Transcripts For CNNW Debate 20240627

he's boasting about the fact that he that he canceled roe v. wade. i think joining us >> thank you to our viewers. thanks very much for watching our special coverage of debate night in america continues right here, right now on cnn with anderson cooper and erin burnett good evening from cnn headquarters in atlanta. >> we're just two hours from now. history will be made joe biden and donald trump's squaring off on the stage. we are showing you in the earliest ever presidential debate, the first ever between the president and ex-president the first in which one of the candidates is also convicted felon awaiting three other criminal trials and so much sets this debate apart from others, including rules tailored just for this occasion in and agreed to by both candidates. >> but there are so many unknowns about what will happen tonight. anderson, can president biden overcome the difficulties that so many incumbent presidents have faced in their first debates, can donald trump do what his advisers have been urging him to do and stick to what they see as winning issues or will he repeated the nastiness of his first debate with biden? >> in 2020 2021. >> thing is clear, anderson, is it we're going to be getting answers to that. and very soon, what's also clear is just how high the stakes are tonight, how much it matters for the candidates themselves, for their chances and for many millions of voters to get a better sense of what the choice is really are in november in this election for what the united states of america will look like a year from now, it is a crucial night and i want to get straight to it with our mj. lee was new reporting on how the biden campaign is gearing up for tonight. so mj, what are you learning? >> well, aaron, it is not lost on the biden campaign. what a unique opportunity they have tonight for president biden to make a lasting impression to american voters and to cast himself as the better alternative to donald trump last week of preparations at camp david, we're obviously really all about up the 90 minutes that he is going to be spending on the debate stage. but we are learning tonight of another way in which the biden campaign is trying to capitalize on the fact that many americans will be tuning in. they are going to be airing three ads around the debate tonight. that were specifically chosen to really try to drive away at three of the core arguments he believed are going to be really politically salient heading into november the 1st ad is on reproductive rights, featuring a texas woman who said that she was denied medical attention after she suffered a miscarriage. and you'll remember as she specifically blames donald trump for what she went through the second ad features of michigan sheriff who denounces president trump's handling and actions around january 6, and then the final ad will be hitting trump's out record and his character. and this is the ad where they described donald trump as a convicted criminal who is only out for himself. aaron, this is just yet another example of the fact that the biden team believes that there for path to the presidency is all about presenting a binary choice. they want to reach voters who have not been tuned in much so far, this election cycle and who do not believe that november is going to be about joe biden versus donald trump. and i should also note biden advisers, we have been speaking to do believe that this is a potential actually going to be the most prepared a donald trump has ever been heading into a debate and that he could potentially be more disciplined and more on message than we have ever seen him and everybody be watching for that. mj. thank you let's go to cnn's kristen holmes, who's got new reporting from inside the trump camp. >> i understand you've got some new details on whether trump team has been focused on leading up to the debate particularly andrew serwer, the last 24 hours, they are looking at performance, the art of the performance, as well as visual. remember out as hard donald trump is a performer and he and many and his team believed that that's just as important as the substance of the debate his team on the ground here in atlanta has spent the last 24 bowers really honing in on every single detail i'm talking about the minutia, the steps it takes to get from behind the curtain to the podium, how far the podiums are part even the hype and where they are angled. one of the things that they were talking about was how the audio sounded from each podium to make sure that it was clear enough from the former president's podium, donald trump himself believes that these visuals like how he performs up on that stage, is going to impact how people view this. and so his team has really put in the effort to make sure that it is to his liking. he channeled trump himself is scheduled to do that candidate walk through at any time let me we'll see the layout, but one of the things to remind you, he often talks both privately and publicly about how he looks on stage, how he sounds on stage, what the crowd looked like, looking at him. this is something he cares deeply about and that's obvious as he steps on the stage. obviously this again, goes to all of the preparation that they have been doing on policy. they have been having formal conversations. but right now, that team here, they were looking at the visuals and optics ahead of the debate mission homes, thanks so much, aaron all right. >> anderson and i'm here with audie cornish, chris wallace, kaitlan collins, and kasie hunt. all of us here through the night so chris, we're now in minus two hours before they walk out. they're gonna walk out actually a little bit before 9:00. what what do they do here in these final moments? they are both here. they have both arrived. we know that we saw trump get in later there are obviously around 530 local time get off the plane what do they do in these final moments? >> well, if they're smart, they're basically left alone to think about it i suppose some of the canada at some of the candidates advisors might sit there and give them pepper drills, but it does font. you just want to collect yourself, figure out what are the main pain points. remind yourself, what are the main points that you want to make the holes you don't want to fall into. i can tell you one thing that the trump campaign has been talking about and thinking about is how he was when he walks out onto the stage, should he shake hands with joe biden or not? this is a real issue because one of the i want to project his strength versus weakness and they think physically donald trump looks stronger and walks better than joe biden with his somewhat halting gate. so i don't know what he's gonna do. i don't know what the big decision will be and it may well be the trump decides on the fly hi, as he walks out. but one of the thoughts is to shake hands and try to project strength versus bring up the handshake adi, this is actually very central. the gate is crucial because everyone's going to see that and so much of this is optics, but the handshake, we know the biden team has been thinking about that too, and whether he even wants to shake trump's hand. so is this something that literally in that moment, i think it'd be decided, you should think about all of this as a big reset, right? like jay-z says as loud, like let me re-introduce everybody, wake up. campaign is happening. this election is happening. these are the people in front of you. and if you haven't been tuning in, this is your chance. similarly for the candidates last time they did all this, it was during covid, the handshake thats why there wasn't are handing yeah, like so this is literally a reset moment. how do we do this? how should it look? what's the most effective way to deliver this information to voters and how they spent their day today, kaitlan, we know trump posted on social media joe biden's a threat to democracy, a threat to the survival and existence of our country itself. all caps sort of what you would expect. but that was what we heard. >> donald trump has always been a big fan of the i'm rubber your glue kind of retort anytime someone labels a critic, loves or criticism at him, he often returns it to them, but i think when you look at them on stage tonight, what's different than four years ago is that joe biden obviously has a presidential record. he had never been present before he was only able to scrutinize and attack donald trump's record as president. that will obviously be different tonight for donald trump, though, he is a criminal record for the i mean, he's never been on the debate stage since he was a convicted felon, since he had multiple, dozens of indictment and counts and charges against him. so there is just a completely different dynamic, even though we've all seen this movie for, we've all seen the two of these guys on stage before. they are the most recognized political figures, everyone knows their backgrounds and their records, but we've never seen them on stage with these dynamics before. so that's the thing to look for tonight is what's different now than it was four years ago and they've also tried to flip the script though casings your trump, trying to take the democracy point, but they are there seems like attempted that amine we'll see if that's what he tries to tonight. there's absolutely i mean, that's a tried and true trump tactic to duck something that's a weak point for him and claim, oh, actually the other guy is doing that. but when i think about what's really different between the last time we saw this happen when chris was in charge. and now i may have been a lot i was not very home i know. i mean, i've spent a lot of time actually watching that debate recently, but the level of personal animosity between these two men is just at a much higher level than it even was. then, i mean, let's be real joe biden, i don't think it's ever really liked donald trump. we know how donald trump has felt about joe biden over the years. but now you have a sitting president who sees across the stage from him a former president who tried to steal an election from him, right? and one of the main things i think we're gonna be looking for tonight is how donald trump handles january 6, in front of a crowd of millions that may be turning in, tuning into this election for the first time. they may not have seen his campaign rallies where he starts off with a solute to what he calls the january 6 hostages. so i do think that there are many, many layers tonight that to your, to your point, these are different people in different points in their careers, but there are also different in personal ways. as well as how they spent the de it i went through trump's social media posts, joe biden actually posted a video on his social media sort of highlighting certain points about trump. i want to just play that data hiring, dangerous threat to democracy, cannot in good conscience, endorse donald trump. we don't take an oath to a king or queen. would a tyrant or a dictator we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator those are the voices of former aides of trump. and only a few, only a few. and obviously there's many more, right? you could choose from, but that's another thing i'll be looking at tonight. how are these things framed differently? it's one thing for the president to bring up january 6. it's another thing for joe biden to talk about political violence and to use a word like that, there's going to be different ways that they talk about familiar issues that will give us a hint about what the next couple of months will be like in terms of their messaging the flip side of that is how donald trump handles. >> and i can tell you the plan that doesn't mean that the plan has got to laugh, but very much to get stuck into re-litigating 2020. not they get stuck into talking a lot about january 6. and if he does talk about pardoning, he's going to qualify it and cite the pardoning the non-violent offenders, but certainly not pardoning the violent offenders on that day. but they very much want to pivot off that and hi, in fact, enough about 20:20, even though he's done nothing but talk about it for four years enough about 20:20. let's talk about the future. let's talk about american people's problems. we'll see whether or not he aged able to stick to that plan. but that's that's what the idea is going in. >> i also think that first debate in that performance was seared into his mind because donald trump walked off that debate with you and he thought that he had crushed it. he thought he had done such a great job. and as it is often the case with donald trump, his perch perception is shaped by the coverage and what he sees after and what he hears from his advisers after. and obviously he interrupted president biden a lot during that debate and he's even admitted it. he did it this week in an interview with the washington ching-te an examiner that he interrupted too much during that debate. and so donald trump takes advice from a lot of other people. he doesn't always listen to it or actually observe it. i do think he remembers and as we have been playing at length this week, the clips from that debate, he's reminded of how often he interrupted and what that looked like. will see if you maintains it passes it's the first 20 minutes or the entire debate. >> well, i also wonder how much the reality of the rules and the way that this is being set up is going to affect how donald trump is able to do that. i mean, i think that the perception has shifted over the course the last couple of days too. i certainly have talked to a number of people who have suggested that perhaps it will help donald trump that in the event that he, he does have trouble