds than we got. We requested 200 million additional beds. We did not get any of that funding. If you had that diameter expansion, you would be able to have more capacity and be able to shift resources to take care of those families and resources. Families and children. I would like to give my time to the Ranking Member. Thank you. It would be better for them, people seeking Refugee Status, to be able to apply in country. Do you know who said that . Sec. Mcaleenan other than me and some other members of the administration president obama. President obama made the statement and that seems to me the exact same thing senator graham is proposing in his legislation. That could be another thing we could do to deal with the situation. Thank you so much. I know it is really frustrating. President obama is not the president anymore. I think we need to get over it and move on. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for coming. You are serving your agents by being here. And telling the truth as much as us. Can, provide more to actual information is going to help create the sense of urgency to help the children and families at the border. Mr. Secretary, there has been a lot of discussion about rhetoric. Dismissing,c, discrediting many of my colleagues, including congresswoman escobar. What we saw at the border. June 28, you are asked about allegations of shocking conditions at clint. Unsubstantiated allegations regarding a single patrol facility created a sensation. Dismissing, i think, a report that came out. In may of 2019, the independent Inspector General issued a report on a Border Patrol facility in el paso. Were you aware of that report before you of the poor conditions they talked about, the overcrowding, many were wearing soiled clothing, were you aware of that report before you said it was unsubstantiated . Sec. Mcaleenan i was offered the opportunity to explain earlier in the year. When you say that, it is misleading to the american people. The overcrowding in our facilities you hear people saying that much of what we are saying is rhetoric. Appreciate you trying to urge us and trying to identify there has been a crisis. Sec. Mcaleenan no american should be comfortable with children in a Police Station for days on end. Word it that contradicts. He cautious in the terms that you use be cautious in the terms that you use. It does mislead the american people. Sec. Mcaleenan i was talking about the monitors comments. That they did not have water, did not have access to showers. Loras was a case because it talks about the maximum you can keep a child is 20 days. It talks about things you have to have, really important like food and drinking water. Appropriate food and drink and water. Adequate temperature control. Ventilation. Separation from unrelated adults, whenever possible. It talks about toilets and sinks. It really goes into specifics. What is wrong with floras . Sec. Mcaleenan just a single provision. You want to keep kids longer. From thisn very clear administration that you want to keep kids longer. Sec. Mcaleenan we want to keep Families Together. Daysnnot be done in 20 with due process. Tell people you want to keep the kids longer. Sec. Mcaleenan we want to keep very high standards. We need to be able to finish immigration proceedings before people are released. I want to go through something else. It is important to what i have witnessed. These are things that cbd agents told me. Stop throwing money at this. Another said, we were not trained for this. He said, i am not a social worker or medical care worker. This is the most important one. The separation policy is not working. What do you say to that . Sec. Mcaleenan money is needed to mitigate the crisis. I agree. We should change the authorizing law so we would not have the crisis in the first place. Throwing money at it will continue not to manage it. We are tryingg to have people on contract in our facilities that have the background and can identify Mental Health trauma and identify kids who are suicidal. We put that in place and last july. In last july. My third question was about the separation policy. Sec. Mcaleenan there is a court order and an executive order that define the conditions for the welfare of the child. Mr. Chairman, if i could have more time at the end, i would like to ask for clarification. Thank you so much. Thank you to secretary for offering your testimony. Under this subpoenas we issued to dhs, your office has produced to this Committee Data showing child separations skyrocketed after your zero pollards zerotolerance policy went into effect. Or than 2000 children were separated more than 2000 children were separated from their parents in those two months. Aroundng these decisions family separations, did you all consider the emotional and mental impacts on officers enforcing them to take children away from their mothers and fathers . Sec. Mcaleenan we absolutely consider the wellbeing of our professionals, who are strained. Thank you. Reclaiming my time do you consider thed you dehumanizing effect on the officers, specifically in child separation and forcing them to take children away from their parents . Sec. Mcaleenan enforcing the law often has emotional impacts for everybody involved. That is something we want to provide resilience services, Mental Health support for anyone who needs it. Do you agree with the federal courtss decision that halted your child separation policy . Sec. Mcaleenan i agree with the president s executive order. We follow the federal court order. Been reports that President Trump and Stephen Miller wanted to restart separations the president said zerotolerance prosecution of adults is not on the table at this time. Reportsre saying the are incorrect saying the president wanted to restart child separation . Sec. Mcaleenan i am referring to the president s public statements. Privately. In your experience, the answer is no. Sec. Mcaleenan i am not going to speak about conversations with the president that i have personally had. I am not aware of other deliberations. Mr. Secretary, there were reports that the president offered you a pardon for closing the border to asylumseekers. Report,g to a cnn an official told President Trump he would grant you a pardon if you were sent to jail for having Border Agents block asylumseekers from entering the u. S. Is that correct . Sec. Mcaleenan i have never been asked to do anything unlawful by the president or anyone else, nor would i. Are you aware of the propublic report indicating that there were 10,000 potential officersnd former cdp in violently racist and sexist Facebook Group . Did you see any of the reports in the debt did you see any of the posts in the reports . Planningee the post see the did you circulatingficers Photoshopped Images of my violent rape . Are those officers on the job today and responsible for the safety of Migrant Women and children . Sec. Mcaleenan there is an aggressive investigation. These posts do not meet our standards of conduct. Individualsady put on admin strata duty. Administrative duty. Do you think the policy of child separation could have contributed to the dehumanizing culture that contributes and spills over into other areas of conduct . Sec. Mcaleenan we do not have a dehumanizing culture. We are committed to everybodys everyones welfare. Havingdo not think that 10,000 officers in a violent memst group, sharing rape of members of congress points to any concerns of a dehumanized culture . Sec. Mcaleenan i do not think thes fair to apply them to entire group. How did 10,000 members join this group, including, i chief . , the head of cdp how were they in this Facebook Group without anyone in leadership knowing . Sec. Mcaleenan this is the subject of an ongoing investigation. Thank you very much. With these entries on social media that we just talked about, do you think people who make those kinds of statements, which reflect what they are feeling, should be on the force . I am just curious. Sec. Mcaleenan it depends on the individual statement and the individual standard violated. That is something that this investigation is looking at. I ask for unanimous consent for congresswoman escobar to participate. For the you so much opportunity to be seated with committee. I am thankful for your work and your commitment to creating a better government, a government we can be proud of. Thank you for being here, mr. Secretary. I have been sitting through some of your testimony, right behind you. Exercise, on the House Judiciary Committee, this plays out as well. It is very frustrating when i how quicktalk about and easy the solutions can be when it is not that we do not want solutions, it is that we disagree on the end result. Some in congress would like to see more hard lined policies that essentially shuts our front door and ensures this becomes someone elses problem. Others would like to truly address the challenge we face as a country and as a hemisphere in holistic, compassionate way. We have talked a lot about the the problems that have arisen and there is absolutely no doubt that the increasing number of families arriving on our front door have caused a challenge. They have caused a challenge for Law Enforcement agents, many of whom i respect. There are some very bad ones who need to be rooted out. The good ones have told me they are feeling more and more despondent because there are no consequences. There is no accountability for the bad ones. I am worried about them. I worry about my community, which has shoulder the responsibility of being the good servants in a very dark time. I worry, of course, for the migrants who have been dehumanized and who are looked at as a problem to be fixed instead of people to be helped. This, ande so much of i had the privilege to testify in front of this Committee Last week, so much of it comes down to a choice and how we choose to approach a challenge. I would tell you that el paso, texas, the community i am so privileged to represent, has chosen to respond in a way where we create humanitarian standards for migrants as soon as they are released from custody. We literally, as a community, wrap our arms around people in need. We have a fraction, a minuscule fraction, of the Resources Available to the federal government and we have done far better. Choice is matter of one that is pretty transparent will we have chosen to separate children, when we have chosen to block entry at our ports of entry for legal asylumseekers. Sendwe have chosen to legal asylumseekers back into mexico. I apologize for the long preamble but i felt like i needed to get that off my chest. I have a couple of questions for you. I shared with you, the day you were sworn in, that i thought you had a problem in ice and that one of the problems with an ice is that they are detaining people who could easily be paroled. After nearly being held in detention for nearly a year, they decided to go on a hunger strike, had tubes forced down their nose. They were so depressed and they could have been paroled. Ultimately, to her paroled and seven were two were paroled and seven were deported. Dive ito do a deep asked you to do a deep dive. Sec. Mcaleenan that deep dive is ongoing. I will be getting back to you on the findings. I have 13 seconds. I will ask you if you will provide my office with an accounting of all ice facilities for the last six months, the number of vacancies at each facility, the number of beds lastd every day for the six months. We keep hearing that there are no beds, that we are out of beds, and interestingly, the president announced interior raids. Single adults are held in deplorable conditions while i suspect there are lots of empty ice beds waiting for interior enforcement. Would you get that to my office . Sec. Mcaleenan we will talk through an oversight request, absolutely. You nt to thank all of i know this is a getaway day but this is an urgent matter. Thank you for being here. We are getting ready to shut down and we will now hear from our Ranking Member. Mr. Secretary, do you want to change floras so you can keep kids longer . Sec. Mcaleenan we want to complete an immigration proceeding and get a result as people arrived at the border so we can have a system with integrity. You want to keep Families Together until you can give them the due process which are law entitles them to receive and make a final determination, right . That seems like common sense to me. It