biting his tongue, which we know that he sometimes does that he will be he will not be heard by a television audience because i think one of the things with this, this debate is gonna be very unusual, of course, because there's not going to be an audience in the room. there's going to be basically just the moderators, these people, the people that have to do the technical work to get it on the air. that's different from previous years. so it's just going to be the two of them centered like this, experiencing it in the room though, is not the same way that americans experience that on television. and it can be a mistake when you're in the room to take what you feel like happens there and extrapolate because you can miss things will come across one of the room and you having sat there here at that debate different feeling there versus what you when you watched it later no, i knew it was a disaster. >> i didn't i will say i actually think those question of the audience is overstated it is very intense in that little circle in my debate, they were ten feet apart in this debate, there eight feet apart. i mean, they could just there really were very, very close to each other trump has said that the audience matters. >> there's a little bit of living first, you got to be able to play to someone we were but they didn't play does someone and they were very much under orders not to the audience, to applaud. i'm telling you that having been on that stage age they it's the two candidates and the moderator. and that's really it. i do not think that lack of an audience is going to be a mature. >> we are all going to see that shortly and all of you, of course, are gonna be here. we're here together and i hope all of you will be sticking around and more and more joining as the hours go just ahead, we will be joined by trump surrogate, and new york republican congresswoman elise stefanik. that closer look at what the former president and president biden will see an experience in that room at their podiums, which will not be like anything, any candidate whose seat before sunday on the whole story. >> short battles in american waters, dive into the debate between conservations fisher, and sharp gutters store 40 with anderson cooper sunday at eight and don't miss discovery sharpening starting sunday, july 7. >> to me, harlem is all a home is also your body. last one. i asked myself why does it pilates exist in harlem so i started my own studio, get in a brick-and-mortar in new york is not easy chase thank has supported us from studio to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help and chase ink with that for me, earn up to 5% cash back home business essentials. but the chain inke business cash heart and chase for business make more of what's yours hi there. >> i'm an ad ever notice how some ads just speak to savvy advertisers place their ads where people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs. that's why they choose vi. it can make an impression if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute and measure your connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory, choose wisely choose, phi joe biden opened 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setup of the stage and studio first, anderson, which is obviously the important the candidates will be at the electrons. >> these electrons, as you can see, this is actually the electron were donald trump will be standing, they are eight feet apart said another way, not far apart at all. in previous debates, the electrons have been about 12 ish feet apart for a woman who's 54, that's three or four depths apart. so there's a physical proximity dynamic that will be at play tonight. donald trump will be screen left. joe biden will be screen right when they are here, they are allowed to take notes. ronnie, let's show them notepads, empty note pads and pens right here with the candidates are not allowed to do to bring prepared notes on to the stage with them. what you'll what they will be looking at right here, we see our awesome crew getting ready to go. what they will be looking at is not a studio audience only are moderators jake tapper dana bash, they will be the only people that they will see in this set. in this studio for the entirety of it, the only breaks in the action anderson during the 90 minute debate are going to be two commercial breaks. and during that time importantly, the candidates will not be allowed any contact with campaign staff and walks through how the core of the debate is structure the striker that is everything when you get to the core of it, which is questions answers, and the actual debate. this is how it goes. the moderators, dana and jake, they ask a question to the designated candidate when they ask the question that candidate gets two minutes to answer. other candidate then gets one minute, two respond, and candidate one, we will call them, then gets one minute for a rebuttal to that response during that time when the candidate is speaking that the designated candidates microphone will be on the candidate who is not designated to be speaking. their microphone will be off. and this is when the timing clocks really come in to play the designated candidate when they are speaking, when they get down to 15 seconds, you'll see these are their timing lights there on every camera around the studio when the light turns yellow, that indicates to the candidate speaking, they have 15 seconds left when they hit five seconds, it's starts flashing red and then when they are out of time, it's a solid red and that is when the mics switch, if you will, mics go on and vice versa. mic goes on, mic goes off. this is all designed to maximize the allotted time in this debate, to maximize the amount that the viewers, the voters everyone that is at home gets to hear from the candidates and learn more about their divergent positions and how to lead the country. anderson and i just want to point out both candidates and campaigns have agreed to these rules with me here, cnn political commentators have all political stripes. >> got jennings, kate bedingfield, david urban, van jones. so as far griffin and david axelrod also news nine and ghraieb, you, fill up and cnn chief national correspondent, john king. john, let me start off with you. what i mean, let's just talk about the state of the race between these two candidates. with this debate and look, it's a very close race when you look at the national polls that are less close race, if you go to the battleground states where donald trump has a clear your advantage, it's not a huge advantage, but it's a clear advantage. and this is all about the battleground that it is. you've got to get to 270 electoral votes, right? and so donald trump has a clear advantage right now. it's not very big. it's not overwhelming, but the question becomes, and this is my question to political pros get helped me more than this traditional rules, this race, given the structure, structure of the race, president with a 38% approval rating, two thirds of the country thinking we're on the wrong track east, the incumbent president, the economic anxiety in the country despite, i know the biden people, anyone watching the same weight numbers are great. people don't feel it this is at a point where traditionally you would say an incumbent president is either at or past the tipping point. it's like bending still with your bare hands now to get that approval rating above 42, 42, that's how an incumbent can win. if you look at the structure of this race historically, joe biden's in deep trouble in terms of how much he has to change in the 18.5 weeks he has left to do it but here's the history of the moment. normally with an incumbent presidents, i want four more years. and the other person says, we need change, we need new it's tunneled trump. it's donald trump. we've never been here, 134 years since the guy who lost the presidency runs against the guy who took the job from him but we didn't have tv age, we didn't have the social media age normally it's four more years versus change tonight is four more years versus the last four years. and really and i don't know the psychology of that. i think anyone who pretends they understand how the american people are going to process that is making it up the answer your question is, we also have an erase with two candidates, horrors unpopular as these candidates are donald trump comes in with his own substantial baggage and therefore, this race continues to be close, but you know, yogi berra once said about the shadows in yankee stadium. >> he said it gets late, early here and it is early in a way. but it's also late for the president. this race has been basic the very stable for quite awhile. this is his opportunity to dispel some of the concerns about his age, but also to take the attack to trump and it's before the biggest audience that he'll probably have in this is voters are concerned it's almost as if joe biden is actually running against joe biden. >> he wants to make hey, good job i against donald trump, really running against himself in a lot of ways the voters who voted for him, the latest new york times poll, 72% say they're sold to vote for him again, that's not a good number now for an incumbent this election, i mean, maybe no election ever in america again, is about persuasion except in the sense that joe biden has to persuade his own people to leave their homes and come out and vote for him because that is his biggest problem, right? >> godless. >> well, i'm just fascinated to see which donald trump shows up tonight. i've prepped him for press conferences for town halls and he is somebody who is capable of getting through 90 minutes sticking to the issues he's strong on border security, the economy, job growth on shoring jobs, and then there's a world in which he's easily triggered. if joe biden hits him with certain attacks. if jake tapper asks a question, he doesn't like our frames at a certain way. he's a showman who feeds off of the vibe around him. and if he feels like he's being isolated or he's being targeted, he can unleash and we all remember that first debate last time, i think was instrumental in him slowly declining in joe biden surpassing him. so we'll see who shows up well, from my point of view, the one thing we haven't pointed out, we've also never had a president who is an insurrectionist, never had a president who refuses to accept the basic rules of democracy, never had a president who has been charged jan, convicted with this many crimes or any crime. so he's gonna be up there for himself. he's going to be up there defending himself. joe biden is not and this week, i've gotten more and more proud of joe biden. they're gonna be great. grandma's out there who can afford to pay for their insulin because of joe biden there are women out there where they're not going to be able to take care of their bodies. they get pregnant. joe biden is fighting for those folks. and so, uh, joe biden has a purpose up there and then which one it's going to think you're gonna see a joe biden that is deeply committed to the american people you've got to see what you love about joe biden tonight and watch a hate about donald trump. and i would say just quickly on that just go thing that i would say don't underestimate how much joe biden loves this kind of moment. >> this is not a night that joe biden is rolling into a afraid or insecure, or without a sense of what he wants to say, you're saying this is somebody who used to work as somebody who worked for joe biden for eight years, prepped him for debates in the primaries in 2019, prepped him to debate donald trump in 2020. this is something that he loves to do. he has a very case he was referencing earlier the animosity between these two men. he is he's not a fan of donald trump to put it lightly. and i think that that kind of personal intensity is going to help motivate him tonight and his task absolutely is to move the conversation to donald trump. and i think he's going to come out tonight. with an energy i'm just going to say to my tresca john doe talking about bending deal here tonight, right? >> joe biden has the bench still. the one thing if you look at poll after poll after poll, it's immutable that is steel that he cannot bend is his age. joe biden is two old to be president. that's the thing that is fighting against them here. you've got to get up there and proved to everybody that he's not too old, that he's not that he's up for the fight and illicit point about donald trump being on message for 90 minutes. it's not a doctoral dissertation. this is, this is going be two-minute answers, two-minute answers, 200 answers. so he can stay focused on message for two minutes for 152 minutes sections, i think again, hayes a break. donald trump is 78, so it's like you all to be president, but you know what americans are concerned about. it doesn't, at least that's what the polling since the polling says they're not concerned about his vigorous, he shows up as vigorous every poll americans are concerned. well, scott got your turn. scott, look, i think we cannot understate the importance of this moment for one person. and as joe biden, his campaign is teetering on the brink of going away right now, the polling is bad the image is bad. you said they're both unpopular. look at the gallup poll this week, donald trump's popularity is back to where it was back in april of 2020. he's getting more popular biden is getting less popular. democrats are nervous. they know he is losing the reason we're having this debate is because the biden campaign knows it must change the trajectory anything short of a game game-changing moment for biden tonight is a loss for him and a win for donald trump. all trump has to do is show up for 90 minutes and look like a plausible president of the united states. and that is a wind van. i don't think that's the case. you guys love changing the metrics here. first of all, donald trump is going to be in trouble. this is not set up for him there's gonna be no audience. nobody is there to laugh at his jokes on his whole insult comic thing is not going to work. that's going to be weird for him. number two, he's not going to be able to run over people at this time. you've got to be muted donald trump or the socket his mouth, he's never been there before. and then also he's got sap them, pretend he's presidential while he's getting jabbed and jabbed and pope. so i think what you're going to see is a donald trump. you guys think all he has to do with go out there and he has to show people he's not a madman does it show people police adding. >> he has just as much to lose here is joe biden. i'm talking about i agree with you. i get about a race that separated by a couple of points in the six battleground states that are gonna be decisive. so the idea that somehow joe biden's campaign is teetering on why are we adding the debate i don't disagree. excuse me. i don't disagree that the biden campaign needs to change the dynamic, and i think it's smart for them to do this debate early. they want to force the choice. i don't disagree with that. i do disagree with the notion that somehow biden's campaign is teetering on the edge, and donald trump has denied let me just disagree with everybody you're allowed your left this is indisputably of a big night. it's a big night for both of them, but it's a particularly big night for the president and it's an opportunity for him to go out and dispel some of the concerns about, but also to deliver the case against trump and what he needs to do in each and every case is go back and create that comparative create that contrast, and go after trump. yes, on the on the issues of insurrection and his conviction and all that. but more more than that, the issues that touch the lives of the american people. so i think it's a great opportunity for him and we should remember that for years ago, people were asking the same question about biden, but he wasn't behind. it, wasn't by no, no, no. just second. calm down but he came out and he from yesterday, it's easier to be the challenger in the insurgent. the problem here is that for trump is that he is, he's it's an insurgent in a challenger with a record that is a very heavy load, but don't you think that the record that trump he's going to come out and say, please compare my record to job i know i'm not going to say he's not going to say that without rebuttal this notion that he's just going to come out and he's going to perform and recite is two-minute answers. >> there's going be a lot i've ammo come one minute, right there has been i think just a bizarre fiction about what donald trump has been up to over the last few months every every republican close to trump keep saying he is so disciplined have you actually lifts his rallies? >> listen to them, i guess listen to them? this is the problem for trump, okay? he might be muted, wet in terms of the back-and-forth, but he also has to actually deliver something that is more than just his grievances and he has not actually done that maybe he's been training and that's what we will see tonight. but the biggest problem for donald trump is that when he is left to his own device does it reminds people of somebody who really only has one thing on his mind, which is donald trump and how he's been wronged, and how he's been maligned, and all of that. and that is not conducive to an economic. and i said, it's not a conducive to a message about crime or immigration. all those other things we will see. but the trump of when he's on his own, that is usually the problem. i don't know. saturday night and philadelphia is pretty on message. it's pretty good donald trump lost in 2020 because the suburbs, the american suburbs are his kryptonite, the american suburbs turned on him and the american suburbs do not want to hear him say he won the 2020 election, and they do not want to hear him say, defend january 6, and say he will part in the january 6. >> so that's joe biden's opportunity there. if you can get donald trump to talk about that. and donald trump doesn't change his answers because you mentioned philadelphia saturday. those are his answers. they start with a tribute to the january 6 and he said he won the election in 2020 and they did not those people were trying to stop the peaceful transfer of power. the problem for biden is the math is a little so different. if biden can get it back to fight for the suburbs, then we have an election. biden has a problem in that his younger voters, he can't solve gaza tonight. that's a huge open sore with one more quick point. blacks and latinos, especially black and latino men. the president's math has, he has to fill in the foundation of his own base first and then i didn't get back into a fight with donald trump for the suburbs, if he can get into that fight, he has a chance. that's. a lot. that's a lot of women tonight it is a lot of spent but it's part of the spin doubt was targeted towards lackeys. that's why you've got the lowest black unemployment that you've ever had. also, you got a black vice-president of black supreme court justice, one out of five people who are serving that administration or african american, he has made investments in the black community while trump and insulting the black community i think if i may, i think that to underscore just the historic nature of this moment since 2020, you've had 88 felony counts, 34 actual criminal convictions. >> you've had roe overturned, you had january sex. this is a fundamentally different moment in history that donald trump is facing. yet he's beating joe biden. i think joe biden two night has to crystallize and convey the message of why donald trump is unfit. and if he can't, i don't know that there's alyssa. >> if he does not come out tonight and deliver a game-changing moment, the everybody on this place is going to be except for urban me in mad well according to van band you you admire the president's record. >> i actually admire the president's record, but if he spends the whole night extolling his own record and it doesn't take the case to trump. he will lose this debate and he may lose this election. >> fair enough one last problem right now i got to go turn so multi-class erin is going say, i feel bad, i feel bad i breaking in anderson all right. >> but joining us now in new york, republican congressman trump supporter elise stefanik. and times when i very much appreciate your time, i know that you and president trump speak frequently. so what does he told you about tonight's debate? >> well, first of all, i think the american people are going to see a stark contrast. this is just a reminder of joe biden's failed presidency, whether it's the wide open border crisis, whether it's the weak national security and the chaos around the world, or whether it's bidenflation and american families are getting crushed by the rising cost of goods. compare that would president trump's record and his presidency. where you saw an economic boom, you saw wages increasing, you saw peace through strength around the world. you saw energy independence. so this will be a clear contact trust on policies. and i'm probably being atlanta, georgia as one of the top surrogates for president trump i know you are here in atlanta, but when you talk about but stark contrast that you say, we're going to see, i mean, we know advisers to the former president have said he needs to focus on the things you're talking about. congresswoman, the economy, crime, inflation instead of airing his grievances, he's been told to avoid a repeat of the first 2020 debate we've heard that from many. we've heard that he himself has been clear, he wants to avoid that one adviser told rolling stone today and fairly colorful language, don't be a raging. i'll use the word jerk. congresswoman. i'm curious as to whether you think he can make this stark contrast as clearly as you hope he will over a 90 minute period well, absolutely he can in president trump is speaking directly to the american people. he does so every day his message is resonating. that's why you're seeing historic support in swing states and why you're seeing joe biden at a catastrophically low approval rating across the country. and his campaign continues to be feeble and feckless in these swings. stage president trump is winning independence even in my home state of new york, aaron, in the latest poll, president trump is only behind by six points. this isn't a traditionally blue state like new york that joe biden won by over 20 points. so to show that significant swing, president trump's message is resonating and that's what you're going to see tonight. and this will be yet another reminder matter. what joe biden says. people are feeling bidenflation, their reading in the news, or they know communities that have been impacted by the biden border crisis. they're seeing the chaos around the world. see our most precious is ally israel under attack. so i think we'll hear a lot about that tonight's debate go ahead. >> i know when you talk about new york, of course six points, you're right for new york, that's close. of course, when you look at it nationally, that is an electoral chasm. so we'll see what happens in new york and people in the suburbs very closely tonight, i work is moving in our direction. we flipped up those five seats in new york. look at michigan, look at minnesota, look at georgia, look at these states where he's polling better and better stronger than any of the republican nominee, stronger than 2016 stronger than 2020. joe biden is pulling the weakest of any democratic nominee in the past decade, probably further back than that. and that's because joe biden's presidency has been a failure. he is a weak president. the world knows that the american people know that, compare that with the strand one and nice strong the peace through strength under president trump's presidency so let me ask you, because of the comments that you're making and obviously your point of view on the foreign president now, you're former colleague, someone who considered you a friend. back when you were in congress together, adam kinzinger, he endorsed biden yesterday and he told me that he hasn't changed. it is the republican party that has changed congresswoman. in fact, he said because it is not swearing allegiance to any kind of principles or policy anymore, it's all about swearing allegiance to one man who did his best to overthrow a legitimate election and convinced a third of the american people that the election was stolen. so congressmen, what do you say to adam kinzinger, your former colleague and your former friend? all responsibility is to stand up for the american people and tried to make lives better for the american people. joe biden has destroyed economic opportunity. he is destroyed families budget. president trump is working every day to share his vision behalf of the american people. that is my responsibility and that's what i do every day in congress. and those people's support president trump. they see the success of his first term and they see the failure of joe biden's term and will be his only term as president. so that's what will be the clear contrast today. and that's what you're seeing in the polls. and i know cnn is frustrated get to see joe biden's pulls continuing to slide lower and lower. but the american people are smart. they feel the inflation crisis from joe biden. they are reading the news about the border crisis. they know it's a terrion crisis chaos around the world. and they know it's because of joe biden the issue though, of president trump, obviously your views have changed and that is a fact congresswoman for many things you said many areas of policy on which you have vehemently disagreed with the former president. here are a few things that you have said in the past that stood out to me i think she has an insulting to women. >> i disagree with mr. trump's rhetoric towards women. i disagree with his belief that we should have a religious test for immigrants to this country. i don't think that's we are that's not according to our constitutional principles so congresswoman, i'm just trying to give you a chance to that. we can all understand better. i mean, at one point you said in 2015, there's no place for what trump said about muslims in this country. why has your view on trump changed? well, i've seen the positive success and the reality. aaron is, is i was the only elected republican woman from the northeast who voted for president trump. i was smeared by democrats for doing so. and i've been proud to be one of his top allies. i hosted in mice district in my second term in office, he signed the national defense bill. i'm proud to be the first member to endorse it. his reelection. we saw the success and the most successful president in my lifetime in terms of growing the economy promoting american manufacturing, rebuilding the nation's military for me to be able to host him in my district with 10th mountain division soldiers as he reinvested in our nation's military, as he signed into law the largest pay raise for our troops many two provisions that i worked on on the house armed services committee. that's tremendous success. and now we're seeing the failure of joe biden. so i'm proud to be a top surrogate. and you know what more and more people who maybe were hesitant ten years ago, it's about president trump. they are now supporting him today. we welcome them. that's why you're seeing restore support