was common sense for the previous administration. When this administration wants to do it, somehow, we cannot go there because of this floras decision. I think you have made this clear. If you change that, it has Immediate Impact and keeps Families Together and gives these families their due process. A judge can make a final decision and would make everything better for everyone concerned. For the congress, agency, and the people who made this long trek and came here to this country. That is all you want to have happen. We have heard from the other side that they are not going to do it. We aree part willing to work with anyone to fix that one thing, which would be the immediate thing we could do to help with the situation. Republicans are ready, you are ready. Guess is that the families that little girl and her parents, they are ready for that. They wont do it. Happens from this committee, lets fix that. Lets fix that and stop all the stuff we have heard about and do what you know with your 20 Years Experience what you know has to happen. I hope theyst change their mind and i hope they will work with us. Thank you for your service. Today. Being here mr. Secretary i will give you a minute and 30 seconds. Things, ithe key dont disagree that we have to fix the policy. Longer is myids issue. Working ney is not throwing money at this is not working. These share with me in 1980s, we had more people come to our borders, detention was rarely used. Can we look at those policies . I can share the information with you. I dont want to leave folks thinking that i would not want to support some sort of resolution to this that is humane. Timeves our agents more and more information on training. However, we should be very cautious when we say, lets just keep them longer. That is my issue. Toont want people mischaracterize floras. One of the key things about that case was we kept her longer and that was in humane in itself. That is one thing my colleague from the other side will not understand. Detaining people is inhumane and harmful. Mr. Chairman, what did you say . We leave them with the memory. You cannot keep them longer. That is not going to fix it. Thank you very much. I want to thank everybody this was a difficult conversation because we are dealing with difficult issues. I want to thank you, secretary. We appreciate you being here. Atnow you had a hard stop 1 30 p. M. And now we are 2 40 p. M. G , i other day i said this want to make sure we concentrate in the meantime. Differ about what they have observed, but we do have the reports. Things, tobeen some be very frank with you, you seem with the in agreement igs. Sec. Mcaleenan i accept the conclusions of the ig reports. I want us to try to address the overcrowding. I am convinced that a lot of the policies, the zerotolerance policy has led to what is going on. Let me be very clear, i get folks onpeople saying our side of the aisle beat up on the Border Patrol and are beating up on others. Of inis nobody i know this congress that fights harder for federal employees. Unnoticedy are often and unappreciated. I get that. At the same time, i want us to keep in mind that we are dealing with children in many instances. We are dealing with people who are trying to simply live a better life. Trying to live a better life. When i think about the idea, the policy that says, i got over the ladder and now i am going to pull up the ladder , that is not the america i know. That is not the america i want for my children and for generations. Most significantly, i think we need to keep in mind what i will say over and over again until i the deeds you do to back to hauntcome us and it will definitely haunt them. Childreno treat these and ask them would we have that for our own . They are human beings and that same little child may be like the person who saves my life at Johns Hopkins hospital. Most of the people that saved my were firstf of them generation. That is the beauty of america. With that, i would like to thank our witness for testifying today. Without objection, all members will have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witness and you must submit them to the chair, which will be forwarded to the witness for his response. I would say to you, mr. Secretary, you made a lot of commitments here today. We want to follow up and we are going to follow up on all of them. Time is of the essence. Respond toyou please those inquiries as rapidly as possible. Ladies and gentlemen, we are adjourned. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] washington journal, live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up friday morning, the Concord Coalition to talk about the debate over federal spending and the rising debt limit. Bilberry on the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon mission. Be sure to watch washington journal, live at 7 00 eastern friday morning. Join the discussion. Friday, a discussion about the current state of u. S. Saudi arabia relations and what to expect in the future. We will be live from capitol hill with the middle east policy capital policy council. Beautiful. This week marks the 50th anniversary of the apollo 11 moon landing. Nearly three quarters of americans watched footage of the moon landing. Friday at 8 00 eastern, watch the 1959 cbs footage of the apollo 11 mission, beginning with flight preparations. Lift off. We have lift off, 32 minutes past the hour. One small step for man. One giant leap for mankind. On saturday at 8 00, the landing and moonwalk. This is houston reading you loud and clear at on sunday morning at 1030 eastern, coverage of the apollo 11 returning to earth. I am the luckiest man in the world. I say this not only because i have the honor to be president but particularly because i have the privilege of speaking for so many. Watch the News Coverage of the historic apollo 11 mission on cspan and cspan. Org. Are first of two guests this morning. Yesterday the House Judiciary Committee advanced your bill, setting new standards for treatment for individuals and customs and Border Protection custody. What are those standards now . Now and how would your bill change those standards . Guest let me describe the situation at the border