amongst the spain x and african american i can hear a witness election, we're going to see a stark contrast tonight and we will see what we will see tonight. >> i know we will all be watching and congressman stefanik, i appreciate your time. thank you so much. and next to reminder of just how chaotic the first biden-trump debate four years ago was that we have all been referring to a question. will tonight's new rules be enough to event that from happening again this election season, cnn has you covered no matter the question from more about the candidates, two rules in your state to casting your ballot. >> the cnn voter handbook has your answers. visit cnn.com slash vote for your bike riders, get those dollars on it. >> you'd have to kill me to get this jacket off electrifying four stars summer movie scan it was like writers were your two are now playing only theater hi, there. >> i'm an ad noticed how some ads just speak to sad the advertisers place their ads where people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs. that's why they choose by it can make an impression so if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute and measure your connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory, choose wisely, choose, phi this is one of our boxes. this is just filled with some of the things that we'd started gathering for her while it was pregnant. yeah. >> here's a little baby book let's just the outfit. she was going to maybe where home from the hospital? >> all of this is the blank at the she would footprint okay i'm joe biden and i approve this message. one of my favorite supplements is kunal turmeric turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support and cute all has the number one doctor recommended form of turmeric cuno. the brand i trust my name is dana bell phi and my husband and i own the village bakery located in hayden, idaho. >> our mission is to employ people with different abilities tiktok is allowing us to show what acceptance looks like on a day-to-day basis. here are the bakery. this is a community of just complete and utter love it's the people that lift you up when you're down people on tiktok, do that on a daily safae the comfort of a great night sleep. >> the cnn presidential debate tonight at live on cnn and streaming on max our chris wallace tonight has already graciously acknowledged the challenge you faced as a debate moderator. >> he continues to do it again and again, even went on for years ago. of course, that was the debate here is what some of it looked like it would have been much later gesture products later, mr. prime talking about 2 million people, you're not a writer, you have spent the last week cause they want to give good healthcare if i may ask my question, sir i have a moderator of this debate and i would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer. >> go ahead. would you listen who is on your list joe, this don't you, right? gentlemen, i think pack the court we are not going to give chris was flying free of a net this time there are new rules aimed at preventing that kind of thing and the yelling over and people telling each other to shut up so our panels back chris his back also joining us, biden biographer avenatti, nos into this conversation, christo first a chance to respond. >> what was it like in that moment? because as you said, you knew and you've done this so many times, you've been doing this for 45 years. and then in that moment something happened that was unexpected while the interesting thing is that oftentimes a debate becomes simultaneous it was conferences particularly if you've got strict rules, quite frankly, like we've got tonight, two-minute answer. >> one rebuttal, one one-minute rebuttal one of the things i'm concerned about is that they won't engage with each other. so my initial reaction was there engaging. i didn't realize it was going to be engaging like pearls harbor. there was going to be a full-on onslaught we ended up having some four unfortunate production assistant at fox where i was working at the time, count up, there were 145 interruptions by donald trump, 90 minutes, either of the candidate vice president biden at the time were may and, you know, the answer was, i couldn't stop at one point, the director says in my year for the commission on presidential debates, get trump to stop interrupting and i'm thinking, well, if i could i actually i literally thought if there was a button that good portion, a trap door and trump would go down that's the only way i could do it. he was hellbent that that was how he was going to i think he believed i'm going to go in there. i'm going to bulldoze biden. i'm going to intimidate them. and that's what i'm going to win the debate. and there was never a plan b couldn't stop he couldn't stop himself and he couldn't come up with another alternative, which i think what biden is to let him talk, let them get in trouble, and then counterpunch. and that's one of the things that i know that the trump camp is really talking about tonight, that was one of them said to me, it's not the punch that hurts. it's the counterpunch that hurts and biden in that debate, it was like he was back on capitol hill as judiciary chairman because he would say reclaiming my time. can i get those 30 seconds back treating it as if he's got those two minutes to answer and he wants to make the most of those two minutes. so it also repeatedly cut into his answering. donald trump would give his two-minute answer and then joe biden would not have the ability to respond without i'll donald trump cutting in whether it's the green new deal or what have you. and so that's something else to watch for tonight? yes. the trump campaign is advising him, let him speak, let him have that moment to have a moment that could potentially cement and voters mind a question about his age or his ability to do and serve four more years in office. but the reverse is also true that biden has points and lines that he does also want to get out, that he couldn't really get out in that first debate. the last time. so those are the two things to also keep an eye on. >> let's also not forget that trump wasn't just doing this all by himself, right? i mean, biden has shown a willingness to engage and be aggressive in moments like this when he did during the state of the union, when there were protesters on the floor of the house of representatives and you saw him do it in the debate with chris wallace. i mean, you don't wouldn't have come away with that thinking that trump it was a train wreck for trump. if biden hadn't also been there and demonstrated he wasn't being run over by the guy, but instead presenting a potentially more presidential costs. so evan, when we're talking, case, he's talking here about biden. what worked for him in that moment was we could argue that moment where he's like, well, you shut up, man was a moment that made it for him. but he doesn't get a moment like that this time. how does he see it? >> well, in a lot of ways, debating with trump is like what boxer say about fighting a south paw. he's an awkward fighter. he does things that are strange. it's very hard to know how to respond to it. but if you go back and you study the way that joe biden does debates, if you go back 40 years, which of course is what i do. if you go back to 1972, he adapts his technique to the person he is debating. so in that first important, big debate, he was debating a much older senator, people who he was a guy was much loved. caleb boggs and delaware and he said, i'm not going to be too aggressive because as he said, it'll be it'll feel to people like beating up on everybody's favorite uncle. but in 2012, a completely different moment when he was vice president and his debating paul ryan, remember, obama had had a bad first debate and the campaign said you need to go out there and be confident, have some aggression and mary was kind of smiling widely drove some people little crazy to see how confident he was. but that's what they needed. and in fact, for the second obama debate, they told him to take a note from biden and b he a little bit more aggressive. so what you're going to see tonight, i think is an effort to try to say, let me get under trump's skin because when i do that, he behaves badly and adi, we're also this is all happening at an earlier point than ever. it is. that's really important to think about. and i think one of the things i'm so excited about tonight is we're going to get this kind of uninterrupted view of two people who are trying not to look either infirm or unstable. and if you listen to the past hello in firm are unstable but if you look at listened to the other panel describing like one campaign is teetering, one campaign is this people here radically different explanations of how these campaigns are doing. but tonight you're not gonna get any of that. it's not editing something of someone falling down stairs or a gaffe or whatever. it just one long conversation between the two of them in space. and the silence will be deafening when and where there is silence. so i'm really excited to be part of this moment that we are all collectively finally getting to share the facts without having biased by how it's being portrayed or cut up or served up to you by the algorithm. >> one ever makes an important point about the preparation and the advice and how that makes a difference because obama was rusty when he got up there, we were just talking to john fabra this week about how they were kind of cringing watching him say that he agreed with mitt romney on social security and they were screaming though that's not the answer that you're supposed to give. >> and then how different that was in the second debate, it shows that preparation really does matter. obviously, obama is a great speaker. he knows his policy biden has been preparing so intensively heat just loved camp david for the first time. in like a week and he would he hasn't reparation matters more than the fact that he has debated trump before. >> i think they both matter, but for biden him personally preparation means so much the reason his states of the state of union addresses have been so vigorous and powerful. >> it's because he rehearses them 1 million times. if you talk to people inside the white house, he just had as a comfort level after he's rehearsed it so many times that rehearsed outside they birth the lungs. remember, it's never are interacting and playing off of the hecklers, so to speak. >> so evan, evan, how much time i mean, how all in as he ben, when you look at these 60 days of caitlin just referenced and he's been at camp david literally doing pretty much nothing other than debate prep yeah. this is sort of vintage joe biden. i mean, if you talk to people who work with him over the years, he will be preparing for even a small speech and look some of this has to do with the stator. he would go back, you would put the breadth marks and the tick marks for where he was going to take a breath in his speech tonight. of course, there's no speech to be referring to put the same habits really hold and it's worth going back. if you look at the history as we've all talked about, incumbent presence tend to do badly in first debates. the exception to that was bill clinton because he locked himself up in chautauqua in upstate new york for a week, did mock debates over and over again. and that's where they've been. that's really the history they're drawing from to prepare for this one. >> all alright, i'll stay with us the final hour before the debate is beginning in just a few moments. and john king will be with us once again. this time at the magic wall, you'll have the latest on biden and trump's polling going into tonight's to be plus more on the states that are so crucial to both candidates every weekday morning, here are the five things you need to know to start your day gift. the news you need about them for an earnings ball headlined in five minutes or less cnn's five things with kate bolduan, streaming weekdays on cnn.com and mac in response to the trade rumors, we keep praying about, uh, what we talked about little bit now let's write, not it's right. >> we talked about moving. no. thank you. you could use open-door sell your house directly to them. it's easy i guess we're moving my hair has gotten so much thicker ever since taking this. he 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debate tonight at nine live on cnn and streaming on max welcome to debate night. and american is eight vm here in atlanta tonight, cnn presidential debate. now one hour away, two candidates sharing a stage only with each other, not a live audience when many factors making tonight, unlike most other presidential debates and some which make what it's about to happen here. historic. a president debating a former president for the first time ever, two candidates trying to grow their support and a chance tonight to reach tens of millions of people oh, we've got late reporting from inside the biden camp on the message, they hope the president will deliver for cnn's jeff zeleny is in the debate spin room where things are already gearing up. so beyond the debates and i geoff, i understand there's a bit of casting call in the works in the very room you're standing. and what's going on? >> anderson, of course, the debate is the main event, but there is a republican casting call, right here in the spin room. and this is what i mean former president donald trump's campaign has invited about a half dozen republicans to come here after the debate to make their case and defend his performance. and they are the very republican guns who were on his shortlist to be his potential running mate, north dakota governor doug burgum will be on hand as well. ohio senator jd vance florida senator marco rubio as well. those three are largely thought to be his leading contenders. others will be on hand as well as south carolina senator tim scott. will we hear florida congressman byron donalds has been here all day. i talked to him a short time ago. he told me he would be willing to change his residency from florida to avoid a conflicting with donald trump's florida residency. and of course, new york congresswoman elise stefanik, also in atlanta at a watch party. the reason that these potential running mates it's are here is because they have been participating really for many weeks in what has largely been a tryout in the very open public. they've been flying around the country with the former president on his plane. they've been attending events all to see his comfort and familiarity with them, perhaps more than that, to see how they defend his records. so right here here in the spin room, could be the final stages of the casting call for his republican running mate in just 20 days. that person will give a speech in milwaukee at the republican national convention step zeleny, thanks very much backward the panel, but i want to start with john king, who's moved over to the magic wall, john with about an hour to go until the start of the base just levels give us a level set on the current state of the race. >> an hour to the debate, anderson, 18.5 weeks till election day. this is how the last one ended an overwhelming convincing electoral college win for joe biden and a big win in the popular vote by 7 million votes. that's how the last one ended. we are in a very different race tonight. first led me to pull up just where we are from a national polling perspective, forgive me. turning my back, i just want to stretch this out. these are national polls, right? i get the state-by-state in a minute. but if you look at the national polls, no clear leader, we call this because its 49, 47 so that's pretty close, but donald trump ahead of joe biden, and this has been pretty static and pretty consistent. trump in recent days is inches up just a little bit. so the incumbent president and it walks on that stage tonight a little bit behind close though, in the national polls, but that's not how elections are one, presidential elections want. if you do a state-by-state battleground, look right now at the polling i've been doing a lot of traveling. i can tell you anecdotally, it backs up that poli, donald trump, not huge leads, but he's ahead and pennsylvania, he's had a little bit of michigan. he's ahead a little bit in wisconsin he's ahead here in georgia. he's ahead a little bit in arizona and he's ahead a little bit in nevada now, again, some of these poles are two points, some of them are five points. they're all very close, some even within the margin of error. so the statisticians out there are arguing a little bit what i'm saying. but donald trump has momentum in the battleground states where it's one. so if that held up anything close to that held up that's your 2020 map. it would look more like 2016 where maybe donald trump might still lose the popular vote. but those who are states, five of those six, he won against hillary clinton in 2016. nevada went for clinton in 2016, but as leaning trump's way right now. so that is where we are as the candidates get on stage tonight nationally, a tight race in the battlegrounds though it is advantage it's trump. and here's the biggest reason right now. it is simply very difficult. many would argue impossible for an incumbent to win reelection when only 38% of the country, that's a lot of democrats in independence saying that disapprove of your job as president is 38% approval rating for the president right now, anderson, as he walks out of that debate stage in less than an hour, and he's also in the 30s mid to high 30s and some of these battlegrounds states that is an untenable position for an incumbent. i know it seems early, but it's getting late to change that. and he has to change that if he wants to win. yeah, john king. >> thanks very much back to the team here in new york, david, actually, i mean, you think about the last election joe biden now that convincing win, but in a number of states, i mean those battleground states, wisconsin was like 20,040, 5,000 votes across three states. wisconsin arrows out with that's the difference between having trump as the president now or job actually, yes. i mean, the 7 million that biden won by nationally is was irrelevant. it's how you how you get to that 270, right now. he has a hard task because the places where he has to win, wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan, he's behind and all the other states are more difficult because they have larger numbers of minority voters who aren't giving him the same numbers that they gave him before. so he in some ways he has to pull an inside straight in order to get to to 70. and that's that's that is the thing to keep an eye on. and that's only on the existing map as we knew it in the last election. virginia is on the board. minnesota is on the board. the republic i'm looking st. new mexico is on the board. there is a possibility here that this map of states gets larger and joe biden is defending even more territory than we already think. just look at the regions, the sunbelt from nevada, all the way over, across a southern united states to the eastern seaboard. it looks like it is getting away into your zero point. he's got one road. and right now in those northern tier states, donald trump has something going on in pennsylvania. david is the pivotal one. and if he doesn't went pennsylvania, he cannot win the presidency real quickly. >> it's 16 and 20 the trump campaign was behind the entire race. okay. we were never had the pulse out one, not one pole. for us to be ahead for the kid trump campaign to be ahead at this point is really, really, it'd be really scary for good luck partly, you get the benefit that we've had, the stupid as summer of politics every we had court tv all summer long, basically making you guys a martyr. and we didn't talk about you guys notice part i listened, i i think donald trump's behavior and have committed maybe avoiding all those crimes that have been helpful i don't know, but my point is we had court tv all summer. we didn't talk about anything it actually matters and gave you guys a chance to rally. this might be your high watermark weight. do we get a chance to talk about real stuff like for instance, this idea about democracy is a big deal. it's not some abstract thing. you gotta 900 page playbook called project 2025. i hope they ask about they talk about how he's going to replace half of the civil service loyalist. he's going to impound money, taking money from causeway. once these guys are he has a nutty program. he's not have been asked one question about because we have the dumbest summer and politics, this is the reset, but, but, but you're the person that says it correctly van when your check engine light comes on, you'll never thousand bucks. you don't care about any of that stuff democracy is important. >> the akami is important. lots of important. you guys got a big boost because you had a rally around your guy because he thought he was under trouble. there's no more trials. now, we're going to put donald trump on file for his record i agree with you that he got it was incredible but donald trump has gotten a boost out of the indictments. >> he got he got help among his his base through his conviction. i mean, if i were him, i go knock over a gas station that my but the issue he has your rate is with suburban voters with moderate voters. >> and the message that he's delivering, it has consistently been, we'll see what he does tonight. but the message is delivered has consistently been about himself, about retribution. he's really struggled on this question of abortion. he really has not been able to articulate an argument that lands with suburban voters, with women voters. so starting tonight, which i would argue is sort of the starting gun here as we know, more people are going to tune in tuned into any other moment, go any other moment in this campaign. and this is an opportunity for joe biden to reach those voters we're going to ultimately decide this election. and that is the theory of the case for the biden folks, is that people are not paying attention yet. but what he needs to be able to do tonight is answer the question on some of these issues that donald trump has dominated on border in the economy or the number one and two issues for americans across the board donald trump has a mesh message, but joe biden needs to be able to say, i made the most servetus compromise on border security in decades. and donald trump held it up because he wanted to be a campaign issue. can he articulate that? can and that and that fits into the larger theme, which is, i'm fighting for you, donald trump is always fighting for donald. >> i just i think fighting on immigration it's wrong he runs. he says, look, i set this barn on fire for three-and-a-half years in random order. it's not the correct ground he's gonna get the question, scott question is how do i agree with scott to a degree, but i'm not sure immigration is the best issue for him broadly with the electorate and even with his base. base is not exactly thrilled with him on that issue. it's tricky with hispanic voters but honestly, when it comes to joe biden, the moments that i think the democrats are the happiest with him are, for example, the state of the union, when he has a moment and he's gonna need a moment tonight, he is going to need a moment that is not about policy necessarily, but about how he handles that stage. and that was sound, right? perfect notice. it's very performance. >> solidifying the base which is before he even gets to the point of peeling away suburban voters from donald trump. he has got to get his people in line it's almost july. >> and you're out here 111 point. but you're right is you mentioned he has problems with his base on immigration. >> what was interesting about that sienna poll yesterday was actually hispanics thought trump was more, was preferable. the border but, but this idea that he's going to talk to voters who haven't plugged in yet some of that may be true. a lot of these disengage voters aren't going to watch this debate on tv. they're going to watch it through social media. and this thing is going to get sliced and diced all night long. so these moments become very, very big. >> just like ration on almost every issue, donald trump is leading. joe biden on those issues. so that's not just an immigration issue, it's broadly also would say he doesn't have to win the debate on immigration. he doesn't have to win the race on immigration. he has to mitigate some of the damage or she has to differ epsilon message tonight, he has to have a strong rebuttal yes. but he's not going to win the race on the back of the argument about immigration else just want to point that are just as important to the swing voters we're going to go of our viewers, nobody on this stage has any idea about what the questions are going holding myself, you get, you don't get them. anyway, i guess i have one i just wanted to briefly i rewatched both of the 2020 debates and joe biden ran as a centrist eight performance, the centrist democrat, if he is actually trying to appeal to his base tonight, he's losing the suburbs, he's losing the people needs to win over in that you're in lies. be clear. i'm not saying it's a pander to his base. all i'm saying is that the base it has a lack of enthusiasm problem and they want to see a joe biden that they can be excited and happy about voting for and some of that is on the planet, but i'm going to make that happen. also the list of things it's interesting listening to you all because the list of things that are you all are saying joe biden needs to do is a very long alicia things that the former president needs to do is very almost like he has to change the whole gay he's the incumbent president and yes the list of things joe biden has to do tonight is long. it's longer because when you are the incumbent, you have more you're on a more defensive posture than you are if you're the president who was the president 40 years ago, which was the advantage biden had for your job or absent colleague has correct analogy. bending still, i'm not sure. 80-year-old joe biden's gotta that's what this is. part of what's going on. this is not a left-wing period, is not a right-wing period is a turbulent, volatile period, and people out there are hurting it certain because of the things that we are all concerned about. i think you are right. if if he tries to get a laundry list of all these different things, that's not going to be a good debate for providing what biden's got to do is remind people why we liked them in the first place but he actually gives a is a serious fan. yeah. but he takes these issues seriously that he's actually trying to help people not just himself, if he can pull that off and get a moment, like you said, abby and i think we can use this as a reset map moment right now. you are correct, scott, at this thing is in the toilet and starting to swirl, but that is the night before the debate. before the debate job everybody to vote for him because he was, he was but nine democrats. >> they just he convinced me, please. i'm going to unite not you watched the debate from to primaries. i'm talking to turn these questions. that's what he has to do tonight. he has to take these questions. it's not that he comes out with a laundry list. the moderators are going to have a list. yes, some sense even though no one knows what the questions are. what they're going to hit on there certainly going to hit on immigration. there's certainly going to hit on abortion. they're going to hit out of the economies of goods? the question is, how do you take those questions? the men put trump on the defendant moment you all are all talking about that he needs tonight that i also agree that he needs, by the way, this may be the last chance he gets to have it. i'm not convinced they're going to debate again. they may never meet each other there are each other ever again. it's late june. i know the election is still far away but we made the history of tonight. and why you have to watch this tonight is this may be retired three minutes fast, chance for joe biden to do something dramatic enough to get out of the toilet that you just mentioned, 38% approval, losing in the swing states, he's got one chance, one, and the moment that donald trump says something that is so off putting and unpalatable to swing voters that he takes his campaign for the rest of them, i think are high for both of them. >> real possibility for all of this being said, trump is the wildcard here. he is the one who tends to have a hard time controlling himself and the number one task for joe biden is going to be two in small ways, not spend all his time to do that, but provoke trump into being himself? yes. on that stage? not being the guy who were heard for weeks if the real joe biden comes through, i think it's going to be great. >> and if the real donald trump comes through, i think it's going to be great for joe biden. >> but i think this point is so important, but what trump needs to do is essentially not be himself for 90 minutes, play somebody that he is not for 90 minutes. do we think he's capable of y only three minutes at a time? i think you had to break it down into three to five minutes, just about 45 minutes. >> so go to the main event. we have new reporting on what the biden camp hopes to accomplish. knidos california governor gavin newsom, the biden surrogate, joins us as are cnn debate night rolls on your right july 7 dr. sanjay gupta reports on hold for the devastating effects of all timers, reversing something that seems so preordained. >> it sounds extraordinary. >> dr. sanjay gupta reports the last alzheimer's patient, july 7th at eight on cnn and the furniture business, things move fast ziprecruiter helps us hire qualified candidates who keep up. we needed a project manager yesterday, we posted a job and ziprecruiter and had our guy hi on-site and five days, he was qualified and everyone zip recruiter finds the best candidates for all our jobs. they helped us build a dream team. then he did it fast. does that too fast where you 44 out of five employers who post on ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day, try for 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the biden team. cnn's mj lee has that joins us now. so i understand president biden's team believes tonight is a opportunity for him to try to dispel concerns over his age yeah. >> anderson, the biden campaign know is that they have a really stubborn problem to fix and that is a too many americans are tuned out of the election to many voters including persuadable voters who could really be key and deciding this election are simply not paying attention to the news and they know that that means that a lot of people, the impression that they have biden right now are coming from and being shaped by these 51015 second clips that you see on youtube or social media tiktok. and that a lot of the time these clips can be unflattering, particularly as we've seen, the former president donald trump and his allies, tried to paint the president as feeble and senile and they believe that tonight is going to be one of their best opportunities yet to try to shatter a some of those impressions they want to reach voters who wouldn't typically tune into a full speech or an event, but feature during the president and they believe that many americans are going to want to tune in to most, if not all, of the 90 minutes of the debate tonight. and the hope for the biden campaign is that at the end of the night many voters will have seen what aides and this is a vigorous 81-year-old man who was fully capable of carrying out the intense duty he's that come with the presidency and anderson, we have reporting all week on what has been going on at camp david on the debate preparations. they have been refining their message finding their vision, going through the mock debates and really preparing for every version of donald trump that could come to the debate stage tonight. but those preparations are all over and it is now entirely on president biden and president biden alone to try to execute on everything that he and his team have been working on over the past week mj lee. thank you, aaron, back to you all right. >> anderson and with me now as the california governor and biden supporter, gavin newsom and governor newsom, i appreciate your time so you came here to atlanta to support the president. i want to start just with the protocol here because there's been this emerging reporting about something that may not seem important, but isn't it? let's the handshake. it's when they both walk out and do you shake or do you not shake? and apparently, he's considering not shaking trump and i'm also consider all right. is it a mistake if they don't like people shaking hands? i like civility where the end of the day we all want to be loved, we all need to be loved. we want to be protected, connected, respected. there's humanity here. there's also respect. president united states, i think trump's should shake biden's him and biden should. i'd like to look if we're getting into this nitty-gritty, we've run out of punditry, pre-debate. >> well, i mean, but we know the optics matter and they matter. governor is because so many people are watching just for what mj lee saying they want to see that the present the united states is a sound mine that he isn't evil, that he i also want to look at. you want someone who's also confident locks in president biden is confident. he's going to record and he's got a vision for the future. so walking and confidently shaking the hand, i think our kids are watching as well. i'd like to i prefer a world like that. that's personal, that's not me talking about the kid. okay. but you have spent time with them, you and i were just talking. i was with him in wisconsin, but weeks ago. but you are within last week and at that rally where that video went viral, where mama kinda took his arm and took him off the stage. so you were there. >> so weaponization of these clips, it was ridiculous. that's for hours and hours on the photo line with president obama. he had just found back from the gi he 70 had a stopover barely slept no one no one no one could have kept that schedule. you did a wonderful job in private with all the donors, with surrogates, did an amazing job on stage. as i said, it was four feet away. that was ridiculous and it goes to the weaponization of the moment and the situational nature, politics at this moment. but get it those things matter. we've got to confront those. we've got to be aggressive in that response. tonight's that opportunity. all right. so immigration most certainly will be a topic question. all right. we've just learned that border crossings are down since 40% down 40% there's still about 2000 a day earlier this month that were eight to gq nationals, as you know, who were arrested, they were arrested as they had gotten as far or as la philadelphia and new york and they were arrested because the fbi had concern about an imminent attack in at least one of those cities right? how does the president defend that but i'm the governor, the larger, larger border state america, which has the largest land port in the western hemisphere, is not an issue that intellectually i'm curious about. >> it's one when we live every single day, i put the national guard down at the border. i've been an advocate for the bipartisan border deal that president biden negotiated. that was advanced, that included by the way, interestingly, $650 million, the border wall, 4,300 asylum officers, 1,500 border patrol members, as well as 10,000 new dependent detention. but and trump killed and his surrogates killed it speaker johnson killed it. they had the opportunity to address it. so biden did what he needed to do with the io and it's already proven to create results, but we need something more than just border reform. we need comprehensive immigration reform, right? >> so, but, but on this front, i mean, i just add these, these tajik nationals again. yeah. and the fbi hi, it actually wanted to monitor them and figure out what their networks were. they weren't able to do that because they were so worried that there was an imminent attack. that's at least what they're what they're telling us, but it goes to a broader issue. the board, it's been politicized. the de, the president got into office, he put out a comprehensive border strategy. the republicans wanted the illegal border crossings exactly exactly what 7 million people, that's right. is that not his failure to i think it's the failure of congress to work with the present united states. the president put out a plan and responsibility executive to put out a plan, and they refuse to negotiate. they fuse to take action. and two of the them, biggest cowards. where people like lindsey graham, people like marco rubio were part of the gang of eight in 2013. other kurds, there conviction to work with democrats, to address this issue. the president had states was willing to do that. they said no, any still stuck with it had a bipartisan deal that he negotiated that addressed a lot of their concerns. he moved farther than most and trump refused to do it because he wants it to be an issue tonight. he wants it to be an issue over the next many nights through this campaign for political benefit period, full stop. >> but those 7 million people, that's right. president biden, i understand what you're saying about the bill and the bill would have done some bad. i hear you. but then the buck stops with him and he could have done something much sooner. he could see you. he didn't and people came over. we don't know exactly when those two gq nationals came over. we don't know who else came over. i mean, do you have a fear? about some of those people among those seventh say i'm a border state governor. i've put close to 400 national guard down at the border joe address, counter drug issues, de address the issue of fentanyl human trafficking and smuggling at the border. i take that very seriously. we've put migrant facilities together that should be the job of the federal government to support those efforts. republicans in congress refused to support those efforts and continue to play politics. of course, we're all at the end of the day, society becomes how we behave. we are behaviors, democrats, republicans, members of congress, past and current. the last comprehensive immigration reform with someone familiar to californians. and that was ronald reagan in 1986. i would like the debit republican party be more like reagan a little less like trump. >> so obviously you work with biden, you're supporting them. your here as a surrogates night. you also worked with trump and you got along with him yeah. and you have both talked about it i'll play for everyone we have a. >> good relationship we're obviously from different sides of the spectrum we have a very good relationship. i used to get along ghraieb with amino when i was president, he had alone got along really good. gavin where you've got along with gavin newsom. i did. i really did. he was always very nice to me, said the greatest things every single direct request that he was capable of meeting. he has met. i can only speak for myself, but i have to be complimentary. otherwise that would be simply lying to you. music credit. he would played no politics are in covid with california now by none whatsoever it was a normal work with him again. well, we'll see is calling me new-scum. >> he's really elevated, i think by seventh grade friend called me new scam that's the elevation of the material dirty of donald trump as he's gotten older. but look, i'll work with anyone that wants to work to advance the cause of this country. my state in the world we're trying to build that goes back to the stability of shaking someone's and i'm just not that person open had not closed fist. we vehemently disagree with one another. i live in the most and trump's state and america, we were involved in 122 lawsuits against the trump administration. but when it came to covid, when it came to wildfires and floods, she delivered well, he delivered because we had to go a long way to kiss the proverbial ring. that's the difference between this guy and that's what you're seeing. it's a bit of a kleptocracy of sorts that's what he's running right now. look at the folks that are doing these fundraisers for it's all about what they can carve out to get in return for themselves, trump es is i know it's a talking point for us all about himself. everybody knows that, including his supporters but he's carving out those with means including making deals for billion dollars on oil and gas. and i'll take care of you regulations in public. this is corruption of the highest order, and we will always call that out at the same time. i'll work with anyone that will work with us. all right. i'll governor newsom, i appreciate your time. thank you very much. would it be with you and next, we're just now learning more about the whereabouts of the woman who is not in this picture the former first lady, melania trump where she immediately following the debate, get the context and analysis. you won't find it anywhere else. join anderson cooper, erin burnett, and the best political team in the business for debate night in america, posted paid analysis live white after the debate cnn. white writers, we were outcasts. but now we belong to be kowert. his are force of nature austin butler isn't sectional and tom hardy the so-called loss of for us earn it down bike writers were your daughter university of maryland global campus is a school for real life, one that values as successes you've already achieved up to 90 undergraduate credits for relevant experience and get the support you need from your first day to graduation day and beyond. what will your next success p, americans are struggling and biden's economy but biden's ignoring our problems our economies he keeps denying reality. is it dishonesty or dementia? utility bills are going up, electricity costs have risen 25% under biden and food prices are skyrocketing. biden's week. he's failed and 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critical this moment is for the campaign the campaign itself was really cagey about answering questions about whether or not she would be here. but as we saw wind, donald trump's plane landed here from florida. he got out with the playing with a slew of different advisors, but no melania trump. now, there are some reasons why this isn't that surprising. just remember since he launched his presidential campaign two years ago she's attended only one actual campaign public event and that was the launching of his third presidential bid at her mar-a-lago home. while his advisers and aides insists that she is supportive of him, of his political ambitions, that she is just more focused on raising baer and this of course has raised questions as to why she's not out there on the camp kane trail, particularly when you see first lady jill biden, who has become an act of surrogate for her husband out there today. she was even talking to donors, visiting a campaign headquarters. so very different vibe, if you will, from both of these two women as we head into this campaign season kristen holmes, thanks very much. want to go to michigan to the battle voters are going to be watching and reacting to the debate. what are you hearing? laurie it's so, critical right now. >> i am at mecole community college in warren, michigan, right outside of detroit. this is a critical district of critical county. remember, michigan more broadly went to trump in 2016. it was flipped by biden 2020. but this particular accounting, when overwhelmingly for trump, later on. and so now this is what you're talking me about. a group of people here who are undecided is pretty evenly split. those were leaning towards biden, those leading towards trump, but largely undecided about what they're going to do. this is the audience of these two candidates want to be speaking to those could be persuaded, those who could they to change their minds. it's all right here and they're going to have the opportunity to tell you how they're feeling by at the end of the debate, we're going to be asking them what they thought throughout the debate. we're going to capture on this device, i'm holding in my hand each of them has it in their hands as well when they have an agreement with something that's being said, they're going to dial it to the right if they disagree to the left it'll be trapped over the course of the debate and wouldn't have line graphing to show you per identification of the party they're leaning towards, how they're actually seeing these issues this is so critical, this is so consequential. i've had chance to talk a number of them and it runs the gamut what they are concerned about, anything from immigration to the age of the candidates for veterans. what's happening in foreign policy? plessy, the deficit, medicaid, medicare, retirees. it really runs the spectrum. this is the kind of room that these two candidates want to speak to. let see if it resonates. >> all right, we'll come back to you after the baby. laura. thanks so much. earn back to you. >> all, right anderson and look, it's pretty fascinating when you think about it. what's that group finding those undecided voters? there are more of them, maybe then many people believe, well, the general term mvd at this flight or the general thought is that it's six 6% of the voters in six states who are going the decide this election that 94% of voters aren't. we are already settled. yeah. and 44 states are already settled. and that it's only six swing states three and the nor three in the south and southwest, and about 6% and they're called the deciders. i mean, they've been got a name at this point and interestingly enough, there was a poll and the new york times that indicated on the issue of democracy at this point, they trust trump more than biden. now, i think democracy means different things to different people there. i think a lot of it is, how's the country running? right track, wrong track, but it is a very small sliver of people. maybe instead of all these big national debates and all these national labs, maybe we should just get those couple of million people in a room and have them decided to all for us and be done with it. >> it is amazing that lottie, that democracy is something that can also be flipped that it is equally important to some trump voters as biden voters and they see it the opposite way. i mean, one thing that happened during covid is because there were changes to some election laws to accommodate the pandemic people. they're people who thought that went too far and criticize that as in terms of election integrity, i do want to say this is such a great state to be in, because in michigan you have like these amazing students, right and university spaces, you also have like a robust labor union kind of community. you have that suburban mom community that everyone's talking about you, it's also has rural elements it's really like a great state and a key one. and the so-called blue wall that at one point went to trump and then biden got it back. and these are all constituencies that both of these candidates are aiming their message and just quickly, i gotta say mecole county 1980, that's where ronald reagan went in a very democratic state and he went after the reagan democrats. these were blue collar the people on the assembly lines and they flipped from the democrats and jimmy carter to ronald reagan. and that was a real sign that reagan was going to win the election by alliance law, voters in michigan, that same group of people. i mean, if you walk, i in 2016, i went to a union halls with bernie sanders and donald trump and they seem to love both of those people and none of them really were cotton. onto hillary clinton in either one of those scenarios. and i think you're absolutely right about how it kind of gives us all of these little microcosms here. and i do wonder what is, i think, i think one of the things that is a big question here when you ask voters to rank their priorities, the economy is always at the top. but then you're also seeing all of these people who have continued to vote for nikki haley in the republican primaries, even after she dropped out of the race. and i just keep coming back to wondering whether is it the economy for those voters? is that really? why they were doing that? and how are they balancing the displeasure that they clearly, these people are republicans. they've been many of them have been voting republican their whole life, switching to vote for a democrat would be a huge, huge ask but that said there clearly not happy with they're not now presumptive nominee in donald trump. and which one of those things is going to win out, i think is maybe end up being the story of the election. well, and how donald trump makes an appeal to those voters. a lot of the mickey haley voters, a lot also women voters. that's always been the question of how he appeals to suburban women and what that looks like. and you here the voters and their issues, but also a lot of this is the visuals and what that looks like. and one thing that was in the report before laura was speaking with those voters from kristen holmes and that we all noticed as soon as donald trump got off of his plane earlier, was that he was alone and he had staff with him, but he was not accompanied by the former first lady, melania trump. that's pretty striking. the fact that she is not present at this debate tonight based on what we've known so far, we've been texting officials about this that she's not here. she was at all of the debates before and yes, there is no audience here, but there is still a lot of trump allies and surrogates who will be in the room right off of the stage where each candidate has their respective rooms after access hollywood and that tape came out and rocked the 2016 campaign just days later on that sunday, melania trump came with donald trump to the debate and walked in wearing all hot pink and it was kinda this moment wherever when she was standing by her husband and coming in with him, and she always chooses moments like this to send a message, whether it's a state of the union, are big moments for him it is kind of interesting that she is not here tonight. we will see dr. jill biden. we do expect on stage at the end of the debate to greet president biden. what do you think about melania's lack of presence here? >> i don't think it matters much. i mean, in the sense i think there are certain things that are baked into the price of the of the stock on the market. i think people understand this to be an odd relationship that we just had. donald trump on trial and convicted for paying hush money to a porn star at a time when melania had just had their baby barron. so i'm not sure that canoe bill bliss on the debate he'd stage is something that was going to sell very well at this point anyway, i, you know, i just don't think it matters. >> i think it is. people don't even expect it it's not what i want to write down. the word can reveal i was very lucky frequent part of my vocab but i guess that that's that's something that's really on my mind is how much has changed over and over. we keep talking about how much is the same for these candidates. but a lot has happened since they were onstage together, whether it be covid, the metoo movement with the incredible burst of labor, energy that's happened over the last two years obviously, the war in gaza and the political energy that's churned up on the progressive side. so there's a lot of, even though it's the same two guys were different and there's a lot of dynamics that have also january 6 donald trump and joe biden have not shared the debate stage, and that's another thing to watch for tonight, is what donald trump prepared, to say about that, but also president biden himself with how he to say this is an issue that president biden obviously cares about so much. he's delivered speeches on the anniversary of january 6 and come out and talk about that. one searing zij on the anniversary of it, he said that trump had a knife, it democracies throat. i mean, it's a speech that we'd never seen in presidential history before. someone going after their predecessor. so directly, and this will be the first time for joe biden to confront donald trump about it on stage. and that's a moment to certainly watch to see how donald trump defends himself on it, but also how president biden talks about it. and also, cassie, i'm sure they both have spent time thinking about if they are presented with a question on pardons a-ha on both sides. yeah. i mean right. one has to expect if you are trump, you'll be asked about hunter biden, and if you're biden, you're asked about trump indeed. and it is one of those things that kind of puts on stark display minute look, i think for the president, but sitting president this is something that, i mean they have been very definitive about saying we're not going to do this. biden has been definitive. i mean, he he was definitive about a commutation i wonder if i think are probably a lot of parents out there look at that and say, if you have the power to do that, how could you how could you not so i think that the dynamics there are very layered. i think the trump question is also one that, pulls, i think a wider pulls the country into focus in that we are in, i think that big picture. we maybe have not just said this as directly as we should. we are incredibly divided as a country more than we probably have been in. i mean, you have to go back to the 1960s probably to find a moment that is as tense as this one, even though this race has sort of been at this status quo, the volatility that is underneath the surface is just so intense. and this question of pardons. and what may or may not happen to donald trump is a question about the country and are divisions and our potential mitchell unity. that is a very, very complicated thing to weigh and all that on display tonight. and just a quick note, we do have some video just in of the presidential motorcade arriving year at cnn headquarters with less than 15 minutes to go until the debate begins. we will all be right back with some final thoughts july 4 cnn concert with performances by keith urban, ashanti, maybe wrexham the killers, and many more go for it in america. >> thursday, july before dead seven eastern on cnn hcm is a serious heart condition affecting as many as one and 200 people like me. >> and me, i was still short of breath and my beta-blocker. >> so i talked to my cardiologist and asked about treatment advances in hcm that talk made a real difference. >> it gave me new hope talk to your cardiologist today visit atm real talk.com to learn more hi there. i'm an ad ever noticed how some ads just speak to sad the advertisers place their ads where people like you actually are streaming your favorite programs that's why they choose vi. it can make an impression so if you want the latest ai powered buying tools to execute and measure your connected tv campaigns on premium streaming inventory, choose wisely choose, phi there we go there's so much. >> i can't wait to watch what the daily show news team is barely well, i as sweat. every new scandal just cancels all a different scandal until you become president. it's an ancient tactic called politics. i don't know, just pick one. >> not all elections are created the equal some are much worse than others. >> the daily show, week nights on comedy central, next de, on paramount plus. sail. through the heart of historic cities, an unforgettable scenery with faking unpack once, and get closer two iconic landmarks. loca life and cultural treasures because when you experienced europe on a viking long ship he will spend less time getting there and more time being that viking deal dash.com right now and see how much you can save the cnn presidential debate. >> next live on cnn and streaming on max we are just over ten minutes away from the start of the first presidential debate of 2024, the earliest presidential debate ever. >> and though the candidates may be the same as four years ago, their roles and combat in challenger are reverse back to the team here, van, even though, both these men have debated before you say, we're going to learn something new about them tonight. what well, we will finally understand something we've been batting back-and-forth with biden. the question is, we got to learn how much of his debating skills declined. maybe they haven't declined at all. we are assuming that they yeah. so that's gonna be important. we're going to learn about that with trump. we're going to learn how much has maturity as a debater improved we've seen him do crazy stuff is debater. we've seen him do somewhat smarter, but we're not the only people that care about this i just wanna point that out. the whole world is washington night. it's not just about america. you got soldiers on the front line in ukraine who are listening on radios right now, trying to figure out are they going to have a country after this election? but you have, you have people on an island nations with the waters rising, wondering if climate policy is going to be thrown in, the garbage can in this country? it's very important moment coming up here. and i think that it's not just these individual points. its are these who are these men who have they become over the past four years? that's going to be rebuilt. and what are they going to do? yeah. in the white house if they are there for another four years, i mean, i think particularly for trump there are a lot of unanswered questions about how he might govern a second time around. what is he going to do on abortion? what is he going to do when it comes to the federal government? what is he going to do on health care on the border the broad strokes, i think he's operated in the broad strokes at his rallies and then very friendly interviews that he has done. but this is the moment when we need to get down to brass tacks about what it actually is. and he cannot just be on all sides of the abortion issue, for example, the american people are going to need answer, but i don't think i don't think americans are looking for a policy debate. you're not gonna get it with these very brief answers. this is formative. how did they look? can they, can they articulate an answer quickly and to singly and wrap it up in the two minutes they have. that's what people are going to watch. they look like they're on their game, or do they have energy that's that that is true to, that is it's going to matter to people that is uproot, true to a point, dave, and certainly for the president, it's very important but it's not just how he says what he says. it's what he says and can he these issues that you're talking about, can he land a punches on trump and not allow trump to turn this into a referendum on biden, that that to me is very key about how this goes. >> i'm struck by the history torque moment that we're in and the whole world is watching this simul cast internationally , where you have a man who played a role in inciting an insurrection, denied the election results has now been criminally convicted as the first fell in running for president. 18 weeks from now, we may wake up to it being president elect donald trump. that's where we're at. and joe biden has made his message. it is a about preserving what america is an american democracy. yet he is underperforming tonight is the night he has to show up. the stakes are so high. and if he doesn't, there needs to be a real conversation about what does it say about what does it say about the biden administration? you'll critical that laundry list of horribles. yet that's donald trump's ahead that's my point. i think it's actually a little bit beyond on what you said. yes. those things are true about donald trump that you laid out, but also joe biden ran on unity, national unity and he said he ran because of charlottesville. and when i think about what you said about are divisions and what kind of a country are we going to have? i think a lot of people are asking themselves tonight, what kind of country do we have today? you look at the divisions in this country right now. we're having charlottesville on steroids every day in this country we've got men and women who are going different directions. we've got college and non-college go in different directions, working class and white-collar go in different directions. rural and urban go in different directions v. next, president maybe decided tonight on the cnn stage, and they have a mission two unify this country. biden ran on it any is not done. so are you're saying you're saying it's gonna be hard to it's hard to imagine that if people's concern is divisions in this country, that they're going to say we need donald trump back. >> that's a really biden has achieved his mission on this segall, why he right? yes, i think that for example, he has worked with republicans in congress to do some really important thing infrastructure. he has, he has tried to represent the whole country. i just look trump has some strengths going into this debate. i think it'll be really interesting if he argues that i'm the guy who can unify this country is never show 30, 38% of america doesn't believe it, right? i mean, they had merrick think he's doing his job right. according to your time santa poll, but also the notion that we would blame joe biden for putting forward a message about unity work king across the aisle to get significant bipartisan legislation done, including on infrastructure, including on guns, and then suggests that the solution here is to abandon the notion of unity and to say no. in fact, we're gonna go back to donald trump, who is all about division, who stokes the worst of white supremacy in this country? so literally stood on the debate stage four years ago, let's see if we see another moment like nine white supremacy stood on the debase, stage at the newspaper, but we would not condemn, would not condemn white supremacists. the notion that going back to that is a further one thing, identify the entity that defies the lack of division. i want more unity. i think you know that on the immigration in particular, which is a sore point, now, there was a moment to bring people together and it was trump that stood in the door. but biden reached out. we gave away everything we wanted on immigration to try to get a deal and it was tropic said i'd rather leave the border on fire then solve the problem. so i just don't i don't think that they're going to be the unifier and chief to took to quantify this underscores why six in ten americans didn't want this rematch that we're watching right now, that you may like some of what joe biden's accomplished, but you think he laughed, lacks the leadership credentials. you don't have the confidence going forward. and donald trump, i hear every day from people who can't stand this character. they don't think he's a good guy, but they felt like life was better under him both need to show up to date and they need to make themselves appear as though they can be the president and they can make things marginally better than people feel they are today. these are very familiar men and to the men and women watching around the country. but first impressions matter. back to vance point, who frames this early on they're going to argue over 90 minutes about the border, about the cost of living, about the world and ukraine about character, about personal, about democracy, about jerry six, they're going to have all those fights, but coming out of the box, i think who wins the last 80 minutes? we'll have a lot to say about who wins the first ten minutes by framing what is this about why are and who doesn't. this is so important because people know what donald trump's messages, his messages, the world's out of control. biden's not in command. i'm strong. he's weak. elect me. that's essentially his message. it hasn't been as clear what the biden message is. it's coming into focus now, i'm advocating, i advocate for people. i'm fighting for people. i'm fighting for your future. is consumed by his past and fighting for himself for vengeance and retribution. how's that going to help you? but he needs to really, really bring it to night so that when people leave after those 90 minutes, they say, i get it, i get what the argument is and i'm moved by that. aren't the comparative that people are making? no. and the nostalgia is some have called it for trump, i think comes down to a simple thing for a lot of voters who aren't political junkies. and that is i kinda like what the country was before covid, if we hadn't had covid that would've been fine. it's over now. and i don't like what biden is doing. i just like to go back to where i was right before covid happened, i had money in my pocket. i could buy a house, i could buy a car and go into the grocery store, did not give me anxiety and you know, who would the president was? it was donald trump and i think there are a lot of voters who were just thinking, we had a momentary blip in the world. that's over and we gotta get back to where we were when we didn't have daily anxiety. >> you talk about the united states of amnesia. if you're talking about we didn't have daily anxiety the hallmark of a president, but let's say listens chaos economic paintings, economic thing that you're talking about is the challenge. it is a challenge. and i do think when people are going into grocery stores and they're scared to look at the numbers going up and having takes up out the basket and take it back and run that children, those things are points of pain. the problem is donald trump's from poses would make all that dramatically worse. i mean, what you're talking about, a bunch of the communist came out and said, you would have inflation with a rocket on the back of it if donald trump got back in there. and so that's a tougher argument to make. but the idea that you're going to be able to go back in time and have this kind of imaginary wonderful moment where country with united and everything was great great. that never happened. that's mythology, that's united states of amnesia. and there, but i think davis said, you know what? i think the week we can't paint with too broad of a brush here. one of the reasons why i think donald trump has always struggled with suburban women, in particular, is because of that anxiety is because they do not believe that he is a uniter. they woke up every morning and wanted to turn the tv off in front of their children. he is what is he going to do about that tonight, i think is one of the huge questions that that face him and yes, broadly, maybe people are not dissatisfied with where the economy is. but for trump, that trouble group it's a problem for them that his temper problem for them, that that he himself is the source of the anxiety, putting aside, i want to follow up on that point because it's a really critical point. but yet, yet some of those same suburban women are unhappy with biden's leadership. a lot of them are republicans who voted for biden in 2020 because of covid, because of trump's chaos, because of all that, it's much harder for republican votes or reelect a democratic president. so their dna is republican and abby is dead, right? they don't want the chaos back, but some of them become transactional like trump he'll close the border. they'll cut my taxes. i'll block all that stuff out. i think the challenge for the president's and i for both of them really the country's drifting. people are still dealing with covid. you might think you're not dealing with covid. everybody does tables dealing with covid. those of us with kids, understand what it's like to deal with the covid hangover, then the cost of living thing came in. the american people don't feel there's a north star. where are we going? there's nobody say it's hard, it's tough. we're going to make some mistakes along the way, but that's where we're going. that's just gone in america right now. if one of them can least give a spark of them b and it's hard for them because they both are not the most articulate man in the world. i don't know how that's gonna play out tonight. >> i want to thank everybody here on the panel. the preliminaries are over main event is here. we'll be back with complete coverage and analysis later tonight. and with that, let's turn things over to cnn's jake tapper, and also seen it's dana bash for this first presidential debate of 2024 campaign

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